Analysis of the Najdi Dawah and Its Historical Context

Bro Hajji | Rulers, Rebellion & the Najdi Dawah | Blood Brothers #46

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In this episode of the Blood Brothers podcast, host Dilly Hussain engages with guest Bro Hajji in a wide-ranging discussion focusing on the Najdi Dawah, its historical roots, and the contentious issues surrounding rulers and rebellion within the Islamic tradition. Examining the teachings of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, the conversation delves into the historical alliances with political powers and the implications for contemporary dawah movements. Bro Hajji discusses his personal experiences at Speakers' Corner in London, reflecting on how these topics manifest in modern debates, and shares his insights into the nuanced interpretations of Islamic governance and societal roles. These discussions are framed in both historical and modern contexts, bringing to light the complexities and debates that shape contemporary Islamic thought.

Highlights

Bro Hajji shares his perspective as the 'cryptonite' against those he deems hypocritical bootlickers, stirring up quite the conversation! 🦸‍♂️
The historical analysis of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab's alliances with tribal leaders stirs debate over intentions and impacts. 🔍
Speakers' Corner stories reveal the passionate exchanges and ideological clashes that keep audiences engaged and informed 📢.
Discussions around the justification of rebellion within Islamic teachings provide a deep dive into historical and modern perspectives 🌐.
The episode boldly tackles the issues of tyranny, with references to major historical events and figures – it’s both an educational and thrilling rollercoaster! 🎢

Key Takeaways

Bro Hajji spills the beans on the complex history of the Najdi Dawah, revealing a cocktail of theology and politics 🍹.
The discussion dives into the spicy topic of obedience to rulers – when to obey and when to rebel 🌶️.
Bro Hajji shares his journey in navigating the heated debates at Speakers' Corner, offering tips and tales from the frontline of ideological exchanges 🎤.
The podcast tackles the controversial legacy of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, questioning his methods and motives 🤔.
Dilly and Bro Hajji discuss the modern-day implications of historical alliances and conflicts, shedding light on the evolution of Islamic political thought 📜.

Overview

In a spirited episode of Blood Brothers, Dilly Hussain hosts Bro Hajji to dissect the controversial Najdi Dawah movement. This conversation threads through not only centuries of Islamic jurisprudential debates but also the modern-day arena of Speakers' Corner. Bro Hajji, described with colorful metaphors, presents himself as a bold challenger to established narratives.

Within the exchange, the duo delves into the figure of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, a towering yet polarizing figure in Islamic history. They explore his actions, alliances, and the resulting movements, assessing the complex mesh of theology and power. The discussion is framed by broader questions about obedience to rulers and the parameters of rebellion, magnifying the relevance of these themes in today's world.

Contemporary dawah movements are scrutinized through the historical lens, questioning how past actions influence current ideologies. Bro Hajji candidly narrates his experiences, offering a ground-level view of ideological combat and bridging past and present. This episode promises to fuel debates, challenge perceptions, and engage those interested in the potent mix of religion and politics.

Chapters

00:00 - 00:30: Introduction and Guest Introduction The introduction features a musical theme, setting the tone for the 'Blood Brothers' podcast, which is a production by 'Five Pillars'. The host, Dilly Hussain, extends a warm welcome to all listeners, including brothers, sisters, friends, and FES (Friends of the show). Dilly introduces himself as the host and begins to introduce the guest for the episode.
00:30 - 01:00: Guest's Description and Metaphorical Titles The chapter discusses the multifaceted description and metaphorical titles given to an individual who is an emerging figure. He is metaphorically referred to as the 'Slayer of those who curse the Beloved Companions' and 'the kryptonite of those siding with tyrants.' Despite various perspectives, the speaker knows him personally as 'broi' and hints at a deeper introduction that was intended but remains unfinished.
01:00 - 01:30: Podcast Expectations and In-depth Discussion This chapter addresses the long-anticipated nature of the podcast and the expectations of in-depth discussions with particular guests. The speaker acknowledges that not every guest will lead to such detailed conversations but expresses a confident expectation for a longer, fulfilling dialogue with certain guests. A sentiment of assurance and expectations is conveyed, hinting at a dynamic interaction that aims not to disappoint.
01:30 - 02:00: Guests' YouTube Journey and Motivations The chapter explores the journey and motivations of guests on their YouTube channel. The main focus of their channel is to educate viewers, particularly addressing the hypocrisies of those who do not have the best interest of the Muslim majority at heart. Their content can be sectarian, partisan, and political. Despite considering themselves a basic content creator, the guest emphasizes their role in educating others.
02:00 - 02:30: Speakers Corner and Initial Experiences The chapter titled 'Speakers Corner and Initial Experiences' details an individual's journey to Speakers Corner, a famous public speaking area. It highlights that the person started engaging with the community there around 2018, making their debut appearance complete with a nice beard and shades. The chapter explores the motivation behind visiting Speakers Corner and how the individual initially got involved in this vibrant public arena.
02:30 - 03:00: Evolving YouTube Channel and Impact The chapter discusses the evolution and impact of a YouTube channel.
03:00 - 03:30: Guest's Personal Story and Introduction to Debates The chapter begins with the narrator sharing a personal anecdote about learning with a graduate from Medina and how this experience laid the groundwork for their interests in debates and discussions. The narrator continues to recount how many brothers from Birmingham frequently visited Speakers Corner, a well-known venue for public debates and discussions in London, around the year 2018. Among these attendees were the group known as 'The Raid,' who were noted for their regular presence during this time. The chapter highlights the narrator’s intrigue as friends would return from these visits with fascinating stories and knowledge gained from engaging in debates and observing notable figures such as Brother Hijab.
03:30 - 04:00: Guest’s Debate Journey and Influences The chapter "Guest’s Debate Journey and Influences" follows the guest, Rashid, as he speaks about his infrequent visits to Speaker's Corner and his personal commitments that limited his time there. Rashid clarifies that his infrequent visits weren't because he found Ali's voice annoying. The chapter discusses Rashid's life as a married man performing his duties and taking care of his parents, indicating how these responsibilities shaped his time and interests. The narrative unfolds Rashid's journey to the 'battlefield' of Speaker's Corner, setting the stage for a more detailed exploration of his experiences and influences in debates.
04:00 - 04:30: Influential Figures and Speakers Corner Experience The chapter discusses impactful individuals, highlighting a close-knit relationship between friends who contemplate a visit to Speaker's Corner. The setting involves a group gathered at a friend's house, discussing their experiences and ideas regarding impactful speaking and public discourse at Speaker's Corner.
04:30 - 05:00: Motivations Behind Attending Speakers Corner The chapter discusses the motivations behind attending Speakers Corner, with a personal anecdote shared by a speaker. The conversation introduced by a friend hinges on current events, particularly concerning Muslims, which suggests why the speaker is encouraged to attend Speakers Corner. The speaker expresses a strong will and determination, likening their stubbornness to that of Napoleon, though they humorously hope for a different historical comparison.
05:00 - 05:30: Intentions, Sincerity, and Challenges in Public Speaking In this chapter, the speaker discusses their reluctance and challenges with public speaking. They describe an instance where a friend suggested participating in a debate in London. Despite the encouragement, the speaker expresses their discomfort with being in front of cameras and prefers not to engage in the activity, emphasizing their lack of enthusiasm for public speaking. The situation illustrates the inner conflict between intentions and sincerity when faced with public engagements.
05:30 - 06:00: Approach to Content Creation and Feedback The chapter discusses the speaker's reluctance to be in front of the camera and their preference to remain behind the scenes. It highlights the challenges of staying true to one's intentions amidst praise and recognition. The speaker reflects on the importance of self-awareness and humility, referencing a quote by Abu Bakr about being seen as one truly is. They acknowledge that while praise can feel good, maintaining a grounded perspective is crucial in the content creation process.
06:00 - 06:30: Balancing Passion with Conduct The chapter titled "Balancing Passion with Conduct" explores the concept of understanding one's own inner reality and being sincere to oneself. The narrator expresses a desire to remain true to their personal values despite outside influences. They speak about being encouraged by someone to try something new, with the implication of being pushed out of their comfort zone. Eventually, they agree to the experience, leading to a significant moment that they refer to as history, suggesting that it had a lasting impact or was a turning point.
06:30 - 07:00: Debating Style and Perceptions The chapter titled 'Debating Style and Perceptions' explores the importance of self-reflection and intention-checking among Islamic activists and individuals involved in da'wah (the act of inviting people to Islam). It starts with a discussion about an interesting point regarding the need to 'check yourself.' This idea is stressed as a common and essential practice for those engaged in spreading religious teachings to ensure their intentions are aligned with their actions. The chapter includes a rhetorical question about the frequency of personal reflection, emphasizing its importance in maintaining integrity and purpose in religious activism.
07:00 - 07:30: Rhetoric and Engagement with Critics This chapter discusses the author's self-reflection and engagement with critics. The author admits to not always checking themselves honestly and only sometimes reflecting on their actions after receiving positive feedback or criticism through private messages. They acknowledge a tendency to dismiss personal errors unless confronted by others. Occasionally, they do reflect deeply on their actions after producing videos, contemplating whether they have done their best. The author also poses a question about whether they have ever decided against releasing a video following a period of reflection.
07:30 - 08:00: Shamsi Debate and Historical Context The chapter titled 'Shamsi Debate and Historical Context' discusses the planning and execution of video content related to debates or topics of interest. The speaker reflects on the potential impact of their actions and the importance of respecting certain individuals. They mention collaborating with others, such as ABD and other unnamed brothers, for advice and content planning. Additionally, there is a focus on self-improvement concerning behavior and attitude, notably how these aspects are perceived before creating video content.
08:00 - 08:30: Debates with Shamsi and Personal Reflections The narrator discusses their process of watching recorded debates and personal reactions to them. They mention that it's usually just them and their owner when watching these recordings. Despite having the intention to remain calm and composed, viewing the clips can provoke a strong emotional response. They describe being agitated by specific comments or misquotations in the videos, which sometimes causes them to lose their composure. The reflection is one of struggle with maintaining control over their reactions to these debates.
08:30 - 09:00: Ideological Differences and Theological Debates The chapter discusses the universal challenge of managing anger. The speaker acknowledges that everyone has anger issues to varying degrees, but emphasizes that it is not always intentional or controllable. They admit to sometimes losing control of their words, particularly when discussing religious matters and watching certain videos. This loss of control is rooted in frustration over others making disrespectful remarks, especially against religious figures like the Noble Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam). The speaker expresses love and respect for the Prophet, albeit while accepting that sometimes their emotions overpower their better judgment, leading to unintended expressions of anger.
09:00 - 09:30: Critique of Certain Islamic Movements The chapter 'Critique of Certain Islamic Movements' discusses the derogatory terms and harsh criticism directed at certain Muslim figures or groups. The speaker in the transcript seems to feel justified in using terms such as 'bootlickers', 'pay masters', 'AirHeads', 'robots', 'minions', 'trolls', 'Gremlins', 'freaks', 'waste papers', and fictional horror characters like 'Jason' and 'Freddy Krueger' to describe these individuals. There is an implication of strong disapproval and disdain towards the actions or attitudes of these Islamic movements or leaders.
09:30 - 10:00: Criticism of Authority and Obedience to Rulers The chapter titled 'Criticism of Authority and Obedience to Rulers' discusses the behavior of certain individuals who criticize and belittle Muslims, believing they have religious justification for their actions. The speaker refers to these individuals in derogatory terms and suggests that such behavior is known to be problematic. The conversation also touches on the speaker's experience with speakers' corner starting around 2018, indicating a context of public discussion and debate.
10:00 - 10:30: Historical Context of Obedience in Islam The chapter discusses the historical context of obedience in Islam, highlighting interactions with prominent figures like a Speakers Corner visitor named Shami. It reflects on the progression and development of the speaker, who has been followed with admiration. The chapter alludes to a debate or interaction noted as "Shami versus Broh."]} .OperationMaker**ChapterSummariesSchema.parallel_wall.result_done[1].getRecipientName())[0]## get_status()### Actions.getRecipientNames.Listener.combineably.log_results.about__Zone.context_reaction.applet_mode.from___Conclusion.mech_train.get return болезни_CLASS(adapt予定_frequency_name)=.operation([
10:30 - 11:00: Scholarly Opinions on Rebellion and Authority The chapter discusses the dynamics of rebellion and authority with a focus on a conflict that emerged over the past year and a half. It hints at unresolved issues and silencing, suggesting a scenario involving disagreements and the eventual quieting of dissent. The chapter appears to set the stage for a more detailed exploration of the events and power struggle, starting with an incident involving a person named Shami.
11:00 - 11:30: Exegesis on Obedience Hadiths The chapter titled 'Exegesis on Obedience Hadiths' begins with a discussion involving a back-and-forth conversation with an individual named Ali Dawa. The text references an incident relating to Shami and Ali Dawa's differing views around the time of the Christchurch attacks. Shami apparently expressed that he considers himself part of a 'safe sect' or following, and distanced himself from Ali Dawa, making it clear in a clarification. This incident is mentioned as having significance, promising further elaboration on its relevance.
11:30 - 12:00: Political Alliances and Historical Rulers The chapter begins with a description of an encounter involving Ali Dawa at a park, where an individual named Sham is described as the aggressor, particularly towards a group referred to as the M cult. The narrator shares an experience of visiting the park a week later where they encounter a person named Mu Man. It is noted that Mu Man was anticipated to visit the UK and was being hosted by Ali Dawa and Brother Hijab. The narrator provides a personal account of being at Speaker's Corner, listening to Mu Man's address, and interacting with Ali Dawa. The chapter seems to revolve around personal interactions, political alliances, and possible implications of these meetings.
12:00 - 12:30: The Role of Scholars in Political Context The chapter explores the interactions and experiences of the narrator with specific individuals, namely Mu Manir and Ali Dawa, in a political or social setting. The narrator describes a personal encounter with Mu Manir, highlighting a moment of connection through a hug and photograph, despite Mu Manir not recognizing him at the time. The chapter also touches upon Ali Dawa's behavior and a moment where a character named Shami was present. There is an implication of underlying tensions or unspoken issues, as depicted by Mu Manir's reluctance to engage due to anticipated outcomes. Overall, the chapter underscores the intricacies of personal relationships and social dynamics within a politically charged environment.
12:30 - 13:00: Historical Precedents of Rebellion The chapter titled 'Historical Precedents of Rebellion' explores an individual's perspective on interactions with notable figures related to rebellions and conflicts. It particularly highlights a discussion with a Shia individual and observations about Alid Dawa, touching upon the subject of Libya. The narrative suggests a scenario where militias and war criminals are actively involved in ongoing conflicts in the region. The chapter appears to provide a personal and contemporary reflection on historical and ongoing rebellious activities.
13:00 - 13:30: Complexity of Obedience and Rebellion Discussion The chapter delves into the intricacies of obedience and rebellion, particularly in the context of political scenarios. It highlights the situation in Libya as an example of how obedience can be twisted and weaponized when political motives are introduced. The discussion emphasizes that actions such as distributing weapons can drastically alter the dynamics and lead to rebellion or compliance under new influences. The narrative also touches upon personal relationships and perceptions, depicting a shift in perspective or relationship dynamics between individuals, underscored by past familiarity and current political tensions.
13:30 - 14:00: Saudi State Formation and Alliances The chapter discusses the complexities and sensitive nature of Saudi state formation and the strategic alliances involved. It highlights a narrative involving a personal reflection on the sectarian dynamics (Sunni vs Shia) that influenced political and social interactions. The speaker expresses a strong preference for promoting Sunni peace and unity, despite being aware of sectarian identities and tensions. This reflects the broader context of state-building where religious affiliations play a significant role.
14:00 - 14:30: Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab’s Influence The chapter highlights a pivotal moment for the narrator, which began with a Facebook post against Sheikh RAB. This led to an encounter at a park, coincidentally with relevant personalities including Shi and Shia Adan Rashid. The interactions occurred with the narrator's friend, brother Isa, and the discussion was set against the backdrop of the day before Ramadan. The narrator notes this time as a turning point, with an intention to focus more during Ramadan.
14:30 - 15:00: Controversies and Massacres in Early Wahhabi Movement The narrator begins by describing a moment when a discussion about worship was interrupted by a brother who whispered that 'Shami' wanted to speak to him. The narrator anticipated that the conversation would revolve around defending a figure referred to as MH, whom he sarcastically calls 'Shami's Godfather.' This suggests an exploration of intergroup tensions, potentially rooted in the early Wahhabi movement's controversies and the sectarian conflicts that characterize its history.
15:00 - 15:30: Transformation of Najd and Broader Implications The chapter describes an encounter where the narrator plans to have a private discussion with Sham, a person of interest, regarding certain matters. Upon attempting to engage in this discussion, the narrator is informed to wait. Sham eventually arrives with a group, humorously referred to as 'minions,' including multiple individuals named Bob. This scenario sets the stage for the narrative exploring themes of conflict, communication, and perhaps broader political or social changes linked to Najd.
15:30 - 16:00: Critique of Wahhabi Political Evolution The chapter discusses a personal encounter where the speaker felt disrespected due to being filmed without consent. The context involves a conversation invitation that had been previously agreed upon, leading to a public discussion at Speaker Corner. There was a sense of confusion and tension in the interaction, reflecting broader themes of respect and communication in public spaces.
16:00 - 16:30: British Influence and Saudi Emergence The chapter titled 'British Influence and Saudi Emergence' discusses the themes of personal connections and displays of power. It starts with an interaction between individuals, featuring names like Mu Medina and Ali, and highlights an incident where a person approached the narrator. This act of approaching is framed as a demonstration of fearlessness and assertion of power, especially in a public debate context. The conversation underscores the significance of appearance and relationships in signaling one's presence and influence.
16:30 - 17:00: Modern Saudi Politics and Religion The chapter discusses the relationship between modern Saudi politics and religion, focusing on the host's perspective as a Muslim. The host acknowledges the obligations and responsibilities of speaking on religious matters, highlighting the importance of expressing personal views and interpretations about the relationship between politics and religion. Additionally, despite not knowing certain individuals personally, the host shares personal impressions regarding their appearance and perceived level of devotion as Muslims.
17:00 - 17:30: Internal Struggles Within Saudi State The podcast aims to discuss ideological and normative foundations within Islam, as exemplified by internal struggles within the Saudi State. While specific figures may be mentioned, the focus remains on ideas, ideologies, and their friction with classical Islamic teachings.
17:30 - 18:00: Advice to Young Muslims in Da'wah The speaker, Shami, discusses never having regretted their actions in the context of Da'wah. They emphasize not feeling that any situation could have been managed better regarding their conduct and exchanges. Shami highlights the issue of being bullied by rhetoric and harshness from the English-speaking world, indicating a stance against yielding to such pressures.
18:00 - 18:30: Contextual Understanding of Religious Principles The chapter delves into the topic of contextual understanding of religious principles, highlighting an attitude of intolerance towards differing views on religious and moral practices. It criticizes the selective and disingenuous approach that has been promoted over the past two decades, suggesting a return to classical works to understand the essence of the religious principles being debated. The narrative challenges the notion of labeling those who disagree as 'misguided' or 'people of desires,' advocating instead for a more authentic and historical perspective.
18:30 - 19:00: Concluding Thoughts and Broader Muslim Unity The chapter explores themes of power dynamics within Islamic movements, suggesting that certain rhetoric is used to enforce the dominance of specific schools or movements. There is a discussion on the idea of having 'the upper hand' and whether this mentality is prevalent among various Islamic schools and movements. The chapter encourages broader unity among Muslims, acknowledging the existence of specific rhetoric aimed at promoting one Kingdom in particular. It highlights the importance of remembering these underlying motivations while discussing broader Muslim unity.
19:00 - 19:30: Conclusion and Final Messages The chapter 'Conclusion and Final Messages' discusses the historical context and consequences of certain events following the first Iraq War in the 1990s. It highlights the controversy and opposition to foreign, particularly American, presence in certain regions, which is seen as conflicting with religious edicts purportedly given by the prophet. The speaker acknowledges the complexity of the subject and refrains from delving into the theological implications or rulings, choosing instead to focus on the socio-political aspect of the opposition.

Bro Hajji | Rulers, Rebellion & the Najdi Dawah | Blood Brothers #46 Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 [Music] brother's podcast five pill of M production my dear brothers sisters friends and the FES out there and welcome to another episode of The Blood Brothers podcast with your host Diddy Hussein uh today's guest uh is an
00:30 - 01:00 upcoming name it's an upcoming name uh for various reasons some have described him as the Slayer of those who curse the Beloved Companions and when I say slay I mean it metaphorically some call him the cryptonite of those who side with the tyrants and lick their boots like shine why you wait sir um but I know him as broi I was actually going to give a far longer SP no you don't no no but I will
01:00 - 01:30 I'll tell you why that is first and foremost this podcast was long overdue of course and not with every guest do I have them on where I just know there's going to be an in-depth discussion well there's certain guests and I even told [ __ ] behind camera when certain guests come on I know this ain't going to be a 60-minute thing yeah uh and I hope that um you deliver on my expectations insh we are I won't try to let you down but I know you're you're tough cookie brother let's see how we get on in
01:30 - 02:00 so how's the YouTube thing going bro it's going okay yeah just you know a small YouTube channel um trying to you know educate our brothers and sisters um regarding hypocrisies of those who don't really have the best interest of the Muslim majority at heart it's more you know sectarian partisan and political at times as well so my my channel is basically trying to educate I'm I'm basic you know not even a student of knowledge a but you know like the
02:00 - 02:30 says you know so I'm trying my best and with the of the people you released a video uh earlier this week or late last week about your journey to Speakers Corner yeah you are relatively new in this scene I am um so 2018 was when you first made your debut wasn't it uh yeah I first arrived at speaker corner you rocked up with a nice beard them Shades there and uh and and you started engaging the people of right and so tell us a bit about that Journey what made you go to Speakers Corner I know you
02:30 - 03:00 mentioned it in the video yeah um that it was just a random visit to check out what's going on so tell me how it kind of transformed from that to now I would respectfully say that okay fine you got a small Channel but it's growing and it's and and it's growing at a pace which I'm closely monitoring so uh tell us tell us I'll uh I'll make it as uh brief as possible not try to bore you um I'm basically a um a simple you know lay brother who's trying to understand his Dean to the best of his visibility when
03:00 - 03:30 I was obviously learning with a graduate from Medina so I was behind the scenes just doing my my bit a lot of brothers from Birmingham used to attend Speakers Corner a lot uh that I know personally and when they attended Speakers Corner at that particular time in 2018 The Raid were regular attendees um just let's get their name out there so the brother used to keep coming back and and telling us about these you know stories and debates and stuff now when I used to watch Speakers Corner really brother hijab and
03:30 - 04:00 Rashid were the ones I used to watch very rarely though like speaker Corner didn't interest me is that cuz you find Ali's voice annoying no no no no no no but uh but yeah so I obviously just you know I'm you know married man you know performing my duties you know looking after my parents and stuff so I didn't really have the time um so when did you leave for the battlefield of speakers going so when I left for the battlefield it was it was an interesting story um my one of my have you heard of mle the one
04:00 - 04:30 that l so he's a close friend of mine listen Mutley your name's not Mutley but you know I'm ddly but anyway so he he was is close with his one brother uh who you always used to go and when he got back he goes look I feel [ __ ] needs to go to Speaker's Corner and and mle goes yeah you know what it's a good idea let's present it to him I don't know they having this background conversation so he invited us to his house and I I got to the house and we were talking about
04:30 - 05:00 boxing and you know what's going on in the news regarding the uh the situation with the Muslims and then he dropped it at me goes [ __ ] do you watch speaker corner and I said not really here and there I go what's what's up with that he said no no I went to Speakers Corner as you know and uh you should go so I'm I'm stubborn bro I'll be honest with you and uh my family and my friends can tell you that haj's I'm a small guy but I tell you when I make my mind up it's going to be difficult to uh change my opinion there's a bit of Napoleon in you year probably probably let's hope there's non Napoleon no no no I hope now who can we use another example but never mind so he
05:00 - 05:30 said what you reckon I said you know what bro n it's not my thing man you know I mean cameras and you know going out to debate driving to London as well they go come on we have a good day out the sun's out was June at that time we're just going on July so he goes let's do it Hai I go no it's not happening so I got to drop the subject I don't want to know we at we ordered pizza we ate I went back but a week later Mutley founded me and he said look [ __ ] I spoke to that brother again and I believe you should go and I said come on a look I'm not I'm not into this of you
05:30 - 06:00 know I don't want to stay behind the scenes I don't want to come out I just want to be a unknown so what was it so what was the main discouragement just being in front cameras your intentions okay you know your intentions can sway brother you know and and I'll be honest with you going into this pical game you got to check yourself you know when people praise you and as Abu Bakr said in that famous Dua that oh Allah or as he says that you know make them see me as I am I am you understand so praise is good it makes you feel feel good but you
06:00 - 06:30 know your inner reality and I know my inner reality I don't want to say but I know so that was the main reason because everyone can get you know like like so I I want to be sincere and that was the main sort of issue for me anyway personally so he you know press my buttons press my buttons say come on [ __ ] one time at least just go see how you feel see how you you know see the experience and then if you don't go again no problem so I said okay no problem and then we went and then history that's it that's it history was
06:30 - 07:00 made on that day I don't know I don't know you you made an interesting point you said you know to check yourself right and of course those the DU the Islamic activists even Mash people who are involved in da in his various forms have to always renew and realign their intentions right this is something that's uh it should be a common practice amongst those who are in those fields so let me posit this to you how often do you check yourself before you wreck yourself how myself quite often but
07:00 - 07:30 check myself I don't check myself let's not I'm not going to act like I'm an angel brother let's be honest and when I check myself it's mostly to do when I get positive private messages from brothers and [ __ ] what are you doing you're wrecking yourself bro okay so honestly that's most of the time but sometimes I do lie in bed when I do a video after editing it and I said you know what ha you come on brother you're better than that have you ever have you ever postponed or not released a video because you reflected upon it and
07:30 - 08:00 thought to yourself this may cause more harm than good to no why lie no I like you know the people we going to get to they don't deserve any respect okay and sometimes I go into the video ABD you know he advises me quite a lot we we speak on it on the blower quite a lot and he goes Hai please before the video we discuss what videos we're going to do sometimes he says Hai do this video do that video and some I discuss obviously with other brothers as well I don't want to mention their names but he said look a please sort out your attit UD so your conduct and then as I'm
08:00 - 08:30 recording you have to remember it's just me and my owner and we'll get to that so I got the got the camera you can get carried away yeah and no I I watched the video so when I say as you can see on screen I basically watched the clip and it works me up when they when when I hear them say certain things you misquotations technicalities so basically what you're saying is that you've come with a mindset to behave but then you see the clip that you're about to do and you lose it I lose it and then and I look at I think and then I go I say okay as you see and my blood's boiling I can't control myself but
08:30 - 09:00 everyone needs to work on it you know everyone has anger issues I'm sure some people control it better than others but it's not intentional let's get that out there I don't go intending you know what I'm going to use you know words that are not really appropriate it just happens at the SP when I'm watching that video as I'm going to talk about it it just gets me up and it's all to do again I would think it's about the dean because certain Brothers say you know ridiculous things even against our Noble Prophet Sall alall and you know again I love the prophet wasallam and some sometimes my anger gets the better of me so you so
09:00 - 09:30 you do feel that there is a space in which you can describe your Muslim interlocutors as bootlickers and pay masters and AirHeads and robots and and and and and and the minions minions trolls Gremlins freaks bootlickers waste papers can I carry on can I carry on waste papers you know Jason Freddy Krueger okay so you so you feel there is a space for that 100% I believe look you
09:30 - 10:00 know they are the the worst when it comes to belittling the Muslims and using look I'm called and again everyone knows probably there no secret donkey Bingham yeah yeah exactly and the reality is these they use these words believing they've got religious justification okay so we'll get to the bit about those who you have been very busy with aging yeah let us first kind of so you got into speakers cor around 2018 uhhuh
10:00 - 10:30 and then this kind of exchange began with another prominent uh uh Speakers Corner visitor by the name of shami Nam oh sorry that shami oh sorry and um and it and then what literally end up happening from from because I've been following your progress and your development for the last few years uh with admiration please yeah with admiration you're not you're not putting in the comment section CH donkey of Bing my face never that never that never um and and and so it just basically became a kind of shami versus broh [ __ ] kind of
10:30 - 11:00 thing on issues which we are going to discuss in great detail later tell tell the people how that kind of started a lot of people don't know this and this is the first time I'm addressing this uh and I think it's important that you know a lot of people know what really happened and what led towards this year and a half back and forth I think of uh silenced you son but anyway if you keep barking I'll come back but you're kind of Silent at the moment but what happened was a week before or two weeks before I think this was shami had an
11:00 - 11:30 issue with Ali dawa yeah I remember this and Ali dawa can confirm this as well he had a a back and forth with Ali dawa I think um shami came out saying I think this is during the time of the Christ Church uh brutal attacks and then shami believing he's on Cloud9 and part of the safe sect uh I mean the safe boot leing SE should I say but he made it a clarification by saying I am not with Ali dawa etc etc and this is relevant I'll explain why later so he did that
11:30 - 12:00 video then I think a week later he approached Ali dawa in the park and there was a whole back and forth and uh you know sham being the aggressor and the M cult as they are the week after I came to the park and mu man was there yeah I remember mu man was there and I didn't know mu man was going to be at Speakers Corner I knew was in the UK and Ali dawa and brother hijab were hosting him so I came and it's on content and you can watch it and I'm behind mu man uh listen to his uh address so I was speaking to Ali dawa and when the when
12:00 - 12:30 he finished I hugged mu man now at that time mu manir doesn't know who the hell I am maybe he does now but at that time he didn't know who I am so I hugged him took a photo with him I speaking to Ali dawa and I was with mu for about an hour shami was in the park that day and as uh Ali da say he made a sharp left turn didn't want to you know he was speaking about M man you know behind his back and when he finally came down he didn't want to know and he knew why what was going to happen so he seen me with mu man and
12:30 - 13:00 he seen me with Alid dawa he didn't debate mu man and I went back to Birmingham I had a discussion with the Shia and I went back during that week I think there was a a big issue in Libya that that week coming and I put up some posts about yeah because obviously he's got a he's got his militias up in Libya uh yeah up the joint yeah supporting the the war criminal
13:00 - 13:30 um so obviously yeah A lot's happening in Libya to actually show that that strand of thinking is actually not as apolitical as you think very much political let's be honest give them guns they're no different from D give them weapons we'll get to that oh Sor sorry I'm getting too getting carried away but yeah so I put some post um regarding and M and remember me and Sham were cool like prior to that mean sh are cool like I used to shake his hand and you know we used to have casual discussions obviously him being a box head doesn't really help but you know I
13:30 - 14:00 no I'm going to say as he is unfortunately I'm going to say as he is but you know we were casual I knew he was a m all along but because my direction and my reputations and my education was to give the Shia a bit of you know nightmares should I say I didn't really want to entertain an interest on debate even though I knew he was I knew it but I wanted Sunni peace and Sunni Unity Unity so I went back and then shami obviously must have got hold of
14:00 - 14:30 those Facebook posts I made against shik RAB and the following week I went to the park and this is where it all started Shi was in the park I was in the park I didn't really speak to him that day and I was speaking to some Shia Adan Rashid we had debates with and brother Isa was with us and we were obviously just having some conversations so it's about 6 o00 this is a day before Ramadan by the way last year day before Ramadan I remember and my intention was to come now and don't come Ramadan because you know engross myself
14:30 - 15:00 in you know worship Etc so one of my brothers who was with me came up to me and whispered him as I was having a discussion with some Shia and he said shami wants to speak to you I knew what it was going to be about I knew it I knew what this was about summoned yeah I was uh what do they call in America uh suboo you're subo I was suboo and uh so I knew you know deep down I was thinking oh yeah I know what this is about shami is goingon to defend his uh Godfather MH so I said
15:00 - 15:30 all right go back to him and tell him that I'll have this discussion with you privately I go we'll talk privately he goes no problem [ __ ] so he went back and I spoke to the Shia and I said look bro sham is going to have a word with me I'm going to have casual discussion 10 minutes 15 minutes wait for me that's what I thought so I'm waiting he come back to me the brother goes yeah yeah sh goes that's fine so I'm waiting he comes with his minions what's that minion called Bob he's got a lot of Bobs around him and um so loads of his minions came and
15:30 - 16:00 he's got a camera in my face so I felt disrespected between me and you I felt like you know I this is after you said let's have a conversation and he agreed with the brother and if he if he comes out and says oh no no I didn't say well you know is very very strong but anyway so he come up to me and I go shami like what's going on do you I mean like what's going on and he said oh this is Speaker Corner okay so so let's do this public let's do because what it was he ran from
16:00 - 16:30 man so it was his way cuz you see me with mu Medina you see me with Ali da it was and remember sitting with Al we're going to get to that it was his way of showing the people if I want to approach anyone I'll approach them and that's what he said to me when we had that debate and whoever's watched it will remember so that's what led to him approaching me because it's like saying like I'm backl you know don't think I'm scared so I mean I mean I mean look before we get into this any further um there is a Duty I have as a
16:30 - 17:00 host I'm sure you do and there is a duty I have as a Muslim uh to to state that um I know you describe sumer's box head and stuff like that I mean I I don't know these brothers personally I know their views uh very well um and in their absence I have to do say that um I think shami is rather good-looking and and I'm sure he's a better Muslim than and uh but um the his supporters then that all began yeah and then the
17:00 - 17:30 two and fro began and the video started coming out uh the The Exchange right and I don't want today's podcast to be about shami I don't want it to be about specific figures I mean figures may get mentioned but I want it to be about the ideas of course the ideology and the substance of the ideas and most importantly it's normative rooting if there is a normative rooting in in the in the N of Islam the of Islam yeah the text of Islam and the works of the of the classical Scholars but we move into that topic this two and fr from
17:30 - 18:00 shami have you ever regretted it no okay never have you ever felt that it could have been handled or managed in a better way if you if you if you're referring to my conduct as a whole I'm talking about the fact that the exchange yeah the exchange this is in the english- speaking world I believe that we have been bullied long enough with their rhetoric and their um you know harshness and you
18:00 - 18:30 know where the save sex or anyone that differs with us or has any disagreement with us by default you are misguided you are the people of desires you are the people of you know bid Etc so I believe we we have shown that look the the approach that you've been promoting for the past two decades was very selective and disingenuous what we've done is we've gone over the centuries and said well what you've been promoted in essence from the actual classical works
18:30 - 19:00 and from Islamic you know from the and from the even n from uh we we we've got the upper hand would you not then say then I'll posit this then to you doesn't that strand of thinking exist amongst more schools and movements no I believe that this is really to enforce uh one Kingdom in particular okay and the rhetoric cuz you have to remember my dear brothers that they
19:00 - 19:30 spearheaded this methodology only because and this is after the sahwa and as we'll get to that later in the '90s the the first Iraq war yeah the first Iraq war so this is where it stem from because there was very there was much a protest regarding certain yeah there was a vocal opposition to Americans Landing in in in in in in a land which the prophet said explicitly said that they can't be here they can't be Jews and Christians remove them now remember when we're not I don't want to sort of go into you know know what this means and what's the shut out of this but what I
19:30 - 20:00 mean is military boots yeah were invited voluntarily by The Establishment by the kingdom to bombard attack another Muslim country another Muslim country and but I guess again just just just to kind of like just the the opposing argument was that Saddam was a Godless Bist okay right uh but fundamentally those American bombs were killing Muslims and and and we could add to that why couldn't they because remember the Arab League yeah why couldn't they seek assistance from Egypt remember Egypt the
20:00 - 20:30 biggest Arab uh military army why couldn't they seek assist they've got plenty of money got plenty of cash you could treat them as mercenaries pay them also you got obviously turkey you could pay them so why run to absolutely yeah yeah absolutely so I mean the two and fro The Exchange uh the style in which you adopted very quickly um which many of your supporters and well wishers have even highlighted to you you know the tone the language the aggression the passion um is this
20:30 - 21:00 something which you know you feel is Justified no I'm not justifying it but what I believe is that you it's proportionate do you I believe so but remember the lens might be different from the viewers cuz it depends on how they they view it some words that I use can be you know construed as aggressive but I use the you know principle which is that be arrogant to the Arrogant one twice
21:00 - 21:30 over and with regards to uh so with regards to is it has has the boat for reconciliation or any kind of reconciliation has that ship long sailed but then I get the feeling that our brother shami and those who come from that kind of strand of thinking are not too much about reconciliation no no no no you want to be completely honest and I think Honesty is the best policy that to say for us Muslims to have Unity there's no Unity with these people there is no Unity with these people they want Unity no no they won because we are from
21:30 - 22:00 from the F from by default we are the people of innovation so there is no Unity but from my side because remember I don't class them as innovators I believe they're severely misguided and their methodology is flawed and it's basically a bootlicking uh methodology to suit but but you not no I wouldn't because this is this is a h of a Muslim whil I believe that they carry a methodology which is subservient and boot licking and they are waste papers of the rulers more no
22:00 - 22:30 no why am I saying rulers because that's what we're going to get to later ruler most notably the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia ruler and if you want to add you know another no if you want to extend it then you could add General CC and you could add the CIA agent so you see it's politically motivated and under this principle people are let's let's call it as it is people are declared as innovators to the extent that they're similar to the J meaning those evil sex
22:30 - 23:00 that sprung the the ugly head in the early part of the salaf we're no different from them do you classify yourself as a Sala no okay what is your background I'm Hani in being you know taught in the and the madasa being a Pakistani background okay and I classify myself as an A okay an A in terms of adhering to adhering to the and in terms of obviously I believe that we affirm and
23:00 - 23:30 again this is now going into the aspects of theology but why would I call myself a that that's a good question because the salafy term and again people can say well if the Muslim name has been hijacked then would you not call it some no because Allah told us to call us of Muslims where caie that is now that's been connected now to a certain group it's like a VIP exclusive group but it is a broad spectrum of course who speaks for salafia because because a salafia spectrum I don't care if anyone disagrees with me or agrees with me it
23:30 - 24:00 has everything from Isis Al Al all the way to Al yeah and and then you got the onest as well yeah you got the onus you got the you got you got the you got theab there's a whole Spectrum who speaks for them who's it you understand there's there's a whole Spectrum there's a whole strand you got you got a very a Jihadi strand in their mindset in terms of bringing about Revival and change you've got those who are very quietist but they're not actually quietist it's a whole Spectrum no one speaks for and the term has been hijacked notably
24:00 - 24:30 again look we are notably by the loudest on the strive we are striving to follow the man this is no doubt about it no one would disagree with me or you on that we have to strive to follow the man the methodology of the now the methodology of the which we're going to get to regarding the videos and what future videos of got believe you me they're not following the methodology of the they're following the methodology of those dirty boots of MBS and his mics no I'm be I'm be honest why why mece our words and
24:30 - 25:00 it's it's it's shocking for people to even you know can't can't see past their rhetoric and we've been doing this for a year and a half and believe me I could carry on do you feel that some people may not look beyond your rhetoric it maybe by my attitude but my evidences and my positions which is in accordance to classical Islamic thought and positions cannot be ignored a you could disagree with me and I'm sure you do in terms of attitude and many others but when you when you see past time
25:00 - 25:30 maybe my videos I do see past that's so I get to the end there you well so I'm but but I'm saying to you you cannot deny and again you could disagree with me and you've got the right to my evidences speak for themselves the evidences are clear the only person or people or groups that would reject it are those who are hisb yeah so um but when you say hisb here just clarify who you referring I'm referring to the neoy pseudo copy nji 21st century bootlickers
25:30 - 26:00 wastepaper you made those phrases before I'm going to be honest so so the state of Speakers Corner as I see in the last two years is that it was once very much dominated by um those who are kind of from a salafi a persuasion yeah it was generally dominated by m who were going there and frequenting there now there's a bit of diversity there mhm um you know that and and and I say diversity as a more appropriate term for actually disunity yeah uh where there was you
26:00 - 26:30 know Muslim mallah were making huge ways and they still are the most effective group within Speaker's Corner by a country mile but now you do have uh you have various shitty groups right you I've even noticed a few of those who come from the a b persuasion um I've seen some brothers from a diandi persuasion that are there uh and I'm seeing that intram Muslim discussions is now becoming more and more how productive do you think that is in terms of the broader vision of Speakers Corner
26:30 - 27:00 dawa I believe that Speakers Corner in terms of the Islamic uh da scene it has a lot of diversity and for me again coming from a Hani a background I welcome it I welcome it again the the No No Doubt from a theological basis and from a methodological basis I disagree with them but what I mean is that the sopy you know domination should I say and most notably the intolerant ones and again no need to to mention who they are believed that they had some sort of
27:00 - 27:30 superiority over the Park yeah the park meaning they beli that they are who whoever wants to know about Islam come to us anyone else is a deviant so Monopoly yeah Monopoly okay they they believe they had a monopoly for so long and there's brothers look who have been there for years let's let's talk about brother Hashim and brother Mansour of course you know who've been there for decades giving da you know educating the the people regarding you know Christianity or rather Islam and and and refuting CHR but this new wave which started in the
27:30 - 28:00 '90s and you know obviously you've been around with the again petrol dollar you know uh you know incentives they've been publishing books and it's all to do with again like I said preservation and the pseudo copy beliefs they believe that obviously being of the same sect everyone else is misguided and destined for a painful torment I'm not saying they're making but they are misguided so yeah I I I welcome it uh like the Islam C the brothers from up North the thei brothers um when they came down to the
28:00 - 28:30 park what was their intention was their intention to have uh debates with sunnis because of what you the Hani non position or was it because you know they want to debate whether 48 miles is you know sufficient as a traveler they came to refute the Shia Islam was the goal is to for Islam to reign supreme so all of these you know uh different you know denominations or or groups or movements that are coming to educate Islam or educate Muslims about Islam and and non-muslims well it's a blessing um you
28:30 - 29:00 know with regards to uh certain positions held by those who are commonly uh attribute to themselves the title Sala um I have a a somewhat of a not discomfort but a a sometimes it's a glaringly obvious thing that you know this this this this likening towards uh blind obedience to rulers Authority and these kind of things it's not
29:00 - 29:30 necessarily always exclusive to those who describe themselves as uh you know um the abuad types yeah or the Sala Publications Islam there's there's others who who who come from a similar persuasion uh who would say that yes we were we studied in Medina University and you know we had a similar training study the same books and those views still very much are present in various other versions of that I don't want to explicitly name them no you need to um
29:30 - 30:00 but guess what I'm saying is that this strand of thinking with regards to especially rulers Authority obedience and and and kind of T this exists amongst other variations and the principle look that you we we touched on before that who speaks for salais as a whole and within the salafi movement even though principally they're the same they've got cut fights between themselves and we don't want to mention who they are but they root they the ass is one is one so this blind
30:00 - 30:30 obedience obeying the ruler you know even if he fugs you back and and and and takes you out the rhetoric that we hear and we don't again my position and I've made myself clear will will obviously go into it later regarding is that it's better not to do it and I've I've made my stance clear from May 2019 until this day but what we don't accept is that this blind obedience and this you know boot lecking you know methodology to the
30:30 - 31:00 point that one ruler and one Kingdom has all of these texts applied on them when they're so forceful in putting these texts across and these evidences from the Sal and the it's only connected and applied on one set or family should we say let's be honest it's a family so it's hypocritical no matter how much differences they have between themselves that's what unites them and blind obedience to Saudi Arabia so let's look at some of these uh these masalas some
31:00 - 31:30 of these religious issues because these are very deep issues these are these are things which uh explicit the prophet sallallahu Alam spoke about these are things which Allah subhah waala mentioned and referred to in the Quran and these are things which some of the Giants of our tradition have written about extensively right all the way from imali toi the four Imam they talk about these things in great detail so let's look at the issue of obeying the the ruler the ruler right um because this
31:30 - 32:00 seems to be a a very Central uh point in the dawa or of many caes course right of course this what unites them by the way yeah so so so so let's talk about your apparent issues with this with this application yeah of this principle because we're not saying that obeying the ruler isn't a normative principle or a proposition it is a very normative Orthodox Maxim but it has a context it's nuanced it's nuanced very Nuance very nuance and this is why uh we've been
32:00 - 32:30 deceitfully uh what I would say deceitfully misled by these groups of brothers so what is your issue haaji with the obedience to NBS the Saudi regime okay or any or any un Islamic but Muslim yeah any Muslim ruler or Muslim government that is ruling by other than Islam okay uh without je rest um you know because I don't want to make
32:30 - 33:00 it specific about Saudi because but whilst I appreciate it's going to naturally gravitate towards that pull towards them yeah but but but let's let's have a generic understanding everything from she Hina to Imran Khan to erdogan to MBS and I'm not putting them all on the same level forgot about mbz yeah mbz oh God who who's actually the real brains behind yeah the real string puller what is the issue with your understanding of how this issue of obeying the rulers of some
33:00 - 33:30 of so no doubt peace security stability in the Muslim land from a musl point of view is always number one it'll always be number one preservation of Life preservation of and M as IM said in so the five five uh you know objectives of the Shar now when it comes to I have been forceful in saying that we as Muslims should obey the ruler but remember the Clause that we obey in good and we don't
33:30 - 34:00 dis we don't obey in Disobedience that's point one yeah now rulers don't have a prepass you don't grab all of these R and all these and then say the ruler has complete right to oppress to kill to let me say commit Hitler likee massacres and the Muslims because of this a Hadith have to submit and basically
34:00 - 34:30 have have humiliation and generations upon Generations have to be subservient to this humiliation no Islam is clear and the when they were met with Tyrant rulers in their time because allaha said in the Quran that when ibraim Alam talked about you know when Allah says we will make you an IM amongst the people and then ibraim alisam said what about my Offspring then Allah responded by saying my Covenant does not extend to
34:30 - 35:00 the wrongdoing people now with this ayat now so there's a n right there because remember it's not the cam of the scholar on its own that we go by cuz many scholars have said have wrote on this extensively like you said comprehensively wrote chapters ET whatever chapters they are about obedience when this n is present presented to the best of generations now they're dealing with Tyrant
35:00 - 35:30 rules you named the Ty rulers of their of the early salaf how did they react now you could say it's a mistake but when they've got Nos and Prophet said whoever is killed by defending his religion his honor his property he's a press is a mar now Giants Giants used this and did of these aats now you could
35:30 - 36:00 argue they're wrong okay their understanding of it but the Presidents by saying that there was this is now the another thing we want to discuss of the salf when the Sals rebelled in huge droves because of what did they Rebel because of power did they Rebel based on you know they don't like a said ruler because he legislated or against them in one no it Injustice and oppression Injustice and oppression and there's micro oppression and there's macro oppression we know from what in the time
36:00 - 36:30 of the they said if all the nations brought their Fons we just need to bring one ha yeah yeah he was going around and slaughtering huge number of people he was the early Sal knew the dean the best their understanding of the dean is unparallel to anyone you bring today which you would call the Giants of your time they rebelled in huge numbers now I want to argue this if they rebelled does that make him
36:30 - 37:00 Ki interesting if they rebelled because you can't have one set of principles for us and say anyone that's leave the action just by speaking we'll get to that later that would render you AI now if you've got a principle that anyone that re against rules of why ain't they that's simple and strip okay so let me so let me posit this to you again then yeah okay you just cited an example uh of Bin yusf and and the Rebellion against him but there were also times in history and I'm glad you mentioned that it is a very nuan and contextual
37:00 - 37:30 discussion there are times where we will find eviden in from the salaf uh where there was rebellion and you will find times where there was not rebellion and those those from the salaf who opposed those who did re exactly so and this was clearly a difference amongst them difference of opinion and and and I would even go as far as to say that even when um Hussein when he decided to make his way to kufa there were there were companions that Tried dissuading Him of course that and I'm sure you watch it I and there was some who dissuaded him um
37:30 - 38:00 that's not to say that the path and the reasoning was not just it was it was let's add this as well you you you eloquently presented that when and there and I've done a video on it you could go watch and you've watched it 55 minutes when hus was in Medina let's add this as well because because the reason why I didn't bring up hus because they always argue oh you know what hus made so why I mention the is because now the texts are established and the exactly they've now cified and they've got all these from
38:00 - 38:30 The Companions and they were taught by them when H was in Mecca he refused to pledge to yaid he refused him and Abdullah Zu they left and went where to Mecca when he got all those letters from the people of kufa imabi wrote in hisl he said that got mared with 16 members of his and he went out from Mecca to kufa to what to seek the now look he didn't go because didn't oppress remember the Battle of har which happened after the killing yazid wasn't
38:30 - 39:00 what we call deserving of the because mu basically because of his power in sham he was the after conceded but to get to my point is that when you mentioned they went out and many companions advised him not to go you could go through all of those reat not one of them said obey your ruler even if he fls your back beats your back and fls your so let's look at about mentioned in Muslim um where
39:00 - 39:30 basically theah he asked mess of Allah we were living in an evil time and Allah B us good in which we live now will there ever be evil after this good the prophet wasallam said yes uh and he replied and any good after this evil then the prophet said yes and then the prophet went on to describe rulers after me will come who do not follow my guidance and my Sunnah some of their men will have the hearts of devils in a body and then he went on to say you should
39:30 - 40:00 listen and obey them even if the ruler strikes your back takes your wealth even still Listen and Obey yeah right now if this Hadith was presented and it is very commonly cited very common it is commonly cited from the likes of those who of the thinking of and ham to everything from those who come to the rulers you understand and I want to make something very clear which I said in a podcast with hijab recently is that this political quietism which is actually very loud you know when quietism is very
40:00 - 40:30 loud and when apoliticism is very political is not restricted to uh what's commonly known as the it exists very much amongst the the and and even some the of the people of yeah um but this Hadith in specifically is cited yes so why what is the problem with obeying the ruler even if you lashes back even if he has hearts of the Devils what's what's the issue here the
40:30 - 41:00 issue here is the prophet wasam and we go to the books of the to obviously get for their explanation from the sh and IM presents this and even though there there is comment upon this statement for said that so there is on this statement but yes we say and don't get too excited he does say the M is so now what we argue here is that yes the default position and I've conceded numerous times over
41:00 - 41:30 the year and a half that is better to obey your ruler okay it's better to obey a ruler send someone to advise him to stop his oppression now IM subh believe it or not when he places all of these of obeying your ruler you know what chapter he places it under the chapter of fighting the rebels now if this was clearcut har yeah you cannot Rebel so remember
41:30 - 42:00 the prophet said what even if he plugs your back and takes your what has he mentioned anything about killing here no no no is restricted to two injustices plugging your back and taking you out explains this and he says meaning with a right so if he fls your back applying the if he takes your wealth taking the zakat Okay so let me then posit this back to you go for it from my research I
42:00 - 42:30 found and and through my experience in in daa and engagement with brothers from this engage from this background and persuasion even those who commonly site these kind of things um I find that uh many of the classical Scholars MH uh when they talk about these um hadiths it's nearly always to do with there you go you took the words out my mouth BR and and and let's be very clear about something as well and this is something that I don't mince my words in when I say this when we've had and we have had
42:30 - 43:00 tyrannical in our history from all three dynasties the main Sunni Dynasty the Golden Age yeah we've had them from the Omas the abas and the Ottomans right and we've had them amongst theik the the MLS the vids we've had them M you could them of course yeah but the point here is we need to remember that for the prophet even when he said the yeah these are who established the
43:00 - 43:30 they're fighting what called yeah and they they are extending the borders they are defending collecting the Zak they are implementing the Islamic courts not aiding the kuf against so they he actually because this was basically at a time where the abases were very weak and they were emerging Sunni sultanates like the sjs and others more powerful were way more power if
43:30 - 44:00 they wanted to a click of a finger they could have moved on they want they didn't want to they didn't want disunity and they still respected thei about not having killed the L yeah was it said kill whoever he may be it may be absolutely so here IMI was trying to basically set an arrangement with regards to what allows obedience and what is and he even spoke about the different types of the one who utters the one who utters in his private area
44:00 - 44:30 the one who comes and calls people to Arms the one and and and he classifies you understand so the the issue that I have is that when you're trying to apply these many prophetic statements to today's rulers bro it's a oxymoron isn't it to today's rulers were quite frankly who they are anti- Islam let's call it as it is quite frankly they have what's going on recently let's let's just add before sorry to cut you off the recent changes the recent itical drastic decisions made not just
44:30 - 45:00 long ago yeah are these sort of rulers that the the prophet sahu alhi wasallam advises to obey abely because because because I I mean traitors betrayers call every adjective Under the Sun now you made an important point about the categorization of yeah IM which you could call Islam in the because he was before in his M he classified into four separate categories
45:00 - 45:30 tell us number one he mentioned those who are the the ones that are Highway robbers because remember you have to obey your rulers number two and they did it without so basically they went and they they were just thieves you know just just creating facad on the earth and he says that as well he says number two is the again but they have a t wheel so meaning they were hungry the the the the W providing for them so
45:30 - 46:00 they they were Highway robbers but they had a reason why they did it it was circumstantial it was circumstantial you know oppression the weren't giving their rights you know that the subjects weren't getting basic necessities Etc as the explain number three the now to those intolerant salais if was so black and white to the point that anyone that Rebels by the tong as you mentioned and then by his arms by actions why is it that the are classifying them into separate categories number four the most
46:00 - 46:30 important that that make for major sin that's the of the remember when they use this term which are been called the and you go to the books of this a theological Point theological where they make see the method the of the and the is if they connected to the understanding of IM what and so what was
46:30 - 47:00 their they made for major sins you go to the classical Scholars who wrote about sex every time they mention Al point one they make for major sins and make of the Companions and they made their blood Halal ETC number four let's go to number four he said a group of people from amongst the people of Truth now let me ask you this question brother dly if you're rebelling against your ruler how can you be from amongst the people of truth it's very difficult it's very difficult isn't it
47:00 - 47:30 because remember you these intolerant you know Neo cies by default you rebel against your ruler you are a while negating those three other as exactly those three other different groups so when you mention about let me get to that now we got a statement here and I I don't want to quote it wrong because it's theth of the Prophet the Hadith of um uh Malik when he mentions the best of rulers is the one that you pray for you and they pray for them and going get to the end part and then when they asked
47:30 - 48:00 that they what's it called uh yeah so they they they they curse you and you curse them and then they mentioned uh the thei he said yeah so shall we not fight them sorry I'm looking at cuz there three hadiths which are the same and I'm looking at shall we not fight them with the sword shall we not unleash our swords and the prophet said providing that they establish to prayers amongst you you know IM noi says about this IM no when he comments on
48:00 - 48:30 this he said that this means as we mentioned before and then what he mentions he says not because of their sins and their oppression providing they do not change the of Islam okay now and let let's ask this what did you mention about the zakat about the fut about various elements that the the ruler there are conditions sh conditions which is very much mainstream and normative within
48:30 - 49:00 Sunni Theology and and within the full schools is that obedience to a ruler is caveated on certain things and the ruler remember when were writing about this stuff for 30 they're only talking about in the context of they they didn't think of an alternative reality was unimaginable that there would be any system other than a for the let alone 57 plus nation states that are ruling by other than Islam where where the flags that they're using are coined by let's put that discussion aside when that when when when when the Giants were
49:00 - 49:30 speaking and writing about this stuff extensively they always spoke about these issues right and this is why even I mean let's even touch upon a bit of History here let's do that when the mumluk dynasty preserved the abbasids after the fall of bdad 1261 onwards it was practically just after yeah after it was practically just the Abbasid were just a ceremonial body in KIRO yeah yeah they literally just kept them in castles and and made them sign off the Declaration but it's still interesting that even then the mums still afforded
49:30 - 50:00 those those sh conditions to them to them you declare when we go out to battle when there's a new law implemented it will be signed off by you when Moon of Ramadan and E is cited you announce it or you the you the J so these are still very very specific things yeah and I just find it very a that in today's time these various verses and Stat like for example even the verse inah Allah says um is in I
50:00 - 50:30 believe you have believe obey Allah obey the messenger yeah now when I read the of he said that the The Obedience to those in Authority amongst you is on condition that they are obeying Allah and his messenger there you go because Allah says obey him what preceded you what preceded exactly obey Allah obey the messenger and Obey those in because Allah is even talking about the obedience is caveated on the Obed to Allah his messeng so I find it very difficult
50:30 - 51:00 broji that when these evidences are cited DEC decontextualized from today's political reality and the reality in which they were actually revealed and and referenced to and it's technicalities what what said and I'm going to add on this uh your point later what they're saying is a statement of truth but what they want from it is falsehood so what they're saying is true that you obey the ruler we're not denying that nor have we opposed you on that it's the application of who it
51:00 - 51:30 applies to and the reality on the ground because when the wrote those statements we're talking third fourth fifth sixth all the way up until what let's say 1924 yeah who were they who were the rulers who were the Sultans who were the um they were now we add on that as what you mentioned about the history 1258 656 is when the sack of Bagdad happened the I think it was mut got killed know the third the third he got sampled
51:30 - 52:00 on on the horse there's no there's no no more there's no K it's gone MLS I mean the Mongols stretch from bloody Mongolia all the way and they took Lebanon and Syria without a fight when they find out what happened to the people of Bagdad where over one or two million people got slaughtered they go you know what we don't want this leave that the rulers at that time were the Dynasty ofah and his offspring weren really didn't really live up to his the only one that was I would say that who lived the Legacy or carried the
52:00 - 52:30 Legacy was in Egypt and he fought the uh Crusaders in the Battle of um mansur who were the soldiers at that time they were the MBL the foot soldiers B cotos and and and that particular uh strand or those those group of people from the caucuses you notice one thing a did he declare himself to be a khif after no because why the the the we had enemies at our doorstep so the priority was to preserve the the the meaning the
52:30 - 53:00 the borders the lands when Mongols wrote then then obviously n passed away his wife took over Shor and then obviously his son who was young who was the ruler who was the scholar at that time ABD Salam no is ABD what did he say because this kid here he's too young to rule we've got the Mongols whose Empire stretches up probably about 70% of the known world at the time they even got to Poland Believe It or Not K took over when he defeated them Jal did he declare himself to be aif of course not no he
53:00 - 53:30 didn't so what do you say about those rulers of today who who own a part portion of a land and you're applying these prophetic narrations on them bro my dear brother the same the same can be applied to Alan the same can be applied to salubi saubi Bro could have declared himself Khalifa anytime anytime anytime but he wasn't but his his his his theological loyalty was always to the Abbasid and he knew how useless they were at the time exactly do you understand and just a historical correction the the Khalifa who who got trampled by the horse by the Mongol mustasim yeah I thought it Wasim so so I
53:30 - 54:00 guess the point I'm trying to make here is and and what we discussing here is that obeying the ruler is a normative principle and Maxim within Sunni uh Islam providing providing they obey Allah and his messenger now talk about those who don't obey Allah and his messenger so this is interesting now so are we then now saying that is then Justified if you got the means yeah okay it's all about we don't have the but if they did now let's put
54:00 - 54:30 that right there in a hypothetical scenario if they did have the they did have the Sher and they did have the logistics because the the Sher the means the materials subjective has to also be based on their on an assessment of preserving Islam preserving the life so everything taken into context bare minimum that there's less so remember once let's let's present this in a um a present context and we'll talk about that we'll touch on that more in the
54:30 - 55:00 Syrian Revolution yeah you have to remember in 2011 when they first revolted or demanded their rights should we say it was a peaceful peaceful from to all over all over y y they were getting slaughtered were they not yes then the syrians or the the syrians the sunnis in the Syrian Army deflected deflected and become the free Syrian Army in no one ever expected the the the global powers to get involved in this conflict and Assad that was taking a bounding he was taking an absolute
55:00 - 55:30 beating losing territory upon territory now listen to this dly now you could see the state of what's happened in Syria it's subjective isn't it in 2011 12 13 bro uh the mujahadin were tapping on the gates of Damascus yeah literally around the corner and then obviously Isis got involved the foreign powers got involved Russia got involved and things drastically changed ex up until the winter of January of the winter of 2013 the muj knocking on the gates literally they were they were they were they had the Y Camp they were literally around
55:30 - 56:00 the corner I think it's like 10 miles or 15 miles from from actual the Palace of Bashar now when we talk about you said if all of these were in play is not well in this situation if anyone took up arms now in this time can groups of people do it no I would say States so for example Saudi Arabia if for example Egypt wanted to tole Saudi Arabia I meaning not the Egypt we see today of C the traitor I'm talking about you know Islamic um M who obviously cares about Islam and
56:00 - 56:30 Muslims decided you know what what's going on in Saudi Arabia they oppressing Muslims they're changing the of Islam what we said as you can see with music concerts that that's legitimate that would be permissible I don't think that can be described as Rebellion I would even go as far as to say that if there was such a believing ruler who had those aspirations that he is merely expanding Dar Islam in the way it should be and and is just removing an obstacle which is Saudi in the peninsula other why would that be impermissible it would IM Malik let's and I need to do that called
56:30 - 57:00 Tyrant rules of just rules don't worry that's coming I'll just give you a little like he said Cav what's it called what's that word called T Tas T taser IM Malik said now remember who are the worst of the people meaning you got the the the among those who were claiming to be Muslims and the prophet call them what the IM Malik when he when he was asked and this is also uh mentioned by I think various others from the Malik here IM Malik said if there was a difference oh if if the ruler un you fight the
57:00 - 57:30 ruler if he's just if he's like Omar abdulaziz and if the ruler is not just you don't obey him and if he fought the I'm I'm doing it for B him because he's at the top of my head if thear fought him don't fight with none of them let them fight amongst each other so this so why are these things mentioned why do you always quote for example I'll give you another example so they going to quote these from the why I said it's a valid difference of opinion that could been said for the they'll qu Hass albas they'll quot his statement from they say
57:30 - 58:00 ohas said the rulers are a punishment upon you and they use these we say no problem we we'll accept this for you we'll accept this and we'll concede but what about the rest of the Sal what about their opinions why you trying to dictate one statement and say this is the statement of the S of that time it don't work like that what's your thoughts on the um on the Hadith about the one the ruler who commits and therefore that
58:00 - 58:30 justifies Rebellion or being held to account materially um because again you know is something which a lot of people you know I've engaged them they don't seem to specify what this means and if I'm for my understanding again this Hadi is again talking about an Islamic ruler who who has committed yeah and I guess the difficulty that I'm saying is that people are I mean look my
58:30 - 59:00 views on stuff is very clear over the course of seven eight years I've made my views on the regimes and the rulers of today's world very clear B yeah yeah I mean I've been labeled that time ago but the point here is that I I do not see any of them as legitimate Islamic rulers as it has been explained in great detail by the and and even the sahab and so forth as per Islam as Islam yeah you you understand but that doesn't that that shouldn't be equated with and that shouldn't become synonymous to Rebellion because if that was the case we would be
59:00 - 59:30 supporting uprisings left right and Center exactly um another important point I guess I want to make is with regards to this issue of how do you understand that Hadith the that's from and he mentioned that so we obey the we pledged with Islam to Listen and Obey in Good Times in bad times and in you know in times of distress Etc then it says except when we see clear kuur now means
59:30 - 60:00 and it says from as like from Allah so it has to be proed from the Quran and theah okay now kuur when a ruler ruled by Islam okay we live in the UK so obviously we live inur but just say hypothetically now in a Muslim state that is canalized and occupied which we've had even though the majority of the population is Muslim is because this they they've taken it over so even you can argue that all right
60:00 - 60:30 when the occupi is like ftin for example let's even look when the Ottomans were minority rulers in uh the Balkans that was D Islam because the authority was in the of by Islam whereas a country can be 99% Muslim with a Muslim ruler and still be he could be implement or for example a ruler that is becomes a mad for example I'm not going into but for example and even from your Scholars you
60:30 - 61:00 know now was Iraq Islam orur at that time that's what gave the legitimacy for bombarding Iraq because Godless Bist yeah a Godless B Alman Etc Alman so now the situation is Ku many of the Sal or some of the Sal should I say may really yeah ibraim made
61:00 - 61:30 made um who else made did they cite that Hadith when when they did that no they go he's cfir like goes he believes in t he's cfir and list this is what I'm trying to get to now so now we've got president from the who made him some didn't and that's maybe they saw something from because they were from Iraq yeah hassas was from Bas yeah so maybe he didn't make of him because of the impendent of the so he didn't but some of the did so there president so it's not with if there's
61:30 - 62:00 clear that he's fallen in and you're aware of it and you've done who says this is now connected and is entwined with the you can yeah said the reason why listen to this is very important while we're getting to about 99% Balkans Etc and go check you Calli but you know you conveniently miss this out said one of the Malik Scholars said the reason why they made was not because
62:00 - 62:30 of his sin and oppression because he changed the sh yeah so it's to do leg do you see see the point here I'm trying to raise acts and legislation it it's connected connect now you could say oh you know then they I don't want to get to that but we're talking about the Sal who made some of the Sal didn't make but they were B due to his and his injustices but there were some from the Sal that on because he changed the so now where
62:30 - 63:00 are you when it comes to this are they now stick by your principles now so I guess I guess the point I guess what I'm exploring this discussion with you is that my brother is this this issue of obedience and and rebellion and stuff it really isn't black and white it's not and and I think one of the my greatest concerns in the da especially with siasi issues yeah um is that you know some of the Hadith and and the verses from and others that we've discussed here it is
63:00 - 63:30 nearly polarized as obey the ruler or yeah it's not like that and it's not it really isn't like that like and even if you look at what happened I mean let's take Egypt right um when during the Arab Spring when Mubarak fell and others these were not people that were looking to kill him off these were people who took to the streets peacefully right and and and wanted reform um thean in Jordan from my understanding did not want to remove Abdullah they wanted to want they wanted some constitutional reforms
63:30 - 64:00 rights for the for the for the subjects exactly so so here we're not even talking about Muslims that took to the streets to remove the Tyrant that had been ruling for them for decades it was looking at constitutional ref it was looking at employment opportunities it was looking at education policies fiscal policies you know and and in the issue standard of Life Improvement econom necess I mean so the look look putting Libya and Syria aside because it became a survival issue there life and death life and death the Muslims had to it was
64:00 - 64:30 a survival issue there but I guess the point I'm trying to make is the dangers of unnuanced or right um and Talking listen remember this and this is a good point that you raised about the work and knowing about you know the reality on the ground these groups of brothers are far attached oh sorry detached from the reality that's happening in on theground M and I'll give you an example the brother back and forth with when I mentioned the name
64:30 - 65:00 uhar he didn't know anything about him that's Madness so when you're trying to defend your godfather and you don't know about ha when he tried to Ral against KFI and when he got captured and then he got mysteriously shipped to America and you don't know about this but yet you defend such a person so when it comes to like you mentioned Syria look how eloquently you P about the 2013 you you you follow the developments on the ground like Syria for example I follow M I follow had Abdullah I follow various independent journalists on the ground to find out what's going on in Syria you
65:00 - 65:30 know these brothers they don't know what's going on they haven't got the foggus yet they want to it's politicalized isn't it their whole manh is based on the political Direction and they ain't got a clue of what's going on on my dear brother I'll tell you something as well just just just to kind of like just to add to what you said I mean this this this conversation about and rebellion and obedience can get so messy it can get so messy you can even turn around and say well how can Saudi be in a position to
65:30 - 66:00 support um CCE when ce's military K was in itself a against within itself but then the gold po changed you know why the gold po changed because he had the yeah there you go but then but then just now add this let's add another caveat just say and this is talking from a from the classical Islamic point of view not you know this neoy Pudo saly position just the power okay I ain't got the power I grabbed 20 men I'm not calling for don't try take this and say just
66:00 - 66:30 calling for I ain't got it yeah they ARG CeCe had it well CeCe you got your whole Foundation is about not doing obey him privately Etc but you got I ain't got the and I Rebel I'm still not a from classical Islamic opinion of course I'm I'm from the I'm from the bat yeah and even with the bat they even said that even even that's got classification that's got classification because they said even if you Tred to take gazali said it yeah and who brings it said that those are two groups and
66:30 - 67:00 the second group is of two groups do you understand what I mean so now ask this ask yourself this question my brother Diddy why was this not brought to the public domain why because the issue isn't that black and it goes away from the political it go it goes and it's all political isn't it why do they bring all of these and all of these which I add I'm not against I am 40 but why are these different other opinions that are valid differences which According to Islamic texts with the's understanding
67:00 - 67:30 from the different M agrees with us but you've been disparaging Muslims based on criticizing the ruler by just your tongue how is that fair I mean let's just I mean I mean for our views and listeners let's even give some historical context right when the ums were overthrown by the abbasids and and I've written an extensive piece in Islam 21c is called um understanding the caliphate between romant romanticizing and cynicism so here I spoke about the abbasids they
67:30 - 68:00 they did against the what is that yeah it's but once they had removed the UMAS and established themselves through Force because we can't say what they did was prophetic but the thing is they did it by force they established them and and all the entities gave them the yeah when the Ottomans defeated the mums in Marik K yeah in KIRO in 1517 yeah people need to understand that between 1453 actually
68:00 - 68:30 not 145 between 1299 to 1517 the Ottomans never said they were once they had defeated the MLS forcibly abdicated mutl theii took him to isul gave him not a bad Soul living basically stuck it on him and then they announced was it so so the point I'm trying to make here is that here we have some very rich Islamic um you know historical examples of where there were cuz one could argue
68:30 - 69:00 bro that the Ottomans that you committ against the existing Abbasid household who the mumluk were protecting but what was the otoman justification that the mumluk leadership had become corrupt that they weren't ruling by Islam and they were weak and they were weak and they were and and they became a vulnerability for the enemies of Islam that was their musl calculus exactly and they moved on them were they declared by the of course no of course of course no they had The Obedience of the um for nearly 400 years so you see the nuances you can see the conditions the you can see how it's categorized how the the um
69:00 - 69:30 the powers on the ground meaning do you think that didn't have with them at the time of course they did I'm just saying let's throw out there oh they weren't pseudo salais let's put it that way but they didn't have it they weigh their their pros and cons okay you know what there's the Crusade cuz remember um the Crusaders were still not going on as they did before but still excursions by the the Russian Empire you obiously you threat is was always being threatened yeah so so what what do you do so theas
69:30 - 70:00 made a calculated decision said you know what or even if just say they did it for Empire just just throw it at there it's regardless they did it for Islam you could say oh but they did it because they did it for Islam but no just say throw it at there they just wanted their power yeah from a secular point of view it's not even no no and even if we were to say the Abbasid Who removed the Which is far earlier on and we would have to assume that around 750 calendar time that they had a far more richer understanding because it was much more closer to the time of the salaf right
70:00 - 70:30 that even when they removed the um from power that was a that was bro do you understand should I give you some classical opinion on this like we talk Top This is sorry M by sorry and I'll just translate it he says the rebels now we're talking about the rebels cuz we're on the topic of the Ottomans going out and taking over the mik at the time he says the rebels are those Muslims who have gone against the head of state even if he's oppressive and the rulers are just according to Al
70:30 - 71:00 however transmit from the majority of the Sha because was sha he says the majority of the Sha transmited the majority that which is in meaning im's book that the rebels okay that they are Rebels only listen to this if the head of state is just so what if the head of state is not just I'm just it's not not Reb not Rebels before the FK let's carry on he said likewise this is a criteria we just
71:00 - 71:30 mentioned in which is byf so now we got president from the Sal now let's carry on the evidence now about now this this we want to be transparent and we want to be very fair in our transmission of course now he mentioned the evidence that is cited is a statement of the author IM in the commentary of sah Muslim that rebelling against the head of state is impermissible according to the consensus of the Muslims now IM no I think was in the 7 or 8th Century okay and he did site an listen to this so is
71:30 - 72:00 in the nth Century so if there's St by we that would be binding wouldn't he into the nth Century because it's after everyone's agree listen to this rebelling against the head of state at fighting them is impermissible according to the of the Muslim consens Muslim however this consensus has been disputed why so it's disputed but why is it disputed because of the rebelling of Al Hussein against yazid and the rebellion of uh Zu against the Abdullah abdah abdah sorry ABD against ABD and they were both supported by a huge
72:00 - 72:30 number of the Sal there you go classical classical we G classical yeah M and Dilly's opinion are you know the Tim we've given you classical sour that the rebels are what are only Rebels if the head of state is just so wife is not just yeah moving towards kind of uh the concluding topic of today's podcast uh and it's still very much linked to everything that we've discussed and that is the birth of
72:30 - 73:00 theab movement or the early movement or whatever various words people use yeah it's still collected isn't it yeah so I mean talking on the issue of talking about the issue of rebellion and and and legitimacy of rulers Etc um there was uh in the middle to late 18th century there was an alliance formed yes uh by a called Muhammad ABD wahab and the AL household right and this was no doubt a
73:00 - 73:30 theological and political movement you cannot deny this very politically motivated and which then transpired into the first rebellion of 1811 of the AL against the the ottoman caliphate and that's what it was let's let's not deny it it was it was against a legitimate standing caliphate with their flaws and with their errors with theira but we know this that even after this was oh tyrannical said
73:30 - 74:00 issues there will be a amongst you and then Allah will raise it and then there will be there will be like a succession King no so no no so so so here we have to now look at this issue where many brothers from that kind of persuasion will say well hold on here yeah uh the the Ottomans were a bunch of grave
74:00 - 74:30 worshiping kind of very very yeah yeah you know mash up mash up AA mash up theology mash up everything no no different to the pagans yeah basically in essence right so therefore they're not I don't hear these brothers cite these things but they mention it it's a clear justification yeah it's it's it's basically uh setting the basis for what you're going to end up saying what ends up happening then is obviously we have to then look at this issue of the 1811 rebellion was their
74:30 - 75:00 advice and N given to the khif inul uh what was the kuur that was committed by um um the khif of of the otan state do you know who that was by the way at that time 1811 um well I know that Muhammad Ali Pasha viy yeah he he was he was basically the kind of we'll get we'll get to that he he was the de facto Governor but he was kind of a power in and of himself but he was still by essal part of the Ottoman State um but the point I'm trying to make here is that many would argue that no the AL did not
75:00 - 75:30 commit Rebellion they did not do and it certainly wasn't justified by the theological and legal position of Muhammad Abdul wahab now I find this very problematic I find it problematic for the following reasons number one I have spoken to many of my teachers in Istanbul uh who have access to ottoman documents and remember this we're talking 1811 here the ottom the ottoman kept things in document right from Al's time yeah and I was I inquired many
75:30 - 76:00 times was there any letters from any emissaries from the najad area right or from daa these places yeah yeah were there were there any kind of letters to the khif you know advising him on his many ills or the state of the um in come back to we the only Muslims on the plan exctly and all of this kind of stuff they couldn't find nothing there you there you go there's nothing on record to say that emeries or letters came as n and advise from from the N area telling the Ottomans to fix up number one number
76:00 - 76:30 two what then yeah so number two what also then Justified the many raids that took place against the huaj who were coming from Kira who are come from aam who are come from istan to make Haj and they were murdered their women were taken as slaves these are Muslims yeah because why they were gra worshiping um yes so let's have that discussion let's have that discussion and you know what this is going to be the icing of the cake and and and a lot of people ain't
76:30 - 77:00 going to like what I'm going to say because we've been fed a narrative which all due respect is covered with distortions and hypocrisy number one Muhammad ABD wahab himself and I take his work in terms of creed you know the basic theological position that he had I agree with but from his methodological position in terms of takir and how he went like a warlord there's no other word to describe it was no different than the phenomenon of D that we see today and he said that's a big claim it's a massive claim and I stand by it we'll assess that in a bit we will assess that so
77:00 - 77:30 let's now go back and I'm sure you got time my brother did I do and uh pop under the coke for me and for you always come on um so let's start up and let's go into the early life of Muhammad ABD wahab because we got a lot of time let's not fast forward let's present context which they don't do and we're going to do that today Muhammad ABD wahab was born okay Ina and when he was born he was taught by his father the early interaction that he had remember he was living in an area where the timans didn't really have any
77:30 - 78:00 control let's be fair yeah they had they had they had influence but the tribes were really ruling and timans really had their eyes over these particular rulers this is what you call in English suarin so so what the Ottomans do is they they have authority but they they they'll give that power to local tribes exactly and they report back yeah they report back exactly whatever Muhammad ABD wahab went to Bas now Bas was under the control of thean Empire that time the European col uh colonialist didn't really arrive until like the middle of the 18th century if not near the end so
78:00 - 78:30 when Muhammed ABD wahab went to Bas he seen as like he calls likes to call it you know mush and you know pagans and he SE great worshippers yeah Madness so he saw some Madness there and that really shaped up his thinking I know are we disputing that Madness wasn't happen no I'm not disputing that I'm not disputing that and we'll get to the the atrocities and we'll get to the accusations as well because it's par to each other isn't it the accusations from the and what was taking place and then what resulted as
78:30 - 79:00 you like to call it the raids Etc Muhammad ABAB returned back and that's when he wrote his first book that was his first book because what he experienced in Bas there was a leader and pay attention to this name called B pay attention to this name listening when he started coming he was really his da wasn't really accepted by the people so Muhammad ABD wahab had no protection he had no protection many people opposed him and gave him
79:00 - 79:30 protection now this binar just to get out there he a tribal leader he's a tribal leader but this m yeah was killed by Muhammed ABAB but we'll get to that later gave protection he demolished the grave of z z was the brother of and his grave was prominent in that area he demolished it so the people obviously don't get me wrong there were some mashup practices that were happening some clear unlam practices that were happening they were emotionally attached what the hell's going on here kicked him out on your way
79:30 - 80:00 son okay let's skip a bit now he's get he's getting passed from Pillar To Post he enters into the territory of Muhammad ibin okay this is where it's going to get hot he gets into his territory and a lot of people don't know this it was his wife that encouraged mammed to meet Muhammad ABD it was his wife and this is written in Anan ma go check and all of this in part three part three is coming Lads even to prove that Muhammad ABD wab is the forefather of
80:00 - 80:30 Isis and I'll even go further before I get to the story that what they're following today is a heretical salafia it's not the same as Muhammad ABAB it's heretical brother it's heretical it's no way connected to what Muhammad ABD wahab was promoting and the Early N it's a heretical movement believe me it's no way connected but I will say okay fine so so so that meeting happened yeah I was going to get to the that meeting happened when you when you read the the exchange between them two Romeo and Juliet aot oh
80:30 - 81:00 I'm going to get to in part three I was reading I was crying yeah no it was a match made match in heaven not obviously Juliet or Romeo didn't poison themselves but well it melt the heart it melt the heart anyway what happened then Muhammad ABD wahab this is now wrote letters to the tribes in central Arabia yeah calling them back to and this this that now naturally Muhammad ABD wahab believes that's it
81:00 - 81:30 it's done I've done my and then he started he started the Jihad okay because he was fighting but it's also important brother I have to keep saying this there is no records currently that exists and none that I've read from my extensive reading into ottoman history no no I'm talking about that even when those began with those different various Arab tribes within the peninsula there were no letters there were no letters and he was politically motivated brother there was
81:30 - 82:00 no letters there was no you know when we hear very commonly give the don't criticize the ruler give n her privately hold him by the hands tell him nicely there was none of this none of that that okay so then they started pillaging tribes started pillaging killing slaughtering and I've done a two-part series on it you you've watched it so Muhammad ABD wahab declared those around him to be musri and politics Muhammad ABD wahab met Muhammad in 1165 and it's documented in the book that was 1165 18 oh you're talking I'm so that
82:00 - 82:30 would have been I don't know the H 1165 from 1165 all the way to 12:06 they pillaged they slaughtered was killed under the pretext that they were mus now they argue I've heard this argument now even from the ones who were quite mellow by the way because the spiritual Godfathers Muhammad ABAB they got to defend him at all cost you know what they say it was his abak for okay well let me let me just nip that one in the B first first and foremost yeah
82:30 - 83:00 those grave worshiping mus who were actually realistically actually were Muslims uh they may have been misguided they but but to kind of have a generic and to excommunicate them in such vast numbers you have to remember that abak when he dealt with the of the time that's because he did not differentiate between the Salah and the zaka these are people who are paying zaka to the otoman state these are people who are paying they were fulfill thousand years in Islam by the way and were recently and there were people who and they were given allegiance to false prophets at
83:00 - 83:30 that time time well Madness just some Madness but the the the argument I have heard is that this is this was muhammd Wah's based on what was apparent uh in terms of practices that become very prevalent in the peninsula okay uh but even then I find it so difficult to understand how that could justify the death and destruction that took place okay let me give you one example to to
83:30 - 84:00 highlight the massacres and like i' like to call it him being the forefather of Isis let me just give you one example so shock you to your call from their own books from their own testimony there was a tribe two tribes in fact and they were M as as they were cuz Muhammad ABAB and the early NAIA were the only Muslims on the planet and we're going to get to 1811 we're going to get to that as well so don't worry about we're going to do cuz what we want to do we want to show you the reality on the grand juding his time and the backdrop and the backdrop so you can't separate him from the atrocities that happened after his death cuz he laid down the foundation of
84:00 - 84:30 course you understand the same way you could say Zar we lay down the foundation for Isis exactly yeah so Muhammad ABD wahab there was a tribe that came and they were obviously they were so they wanted to enter Islam so Muhammad ABD got very happy okay got very happy and saidah alhamdulillah so he said okay he sent this one person with him and said go teach him the and now the new Muslims we need to teach them cuz we're the only Muslims they have to learn Islam our Islam you know we are the Muslim so they got to learn the Islam according to us they went to that tribe this person went
84:30 - 85:00 to that tribe taught them that the so naturally speaking if someone teaches the you would be upon Islam and upon yeah the dean yeah six months later they apost God knows how they just apost you know what happened Abdul aiz Muhammad so he's the son of Muhammad who is the sonin-law of Muhammad ABAB who married his daughter he sent someone and slaughtered this tribe and he says in the
85:00 - 85:30 book there was loads of killing so they naturally been slaughtered now they go look we want to enter Islam again you know we've been slaughtered guess what happens he brings them back abdulaziz who's the son-in-law Muhammed ABD wahab brings these tribes whoever alive at that time and said you want to enter Islam they go yes we want to enter into Islam he goes all right you know you need to do you need to pay me 3,000 R and because you can't afford it you have to pay me a th000 up front so you trying to tell me now where's this cited this is in no by go check it
85:30 - 86:00 out see my video that's one example now Muhammad ABD was alive at that time he sent the person to teach him how did they suddenly become six months later why did they just worship did they see cuz remember there was no social media at that time so how did they become was there another letter like we were talking about the letters was there another letter sent to them and saying hold on yeah you become again it's very likely they would have received some news of yeah hear say or something that's happened yeah or could and again it could be that they weren't worshiping trees and Stones they just basically
86:00 - 86:30 wanted to expand they thought you know NE perfect opportunity let's go so so so you'll even find it in Islam Q&A um sheid I believe released yeah I mean I believe he even he I I I think this is perhaps one of the best positions you can possibly take if you come from that persuasion he reaffirmed that the Ottomans were indeed a legitimate caliphate not that but they had theological positions which they allowed to become prevalent in certain parts of the state which is
86:30 - 87:00 without ignorance and yeah yeah which which without that a shadow of a doubt was heretical according to um that kind of theological understanding right but he posited something that look uh is it or how do you pronounce it yeah so he said and was never under the control of the Ottomans so it wasn't in that regard but I guess the point I'm trying to make is that because it was an expansionist state of it was going to be
87:00 - 87:30 at some point lay the foundation like I said before to 1811 1811 now Muhammad ABD wahab died in 1206 again 1792 you you keep the good and I'll keep the so like I mentioned before Abdul aiz was the son-in-law of Muhammad ABD wahab who married his daughter yeah abdulaziz had a son uh I think he's called this guy makes Abu Bakr bagdadi put puts him to shame we're going to get to him yeah so you guys know about this let me tell you
87:30 - 88:00 they know about it Muhammad ABD passed away now you do know when they went to um Iraq and they went to Bas and they went tobala you know what they did there don't you yeah Massac bro Massac even to the point in their own books you know what it says that they slaughtered a known Market they went into a market in Bas and slaughtered the people to the point that people want to to to escaped from the massacre they jumped in the river and drowned yeah that's in their own Works bro they're proud of it so and
88:00 - 88:30 you're defend and then you're trying to tell me that he's not the forefather of Isis or early the forefather of Isis let's carry on even further Mecca like you said ABD has passed away now the reason why I'm not going into in depth because I'm doing part three so I'm going to present it in detail with the books as I do you know when they went to Mecca and besieged Mecca there was a d at that time there was an actual D so they had the pathways blocked going north towards Syria and South towards Yemen so they no food was coming in and you know sies
88:30 - 89:00 take time don't they course so no food was going in no food was oh sorry they couldn't go out to to obviously go to other areas to to to eat and there's a drive so naturally they're going to die of starvation the historian says that they besieged them to the point that they were eating dogs to stay survive to to survive when they entered into Mecca who was the the the ruler Muhammad ab's grandson or great grandson Abdul Muhammed yes he wrote cuz who the the
89:00 - 89:30 hij at that time on the utans were their legislative uh was upon the Han for the and they had the alar family looking after him exactly so when they when they entered they got the uh now before then again I'm fast forwarding they went to Syria as well they went to Oman they went to bahin and they went to various areas doing what they do best similar to the their four to the modern day of Isis so they're slaughtered Slaughter slaughtered this obviously is under duress and I don't even want to get to
89:30 - 90:00 his brother yet but I'm fast forwarding they made them write a fatwa I've got it in my phone but I don't want to present it because I'm going to show them that they made the meccans the muties of Mecca write that we what they did the early the victors the the conquerors conquerors what they did in Syria Egypt was okay to slaughter them and make their blood Halal and take their wealth because they were yeah there you go so there you go so I'm just saying wait for it so so this now what what what brother [ __ ] just described and what we kind of just briefly spoke
90:00 - 90:30 about it's very very ugly what happened when we're talking about Muslim massacres right and this is a reformist movement that that grew out from the kind of very isolated areas of what is modern day Saudi Arabia that some of the theological positions that we hear now which is very commonly associated to that persuasion and that movement about advising rulers about not not evening a word against them about not about not Rebellion about you you all this kind of stuff which has become
90:30 - 91:00 very synonymous with their da when you look at the is the holy gra and if you look at the Historical roots of how this movement be it was actually founded upon let's not even talk about let's not even talk about the modern third Saudi State how they were founded we're not even get to that but what happened when they um so the KH slaughtering so they took Mecca they took all the they took om man and the timate Empire at that time was you know the news got to them hold on we got these Bandits who
91:00 - 91:30 are just slaughtering people what's going on so Muhammad Ali Basha sent his son from Egypt ibraim B and T BHA to go sort him out now what I what happened during that incursion into ET we're Mass we're Massac no doubt about it doubt but one thing I find hypocritical is how can you cry and complain from 1165 to all the way to 12:32 you guys were committed massacres upon massacres upon massacr I'm not justifying what ibraim bash did and Tusan bash but I'm saying is you
91:30 - 92:00 can't cry wolf you understand bro for my understanding um ibraim Pasha and and his son and and and and and the and the squad which he sent out to address uh the NJ movement the Rebellion uh from my understanding that there was even moments where they were given an opportunity to renew their Bay to the Ottomans there you go I didn't know that yeah there was even an opportunity that said you guys have caused your death and destruction um there is an opportunity before we move on you to come and renew
92:00 - 92:30 your B and and and to renew so they refused obviously of course they refused um do you know what happened to the ruler what happened to him when they finally entered into you know what they did to him they cut off his hands they cut off his tongue and and and and and obviously that's brutal no doubt about it but the argument here is the the massacres and I've counted you know and let's be fair I haven't counted you know very thoroughly cuz I read through 1165 to 1232 from the top of my head now which I've done that video about four or five months ago I counted easily up to
92:30 - 93:00 at least 10,000 debts from their own testimony could be more now here it begs the question now that Muhammad ABD wahab laid the foundations for this early movement early the rulings are in the books like plentiful what they do they deceive you as well you know the technicalities are very good muham says the one that worships the the son under grave of Abdul Kad what we say to that is that was at the early part of his da
93:00 - 93:30 you know when he got a bit Brazen and he got a bit more he got loads of power and he got support Muhammad my dear brother I'll be honest with you now yeah you know when you you know when we look at the life of a Believer the is and the life of the believer and we know the the Mak of this um to say that an entire Town's people are committing shik and they are worshiping the graves of this Pious person whoever it may be and then now to
93:30 - 94:00 go and carry out a massacre and enslave their women take their anim take their animals their livestock their belongings to now justify this as something that's islamically permissible but was the argument this is what shocking they go M and abak fought the so then you can't argue when say it's a Madness and I think it was she kabani who was the former Imam ofab said that he admitted he said you can't because you know what I say to this you know when they argue especially the the the Neo salais meaning the slaves and
94:00 - 94:30 the rulers the was papers when they say the if you criticize them how can you not criticize Muhammad ABD wahab he is the forefather of this methodology IM sh IM sh I'm going to get to that in part three we could go on and on even his own brother he followed a movement which was basically similar to George Bush either you're with us or against us and if you're not with us then we know what
94:30 - 95:00 happened I think you should being I mean I'm going to State this anyway for my part I mean I I don't know about your position but no one's disputing muham ABD Wah's knowledge not doubt no one's disputing even some of his fantastic and championed work on matters of and stuff like this we're not very very simplistic very very you know uh beneficial insightful and I take his works when he comes to that yeah absolutely and and and the issue here is rather a theological basis that was set out which then became a political movement which
95:00 - 95:30 basically made the life and the blood of Muslims Halal and where Rebellion actually became became the thing it it was it was the their modern state today and in the past because when they went out in the early part when they didn't have much Empire that was class as well of course of course absolutely why didn't they obey the ruler or whatever just say for example the tribe of Hur yeah why didn't I'm going to get to that in part three why didn't they write to him and take him by the hand and advise
95:30 - 96:00 him privately and because remember weren't doing just remember that point he was not doing or so what happened to all the about obeying the ruler and this is I guess what I'm saying I think the entire podcast was kind of channeled in on this inconsistency hypocrisy inconsistency double standards because I've always found that whil calling those to celebrate the date of birth of the Prophet Salli wasallam as and these kind of things but you have no problem with those who celebrate the Saudi Independence Day uh an Independence Day
96:00 - 96:30 of a state which was founded upon you want to touch on the modern State let's touch T now we open up the kind of so the modern State here obviously was something that was practically given birth by the British by but we're going to dwell into it to the point that I've done a video One it called the origin of the Saudi Kingdom and I went into their own media Resource Center so it's not bro [ __ ] conspiracies because let's be fair as well you find many from the suia and let's put this out there when they mention Muhammad ABD they come out with
96:30 - 97:00 ridiculous conspiracy for example I've heard Muhammad ABD wahab supported lawence of Arabia I've heard that completely two different ER two different eras not even connected but because they they got this partisan and fanaticism that the truth is basically blinded to whereas me coming from a a background who takes Muhammad B ABD wahb's Works who benefited from Muhammad ABD wahab works and even encourages those to read those books I'm being extremely fair and partial and said he's not above criticism he's not above criticism but let's go to the modern State now there was a tribe and
97:00 - 97:30 you're very familiar with history and you'll agree with me during the uh course of the first Saudi state which got demolished then the second state they Rose their ugly head again and the second state got demolished there was a dynasty called rashidia Al Rashid were two they were the the main ottoman family of the Allies Central Arabia so they were ruling that part Muhammad ABD Muhammad ABD basically was exiled to Kuwait y okay he was in Kuwait now what happened was he
97:30 - 98:00 wanted leadership so bad and wanted to rest because remember he's from the tribal you know uh he's got the tribal connection so he's got what we call respect he's got a lot of clout because of his connection to the early so what he wanted was power he was a slave for power he was dreaming he was begging for power so what he did was he raided into his first incursion now number one straight up straight up straight up they
98:00 - 98:30 W yeah where was the letter there was no where was grabing by the ruler by the hand there number one he he conquered riy then after conquering many many like they call him what's they called the areas surrounding and the surrounding areas his power or his his his Zeal for power grew his think blood and now I've got this dynasty you know the the from The Offspring of the Muhammad so he wanted power so during
98:30 - 99:00 that time 1882 1883 the British uh were very much you know influential in Egypt and in Kuwait Y and in the strengths of Yemen as well I think the Aden they had that as well and obviously they were in the the subcontinent the British Empire was basically Empire like they said the the Sun that Rose from it never never the empire was basically so vast that the the Sun never set on the British Empire
99:00 - 99:30 so it was vast yeah there was an individual by the name of Sir Percy Cox sir Percy Cox and I call him sir with respect because your godfather treated him with respect so sir Percy Cox got involved and got and uh basically had connections with abdulaziz so what happened ABD so pery Cox sent an individual by the name of Captain William Shakespeare and not talking about the PO the meeting may have been poetic his influence was very poetic poetic justice but he sent sir Captain
99:30 - 100:00 William Shakespeare now sir Captain William Shakespeare was the one who was the brains on the on the ground and there was a treaty called the Treaty of Darren and we we all know about that due to this connection the birth of the Saudi State or the third Saudi state was born one number two two they they cooperated with the occupiers of Muslim lands they did
100:00 - 100:30 that's number two number three when Abdul Muhammad obviously living off the the name of his his his tribe meaning because of the connection he had a movement uh which supported him because of that thean movement the not to get mistaken with Muslim was a tribal a tribal fighting force fighting force who was simpl Believers very sincere very a and they they thought of themselves as if this is
100:30 - 101:00 what're going expand Islam as the sahaba did they were very simple people yeah so so so so they envisioned obviously a which was more Orthodox and they thought he was the one that was going to be spearheading thisfor the British stopped them on the North there you go you took the world mind so when they expanded the British Empire goes look mate put your breakes on calm your horses calm your horses little son you get it you're our puppy you're our little pet stroke him you tail waggle and they go stop there so thean naturally obviously said okay now we're going to Iraq now our time to go CU they were warriors who would
101:00 - 101:30 according to them was spreading a version of and because everyone else was to certain extent so ABD basically said no it's not happening I heard an account where he he he killed him off yeah he killed him off but there's an account where one of thean he was telling them about the British where they had planes and uh he was explaining it to him look they got planes they got this so they said look it's a lot again we don't want to get into the a actually think but they said look okay there's planes and stuff remember that's a new phenomenon back then you know huge like things in the sky and you're looking and dropping
101:30 - 102:00 bmps like for us now like it's Concord yeah this private jet but back then it's like an in a master a science scientific you know invention that none of us ever saw or that time anyway so they said all right then but it's Allah above those planes that's how simplistic they were they it's a lot above those ples they go he goes yeah he goes no problem let's carry on he basically knew that these people ain't going to stop yeah so the only way and they recognize his treachery they recognize his treachery
102:00 - 102:30 they obviously eventually clocked on that this guy all of the statements about and Islam and you know Quan and it's all lip service it was all just to get his uh Dynasty that or what was what his ancestors had before and you have to remember this reminds me of the Prophet when Abu sufyan went to heras and he wanted obviously I don't know the full context obviously why he went but he asked him a few questions you know the Hadith and he go about the testimony at the test and he goes has did he have did he wasam did he have a kingdom
102:30 - 103:00 before him no and when he answered all those questions he goes no the reason why I asked you that is because maybe he would want what his ancestors had before and then the Hadith ended by saying I will wash his feet but he didn't he presented Islam to his people and his people didn't accept but this is the point so thean got like you said got destroyed so the same people look at the treachery of this man the same people that gave him or even fought for him and gave their life and blood for this state he ended up finishing and align with the British I
103:00 - 103:30 would even go as far as to say and just bring the podcast to a close for that very quick his brief it's brief um I would even go FAS to say that this has been an ongoing struggle between the Saudi political establishment and the Saudi religious establishment uh in that every other year or there has always been a consistent level of within Saudi Arabia since its Inception who have always kind of played this role that we really should be doing
103:30 - 104:00 more like this is not right we should be expanding this um who have supported Jihad in various countries Afghanistan shishan Bosnia various places I believe that Saudi will and always will have since it since for as long as it remains it will always always have a struggle between those people of knowledge who still believe in that dream of Muhammad
104:00 - 104:30 Abdul wahab and ala from the very day dot okay that they still believe that there should be a fulfillment of that Vision but the harsh and brutal and reality is that the sa political sa is not interested in this they're interested in their own hegemonic Rule and that of their pay masters in Washington and formerly London um and you know and soon to be Tel Aviv yeah it's very soon to be given everything given everything that we've discussed
104:30 - 105:00 and there's a lot we've discussed yeah history politics Theology and as I mentioned earlier I knew this podcast weren't going to be short no it wasn't going to be I planned and I prepared what would your advice be to those brothers and sisters uh whether they be at universities whether they may be aspiring tab um du um Speakers Corner every facet of where this da has has influenced the minds of many cuz remember it's backed this da has been backed by billions of dollars 100% billions of
105:00 - 105:30 petrol dollars has pushed a particular narrative especially after the wake of the first Iraq war onward what would your advice be to those on kind of just waking up a little bit and kind of well you know it's for me anyway is that I am not the one yeah that wants to be the source of or the bearer of bad news like there this there that my whole ambition is to create Harmony and love
105:30 - 106:00 and respect between Muslims because that's what we need Unity the solution and all to the DU or the and those who are studying universities like you uh you know like you mentioned is that do not become blind to the truth and do not become you know his bees to the point that you're to exclude yourself from Muslims based upon political allegiances don't don't be that brother that just
106:00 - 106:30 follows the crowd don't be a sheep you know especially the this is this is the main The Croc yeah the DU look I I honestly believe that we want to bring Islam into people's lives and show them that Islam is a solution and to be proud of Islam and to be proud to be Muslims Don't Fear the blame of the blam don't be mentally canalized you know be proud of your Islam that's why I'm look I'm 35 years old you know what I mean I want people to see someone like me and say look yeah we want to be aspiring
106:30 - 107:00 Muslims but to I say that those who are studying in the universities where the dust is going into their nose and they're being schooled to a certain way of thought don't let your tools that you learn blind you and be politically aligned to those who to a certain extent paid for your education because I've actually heard this my dear brother that Brothers have come back and they've seen the reality because you have to remember sa Saudi Arabia does beautiful work when it comes to um facilitating the students
107:00 - 107:30 from all over the world and and we have to give them praise and credit for that like they do with the but what happens is and I've heard it with my own ears that when they see the reality and they see their hypocrisy and their double standards and their you know lack of sincerity this the people that try to call you out who are the who have a responsibility to call this out they turn around and the people that are you know slaves to the rules say didn't they pay for your education so there an element of gratefulness so it's like you are an absolute hypocrite
107:30 - 108:00 because they paid for your education so what it means is that because they paid for my education and giving me Islamic I sub I have to be slaves to them for the rest of my life dat to them yeah and dat to them until I finally wake up and unfortunately this is something that we do commonly see we do see this I'm not saying all of those who go to Medina or all of those who study in the Riad or whever it may be where the institutes or those universities are are prevalent that they fall into this but believe me the vast majority do so I'm saying use your knowledge and be a source of
108:00 - 108:30 benefit not a source of Discord and that's my final message and to me you know again I'm I'm a brother that's you know bit outspoken and you know I love I love to you know banter a bit but on in all seriousness it's not a joke and I should I I should be held accountable for when I go you know left or right and I and I use offensive terms but I'm dealing with and I honestly believe a very very cancerous methodology and like naadi said that in order for us to have Unity stay away from these people and
108:30 - 109:00 that's my final message um let me just give some concluding advice as well brothers and sisters we spoke about various issues today um and in fact no two three hour podcast will ever do justice to the years uh of work and human hours spent by uh people of knowledge in the in these areas areas pertaining to the legitimacy of ruler the establish of Allah's Dean on Earth the Shar um who Rebellion obedience these are very
109:00 - 109:30 very you know big and deep and extensive issues and it's not black and white as you seen from the conversation that me and brother [ __ ] has um is a very nuance and a very contextualized conversation and one that's taken place over a millennial of our scholarship however that said this issue of supporting tyranny and oppression or turning a blind eye or you legalizing legalizing it just justifying it this stuff I think a
109:30 - 110:00 someone with a cursory understanding of Islam and a cursory understanding of the and the lives of the especially the you will know that this stuff is not from Islam of course not you can you know you know we know from the very famous Hadith I believe it is from correct me when the sah the prophet what is the best type of jihad the prophet said against thean exactly but um I guess the point I'm trying to make is brothers and sisters you know when it comes to the lives and
110:00 - 110:30 the security of the Believers when it comes to Allah's Dean being implemented or not being implemented these are very very major issues right and I hope that from this conversation I've had with brother [ __ ] that you know we've not presented a black and white a binary kind of conversation we're trying to in fact demonstrate that it is such a g such a vast area of discussion debate um where there was even difference amongst the salaf right yeah and there even sahab even difference between the sahaba
110:30 - 111:00 um one would even go as far as to say that there was even a difference between Abu Bakr and Omar with regards to they're fighting the people who testified the shahada so I would be very very cautious if to fully subscribe to any kind of dawa or any kind of political message that says it requires from the Believers to be absolutely blind followers and Defenders of tyranny and oppression but at the same time I would equally caution against those who are calling for uh Raising Arms uh and
111:00 - 111:30 and that's why I want to add as well I'm not calling for and it's better not to do it I have always maintained that stance the sanctity of the life of the believer is Paramount as is the preservation of the dean and these are things which are very much normative uh and and things which we need to all kind of aspire to learn uh so we can maneuver uh in these various issues um that is the end of the podcast but not for brother [ __ ] not for brother [ __ ] no no no I'm I'm still ticking okay you're still ticking um so we take inspiration
111:30 - 112:00 from the sahabah uh in the way we conclude this podcast uh so when the early generals went out uh in theat and the campaigns uh what were the three things that they used should tell the people before they entered okay so first they used to tell the people to invite them to Islam yeah and if they accept then obviously take it from them and they classes Believers the second is that they pay the Jia yeah what the third one and the third one is that safe it's a sword between us and you n so we
112:00 - 112:30 take that inspiration and we've implemented into the podcast but obviously because it's blood brothers and everyone we Muslims in it we can't have those conditions to Believers so uh we kind of refined it uh and made it more brotherly a brotherly three conditions yeah so you can obviously being bingi myself I'm Pakistani okay uh I'm going to make you three offers go on so you have to either try a delicacy which is very common amongst bengalis and that is a bar and suari though pakistanis have it as well yeah we're
112:30 - 113:00 not free from it bro okay or you have to try Mr nuger paste which is very spicy uh or an arm wrestle with me put it this way I'm going to be driving back to Birmingham so if I have the bar I'm going to be a bit tipsy yeah yeah so I don't want that but it's a permissible type just a course of course I'm I'm not saying M I'm not saying don't get me wrong I don't want to be I don't want to be you know there is a type of PA which I would probably say is even Mak impermissible it's the one that's with dry tobacco and I was going to give you m you sure you're trying you're [ __ ] me or
113:00 - 113:30 something no no never that okay or there's Mr Naga which is listen there's no point having an arm wrestle with you so why those three conditions or the third one's just irrelevant brother a waste of time honestly so I'll do number two the paste yeah okay well I'm telling you if I end up breaking down or no you'll be fine okay oh my God okay call this is uh our Bali viewers and will know exactly what this
113:30 - 114:00 is Mr Naga it's a Mr Naga pce I love it bro I love it why is it called Mr Naga if you don't want me to ask the Naga is name of the spice itself oh n it's the name of the chili itself Mr Naga is just the pasted version the AAR version does Mr Naga believe Inu or not that's what I want to know um well he definitely made from the conventional spice itself so he so he exited The Obedience of the spice of the spice itself and made it into a so that's my sort of person okay so let's go all right
114:00 - 114:30 then is that is that enough to do me damage or what see of your face being a Pakistani background I'm kind of aost or climatized to spices so whil it is spicy it's not doing me any harm really I could take another spoon of that take another spoon
114:30 - 115:00 [Music] thenly I'm cool bro are you sure I'm cool I can feel the tingle don't get me wrong it's there okay but it's not like where give me three give me three they get bigger and bigger I can hear now the third ones get into me okay
115:00 - 115:30 alhamdulillah now the third one is getting to me but I could even force a fourth one no I could force a fourth one y go on y I told pist make it biger make I'm trying to save something myself no I'll be honest I could probably take a fif n I'm not I'm not giving you a fifth I'm telling you I'm not look look look look listen you p is empty it is empty have I taken any with C or no no
115:30 - 116:00 you haven't you you you paid the juw yet and your Jews more than you paid four or five have I done for a year Advan payments yeah yeah you're done for fine you're fine brah look look I'm not I'm cool trust me am am I look have I have I done that common you know uh when you're feeling it have I done that no no no you haven't I'm quite don't get me wrong I'm not acting as if he hasn't affected me but he hasn't affected me that bad you're pretty cool I'm cool am eyes water you're smashed it you smashed is out there if I could take Mr Naga you guys are no
116:00 - 116:30 problem honor thank you very much for having me brothers and sisters and that is all for today's podcast mrag gives his salum Salam um remember to subscribe to the five YouTube channel check bro [ __ ] out on YouTube uh the Youtube channel is name broh [ __ ] let's get him up 10K Milestone very quick in um like the video leave a comment share uh if you want to hear this podcast on AUD your channels then search The Mad mom looks and until next time
116:30 - 117:00 allum Blood Brothers podcast is a mad production