Can the Western Sahara conflict be resolved? | Inside Story

Summary

Highlights

• Western Sahara's status is a lingering colonial issue affecting North Africa's geopolitical landscape. 🌍
• Spain's shift towards backing Morocco's autonomy plan has strained relations with Algeria, halting trades. 🚫
• Algeria supports the Polisario Front, stirring tensions over Western Sahara's independence quest. ⚔️
• Diplomatic chess unfolds as international players, including Spain and the Netherlands, choose sides. ♟️
• Energy supply considerations, particularly natural gas, add layers to the diplomatic maneuvering. 🔥

Key Takeaways

• Western Sahara remains a hotbed of geopolitical tension, with deep historical roots tying back to colonial times. 🗺️
• Algeria and Spain's diplomatic fallout over Western Sahara hints at larger regional political dynamics in play. 🌍
• The conflict sees international powers like the US and EU nations picking sides, complicating the pathway to peace. 🤝
• Gas politics play a crucial role as Algeria navigates its energy relations amid the conflict. ⛽
• Morocco's push for autonomy in Western Sahara faces legal and humanitarian challenges monitored by the UN. 🏢

Overview

Can the Western Sahara conflict be resolved? | Inside Story Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 a neglected conflict strange ties between Algeria and Spain trade and diplomatic links have been cut because of a dispute about the Western Sahara region but what's behind this recent escalation and can it be resolved this is Inside Story [Music]
• 00:30 - 01:00 hello there and welcome to the program I'm Nick Clark a contested region in Northwestern Africa is straining ties between Algeria and Spain the Algerian government has suspended a friendship agreement and halted all trade except for natural gas for now the dispute centers around the status of Western Sahara the region was a Spanish colony until 1975 Morocco then took control in a move that's not being recognized internationally Algeria supports
• 01:00 - 01:30 Fighters who've been calling for Independence in Western Sahara in March Spain's prime minister angered Algeria when he endorsed Morocco's plan to give some autonomy to the region the dispute highlights a difficult Balancing Act for Spain Madrid wants more energy supplies from Algeria while at the same time putting pressure on Morocco to stop the flow of migrants into Spanish territories in North Africa at the moment we're looking into the scope and practical consequences of
• 01:30 - 02:00 this measure both at the national and European level so as to give a correct response in a calm and constructive yet firm way to defend Spain's interests and those of its businesses well West Nara has been the subject of a long-running territorial dispute between Morocco and the indigenous saharawi people led by the polisario front the movement says the region is its Homeland and has pushed for Independence for decades but Morocco says it belongs to it the
• 02:00 - 02:30 dispute led to a 16-year conflict before the two sides agreed to a un back ceasefire in 1991 today more than 2third of the region is controlled by Morocco and last month the Netherlands joined the United States and other countries supporting Morocco's plan to Grant some autonomy Algeria is the main supporter of the polisario front and many refugees from the region live there [Music]
• 02:30 - 03:00 all right let's bring in our guests now in New York we have Ambassador CI Omar he's the polisario front representative at the United Nations in Casablanca Yasmin Hai a North Africa Affairs specialist and in Lisbon we have Ricardo fabiani a project director for North Africa at the international crisis group a warm welcome to each one of you thanks for joining us here today uh Ricardo fabiani from the international crisis group if I could start with you how serious do you think this development is Algeria suspending trade and and breaking of this uh friendship
• 03:00 - 03:30 agreement I think it's uh pretty serious particularly considering that uh this is only one episode in a long series of uh uh let's say retaliatory measures that Algeria has been taking against against Spain uh over the past weeks I think it shows very clearly that the Algerian leadership is uh very much bent on the idea that they want to put maximum pressure or as much pressure as possible
• 03:30 - 04:00 really on Spain uh to push Madrid to change position on this issue or otherwise they're ready to make Spain pay a heavy price uh for its diplomatic shift and obviously this is I would say um obviously dangerous and and and uh Waring for Spain uh particularly from a bilateral diplomatic perspective considering the energy ties and the migrator the migration issues that tie the two countries but it's also obviously War ing for Europe and the
• 04:00 - 04:30 other European governments that can now see that taking a specific stance on this issue on this conflict uh without considering the point of view of other parties involved in this dispute can actually bring a very heavy price you mentioned energy there at the moment algeria's supply of gas to Spain is still flowing might that come into question to what degree could Algeria you know weaponize it it gas Supply if
• 04:30 - 05:00 you will I don't think Algeria is really ready to weaponize its gas supplies to Spain simply because they know very well the Algerian leadership knows very well that right now given the situation in the Ukraine and uh with Russia weaponizing gas would be seen as an unacceptable move by the European governments who are just looking for Reliable suppliers at this stage but there are other things that Algeria can do to and put pressure on Spain using
• 05:00 - 05:30 gas and one could be for example the renegotiations of gas prices uh with Spain so that would not be a full out a full-blown let's say re weaponization of gas but it would be a way of using gas to put pressure to on Spain and to Signal very clearly that Algeria is displeased with the position Madrid has taken on this issue all right Yasmin as Nai how do you think this will happen this will affect what happens in the region now Algeria breaking ties off in
• 05:30 - 06:00 this way with Spain well first of all it's important to recall the viewer uh you know just little bit very briefly about the the Genesis of these of these tensions uh it's it's basically it's it's this tension is solely between Morocco and Algeria since the reintegration of Morocco in its Southern provinces in 1975 you know Algeria acclaimed the move through its second president harei buan and decided to you know to counter Morocco in its
• 06:00 - 06:30 legitimate and historical claim to the Western Sahara it is important also to highlight that algeria's decision to severe ties with either Morocco Spain or any other country that is now aligned with Morocco as your previous speaker stated in its historical Legacy regarding the Moroccan Western Sahara comes as a response to the Diplomatic successes achieved by Morocco in the recent here now I think that Algeria will continue whenever it see a country that is igned with Morocco or that is
• 06:30 - 07:00 aligned specifically with the UN resolution that calls for a political Solutions uh under the plan of autonomy uh I think that Algeria will keep on severan ties with whichever country that decided to to to align uh to to to be aligned with Morocco and this H it it doesn't serve the country doesn't serve the world especially now with the with the conflict what is happen with with Russia and Ukraine so I think that u u i mean I think that uh and more recently
• 07:00 - 07:30 we have seen countries like also Germany that is aligned with Morocco all right we're going to come on to all of that in a second yes me we're going to come on to that as the program goes on but you talked about Morocco's legitimate claim to the Western Sahara to Western Sahara I mean that in itself is in dispute isn't it it's a mess isn't it and ultimately it demonstrates the need for Morocco to step forward and sort this out with Algeria absolutely I mean the two uh the two uh the two opposing countries it's a regional conflict it's not even a conflict between entity it's a conflict
• 07:30 - 08:00 between Morocco and Algeria and I think that all the uh uh 34 resolutions uh call for a political Solutions called for Algeria Morocco the police area and morania specifically Algeria to step up to the plates and participate in the uh Geneva round tables that's that was started by uh HST Scher and now Stefan deura is calling for this uh for for these talks Algeria refused to take part in this and what is surprising is that it's it's
• 08:00 - 08:30 it's it's really impeding that political process by severing ties with any country that that is aligned or that sees that the real solution is a political solution that is aligned by whatever Morocco propos the plan of autonomy so I think that I think the two countries it is regional conflict I think that Algeria needs to step up and sit with Morocco and solve this 40 s year that let's let's bring Ambassador
• 08:30 - 09:00 cidd Omar so uh impeding progress Algeria is impeding progress what do you think of this this further shift from Spain towards the Moroccan position let me start by uh setting the record straight the question of Western Sahara is a decolonization issue it's an international conflict between the F poio and the kingdom of Morocco as recognized by the United Nations relevant resolutions uh so apparently one of your guests seem to be uh out of date in terms of the real political and
• 09:00 - 09:30 legal nature of the issue Western Sahara but what's actually at the heart of this issue that we're talking about and the growing tension in our region is to be explained by one main fact there is an regime that has been pursuing an expansion of policy since it exist okay look look C I'm we're going to come on to that in a second but can I just just please answer the questions what do you think of the shift from Spain towards the Moroccan position because that that
• 09:30 - 10:00 ultimately is what what affects what's going to happen regionally and we we'll come on to the other your other points but please answer that question first what do you make of this move we cannot yes we cannot understand what is happening now in the region and the relations that you're talking about without putting it even briefly into its historical context I know what make it quick exactly we're talking about Morocco that uh tried to invade Algeria in October 1960 Morocco
• 10:00 - 10:30 that is occupying parts of the Sahar Republic Morocco that claimed morania for many years and it took it uh nine years to recognize Morocco which tried to occupy Spanish iseland in July 2002 this is a regime that has been suing expansionism as a tool Ricardo if I can come to you Ricardo fabiani from International crisis Group H so what's your view about this as far as this is concerned because because this shift
• 10:30 - 11:00 from Spain is is quite a distinct move isn't it and it was always likely to produce a response from Algeria wasn't it I mean we're talking about the country that colonized uh the Western Sahara for several decades and most importantly that from a legal perspective is still considered as the colonial uh Power of this territory uh since it it left it in 75 So in theory this is a country that has a special responsibility both historical political and diplom IC towards Western Sahara and
• 11:00 - 11:30 towards a final settlement of this conflict and the fact that this country has now moved from a relatively neutral stance to this position of recognizing uh the Moroccan solution the Moroccan proposal as the best solution for the conflict is extremely meaningful also considering the significant swi diaspora that is present in this country and it's it's a signal right this is this is the most important thing this is a signal that Spain along with other European countries such as Germany the
• 11:30 - 12:00 Netherlands Etc are sending that they have stopped believing in a solution to this conflict that is not the Moroccan preferred option of course this is happening Without Really coordination among European governments without really waiting for the UN Envoy to actually come up with his own Proposal with his own plan and I think this is obviously problematic because it means that it's unclear really what the European position here here is if there is a un ified position of if there are
• 12:00 - 12:30 actually several European positions and they are not that are not negotiated or planned in in advance or coordinated with the UN which Remains the main framework within which this conflict is supposed to be uh settled CID Omar from the polisario front the fact is that international support is is moving firmly in the direction of the Moroccan position there's a growing number of uh Nations voicing their support for the autonomy
• 12:30 - 13:00 proposal the fact remains that the issue of Western Sahara is a decolonization issue on the agenda of the United Nations but what do you think about that fact what do you think the fact that the international view is moving away from your point of view this is not true we speaking about the position of a few countries that's what it is but I'm talking few miles from the United Nations Head Quarter where the issue is still on the agenda of the uh fa committee as decolonization issue it is
• 13:00 - 13:30 treated by the security Council where France that you've mentioned and even the United States of America are sitting and the position is one of calling for a solution that provides for the thought determination of the people of Western Sahara because simply we cannot imagine an a United Nations advocating and giving its blessing to an act illegal occupation this is what is uh uh taking
• 13:30 - 14:00 place on the United Nations as for the position of these few countries we have heard them but we have to dig deeper to know what made Spain change its position it's blackmail pressure by this expansionist regime that I said even try to occupy some part of Spain so the fact remains Western Sahara is a DEC canonization issue and that will not be changed by position by Spain or any other country uh because we live in a
• 14:00 - 14:30 rules-based international order that goes against illegal occupation of territories by force and shrines the right of peoples to self determination and this is uh what is the case and this is what the Sahari people have been fighting for and they will continue to fight for their rights no matter how this or that country Express preferences for an illegal uh proposal that has no basis whatsoever do you think this could now escalates into conflict C
• 14:30 - 15:00 Omar absolutely the position taken by Spain and other governments will only add to the instability in the entire region because we are they are encouraging an expansionist regim to go on with its attempt to force and impose realities on the ground we are in a world as I said based a rules-based world that goes against occupation and that's why uh the legal occupation by Morocco has never been uh recognized by
• 15:00 - 15:30 the United Nations the United Nations has never recognized the illegal occupation of parts of the Sahar Republic which is a full and founding member of the African Union so indeed unfortunately these countries are just giving more ammunitions to the cupan state of Morocco to not engage seriously in the peace process which the personal anvo Mr stepan deur is trying to revive after Morocco breached the ceire in November 2020 okay Yas Meine Morocco's claim to
• 15:30 - 16:00 Western Sahar Sahara is not recognized by the United Nations well uh the Western Sahara conflict is first of all only and solely under the security Council now we have seen uh those countries like the United States France uh Spain which is the former colonizer and uh that actually recognize uh uh the the plan of autonomy which which is under the Moroccan sovereignty which is which claims that Morocco uh to have the Western Sahara under its its sovereignty
• 16:00 - 16:30 so for me I think that the problem is solved within it will be solved and solved within uh within the secur within the security Council and no other body not even the African Union is responsible of this to solve this issue only the security Council we have seen more than 34 resolution that call for a political solution the referendum is a bygone uh uh referendum which which we don't for for 18 years it's a dead it's I was going to ask you about that yes
• 16:30 - 17:00 mean why is the referendum dead what happened to it it was proposed way back in the early 90s was why did it not a because it's not credible and because of the legitim legitimacy of the uh uh Moroccan uh the Moroccan history over the Western Sahara that actually the countries decided to endorse Morocco I think that the countries don't are not waiting for the Moroccan for Morocco to to dictate them and like uh you know what what what he said I think it's not
• 17:00 - 17:30 it's not a blackmail uh Spain the the Spanish prime minister Pedro Sanchez has clearly stated that the current position of Spain as a former colonizer to the Moroccan Western Sahara should have been done or should have the the the this colonizer should have been solved uh done 47 years ago and you will see other countries uh in the European Union that follow suit uh Spain in this uh in this claim I think that the problem now is with in Algeria it's Algeria that's
• 17:30 - 18:00 actually impeding the uh the peace process it's Algeria that needs to recognize the the historical implication to the impediment of to this artificial conflict Algeria needs to step to the plate and participate genuinely in ground table of Geneva you said we've already established that we've already got 30 seconds more this era is not an era of of of of the Cold War so I think that the the the the the Algerian Citizens need need more the Algerian to solve the internal economic crisis of
• 18:00 - 18:30 Algeria instead of mingling into war with with Morocco that won't lead anywhere Ricardo fabani we can see I mean we can see the difficulties here can't we Morocco regards this area as the southern provinces of Morocco Algeria regards it is under occupation since 1975 the UN says it doesn't belong to anybody what about the people who actually live there Ricardo is is it clear what they want um I don't think we can say with certain given that a referendum or any sort of
• 18:30 - 19:00 popular survey has never been conducted we we cannot really say with certainty what the uh population wants right also because we're talking about a very complicated picture here there are saharis who are based in the refugee camps in tindu Algeria there are saharis who live in Morocco controlled Western Sahara and there are obviously there's also a growing population of uh let's say Moroccans who have moved to Western
• 19:00 - 19:30 Sahara so really identifying with certainty with Clarity who wants what has become I would say a very complicated matter which is you know why of course we we keep talking and we keep going back to the issue of the UN framework and the fact that there needs to be some sort of compromise uh solution and most importantly support for the UN framework at this moment given that unilateral moves unilateral measures by individual International actors will not help settle this issue
• 19:30 - 20:00 uh for good CID if I can come to you how does what is going on affect the lives of the people living in the region the communities and so forth give us a paint a picture for us of what's going on on that front indeed uh What uh our people are living under in the territories of the Sahar Republic is is is appalling and that's happening without the of the International Community because Morocco
• 20:00 - 20:30 uh prohibits anybody to go to the territory even the United Nations specialized bodies are not allowed to go to the occupied territories of the Sahar Republic where our people are facing all sorts of crimes against humanity torture disappearances and all that you can imagine unspeakable cruelty being uh uh practiced against them and for the simple reason for demanding their inable rights assault determination and Independence to be respected as in any
• 20:30 - 21:00 part of the world we're speaking about a regim that as I said built an expansionism Rion that has been uh oppressing its own people who are rising but nobody knows about that uh we speaking about regime that recalls these dictatorial regimes of the middle ases and it's really H uh sometimes difficult to understand that still in the world of the 21st Century world people do not
• 21:00 - 21:30 know the real nature of the regime ruling in Morocco which is one of the most and less qualified regimes in the world to speak about human rights and that's really is part of this tragedy we're peaceful small people are fighting for principle and fundamental rights at the same time people are speaking about talking about a peaceful people fighting for their rights well I mean it's their own rights whatever they believe in but I believe that uh it's
• 21:30 - 22:00 important to uh to to uh to remind the viewer about the reality of the West Moroccan Western Sahara the southern region there are 80% of the Sahari population who live in the Moroccan Western Sahara and who participate fully and freely in the public policies of this of this region as well as at the national and and and local elections now at the level of of U the OV camps one has to know that's the only camp in the world that were not sensed and because of Algeria has not allowed the uncr to
• 22:00 - 22:30 sense this the this population how can we know the number of this population they live in dire positions dire conditions and they are vulnerable to the recruitment of of of terrorists that come from the Sahel so I think because of the not I think I'm I mean this conflict because of this artificial conflict this area is vulnerable this area is prone to terrorist recruitment in in specifically in in in the tindu region and there is a
• 22:30 - 23:00 growing threat to the security of the sah region and the Mediterranean basis again I'm gonna go back that I'm gonna jump in there I'm so sorry I'm sorry before you go back I I just have to jump in we're coming towards the end of the program and I want to give one final question to Ricardo fabani uh let's come back full circle to Spain's position which isn't cut and dried because there's a lot of opposition to it in the political hierarchy in Spain isn't there yes absolutely I mean this is a country that that as I mentioned before has
• 23:00 - 23:30 long-standing ties with both Morocco and with the swi population and with the sarawi diaspora that is present on its own national territory so it's only natural that uh this position taken by the government uh has been and is still I would say uh contested by significant sections of the population we know for example that the junior partner of the ruling Coalition podemos has already denounced this shift saying that it
• 23:30 - 24:00 doesn't really represent the opinion of the majority of the Spanish population surveys point exactly to that the fact that the majority of Spaniards don't seem to back the decision of this government and there have been there's been criticism even coming from the right particularly regarding what Spain has or has not really obtained in return for this uh for this move so I would say that even within Spain the debate is still very Lively and there are still significant ific questions regarding uh
• 24:00 - 24:30 uh the the let's say the logic of this move and the benefits of this shift well trying to tackle a a 50e dispute in 20 minutes or so is a real challenge but we do thank you all for joining us here today to try and take it on uh cidar Yasmin hawi and Ricardo fabiani thanks a lot and thank you too for watching you can see the program again anytime by visiting our website ala.com and for further discussion just go to our Facebook page that's facebook.com/ AJ insid story you can also join the
• 24:30 - 25:00 conversation on Twitter our handle is AJ insid story for me Nick Clark and the entire team here in Doha it's goodbye for now [Music]