Daniel Greene: Americans and the Holocaust

Summary

In this enlightening presentation, Daniel Greene, a subject matter expert from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum, delves into the complex issue of what Americans knew about the Holocaust and their responses. Hosted by the Serling Institute for Jewish Studies at MSU, Greene highlights the interpretative challenges faced in understanding the Holocaust's impact and America's role. The exhibit attempts to answer not only what information was available but also why more wasn't done to assist European Jews. The discussion covers the socio-political atmosphere of the 1930s and 1940s, focusing on isolationism, anti-Semitism, and the challenges of immigration laws.

Highlights

• Daniel Greene explores American knowledge of the Holocaust during its occurrence. 🎓
• The U.S.'s isolationist policies hindered a proactive response to Nazism. 🚧
• Crystal Nacht's coverage starkly highlighted anti-Semitic violence to American readers. 🔍
• Struggles of Jewish refugees under restrictive U.S. immigration laws are emphasized. 🏛️
• The racial and socio-political climate of 1930s America complicated responses to international crises. ⚖️

Key Takeaways

• Historical U.S. context: America's isolationism and internal issues shaped its response to the Holocaust. 🇺🇸
• Public awareness existed: Anti-Semitism and the plight of Jews were reported, but reactions were muted. 📰
• Complex immigration laws: Bureaucratic hurdles limited Jewish refugees' entry to the U.S. during the Holocaust. 🛂
• Domestic and foreign policy intersection: Internal conditions influenced international responses. 🌐
• Ongoing debate: The gap between disapproval of Nazi actions and aiding victims remains a point of reflection. 🤔

Overview

Daniel Greene's detailed talk reveals the layered narrative surrounding American awareness and reaction to the Holocaust. By examining historical records and press coverage, Greene presents a thorough investigation of what Americans knew and the governmental and public responses, or lack thereof, during this critical period.

The presentation underscores the restrictive nature of U.S. immigration laws at the time, highlighting how bureaucratic obstacles and isolationist sentiments limited the entry of Jewish refugees fleeing Europe. Greene points out the disparity between public disapproval of Nazi atrocities and the hesitancy to offer asylum to those in need.

Greene's discussion also traces the impact of domestic factors such as the Great Depression, racism, and anti-Semitism that played a significant role in shaping America's foreign policy responses. The exhibition aims to enlighten visitors on the nuanced dynamics of these historical events and their lasting implications.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 03:00: Introduction and Opening Remarks by Kirsten Forish The introduction and opening remarks are made by Kirsten Forish, a professor of Jewish studies and history at Michigan State and associate director of the Serling Institute. She expresses gratitude to the attendees, including friends, colleagues, students, and synagogue members, and introduces the event as the first in a series of programs accompanying the traveling United States Holocaust Memorial Museum exhibit titled 'Americans in the Holocaust.'
• 03:00 - 05:00: Overview of the Holocaust Exhibition and Series The chapter introduces the Holocaust Exhibition and Series held at the Library of Michigan from January 11th through February 22nd. It highlights the collaboration with the American Library Association, which allows only 100 venues across the country to host the exhibit over four years. The speaker expresses excitement about bringing this important exhibition to the library and invites listeners to experience it while it is available.
• 05:00 - 08:00: Introduction of Speaker - Daniel Greene The chapter introduces Daniel Greene, the speaker and curator of the exhibit. He will provide a walkthrough of the exhibit after his talk for those interested. This event is part of a three-part series, with an upcoming program titled 'Red Tape Not Red Carpet,' focusing on contemporary refugees.
• 08:00 - 13:00: Daniel Greene's Talk Begins: Context Before Nazism The chapter begins with Daniel Greene discussing upcoming events aimed at rethinking the history of anti-Semitism in Michigan. He invites attendees to take pamphlets about these events, highlighting their desire for more participation. Greene mentions specific dates, such as February 6th and February 10th, for scheduled panels and talks, emphasizing that transportation in the form of free buses from the MSU campus is available for those interested.
• 13:00 - 18:00: American Isolationism and Anti-Semitism The chapter discusses the planned activities and lectures related to American isolationism and anti-Semitism at MSU. Kirsten is organizing a bus trip and invites participation. In April, Laura Left will deliver a Holocaust lecture, and an exhibit at the Broad Museum will be prepared by students, inviting everyone to engage.
• 18:00 - 23:00: Media Coverage and Public Opinion in the 1930s The chapter titled 'Media Coverage and Public Opinion in the 1930s' seems to focus on expressing gratitude towards individuals and institutions who contributed to a specific project or event related to the theme. The speaker acknowledges Matt Pacer at the Library of Michigan for his collaborative efforts. The mention of other thanks includes a reference to Y Aronoff at the Sterling Institute, recognizing her contributions to facilitating and supporting the project.
• 23:00 - 30:00: Kristallnacht and Its Impact on U.S. Perception The chapter titled 'Kristallnacht and Its Impact on U.S. Perception' includes acknowledgments and expressions of gratitude to various departments and institutions for their collaboration and support. Specifically mentioned are the Department of History, the Broad Museum, the Department of Arts and Cultural Management and Museum Studies, the Jewish Historical Society of Michigan, and the University of Michigan Wallenberg Institute. The speaker appreciates their role as partners and sponsors of events related to the topic.
• 30:00 - 40:00: Challenges of Immigration and U.S. Immigration Policies The chapter titled 'Challenges of Immigration and U.S. Immigration Policies' introduces a speaker, Daniel Grean, who is an expert at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum and an adjunct professor of history at Northwestern University. The session is presented as a significant event, as it has been a long-time ambition of the host to bring Daniel Grean to speak in East Lancing. In 2018, Daniel curated an exhibition called 'Americans in the Holocaust,' which opened at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum.
• 40:00 - 45:00: The Build-Up to U.S. Involvement in WWII The chapter discusses the growing involvement of the United States in World War II, with a particular focus on cultural and historical reflections through exhibitions and media. It mentions the exhibition that marked its 25th anniversary and its influence on the documentary film 'The US and the Holocaust,' directed by Ken Burns, Lin Novick, and Sarah Botstein. Green, who served as a consultant, talks about the film's debut on PBS in September 2022. Additionally, Green and Edward Phillips co-edited the book 'Americans in the Holocaust,' published by Rutgers University Press in 2022, which explores Americans' experiences during the Holocaust. Green's involvement spanned from 2019 to 2023, highlighting the sustained interest and exploration of this historical period.
• 45:00 - 54:00: American Response to WWII and the Holocaust This chapter discusses the involvement and response of Americans to World War II and the Holocaust. It begins by introducing a speaker affiliated with the Newberry Library in Chicago, who has authored notable publications related to American history and Jewish cultural contributions. His achievements include winning the Sal Vener Prize for his book on American Jewish history. The chapter sets the stage for a deeper exploration of American engagement and reactions during this period.
• 54:00 - 64:00: Discussion on U.S. Domestic Impact of WWII The speaker thanks the Sterling Institute, the library of Michigan, Matt Pacer (the Project Director), and Kirsten for their support. They reflect on the helpfulness of Zoom calls during the pandemic, which provided significant aid over the last few years.
• 64:00 - 71:00: Liberation of Nazi Camps and Post-War Impact In this chapter, the author discusses the unique aspects of the 'Americans and the Holocaust' exhibition. Unlike other exhibitions or literature about the Holocaust, this one aims to provide a distinct perspective or approach. The author expresses gratitude towards Michigan State and its library for their hospitality and mentions engaging with students from a senior seminar to discuss the subject matter. The emphasis is on the innovative and different approach taken in presenting Holocaust history in this particular exhibition.
• 71:00 - 82:00: U.S. Immigration Policies Post-War The chapter discusses American awareness and understanding of the threat posed by Nazism during the post-war period. It highlights a survey conducted at the outset of an exhibition on this topic, where high school and college students were queried about their perceptions of American knowledge of Nazism at the time. As revealed by the survey, many students and others believed that Americans were not very knowledgeable about Nazism's threat in real-time.
• 82:00 - 88:00: Q&A Session: Jewish Community and American Response The chapter discusses a Q&A session focusing on the Jewish community and the American response during a historical period when significant events were happening in Europe. There is an emphasis on the availability of information, asserting that the news was accessible to those who paid close attention. However, there is a distinction made between having information and fully comprehending it. The chapter raises the question of why, despite the availability of information, more action wasn't taken in response to the events being reported.
• 88:00 - 93:00: Q&A Session: Role of Communism and Anti-Nazi Movements This chapter focuses on understanding the role of communism and anti-Nazi movements, particularly in the context of international crisis response. It emphasizes the importance of considering domestic conditions in the United States when analyzing how the country responds to international crises. The transcript suggests that past scholarship may have overlooked this approach, but the chapter aims to demonstrate that understanding domestic factors is crucial to answering questions about America's international stance and actions.
• 93:00 - 103:00: Q&A Session: American Fascism and Pro-Nazi Movements The chapter titled 'Q&A Session: American Fascism and Pro-Nazi Movements' discusses the context of American responses to genocide events, including the Holocaust. It draws from the ideas in Samantha Power's book, 'A Problem from Hell,' which examines America's response to various genocides. The chapter sets out to provide context about the situation in the United States with regard to these historical events.
• 103:00 - 115:00: Q&A Session: Jewish Press, Ghetto, and Holocaust Awareness The chapter discusses a scene set in 1935 Philadelphia where a World War I veteran, who lost his eyesight, sells newspapers on the street. This depiction highlights America's isolationist stance post-World War I, as the nation withdrew from international engagements. During the 1930s, Americans often questioned the decision to have entered World War I.

Daniel Greene: Americans and the Holocaust Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 I'd like to thank everybody for coming tonight to um the beginning of our um this is the first in a multi-part series of programs accompanying the traveling United States Holocaust Memorial Museum exhibit Americans in the Holocaust I'm so thrilled to see friends and co-workers and colleagues and students and and uh synagogue members and everyone here it's really great to see everybody um I'm Kirsten forish I'm a professor of Jewish studies um and history at Michigan State um and associate director of the Serling Institute insute um uh and this is like
• 00:30 - 01:00 this is the Fulfillment you're all the Fulfillment of my dreams we've been working on this for a really long time um so this exhibit um is at the library of Michigan from January 11th through February 22nd um the US hmm partnering with the American Library Association has made this exhibit available to only a 100 venues across the country over four years um so we're really fortunate to have it with us uh for for this month and a half I hope if you haven't already gotten a chance to see it you will um
• 01:00 - 01:30 Daniel Green our um our speaker who is also the curator of this exhibit um we're thrilled to have him here he is going to offer a walkthrough of the exhibit for people who are interested after his talk so I hope that you'll stay um and get a chance to do that um I'm excited to do it myself um uh so um I mentioned that this is the first in a three-part series we're also going to have a program called um red tape not red carpet um uh which focuses on contemporary refugees um in the mid
• 01:30 - 02:00 Michigan area that's going to be February 6th um and then we're going to have a panel um of Scholars talking about rethinking anti-Semitism in Michigan um uh re think the history of anti-Semitism in Michigan and that's February 10th we have pamphlets um up at the back please take them we have a lot of them so don't don't be shy go ahead take one take one for your friend um uh please we'd love to have you come to more of those as well um and there are free buses that leave from the MSU campus um so you can contact me um
• 02:00 - 02:30 Kirsten forish um I'm the only one at MSU um and I can get you signed up so you can take a bus we'd love to have you come for more um there will also be um in April we'll have Laura left um who also speaks on Americans and the Holocaust she will be our um Holocaust lecturer this year on April 24th and there will also be an exhibit at the Broad Museum that student l so people here around you in the seats will actually be creating some of this Museum exhibit so we invite everyone to come check that out at the end of April as
• 02:30 - 03:00 well um okay and so um I'd finally I'd also like to give thanks um to so many people um uh Matt Pacer who I don't see but he should be here um he is the person we've been working with um at the library of Michigan but everyone at the library of Michigan thank you so much for doing this work with us and hosting us um and helping us put this application together um thanks to Y Aronoff at the Sterling Institute for all the work that she's done to sort of make this happen and help this work out
• 03:00 - 03:30 I'd like to thank the department of History Micky Stam is somewhere there you go thank you to the Department of History um thank you to the Broad Museum the Eli and Edith Broad Museum um thank you to the Department of Arts and Cultural management and Museum studies thanks to the Jewish Historical Society of Michigan um and thanks to especially the University of Michigan Wallenberg Institute which is co-sponsoring all of our events um and has been a wonderful partner um and if there's not if I haven't given everyone I'm going to run
• 03:30 - 04:00 up at the end of your talk and I'm going to give the people I've forgotten but um and most of all thanks to all of you for coming um on this evening um uh so finally I want to introduce our speaker um who I've been trying to get to come for years to East Lancing so this is again fulfillment of all my dreams um so Daniel grean is a subject matter expert at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC um and Adent professor of history at Northwestern University in 2018 he curated Americans in the Holocaust which opened at the US hmm to
• 04:00 - 04:30 commemorate its 25th anniversary um the exhibition also inspired the documentary film people might have seen that um the US and the Holocaust directed by Ken Burns Lin novic and Sarah botstein um uh green served as a consultant as an adviser to that film I'm sorry which aired on PBS in September 2022 he also with Edward Phillips um uh co-edited the book Americans in the Holocaust a reader which I brought with me to show and I forgot to bring it up here um which was published by rers University press in 2022 from 2019 to 2023 green was
• 04:30 - 05:00 president and librarian of the Newberry library in Chicago his Publications include the 2013 book Homefront daily life in the Civil War which he co-authored and the 2011 book The Jewish origins of cultural pluralism the manur association and American diversity um which was published in 2011 and for which he was awarded the Sal vener prize given by the American Jewish Historical Society for best book in American Jewish history over a 2-year period so we are so thrilled and excited to have him here
• 05:00 - 05:30 so give him a warm welcome and can't wait to hear what you have to say thank you U this is yeah thank you thank you everyone uh I also want to thank the Sterling Institute and um the library of Michigan and and Matt Pacer the the Project Director um and um Kirsten it's like it's the Fulfillment of my dreams too we we had a lot of uh I feel like our Zoom calls really helped me through a lot of the pandemic and the challenges of the past couple years so it's good to
• 05:30 - 06:00 spend time in person as well um and I had a great opportunity to talk to um students in Kirsten's um senior seminar this afternoon so I just want to say I really appreciate the hospitality of Michigan State and the library of Michigan so thank you very much um I'm going to talk to you tonight about um the history that's covered in the Americans and the Holocaust exhibition and there's a lot of scholarship and a lot of exhibitions about the Holocaust um we were trying to do something different being the
• 06:00 - 06:30 um the nation's Memorial on the National Mall um to look deeply at what Americans knew um and when and what more could have been done u in response to Nazism and um we at the beginning of this exhibition surveyed thousands of high school and college students and asked them a few direct questions one of which was do you think Americans knew much in real time about the threat of Nazism and many students and others said no I don't
• 06:30 - 07:00 think we had information so that's not correct um and we really kind of pour it on heavy in the exhibition to show that if you were paying attention to the news you could have followed almost in real time what was happening in Europe now we can talk tonight there's a difference between having information and fully understanding that information but we can't say that the information wasn't there just someone who who paid attention to the news closely um so then we have to ask well why wasn't more done
• 07:00 - 07:30 and I think too often in the past with this scholarship people sort of throw up their hands but what we were trying to do was show that there are ways to answer that question and one of the most important ways to answer that question is to think about how Americans respond to International crises abroad you can't ever understand how Americans respond to International crisis abroad without thinking of domestic conditions at home right domestic conditions often shape our response to International crisis
• 07:30 - 08:00 abroad this is not um an absolutely original thought if those of you there might be people in the in the crowd today who know um the book by Samantha power called a problem from hell um which is how America responded to multiple genocides including the Holocaust and that's Central to her argument that you have to look at what's happening in the United States so much of this exhibition is the context of the United States so let me start there and give you some of that context
• 08:00 - 08:30 um or not there we go yes all right so here we see a World War I veteran this is on the Street in Philadelphia in 1935 you can see that he can't see he's wearing a sign that says I gave my eyes and he's selling newspapers on the street the United States is an isolationist nation in the aftermath of World War I we pull out of um International Affairs and Americans were asked frequently during the 1930s was it a mistake to enter World War I usually
• 08:30 - 09:00 about 70% of Americans say yes it was a mistake we're hoping that oceans protect us from crisis abroad and when Hitler comes to power in 1933 this is only 15 years in the rearview mirror right this veteran is relatively young uh so there is a lot of living memory of World War I um and a thought that World War I wasn't worth it we're a segregated Nation this is North Carolina in 1935 you see a young African-American uh boy at a at a segregated drinking fountain public
• 09:00 - 09:30 facilities were segregated in the 1930s churches were segregated schools were segregated and sometimes this segregation is enforced through law and sometimes it's enforced through horrific violence um this is going to matter not only for the way we respond to Nazism but the way that Nazi propaganda will use segregation in the United States against Americans when we do speak up uh it is the worst economy that anyone had ever known um this is U 1933 in my
• 09:30 - 10:00 hometown of Chicago I have some friends from grad school in the audience too this is on State Street um in the 900 block of State Street a soup kitchen run by Al Capone the great humanitarian Al Capone um 25% of Americans are unemployed in 1933 when when President when Franklin Roosevelt becomes president and we don't have a linear recovery to the depression we have a wavy recovery to the depression and
• 10:00 - 10:30 things are going to bottom out again in 1937 and 1938 in a way that matters um but for this moment in American Immigration history a common Trope is we can't let any IM immigrants in we don't have enough jobs for Americans right that is a strong strong um sentiment in the 1930s there are counterveiling voices even within FDR's Administration but those count who are saying actually if you let immigrants in it'll spur the economy but those voices don't don't win the day
• 10:30 - 11:00 so this is our imagining of America right here this is New York Harbor you can see the Statue of Liberty in the background and immigrants arriving um and I'm I'm not saying that this isn't true we are a nation of immigrants we're also a nation that closes its doors to immigrants and both things are true and we have to struggle with both of those things to really study American history um effectively um We're a nation with a rise of groups like The Klux Clan this
• 11:00 - 11:30 is the 1920s in Washington DC you can see the capital the Klux Clan wants to enforce a vision of or or or um put forward a vision of America that is a white Protestant vision of America right they're they're deeply racist against African-Americans they're anti-catholic they're deeply anti-semitic uh and um again this Vision will sometimes be enforced um through horrific extra legal violence um you have um Kirsten
• 11:30 - 12:00 mentioned you're going to talk about Michigan um but I couldn't resist also um bringing in Henry Ford uh right one of the most famous Americans runs the Ford Motor Company revolutionizes the way that um the means of production um but he's also a vicious anti-semite um and he Lo many of us may know this history he runs for Senate here in Michigan in 1918 and he loses um and one of his explanations for why he lost was um that the media cover of him was bad
• 12:00 - 12:30 um common Trope is to believe that Jews control the media so Ford decides to buy his own newspaper the Dearborn independent um out of Dearborn Michigan and the Dearborn independent is struggling when he buys it and in the first year that he owns it loses a lot of money and he and um his staff are looking for a way to kind of amp up interest in the Dearborn independent and one of the ways they do that is by publishing a horrific um series of anti-Semitic articles starting in 1920 the international Jew the world's
• 12:30 - 13:00 problem Ford is going to blame all the problems of the United States on Jews which is kind of a typical anti-emetic um propaganda tactic um so this will you know promote ideas false ideas like the Jews control the world economy the Jews want to keep the world at war because Jews benefit when the world is at War um the Jews control the media um Ford blames Jews for the fact that the the um the flavor of his favorite chewing gum
• 13:00 - 13:30 has changed anything that you can BL in this series anything that you can blame Jews for he blames he blames Jews for um this gets turned into books also so it circulates in in multiple ways I should say the Dearborn independent actually becomes then a very popular newspaper um it becomes the some some historians say it's the second highest circulating newspaper in the um 1920s I don't know if that's true but the the um circulation goes up from the tens of thousands to over
• 13:30 - 14:00 800,000 um in the as this series is running it circulates as pamphlets then like this the international Jew that get translated into multiple languages including German um this is a a version from leig in 1922 um and and it's they need to do multiple reprintings in in Germany in um in 1922 this is the moment where the N the
• 14:00 - 14:30 na there's a nent Nazi party still over a decade before Hitler is going to become chancellor of Germany but Hitler and Joseph Geral who who will become the Nazi minister of propaganda read this book They're inspired by this book Ford right Hitler writes about Ford um Hitler had a portrait of Ford in his private office um Ford will end up winning um a medal from the Nazis that is one of the highest medals that they can give to a foreign citizen so I'm not saying let's blame Ford for all the ills of Nazism
• 14:30 - 15:00 that's not at all what I'm saying but I'm saying the ideas are influential and they're circulating um and they're circulating at a time of heightened American anti-Semitism so we can't look abroad and say oh well the Nazis were anti-semitic but here we were a tolerant nation of immigrants um the United States is is uh is a a golden land for many Jews um but it's also a time of of significant and and heightened anti-semitism so that's all the
• 15:00 - 15:30 preconditions to Nazism in 1933 that's what America looks like um xenophobic isolationist Rising anti-Semitism segregation um and white supremacist organizations on the street all those things come before um we look abroad and we see this right we see a new world leader in Germany and it shouldn't surprise us that Hitler is well covered in the American Press right democracy has collapsed in Germany and we have uh we have a fascist regime that's Vanity
• 15:30 - 16:00 Fair from November of 1932 on the left Hitler's frequently on the cover of Time Magazine this is a an issue from 1933 um and the Press does not miss the fact that anti-Semitism is Central to Nazi ideology this is Joseph Geral Nazi minister of propaganda this is July of 33 so we're 6 months into um the Nazi regime in Germany and I I've just pulled to the side what it say say on the bottom of the cover say it in your
• 16:00 - 16:30 dreams the Jews are to blame so this article explains that anti-Semitism is essential to Nazi ideology and the Nazis explain all the ills of the World by blaming Jews there's a danger in looking at an article like this though and saying oh well we should have known we should have known that mass murder was to come and that's not what I'm saying the Nazis didn't know that mass murder was to come right so I'm not saying um that that's how we should read this article but we
• 16:30 - 17:00 can't say the coverage of anti-Semitism wasn't there coverage of Nazi anti-Semitism was always there um once once Hitler Rose to power and actually well before Hitler Rose to power um uh a well-known at the time American journalist named Dorothy Thompson goes and interviews Hitler in 1931 and she both overestimates him and underestimates him she says this is 1931 it's 2 years before he's going to become Chancellor she says everyone was telling me that this guy's going to be the leader of Germany there's no way he
• 17:00 - 17:30 doesn't have it in him right she think she calls him a small man she says he's invaluable um and yet she also writes anti-Semitism is the life and soul of Hitler's movement the Nazis lose no opportunity to insult the Jews this article is in Cosmopolitan magazine so no matter what you were picking up you could be reading I mean it's a women's fashion magazine right you could be reading about um Nazi at the time um but Americans have other
• 17:30 - 18:00 things on their mind so the Gallup organization starts polling in the mid 1930s and they go out and they ask Americans do you think there'll be another serious depression in 1936 two-thirds of Americans say yes they say I mentioned this one already do you think it's a mistake for the United States to have entered World World War I 70% of Americans say yes in 1938 they ask do you think the persecution of Jews in Europe has been their own fault so do do we blame Jews
• 18:00 - 18:30 in Europe for the persecution of Jews in Europe and if you add up partly and entirely you get about 23ds of Americans which speaks a bit to the anti-Semitism in the United States at the time um that Americans are prone to blame Jews for the persecution of Jews it must have been something the Jews did U is what's on many Americans Minds so I'm going to skip ahead to 1938 because 1938 then is a really key turning point for what Americans understand understand about Nazism um and how we respond but um just
• 18:30 - 19:00 to make the point about Michigan again in 1938 you also have Father Charles cogin um he's he's passed his Peak by 1938 actually but he's getting Millions this is a a a radio a Catholic priest out of Detroit who uses the radio incredibly effectively to spread hatred of Jews um he does it in kind of coded language he talks about um how we have to Drive the money changers from the
• 19:00 - 19:30 temple um to to um to um fix the American economy he links all Jews with Communists um and he's very popular um and he really effectively uses the New Media of the radio to spread his message and get into individuals homes so he has a newspaper also called social justice here you can see he's on the left in the green circle the headline says the truth about the protocols um he he's reprinting the most notorious
• 19:30 - 20:00 anti-semitic publication called the protocols of the Elders of Zion which circulates horrific lies about Jews and he's telling you that they're true he's also celebrating Hitler and Neville Chamberlain as peacemakers um after um the the appeasement deal so in 1938 Americans start to pay attention in a different way first because the nais annex Austria um so the Nazis had taken it's an event known as the anus in the spring of 1938 the Nazis had taken
• 20:00 - 20:30 territory um but this is on a different scale um the the the um the Angelus in in 1938 um and then in November of 1938 across Germany and the former Austria you get a nationwide terrorist attack against Jewish people Jewish synagogues Jewish businesses that we today know as Crystal kned um it lasts for two days and it's Banner headlines across all of the United States so here is the
• 20:30 - 21:00 Dallas Morning News from November of 1938 saying hysterical Nazis wreck thousands of Jewish shops burned synagogues and wild orgy of looting and Terror this is covered in a way it reminds me of the way that we cover terrorist attacks today in the United States with shocking um Banner headlines about a state state sponsored attack against uh against Jewish people living within Germany and Austria um here's the
• 21:00 - 21:30 Lancing State Journal uh and on the um on the right um You can see um coverage mobs burn mobs burn church and plunder Jewish stores in Berlin crowds crowds fight with police Nazi riers uh take revenge for slaying uh so this will be on the cover of on the front page of American newspapers for about 2 weeks in November of 1938 there's not many stories in our lives that stay on the
• 21:30 - 22:00 front page for two weeks solid um but this one does and no matter what paper you pick up you would find this so historians have asked the question what did the New York Times have to say about Nazism most Americans don't read the New York Times in the 1930s most New Yorkers don't read the New York Times in the 1930s there's something there's over a dozen daily newspapers in New York um and there's hundreds of daily newspapers across the country um and and they all um at moments like this um do do a you
• 22:00 - 22:30 know put this story on the front page there's also a myth that stories about Nazi persecution of Jews was never on the front page we might say it wasn't on the front page enough but there were a lot of moments where it was on the front page and often the smaller the smaller the newspaper was the more likely it was you know in smaller towns the more likely it was to be on the front page this is 2 weeks after Crystal knocked the Los Angeles examiner saying not these warn World Jews will be wiped out
• 22:30 - 23:00 unless evacuated by democracies what we get by 1938 is a refugee crisis Jews had wanted to get out of Germany for five years we five years into Nazism but it becomes a crisis by 1938 um and um so the president is asked about this um this is the Baltimore Sun from about a week after Crystal KN you see Roosevelt denounced his Nazis president shocked by attack on Jews Roosevelt was very good at
• 23:00 - 23:30 manipulating the media and getting um the kind of coverage he wanted Roosevelt would have these press conferences uh multiple times every week where reporters would be invited into his uh office and he would be sitting there and he would kind of control he try to kind of control the news um and these were off the Record press conferences and if you went on the record you weren't invited back right so the stakes were high to not but in the week after Crystal knock the first thing he says to the reporters who walk in is this one's
• 23:30 - 24:00 on the record so he wants to be quoted and one of the things he says and actually the state you can see on the bottom right here the president's statement some newspapers like the Baltimore Sun even reprint verbatim the a short uh statement that Roosevelt made and he said I myself could scarcely believe that such things could occur in a 20th century civilization he's talking about the violence on crystal KN 30,000 Jewish men are arrested and sent to concentration camps hundreds of Jewish shops and synagogues are destroyed all
• 24:00 - 24:30 over Germany and Roosevelt announces this so This matters um you know it might not be as full-throated an action as we would like but it is the president denouncing the actions in another country that we still consider has its own sovereignty Roosevelt recalls our ambassador to Germany we're the only country that recalls our ambassador um after Crystal knocked and we won't have an ambassador
• 24:30 - 25:00 to Germany again until after World War II um and Roosevelt can't change our restrictive immigration laws but what he does do is there are about 12,000 people who are here in the United States in November of 1938 on visitor visas tourist visas tourist visas have a short expiration date and he waves the expiration he says for all of those who are here on on visitor visas they don't have to go back now that might also sound like a small
• 25:00 - 25:30 action to us but it's 12,000 lives um if you're comparing that to the number six million of Jews murder during the Holocaust it sounds like a small number but again at this at this moment what's coming is really unimaginable um so he takes some action but then the Press says so are we going to let in more Jewish refugees and he says no that's not under contemplation we have an immigration system and we're not going to change our immigration system and our immigration system at
• 25:30 - 26:00 this time was a very restrictive immigration system in the United States that we had no there was no Asylum policy in the 1930s refugees could not show up on our Shores and claim Asylum and there's no designation in American law at this time for refugees if you want to get to the United States you have to get to the United States as an immigrant and Americans are living under very restrictive immigration laws at this time so American are asked in the aftermath of Crystal KN do you approve
• 26:00 - 26:30 or disapprove of the Nazi treatment of Jews in Germany and this we'll see in the exhibition upstairs 94% of Americans disapprove and so they're asked this follow-up question should we allow more Jewish Exiles from Germany to come to the United States to live and 72% say no one of the things we really want people thinking about in this exhibition is why in American history is there so often a gap between disapproval of bad stuff happening over there wherever the over there is and a willingness to Aid the
• 26:30 - 27:00 victims of that and that is um that is a common response in American history um Dorothy Thompson again who had written Isa Hitler writes a small book about refugees in 1938 she's trying to motivate Americans to take in more refugees and she says in this book it's a fantastic commentary on the inhumanity of our times that for thousands and thousands of people a piece of paper with a stamp on it is the difference between life and death Thompson is
• 27:00 - 27:30 syndicated in over a 100 newspapers you can see here she has a radio show on NBC what she's talking about is the maddening bureaucracy that that someone who wants to immigrate to the United States has to navigate so um I don't expect you to take this all in um it's really the fact that it's overwhelming what was required to get a US immigration visa was overwhelming and it was overwhelming by Design it's not by accident that it was difficult to get a
• 27:30 - 28:00 US immigration visa this is what the US Congress wanted um in passing severely restrictive laws in uh 1924 so a few things that I can point out on here even even the second one copies of an applicant's birth certificate in my own family um there were um uh my wife's grandmother was born in 1910 in Germany when she was born in 1910 in Germany it wasn't common practice for everyone to get a birth certificate right so when
• 28:00 - 28:30 she was trying to get out of Germany in the late 1930s as a 20-some year old she had to figure out how do I get a birth certificate right so some of these things that maybe even look sort of normal and easy to us were not part of the um bureaucracy over a hundred over a hundred years ago couple key things you needed sponsors in the United States right the economy is terrible in 1937 1938 and there is a worry among the US government that immigrants
• 28:30 - 29:00 will become what was called at the time likely to become a public charge LPC likely to become a public charge meaning that you wouldn't be able to take care of yourself economically so you needed a sponsor here who was actually would deposit money sign an affidavit a legal form and deposit money guaranteeing that they would take care of the Immigrant who would come over so there's an expense to this uh that is prohibitive for many people many of these forms in
• 29:00 - 29:30 and of themselves were expensive many of them had short expiration dates and you had to line them up in the right order um and sometimes a form that you had would expire before you could get the next form and you had to start over uh if if the if your sponsors in the United States were not a relative the government the US government the state department was more skeptical of your application if it wasn't a relative sponsoring you um so there's hurdles here that are that become maddening for refugees you might see about two-thirds
• 29:30 - 30:00 of the way down it a certificate of Good Conduct from German police authorities for some that meant for some Jews in Germany that meant going to a Gestapo office and trying to get a certificate of Good Conduct that could be terrifying uh so the system on both sides makes it very very difficult for um for immigrants to get in I I think often of this letter that Albert Einstein wrote It's either in 1940 or
• 30:00 - 30:30 1941 Albert Einstein who himself was a refugee from Germany who came here in the early 1930s he writes to Elanor Roosevelt in 1940 he's trying to get Elanor Roosevelt the first lady to convince her husband to do a little bit more to liberalize immigration policy and Einstein writes to Elanor Roosevelt your government has erected a wall of bureaucratic measures to keep immigrants out and then he says can't you do something about this right so sometimes walls are physic and sometimes walls are bureaucratic
• 30:30 - 31:00 right and in the 1930s this wall to keep Jews out is is a bureaucratic wall you start to see Graphics like this this is from the Oakland California Tribune in 1938 asking how many refugees can we take and the countries in Black are either um Nazi occupied or Nazi sympathizing countries and I realize it's hard to see but you get two numbers under each country on the left is an estimation of the number of Jews living in the country at that time and the
• 31:00 - 31:30 estimates here are are pretty good Poland says 3.25 million Lithuania says um 9 44,000 984000 Hungary 444,000 Germany says 550,000 which is two high for 1938 it's a good estimate for 1933 when the Nazis came to power actually a couple hundred thousand Jews had made it out of Germany by that time but it's more important to focus right now on the number on the right which is a much of the D Cas under each country which is a much smaller number and that
• 31:30 - 32:00 number is the maximum number of visas that the US could issue to people born in that country in a year the maximum number of visas that the US could issue to people born in that country so as you go east and south those numbers get much much smaller Germany and Austria already combined on this map their number is over 27,000 Romania's number is 370 7 Poland's number is
• 32:00 - 32:30 6524 there is no way through our immigration system that the United States could have prevented the Holocaust even if we issued all of these visas however the United States does not issue nearly as many visas as we could have hundreds of thousands of visas go unissued so there's kind of a one hand on the other hand to this history on the one hand the United States lets in more refugees from Nazism than any other
• 32:30 - 33:00 country in the world we let in historians debate this but we leted in about 225,000 um refugees from Nazi Germany more than any other country in the world and yet we don't admit nearly as many as we could have even under this restrictive immigration law and I think again we have to struggle with with both things in 1939 A couple of people in Congress decide well let's let's have let's have some kind of workaround of this
• 33:00 - 33:30 restrictive immigration quota system and Senator Robert Wagner a Democrat from New York gets together with a republican congresswoman in Massachusetts named Edith Rogers and they say let's let in 10,000 children a year in 1939 and in 1940 so over two years let's let in 20,000 kids who are refugees and let's not count that against our restrictive immigration quota system let's do that outside of the restrictive IM ation quota system this is when elanar Roosevelt really
• 33:30 - 34:00 starts to use her voice um in support she takes to the radio and she says I think it's a wise way to do a humanitarian act other nations take their share of child refugees and it seems a fair thing to do for those of you who know the history she's actually talking about the Kinder transport here a program by which um thousands of unaccompanied children made it to the United Kingdom the louder voices come from Southern white Democrats like this Senator Robert Reynolds from North Carolina who says my heart goes out in sympathy
• 34:00 - 34:30 to the refugee children but my heart beats in sympathy first for American sons and daughters in preference to the children of fathers and mothers of any other nation in the world and it's actually Reynolds who is reflecting American public opinion Gallop polls about this too uh and they say should 10,000 Refugee children be brought into this country and taken into American homes and you can see two-thirds of Americans are against even a program for child refugees so it just gives you the a sense of the extent of the anti-immigrant sentiment um an
• 34:30 - 35:00 anti-semitic sentiment in the United States at at the time um Americans so this is all before World War II begins World War II begins in September of 1939 here are Americans reading headlines about Germany invading Poland and what's on Americans Minds is staying out of the war how do we stay out of this War President Roosevelt takes to the airwaves and gives a fireside chat two days after the war begins and he says
• 35:00 - 35:30 this nation will remain a neutral Nation but I cannot ask that every American remain neutral in thought as well he's actually hearkening back to World War I President Wilson had asked us not only to remain neutral but to remain neutral in thought roselt saying we can be anti-nazi but we're going to stay out of this War I promise you he's then going to spend all of his political capital in the next two plus years or almost all of his political Capital he's going to run for a third term also which spends a lot of political Capital but but trying to
• 35:30 - 36:00 move an isolationist Nation towards War he's going to spend no political capital on trying to change the immigration question I think one of the things we know about President Roosevelt especially by 1939 he's been in in office for over six years um is that he wants to choose battles he can win um and he knows he can't win on on immigration um you get moments like this this is this guy's breaking the law hanging signs on the White House fence but a photographer caught it thankfully the signs say FDR you're preparing for
• 36:00 - 36:30 war you fight it right there's a strong isolationist sentiment in the United States it gets codified in organizations like the America First committee um here's a propaganda poster from the America First committee um which is saying that the first casualty of War itself will be Liberty uh that we'll lose our Liberty if we go to war you get this strong isolationist sentiment this America first starts as a student anti War organization but becomes a deeply
• 36:30 - 37:00 anti-semitic organization in large part because the spokesman who you see at the podium here Charles Lindberg um gives a speech in De Moine Iowa in September of um 1941 where he plays on multiple anti-semitic tropes um where he he basically threatens Jews in America he says Jews are agitating us towards War um and if we go to war that's perceived as a war for Jews there'll be a backlash
• 37:00 - 37:30 of anti-Semitism here in the United States like you've never seen actually the speech is not well received but I think Lindberg is saying out loud what a lot of people um believe um believe privately um there's a lot of negative reactions to Lindberg um including from a political cartoonist named Theodore a very young political cartoonist named Theodore gel um this is way before Green Eggs and Ham um and the Dr books but he's writing for he's an editorial
• 37:30 - 38:00 cartoonist for a a left leaning newspaper out of New York called pm and here you have either a mother or a grandmother with an America first so isolationist sweater reading a terrifying story to her children or her grandchildren called ad off the wolf and the book says and the Wolf chewed up their children and spit out their bones but those were foreign children and it didn't really matter so it's hearkening back even to that failed Wagner Rogers bill that failed proposal to bring in um child child refugees um so Americans you
• 38:00 - 38:30 know as kind of the news is tightening around Jews in Europe Americans are bogged down in a debate about whether or not to get into this war right and this debate is going to last from September of 1939 When The War begins until Pearl Harbor until December 7th 1941 it will only be solved by uh by Pearl Harbor this is the attack on Pearl Harbor um on December 7th 1941 and then we're in the
• 38:30 - 39:00 war Roosevelt um declares war on Japan the next day and 3 Days Later Hitler Germany declares war on the United States on December 11th of um 1941 and then Roosevelt says we're all in we're all in this war we're all in it all the way um so I want to look at the war and briefly and then a little bit about the postwar to understand so what was this war about um for for Americans uh you
• 39:00 - 39:30 get by the time we go to war heightened National Security concerns right about internal spies uh our first response to the war is to round up our own citizens people of Japanese descent and Japanese American citizens and move them Inland off of the West Coast into concentration camps 10 concentration camps across across the United States um in the name of national security right so this worry about internal spies is amped up in the
• 39:30 - 40:00 United States the FBI director J Edgar Hoover is really going to Jin up these fears about internal spies and it matters also I mean it becomes almost impossible for a refuge for an immigrant to cross the Atlantic by the time we're at War right but this notion that we can't let in immigrants they might be spies for Nazi Germany is a really strong sentiment throughout this history these concentration camps are not secret there's an offensive term for people of
• 40:00 - 40:30 Japanese ancestry on this headline but it gives you a sense of the time this is Life Magazine the most popular pictorial magazine showing uh prisoners arriving at manzanar um which is in Independence California um in the Sierra Nevada mountains um and the magazine that gets it the most right I think is the crisis this is the magazine of the NAACP um and they write right about Americans in concentration camps the sub headline says uh color seems to be the
• 40:30 - 41:00 only reason why thousands of American citizens of Japanese ancestry are in concentration camps anyway there are no italian-americans or German American citizens in concentration camps there were roundups of Italian Americans and German Americans here but nothing like this program of removing um Japanese American people from their homes basically robbing them of their assets buying them at Pennies on the dollar and forcing them off of off of the West
• 41:00 - 41:30 Coast so again we need to think about the domestic conditions right the the plight of American of Europe's Jews um was not always top of Mind very often something else is more important um but we also can't say we didn't know um the state department receives this important telegram by August of 1942 so mass murder of Jews begins in the summer of 1941 right we've had
• 41:30 - 42:00 persecution of Jews since 1933 but mass murder comes when the Nazis invade the Soviet Union U and you get about a million and a half Jews murdered in what historians Now call the Holocaust by bullets right people who were never rounded up and sent to camps but just collected in the towns in which they lived shipped out of their towns to um you know not distant locations where they dug their their own Graves and were shot alongside Mass Graves that happens
• 42:00 - 42:30 uh for about uh the last 6 months of 1941 by 1942 this telegram has reached the state department it says um I'll just read um a part of it it says um have and this this is um from from a Jewish organization in Geneva Switzerland trying to get this information to um to Jewish ERS in the United States it says on the second line received alarming
• 42:30 - 43:00 report that in fur's headquarters plan discuss and under consideration all Jews in countries occupied or controlled Germany number three and a half to four million should after deportation and concentration in East at one blow exterminated to resolve once and for all Jewish question in Europe now there are details in this message that are not right like the number aren't right but that doesn't matter what matters for us
• 43:00 - 43:30 now looking back I think is that inform intelligence was making it to the highest levels of the US government that the Nazis had a plan to ghettoized Jews Deport them to the East and murder them there when this and this is this is November this is August of 1942 um when this information makes it to the state department the state department dismisses it as what they call an unrel viable War rumor there had been a lot of War rumors
• 43:30 - 44:00 around World War I a lot of atrocity stories that turned out to not be true and Americans are prone to disbelieve right so the memory of World War I always weighs really heavily here um over time though over the course of about three months the state department actually confirms this is true and they tell an important Jewish leader a man named Rabbi Steven wise who's the head of the world Jewish Congress um that the state department is not going to say anything publicly about it but they they're not going to stop him from saying anything publicly about it so
• 44:00 - 44:30 wise calls a reporter um from the Associated Press and by November 1942 you have headlines like this in American newspapers this is again Los Angeles this is November of 1942 Nazis wiping out Jews in Cold Blood um I looked up Lancing um look in the bottom right here new Nazi Purge aimed at Jews hit and then the sub headline I think is this on the subheadline of the front page of the paper the local paper
• 44:30 - 45:00 here in Lancing Hitler orders all members of race in Europe to be killed this year um so again we cannot say that this story was buried this is just blowing up um that that headline from Lancing so these stories were there but this is not what the war was about for Americans for Americans the war was about defending democracy and defeating fascism we can see this if we look at some of the propaganda of the war these are
• 45:00 - 45:30 government issued US government issued propaganda posters from 1943 so on the left Nazism is an enemy of Christianity we've got a dagger going through a Bible on the right um there's a swastika ring and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is on fire right this is what we're fighting for uh on the left there's a looming swastika in the shadow in the grass don't let that shadow touch them buy war bonds support the war effort um Deliver Us from Evil buy war bonds right what we don't see in our
• 45:30 - 46:00 propaganda is Europe's Jews that's not what the war was about we were not fighting a war to rescue Jews we were fighting a war to defeat to defeat fascism um and even I mean if you think of you know maybe the most famous American movie from this period maybe the most famous American Movie um Casablanca right it's Its Best Picture in 1942 Casablanca is a film about people stranded struggling to get visas and Jews are not mentioned right now there's there are coded messages in the
• 46:00 - 46:30 M like if you it's kind of if you know you know right there are me there's a lot that you can see in that movie that's Jewish um but um the the um any notion that we would have been fighting for Jews was um was always submerged I'm going to skip ahead to 1945 just in the interest of time um so that we have time for for Q&A to just ask so then where are we at the end of the war the exhibit ends in 1945 and actually talked to the students in the class today about the
• 46:30 - 47:00 the a difficult question is always where do you start your story and where do you end your story um there's a lot of reasons the exhibit ends in 1945 so I'll end in 1945 tonight if we want to talk about that in the Q&A we certainly can um but this is April of 1945 so the man with his hands on his hips a little bit to the right of Center is is General Eisenhower this is uff which which is a subcamp of buken Wald this is the second week of April of 1945 US soldiers start to encounter these camps right today's the 80th anniversary
• 47:00 - 47:30 of the liberation of aitz that's Soviet troops right who see aitz US troops British troops are seeing camps in Germany one of the things that Eisenhower says I think is so important when he walks into this camp in April of 1945 he said he writes back to General Marshall in the United States and he says everything that we've read to date has been an understatement every that we've read to date has been an understatement right so I've been showing you all these
• 47:30 - 48:00 headlines we had a lot of words we didn't have Visual Evidence right so the the the the images that we associate with the Holocaust and that you're so accustomed to seeing online or at Holocaust museums that's not what Americans saw as it was happening we didn't start to see it until April and May of 1945 I'm not saying that to excuse American inaction I'm just saying maybe Americans were more prone to doubt
• 48:00 - 48:30 because we didn't see things like this and no one has more access to information than Eisenhower and even Eisenhower says everything that we've read to date has been an understatement so this is April of 1945 this is May 8th of 1945 in Time Square we're celebrating it's VE day it's victory over Europe day we won right we went to war to defeat Nazism and we did and we should we should never underestimate the sacrifices that Americans made 16 million Americans served in the war over 400,000 Americans died in the war people
• 48:30 - 49:00 made sacrifices on the home front right so we're celebrating in May of 1945 as we're getting accustomed to seeing some of these horrific images we're even celebrating in ways like this Time Magazine with a bloody red X celebrating the defeat of Hitler this is May of 1945 but it's coexisting with this in May of 1945 this is Life Magazine the most popular pictorial magazine in the United States on the left you have a boy walking along the side of the road at Bergen bellson on the right images from
• 49:00 - 49:30 buen Wald this is an 8-page spread in Life magazine and the next pages are truly horrific images from nordh Housen a camp that was liberated U by American soldiers as well to the point that there's actually a really interesting debate behind the scenes among life life magazines editors saying can we even print these pictures um but we do start to see some of these graphic images Americans go to the news reels um to movies and they start to see news reels like this Nazi atrocities you can see
• 49:30 - 50:00 their army signal core um photos um and it it's held over right it was so there was so much interest um that this run of U Nazi atrocities was held over um midic death factory see SS guards executed um there are news reels during this period like na one called Nazi murder Mills that you can watch on YouTube that are I mean just horrific in their graphic imagery that Americans are seeing in in April of 19
• 50:00 - 50:30 1945 um so on the one hand the United States is fundamentally trans the United States role in the world is really fundamentally transformed by our encounter with Nazism and our efforts in in um in World War II it's not that the United States wasn't a global power before but we're a global power in a different way after World War II and also I think it's fair to say that in almost any world ity after World War II there's this looking to the United States and saying how is the
• 50:30 - 51:00 United States going to respond what's the United States going to do there are after effects of the Holocaust like the universal Declaration of Human Rights that comes in 1948 or Refugee laws that come in the 1950s in the aftermath of the Holocaust so there are ways that international law is fundamentally transformed but on the question of who gets into the United States we're not not fundamentally transformed Americans are asked in December of 1945 so 6
• 51:00 - 51:30 months after we started to see images that we today associate with the Holocaust they're asked should we permit more persons from Europe to come to this country each year than we did before the war should we keep the number about the same or should we reduce the number and you can see here that 37% of Americans want to reduce the number of immigrants who can come in and 5% of Americans want to let in more so we defeat Nazism but that doesn't solve the problem for Europe's Jews Europe's Jews have no home
• 51:30 - 52:00 to go back to after Nazism some of them are going to end up in displaced persons camps for a decade we have displaced persons camps until the mid 1950s and despite President Truman's efforts to liberalize US immigration law um it's very very difficult for Jewish survivors of the Holocaust to get into the United States we finally do pass a displaced person's in 1948 but there's a fight in Congress about how many of
• 52:00 - 52:30 those displaced persons really need to be Jews can't we let in more non-jews um so the needle on the immigration question for the United States doesn't move as drastically as we might wish that it would have as a result of our U encounter with Nazism and again I just think we have to struggle with both with both things with the ways that for many groups at many moments in history including for Jews the United States has has been a nation of great great promise and it's also been a nation Rife with
• 52:30 - 53:00 anti-Semitism and closing its doors to Jewish immigrants both of those things are part of American history and to be honest about the history um rather than just to use the history for partisan means I think it's important to to look at both sides and that's that's Central to what we're trying to do in the exhibition so um thank you for listening I think we have some time for for questions before we go up for a tour yes thank thank you and thank you so much I have a a question um that I'm curious
• 53:00 - 53:30 about because it connects my own personal history and that's what was happening in like Jewish communities at this time yeah so I didn't great question I didn't talk about this at all what was happening in Jewish communities at this time um Jews are not unified in America um Jews are never unified right um in the United States or or anywhere um Jews are actually and I I mean I think there's actually a very serious point about about Prejudice there which is matter what group we're talking about usually when we're talking about Prejudice as a group of a group there's
• 53:30 - 54:00 an there's an imagining of them as some monolithic singular thinking group that's not true of any ethnic group in the United States so Jews are anti-nazi in the United States but there's a lot of disagreement about how to proceed to try to get the US government to do more about Nazism than it's really doing some Jewish leaders uh believe we should be screaming from the rooftops and holding rallies and marches in cities across the country and boycotting uh german-made
• 54:00 - 54:30 goods and all of those things do happen at various moments and then there are other especially leaders of Jewish organizations that have that were often more assimilated in the United States who want to work quietly behind the scenes with the government to try to affect change I think um that those who want to work quietly to affect change are deeply concerned about a backlash of anti an semitism if Jews are appearing too Jewish on American streets and so
• 54:30 - 55:00 there's a lot there's really a lot of infighting there um I one of the things I think one of the critical questions for American history that I have around this exhibition that I just I don't have a satisfactory answer for myself there's other American historians in the room who might is there are there are a lot of moments of anti-nazi protest in the United States but I don't think we can say there's a movement there's an anti-nazi mass movement and so to think about in American history when do when do protests coales into mass movements
• 55:00 - 55:30 and what stops individual protests from becoming mass movements I I I still don't have a satisfactory enough answer for myself of why we don't have a mass anti-nazi movement I don't think I don't think fear of anti-Semitic backlash is the only reason but I think it's an important reason why some Jews are kind of afraid to speak up too much is they don't feel as at home in America as as Jews maybe you know in the late 20th century early 21st century did um so
• 55:30 - 56:00 there's a there's a lot of that there's a lot of that infighting um and it's the source of a lot of heat um in some really um you know all over the internet today if you follow those sort of things but often it's not really evidentiary based it's it's more based on I think using this history as a standin for contemporary itical concerns one part of the equation you you didn't talk about
• 56:00 - 56:30 was communism yes um and maybe you could say a few words about that sort of powers model of the homefront in communism Jews and communism we had the Jews and capitalism right but that that component of this and especially maybe with as the Cold War sort of unfolds too yeah great question and you're right I didn't talk about that at all uh so yeah two things one is there is an overemphasis on by by um conspiratorial
• 56:30 - 57:00 thinking anti-semites that want to link Jews and communism a notion that that all um what's the What's the phrase it might not be that all Communists are Jews but all Jews are communists right that's what they that's what they would tell you uh and um and there is a deep fear in the United States of of Communism and hatred of Communism and so we're seeing abroad the two totalitarian ideologies communism and Fascism and there are many in the United States who
• 57:00 - 57:30 are arguing that we can't live with Communism right there are many who are isolationists are basically arguing let's let's figure out how to live with Hitler so we don't have to fight against Hitler U but they they many of them don't feel that way about communism and there is anti-Semitic ideology um that links Jews with with Communism so um there is sometimes that notion of or a belief among some that fascism will be a lesser threat than communism and
• 57:30 - 58:00 communism is the real threat out there and the way that manifest often in the United States is um security concerns around Jews meaning Jews must be spies right if Jews are communists they might in the language of the day it was called a fifth column right that that we might all these fears about internal enemies and internal spies and Jews are really loyal to each other they're not patriotic Americans and they're loyal to Communism so it it jins up this fear
• 58:00 - 58:30 about the internal presence of Jews uh one of the things I didn't talk about that the exhibit doesn't cover is the Nazis invade France in May of 1940 and France Falls so quickly and Americans freak out how could France fall that quickly how is France not defending itself against Nazism and the mainstream answer in the United States is well France must have been full of spies right France must have been full of internal Nazi spies how else could have fall that quickly well and who are the internal spies here in America and how
• 58:30 - 59:00 are we rooting them out right so that fear of spies in the United States is so heavy at this time um the first the first major Hollywood movie that takes up Nazism really I mean there are a few before it but is a 1939 movie called Confessions of a Nazi spy Stars Edward G Robinson it's a really good film actually I think it holds up uh and um the movie is about a Nazi spiry ring in New York so just think about that moment in
• 59:00 - 59:30 American culture 1939 we get the biggest you the first movie with with Nazi in the title this Warner Brothers movie it's not about Nazism as a threat to Jews in Europe it's about Nazism as a threat to Americans in New York and New Jersey right that's how many Americans were thinking about Nazism and this notion of internal enemies and internal spies was really heavily weighted early on towards communism and a belief anti-semitic belief that Jews Aren't Loyal Americans that they're loyal to each
• 59:30 - 60:00 other uh yeah um thanks so much I wanted to uh just open another couple of uh elements of like um let's say popular political opinion that you haven't um addressed maybe directly building on your last couple of responses um I'm wondering if there's something to be said about um the popular front and the question of the absence of an anti-nazi movement in the United States versus the question of uh an opposition to the pers secution of European Jews um and of
• 60:00 - 60:30 course the um role of Communism um and I'm also wondering about uh the segments of um popular opinion and political culture farther to the right uh than the um you know the America firsters right so do you want to if you want to talk a little bit about American fascism or pro-nazi uh yeah yeah I want to talk about American fascism excellent thank you yeah um there's a history to
• 60:30 - 61:00 American fascism no that's that's right uh and yeah thanks for pointing that out Sean there's couple many many things I didn't talk about so there are pro-nazi organizations in the United States at this time um some of them are paramilitary organizations like the German American Bund um that um uh are German descendants of German German immigrants German American citizens who want to see a fascist America um they wear Nazi uniforms they have a flag with
• 61:00 - 61:30 the swastika they run um youth summer camps across the country that look like Hitler youth summer camps where um students are youth are doing military drills they're um listening to Hitler speeches and um singing Nazi songs they hold a very famous rally in Madison Square Garden on February 20th of 1939 because it's George Washington's birthday so the Optics there are are there's a huge flag of George Washington in the center then you've got stars and Tripes flanking George Washington and
• 61:30 - 62:00 then you've got the bun Nazi Flags flanking the Stars and Stripes right so this notion that to be a Nazi supporter is to be a patriotic American is Central to some of these organizations and then there are organizations even further to the right an organization called the silver shirts that was run by William Dudley P who was a Mystic who thought that you know God told him that he was kind of elected to bring fascism to the United States so these organizations are
• 62:00 - 62:30 out there they're not hugely popular I'm not saying that to dismiss them because they're loud uh the Bund may may have had 25,000 members there's 8 million Germans in the United States by this time or descendants of Germans right they may have had 25 so it's not that every German or descendant of a German immigrant in the United States is supporting Nazism they're not right but there are pro-nazi Fascist organizations who dream of a fascist America um and
• 62:30 - 63:00 Revere Hitler and they are they're quite loud um and they may the that movie that I was talking about Confessions of a Nazi spy it doesn't you doesn't name the Bund but it's clear it's so clearly the Bund that the Bund tries to sue Warner Brothers for liable um and they lose but it's um so there so there's a pushback to this as well and I think it's important to talk about the push back there's at that rally in Madison Square Garden in February of 1939 there's 22,000 people inside the rally supporting
• 63:00 - 63:30 Nazism and there's 100,000 protesters outside right so that matters too right that but um but you do have um you do have those Pro pro-fascist organizations um and then yes I mean the history of the popular front um and this notion of um I mean that that's all that's all mixed up in this history in ways that actually frankly in an exhibition are hard to untangle um this
• 63:30 - 64:00 exhibition is geared primarily towards high school and college students and one of the big challenges was getting high school and college students to understand the threat of Communism how the threat of Communism was perceived in America at that time and I think um so we kind of lean away from some of that um because of just some of the pedagogical challenges of exhibition also um also but the question that I
• 64:00 - 64:30 have for you it's it's more a history question than it is a uh a exhibit question but it's about um the internment because yeah right so Germans are interned in Great Britain and Jewish Germans are interned in Great Britain right and so I just hadn't quite made the connection as to why were there discussions about such a thing in the United States or was it yeah it's just a part of the history I don't know as a europeanist when we go to war you're talking about yeah yeah so so there are roundups of Italian Americans there are
• 64:30 - 65:00 roundups of German Americans there are imprisonments um I think many of them are actually in Texas um and then in camps that become German PW camps um throughout the United States so there are um so it's not it's not that there's not fear of internal enemies among Italian Americans and German Americans but it's not as pervasive as fear of um of of people of Japanese ancestry and
• 65:00 - 65:30 Japanese American citizens and I think I mean I think the crisis really gets it right I think we have to consider race and whiteness as a really critically important reason um for um for the disproportionate numbers of people of Japanese ancestry or Japanese American citizens who are um who are forcibly round rounded up many of the I mean me many there are a lot of FBI investigations of italian-americans and
• 65:30 - 66:00 german-americans but also a lot of quick releases and dismissals and I just I mean it's a moment where whiteness really does matter deeply and just a very short followup also the um also German Jews or German Jewish refugees also inter or arrested and rounded up like they are in England um not to the I don't think to the extent um that they are in in England yeah I have an ancestor who was in a in a in a refugee camp in England for many
• 66:00 - 66:30 German Jewish ancestor who was in a refugee camp in Kent for many years uh but also if you found there were ways to find your way out um quickly which is actually true for Japanese Americans too like if a young Japanese American man joined the service they were out know that story of the American je I mean German Jewish you know refugees who go into the service right or if they went um or if they were willing to go East I mean Chicago has an I'm from Chicago Chicago has an
• 66:30 - 67:00 interesting history here there's almost no people of Japanese ancestry I mean we're talking small in the hundreds before um before the war begins and by the end of the war there's 8,000 and many of them if they were willing to get on a bus and get shipped somewhere else they could leave these these camps a lot of it was about the fear of Munitions making it into the west coast and SP on the ports and things like that right so it's not um there's a lot I mean it's a
• 67:00 - 67:30 very interesting history and there's a lot of um individual stories that are quite different across the history yeah yeah are we good with time yeah yeah we'll make this the last AR they lucky uh we're going down the road his historians here so you're getting our uh respective areas of expertise um so I want to return to the central question that you're really asking us
• 67:30 - 68:00 right what did Americans know and when did they know it and um uh dovetail with some questions that have already been posed so your talk kind of went for me from Crystal knocked to this um telegram of August 1942 yeah right but as you already acknowledged the Holocaust is already occurring right so uh um uh the Warsaw Ghetto was formed in 19 40 right already and then of course you know BB and Yar happens in September of 1941 so I am
• 68:00 - 68:30 interested maybe to dovetail with the first question posed what is the Jewish press reporting in the United States and how much is that these reports how much are these reports being picked up by what we might call Mainstream press um and then to this question of Communism I think we're forgetting the fact that um uh uh by the end uh by 1942 the United States is an ally with the Soviet Union
• 68:30 - 69:00 right and um there's something called a Jewish anti-fascist committee that is transmitting information about what is happening to Jews in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union so how much is that reaching Americans as well yeah yeah no that's a great how much do we know about the ghettos how much does the general American public know about the ghetto formation and the Holocaust by bullets it's um so the Holocaust by bullets there are and so the Holocaust
• 69:00 - 69:30 by bullets is that period that begins in June of 1941 where right before like aitz is established at the beginning of 1942 um Helo one of the other killing centers is established in December of 1941 before that period in that kind of last six months of 1941 carrying into 1942 um it's a different method of killing right that historians Now call the ho cost by bullets um there are there are stories they're not huge Banner headlines they're often small
• 69:30 - 70:00 items on international news pages and very of like we'll look back at histori as historians now and we'll say oh well that actually that shooting wasn't there or like that's spelled wrong or they have the location of this so there are and and that so there are errors that we know today are errors that also frankly like pedagogically in an exhibition are hard to deal with right you're trying to teach people the history often students
• 70:00 - 70:30 who don't know the history and then to add on that extra layer to say while I'm teaching you the history let me teach you that this fact that was written in 1942 wasn't exactly right and it was actually this like that's much easier to do in a classroom than it is in an exhibition but that's an aside but but yes there are stories there the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is a huge story in the American Press in April of 1943 not as big as the Warsaw uprising itself um which comes later but the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is um is well
• 70:30 - 71:00 covered in the American Press although we don't have eyes on the ground anymore we American and all Allied reporters have been um expelled and so the Press is quite careful in a lot of these stories I mean I've read all these a lot of these stories circulate through the AP wire through the Through the Wire services so you get the same text in every paper but editors local editors write the headlines and
• 71:00 - 71:30 local editors decide where to place them right so there's variation across headlines and placement in the papers but the reporters are very careful they're getting the new second hand so a lot of these stories will start with words like we've been told that or it is said that on the Eastern Front this is happening I as a historian like my gut says that contrib to doubt how do you prove that as a historian I'm not I don't know I I never answered that
• 71:30 - 72:00 successfully enough for myself but it's not eyes on the ground and I think that's why April of 1945 is such a watershed for Americans I think that's why that's why I'm so struck by Eisenhower saying everything we've read to date has been an understatement so the reporters are very very careful to say we've been told this is happening but we haven't seen it there are a couple Soviet photographs that leak out um when the Soviets go into midic which is July of 44 um there are pictures of midic in
• 72:00 - 72:30 Newsweek magazine um and it's pictures of bodies and pictures of shoes so like the shoe displays that we see in holocost museums now you actually open up Newsweek in July of 1944 and you can see a picture that looks like that that display so uh so I do think and oh and then there's a long sorry longwinded and then you asked about the Jewish press all right so the the Jewish press has its own wire service the Jewish telegraphic agency um their coverage is
• 72:30 - 73:00 very deep there's much there there is a great deal of coverage how many non-jews are reading the Jewish wire services I don't think that many and how often does that information leap to the mainstream press I don't think that often um the African-American press in the United States does a really good job covering Nazi is M also so to read the we've done a huge project at the Holocaust Museum about African-American press coverage of
• 73:00 - 73:30 Nazism um and the way that the African-American press will cover what's going on and then use it to hold up a mirror to segregation in the United States is is fascinating and great to teach with for for students as well but so and then I I I guess the last thing I'll say is gets back to the first question like how did Jews respond Jews resp Jew Jews who had relatives there still often responded
• 73:30 - 74:00 very differently than Jews who had been here for Generations right I think the how did Jews respond question sometimes depends on how close your ties were so in the in the in the reader that Kirsten talked about the reader that a colleague and my and I did around this exhibition that has a 100 primary sources one of them is a letter from a 10-year-old kid in 1942 who's going to the Flatbush Yeshiva so it's Brooklyn and it's a je it's a Jewish school taught by rabbis um and he's it's 1942 and he's 10 years old
• 74:00 - 74:30 and the class assignment was write a letter to President Roosevelt and get him to do something for the Jews in Europe so just the fact that 10-year-olds in 1942 were being assigned that shows you the extent of knowledge at least within Jewish communities in Flatbush and this this student Bill LaVine writes this incredible letter um asking Rose and it's in the book asking Roosevelt uh to do something about this so Bill LaVine was born in 1932 today he's 93 and I talked to Bill a lot about
• 74:30 - 75:00 that letter um he's someone who's deeply involved with with the Holocaust museum in Washington and I said bill you were you were 10 like how did you know about this like how did how how often were you thinking about the Holocaust and he said to me Danny the rabbis were crying all day every day right at the Flatbush Yeshiva that was true for assimilated Jews in America
• 75:00 - 75:30 that may not have been true right so there's there's a real gradation of how closely Jews in America were tied um but um to get back to your original question the Jewish wire service a lot of it is available online um and it's a super interesting way to look at um what what could have been read actually don't know what percentage of American Jews were reading Jewish telegraphic agency you know it it would be reprinted in the Detroit Jewish news it would reprint
• 75:30 - 76:00 right right so so it circulated and got reprinted but one of the big questions of this history is like how close attention were you know how were you paying close attention or not and I think there's a lesson in that for how we understand atrocities since the Holocaust too right like how often are we paying close attention um do we understand all that we're reading as we're reading it do I do I finish every article about Ukraine that I start in the Press today well not necessarily
• 76:00 - 76:30 right um and Americans didn't necessarily behave differently in the 1940s either yeah okay thank you so much everyone thank you [Applause]