Dave Smith | A Response to Jordan Peterson | Part Of The Problem 1257

Summary

Highlights

• Jordan Peterson's appearance on Joe Rogan sparked a conversation about psychopathic behavior and the rise of anti-Semitism accusations. 🔍
• Dave Smith aligns with Peterson's cultural insights but critiques his approach to political matters, especially censorship. 📚
• Smith advocates for free speech and challenges the premise of gatekeeping in media dialogues. 🎙️
• The discussion underscores the complexities within societal power structures and the necessity of nuanced debate. 💥
• Smith reiterates the imperative of addressing both sides of an argument to find common ground and solutions. 🤝

Key Takeaways

• Smith praises Peterson's cultural contributions but warns against oversimplifying complex issues without considering all perspectives. 🤔
• He stresses the importance of including diverse voices in public discourse and criticizes the tendency to gatekeep conversations. 🚪
• Points out the significance of addressing grievances within radical groups to foster better understanding and solutions. 🌱
• Expresses concern over the dehumanization of marginalized groups, urging a balanced approach to critique. 🕊️
• Emphasizes the role of power dynamics in shaping public narratives and the importance of accountability. 🏛️

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 02:00: Introduction and Personal Updates In this introduction, Dave Smith kicks off a new episode of 'Part of the Problem' solo, as his co-host Rob is not present. He expresses excitement about the upcoming topic and reminds the audience about his upcoming tour dates.
• 02:00 - 04:00: Upcoming Comedy Tour The chapter discusses an upcoming comedy tour by the speaker who expresses excitement about performing at their favorite venue, the American Comedy Company in San Diego, from May 1st to 3rd. Despite concerns about travel and discomfort from a plane ride, the speaker is enthusiastic about the upcoming shows. Following this, they will perform for the first time at the Skyline Comedy Club in Apple, Wisconsin.
• 04:00 - 08:00: Response to Jordan Peterson's Discussion on Joe Rogan Experience The speaker expresses excitement about visiting Apple for the first time and mentions upcoming comedy shows, particularly highlighting a big show at Comedy Works in Denver. The speaker, along with Robbie the Fire Bernstein, will be performing multiple shows throughout the year, inviting the audience to join them for a fun experience.
• 08:00 - 11:00: Thoughts on Jordan Peterson and Politics The chapter begins with the speaker discussing an interaction with listeners of the show. The main focus, however, is on Jordan Peterson's appearance on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast. The speaker mentions the timing of the episode's release but does not delve into specific topics or discussions that were covered during the podcast.
• 11:00 - 15:00: Critique of Psychopathy and Anti-Semitism Discussion The chapter discusses a critique around psychopathy and anti-Semitism involving a rant that addresses several recurring themes the speaker has engaged with, including a debate with Douglas Murray. It also comments on larger trends such as the decline of traditional media and the concurrent rise of the podcast scene.
• 15:00 - 19:00: Media Representation and Bias The chapter titled 'Media Representation and Bias' initiates a discussion on various ideas presented by an unnamed individual, presumably Jordan Peterson, based on the speaker's immense respect for him. The speaker reflects on certain topics that they found interesting and worthy of response, hinting at the existence of related social media engagement on the matter. The conversation likely revolves around media portrayal and inherent biases, but specific details from the chapter excerpt are not disclosed.
• 19:00 - 25:00: Gatekeeping and Free Speech The chapter discusses the importance of certain cultural intellectual figures, focusing on one individual's rise as a significant cultural and intellectual influence. The recognition of their work, particularly a book called 'Maps of Meaning,' is highlighted as phenomenal and noteworthy for its impact on cultural discourse. The conversation seems to revolve around the influence of intellectual figures on free speech and the gatekeeping roles they play.
• 25:00 - 31:00: Power Dynamics and Oppression The chapter discusses the rise of an influential figure who gained fame around 2017. This person's significance stemmed from standing up against extreme aspects of what is described as 'woke college insanity.' The narrative emphasizes the critical role and importance of this individual as a voice during that period.
• 31:00 - 37:00: Rogan's Guest Selection and Podcasting This chapter delves into Joe Rogan's criteria for selecting guests on his podcast, particularly focusing on the influence and significance of Jordan Peterson. It considers the hypothetical scenario of the last decade without Peterson and suggests that his absence would have resulted in a more negative cultural landscape. The chapter also discusses differing political views and highlights Peterson's impact as a Jungian psychologist, emphasizing his contributions to cultural commentary and discussions on life's meaning.
• 37:00 - 43:00: Personal Reflections and Critique on Right-Wing Figureheads The chapter titled 'Personal Reflections and Critique on Right-Wing Figureheads' delves into the speaker's critical examination of a prominent right-wing figure. The speaker expresses that this figure often faltered when he entered political discussions, which unfortunately impacted his legacy. Despite this, the speaker acknowledges that the figure wasn't always misguided in his political commentary. The figure has also made accurate analyses on certain topics like economics, cryptocurrency, and messianic economics, showcasing his strengths in these areas through various podcasts.
• 43:00 - 44:30: Closing Remarks and Sponsor Promotion The chapter reflects on some of Jordan Peterson's political missteps, particularly in areas like COVID policies and foreign affairs. The speaker expresses regret that Peterson joined The Daily Wire, indicating a belief that his earlier career decisions were more favorable. Despite these criticisms, the speaker maintains a deep respect for Peterson's work and contributions.

Dave Smith | A Response to Jordan Peterson | Part Of The Problem 1257 Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] what's up what's up everybody welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem i am Dave Smith rob is off today i am running solo um but looking forward to today's show i think I got an interesting uh uh topic to get into before we get the show started I should uh remind you good folks that I will be uh back out on the road again soon
• 00:30 - 01:00 enough um my my lower back is dreading it but I I will be in San Diego uh back at the American Comedy Company May 1st through 3rd uh this is one of my favorite clubs in the freaking country so really looking forward to uh to the shows out there not so much the plane ride but the shows I'm very much looking forward to and then after that I will be uh for the first time ever at the Skyline Comedy Club in Apple Wisconsin
• 01:00 - 01:30 it's my first time I'm ever going to Apple so really looking forward to that uh comic Dave Smith uh.com is the website if you want to go grab tickets please head over there and then next up after that is the big one is uh Comedy Works in Denver really looking forward to that one as well it's got a bunch of dates for the rest of the year uh Robbie the Fire Bernstein will be with me on all of those shows so if you want to come see the two of us please do um it's really a lot of fun and I love uh I I really love going on the road with Rob
• 01:30 - 02:00 and and meeting a lot of the you guys uh who listen to the show okay so I wanted to um on today's episode and maybe if we have time I'll I'll get into a couple other things um but I wanted to talk about this um so Jordan Peterson uh did the Joe Rogan Experience yesterday and um or it came out yesterday maybe they did it two days ago but there was um a a point that or or like a um a little mini
• 02:00 - 02:30 rant that that he went on um that kind of was hitting on a lot of the topics that we've been talking about um of course you know like it hit on specifically hit on the the debate I had with Douglas Murray it also um just you know became a comment on this broader theme of like you know the the collapse of the legacy media and the rise of the podcast scene and you know all all of
• 02:30 - 03:00 these things and I I thought it was kind of interesting and I wanted to to kind of respond to it and and go over some of the ideas that he put forward and I should say at the beginning of this I I posted a a a tweet earlier today on this topic but I should say that um so I am uh I do have uh immense respect for Jordan Peterson and I think he is absolutely brilliant
• 03:00 - 03:30 um like an incredibly an incredibly intelligent individual and I I always thought that he was um particularly during his rise I thought that he was one of if not the most important cultural intellectual figures um and his his stuff on uh his his book Maps of Meaning was phenomenal um I thought his
• 03:30 - 04:00 whole rise to to fame um around I guess it was around 2017ish where he was kind of standing up to the most insane excesses of woke college insanity was I I mean like to say it it was important would be a a huge understatement it was um crucial he was like a critical voice um I would I would not want to replay
• 04:00 - 04:30 the last 10 years and like run it run an experiment with no Jordan Peterson there i think things turn out much worse if it wasn't for this guy and while I've often um disagreed with him on political issues and and if I'm being quite frank I always felt that he was a much more powerful force a as um as a youngian psychologist who was commenting on culture and um and meaning in life i I
• 04:30 - 05:00 always felt that when he got when when he got into politics it was where he always stumbled and where it it it unfortunately at times I think took away from his his legacy um you know I uh and that that's not to say that he's always wrong when he's talking about politics i mean he's there's been things that I think he's really nailed um and and he's done podcasts on economics and on cryptocurrency and on messian economics
• 05:00 - 05:30 and I thought were really phenomenal but it is where the political realm is where he ended up getting a lot of things wrong like you know falling for the uh the you know COVID nonsense for a bit or um you know foreign policy things like that um and it's just it's a shame in a way to me like I wish he had never gone to the Daily Wire and I wish he had stayed there but okay whatever that's just me anyway because I do have enormous respect for Jordan Peterson and because
• 05:30 - 06:00 uh I I know his views on Israel and I know that he works at the Daily Wire right now I was uh and also just knowing what's been going on over the last few weeks when I saw he was on I was like well there's no way this didn't come up so let me buckle myself you know for what Dr peterson's going to throw at me so I was somewhat pleasantly surprised that that was not how it went and that he just gave you know he gave me a compliment in passing and then uh talked about the other stuff he was going to
• 06:00 - 06:30 say so anyway I was a little bit just full disclosure here as I like to be honest with my audience i was a little bit relieved about that but then he went on to make a point that I did um I found a bit concerning and so I wanted to play this clip and kind of give my thoughts on it um because I think it's uh I think there's something important that Jordan is missing here and I think it's important for for people to be aware of it and so I you
• 06:30 - 07:00 know with the audience I got I'm going to do my best um to try to make that happen so let's start the clip uh and then I'll I'll jump in when I feel it necessary and so this is like I can really see this starting to happen on the right like I've been tracking psychopathic behavior on the right for probably four years something like that especially on the anti-semitic side because that's really where it reared its head first and there's nothing more annoying than a successful minority
• 07:00 - 07:30 right now that's part of it i I'm going to here i must get myself in trouble right away too yeah for sure well this is a very real subject well yeah it's a Yeah it's a real terrible subject it's interesting because if you don't criticize it enough you're compromised if you if you criticize you know it's like when it comes to anti-semitism like it's one of those things where you can't separate a a it's it's a religion and
• 07:30 - 08:00 it's also a race and it's also a government that's where things get weird right right and then there's also the concept of intelligence agencies and compromise that also gets attached to it manipulation of world markets and money and there's a lot to unpack and then there's regular Jewish people nothing to do well Jews too are they're very successful and so what you would expect from a purely statistical point of view is you'd expect them to be over
• 08:00 - 08:30 represented at the extreme they're also a walled garden right meaning meaning it's very difficult to join they don't proitize they don't try to get you to join and they're all very tightly knit they call themselves the clan they're all like locked in the you know Jewish clan not not KKK the problem with that term has been compromised by the Kukux clan you know but I mean it as terms of tribe community yeah community they're very tight-knit obviously of Nazi German in Eastern Europe like Yeah you have All
• 08:30 - 09:00 right hold on can you pause it for a second Natalie is it of course is it all choppy for you all these complex things are um Okay okay so just like a couple thoughts um on on what was said so far so you know and maybe I'll hold off on this second point until a little bit later in the uh in the clip okay uh let me say this so there's you know Jordan Peterson is talking about um paying attention to um
• 09:00 - 09:30 um you know psychotic uh behavior on the right and that's fair you know fair enough i mean there's I certainly see a lot of this all over the place we could kind of get back into that in a second i do think that like when if you're going to attempt to do this to like tackle the idea of anti-semitism um on uh on the internet I suppose is
• 09:30 - 10:00 what we're talking about here um I'm not sure really where else people are claiming it's happened or college protests or something like that at least that's where people claim it it happens there's I I think it's important to like if you want to get into this and you want to come on Joe Rogan's show and start like kind of pushing back against this and I've said this for many years now um and again you know for whatever it's worth not that it matters but like I'm I'm Jewish and I I don't like Jew hatred and so okay it's fine to to bring
• 10:00 - 10:30 this up and try to smack it down i think there's nothing wrong with that necessarily but I do think you you're going to be coming from a very weak position like again this is kind of it's kind of true for any group if you really want to take them down I think what you're going to have to do is address what their issues are and I don't that I think I feel like sometimes people are afraid to do this this has always come very natural to me and I've never bought
• 10:30 - 11:00 into the argument that you can't do this because it could you know create fertile ground for some type of hatred or something but almost every like um dissident group every radical group they almost always have um like they have a list of grievances almost always some of them are reasonable almost always some of them are not it's a fairly simple statement but it's almost always the case i suppose there could be exceptions where
• 11:00 - 11:30 that's not the case but if you're going to like take them on then I think the way to do that is to like admit the legitimate grievances that they have and then point out the error of their ways i think Joe gets much closer to this here than than Jordan does um and there's you know to say like that Jews are highly successful I mean that is true but you know that's
• 11:30 - 12:00 also true for other minority groups where you don't see this rise in um distrust or hatred or whatever you want to call it um there's you know Asian-Americans are killing it um and there's lots of subgroups within AsianAmericans who are just doing really great far better than the native population far better than like American white people and in fact this was uh this was always one of the go-to talking
• 12:00 - 12:30 points against people who were arguing with woke leftists back years ago when that used to happen um before they were totally discredited but they would say "Hey we live in a white supremacist society." And then some right-winger some conservative would say "Well if we live in a white supremacist society why you know what's the evidence of that?" And they'd say "Well white people make more money they have higher net uh net worths they have higher you know whatever higher education all these things and they'd say okay but like Indians beat white people so then aren't
• 12:30 - 13:00 we an Indian supremacist country like this would always be that but yet over this last 18 months or so nobody is really claiming that we've seen a dramatic rise in anti-Asian hate um and there's even like other there's other subgroups in America that are doing very very well and So to just look at that like isolating that one cause doesn't seem to to really tell us much
• 13:00 - 13:30 of anything um and then like at the same time over these last 18 months you've seen this horrific military onslaught in Gaza that is being completely funded and armed and propped up by our country this is something that crosses both political um parties right joe Biden initiated the policy donald Trump is continuing the policy it's not a it's not a Democrat or
• 13:30 - 14:00 Republican issue it and it is like a third rail that you are you know I know people like to nitpick i'm going to say you're not allowed to talk about I shouldn't say you're not allowed to talk about it but let's just say there is a a steep penalty to talking about it and for many many years before the rise of the podcast scene he was just simply like nobody was just going to talk about it was just like you're gone you're not allowed to do that anymore um I don't know how anyone could look at
• 14:00 - 14:30 this and not think that that's at the heart of the of the matter here or at least a major major contributing factor to what's going on and so I'm just saying if you want to like take on people for for you know being anti-Semitic I don't really think you're actually even engaging in that conversation if you just say oh they're successful and everybody's jealous of them i mean like even within like the people even within the community of people who like uh you would put into
• 14:30 - 15:00 that category there is you know there there's you you would hear all the time if you listen to them talking about how over represented Jewish people are in banking and media you hear a lot made of pornography um these different areas i've never once heard any of the Jew haters make a big deal about how Jews are over represented in dentistry they also are overwhelmingly over represented overwhelmingly over represented in dentistry
• 15:00 - 15:30 um and you make pretty good living being a good dentist you're probably going to make I I'd guess like five times the you know median household income um okay so why don't we hear a lot of complaints about that because it it it's you know dentistry is not hurting our society they're just kind of fixing people's cracked tooths and then they're happy that they got their tooth fixed and so they go like I'm just making the
• 15:30 - 16:00 point that like there is some other element to this here now and if you're going to be you know disproportionately involved in banking disproportionately involved in media disproportionately involved in war making you do you can see where that's going to lead to more of a hatred of your group now I still think that's hatred is irrational and for the exact reasons that that Joe laid out it's like well what are we talking about when we talk about Jews you know are you talking
• 16:00 - 16:30 about a religion or a people or a government or you know figures that are very powerful within our government and then as Joe correctly says and then there's just regular people there's just regular people have nothing to do with any of that now of course on on some level like this is the logical conclusion of this is just like that individualism should win out the day people are innocent or guilty ba as individuals based on their actions not based on their collective group however
• 16:30 - 17:00 when you're talking about these things you do tend to understand that unfortunately that's not the way that most human beings interact with the world now it's by our very nature that we're pattern recognizing creatures and that can be good and that also can be bad and it's very dangerous and I think that a lot of the people who um uh fall into this camp do have a tendency to start with their conclusion and that's the problem with pattern recognition you
• 17:00 - 17:30 know it's you can't just you know it's like feminists could sit there and say like uh you know we live in a you know patriarchal sexist society that oppresses women and then they go well look as evidence of this 90% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are men it's like okay but you're starting with your conclusion and then working backward because that doesn't really prove anything about how our society is maledominated it certainly doesn't it's the Fortune 500 CEOs is not a
• 17:30 - 18:00 comment on what life is like for men it's a comment on what life is like for 500 men the top 500 men like this is your average guy has absolutely nothing to do with that and so I think there's a similar thing there there's a similar argument that that you can make with Jewish people and it's like whatever you think about the government of Israel or the the Israel lobby's influence on the American government whatever you think about what's happening to the people uh uh of in Gaza like that really does have
• 18:00 - 18:30 nothing to do with Barry the accountant who lives down the street and like it's insane to hold him responsible in some way for that okay like I do think that is the correct answer but at the same time if you um if you lived into in a neighborhood and um like a a large black population moved in and they started committing like rapes and assaults and murders at wildly disproportionate rates
• 18:30 - 19:00 and then you saw a rise in antilack racism I don't think I would look at that and say like geez I cannot put together what's going on here like I do not see one thing as being a major factor in the other now obviously it's still in that situation very unfair to just blame some black dude who moved in who didn't kill or rape or or rob anybody like okay we could be against that too but if we're going to have a conversation about why there's this rise in in racism here you're probably going
• 19:00 - 19:30 to have to address the elephant in the room all right guys let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show a brand new sponsor who I'm absolutely thrilled to have on board and that is Blackout Coffee stop drinking garbage coffee and get yourself some Blackout today this stuff is delicious i'm a bit of a coffee snob and I will tell you I love this stuff blackhouse coffee is roasted right here in the USA and the company is run by people who love liberty who love the Constitution and love the United States of America so
• 19:30 - 20:00 stop drinking this garbage coffee from big corporations and go over to Blackout Coffee and right now if you use the promo code problem you'll get 20% off your first order that's right 20% off at blackout coffee.com/pro when you use the promo code problem they also have the canned cold brew which I am a big fan of guys try some of this stuff i think you're going to love it just like I do go to
• 20:00 - 20:30 blackoutcop.com/pro and use the promo code problem and you're going to get 20% off your next order that's blackoutcopy.com/pros use the promo code problem for 20% off get some great coffee support people who support Liberty and America and drink coffee that doesn't suck all right let's get back into the show so I' I'd start with that all right let's uh let's keep playing of the things I was trying to figure out when I was watching that is
• 20:30 - 21:00 certainly didn't walk away from it with that idea in mind but then underneath all that I thought there's really a there's a really unbelievably tricky problem here and I think that's why it's made it it it poked up into well you also set that conversation up but it manifest in that conversation the psychopathic pretenders and it's even worse now and and then make a barrier now the right was calling for the left to do that for decades and they didn't and they couldn't and the left is not
• 21:00 - 21:30 good at drawing barriers partly temperamentally the right is somewhat better but there's no shortage of monstrosity there and and so then the question is how do you how do you draw the line and that's kind of what I was cuz I've been watching these right-wing they're not right-wing these psychopathic types manipulate the edge of the conservative movement for their own gain and a lot of that's cloaked in anti-semitic guys there's plenty of anti-semitism on the
• 21:30 - 22:00 left too by the way so it's not unique to the right particularly now yes yes yes particularly now and so you know you've let your curiosity guide you your curiosity and your desire for knowledge this quest here let's let's pause let that guide you as a podcast i'm by the way I'm trying to work through exactly all right so um All right let me give my thoughts on this so first of all I do as I kind of alluded to um at the beginning of the show I did
• 22:00 - 22:30 appreciate that I thought it was like a nice gesture that he said that that he went you know I watched your discussion i thought all three of you guys did a very good job i I I looked at it like could I have done any better and I didn't leave feeling like I could have that was a that was a kind gesture of him i appreciate that as I said before it was that is as good as I could possibly hope for from a Daily Wire employee to say about that specific debate now leaving aside the fact that nobody in the world like thinks that
• 22:30 - 23:00 there's just nobody there's nobody who thinks that both me and Douglas did a really good job in this debate but whatever that that's fine and it was nice enough that he said that um but I thought that this next kind of section that he goes to of saying like you know you guys were were navigating very difficult water and that um you know there's this problem of keeping the psychopaths out and then it's it's almost seems the way he's putting it that that's like synonymous with
• 23:00 - 23:30 anti-semitism like you know prejudice against Jews and being a psychopath are the same thing or something like I'm not saying he exactly makes that claim but it's like that's the group he's concerned when it comes to psychopaths and here this is my issue that I've always had with this uh way of looking at things um as uh um the Jeff Dice responded to my tweet earlier today the brilliant Jeff Dice and I thought he uh he said something
• 23:30 - 24:00 along the lines I'm probably going to butcher this and not say it as well as him but he said something along the lines of um he goes uh gatekeepers have a tendency to um confuse the the push back for the push it was just kind of an interesting thought now the way the way I look at this and by the way this is as I've said many times before and I will not stop saying this is the reason why I hate the term what aboutism um again not that there's not ever a scenario where
• 24:00 - 24:30 you're just interjecting something that's irrelevant and changing the subject and you want to stay on subject but so often the the overwhelming majority of the time that I ever see the term whataboutism used it is essentially to attempt to not allow someone to put something into context and so you know if you um if you're giving a report to uh you know the the
• 24:30 - 25:00 cops and you go "Oh yes I saw this guy punch that guy in the face." And then someone points out like "Yeah but that guy punched him in the face first." And you go "What aboutism?" It's like "No no no that's not what aboutism that's like we're talking about exactly what's going on in this conflict." And you kind of can't you can't just look at one side of it like I I have no problem ever with anybody having a standard i mean I may not exactly agree with everybody's standard but I certainly have no problem
• 25:00 - 25:30 with having a standard all I'm saying is that you have to apply that standard across the board equally or do your best to do that and so what I've seen and I've seen a lot of this over the last 18 months or so is that people who are very supportive of what Israel is doing of of Israel's destruction of Gaza people who support that and who support Israel's
• 25:30 - 26:00 government are very quick to point out the kind of dehumanizing bigotry aimed at Jewish people and again I'm not saying that there's no you know I don't like that that's about me and my group i I'm not a fan of that obviously but I can also recognize that it's like well wait hold on what I'm seeing here is an over is is a massive attempt on both sides to dehumanize the
• 26:00 - 26:30 other side okay so that's like the first starting point it's like um there like there is it's I saw it today on my Twitter feed and it's just so funny to be it's I I just happen to see them and my Twitter's been blowing up so much it's just like not even fun anymore you can't follow anything i finally starting to understand what it's like for these people who have like really big followings it's not f Twitter i've said this before was the most fun around 50,000 uh around 50,000 um followers
• 26:30 - 27:00 that's when it's at its best um but so I saw today and literally I just happened to see it it's like I saw one and then I hit refresh and then it scrolls up and then I saw another one and they were like the exact same tweet and it but but one about Muslims one about Jews that it's just kind of like they're all bad you can't trust any of them we had to destroy them all there's like there's this effort made all around and the thing that I have just you know I've
• 27:00 - 27:30 just noticed this a lot like there is a different you know in in a weird sense i think we all kind of have our our priors and our our biases and there's it I think there's just not nearly not nearly the sensitivity to anti-Muslim bigotry or anti-Palestinian bigotry that there is to anti-Jewish bigotry i mean I think
• 27:30 - 28:00 this is just like undeniably the case and the amount like you know when you again Donald Trump the president of the United States of America called Joe Biden and um and Chuck Schumer Palestinians as an insult like as as an attack like you're them i mean think about that for a second like like think about this is the um the the worst thing you could accuse
• 28:00 - 28:30 one of the gropers of doing you know like is is what the president of the United States did just on the other side of the coin you know like it'd be like the it'd be the equivalent of getting up there and being like "This guy's a Jew." Like to someone who's not Jewish but meaning it as an insult don't even listen to anything else this guy says like you would I mean you'd be quite surprised to to see that and even when I just say it like that you just think about how um beyond the realm of even
• 28:30 - 29:00 comprehension like like beyond it like if I say that I go "What would it have been like if in a presidential debate one of the candidates just looked over at the other one and said "This guy's basically a Jew." You can't even conceive of that being the case and yet we literally just saw it happen when it was Palestinian and really wasn't even a big story wasn't even like a thing i made hay out of it i don't know how many other people did i think Crystal and and Sager over
• 29:00 - 29:30 at uh at Breaking Points did but not too many more it wasn't like a major news story or nothing i mean I see this type of this type of language all over the place and I think that Daryl Cooper in his prologue to the World War II series got it right he got it right when he was just like "This is like a spirit that animates people." And it's a very evil spirit it's the It's the spirit that leads to the worst atrocities in human history where you can like find a way to
• 29:30 - 30:00 tell yourself that this entire group of people is just dehumanized and then once you do that well what really are are crimes against them there's not just one side to this and you know it's it's so like because you think about it like this like you're you're talking about gatekeeping and finding a way to how how
• 30:00 - 30:30 do we know you know who Joe Rogan is supposed to have on and who he's not supposed to have on and don't you know there's psychopaths out there and you don't want to have any of them on if we're having a conversation about uh psych about about um psychopaths um and Jordan Peterson you know who I do I think it's like I got to say I'm a little for for somebody who's like a clinical psychologist you're it's kind of throwing this diagnosis out there rather loosely now I understand that's not technically a a diagnosis but you
• 30:30 - 31:00 you get my point um I think that it's like well let's okay let's be really specific if we're going to do this let's be really specific and let's not only focus on one side of this issue let's look at like the the entirety of it and if we're talking about there being psychopaths who need to be gatekept explain to me how the people who are advocating that we drop bombs on babies are not like the first candidate for
• 31:00 - 31:30 that that job they're not like the first ones we'd look at and be like "How about the people who have advocated for five disastrous wars in a row that they all said would go great and all turned into catastrophes and are now advocating for the next one with no sense of humility about the five disasters they just advocated for does that not rise to the level of being considered or is it only when people say mean stuff about Jews on Twitter?" You know like I'm
• 31:30 - 32:00 listen like I said my bias is I don't like the mean stuff about Jews but I'm just like I I can't just be I can't be a liar i can't just be inconsistent on this and and then it's actually much worse than that it's even much much worse than that because it's not just that like you have one side who's you know like advocating for bombing the crap out of people and you're not considering them or you're not bringing up any of the deal but it is so much
• 32:00 - 32:30 more like as I said with the Donald Trump example it is so much more um it's so much uglier and it's so there's so much more power behind it you know like when we're gonna when we're looking for say these um these cluster B uh psychopathic tendencies and and we're looking at Well that is one thing to consider for sure but also like there like means and power and ability to do
• 32:30 - 33:00 the thing are are a huge component to it as well you know like it is quite possible that there were more or as evil people as Adolf Hitler who just never rose to being the you know the furer of of Germany was just some guy just some poor guy maybe he would have killed a whole lot of people if he had had the opportunity but he just never had the opportunity to and history does not
• 33:00 - 33:30 concern itself as much with that person we're a bit more concerned with the one who actually became the furer you know what I mean um and so there's like that matters too and I I do just think that when you're going to you're going to look at a target of like who are the bad guys who must be kept out and you're picking on the the push back the reactionary movement and and fine like you can look at their worst excesses and
• 33:30 - 34:00 and there's a lot to critique there i'm not you know I'm not denying that but like compared to what and who's really who's really got power behind them who's got like the force of government policy behind them it sure as hell ain't them you know and I like as I've said before I've at this point now I've done uh many public debates on the topic of Israel and Palestine and I've watched many
• 34:00 - 34:30 other public debates so too many to even remember how many um and I have in in my experience personally I've had two people at least two different people who I've debated well three okay I think three people that I've debated have straight up with no uh qualifications um or qualifiers with no
• 34:30 - 35:00 um uh you They've just argued to me that these people have no rights i mean said that out loud exp explicitly that's their argument these Palestinian people have no rights they're savages they're less than human they're I mean maybe they wouldn't say the words less than human but they would say savages it's a clash of civilization they're on the wrong they they've forfeit all their rights we
• 35:00 - 35:30 have a right to do whatever we want to them prominent people have have said that you know like we've got like I mean you're talking about psychopathic behavior nikki Haley was signing the bombs signing the bombs that are about to be dropped on children i am sorry that ranks on a different level than a groper on the internet talking [ __ ] to me you know what I mean like I'm sorry they're talking [ __ ] to me but I could still sit here and say like "Yeah this
• 35:30 - 36:00 just isn't really that high on the level of concerns." And like okay if if after we've dealt with all that other [ __ ] and like called out all of them if you want to call out that griper talking [ __ ] to me too okay fine i don't have a problem with that you know but like it is a little bit wild to to scope out the landscape here to survey the whole landscape and then come away with like I know who the psychopaths are it's these guys make it make sense to me all right guys
• 36:00 - 36:30 let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show which is My Patriot Supply i love this company let me ask you something if the grocery store shelves went empty tomorrow would your family be ready this is a question that I think about a lot and that's why I trust my Patriot Supply with my family's food security and here's why they've helped millions of Americans prepare for the worst and they have over 70,000 five-star reviews personally I like their three-month emergency food kits i like to have them on hand and right now you can get it for $200 off
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• 37:00 - 37:30 only for a limited time so don't wait prepareith.com is the website go there right now get peace of mind while it's still available at preparewithsmith.com all right let's get back into the show you know like the it's I'm sorry this is just a little bit too nutty for me and like the um again there's the uh what's the guy's name um Randy Randy Fine I want to say is that
• 37:30 - 38:00 Cong a congressman down in Florida and he tweeted somebody uh like you know I don't want to butcher exactly what it was but it was something pretty close to being this bad like someone sent him you know like a on Twitter you know cuz he's like a a very pro-Israel guy and supports the the destruction of Gaza as if someone sent him like a picture of like a a dead baby in Gaza and he like responded by uh being like "Great let's see some more." Like holy
• 38:00 - 38:30 [ __ ] you know now if can you imagine can you imagine if someone had said that about like one of the dead people on October 7th it was a sitting member of Congress can you imagine the [ __ ] storm i mean like if if uh if if Elon Omar utters the words from the river to the sea that'll be national news but looking it like looking at a dead child and being like great and this and that guy got an
• 38:30 - 39:00 endorsement from the president of the United States a couple days after that talk about dehumanizing bigotry i mean all right there there's there's some competition going around here and again like you know one of them are actually going like like there's just again there's just something if you were if you were uh teleported and I know people will say this is like uh like you know idiots
• 39:00 - 39:30 will say this is like a lefty argument or something like that but it's really not it's really not it's just a human argument and it's very um it it's uh it's just obviously that power has something to do with this has something to do with this equation and who is being oppressed has something to do with this equation and you know a lot of times and this is one of the very unfortunate things in this kind of post um woke world that we're living in is that critical race theory which is
• 39:30 - 40:00 [ __ ] um genuinely is just very very stupid theory like it's really really dumb you can't believe intellectuals ever like even allowed this to to develop the way it did but because the claim of critical race theory is that all of the world is seen through oppressor verse oppressed and that every human interaction must be an oppressor verse an oppressed now that's very stupid because it's not true and it
• 40:00 - 40:30 completely ignores win-win relationships which happen all around us all around us uh romantic relationships are win-win relationships friendships are win typically you know unless they're like you know um toxic but generally speaking they certainly can be win-win relationships market transactions are tend to be win-win uh relationships uh literally had a I I always think about this because my dumb you know autistic libertarian brain but I always think I
• 40:30 - 41:00 love every thank you thank you moment that you ever have i literally had one with uh Natalie the other day where we were here it's like we finish the show and um and whatever we leave she was like editing it together to get it ready and I was like "Okay I'm going to run upstairs blah blah blah." You know so and uh and I went "Thank you." And she goes "Thank you." Because that's what a win-win relationship is we're voluntarily in this relationship like I need a good producer she wants a job we're both working together there's not an oppressor or oppressed here like
• 41:00 - 41:30 that's just not that okay so critical race theory is stupid however it's equally stupid to pretend that nobody's ever oppressed and nobody's ever the oppressor and so like you know you get this a lot if you ever say like "Oh this group is oppressed." Now people go "Oh you sound like you're critical race theory." It's like "No dummy you don't know what you're talking about." And so like if you were to take a time machine and go back to you know
• 41:30 - 42:00 1820 and you uh um you know you were sitting around a a a room with a like a slave owner and him and his buddies who are all slave owners were just talking about how stupid black people are and how they're not human and how you could do whatever you want to them and all that you you you might have a certain feeling about that and how disgusting that is and if you then went to the slave quarters and they were sitting around talking about how terrible white people are and how white people are garbage and blah blah blah while you may
• 42:00 - 42:30 not agree with it you might have a slightly different feeling about their bigotry you know what I'm saying like it's just it's a little bit different to like be the group who's being dumped on versus the one doing the dumping and also being racist it's just different and so I do and this this is just my own view on this i do find it to be substantially more disturbing to be spreading this like dehumanization of the Palestinians while they are just
• 42:30 - 43:00 getting [ __ ] up like there's something more disturbing to me about that level of bigotry while they are just getting so goddamn slaughtered i just So for that reason like it's like what's actually going on who actually has the power and who actually is exhibiting the most psychotic behavior here you would think that would come into it to some degree although it doesn't um all right let's
• 43:00 - 43:30 uh let's let's keep playing from the clip and I'll probably have some more to respond to the same sort of thing um how do you know given your rap radical increase in stature over the last 10 years how do you know when your curiosity and even your skepticism about the fact that things aren't the way that people say they are because that's certainly been demonstrated in the last 10 years how do you how should anyone decide what guard
• 43:30 - 44:00 rails to put up like what do you look for do you do do you have a a conceptual system worked out for that like in what what do you mean in what way well how do I look for in terms of people to talk to yeah yeah because you have this insanely immense platform and you're inviting people onto it and you know you said to Douglas and I know this to be true that you're not really thinking about the outcome exactly you're thinking about
• 44:00 - 44:30 this is an interesting person to talk to and I'd like to go on that quest but then you have the additional conundrum we're trying to work this out in the Daily Wire side of things too not to say that that's exactly the same situation it's like once you gain in reach and authority then how do you know that how do you take great care that the people you're talking to
• 44:30 - 45:00 aren't what would you say eliciting or feeding a subculture yeah that's right that that hasn't got the proper aims m like I guess the legacy media probably worked that out by having people mediators right and guests and that was also back when we could rely on the structures of authority in some sense to filter and now we're in this helter
• 45:00 - 45:30 skelter world where everything is the legacy is the worst at that now yeah I know they're the worst at which is fascinating you know it really is it's really fascinating when Yeah the um Okay so one thing here that um I think at a at a different section um Joe did kind of address um like he brought it up but I don't think that the conversation really stayed there for that long if I'm remembering correctly but you know again I just think like all of
• 45:30 - 46:00 these the kind of like assumptions that are built into some of the you know the the worldview that Jordan is is espousing here I I think are perhaps incorrect and one of them is that the legacy media used to have a system of doing this so that we could trust them um I I think that a much more accurate way to look at it is that they were never
• 46:00 - 46:30 trustworthy and I I think part of like don't get me wrong because there are as Jordan correctly said there are many variables here um and and part of what's happened is like there's like a whole bunch of things have happened at once number one there's been a tremendous atrophy amongst the American elites they are we just do not I mean the the group of elites that have had large amounts of power over the last 15 to 20 years are a
• 46:30 - 47:00 truly unimpressive group and we produced much more impressive elites in previous generations also at the same time and related to that the country has been spinning out of control in many different ways um what you can look at of course the debt and the uh um the the prolonged wars and the it you know insane COVID response and the debasing of the currency and there's just there's there's much more um I think there are
• 47:00 - 47:30 many more existential uh problems uh not that there weren't some in in the past but the all of this happened with the rise of the technology that allowed for this massive decentralized kind of media movement and so now people are almost at the point where they go like "All right well they've been lying us about everything for the last decade maybe they've been lying every about everything for the last 20 years maybe the last 25 years." But you know like in
• 47:30 - 48:00 your mind somewhere you're like 40 years ago 50 years ago that's when you could trust Edward R muro and all these guys but I don't actually think that's the case i think that back then we just had uh slightly more impressive elites um they had the media um apparatus locked down and the American people were much more gullible and we were less at risk we're America we're on top of the world it's just what are you going to do complain about this no the economy is going pretty good all right guys let's take a moment and thank
• 48:00 - 48:30 our sponsor for today's show which is Tax Network USA tax Day may have passed but for millions of Americans the real trouble is just beginning if you missed the April 15th deadline or still owe back taxes the IRS is ramping up enforcement every day you wait only makes things worse with over 5,000 new tax leans filed daily and tools like property seizures bank levies and wage garnishments the IRS is applying pressure at levels we haven't seen in
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• 49:00 - 49:30 surprise levies before they escalate call 1800581000 or visit tnusa.com/smith you may have missed April 15th but you haven't run out of options let Tax NetworkUSA help before the IRS makes their next move once again tnusa.com/smith all right let's get back into the show um but look I I mean look we were and this is at this point I mean this isn't even controversial this has
• 49:30 - 50:00 all just been declassified and known we were lied into World War I okay we were lied into the Vietnam War we're like there there were massive massive like organized propaganda c campaigns to lie the American people into certain policies and that these I'm just pulling out a few wars and there are so many examples of just like crazy [ __ ] that the CIA was doing that people in in the government were doing that got that went
• 50:00 - 50:30 completely uncovered completely uncovered by that old corporate media apparatus and so I I think that that's not who I'd look to as like who figured out the example of you know how to to gatekeep but I will say that it is it's interesting to me to see a lot of the people I want to try to say this as carefully as I can without Okay a lot of the people who were the
• 50:30 - 51:00 champions of free speech at least this is what they always said when they were arguing with the social justice warrior types they were the champions of free speech they opposed the gatekeepers they opposed labeling people as bigots uh certainly like in this collective manner um they they uh you know they were fine at the end of
• 51:00 - 51:30 CO not at the beginning but at the end of CO they were fine with saying like to hell with the expert class to hell with gatekeepers they got everything wrong you should be questioning all of this stuff but again I'm not trying to be a dick here but none of them were actually good on CO when it mattered i mean correct me if I'm I'm wrong here but I don't think any of these guys were um Joe was [ __ ] heroic the whole goddamn time but okay leaving that aside
• 51:30 - 52:00 but now the ones telling him about how he's got a gatekeep they actually get like what have you gotten right you know now that's not Jordan Peterson jordan Peterson got a lot of things right particularly culturally spiritually um terms of the role of masculinity a lot of that stuff but like I don't know he's also gotten like a lot of the you know like a lot of political things wrong i mean he he got COVID wrong he um he was he was saying that Kavanaaugh should step down when the accusations first
• 52:00 - 52:30 came out and then he turned out to be complete [ __ ] and like maybe you're not in a position to dictate who should be gatekept i certainly wouldn't like put myself in that position of being like "Look here's the here's what you got to do Joe." I have never in all of the conversations that me and Joe Rogan have ever had I have never once even dreamt to have the nerve to be like "Well let's talk about who you're having on this show and who you're not having on this show." It's like Jesus
• 52:30 - 53:00 um it just kind of seems to me like the problem that the Daily Wire is having as he says over there it seems like the problem that all these guys are having is that oh [ __ ] this whole thing we've been advocating for this whole time this whole free speech and um you know an end of censorship and an end to whatever all this stuff oh [ __ ] it's resulted in some very
• 53:00 - 53:30 compelling critics of Israel getting big platforms that seems to me what the beef is because really if we're talking about anti-semitism or Jew hatred or as Jordan Peterson specifically mentioned by name I think not in this clip but at a different portion specifically mentioned the Gropers by name okay well Joe's never had any of them on what are we actually talking about here joe's never had Nick Fuentes on
• 53:30 - 54:00 he's never had a Groper on his show he's had these other guys on but you're kind of using them as an example to kind of have this struggle session with Joe about what standards he has for having a guest on and this just to me seems like a very similar tactic to all of the stuff that Jordan Peterson so heroically stood against and I'm not quite sure why we're even having this conversation right now i mean like I think Joe's standard is working just fine granted I'm a little
• 54:00 - 54:30 biased in this department but I think his standard is working just fine he has people on who he thinks uh interesting and compelling and has interesting conversations with them and by the way he's having he's had a lot of people who support Israel on the show he's had a lot of people who support the effort in Ukraine on the show he's also had some people who are very critical of both on the show i don't know and I I and I also don't think the ratio has to be one one or anywhere near close to that i think he had a lot more proTrump people than pro Camala people
• 54:30 - 55:00 on the show but who the [ __ ] cares oh and also none of these people care about that none of them care about that cuz they agreed with the message so it just seems again if we're going to say this just make the standard objective and then hold it across the board i don't think that's too much uh to ask for now the other point that I'll make and I do not I just to be very clear I'm not accusing um Jordan Peterson of doing this uh I I don't think he's doing this exactly it does seem like some of the other ones are flirting with this and
• 55:00 - 55:30 you know I I watched uh um my my buddy uh Clint Russell's podcast the other day and um Clint Russell is the host of Liberty Lockdown which is a phenomenal show and I I love Clint very uh dearly he's a very good friend of mine and I think he's a very smart guy and he's his show is excellent um so I watched his show and he was like covering the same stuff that I've covered over the last few episodes of the um the Douglas Murray uh uh article and the Constantin
• 55:30 - 56:00 Cassin article and his angle on it which was a little bit different than mine was like "Oh this is a straightup cancellation attempt of Dave Smith like they're trying to cancel this guy." And while I you know while I didn't exactly say that in my responses to both you know like I get his point and essentially like what he was saying was like well look and you know go watch the episode for yourself maybe I'm butchering this a little bit but I think the point was something like he was like
• 56:00 - 56:30 "Well look when you're talking about these standards and these you know like the only the experts should be here and you know all of this." It's like well what are you really saying i mean you're essentially saying "Hey Joe don't have Daryl Cooper on anymore don't have Dave Smith on anymore don't have Ian Carol on anymore." Now this is in a in its purest sense advocating censorship now you could say that they're not they're not
• 56:30 - 57:00 advocating at least explicitly that like the government intervene and decide who's going to be on these shows and they're not advocating that like the the social media companies determine this but you're still just going one level beneath that and advocating that the host of the show doesn't have these people on and you know part of it is that even they know that they can't just turn around and advocate tech censorship because everyone will call them the biggest hypocrites in the world after
• 57:00 - 57:30 spending so many years of not doing it but I wish like I don't know if any of you guys noticed this but I certainly noticed this even when Jordan Peterson's saying it it's like this is very vague like what are you actually suggesting that Joe shouldn't just have conversations with people he finds interesting what what are you advocating that he do here and then the last thing the final thing I'll say about this is that um you know I think that Jordan you know the fact that he calls
• 57:30 - 58:00 out the Gropers by name and picks them when as I've demonstrated throughout this again I'm not exactly saying here I'm not saying that there's nothing to criticize about the Gropers um and I've got a uh a strange relationship with some of them i It's a a little bit of a strange situation because um some of them have very much appreciated some of the views that I've taken i think some of them
• 58:00 - 58:30 have appreciated some of the ideas that I've been helping to kind of mainstream a little bit but then again I'm a Jew so a bunch of them hate my [ __ ] guts and uh their leader Nick Fuentes as uh at at this point I would say I can count on him to trash me anytime I start making waves in any way which I think is uh is shitty and so I'm so whatever my dog in the fight isn't like that I'm trying to defend him and these
• 58:30 - 59:00 people I'm just really what it comes down to is that I just believe what's right is right and what's the truth is the truth and what's fair is fair and also like I'm not as some other very prominent people seem to be i'm not um what we used to call back in my time uh back in the 80s and 90s i'm not a uh a little [ __ ] and by the way that is like just not being a little [ __ ] is like that divides all the people you know into
• 59:00 - 59:30 like two even categories that one can kind of be dismissed but I just like the fact that Nick Fa says some mean [ __ ] about me is just not as important as the [ __ ] destruction of our country the destruction of Gaza the [ __ ] seven wars that we've fought in the last 20 years it's just not it's not on the level of any of this so like who really [ __ ] cares by the way I know this triggers the [ __ ] out of some of my Jewish friends but like that's how I feel about all this [ __ ] anti-semitism on Twitter it's like comments on Twitter [ __ ] cares it's
• 59:30 - 60:00 just not that important um you could try your best to spin it by the way you just sound like a woke leftist when you do yeah but the history the legacy of slavery or yeah what are we actually talking about what are we actually talking about in the present right now but I will say that like if you're going to go out there and call them out if that's your your move then I do think if you want to be effective with that then maybe you're actually going to have to take on some of their arguments and I'm not I don't
• 60:00 - 60:30 agree with a lot of their arguments but they've got some they've got some and I think if you're going to call them out like that maybe you should address them maybe that's the way to do this i also think there's something particularly for me as somebody who's followed Jordan Peterson's work and again really admired so much of it you know it would occur to me that while and and again I don't I don't wish to uh I don't wish to straw man Jordan Peterson on this issue but
• 60:30 - 61:00 while he is kind of sloppily a little bit you know just throwing out these labels of like you know cluster B psychopaths narcissists all these things um I would argue that it is very very difficult to make any of these diagnosis um on a group of people on the internet that you do not know you have not met i mean like in a professional capacity
• 61:00 - 61:30 Jordan Peterson would never diagnose any individual in this group until he had like had several sessions with them individually but it does just occur to me that perhaps a lot of those people are the exact disenfranchised young men who Jordan Peterson was supposed to be the champion of and for so many years put his neck out there and said no society is like leaving these people behind and they're people too and
• 61:30 - 62:00 you know this was one area that like you know it's gotten me in you know a bit of trouble i mean I don't know you know like back to like when Clint was saying that there's like a cancellation attempt against me i'm kind of in a position at least right now there was a time when I was more worried about that maybe I'm being naive i'm not too worried about it right now i don't think that's it's like yeah we're in this new world and like Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson love me so I don't really think I'm getting cancelled anytime soon maybe I'm wrong but like I'm not really that concerned about that but so I don't want to like
• 62:00 - 62:30 I'm just saying like I've gotten a lot of flack let's say over the years for having this attitude and I think this was one of the things that Jordan Peterson that was so great about him because of course he's a lot smarter than me so he could put this in a much more eloquent and profound way than I'll be able to but part of my attitude in dealing with all types of different people um I mean I've done this with all types of different groups leftist socialists all
• 62:30 - 63:00 all types of different groups but the one that's caught me flack has been with like the alt-right the gropers the kind of the the people who uh some might call anti-semmites or racists or whatever term i I try not to use these terms because I want to use like a term that they'd agree with but maybe that just you know as a placeholder the one of the attitudes that I've always had is that um uh these guys are people
• 63:00 - 63:30 too you know I I don't have to agree with them on everything i could even think there's some really ugly implications to some of the things they believe by the way I feel that about socialists too and in fact I think a lot of people would die if the socialists were to get some of the policies that they want i could still speak to socialists and recognize that's a human being we have a difference of agreement here let's discuss it let's see what of your grievances what I think is a reasonable one and what I think is an unreasonable one what I think is misguided and I just think for of all people for Jordan Peterson to kind of
• 63:30 - 64:00 like at least I'm not saying exactly he did this but at least he gave the appearance of kind of casting this aspersion across this this wide group of people who I think are you know like many of them are the people who grew up under the regime that you made your career fighting and ultimately defeating and I don't think the correct move here is to now take on the tone of saying
• 64:00 - 64:30 they're they're the deplorables they must be kept out they must be gate kept out of here on a show that's never had any of them on to begin with it's like you're just taking shots at them while they're they're completely powerless okay i mean there's some there's some of them who got some following on Twitter or whatever but like really in the greater scheme of things is that the issue and is this the way like what are we what are we trying to do here like you're the clinician not me what are we trying to do here are are
• 64:30 - 65:00 you trying to like bridge a gap here are you trying to like see if some of these people are redeemable are you trying to like give them something to think about that they haven't before or you just trying to tell society to shun that to shun them you know the Jordan as Jordan Peterson once said uh you know what's uh what's so bad about speaking up for the marginalized all right I'm gonna wrap on that and uh I'm sure this uh I'm sure that last part will earn me a fair uh
• 65:00 - 65:30 fair bit of grief too okay thank you guys very much for listening we'll be back members only episode tomorrow the membersonly that means you got to join you got to go to part of the.com and sign up and uh then you get the membersonly episode every Thursday and for the rest of you we'll see you back here on uh on Monday thank you very much have a good one [Music]