I Spent A Day With The World #1 Day Trader (Umar Ashraf)

Summary

In this candid and motivational interview, Scarface Trades sits down with Umar Ashraf, recognized as the world’s top day trader, to discuss the journey from a novice investor to a top-tier trading expert. Umar, who began with a small capital, has now accumulated millions through disciplined trading strategies. Throughout the discussion, they examine the highs and lows of trading, the impact of cultural and personal backgrounds on financial decisions, and the importance of discipline and mental fortitude in trading. They also dive into common misconceptions about trading and provide insightful strategies for aspiring traders.

Highlights

• Umar emphasizes that trading requires self-discipline more than any other trait 🔍.
• Umar shares how losing all his initial investment was his turning point 🌟.
• Success in trading doesn't equate to high spending – Umar believes in saving and consistently re-investing 💰.
• Social media portrayal of trading can be misleading – it's not all glitz and glamor 🌐.
• A disciplined, structured approach to trading and life is Umar's formula for long-term success 🗝️.

Key Takeaways

• Trading isn't as hard as being an astronaut or surgeon, but it requires self-discipline to succeed 🚀✂️.
• Building a trading career is comparable to building a business: both require patience and resilience 🏗️.
• Despite success, staying grounded with financial habits is crucial for sustainability ⚖️.
• Beware of flashy lifestyles on social media – many traders spend to keep up appearances rather than genuine wealth accumulation 🕶️.
• Understanding market indicators and sticking to a consistent strategy is key to success in trading 📊.

Overview

In an engaging and refreshing conversation, Umar Ashraf delves into his journey of rising from an 18-year-old with a $20,000 stake to becoming a globally leading day trader. Joined by Scarface Trades, the duo explores the juggernaut that is day trading and how patience, dedication, and self-awareness can navigate its multifaceted challenges.

Umar speaks candidly about the misconceptions surrounding trading, breaking down why it’s not the monumental challenge many perceive it to be. He explains how discipline, not just skill or education, is crucial for long-term success. Umar's insightful reflections provide a template for prospective traders who aim to turn their ambitions into reality.

This interview unravels the myths of flashy trading lifestyles, emphasizing the essence of grounded financial discipline and the significance of proper mentorship and education. Umar’s journey underlines that with the right mindset and approach, the heights of success in trading are well within reach.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 03:00: Introduction and Umar's Early Trading Journey This chapter introduces Umar, a successful trader, who shares his perspective on trading as a simple career path. He emphasizes the ease of making money by merely analyzing charts and clicking buttons. Umar also discusses the lucrative offers he receives from big firms, some offering up to $300K a month. He shares his confidence in growing a small trading account into a much larger one within months, demonstrating his belief in the potential of trading to generate significant wealth. He also hints at the importance of starting young for achieving consistency in trading.
• 03:00 - 07:00: Overcoming Family Concerns and Education The chapter titled 'Overcoming Family Concerns and Education' focuses on the story of Umar Ashraf, a renowned trader who runs one of the biggest trading companies valued near $100 million. Despite his current success, the chapter recounts his humble beginnings 12 years ago when he started with only $20,000, which he lost entirely. It explores the journey of an 18-year-old from New York City who overcame initial failures to become one of the top day traders. The narrative also highlights his significant accomplishments, such as buying a dream house for his parents and dream cars for his siblings. The discussion delves into his growth and the challenges faced along the way, providing insights into his educational and family support that played a critical role in his success.
• 07:00 - 15:00: Challenges and Insights from Trading and Business The chapter delves into the concept of becoming a profitable trader "the right way." Although specific strategies or steps are not detailed within the provided transcript excerpt, the focus seems to be on outlining the true attributes and mindset required to succeed in trading.
• 15:00 - 21:00: Trading vs. Regular Careers The chapter discusses the contrast between pursuing trading as a career versus more traditional career paths. The narrator shares their personal experience, highlighting that their parents were concerned about their decision to forego college in favor of trading. The parents were skeptical and worried due to their experience and stories of friends losing money in Wall Street, questioning the sustainability and risks involved in a trading career.
• 21:00 - 31:00: Day Trading and Prop Firms The chapter delves into the emotional and psychological aspects of pursuing a career in day trading, particularly in the context of parental expectations and reactions. It highlights the speaker's personal experience of earning a substantial income during university, noting that despite financial success, parental concern and expectations remained prevalent. The narrative underscores the pressure to achieve that goes beyond monetary success, and examines how familial attitudes shape the perception of trading as a viable career choice.
• 31:00 - 40:00: Transitioning from Penny Stocks to Options The chapter discusses the cultural expectations surrounding education, particularly from the perspective of Brown parents. The narrator reflects on their personal experience with their parents' reactions to their graduation from university. They note that their parents were most pleased with them for obtaining a degree, as it provided them with the freedom to pursue whatever career they desired. This degree acted as a safety net, appeasing their parents' concerns about their future career choices. The narrator contrasts this with a hypothetical scenario where they did not obtain a degree, suggesting that their parents would have been much more concerned."
• 40:00 - 50:00: Early Trading Mistakes and Lessons Learned The chapter discusses early trading experiences and the lessons learned from them. It begins with anecdotes about hearing horror stories of people making and then losing significant money, citing a story about a friend's father who made a million dollars from a stock and then lost it all. Such stories tend to influence people either to start trading or to avoid it entirely. The narrative then reflects on past trading experiences and how they shaped the successful trajectory of building a company.
• 50:00 - 64:00: Building a Successful Day Trading Career The chapter revolves around the challenges faced while starting a career in day trading compared to starting a tech company. It reflects a conversation or monologue about the difficulty level experienced in both fields, with an emphasis on personal growth and maturity affecting perceptions of these challenges. The speaker expresses a realization that both ventures are difficult in unique ways and critiques past beliefs, such as the saying that trading is the hardest career in the world. The narrative suggests a journey of self-awareness and changed perspectives over time.
• 64:00 - 75:00: Financial Independence and Enjoyment of Life The chapter discusses the notion of financial independence through trading and contrasts it with other careers such as being a surgeon or astronaut. The speaker argues that trading is comparatively easier and emphasizes the importance of discipline in trading. They stress that having a clear game plan and not overtrading are key aspects to succeed as a trader. The speaker also reflects on the common misconceptions about the difficulty of trading as a profession.
• 75:00 - 85:00: Trading Strategies and Market Approaches The speaker discusses the misconception that trading is extraordinarily difficult, emphasizing that many people lack self-discipline, which complicates trading for them. They share personal growth from believing trading was hard to realizing, after exposure to other professions, that sitting in a room, analyzing chart lines, and making money by clicking buttons isn’t as difficult as it seems. The speaker highlights that mental barriers are often the greatest challenges in trading.
• 85:00 - 99:00: Future Goals and Trading as a Vehicle The chapter discusses the common perception of trading as a challenging pursuit compared to other professions, primarily due to the psychological aspects involved. It highlights that unlike jobs or building a company, trading does not offer guaranteed income, which many individuals are unaccustomed to, as they often transition directly from jobs or high school to trading without experiencing the entrepreneurial process of creating a business. Thus, trading is perceived as difficult because it shifts individuals from the security of a steady paycheck to the uncertainty of variable income.
• 99:00 - 111:00: Overcoming Drawdowns and Maintaining Confidence The chapter discusses the challenges of trading compared to having a traditional job, emphasizing the uncertainty and lack of guaranteed income in trading as opposed to a job which offers stable income. The speaker reflects on personal experiences, noting that while both trading and running a business involve significant difficulties, trading was perceived as more challenging. This insight into the speaker's mindset highlights the complexities of overcoming financial challenges and the importance of maintaining confidence in such ventures.
• 111:00 - 123:00: Impact of Social Media and Responsible Influence This chapter discusses the speaker's transition from running a business to trading, highlighting the lack of financial cushion that comes with trading compared to business, even when the business fails. The speaker also touches upon a personal accomplishment of not cracking their phone for ten months and reflects on how trading was perceived with respect in 2015-2016.
• 123:00 - 134:00: Competitive Nature and Continuous Improvement The chapter discusses the stereotypes and perceptions associated with being a trader, notably the negative connotations that have developed. The speaker shares their reluctance to openly admit being a trader due to these perceptions, especially in areas like Miami where traders are seen in a poor light. The conversation hints at the influence of proprietary trading firms in shaping these views.
• 134:00 - 143:30: Concluding Thoughts and Reflections In the concluding chapter, the speaker reflects on the differences between various trading platforms, particularly contrasting the sophistication of stock and options trading with the chaotic nature of forex trading. The discussion surfaces opinions on proprietary (prop) trading firms, which the speaker views skeptically. They assert that prop firms must genuinely book trades to avoid operating as a fraudulent scheme, likening any other model to a Ponzi scheme. Essentially, the chapter captures a critical perspective on the ethical and operational aspects of trading firms, emphasizing the need for transparency and integrity in their business models.

I Spent A Day With The World #1 Day Trader (Umar Ashraf) Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 Trading is the easiest career in the world. I don't care what anyone says. I click buttons. I analyze lines on a chart and if I'm right, I make a [ __ ] ton of money. I've had opportunities to like promote a lot of big firms that have offered me like 200 300K a month. I have emails every day. If I was trading a 5K account today, by the summer I could probably grow to 100 grand. What is the best way to start actually seeing consistency? For me, I think if I was 18 today and I was trading or want to trade, I would. This day trader has made $20 million trading and built one of the
• 00:30 - 01:00 biggest trading companies in the world, valued near $100 million. From buying his parents their dream house to buying his siblings their dream cars, Umar Ashraf is one of the most verified traders in the industry. But 12 years ago, when he started trading, life didn't always look like this. With only $20,000 to his name, he invested all of it into the markets and lost everything. So, how did a 18-year-old from New York City manage to become one of the best day traders in the world? Today, I speak with Umar and talk about what it truly
• 01:00 - 01:30 takes to become a profitable trader the right way. [Music] I like the two tones with Mayback. That's my favorite two way cuz you you know what car it is when you're driving way back [Music] one I I don't think my mom or dad knew how much I was making or what I was
• 01:30 - 02:00 doing and like not that I never shared it. I just never really talked about it. Right? So my mom and dad were just like I I never graduated college, right? So it was always like, "Oh [ __ ] when this doesn't work, what's he going to do? When this stops working, what's he going to do?" Also my my dad's had a lot of friends that lost money in Wall Street. So it was like when's this ticking time box going to end? Because he knows like two people in like a span of 5 10 years they lost everything. So for him it was like okay when's this going to end? When's this going to end? And then obviously his friends would, you know,
• 02:00 - 02:30 say the same exact thing and then my mom would hear that and then my mom would also be like a little bit scared like oh [ __ ] Like good job. You did you did good today. You did good this month. And then it's like when's this like violin going to stop playing? So that's why I keep going to like what do your parents say because I know like from DY parents a lot of times they're I think because you graduated that kind of makes it a little bit better. I think number one is you're right actually genuinely didn't so I was actually making 100k a month consistently when I was in university they didn't care at all. That's actually a great point. They honestly cared about
• 02:30 - 03:00 me graduating university before they cared about anything. The day I graduated university that's the happiest they were because they were like now you can do whatever you want. They're like you want to go on the street and do whatever you want. you got the degree as a as a Brown parent. I'm very happy about that. So, I think that was the biggest thing. That's why they're happy and that's why they don't really care now in terms of what I do because I have the degree. If I didn't have the degree, they would be tweaking. They would actually be very Yeah. I think that's where it was. I I didn't have a degree. I left out of college and I was like, I'll go back. I'll go back. Yeah. And I
• 03:00 - 03:30 never went back. Right. That that thing too when you said the the people telling your dad. So, when you when I first started trading, when we talked about it, like that is kind of the main thing. I think it was like one of my dad's friends made like I don't know a million dollars off whatever some random stock and then lost it all type of thing. There's always people like that and you're you're going to hear horror stories and those horror stories is what influences other people to even a get into trading or not get into trading. You've traded, you've built a very successful company looking back at both
• 03:30 - 04:00 of them because you started both of them not knowing you didn't know anything about a tech company. You didn't know anything about trading. Which one was harder? I think they were both hard in different ways. It's I don't know. It's it's hard to compare because also when I started Trade Zela, I was older, more mature, and like more calm. Like if I started Tradezela and trading at the same age, I think Trade Zela would have been harder. And I used to say this, by the way, and like as I got older, I was like, this is such a stupid saying when it's like trading is the hardest career in the world. Oh my god. I used to say
• 04:00 - 04:30 that and as I got older, bro, that [ __ ] irks me. Trading is the easiest career in the world. I don't care what anyone says. Mhm. It's not hard. Being a surgeon is harder. Being an astronaut is hard. Like I remember someone tweeted, "Being an astronaut is easier than being a" I'm like, "Bro, what what crack are you on? Being a trader, I'm not saying it's easy, but it's like trading is like, bro, you got to like you got to tell yourself, I'm not going to do XY, and Z," and not do X, Y, and Z. Like, don't overtrade. Don't overtrade. Follow your game plan. Follow your game plan. Like, if you don't have self-discipline, bro, say you don't have self-discipline,
• 04:30 - 05:00 right? So, it's like people that lack self-discipline make trading into like this thing of like, "Oh my god, it's so hard." Not that trading is easy. And like once again until 25 26 I used to think trading is the hardest thing. But then when you go to like real actual professions you're like bro I get to sit in a seed room I click buttons. Yeah. I analyze lines on a chart and if I'm right I make a [ __ ] ton of money. What's my blocker? Yeah. My brain. Yeah. I feel like most people the reason they say that is I agree with that and there's obviously a lot more professions are way
• 05:00 - 05:30 harder than trading. But the reason I feel like people think trading is hard is because obviously the mental thing. Now there's other professions for example you're building a company right you don't have income coming in that's guaranteed for a company right with trading you don't have income coming in with a job you have guaranteed income coming in so most people haven't experienced building a business most people it's just job and then trading right or if you're in high school to trading and I feel like that's why it's the hardest thing because you're going from guaranteed income to not guaranteed
• 05:30 - 06:00 income they could both fail at any time right so that's why I was kind of asking you question in terms of like they're both not guaranteed and because you did both now you can go back and say trading is not hard but if you had a job it's guaranteed income trading is not right neither is business you did both the hard part right so looking at it from that perspective what would you say about that I would still say from both perspectives I still think like for me at least I think trading would have been more harder and I the reason I think trading and both maybe were a little bit harder it's because when I traded I
• 06:00 - 06:30 didn't have the income like when I did the business like I was even if the business failed I was still good like there there was still like this cushion for me to fall on, right? Trading I don't have a cushion to fall on. Uh so I feel like bro wow I have not cracked my phone for 10 months. Oh, and like legit today I was like yo I'm like so proud of myself. I haven't cracked this for like 10 months. I feel like in 2015 2016 like people respected trading probably see it. It's like trading's
• 06:30 - 07:00 become it's become this thing when you tell someone you're a trader. They don't look at you like, "Oh [ __ ] cool." That's why that's the thing. I don't even tell people that I'm a trader now because you can't because the second you say trader, it's like, "What do you sell?" That's the first question. Yeah. You know what I think's ruined it? I think the Miami traders have ruined it. Mhm. I think the Miami traders have ruined it. You're saying that in Miami? You got to be careful. I know. I I'll say it and I think they all know it. I think my A lot of Miami traders have ruined it. And I think part of it is prop firms. Mhm. I think prop firms have
• 07:00 - 07:30 kind of ruined it. You probably don't feel it as much because you're like in the stock and option side and it's like that side is a lot more sophisticated but the moment you like go to the forex side and I'm not in the forex side but because of trade develop like I see both sides the forex side is like it's a mess. What do you feel? How what's your opinions on proper? We kind of got a little glance of what you think, but what's your actual opinion about it? I feel like unless a prop firm is like really a booking someone, their whole business model is a ponzi. Like the only
• 07:30 - 08:00 way they're making money is if you fail. Let's say majority of profits tomorrow. If all of their traders make money tomorrow, none of them fail the test. They're going to business. I also don't think it's the best route for most traders because you develop this like gambling mentality. Oh, you lose money. All right. Pay 50 bucks, reset. Pay 50 bucks, reset. Pay 50 bucks, reset. You'll take trades that you wouldn't normally take if it was your own capital and then that just develops into really really bad behavior and then a year later you spent probably 10 20 grand in payouts and you'd be surprised. There's
• 08:00 - 08:30 people that spend like three four grand a month in just payouts, right? And it's like it's a mess. Do you see do you see a lot of like prop? No. So there's a trader right now that you've probably seen. He just did a $2.4 $4 million payout or whatever. And then the prop firm that he got that from said 90% sale to get more people in. So that kind of goes to what you said in terms of it's like a Ponzi scheme kind of, right? So what's your opinion on that? Like their actual the business model behind it when you actually have to pay out traders cuz there's some proper, you know, you'll
• 08:30 - 09:00 make money but they won't ever pay you out. So they actually did pay out 2.4 million or whatever. So they did do that but then they ran a 90% sale to attract new traders in. They got a lot of people. Yeah. He He's a good trader. Jay, by the way, really good trader. He's like he knows how to play the prop game really well. He also trades really well, but he's like one out of like 50,000 people, right? I think majority of people that try to do what he's doing are not able to do it. He's also been trading for 11 12 years. So, a lot of people that they're attracting on the flip side are just starting to trade.
• 09:00 - 09:30 They'll, you know, re go for that 90% sale and they'll just keep re-uping their their accounts. Their business model is, hey, let's get people in at a cheap discount for the first time. And their business model is shown that once someone's in the door, we'll keep paying a higher and higher and higher price over and over again. So, their LTV or long-term value in a customer ends up being so much even with a small kind of increment of, you know, the first sale. I've had opportunities to like promote a lot of big firms that have offered me like 200, 300K a month and like I have
• 09:30 - 10:00 emails where I've rejected it. Mhm. Because it's like the the biggest thing is like even even like for example you're 23, right? It's like the biggest thing you'll always have is your brand, your name. You start getting offers from like prop firms or brokers, shady brokers, and like they're like, "Hey, we'll give you 100 grand a month." You're like, "Fuck 100 grand a month." Like, and you you don't know any better. And you take it and these companies end up screwing over your audience and what do you have left? You just destroyed your name, whole thing. So, it's like
• 10:00 - 10:30 that starts happening. that that's something I've seen happen a lot more now than it did in like 2016, 2014, 2013. Uh, and it happens a lot more on like the Forex side of stuff and like now a little bit futures, but like when you trade options and equities, you don't you don't really feel it. That's the thing. So, I think ever since kind of little being more on social media, I've been trading for a while, but being on social media side of it a little bit more. I think that's definitely something that I saw where when you said like broker deals and stuff the emails
• 10:30 - 11:00 you get from them is insane. Um but I think at the same time that does occur way more in forex options futures like it's more regulated so it's harder you know I think you because you started off with options if I'm not I didn't start off I start off with penny stocks yeah same I started penny stocks I feel like everyone that goes into stocks they're doing penny stocks you go into penny stocks and you end up like realizing this doesn't really work well and then you go into like big caps and then I ended up going into options but what about you started with penny stocks too penny stocks started off with penny
• 11:00 - 11:30 stocks then I went into options right away. Um I try I do futures sometimes because I know you try you trade futures a little bit too but there's just something about options man where it's just like it's just I feel like there's limited risk for the reward because if you can trade properly and consistently when you start trading options I started tra well I started penny stocks in 2017 I started trading options around 2019 2020. Why do you ship to options? Because penny stocks there was no system that can be in place other than the screeners. So you have a screener that
• 11:30 - 12:00 you want to whatever trade whatever and then it'll be the top gainer of the day and then you basically just trade that one top gainer but you're not trading the same thing. But with options you can trade let's say for example you trade Tesla every day. I trade Tesla literally every day or Apple or in so it's like the same stocks and it's the same basket. You know their personality where with penny stocks it's just whatever's running you're just buying it. There's no personality. There's you can kind of build an edge based off of like the volume and like you know the actual like screeners. like that's the only way, but you're not building an edge based off
• 12:00 - 12:30 the actual stock. What do you think though? What what was your kind of difference in that? I mean, I kept losing money, bro. I kept losing money when I was trading penny stocks. I was like, what the hell? And then I So, so my thing with penny stocks was I got screwed over really bad with the company. It was called Solar 3D. So, it SLTD. It was called the symbol was SLTD. This is like I think 2016, maybe 17. And this is like me out of penny stocks and like doing big big names and penny stocks at the same time. And I remember
• 12:30 - 13:00 my portfolio at the time was around not I don't want to say the portfolio. My account size was like 400 to 500K. But this was what year? I don't remember the year but I know it was like 21. So it was like my third year in so 2016 I'd say 2017. Every time this would happen like this is not the first time it happened right. So I ended up buying this company. I'm like okay. And you know with penny stocks because it's so cheap you you can buy like a million shares at like you know for almost nothing and you go well if this goes to $1, right? I will make a million dollars.
• 13:00 - 13:30 Like it it was just this weird math you create. And this is probably like the seventh time I did it right and every time I would do it in the past I would stop. Do it. I would stop. But this time like now I have a little bit more money. I remember I ended up putting 200k 211,000 exactly in this particular name. And I'm like, "Okay, well, this is gonna go to $4. It's gonna go to $5. It's a solar company." And you know, you know, and then you go on Stock Twits. I used to go on Stock Twits, which was the worst thing. The worst platform, the worst. Like, it's like you buy something
• 13:30 - 14:00 bad and you need that rec. Yeah, exactly. That this is going to work. This is going to work. You go on it and you're like, "Okay, these people, these random people who have no idea how many shares they have, what like value they have, anything. I'm going to listen to that." And like when you think about it logical, you're like, why am I taking investment advice from like random people with profile pictures of like dolls literally? All right. So I would go on it and I'm like, okay, should I buy more? And like this is going to go to the moon, it's going to go 12. It's going to go 20, it's going to go 15. I'm like, [ __ ] Like damn, if it goes to 10,
• 14:00 - 14:30 I make this much. It goes to 20, I made this much. Then like you start going, I don't need it to go to 20. I'll take 10. Mhm. So when I kind of created that weird thing in my head, I went in 211,000 on this trade was I I remember I bought an exact amount of shares that equated to like 211 and then I remember I think it was uh around the summer time I was holding this for a few weeks where I woke up and I I get I had Seeking Alpha at the time and I go Silver 3D has filed for bankruptcy. I'm like [ __ ] I'm
• 14:30 - 15:00 like [ __ ] Oh my bro, I keep doing the same thing over and over again. And that that was like the day I'm like, I'm not touching these companies. I'm not trading them. I'm not holding them. I'm not doing anything. And that was like the last time I touched it. Yeah. Like that burn I feel today. No, 100%. I have the same same exact thing. So I did, you know, OTC's obviously over the counter these. So there's penny stocks. No, sorry. There's like large caps, right? And then there's like, you know, midsize. Then there's penny stocks. And then there's OTC, which is like it's the
• 15:00 - 15:30 worst, right? OTC's are basically companies that are like in their like parents' garage and you can just say you have a company. It's nothing. I've traded those a few times. They were exact. Yeah. So, so I saw people making millions of like literally turning like $50 into millions of dollars. Kind of like what's happening with cryptocurrency right now with the with the the meme coins. So, I buy into penny stock. It's called VPER, Viper Networks. And it's kind of like the same thing like you did, right? I forget what it was. It was like something about um
• 15:30 - 16:00 power. I don't know what it anyways. So, I buy into it and I buy enough where if this thing goes to 10 cents, cuz you got to remember OTC's are like 0.001 cent. So, if it goes to 10 cents, I'm going to be a multi-millionaire. I'm going to retire. I'm going to get a big house, whatever, right? Like, and I'm like, I don't know, probably 17, 18, probably younger. And um I'm sitting there and I actually went up 5,000% on that trade. So, I'm up 5,000% which was like at the time I think $6,000, which was huge for me. That was huge. And so I'm up like $5
• 16:00 - 16:30 $6,000 and I'm like, well, I can't sell this. Like I'm up five 5,000%. This is going to go to 50,000% and then I'm going to retire and you know, I'm never going to have to worry about money again. And that thing within 2 hours, I was sitting there on my computer while this was happening. The thing is dropping like this, right? 90° drop. And I'm just looking at I'm like, just a pullback. You know, I've done my technical analysis on this OTC. This just a pullback. And it keeps dropping and dropping and dropping. And it went from 5,000% to only up 100%. And I'm looking at this thing and
• 16:30 - 17:00 I'm like, "Bro, there's no way I just And like at that time, whatever." Like I was like teenager. So it was like huge in my like personal like confidence too. Like cuz like you got to think about it. I was thinking about it in terms of like I will retire off this. I will retire off this. We'll be good for life. And then I just lost my life savings in it and I'm like oh now what do I do? Right? And so that's I feel like one of the the pivotal moments for me when I was like okay let me go into options let me go into something that actually truly
• 17:00 - 17:30 works. What do you think for you like when you did go into options cuz you didn't become consistent right away. So what was the thing that kind of helped trading click for you before that? I am curious you were 17 when you you started trading. No when I started trading I was 16. What made you get into trading back then? Um I'll be honest. So this is what 20 you 16 or 23. 6 years ago is what 2018? No, no, 2017. So I was I was 16 cuz I'm going to turn 24. So it's Yeah, back then the main thing was the the
• 17:30 - 18:00 reason I wanted to start trading in the first place was I lived in whatever government housing at the time. And so my main thing was like what can I do to you know make money like consistently and like obviously you go online and as a teenager how to make money as a teenager. That's the first thing you're searching up. You search that up and then you see drop shipping. I tried drop shipping. The first month I tried drop shipping. You know, I made the store. I made everything. But then if at the end of your Shopify, whatever, there's like an account. It tells you to, you know, put like 20 bucks in to actually launch
• 18:00 - 18:30 the website. I didn't have the $20. So now I put in like these weeks of work to launch the store and then didn't have anything for it. And then I was just like, "All right, let me give up on this." And then I got into like reselling clothes, made a little bit of money, and then I got into trading because that's where everyone's like stock market, stock market, stock market. So, I got into that. Got into penny stocks. And then I think really with penny stocks, it was a YouTube video back in this was like back back in the day. It was a YouTube video called called like this teenager made $300,000 in high school trading penny stocks. And that clicked for me. That was like back
• 18:30 - 19:00 I don't know if you that video was like viral back in the day. Think Yeah. And so I watched that video and I was like, "Yeah, I got to do this." How do your How do your parents feel about you getting into trading? Terrible. They were like They were like, "Do not so the first time I trade binary options. That was my first ever ever trade. I never actually talked about this. My first ever trade wasn't even penny stocks. It was actually binary options where you basically it's like you know what? So I'm trading binary options and which is bas it's just gambling by the way. That's just straight up gambling. And so
• 19:00 - 19:30 that's what I'm doing. And my I made like I think like maybe 300 bucks. And so I go up to my mom. I'm like I found a way like trust me like you know I'm about to be rich. And she's like okay like she's whatever. Okay. And then I tell my dad and he's like what did you do? I'm like I I was trading and he's like this is gambling. You're going to lose all your money. He called like one of his friends and he's like hey like is this halal or haram? Like and then he was like oh it's very haram. And then instantly like I was like okay I'm not going to touch that. And then
• 19:30 - 20:00 cryptocurrency started popping in 2017 too. So then I bought some coins with like crypto made a little bit of money but like little bit of money is like actually 500 bucks a little bit of money. And um from there, that's when I actually got into penny stocks like fully and like try to like actually learn. And then I went on a generational run. All I was doing was looking at the top gainers for the day. I was buying the top gainer in the morning and I was selling it at 400 p.m. when I came back from school. So in the morning at like around like 9ish because you could buy before the market opens. I was buying it around 9ish before the market opens. So then I could still get that little boost
• 20:00 - 20:30 right at the market opens. And then I'd sell it at like 3:30 right after I come back from school. And I went on a generational run. I probably turned like I want to say like actually I know I put $2,000 into the account but like it was at 5,000 by the time I started trading penny stocks and from 5,000 I turned this into like 30,000 and from 30,000 it all disappeared within I think probably 48 hours. Oh man. And did your parents tell that you lost all that money? They didn't even know I made the money. That's the thing cuz I didn't want to tell them now because I told them I had to. So first of all, I've never talked
• 20:30 - 21:00 about this. I was trading on a custodial account which I signed up under which is what I was going to ask you next which I signed up under my dad's name. He didn't know cuz I did all my dad's paperwork cuz as a as a brown immigrant, you know, like that's just one of those things where, you know, your parents are like from a younger age, you know, I was calling, you know, the telephone companies like, "Hey, like I need this fixed or whatever." So, I knew what his thing was. So, I I just signed up under his thing. And um so I was training under his name, like it was all under my dad's name. And um so I just didn't tell them. I just hid it um because I was scared to tell them obviously as well. And I wanted to show them results. But
• 21:00 - 21:30 then once I lost the money and I couldn't show them results and I lost money that would genuinely change the situation that we were living in at the time, that was the lowest conf and this was in high school at this point. I think it was like grade 9, grade 10. This that was like the lowest confidence-wise I've ever been in my life. Like there's nothing I feel like you know that when you're actually in like that deep down like Yeah. How do you feel? What about you? Like when when were you in that like kind of stage where it was like this is the worst moment of my life? Look, I've had a lot
• 21:30 - 22:00 of Oh, yeah. Right. Uh I mean, I I I think I think early on when you're trading, I think the first two years I've had that. I think when I blew all my money as well, I kind of had that. The first summer that I was trading, my 20 grand account, it went to 35, ended up blowing it, everyone that told me that trading is gambling was like, "Told you. Told you." So that that's probably when I felt it a little bit. Weirdly, I think my lowest point in trading is a
• 22:00 - 22:30 little bit the opposite is when I started making a lot of money. I hit a stage when I was 22, 23 where I was doing really, really, really well. And it's like you get to this point where you're so driven after money and then you're like, "All right, like now what?" So I hit that weird stage at 23 of like just feeling empty. So I'd wake up, I'd make money trading, and I wouldn't just feel anything. And I was like, "I think trading is [ __ ] with me." Because the thing with trading is like realistically you can trade really well but trading doesn't create any fulfillment. You have
• 22:30 - 23:00 to create fulfillment with the money you make from trading and pour out. So at that point I wasn't doing anything with the money. I was just making the money I was keeping in the bank and scrolling it. So I didn't feel any impact in anything I was doing. So 22 23 I started feeling like super depressed and down like [ __ ] like I think I'm doing well which I am but I don't feel better. I feel worse. Why is that? Mhm. So that was one time I remember and then obviously the other times I think when I just freaking kept losing money, you
• 23:00 - 23:30 know, you had that run of like you take a trade, you lose money, you take a trade, you lose money, you take a trade, you lose money, right? So when when did your parents find out about you trading the most? So I mean when I lost that money, I was obviously visibly depressed. So I think that's probably that's like when I like Were you working anywhere or you were just like No, cuz at that time I was in high school. Well, I used to work at this pharmacy type thing because that's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be a pharmacist. Me, too, bro. I worked at a pro. I probably didn't have a picture. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I have pictures. Yeah. So, I wanted to be a pharmacist. So, that's I was
• 23:30 - 24:00 working at a pharmacy to just kind of sustain just like it wasn't even for actually money. It was just to get the experience to be a pharmacist. Um, so I was working at a pharmacy at the time, but yeah, no, they could see that I was obviously visibly like depressed. And then I kind of stopped trading to be honest for at least like 6 months. And and that was just because I was like, "Bro, I can't do this anymore." Like, "You know what? Like, I'm just going to become a pharmacist. I'm going to make, you know, decent money, help people, and I'll call it a day." And then I try to actually like, you know, focus in on school and stuff like that. And I always had good marks. Like I had really,
• 24:00 - 24:30 really good marks. But I was like, "Bro, like I can't do this." Like cuz it's just you just kind of look around and it's like, I don't want to be here anymore. Um, I did finish university though. So, I mean, I did go to university. Got my Did you go for it? I went for finance. I went for finance. So I I I do have a uni degree, but when I was when I was in university, I was that's when I was like fully locked in on trading. So that was around 20. So I went to university in 2019. Um and then I was still like really like trying to learn and
• 24:30 - 25:00 everything. One of the biggest motivation factors honestly back in the day, I wasn't even really back in the day at this point. I was like doing somewhat okay, like I was really on the cusp of consistency, not there yet completely. And then you dropped a video which was the SV video and that I think that video by the way I take it down you talk about and and people always like put it back up and like I hate that video. I hate it. I think the title was like day trader buys SV at 24. Yeah. And I saw that title and I was like bro he
• 25:00 - 25:30 looks like me. I can do it too. Like I was like you know what I was I was actually like genuinely like I was happy but I was mad at myself cuz I was like he can do it. Why can I not do it? Um, so I think I I was watching that video and then that was honestly something that really solidified it. I was like, "Bro, like, you know, Umar can do it. You know, I see other people doing it. I'm going to do it, too." And so, I think that was like one of the things that like really did push me. It wasn't even the materialistic stuff about it. It was more so like the fact that you were able to do it at that age. That was the cool part for me at least. And the
• 25:30 - 26:00 biggest thing was I think with every other industry at that time I didn't really see people that were of my ethnicity I feel like especially with for example growing up on you know cuz I had that stage where I grew up with social media but I also didn't grow up with like Wi-Fi or any of the computer stuff either. So it was one of those things where like I think seeing someone that looked like me do it was like a huge motivating factor. But you didn't have that. So what was your thing like what was your factor of like motivation? Cuz when you're young you obviously do want the the cool stuff. I I think two
• 26:00 - 26:30 things. So one thing to add on I do agree. I think a lot of people that are from like you know from like look like us right from Daisy culture they don't push to want different life or a good life right I think all of them go on this regular path. It's not a bad path. I'm not I don't want to make it seem like a path which I think is a great path as long as you're the one choosing it and that's what you want. I think it becomes a bad path when you're like all right everyone's forcing me to do this thing and like that's why I'm doing it. For me, I think since I've been a kid, Hold on. How did you play sports? Yeah.
• 26:30 - 27:00 Okay. So, I asked the sport thing because I think what one thing I've noticed as I got older, people that played sports or like depending on who you followed, like who was your favorite player? Probably Kobe. Can we talk about that? Yeah. Yeah. It's weird when you start noticing what sport people played and what their who their favorite player was, you'll start noticing that people that do play sports or did play sports, they have this natural level of being competitive. Like, you start having this healthy ego like you want to win, right? I think if you have that in sports that translates into other parts of your life
• 27:00 - 27:30 if you allow it to. So for me it's like I used to play on my basketball team. I used to play in the AA league uh games. I used to play from like middle school to like my basketball on the team. Like I used to play like I was obsessed with basketball. Like I think we got to run a one-on-one. Who do you think when the last time you played? Long time I'll be uh probably last summer. Last summer. What about you? I haven't played for eight years. Yeah. See, see, I'll make a bet with you. If I can get if I can get a camera, I'll make a bet with you. So, this is He's watched that basketball as I'll make a bet with you. I'll beat you.
• 27:30 - 28:00 We'll get We'll get a play. I'll beat you. I'll make a bet with you. Any any bet you want, I'll beat you. You got to determine rules here. I haven't I haven't played for eight years, right? Last time I picked up a basketball was probably at 23, 24, maybe. Maybe. Oh, my age. Yeah, your age, right? I think I can I can beat you. I think I just need 30 minutes with the ball for a little bit. I'll beat you. All right, we're going to make a bet. You want to make a bet? What do you want to make? Make whatever bet. I'm down. All right. We'll we'll we'll we'll we'll come back to it, but we'll we'll make that bed for the next video. We'll make that bad. We'll be on that. Next video is day traders on basketball. For me, I used to be like
• 28:00 - 28:30 obsessed with basketball, right? So, I used to like I didn't even start working or caring about money from that element until like 17. I think that mentality of like Kobe Bryant, I used to like grow up like idolizing him, right? Like I used to watch his interviews and how he spoke and all these things. And you know, as a kid, you start developing those uh attributes. So as I got older or as I turned 17, not even older, it was like, okay, what do I want to do? For me, it was always like, I want to make money. I want to have a good life. So I would see people like anyone, I would say, okay, well, if this guy can figure it out, why
• 28:30 - 29:00 can't I? So like I look at Jay-Z a lot, right? He's one person. Look at 50. Like a lot of people that from the music industry or whatnot, I'm like, "Okay, well Jay-Z was in the projects. He had everything against him." And this guy is like worth four or 500 million at the time. And now he's obviously a billionaire, but I was like, "This guy went from nothing to something and he had a worse start than I do. He can do it." Then I started looking at other people that are extremely successful. I'm like, "Well, he can do it. He can do it." And you know, when you start going into other people that are have achieved
• 29:00 - 29:30 a level of success, you go, "What makes him so different?" And then when I started going down the path of what makes success with people really different, it's like they're not really like you'll notice like a lot of people, even like some billionaires aren't like geniuses. they just do a few things very well consistently over a long period of time. That was like the simple formula. So I was like, "Okay, well I think I can do whatever I put my mind to." And also when you're young, you're 17, 18, 16, you have this like ego and confidence, which is good, but also if you don't use it the right way, it can burn out. So for me it was like, okay, what do I want
• 29:30 - 30:00 to do? I didn't want to become a doctor. I didn't want to like be a pharmacist. Like even though that was like my backup plan, just because I saw everyone else do it and I was like, I don't think I want to do that. I don't think I want to go down that path. I want to do something different. So, I remember I went to Forbes.com. I was in class and I was like, who made the most money last year? The top 10 people had hedge funds. What is a hedge fund? Trading. I'm going to trade. And from there, it was just like, all right, let me just get into it. Get into it. And every time I would do something, I I I always have this I've
• 30:00 - 30:30 had this mentality from a young age where it's like, okay, I do something good, then I'm like, okay, well, there's someone above me that's doing a lot better than me. I'm gonna look at it from his perspective. This is not impressive. Go next. Go next. And and the reason I did that is because one, it keeps you grounded. You stay very humble. I think it's very easy at a young age to see yourself doing well and getting caught up in it like, oh, I have this car. I have this watch or I make this much money. And it's like, yeah, great job, but you need to like stay grounded to know like there's people better than you, people doing more than
• 30:30 - 31:00 you. All of this stuff so you can keep pushing forward. So for me, I think keeping that mindset was very important. and always like the SV like or Aventador I think every kid that's like every kid's dream right so for me it was like okay how do I get that car how do I get this car and then I think another guy I used to see when I was younger was uh I don't know if you know him Lord Lee right so it's like 20 2013 see the guy he's like from from you know similar to us uh same place we're from and it's like why does this guy have all of these
• 31:00 - 31:30 cars and I don't not like you know like he can do what I can do and you know there's people like oh well his father did this And I'm like, bro, it doesn't matter who did it. He's still running and growing the company. Like, you still got to give the guy his respect. So, for me, I was like, "Okay, he can do it. He's from the same place. I'm let me let me push." So, there's like small little things that you see that just keep pushing you and pushing. And I think when you naturally develop that attribute of just looking to keep pushing, it becomes like a part of you. That's funny you mentioned Lord Lee. He was also when I used to watch the videos all the time back in the day, too. So,
• 31:30 - 32:00 two questions from based off what you actually just said. Number one is you you talked about hedge funds. Where's the hedge fund? I'm nowhere near good to operate a hedge fund. I know that there's I'm not not even Okay. But you but you say that but your the company you have trades with very successful company as well. So you know how to lead a team. You know how to trade as well. Hedge funds obviously trade a little bit differently. Obviously they trade differently. But what do you think? Why why would you say that? So one the way I trade is very easy compared to how some
• 32:00 - 32:30 hedge funds would trade. And the reason I say that is because I can go into a spy position with 400K, 300K, 500K even, and I can get in and out. With a hedge fund, four 500k positions of [ __ ] right? You're you're going in with like 30, 40, $50 million positions, depending on what skill you're at. That's number one. I think number two, there's so much regulation compliance that gets involved there. Number three, I've seen the operations that people kind of operate at and do things and it's like maybe if I commit to it, I can maybe do it. I
• 32:30 - 33:00 don't know. But I also don't want that life. I don't want to like work 90 hours a week. There's also like this framework I have left, right? I'm not I think until 25 it was like, all right, work 80 hours, 70 hours. And I think you have to do that. After 25, it was like, all right, well, I don't want to do a 90 hour week. I don't want to optimize my life in a way where I'm working, working, working, working because we hit this dilemma and a lot of people hit it like I'm 30 now, right? I would give up everything to go back to 20. like everything I have would go do it just to go back to 20, right? So when you when
• 33:00 - 33:30 you look at things from that way and I'm pretty sure even someone at 40 would do anything to go back to 30, 50, 40, same exact concept. When you look at things from that perspective, you start realizing that when you're at that age of 23, let's say, and you're like, when I'm 30, I will wish to be this age again. So what are the things at this age that I want to do that I won't be able to really do at 30 or I won't be able to enjoy as much as at 30. Right? So it's like you can work 90 hours a week right now like I'm going to build my business. Great. do it for a year or two. But then the flip side is what is the point of you making all that money?
• 33:30 - 34:00 So based off what you just said there. So there's two things here. So number one, so you're 30. Let's say I'm 23 for example. So when I'm 23 right now, this is my perspective. I'm in the perspective of work, work, work. Because I'm looking to be 30, but set in a way where it's like I'm good. Like I don't have to do anything. Now, with me saying that, right, I feel like I'm blessed enough in the opportunity where like I'm coming close to a point where it's like if I don't do anything like I'm kind of chilling like in like this next yearish, like I'll be in that position where like
• 34:00 - 34:30 you've been in that position where it's if I don't do anything, I'll be good, you know, like in terms of like just like living life, you know, I can do whatever. So, how do you overcome that? Like where you know you've done enough where if you don't do anything now, you're good. You know, there's a lot of people we know too that kind of get to that point and they just they're done. Like they're chilling. So, how did you kind of be like, you know what, I'm at this point now. Now, let me go try to build a huge company. Like, cuz that's kind of that point, right? So, why did you kind of do that? What pushed you to do that rather than just being like, you
• 34:30 - 35:00 know what, like I've made a good amount of money trading. I'll just kind of quantitate here. Yeah. I think I think you have to after a certain dollar value, right, there is this real thing of like the quality of your life does not change. That's exactly like you you start getting diminishing returns. Like instead of having a Lambo that's like an SV, you get an SUV. Like it's just it just things are not they don't really make a big impact, right? I I I think everyone has a different number, but when you get to a comfortable number that satisfies majority of your life needs and so on, more money doesn't make
• 35:00 - 35:30 things better, right? It can, but it's at a very small return, right? I think once you realize that you start to like not care about money unless you're like really driven to make a lot of money, right? And if that's the case, that's fine. I think it comes down to you have to enjoy what you're doing. So for me, I think, you know, 24 is when I hit my point where I'm like, "All right, well, I do well for myself. I have a good amount of money. What do I do?" And then from there, I was like, "I want to keep pushing myself to go further and
• 35:30 - 36:00 further." And for me at 24, it was like, "Oh, I want to start a tech company." like that was my thing. I knew nothing about it. I wanted to put myself in this new environment. It just kind of pushed the needle. I did that and then I think while we were in like the building phase at the age of 25ish to 26, I did take like a year off. Like I like people probably don't know I I disappeared for a year. Like I'm not really on Instagram much. I'm not really doing much work. I'm traveling going to different parts. And like that year I just needed to like reset and think about like okay well
• 36:00 - 36:30 what do I want to do next? What are things that make me happy? what are things that I enjoy to do? And for me, it was like establishing like this concept of life. And for me, it's like, hey, what is success? Success is as long as I can wake up every day and I can choose to build my own schedule the way I want, however I want, to me, I'm successful, right? It's not it's not, hey, a hundred million or a billion or whatever is going to make me feel any better. It's being able to have this part of my life. Then what are other things underneath that that will continue to feel that, right? Because at
• 36:30 - 37:00 the end of the day, it's like when I'm 80, what are things that I'm going to be I'm going to look back at. It's enjoying the parts of life that I want to like build and spend time with my family and do all of these different things. And I think once you lay out that principle element, you start having a foundation of building your life that way. So even like with work now, it's like I don't want to do a 60 70 hour week. For me, it's like, well, if I can offload this and delegate it to someone and I can hire them and I can pay them a [ __ ] ton of money and I don't have to do it and I can buy my time back, I will do that any day, right? And then that goes into like
• 37:00 - 37:30 what do I want to spend my time on? Like if I want to go to Miami unplanned the day of, can I cancel my whole day, wake up and go? And it's like, yeah, if I want to go to Monaco tomorrow, like those small little things is I think where success comes from. I can I can attest to that, by the way. He was coming to Miami and I was coming to Miami and I was like I was texting him. I was like, "Hey man, where are you going to land?" He's like, "Well, you know, I'll figure it out." And I'm like, "No, like you know, I kind of need to time it." You know, he's really what the the day of he can fly out, you know? Yeah. But that's my thing. I feel like that's where and like even if you think
• 37:30 - 38:00 about it from your end like you have the luxury to do that. You have the luxury to you know and I think obviously there's certain dollar value that allows you to do that. But I think when you get there with you're there like you've essentially won and like it's very easy to get caught up in the social media noise which I think a lot of kids that are like under 25 get caught up in like this competitive thing of like I want to make more I want to do more. It's like yeah cool but at what expense? Like you'll make more money. Like for example, I worked the least in the last eight months of my whole life. Like I've
• 38:00 - 38:30 worked the least like hours clocked in. I've made five times more in trading, in business, and everything in the last eight months more than any more than like couple years combined. And it's like that's to show it's not it gets to a point of like not how many hours you put in. It just gets to a point like okay well there's buckets you have. One is like your life. You want to you get to a comfortable point where you want to enjoy your life. You want to have a good time. That bucket stays full. then the other buckets of work automatically get full because this bucket's full. But now if your bucket of life is not full, you
• 38:30 - 39:00 can work 80 hours a week. It's like like I don't think that's really successful. I was reading this, I forget where I read this, but it was basically where the work you put in today won't show for like 2, three, four, five years. True. Right. So what you're saying how you worked the last 8 months, you barely worked, but that's when you made the most money. Would you also attest to the fact that that's because you worked the last 10 years and Oh yeah, absolutely. No, no, I I agree. I'm not saying that I'm not saying to not work and not put in the time stuff, but I'm saying like when you get to this point, and I was
• 39:00 - 39:30 actually having a conversation with someone about this yesterday uh with George. It's like you get to a point where you have enough money to buy time. When you can buy time now, it's like when you don't need to do a lot of activity, right? You're you like there's things in your life right now that if you take a step back and you say if I do nothing for a week and I can think about one or two levers to pull that'll probably increase me making 50% more than I'm making now. And those moves at this current stage of your life will not require a lot of activity. When you're coming up you need a lot of activity. You need to do a little bit of
• 39:30 - 40:00 everything. But then you get to a point where it's like, okay, well, if I make this big move in the trade or if I do this in business or if I do this in here, that one small thing that looks small will move the needle a lot more. And then for you to be able to execute on that, you need space and you need to have stillness. But when you have a lot of activity going on, you don't have time to think about that. You see what I'm saying? So that that's where it's like it's like work. But I think when you get to a certain level, which you're at that level, you have to know how to buy your time back and then understand how to use your time to make the big
• 40:00 - 40:30 moves that are going to 10x you, right? And and you could do that when you get to that financial point, which once again, you're at and I what I see a lot of people get stuck at is when they get to that financial level, they don't get out of that mindset that got them there. So, it's like what got you here is the hustling and doing a bunch of different stuff, which is good. But now you're at that stage where making a great amount of money and it's like, okay, cool. How do I sit back, think about stuff? How do I strategize a little bit more? How do I start thinking, you know, in quarters and not days or weeks? Not that you're
• 40:30 - 41:00 thinking that way, but quarters or maybe a year out. How do I start structuring things from that point? And then you're doing less moves, but you're making more money. Right? And that same concept goes into trading. Like last year, I didn't take the most amount of trades, but the few trades that I did take made me the most amount of money. And that a lot of it was me just having this element of time and being able to position myself properly to execute on that that talk about the trading part. So the Tesla trade last year some of you guys know um I took a Tesla trade last year was my biggest trade. I think it was like
• 41:00 - 41:30 12,000 $140,000 trade and then so I'm super happy for the day. What's it called? Comparison to joy and I go on Instagram and uh the first thing I see is Umar story on Instagram. I click it. same Tesla trade and I forget how much it was but I think it was 10x mine and um I was and I texted him I was like I was like come on bro I was like you know uh but it was one of those things I feel like it's one of those things like there is how you said the stages of things and it's cool too because the things you're
• 41:30 - 42:00 saying I can resonate with them when you were 23 you know type of thing so it's cool to see like you've kind of already been on that path being on that path one thing that I want to talk to you about is right now I'm scaling in my training meaning that I'm trying to get those, you know, bigger days and bigger wins, which comes with bigger losses as well. And obviously, you you have a I've seen multiple times you have a different kind of philosophy on scaling. So, how do you think what do what did you do to actually scale your trading from, let's say, you know, $500, $5,000 a day to now you're doing, you know, sometimes
• 42:00 - 42:30 million dollar days. Like, what happened? Yeah. So, two things. One, on the Tesla trade, just the way how you felt, I felt that with someone else. I know this other guy, I think he made 47 million on that trade, right? And like when I saw it, I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] man." Like it's just a human nature thing, right? I think for everyone, we see something and we're like, "Fuck, I could do more." Which I think as long as you take it in a good way, which is great. But also your Tesla trade phenomenal. Like I didn't have a trade as big as that as 23 by the way. So it's like when I see some stuff at, you know, at a younger age than me cuz I I didn't
• 42:30 - 43:00 think I had my first 150k trade maybe till 24 25 somewhere around there. And that was like I forgot what symbol it was. It wasn't even Tesla. It wasn't even option. It was a stock that I bought at like $4 and it squeezed to like 40 and I like weirdly was positioned on the right side, right? But in terms of scaling up and trading is goes back to the same thing that I was saying a few seconds ago. It's it's the timing of stillness and it's like I'm not trying to sound philosophical and whatnot, but it's like to find good
• 43:00 - 43:30 opportunities in the market, you have to not have a lot. It's the same thing in business. You have to have less activity and more high quality movements, right? So in like trading it's like if I take 10 trades and like I make money I lose money I make money I lose money you start slashing away into your mental capital your mental energy gets you know drained you get a little tired you get fatigued you start creating biases because you're long Tesla then short Tesla then long Tesla and then you start you start catching the moves in between but now when you take a step back sometimes and you start thinking about you start processing it and you you you
• 43:30 - 44:00 go well I'm not looking to make money here I'm just looking for a good trade and if the good trade comes tomorrow or the day after tomorrow I'll ticket. And two of my biggest trades came from that approach. Like my big trade prior to Tesla was a was a firm in 2021, I believe. And a firm was essentially even though it was like the thesis was different, but the timing of it was very similar in terms of like I'm not doing much. I'm like very open to watching the markets. I'm not forcing a trade. I'm just looking for stuff. I'm something comes up and then when you know you see
• 44:00 - 44:30 an opportunity, you're more clearheaded towards that. Especially like it's swing trading, right? And that Tesla is kind of more of a swing trade than like an actual day trade. But from a day trading point of view, it for me it's like what what's worked is I know that out of a given 20 to 22 trading days a month, there's like five to eight good trading days. 100%. So in like my mind, I'm like, okay, I'm going to go into let's say May. I know there's five day trading days. I'm not I'm not trading 40 days. I can only select 5 to eight days. So I like create that mental barrier
• 44:30 - 45:00 restriction. So when I go into days I'm like ah it's not the day I'm usual in my eight days or six days it's not today. So when it's not that day or and you you can tell what those days are. You kind of have a have a feel like experience right? If if there's earnings coming up market is flat market's waiting for earning season to pass. If Powell is going to speak next Wednesday you're like all right Monday we're going to have typically a flat day. We'll have Wednesday as a flat day too until he's done speaking. If market is so worried about inflation you kind of have an idea to see what the market cares about. If you know, Trump is like screwing up
• 45:00 - 45:30 everything with, you know, the tariffs. I know everyone in Canada hates America, right? Terrible. Terrible. We won't get into that one. Right. Okay. Well, these things are happening. You know, market just dumped for four or five days straight. We made a recovery and now we're flat. So, we might continue staying flat for a few days. So, you start knowing what those good and bad days are. And I think letting go of that idea of like I have to trade every day. I have to create activity every day. And that activity also goes into like work. Like can you wake up tomorrow and like not do anything and just be in your
• 45:30 - 46:00 element and feel good or do you feel like you have to do stuff? Right? And in trading it's the same thing. You feel like you have to press a button and buy, sell, buy, sell. And even if you walk away flat, you're like, "Okay, I did something." But if you have five days where you show up and you take no trades, you're like, "Oh my god, I'm not progressing." But a lot of times like doing nothing is to me doing something. There's a lot of new traders right now and it's a different space coming in now compared to when I came in and definitely compared to when you came in. So mine is way too far off making me feel like I'm 40. Yours yours is like
• 46:00 - 46:30 bro like that's like that's like ice age. Um but no so obviously the time changed. So compared to the traders now that you see coming in obviously you get DMs I get hundreds of DMs you probably get hundreds of DMs like how do I what would you do to start now in 2025 right? And we talked about profits a little bit, how the the mentality is much more gambling. What would you tell a trader that's coming in today? Like literally starting today, let's say they watched their first YouTube video on how to start trading. What would you say to them? What is the best way to start
• 46:30 - 47:00 actually seeing consistency? What's that path look like now compared to when we came up? Because it's way different now. Me, I think if I was 18 today and I was trading or wanted to trade, I would It doesn't So here's the thing. I don't even think it has to be 18 because there's there's people that are 408. I think personally delete your social media and go trade. Okay, that's what I think. I think I I think in today's time there's two pros and cons, right? The pro is I think the education in like 2025 and like the accessibility to
• 47:00 - 47:30 information is like so much more available than like in 2013, 2016, 2015. Not that there wasn't anything then, but you didn't have access. trading wasn't wasn't like a trading wasn't a wasn't a big thing, right? Trading because of how big it is now or how much bigger it's gotten. There's a lot of valuable podcast. There's people that have started in like 2010, 2015 and so on that are very successful. So, there's like more history and people are more receptive to showing them. So, like
• 47:30 - 48:00 that's the pro now than back then. So, the education side's easier. The con is like there's a lot more traders nowadays. So decipher true through through like is this guy good? Is this guy legit? Is this guy not legit? It's very hard because you have a lot of notes. Even me, I go on YouTube sometimes, bro. Like I see people's videos and like I'm like I'm a I'm a natural person that likes to consume things, right? Like yeah, you produce, but I also like to consume. Like I I like to know if I see like Jade's videos, I'm watching all his videos
• 48:00 - 48:30 right now. He just got a$2 point whatever million dollar payout. I'm like, hey, like from someone who's a student of the game, I want to know how you trade, right? I'm not not from a point of like, oh, I think it's bad or good. I just want to know how you trade. And maybe there's times I pick something up. Like same thing with your videos. Hey, I want to know how you trade. Go watch it. I'm like, okay, this makes sense. Okay, this doesn't make sense to me. Doesn't just because something makes sense, doesn't make sense to make it right or wrong. It's just, oh, I can relate to this. I can't. Or maybe it changes my way of viewing stuff. So, it's like me at this stage, I can decipher through content and videos.
• 48:30 - 49:00 But, it's like if I was to go back to like a new trader and I watch 20 different videos, I can be led on a bad path and then you go on Instagram and you see like the crazy account and crazy stuff. Yeah. You know, it sets bad expectations, right? And for me, it's like that's where the bad part of trading has come to at this current stage. So, when even when I started trading, I think some of the videos I help were definitely like your video. There was like probably honestly like back even like till 2021 I want to say
• 49:00 - 49:30 there was honestly probably like five big YouTube creators that were like that were like doing it and you could see like the people back then were legit too cuz like there was no need to like why are you even making YouTube videos at that point, right? So it's one of those things. It's like those people were like you could actually follow them and they were showing results. Now it's like I even I go on YouTube sometimes and I'll scroll and I'll see my thumbnail, my title on 100 different videos and I'm like what are we doing here? Right? So, it's just one of those things where there's a hundred people now that you can watch. So, you just have to filter
• 49:30 - 50:00 out. There's a lot more education, a lot more. And there's honestly better education, too. However, like you said, there's better education, there's more education, but with that comes a lot of bad information and things that genuinely don't work or people just pushing their own agendas in terms of profits, brokers, whatever it may be. With that being said, if you had, let's say, five grand to your net, right? That's that's you were stripped from basically everything. You have five grand right now. at the age you are too like five grand that's it. What are you doing today with may it be trading business whatever it may be try to come
• 50:00 - 50:30 back to a level of where you are today let's say you have the skills so you have the skills of trading you've you've done what you what you've done I mean I wouldn't really try to flip a 5k account but if I had to I think I do a really good job on it I would trade options right I would trade an option that would probably grow that account get it to 50 to 80 grand and I don't know how long right if I only have five grand and it's a little bit you know risk off yeah I would just trade options and just show that live. Like if I was to come up now and I had I had the same skills and I
• 50:30 - 51:00 had no social media following, no anything, but just start an account 5K, grow it live from 5 to whatever amount, just show everyone the whole journey and then probably use some of the capital from that and go into going to text. You said that you'll grow through options. The one thing a lot of people are going to take is, okay, he's going to grow through options, so let me just go buy random options because he said he's going to do it. So let's really specify that in terms of are you going to be what are you doing? Are you trading the same strategy every day? Are you going to be, you know, consistently executing what you're doing now or are you going to change your system into something that's a little bit more small account
• 51:00 - 51:30 friendly? That's a question I get a lot. Small account friendliness. Um, because I trade live every single day for myself. And so every single trade I've taken in the last year and a half, every single trade recorded live in front of like genuinely at this point now like thousands of people on voice too. So it's one of those things like you just can't do that, you know, like cons like most traders can't do that consistently type of thing. So doing that, one of the biggest things that I get is Scarface or Tony, like he takes, you know, Tesla for example, and the contracts are $20. And
• 51:30 - 52:00 so I can't do that. So yes, he made 20 grand on this trade, but I can't do it because I only have a one grand account, a $500 account. So yeah, but I think on a five grand account, I feel like you can trade most things. I don't know what you can trade on a five grand account. I mean, Amazon before they're split maybe. Right. No. Yeah. But but the question there is like it's not even about let's say five grand. Let's say Tesla usually the contracts let's just say they're like $10 15 10 to you know but let's just say like let's say make it $1,000 right what are you doing now I trade spy
• 52:00 - 52:30 I trade spy contracts right I would just scale up spy contracts which is what I primarily trade now um so you only trade spy now a lot of spy test recently yeah I look at ES futures uh and then I use that to indicate my spy trades the reason I trade options is options are just they're more capital efficient in terms of return you can make on on capital invested but there is like this problem with options as well I don't think they're the most efficient mechanism to trade for majority of
• 52:30 - 53:00 people I think for majority of people they should start out trading futures not options the reason I say futures is because I think the risk factor and the volatility volatility in options can really kill some people like not kill them but like kill their accounts and then I also think that with IV and looking at uh how big starts moving and like adding a few variables. Trading options as like someone that has no knowledge becomes a little bit more difficult for me. If I was to start and I had no knowledge, I would probably
• 53:00 - 53:30 start off with futures. I would not personally touch options. But this is going with like, hey, I still have my 10 12 years of experience. I understand how to trade the underlying asset. Yeah. Like I feel like yeah, I feel like if I I don't even want to say this out loud, but I feel like if I trade a 5K account today, by the summer, I could probably grow to 100 grand. If you have the skill. Yeah. If you have the skill, I think I could. I And it's also just to answer that in terms of people that go, well, the biggest hedge funds in the world can't make more than 30%. It's like like this is my thing with like
• 53:30 - 54:00 humans. Humans see a line and then they read it and then they run with it and they don't go deeper into that line. And that's why like the issue with headlines is so problematic now because people see one headline and they like believe it. The reason hedge funds make 30 40% is hedge funds once again deal with billions and billions and billions of dollars. Hedge funds cannot buy a stock and sell a stock in micros secondsonds because their positions are too large. If I go into position at 100k, 200k, even if I go in for a million bucks, 2 million bucks, it does nothing. Like my
• 54:00 - 54:30 Tesla position, it was like five and a half, $6 million. Market doesn't care about that. Like I'm essentially like very very very small, right? So it's like I can I can go buy $20 million on Tesla tomorrow. I can place a market order. Market doesn't believe nothing else. I can press 20 million again. Same thing. Nothing happens. Now, if I'm a hedge fund and I have I have to allocate $5 billion. Now, it's different. Now, the way I buy, I I'm not going market, right? It doesn't work the same way. So, it's like, so people are like, "Oh, well, how are you going to grow 5K
• 54:30 - 55:00 account to 100K, that's this much return." And it's like, yeah, it's different than hedge fun. I agree with that 100%. So, one of the main things that people always talk about is the percentage that Spy does 8% a year average compounding. So you're not beating that as a trader. That's like one of the biggest things that I see online is like a trader is not being 8% or 10% that spy does over a long period of time, right? But then you have people like for example you who have turned, you know, whatever you started with to eight figures plus just trading, right?
• 55:00 - 55:30 Obviously did a little bit more than 8% a year. Um so to those people kind of like how you just answered, right? Like there's obviously they're dealing with billions of dollars and they have to they have a bunch of regulations and stuff like that. If you as a trader, let's say you do have the money to trade and you have every you have everything, but now you don't have the skill. So now you have the money, but let's say you get stripped of your trading skill, but you have the money you have right now. Right now, are you in a better boat having, you know, millions and millions of dollars or are you in a better boat having the skill with no money? Like I I would probably swing trade and I would like start swinging positions and stuff,
• 55:30 - 56:00 but like am I going to actively trade now or get into it? Me like factoring my situation, my position, all of these things, no. But now if you take me as like me and like I'm not financially well and like that's a whole different conversation, right? Right. Because also like the first two years of trading is brutal, right? You go through like the whole high ups and downs and like you feel like you figured it out like I got this. This is it and then boom, the market punches you in the face and then you go through those cycles again and again, right? So that's like the first I'm going to ask you this too. So, like
• 56:00 - 56:30 the one the first thing for me was when I I want to say made my first $100,000 month. I was the most ecstatic person. I thought I beat the cheap like the Matrix. I beat the anything that the, you know, had to offer. So, I went and, you know, had to go and buy a Lambo, do whatever all the dumb stuff kids do. And I feel like, but then that took a huge toll on my trading, too, because now it's like, all right, well, now you have this like car in your garage. You barely drive the car. First of all, I live in Canada, so you barely drive the car, but
• 56:30 - 57:00 you have it there and you're paying, you know, so now your trading is taking a toll. Have you had that where because you kind of saw success in trading, it is a skill when when you learn it, you can make consistent money for the rest of your life. But what's your opinion on that? Right? Like when you first started seeing that initial success, we're talking about like maybe first 50k month, first 100k month. Did you do anything stupid or dumb where it's like, oh, let me go do this and you know, kind of even honestly even like show people like, yo, I did it, you know, type of thing. So I I I feel like back then at least for me it was like also from my
• 57:00 - 57:30 background like showing how much you made was like a big thing and it's like you shouldn't share it. Mom was always like you're going to get nuzzer don't post it. Like it's all Yeah. It's all always in the back of your head. Um so I wasn't really the biggest fan of it. It was also very looked down upon. It's also you go through there's just like interesting stage right. I think when you're first on social media the only people that are following you are like people you know. Yeah. So it's like you feel cringe posting something right. So
• 57:30 - 58:00 it's like for me I think 1819 when I was trading and like anytime I wanted to post something trading rel related it's like I have 500 followers time. Right. I'm like freak like everyone that's watching me is like people I went to college with or high school with or know your family. It just you feel weird. Yeah. So it's like you do have to break out of that area of like when you start getting 5,000 people or 10,000 people. So now it's like okay well you can get away with posting or sharing some stuff but early on I feel like sharing is like it is that hard wall you have to get
• 58:00 - 58:30 over and then I think when like spending like for me one thing one thing was like I never like a like I I did not spend money at all like like I was not a spender ever like I'm not I was never the guy that went and bought a table at a club or like started spending 40k a night even like when I bought the car Like I I still justified it because I got it at such a cheap price. I think I paid 440 for it at the time and like it
• 58:30 - 59:00 was listed for 500. Like it was just for me it was like okay if I pay this and like worst case worse like I can't afford it. I can't I still have equity in the like you know like it's it's not like I'm burning half a million dollars almost right. So it's like I've never had bad spending habits and I the reason I've never have had them even now it's like it's like one I I don't care for materialistic things at that stage and second it's like I'm very because when I used to work and I used to make $8 an hour and like I wouldn't go and buy Starbucks some days because I'm like
• 59:00 - 59:30 damn I got to work a whole hour. That mindset stayed with me for some time. It's very crazy how similar our thought process is. I used to work at Amazon and um when it's for like Amazon delivery driver and like at the end of the shift people would go to you know we have like Starbucks back home it's called Tim Hortons same thing um and yeah people love Tim Hortons by the way they see it in New York there's a few ones in New York they're like oh I see Canadians come down like you guys have a Tim Hortons yeah it's [ __ ] you
• 59:30 - 60:00 guys love this huh it's a big it's our Starbucks but so people go there and you know like buy coffee whatever I wouldn't buy anything I Like literally it was a I'm not even kidding. There was it was a cookie for $1.50. I'm like if I save this $150 right now like I'll be blessed, you know? And um so I would genuinely save and so that car the the only purchase that I had was a Lamborghini Huracan in like 2021 or 2020. That was like my only like dumb purchase that I knew was dumb, but like I just did it anyways. Other than that,
• 60:00 - 60:30 even to this day, like I was telling, you know, even someone else, but like 90% of the income that I make is being safe. Honestly, I I probably it's 95, but like it's all being saved other than taxes, which is that's a whole different thing. Now, another thing is as a trader, let's see, let's say you do start seeing consistency. I know a traders um that make money and then boom, it's the craziest lifestyle you've ever seen type of thing, right? So, what do you think about that? Because trading is a
• 60:30 - 61:00 skill that once you start making money. Yeah, you can be consistent, but then there's comes a point too where it's like yes, you can make consistent money, but that doesn't mean you can there's going to be down periods. You're going to have periods of, you know, a year down maybe, maybe even potentially like two years down, right? And then can you cons cuz you don't have the money saved up. You have no nothing to fall back on. So the traders that make real money and are on their first four or five years of like making money aren't the biggest flashy spenders. The ones that spend a
• 61:00 - 61:30 lot over and over again and they go into the whole lifestyle marketing consistently, it's done because they need to do it. And the concept there is make the money, spend the money, grow audience. Make the money, spend the money, grow audience. And that's what I was saying. Like that's majority of Miami traders, right? Like and and this is my thing, right? Like and you know, and and I know when I say things like this is people that live here, they they get really mad and aggravated. And my thing is like, okay, well, how if if you
• 61:30 - 62:00 guys didn't post any flashy stuff, you forget flashes, keep posting flashy stuff, keep posting it, right? And I can make this bet with almost 99% of people. Shut down all your affiliate partnerships. Maintain the same lifestyle for 18 months. 99% of people can't do it. So then it goes into like why are these 99% of people doing the things they're doing? It's to recoup the audience. That's where it becomes that's like that's where trading especially like in Miami is like kind of destroyed the industry
• 62:00 - 62:30 and like some of the prop deals and the affiliate deals and I'm like there's nothing wrong with spending money. I'm not saying to not spend money and but it's like I see some of the [ __ ] and I'm like that's just not cool. Like it's also it's not good not because of that but because I think the next generation gets influenced the wrong way. Like my my my issue there becomes I think when I I think when you have a following you have a social responsibility. Like I don't care what anyone says. You have a
• 62:30 - 63:00 following, you have a social responsibility. There is another 18-year-old kid watching you or 17-year-old or 15y old kid watching you who's not in the best financial situation of their life and they're watching you as the person to get out. And it's like what are you doing to help them? Are you guiding them the wrong way for your own benefit or are you actually giving them the right advice? Like I see some traders go, you know, there's a few traders online that'll say risking 1% is for like [ __ ] And it's like that's
• 63:00 - 63:30 not that's that's like what why would you say that? There's there's someone watching you who's now not who's going to go and risk the whole account and keep blowing it over and over again. So it's like you have to be mindful of those things. You have to be mindful I think of the things you share and like yeah having a good lifestyle I think is great but at the same time it's like you know how things are here and you know how things go. It's just it's not the best. We talked about it. We were even before we started filming we talked about it like you can be in Miami for I
• 63:30 - 64:00 want to say one week max and then after that you need bro I can't I can't be here for like two nights. Yeah. Like I I I swear I got down here I think what was it Tuesday or Wednesday and like my first night I'm like oh [ __ ] I want to go home. Yeah. And then Thursday I'm like go [ __ ] I'm home now today. I'm like, "Thank God it's Friday. I like I get to leave." It's just just I think Miami is cool, but it's like it's the energy. It's the people. I don't know. I'm not I'm just not a fan of it. I think there's an intermediate of it, too. It's like it depends on the people, too. Oh, yeah. There cuz there's people obviously we
• 64:00 - 64:30 got to say there's people in Miami that are super legit doing really well, right? Um, but then there's obviously that side where it's like, you know, I think one of the main things too with the whole like flashy lifestyle thing. I think it's like you gota it's also you want to think about it from a POV of like why you have to think about why. So when I do content for example, I always try to lead with value in terms of like if I'm if I if even if I for example like I just bought the revolto recently, I wanted to show not show that off but I
• 64:30 - 65:00 wanted to show that trading can get you to this point. this is something that trading can do, right? Um, but it's not like my every single video is look at this car, look at this house, you know? And that's the thing where where you start seeing that on social media like like people have trading channels and it's not trading, it's lifestyle. And I'm like, you know, at that point humbly or respectfully, if you're buying anything from anyone that is that's supposed to have a particular skill set and all they're showing you is lifestyle and not value, you have to lead with
• 65:00 - 65:30 value, right? Cuz it's even even back. So for example, my channel value mostly, right? And then the the things that I want to show in terms of the cool things that I'm doing because once again, I think it's motivation motivational to show it. For example, when I was watching you, yours was strictly like even back then like I remember like watching every single trade review you used to do back in the day and then you posted the car video and that was it was honestly motivating. It wasn't even like you know me like I wasn't even in the position to buy anything from you at the time to be frankly honest with you, right? I'm watching your free content
• 65:30 - 66:00 and I'm just I it was motivational to watch you buy the car, right? So, I think that's kind of the same thing for me. Like just watch the free stuff and then just, you know, be motivated, right? That's like literally the only thing. But when it's every single thing is motivation and there's nothing to back it up. Like if you ask any of these people, what's funny too, and I was talking to someone else about this is a lot of traders here when you ask them about strategy, like what's your strategy, right? Like most people can answer in like five sentences max, right? ask them one day it'll be order flow the next day it'll be supply and
• 66:00 - 66:30 demand then it'll be ICT then it'll be whatever is like the new trend is what their strategy is so what do you think about that strategy hopping um not even for like those traders but like in general for new traders as well like what do you think like cuz do you think everyone should try different strategies and then come to one or do you think have one strategy have one system and just keep continuously going down that road I think I think before strategy you have to have one way that you look at the market right so for example I feel like I'm looking at supply and demand and order flow, right? Like okay to to
• 66:30 - 67:00 the basis of order flow. What is orderflow, right? What are you looking for in order flow? Oh, like and you know a lot of times when you have conversations with some people you can just know like oh if you trade orderflow like what's your basis of order flow? 95% of people don't even know that. They just know the tool names, right? And I think knowing like, okay, well, if I'm trading, let's say a certain way, right? Because I think it starts on what is your approach to the market and then I think in that approach, you start building out strategies. So, for example, if my approach is looking at
• 67:00 - 67:30 the market as an auction and I think there's a relationship between buyers and sellers, my question then becomes how do I identify that? And then what are the two, three, four setups around that that I'm looking for that confirm the setup or confirm the strategy or confirm this thesis or idea. Right? I think when people hop from like setup to setup to setup, it doesn't really make sense because a setup is contingent on your overall viewpoint of the market and
• 67:30 - 68:00 overall structure of like how you analyze the market, right? Some people once again like they'll trade ICT. I don't really know how ICT is or how it's not. But it's like ICT has it own way of trading, right? Once again, I have nothing good or bad to say about it. I've never traded, never tried it. I don't know enough about it. But it's like you need to understand the ideology of like his concepts or the concepts. Uh same thing if you go on to let's say trading supply and demand, right? Supply and demand a little bit goes into order flow, right? Depending on how you view it. But if you're looking at supply and demand, what are you looking at supply
• 68:00 - 68:30 and demand? What do you identify as trending? what you uh identify as flat days, what do you identify as like real supply, what do you identify as like movements that are going to bounce off supply. So like you can identify that in terms of like approaches and then you build strategy. I think when you just go from strategy to strategy to strategy, I don't think you they have a strong enough thesis for a setup. And when you have conversations with people like from beginner traders to advanced traders, you can kind of pick that up. And I always tell people like, hey, stop picking different strategies. Just pick
• 68:30 - 69:00 a way that you want to look at the market and then from that way look at the pockets that you want to trade in and then call your strategy whatever you want to call it have like a consistency of a rule towards it that makes sense for like there's a possibility of this going up if it does that there's a possibility of this going down if it does that I think that's important how you just said if it does that and that's something traders need to understand it's like I will go long if the stock for example retest a certain level or whatever it may Right. I trade regular
• 69:00 - 69:30 test. [Music] One of the main questions I get is trading income split. Meaning, let's say you're making money trading. Do you finally start being consistent? What's a good income split? 10% is allocated here, 50% is allocated to this, like in terms of long-term sustaining it, or have you ever even thought about? I I've never honestly I've never really thought about it. I think I think for me because I I was never like making money from
• 69:30 - 70:00 trading and spending it, making money from trading and spending it for like at least a couple years. A lot of it was just like just keep making the money and keep putting money away, keep putting money away, keep money putting money away. There's also a thing with my trading and I think I've said this before, I never felt like I could do it again until like year sevenish. Mhm. So like every year like year one I was like [ __ ] year two was eh year three four is when I started getting a little bit consistency and like afterwards like when I go to year five and six it was always like okay like I made money this
• 70:00 - 70:30 year can I make it again next year like I don't know so like I always had that little fear factor inside me and I think that's also why I was afraid to be stupid with money right because I was like [ __ ] what if I can't do it again what if I can't do it again like when I got to like year eight kind of in like 2019 is where I started really getting comfortable Right. And then I think after 2020, like I had my whole fiasco with the spy short trade, uh, is when like I took a little bit of a mental hit. But afterwards, like when I got out of that, I was like, bro, like I'm going to make money trading as for as long as
• 70:30 - 71:00 I possibly want. So that's a very interesting point to bring up. Made it you made a lot a lot of money, whatever, but you don't know how long it's going to be sustaining for. Even even though you've learned the skill, there is that fear. What actually made you get over the point of like, oh, like I can do this like and and I'll probably sustain this for the rest of my life. I think I think when I went through really bad draw downs and every time I got myself out of them over and over again and I think the bigger one was when I had like a big bad spy trade and like mentally messed me up and it just like kind of threw me off a lot. I think that's when
• 71:00 - 71:30 and where it kind of like gave me the confidence of like, okay, get myself out of it. I understand this is a process I have to follow. I've been in this spot many, many, many times and every time I'm out of it, if I do the X, Y, and Z things over and over again, I'll get out of it. Mh. Right? Because it's like when you when you go in draw down, right? When you go to draw down like the first time or the second time or the fourth time or like the ninth time, you're like [ __ ] Oh, man. Like I can't tell you how many times until like 2020 was like and I I think by then it was my seventh year,
• 71:30 - 72:00 eighth year where I was like, have I gotten lucky this whole time? Yeah. Am I actually good? Do I actually know what I'm doing? Right. So it's like you start questioning everything about yourself. You're trading. You start questioning your abilities and everything around it. And that's what kind of really threw me off. I I think when you go through it quite enough a good amount of times and you just like break out of it. So like right now what what do you like that's what you feel? I don't know because I've never personally went through draw like it's bad but like I've been through draw down where it's like okay I'm down 50
• 72:00 - 72:30 grand. I'm down 60 grand. Like that's a big sum of money but it's not like life like whatever like you know like you can get that back like one trade could theoretically get that back. But so I've never actually went cuz I remember you publicly did that spy trade 2020. 2020. Yeah. So I I actually vividly remember that I was down here in Miami. Yeah. You were tweeting that on Twitter? No. Yeah, bro. Oh my god, that was that was so hard visually. Oh man. So when I saw that draw down, I was like, "Okay, cool." Like and then you got through it and I in my head I was like, "Oh, like
• 72:30 - 73:00 he's such a good trader. He's going to get through it." Like I didn't even question the fact that like you even to be like scared about that until now when I'm like oh like you know like that was probably you 7 years in now I'm 7 years in I'm like oh like no like I'm still yeah like I'm I'm scared if I if I had to go through a draw down like that but I've never been through a draw down like that and that's why I feel like I'm asking you that question. I feel like if once I do get put into a point where you know knock on wood I but like once I do get into a draw down that's really when it tests like okay can you get back out of this and that's why I feel like I'm a
• 73:00 - 73:30 little bit more I wouldn't even say scared like I'm really not but it's like it's just something that's like what will happen it's like what if where you've already done the what if you know what I'm saying obviously at the time terrible for your mental health terrible for your trading your whatever but looking back at it would you say that that was the best thing that's happened uh yeah I mean looking back at it now, but in the moment it was the worst thing of See, in the moment it was bad. What a lot of people got wrong is like people thought it was like the money part of it. Mhm. Yeah. The money hurt. I was like, "Fuck, I lost half a million dollars. I just spent that on the car and now I lost it." And like, mind you,
• 73:30 - 74:00 like so many things happened in that quarter. Like I just moved to Miami recently. I just ended up spending half a million on on the car. Also, a lot of good things happened. I made the most amount of money in 3 months than I ever did in my whole life. So, everything is like going so good. Mhm. And then I went on this high and that high just led me to like take this trade that I was and at that time a lot of trades I would take I was public about it right I'm on YouTube on Twitter I'm like hey I'm on Tesla I'm like short this at a community I did like the whole nine yards of like
• 74:00 - 74:30 live everything. One one trade I took just kind of messed me up because once it went out and it went against me and I started losing money everyone's like oh look he doesn't know how to trade a bare market. Oh look he doesn't actually know how to trade. Oh, look. He's just been making money cuz the market's been Everyone's smart in a bull market. Yeah. And like, you know, you hear that and you're like, [ __ ] Like, maybe they're right. Yeah. No, it does. It does get to you 100%. Highs and lows of trading. Yeah. Wow. I can relate to the highs and lows of just trading, business, whatever. There's always highs and lows. And I've been doing it for a while. I know how to kind of deal with it, which
• 74:30 - 75:00 is my kind of dealing with it is like when you're at a high, just know you're at a high. And understanding that knowing you're at a high and you're going to come back to a low is so crucial because you will come back to a low at some point. And then you're at a [Music] low as a trader when you're at a high. How do you determine it and how are you like cool with it? Because when you're at a low sometimes it's like will I ever get back to that high? Like will I ever get back to that level? And then like 2 weeks later you're you're there and you're like damn like I'm the best trader. I'm the best whatever. And then
• 75:00 - 75:30 2 weeks later you're back at a low. So there's always that. So how do you feel about that? How did you kind of like balance yourself out to for the long-term success? So now I rarely go through that. Okay. But like once again now is what, like 12 years, 13 years? I don't even know how long. Have you ever seen Have you ever seen the Dwayne uh Dwayne Johnson and uh what's his name? Kevin Hart thing. It was like, oh, he makes money for how long? Yeah. He's like he's like he bought cuz he he bought his mom like a a house or whatever and it's like a billion dollars later now. It's like that's it's like
• 75:30 - 76:00 Yeah. Now. Okay, bro. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. But yeah, I I think now it's it's I don't really It doesn't really happen. And I think I'm very mentally monotone about trading. Yeah. Like even my Tesla trade, right? And I was like, "Oh my god, how did you feel?" And I'm like like internally, yeah. Like I was like, "Fuck yeah, I did bull on it." But I'm also like, "Damn, I didn't size the way I wanted to size on it." Cuz I was going to size heavier until I went and I spoke to four or five people and that like kind of killed my idea a little bit. I was like, "Oh, maybe they're right." But it's like I'll have a good trade down. I'm like, "Okay, this good trade doesn't mean anything." And I'll
• 76:00 - 76:30 have a bad trade and the same concept. It doesn't mean anything. So try to apply same elements. Uh, I think when it does start impacting is when you start going on like a nine 10 trade losing streak, which thank god I haven't had for a while. But what I do now is if I start hitting one or two, three losing streaks, I need I try to get a quick win to get out of that losing streak to get some like win in my kind of flow and that helps me like stay remain momentum, right? Because it's like when you when you have a four day or four trade or five trade losing streak, you naturally go to like let me take the next trade a
• 76:30 - 77:00 little bit. Yeah. and all those things just kind of throw you off. One thing that I always say is like I'm not emotional in trades anymore. If I lose a trade, I'm like whatever, I lost a trade. I'm going to make it back regardless. But then, and to be honest, I've been on a pretty good winning streak for the last like yearish. Like, you know, obviously I've had red trades, red days, but like overall like my green days outweigh it. But let's say you go on a oneweek losing streak, two weeks. Does that still to this day kind of hinder your, you know, short-term
• 77:00 - 77:30 trading performance? Not long-term, obviously. We know longterm it's fine. Short term though, do you think that does hinder it because of your emotions? I think it hinders it. I don't know if it's emotions or what, but it's like from a performance point of view, I'm like, why am I such an idiot? I think there's two types of trades, right? There's a trade where it's like, okay, I did everything right. I did everything I was supposed to do. And it just didn't work out. I can live with that old day. I think what I would naturally I didn't I I think from a performance point of view, and a competitive point of view, it's like I wasn't supposed to take that trade. Why the hell? Like, why was I so
• 77:30 - 78:00 stupid to take that trade? Why did I oversize on this trade? How did I miss this? We've been selling off for 4 days. Why am I still like why was I so biased? Like those things that bother me, right? And I think that bother me more now. It's like and and I get it. It's natural, but it's like wow, I've been doing this for like 12, 13 years. Like, why am I doing this now? Why am I making the same mistake? And it's like you you keep making these similar mistakes as humans and it'll happen. It's like as long as you can get yourself out of it quick enough. But yeah, like ultimately
• 78:00 - 78:30 I it bothers me to Yeah. No, I was just going to say sometimes like I feel like I'll make the most like dumbass mistake genuinely like genuinely a mistake that doesn't even make sense why I'm making it and then it'll be like did I learn anything over the last seven years type of thing. And it honestly it's not even for your like kind of like it's honestly more so your confidence that gets hit in my opinion than anything else because even now for example like on YouTube like I'll be you know talking about a concept and I know the concept I've traded the concept well before and then I'll not trade it well for the one time or whatever and I'm like this is
• 78:30 - 79:00 something I teach like this is literally something that people watch me and say oh you've helped me do this and then I just messed it up live. So it's like you know I think that's kind of what hinders your ability. Now talking back to your live trading. So, you were live trading in like 2020 in front of people. Yeah. Do you think that affected your performance? Because right now, I'm at a point where I'm trading live. Like I said, every single trade for the last year and about a year and two months or something, every trade has been taken live and recorded either like on text or
• 79:00 - 79:30 voice, whatever. So, because of that, in real time, when you're doing that in front of thousands of people, like it can obviously be a little bit more like, you know, not nerve-wracking anymore. Now it's super chill, but back then it was like when I first started it was nerve-wracking. When you were trading in front of people compared to trading alone and privately, how has that changed your trading performance? I mean, I think naturally you you you will always trade better when you're alone. Like that's what I think I trading. I made more money when I trade alone. Okay. Right. And there's two reasons. And I think it depends on you cuz it can impact you in a healthy or negative way.
• 79:30 - 80:00 For example, when you when you when you're trading, let me let me flip this to you for a second. when you're trading in front of people or whatever the case may be, are you more like, "Fuck, if I take this bad trade, people are going to lose money or are you more like, I need to be more disciplined because I'm being watched?" How are you looking at those things? Well, first of all, I only trade one or two. Like, I literally only take one or two trades a day for myself personally. So, like usually I'll take like one trade a day. Yeah. Now, on top of that, the main thing for me is like I don't really care if I lose money to be honest. It's just, and I say this all
• 80:00 - 80:30 the time, I'm not an alert service. I am a trader that's just trading the trade. So, if you want to take the trade, be my guest. If you don't want to, be my guest and learn from it. The key is to learn from it. But then, we know in trading, most people are going to go ahead and take that trade, right? It's just that's what they're going to do. Like I said, it doesn't really affect me as much anymore, but back when I first started, it was definitely like one of those things where it's like, oh, like if these people take this trade, they're going to lose and it's going to be like my fault technically. That boat is underwater. Yeah, that boat is generally underwater. So what's your outlook now? 10 years
• 80:30 - 81:00 from now like what do you have that outlook now? I I don't have a 10 year plan. 10 year I feel like so now it's just more like dayby day type of thing. Not day by day but like even at 25 and 24 it was like a 2-year thing. Yeah. That's that's honestly how I am too because I think I think the world changes so much like so much where you can plan for 10 years but like it's just it becomes very stupid. You don't even know what's going to happen next year. It's so crazy AI it's like the world is
• 81:00 - 81:30 evolving and changing so much with content that like everything is just changing and it's changing at like such a fast pace. So it's like we can plan like oh what are we going to do in 10 years? My thing is like like my my my whole 10 20 30 40 year outlook is once again as long as I wake up and I enjoy what I do on a dayto-day and I get to pick the things I I'm doing I win. I I don't care about anything. So talking about that and talking about like kind of long-term you have trading income. We talked about how you saved your trading
• 81:30 - 82:00 income. Why what are you going to do basically with the money that you've made from trading? Is trading the final goal or is trading a tool that you can use for the final goal and what does that final goal look like for you? I mean when I first started trading for me that was like the end goal and then I start as I started trading more and more trading became more of a vehicle right for me to get to the next stage of life from a financial success and a business success. So for me, trading is just that vehicle, right? That's how I look at like, do I think at 35 or 40 I'll be
• 82:00 - 82:30 trading. As years go by and by and I think people see it on social media, too, I'm trading less, trading with more size. I'm not showing up every day. Like a lot of things start changing. So it's like I'm more focused on to like building this business or that business and being involved more into like building software now. Uh it's something I enjoy more. Like I was saying to you before, people are more there's more of a sex appeal with saying I'm a 23-y old millionaire and being so successful at 23 than like, "Oh, I'm 30 and I'm successful." Even though 30 isn't old,
• 82:30 - 83:00 it's still like I'm not saying it cuz I'm 30, but it's like just overall, right? Putting himself in unsatis. Yeah. People are like, "Oh, he's he's saying it cuz he's 30." No, it's it's like actually it's not old for people that are watching that are maybe 32, 33, but it's like the the idea of being 23 and and and doing really well and showcasing discipline and and structure and all these things in your life is far more impressive and valuable to people than like when you're a lot older. Would you say would you But then there's also people that say trading like you need to be older to be a trader. Now you saw
• 83:00 - 83:30 trading success young, but now you're also, you know, punk. Um, and so with that being said though, like is it is it actually possible to see consistency as a trader young or like do you have to be older? Do you have to go through like years and years and years? Or like is it possible within like 2 years, let's say that like you're like 18, you're like you turn 20 and then like you can see that kind of I think I think it's totally possible. 2 years is more than a good enough time. I also think it depends on the person like like see you're 23, right? A lot of people that are 23 at your age are nowhere near as
• 83:30 - 84:00 mature as you are. like nowhere near as mature as you are. They're nowhere near as self-aware as you are. Uh and and maturity also comes in like like with money for example. You're smart. You're not you're not making a million and like blowing a million. You're not making 4 million and blowing 4 million. You're not doing these stupid acts and you don't have the 20-year-old 23y old mindset where it's like, "Oh [ __ ] I need to like fulfill what people want and fulfill what people are doing and I I need to satisfy other people." You're like, "Hey, I'm making I'm making my money. I'm saving 90 95% of it, which is
• 84:00 - 84:30 I think a good thing to do and a smart thing to do. And now if you flip that to another 23-year-old, he probably has less than 50,000 to his name while making a couple of million a year. And I know I know people like that. Yeah. Right. So it's like I think it depends on the person. The same thing in trading in two years. Can you achieve a large amount of success? Yes. Even if you're 20, even if you're 19 or 21, 22, it harder typically. Yeah. because most people under 25 are not mature and they
• 84:30 - 85:00 don't have the discipline or the structure uh or the ability to recognize things they're messing up on. So I think when I personally I see someone that's 23 22 21 and they they are doing the right things. I'm like [ __ ] like that's a lot harder to do then than doing it at like 30 or 35 or 40. Mhm. So that's up to you bro. Thank you. What can what can we expect next from uh from Umar? I don't know what we can expect next from me. I want to know what we can expect next from you. And I mean I just want to say with the camera here, I never really got a chance to say it to you, but I think overall I think the value you
• 85:00 - 85:30 share online is like I think extremely extremely valuable. And I'm saying that because I didn't know what you look like when we first followed each other. I had no idea anything. I just saw Scarface trades. I'm like, "Bro, who's this guy?" And I like I went through your content. I'm like, "Wow, this is like good content, right?" And there was no lifestyle stuff. There was no anything. It was just pure raw value, right? So like hats off to you for like bringing that into the trading community because I think trading community is so [ __ ] in a bad way like genuinely where it's
• 85:30 - 86:00 like people are just like posting [ __ ] and posting nonsense. So I think when when I see someone come in and like offer raw value and and and guide the next generation of kids of like hey save 90% of your money be smart with your money. Don't go and spend it all on clubs and don't go and buy like a million different chains and all that. you know, have fun, spend a little bit of it, but like be smart and build your life, you know. Hats off to you for that cuz I think at 23, 24, even 25, that's hard to do. And bro, you're absolutely crushing it. I appreciate that, bro. Thank you, bro. Thank you for watching
• 86:00 - 86:30 this video. And I'll catch you guys. Last thing. Hold on. Last thing. Are you engaged? What's that, brother? Right hand. Right hand. Right hand. Right hand. Okay. Okay. I saw that. I'm like I'm like, "Wait, he's asking me about marriage, but is he engaged?" Right hand. Right hand. What's the secret? Right hand. Right hand. All right. All right, we'll catch you guys next time.