Alpha Hour: CH on Why He’s the Biggest $TAO Bull Out There

Summary

Highlights

• CH's crypto journey began over seven years ago, evolving from gold trading to heading social media at BitGet. 🌟
• He describes Bit Tensor as the 'Bitcoin of AI,' emphasizing its decentralized AI capabilities. ⚡
• Bit Tensor's unique 'proof of useful work' concept aligns global AI resources productively. 🌍
• Exciting Bit Tensor subnets like Bitmind lead in AI deepfake detection with over 90% accuracy! 🕵️‍♂️
• CH's analysis of market cycles draws parallels between current trends and the 2016 post-Trump election cycle. 🔄
• He stresses the importance of blockchain's human capital, noting key industry figures like Barry Silbert and David Lawi supporting Bit Tensor. 🌐
• For future prospects, CH suggests keeping a close watch on incentives and AI tech development in crypto. 🔍
• His bullish outlook extends to potential liquidity injections expected later this year, which could favor cryptocurrencies! 💸

Key Takeaways

• CH is a passionate advocate for Bit Tensor ($TAO) and sees it as a revolutionary project in AI and crypto 💪.
• The similarities between Bit Tensor and Bitcoin include its tokconomics and decentralization principles 🌐.
• CH highlights the importance of incentives in aligning global resources towards productive AI outputs 👥.
• With over 80 different subnets, Bit Tensor offers unique utility in the AI sector, such as deepfake detection and companion AIs 🤖.
• Macro insights indicate potential bullish trends, with the current market cycle possibly mirroring the previous Trump presidency cycle 📈.
• The importance of focusing on long-term bets rather than short-term speculative trading in the crypto space 🏦.
• Community engagement and insights from industry veterans boost CH's confidence in Bit Tensor's potential 🚀.
• CH advises focusing on accumulating 'winner' projects rather than diversifying too broadly in crypto 🤓.

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 03:00: Introduction In the introduction chapter, the host welcomes viewers to a Coinsider live stream. The guest for this session is CH, the senior social media manager of BitGet, and a friend of the host, whom they met in Taiwan a couple of years ago. The host briefly interrupts to ensure the stream is functioning correctly before mentioning that the discussion will cover some intriguing topics.
• 03:00 - 10:00: CH's Background The chapter discusses CH's background, focusing on CH's unique perspectives on the crypto markets and macroeconomics. CH is recognized as a well-read individual and a leading representative of a top-tier exchange. The chapter begins with an introduction to CH by Kevin.
• 10:00 - 20:00: Getting into Crypto and Content Creation The chapter titled 'Getting into Crypto and Content Creation' features a guest on the 'Coinsider' show expressing their excitement about being part of the stream. The guest, who has been in the cryptocurrency space for seven years, shares their journey and experiences. They recognize 'Coinsider' as a significant player in the industry and express gratitude for the opportunity to join the stream and engage with the host. This chapter sets the stage for discussing the evolution and personal experiences of someone deeply involved in crypto and content creation.
• 20:00 - 31:00: Bit Tensor Tao Overview The chapter titled 'Bit Tensor Tao Overview' starts with the author's career journey, initially studying business and working in various roles involving sales, interpersonal, and business activities. They eventually transitioned to commodities, specifically working in the gold industry at a gold refinery. The author learned extensively about the commodities sector, particularly gold. The narrative highlights the contrast between gold, as the oldest commodity, and Bitcoin, the newest digital commodity, while mentioning that Bitcoin made a significant impression on the author.
• 31:00 - 41:00: Subnets and Use Cases - Bitmind and Dippy The narrator initially recounts their introduction to cryptocurrencies, highlighting the mixed emotions involved. They experienced misfortune by being introduced through a scam known as a 'rugpull,' a common pitfall for newcomers in the crypto world who must 'pay tuition' through such experiences. Despite the setback, this encounter sparked their interest and led to further reading and understanding of cryptocurrencies.
• 41:00 - 53:00: Challenges and Innovations in Bit Tensor This chapter discusses the speaker's initial skepticism about cryptocurrency, largely influenced by negative media headlines and opinions from well-known financial figures like Warren Buffett. The speaker reflects on missing out on the cryptocurrency boom in 2017 due to this skepticism but maintains a positive outlook on future opportunities in the field, specifically focusing on Bit Tensor.
• 53:00 - 58:00: Tokenomics and Investment Strategy The chapter titled 'Tokenomics and Investment Strategy' begins with the author's personal journey into the world of cryptocurrency, which started in 2018. The author describes their deep dive into learning about crypto, likening it to falling down a rabbit hole, drawing a parallel to their content creation channel named 'the crypto rabbit hole.' This metaphor illustrates the complex and all-encompassing nature of cryptocurrency topics. They emphasize that regardless of one's interests or beliefs, Bitcoin and the crypto space offer valuable insights and avenues, whether one is a philosopher, an investor, or holds any other interest.
• 58:00 - 69:00: Market and Macro Views The chapter "Market and Macro Views" discusses the diverse perspectives and motivations individuals bring to their involvement with Bitcoin. It highlights Bitcoin's multidisciplinary appeal and the personal journeys many undertake in the cryptocurrency space. The speaker shares their own experience, starting with learning about altcoins and going through the typical volatility associated with them. In 2019, the speaker began collaborating with a Swiss project based in Zug's Crypto Valley called Vellis.
• 69:00 - 81:20: Future of Crypto and Retail Behavior The chapter discusses the development and future of blockchain technology, specifically referencing Solana's fork blockchain from 2019. It highlights the hype around blockchain becoming AI-based. The narrative features Alex Alexandro, the founder behind this innovation and also the founder of Coin Payments, a major company handling significant transaction volumes, mentioned as $30 billion. It includes an anecdote of a chance meeting with Alex in Asia during the speaker's earlier career.
• 81:20 - 90:00: Closing Thoughts on Crypto Investment Strategies The chapter discusses strategies around marketing and capital raising in the crypto industry. Leveraging networking opportunities can lead to significant success, exemplified by raising substantial funds via a master node program. Cryptocurrency investments proved profitable as market caps of well-chosen digital assets, such as a initially sub 50 million market cap token, can soar to over a billion, underscoring the potential large returns on investments.

Alpha Hour: CH on Why He’s the Biggest $TAO Bull Out There Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 hey everybody welcome back to another Coinsider live stream and in today's alpha hour I'm here with CH um the senior social media manager of BitGet and a good friend of mine that I met in Taiwan a couple years ago um so today we have a really interesting conversation in stream one sec I just had to make sure that this was working um we're going to talk about a few juicy
• 00:30 - 01:00 topics one is Bit Tensor Tao a kind of one of the the best projects in the AI crypto space um and I'm going to talk about CH's unique views on the crypto markets and macro um just being a well read person but also being like one of the leading reps of one of the best exchanges out there so CH could you give a just a quick intro for those who don't know you yet absolutely Kevin thank you so much for
• 01:00 - 01:30 for having me it's a it's an honor and a pleasure to be on Coinsider i've always been a fan i've been in crypto for seven years now and so of course of course you Coinsider one of the top dogs in the in in the industry and so it's amazing to of course meet you uh become friends and now uh have the the honor of coming on your stream so uh it's great to be here but my little intro so like I said I've been in crypto for seven years um before crypto
• 01:30 - 02:00 I I studied business and then I I had different jobs and I I did a lot of sales a lot of kind of interpersonal stuff a lot of business stuff and then I got into commodities i was actually in the gold business before I got in crypto and I worked for a gold refinery and so I learned everything about the the commodities sector uh specifically the gold gold industry and it's funny because I went from the oldest sector oldest commodity to now the newest commodity the digital commodity right uh but Bitcoin made a lot of sense to me
• 02:00 - 02:30 when I first learned about it of course understanding gold's um components so I got into crypto and unfortunately and fortunately like unfortunately in that the first thing I ever learned about or got into actually ended up being a rugpole as I'm sure many of our viewers share we have to pay tuition to to be in crypto right but it was that that opportunity that got me into reading about crypto and I think for me before
• 02:30 - 03:00 before I got in in 2018 you know in 2017 we had that big ICO run and all I had read about crypto it was just the the uh these article titles of like Warren Buffett says it's rat poison squared and so I'm like oh if Warren Buffett says it then for sure it's rat it's it's BS it's terrible right and never never split the time to do the work and unfortunately missed out on that boom but you know either way the the following year in
• 03:00 - 03:30 2018 I I started to read about crypto I started to learn about it and I just went down this rabbit hole and so as you can see behind me here I I I call I'm also a creator i'm a content creator and so I I you know I titled my my channel the crypto rabbit hole but uh it really is a rabbit hole that you fall down in right no matter your interests your your hobbies your whatever it is that you believe in there's always a way through to you via Bitcoin right maybe you're a philosopher maybe you're a investor who
• 03:30 - 04:00 wants to make a ton of money maybe you're a liberal fanatic all these different you know paths forward with Bitcoin right it's multid-disciplinary so I think that's uh super super cool about Bitcoin but of course that led me down a path of learning about alts and you know investing into altcoins and and really just going through the ups and downs and in 2019 I started to work with a project out of Switzerland out of Zug Crypto Valley called Vellis fellas is a
• 04:00 - 04:30 layer one salana fork blockchain uh back then it was this is in 2019 they were they were saying how it's going to be AI uh you know based blockchain anyway it's a lot of hype but the founder behind it is a guy named Alex Alexandro who is the founder of coin payments and this is a massive company they do like $30 billion in in volume and I I had a chance meeting with him in Asia actually um and this is back when I was still doing a
• 04:30 - 05:00 lot of sales and um he was like "Hey you if you want to do some marketing with us we'd love to to have you on board." And so I started to to market them uh in Asia started to raise capital for them they had a master node program uh and I was able to raise a substantial fund and but I was paid in this token and I got in when it was like sub 50 mil market cap and in 2021 as as you know everything exploded and vevelis went to over a billion dollars in market cap and so that was really the first time my
• 05:00 - 05:30 life transformed i got to experience really the wealth transformation wealth effect of cryptocurrency and you know I I had financial freedom at that point for sure and so you know at that point like I just all I all I talked about was crypto i was like this is this is the tool man this is like this is how the average Joe gets an edge you got to get into crypto like what else are you going to buy you going to buy bonds and just sit on it like no you gota you got to take some risk right yeah when you're in your 30s 20s like you just got to go for it um but anyway so that's that's how I
• 05:30 - 06:00 in 2021 I was just sitting on this pot of gold and I was like "What do I want to do with my life?" You know and a bunch of my friends were like "You actually should look into starting YouTube." And I was like "Actually that's a great idea." And then I just fell down a rabbit hole of learning about content creation and um yeah it's it's been a wild journey but that's that's kind of kind of where I am you know but maybe to one one more thing is in 2022 obviously with FTX blowing up and
• 06:00 - 06:30 everything crashed you know and uh luckily BitKet saw one of my videos because I've been making content for about a year and that's how I got my job at BitKet and it's been a great journey awesome so I want to ask you more about that later in the stream um there there's a lot of juicy topics I want to ask you today but um I want to start with really the star of the show today and that's Bit Tensor Tow because I know like that's one of your highest conviction longest term bets and it's
• 06:30 - 07:00 arguably like one of the flagship projects in the AI crypto sector um so let's not assume that the viewers know everything about it so can you just give a quick like couple minutes overview first before I dive into some more specific questions and more like recent stuff yeah sounds good so I think to to start let's not look at Bitensor first i think let's look at Bitcoin first because Bitcoin is the zero to one right it's the granddaddy of of everything
• 07:00 - 07:30 that we that we know of in in the industry right so what is Bitcoin bitcoin is the first truly decentralized network where using incentives and aligning incentives you're able to get miners and people from all over the world to contribute their resources to achieve a common goal which is to secure the network right in a nutshell that's what Bitcoin is but inherently nothing productive comes out of Bitcoin it's very important don't get me wrong to secure a network and have a network that uh you can't inflate away uh obviously
• 07:30 - 08:00 it solves a lot of problems like uh monetary debasement from central banks uh it could be a hedge against inflation it's digital gold you know so on so forth I won't bore you with the bitcoin stuff but it's really important to understand the value prop of bitcoin for you to kind of see what I see with bitenser okay now like I said nothing inherently productive comes out of bitcoin right but again it's very important and this is why it's gotten so much adoption right there's a lot of
• 08:00 - 08:30 attention around Bitcoin and now this is really the first first year where the the US government is now you know publicly bullish and they're going all in on it uh but we'll we'll talk about that uh down the stream I'm sure but let's let's go back to Bit Tensor i think Bit Tensor is the next iteration in that the founder of Bitensor or should I say the founder of OpenTensor Foundation is a guy named Jacob Steve who is a Google uh engineer ex Google
• 08:30 - 09:00 engineer uh AI engineer who is a massive Bitcoiner right and so he he essentially took Bitcoin's philosophies and um you know uh essentially the the the the way the network is constructed and then he applied it on AI because he's thinking like okay as an AI engineer how do I then make AI permissionless how do I make it censorship resistant right all these different components that Bitcoin has how do I then apply that onto AI
• 09:00 - 09:30 okay and so that's what he has done and so Bitensor mirrors Bitcoin's tokconomics it has 21 million tokens total supply right it follows a having schedule and which by the way the first having is coming I think now in January uh of of 2026 so Q1 of next year coming up that's going to be the first having so if if there's any indication of Bitcoin's having schedule and price appreciation you can also speculate that Bitensor will likely follow the same
• 09:30 - 10:00 trajectory okay uh so I think the Bitcoin tokconomics is actually what really resonated with me initially i actually saw somebody post about this on X he was like "Anon this is this is the Bitcoin of AI." And I was like "What is this?" He's like "It's 21 million it's the same as Bitcoin." And I'm like "Wow you know I come across a ton of projects and you know I haven't seen any tokconomics that obviously resembles that of Bitcoin right?" And I've I've invested in projects where you know several billion in token and you know it
• 10:00 - 10:30 just gets inflated away and then there's a lot of dilution and next thing I know my token is worth next to nothing because it's just been dumped up right right right there's a lot of that kind of stuff in crypto and so I think tokconomics of course is very important and that's how I kind of fell down the initial rabbit hole with Bitensor but seeing seeing that I then went down to see okay what what is it that this network is producing right okay bitensor you can think of you know how Bitcoin has proof of work bitensor essentially has proof of useful
• 10:30 - 11:00 work okay any miners who come on the network who want to earn uh you need to provide your resources to then um have some sort of AI output right now it's just AI output but you can think of Bitensor as just incentive mechanisms pure and simple it's just incentive mechanisms and as Charlie Mer has famously said show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome right incentives run the world think about any business transaction any contracts what
• 11:00 - 11:30 does it come down to it comes down to what are your incentives what is it that you're trying to achieve why did you start a YouTube channel you have incentive to build a following to make a living everything comes down to incentives and so I think what Bitensor is doing is by using crypto incentives to then align and coordinate resources from all over the world to produce cutting edge AI output simple as that that makes a lot of sense go ahead yeah uh yeah so so that's essentially Bit
• 11:30 - 12:00 Tensor in a in a nutshell and now as I'm sure we'll we'll dive into there's actually currently there's over 80 different subnets so each subnet uh has a specific AI use case right it solves a specific problem and actually what I think was really fascinating is uh because it's decentralized because it's permissionless the subnet owners who come on uh you know they have to design the incentive and if you if you don't know how to design incentives you can bet that miners will come and take
• 12:00 - 12:30 advantage of you and and you'll probably trash your your subnet and uh you know it's a competition right it's free market dynamics so it's like you know uh essentially it's uh what's the what's the word it's uh like king of the hill like if you if you like you need to produce really cutting edge stuff and be competitive for you to stay in the game or else you're gonna get kicked off the network that's as simple as that for sure um so I want to ask you about some examples because I know when I first looked into Bit Tensor
• 12:30 - 13:00 one of the big criticisms was that all the um subnets and apps per se were very like rough around the ed edges but it's been over a year since then it's probably been like year and a half since then so I know things are much different now um so can you give some top examples of like really cool or useful apps that are deployed on their own subnets per se for sure uh one one subnet that um that
• 13:00 - 13:30 I think is really cool is subnet 33 called Bitmind and what Bitmind does is they do deep defake detection and now by the way if you just look at defake as a problem it's a massive problem right um there are billions of dollars that are lost every year because of defects um there was a very notable uh uh case in Hong Kong i think that was uh happened a a few months ago where a employee of a of a big firm got scammed out of $25 million because he thought his CFO was
• 13:30 - 14:00 facetiming him and asking for funds and end up being a defake right but if you if you're looking at uh defects as a company how do you monetize defake detection it's a very hard thing to do very very hard thing to do and if you're thinking from a centralized company if I make a defake detection AI or technology how do I know down like how do I know that the AI is down the
• 14:00 - 14:30 defing AI technologies as a centralized company it's very hard for me to gauge the threat that's out there to make sure that I can I can you know effectively detect these defects and and solve a problem for our users that's a centralized you know top- down approach but what Bitensor is doing what Bitine is doing is using miners from around the world they provide an incentive of Tao and they'll you know they have a plugin by the way it's a very simple plugin that you install in your browser and if
• 14:30 - 15:00 you're scrolling on X or whatever website if you come across something that you're like "Oh is this a defake?" All you got to do is just tap on their plugin and just click detect and it'll show you the the probability of how likely this thing in front of you is a defake by the way they have over 90% accuracy which is literally the best in the world there was a paper that was released a few months ago and they studied Bitmine's um output in in AI detection is uh it far surpasses the the
• 15:00 - 15:30 next best centralized entity which is like 84% accuracy bit mine is at over 90 so it's literally the best AI detection in the world now how is this possible it's not because Bitmine the company or or the owner of the subnet is a genius and he developed this technology no it's actually because he used token incentives to align people from all over the world who can provide the most cutting edge uh whether that's resources or or whatever it is to to align a to
• 15:30 - 16:00 align the coordination and make sure the defect that they're detecting is uh cutting edge so I think that's super super cool really cool that's one use case right that's one of 80 different use cases that are currently live of course there are many of them that's all that's BS it's just like coming on the network they're trying to get emissions but if you look at the top 10 subnets there's a lot that's just very promising but then also garnering a lot of users can you give us a second example bit mine number one too that's really fascinating
• 16:00 - 16:30 uh another one is uh I I thought it was really cool is uh Dippy dippy is a companion AI um and they have over 60 six sorry 600,000 users and uh it's massive right it's like companion AI so it's it's like a chatbot where you can talk to and it's like your friend right i don't know if you use this but like I I I did before and then I started to to read up on it you know the movie Her h R her yeah it's literally that in real
• 16:30 - 17:00 life so it's like you have this chatbot that you talk to and it becomes your friend and you know I think a big use case of course it's like lonely men at home they they you know they chat with this this this you know this this bot and they like you know they get emotionally involved right and that's kind of the plot of her right but like there's a company that Google bought what is the name there's a a really big company uh I got to look at it but it was it was purchased for or should I say
• 17:00 - 17:30 the the founder of that company google paid like$1 point something billion dollars just to get him back to work on Deep Mind at Google and that that company has raised billions of dollars a lot of these like centralized AI companies are worth billions of dollars and what Betensor is doing is he's kind of like using just decentralizing a lot of these companies and then allowing people from all over the world again to to to contribute and and build upon it and if you look at if you look at
• 17:30 - 18:00 Bitcoin just for example right bitcoin as a network is bigger than five of the biggest private banks combined obviously it's 15 years in the making but what does that tell you it tells you if you are able to align incentives and have a successful coordination across the world you can build something that is truly decentralized and organic because it spreads like wildfire in a virus right and AI being the most important
• 18:00 - 18:30 technology of our lifetime and it's there's a lot there's a lot to be said about how AI needs to be censorship resistant it needs to be transparent because right now there's a lot of problems with centralized AI and I made a whole deep dive video on this but essentially there's things like u biases there's things like uh lack of transparency all the training everything happens in a black box you don't know you know why the AI derived its output uh with a lot of these centralized models so there's a lot of there's a lot
• 18:30 - 19:00 to be said why it needs to be decentralized because people are like oh we don't even need decentralized actually on the contrary you actually do think about it if if you are always using chatbt and then everything you do uh on on the the AI maybe chatbt at the end is just trying to sway you into making a purchasing decision everything that you do they're just trying to make money off of you maybe that's not the best for you right and that's that's one use case and do you really want someone like Sam Alman to to control you know
• 19:00 - 19:30 the most powerful technology i think you know history goes to show us if if those who have absolute power will corrupt absolutely so you know I think this is also why Bitcoin was was given birth right you have the central banks corrupting the system uh and I think now with AI this is the next iteration and I think potent makes sense and also I think if you think from first principles there's something called the Pareto distribution and this is true across all markets right you have you
• 19:30 - 20:00 have the uh let's just look at uh the crypto market right 80% of the liquidity essentially 20% of the top projects will take up 80% of the liquidity right the 8020 rule that's the Pareto distribution and that's true across Bitcoin or crypto that's true across equities that's true across commodities gold being the biggest right yep uh and so if you look at that and you extrapolate that and you apply it to the crypto AI sector Bit Tensor is at
• 20:00 - 20:30 the very top it is the king of crypto AI and if if there's any indication and lessons learned from that is that the winners will keep winning and the smartest devs in within AI not even just crypto it's like AI devs they're now coming onto the Bit Tensor Network and they're mining and they're contributing and they're earning emissions and and you just see just some of the smartest people are all coming i know Dippy uh that companion AI uh subet I was telling you about their founder I was talking to
• 20:30 - 21:00 them they were like "We have we have guys high up in Anthropic that are mining on our network uh on their weekends." Dang that's crazy that's crazy so like yeah go ahead or go ahead finish your um your thought there no no I just essentially I was just finishing up to say like you know I think it just overall I've been in crypto for this long seven years um I just haven't found anything where the tokconomics makes perfect sense uh the value proposition
• 21:00 - 21:30 makes perfect sense uh and you have a truly decentralized not like just VCcoin top down approach but like what open sensor foundation is trying to do is they're actively decentralizing and trying to step away from the network but you know just like Bitcoin when it first started Satoshi couldn't just step away in year one that he had to incubate and he had to make the the network flourish before he could step away so he stepped away in 2011 right three years into Bitcoin or two two years however way you want to see it from the release of the white paper and the network going live Satoshi spent like three years before he
• 21:30 - 22:00 can actually actively leave so this is what Bitensor or Open Tensor Foundation is also doing they are actively looking to completely decentralize the network where actually later on they will have no no say at all like they want to truly decentralize it because again the founder of Open Tensor Jacob Steves is a massive Bitcoiner and he's applying everything good about Bitcoin onto Bit Tensor the next iteration of the AI decentralized network thank you that was a great um
• 22:00 - 22:30 explainer so one thing I'm wondering uh a really quick question is for all these different subnetss do they all have their own tokens as well or how does that work so yes so only about a month and a half ago did the dynamic towel upgrade come come to be uh I need to step back a bit and maybe explain why this was needed before dynamic towel right now by the way each subnet like you said has its own what they call alpha token okay um before dynamic tao
• 22:30 - 23:00 it was on a essentially miners uh would create the incentive and then there would be validators sorry sorry sorry let's go back it's subnet owners who will create the the incentives and then miners and validators will come and work together miners will create the actual output and validators will judge the miners output to return the best output to the users and then they will grade it uh and again it's free market uh you know competition but actually that created a lot of
• 23:00 - 23:30 bureaucracy and politics because instead of marketing to the the mass market uh essentially some owners would then start to to market to validators to have some sort of back backend backdoor deals which is not okay you don't want that kind of stuff to go on in your network you want the free market the free you know free market dynamics to to really take place and so what happens and also another thing is you can't just bet on
• 23:30 - 24:00 specific subnets you have to bet on the whole network and there were some some uh shady people who came out of the network they were just freeloading and they were mining and they were dumping and there was just a lot of that kind of stuff when any new network when they're first starting you're going to experience this kind of stuff there's a lot of trial and error a lot of experimentation and so about a A month and a half ago dynamic tao was was uh launched to combat all of this and as we're seeing now actually it's it's completely solving this problem now
• 24:00 - 24:30 subnet subnets are incentivized to market to the masses and to try to attract towel holders to come and and uh deposit liquidity their towel uh into their pool because it's kind of like a a unis swap pool where you have to deposit your towel to get this alpha token and then you'll get emissions um uh as a reward and the APRs right now are crazy high i don't know if you've looked at the subnet returns but there's a full-on raging bull market in the subnets like there are in the past Yeah in the past
• 24:30 - 25:00 month there subnets that have gone like 10x uh just within within a month it's crazy you should you should take a look and they're all super super low in market cap the volatility is insane but again holders are incentivized to to uh swap their tokens because they get the emissions the emissions are crazy high uh right now and again the first having is coming uh towards the end of this year and so that's when the first uh big slash uh in in new token supplies is going to come into effect so just like
• 25:00 - 25:30 Bitcoin in the first four years of mining is the most profitable of course it's the coin is insanely volatile because it's still new it's not really being adopted yet there's u uh a lot of risk right quoteunquote risk it's just a very new thing and so of course we're seeing that same thing with with TA the volatility is immense um it could be perceived as very risky but also it could be perceived as a amazing opportunity which is how I see it
• 25:30 - 26:00 because I'm able to just accumulate like crazy and hopefully I will become a towel down down the road so question about that um you're talking about these like this mini bull market and the ecosystem and whatnot what do you recommend people like should they just buy and hold tow or should they like partake in some of the ecosystem um activities and whatnot also your webcam closed by the way yeah yeah it's it it shuts off it's coming back on don't worry um but uh so essentially uh I
• 26:00 - 26:30 would say I would say just dip your toe in to get Tao but then once you get into Tao you're going to become fascinated about these subnets and you're going to the more you read up on them uh it just makes a lot of sense for you to to start holding a lot of these alpha tokens personally I hold a bunch and the returns are insane it's like 100 to 150 APY right now and you're you're earning it in this alpha token but then you're you're you can swap into TA that's that's all you can do you can only swap
• 26:30 - 27:00 into TA so the denomination is TA right um but and and like I'm not a trader i'm an investor that's the game I play maybe I'm sure a lot of your viewers are traders they want to get in and out you can do that no problem you can swap your towel for Alpha tokens you can see it go up go down uh it's crazy volatile but it's been on an uptrend most all of the tokens are all on an uptrend um but I would say just dip your toe in like just
• 27:00 - 27:30 learn about TA first if you don't even know about Tao obviously there's no point in learning about subnets because you have to just learn what Tao is first right once you get that exposure uh it's a natural progression for you to want to learn about subnets and the alpha tokens and how they all work um and I I if if you go down deep in the rabbit hole I believe you will see a crazy opportunity and it's hard for you to not be involved so that is uh great to hear um I love to
• 27:30 - 28:00 see your conviction and bullishness for this project and ecosystem i did share your ex um account in the description but um your video on tow is in your cryp crypto rabbit hole channel am I right correct uh well it's actually I released the whole thing on my ex as well uh but if you go on my ex actually I I made a a video with altcoin daily uh on on AI and Bit Tensor was a part of that as well and I pinned that to to my post so if
• 28:00 - 28:30 the viewers you're interested you can see it go check that out all right um I want to shift gears now or do you have any final things you want to say about Bitensor or can we shift gears uh maybe one last thing that I can share is uh one of the things that that um got me a lot of conviction actually is the human capital element of Bit Tensor um I think some of the smartest people I see online who are just gigabrains who um who I follow and I read a lot of the stuff
• 28:30 - 29:00 that I put out some of the smartest people they're actively part of the community they're so bullish on Tao and one person for example I'm sure many of your viewers including yourself will will know is Barry Silbert barry Silbert is the founder of Digital Currency Group they're one of the biggest conglomerates in crypto this guy is an OG Bitcoiner i think he got into Bitcoin in 2011 he created Grayscale in 2013 right this guy is a multi-billionaire a crypto
• 29:00 - 29:30 multi-billionaire and he went all in on bit on Bitcoin of course great dcg also previously owned uh Coindesk right they they uh they also run Foundry which is the world's biggest Bitcoin mining pool in the world and who by the way uh Foundry has shifted gear into becoming a subnet on Bit Tensor and Barry Silbert created a company a few months ago called Yuma and Yuma's entire premise and business model is to incubate and
• 29:30 - 30:00 accelerate Bitensor subnetss they're a validator on the network um so somebody who is this of this stature who is now going all in and and if you go on Barry Sobert's X on Twitter you'll see him post about Bit Tensor all the time this guy has has probably more conviction than me like he's he's all in and and Coindesk even released an article of him uh calling Bitensor the worldwide web of AI and so for me it's like the human
• 30:00 - 30:30 capital if the smart some of the smartest people in the world who's mega successful within this industry is actively telling you we're so early in this you should listen okay that's that's one component another another person that also um built a lot more connection for me is a name called is a guy named David Lawi l A W just Google this guy okay you'll see that David Loi uh is Google's VP turned or sorry CMO
• 30:30 - 31:00 turned VP and in 2014 he created a company called Capital G capital G is Google or should I say Alphabets third third party private equity investment arm all they do is look at deals he was like an early investor in Airbnb uh multip multitudes of of massive deals and they managed over 7 billion dollars obviously this is like Google's investment arm and David Lawi together with open tensor foundation's co-founder
• 31:00 - 31:30 the other guy that I hadn't mentioned his name is Ala Shabbana who is a PhD from University of Waterlue them together created a company called Crucible Labs and all they also do is uh incubate and accelerate subnets and within Crucible Labs you know who uh also are figures uh within the the company there's a guy named named uh Seth Bloomberg and Sammy Cassab who were ex senior analysts at Misari Research
• 31:30 - 32:00 sammy Cassab actually coined the term deepen he's literally the guy who created the term deepen as we all know and so these guys are all in on Bitensor uh they completely gigabrains like they're the smartest people that you can think of and these guys are full on just only in Bitensor in the crypto sack so you know I think I think just all these different components that I've constructed in my brain like that's why I have so much conviction because you know we're only three four years this is
• 32:00 - 32:30 the fourth year of of uh Bit Tensor by the way uh and so this is why the having is coming and how I see it I'm not a trader like I said I just dollar cost average anytime there is a there's a dip I just buy it because I'm thinking a decade from now where is the world what is the world going to look like what is AI going to look like i have no idea what AI is going to look like i just think that from a first principal standpoint if I look at what Bitcoin showed us a truly well-coordinated incentivized network that is decentralized could become bigger than
• 32:30 - 33:00 any centralized counterparts makes a ton of sense thank you so much that was so um like well put thank you so I want to move on to um a different topic now al together because when I was um hanging out with you and Dan recently we had some really interesting discussions about the markets and macro and where we think it's going to go and I know you're super well read on that as well i mean
• 33:00 - 33:30 for the viewers I'm sure they can tell that you're well read in general like you dove deep in the rabbit hole for for Bit Tensor Tao um can you give us your general view on the markets because when we had this conversation like a week and a half or a week ago um you're like you thought the worst was over it turns out there was a little bit more worse things to come but now it's kind of back up again so definitely a lot of volatility in the markets a lot of uncertainty and news-based news driven stuff but what
• 33:30 - 34:00 are your views on the markets and macro right now for sure so I think it's impossible for anybody to say the the the low is in because I think the only person in the world who has that power is Trump literally whatever he says just spooks the market right so maybe the the maybe the macro is looking up this way but then maybe Trump will say something and it will just tank the market even more right so uh I'm not gonna I think I
• 34:00 - 34:30 can't I can't say that I know for sure because nobody knows anybody who says otherwise uh that's a red flag however I think with that being said from from what I'm seeing is that I think this cycle actually will most has a high probability of mirroring Trump 1.0 so if you remember in 2016 Trump got into office uh and in 2017 we had that big ICO runup right um but everything dictates on the business cycle it all
• 34:30 - 35:00 comes down to liquidity right and if you're looking at the business cycle the biggest the best indicator by the way this is according to Raul Pal uh in real vision okay this is not my work this is the stuff that I study uh but Raul Paul to to all his credit uh you know really showed the world uh this this macro concept at least that's where I learned it from and what I can share there is um the the business cycle essentially you can look at the the the PMI the
• 35:00 - 35:30 purchasing managers index okay and what that is is it is a survey that gets put out to the top supply management the top supply chain managers and it's a survey to ask them oh what's your outlook on the economy uh how are your orders looking uh what are the capital flows for the company uh all these different things construct into an index and this is they have one for the US they have one for China they have one for Europe so on so forth right all the major economies all have this survey uh and
• 35:30 - 36:00 the survey is an index of a number uh if it's over 60 that means the business cycle is peaking and that always correlates with the peak of of uh the crypto markets and actually it's not just crypto it's all assets if you extrapolate and you look at the the the PMI uh index which is just it's just like up down up down the cycle and if you look at the the equities performance and you look at crypto's performance they all mirror the same thing why because it's driven by liquidity when when the PMI is over 60 that means
• 36:00 - 36:30 there's a lot of confidence there's uh the economy is expanding people are getting a lot more orders they're spending money they're borrowing money that's actually the biggest indicator is that they're borrowing money maybe to buy inventory there's a lot more demand so on so forth so the global economy is healthy and expanding when the PMI is over 60 and that always correlates with the crypto markets peaking so in 2017 I think it was 2018 January that's when the PMI peaked right and then it kind of went back down uh and then the only
• 36:30 - 37:00 thing that threw everything off was COVID because COVID is uh is an external major event it's a black swan right so that threw everything off uh I think that made the business cycle peaked much earlier uh and then there was just a massive injection of liquidity and this is why you saw in March of 2020 when you had the major black swan crash and immediately followed by the greatest bull market we've ever seen why because central banks injected just a record
• 37:00 - 37:30 high amount of liquidity right we're in a global uh the whole world was shut down right why is everything ripping so hard it's because the central banks started to devalue the the currency like crazy this is why you had insane inflation and what happened in 2022 is that inflation got too out of hand and the Fed has the mandate to to curb inflation and so they had to start uh jacking up rates to slow down the economy and of course risk assets that's when the contracting happens and that's when PMI also fell down and now if you look at the current
• 37:30 - 38:00 PMI it's actually uh it's bottoming it's still in the bottom it's been it's been bottoming for a while and so there's a lot of speculation that um this is what Ra Pal was saying is that most likely what's going to happen is that the the the PMI will most likely peak again around anywhere from Q4 to Q1 of next year and interesting that's why PMI is a very crucial indicator to look because if it's over 60 then you should
• 38:00 - 38:30 proceed with caution and maybe take some money off the table that will be a a great indicator of a tough signal that's what I will be looking out um and yeah that's that's essentially in a nutshell is is what I'm really paying attention to and then of course this all this tariff talk with Trump uh actually the one of the the biggest things that that I'm reading now is that China might be one of the biggest liquidity providers of this cycle uh the the
• 38:30 - 39:00 uh like China essentially was saying that they're going to provide a lot of stimulus especially with Trump all the Trump tariff talks they're going to provide stimulus to try to offset all the volatility from the from the tariffs um and that's openly discussed i think this was news from last week and not just that the the um the the Federal Reserve I think it was the the Fed governor I think his name is Christopher Waller he also said that they're going to step in and and stabilize stabilize
• 39:00 - 39:30 the market if needed that is a term for we're going to print money and flood the market with liquidity don't worry uh we will come and save you and so um you know I think what I'm always doing is in times like these when there's panic when the market is in extreme fear I just buy this damn thing i don't even care because I know end of the year liquidity is going to be there's going to be so much liquidity that gets injected why because it's a mathematical certainty
• 39:30 - 40:00 they have to print money just to service the 37 trillion dollars of debt that the US government has everybody's on the same boat everybody's on the same boat you have to develop like there is not enough economic prosperity and and productivity to actually pay off this debt you need to print the money to actually come up with the money to pay this off what happens then you devalue the US dollar in fiat terms and so what happens when that happens i'm just repeating myself there but essentially
• 40:00 - 40:30 when that happens risk assets will moon especially fixed scarce supply assets like Bitcoin like Tao maybe TA right now has a bit high inflation but at the end of the day it's fixed there's only 21 million there's about shy of 10 million circulating supply there's only so much and when there's a massive liquidity injection a lot of this money will tend to go to that new shiny thing and I think Tao is that bet for sure
• 40:30 - 41:00 um so you're not really worried about like a recession or like just demand falling and things like that or you just think the worst is over essentially like with the I think there there there is no such thing as recession anymore because the government can just print the money to stimulate period this is what Ra Pal says he's like "We we don't have a recession anymore because if a recession quote unquote recession happens the government just has to print money to stimulate cut rates boom next thing you
• 41:00 - 41:30 know people are you know people are flooded with money there's liquidity there's prosperity again obviously this this tariff talk is spooking markets like crazy but you know I think I think Trump is you know he has his legacy to consider right and also midterms are coming next year you think he's going to he's going to be okay with the markets being in the gutter for another year and the midterms come along and Republicans will lo the vote because of what Trump did i don't think so no I I really don't think so yeah I agree with you so I I think it's all short-term noise and this is where winners win because when you
• 41:30 - 42:00 are able to look at the general the general view and you're and and if you see directionally that's where it's going then you position yourself accordingly and so I just keep buying and so I think uh my the game I'm playing I'm not a trader like I said i just my whole goal is how do I keep increasing my income how do I get more income to then buy these massive dips because over time everything crashes upwards yeah that makes sense you know and so you just you just place your bet on the winners again I'm not I'm not going into
• 42:00 - 42:30 micro caps crazy high risk i'm going in the leader of a certain sector uh and I just keep piling liquidity and the games accumulate accumulate accumulate and look and just look in a in a decade which by the way 10 years will fly by more quickly than you think in 10 years time you're going to be sitting on all this this crypto that's been compounding over time and I mean just think like 10 years ago if you all you did was buy Bitcoin and you just bought the dip every single time anytime there's a major crash you just keep buying no matter if in the short term you think "Oh is this going to be a recession or
• 42:30 - 43:00 like who cares just keep buying." That's that's my whole game plan yep that makes a lot of sense um and I think I mentioned and you mentioned as well in the beginning that you are one of the top reps of BitGet anyone who follows BitGet on X and tunes into the spaces will definitely have heard of you before um but that puts you in a really unique position because BitGet's a tier one exchange um has a
• 43:00 - 43:30 lot of retail focus right and you have a first first row seat into kind of the dynamics of retail in this market so what I want to ask you is um if you like just with that like position and your unique view on retail behavior retail activity do you have any predictions on the future of crypto um for example like you saw the memecoin hypewave front and
• 43:30 - 44:00 center and you were saying that a lot of times it felt like it was just fluff and like there's just they're just like oh it's community it's vibes blah blah blah um but then there was really nothing else more to sustain them and kind of meme coins are dead these days to be honest so like I don't know do you think they're going to come back or do you think it's going to be like NFTTS which never really did come back or just any general doesn't even have to be about memecoins like what are your general u
• 44:00 - 44:30 predictions about the future of of crypto and retail and so forth that's a uh it's a very interesting question excuse the uh the ambulance in the back but um uh I yeah really fascinating i think I really see a lot of like I said a lot of projects um you know so my my role at Bitscet is I was the social media host so all I did was I
• 44:30 - 45:00 I made a lot of content i host all of our spaces i still host our spaces um but uh you know it's been a good year bits gets got over a 100red million users i think when I joined we're actually at 10 million users dang uh and so we've 10x in the last two years of that that I've joined and uh it really has become a tier one exchange when I first joined actually I had never heard of BitGet when when I when they approached me i didn't even never heard about them um and it's crazy to see how how really BitGet is a a top player in
• 45:00 - 45:30 the space which is really exciting to be part of the growth it's been a fantastic job um but yeah like you said I I host spaces every week i have founders come on our space they pitch the project i get a firsthand uh view and I I hear the pitch and a lot of really exciting stuff but also the memecoin stuff for me it just really wasn't it wasn't it for me i I think we have to understand human psychology right in good times there's
• 45:30 - 46:00 going to be a lot of risk takingaking people will just go further and further out on the risk curve and memecoin is that right they're they're in it for this short short quick dopamine hit of like making 10x 100x within a few days right uh in and out kind of thing but as I'm sure majority of people playing memecoins probably 90 plus percent of people lose money right it's it's it's a it's a PVP game it's not a PVE game it's not where like the entire space will be elevated uh because of some sort of
• 46:00 - 46:30 disruptive tech or some sort of network adoption right and I think at the end of the day that's what will get adoption right is if you're really solving a specific problem or unless you're something like Dogecoin where you really built such a crazy community and you have people like Elon Musk backing it uh and it's the attention economy right yeah yeah but again it's 8020 like there's only a very select few projects that will become so scalable in size
• 46:30 - 47:00 that become successful majority of these projects will not succeed period right so I I think the memecoin I think memecoins will always be around again when like I really think by Q4 and Q1 of next year things are going to get really good again bitcoin is probably gonna go over 200k and then you know we're gonna the entire industry is oh we're in a Valhalla and then next thing you know pump that fun is revived and memecoin start going crazy again that's probably likely however with the with each
• 47:00 - 47:30 iteration people learn from from those past mistakes and experiences right so maybe retail got got burned on the last Beancoin cycle maybe on the next run up they're like I don't want to f with this maybe I'll just go and and buy stuff that actually has a better long-term utility who knows i don't know right but I think for me it's just I stay in my lane i find what I think has great value prop i think I just look for projects that I think will have great potential that will attract a lot of builders
• 47:30 - 48:00 because at the end of the day you want to go to projects where they're attracting builders period because that's where the the uh disrupting technology will come that's where the the innovation the iteration all those different things will come to the new attractive you know high value prop project that's kind of like where my mind is uh but I think what's really exciting is that this is the first year that the US government is fully behind crypto and we're going to see you're
• 48:00 - 48:30 going to see complete reform in the in the government on crypto regulations i mean this really is the first wave of super mainstream adoption right so super exciting i don't know what this space is going to look like i think it's impossible to predict these things especially with with AI i mean the the acceleration of AI is so mindboggling i don't even know what the future will look like in in five years not let alone in a decade right so um I think we just have to we just
• 48:30 - 49:00 have to keep learning keep reading and keep seeing what's out there what is uh gaining traction and just just know that you don't know anything right and you have to just keep learning because that's that's one humbling lesson that I've learned it's just before when I first got into crypto I have a specific kind of mindset and and and uh bias towards what I already know and then um the longer I'm in the market I'm like damn I really don't know anything i just got to keep learning and keep
• 49:00 - 49:30 figuring this out and just keep making moves where I think will best position me for the best outcome right and I I think that's true for everyone so for whoever's listening if there's one takeaway just just uh just keep your head up and keep learning and you'll figure it out sounds good well ch um that was all the really all the topics um I wanted to ask you about today was definitely a pleasure just diving deeper into its ecosystem that's bit tensor for those
• 49:30 - 50:00 watching also your views on macro your bullish views has got me pumped um can't wait for that to happen the latter half of this year um and then just your your unique position as one of the top reps of BitGet so do you have any final thoughts i know I dropped your ex profile so people can find you there and find your video on towel there but do you have any other closing thoughts before we wrap it up hey man again I'm just stoked to to be on here hanging out with you uh you're you're you're an
• 50:00 - 50:30 amazing creator and uh you do great work and that you're sharing with the world uh a way to level the playing field because I think us millennials right we've been through these once in a generation type events i think this is like we've had the financial crisis and then we had COVID and then and then you know is just hitting the fan right yeah and I I think crypto is just it's a tool and it is a it's a tool for you to to quickly make
• 50:30 - 51:00 money obviously with risk comes reward but I think that it is for you to you are negligent if you're not looking into crypto and like if you if you understand macro and you look at the business cycle and liquidity and and this is probably going to get a lot of controversy but I think I think diversification is because if if you can just bet on the fastest horse and then you can weather the storm and you can and if you can think long term and you just accumulate
• 51:00 - 51:30 the winners I think you're going to outperform most people who are looking to diversify uh you know into all these different assets and I think if you're if you're not you know in the seven eight figures what's the point of diversifying right you just want to focus your few bets concentrate them uh build so much conviction and spend a lot of time researching and and testing your your hypothesis and your theories to see if it stands true and if it doesn't then you got to pivot right away and then maybe and try something new i think that
• 51:30 - 52:00 is the way forward as a crypto investor but this is how you how you create generational wealth in a very short amount of time for me I've shared my experience i've been through the ups and downs i've made FU money i've also lost FU money now I'm trying to get back to FU money and you know it's just about accumulating and and staying on top of things and um I hope there's great takeaways from this conversation and my DM is open uh if you guys ever want to hit me up um I'm I'm all here and again Kevin thank you so much for for having me all right thank you so much CH and
• 52:00 - 52:30 everyone for tuning in we'll catch youall on the next one