David Gates Vs Ted Wilson - Interview

Summary

In this interview, David Gates discusses his work with Gospel Ministries International (GMI) and the challenges he faces with the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership, specifically with Pastor Ted Wilson. Gates elaborates on the conflict between GMI's independent media projects and church policies, leading to disputes about operations without formal permissions. Despite opposition, he emphasizes his commitment to spreading the gospel, rejecting political involvement, and following God's directives, while maintaining that his ordination within the church remains intact despite rumors.

Highlights

• GMI has expanded its media presence globally, despite facing significant opposition. 📡
• Leadership disputes arose when GMI refused to cease operations without explicit church permissions. 🛑
• Gates argues that church politics should not hinder spreading the gospel and adheres to religious principles over bureaucratic policies. 📜
• A letter from Pastor Ted Wilson sparked public debate about GMI's role and Gates' personal standings. 📧
• Gates clarified his ordination status, countering misinformation about his standing with the church. 🕊️

Key Takeaways

• David Gates has been working with Gospel Ministries International for over 20 years, focusing on global media outreach. 🌍
• There's a growing tension between GMI's independent projects and the church's regulatory expectations. ⚖️
• Pastor Ted Wilson, though a long-time acquaintance, has distanced himself under pressure from church divisions. 😓
• Gates remains firm in his mission, prioritizing religious duty over church politics. 🙏
• He reassures his status and commitment as an ordained minister in the Seventh-day Adventist Church remains unchanged. ✅

Overview

David Gates, a key figure in Gospel Ministries International, has significantly contributed to media outreach, particularly in regions like Europe, Asia, Africa, and Oceania. His efforts, however, have been met with resistance from church authorities concerned about autonomous operations without official endorsements. Gates discusses the challenges of operating independently while being committed to the Adventist mission.

During the interview, Gates reveals tensions with the Seventh-day Adventist Church leadership, particularly with President Ted Wilson. Gates shares personal interactions where he faced demands to halt his ministry's activities due to regulatory conflicts. Despite these challenges, Gates stands by his mission to spread Christian teachings, emphasizing that his work aligns with divine instructions over human regulations.

The interview also addresses Gates' standing within the church. Contrary to some claims, he confirms his ordained status as a minister remains active and undisputed. This assertion counters rumors and emphasizes his dedication to his faith and the Adventist church, highlighting the underlying conflicts as more political than theological.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 02:30: Introduction and Background of Gospel Ministries International Gospel Ministries International (GMI) was founded around the year 2000, initially to support global work. The organization has seen growth over the years, particularly with their media involvement in Bolivia about 12 years ago, highlighting the efficiency of such media work.
• 02:30 - 06:00: Spread of Media Ministry Globally The chapter discusses the global expansion of media ministry, highlighting the ability to bring in top speakers from around the world and reach a wide audience. It mentions the establishment of eleven channels in Europe, as well as efforts in Asia and Africa. There was a particular challenge faced in Australia due to a 'big storm,' but eventually, the opportunity to start anew arose a few years later.
• 06:00 - 09:30: Contention with Church Authorities This chapter discusses the successful establishment of the first light Broadcasting Network in New Zealand, which has been operating for nearly five years. Despite its positive impact on church growth, the network has faced opposition from church authorities. The criticism appears to stem more from the fact that the network operates independently rather than from any specific wrongdoing, particularly from the Australia South Pacific Division.
• 09:30 - 13:00: Response to Church's Actions The chapter titled 'Response to Church's Actions' discusses the reaction to certain theological practices in Europe that deviate from standard Adventist theology. It mentions an official request made to the General Conference to intervene and stop these theological networks. Pastor Ted Wilson, a long-time friend of the speaker, acknowledges the speaker's efforts in growing the church wherever he goes and recognizes his commitment to the church.
• 13:00 - 18:00: Personal Reflections and Convictions The chapter reflects on the narrator's interaction with a church leader who acknowledges the narrator's loyalty to the church's mission but also highlights the presence of shared enemies. The leader, acknowledging the constraints of his position, decides to delegate the narrator's case to the vice president, demonstrating an understanding of the hierarchy and responsibilities within the church organization. The narrator muses on the leader's apparent unwillingness to personally support a cause he believes to be divinely inspired, while also comprehending the leader's prioritization of responsibilities.
• 18:00 - 21:00: Ordination Status Clarification This chapter focuses on the issue of ordination status clarification within an organization. The narrator discusses how their case was handed over by a senior figure to a vice-president named Mike Ryan, who is known for being harsh. Despite initial challenges and the harsh approach of the vice-president, progress was eventually made. The chapter concludes with a visit from the General Conference secretary, indicating ongoing discussions and developments surrounding the ordination status.

David Gates Vs Ted Wilson - Interview Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 well about about we've been working with TMI now since 2000 at least has been 20 years since we started working but about in 2000 we started gospel ministries international just kind of to for my a corporate backing to the work around the world and it's been growing when we got involved in media here in Bolivia years ago twelve years ago we realized how efficient it was we realized that that
• 00:30 - 01:00 it could it could bring in the best speakers from around the world it could you can bring you can correct issues you can teach people and you have access to all of the all of the public so then we started doing the same thing in Europe and we have eleven channels in Europe and then we started doing it in Asia and we started doing it in Africa and and then we did it we tried to start in Australia it was a little bit more difficult boy there was a big storm against it but but then a few years later we got a chance to start in New
• 01:00 - 01:30 Zealand and that thing just really took off and we have the first light Broadcasting Network there that has been now almost almost coming up on five years broadcasting in everything a single city of New Zealand plus on satellite now and it's been very very positive for church growth but it also has a storm of of Opposition coming from the division nobody accuses us for doing anything wrong they just don't like to have another Network I guess that that they don't control but because of Australia South Pacific Division and
• 01:30 - 02:00 because of Europe especially where maybe the theology is not standard Adventist theology what was happening was they officially requested the General Conference to try to stop these networks so Pastor Ted Wilson who has been a friend for many years he told me David men you have everywhere you go the church is growing we know you love the
• 02:00 - 02:30 church we know you're loyal to the the mission of the church but it you got a lot of enemies I said well they happen to be the same ones you have and and he said yes but he said I don't need any more and I he said I'm gonna turn your case over to the vice president to deal with because I cannot personally take my time to deal with I can I can understand that even though I don't understand that he would knowing that something is of God he would not support it but I do understand that that is not his responsibility primarily to do to defend
• 02:30 - 03:00 me and he has others responsibilities by all means so he turned me over he turned our case over to a vice-president that was very harsh in fact he's known for his harshness I wish it had been another vice president maybe from Africa or something but but he turned us over to Mike Ryan which was a very dealt with us rather harshly but but we did we did go forward and eventually they came to visit us the secretary the General Conference came
• 03:00 - 03:30 with Mike Ryan and they came to see my wife and I my wife and I had a meeting for about two hours with them the main the main purpose of their visit was how to stop GMI and they said you know you're working in opening up project without permission I said well we tried to coordinate we cut try to call the all the Union presidents and we do our best to coordinate and they said no that's fine enough to try to coordinate you need to ask permission before you do it
• 03:30 - 04:00 I said well that's not biblical well that's what the policy says that's only what part of the policy says the other part of the policy point four says that we must not we must specifically explicitly state we're not under the control of the church so which part of the policy now we only care about point six we don't care about point four I know but it still policy no we don't care about it you have to abide by point six and so I don't have to abide by point four we only care about point six so I said well I work with the board let me take it to my board if the board
• 04:00 - 04:30 tells me that I should sign I'll do it if my board we work as a team and if my board says no I will follow on board because I said because if I work by myself without my board I die there's a saying that if we don't hang together we would certainly hang separately and so I met with my board we have four ordained ministers and and four retired presidents of large institutions of supporting institutions and the unanimous decision was
• 04:30 - 05:00 absolutely not no supporting ministry will agree to always abide always never move forward unless they have permission that violates biblical principles that violates the spirit of prophecy clearly and we cannot abide by it I said okay well unfortunately I'm the one that takes the heat even though you all vote but I will work together with you because I have a good board and our board we stick together and that's why GMI is really a solid organization because we have good people that that keep it balanced and keep it going the right direction anyway because we were
• 05:00 - 05:30 not willing to sign that we would they asked us to close down all our ministries for 10 years and we said well does that only that television networks or does that involve the airplanes and the launches and the school everything you have to close everything down for 10 years and we can fix the problem I said I know but then we'll lose our salvation over that because when God says go into all the world and preach the gospel and thousands are coming into the church every year then I will be responsible for their blood if we close it down but the board said no and so I wrote him a
• 05:30 - 06:00 kind letter and said I we can abide by the entire kayo 505 all six points but not just point six they would not accept that they only one point six and they ignore the other five points so that they did send out a letter four years ago Mike Ryan wrote the letter he didn't sign it he just sent it out without a signature so Mike Ryan wrote a letter and he faxed it from the president that the president's tax to all the division presidents at that point because for
• 06:00 - 06:30 example the union president here in Bolivia said I don't need to make this public we're working fine together I don't want to mess up our relationship the inter-american division didn't forward it to anybody so wherever we were friends remain friends and wherever the enemies they just use it as an extra thing to throw at us nobody accused us of we're not accused of bad theology or we're not accused of of anything wrong except not obeying that policy which
• 06:30 - 07:00 requires permission before opening up a project that that is something that is the only thing that I'm aware of that there's the main complaint now I thought I thought it would be nice with the years that he would slowly drift into past history and it's been four years ago most people aren't really thinking about it too much but this recent letter from pastor Ted Wilson in which he he restates the position four years ago and in addition throws in a personal throws in his personal opinion
• 07:00 - 07:30 that he does not support me either actually that's inappropriate for a president to do that a president the responsibility of a president is to state the position of the church to state the position of the committee if there was a committee that dealt with it he can state that for a president to say I don't support it is it is totally out of place personal opinion is not something that that is is supposed to be a part of decisions by the church if we're gonna get into personal opinions
• 07:30 - 08:00 it becomes a personal matter no longer is it a denominational matter and so I believe that I believe that that was a sad thing that he said that that lowers the status of a president to say I don't either but in any case in any case they have asked him to do that I'm sure my wife and I both agree that pastor Ted Wilson normally on his own would not do that he's not he's not that kind of person but but I know that he's under a
• 08:00 - 08:30 lot of pressure the South American division is number number one he listens very carefully to the South American division president because he gets most of his votes from here and the inter-american division and so he I'm sure that he did it under pressure but that's okay he did it and because he did it then it wasn't just a letter that went to a few people it was a letter that was released on the internet one set letters you know it's addressed not
• 08:30 - 09:00 to a person either it's addressed to the public so once that letter came out I was pretty distressed about it I think I took it to the Lord in prayer and I said Lord you know we're trying to do the best to coordinate the more influence we have the more nations the stations we put up the more airplanes or more orphanages or more schools the more we do deal with it it seems like the more stability there is and even though we do our very best to work together it seems like nothing you can do can can fix the problem I've tried on several occasions
• 09:00 - 09:30 my board has tried to write letters to Pastor Ted Wilson he's never responded to a friend of mine wrote to him and he responded right away saying that we don't want to work together but when we write and say let us meet together try to work it out he never answers so as I was praying I was saying Lord what do I do I went to I want to be respectful but on the other hand and the Lord said don't feel discouraged this is one of the most beautiful opportunities you will ever have to deal openly with the issue and
• 09:30 - 10:00 so I realized that once he releases a letter to the public I'm also allowed to an improper protocol I'm allowed to respond publicly and so I wrote that letter and I held it for several days I prayed about it I changed a few things I made it changed a few words to make it softer and I tried to make it as kind and respectful as possible and yet to lay the issues as they are transparently before the people and and I believe it's been very very positive to be honest the vast majority over 90%
• 10:00 - 10:30 of the feedback from my response has been very positive I don't do things because of support I don't do political things but that letter has generated tremendous support for our ministry because the people can tell the difference in the tones of the letter one of them is a personal issue and in a denominational issue to try to stop the work and others and my response hopefully is just an open attempt in a Christian humility to try to fix the
• 10:30 - 11:00 problem I'm not sure if he will respond or not I'm not sure if he will open it or not if he does we will be delighted some of our board members will go together to meet to meet with him and we will work on see what we can do to work together that's what God wants if they decide not to answer then the consequences on their hands is not on ours it is now in the open at this point they can't wash their hands and say he doesn't want to know now the whole world knows that we want to work together but
• 11:00 - 11:30 they have not opened that opportunity so so I I'm grateful for the the feedback and I want to thank all of you that uh that responded positively encouraging it has been an encouragement most of all I just want God's people to to be nurtured to grow I want God's the mission of the church to to be accomplished I want God's people to get ready Jesus is coming very soon and there's no time for politics one thing I will not be involved in is politics politics is the
• 11:30 - 12:00 issue of pleasing people I will not be involved I'm my perfect the purpose of my life is to please God and to tell the truth and to spread the truth whether people like it or not whether hierarchy likes it or not I know a lot of pastors and high places they encouraged me they write to me I have friends at the General Conference I have fun friends and different divisions all over the world people in higher positions support it pray for me it's not it's not the whole position of the church it's a few men who would like to
• 12:00 - 12:30 control God's work I believe pastor Wilson is surrounded by enemies of God's work I believe he's I believe at the General Conference there are people in high positions that do not want to see the Advent message spread and the three angels messages spread in education in health work you know schools of theology and and so therefore I'm not really taking this personally I'm taking it as the enemies that are pressuring pastor Wilson to do this and of course he gave in to it so he's responsible for his own letter but he'll
• 12:30 - 13:00 have to report the gut on that I have to report the God too and you have to report to God some people believe that there's a lot of pressure on some people you know what it's pressure on everybody pastor Wilson's under pressure division presidents are under pressure Union presidents pastors church members everybody's under pressure we're in that we're in a shaking time it is time to make a decision right now and choose what side you're on on a side of truth on the side of liberty religious liberty on the side of
• 13:00 - 13:30 allowing people to follow their conscience and and obedience to God or on politics one pastor here in Bolivia just recently came to us and told us that we are to obey man until the Sunday law comes and then we are to obey God well I have I have news for those kind of people that leave that if we don't follow the lamb now we won't follow the lamb later we have to learn to follow what God says now if we're going to follow him later so I've made my decision I hope you've
• 13:30 - 14:00 made yours I hope this process teaches you to remain firm on what you believe and to do what God wants you to do regardless of the consequences there's great joy and knowing that God is happy with you and I have great joy and peace because I know God I make mistakes and I have to ask God to forgive me but one thing I do know is God is happy with our work and he's blessing us protecting us and there's greater work ahead and I pray that I will always please him and and if men want to work together to obey God let's
• 14:00 - 14:30 work together and if man choose not to they must go by themselves because I'm not going that direction godless question just to clear it up just just okay there are some who say that you are not a a ordained minister of the 7th ed of innis church anymore is that correct it's not correct I am an ordained minister the seventh-day Adventist Church my membership has never been in question I have my membership in
• 14:30 - 15:00 Venezuela nothing has have never been disciplined by the church I've never does never been called in a question more donation has never been but the church has the right to deal with it if they want to they have not chosen to do that at this point I have no I have not committed a sin or something that would justify taking away my ordination and so far it has not been touched I don't know what God will do allow in the future but at this moment my ordination has not been touched and I am still enrolled a member of the seventh-day Adventist Church and a faithful member of the seventh-day
• 15:00 - 15:30 Adventist Church [Music]