ASIC closes the book on Bonza - Australian Aviation Podcast

Summary

The Australian Aviation Podcast recently discussed the closure of the book on Bonza's demise, following ASIC's decision to not take further action against its directors. The episode began with humorous banter between hosts Adam Thorne and Jake Nelson, highlighting some personal anecdotes. The podcast also covered news about QantasLink operating at Western Sydney Airport instead of Qantas domestic, Virgin's recent refund action for itinerary change fees, and the findings from the SeaWorld helicopter crash investigation. Additional stories included a 12-year-old boy's adventurous flight to Adelaide and Qantas marking 60 years of service to New Zealand.

Highlights

• ASIC closes its investigation into Bonza, freeing its directors from further legal scrutiny. 🔍
• QantasLink to start operations at the new Western Sydney Airport, not the mainline Qantas. 🚦
• Virgin's proactive refund move is a lesson in addressing past errors swiftly. ⌛
• Safety protocols evolve following the detailed investigation into the SeaWorld helicopter incident. 🚁
• A young adventurer's solo flight experience raises eyebrows and questions about travel policies. 🤔
• Celebrating six decades of Qantas' jet services between Australia and New Zealand, a journey of progress. 🌏

Key Takeaways

• ASIC decided not to pursue any action against Bonza's directors, providing some closure to the saga. 🎉
• QantasLink, not Qantas domestic, will be operating from Western Sydney Airport when it opens. ✈️
• Virgin Australia is refunding customers over incorrect itinerary change fees, showcasing accountability. 💸
• The SeaWorld helicopter crash was a result of unfortunate coincidences, prompting safety improvements. 🚁
• A clever 12-year-old managed to fly to Adelaide alone, stirring discussions on child travel rules. 👦
• Qantas celebrates 60 years since its first commercial jet service to New Zealand, a significant milestone. ✈️

Overview

The episode kicks off with Adam Thorne and his co-host Jake Nelson indulging in lively banter, complete with jokes about nonsensical topics and shoutouts to friends and colleagues. They set the tone for what is to come: a mix of mirth and aviation insights that delve into both serious and light-hearted matters.

In a significant segment, they discuss ASIC's decision regarding Bonza, explaining the context around the investigation and its conclusion. Jake's recent exclusives highlight major industry changes, like QantasLink taking the stage at Western Sydney Airport instead of the anticipated Qantas domestic. Virgin's honest admissions about overcharging customers draw parallels to past industry faux pas, showing a promising trend towards transparency.

The podcast doesn't shy away from human interest stories either. From a 12-year-old's adventurous solo flight to Adelaide to celebrating Qantas' historic service to New Zealand, these narratives provide a softer, engaging side to aviation news. They remind audiences of the colorful history and unexpected moments that define the aviation journey.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 03:00: Introduction and Aviator Nonsense Introduction to Australian Aviation Podcast: The episode opens with a brief overview of the podcast, highlighting its focus on examining the insights, developments, and issues affecting Australia’s aviation sector.
• 03:00 - 09:00: Shout-outs and Team Changes In this chapter titled 'Shout-outs and Team Changes,' the narrator humorously describes an oversight in not giving his colleague Emily a shout-out in a previous episode. He light-heartedly jokes about Emily being French and playfully criticizes her English. Moreover, he expresses appreciation for the thoughtful yet mischievous birthday present he received from her, which he finds to be the perfect kind.
• 09:00 - 13:00: Hayden McDonald and Wings Without Barriers The chapter likely describes a conversation or discussion revolving around a commemorative cup featuring Harry and Megan, possibly used as a symbol or point of critique regarding royal spending. The speaker refers to the cup, showing the moment Harry and Megan kissed at their wedding, as a gift they cherish despite its implications about public spending on royal events. The discourse seems to address broader issues of taxpayer expenditure on royal family activities.
• 13:00 - 16:00: Australian Aviation Awards The chapter discusses the financial aspects related to the presence of royals, mentioning that Australians enjoy the presence of royalty without bearing any financial burden. The speaker humorously suggests that Australians should contribute financially to the royal institution since they enjoy its benefits. This dialogue is then followed by a transition to another topic with shout outs, which are not detailed in the transcript.
• 16:00 - 20:00: Bonza's No Further Action Letters from ASIC This chapter discusses a person named Jordan the Great, who used to work as a video producer on the show. Before joining the team, Jordan claimed to be a professional athlete, which seemed dubious. Nonetheless, he had been involved in professional sports, playing either water polo or water volleyball for several years. Recently, Jordan has been working as a coach in his spare time, training young girls' teams.
• 20:00 - 25:00: Qantas and Western Sydney Airport Update The chapter discusses the national championships taking place in Western Australia (WA) and features a football team manager who is motivating his team. He delivered an inspirational speech to his team, encouraging them to enjoy and seize the moment they have prepared hard for. As of the recording, the tournament is currently underway.
• 25:00 - 27:00: Virgin's 61,000 Passenger Refunds The chapter discusses the inspiring story of a team that was at the bottom of the league, with no chance of success. They practiced in poor conditions, using a vacant lot that was set to be redeveloped into condos. Despite these challenges, someone named Jordan came along and made a significant impact on the team, overcoming personal challenges and helping to transform their situation.
• 27:00 - 35:00: SeaWorld Helicopter Crash Investigation The chapter 'SeaWorld Helicopter Crash Investigation' starts with discussing the journey of a team of girls who were previously at the bottom of their league. It highlights the influence of a key individual who motivated them to rise to the top by believing in themselves. The girls are now on the brink of the most important competition of their lives against a team labeled as the 'Snooty Rich Kids.' An intriguing element is introduced with the mention of a 'secret weapon'—a dog. The narrative humorously questions the rules of swim competitions, suggesting that there's no rule explicitly banning a dog from participating in a water polo match. The use of humor and the unexpected twist contribute to the engaging storyline of this chapter.
• 35:00 - 39:00: 12-year-old Flies to Adelaide Unaccompanied In this chapter titled "12-year-old Flies to Adelaide Unaccompanied," the narrative seems to touch on themes of unlikely allies and overcoming challenges. The story includes a dog playing water polo as part of a team, with their success potentially securing the preservation of their practice ground from being turned into condos by affluent adversaries. The chapter humorously suggests this scenario would be suitable for a Disney Plus release rather than a theatrical one. The focus shifts towards wishing good luck to the dog and a character named Jordan in their endeavors.
• 39:00 - 43:00: Qantas Marks 60 Years of Trans-Tasman Jet Service The chapter discusses Qantas celebrating 60 years of its trans-Tasman jet service. It mentions a sports competition held in challenging conditions where participants had to swim in dirt, highlighting the poor state of resources available. Furthermore, changes in the studio staff are noted, including the departure of Jordan the Great and the introduction of new crew members, Jacob Appending and a video/audio technician named Patty, who has just joined the team. The narrative hints at a casual studio environment with a tendency of giving nicknames to team members.

ASIC closes the book on Bonza - Australian Aviation Podcast Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 Australian Aviation Podcast. The official podcast of Australian Aviation, unpacking the latest insights, developments, and issues impacting Australia's aviation sector. Hello everybody, my name is Adam Thorne and welcome to the Australian Aviation Podcast. The show where we talk a little bit about aviation and a lot of nonsense. Joining me as ever is my co-host, the king of nonsense, Jake Nelson. Jake, how are you? I I'm not a
• 00:30 - 01:00 monarchist, Adam. I'd consider myself more of a president of nonsense. Well, actually, that's a good that's a good link here. Um because I got in trouble from my colleague Emily uh for not giving her a shout out on the last episode, so I'm going to do it here. She is French as the the name would suggest. I don't understand. We don't hold it against her. Well, I do. And I also don't understand a word she says because she doesn't speak the king's English properly. Anyway, she got me a birthday present which was both very thoughtful and quite vicious as well which I which is basically the best type of present for those of you watching on YouTube. I
• 01:00 - 01:30 will attempt to show you probably see it is a Harry and Megan commemorative cup like royal cup and it actually shows the moment they kissed at the royal wedding paid for I should say by my taxpayer my taxpayer pounds. Um this is a very thoughtful gift savage but I really like it and now I always drink my tea from this mug. Yeah, the Royals do a lot of uh do a lot of big events paid for by your taxpayer pounds, Adam. No, I mean because we don't want to get into details, but basically they make just so many things that the royals spend a whole bunch of money on that that
• 01:30 - 02:00 probably don't need a whole lot of money spent on it's you really need the royals. No, you they're your royals as well. But the worst thing is is that you get the the joy of them vote for them. You get the joy of them, but you obviously aren't paying anything for them. So that's why I think if anything, you should you should be forced to contribute. Listen, supreme executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not from some farical aquatic ceremony. Oh, shut up. Anyway, right, next uh next shower we're going to do. And I got another two shout outs. These are going to like work together. This is
• 02:00 - 02:30 really good. Do you remember that guy that used to work on the show Jordan the Great. Jordan the Great. We Jordan the Great. So, he was obviously he worked with us as like a kind of video producer. Um, but before that, he used to say he was a professional athlete. That was rubbish. He was he was a he was a professional sportsman and he played water polo or water volleyball or whatever it was. Um and so he he he did that for years. I mean he left that to come to come work here. Um but he has recently been moonlighting as a coach and he coaches like you know young girls and this team that he coaches this week
• 02:30 - 03:00 they are having like the national championships in WA. So he's taken the team to WA to so he's like it's like a football team. He's like the manager, right? And I saw him for coffee last week and he was telling me how he did this like inspirational speech to them and it was like, you know, it was like trying to rally them up like this is the biggest moment of your lives. You prepared really hard. Make sure you enjoy it. All that kind of stuff. So the tournament I think is currently ongoing at the moment as we record this. Almost
• 03:00 - 03:30 certainly by the time this comes out they probably would have been knocked out and failed because I Yeah, but they could still be in it. So, if you are, and he does actually watch every episode. If you are watching Miss Jordan the Great, um, best of luck with this, you know. Um, it's a really inspiring story cuz they were the bottom team in the league. They had no chance, you know, raggedy old uniforms, right? They were they were practicing in like a vacant lot. Um, and that vacant lot was going to be, you know, turned into condos. So, you know, what can you do? But Jordan came along. He he he came along. He overcame his crippling
• 03:30 - 04:00 alcoholism. And he he brought these girls from the from from from from the bottom of the league right to the top. He he brought them together as a team and told them to believe in themselves. And now this is the the the greatest moment of their lives. You know, they're going to be facing off against the Snoody Rich Kid team. And uh they do have, I believe, a secret weapon um which is a dog. Um because ain't no rule that says that a dog can't play. Can you have a dog in a swim? Because this will be at swimming pools. Can you have like Ain't no rule says a dog can't play water polo, Adam.
• 04:00 - 04:30 Um it's like I don't see it in the rule book. So they've got the dog and the dog will be playing water polo with them and with any luck um water bud will help them win the tournament and save their uh save their practice ground from being turned into into condos by the snoody rich kids. Obviously be a really good like Disney Plus movie. I don't think you release it in cinemas, but you get it on the get on the streaming service. Um yeah. Well, to um to the dog and to Jordan, best of luck in your um in your
• 04:30 - 05:00 water polar competition. And I will find out how they did and I'll do an update next week. On that note, yeah, it's a vacant lot. It's not even a pool. They have to swim in the dirt. That's that's how badly off they are, right? Yeah. Anyway, so we got rid of Well, we got rid of Jordan the Great left and then we we've we've had a number of replacements. We've um got Jacob Appending. Um as people know, all of the people that work on this show in some capacity, they're given nicknames. We now today have a new video audio person, Paddyy. Patty's in the studio right now. Patty doesn't know where we were going to do this shout out. Literally only
• 05:00 - 05:30 said about two things to him, so he probably think this is pretty weird. Um, but we got a new member of a of a team. Welcome to the team. Have you got a nickname for Patty? Don't start. This is how we got Jacob the pending. Yeah, I know that was funny. But you can't you can have a week's grace, right? But we can't have two. Adam, Adam, you're trying to force it again. You're trying to force it again. And you know what happens when you try to force it? You get Jacob the pending. Don't try to force it. Yeah. Okay. happens organically. Um anyway, welcome to the show and we will have you a nickname by next week. Um have we got any Have I got any more shouts? You've got you've actually got shout outs, haven't you?
• 05:30 - 06:00 You've got very good ones. Do you remember Adam uh Hayden McDonald, the the young autistic pilot who did this epic circumnavigation of Australia um more than a year ago now uh in his Jabaroo J120 um in order to uh uh educate people on autism and campaign for greater fairness and inclusion for for for people on the the autism spectrum and for neurody divergent people in aviation um through uh his his uh organization Wings Without Barriers. Now, Hayden has moved to Sydney. Um, and
• 06:00 - 06:30 he reached out to us saying, uh, he's got we we have a a significant fleet of aircraft models here. Um, and Hayden reached out to us, um, saying, uh, could I loan you one of my custommade models for about 6 months. He said he's just moved to New South Wales. He doesn't have enough space. He's looking for a bigger apartment um, too sentimental to sell, and he thinks it would serve a better purpose being displayed in the studio. Um, so we said, "Yes, absolutely. We'd love to have your model in the studio. Uh this is it. It's
• 06:30 - 07:00 really good as well. Excellent model. Uh made by uh Factory Direct Models. Um and it is a Jabaru J120, a light uh sports aircraft. Um like the one that Hayden used to fly around Australia. We've got a note from from Hayden as well. Um he says it's a it's it's a light sport aircraft that's built in Australia. It's almost a onetoone replica of the livery I fly and the cockpit 2. He says, "I hope it will make the dark and gloomy studio a bit brighter and keep the vents
• 07:00 - 07:30 clean." Well, that's really kind, Hayden. Thank you very much. That was a really thoughtful, nice thing to do. Um, you actually did a podcast with Hayden. You did a couple of podcasts, actually. Yes, we did two podcasts with Hayden. Um, one before he left and one after he came back, um, and we did a feature in the Australian Aviation Magazine um, several issues ago. Um, Hayden has his own YouTube channel. Um, so Google Wings Without Barriers, you will find Hayden's website and his YouTube channel. Um the logo of course for Wings Without Barriers also is here for those watching on YouTube. Um shout out to Hayden. We
• 07:30 - 08:00 will take very good care of this model um until you are ready to reclaim it. Um and the gigantic case that it came in. It was very big. It was very large. Yeah. And it just turned up at the office. It was I was able to to achieve my dream of dramatically turning two separate locks on a case, flipping it up and opening it. Yeah. Yeah. And as a man of of of of musical theater, that's the sort of thing you would you would Yeah. do very very well. Yeah. Know, thank you very much for that. Have we got any other shout outs or should we steam into news? Oh, no, we do. Sorry, I just
• 08:00 - 08:30 interrupted you. We do because we need to talk about I need to look at the camera for this. The Australian Aviation Awards. So, they very important. They are launching on Tuesday. So, we've obviously got the long weekend. So, same deal as we've done uh the years before. If you are an individual or you're an organization, you can enter um go on our website and it's got the full list or we'll do on on Tuesday the full list of like categories that um you can get involved in. Really really worth um having a go and as I always say like my
• 08:30 - 09:00 my tip to you is the more effort you can put into your entry the better because it's not like the Oscars like we we have we weren't with you for your entire career. We can't know the ins and outs. So we're relying on you giving as much detail as possible, as much evidence as possible. Um but yeah, if you want to go and look on Tuesday, if you if you if you look on Tuesday, even you've got weeks or months or whatever it is to get all your application stuff ready, um it all culminates in a fancy pants flashy black tie dinner um in Sydney a few months later. So, it's well worth um
• 09:00 - 09:30 entering. Um it's well worth coming along. If you yourself don't want to enter personally, you can nominate somebody else. And basically what this means is if you nominate somebody, they get sent an email that says that somebody's like somebody's nominated you. Um, so if you think there's anybody that you think is a worthy um candidate, go and do that. But we would love to have you enter. We'd love to have you along. It is a really really good night. And it's weird because it's an industry that's so spread out around the country. There aren't that many opportunities for everyone to kind of get together and celebrate. So it is a really really cool thing to do. What are some of the the the big categories? Like we've got ones
• 09:30 - 10:00 for like pilots, we've got one for organizations. Um, pretty much every single role in aviation there will be a category you can enter. And obviously you can enter multiple categories as well. So it might be the case that you want to enter like the rising star or the older category or the young aviator of the year. Yeah, exactly. So there's a multiple categories you can enter as well for yourself, for your team. Um we tinker with the the categories a little bit each year, but it'll be broadly the same as last year. So go in there. You can have a look at the terms and conditions and everything. Get stuck in. Right. Yeah. Let's should we steam into
• 10:00 - 10:30 the news? We should. We should steam into the news. Let's steam into the news. Now I would say that Jake can come across as a blizzthering idiot. However, secretly and often does and often does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jenny from HR, if you can't even have a go at me cuz he's back me up. However, annoyingly, he is incredibly talented and Jake got two phenomenal um exclusives in two days. Um two of the biggest stories of the year in the industry. He is exceptionally talented journalist. Um these actually probably have been two of the biggest
• 10:30 - 11:00 stories of the last few weeks as well. Um we're going to start off by talking about a big development at Bonsza. So obviously as everybody know um Bonsza went under last year um after it was only going for light in just over a year. There was a lot of controversy in terms of in terms of its demise because essentially it's backers trip 7 partners effectively stopped giving the money and this is what caused a kind of a spiral of events where things went wrong and it culminated in mis day when the airport lessers effectively reclaimed the
• 11:00 - 11:30 aircraft. So Bons have found itself as an airline without any aircraft in a click of the finger um which obviously caused lots of problems for um for for passengers there. They weren't able to turn the situation around. Now, previously the um in the kind of liquidators report um or the administrator's report, they basically said that you know there was some evidence or they thought there was there's evidence of potential kind of failed play by the directors which could have potentially included the Australian directors and it could include US
• 11:30 - 12:00 directors and so we have had a big development on that. Jake, take it away. Yeah. So, ASICH, the corporate regulator, uh confirmed to us um so we got this we got this news first. I think the ABC picked it up afterwards. Um but they have confirmed that uh Bonsza's Australian and US-based directors have been sent uh what are called no further action letters. And so what this means is that essentially uh ASICH will not proceed to any
• 12:00 - 12:30 enforcement action against them. um they are for the moment at least closing the book and drawing a line under the whole thing. Um now asex says and this is kind of boilerplate but asex says that this is not a finding that that there was no wrongdoing. Um what it is is they don't have enough evidence to suggest that there was wrongdoing or at least not enough evidence to make pursuing this
• 12:30 - 13:00 worthwhile. So um it whether that whether or not there was wrong there was wrongdoing doesn't matter at this stage unless there is new evidence. Uh ASICH is not going after the directors. And I I would say that I'm I'm I'm really pleased with this in the sense that it means that the you know um the two um kind of Australian directors at Bonsza to an extent that they can draw a line under this and kind of get on with their lives and get on with their careers. And I would say that I did feel I don't want to even say incredibly sorry, but I
• 13:00 - 13:30 really did feel for Tim Jordan as CEO um who was always very gracious um with his time with us, always very open and honest. There's very little nonsense. Um I think Bonsza as an idea was exceptional. Um and I think that actually it worked a lot better than the critics gave it, you know, the critics said after it went under. Um, one of the sort of major problems is or or the biggest problem is is that they were being effectively underwritten by trip 7 partners and they needed to be underwritten for trip 7 partners probably for at least another six months. And that doesn't necessarily mean they had a bad business plan, but
• 13:30 - 14:00 obviously when you launch an airline, you need to grow your fleet. That takes a lot of time. You need to grow your brand. So, it was never going to be the case that they were going to launch and instantly be making a lot of money. It was always going to be the case it was going to take a couple of years for them to find their feet. And kind of what happened is the backers sort of pulled out before they got to that point. Now a lot of people in the industry might say well they were always doomed. It was a it was a terrible idea. But I think the evidence we saw was actually it was a good idea that they were getting passes on that that on that on those aircraft. And also it was a different idea for
• 14:00 - 14:30 people that are unaware. The kind of a concept was it was what they called like pointto-point travel. So effectively it meant you either fly from a holiday destination to a holiday destination or you fly from a capital city airport to a holiday destination in another state. Um so these were unusual routes and the majority of their routes were never flown before. So they were attracting new customers and new business effectively to the aviation sector that just wasn't there before. Um this idea has worked quite a lot. I think you know
• 14:30 - 15:00 you you obviously get it in the US, you effectively get it in Europe as well. Um, everybody said for years and years and years it would never work in Australia. I think they were beginning to make that work and it is a crying shame that they went under because we've lost those roots. We've lost those that that business. There's been a couple of roots that have been picked up by Jet Star. Um, but uh, you know, a lot of those Bonsza roots have gone and have not yet come back. Um, now Tim uh Jordan, the CEO of Bonsza, did give a statement to the ABC um, after our story broke. Um the the
• 15:00 - 15:30 ABC sort of also picked that up. Um Tim said in his statement, quote, "While the recent news from ASICH of no further action is certainly welcome, it doesn't unfortunately change the sad outcome of Bonsa's demise in late April of last year or the subsequent negative impacts on communities, customers, suppliers, and the former Bonsza team." Yeah, exactly. And I would say that when this all happened and when this all sort of uh Bonsza kind of effectively started to go under when they had their aircraft um uh sort of taken off them um he was
• 15:30 - 16:00 the one that fronted up. He was the one that fronted up um and spoke to all of the employees. He was the one that took that flack. You could make a very good argument in terms of aortioning blame. It was Trip 7 Partners who whatever the legalities of it, but it was Triple 7 Partners that that made I would say those bad business decisions. They um I don't believe have even released any real kind of public statement at all. And it was the the administrators Hall Chadwick um did point out in their report to the creditors that uh Tim
• 16:00 - 16:30 Jordan and the CFO Lydia Valenweather, the two Australianbased directors were had had were fully cooperating with the administrators um and had and and were helping the administrators whereas the US-based directors were not. Yeah. And it it it comes across from the outside and we don't know the ins and outs of it. It comes across that they didn't really care at all. Um but you know, credit to to Tim, credit to that that Bonsza team. I think they were genuinely good people. They were genuinely trying to do something good. And it's it's a difficult thing to go through because um you you must have imagined that Tim has
• 16:30 - 17:00 had this kind of year from how because this has all happened kind of outside of his knowledge. Like one day you're the CEO of an airline, it's your idea, this is your baby, the next minute you've lost everything. they had this ASICH investigation or whatever kind of hanging over them. At least now there's an element that he can can kind of get on with his life and draw a line under it because I know that they have to have a dual process, but these things they linger on and on and on and it's not it's not fair that him and and and a lot of those people at Bonsai their lives were kind of in, you know, in a freeze.
• 17:00 - 17:30 So, I'm glad for him. And from what we've heard from our sources, um, and this includes, um, we we we covered this last year, uh, uh, the maintenance and repair, um, company that was servicing Bonsza. Um, and we've heard from, you know, other sources that that sort of had knowledge of all this. Um, that, uh, Bonsza was this close apparently to getting an Australian buyer, getting out from under 7 Partners, and being able to continue on. So if if if it had been just a little longer, then then the
• 17:30 - 18:00 problem would have solved itself. And I mean, as well, if it had just been a little longer, like a couple of months, you know, you really have to feel for Bonsa, you know, goes Bonsa gets his planes taken off in what was at the end of April. Um what? Not not 3 months later, bang, down goes Rex. Yeah. And suddenly they're swimming in 737s. There's 10 737s to spare. that would have like more than doubled their fleet. Yeah, it was very
• 18:00 - 18:30 unfortunate. I think the thing that that kind of annoys me is that the media narrative and the mainstream media was this was a terrible idea. It would it would never work. I think that's rubbish. The information we had from our sources from Bonsza as well was that this was rubbish. And I kind of feel that the story is wrong and it's almost a sad ending. Whether it would ever happen, I don't know. But I would love to see Tim come back with Bonsza or come back and try again or somebody else do this because I think they proved a lot of people wrong and it's always a shame for an industry when this happens. We've
• 18:30 - 19:00 spoken a lot on the show as well about how the AC have said you know rather obviously maybe but the more competition you have the better. The more airlines you have on a route the more prices go down the more it helps the whole industry. To have lost you know two effectively two out of our four airlines is is you know has been a disaster. So, we spoke there a little bit of the first of two. Uh, two, the first two. The first of two. Jake. Yeah, I got there. Of Jake's exclusives. Um, he's had another one as well. Jake, talk us a little bit about what else you've got this week. Yeah, so this uh came to us
• 19:00 - 19:30 originally through the uh Australian Services Union. They put out a press release um end of last week uh basically criticizing Quantis for looking to outsource its baggage handling at the new Western Sydney airport. Um, now that's not the the the story. That was a that was a press release. We did cover that. But while I was looking into this, um, I got a statement from from from Quantis and um, it mentioned in the statement, you know, Quantis Link and Jet Star will be operating from, um,
• 19:30 - 20:00 from Western Sydney airport at launch. Um, and that kind of made me think now hang on, Quantis Link. Uh because when back in 2023 there was this big announcement made that Quantis and Jetstar would be the first two airlines operating out of Western Sydney airport. And I went back and checked and it did say Quantis. Uh but it was confirmed to me by Quantis um that it would not be Quantis domestic that is la that is launching out of Western Sydney airport.
• 20:00 - 20:30 It is Quantis link the regional arm. And I think uh it's it later got uh revealed to Executive Traveler as well that uh this would be using Quantislink E190s apparently out of Western Sydney. Um and so uh we I I I went I went and I covered this. Um what Quantis has basically the the Quantis kind of policy or the or the Quantis um tactic is uh that when they
• 20:30 - 21:00 say Quantis often times they are talking in general about all of these QF coded um red tail services which includes both Quantis domestic and Quantis link and so uh what they've said to us is um we it was always when we said Quantis we meant Red Tail that includes Quantis Link as well. It will be Quantis Link and Jet Star initially operating out of Western Sydney. Um Quantis domestic to possibly
• 21:00 - 21:30 come later. I you can imagine it would come later. Yeah. And I don't want to be too mean to them because probably and who knows what the the the actual truth is but I would imagine when they made that announcement um they said Quantas and they didn't necessarily know what the makeup would be. So I don't want to sort of accuse them of like trying to be incredibly sly but nonetheless if you say it's Quantis and Jet Star people will rightly or wrongly assume that means Quantis domestic. So that it's initially going to be Quantis link is a very different offering now and again we
• 21:30 - 22:00 don't know and in fact Quantis don't necessarily know now exactly what the makeup that will be what routes they offer and what aircraft they will fly but I think what we can say pretty much for certain that's going to mean smaller aircraft. It doesn't mean they're sort of larger 737s. It's likely A321 XLR. Yeah, exactly. Um, and it's likely to mean that Quantis itself in terms of the main brand will not be flying a capital city to capital city major routes. These are going to be Quantis link style
• 22:00 - 22:30 routes. So, effectively a capital city to a smaller destination. Now, that could be, for example, the Gold Coast. Yeah, exactly. And and of course there's nothing there's no reason that perhaps they couldn't you know use a larger aircraft or you know operate one of those kind of traditional routes even though it is a bit more unlikely. Now nonetheless though it is still a blow to Western Sydney. They will have Jet Star as well. But nonetheless to launch a new air a new airport the first big international airport in Australia and god knows how long and not have your
• 22:30 - 23:00 flag carrier their main brand there is a is a blow to them. Now, I imagine over time that will be sorted out, but nonetheless, there's no dressing up. That is that is going to be a bit of a blow. We're still a long way. We're still at 18 months or so off it um off it opening. Um at the moment, this is a story that only the industry will talk about. But nonetheless, it will be a story in 18 months time. People will say, why can't we get Quantis domestic flights to Western Sydney? So, it is going to be a bit of a blow to that. It does it does it not that's not a great
• 23:00 - 23:30 narrative for them. Yeah. Back in now back in 23 Quantis said it Quantis Group said that it was planned to operate up to 15 narrowbody aircraft which would be 10 Jet Star and five Quantis planes. So we can presume that these Jet Star planes will be the A320s or you know the A320 Neos or the A321 um that the whole A320 family over there. Um, with the Quantis planes, uh, from what executive traveler uh, seems to have, uh, been been told by Quantis, it would be, uh,
• 23:30 - 24:00 Embraa E190s. So, that would seem to be the makeup at the moment. Now, Quantis Freight will also be operating from Western Sydney airport. Um, and you will have uh, Singapore Airlines as an international carrier. They will be flying into Western Sydney. one presumes that that Virgin Australia will sign on at some point between now and when the airport opens because it would be a big market for Virgin Australia. Um nothing out out of Virgin on Western Sydney yet,
• 24:00 - 24:30 but you can assume that they will that if they are not already in talks, they will be. Yeah, you would assume that they would be there. Um the kind of the complication is is obviously if you want to launch new routes, you need more aircraft or you need to take aircraft from somewhere else. that will be the kind of juggling act. Um, as well, nobody really knows how how much demand or not we will have for Western Sydney, particularly at first. It's going to be a bit of a staggered start. I'm sure the fancy pants um, you know, number crunches at the airlines are kind of making guesses, but having it with it
• 24:30 - 25:00 not existing yet, they're only going to be able to guess. So, I think what you probably will see is that I think you will have Virgin um, there very very early on. Um I reckon it's going to be a similar almost to a bond situation and that you will see roots chop and change quite a lot until people work out how they're going to be able to make this work. Um but nonetheless, yeah, it is a big big news. Look uh and and we we've we've got an idea that um presumably Jet Star will be flying Melbourne uh and Brisbane. Um we don't the Gold Coast was
• 25:00 - 25:30 also mentioned back in 2023 as a destination for Quantis Group. Not sure if Gold Coast would be Quantis Link or if it would be Jet Star or if it would be both. Um, and I suppose there would also be nothing stopping Quantis Link from going to Melbourne and Brisbane with its E190s. So, uh, we will have to see. Um, but that's that's this that's that's the this the situation. Um, it will be Quantis Link flying out of Western Sydney when the airport opens, not Quantis domestic. And yeah, and of course you heard that from Australian
• 25:30 - 26:00 Aviation First. Simple flight. I I I presume that Quantis International would also want to go out of Western Sydney. Yeah. Yeah. All right. What are we going to chat about next? Um, on the subject of Virgin, um, bit of a snafu, uh, as far as they snafu, a snafu, situation normal, all effed up. Um, is actually what it sounds. That's what it stands for. Yeah, a bit of a snafu. Bit of a bit of a boo boo. Um, Virgin uh has announced that it is uh refunding around
• 26:00 - 26:30 61,000 passengers uh for essentially the getting their re their itinerary change fees wrong. Um there was uh this was between this is in some instances between 21st of April 2020 and 31st of March 2025. It was only about.1% of bookings made during that period. Um so what happened was there was some technical issues in relevant systems that that you know determined uh
• 26:30 - 27:00 booking change fees and as a result customers were overcharged and they will be getting refunds averaging about $55. And Virgin has you know turned all this over to Deote. Um you know Deote will be handling the claims process. Um claims will be open for up to 12 months. uh amounts that guests elect not to claim will be donated to charity. Um they they Virgin says, "Look, we told the AC proactively, we're going to work with the AC on anything else that is needed.
• 27:00 - 27:30 We are very sorry." Yeah. And I would say that the kind of the way they've handled this is is very good. I remember the I think I heard about this because the Sydney Morning Herald like sent out a notification as if this was some kind of big scandal. I don't think that's very fair. Clearly, it does seem to me that there was an honest mistake. You know, I can barely use my laptop. something's gone wrong with the technology somewhere. Um, and they've they've they've found this out, they've worked it out, they put their hands up, they're reimbursing people, they've kind of used Deote, so there's an element of independence there or they're going a bit of a third party to help. So, I kind
• 27:30 - 28:00 of think they've handled that very well. You compare that and they would obviously been influenced by this, but there's kind of similar situation that Quantis had with these kind of ghost flights, which they didn't in any way handle anywhere near as well. So, I kind of think Virgin have looked at that and there, you know, lessons have been learned. Um, but nonetheless, it's quite good if you get like $50 in your bank account or whatever. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, it's it's and and as you say, Adam, honest mistake and they have gotten out on the front foot and, you know, made the effort here. So, um, you
• 28:00 - 28:30 know, slap on the wrist for making the mistake in in the first place, but u good job Virgin for moving so quickly to fix it. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Um, right, we're going to talk about next. Um, so we had from the ATSB, Adam, over the past week the final report into the SeaWorld helicopter crash in January 2023. Um, and that has ba what that basically found was that there was this perfect storm of things that we use there is an
• 28:30 - 29:00 analogy used of like slices of Swiss cheese. um and the holes in the Swiss cheese, you know, appear in different places and if all the holes line up in exactly the wrong way, then you have an accident. Yeah. So, in aviation effectively, the the concept is that they have backup after backup after backup after backup. So, it's not just that they don't want incidents to happen in the first place. They're almost actively planning for an incident and what's going to be the, you know, the fail safe and then what's the fail safe after that. And that is the reason why aviation is so safe in the most general
• 29:00 - 29:30 sense. Most aircraft can fly perfectly well with one engine. In fact, they can fly perfectly well with no engines. They can glide. So that's a whole mentality of the industry. And so effectively what this report is said is a very unfortunate set of things happened that kind of perfectly lined up and caused this. Yeah. So some of the there were 28 findings from this uh ATSB report. Um first so firstly there was uh the operator kind of SeaWorld helicopters they made changes in the months beforehand to improve the tourism
• 29:30 - 30:00 product. So they commissioned the use of a second helipad location or the park pad. Um they brought in these new EC130 helicopters that the the kind that was involved in the accident. They brought in new hanger and office facilities. Now according to the ATSB over time all of these changes undermined the risk controls that they used to manage the separation between their helicopters. Um and they created a a what what the Angus Mitchell the chief commissioner described as a conflict
• 30:00 - 30:30 point between launching and departing helicopters which is where they collided. So that the safety management system according to the ATSB did not effectively manage the risks that were present in the operation and when numerous changes were introduced uh processes were not implemented to consider whether they would affect overall safety. So that's the first thing that went wrong is that the operator brought in all these changes to make the tourism product better but did not adequately consider the safety risks. Now on the day
• 30:30 - 31:00 um there was a a problem with with the with the radio on uh VHXQ which was the uh the the outbound helicopter the departing helicopter. So what h so what happens what happens on the day before we get to that radio is VHXH9 the elevated the uh helicopter that was coming in they radio ahead but
• 31:00 - 31:30 VHXKQ was loading passengers at the time and did not register the call. Um, now an ATS the ATSB says that a member of the ground crew said uh, you're clear to take off. But by the time uh, XKQ took off more than 20 seconds later, this advice was no longer accurate as XH9 was coming in to land. Um, there was also a problem with visibility. There was restrictions on maneuvering at the park
• 31:30 - 32:00 pad and the angles of closure of these two helicopters limited the visibility um for the departing pilot to identify the helicopter that was coming in. And um uh Michael James who was the pilot of the helicopter who that survived the crash crash did mention as well he did not see that the other helicopter was taking off. And there was a visibility study that the ATSB conducted and found that both pilots would have had a limited view of each other in the leadup to the collision. Now, there was an a
• 32:00 - 32:30 place a system of radio calls and hand signals and visibility devices that was that should have alerted pilots that another helicopter was coming, but that system had significant flaws flaws. In addition, in we bring the radio antenna. Apparently, there was a defective radio uh that the radio antenna on uh VA VHX KKKQ, the departing helicopter, was faulty. And so, um while the while a a taxing call may have been made, it was
• 32:30 - 33:00 not broadcast. And so the P and so Michael James, the incoming pilot, um who was focusing on the landing site, um did not have any cause to reassess, you know, this helicopter is taking off and is a collision risk. So what the ATSB has said um and this is from Angus Mitchell quote this dependency highlights that aviation operations should have multiple safety defenses in place and not be vulnerable to single points of failure such as faulty radios or a pilot's ability to detect another
• 33:00 - 33:30 helicopter in a visually constrained environment. So essentially what the ATSB has said is a string of things went wrong and all of those things lined up to cause this crash. Yeah. And it was very unfortunate and it was a very tragic incident. Obviously, it was it was tragic for the people that died, but also because this happened effectively on on the kind of the main Gold Coast beach, right? There would have been an awful lot of families that would have seen this happen as well. So, it was obviously a very distressing thing for everybody involved in it. And to and to be clear, the ATSB here absolutely now
• 33:30 - 34:00 the the the name of the pilot that was coming in, Michael James, is known, but the ATSB has praised him uh in the past for saying that his remarkable maneuver meant that a far worse situation was averted. So, um, he his his helicopter, uh, he survived the accident and I think all of the the people on board his helicopter survived the accident. The people on the other helicopter were killed. There were injuries on his helicopter, but the but the life loss of life was averted went on on his one. Um, and four of those uh, surviving passengers on his helicopter um,
• 34:00 - 34:30 released a statement hailing him as a hero. He tragically passed away last year in June from cancer. Um so Michael James uh prevented a much much worse loss of life. Um now and according to the ATSB by the way SeaWorld helicopters has since taken a number of safety actions following the disaster. Uh the introduction of a pad boss which is a new ground staff position to provide pilots with traffic advisory information. Um a map display in the helicopters to display the positional information of other aircraft using ADSB
• 34:30 - 35:00 in new radio call protocols. uh fitting the helicopters with strobe lighting and high vis visibility paint on the main rotor blades to make them easier to see. Um and it's there's there's an old saw in aviation Adam which says that every accident makes aviation safer and you know these these measures that that have been brought in now kind of go towards that accident should never happen but every time there is an accident the work of investigators like the ATSB or the
• 35:00 - 35:30 NTSB over in the states or any other investigator around the world make sure that the next accident either does not happen or is not nearly as bad as it could have been. Yeah, exactly. So, the ATSB who are our kind of air crash investigators effectively, they have this sort of philosophy that almost like a no blame report. It's not a court. They're not saying this person did something wrong or that person did something wrong. The entire point of doing this is to prevent accidents happening in the future. It also like when you when you hear what was it 28 recommendations or 28 kind of 28 28
• 35:30 - 36:00 findings, right? People I almost think people don't understand the amount of time and effort that goes into these reports. You know, this would have been like two and a half years or something in the making. Was it was it two just two and a Yeah. Yeah. It's been it's been about So it was January 2023. It's been so two and a bit years whatever um in the making. This would have been a team of people that have kind of you know um gone into excruciating levels of detail in order to find out exactly what happened. And it wouldn't have been easy as well. The people that work for the ATSB are so insanely talented because they have to have a knowledge of of of
• 36:00 - 36:30 of flying. They have to have a knowledge of human factors. They have to have a knowledge of the mechanics of an aircraft. They have to have all of this breadth of knowledge and they're extremely yeah extremely talented people. The reports they produce, some of them go on, they're hundreds of pages. They go on and on into meticulous levels of detail, but the work they do is really really important because the findings they make, like you said there, will make things a lot safer. Well, this was a bit of an odd story that came out of Western Australia. Um, it would be out there. Yeah, it would be uh lovely
• 36:30 - 37:00 place. Western Australia was there earlier this year. Um, but a 12-year-old boy somehow managed to purchase a Jet Star ticket to Adelaide in January. Uh, and then, um, uh, last week, I think, disappeared from his home in West Leader in in Leaderville. Um, and turned up safe and well in Adelaide. Why he wanted to go to Adelaide, I'm not sure. Ouch. Um well, we we don't know his motives,
• 37:00 - 37:30 Adam, but uh apparently this kid did he got a he got a Jet Star ticket, showed up at the airport. Um he had all of the relevant documentation he needed to fly um as a young pass person traveling traveling alone. Um and so he was let on board the plane and flew to Adelaide. So the the controversy from the mainstream kind of media on this is, you know, how could this ever happen? how could a you know a young kid uh do this? But actually it's not it's not without
• 37:30 - 38:00 precedent that these things happen. Um am I am I right in saying that there are actually series of rules that mean that young people can travel on their own. Um I think Jet Star's argument is that they they wouldn't necessarily have known and all of the kind of the the the regulations or the law the not near laws but everything was kind of followed. Yeah. All of all of Jet Star's policies um were he had the documentation that he needed. You know, for a young passenger 12 years or over um you know, you need to prove your age. You need to that that is that can be proof of enrollment in
• 38:00 - 38:30 secondary school. Um you know, anyone 12 years and over is generally required to be enrolled in secondary school. So he he had the correct documentation. You know, he was well on the ball this kid. That's what I like. All 12-year-olds can travel independently on domestic flights provided they can show that they are attending or enrolled in secondary school. They don't need a parent or guard guardian to be present to check in as long as they have all of the documentation. This is for domestic flights. Now, when a minor looks to board an international flight, yes, a
• 38:30 - 39:00 parent or guardian does need to be present. Um, now if no parent or guardian is present at check-in, and the staff has reason to believe the young passenger may not have permission for a parent or guardian to travel alone, the young passenger may be refused check-in on an international flight until permission to travel alone can be confirmed. Um, and Jet Star says, as you say, thousands of young people travel on the flights every year under the YPTA policy, um, which is the same as those of other airlines, including uh, Virgin. Yeah. I mean, but the thing is on the surface when you kind of first hear about it, you think, "Oh, that's
• 39:00 - 39:30 shocking. this young person got a flight but you know we're a continent country you know if if he'd have got you know a bus or a coach or a train there wouldn't be the kind of uproar it's a continent country people need to travel all the time there may be situations say I mean I'm I'm not saying this is the case maybe you have a divorced um couple and they have a son and one lives in one city and one lives in another city it would be absurd for them to have somebody you know an adult with them for this you know obviously they need to be able to do this also he was 12 like he's
• 39:30 - 40:00 not This is not like a four-year-old. 12-y olds are perfectly capable of doing this. So, there's this kind of almost like this sort of outrage, but nonetheless, these things, you know, this is, like I say, is a very common thing. It would also be slightly wrong if you were to take away that right of young people to um be able to travel on their own. What I love more about the kind of ratlike cunning of this young lad, he's right, so he's gone, he's worked out what all the rules are, he's got all the right documentation, snuck up onto the flight. Um, what a legend. I
• 40:00 - 40:30 love this. Yeah. No, I'm more impressed than anything. It's that's uh not to encourage that kind of behavior, but uh that is impressive. Yeah, Jet Star did nothing wrong. That kid, you're a legend, right? You probably got time. Don't do it again. This is This should not be taken as an endorsement of your behavior. Stay in school. Stay in school. Whatever. I think you're a legend. Um, we probably have time for one more story. Yeah. So, this is a a bit of a historic story. Uh, Quantis has uh marked 60 years since its first
• 40:30 - 41:00 commercial jet service to New Zealand. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. So, this was uh 10th of April 1965. Um, and it was flown by uh VHBL which was with their Boeing 707 VJet. Um, the first ever commercial flight across the Tasman with a jet aircraft. Now, this was Sydney to Christ Church. Um, previously uh Trans Tasman trips had been served by Loheed Electra propeller planes. Before that, um, Shorts Empire Flying Boats, which had 15 seats and could fly between Sydney and Oakuckland
• 41:00 - 41:30 in about nine hours. Nine hours. Nine hours. Um, you can fly to Perth today in in in less than half that time. Um, which is that's three times the length of today's flights from Sydney to to to New Zealand. Um, but uh this was first time anyone had ever flown a jet across the Tasman. Uh, over 10,000 people came to Christ Church airport to welcome that service. Um, which was 10,000 people. 10,000 people came to Christ Church. So, isn't it? Yeah. It it I just goes to show you how how how amazing aviation is. Um, Quantis founder, Sir Hudson Fish
• 41:30 - 42:00 and Lady Fish were on board that inaugural service. Um, it was commanded by Chief Pilot Line Operations Captain Torchy Uran. What a great name. Great name. Um, or possibly Uran. I'm not sure how to pronounce that last name. Sorry, Torchy, if you're listening. Um, and still with us. Um and uh New Zealandb born cabin crew members Bob Bishop, Alan Williams and Alan Gil as well as Anne Clayton from Littleton in Christ Church. Uh today of course um the Quantis Group operates 360 flights across the Tasmin
• 42:00 - 42:30 every week um on you know 737s, 787s, A320s, A330s. Um but uh this was this was the the first time they did it and that was 60 years ago last week. Um, if you're wondering, by the way, if you're not up on your history, and I can't imagine why you wouldn't be, you're listening to the Australian Aviation Podcast. But, uh, for those who might not be in the know, the reason it was called a VJet was because this was one of the Quantis 73707s that was fitted with, uh, a turbo
• 42:30 - 43:00 fan engine as opposed to the older turbo jet engines. And so, Vjet from Vanis meaning fan in Latin. Um, now, Quantis, uh, in 1979 retired its last 707. And today the VHBL registration belongs to a 16th year old A33200 in the airlines Pride delivery. Now people say this shows all load of nonsense, but that was really good. Like that is next level knowledge and trivia you gave people there. Well, never say we don't do anything nice for you. There you go. And on that note, on that perfect note where
• 43:00 - 43:30 we've showed off our our knowledge, we'll probably wrap things up. Um Jake, thank you very much for joining us. Thank you, Adam. And we will be back on this show the same time next week. But for now, from me and Jake, goodbye. Goodbye. [Music]