Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? - KingdomCraft

Summary

In the latest episode of KingdomCraft, hosted by Redeemed Zoomer, we delve into the intricate theological debate on whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God. While Redeemed Zoomer initially presents a straightforward "no," he acknowledges the complexity underlying this theological question. The episode, showcased through the creative lens of building in Minecraft, explores views from various Christian theological traditions, including perspectives from renowned theologians like Thomas Aquinas and John Calvin. The discussion pivots around the understanding of God's essence versus His personhood as defined by the Trinity, highlighting diverse interpretations across Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Reformed traditions.

Highlights

• Redeemed Zoomer explores theological insights while building in Minecraft, adding a fun twist to deep discussions 🎮.
• Influence of Thomas Aquinas and medieval scholasticism on Western Christianity is profound 📜.
• Eastern Orthodox Christianity emphasizes the inseparable nature of the Trinity, distinguishing itself from other traditions ⛪.
• Reformed tradition explores the intellectual versus spiritual unity of God’s essence 🌿.
• Diverse theological traditions highlight that the question of shared worship is rife with rich, historical debate 🎖️.

Key Takeaways

• The question of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God is more complex than a simple yes or no 🎭.
• Thomas Aquinas and other theologians suggest some shared understanding of God's essence between Islam and Christianity 🧠.
• The Trinity, a core Christian doctrine, creates a theological distinction as it is unique to Christianity 🔺.
• Different Christian traditions (Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Reformed) offer varying perspectives on God’s nature 🌎.
• Understanding these nuances requires a deep dive into the theological underpinnings of each tradition's beliefs 📚.

Overview

Dive into the fascinating world of theological debates with Redeemed Zoomer, where discussions about God take place on a unique Minecraft platform! In this episode, we venture into whether Christians and Muslims might worship the same deity. While it sounds straightforward, this question opens up deep wells of theological interpretation and tradition.

Consider exploring the views of Thomas Aquinas, the medieval giant whose thoughts reverberate through Catholic and Protestant teachings. It's all about understanding God's essence versus His unique Christian trinitarian identity. Without dismissing the depth, we acknowledge the intellectual connections while stressing the importance of Jesus in Christian worship.

As we navigate through this thought-provoking video, we witness the rich tapestry of Christian denominational thought. From Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy and Reformed traditions, there’s a colorful spectrum of beliefs. Each holds a piece of the grand puzzle that asks – do we really worship the same God? Join us on this insightful journey through history, tradition, and belief.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction to the topic The chapter begins with the question: 'Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?' and immediately answers with a 'no,' stating the reason being that Christians worship Jesus. The speaker then introduces their YouTube channel, 'Kingdom Craft,' where they blend discussions about Christianity with gameplay, particularly the building of a church in Minecraft. During the current gameplay session, the speaker is constructing a tower attached to their Minecraft church and mentions needing to gather more resources from a location referred to as the Eastern Orthodox province of Choya. The chapter sets the stage for integrating religious discussions with Minecraft gaming.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Complexity of the Question This chapter discusses the complex theological question of whether Christians and Muslims (or believers of any other religion) worship the same God. Initially, the idea may seem straightforward but upon deeper exploration, particularly within Christian theology, it becomes evident that the issue is more intricate. The chapter references the views of prominent Christian theologians in the reformed tradition, indicating diverse perspectives and complexities involved in answering this question definitively.
• 01:00 - 02:30: Thomas Aquinas's Perspective The chapter titled 'Thomas Aquinas's Perspective' explores the theological question of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God. It highlights that different Christian theologians have varied responses to this query, but focuses on Thomas Aquinas as a prominent thinker who suggests that, in some sense, Christians and Muslims do worship the same God. Aquinas is noted as a significant and influential Roman Catholic theologian.
• 02:30 - 05:00: Eastern Orthodox Perspective This chapter delves into the impact of Thomas Aquinas on various Christian traditions, emphasizing his influence beyond Catholicism into Protestant spheres such as the Presbyterian and Reformed traditions. It introduces a notable reformed theologian, Francis Turan, aligning with Aquinas's views on theological questions, particularly the debate on whether Muslims and Christians worship the same God. The narrative explores Aquinas's dual approach to understanding the concept of God.
• 05:00 - 06:00: Three Persons of God in Christianity The chapter discusses the concept of God in Christianity, particularly focusing on the idea of God as a singular, undivided essence. It draws parallels with Islamic beliefs, where there is also the belief in one God. The text acknowledges that Christians and Muslims share many common attributes concerning God, and this is why classical scholastic theology often incorporates Muslim arguments for the existence of God, such as the kalam cosmological argument. However, the key difference highlighted is the disagreement on the identity of God between Christians and Muslims.
• 06:00 - 09:00: Catholic Position on the Question This chapter delves into the Catholic perspective regarding God's essence and identity in contrast to Islamic beliefs. It explains the concept of the Trinity, emphasizing that while God is one essence, He exists as three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Catholic view aligns with Muslims in understanding God's perfect and infinite nature but diverges on the identity and personhood aspects of God.
• 09:00 - 11:00: Eastern Orthodox Emphasis on the Trinity The chapter begins with a mention of a Minecraft server, describing a specific province within the server as beautiful, especially due to the dedication of Eastern Orthodox Christians who actively spend time crafting and enhancing the virtual space. The narrator believes this province to be the prettiest on the server.
• 11:00 - 18:00: Reformed Tradition's View This chapter discusses the differing theological perspectives on the essence and persons of God among various Christian traditions. It highlights Thomas Aquinas's approach in Catholicism, where the focus begins with the one undivided essence of God before considering the three Persons of God. In contrast, Eastern Orthodoxy emphasizes the three Persons of God as an initial focus. Aquinas's "Summa Theologica" is mentioned as a key work that starts with the discussion of the one Divine Essence of God.
• 18:00 - 20:00: Reformed Scholasticism and Natural Revelation This chapter explores the concept of God’s existence from the perspective of reformed scholastics and contrasts it with other theological perspectives. It highlights that while initial understandings of God's existence can be agreed upon by various religious perspectives, differences arise when discussing the nature of God’s essence and the relationship between the three Persons of God. The chapter considers different stances within reformed theology, referencing figures like Francis Turretin for a Thomistic viewpoint and Cornelius Van Til for a perspective closer to Eastern Orthodoxy, illustrating a spectrum of theological interpretations within the reformed tradition.
• 20:00 - 23:30: John Calvin's View The chapter discusses John Calvin's perspective from the neoclassical tradition, contrasting with other views. An Orthodox Church in an Orthodox Province is mentioned, highlighting its beauty. The narrator takes a scenic route to showcase what has been built on their server, introducing the capital city Nicopole, which means 'city of Victory.' The chapter implies that the problem seems less daunting once fully engaged.
• 23:30 - 27:00: Carl Barth's Perspective In this chapter, the unique aspect of Christianity is discussed, focusing on the concept of the Trinity, which includes the three Persons of God. This theological standpoint sets Christianity apart from other religions such as Islam, Judaism, and certain philosophical beliefs like Aristotelian and Platonist paganism, which also claim belief in God. It is noted that Hinduism, although sometimes monotheistic, does not follow a strict set of doctrines, unlike Western religions, which may lead to varying interpretations among its followers.
• 27:00 - 30:30: Conclusion on Worship and Covenant The chapter discusses the differences in belief about Jesus Christ and God between Christianity and other religions. Christianity uniquely believes in the doctrine of the Trinity, where God is one being but three persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is considered God in Christianity, which differentiates it from other religions like Islam. Islam acknowledges Jesus but does not believe he was God, thus they don't worship the same God as Christians who worship Jesus as God.
• 30:30 - 33:00: Final Thoughts on Theological Complexity This chapter explores the theological differences and similarities between Christianity and Islam, particularly focusing on the character of Jesus. It highlights that the portrayal of Jesus in the Quran contrasts with the Christian understanding as reflected in the New Testament. The chapter addresses the concept of the Trinity, a central belief in Christianity, and contrasts it with Islamic beliefs, ultimately discussing whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God depending on whether one emphasizes God's singular essence or the Trinity.

Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God? - KingdomCraft Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 do Christians and Muslims worship the same God no because the God we worship is [Music] Jesus hey guys welcome back to Kingdom craft where I build this big church in Minecraft while talking about Christianity I'm working on this Tower attached to my church up here but I need more resources so I'm going to go to the Eastern Orthodox province of choia to the north of here so I can get more resources says while I talk about a very
• 00:30 - 01:00 complicated question the question of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God or whether Christians and any other religion for that matter can be said to worship the same God now in the intro I just said you know no but it's actually a bit more complicated than that in theology there's a lot of simple answers you can give to questions but when you dig deeper you realize it's not quite as simple as that because there are prominent Christian theologians in the reformed tradition who would say that in some sense we
• 01:00 - 01:30 worship the same God as Muslims and in some sense we don't so the question is not exactly is there any sense in which we worship the same God as Muslims the question is in what sense can we be said to worship the same God as Muslims and different Christian theologians would kind of give different answers to that question so the most prominent Theologian I'm thinking of who would say that in some sense we do worship the same God as Muslims is Thomas aquinus Thomas aquinus is probably the most famous and influential Roman Catholic
• 01:30 - 02:00 Theologian from the Middle Ages but because he's pre-reformation Thomas aquinus is also very influential on Protestant Traditions like the Presbyterian tradition the reformed tradition which I am in and there are prominent reformed theologians like Francis Turan who would give the same answer that Thomas aquinus gives to this question essentially the question of do we worship the same God as Muslims so according to the Tom mistic tradition according to Thomas aquinus there are two ways we can think about God we can
• 02:00 - 02:30 think about what God is meaning the one undivided essence of God and in that sense we kind of do agree with Muslims we agree with Muslims that there is only one God and we can agree with Muslims on many of the attributes of God that's why a lot of classical Scholastic theology has no problem taking Muslim Arguments for the existence of God like the colam cosmological argument they would say we do agree with Muslims on what God is we just don't exactly agree with Muslims on who God is so the one way to consider
• 02:30 - 03:00 God is what God is meaning the one Divine Essence but the other way to consider God is the three Persons Of God the doctrine of the Trinity says that God is one being one Essence because there's only one God but God is three persons the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and this Tom mistic Scholastic tradition would say we agree with Muslims on what God is meaning the you know perfect infinite being but we disagree with Muslims on who God is okay now I've entered the eastn Orthodox
• 03:00 - 03:30 Province it looks a lot prettier than this once you get into it I promise in fact I think this is the prettiest province in my whole uh Minecraft server because the eastn Orthodox Christians on this Minecraft server are very dedicated to spending a lot of time playing Minecraft and a lot of time online um it's really beautiful I'll show you and I think it makes sense to go here because the Eastern Orthodox tradition has a different answer to this question than the Tom mytic Roman Catholic tradition because while Catholicism and
• 03:30 - 04:00 Thomas aquinus theology more generally focuses a lot more on the one essence of God Eastern Orthodoxy focuses a lot more on the three Persons Of God uh Catholicism tends to start by thinking about God's one undivided Essence and then moves to thinking about the three Persons Of God whereas Eastern Orthodoxy is the opposite if you read Thomas aquinus is Suma theologica which is like his magnumopus his summary of theology um he starts with just talking about the one Divine Essence of God and how we
• 04:00 - 04:30 know that God exists and in that sense Muslims could agree with almost everything he says in the beginning it's only after that that he moves to talking about the three Persons Of God whereas in EAS Orthodoxy the three Persons Of God and the one essence of God are like Inseparable and um there are reformed people who would take both positions um there are reformed people who would take the more classical tomisic position I'm thinking of the reformed Scholastics like Francis Turin and there is reformed people who would take more of the Eastern Orthodox perspective like um Cornelius van till and the sort of uh
• 04:30 - 05:00 neoc calvinist tradition would take more of that perspective see here's what I mean uh this is a an Orthodox Church in the Orthodox Province really beautiful here um I'm going to sort of take a scenic route so you guys can see what these guys have built on my server um okay welcome to the historical okay nicop pole is I think what they uh um named their capital city I think niccole means city of Victory or something yeah here's what I mean it's a lot it's a lot prettier once you actually get into the problem
• 05:00 - 05:30 anyway so the three Persons Of God are obviously what make what makes Christianity unique lots of religions claim to believe in God Islam claims to believe in God Judaism claims to believe in God uh Aristotelian and platonist paganism claims to believe in God Hinduism sometimes claims to believe in a monotheistic God the Hinduism doesn't have a strict set of doctrines the way Western religions do so I've met Hindus my my best friend growing up was Hindu and he claimed to be a monotheist and
• 05:30 - 06:00 just believe in one God so lots of different religions claim to believe in God only Christianity believes in the doctrine of the Trinity that there is one being but three persons the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and the son is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God there there's lot lots of other religions that believe in Jesus in some sense Islam claims to believe in Jesus but they don't believe he was God so in that sense they don't worship the same God as Christians because Christians worship Jesus as God Muslims have a
• 06:00 - 06:30 character in the Quran that they call Jesus that they claim as the Jesus of the Gospel or of the new testament which they just call inil which means gospel but their idea of who Jesus was was completely different from the Christians idea of who Jesus was so only Christians believe in the Trinity so if you emphasize the one undivided essence of God over the Trinity then you'll be inclined to say that Christians and Muslims do worship the same God if you emphasize the trinity over the one
• 06:30 - 07:00 undivided essence of God then you'll be uh sort of compelled to say Christians do not worship the same God as anyone else so where do the different Christian theological tradition Traditions fall on this question you know the more I study theology the more I realize it's less about saying this group of Christians believes X and this group of Christians believes y so I can't say Catholics believe X and Eastern Orthodox believe Y and Calvinists believe Z it's more like Catholics tend in the direction X and
• 07:00 - 07:30 Eastern Orthodox tend in the direction of Y and Calvinists tend in the direction of Z that's what it's more like so I would say that not just Catholicism in general but specifically Tom mistic Western Catholicism which is the majority of the Catholic tradition and this place is even more beautiful and developed than I last remember it when I last went here um they tend not to say they don't emphasize the one Divine Essence over the three persons but logically they first conceive of God
• 07:30 - 08:00 as the one Divine Essence and then they work their way to the three persons so for Western Catholicism there is such a there can be some concept of God that does not immediately conceive of the Trinity because in Thomas aquinus Suma theologica he talks a lot about God before he starts talking about the Trinity so in that sense they would say there is some sense in which Christians worship the same God as Muslims and some sense in which they don't that's the standard Roman Catholic POS
• 08:00 - 08:30 and that's why people like Pope Francis will say that we worship the same God as Muslims when Pope Francis says things like that people think he's a liberal guys Pope Francis is not liberal I'm I'm saying this as a Protestant I often defend the pope as a Protestant more than a lot of Trad Catholics on the internet Pope Francis is not liberal he's being a toist and he's following Vatican 2's interpretation of tomis where because of the um Unity of the one Divine Essence of God and because uh natural Revelation can give all people
• 08:30 - 09:00 the same sort of concept of the one essence of God in some sense we can claim to worship the same God as Muslims and Jews and pagans even if they don't exactly have a saving knowledge of God I'm sure that at least most of Catholicism would still maintain that to have a saving knowledge of God that's only possible through Jesus Christ it's not enough to just have a vague idea of God at least I think so Vatican 2 can be hard to interpret on this issue but traditional Tom ISM would say to have a saving knowledge of God not only do you
• 09:00 - 09:30 need to believe in Jesus Christ you need to believe in Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church which is the Roman Catholic Church for them so that's the standard Catholic position the standard Eastern Orthodox position is that really you can have no meaningful knowledge of God without the Trinity that God isn't just some vague notion of God um I remember J Dyer says that you know you might say you believe in God but what if for you that God is Satan do you really believe in God no so the Eastern Orthodox tradition once again all these Traditions are very diverse and it's
• 09:30 - 10:00 more about the direction they lean in in it rather than they believe XYZ all the time always looks like they have a nice tree farm over here this is really pretty uh but generally the Eastern Orthodox tradition leans in the direction of saying you know you can't really have a any sort of meaningful concept of God without the Christian concept of the Trinity and for my whole mission 2025 thing I'm talking about a different denomination each month and what they do best and what we should emulate them in and what I think Eastern
• 10:00 - 10:30 Orthodoxy does best and that's why I chose to go to the Eastern Orthodox Province to mine um what I think they do best is focusing on having a correct doctrine of the Trinity now as a presbyterian I don't exactly agree with them on the philio way whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Sun but I still respect their dedication to having correct trinitarian theology I think all Presbyterians should study the Trinity as much as they do even if they don't come to the exact same conclusions so now I've I've talked about about the Western and Eastern
• 10:30 - 11:00 approach to this issue what do Calvinists believe what do Presbyterians believe what does the reformed tradition believe well there is a strong tradition of reformed tomis I mentioned Francis Turan Francis Turan is the most prominent reformed Scholastic of the 1600s um and reformed scholasticism draws a lot on medieval Catholic scholasticism particularly dun scotus and Thomas aquinus but mainly Thomas aquinus for people like Francis Turin
• 11:00 - 11:30 Turin was very influential his theology textbooks were like his Institutes of Atlantic theology were used as the textbook for Princeton seminary in the 1800s and Princeton seminary was like the main Presbyterian school in America so we cannot undermine the great influence of Francis Turan so if you're a reformed Scholastic if you follow like the Westminster Confession pretty closely what does it say uh oh if you follow the Westminster Confession if you follow 16 00's reformed scholasticism you'll probably
• 11:30 - 12:00 come to a pretty similar conclusion that Thomas aquinus does the thing is that's not all there is to the reformed tradition I know some reformed people who think that theology peaked in the 1600s and every reformed thing since then has been a departure from that um in like a lot of the theological retrieval camps they're getting really into this reformed scholasticism uh which draws heavily on medieval Catholic scholasticism and that definitely is an indispensable part of the reformed tradition you can't just ignore that but
• 12:00 - 12:30 there is more to the reformed tradition than that I think in the 1500s with the reformers themselves they leaned more so in that Eastern Orthodox direction of saying there's no meaningful knowledge of God without the Trinity without the Son and the Holy Spirit now I'm not saying they were Eastern Orthodox I'm I'm saying if you put them on a spectrum of Eastern Orthodox are on one end of the spectrum and Thomas aquinus is on the other end the 1500's Calvinists were more in the middle so what John Calvin
• 12:30 - 13:00 says in his institutes and obviously John Calvin was a 1500s reformer what John Calvin says in his institutes is that yes there can be some knowledge of God but it's basically useless so in that sense we can't really say that Muslims worship the same God Muslims are right about the proposition that there is such a thing as God but that's about as far as it goes we can't really say much more than that and wao
• 13:00 - 13:30 this is a beautiful cathedral I can't pretend I haven't seen this before I've used this as the thumbnail in some of my videos but this is my first time going here like in person this is really beautiful I want to explore this so athanasius says something very similar to John Calvin athanasius says that there are several different um several different ways to know about God we can know about God from divine revelation in scripture we can know about God from his works in the world and we can know about God just from creation athanasia says this on in on
• 13:30 - 14:00 the Incarnation athanasius is I think the most prominent Church Father he's the greatest defender of you know trinitarian theology so I think athanasius has a similar perspective as as Calvin because he says there are different ways you can know about God but athus also says it's only possible through the sun through Christ yeah very beautiful place obviously there's an icon here with Yus Christ uh I I I I see c i I forget exactly what that means it
• 14:00 - 14:30 means something and okay yes this is a hey they have icons here obviously there's no icons in the Presbyterian area but this is still really cool I think they make these icons by using map art by going to the end and making them that way okay I'm not sure if I'm you know allowed to be in here I don't really know how these things work I'm just going to try and uh not go where I shouldn't go but anyway so I think aasis falls into a similar place as Calvin and then Coral Bart also deviates from the tomisic
• 14:30 - 15:00 Scholastic notion of knowledge of God Carl Bart who is part of the reformed tradition not every reformed person needs to like Carl Bart but he is a part of our tradition whether we like him or not um Carl Bart very clearly says that there is no possible knowledge of God apart from Christ so Carl Bart is drawing on athanasius there he's drawing on St athanasius there's no possible knowledge of God apart from Christ now Carl Bart towards the end of his life did say that there is greater and lesser lights that we can know God through so
• 15:00 - 15:30 he would say Christ is mainly the greater light and there are some lesser lights in creation so Carl Bart doesn't completely deny all natural Revelation but he would still agree with Calvin and athanasius that it's useless without actually accepting Christ so there's also TF Torrance who was influenced by Carl Bart he was a Scottish Presbyterian Theologian um whenever someone has a problem with Carl Bart due to his personal moral failing because he had an affair I say okay if you don't like Bart
• 15:30 - 16:00 because of that read TF torren TF torren said a lot of the same things that Carl Bart did he didn't have an affair and Carl Bart didn't have a physical Affair he had an emotional affair which is still bad it's still not something we should approve of but lots of Christian Heroes Have Had personal moral failings like Martin Luther drowned anabaptist same with zwingley and Jonathan Edward's own slaves so you know if you're going to be consistent you have to cancel all of them but Carl Bart and of Torrance and the whole broader Neo Orthodox tradition
• 16:00 - 16:30 within Calvinism does move away from that tomisic Scholastic idea that Christians and Muslims worship the same God because of the Divine Essence so what's the majority report in the reformed tradition the majority report in the reformed tradition I would say to summarize it is an acknowledgement that there is some sense in which we can have some common ground with other religions on the nature of God that we can somewhat agree with Muslims that God
• 16:30 - 17:00 exists and we can somewhat argue in the same way for why but at the end of the day it's useless it doesn't benefit them in any way not even in a common sense to say that God exists and the Revelation that God exists to them is not possible without Christ so I would say that although there can be some common ground in the reformed tradition with Muslims and Jews and pagans about the existence of God we cannot actually say they
• 17:00 - 17:30 worship the same God because the reformed tradition emphasizes the covenantal nature of worship well God has you know some sort of ontological relationship to all creation everything is created by God but God's children are only those who believe in him and the only way to properly believe in God is through Christ Jesus says Whoever has the son has the father so because reformed Christians emphasize the ental nature of worship well we would
• 17:30 - 18:00 acknowledge there is some common ground once again here's a beautiful Orthodox Cathedral I think this is modeled after some of those Russian Cathedrals and it looks like on the inside they're not done with it yet but I'm sure that when they are done it's going to look great um I'm going to try and maybe there's an entrance over here because we formed and besides the covenantal nature of worship we would agree with Thomas aquinus that there's some common ground intellectually but not in terms of worship worship is only for those in Covenant with God God and non-christians
• 18:00 - 18:30 are not in Covenant with God the mediator of the Covenant between God and man is Jesus Christ okay yes I was right it says it's under construction still looks really cool I'm still going to try and explore it as much as I can and oh yeah I see that picture again I'm not sure what this is supposed to be a picture of but it's probably something important is this St Nicholas um I have a feeling that this is St Nicholas or maybe it's St Ignatius again I I don't know my icons very well uh and I'm out of food maybe there's food in here uh at my pcusa church back home there is
• 18:30 - 19:00 always food so hopefully there's food here anyway I'm almost done with this video I keep getting distracted by all the cool things I'm seeing here so the answer to this question the answer to this video is no we don't worship the same God as Muslims or any non-christians but it's not quite as simple as that even if we can give simple answers I want to know I want people to know that the question is not quite as simple as that on online pop theology sort of the comic Sands
• 19:00 - 19:30 theology that I'm sorry to have contributed to people prefer short quick non- nuanced answers to long drawn out answers but you also have to realize it's not as simple as that and the more I study theology the more I realize that there's almost never clear answers you can simplify things and simplifying these things is a good way to help people understand them but you shouldn't simplify them to the exclusion of the nuance and complexity and man I hate how I'm talking now I'm sounding so
• 19:30 - 20:00 disgusting I'm sounding like a a big nerd but that's basically the answer the reformed tradition emphasizes the intellectual Unity that we can have with all men because of common Grace because with God's covenant with Noah there is common Grace given to all so we can have some sort of intellectual Unity but not spiritual Unity we do not worship the same God as anyone that is not in Covenant with Jesus Christ