Committee of the Whole Meeting - Wednesday, May 7, 2025 - 9:30 a.m. - City of Richmond Hill

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In a recent city council meeting in Richmond Hill held on May 7, 2025, numerous important community updates and council announcements were discussed amidst agenda items primarily focused on enhancing community engagement and safety. Key highlights included a focus on celebrating Asian Heritage Month with a local exhibit and the significant discussions around the implementation of automated speed enforcement to enhance road safety. The meeting also navigated towards addressing the importance of council meeting attendance policies, showcasing the commitment of council members to community concerns and decisions affecting city life.

Highlights

Counselor Castro Louu commenced the meeting, welcoming everyone on a bright Wednesday morning. 🌞
Deputy Mayor Chen celebrated community volunteerism with weekend tree planting activities, uplifting local spirits. 🌲
The Asian Heritage Month exhibit, focusing on anti-Chinese discrimination history and cultural resilience, opened to the public. 🎏
Discussions on the pros and cons of automated speed cameras were driven by the need for road safety and community acceptance. 🚘
Counselors shared their appreciation for local events enhancing civic pride and community spirit, including Earth Week activities and Mother’s Day shoutouts. 🌎💐
Richmond Hill High School and local sports and charity events highlighted the community's vibrant, engaged youth and support networks. 🎓🏐

Key Takeaways

Richmond Hill embraces Asian Heritage Month with a special exhibit at the Heritage Center, highlighting the Chinese community's history and experiences in York Region. 🎉
Tree planting activities over the weekend have fostered community spirit, with council members actively participating. 🌳
Debates around automated speed enforcement reflect the community's concerns about road safety and the balance between enforcement and education. 🚦
Council members are firmly committed to improving city safety and community engagement through proactive measures and policies. 🤝
Efforts to keep council meetings personal by encouraging physical attendance, fostering transparency, and enhancing decision-making. 🏛️

Overview

The Richmond Hill Committee of the Whole meeting on May 7th was a vibrant showcase of the community's spirit and dedication. The meeting kicked off with announcements from Deputy Mayor Chen, who highlighted recent tree planting activities that not only beautified the neighborhood but also brought the community together in a shared goal. As the city celebrated Asian Heritage Month, the meeting underscored Richmond Hill’s commitment to acknowledging and learning from its diverse cultural landscapes.

In-depth discussions were held regarding automated speed enforcement measures, revealing a council divided by considerations of effectiveness versus community perception. The proposal to postpone these speed cameras highlighted the complexity of enforcing speed limits whilst balancing widespread public education efforts. Despite the challenges, the underlying motivation remained clear: improving road safety against the backdrop of diverse public opinion.

The meeting also touched on procedural ideas to enhance council transparency and accountability, particularly focusing on council members' attendance at meetings. The significance of maintaining a physical presence in council sessions stressed the value of genuine interaction and robust dialogue in city affairs, reflecting a collective commitment to both community engagement and diligent policymaking.

Chapters

00:00 - 09:00: Call to Order and Announcements The chapter begins with the chair, Councelor Castro Louu, calling the meeting to order at 9:31 AM. Members are welcomed to the Committee of the Hall on May 7th. The proceedings start with initial formalities and announcements.
09:00 - 15:00: Adoption of Agenda and Routine Items The chapter titled 'Adoption of Agenda and Routine Items' begins with a section of a transcript where Deputy Mayor Godwin Chen is unexpectedly called upon to make an announcement. He acknowledges the prior weekend's busyness for everyone, including himself, and mentions that he joined a large group for an unspecified event on Sunday. The transcript indicates a formal meeting setting, likely a council meeting, where standard procedures like announcements and adoption of the agenda are taking place.
15:00 - 35:30: Member Motion on Automated Speed Enforcement Program This chapter discusses an event involving community volunteers planting trees in Calville Park, referred to as 'W five.' The tree planting activity is portrayed as a community spirited event. The presence of the mayor is highlighted, indicating the importance of the occasion. The narrator expresses personal satisfaction with the event, noting it as a positive exercise on a Sunday. The chapter hints at additional activities or themes related to the month, but details are cut off.
35:30 - 48:37: Member Motion on Council Meeting Attendance Expectations The chapter discusses the Asian heritage month, focusing on an exhibit in Richmond Hill titled 'Standing in the Doorway'. This exhibit highlights the history and challenges faced by the Chinese community in York region, reflecting on the difficulties they have endured over time.

Committee of the Whole Meeting - Wednesday, May 7, 2025 - 9:30 a.m. - City of Richmond Hill Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 You need the Good morning. It's 9:31. I'm going to call the meeting to order. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the May 7th Committee of the Hall. I'm your chair, Councelor Castro Louu. All right. So, let's by uh let's start by uh council
00:30 - 01:00 announcements. Any council announcements? Deputy Mayor Chen. Uh Godwin. Uh Godwin Chen is my name. Didn't expect to be called first. Uh thank you. Good morning everyone. Um and uh it has been a busy weekend. I'm sure that all my colleagues have been very busy. But when in particular uh at the end of uh well almost the end on Sunday uh uh I've joined a good number
01:00 - 01:30 of um community volunteers planting trees actually in Calville Park in W five and uh but it's also you know it not only is tree planting as a community but also u I honestly feel that the spirit and I'm so happy to see the mayor was there uh as well. So um that was a good exercise at least for me uh on a Sunday. Uh in addition uh the month of
01:30 - 02:00 May among many things is the Asian heritage month and it so happens in uh Richmond Hill um there's a particular exhibit called standing in the doorway. We're talking about or describing about the history and experiences of the Chinese community in particular York region. all the difficulties and um have gone through for a long time and is actually at our very own uh display at
02:00 - 02:30 Richmond Hill heritage center. I understand the her center is open on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Um and I encourage uh uh members community if you have the time and chance go to visit uh heritage center uh which is a lovely place to go to. In addition, there's opportunity to look at um I I I I on one hand, I see the exhibit as a a dark history of Canada in terms of um
02:30 - 03:00 anti-Chinese discrimination. On the other hand, it also something for all of us to learn and move forward um uh in a very truly diverse uh society. So, thank you, Mr. Chair, for me to share those um and um happy one for me. Happy Mother's Day coming up to you. Thank you. Thank you. Next, Councelor Thompson. Uh thank you uh very much through the chair. I just wanted to give a shout out to our events uh team who uh helped me
03:00 - 03:30 put on a skating event back on April the 27th and uh it it really turned out well. Um they uh they made sure that everything happened without a problem. All audio, sound, equipment, all that type of stuff. not always a an easy feat when you're trying to deal with two rooms. You got the actual rink itself and then you've got uh the Richmond Hill room where we uh also had u you know
03:30 - 04:00 prizes and socialization and u you know food and stuff like that. So again I just want to uh give a big shout out to our event staff for helping that uh happen without uh without a hitch. Thank you councelor tree. Okay, thank you so much councelor Leu. So I do have a few announcements but maybe uh let me start from the door opening rich hill. So this uh Sunday we're going to have door opening for
04:00 - 04:30 entire rich hill. So all the residents welcome bring your kids family to visiting our heritage and learn our history as well. So you're welcome is on May 10th this Saturday. Uh second one is for uh hold on too many things. Oh, thank you last week for our uh earth week. We do have we did have a few events happening at DDO and also our library and thank you for our staff to put efforts to demonstrated the
04:30 - 05:00 important of earth and also birds as if you know city chong hill is really the bird friendly city. So last uh week on uh in the library you host our board friendly uh demonstrations. A lot of kids showed up. Great. Thank you so much for our staff. Also um there's another few of them. So last weekend so our firefighters organized the charity boots for the mascular destroy Canada. So
05:00 - 05:30 thank you so much for our firefighters. I think I believe that's today's event. I believe majority of the councelor were there as well. Next one will be the uh St. John Cad. So Sangan Cadet host a food bank drive uh in world 4 last week at SBI which is close to my home. Thank you so much for sankatad as well to helping our kids too. I'm not finished yet also. Uh so in ward four we have a
05:30 - 06:00 company named as AMR who is our local business and they will hold a volleyball tournament charity events uh for yellow bridge yellow break so for the uh home not homeless for the families who has a violence for women's and children so that be scheduled on May 31 so if anyone have interest please join this volleyball beach to support our charities another one is for the seed swap. So, uh there will be at the kasby
06:00 - 06:30 uh 45 on May 20 May I think it's May hold on May. So, yeah, May 12. So, if you are interested in planting any plants or flowers at your front yard, backyard, please join this event as well. Uh there's another event I want announce. So last week Richmond High School they made trip musical trip to Boston. So
06:30 - 07:00 they played three musical band and they win first place and the second place. So kudos for the teachers also the students work so hard. So next week they're going to join the national competitions in as well. So thank you so much for the teachers from our bars especially for the kids and families who study in the Richmond High. So proud of you. Kudos. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have regional and local counselor the Paula joining us online. Good morning. Thank
07:00 - 07:30 you. Thank you Mr. Chair. Uh just want to uh give a shout out uh this upcoming Sunday is Mother's Day. I want to say happy Mother's Day to all the all the mothers in Richmond Hill. It's it's the hardest job. Uh probably the lowest paying and the longest hours and there's no breaks or vacations. and um all the mothers in Richmond Hill, I wish you all the best on Sunday. And I want to say a special happy Mother's Day to my mother who's at West Park Health Center. And I know she's watching from her room as she
07:30 - 08:00 does all of our meetings. Happy Mother's Day, Mom. Thank you. Next, we have Mayor West. Well, I'll start off by saying happy Mother's Day to uh Joe's mom. Um I thank you for that. I uh just a couple of things. I wanted to just give a shout out to um the Corpus Christi School uh Catholic school foundation or uh community uh for their 25th
08:00 - 08:30 anniversary. Um, councelor Thompson and I had the pleasure of being there yesterday to u celebrate mass with them and also uh a little uh celebration that they had to commemorate their 25 years uh of doing great things in our community like so many of our schools uh all of our schools do in Richmond Hill. Um I'd also like to give a shout out to the Potter's Guild who had their annual show and sale this weekend. And I know that many of us uh on council were invited to come and and do our uh our
08:30 - 09:00 pick for the the show and they had those on display and and they were some really lovely uh pieces of work that are are produced by our our Richmond Hill Potters. And then the final thing, um, I just wanted to say I, um, given the comments I made the other day about the Leafs, I I am now on the bandwagon and I appreciate that, uh, Councelor Thompson, who is a diehard Leaf fan, I know, has helped me with a step stool to get onto the bandwagon, and I'm just hoping and praying that they don't hurt my feelings like they've done so many times before
09:00 - 09:30 in my life. So, go Leafs, go. Thank you. And the good news is I I I I heard that Stallars is the goalie tonight. So he's back. He's back. All right. All right. Last but not least, and uh I think we should start charging by the minutes. Mr. Clerk, councelor Tree would like a second round. Go ahead. Okay. Wow. Not me. He said no. All right. Maybe next
09:30 - 10:00 time. All right. Thank you very much. Uh okay. So um introduction of emergency times sensitive matters. Seeing none adoption of the agenda. We have no committee regrets. Eight agenda items. One public hearings. Um no presentations no delegations and two members motion. Um can I have a motion to adopt the agenda? Councelor Selivitz. All those in favor carry unanimously. Disclosures of
10:00 - 10:30 pecunary interest and general nature thereof. Seeing none, identification of items requiring separate discussion. Anyone would like to pull anything except for the two member motions and 8.1 public hearings. Seeing none. All right. Um, so we have no public that would like to speak to the tax adjustment, the
10:30 - 11:00 public hearings, right? Um, do I still have to ask? Is it correct? Go ahead. If I might, Mr. Chair, I would suggest that at this stage you might want to entertain a motion to adopt those items not separated for discussion. Absolutely. Okay. And if I could then also take an opportunity just to clarify that if coun if committee is adopting item 11.2 to the site alteration permit process. Uh that would be adopting with the additional recommendations contained in the memo just for clarity sake.
11:00 - 11:30 Yeah. Okay. Thank you. As long as everybody understand I need a motion to councelor up Mayor West. All those in favor carry unanimously. All right. So um next is the two member motions. Oh, the public hearing. Okay. Sorry. So, u any member of the public would like to speak to the uh item
11:30 - 12:00 8.1. Going once. Going twice. Seeing none. Okay. Mayor West would like to move item 8.1. All those in favor carry unanimously. All right. So, we go straight to 12.1. Member motion by regional and local councelor Depala. Please go ahead. Okay. Thank Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Um I I don't know if the clerk
12:00 - 12:30 wants to put the motion on the screen. Uh you have it as a part of your agenda. Uh the the the purpose of this is uh to to to give us more time uh to hear from our residents. I I think we um definitely need to have another round of public consultation before the this the implementation. Um this council's already given direction to our staff and they've been been put in a a sort of
12:30 - 13:00 difficult position. Uh there's there's a a lot of pressure coming from the the from the administrators for for this program. It's actually the city of New Market that's going to be administering this. and um they you know they want to coordinate and know where they stand and um get things up set up to to begin the a asse uh I I think it's it's it's just uh time
13:00 - 13:30 for council to reflect a little bit before we go forward on this. I I I want to share with other members uh the reaction that I I've received from from uh the implementation of regional council cameras. There's there's three uh regional speed cameras in Richmond Hill and I I I'm not sure if you're also getting the same feedback or if it the the complaints and concerns are being funneled uh to the to the regional
13:30 - 14:00 counselors, but u there's there's been um a little bit of backlash and certainly some upset residents that um they you know they they get they're getting ticketed in one case uh gentleman was ticketed three times before he received the the the notice in the mail that that he had had uh you know violated the speed limit. Um there's multiple instances where
14:00 - 14:30 uh residents are doing exactly 70 km an hour in a 50 and it's $180 ticket. So Lesie for example is 70 km and then it it changes to 50 km an hour at in front of Richmond Green High School and that's where there's an automated uh speed enforcement uh by by the region. So, if you're doing the just the speed limit of 70 and and you don't slow down when you
14:30 - 15:00 enter that 50 km zone, um you're you're getting a a ticket for doing 70 and a 50. And it's not excusable, but if it were an officer, um a York Region Police officer, there there'd be some discretion. There'd be some understanding. the officer could watch as the vehicle does in fact get get themselves down to 50 or 55 uh in the through the school zone and um
15:00 - 15:30 you know they wouldn't they wouldn't be pouncing on that person for technically not being doing 70 when they entered the school zone. Um you know officers can use some discretion and the these the speed cameras are are are fraught with difficulties. You know, a lot of times the person getting the ticket is not even the one driving the car. They're the owners of the vehicle. Um we we we know that there's um a perception out
15:30 - 16:00 there and and I've had residents describe them to me as a cash grab cameras and there's there's there's uh a lot of concern out there. So, I'm I'm just saying let's let's take some sober second thought um before this implementation. My my motion is to to delay the deployment and the implementation of the of of the local uh automated speed enforcement program for uh members of council to
16:00 - 16:30 give it give it some thought. talk to um talk to their residents, talk to uh those that are already have some experience with the regional um automated speed enforcement program and whether or not it works. And I I don't want anyone to misunderstand. I'm so grateful for all the the speed the measures that we've put in our local roads, all the ways in which we're
16:30 - 17:00 trying to make our community safety zones safer. I'm I'm I'm all for doing whatever it takes to for safety in front of our schools, but um with regards to this program, I think we just need to uh give it some more thought before its implementation. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move the motion on the screen. Thank you very much. So, we have a motion by C uh regional and local councelor Depala. Um 12.1 is on the floor right now. So
17:00 - 17:30 the first uh the second speaker is councelor tree and then councelor Silvitz. Okay. Thanks so much Mr. Chair. So uh thank you uh for our region councelor uh depalo bring up this topic again. So I just want to repeat the schedule based on last year's approval 2025 Q1 to Q3. They're going to have a lot of events happening around this ASM program including exec necessary agreement the purchasing software etc. So 2025 Q4
17:30 - 18:00 which is in uh around winter time there will be a locations we're going to approve and 2026 we're going to put the budgeting and Q1 we're going to start it. So uh 2026 Q2 the EES will go live. To be honest for now is May. So Q2 next year will be like more than one year. During this one year we have tons of time to educate to send notice to our
18:00 - 18:30 residents. So from my horizon's perspective, I heard a lot of good feedback regarding the traffic controls uh recently in the past two years and when I burn this uh automation uh detecting system especially to the school areas well a lot of parents are really looking for it. So from at least in word four from feedback I got so everybody looking for forward to this
18:30 - 19:00 solution to put forward to easy and calm down the traffic especially near school areas. So when I talk with parents leaving to the school I got tons complaints. So the feedback maybe regional counselor got quite different with me. So I will not support this motion delay that I was looking for maybe speed up a little bit not delay that is my feedback from my residence. Thank you. Thank you councelor Silitz.
19:00 - 19:30 Thank you Mr. Chair. Good morning. Um I will support this uh motion in front of us. Um, I think it's a it's it's it's always a good idea to give our residents a little bit more time to uh become uh better better informed and to better associate themselves with uh with specific bylaws. Um I I fully support these cameras, but what I think what I believe that the region can do better is
19:30 - 20:00 informing the public because it's not up to us. It's up to the region. These are regional cameras. When it comes to the municipality, that's a different story. So, I got the most com complaints from my residents about the uh the the camera on Carville at Avenue Road. They were furious that there was a camera there. It's right outside the school that there was a camera there and um and and that they got they got fined. So my response to most to people are I I
20:00 - 20:30 have I have sympathy for you and I understand your concerns but this is not a cash grab for the region or the municipality. What this is is us trying to make our roads safer. It's that's the bottom line. We're trying to make our roads safer for uh for everybody in a vehicle and all pedestrians. That's why we have these cameras. And um the fact that we have to
20:30 - 21:00 have these cameras or or have um uh police uh sitting at intersections is because people do not obey the rules of the road. So my my answer to a number of people respectfully is when they say, "Well, what what must I do?" My answer is don't speed. Obey the rules of the road. Uh they're there for a reason. Um it's not just speeding. I mean yesterday, just on
21:00 - 21:30 a personal note, when I was coming to the office, driving down Spadina between Wald and 16th, there was a a woman in front of me in an SUV. She went through, she rolled through every single stop. Every single stop street. She did not come to a full and total stop. And you are supposed to do that. Your wheels are supposed to stop rolling and then
21:30 - 22:00 you can go. Just because you don't see anybody else in the in on the intersecting um intersecting sides, it it doesn't mean you can roll through. It says stop. So, um I I I agree with this simply because it'll give us more time and um and hopefully everybody can become better adapted. And what I would also say to the public is should everybody obey the rules of the road and not speed the rules of the road and and the highway traffic act and
22:00 - 22:30 not speed then perhaps these cameras will not be necessary. But at this point in time they obviously are necessary and um they're not there as a like I said at the beginning they're not there as an I gotcha moment. They are there for very specific purposes. they are in front of schools, libraries, and community centers. So, so if you if you think about that, just if you just give that a little bit of thought, I think that um most people I I would assume
22:30 - 23:00 everybody would understand why those cameras are there because the last thing we need is somebody killed at one of the intersections near a school or a community center or a library. And um you know if on Carville it says do 50 and then some some says do 40 do 50 and 40 there's absolutely no reason to speed down to speed down these roads. So um thank you to councelor regional councelor depalo for bringing this
23:00 - 23:30 forward. Um but I I hope that somewhere along the line our our residents all residents begin to understand that this is for the protection of everybody not for the gotcha of everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have councel Davidson. Thank you. Um through Mr. Chair I I have some questions for staff. Um and I I agree we're going to get backlash. I mean, it's never a good time to install
23:30 - 24:00 these cameras and have people upset, but this council's committed to traffic safety, and I think we've done more in the last two years um to make our streets safer, and we continue to do that. So, um through you, Mr. Chair, my question, I have a couple of questions for staff starting with, we've already committed and spent a substantial amount of money on this, right? I feel like we're backtracking, but we've already committed to the speed cameras, isn't that right? And we've have we ordered them and it's all in place for the most part financially anyway
24:00 - 24:30 through you Mr. Chair. Um we have a budget allocated capital amount allocated to configure software for uh the purposes of enforcing the ASC's. Um but I I think that's the only amount of money we've spent at this time and we've only spent a small portion of that. Three, Mr. Sure. But we've to have the cameras by next year. Have we like put in an order or have we moved forward as if those cameras are physically going to be available in next year through you
24:30 - 25:00 Mr. Chair? So the plan is to um piggyback on new markets group buying uh RFP. So we haven't actually uh put any money into it yet. Thank you through Mr. Chair. So there's there's no financial penalty for us to delay it. That's correct. Thank you. Um I I do think that part of the problem definitely and we've all recognized this with the regional count uh cameras is
25:00 - 25:30 they were just there might be a little sign but there really wasn't a huge education. I never received anything in the mail and there I mean we need huge signs a big big education bump to let people know. But would there be anything would it be possible through you Mr. chair to issue let's say the first two months or the first three months all tickets are a warning and saying you know on November 1st these are going to be real but had you you know just know that what you were doing in that school
25:30 - 26:00 zone would have gotten you a ticket is is it a big deal to send like a substantial period of time of warnings because we've just heard that it can take three tickets before you even know you got the first one so could we have an extended period of time of warning tickets is that expensive and is it possible uh through you Mr. Chair. I believe we heard that from council um when the report previously came forward and that is our plan a 30 to 90day warning period. We haven't decided on the exact amount
26:00 - 26:30 of days story you Mr. Chair. So you mean we could start the program and for 30 to 90 days people will only receive warnings. Okay. I I think that's a great solution. I think we could keep the schedule we're on, but people won't actually get a get a ticket till maybe a few months later because I I I do think these cameras change behavior and that's the whole point. So sitting on it means we're kicking down the can down the road even longer to have people drive more safely in community safety zones. We're kicking the can down the street longer
26:30 - 27:00 to have people slow down in schools areas. So, I would I feel like there's some fine-tuning to do, but I think we can stay the course and bring people along with us rather than have this necessarily looking as a punitive measure. So, I I'm going to vote no, but I appreciate the discussion. Thank you. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. Uh, thank you very much and uh thank you, Councelor Davidson, for taking my question away. Uh, yeah. No, that was I
27:00 - 27:30 definitely wanted to know if there was going to be some sort of plans that uh when the program started whether it would uh u be a grace period and you've answered that and I definitely appreciate that. Um but it it does beg another question that we're piggybacking on new market. If we were to take this course, would that not then impact New Market?
27:30 - 28:00 Uh through you, Mr. Chair. Um well, New Market has has set up a JPC, a joint processing center, and they have their camera vendor already. Uh we're not aware of any impacts or or problems. Uh I I did ask them a question, and they said, "You start when you want to start." I see. Uh thank you very much through the chair. So it sounds like uh they you know whether we were on board or not it it wasn't going to make any difference to them if I'm hearing you correctly
28:00 - 28:30 through you Mr. Chair. I I think their preference would be to have additional municipalities sooner rather than later but um they they are operating either way. So okay and probably from the standpoint that uh there could be benefits through the bulk procurement process uh through the chair through you Mr. Chair. Yeah. So they would obviously have efficiency thresholds more tickets they're they're
28:30 - 29:00 processing they get better efficiencies and their their program would be closer to offsetting any costs. So, um, it might be beneficial, but we're not the only municipality they're they're they're talking to. So, I don't think it's a a a significant concern for them, right? Um, no, much appreciated. I appreciate the answers. Um, this is a a a difficult one for me. Um, yes, I know there's going to be backlash. I know it's going to be in both directions. I
29:00 - 29:30 mean, at the moment, I'm not I'm not sure where where I'm at, if it's 50/50, 6040, what I'm hearing either direction. I'm certainly hearing it from both directions. Um certainly uh from the from the regional roads, I I hear the people saying, you know, that we're talking high school students. You know, what you know, they're not the ones that we're worried about. You know, it's a, you know, they they know the
29:30 - 30:00 rules of the road by then. And I'm going, it's interesting because I see it the other way. The public schools are the ones where the kids still have it ingrained in their heads to look both ways before they cross the road and so forth. When you get to high school, every kid is looking down at their phone and they've got hoodies on and they don't see from one side to the other. Quite frankly, the the regional road is definitely, you know, the the place where it's needed the most and people need to obey the rules as councelor Silivit said. Um, but
30:00 - 30:30 uh again, I'm I'm hearing a lot where people want to know when are we going to do this? You know, we they need it in their immediate neighborhoods. And that's what I'm hearing in my neighborhood. Um I'm I'm still slightly undecided because I certainly hear the other side of the story, people saying the same things. But again, if there is going to be a grace period and the whole idea is to change the behaviors,
30:30 - 31:00 uh I think I'm I'm leaning towards uh wanting to see this sooner than later. Those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you. Any more speakers on the first round? Mayor West. Thank you. Um, so this has been a good discussion so far. I I I appreciate that. Thank you, colleagues. But, um, I I'll support the motion, but I'm I'm I'm supporting it tentatively because there's a number of kind of things that are are sticking with me that are are
31:00 - 31:30 concerning. I I get it that it's a real bummer to get a ticket. I mean, nobody likes that. It it it feels very like a personal affront when people get a ticket. I mean, I have got the odd one in my lifetime. I get it. Um, but these speed cameras, and I've and I've talked to the region about this. The speed cameras are working. We had 40% compliance when this the cameras were rolled out. Now we have 70% compliance. That's really good. Um, the other thing that they're doing is that they're allowing police to the police resources,
31:30 - 32:00 you know, the the the officer that's going to be there with the radar gun, instead of them sitting there all day, they can go do the things which goodness knows in our communities nowadays, uh, we need them to do. And and most importantly, community safety and and crime and investigations and all that other stuff that that we're really relying on our police forces right now to help us through because community safety is a really big issue. Um, you know, I mean, people say, well, the the the um the cameras are a cash grab. I
32:00 - 32:30 would argue that the having police officers sit there all day and, you know, do a few tickets here and there is is actually a tax grab. So, I mean, it there's it it cuts both ways. Um, an important thing that I I I need to to uh publicize is that it's been shown that the risk of injury at 40 km of an hour is about 25%. But the risk of injury at 80 km an hour is 93%. So that and you know and further what councelor Thompson
32:30 - 33:00 was saying um you know around these cameras are not everywhere. I mean they're around places where there are vulner vulnerable people. Uh and high school students I would argue are in that category. In fact I would argue that high school students are not supervised by teachers and parents when they're out going for lunch whereas elementary school kids are probably more supervised. Um, so the other thing I want to mention is that when you get a ticket from a speed camera, you're not going to lose points and your insurance
33:00 - 33:30 company is not going to find out. So, you're not at risk of having your insurance go up. If you're getting a ticket from a police officer, which is the alternative, okay? Uh, you're you could be losing points and it is possible that your insurance company will find out and it will infect your insurance rates. Um what we're talking about in the roll out of this program is speed cameras in Richmond Hill streets, not regional streets. Most of our schools are on those interior streets. So there are vulnerable y road users all
33:30 - 34:00 throughout our communities. Um so I think I think that situation and the speed camera program there is different than the speed camera program on regional roads which are major through through fairs. Um and and I think it's important to know that whether we like these cameras or not and I you know I have mixed views of them too. Uh we hear from people a lot about road safety and this is part it's only a part but it's
34:00 - 34:30 part of a comprehensive safety plan which by the way we've worked very hard on this in this council term uh to also do other things to be more proactive about road safety. So, you know, when it comes to safety, I think we really need to think, are we in, are we out? I mean, you know, it's there's no halfway here. Um, I half of the collisions are speed related. That's a statistic. The average ticket that's been given out in Richmond Hill is 19 km an hour over. That's the
34:30 - 35:00 average. So, that means a good number of them are more than 19 km over. Uh, that's a problem. Just for interest, the the maximum speed uh ticket that was given was 219 kilometers an hour on Bay View in front of our lady queen of the world. That's outrageous, right? So I am, you know, I have mixed feelings and I actually appreciate regional counselor depo bring this out. I think the advantages here are it does give us more time to work out the details. Have a public education campaign. Make sure
35:00 - 35:30 some of the details are done right. Like getting three tickets in a row before you get your actual first ticket in the mail is unacceptable. I actually think they have addressed that concern at the region, although I don't have confirmation of that. But, you know, details like that need to be worked out because that's not fair and it's not in the spirit of what this was all about was to get people to to slow down. Um, and and I just want to also point out that by 2027, almost every municipality
35:30 - 36:00 that I can think of that I know of in York Region will have already implemented their speed camera program. So, we would be the last one to do it. And the concern I have about that is that I also get people calling me up and saying, "We need speed cameras. We need speed cameras. We need speed cameras." So, you know, on the one hand, I think we need to be doing this, uh, you know, and and doing it right. And that that's really crucial, but on the other hand, I think we need to make sure that we get the details right. So, I'll be looking forward to hearing the rest of this
36:00 - 36:30 discussion, but I am definitely leaning um in supporting this uh tentatively, but to use the time wisely to make sure that we roll it out uh really really well and make it effective. So, those are my comments. I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of the discussion. Thank you. Regional and local counselor, Deputy Mayor Chen. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Um thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um yes um at the regional level there have been good discussions
36:30 - 37:00 uh at the moment um that there is or the arc is exclusively on regional role I I may say and commissioner that is the situation correct um I I do understand um the backlash and I'm sure the mayor myself and probably the mover also got quite a bit of it um and and I think that uh I totally agree that uh number one, let's be clear uh and mayor put it very well
37:00 - 37:30 and also other speakers. Uh we as a council here locally in support of road safety and um the professional staff transportation who are experts in this area. they have whether at the region as well in the city have um prepared for this and as automated speak enforcement is one of the other tools many tools uh but it seems to be
37:30 - 38:00 working in the sense that the mayor just give you some I would say alarming statistics but also um it has been reported that you know at least reduce uh you know you can look at the percentage but anywhere from you close to uh a half and even more percentage in terms of reducing uh collision. I mean that's the objective. Um so I don't want in any way depend whatever outcome of this motion would in
38:00 - 38:30 any way be interpreted that is either this council or well we cannot speak for the region is uh not really continue the path as recommended by our professional staff. That's the uh way to improve traffic safety and also backup with data. Having said that, I do see and agree at that um at this point in time whether region or in the city in the future need to be improvement. Uh, one
38:30 - 39:00 of the concern is and and the mayor touch on it is that uh the time it took seems to quite a while before you actually get that ticket in the mail and then you might get a few tickets uh uh uh uh after you get your first one and that only come later. So that that's something need to be looked at. So the turnaround of that because in the meantime is only going by mail. uh but it's not for us here to decide but there are opportunity to improve the uh um
39:00 - 39:30 expediency in terms of more prompt the notification and it's no doubt and agree with uh councelor Davidson changing behavior uh most of the uh cities uh well streets in Toronto are now having assepher and the other road driver are slowing down the behavior takes time. Um so I'm I have a I have I have a bit
39:30 - 40:00 of challenge of supporting it but I understand uh the mover where it's coming from uh but interum if through you Mr. care um in accordance with our schedule implementation time um what are the plans I think we have seen it before but if you helped uh one u I don't know it's the city manager or commissioner can share with us or remind us what have been the plan in terms of communication
40:00 - 40:30 uh before the schedule implementation to Mr. Chair, education is the key. No doubt about it. So what's the plan? Mr. Chair, Commissioner Steels. Through you, Mr. Chair. So the report that we were planning to do later this year was going to detail a comprehensive community community uh awareness plan. Um we have started uh
40:30 - 41:00 talking about some things New Market actually in partnering with them. One of the services they offer is uh assistance in designing a communication plan based on the things that they've already learned from from theirs. Uh we would certainly uh be looking to uh broadly increase awareness using signage, the website, social media, all of those things that are are typical. But I don't have the actual details of the plan yet because that's the timeline that we're on um planned to be finalized
41:00 - 41:30 in a few months. Okay. So, we don't have the final details, but but I got it, but I think it's important and I think we're probably all uh members of the committee would uh quick education is key. Nobody likes to get a ticket period. On the other hand, some I'm not going to mention the source saying well if you're observing the rules of the world, you won't get it. Uh so um so that's that's where it is and I do understand um in
41:30 - 42:00 that sense that this is only relating to the implementation for the city role um and but the regional is uh uh uh going on uh so um at this point in time I I can see the idea the mover I I got it to give a bit more time for the city to educate people and on that note uh I do have reserations but I I I I supported at this time. Uh there's something that region need to be done is among three of us and the region maybe
42:00 - 42:30 to push harder there. Thank you. Thank you. Next councelor Shu. Thank you Mr. Chair. Um in my opinion firstly I believe this uh ASD program is a positive initiative to ensure public safety. If uh some of our neighbors um see it as a way to generate revenue, I would counter that. If you follow the traffic rules, nobody can take money from your pocket. That's easy to understand. And also I do believe um
42:30 - 43:00 educating the public is an ongoing effort. It doesn't matter to prolong it one year or two year long because what our job is to educating and communicating with the people to educate them the importance of public safety on the road. So actually we are always ready to address any concerns and inquiries from our neighbors. So I don't see any valid
43:00 - 43:30 reason to delay or postpone the implementation of this ASD program. I think sooner or later we will implement this. Education is always ongoing is underway always. So I'm so sorry unfortunately I won't support this motion and u I prefer keeping this program on schedule. That's my all comments. Thank you so much. Thank you. So before I go to second round I'm going to know uh say a few things. Uh I think the magic magic word of today is grace
43:30 - 44:00 period. I think this is more than enough and I agree totally with councelor Shu that you know public education is ongoing. Um there's never enough time and I think you know the backlash is from our residents but I think we are not targeting our own residents. We're targeting the the the people, the drivers that out there are not from our community, the Uber drivers, the delivery trucks and all those people. And uh to protect our own residents, protect our own students and and we already have um you know uh road
44:00 - 44:30 paintings on slow down and everything and signage and I think it's uh it's it's good. I I honestly I I I appreciate the initiative, but I don't see the need to postpone this because um my resident is looking forward to seeing these cameras in the neighborhood. So, um and yeah, I'm not I won't be able to support this motion. So, going to the second round, councelor tree. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to add another
44:30 - 45:00 comment here. So, ticketing is also another education process. Is that going to be a final payment? Determined by us. So I what I want to say is the most complaint from the residents who got the ticket is because they're going to pay the money. But from city perspective, this our council decision should we lift up the payment or not, right? So as long as tools are there, this is a warning, people see it and people see something's
45:00 - 45:30 on the street, they're going to pay attention. The second part will be this our determination should we start to find them or not if they receive tickets three months straight forward six months straight forward I don't think that's really a good approach for them so end of the day if the tools are there we can collect how many tickets we issued there's no penalties so that's also a education for our residents or you got ticket this time being because we
45:30 - 46:00 initial that one may not give you the fine right I think the most concerns the par the the residenc say oh I got I got a fine I don't want to pay for it that is okay determine is on us so if wrong three months counelor say ah this is not good we will receive tons of complaints okay let's continue extension for another six months without pay without any money payment if the people still offended after plan three months they get we do have the controls on our
46:00 - 46:30 council's hand but tools are there So we're going to watch monitoring and education and later on we come back we can determine should we pay like ask to pay money or not that determination on us so we can have more more powers more controls over there but the tools already in place so I think there's going to be first one is more visibility for the people who offended driving crazy the second one is also a good education process if they get tickets
46:30 - 47:00 continually one two three for a turn five right then time being oh I should pay attention because there's no penalty there's no any fine at all just for the education perspective you can put the two there that'll be much better for our education process well that that's my thought so I I hope all the counelor can consider that so the concerns or the complaints come prior residence because it's money they're going to pay for it if he can suspended that payment a
47:00 - 47:30 little bit longer that going to be another very important strong education process. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone would like to speak on this second round? Mayor West. Thank you. Just a couple more things. Um so I mean by my estimation this this vote is probably going to be fairly close and and that's that's great. Um you know we've had some a good conversation here. Um and I but I think what I'm hearing and and this and I agree with this 100% is that um no one
47:30 - 48:00 on this council is saying that we shouldn't be doing it. What we're saying is it's it really is it's a detail that we're talking about here and the detail is when right and it's either going to be 365 days earlier or 365 days later essentially right and and that's good. I mean we should be talking about this. The only thing that I think I want to stress and um is that if this motion fails, the the key issue in my mind based on what I've said just a few
48:00 - 48:30 minutes ago and and right now is that um this is a automatic speed enforcement is a divisive issue. There's no question. We have people that like it, people that don't like it, and very few people that are sitting on the fence. But um I think it is an important part of our as I said of our kind of overall um strategy for road safety which we all know is really really important. What I think I'm concerned about and the advantage of delaying this a little bit is that we have some learning already about the
48:30 - 49:00 roll out at the region which by the way I don't think was as good as it probably could have been. I'll I'll give you know I understand that because you know we're doing it kind of this is uncharted territory by the time we do it whether we do it on schedule or we do it a little bit later we will have some learning but I think what we need to do is have a roll out wi within our communities especially which is what we're talking about here today with the absolute best effort that we possibly
49:00 - 49:30 can from all the learning that we can all the communication that we can have a good plan to make sure that this is as positive a roll out and that people understand why this is being done. And the the extra time might hopefully give us the time to be able to accomplish that in a very very good way because when this is rolled out, there's going to be a lot of people that are likely going to get tickets. They're going to live in that neighborhood and they're going to feel very offended, right? And
49:30 - 50:00 they're going to be calling uh us up on counsel. And I want to be able to at that time say here are the facts. This is everything that we uh we know about it and and this is all that we've done to make the roll out as effective as we can. So regardless of whether this passes or fails, I I would call on staff and I know that this is in the plan um to bring back a very very comprehensive roll out plan, very comprehensive communication plan. I want to know exactly what we're going to be doing,
50:00 - 50:30 exactly when we're going to be doing it, and exactly how we're going to be doing it because I want to make sure I mean really at the end of the day, the very best outcome of a roll out of automatic speed enforcement would be for no one to get tickets. You know, that would be the very best outcome. And if we do a campaign that's watertight enough, I think the the community will understand what we're doing and they'll um they'll accept it. And I'll just finish off by saying a number of years ago um in front
50:30 - 51:00 of what used to be called Vaughn Secondary School I was driving and I was fair distance back from the school in front of the school and I saw what I thought when I was driving that far back a piece of cardboard coming flying up over the top of somebody's car but it was a kid and uh and he was fine. I mean he got up and walked away. It was a it was a miracle. But I will never forget that image and you know and getting back to the statistic that I was and and just to give some context a a YRT bus had
51:00 - 51:30 stopped in front of the school at the stop at the bus stop and the kid ran out in front of the bus which is a bad judgment call no question about it. Um and that's the reason he got hit but the driver that that hit him wasn't going very fast. And so, you know, this was a lesson learned um for the I suppose for the for the the child that got hit or the young person that got hit. But, but you know, going back to the statistic I was talking about earlier, if somebody
51:30 - 52:00 gets hit and a driver is going way over the speed limit, the outcome is very different. And and that is the thing that really at the end of the day um you know I try to tell people when they call me and they're upset about a ticket like if you're going 20 over you are really substantially increasing the the uh chances of somebody getting really really seriously hurt and you know given the the the ticket to encourage you to slow down or the outcome that might happen if you hit somebody going that speed you know the the outcome is very very very quantum differences between
52:00 - 52:30 the two. So, um, anyway, I again, I appreciate the the conversation from my colleagues and, uh, you know what, we'll, uh, we'll see where we go from here. Thank you. Next, we have regional and local counselor depala. Mr. Chairman, and I I thank my council colleagues for for this discussion. There's so many things that were said today that are so right, and and we I think agree. I think uh I think everyone
52:30 - 53:00 spoke and I think all nine of us want speed enforcement cameras and we we want to make our safety zones more safe. Um we we want this to happen but there's also a lot of good uh statistics that have come out of this discussion. Uh I I would love if our whole community could could uh be privy to the information that we've discussed today before the implementation. I I know that from the regional experience if if
53:00 - 53:30 it's not done right um you know it's it's regrettable. I don't want I don't want to roll this out in Richmond Hill and have um have a divisive issue where you when you have two sides of residents that feel very strongly on on both sides and and there's a lack of education and there isn't a lot of uh public process. Um it it it it's very difficult when you're getting those phone calls from my
53:30 - 54:00 residents on one side or the other. Um we know that our our our residents want their children to be safe and they want those community safety zones to be enforced. And I like the automated speed cameras because everyone gets a ticket every time. And it's not, you don't get to play this game in our school zones where I I can get away with speeding as long as there isn't an officer around. I I I really think this is the way to go.
54:00 - 54:30 There's there's no question. Um but I I want this council to be armed and and and ready with information when uh when complaints come forward. I want our residents to really know that we're not making any money out of this. But this is not the intention at all whatsoever. I really like a a a lengthy proper educational process that everyone in our community understands. The goal and the
54:30 - 55:00 purpose is to is to control control speeds in sensitive areas so that vulnerable people are protected and to to prevent um any anyone from being hurt. And that's the only purpose. uh it's not not to assist you know this city of New Market in their efforts not there there's no profit there's no things and the only side benefit which isn't the purpose is freeing up our officers for
55:00 - 55:30 even more community safety and I think the mayor said that and I think our residents would would just benefit so much more if they understood that if they understood that it's not the best use of of our community resources for YRP uh to be waiting uh in hiding on street corners to to catch speeders. It's it's uh you know long long ago
55:30 - 56:00 um determined that there's much much better use for those uh YRP community safety officers. So, uh, that's all I I just I I want there to be unity, uh, across the community, uh, with this. Um, and I I think we need it'll take time to do it right. Thank you. Thank you. Second round, Councelor Thompson. Thank you very much. Uh, and through you, the chair, I mean, this has been a
56:00 - 56:30 very good conversation. Um, a couple of comments that I would like to make though is that uh, a lot of our regional roads for sure when they were built they were actually built to accommodate higher speeds. They probably started at 80 kilometers and you know over time we've brought them down to 60. But it doesn't mean that the roads can't accommodate a higher speed. So, and the way cars have been built today, much
56:30 - 57:00 smoother and so forth, you know, I can see where it's easy for for people to if they're not paying attention to let their speed uh creep up. And that's the key thing is that we want to change behaviors. And I think about um you know, anytime somebody gets behind the wheel, they should always be concentrating on their driving because basically they're driving a loaded gun. You know, this is something that can kill somebody in an instant and you
57:00 - 57:30 should be aware of it. Keep the safety features on and and do that. And I and I remember my mother, God bless her, um and I was probably 16 at the time and just got my license, but she got her first ever ticket and she came back and she said, "You know what? That police officer did me a favor because I was not concentrating on driving that vehicle." And she made that very comment about
57:30 - 58:00 it's a loaded gun. It's ready to go off at any time. So, you know, from a behavior standpoint, I think we uh really need to uh look at it in in that perspective because it's so easy to forget what we're doing, particularly when we're behind the wheel. Um and we we need to change that behavior so that every person that's behind the wheel is always paying attention to what they're doing. Um, one comment that I would like
58:00 - 58:30 to just and I guess this is a comment for staff. The mayor had mentioned earlier that uh the average ticket was 19 kilometers uh uh above the the speed limit. So I I don't know if that's including the regional roads and and our our own uh roads, but only regional roads. That's only regional roads. Would we be able to get that data just for our roads excluding the regional roads to
58:30 - 59:00 find out what that average might be through the chair to councelor Thompson where we can gather that data is where we have our polemounted radar board messages and on those areas where we select on an annual basis we've also increased that program based on uh one of the recommendations from the traffic safety operations strategy to have more of those uh radar message boards and that's how we track in those locations where we place them what the average speeds are, the low, the high, the median, so forth,
59:00 - 59:30 right? So, um I guess what, uh where I'm going with this is that if we're trying to make sure that we're going to roll this out correctly, um and we talked about the grace period, I don't my my take personally and and you can take this away as a comment is that I don't believe that we should uh have full grace for the speeders. So if somebody is going beyond that average speed in
59:30 - 60:00 our roads, so let's say it was, you know, 12 kilometers over the speed limit. Well, I'm sorry, you're getting a ticket. You know, forget the notification period for those people. It's only for the ones that uh, you know, during that first, you know, whatever it is, 3 month period that that would be. So take that as a comment, but uh that would be uh my take on that. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone would like to speak on the second round be before I call the vote? Seeing none, um I assume someone
60:00 - 60:30 would like to recorded vote because this looks close to me. So if nobody asked for record, I'll ask for a recorded vote. Okay. All right. Thank you. Uh voting on the motion by regional councelor depala. Councelor Leu. No. Thank you. Region Local Councelor Depala, yes. Thank you. Councelor Shu, no. Thank you.
60:30 - 61:00 Region Local Councelor Chan, yes. Thank you, Councelor Silvitz. Yes. Thank you, Councelor Davidson. No. Thank you, Councelor Thompson. No. Thank you, Mayor West. Yes. Thank you, Councelor Tree. No. Thank you. That motion fails to carry. Thank you. All right. So, uh, our last
61:00 - 61:30 item is, uh, 12.2 member motion by councelor Davidson. Please go ahead. Thank you. Um, just to cut to the chase, this is a motion that says while hybrid meetings where um counselors can be remote are a great supplementary tool, that uh this motion would require members of council to attend all regularly scheduled council and committee the whole meetings of the city of Richmond
61:30 - 62:00 Hill in person. Um and then permit three council meetings and three committee the whole meetings that councilors can attend virtually and then if you're ill or there are um uh inclement weather and people can't make it that those are also a great reason to do things remotely but overall we come to council meetings in person. And this is something I've heard from residents. They want to see us here. Um, I know that it it says a lot
62:00 - 62:30 about our transparency, about how professional we are. It increases civic engagement. When residents come with delegations, they almost always want to talk to us afterwards, which we're happy to engage. It gives us all an opportunity to meet with staff and build rapport and find out more questions without 10 emails back and forth. Um, it also helps us to meet each other and I think this council works extremely well together and the personal interaction just adds to that but mostly it's
62:30 - 63:00 because it's what residents want and um I hope there'll be support for it. It's not a complete note of virtual but it lets residents know that our that we're all planning to come and then if there are mitigating circumstances there are options to still come but not be in attendance. and I hope my colleagues support it. Thank you. Thank you. So, we have 12.2 moved by councelor Davidson on the floor. Um, next speaker is Councelor Selivitz. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to
63:00 - 63:30 Councelor Davidson for bringing this forward. Um, I have a few questions uh regarding the um the actual uh motion in front of us. Uh, Mr. Clerk, could you put it on the screen, please? Thank you. Okay. Um, so I'm not in disagreement with with what councelor Davidson is saying and I absolutely understand why this is why this is being said and I I I support that. However, I think there are
63:30 - 64:00 too many um uh unknowns here that that could negatively impact something something like this. So for instance um uh for just speaking about myself so everybody knows I have long co everybody knows it's a problem it's taken me at least 3 years to get used to it but it will still sometimes hit me and I can't come in I can do my job but I have to
64:00 - 64:30 I'm at home so um that's that's critical for me and also as the chair of the accessibility advisory committee thinking of of anybody who has um a health problem or an accessibility problem that must be taken into effect as as well. So that's number one. And then number two is who who are the police here? How do we police something like this? So, it's all very well to say that
64:30 - 65:00 we have three three days for this and three days for that, but what what if there's a fourth or a fifth? So, it's not in our code of conduct. And um the clerk certainly is not our police. Neither is the mayor or our um esteemed madam CEO, city manager. So our police are the residents and our
65:00 - 65:30 residents if they are un dissatisfied with our attendance at um council meetings. Albeit I know that when you look on the screen it like for instance today everybody can see council de Paulo on their screen here and at home you know that councelor depalo is there and you can see me because I'm talking and you can see the chair but the the wide feed screen which I'm very grateful for is still very very small and you can't
65:30 - 66:00 really tell I'm here you know you can't really tell who's there and who isn't. It is our duty to be to attend council and committee meetings. That is why we were elected. Um so perhaps what we could look at is in including this in our uh our pledge when we are elected, our inaugural pledge that it is it's it's really up to it's
66:00 - 66:30 up to the counselors. It's up to the elected person to ensure that you are coming to your council meetings that you are attending your committee meetings. So I I I my concern is is is with that as part of it. um so forth. I I would say that perhaps it could be included in the pledge in the upcoming the next term of council cuz we're now chronologically
66:30 - 67:00 we're you know we're in the middle of our third year. So um that was one one thing. What if it's a code of conduct? What if it's included in the code of conduct? Then how is that policed as well? it would certainly be better policed than if it's not in the code of conduct and but then what are what what happens what's the negative impacts what are the consequences there's that um so it's
67:00 - 67:30 just I believe that it's up to us we are it's the onus on us as elected representatives of the people to attend our council meetings and to attend our committee meetings and um if we're not here there should be a very very good reason why we are not here. We're ill or the weather or we're away um or or our car broke down, we can't get here. There's there's so many variables. I think they must be taken into account.
67:30 - 68:00 Um we got a letter from a resident who made some very good points as well and I want to thank her for that. Um, so I would um look forward to hearing the discussion at the bench and um and and we'll see where we go with this. But those are my immediate thoughts. Thank you. Thank you. Next we have councelor Shu. Thank you Mr. Chair and u first of all I agree with the principle of this motion behind and I most likely will support
68:00 - 68:30 this motion but not 100% at this point because I want to clarify some details. uh with councelor Davidson. I think details does matter in this motion. First of all, um is a budget committee meeting included because uh some of uh since all of us are the members of budget committee and it shared the similar nature as a c uh as a cow meeting. So I just want to clarify is a budget committee meeting is included as well because it's similar nature.
68:30 - 69:00 Yeah. Councelor Davidson, thank you for the question through Mr. Chair. No, these are just the council meetings on Wednesday mornings, one a week, either the council committee meeting or the council meeting itself and all the other committee meetings and uh even the public council meetings in the evening are not on this are not listed. Yeah, but I would suggest uh to include the budget committee meeting as well because it's share the similar nature. All of us are the members of budget committee. Why
69:00 - 69:30 is not included as well? So we have to work on more details in uh of this motion I would say and I would give you a suggestion. Um I'm not going to amend this motion because I don't want to steal your show but I I would say I would suggest you to amend some of the details and the secondly um just want to clarify one more thing. Can the three virtual meeting quotas be used without a reason or are they reserved for medical or under bad weather situation? Can you can you clarify about this? Thank you
69:30 - 70:00 for the question through Mr. Chair. So those are just discretionary. If you know you have to be somewhere else and it's unavoidable then you don't owe anyone an explanation. These are just what I'm trying to do here is is set a benchmark that our our our starting point is coming and then if there are other circumstances I mean three is an arbitrary number. If you want to change that number if you want to make the amendment about the budget committee I mean we all came yesterday. I'm not on that committee, but we're all really
70:00 - 70:30 invested, right? So, um it's more and of course it's the honor system. There is no there is no policing of anything. I just think we're trying to I'm trying to send a message to the public that says we believe we should be here for you. This is where you'll see us every every Wednesday morning for whichever meeting and we're committed to that. There's no policing or anything and it's not binding. It's more just a statement. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So if it's not a non-binding uh what if someone end ups
70:30 - 71:00 needing more free virtual meeting spots is any kind of penalty or something like that if we need three or more quotas for virtual meeting. Thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Clerk we discussed this a little bit. There's no there's real no there's no actual tell us what the what the what the what the issue is with any kind of enforcement through the chair. Um the council and I
71:00 - 71:30 discussed enforcement is probably the one could say the most challenging aspect of this. This is council's procedure bylaw. This is the expectations that council sets for themselves. Um this would be it would be for council to decide how to enforce its rules and that's consistent with the procedure bylaw which says that council can wave certain rules for in so if we use this as an example it would certainly be council's ability to say yes that's fine. So um I'll just say
71:30 - 72:00 that this is council's uh procedure bylaw. It governs your meetings. It governs your behaviors at these meetings and it would be up to uh council to decide on those matters. Okay. So, in my opinion, if there's no any mechanism or or policy to to execute the three time quo, it makes no sense because I can just ask for a quoter any time and there's no penalty for us. Doesn't make no sense. That's my
72:00 - 72:30 comment. And also, how to define bad weather? Is there any definition bad weather or like like a 5 cm snowfall a a snow bank just block my driveway so I can't come out something like that or medical appointment do I need to provide any doctor's note so I I I think if you set the rules to to set three time quotas we have to to think more details how to execute it to make this motion makes make sense and and
72:30 - 73:00 understand and easy manage and easy to make all of us to to to follow this um this motion behind and I think the the the the principle behind is good but I think we have to work on further on how to execute and make is a good cause and also um could we add two more reason I suggest caregiving the first one is
73:00 - 73:30 caregiving I think it's also a very good reason to ask for a virtual meeting caregiving responsibility and touchwood if there's any um uh urgent family matters like touchwood if any family members passes away and need to attend a funeral outside of Canada it needs more longer time to have a virtual meeting so how to make that is any proof to provide to the clerk something like that uh
73:30 - 74:00 Yeah. So I would say we have to think more details about to to execute this motion. And one last point in some cases we have a prolonged meeting even we have to to prolong the meeting in the afternoon. So if someone can attend the meeting in the in the morning but due to other commitments can only join virtually in the afternoon and when the meeting resumes after lunch. So would it be considered as using one
74:00 - 74:30 quarter? I think we have to think more details to to to make this motion more sense more more mixing sense. That's my comments and I I would most likely support your intention and the principle behind but we have to think more details. That's my comment in this round. Thank you. Thank you. So next we have regional and local counselor dep Paula. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I I like the
74:30 - 75:00 motion. I'm going to I'm going to support it. And it's good points from councelor Shu. Those are all it's all valid considerations, but I think this is signaling um and an intention to um you know, to get back to the to inerson meetings. Uh you know, city hall is created for a reason. There there was never hybrid meetings before. Um, it was it was buil born out of necessity, but
75:00 - 75:30 it's not something that should be leaned on. And the the wording of the motions is pretty clear. It's just not to be abused. We you don't uh uh you don't don't take advantage of the hybrid opportunity. Um, you definitely can if it's an emergency, a necessity up to three times is, you know, is very reasonable and normal. Well, I trust the clerk will come back with a a procedural bylaw um you know a amendment that captures that that
75:30 - 76:00 intent. Obviously, members of council can't be required to do anything there. There's no but there but whatever they do do, they're going to be judged for it. Um, but there's also a perception um about about how we conduct ourselves because we're leaders and we want to send a message to all the people that work for the city of Richmond Hill and and um to our
76:00 - 76:30 residents in general that um we are we are uh committed to going back to uh showing up in person and uh dealing dealing with the business of the city in person. But uh the the virtual option is is there in in emergency and and helps with greater participation in the case uh where there's there's medical or other reason to do so. And
76:30 - 77:00 also in the case where um happens happens a lot of times you can attend uh a portion of the meeting in person and then and and still um if you're if you have to leave, you can you can still um you know, you can still tap in and virtually not miss any any portion of the meeting. So, there's a lot of advantages to virtual. I think this motion is just that it shouldn't be abused by members and uh instructs the clerk to write a procedural bylaw that
77:00 - 77:30 that just states that that clearly so we're all on the same page. And I I guess support the motion in that sense. Thank you, councelor Thompson. Uh, thank you very much through you the chair. Um, I want to get some clarification on what the current policy and procedure is and around attending virtually. So my understanding at this point uh was that
77:30 - 78:00 if someone could not attend for whatever reason they're to notify the the clerk's office in advance and I'm not sure what uh what the timing was for that but if I could just get some clarification on what the current policy and procedures is that would be appreciated Mr. Cler. Um thank you uh through the chair. I'll just summarize instead of reading the provisions under uh article 12 of the procedure bylaw specifically section 12.3 members have the choice of whether
78:00 - 78:30 they want to participate in in council or committee the whole meetings in person or electronically or virtually if you want to call it that. Uh the only requirement is that the chair must be in person. uh and that's for administrative uh operational requirements and that if members are choosing to participate virtually they are supposed to give us notice 3 days before the meeting. Um I do gently remind members sometimes when we fail to get that notice. Uh and we'll even you know we're not we're okay uh
78:30 - 79:00 you know a couple days before and that's mostly for administrative reasons as well. So we're planning around the technology operations. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. So through the chair, um yeah, I'm not sure that that 3-day notification is is realistic, but certainly uh providing um notification in advance and what the reason is uh certainly makes sense. I also like the idea that
79:00 - 79:30 that should be in conjunction with the mayor and clerk um in that particular case. So, I'm certainly like uh uh uh 1 C here. Uh 1 A just for some clarification. When I first read this, I looked at this as just being the the three council meetings, the council public meeting, council meeting, or committee of a whole. That's how I interpreted that. Was that the
79:30 - 80:00 intention? Thank you for the question. I didn't put public on there because I do think evenings are different for people for council and if if you're the guy in the house and the kids are upstairs doing their homework, it's very difficult. I did leave that, but I'm happy to add it. But um yeah, it was sometimes we're here till 11:00 at night. So I I did leave that out intentionally, but most of us still come to the public meetings. So yeah. So I mean that that was the one
80:00 - 80:30 where you know the the public because that is one of the ones where the public gets to engage. I would have thought that that was the case here. So I if you were willing to do a friendly amendment and and say include the council public meeting I would certainly be all over that. Um the there was some question about other committees whether it be accessibility committee or or so forth and correct me
80:30 - 81:00 if I'm wrong Mr. clerk, but we already have policies and procedures for each one of those committees, do we not? Mr. Thank you. Uh through the chair, for all other committees, what you might call advisory committees or task force, the the article 12 of the procedure bylaw provides that they choose to be fully in person or fully virtual. Hybrid is not allowed for those and that's administrative reasons uh because to operate technology etc. So those
81:00 - 81:30 committees themselves choose fully in person or fully virtual. Um accessibility uh has more flexibility to comply with the AODD act. Uh they need to uh we need to ensure that we are providing them every opportunity uh to meaningfully participate to comply with our obligations under the accessibility for uh Ontarians with disabilities act. Appreciate that. So for me it comes down to item B. Uh and I appreciate that you
81:30 - 82:00 know looking to set a benchmark here but quite frankly in my opinion the benchmark should be we attend. You know I'm not even sure why we want to say well you can have three where you don't have to attend. I I I really look at it from the standpoint that the intention is that you're to attend and if you can't then you go to item C and that would cover as to why you're you're not
82:00 - 82:30 attending. I'm not really looking at it so much in terms of you know we start keeping a score. Um I think the whole intention is that we should be attending and there should be a uh a very valid reason as to why and and there's a lot of people have actually said here uh a lot of the valid reasons uh which which is fine to me you know I think u you know that that would be the optimum uh approach in my mind so th those are my comments. Thank you. Thank you. So next
82:30 - 83:00 is uh Mayor West. Uh thank you. So, I I'm actually going to propose a compromise here that I I hope will help. But before I do that, um so uh I think I just want to stay I do appreciate the motion because I think that you know it in my mind and particularly somebody that's been through co on council, I I welcome the fact that we're back in person. I think we make better decisions. Um and this council in particular um has worked really really well together. I'm very proud of that. And a lot of it is the fact that we are
83:00 - 83:30 able to be here in person. And I think you you know you get uh better decisions uh by by being together in the same room for the most part. Um but I also acknowledge and this motion does acknowledge that you know sometimes things come up and and we do have um the technology tool available to us now that is uh a virtual I mean I'll never forget the first meetings in CO that we had that were like that that technology was not solidified and it was hard but now
83:30 - 84:00 it's very very common place and it is a good tool. Um, so I I really appreciate the spirit of what's being tried to be accomplished here, but I think you know there is no way to enforce this and um you know and and that's fine um you know to a large degree but um I also want to avoid the possibility that not on this council but maybe at some future time that uh that this whole thing gets weaponized right and that's a problem too um you know because I don't think
84:00 - 84:30 there's any way to make very clear uh enforcement rules around this and I just don't see any way we can do that and and you you acknowledge that counselor and I I appreciate that. Um and I also want to just say that you know the the expectation is that we should be here. It's part of our job and and you know as much as we possibly can and the the public at the end of the day every four years does a job evaluation on all of us and it's really going to be them that really enforces quote unquote uh what
84:30 - 85:00 they see as uh you know the types of things that they want to see in their elected representatives. So with that said, I wonder if the compromise could be to just simply change the word to in a to require uh and change the word require to it is the expectation that members of council attend attend because that really is really what I think we're all struggling with here is that we are expected to be there as much as we possibly can. when we're not there, you
85:00 - 85:30 know, periodically, every now and again, when something comes up and, you know, family emergencies are actually something that's a good point, you know, who knows what life throws at you. Um, but if you're not feeling well, if you, you know, not able to be here for for reasons like that for a few times, you I mean, we understand that. That's fine. So, um, I wonder if if that would be a friendly amendment that that could be made to just change that. And if that does happen, Mr. clerk. Um it's still not enforceable, but in and in fact um
85:30 - 86:00 it's the enforcement piece really isn't necessarily going to be uh that big an issue because it it's pretty obvious that we're not going to be able to enforce it. Does that make sense, Mr. Clerk? Mr. Clerk, thank you. Sure. Certainly, uh, this, as I said, this is council's procedure by law. I think, you know, if if it's council ultimately wants to
86:00 - 86:30 soften the language in here or to set this as expectation as opposed to a rule, um, have staff will draft the amendments to the procedure bylaw accordingly. Um, I would just ask for clarification. Um so I if if if the intent is to make this just an ex uh uh sort of an expectation setting out an expectation um would the same three uh would your
86:30 - 87:00 the same numerical values or anything uh uh or additional attendance uh uh virtual attendance would those apply or just simply because I think that's an important piece of the puzzle well crafting so I guess I mean it's a good question. I mean, I guess really at the end of the day, we could probably get rid of B and C given what I'm suggesting, but B and C also do kind of set out the further define the expectations. Like when we say the expectations, we don't mean under all
87:00 - 87:30 circumstances come, you know, no absolutely no matter what we you have to be there. I mean, we are making reasonable allowances when people can't be there. And that's kind of what B and C say. Now, I I'll leave that up to the mover, but I I think that if you know this really at the end of the day in the procedure bylaw, I mean, you can put it in in whatever form you see fit, Mr. Clerk, but it it's almost a preamble. And I do like the idea that that councelor Silivet said that really maybe
87:30 - 88:00 in the next term of council, the best way would be is to put this in a council pledge um because maybe that's really where it it belongs. But, you know, we're halfway through the term now, so maybe this is the kind of the stop gap measure. Anyway, I I don't know if if Councelor Davidson, if you would be okay with that. If if so, you could do that in in an effort to to be helpful. Oh, uh, exactly. We don't have a friendly amendment. So, is it a formal amendment
88:00 - 88:30 from the mayor and we need to vote on that or just the mover can just change the wordings? for you, Mr. Ch. Um, thank you. Um, through the chair, so OB, a friendly amendment is whatever committee decides a friendly amendment is. And if the mover is proposing on the advice of the mayor to sort of make just some general changes here and committee doesn't object, that's okay. Okay. Uh,
88:30 - 89:00 sounds good. But I kind of have to leave it up to the two of them to Okay. And uh, councelor Davidson, are you happy with uh, changing the wordings on A? Yes. Can I speak to that without it being my last chance? Is this my second round? Uh, not yet. Okay. Uh, yeah, I'm I'm fine with that. I mean, it's the spirit of the thing. And I'm okay with getting rid of B, too, and just keeping C because I mean, I only put B in there to get you guys to do it. So if you guys are if it's a if we're softening the
89:00 - 89:30 language a little bit, I'm the expectation we shouldn't go further than that. So I agree B goes to and would never want to punish or penalize somebody who's not well. So we keep C. Thank you. Okay. Just change the word required to it is expect. Yeah. Are you going to get rid of B? Yeah. Get rid of B and get rid of B. Thank you.
89:30 - 90:00 So, we're still on the first round and uh we're going to wait until the motion is on the screen and then the next speaker is regional and local counselor deputy mayor Chan just Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, don't worry about it. It'll be
90:00 - 90:30 fine. You you capture what you're set about to capture, I think, by doing it that way. And And it's a good point.
90:30 - 91:00 Uh, okay. Um, council members, please uh
91:00 - 91:30 take a look at the screen. Honestly, I don't I don't see it as a minor change. So, uh because I don't want to restrict other council members to comment on this and go straight to the second round and then they can speak again. Would you advice uh Mr. Clerk? Is is it better to have a someone to move an amendment on this one so that we can start discussing this amendment first because I expect
91:30 - 92:00 there might be more amendments coming. Thank you. uh uh to the chair um who is the chair. If you believe that procedurally this would be better presented as an amendment uh to change language, that's absolutely your right to do so. And I would just then remind that uh there is then uh one opportunity of three minutes for each member of council to speak to the amendment before we would get back to the motion. Yeah, that that's exactly why because you're getting rid of B. If
92:00 - 92:30 you're just changing the words from required to an expectation, that's different. Um, I would move it. Okay. Thank you, M. Mr. Mayor. So, Mr. Mayor is moving an amendment on this one. And speaking to the amendment, councelor Davidson, thank you. Can't we just say it is the expectation that you'll come to council like then but not enforceable? I don't know. that just
92:30 - 93:00 totally guts it. Let's just say it, you know, that members of council are expected to attend and that virtual attendance and and I don't know what the acknowledge is like it feels like those those bold butts and to acknowledge really water it down. The expectation is that you come in person and that if you virtual still available for medical inclement I don't know what another valid reason would be. Now it's getting lost.
93:00 - 93:30 Okay. Can I can Can I make a respectful point of order? Councelor Civitz, point of order. Very respectful point of order. Don't do this. Uh, but I think to help all of us, especially the mover of the motion and our clerk, perhaps we should defer this to next week. Don't vote on this now. Just leave it as it is. defer to next week and that will allow although I can I can see our clerk's face is a little bit not happy with that because we now have a a an
93:30 - 94:00 amendment in front of us but we can we can work on that um defer this to to our council meeting next week there's a lot of questions a lot of discussions still to have I believe with our mover and and discussions with with our clerk so and the mayor so I I think if we give ourselves another week without voting on this at U perhaps uh when we come back next week to council um uh through the owners of council Davidson she will have different
94:00 - 94:30 wording here and that can be put forward. So uh Mr. Clerk is that possible through you Mr. Chair. I know it's a long point of order but thank you through the chair. Certainly if committee wants to refer this without recommendation uh uh straight to council uh that's absolutely you're right and and we've done that for other items. Uh the only thing I would clarify to comply with the open meeting rules is that uh this would be essentially for the mover
94:30 - 95:00 and myself to work out what they might wish to bring forward. I I would kindly request that uh the majority member of councils from refrain from providing the suggestions because we don't want to be making decisions absolutely outside of the public. All right. So while Okay. So that's a point of order. That's not a motion to refer. So we still speaking on the amendment. Okay. So I would rather we finish this amendment discussion then if someone wanted to I
95:00 - 95:30 don't know if you can refer an amendment. So at this point if I defer it can I do I make a deferral? Does that stop what's happening through you Mr. Chair? Thank you. I I so you know obviously it's up to the chair. I would advise that you were given the floor for a point of order which is to enforce a rule um not to make a motion at that point in time. Okay. Uh pursuant to the procedure bylaw a member needs to have the floor for essentially anything but a
95:30 - 96:00 point of order uh to so during your speaking time to make that motion. So got it. Uh the chair already has me down for a second round. Thank you. Right. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Uh then let's speak on the amendment first and you know I I rather we have a motion on the floor than we are referring an amendment to next week. So all right so um um counc have the floor. You still have the floor. Yeah. Well I'm confused. So I
96:00 - 96:30 gave my opinions about the amendment. I think the the bold letters I'm I'm not in favor of that. So, is this where I would move to defer or refer or whatever so that we can really hammer down, right? You know, wording that we can all live with. Is this the wrong time? Because I honestly think that's where we're headed. So, why debate this? Okay, Mr. Clerk. So, um, is it possible to refer an amendment to next week? I I found it really odd. So, yeah. So, uh, certainly my advice would be not to do
96:30 - 97:00 it that way to refer amendment. What my advice would be would be to refer the whole item directly to council uh for provide additional time. Um if I might suggest because it actually might be helpful uh if that is council's intent to refer this and and this is simply my advice. you actually might want to allow the discussion on this amendment to clarify what members are thinking uh before referring it which if council referred
97:00 - 97:30 it then we'd have some opport clarif opportunity to clarify what wording might meet those expectations gotcha so if okay if that's the will of council to refer this as next week I think you know correct me if I'm wrong um if Mayor West would like to withdraw the amendment Sure. Then someone move a referral. How's that? Sounds good. All right. Thank you very much. So, uh, councelor, would you like to withdraw your
97:30 - 98:00 amendment? Okay. So, we have the main motion on the floor. Um, actually, um, on the second round, the first speaker is councelor Davidson. So, would you like to rem Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. We still have a my apology. So, we still have regional and local counselor Chen on the first round. So you can move a referral motion if you want. Yeah. Depending on whether we are having referral motion or not. Um because otherwise maybe a bit um premature. Um so if it make it easier that I u I
98:00 - 98:30 respect the mover spirit. I got it. Um now you uh appears to be the mover appears to be agreeable willing to defer to next Wednesday. Um I can move it if but if it's more appropriate I respect is her motion then for her to maybe we defer it may be more appropriate. Okay. But if that's case, I stick my neck out as sometimes I do.
98:30 - 99:00 Uh I stick my neck out and then I will move the uh defer motion of the whole motion member motion to next council meeting and give us a a week to further consult, collaborate and discuss and so on. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much. So we have a motion to refer this to uh Nick's council. Um, anyone would like to speak to the referral? If not, I'm going to call the
99:00 - 99:30 vote and we all see each other on next Wednesday. Okay. Councelor Davidson, I just want to make one comment. Please, council members, my my colleagues, please share with me on an individual basis your thoughts so that we have something that we can all live with and support. Sounds good. Thank you. Okay. So, I'm going to call the vote on the referral to next week. All those in favor carry unanimously. Thank you very much. Can I have a motion to adjourn?