Debra Maher

Summary

In this insightful transcript, Debra Maher shares her observations from her 25-year career in the criminal justice system, highlighting the intersection of immigration patterns and youth justice issues. She notes the shifting focus on different immigrant communities, from Asian to Middle-Eastern and now African groups, indicating how their visibility affects societal attention. Maher also discusses the complex juvenile justice challenges faced by Indigenous young people, emphasizing the effects of early interventions by the justice system on youth involvement, especially in regional areas without dedicated children's courts. Disparities in sentencing between regional and urban courts exacerbate custody rates among Indigenous youth, compounded by bail law impacts designed more for adults than children.

Highlights

• Debra Maher reflects on 25 years in the justice system, noting shifts in focus from different immigrant communities. 📈
• The African community's visibility makes them more noticed and unfairly targeted. 👀
• Indigenous juveniles often encounter the legal system early, leading to frequent court appearances by their teens. 👶🏽
• Regional court sentences for juveniles are harsher than those in urban children's courts. 📜
• Bail laws affecting children were intended to be tougher on adults, leading to high remand rates among youth. 🔒

Key Takeaways

• Migration patterns influence justice system focus, with visible communities receiving more attention. 🌍
• Indigenous youth face complex justice challenges, worsened by early system interventions. ⚖️
• Regional courts give harsher sentences to juveniles compared to dedicated urban children's courts. 🏛️
• Bail laws impact children, originally designed to be stricter on adults. 🚨

Overview

Debra Maher brings her 25-year perspective on justice and societal shifts, observing how evolving immigration patterns influence crime narratives. From Asian to Middle-Eastern and now African groups, each wave highlights a phase where young men, in particular, face societal scrutiny, often fueled by visibility and bias, rather than criminal intent.

She delves into the intricacies of dealing with Indigenous youth, a community heavily represented in juvenile custody. Maher emphasizes the role of early interventions by police and the justice system, noting that these often begin as young as ten. This early intervention leads to a tangled path within the justice system, especially marked in areas lacking specialized children's courts.

Moreover, Maher highlights sentencing disparities between regional and urban jurisdictions, pointing out how children faced with similar offenses often receive stiffer sentences in regions. These inequalities, alongside stringent bail laws inadvertently affecting youth more than adults, paint a challenging landscape for justice reform.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:30: Tracking Immigration Patterns in the Criminal Justice System The chapter discusses the practice of tracking immigration patterns within the criminal justice system over a 25-year period. It highlights how, in the past, there was a focus on tracking drug offenses in areas like Cabramatta, influenced by Asian immigration, including the arrival of boat people. As immigrant communities settle, issues such as individuals, particularly young people, facing challenges in fitting into society have been observed.
• 01:30 - 03:00: Issues Faced by the African Community This chapter discusses the issues faced by the African community, particularly focusing on the challenges encountered by African young men. It observes a trend seen across various communities, including Middle-Eastern and Islander groups, where initial difficulties are experienced as each community finds its place, but these issues tend to stabilize over time. The chapter highlights the recent difficulties faced by the African community as part of this dynamic.
• 03:00 - 05:30: Juvenile Justice and Indigenous Young People The chapter 'Juvenile Justice and Indigenous Young People' discusses how Indigenous young individuals often face negative attention due to their visibility and perceived differences. This can be seen when they engage in typical youthful behavior, such as socializing in groups, which draws more negative attention compared to others. This scrutiny is highlighted within the context of broader immigration trends, emphasizing that there's no malign intent behind these societal patterns, but rather that they are byproducts of broader systemic and historical trends.
• 05:30 - 09:00: Sentencing in Regional Areas The chapter discusses the complex issues surrounding juvenile justice for Indigenous young people in regional areas. It highlights the disproportionate representation of Aboriginal juveniles in custody, with more than half being Aboriginal. The chapter emphasizes the challenges faced by these communities in settling down and finding their place, indicating systemic issues in the justice system.

Debra Maher Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 one of the things that I've noticed over the 25 years in the criminal justice system is that we do sometimes track immigration patterns and so when I first was a DPP lawyer we were tracking you know drug offenses in Cabramatta and the tail end of the Asian immigration boatpeople that kind of thing and as communities settle in they there are issues about people not fitting in about young people not knowing where they fit
• 00:30 - 01:00 and acting out and then of course we saw that with the middle-eastern boys and so probably and that was mostly boys then we noticed a lot of Islander waves but as each community finds its place you notice that that evens off and of course most recently it has been with the African young men I think it's been particularly difficult for the African
• 01:00 - 01:30 community because of how visible they are because of how obviously different they look so when they're doing the things that young men have always done like hanging around in a group they are much more noticeable they're much more likely to attract attention and a lot of that is negative attention that's very undeserved so that's the tracking that I've noticed with our system just following the immigration waves and there's nothing sinister about it there's nothing evil about any of those immigration groups it's all just part of
• 01:30 - 02:00 the settling in and settling down and people communities finding their place as far as the issues in juvenile justice with indigenous young people they are much more complex we have had a situation where more than half of the juveniles in custody have been Aboriginal for quite some time and sometimes the figure even goes well up over half what I've noticed in probably
• 02:00 - 02:30 the last 10 years is the earlier intervention of the justice system namely the police in dealing with young people and with what they see as social problems so because our age of criminal responsibility is 10 we're noticing that especially indigenous young people are having those interactions where they get their diversions so their cautions under the offenders act or their conference is really early on 10 11 12 so by the time
• 02:30 - 03:00 they're 13 or 14 they're really into the actual court system so that's happening quite a lot in regional areas another thing that happens in regional areas which does affect Aboriginal young people who come before the court in greater numbers is that there are no dedicated children's courts in those regional areas judge Johnston since he's been president has introduced some
• 03:00 - 03:30 circuits that do go around to some areas where a specialist Children's Court magistrate might go out and do a list once a fortnight or once a month but for the most part the local court magistrate in that area will when dealing with a child stop their local court work bring the child in deal with them sentence them and then go back to being a local court so when we visit the young people in detention centres especially the indigenous young people what we find is that the sentences they get in regional
• 03:30 - 04:00 areas are much much heavier than those that they get from the dedicated children's courts in Sydney so you know we might get a young person coming in for a break and enter who might get a caution on the basis that the magistrate will look at their record never been in trouble before we think there's a chance that you may not come back so we're going to give you this opportunity but in a Regional Court the magistrates just finished sentencing adults to jail for the same thing and
• 04:00 - 04:30 the next thing you know they've got a child in front of them and part of it is I think they still got their local court sentencing brain going and they will give the child a lesser sentence but still much harsher than they would have got if they'd been at a dedicated Children's Court and that causes a problem with how many young people in custody but of course the bulk of the young people who are in custody at any given time are on remand not serving a sentence and that's to do with the bail laws and how children interact with
• 04:30 - 05:00 police and the bail laws so a lot of the bear laws were brought in because of adults and how people wanted to be stricter with adults on bail but it does have an effect on children