Why Jesus Needed to Hide the Shocking Truth of the Afterlife from Us

Summary

In a fascinating exploration of the enigmatic teachings of Jesus, Dr. Jonathan Rose and Curtis Childs delve into why Jesus chose to cloak the true nature of the afterlife in parables and metaphors. According to them, humanity was not ready to grasp the full reality of heaven during Jesus' time. They highlight how the symbolic language of parables, such as the mustard seed or the fishing net, acts as a vessel for deeper truths about spiritual growth and the essence of heaven. Drawing insights from Emanuel Swedenborg's writings, the discussion reveals how spiritual growth is akin to a personal journey where heaven manifests within us as we align with divine truths and love.

Highlights

• Jesus' parables, like the mustard seed, serve as metaphors for spiritual understanding and inner growth 🌿.
• The kingdom of heaven, according to Swedenborg, is an internal state achievable by aligning oneself with divine love ❤️.
• The discussion explores deep spiritual concepts found in common experiences like farming or baking, making them relatable 🌾.
• Swedenborg's writings provide an expanded understanding, revealing layers of meaning within each parable 📚.
• Heaven is not merely a static place but a dynamic state of being guided by ongoing personal transformation 🌟.
• Eternal values, such as love and wisdom, are depicted as the true treasures we should seek, contrasting with temporal earthly pursuits 💎.

Key Takeaways

• Jesus used parables to conceal the full truth about heaven because humanity was not ready to comprehend it then 🕵️‍♂️.
• Parables act as a spiritual guide, filled with hidden meanings that reveal themselves when we're mature enough to understand 🌱.
• According to Swedenborg's interpretations, the kingdom of heaven refers to states within ourselves that are governed by love and truth ❤️.
• Spiritual growth, likened to a mustard seed growing or bread leavening, is both a personal and ongoing journey 🚀.
• Different types of spirituality and understanding are represented by varied elements like fish or pearls, each symbolizing unique aspects of internal growth 🐟.
• The ultimate essence of heaven is realized when individuals harmonize their thoughts and actions with divine love and wisdom 🌌.

Overview

In this insightful episode, the conversation unravels the complexities behind why Jesus might have chosen to cloak his teachings about the afterlife in parables. They propose that at the time, people were not ready for a direct explanation. Instead, metaphors served as time capsules, preserving profound truths until humanity matured enough to decipher them.

The duo delves into the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, who claimed to have had spiritual visions that clarified the symbolic language used by Jesus. They explore the notion that heaven is not a place one goes to after death, but rather a state cultivated within through love and truth—akin to the growth of a plant or bread rising in dough.

By examining various parables like the wheat and the tares, the mustard seed, and the pearl of great price, the discussion sheds light on the symbolism representing different spiritual states and progressions. They emphasize that heaven is an eternal state formed by aligning one's life with divine principles, offering a hopeful guide for personal and spiritual development.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction Jesus often speaks about heaven using metaphors rather than providing a direct description. He describes the kingdom of heaven in various ways, comparing it to a fishing net, yeast in dough, and a pearl hidden in a field. The underlying reason for this indirectness is suggested to be that humanity is not ready to fully comprehend or handle the true nature of heaven.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Parables as Time Capsules This chapter discusses the concept of parables as time capsules containing hidden truths about the kingdom of heaven. The metaphor suggests that these parables, like a time capsule, hold revelations and insights about heaven and the path to reaching it, which are unveiled when the time is ripe. The conversation includes perspectives from Dr. Jonathan Rose and Curtis Childs on why Jesus might have chosen to conceal the startling truths of the afterlife. The chapter emphasizes the significance of understanding heaven.
• 01:00 - 01:30: Understanding Heaven Chapter Title: Understanding Heaven
• 01:30 - 02:00: Symbolic Language of Jesus The chapter explores the symbolic language used by Jesus and throughout the Bible, highlighting its mysterious nature. Swedenborg's book, Heaven and Hell, is referenced, emphasizing the importance of understanding the afterlife. An analogy is mentioned, comparing this understanding to traveling to a foreign country in the 18th century.
• 02:00 - 02:30: Mystery of Heaven's Kingdom In the chapter titled 'Mystery of Heaven's Kingdom', the focus is on understanding the concept of who runs heaven and its significance. This understanding parallels the importance of knowing the authorities and rules of a different earthly kingdom one might visit, especially during the century when the discussion is set. The chapter emphasizes the crucial nature of this knowledge about heaven, although it suggests that people during the time of Jesus were not ready for such understanding. The chapter grounds its claims by referring directly to textual quotes, indicating that the ideas presented are not mere conjectures but are supported by original texts.
• 02:30 - 03:00: Parables in the Bible The chapter 'Parables in the Bible' discusses the use of parables by Jesus in the New Testament. It highlights how Jesus communicated complex, heavenly messages through earthly stories or parables to help the multitudes understand. The text also notes that Jesus used figurative language, indicating that there were deeper meanings behind his words that the people of that time might not have been ready to comprehend fully.
• 03:00 - 03:30: Heaven Inside You In this chapter, there is a focus on the notion of moving from speaking in metaphorical or figurative language to conveying messages more directly and plainly. The text refers to a time when the speaker will no longer rely on figurative speech to explain ideas about the father, but will instead speak clearly and straightforwardly. This change is acknowledged by the disciples, who express their understanding and recognition of the plain language used in the message. The chapter highlights the evolution from indirect communication to a more straightforward approach, leading to better comprehension among the disciples.
• 03:30 - 04:00: Spiritual Nature of Heaven The chapter discusses the spiritual interpretation of heavenly concepts as presented in the Bible through parables given by Jesus. It suggests that although Jesus mentioned having more to reveal, the deeper meanings are already present within the scripture but are concealed, likened to hidden compartments in a chest.
• 04:00 - 04:30: Levels of Heaven The chapter titled 'Levels of Heaven' discusses concepts related to secret knowledge and insights, drawing metaphors such as hidden compartments and invisible ink to describe the discovery of deeper truths. It suggests that Swedenborg received a clear vision of internal stories from Jesus Christ, representing plain teachings, akin to uncovering hidden narratives using special means.
• 04:30 - 05:00: Heaven and Love The chapter "Heaven and Love" delves into the spiritual insights regarding heavenly phenomena and the importance of love as understood through the parables. The transcript implies a discussion on the teachings and parables attributed to Jesus, emphasizing how heaven is metaphorically represented through various analogies. It also touches upon Swedenborg's spiritual experiences, where he claims to have been told by Jesus that all his intended messages to humanity were already encapsulated within his teachings. The focus remains on the interpretation of these parables and their deeper meanings related to heaven and divine love.
• 05:00 - 05:30: Biblical Symbolism This chapter explores the concept of biblical symbolism, emphasizing the importance of understanding metaphors and parables in religious texts. It begins with the analogy of needing a 'Rosetta Stone' to comprehend the language being spoken. The chapter highlights that in allegorical language, elements often symbolize something else, making it crucial to discern what each component represents. It introduces a discussion on parables, specifically referencing a segment from the book of Luke concerning the kingdom of heaven.
• 05:30 - 06:00: The Parable of Wheat and Tares The chapter discusses the concept of the 'kingdom of heaven,' which is depicted as being internal to each person rather than a physical place with geographic boundaries. Unlike traditional kingdoms with visible territories and castles, this spiritual kingdom resides within an individual's soul. The text references the Gospel of Luke, emphasizing that God's kingdom does not manifest in a way that can be observed externally, reinforcing the belief that it exists inside every person rather than in a tangible, physical form.
• 06:00 - 06:30: His Interpretation: Spiritual Insight In the chapter titled 'His Interpretation: Spiritual Insight,' the transcript explores the concept of the second coming from a spiritual perspective, suggesting that it will not be a physical event as commonly depicted. It references Swedenborg's 'Heaven and Hell,' positing that the nature of angels and the spiritual realms they inhabit are determined by the depth of their spiritual openness and acceptance of divine truths and goodness. The chapter emphasizes the significance of inner spiritual development and insight.
• 06:30 - 07:00: Romans 15:4 - Parables and Secrets This chapter delves into Swedenborg's unique experiences and insights regarding heaven. Swedenborg claimed to have had his spiritual eyes opened, allowing him to visit and see the actual state of heaven, which he describes as the state of life after death. This chapter discusses the significance of Swedenborg's contributions and how they expand upon Jesus's teachings about the kingdom of heaven.
• 07:00 - 07:30: Dynamic Element of Heaven This chapter, titled 'Dynamic Element of Heaven,' explores Swedenborg's interpretation of heaven being an internal experience rather than an external place. According to Swedenborg, the concept of heaven is inside us, and it can exist in three different levels. Although he doesn't explicitly label them as levels one, two, and three, the levels can be understood as varying degrees of spiritual and ethical development. The lowest level involves merely obeying rules and knowing what is right. The chapter suggests that deeper levels involve more profound connections to spiritual insights and moral understanding.
• 07:30 - 08:00: Mustard Seed and Kingdom Growth The chapter discusses the concept of the 'Kingdom of Heaven' being within oneself, emphasizing that it's about one's thoughts, feelings, and actions aligning towards doing good. It suggests that living a good life is akin to experiencing heaven, encouraging a simple, action-oriented approach to embodying these principles.
• 08:00 - 08:30: The Process of Growing Heaven This chapter explores the concept of the afterlife and its relation to the state of one's internal life during their earthly existence. It suggests that being in a certain place in heaven is a reflection of the life within you. As one progresses further, it becomes more about understanding and thoughts. Heaven operates under a system of rules or laws, emphasizing how individuals treat each other.
• 08:30 - 09:00: Correspondences and Symbolism The chapter explores the philosophical concept of different levels of heaven, emphasizing the role of internal virtues and love, rather than intellectual debate or external actions, in determining one's heavenly placement.
• 09:00 - 09:30: Transformation into Spiritual Life The chapter titled 'Transformation into Spiritual Life' explores the concept of spiritual realms and transformation as understood through biblical references and the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg. Swedenborg's insights reveal that spiritual life is internal, echoing biblical verses that the kingdom of God is within us. The discussion highlights Swedenborg's interpretation of the Bible as a coded text that speaks about different levels of heaven, similar to the third heaven that Apostle Paul described being caught up to. The chapter delves into deeper spiritual understandings of biblical texts and invites a journey into these spiritual dimensions.
• 09:30 - 10:00: Temporal vs. Eternal Wealth This chapter delves into the dichotomy between temporal and eternal wealth, drawing on biblical references, particularly from the teachings of Jesus. It emphasizes how Jesus highlights the scriptures, indicating their importance and his presence within them. The narrative then shifts focus to the Bible's relevance today, questioning the significance of certain parts, such as the detailed descriptions of the tabernacle's construction. The tabernacle, with its outer court, inner section, and the holy of holies, is used as a metaphor for understanding deeper spiritual structures beyond the physical and material realm. This reflects the broader theme of considering eternal values over temporal wealth.
• 10:00 - 10:30: Parables of Hidden Underlying Truth The chapter discusses the concept of the 'kingdom of heaven,' likening it to the structure of the human mind, which can be opened up to different levels or 'heavens.' There is reference to a spiritual journey towards reaching a 'third heaven' state, where one's mind is fully open to divine connection. This metaphor is applied to scriptural instructions on constructing a physical or spiritual edifice, with detailed parallels between instructions from God and their execution. This underscores the theme of hidden underlying truths within spiritual teachings.
• 10:30 - 11:00: The Pearl of Great Price The chapter titled 'The Pearl of Great Price' explores introspective themes, focusing on the idea that heaven is an internal state rather than an external place. It references Swedenborg, who concludes that our inner nature constitutes heaven and cites a biblical teaching that the kingdom of God resides within us, challenging the notion of searching for heaven outside ourselves.
• 11:00 - 11:30: Concept of Spiritual Wealth In the chapter titled 'Concept of Spiritual Wealth', the discussion revolves around critiques of Swedenborg's interpretations. One major concern addressed is the belief that Swedenborg has veered away from traditional Biblical teachings, adding his own personal experiences and interpretations that some argue are not in line with the Bible. Critics highlight the Biblical warning against adding or subtracting from the scriptures, suggesting that Swedenborg's contributions might fall into this category.
• 11:30 - 12:00: Intelligence vs. Wisdom In this chapter titled 'Intelligence vs. Wisdom,' the discussion centers around an individual who perceives his insights as deeply rooted in biblical context. He believes his observations and teachings are extensions of biblical truth. The chapter highlights the interconnectedness of intelligence and wisdom with religious texts, particularly emphasizing interpretations of heaven and the internalization of the divine, as suggested by quoting 'the kingdom of God is within you.' This theme of internal spirituality and its validation through religious scripture is recurrent in his works.

Why Jesus Needed to Hide the Shocking Truth of the Afterlife from Us Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 Jesus talks about heaven a lot, but he never tells you what it's actually like. It's like he's talking about it in code or something. So true when you think about it that he's talking about the kingdom of heaven is like this, it's like that. It's like the other thing. And yet you look at what he says it's like. He says it's like a fishing net. It's like yeast in dough. It's like a pearl that was hidden in a field. So why didn't he just tell us what it's like? It's because we weren't ready. We couldn't handle the truth about the
• 00:30 - 01:00 kingdom of heaven back then. However, it's all there. Like the parables are this little time capsule and when it's ready to get open, the truth about what heaven is and how to get there is inside. Hey, welcome to Sweden Life Podcast. Today's show, why Jesus needed to hide the shocking truth of the afterlife from us. Dr. Jonathan Rose is here. I'm Curtis Childs. Hey, Curtis. We want to address the what what's more important than understanding heaven. If
• 01:00 - 01:30 heaven is this that's where you're going forever or that's the goal. Jesus wants you to go to heaven. This is this is why wouldn't you give clear instructions? Why is he telling us stories about it? And what do those stories really mean? As you as you mentioned in the beginning, heaven is like a fishing net. Who? You don't want to be in a fishing net. Why is heaven like a fishing net? I don't particularly want to be in a field of weeds, you know. I Yeah, that's right. So, what's it mean? And and um
• 01:30 - 02:00 the mystery of the the symbolic language of Jesus and really the symbolic language of the Bible. And the way Swedenborg opens his book, Heaven and Hell, All About Heaven, is that he's he's just says that this is so important. It's really important that we have an understanding of where we're going. He uses an analogy at one point that if you went to a foreign country certainly back in in the 18th
• 02:00 - 02:30 century when he was alive when you went to a different kingdom you had to understand who was in charge and what the rules were there. He says it's so important. You got to understand about heaven and and who's running heaven. You know that's crucial. Even though that's so important we couldn't back when Jesus was here. People weren't ready for that. And this this is not just me making that up. This is directly in the text. Let me read you a couple of quotes. And you're talking about the
• 02:30 - 03:00 biblical not Swedenborg's text, the biblical text. I'm talking about the I'm just talking about the New Testament. It says, "If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? Also, I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables and without a parable he did not speak to them. And then these things I have spoken to you in figurative language but the time is
• 03:00 - 03:30 coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language but I will tell you plainly about the father. And if memory serves and I think in that last one I forget but there's somewhere where he says something like that and the disciples say okay now you're now you're telling us straight. you know, even when he said, "I just said I'm speaking to you in figurative language," you know, later we'll get to the rest of the story. Okay? So, the uh
• 03:30 - 04:00 dramatic assertion of this program today is that the plain language about the father, the heavenly things, everything that's alluded to there is there in the parables in the Bible that Jesus gave, but it's in the spiritual meaning. Oh, so like when he says, "I have more to say to you," it's already in there. Yes. But it's it's hidden. There's one of those little, you know, the drawers that you have in and you know, the chest of
• 04:00 - 04:30 drawers has a secret drawer in there. That's right. Like you open up Oh, but there's another one that pulls out of there. You got a you got a something that little light that shines that can see invisible ink or you put lemon juice on it or something. It's the equivalent of that. And I think would this be off base to say that Swedenborg would say that you what he got from Jesus Christ was clear vision of these internal stories and that that Swedenborg represents the plain teaching
• 04:30 - 05:00 about the father. It seems like he was part of this later I'm going to tell you, you know, I mean that that's the way I I hold it. So let's let's get into the parables and see see what they mean and see what he why is heaven like all these things. So I mean that that was the mission that Jesus Swedenborg said Jesus appeared to me and told me guess what everything I wanted to say to people it's already in the things that I
• 05:00 - 05:30 said you just have to have the Rosetta Stone. You got to have the key. Like you have to be able to understand the language I was speaking them in. or or everybody knows when you have a parable or a metaphor something stands for something else right the and this is this is what you don't know is what the what is like what what's the thing what's the what and what kind of parable are you talking in so let's start with an easy one which is not really a parable at all this is from Luke it's and the idea is the kingdom of heaven is
• 05:30 - 06:00 inside of you kingdom of heaven is inside of you even though it's called the kingdom of heaven which you think of a kingdom is a land where there's boundaries and over there's the castle where the monarch is. This is not that kind of king. There's probably border guards or something and you go in there and this this kingdom is inside you. So in Luke it says God's kingdom does not come in an observable way. Oh nor will they say look here or look there because look God's kingdom is within you. A lot of people are thinking he's going to
• 06:00 - 06:30 come in observable way come again. Second coming. Yeah. But he says, "No, not going to be like that." This is from Swedenborg's heaven and hell. It needs to be quite clear that it is the inner nature of angels that determine which heaven they are in. The more deeper level, the more the deeper levels have been opened, the more inward the heaven they are in. The deeper levels are opened by our acceptance of divine good and divine true gifts. I'll pause there
• 06:30 - 07:00 for a second. What? So somebody who's not familiar with Swedenborg and his description of heaven, meaning he claimed to have had his spiritual eyes opened could go and see the actual heaven heaven like the state of life after death. Uh what what's that in a nutshell? What's he talking about here? What's so interesting that he's adding in a sense to what Jesus says in a good way I think where Jesus says the kingdom
• 07:00 - 07:30 of heaven is within you and Swedenborg's explaining it is your inside and there are three different kinds you can have that still qualify as heaven you can have a level one or a level two or a level three so to you know he doesn't use that language but but uh and that has to do with to my mind whether you're you're just obeying the rules kind of thing would be that that lowest level. Yeah. Like you know what's right and you
• 07:30 - 08:00 do it and you don't want to wrap your head around it too, you know, don't don't get too all tangled up in yourself about just do it. Just do it. That's a sort of a just do it. That's a layer of heaven meaning that that kind of life. So if the kingdom of heaven is within you, the stuff that's within you is your thoughts and your feelings. Yeah. So if you have thoughts and your feelings that lead to actions, that's you're doing good because you're told to do good, you're not doing bad. That's a life of heaven. That's the kingdom of heaven is within you. And that when you're in the
• 08:00 - 08:30 afterlife means you are in a certain place in heaven because of that kind of life that's in you because it just reflects what's in inside you. And if you go to the next level, it's really more about your your thoughts and your understanding. Um, uh, there there's a there's a sort of a thought process that they use to arrive at what should be okay. Well, it's sort of a kingdom of laws like there are rules about how we treat the neighbor and and so on and and so it's and
• 08:30 - 09:00 there's a lot of kind of philosophy I think at that level that kind of thing. And then the highest level is love. It's all about love and they don't uh have debating groups or whatever. They they they perceive what they should do and they do it and they just love doing it. And so it's interesting to think about these different levels of heaven, but they're all about what's inside you and where you go is based on what's within
• 09:00 - 09:30 you. So the Lord said that very succinctly when he said it's within you. Uh but Swedenborg was able to expand from his travels around that that realm. Well, that would be the the same third heaven Paul said he was kind into. Yeah, that's it. It it is biblical. And Swedenborg says that a lot of stuff in the Bible is about those actually about those different levels of of heaven. Again, it's just written in code. Oh, yeah. Well, if we're going to go there, then let's go there. Isn't it Isn't it
• 09:30 - 10:00 true that there's this great mystery of you've got the Bible and Jesus is in there at the end, you know, and he's teaching all this stuff and he references the scriptures and says, "Look, this is this is all important. I'm in those scriptures." But a lot of the Bible, what does it have to do with anything today? Let's talk about the tabernacle. There's there's endless chapters about the construction of the tabernacle. It's a lot. And and in the tabernacle, there's like an outer court courtyard, then there's an inner thing, then there's the holy of holies. That is talking about the structure of the
• 10:00 - 10:30 kingdom of heaven which is the same thing as the structure of a the mind of a person which you can have your outer courtyard opened up to God which is what you described as the first level inner and then the holy of holies and if you get all the way open then that's this third heaven state and it sort of helps explain why there are chapters of God telling him this is how you should build it and then chapters s of that's exactly how he built it. Point for point. Yeah.
• 10:30 - 11:00 All the all the little details, all the the the furniture that was in there, everything about it. Swedenborg goes on, we may therefore conclude that the state of our inner natures is what constitutes heaven and that heaven is within each one of us and not outside us. This is what the Lord teaches in saying the kingdom of God does not arrive when we are looking for it. nor do they say here it is or there it is behold you have the kingdom of God within you. So yes I and
• 11:00 - 11:30 so he he quotes that thing that we just quoted. I will say many people don't like the Swedenborg thing because they say look he's gone outside the Bible. He's added to the Bible. He's got this whole personal travel thing. And doesn't the Bible itself say don't add or these these diseases will be added to you? don't subtract or things that are good will be subtracted from you. That he's not really biblical. And I'm not going
• 11:30 - 12:00 to say I can tell you you have to believe that he is biblical. I'm saying he felt very much like he was biblical and that everything he's reporting is simply an extension of that. That's why this is so common in his writings where he'll go and say something like there's these deeper levels of heaven and then say, "Look, you can see here in the Bible that this is how it is." This is why Jesus says the kingdom of God is within you. That's everywhere in his works. To him, it wasn't any sort of departure that he he
• 12:00 - 12:30 no his whole like the his book secrets of heaven which is his longest book is all just going through here's what the Bible says. That's what it means for the spiritual world. That's what it means for how you should live your life. To him he he cites and quotes the Bible more times per page in his works than probably your Thomas Aquinuses or anybody. It's amazing how much and amazing how often he will quote the same scriptures just a few pages later. Let's have that one again. And yeah, you know, he he Yes. It's it's just a profusion of
• 12:30 - 13:00 of quoting it. It's amazing. And Secrets of Heaven has whole volumes that are about one level of heaven uh that all the imagery from the Bible there is just talking about this second heaven. Yes. and and the kind of people who go there and it's amazing and and the more I get immersed in it and I've been immersed in it for a while but you get a clearer and clearer sense it's like a higher and higher resolution image of of what's
• 13:00 - 13:30 going on in the spiritual world from right out of the Bible right out of the Bible and you have to know how the spiritual world is what the afterlife is like how it works and what the nature of the human being is and how our minds and hearts work and all that once you understand that or in concert with you understanding that that's when you can grasp what these parables are and why he says it like he what they symbolize. What are you talking about? Wheat and the tears fishing net or Yeah. What are
• 13:30 - 14:00 you talking about? Let's using that lamp to light our way. Let's look at what's the living meaning inside. For example, the story of wheat and the tears, which is I think the the primary point is that heaven is not static. This is an on grow ongoing process that goes on. And let me guess, Matthew 25 16-31. I'm just guessing. It's actually pretty close. 13 24-30.
• 14:00 - 14:30 But you said it in the right tone of voice. Thank you. For someone. So this is all the way back in 13. I forgot. I thought it was when in those Matthew 25 ones. That is so humiliating. We'll go maybe we'll get there. Matthew 13. There's a lot of parables in 13. 20 who? 24 to 30. 24 to 30. Yes. There we go. Another parable he put forth to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who swed good seed in his field. But while men slept, his enemy came and swed tears, which I understand are weeds,
• 14:30 - 15:00 among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tears also appeared, so the servants of the owner came and said to him, "Sir, did you not sew good seed in your field? How then does it have tears?" He said to him, "An enemy has done this." The servant said to him, "Do you want us then to go and gather them up?" But he said, "No, lest while you gather up the tears, you also uproot the wheat with them. Let
• 15:00 - 15:30 both grow together until the harvest. And at the time of harvest, I'll say to the reapers, first gather together the tears and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn. So some people have said throughout history that this is Jesus is describing some people go to heaven, some people go to hell. But he doesn't say this is the the process before the king or the selection process for the kingdom of heaven is like this. He says the kingdom
• 15:30 - 16:00 of heaven is like that. The kingdom of heaven. And it's so strange, isn't it? Because as you say, it's a dynamic. You'd think of something that you would think was static. the kingdom of heaven and saying it's like this dynamic thing that has all this action going on and sorting and timing and and the Yeah. Because the truth of it is that the kingdom of heaven is this living state of being or it's it's a way
• 16:00 - 16:30 of life. The king that's it that's how you'd say it. That's how a normal human would say it. The kingdom of heaven is a way of life. that that God's kingdom is in like a certain kind of way to live. This is how Swedenborg describes it. Our intentions reveal themselves in our thoughts. For example, when we contemplate, will and intend acts of revenge, adultery, theft, or false witness, or entertain desires for those things.
• 16:30 - 17:00 This applies as well to acts of blasphemy against God, against the holy word, and against the church, and so on. If we keep our minds focused on these issues and explore whether we would do such things if no fear of the law or concern for our reputation stood in the way. And if after this exploration we decide that we do not will those things because they are sins then we are practicing a repentance that is true and
• 17:00 - 17:30 deep. So I guess it's kind of like you like you're looking inside yourself. Where's the wheat? Where's the tears? This is even more the case when we are feeling delight in those evils and are free to do them. But at that moment we resist and abstain. If we practice this over and over, then when our evils come back, we sense our delight in them as something unpleasant and in time we condemn them
• 17:30 - 18:00 like the desires themselves to hell. People who remove evils from their will through this type of repentance are like those who in time pulled up the weeds that had been sown by the devil in their field, allowing seeds planted by the Lord God the Savior to gain free ground and to sprout for the harvest. And he references this same place in Matthew. That's that's just that's great. And part of what I understand from this parable is that uh as is true when you
• 18:00 - 18:30 go out and look out at a field of of growing things Jesus says elsewhere by their fruits you'll know them. You can't tell the difference I assume between the one and the other. They it all just looks like kind of grass or green the plants coming up and and so you you can't tell the difference. And that's why you have to let it go because you'll think something was bad that was actually good
• 18:30 - 19:00 and and you'll pull it out. And it's better to keep all the good even at the risk of having the bad alongside it and then process it later when it comes to its maturity. And then you can really see, okay, I see you're actually a tear because I can see now because of the fruit. You you are not weak. Dude, have you ever felt the grief of pulling out something that was good from your garden? Yes. When you've when you've worked hard to try to
• 19:00 - 19:30 to try to let's say convert an area from one sort of plants to another. And you've got certain plants that you're saying these don't belong here. These are toxic to my dogs. These are not good for the wildlife. Whatever is your criteria for not wanting that. And so you're trying to get that out and you meticulously go and buy the right kind of plants and you plant them in and you're trying to you're after you encourage them, oh no, this one is is died back. What do I And you do it and then if you're weeding and you oh that was no, it's got a bulb on the end or
• 19:30 - 20:00 something. Yeah. It's like it's brutal. And it makes me think now this is part of why Swedenborg is so adamant that you can't spiritually judge someone else. Ah, you don't know. They you can barely tell what's going on in your own garden. Yes. Yeah. Now that's right. So to go into somebody else's garden and say I need you need to pull that out. You need to pull that out. It's too you don't know. And it's interesting that you
• 20:00 - 20:30 gather them all and they get gathered the weeds get gathered first. Yeah. And and burned and then you take the good stuff and and put it in the in the barn. And there's a lot to that, too. So the kingdom of heaven is inside a person who's doing this. So the even even angels in heaven which to Swedenborg an angel is just one of us who who does what Jesus says which is to live the life of the kingdom of heaven. You become a kingdom of heaven through this
• 20:30 - 21:00 process. The kingdom of heaven is the state in which you pluck out weeds and cast them away and you let good things grow. and this perpetually. That's what the kingdom of heaven is. And you do it wisely in a way that preserves everything that's good if if at all possible. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about another plant. Kingdom of heaven is like these plants. And this, by the way, Jesus comes down,
• 21:00 - 21:30 God of heaven and earth, decides to teach people. What does he use as his teaching tools? Plants. stuff that occurs in nature, animals, and things like having a farm or building a building or Yeah, they're they're very accessible things that to me you'll be familiar with, which is amazing. I think that this is indicates the truth of what Swedenborg says he observes in the
• 21:30 - 22:00 afterlife about correspondences. M so correspondences is the idea that everything around us in the physical world is like an image or a reflection of spiritual things. So much so that the the earliest people, so the way way back in history when people were still pretty much in the this Garden of Eden state where they were connected to God pretty directly, instead of the Bible before there was even the Bible, they could go
• 22:00 - 22:30 out and look at things like a field and how things grew and look at a seed and how it grew into a tree and pull the same kind of insights that we get. That's Swedenborg says that a number of times, doesn't he? That's that's true. He says that. And so Jesus comes and he says, "Well, this stuff already look, you're just not seeing it here, but this is already teaching you what the kingdom of heaven is like. You're you're walking through and around lessons like this every day. I I don't have to go to the
• 22:30 - 23:00 ends of the earth or to something really obscure." Yeah. It's right It's right here. It's all around us. So, let's go to another example of that. This is this is uh the the story of the mustard seed. Okay. Kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. It's not even what you'd think. Who would have ever Oh, it's like it's like what a a little mustard seed. This is from Okay. Can you do uh Matthew 13:31-32? I had a feeling we were still in
• 23:00 - 23:30 Matthew. We're just sticking around there. Yep. There we go. 31 and 32. Yep. Short one. Another parable he put forth to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and swed in his field, which indeed is the least of all the seeds, but when it's grown, it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches." Like, I get that the seed grows and becomes big, but
• 23:30 - 24:00 I don't understand what you mean about heaven and that, right? Okay. So what what is the mustard seed? The mustard seed is the good we have before developing a spiritual orientation. It is the smallest of all the seeds because we suppose that we do good on our own. Anything we do on our own is evil through and through. But since we are engaged in the process of being reborn,
• 24:00 - 24:30 we have a trace, the smallest possible trace of goodness. Later, as faith becomes more closely connected with love, it grows larger, a plant. When the connection is complete, it turns into a tree. Then the birds of the heavens, which are true ideas or the contents of the intellect, nest in its branches, which are the facts that we know. So what he and let's let's go back and try to understand what that means. But
• 24:30 - 25:00 fascinating that you think that the end of that where he says it grows into a tree and the birds come and branches. You think that's sort of throwaway. It's just a way of Jesus. Cute little picturesque ending to his story. He's just driving home. It's big. It's so big birds can go in and you know birds and branches and stuff. But according to Swedenborg, no, no, no. Those Jesus didn't put those details in for no reason. There's there's very particular meanings that's crucial to filling out why this is a picture of the process in that. So mustard seed is the good we
• 25:00 - 25:30 have before developing a spiritual orientation. That's really really interesting. Uh it reminds me of what Swedenborg says about the days of creation because early on there's just this little grass, you know, there's a few little plants that come up on day three if memory serves. And uh but then later there are all these animals and birds and and he talks about
• 25:30 - 26:00 that that at first that's again an image of the amount of good that we're doing at first is very very slight because we have all the wrong motivations and we don't really care or whatever. Yeah, we can tie that to um to Swedenborg's own journey as an example that he was prior to his uh meeting with Jesus and his sort of conversion into a
• 26:00 - 26:30 spiritual kind of guy, he was doing a lot of things that were useful to society. Mhm. So was you know designing things, inventing things, um studying things, publishing things, but he was doing all that for his own sake, for the sake of advancing his reputation, his position, enriching himself. So there was things that really helped people and did things, but he would say that's like the mustard seed. And that's where we the amount of actual
• 26:30 - 27:00 goodness is in there is the smallest possible trace you can have. That's a nonzero number because what what he or any of us are doing as we go through and do good things for selfish reasons is the good the ability to do that good stuff like the the ability to be smart in the first place to even execute on a plan or to move your hand to do something that's all comes from God. Yeah. That that God is the only source of that and God is love for the whole
• 27:00 - 27:30 human race. We take that that the power of life that we're given and use it to focus on ourselves to do good things for the sake of ourselves which is not it's not that there's no place for it but it's just this little seed. Yeah. Like the the process then where Swedenborg got his eyes open and realized I've been this has all been backwards. I'm supposed to love ser serve love the neighbor as myself. I'm supposed to love the god and what god wants which is to do good and
• 27:30 - 28:00 useful things for the whole human race. Then that starts to grow right as we are in the process of being reborn. Um then we start to actually have a faith which means an understanding and a love for the truth that gets connected to goodness and slowly it grows into when you're a tree a mustard tree. It's like you do things for the right reasons understanding the role God plays in it and what's really going on. That's the kingdom of heaven grow has grown in you.
• 28:00 - 28:30 Whereas before you can have you can have an absolutely great portfolio. You can have a lot of properties that you own, but there ain't no kingdom of heaven in you. And the birds are specifically spiritual understanding because they fly because he could have used a fish analogy, although fish don't climb trees, but you know, but in other words, the birds are chosen because it's spiritual. So now you're in a condition where you can actually host spiritual
• 28:30 - 29:00 understanding and it's actually very encouraging because somebody else could look at somebody in that condition that you described the before picture and say hopeless in it for himself you know just in it for the money or something and think but what the story is saying no there's a little something that God can work with that we can we can make that grow and and it'll take over the whole the whole thing. Yeah, it's small.
• 29:00 - 29:30 It's small now. And I think about Swedenborg as kind of receiving from the Lord the Lord's main love, which is a desire to save the whole human race, you know, to help everybody and lead them to heaven and and help them get over the things that are in their way kind of thing. And so Swedenborg starts to receive that and all of a sudden everything looks looks different when you look at it through that lens. like I don't care about my reputation. I'll sacrifice it in a minute for this goal
• 29:30 - 30:00 that I now see, says Swedenborg. You know, he does something that's terrible for his reputation, which is to publish these books. Publish these books. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it get, you know, some people he's a laughingstock and other people he's a hero. But it's like that's not why I'm doing it. I He's receiving from the Lord this this higher um purpose and that's bringing all these birds, you know, all all these wonderful insights into his mind that he never had before because now he's more aligned and
• 30:00 - 30:30 humble and kingdom of heaven. Hello audience. Uh you're getting a little break from Curtis and Jonathan to get to hear some Curtis and Jonathan uh talking to you about a very important thing which is that uh the Swedenborg Foundation that's the not for-profit organization. What do they do? They make this content possible. It really would not be possible without them. We are and they couldn't do what they're doing without you. So this is us. It's hard for us to say but we need your help. Would you consider uh there's a link in
• 30:30 - 31:00 the description. You can make a donation that goes right to supporting this program. the translations that Jonathan's team is working on. Many things that are helping Swedenborg, you know, there's not that much stuff plugging Swedenborg out there. We're trying to do our part. We can only do our part if if you are willing to pitch in and and make it happen. So, thanks. Thanks for considering. Yeah. Thank you so much. And as your reward is, we're going to send you back to Curtis and Jonathan. Okay. So, the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed because mustard seed's really small. That's not
• 31:00 - 31:30 small enough. Let's go smaller. Let let's talk about the kingdom of heaven as something microscopic. I'm talking about yeast. Jesus compares the kingdom of heaven to yeast. Do you want to read that up for us? Yes. Let's see here. This is even shorter, isn't it? Another parable he spoke to them. The kingdom of heaven is like leaven yeast which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal until it was all leavened. That's it. Okay.
• 31:30 - 32:00 This is the greatest teacher of all time. And he's saying, "Look, let me show you what the kingdom of heaven is like." That's not even like Asop's fable. Where is it? Is it a Taurus in the hair? Asop, where's Taurus? I think so. So, let's just say it is. Let's just say it is. I get it. Slow and steady wins the race. There's a moral
• 32:00 - 32:30 lesson. There's a moral. That's right. The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed in with three measures of flour until it was all leaven. What does it say? What does it say right after that? Oh, the next thing is all these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables and without a parable he did not speak to. It doesn't even there no explanation at all. That could mean any number of things. This is this is the proof. Almost the only thing you've got to go by is the yeast and then the three measures of flour and then there's a leavening
• 32:30 - 33:00 process that's going to leaven the whole mass. Do you think anybody went home that day and was like, you know what my favorite part was of what he said? The yeast. The yeast bit. Wasn't that awesome? So, I have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. I'm I'm laying out something that this is this is divine truth. It's coming out of the mouth of Jesus. That's the that's the theory is that Jesus is God. God only says things that are infinitely like truth of the truth. Yes. So what
• 33:00 - 33:30 he's speaking he's speaking from the deepest you know most powerful part of himself. So this is what that means or this is part of the meaning of that according to Swedenborg. This is from divine providence 25. The Lord provides for the union of what is good and true in others by purification. This happens in two ways. By temptations and by fermenting. Spiritual temptations are
• 33:30 - 34:00 simply battles against the evil and false things that breathe forth from hell and affect us. These battles purify us from things that are evil and false so that goodness is in us is united to truth and truth to goodness. Spiritual fermenting happens in many ways both in the heavens and on the earth. But people in our world do not know what these processes are or how they happen. There are things that are
• 34:00 - 34:30 both evil and false that are injected into communities the way agents of fermentation are injected into flour or grape juice. These serve to separate things that do not belong together and unite things that do so that the substance becomes pure and clear. These are the processes referred to by the Lord's words. The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and hid in three
• 34:30 - 35:00 measures of flour until it was all leavened. Yeah. So the yeast is actually something not positive in Swedenborg's view. I mean it's it's some kind of falsity, some sort of evil in those analogies that he gave there. And yet what ends up happening as a result of that being introduced is this process and he likens it also to to wine there, doesn't he? where you get something clear at at the end and that the dregs
• 35:00 - 35:30 fall out. I know nothing about o culture or whatever you call it, but you know, I didn't even know it was called that. So, I'm behind you, but but these these impurities fall out as a result of this process and you get this thing that's clear. It's really is amazing that you could introduce some foreign matter that would improve the product. I mean, that's an amazing thought, isn't it? And the kingdom of
• 35:30 - 36:00 heaven is something about the harnessing of this. He said a couple times in there, didn't he, that this is in in other people, like even if you're acting out and you're being horrendous, it can actually be a blessing to somebody else. It can ferment somebody else to where their their bread and their wine gets better as a result of what you did, so to speak. Well, again, this is here's what the kingdom of heaven is like, and it's describing an ongoing process of repentance. These are all processes, reformation, and regeneration. And if it
• 36:00 - 36:30 this has really come in sequence after the wheat and the tears. That's right. These are they've all been one after the other in the Bible. According to Swedenborg, you have these two two major ways in which we go from being bad to being good, where you get reborn into somebody who's like, you look around at the world, we're not all a bunch of angels. No, they're Yeah, we there's like not not obviously there's some obnoxiousness in the human race, you know? People people drive like
• 36:30 - 37:00 they're obnoxious like this this just is how people are. However, there's a plan to get you from that, you know, into being something absolutely great. Yep. Being absolutely great. Get that obnoxiousness out. How do you do that? There's two main ways it happens in one is called spiritual temptations and this is like the wheat and the tears in a way he talks about the process of of repentance there examining yourself and get getting
• 37:00 - 37:30 that's right the bad stuff out which can sometimes be precipitated or or instigated by you have these crises in your life where you confront some of the problems that you have or life starts to get hard and you start to loosen up on your egocentric position in the world. That's right. That that's sort of the acute version of it. And then there's the gradual sort of background version where Swedenborg talks about the certain things get introduced so that you can finally see this doesn't belong in me
• 37:30 - 38:00 and it works its way. You know, people back then as now would be be a lot of people would be familiar with the process of making bread and so on and whether it's underproved or overproved as you'd hear on any baking show or something, but the in that it would let that the yeast go through all through the the flour or the dough. There's something satisfying to me about that picture of like, no, it's still working
• 38:00 - 38:30 and it's going to work until it's got the the whole thing is now processed. So when you when you bake it, it's not raw dough or there's not some part that that that didn't rise. You know, the whole thing has been improved. Kingdom of heaven is like bread. When you get to the end, it's like of that process like you're making bread, which of course Jesus talks about being the bread of life. Yes. that that and and this bread is like been this very important part of the existence of the human race for a
• 38:30 - 39:00 long time. There's a symbol of like you get you go through this process, you have this stuff that's not really that edible. You add this yeast to it and in there you end up with heaven. Yeah. I don't know what it's like to sort of chew on chew on like wheat kernels or something. Well, we got some here. Let's let's try this out. And what's amazing to me is that you could think just as you could think as we've talked in previous shows about that the process of life is like a series of kind of
• 39:00 - 39:30 evolutionary mistakes or something where oh you have these teeth and then you lose the teeth and then you get new teeth or you you go through these awkward phases and so on as you're growing up and yet Jesus is going through all of those stages shows no this is the pattern this is the divine design this is how it's done. And even something like, okay, somebody discovered I don't know where it come from. I I I don't know. I didn't invent bread making. Uh I don't know where that came from, but it's been passed down to me. So you do this, you do that, then
• 39:30 - 40:00 you bake it, and you know, it turns out like this. And here Jesus is putting kind of a holy sheen on all that, isn't it? To say, "Oh, this is not just an accident that some Cro-Magnons stumbled onto. This is the order of how I make people into angels. Uh, and it's right there in your kitchen. The same thing you've been doing. Kingdom of heaven. Kingdom of heaven is all all these processes. The king, this
• 40:00 - 40:30 the kingdom of heaven is within you. And this is this is the the life you lead that creates that kingdom inside. It's not static. Yeah, it's not static. So, let's go to these these two paired descriptions. This is keep keep it going with Matthew. And he says these so fast in sequence back to back that you almost wonder like why is he is is this redundancy? But actually there's a there's a different meaning to each of
• 40:30 - 41:00 these. So, let's talk about the the and we're kind of changing changing tone here. It goes from this is how something grows as a process to you find something and you give up everything for that. So can you do Matthew 13:44 to 46? Okay. Again the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field which a man which a man found and hid and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field. Again, the
• 41:00 - 41:30 kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking beautiful pearls, who when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had and bought it. And that end of the story that two stories, two stories there. Boom. The kingdom of heaven, this is what Swedenborg says about it. The kingdom of heaven stands for the goodness and truth in us and consequently for heaven in us. The field stands for goodness and the
• 41:30 - 42:00 pearl for truth. Buying stands for acquiring and adopting them. Selling everything that one has for banishing what used to be one's own and consequently for banishing evil and falsity since these are one's own. So you sell everything you Wow. That's great because that really fits with what we were talking about with there was sort of Swedenborg version 1.0. Yeah. And he's a certain way. And
• 42:00 - 42:30 then you cash that whole thing in to buy this pearl of great price, which is this connection with the Lord that's happening and with heaven. It's like, okay, I'll I'll sell all of that for for this. This is this is really precious. Yeah. Buying and selling. So first you got to you find it, then you got to buy it, and then you got to sell things. So the buying stands for acquiring and adopting them. So the kingdom of heaven is like on the one hand goodness, the
• 42:30 - 43:00 other hand truth. You do the same thing with both. You find certain goodness and you've got this whole field which is like you look at the field of your mind and there's all these different things in it that you there's all these different things you can enjoy in life that's set out in front of you. Almost anything you any path you go down, you're going to find something you like about it. You constantly get these sort of um intreaties for like come over here, enjoy this with us, enjoy this with us, enjoy this with us. Among those there is enjoying good things which would mean things that ultimately
• 43:00 - 43:30 contribute to lasting uh good life for you for the others that you touch building the happiness that can last forever. So you have those things buying that is like I'm going to act on those things. That's what acquiring it is because just having something pop through your head or having the urge to do something it's not you didn't buy it. It's like you're looking you're looking in the store window. Oh, that thing is cool there. There's no real risk yet or you haven't but you haven't paid anything. But to buy is I'm gonna go
• 43:30 - 44:00 spend my time and my energy and my life on this thing. So you go buy the treasure in the field means I the these the parts of my life that I know that I are good that I can tell are good or to best of my understanding I'm going and buying that. Same thing with the pearl. It's like there's all these different ideas. There's all these different interpretations of life. There's all these different concepts. There's these schools of thought. There's these kind of people you can get taught by. If you find the actual truth, I'm going to buy
• 44:00 - 44:30 that. Meaning, that's what I'm going to that's what I'm going to act on in my life. That's what I'm going to think on the basis of. That's what I'm going to look to. So, you buy those and then selling what you had is all the old stuff that used to run your life, all the old ways of thinking, all the old justifications you had. I'm selling those pass on because it's not like in this story it says the guy found the field he was so happy he bought that field and now he had six fields.
• 44:30 - 45:00 Now he had six fields or the pearl merchant put took that pearl and put it in his chest with his other pearls and that was the biggest pearl that he had. He sells everything else because that pearl or that treasure in the field is worth more than all that combined. That's what heaven is like. I'm giving up what's not heaven because heaven is is worth it. Or that's the process by which you become a citizen of the kingdom of heaven. And one little bit of this, I mean it maybe more than a little
• 45:00 - 45:30 bit of it, but it seems to me that when Swedenborg talks about pearls, the thing about a pearl is that you can't if you try to cut it, say, "Let's divide it. We'll we'll split we'll we'll we'll split our pearl." Yeah. 5050. do you 50/50 that seems fair whole thing turns to powder it's there's a oneness that's essential about it and ultimately what Swedenborg talks about with this is the idea that God is one like an idea of unity in the Lord unity in the universe
• 45:30 - 46:00 in in everything one love what about the one heart that's great that's wonderful it's been a while since it's an insult it's an insult to the memory of Bob Marley. So finding that pearl is like you've got this whole field of Yeah. Okay. I'm doing this for so and so and I'm trying to do that and I'm working on this in my life and then you whoa what is this? Oh
• 46:00 - 46:30 this is an understanding. This is a truth. This is an understanding of how it's all one. How God is in this whole field. These God is in everybody that I'm interacting with. and and uh so it's like okay I'm cashing in. It's not just sort of something that I was doing because I couldn't do the thing that I dreamed of doing when I was a teenager. Yeah. You know, got to make a living, got to pay off my debts and all that. So, I'll just do it. Okay. And then, oh
• 46:30 - 47:00 wait, no. There's something really precious in this. Sell all that and all in on this. Wouldn't there straight and narrow straight and narrow path? There's something about straight and narrow in there. That's right. That there's Yeah. There's life is constantly wide open. There's so many paths you can go on. Yeah. But there's one there's one which is like do do the right thing. Do it all the time which again there's that's lyrics to another song. Do do that cultivate that
• 47:00 - 47:30 and then everything else opens up. So there's this quote that is from the word that Swedenborg uses and the title page or some page right before uh the beginning of secrets of heaven. The translation I think that you guys have in your edition is seek first God's kingdom and its justice and you will gain all. That's right. Which is I'm very impressed. There's also like
• 47:30 - 48:00 the New King James, I think, is seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you. That's right. That's I love that. And and what it's saying is no, it's the life of heaven is not a restricted, sad, mournful, constricted life, right? It it is something that it's just no go do this now and everything else opens for you because what if you can get this right
• 48:00 - 48:30 that that you sell all you have for the kingdom of heaven then everything else that you ever wanted in life happiness fulfillment yeah uh relationships the afterlife heaven that Swedenborg described is full of you got all the friends that you could ever want you got your soulmate who you love everything's there all these things are added to you. Uh but but you can only get them added if you if you love uh if you're good, if you love people. Um you know, this is so
• 48:30 - 49:00 great because it reminds me of the story of Solomon where Solomon's asked what what would you like? Almost like the genie in the lamp asking you, you know, what what what would your wish be? Yeah. And when Solomn asked for for a wise heart, if memory serves. Yeah. uh he gets all the other things that were on the list but he chose well you know do do you want riches do you want power uh and he says I I I want a wise and
• 49:00 - 49:30 loving heart and they okay you will also be phenomenally rich and phenomenally you know you you get it but but there's so it's a priority I I feel that in this story very much that that pearl is like that isn't it and the treasure hidden in the field. We're not trying to say that you okay, you do this, you get you get king of heaven and then you're going to your bank account is going to get big and whatever else you want is that's that's not what the riches of heaven are. It
• 49:30 - 50:00 who knows what happens in your life. This physical life is quite short and it'll be there and it'll be gone in the act. Money in this world can be a blessing or a curse depending on where your inner self is focused or what that means to you. That's right. However, there is one thing you are guaranteed with the kingdom of heaven. Um, which is spiritual riches, which is another way of saying happiness. Swedenborg, there's a quote from Swedenborg where he says, "Who is the greatest except the one who is
• 50:00 - 50:30 happiest? Is that not what the rich seek in riches and the powerful seek in power?" But what happened? You're suddenly like a I'm reading off the the wall behind you. No, you're not. Um, is that not what the rich seek rich? Yeah, it says exactly what he said. Yeah, that's right. Listen, go get what you want and see if the hell in your mind can turn it against you. Go get
• 50:30 - 51:00 everything you've been dreaming of and how how many days will it feel good for? And how many days until well now this thing or what about this thing or this thing or and now this thing so else somebody else has that thing has this thing right um it doesn't matter where you are what your station in life unless you have the the kingdom of heaven is the only guaranteed happiness and when you go to actual heaven you can have very opulent surroundings there can be
• 51:00 - 51:30 beautiful palaces there that people live in all that stuff does occur that's but only as a reflection of the kingdom of heaven. So if you have a mind that is full of valuable things and what's valuable that would be things that anyone would know these are good and valuable things like if you have a a care for and a love of little children and you want to make sure that they're safe and they're happy and you would do anything to protect them. Is that is that valuable or not val is that good? Is that a pure gem or not? That is it's
• 51:30 - 52:00 a gem. if if you have a devotion to what's fair and what's right. So much so that even if you knew you could gain an advantage uh that you could steal something or do but you're like no that's not right like I wouldn't want someone to do that to me that's going to destroy society that have integrity and you put and you put that on display in front of an arena of people who are watching a movie or something where you do that or is that would not everyone agree that's a precious and rare thing
• 52:00 - 52:30 in that person? Yeah, those are the kinds of things that are of the kingdom of heaven. And if you've got a mind that's full of that, is that or is that not uh spiritual riches? Yeah. The difference between the afterlife and here according to Swedenborg is that the afterlife is where actually valuable things are are seen as valuable. Whereas here you can have somebody who is a terrible person. mind is full of uh full of grungy despicable things and yet they
• 52:30 - 53:00 achieve great wealth and huge wealth rolling in. Yeah, that's right. And and even some people are like that's great. We we love that you are like that. That's entertaining and fun. Here things that are not valuable are often valued. Yes. Whereas in the afterlife and and things that are spiritually valuable are way down on the list of priorities. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Two other little quips Swedenborg gives about these parables. He says, "The beautiful pearl is
• 53:00 - 53:30 neighborly love or the goodness required by faith." And then in Apocalypse Revealed, the pearl here symbolizes a concept of the Lord. That's what you were getting there. That was what? Yeah. But that's that's so interesting. And those two things, the neighbor and the Lord have a lot to do with each other. I would say it's not that that the parables that Jesus gives are abundant in information that there is a ton in them. It's not as
• 53:30 - 54:00 simple as you can boil it down to Swedenborg will say well one for one this is what that means. Evidence for that is even here he gives not not different contradictory definitions but sort of round it out. It means this and it means this and it means that. Yeah, there's a ton of meaning in each of these layers and layer. There's an example of layers of meaning, isn't it? The pearl here uh so so initially he says uh the pearl is truth. That's what he says in the
• 54:00 - 54:30 first explanation. Then he'll say the pearl the beautiful pearl is neighborly love or the goodness required by faith. So that's like the truth in action. If you have exactly the truth about what God is asking you to do and you act on it and okay whatever love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, don't do what's evil, then that leads to this kind of love. So that's where the pearl gets you. But then the pearl here symbolizes a concept of the Lord and what it's hard to acquire a concept of the Lord, isn't it? Yeah.
• 54:30 - 55:00 It's hard to love the Lord. What do you love God? I don't even I've never seen God. I I hear some things about God. seems kind of weird. Like people who talk about God, are they do they even know what they're Look at these two weirdos on YouTube. They're not the kind of people that I really think are cool to have like a real concept of the Lord where you believe that the Lord is good. And you can't just believe that because people tell you that. But if you actually through your learning and
• 55:00 - 55:30 reflection and through the way that life is and your moments of insight, however your whatever your winding path is to get there, will you have an emotional appreciation for this? I I love God. That is so great. And that is so honorable and noble. That's like sell everything and grab on to that because once you have that the hard work of spirituality becomes easy to attribute things to God rather than to your own ego to say no I want I want whatever I do here you know
• 55:30 - 56:00 people it'll be on people's lips like I give the credit to God if you actually really think of like have a living picture of God and say yeah no I I just want him to do what he's doing because I know that he's because I know that he wants he's actually been in the trenches with everybody. He wants everybody to live well. He's fair. He's all these things. Then of course, of course, I'll give credit to God for that. Of course, if God tells me to do something, no, I'm doing that. That's like sell it for that pearl because that's going to lead you
• 56:00 - 56:30 to happiness. Because I'll say something about the kingdom of heaven. When you get any bit of the kingdom of heaven you get in your mind, hell in your mind, which is everything negative and destructive and miserable, misery making in your consciousness, hell doesn't know what to do with the kingdom of God. Hell can absolutely feed on your own self-image and your uh autonomous picture of it's me against the world. Hell loves that. That's like feeding frenzy. You try to
• 56:30 - 57:00 say, "Well, no, I'm good at this or this happened to me." that are just like they'll tear you up. But the kingdom of God, which is like I love God and I want to they just it's very hard for them to to make you unhappy when that's your guiding light. And it really strikes me in what you're saying that I've never quite thought about it this way, but you can see from Sweden's journal of dreams and his journal spiritual experiences and other things. He was allin with with Jesus. I mean he that he loved the Lord you know you
• 57:00 - 57:30 can see it he developed this love for the Lord a after seeing him and then seeing who he is seeing who he is in scripture seeing who he is in the world and that's where he get you sort of like well how do you understand how was Swedenborg able to say where the Stockholm fire was going on how how was he able to find people's lost you know receipt or a book in the attic that they forgot they had or something like that or that the barn was on fire or
• 57:30 - 58:00 something like that. It's because he was with the Lord. It's all those questions have the same answer. It's because he was he was tight with the Lord. All that came from that just like he says you say that was a motto on his books because that's that's who he had become. And that's cool to think of it that way. that that's where all of this it's it's a very complex thing that comes from a very simple formula at the heart of
• 58:00 - 58:30 it and that's that's the state in which God wants us to be that the universe the the divine providence has for its purpose a heaven from the human race. So, it's a state in which God wants us all to be. And that's exactly why he tells you all this stuff about the kingdom of heaven because he's trying to like this is how you get there. It's actually more important for me to tell you how you get there than than what the end result is. What it is or what the landscape is like or we we
• 58:30 - 59:00 can get to that later, but yeah, how you get there. That's true. That's good. All right, let's finish our tour to force through Matthew. What is to force? What What is that? What is that about? Do you know it's means like you're going through something good? It's a force related tour. I think is that the root of that? I'm saying there's a lot of great parables in a row here. This is the last one we're going to cover. This is Matthew 13:47 and
• 59:00 - 59:30 48. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a drag net that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, which when it was full, they drew to shore. and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels but threw the bad away. I love the perspective, the king of heaven is within you focused perspective that Swedenborg brings to this or just or
• 59:30 - 60:00 just that he reinforces because let me just look back. We we started in the beginning of this Matthew uh does okay we never mind in the beginning of this episode in Luke it said kingdom of heaven is within you. Oh yes. Right. Does he say that? Does he say that in Matthew? right like at the beginning of these parables. Does he have any a parallel passage or an analogous something to that? Not that I know of. I think that's a Luke thing. But if he doesn't, then I'll just
• 60:00 - 60:30 withdraw. He just launches right in. Spoke many things to them in parables saying, "Behold, a ser went out to sew." Well, you know, we can edit this out or leave it in. who probably they'll probably end up leaving it in. But I'm just trying to say if the kingdom of heaven is within you then instead of looking at all these parables as Jesus is these are all just threats. Basically he's saying look the the drag net good people come in the bad people get thrown out. You better be good. The
• 60:30 - 61:00 weed and the tears the good people come in the bad people get thrown out. You better be good. That's the e that's the external view. So this is each fish is a person versus yes which and by the way you can't apply that interpretation to the the measure of leaven in I mean the yeast inside the three scoops of who's the bad who's the good would it be the unleavenedness that gets thrown out or something. Yeah. It doesn't quite work. And the pearl of
• 61:00 - 61:30 great price. It doesn't it's selling all that he has that again that there's no there's not the same dichotomy there. Right. When you look inside, and this is what we're about to find here, when it's talking about the kingdom of heaven is you. This is what you do. You have to look in yourself. And some of these things that are growing in you are the kingdom of heaven. Some of them are not. That is a that's a message that needs to that is much more helpful and much more
• 61:30 - 62:00 bearing of repetition in these different forms because it's informing you the different ways to do it. You know, that's way that's way more satisfying to me than just there's good and bad people. If you're bad, you're not going to make it into heaven. Yeah. More. But it's more that you want to be in the kingdom of heaven. Who doesn't want to be in heaven? Who doesn't want to be in happiness? Here's what you got to do. Anybody. Here's what you got to do to get there. And it seems as though I'm suddenly seeing in a way that hadn't before that in both the uh wheat and the
• 62:00 - 62:30 tears, there's great concern not to uproot any of the wheat. We're going to keep 100% of the wheat by waiting till the end to weed out the stuff that doesn't belong. And the drag net is the same way, isn't it? Because you're catching all these fish. Some of them you don't want, but so as not to miss a single fish that would be good or that would be useful, grab them all. Get a big net and just haul it across and catch all the
• 62:30 - 63:00 fish and then do a sort. But both of those seem to show a concern for saving every good thing. anything good. We're going to save even at the expense of having all this other stuff in there as well. But we can sort that out. Don't worry about it. We can sort that out. Okay. This is what Swedenborg says about the internal meaning of the king of heaven is like pulling fish out of the sea. The reason creatures of the sea fish symbolize facts is that the sea symbolizes our
• 63:00 - 63:30 earthly self. The fish in the sea therefore symbolize facts themselves in our earthly self. I think I'll read the next one too and then we can Good. Good. Yes, please do. I wanted to say pontificate about it, but I don't know if that's what we're really going to do. Fish stand for people. This is great because I just feel like all the words that are on the edge of my vocabulary that I would use
• 63:30 - 64:00 those sometimes and I think I know what they mean. I feel like I'm going to put them to the test here. Like Jonathan probably knows whether I'm making a faux paw as good or not. Fish stand for people concerned with general truths and caught up in faith divorced from charity. In contrast, fish stand for people concerned with general truths and governed by a faith conjoined with charity. So these are the two
• 64:00 - 64:30 different kinds of fish. You got the people. So he gives these two different pictures. One is there's the sea is your mind. Yes. Your earthly mind. And from the different fish are the different facts or ideas. And the kingdom of heaven is like right you're sorting through those ideas. All those ideas you have. Some of those support your life into the kingdom of heaven. Some of those do not. Some of the ideas that you have do not. Since you're little, you're
• 64:30 - 65:00 gathering all this knowledge. Some of it's accurate, some of it's inaccurate, but you've got it all in there. Yeah. So, this this sorting process that happens. Let's try to get let's try to pull out an example of what that would be like. What's what's the sorting of the fish that needs to happen to enter into the kingdom of heaven? because there's certain I mean you can have you can have uh assessments of things like oh my sister isn't very good at this right you
• 65:00 - 65:30 can have that about everyone that you interact with here's here's their flaws Curtis talks with his hands too much there you have intel about everybody this is like there's there's plenty let's not go into specifics here about me there's plenty of stuff you have that's not useful for the kingdom of heaven like that gets in your way of loving your neighbor as yourself. Is that true? Yeah. Absolutely true. And
• 65:30 - 66:00 when you think about that third state as some people may know who are listening to the broadcast that Swedenborg describes after you die you go through these two main states back and forth and back and forth between a state that's a lot like your life now and then a state where the what lies within you is opened up and you go back and forth and you sort of figure out who you are. But then there's a third state for people who are heading to heaven which is an educational state. And so in that educational state, would you not be
• 66:00 - 66:30 throwing out some fish, you know, these concepts that you have are good. This this is good. This concept that you have, it might be a concept, you know, a negative concept of yourself or something like that. Or it might be some concept of like, yeah, you know, you know, you got to scramble and you know, you have to do whatever. Even if you hurt people along the way, it's okay because you or something. And no,
• 66:30 - 67:00 we need to throw that fish out. It's a focusing of going from I'm just gathering all the fish like whatever seems true to there's a game plan here. There's a strategic uh there's a strategic plan that we're following in particular to get where we're going. And you see I think I think business or work is a great example of this that yeah you can have a you know a group of people that's like a company and well let's just do anything that works we got to find if you stay focused
• 67:00 - 67:30 on what's going to get you to a particular place then it's going to go and for individual if you're if you're a certain kind of worker uh you can like in the beginning it's like any task I can do but if you focus and say look I'm not I'm never going to be strong in this instead I need to focus on this because this is going to lead me toward the goal, even though that's enticing to, I don't know, make this merger or enter that product line, that's not what we're doing because that that's like what it is with the kingdom of heaven is it's a it's a bit of a culling or a sorting in
• 67:30 - 68:00 your mind, which is what am I going to give my attention to? There's a limited amount of mental space and resources I have. I'm pairing it down to the things that are going to lead me in the direction of heaven so that I can make some progress rather than just kind of staying been pulled in all these different directions. Yes, that's right. And so Swedenborg talks a lot about how love will organize the thoughts in our minds and bring certain things into the center and then other things just sort
• 68:00 - 68:30 of kind of lie down at the sides. Yeah. I always picture grass or bull rushes or or something that's just uh yeah they're they're concepts that you gained but they they don't have life in them in the same way anymore because you realize that this is what's important this is what's organizing and I think again about Swedenborg with he had hoovered up just about all the information the world had to offer at that time and invented some more that didn't exist before and
• 68:30 - 69:00 yet it all gets reorted you when the Lord is in charge, it it all gets res resorted and and he throws out some of the concepts that were no good. And I remember your video about um you are the lungs, right? You breathe out you breathe out concepts that no longer fit and you see pictures of how good smoking is for you or something. You're breathing that out and that the other stuff the body sends out that's the most respectable to talk
• 69:00 - 69:30 about, right? But there are other ways in which the body is constantly expelling waste. Yeah. Even though these things are in there, I can't digest this. This is going out. Right. Yeah, that's right. And it makes me think of uh the story in the Bible. I was just reading in Swedenborg's journal of spiritual experiences how the concepts in the Bible he says like the stories, the things like we're pouring over here are are in some ways very broad. Like they are containers for spiritual truth. So a great many people can learn let's
• 69:30 - 70:00 say these parables and you think of them like a cup think of them like a cup that's this is the parable is the glass part of it and on its own like you can't again so you so the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that that in itself you can't ingest that it doesn't really give you any picture of anything that but it can hold within it living concepts so if that gives you the idea of oh yeah that was just like when I was
• 70:00 - 70:30 you used to just hear this one little thing about you know be be honest and fair and something and now that's grown up and that's how I run my whole life and that's so it comes alive for you so I was thinking of that in regard to we're talking here about certain facts stay certain facts go well in the in way back in Genesis when Noah gets drunk in his tent yes and so his sons hold up a cloak and They walk backwards, cover him
• 70:30 - 71:00 up. So, they're not even looking. It's Is it true or not true that he's got a problem? It's true. It's true. But they're But they're saying th that those fish I'm throwing back in the ocean because that's not going to lead me help him. How does that help anybody else? What's the utility of it? And it makes me think of Swedenborg when he goes and encounters these angels in the afterlife and he has a couple of instances where he says like angels really almost ignore
• 71:00 - 71:30 your faults. Yes, that's right. It's not that there isn't protections in heaven. Like if you have ill intent, good luck making it into heaven. As soon as you get in there, you can't breathe. You're writhing. you can't because the the inside of your life doesn't fit with that. There are places in heaven where there are guards and gates that yes, there is that. However, in that situation where you're not a threat to anyone, angels are like, I don't, you know what? I'm not interested at all in your flaws. I don't really care about
• 71:30 - 72:00 that. I'm interested in finding the good because that's what we're going to amplify. That's kind of that's kind of the sort of um selectiveness in a positive sense, I think, that we're talking about here. And it's striking me that the book of revelation uh gives this idea of the throne room of heaven and people fall down and they praise God and they're, you know, they're they're playing harps and so on. And I think people have developed a static idea of heaven from those images.
• 72:00 - 72:30 That's not what those images mean either. They have a beautiful meaning, but but people developed a static idea of heaven. And yet if they really understood these parables or even took Jesus at face value, every one of these stories is developmental. It's not static. Yes, it's not static. which it's a whole resort sorting and re oh this thing that was tiny has become huge and and then you have an image in the mustard seed with the the birds come but
• 72:30 - 73:00 in the drag net it's fish you know which are different kinds of truths and uh and every single story is dynamic or from that day forward Jesus began to say repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand that's like the summary of his whole message is repent which is like do this particular thing you know But let's be let's be good. Let's find a way. Let's put in the work to be good. And that's that's the kingdom of heaven. Stop being stop being bad. You know, the ten commandments are mostly phrased
• 73:00 - 73:30 negatively, aren't they? Just like don't hurt people, don't steal, don't that's that's love itself. If I if I know that I have a temper problem and that is gonna negatively affect my family, how do you express love more than saying I'm gonna make try to get it so that thing doesn't come out. Yeah. I'm going to work hard at that. I'm going to notice it. I'm going to go any shame I have around. I'm going to do all that stuff. Yeah. So that that what what is what is more of love than that? Yeah. There's
• 73:30 - 74:00 like time and attention and focus, but you know Yeah. It's really the best thing. Yeah. No, no amount of birthday cards or whatever will make up for explosive, you know, right? If that's an ongoing problem and you're not on top of it, everybody in the human race has got the opportunity to do their part for the human race. All you got to do is let's look at what where is hell trying to get into the world through me. Yes, this is
• 74:00 - 74:30 where I'm the expert. This is where I have the inside scoop. Nobody has your domain as in my domain. And if it gets through me, then I'm gonna go and add to the world's problems and create those cycles of harm. Let me look here. I'm going to stop it from coming here. If everybody does that tomorrow, the problems in the world are over. That's all. That's what it is. That's what it is. Let's do that. Okay. Kingdom of
• 74:30 - 75:00 heaven. Let's switch from this process of regeneration into a couple of the qualities of the state of heaven. Okay. That Swedenborg I mean that Jesus talks about and then Swedenborg further explains. One thing is that there's room for all kinds of people. Ah this is uh can you do can you flip to John? I can. 142 in my father's house are many mansions. If it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for
• 75:00 - 75:30 you. A lot of different people and in particular you've got a place there. Here's two things that Swedenborg says about that about his you got the Bible and it Jesus says this thing then Swedenborg has his spiritual eyes opened starts traveling the afterlife much like you know anyone these days who's having their near-death experience going and looking at the actual instance of it and he says this is where this is how you see that played out there in the world of spirits and heaven the Lord draws
• 75:30 - 76:00 distinctions among all the genre and species of intellectual ual and valitional affairs. He divides them up and organizes them so perfectly that even the smallest has its own distinct identity. The distinct groupings in heaven are called communities. And the word they are called dwelling places. And in John 14:2, the Lord calls them places to live. The the mansions. That that's
• 76:00 - 76:30 uh that's amazing. And there's some place in there for you in particular. So just like I was saying a minute ago, we all have our hell is trying to get through us in a particular way into the world, but also heaven is trying to get through us in a particular way into the world. That's right. Heaven is just God coming through people. So there's a particular spot in the like divine output that wants to come into the world but is waiting for you to be the thing
• 76:30 - 77:00 that allows it through. Right. You're a pixel on that screen. That's right. You are you're one you're one pixel on that on the conveying a certain color or a certain part of the screen that nobody else has. And that is it not true that things get better with higher resolution? Yes. And when you think about the numbers that are going into heaven all the time and how it's increasing and increasing increasing, that resolution
• 77:00 - 77:30 is crazy good. We're talking about the 4K heaven in the 4K heaven. That's right. The 8K heaven. It's all on the way. That's right. This is from Secrets of Heaven 4225. Those who are part of the universal human breathe freely when they are exercising a loving goodness. But they are still divided up according to the nature and amount of that goodness. That is the reason there are so many heavens which the word refers to
• 77:30 - 78:00 as mansions. John 14:2. The individuals there are each in their elements when they are in their heaven and have an inflow from heaven as a whole. Everyone there is a focal point for inflow from all others and is therefore in perfect balance. This balance reflects the miraculous form of heaven produced by the Lord alone. So it comes in unending variety. So if you take Swedenborg at his word and I I do that he met the Lord and the
• 78:00 - 78:30 Lord inspired him and showed his thing showed him things about what was in scripture. Well, I mean we're kind of putting it all out here in the podcast. Like why why you make a podcast about why you make a podcast about that if you're not just please like so many people please stop doing that people might learn that we know you don't do that can you stop that one word mansions turns into all that that he just said you know it does give me that sense of oh yeah the Lord had a lot more
• 78:30 - 79:00 to say about this but he just said mansions whatever that mean you There's many mansions. That's all I'm telling you right now. There's there's many of them. And then Swedenborg say, "Oh, each one's like the center for the others and how they communicate and what what the different loves are, how there's different levels and they're all in the human forms." There's a lot of additional information that we're getting here that we didn't that might all be contained. I it is in that word mansions, but it wasn't all sort of clear as a bell on the on the surface of
• 79:00 - 79:30 the text. Spiritual things are of a different quality than earthly things. Oh, they they have sort of an everlastingness about them that we don't necessarily have here. Can you look up Matthew 6 19-21? Okay. Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do
• 79:30 - 80:00 not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be. Also, what this is means is if you have a lot of money, don't put it on earth. Find a way to get it into heaven and then your money is there. There are mutual funds for that. You find a way like you can do a transfer and that's what you do. That's right. So, it must not just be the location of your treasure where your heart is should be heaven, but there's a diff must be a different kind of
• 80:00 - 80:30 treasure. he's talking about. Yes. Because the the word that's used in the epistles is incorruptible. You know, there's sort of this subarner world, as people say, where everything decays and rots and falls apart and and as you were saying, things are not even fair. You know, it it's one person gets a gargantuan amount, another person gets practically nothing, and they're just wonderful or whatever. And uh here you're talking
• 80:30 - 81:00 about someplace where the treasure lasts. It has a permanence and it's incorruptible. This is from divine providence 217. All members of communities in heaven were once people on earth. This means they keep the loves they had in this world. The difference being that now they are spiritual and that their actual eminence and wealth are spiritual in the spiritual kingdom
• 81:00 - 81:30 and heavenly in the heavenly kingdom. Because of all of this, the people who have the most eminence and wealth are the people who have the most love and wisdom. This shows us what spiritual eminence and wealth are like. They are attributes of the task and not of the individual. What an interesting thing to say. So in and we made this point earlier in the show which is
• 81:30 - 82:00 what's what's valuable in a world that is based on what you think and what you feel which is what the spiritual world is. Yes. It's the certain kinds of love are what's valuable. It's not like here certain kinds of material are valuable. you have your gold and your diamonds and your silver. But then also if you own land or you have a phenomenally successful business or Yeah. If you if you shrunk those materials together in a
• 82:00 - 82:30 way that's called a Ferrari, that's valuable. There's there's value in those things. Yeah. Rare earth something that that's what value is. In heaven, certain kinds of love are valuable and certain kinds of ideas are valuable. So if you're storing up for yourselves treasures in heaven, that means you invest your time and energy into cultivating good love and and understanding and incor and ingesting into your mind valuable truth. And it's
• 82:30 - 83:00 easy to picture people who have great love and great wisdom in this world who are not phenomenally successful or wealthy or you know they don't don't have huge land holdings or something uh but they've invested so to speak in that in that love and that understanding knowing who people are how to help them that sort of thing. This is further in secrets of heaven. Since possessions, riches, wealth, silver, and gold mean the things
• 83:00 - 83:30 that constitute intelligence and wisdom, the Lord also compares the kingdom of heaven to a treasure hidden in a field, which we already covered. And he says that people should provide themselves treasure that does not fail in heaven. For where the treasure is, there is the heart. And he quotes Matthew and Luke about that. So the things that constitute intelligence and wisdom are are spiritual riches. And wisdom, wisdom is an interesting one because which to Swedenborg intelligence which you could
• 83:30 - 84:00 see as you know knowing a decent amount of things having a good rational faculty sort of that's like rationality but intelligence is more being able to discern what's actually true and what's false and wisdom which is the ultimate goal of all that is purely living a good life based on that. So what to that? There's a the hard thing in life or the important thing in life is not you could know a whole bunch but yet you choose
• 84:00 - 84:30 the broad way which is you know a ton and you use it to manipulate, lie, cheat, steal, live the life of hell. Uh that's you've wasted all your money. You can know just a few things but you use them to live the life of heaven. That's what wisdom wisdom is simply a function of being able to select out of all these ideas and paths and think that's the one that's what's how it's good and that
• 84:30 - 85:00 knowing I should put that first in my life that's what wisdom is that's like storing up that's the mo that's uh that's buying uh Apple stock in 198 or whenever they started yeah I'm picturing uh as an example two different doctors, let's say, and one of those doctors is just phenomenally knowledgeable. They've done tremendous research on this
• 85:00 - 85:30 particular kind of disease and ailment and they can tell you this is a so and so a so and so osis and this is that but this is what then you picture another doctor who may have a lot of the same knowledge but not necessarily but they understand you're frightened you've just received a diagnosis this is this is hard for you I can put myself in your shoes and see how this would be to hear this. So the way that I frame this and
• 85:30 - 86:00 what I tell you about this will make a big difference to you in the way that this session goes. This your life is changing right now. You know wisdom. Yeah. Not just knowledge, not just understanding wisdom quite different things. If you are Dr. important your first one and you have got something something published in medical journal today something you're on the board of something something at hospital J and you have all this stuff
• 86:00 - 86:30 that is wow does that look good and yet all of that and the pursuit of that leads you to do unethical things like you in the pursuit of the next thing of that you ignore or underserve some patients of yours I don't know. I don't know the world of being a doctor enough, but you somehow redirect resources in a way that's not good or something. Um, fool. You're a that that that stuff has
• 86:30 - 87:00 made you poor. Yes. Because because what's going to happen is soon you're going to die. All of the stuff that you got, all the stuff that you got, all the positions and everything, it doesn't matter anymore because you're not in the world and you don't, those positions don't carry over. What carries over is your attitude. And if all that was a reinforcement mechanism for this attitude which is these people, all these little people around me are nothing. I I become greater at any cost. Um that is all you have left and that's
• 87:00 - 87:30 of no value. That's of no spiritual value. Because why would it be that without the trappings of nobody's going to look at that and say that's really that's so great that you did that you're like that. It's like investing in Betamax or some some technology that's just completely defunct. No offense to Betamax. No, no, it was great at the time. It was great. I don't even know what it was. Is it like a kind of computer thing? Yeah. It was a videape. Oh, yeah. Format in the competitor to VHS. That's right. Oh, good. Oh, you think I never rewind a VHS?
• 87:30 - 88:00 You think I'm some spring chicken? Rewind. Let's talk about the last the last quality of heaven, which we just were alluding to, which is that heaven is based on eternal things. not temporal things. Okay. And this is uh can you look up John 18:36? Yes. Pilate is asking Jesus about his kingdom. Jesus answered, "My kingdom is
• 88:00 - 88:30 not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight so that I should not be delivered. But now my kingdom is not from here." This is what Swedenborg says about that. Divine providence focuses on our eternal state at every step of the journey. People who are engaged with divinity based their thinking on the Lord and are thinking in eternal terms even while they think about what is present to them. So they say to themselves, "What
• 88:30 - 89:00 is anything that is not eternal? Aren't temporal things nothing at all by comparison? And don't they become nothing when they end? What is eternal is different. It simply is because there is no limit to its being. Thinking like this is thinking in terms of eternity even while we are thinking about what is present. And when we both think and live this way then emanating divinity with us or divine providence focuses on the state of our eternal life in heaven at
• 89:00 - 89:30 every step of our journey and is leading us to it. I've sometimes found it really useful to um you know when you're in a jam or life looks absolutely hopeless or um it it's useful sometimes to I've just imagine going 10,000 years ahead. How important is this 10,000 years from now? And what's helpful from the kinds of
• 89:30 - 90:00 things that Swedenborg says is that there are things about right now that do affect my situation 10,000 years from now. Yes. But they are and it's I find it useful exercise because it's not just that oh this will all be completely meaningless. Like what a waste of time and energy to even have lived now you know I should just go there. Yeah. no the the way you live now but realizing that oh I have a choice right now often in those situations there's some choice about well is it about my ego or is it
• 90:00 - 90:30 about you know somebody else or doing the right thing or something like that yeah you know and those things do impact your 10,000year picture and it must be so interesting to be in heaven because you would really understand that wow how important was it that you were the head of the deputy something to the something something something you know that you worked so hard to get I mean that was a position in which you could be useful to people that's great but how important if you sort of
• 90:30 - 91:00 treasured that title well that's my title you know right it's it's so not important they've seen all these things come and go good health bad health all of it it all comes and goes you know but there are things that are lasting and wow you really want to live in that last the whole idea of heaven is living in things that persist, not forget the churn and the turnover
• 91:00 - 91:30 and all all that other stuff that comes and goes. Swedenborg is often imploring us to think in terms of eternity and keep that in mind right now because it's true and that's where we're headed and it can kind of sort your priorities sometimes. That's great. I love that the the position you're talking about. It's I got this position. Um the director of whatever he said there's something eternal in that. The eternal thing though is not the position. It's your attitude toward the
• 91:30 - 92:00 position that's eternal because if you have Yeah. We need some people need to have that position and we hope good people get it. Yep. your attitude toward if you get some high position in the world and you think um look at this that means I'm better than people and it reinforces that people are of little consequence compared to me and I can crush my enemies now finally gives free
• 92:00 - 92:30 reign to my my worst impulses okay then that is eternally uh bad that's That's the that's your position itself means nothing because it'll be gone soon. You'll be left with that. However, erase that. If you have that position and in that position when it counts, you think, well, I'm no I'm no in no way superior to any other person. I believe that I'm
• 92:30 - 93:00 in this position because God has put me here, just like he puts everyone where they need to go. The reason I'm here is that there's goodness I'm supposed to be doing through this. I'm not I'm here to serve whatever human beings I interact with through this and try to do what's right at the behest of God who I'm always trying to parse like what's the right way to live and I'm humble. That attitude that's a permanent part of you because attitudes do last can last forever. So in everything you have you have your life it's not like oh I only
• 93:00 - 93:30 think of eternal things. Well what's going to be eternal if you look around the world? Well, these trees, they're not going to be eternal. Maybe this granite mountain will be here in 20 million years. Okay. Is that what I think about? No. The your attitude toward your job, your attitude toward your spouse, your attitude towards your co-workers and your people you know in your life, the things you live and believe in, th those are eternal. And particularly the good stuff is what stays. So that's all it is is to say, I know what lasts and I know what's
• 93:30 - 94:00 important. What what builds the kingdom of heaven. It all comes down to if this is contributing to the kingdom of heaven then and that's what I care about then God's aim which is always taking that long view through the temporary things and my aim converge. Yes. And then you're living the life of the kingdom of heaven. Okay. So where did we get to here and and how did we get there? How do let's bring this all together at the end.
• 94:00 - 94:30 What's striking me about what we've been talking about is that the Lord had all this information he wanted to convey about heaven. But an important principle, an important form of wisdom is that you don't share information with people who are absolutely not going to be receptive to it or won't, you know, for whatever reason. And I'm not blaming people. It's just that the whole level of understanding in the
• 94:30 - 95:00 human race, you know, very low literacy rates or whatever. So just people were not in a state to be able to receive this or or handle it well. And Jesus could also sort of foresee where things were going in the future and and like this would be problematic if we if we spell it all out clearly right now. It might get twisted upside down or something. better to wait and have kind of a re-release of the sort of, you know, director's cut later.
• 95:00 - 95:30 And so this information is hidden in these very earth bound in a good way. you know, these these very earthy images of making bread, fishing, you know, planting seeds and and finding something in in in a field and selling what you have and buying it that um and yet I love how Swedenborg opens up for us that
• 95:30 - 96:00 all of these things, it's not an accident that it says a pearl or a buried treasure or that it picks on a mustard seed or, you know, all these things are meaningful and when we understand what is being said, we get fabulous information about the nature of of heaven and real guidance for our lives. I mean, this is operationalizable or whatever you'd say. It's you you can you can live by this.
• 96:00 - 96:30 What else? What else would uh God want to leave with people other than something that's going to have the potential to grow with them and continue to teach and lead them and isn't that even in all the intervening time people have looked at these parables of Jesus and used it to live a good life and gotten to heaven and as we get to understand more and more about what it actually means we can continue to do that you know more and more effective ways but Um, it's a pretty good trick.
• 96:30 - 97:00 It's a pretty good trick that he pulled off. And so for for whatever reason, like now, yep, we can we can know the plum the mysteries of it, get the get the full intel or, you know, a lot more intel and then go and you if if you know what the kingdom of heaven is, executing on that, it's not impossible. It's not too hard. You know how to do it. There's a rational, straightforward blueprint. Okay, let's go. Let's do that. And it might be actually because people were better in the past and we're worse now. We need
• 97:00 - 97:30 the information more badly or whatever. It's not necessarily trying to compliment ourselves and and denigrate people in the past. Uh no offense. But it but it is a season right now where these things are being revealed. Mhm. And it's for this next phase that's coming up, this kind of new religious era that Swedenborg foretells and that I think is starting to roll out. Very cool. Well, love getting to unpack these
• 97:30 - 98:00 things with you. Thanks everybody for watching this show. Super fun that you'd be willing to make it to the end of this whole show with us here. uh go get in those things yourself in those parables and let us know what you find in there. Um because there's many mansions. I think within every truth there's many mansions. So you get in there and find out what part of it how you can uh uncover more of the the whole meaning that God's sticking in there. Thanks. See you. [Music]