Ep #21 | WTF is Longevity? | Nikhil ft. Nithin Kamath, Bryan Johnson, Prashanth, Jitendra & Seema

Summary

In this episode, Nikhil Kamath hosts a deep dive into the concept of longevity with prominent guests including Nithin Kamath, Bryan Johnson, and others. The discussion traverses various topics from air quality's impact on health, the potential of precision medicine, to the future intersection of AI and human longevity. Personal health choices, such as dietary habits and exercise, are emphasized as foundational, while technological advancements in diagnostics and holistic health approaches offer promising pathways. With a humorous yet insightful approach, they explore how understanding our health more intimately can open business opportunities in the wellness sector. Their conversation also touches upon cultural influences on health and the ongoing journey to balance longevity ambitions with modern life's pleasures.

Highlights

• Bryan Johnson discusses how air quality impacts health deeply, especially in Mumbai's urban setting 🚗.
• Nikhil Kamath and guests explore the intersection of AI with longevity science 🤖.
• The importance of measuring personal health data for tailored health solutions is a recurring theme 📊.
• Emphasized how community and physical activity contribute to longevity beyond diet 🚴‍♂️.
• A candid discussion on supplements and their controversial role in a healthy lifestyle 💊.

Key Takeaways

• Prioritize foundational health habits like sleep and diet to enhance longevity 🌟.
• Emerging technologies in diagnostics offer new business avenues in the health sector 🧠.
• Understanding personal health data is key to making informed lifestyle choices 🧬.
• Air quality has a profound impact on longevity, especially in urban areas 🌆.
• Global collaborations and data sharing can accelerate health tech advancements 🌍.

Overview

Kicking off with a lively discussion about air quality, the guests emphasize its overlooked impact on long-term health. They humorously critique the pollution levels in major Indian cities like Mumbai, agreeing that environmental conditions play a significant role in health outcomes. Bryan Johnson, uniquely attuned to such details, shares insights on managing one's environment effectively to foster better health.

As the conversation pivots to lifestyle choices and scientific advancements, guests explore how technology is shaping the future of longevity. From precision medicine to advanced diagnostics and AI, the potential for businesses in health tech is vast. Each guest brings their perspective on the ethical implications of these technologies and the need for equitable access to health solutions globally.

Concluding the discussion, the importance of foundational health practices—diet, sleep, and exercise—is reinforced. The guests suggest these habits are crucial starting points for anyone interested in longevity. They candidly reflect on personal experiences with health supplements, diets, and the challenges of sifting through health trends. The conversation ends on a hopeful note about future possibilities in health and longevity, as well as the fun yet complex relationship humans have with their health.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 10:00: Introduction and Discussion on Longevity The chapter 'Introduction and Discussion on Longevity' begins with a discussion around personal health choices, specifically focusing on what substances are beneficial or harmful for consumption. The conversation then shifts to exploring entrepreneurial opportunities within the health sector, suggesting a desire to identify potential business ideas that are aligned with health and longevity trends.
• 10:00 - 30:00: Air Quality Concerns and Health Impacts The chapter titled 'Air Quality Concerns and Health Impacts' begins with an introduction, featuring a conversation involving four individuals, including Brian who is visiting India for the first time. The discussion seems to focus on exploring a particular aspect of interest in India, potentially related to air quality, though the transcript provided halts before offering specific details.
• 30:00 - 40:00: Importance of Diet, Environment and Community in Longevity This chapter focuses on the elements that contribute to longevity, specifically emphasizing the significance of diet, environment, and community. It opens with a discussion about air quality, highlighting the severity of pollution in urban areas like Mumbai. The conversation points out the high levels of PM 2.5, showcasing how this environmental factor is much higher than what is considered safe or appropriate. Such air quality concerns are a critical part of understanding the role of environment in health and longevity.
• 40:00 - 50:00: Debate on Blue Zones and Longevity This chapter discusses the negative health impacts of airborne contaminants. These include neurological dysfunction, asthma, lung irritation, and overall body damage as the contaminants lodge into tissues and are difficult to remove. The conversation emphasizes the importance of considering air quality when choosing a city to live in.
• 50:00 - 60:00: Personal Health Practices and Observations In this chapter, the discussion revolves around the determinants of personal health, specifically focusing on the environmental factors such as air quality, water quality, and food. The dialogue hints at the challenges and options available for individuals to maintain health through these elements, suggesting that while water can be filtered and food can be grown, air quality is often beyond individual control, highlighting it as a crucial factor in health.
• 60:00 - 70:00: Physical and Mental Health Priorities The chapter discusses how to create a 'Blue Zone' environment within your home, focusing on factors that can be controlled internally despite external challenges. Major points include managing electromagnetic fields (EMF) and radiation, ensuring air quality through purification, and reducing toxins in water and vegetables. By maintaining these elements continuously, one can foster a healthier living space.
• 70:00 - 80:00: Ethical and Logical Perspective on Existence This chapter explores the concept of 'blue zones' – regions where people live significantly longer lives due to specific lifestyle factors. Key aspects contributing to their longevity include a blend of a healthy lifestyle, active daily routines, and a strong sense of community. Additionally, the chapter discusses ethical and logical perspectives on these factors of existence and wellbeing.
• 80:00 - 90:00: Discussion on Human Ambition and Intelligence The chapter titled 'Discussion on Human Ambition and Intelligence' questions the concept of 'blue zones'—areas where people allegedly live longer, healthier lives due to certain lifestyle and environmental factors. The speaker is skeptical about the existence of these zones, suggesting that they might be artificially created through selective data representation. This involves mapping certain groups while omitting others from the same area, thus falsely suggesting such zones exist, representing a classic case of cherry-picking data.
• 90:00 - 100:00: Challenges and Opportunities in Health and AI The chapter explores the concept of 'blue zones,' areas where people allegedly live significantly longer than average. However, the speaker expresses skepticism about the existence of such zones, citing a lack of convincing data. While places like certain regions in Japan show higher lifespans, the notion of special 'blue zones' with unique lifestyles that contribute to longevity remains unsubstantiated. This skepticism highlights the need for more robust data to confirm the existence of these zones.
• 100:00 - 110:00: Role and Effectiveness of Algorithms in Health The chapter titled 'Role and Effectiveness of Algorithms in Health' includes a conversation involving Brian and another speaker regarding air quality. There appears to be a discussion about the air quality in New York, with the speaker noting they have never bothered to check it. The feedback implies that the air quality is generally good throughout the US. The conversation also includes a polite inquiry about mask usage, indicating considerations of health safety perhaps in the context of health discussions.
• 110:00 - 120:00: Biotechnology and Health Analysis The chapter titled 'Biotechnology and Health Analysis' includes a discussion that seems fragmented but involves a conversation about health perceptions and emotional responses to health conditions. The speaker expresses gratitude for emotional support and describes physical symptoms such as a burning sensation in the lungs and throat. There is also mention of a precautionary approach to health, possibly related to biotechnological health solutions aimed at addressing or diagnosing these symptoms.
• 120:00 - 130:00: Debate on Supplements and Health Techniques The chapter discusses the impact of pollutants on the body and the challenges of maintaining health while traveling globally. Brian shares insights on the ease or difficulty of being constantly aware of health threats, suggesting that it can actually simplify decision-making.
• 130:00 - 140:00: Challenges in Health and Longevity The chapter 'Challenges in Health and Longevity' discusses the systematic approach to preventing bodily harm, which is likened to programming an algorithm with the objective 'don't die'. It examines how identifying and mitigating damage sources can guide important lifestyle choices, such as dietary decisions, the usage of plastic or glass, and other health-conscious habits like water filtration and mask-wearing.
• 140:00 - 150:00: Final Thoughts and Takeaways This chapter discusses the importance of clean air environments, especially when exercising indoors. The narrator shares an experience of measuring air quality in a hotel gym, finding it to be poor despite the presence of air purifiers. They highlight the risk of pollutants entering indoor spaces and being inhaled during physical activity, emphasizing the need for awareness and decision-making regarding indoor air quality.
• 150:00 - 175:00: Woman's Perspective on Longevity The discussion revolves around the use of masks, specifically N95 masks, in improving air quality and reducing pollutants. The mask's efficiency in filtering PM 2.5 particles is highlighted, with claims that it can eliminate 95% of such particles. The conversation briefly touches on the decision-making process related to mask usage and air quality, underscoring the significance of protective masks in ensuring better breathable air. There is also a note on how even more efficient masks like the 99 would offer better protection.

Ep #21 | WTF is Longevity? | Nikhil ft. Nithin Kamath, Bryan Johnson, Prashanth, Jitendra & Seema Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] okay so what I want for today a to figure out what to put in my body what not to put in my body the second question I want answered in this realm of Health where is the opportunity to start a business and what business should they start [Music]
• 00:30 - 01:00 ready [Music] rolling ready okay full house today uh thank you all four of you for doing this Brian welcome to India for the first time what is the one thing you're looking at more than anything in India
• 01:00 - 01:30 right now air quality how bad is it I can't really see you over there this is Mumbai we're mostly from Bangalore so it's okay so what does that mean so what is the number right now uh the the PM 2.5 I think it's 130 140 which is over 10x uh what is reasonable what what is appropriate so what is it doing to
• 01:30 - 02:00 me uh these contaminants uh wreak havoc on the body it can create neurological dysfunction it can cause asthma it can cause lung irritation it just like it's whole body damage it gets into tissues it lodges in it's very hard to remove it so it's not like something the body just cleans it out it's it's very hard to remove so you really don't want to mess with these Airborne contaminants so if I were to pick a city to live in how big a role would air quality playe ch choosing
• 02:00 - 02:30 which one close to top three what would be the other options what would be top one two and three a for health mhm I don't I don't think that really I mean air quality water quality maybe air water and food Brian do you agree I guess like you I was thinking through this because you know you can filter almost any water and get it to be pure uh with food you can grow your own food but with air you have no control mhm uh you're in a system
• 02:30 - 03:00 MH so there's this idea of can you make at least your home a blue zone right you can't externally change anything so it's usually EMF you know some radiations at home and then there is uh the air which can be largely purified if if you're in a very closed environment and uh toxins in water and toxins in your vegetables if you can manage these on a continuous basis in your home you can at least make a a a Blue Zone kind of environment at
• 03:00 - 03:30 home so is that what is working for blue zones they have these three things going for it I think they in addition to that they Define two other important aspects right one is uh uh how active they are through their daily lives and uh U second aspect that they emphasize is community right and how much of uh connectedness do they kind of is is emed
• 03:30 - 04:00 into their way of living I think these are the two other other than food and I see personally I'm not very convinced on the idea of blue zones um there's a lot of data out there which suggests that blue zones are created they don't exist so classic case of Cherry pecking and so what they have done is they have mapped certain groups of population and omitted the same subset of people from the same area just to highlight that there are blue zones that exist so there's a there's a lot of
• 04:00 - 04:30 uh controversy around it also so at this point I'm not very convinced that there are actually blue zones do people exist that live longer than your average lifespan certainly take example of Japan um there are certain places in Japan where they have you know even higher lifespan than rest of the Japan but Are there specific uh blue zones around the world where there's some sort of a special magical D or some sort of a magical lifestyle um the data is not convincing enough do you agree
• 04:30 - 05:00 Brian is it okay if I put a mask on yeah yeah okay is that okay yeah yeah yeah sure yeah what is the air quality in New York for example uh is it is it I mean I never really bothered to look for it uh but what's the air quality in New York it's good throughout the US ah thanks yes yeah the US does a good job air
• 05:00 - 05:30 quality uh generally like for in in uh yeah but yes oh yeah actually thank you let's see test this out you feel better that's thank you thank you foring my emotional needs feel so much better this will knock out 95% no but uh just curious I mean were you feeling something or this is more precautionary I mean I feel it it burns my lungs burn my throat and then I also just know like
• 05:30 - 06:00 these level of pollutants it really does wreak havoc on the body and isn't this a tough way to live Brian like you travel the world you're always on the move if you were to worry about everything that can harm you is it easy to live like that you know what in many ways it's easier because it um it it makes decisions for you
• 06:00 - 06:30 So when you say it what is it like the the algorithm so like if if the objective is don't die then it's just a systematic process of what inflicts damage upon the body and then how do you mitigate that damage like how do you block it or you know how do you mitigate it and so in that regard it uh it the process predetermines what foods you eat if you'll drink out of plastic water bottles or not whether you prer glass if you filter your water if you wear a mask
• 06:30 - 07:00 or not uh if you go out and exercise like this morning in the Hotel this morning um we we took this air purifier and went to the gym they have this beautiful gym and I wanted to work out but we measured the air qualities in the gym are really really bad and so it has this filtration so the air from outside is getting in so people are in there doing this really high exertion deep breathing and they breathing all these pollutants they have no idea the thing is indoors so like it uh it just really helps streamlined decision making across
• 07:00 - 07:30 every aspect and does the mask change that the decision- making no the quality of air you're breathing significantly yeah so this will reduce 90 so the P at the PM 2.5 so it's look at this guy over here it's 134 it will knock out 95% of it really yeah what kind of mask is it uh n95 or like anything we used during yeah those are the that's what we needed yeah so like a 99 would be better but we
• 07:30 - 08:00 just had we had 95s on him is that what the 95 number is for it removes that that right Brian another question for you look at me look at him look at him and look at JC who looks the healthiest take a minute well is there data to support D is there no dat who looks the healthiest they're all different age groups yeah don't answer B me come on who looks the healthiest I'm
• 08:00 - 08:30 not asking for number two three and four number one man that's what puts me in a tough spot yeah um the question upon upon what marker so there's like you know overall health so if you were to take an aggregate of all Health markers yeah not the markers the Optics of it who looks healthy oh who else who who looks healthy uh you can look at him too he's quite fit I mean Mo most people make assessments of Health based upon skin
• 08:30 - 09:00 right and it's okay it's okay nobody's going to feel bad so well we can't see your skin yeah Ian yeah Skin's like the one of the biggest reveals of Health right like you can't fake skin why is J looking down I'm okay I'm agreeing with what he's saying he's he's right so who is it
• 09:00 - 09:30 we're all friends here we're all we're making we're making friends he's not [Applause] going maybe May pick the worst then you would not be making friends if you pick the best you're making a best friend yeah at the end of this when we're roasting each other that's the time we're making friends okay so maybe we start off where each of you can do two minutes about what you do in life and by Health cuz I'm guessing Brian has not
• 09:30 - 10:00 got context yet ji would you like to go all right so hey guys my name is j chy you can call me JC and uh yeah we have a health and wellness company that is in the business of making people fitter and healthier and uh fun thing I didn't know Brian you were coming here we bumped into each other I think a couple of times so AA Summit I was there yeah there yeah and I think Jeff from your team was in touch with us cool
• 10:00 - 10:30 great to meet you great to meet you prant yeah I'm Prashant prkash uh otherwise my day job is that of a VC right but uh in the last four five years have uh kind of started uh you know kind of this detour into uh looking at uh the idea of precision medicine so which is uh you know um I mean of course there are names like medicine 3 .0 and other
• 10:30 - 11:00 stuff right so what do you need for that you need uh a strong science institution and that's where founded U co-founded longevity India uh in Bangalore as part of uh the Indian Institute of science which is the Premier Institute and uh so they will anchor all the science around longevity and then biopak which is the organization that will lean upon that science but will put that science into practice right so and what does that
• 11:00 - 11:30 mean to put it into practice can we be a bit more a lot like what you do BR can you be a bit more data driven and a bit more uh longitudinal in how you work with your uh clients and number three can you be more systemic and and can you rely more upon systemic and cellular data uh and not just on blood biochemistry so I guess we're integrating a lot of this into to uh I
• 11:30 - 12:00 guess a new approach to how people in India can start viewing uh preventive predictive and proactive Health yeah I am uh Nathan I'm the founder of uh brokerage F it's called zeroda and uh also run like a investment fund called rain matter and through rain matter Health we partner with startups like fitter and we invest and and I'm
• 12:00 - 12:30 also a customer of JC so yeah that's me and uh I'm better known as nich's brother so tell him about a little bit about health so n is like this obsessive workout guy yeah I don't think he eats as many pills as you but maybe like 60% yeah I would say 30 30 tablets a day uh yeah maybe maybe 20 to 30 tablets not prescribed by me not prescrib and
• 12:30 - 13:00 works out for a long time every day and he had a health Calamity earlier this year so he had a stroke even though he was very healthy so I'll come back to you on that like you know all this work that has gone into being healthy and don't die yeah what would you do if you fell sick tomorrow so we generally speaking uh I'm really humble about the pro the approach like the we we're probably in the very early these stages of Health and Wellness we probably know
• 13:00 - 13:30 very little and we'll probably look back just in a few years time and think we're very primitive right now and so it's those things happen and uh it would be expected like those things are okay so we would just uh get back to work and figure out why it happened and what we can do about it but um we're definitely I think in the very very early stages of medicine like true anti-aging medicine so so yeah I would
• 13:30 - 14:00 just take it with a in stride yeah this conversation is not me asking you guys questions everybody talks to each other like always so feel free whoever wants to lead can start uh yeah I I I mean I had the same question about last October last November I did Iron Man like I was I was really at my fittest I was ever been and January I
• 14:00 - 14:30 was met with a stroke it was it was so accidental and it was it was um strange that I had to go through everything that I gone through this year yeah and uh and this is like really the first time I guess I'm in front of a camera uh after the stroke and uh so I mean I want to ask as in how how have you you know even though it's early you know just said that it's early
• 14:30 - 15:00 in um you know understanding human body Etc but uh how have you I mean what would you do if you got a stroke or you got a heart attack and are you measuring everything in your body to ensure that it doesn't happen yeah I mean I'm I'm the most measured person in human history right yeah so we we everything we can measure we do measure even if the measuring that thing doesn't have a high
• 15:00 - 15:30 like even if it's a new form of measurement like DNA methylation became a new form of measurement a couple years ago and there wasn't much data to show that was really really useful but we went all in and I've been measuring my methylation patterns every week for the past couple years okay so more than anyone out there and so yeah we we take the opportunity to measure as much as we can because we think the long-term data sets are interesting so like if we can find patterns like what would lead up to stroke or what would lead up to heart attacks and like there's the common
• 15:30 - 16:00 things you look at you know like the plaques or like you know other the basic things like that but um we do try to piece the world together with data more than anything else so Brian uh how much do you rely on metabolites and uh the multiomics right so do you measure certain uh uh you know metabolites specifically as markers or indicators right we do yeah we've also bio uh stored in uh sample a whole bunch of
• 16:00 - 16:30 samples for future analysis right so um yeah metabolomics is like a a new emergent field I think I think for the audience you have to give context with everything if you say what is metab I think you need to explain what are you talking so met metabolites are so when you uh actually have uh these enzimatic reactions in your body what is enzimatic en okay let's start with uh what what happens when you uh take your food right
• 16:30 - 17:00 so when you take in your food there is biotransformations that happen in your gut what is biotransformation where is your where your your gut organisms actually convert that food into certain uh byproducts right and and uh those go through a series of enzymatic reactions there are enzymes which are also released in your gut and from that what you get is proteins and these other uh um by products right so and when you
• 17:00 - 17:30 measure your metabolites you actually measure uh you know um if you think of this as a series of uh steps and in a reaction right your metabolites kind of give you levels of different components in that equation so by being able to see uh not just the end product which is in your blood uh which is blood chemistry measures the end product which may not always be indicative of what's Happening in that process right between uh when
• 17:30 - 18:00 you consume your food to the final uh uh product so being able to measure metabolites is a more fine grained way of looking at what it's it's it's it's a more precise uh way of looking at what's happening uh in in in the in between steps is that something that is happening at scale now is everybody testing yeah you can get it uh so in India you couldn't and that's what we
• 18:00 - 18:30 setting up with biop and a lab but in the US I think you can there are Labs now that can yeah we we start with these are that's a really Advanced measurement so we start with basic things like if you're fat you're at higher risk of dying you know if um if you have uh poor blood glucose control that's also bad so you take like the things you can say with a high degree of confidence and you start with those then you work your way down to say where like these kinds of things it's emergent so it's like kind
• 18:30 - 19:00 of interesting we're not quite sure where and how and why but we really start with the basics of like is is uh getting sleep good or bad is getting exercise good or bad is eating you know like certain kinds of foods good or bad I think for most people that's where they're at in life is like they there's even on the basic things there's so many questions like you go out and search the world for health gurus and everyone says something different how do you even know what's right what's wrong it's very hard to parse so I think as a society like we we don't really know the basics of
• 19:00 - 19:30 Health anywhere uh why don't you tell us a bit about how you got to be who you are I think that's an interesting story too cuz you don't sound like a very traditional person or a normal you know yeah yeah something happened there so tell us something traumatic something traumatic must have happened yeah uh so yeah I I um I went to Ecuador when I was 19 years old I was a missionary for my church mhm and it was uh my first time
• 19:30 - 20:00 being exposed to poverty and I lived among extreme poverty for two years and I just was so moved by the difference between what I had in the US and that poverty what era was this and how old were you it was in Kito I was 19 years old and so it's just like such a dramatic change as a kid to be in these poverty circumstances and I thought you know what like and back home did you come from a rich household no we were like middle to low income and you a
• 20:00 - 20:30 yeah yeah my mom single mom five kids so you went from being born in a certain kind of family being raised Mormon to going to Ecuador when you were 19 and then yeah and then after that I I came back to the US after being in Ecuador and I was trying to figure out like what to do with life and um I just had this Burning Desire that I wanted to do something that would benefit the human race like the people benefit the human race
• 20:30 - 21:00 right like the the people around me were really blue collar workers like they you know um they weren't entrepreneurs they weren't Engineers just blue collar America can I ask why like why benefit the human race uh because there was like two paths I saw one is you could get a job make money and retire like everyone around me had done that is like that you just follow this life path you don't dream big you don't do different things you just you you're a Mormon you do life
• 21:00 - 21:30 in a certain way and you retire it's like it's a very standard way of doing life or like go out and carve your own path and do something unique and I thought that's cool and like Ecuador was omnipresent on my mind of like these people just by random luck got born into this environment and you know their life is pretty limiting like it's hard for them to get out of that situation and it felt like that uh it might be a a useful
• 21:30 - 22:00 Endeavor to do something that would benefit these people right so you went to Ecuador wanted to help human race for whatever reason and then yeah and then so the goal was make a whole bunch of money by age 30 and then have Liberty to spend money doing something so I started becoming I wasn't good at anything so I thought did you know you're going to spend the money to help others before you made the money yes that was the goal yeah I told everyone around me that's quite rare yeah I've said I'm going I'm
• 22:00 - 22:30 going to make a whole bunch of money by 30 and then with that money I'm going to do something interesting for the human race like something useful it's almost against maso's law of hierarchies I feel like you have to reach that level before you think of helping others you kind of have to like be self-sufficient first right and then how did you make the money I I built brain tree VMO a payments company okay and I I sold that and I made 300 million on the sale on the sale but this was at what age was it when you got the money 34 yeah yeah so
• 22:30 - 23:00 then it was like you know okay I said I would do this now I'm here and now now am I going to deliver or am I going to go buy a yacht and get drunk and do drugs and you whatever no for a bit no never uh not not even the the medicated the the doctor prescribed like the ketamine and MDMA and shrooms and I mean so when uh when I was 4 so yeah in one year's time I sold my company I got a
• 23:00 - 23:30 divorce I left my religion and I came out of depression so all in one year's time okay was the divorce because you got money uh it was a long time coming and I think it was the Catalyst of the event right and so it was just kind of like h a reset in life like it's rare you get these opportunities and so it was like this genuine question like what is existence like wholesale what is happening and also what is money I keep asking my myself this question but money
• 23:30 - 24:00 is your ability to buy Freedom maybe through a divorce entirely I guess you got the confidence to redefine and say yeah now I can exactly redefine myself You' be like you know when I made money I wish somebody would have given me advice of like let me just sit you down and tell you money is a nightmare it is like on so many levels explain like it it um it warps all of your relationships it's like EV every person in your life now has it's like the it's
• 24:00 - 24:30 like you have three people in the relationship it's like you your money and the person so you're like in this polyamorous relationship that's a interesting point that everything gets colored now in all relationships it's like just like something simple like your niece has a birthday party and it's customary for like a $10 gift it's nice so your niece is like oh my rich Uncle he certainly can afford a
• 24:30 - 25:00 $500 gift and so if you give a $10 gift they're like he's a bastard like you know like what's he doing like he has so much money why can't he give me a $500 gift or you're out with friends for dinner and the check comes and everyone's like eyeballing each other and it's like why didn't you grab the check you have the most amount of money so it's just like it colors everything and then it gets more more complicated with dating and stuff like that but it really is like um if you could have it
• 25:00 - 25:30 another way you don't make the money and don't get the importance that comes with money would you prefer that really I mean I think honestly in like parallel realities if that were the case I would rationalize it in my mind and make a case for it like would you I mean I think in any situation we're all going to make the argument that like whatever situation we're in now is the best situation even when it's not or like objectively not but if you were to take yourself out of the picture and think in the third person a man who made 300
• 25:30 - 26:00 million and is getting a lot of attention from women to his niece to his friends and importance in that peer group versus somebody who didn't make the money and is another person if you had to pick one binary Choice who would you pick whose role would you pick yeah I flip the coin like honestly I think nobody's saying you make the choice so you can't really prove a point you're just making the choice but uh remember and the Independence that you have now and your
• 26:00 - 26:30 ability to kind of you know kind of Define and redefine and do things your way yeah if money without money would you still be able to do that so like this is the thing where I guess what I'm I'm basically I'm calling on myself like I don't care what I have to say about this question because whatever I say is total I'm just making something up on the Fly I learned this when I was depressed like my brain would say you're depressed life is hopeless you should kill yourself I mean it just
• 26:30 - 27:00 said that constantly what age was this was it after post money pre money pre yeah 24 to 34 so I just learned through that process to distrust my brain and so if we talk about like um what are the effects of junk you know of uh like junk food on the body like we can answer that with scientific analysis and say Here's the following effects on the following things great if you ask this open-ended subjective question of like what is a parallel life of you without money which one do you prefer like we're all just
• 27:00 - 27:30 going to make up but there's no way to base that in any kind of reality so like our answers are basically a mirror of our own psychology they don't reflect truth and so I guess what I'm saying is my mirror yeah is I would call on myself oh your [Laughter] muskar I'd wear a mask and hide my attention I'd hide behind a mask so what happened after 34 after money uh so then how did you stumble upon Health as the thing or longevity or to not die
• 27:30 - 28:00 um so one I had started this process when I was depressed of like how do you solve a really complicated problem of depression sorry I I digress but before we go there you're 34 you made $300 million which city are you in uh that was Chicago Chicago you're living in a nice apartment you get divorced what is the first thing you you doing yeah I moved to New York okay and
• 28:00 - 28:30 um I I learn that I love to dance dance I've never danced in my entire life okay I find out one night I love it and how did you find out uh I was at a club with friends like we were we at a business conference and they're like hey do you want to go to the club I'm like what does that mean I've never been to a club before you had never been to a club at 34 no I get up until 19 cuz you were Mormon but between the ages of 20 T and 34 no a bar no a
• 28:30 - 29:00 restaurant yes yes yes why didn't you go to a bar uh in Mormon culture you don't drink but you had left being Mormon right uh only at 34 I mean I left I left before but I was still in the family structure but we just didn't hang out at bars right it's not something we did or clubs or yeah okay so you moved to New York went to a nightclub loved it was actually in Morocco I at this
• 29:00 - 29:30 business conference and they're like hey we should go to this club and um I it was actually it happened when I was trying to decide whether to get a divorce and um I had a drink or two uh I had never really had alcohol and so I felt a little a little buzzed you like I liked it it was fun yeah it was cool and nice and um I just had this feeling that uh wash over me that it was that my kids would be better off if we
• 29:30 - 30:00 were divorced MH than if I stayed in the marriage because the only reason I stayed in the marriage was for my kids and I had this idea like a divorced household is damaging to kids and it's better to stay together so I was like can I stick this out the kids get old enough and they move away and uh just like this never ending complicated question and I had this realization that uh like they're better off if we do this and now you're a good-look guy I mean not everybody can see because if
• 30:00 - 30:30 have you dated a lot lot of people post post money divorce getting fitter better looking yeah yeah yeah what do you look for in a partner cuz it's complicated right like very I'm very curious who's checking as nighttime tions why is that the first thing you thought of clearly you asking him the wrong question he's posting his butt naked pictures on social media what do you think that's for yeah he's single and
• 30:30 - 31:00 available yeah so actually next week uh there's going to be do you know po Market yeah no yeah they're launching a market on my nighttime erections wow and how how are they gonna I mean how are they gonna the predict that yeah the over under is two hours and 12 minutes my Baseline measurement and then I'll measure one time per month last week of the month but I think it's I I think it's such a cool thing that this concept
• 31:00 - 31:30 of so like you have on one side sperm counts to going down fertility is going down birth rate's going down sexual activity is going down um like all these indicators of like of humans having sex and and you know like having babies they're all going down right and so this the nighttime erections is like a a a counter to these of like sexual Vitality is important like sexual Vitality Health
• 31:30 - 32:00 fertility uh all that stuff and so I'm glad that it's like it broke through the Zeitgeist that now there's a market on it so I think it really is a really good representation of society of like we can bounce back with this vitality and not be beat down all these different markers which it's just not I mean the human race survives or dies based upon our ability to replicate so you think is this one issue on why countries go through this pop potion or why countries are going through this population
• 32:00 - 32:30 decline I mean there's probably quite a few things driving it but like it's guess it's a fact we're having less sex less fewer babies um it's just like they're all down you I I you know you kind of are very anal about taking any kind of supplements no no not any kind of supplement I'm simply saying like it takes supplements which have enough evidence like for example I'm I'm I
• 32:30 - 33:00 favor more supplements which you have deficiency of something that you can observe in your blood or on a DEA right but if you're talking about taking supplements that are working at a mitochondrial level it doesn't have any proof it doesn't have any validation for example if we talk about Ned precursors today we don't know if those precursors are actually getting absorbed in your system are they making their way to MIT contrea today we don't even know what are the Transporters that are going to transport
• 33:00 - 33:30 Ned from your bloodstream across to cell membrane can you elaborate and say what is NAD a little bit I've tried NAD once uh in Dubai on an IV and I felt so bad while I was taking it it felt like my chest is heavy and it was so uncomfortable that I would never take it just for that reason but what is any so in your body there's a process which we refer to as metabolism and your body body produces something called as ATP so
• 33:30 - 34:00 take whatever you want to whether it's glucose or fatty acids and we'll exclude protein for now the metabolism of the process end result is ATP and in between because the process is exothermic but it also requires how do I explain it without getting too technical no I think see there is there's an a whole oxidation process yes so so you have a Redux process so Ned thank you so all the biochemical Pathways in the body they are coupled together so for
• 34:00 - 34:30 everything think idiot think I'm a 10-year-old idiot with no idea explain like that so your cells have nucleus you are made up of trillions of cells and uh your cells have different kinds of organal one of them is mitochondria right so everybody knows that mitochondria is a Powerhouse of the cell MH right so inside mitochondria there's something called as NAD NAD plus yeah and you have NAD right so these are basically electron donors and receivers
• 34:30 - 35:00 so when a chemical reaction has to occur these donors are needed to complete that reaction okay so they participate in something what we call as a reduxx reaction and without these supplements sometimes uh these Redux reactions cannot happen and so it reduces the metabolical uh the mitochondrial efficiency now I understood yeah much better but but I think the added complic to that is it's you don't know if
• 35:00 - 35:30 it's uh better to take NAD nadh right or the precursors to that right yes so uh I think there's you know a lot of Trials going see is needed very deep inside mitochondria so inside mitochondria also you have inner membrane which is where primarily the oxidation of fatty acids happen which is where majority of your fat is getting burn and there you need NAD NAD plus okay nadh so you can't
• 35:30 - 36:00 basically Channel an overal intake of NAD NAD plus make it go through your digestive tract and let's assume that it passes your digestive tract uh you know without any problems goes into your bloodstream there's a semi-permeable uh semi-permeable membrane which it has to cross and then once it once it's inside the cell you can't tell that hey you have to to go sit inside the inner membrane in the mitochondria there's no
• 36:00 - 36:30 way we can't navigate that and there's no test so basically should I have NAD or should I not see there's another problem right you can't measure yeah you can't because what you see in your blood is not necessarily what is there let's say on your mus in your muscle tissue right where you really need it so just because you have NAD injected through your most blood it might not be getting to the Target where what what's your take on this you take ener so yeah there's there's little kids that have a ton of
• 36:30 - 37:00 energy there's old people who are almost about to die little kids have high a lot of this stuff old people have very little of this stuff and so the question is if you give more of this stuff to old people does it help their improve their health so you take I take it so there is one more uh you know and how do you take it you take a NAD Ivy no there's not there's not good evidence that's a good modality I take it via capsule form I take yeah and if I were to buy one where
• 37:00 - 37:30 would I get it yes I meas I measure my levels I do intracellular NAD I do a blood spot card and we Peg the levels to age 18 so if there's like the point is accurate like we don't like does it have longevity benefits it's still an emerg science NR is available yeah yeah you can you just buy it online or something pretty pretty popular there's an entire N8 plus N8 plus so you get precursors precursor so you get nmn so NN then translates I take uh you know some the
• 37:30 - 38:00 precursors NN you take no no I don't take n he doesn't take NN as a precursor hey isn't nmn okay nmn capsules you get yeah so uh you know just to kind of I mean the membranes you was talking about and you asked about this metabolites right so you can uh slightly more of course this is Advanced lab work and this is what we're trying to do at biopak can you measure the some of those levels which give you an indication is it are you where where is
• 38:00 - 38:30 the bottleneck in in that conversion process that he was talking about you know as you go through these they call them complicated multiple complexes in your mitochondria right as you go from complex one to two to three uh there are different uh reactions that kind of take you from one complex if there is insufficiency in a particular thing that can take you from one complex to the other complex you have a dysfunction right can you measure that and can you then Target and see what do you fix
• 38:30 - 39:00 right that's I think a more precise way of doing it I think we're getting there can ask another question maybe it helps maybe it doesn't there isn't enough signs can it hurt I mean look that is a bad policy and that's not how you base science on because there's a lot of things I'm not thinking like that I'm thinking as a supplement because I've tried it that's the entire supplement industry based on take it it won't hurt Plus you yeah but it NAD Plus or n
• 39:00 - 39:30 can't really hurt you most of the things uh that don't uh actively bind to uh you know let's say receptors and they travel through your bloodstream if they're not getting absorbed they pass through your stool or PE so in in a tradational manner because nmn is recognizable by the body whether the body needs it or not depending on it will just flush it out so most of the time you're eating it it's going out okay I think we'll come back to Brian
• 39:30 - 40:00 now 34 liquidity event went to a nightclub in Morocco had two drinks L it I like this transition what did you do after two drinks um I I made the the conclusion I'm going to get a divorce and the kids are going to be better off and then I move my hips was there something else that catalyzed that decision I just have been thinking about it for years and just finally hit and I moved my hips at that very moment and I just it was like this par ing of freedom from all the things holding me
• 40:00 - 40:30 captive and uh I I spent the next I guess ever since then for it's been like 10 years now I've just danced non-stop like I just love to dance how often do you get to Dance I mean when I was in New York like multiple times a week yeah and where do you dance we'd go to these big warehouse parties so like you know hundreds of people great EDM um and we dance we start at 12: or 1 and dance till 6:00 or
• 40:30 - 41:00 700 in the morning these are the kind of parties with no alcohol everybody's on coffee or juice kind of thing this is where everyone's doing psychedelics do you do psychedelics I did yeah what kind uh MDMA have you researched the pluses and minuses of MDMA I read somewhere that somebody is legalizing it for mental illness in in America yeah can you tell us a bit more about MDMA
• 41:00 - 41:30 yeah it's uh there's a lot of uh interesting trials for veterans working on PTSD uh you know also Sil sibin is very promising so um I'd say yeah psychedelics are having a Resurgence in the US of Interest where they got uh pretty buried by the government in the 70s 80s and now I think that there's a lot ofering evidence suggesting that they're interesting alts to Pharma drugs in a America marijana is legal to a large extent yes is that something you
• 41:30 - 42:00 try or some no no you think it has a lot of disadvantages as compared to an MDMA for example yeah uh yeah I think I think marijuana is complicated complicated like it just is um you know like you take aspirin for a certain thing um you can do a psychedelic for a given therapy objective um you you can of course use weed for you know CBD or can use uh T
• 42:00 - 42:30 THC or other versions for like pain management or other things but it's just complicated it has all kinds of other effects and um I think people sometimes confuse the specific application with the general enjoyment so it fills some uh broader category for them in their life and then it could become more of a lifestyle thing so I just I don't see many people succeeding um with their objectives on
• 42:30 - 43:00 on marijuana yeah it's it's more yeah I I don't know many high functioning people who routinely use marijuana maybe occasionally uh for enjoyment but very few like uh actual regular practitioners right okay so 34 beyond that what happened how did you arrive at this decision that what you're doing today is what will be the focus of your life uh it was a thought experiment that I was hanging out in the 25th Century in a
• 43:00 - 43:30 few hundred years from now and imagining what they would say about this moment right now is this zero ISM and the dinners and yeah can you tell us I read a little bit about yeah yeah so um actually if you as a game I'll run you through a few thought experiments yeah okay cool yeah okay so that there's two rules here is um everyone talks so everyone expresses an opinion and number two is try to keep your answers short and snappy sure uh because you will learn based upon other people's reactions to this okay um the first
• 43:30 - 44:00 question for you is if you had access to an algorithm that could give you the best physical and mental and spiritual health of your life but exchange for the access you did what the algorithm said you went to bed when it said you exercise in the way it prescribed you ate what it said would you say yes or would you say no yes yes yes yes no okay yeah okay uh what the algorith told me to sleep at 8:00 p.m. every day and then wake up at 12:00 p.m. I
• 44:00 - 44:30 wouldn't do it it comes in the way of my life yeah so maybe one no three yeses okay so no okay yes why yes I think it's fun you know if if there's a cheat sheet that can give you Perpetual life I think why not okay guess why yes because I think uh I believe that you know when you have a lot of data computationally I think algorithms make better decisions
• 44:30 - 45:00 than what you can mentally process okay yes why no I mean I generally like having like set of rules to follow and and if an algorithm is going to give me rules to follow I just follow that what's the carot you live for perpetuity no he's going to talk about the algorithm we are on the verge of figuring out algorithm or maybe in future we'll figure out no yeah there's no carrot there's noet there's no carrot yeah experiment gives you no promise uh the only thing that you know about this
• 45:00 - 45:30 is you say this is my best physical mental spiritual health outside of that you don't know what you're doing you don't know what it's saying you don't know anything about the best no you you won't I consciously make choices which take me away from my best physical state ever possible because you made one last night I don't see that changing no but the out the ultimate outcome isn't that goal important if if this kind of if that more important we both wouldn't have gone and had a drink last night with my
• 45:30 - 46:00 right I feel like the quality of my life is just as important as as long as my life is so what if the algorithm uh I mean you could you know of course get the data and then kind of Cho make make the choice no but if I were to choose to listen to the algorithm or not I won't listen to it all the time if it goes against the way I want to live my life I want n the my freedom but but n the
• 46:00 - 46:30 bigger question is if there is an algorithm where is the algorithm how far are we from it and how easy or difficult is it so many I think that's a digression though okay so that's question number one okay question number two um let's imagine we just the TW people who exist in the 25th Century they just watched this conversation they heard me ask you the question and they heard your responses what do they say about your
• 46:30 - 47:00 morals your values your ethics your characteristics of intelligence what should they say about you in this time and place yeah I think four of us would look very Progressive and ni would be why being in pain in the ass most evolved thinkers I have seen I feel are not there today they were there in the past because in the past we didn't look at vocation or work like we do today they were professional
• 47:00 - 47:30 philosophers and people who could devote a life to that as you go higher up in the ladder of evolution I think you ask more first principle questions of what is the point of life get more nihilistic in nature ask yourself whether you want to live in the first place or not much less how do I extend if it is a miserable life a little bit longer and how do I make my life more miserable in order to
• 47:30 - 48:00 achieve that so I'm assuming somebody in the 25th Century is more evolved than I am and I don't think Evolution generally happens forward it also can happen backward so it could also be possible n that at that point in time uh you know people are more uh you know uh following uh these algorithmic directions because because they again are focused on an outcome but
• 48:00 - 48:30 he's not promising an outcome and and that the progress doesn't happen linearly historically if we if you look at the last couple of centuy it seems like it has happened in a linear manner but what he's saying is we are at a point where Evolution and Devolution both seems quite plausible no what I'm saying is evolution is not necessarily how we think evolution is going to be true Evolution could be different yeah people in the 25th Century could be evolved in a different manner what what
• 48:30 - 49:00 do you think I'll tell you what I think after so you guys think they would say what so you said that you there would a few of all few there yeah yeah I want to my answer now I think based on what nichel said I I doo feel that uh my response was purely if we were progressing yeah in a in a linear fashion but now I'm not sure what they'll say yeah not too sure I think uh they'll say that uh maybe uh they'll
• 49:00 - 49:30 know a lot more about uh why certain things need to be done or not done right so they'll think that we probably were uh not not really thoughtful in just saying that we'll follow the algorithm okay no I I would say I would I think they will think that person's being stupid this fellow saying no is is this may be a stupid kind of a decision
• 49:30 - 50:00 yeah who's saying uh no no I mean I mean future in the future the people looking back will think whoever said no to it as being stupid if the algorithm does not promise immortality in a length in a way I feel like there are many algorithms out there already today with no definitive fixed outcome in place we are voluntarily choosing not to follow it each and every one of us I don't see why the 25th
• 50:00 - 50:30 Century people will not be like that I think human mentality is human mentality psychology of people will not change all humans in my opinion outside of conditioning and conforming pick pleasure shorter term pleasure is more valuable than middle-term pleasure and that in turn is more valuable than far off pleasure but but do you think 21th century will will think as
• 50:30 - 51:00 drinking for pleasure I feel like we maximize pleasure more today than maybe the Greeks did 2,000 years ago so why will it change in 500 but n there's a reason why it will change right so we have this idea of agentic co-pilots today that help us from the outside right and and we have been kind of independent in that sense from external influences so to speak right but if you had that chip in your head which is
• 51:00 - 51:30 driving you know your thought process right what happened I don't think agents and co-pilots are thinking for us no no they might start they might start influencing your thinking I'm saying why not right that didn't exist you know the 10 20 30 million years before but why would we think that uh you know in the future the way we think the way we get influenced will be the same way it happened can I tell you why yeah cuz if
• 51:30 - 52:00 there is Agi and there is a chip which thinks better and not just executes for us better or helps us but thinks for all of us things for you specifically let's say will soon get democratized and we all will have the same chip we'll again go back to the innate Cardinal need for a man to distinguish himself from the peer so you would do what is against the algorithm to find your identity versus following the algorithm but I think where that would evolve I'm saying is
• 52:00 - 52:30 undetermined yeah agree so so in a sense I'm saying maybe uh my answer there would be if I could rephrase is that we just can't say because we don't know what somebody's thought process would I'm changing your answers one by one yeah yeah okay on the Alcohol point I have to point out that the Greeks and Romans didn't long see live long enough to see the consequences of uh you know drinking as much as the the people of today are not alcohol not alcohol I'm not talking about
• 52:30 - 53:00 alcohol I'm talking about I was talking about alcohol saying in the 25th Century why would someone think you need alcohol for pleasure no but would you let an algorithm tell you that you should do this and should not do this is the question but I very possible that that could be a scenario is what I'm saying because we don't know how and what will control our thought process in that yeah in my mind it takes away
• 53:00 - 53:30 individuality from maybe maybe that's how we will become I'm saying that it's it's a possibility yeah all right so where we've been in in these two thought experiments is the first question uh was purposfully provocative and open-ended right you're given this this uh binary decision will you say yes or no to an algorithm you're giving given very little information so you have to in that process you have to say Okay complicated situation you went to your mind and you probe the database of ideas you have like how do I understand reality you could pull any model you
• 53:30 - 54:00 want and each of you chose a model of reality and said here's my model of reality and my rationale right but you basically showed your models of reality through your responses the second question all right was a similar experience where you confronted a question with uh a now a reflective tone where you're looking back on your model so in the first one you were very confident like I'm going to do this for the following reasons this this one you're not quite so sure right because you we know from our historical
• 54:00 - 54:30 perspective we look back at previous generations we think ah they weren't as advanced as we are they didn't know things we know so we know more than them like we may be a bit more advanced and we imagine it's possible that future Generations would be more advanced than us and we think we might be humble a little bit to say like maybe we are primitive in a certain ways so in two thought experiment you go from a high degree of confidence of knowing to a less degree of confidence and more that you may not know so just keep that in mind all right third thought experiment
• 54:30 - 55:00 so when I um try to assess planet Earth right now and I try to quiet my mind and acknowledge try to identify what is really happening on the planet I think there's only one thing going on we're giving birth to Super intelligence Nothing Else Matters besides that we're giving a birst to a form of intelligence that's going to change our existence unfathomably and and in time frames which are hard for understand so as a species we have this really pressing problem what do you do
• 55:00 - 55:30 when you give birth to Super intelligence now if you pose this question to China they've got an answer if you pose a question to the US they kind of have an answer but then the open AI has an answer and and anthropic has a different answer and Facebook's open model has a different answer and if you pose this question Israel they have ideas if you ask an ideological group what do you want to do with if they have certain ideas so we have different people with with different ideas all over the world eight8 billion of us and they have different ideas on how they want to use
• 55:30 - 56:00 super intelligence for war for money for status for power for sex so a legitimate question when you're giving birth to an intelligence this powerful what do we do and this is not a question of like what ought we to do this is like a legit question we're a team we're planning what are we going to do in this moment the only thought that I comes to me is that hopefully it's not about what I mean of course a lot of better things can happen
• 56:00 - 56:30 but it does not lead to a dystopian situation and uh uh you know kind of existential human race kind of situation is what comes to mind for me okay that because you don't know where that super intelligence will actually end yeah so what do we do so you you
• 56:30 - 57:00 need to uh in my mind you know um govern I mean have have as much systems to govern the super intelligence as uh and that the governance systems should evolve as uh in step with uh how fast the super intelligence evolv whose governance systems whatever that avoids that that situation of uh Humanity being uh the
• 57:00 - 57:30 whatever uh just destroyed at some level right who do we call so we'll have to figure that out right we'll have to figure that out because there is there is everybody working on birthing that super intelligence yeah are there enough people working on saying you know how do you manage the superintelligence so what do you think we should do I think we should put enough effort on um I mean as as uh um uh you know in terms of
• 57:30 - 58:00 resources and uh uh you know putting people's capabilities behind uh you know this this this aspect this Dimension I think uh there has to be a little bit of uh of refocus and shift who does that I I think um in my mind it's it's a collective uh Global effort and who's in charge I whoever is I mean today we are not nuking ourselves right everybody's I
• 58:00 - 58:30 mean everybody can nuke everybody but we're not nuking it and nuking each other so I think the same systems that govern that uh so you think the status quo will will take care of it no no I'm I'm saying the status quo is a starting point yeah right with the absence of anything else I'm saying that's where I would start okay others what do you think we do I don't know I don't know if we have control to do anything much as in the fact that there's us and China
• 58:30 - 59:00 I mean how do you get them both to you know they're going to compete a way to to you know to B the super intelligent whatever so so I don't know I I never thought about it but but I don't think can do anything yeah okay fair that's yeah I I think it's going to be a reactive response because as growing in an unplanned manner I mean if people can't put a timeline around when
• 59:00 - 59:30 AGI is going to be available and we are so close to uh being there as some prominent people have pointed out um so if that's unplanned I don't think anybody can plan a response now so it's going to be reactive response yeah okay I feel like we use it to increase productivity and solve problems wherever we can yeah including the problem of Health and like many Innovations before it it
• 59:30 - 60:00 runs its course so similar pattern like you just think like yeah so it's like two two patterns like we can't really do anything you guys are like kind like we'll figure it out I feel like everything evolves and we've not had much control with any of the evolution that has happened up until now why do we foresee controlling something that's happening tomorrow but up until now it's it's not being a super intelligent being it's it's it's about you know things were under your control
• 60:00 - 60:30 but you're talking about something some super intelligent being know so which can which can think for its own self so see which which one becomes real then right are are human beings real or is super intelligence real then you don't know everything is real everything that exists is real but you know yeah it's everything that exists is real but then which becomes uh I mean see which becomes organic is maybe the question the humans I feel
• 60:30 - 61:00 like I did a long conversation about this just recently with the meta Yan Lun his form of thinking is llms generative AI are nowhere close to AG they're a long long way away it's a completely different tact of AI which can get into AGI all kinds of intelligence that we have today is narrow a car being able to drive it self as narrow intelligence uh a robot being able to operate on
• 61:00 - 61:30 somebody's again a narrow kind of intelligence if we have an intelligence which can combine many of these narrow intelligences right now I feel like we use it I I also feel like in this conversation it's very important to Define what we mean is intelligence I don't think anybody has the right definition they all have different definitions by virtue of having different definitions they can't have the right one so there's too many open variables in this but if I
• 61:30 - 62:00 were to like super superimpose my top down thinking on all of those variables I would say that it will evolve like everything else is evolved yeah so he said somebody made a gun when we were punching each other and today somebody has a gun somebody does not but the world is moving on we're not all did so can I summarize this conversation this part this question and say we have no idea yeah as a species we have have I think that's a fair thing like not even a not even a
• 62:00 - 62:30 starting point because I think I what n we don't know what is super intelligence I think even more fundamentally yeah right what will be the form of that few super inell so can I pattern match that in the first question that I posed to you if you had access to an algorithm you went to your database and said how do I understand the world you surveyed the the models of your reality and you said I'll choose that one and you mapped it on to the answer this was the same pattern right I gave you a question that is inherently
• 62:30 - 63:00 very complicated and very real you did the same thing you went to your database of of knowledge and said how do I understand reality and you Ma the model onto reality and you express the same degree of confidence right there no one here said I don't know it was like actually I know and let me just tell you how this going to work right so we mapped artificially some degree of confidence onto a question we have no idea what to do as a species there's no plan and so uh I want to suggest that we need a
• 63:00 - 63:30 plan and there's only one plan that I know of that actually can be equal to this moment and is don't die so don't die is a philosophical framework it's an economic plan it's political it's moral it's social and it is don't die individually don't kill each other don't kill the planet and align AI with don't die that don't die is the most played game by every every human on this planet every second of every day it is our
• 63:30 - 64:00 zeroth order priority every second to not die every breath we take all of our metabolic energy is going to not diey in this moment that's true for all biology too most of biology and so don't die is the single thing that every human can agree upon above don't die we Branch off into billions of different directions and we have all kinds of different opinions about everything so don't die is what I've been trying to do for the past four years is I've tried to say what I want to become the most don't die person in human history so how would you do that you would say I'm going to
• 64:00 - 64:30 measure every way I can this biological F this me every organ every biological process take all the science you can apply all the science and say what do you get look at the data and then repeat that measurement science data measurement science data and do it again and again and again till you find that path of like what works what doesn't work now the same algorithm would work for planet Earth you say how could Earth be a sustainable biosphere for us as a species you measure the Earth with billions of data points you say I have a hypothesis on what a good biosphere
• 64:30 - 65:00 looks like you run the experiment you get data same thing science protocol data and so it's the same thing again and again don't die is uh numerical in value so just like I can measure my speed of Aging or uh the age of a of bi of an organ you could say what is the die score of a of a child's school lunch so in America an a common school lunch is a piece of pizza chocolate milk and canned vegetables so like we know that's not a
• 65:00 - 65:30 metabolically optimized meal necessarily we could probably assign it a die score like when a child consumes that what is it doing for its health and wellness you could also say you can imagine this being a political situation where a politician is saying I want to be elected because I give my constituents the best water air Medical Services right it's a political system built upon don't die it's numerical and so I propose that don't die is the
• 65:30 - 66:00 singular thing we focus on as a species and specifically that we have power that by 2027 the same time when we think that these AI agents will be as good as our best AI researchers that there's a billion of us around the world that are practicing don't die economically politically religiously morally socially ethically all the above what do you think about that can I ask to what end what is the point of
• 66:00 - 66:30 life so that question is a luxury that one can ask when you're not dead MH agreed but if you were to take your I can't use the word soul but take your uh mind out of your body and if you have to compare andage two lives one very happy fulfilling 50-year lifespan and
• 66:30 - 67:00 One Less Fun 80-year lifespan if your mind had to make a choice which life should it pick what is the point of life what is the meaning of it so that question don't I depends on that in my opinion so that question has probably produced more murder than any question is in history and the question is basically do you agree or disagree with this concept like humans murder each other when we disagree over Concepts and so the point of don't die
• 67:00 - 67:30 is don't die is the only thing in existence we agree upon everything else we branch and we kill each other when you think about it you're not saying don't kill others you're saying don't die what Ifill each other what if tomorrow it goes to a point I'm just extrapolating here that for you not to die you have to like eat pran's heart or something like that what happens then yeah so the second rule is don't kill each other so for is don't die second is don't kill each other third is you can't destroy the
• 67:30 - 68:00 planet I'm safe he has a second rule second rule and the fourth is align a don't die so like basically we humans we can't resolve conflict with death that's not an option you can't kill each other to solve an argument what if you diminish the quality of his life I'm just extrapolating because don't die in isolation I think needs 10 other questions answered so it's a lot like democracy where the US was 13 colonies and they were ruled
• 68:00 - 68:30 by the British the US said we want to do our own thing we want to elect our own officials we want to govern ourselves like we want um at that point they did not have democracy solved they didn't know how to do states rights Federal rights they didn't understand how to what what do you do with someone who's been committed for a crime can they still vote or not like there were thousands and thousands of questions that are unresolved the US is still fighting about democracy 200 years later still a constant debate don't dies the same way it's not that we have this solved ethically and morally it's that you're pointing in the right direction and so
• 68:30 - 69:00 if you look at it from the 25th Century like you really try to pull yourself out of the moment don't die as a contemplation that when an intelligent species when Homo sapiens gives birth to Super intelligence what you do right so like right now we're in this very serious complication and we just had this conversation where it's like we don't know so if you go out and you say hey democracy help us out or like hey capitalism you have any answers or like hey Islam hey Christianity like hey Buddhism who can help us solve this puzzle like what do we practically do what is the problem you're trying to
• 69:00 - 69:30 solve what do we do when you're giving birth to Super intelligence when you're giving birth to a form of intelligence that exceeds you in every capacity are you saying don't die in relation to that exactly I'm saying don't die is the Practical moral ethical social philosophical economic political framework of what we do as a species when you give birth to Super intelligence so is that just a different way of saying you know um let's improve the quality of life of
• 69:30 - 70:00 everybody on this planet how is it different from that uh it's so it's both a negative statement and a positive statement right so a negative statement is that if if the if the US so whoever acquires super intelligence they're probably not going to be uh you know they're probably going to use it according to current laws of society which is ruthless brutality of power acquisition right like that's what humans do and um there so there's rules
• 70:00 - 70:30 on what and so we do this because we value security and power and Status that's what we we all do individually what we do collectively so whoever acquires this technology is going to play by the rules of society to acquire those endpoints so when you acquire this power if you apply the same human rules what I'm saying is you have a possibility that leads you to a destruction of this species so either AI can go wrong or humans can use it for the wrong purposes and so what I'm
• 70:30 - 71:00 saying is like in When Death when it's just humans playing the game and death is inevitable like should I go to war kill each other create kingdoms have someone else taking place that Kingdom like do your thing when you're giving birth to Super intelligence and the and the map is changing for the species you have to ask is there any existing system that humans have that answer this equation so like let me give you another example so imagine you're hanging out Homo rectus a million years ago they have an in their hand that's their tool of choice so they give you an idea of how either primitive or Advanced they
• 71:00 - 71:30 were and you say homo Rous tell me about the future of intelligence like what are humans going to be like now homoerectus at that point may say we're going to do you know we're going to do more hunting we're going to do more Gathering we're going to travel to different parts of the world but they can't tell you about the microscopic world of atoms or molecules they can't tell you about the electromagnetic Spectra which you can't see they can't tell you about radio they can't tell you about antibiotics a pill you hold your hand to swallow they have no models in their mind that inform them
• 71:30 - 72:00 on any part of our reality so the only thing a homus could say that would be intelligent is I don't know I have no models to State this now when we're giving birth of super intelligence the question is are we equal to homoerectus are we basically as primitive relative to AI as homoerectus is to our our current state and so that's the question for us is do we know anything which takes us back to our first question our second question and third question this entire conversation
• 72:00 - 72:30 is a is a ju Theos of what we think we know what we actually know and trying to find the right balance between do we dare even express an opinion and so don't die is basically saying we have no idea what the future is offering we have no idea what's coming our way the only thing we know the only thing we can say with confidence is none of us want to die right now that's it we can't say anything intelligent beyond that statement everything else is pure
• 72:30 - 73:00 speculation going back to Brian what you saying I mean does that even matter that point I mean just just don't die thing when let's say you have two countries uh um let's say the US and China right hypothetically right so if they have all the AIA in the world and the rest of the world is is pretty much much basically what Prashant is saying that the philosophy of don't die has nothing to do with what's going
• 73:00 - 73:30 to happen in the world and it seems good as a as a personal project it seems amazing that humans can improve their lifespan and increase uh you know the quality ears in their life but how does it how do Rel to this buring of this super I'm just correlating these two is where I'm trying you need to program the AI with with an objective function you just say AI Your Role is to do these things under these circumstances for
• 73:30 - 74:00 these reasons right that right now we're we're tuning it like you're polite in certain ways or you will talk about this but not about that like you can't tell me how to build a a nuclear weapon you can't tell me how to do basic chemistry right we're tuning these models we're telling them what they can and cannot do so we're already feeding into them all of our values so when you get p with the super intelligence it's not just like we they get to do whatever we want we've we've Ed our morals and ethics and values if you tell the ai ai the objective of your
• 74:00 - 74:30 existence is intelligence doesn't die humans don't die you don't die our planet does not die that's the goal so you're saying when you say don't die you're saying program the AI into behaving in a manner that it follows don't die exactly that's the objective function he's saying but my question is why would that super intelligence want to follow that function if it is really superint if it's really that's it doesn't make sense to the planet doesn't
• 74:30 - 75:00 affect your continual existence as human species like we die so our kids can take place I mean at after a point your brain is not having the same kind of cognition that would would it be good for the world if we all didn't die not really has not really has any civilization has any generation ever been able to say anything wise about the Future No but we trying to extrapolate the future and we saying AGI will come and then what will happen so the
• 75:00 - 75:30 question inherently is about the future so this is the thing to see what you see happening in the conversation is this is the tension right like your your statement was like is it good or bad for humans to live for a certain degree you said no right so the question is like how do you know that and and you you made a statement right so this is like this tension how do we dare say anything about the future when we're giving birth to something that leads us in intelligence how can we make any model any any kind of Bridge to a reality why
• 75:30 - 76:00 wouldn't we just say we have no idea we can guess but to have this extreme humility we don't know and that gives you actually the wisdom to say if we don't know let's just all agree to this basic idea no one dies the AI That's The Objective function and once you don't die you can then say I'm going to we're going to play new games of blank sure like but you have to have that Foundation otherwise we're dumping into this thing we're we're walking into this
• 76:00 - 76:30 with violence and War and murder at the core function of our I'm just going to ask one question here you're not asking me for the philosophy I should live by you're asking me for the philosophy that should be programmed into AGI when it were to come about exactly yeah but why should all become so reductive to a point that everybody start talking about don't die I mean there's so many things that we can all agree on like your second Point don't kill others I'd put
• 76:30 - 77:00 that on top of don't die how um you may do others I mean I mean the same applies to don't die also I you believe that the whole philosophy of don't die comes from the very existence or it's it's like it's intrinsic yeah it's intrinsic but then nckl here just pointed out maybe he does not have that intrinsic desire to live so I think it's all supp to I not Beyond 100 years he's talking about don't die
• 77:00 - 77:30 you're probably talking about 100 years so you know he's talking about living 100 200 years if AGI is a culmination of human Innovation on human intelligence humans are innately programmed to survive every single one given a choice between you and you you would throw him off the hill and he would throw you off the boat the first part of your statement don't die is inherently programmed into every
• 77:30 - 78:00 living thing it's in our subconscious and if our subconscious is getting translated into the Super intelligence because it's building above our Consciousness I would assume organically innately it should have the same tenants and and I mean you are putting a disclaimer hey don't die but don't kill anybody else what's to prevent people from killing other people I mean conf p is the the ancient Guy this is his philosophy of Life which I really love
• 78:00 - 78:30 and I feel like if I had one philosophy to live by don't do onto others what you wouldn't like done to you that kind of encap encapsulates both don't die and don't kill others yeah yeah it's it's very similar the most challenging part of this conversation is to wrestle like go back to that first question would you say yes or no to an algorithm that can give you right imag remember your confidence like you said like I have model of reality I'm going to make I'm going to make the statement of reality the next question made you realize from the vantage point
• 78:30 - 79:00 of the 25th Century your models of reality may be silly they may be primitive you may know absolutely nothing right like laughable from the perspective of the 25th Century and then the third question reminded you of the same thing that when you have these really complicated questions all of you answered with high degrees of confidence we should do the following things but then we all kind of conceited we're like actually like we legit don't know and so you're still wrestling that with your own responses like you you want to map your model of the world onto this question you want there to be an
• 79:00 - 79:30 answer you want there to be a reason you want there to be a purpose you want there to have to be a biologically describable situation and those things don't solve this moment right how do we solve don't die R I think I think that's the more peculiar question how do we solve for don't die don't you think that a human uh and what's what's the don't Dore what's theore no no I mean come on air
• 79:30 - 80:00 fried air fried this is maana this is okay what maana is yeah this is like healthy version of fried something air fried really air fried okay so what I want for today from today's episode is a to figure out what to put in my body what not to put in my body if I were a 15year old 20 year old 25 30 50 60 man woman lgbtq whatever okay the
• 80:00 - 80:30 second question I want answered most of our audience is they young people who are looking to be entrepreneurs they want to start a business I want to answer the question in this realm of Health where is the opportunity to start a business and what business should they start those two things are the main aners right okay we can start with the first one okay so what should we put
• 80:30 - 81:00 into our body we'll all see the supplements we are taking and maybe you can give us a opinion on it and you we can all ask questions independently no but but first he should start yeah he should mean Brian I mean just have a quick question there uh so you were doing about 100 plus supplements when you started out is that correct yeah yeah and you've kind of now got it down to about 40 yeah right what was the process and and how what did you get from where you started to where where you are uh it's all about data it's all about measurement of data so like the
• 81:00 - 81:30 question like what somebody should eat or what someone should take is like we can start with markers that we know are good you can say like um your measure of your HBA A1C uh your blood glucose level we can say um you know a six is bad a 4.7 is good so very easy you say what foods produce something closer to 4.7 and what foods produce something closer to six that's a very easy process right so uh foods that Spike blood sugar like
• 81:30 - 82:00 high sugar and things like that bad and so you start with the stuff that's very basic what things uh create inflammation in the body good or bad can you tell us five basic things that we should follow yeah but I say these things because um every health expert has a different answer but what is Brian's answer yeah after all the experience in research yeah my so I have specific foods I eat but I'm saying the process that people should go about doing is not trust anyone's philosophy they should trust
• 82:00 - 82:30 the data and so there's multiple paths to get to the same destination just trust the data and so what I do um I for breakfast I have broccoli cauliflour black lentils garlic ginger uh for my next meal I have macadamia nuts walnuts flax seed pommegranate juice berries pea protein and hemp protein my final meal of the day is some kind combination of berries nut seeds and that I have extra version Olive o o with every meal and uh I do fermented foods and every day
• 82:30 - 83:00 what's that every day you have the same thing the third meal varies every day yeah oh okay and uh what's the time I mean you do this between uh uh intermittent restricted yeah in 6 hours fast for 16 hours yeah uh and just going back to the supplements I just want to stick to that uh uh I mean if you had to just extra let's say uh do you think the 40 that you have today also is there a stack
• 83:00 - 83:30 ranking of those 40 and are there 10 in those 40 that you think have had the uh highest leverage or the highest impact for you what what would the stand be we the H1 I take is pegged to a biomarker so like I'm try yeah I'm trying to maintain ideal levels of Vitamin K Vitamin D vitamin E so like uh everything is measured by marker so every supplement has an end point okay so each supplement so so if you think there are 10 important micronutrients
• 83:30 - 84:00 or or or other markers you just pegged each of them and then how you took off these other supplements because uh were they negatively impacting one of these markers or they were doing nothing for these markers so actually the the more noat story is I took majority of those and put it into a drink I still take basically 100 pills a day right now they're in part of a drink so it's easier to take and so then forward your in pill capsule form I know the list of
• 84:00 - 84:30 everything you take is out there uh one can read it online right on yes yeah where does one go to see it uh Pro uh uh blueprint. Brian johnson.com right yeah maybe we can talk about what we are taking and get opinion so each one of you has a different theory of what works right I can go first I take vitamin D Omega-3 uh chillit ashwagandha I don't know what your thoughts are would love to know and
• 84:30 - 85:00 magnesium midn night have you measured your Omega your Omega levels can you measure your Omega levels yes so we will be so in the US there's Omega Quant that does that but in in India biopak will be okay yeah so you're saying constantly measure my levels to take exactly I wouldn't take anything unless you can measure it ironically enough that's what you were saying as well yeah yeah I mean some of the things you can't measure directly for example magnesium right A
• 85:00 - 85:30 lot of people rely on blood test for magnesium which is not the right way you should rely on uh you know dexa for that so because over a period of time body's homeostasis would leech out magnesium and other minerals from your bones and still maintain your uh you know blood concentration so sometimes those things can like incorrectly show that you have sufficient magnesium but might not so how how often do you measure uh which what one how uh uh all the blood markers
• 85:30 - 86:00 uh blood's like once every month or two but yeah we do thousands of measurements every month across everything Imaging blood methylation like what should I measure like if I could do only like five tests yeah what should I measure in my body I mean the easiest thing to do is blood okay and what am I looking for in blood uh it depends on how advanced you want to get you can get very robust like 100 panel 100 variable panel blood you can do very basic of like 12 to 15
• 86:00 - 86:30 so take your pick on how advanced you want to become if you want to become more sophisticated you could do after that you could do some epigenetic testing so you can see uh your speed of Aging or the age of your organs according to DNA methylation patterns you could do a full body MRI looking for bad stuff like cancer tumors but also baselining your your organs with the biological age uh you can do a microplastics test we just did that as a company so you can do a finger prick and see the microplastics in your in your bloodstream and then there's a whole bunch of other like there's endless
• 86:30 - 87:00 tests you can do a microbiome test you can do like a whole bunch of stuff so and if you were to suggest five supplements I know it's a generalization for the average 25 year old what are the supplements they should be on most often yeah it's what they're deficient in right always start with the deficiencies as the the most powerful okay since we have one question if I if I were a 25 year-old trying to start a business in health around testing supplementation or
• 87:00 - 87:30 anything ancillary do you see any lwh hanging fruits that one should start I mean so I I went through this exercise myself and um I didn't really want to get into this business like it's a it's a pain in the ass low margin uh but like it's no one's done this so we created I think uh the healthiest food stack in the entire world so we went through all the evidence we said where are high value nutritional Foods we sourced it from all
• 87:30 - 88:00 over the world and we do third party testing and we publish all the lab results and I know from doing this over the past couple years that food is guilty until proven innocent so if we tested this food right here I bet it's toxic I bet it has contaminants in there that we don't know we're eating because nobody's checking this there's no we don't have a third party lab result showing it what's in this food I've tested enough food myself to know most things have high levels of of toxins and
• 88:00 - 88:30 most you're think the business would be to put out a food stack that is highly tested exactly because what you you want basically Health to be automated like if I eat this I want to know what I'm putting in my body like what is the die score is it actually gonna is it improving my health or is it making my health worse there's there's actually you can quantify that to some degree like smoking a cigarette so here's like like in this air quality here uh in Mumbai it's equal to smoking over 10 cigarettes a day if you're out in the
• 88:30 - 89:00 every day like the entire city is smoking you know 10 plus cigarettes a day breathing this air right that's a very clear die score right because there's no virtue in cigarettes there's no one living longer because they're smoking the same is true with this air quality so Brian what do you think of a business where you have a multidisplinary team right which is which cost a lot of money and you you use them if that can be uh democratized in some sense and uh somebody can have a model and which is
• 89:00 - 89:30 kind of the clinic model with the same team yeah that can be leveraged with a health manager uh for a broader set of people yeah are you thinking of something like that it's like it's the hard the part part about that is it doesn't scale like anytime you're dealing with someone's personal health you've got infinite rabbit holes to go down right they've got endless issues they're trying to chase down endless issues are endless optimizations and then when you the doctor with that like it just there the margins are so low maybe AI will change that or you can
• 89:30 - 90:00 change I think okay can you give us one more like a business a 25 year old should start because everybody's looking at this watching Brian what business do we start in health there's so many people building in Ai and health right now so that's a very saturated Market there's just tons of uh high quality energy going into that like food food is like the most basic boring business that no one built mhm and uh that's why it was a problem that needed to be solved we did that with supplements and food um
• 90:00 - 90:30 you know like biotech is a different thing you have to raise a ton of money of these very long Cycles it's very hard so yeah health is very very hard like the doctor M like it's very very hard it's not a clean answer I mean uh one thing uh I take athletic Greens in the morning yeah so I saw I saw uh a post of yours uh uh kind of dising athletic greens why is that because the whole industry seems to be uh on one side for athletic greens
• 90:30 - 91:00 and and you are against it as in any any reason for that isn't yeah so the um the cost of their goods to Source their actual ingredients is less than $10 probably $7 they sell it for one time $99 and subscription for $79 they pay influencers 20% of that so every time a a health influencer plugs ag1 they get $20 uh um
• 91:00 - 91:30 $14 on that sale in perpetuity and so what what I'm hitting at is Health influencers have sold their souls to push this product because as a health influencer you Channel your you're basically saying trust me I'm going to tell you true things right and then you turn on your your um promotion hat and now you're saying trust me bu this thing but it's driven by money so there's a confusion are you
• 91:30 - 92:00 telling me this because you trust because I trust you or are you telling me this because I'm GNA make you're making money from me and that's where it splits and there's no disclosure that that's what's happening and so it confuses people and it lessens the value of the entire industry because now I say do I trust the health system do I trust influencers and so they lower the trust the entire ecosystem because I don't know now who's telling me the truth and who's telling me things to make money and so that and so ag1 bought their way
• 92:00 - 92:30 to influence by getting people to compromise their own personal Integrity by blurring the line between what is true and what I'm making money on and the alternate like the same argument could be held for what you are trying to sell using the blueprint I mean someone could say that you are potentially uh you know trying to sell this and that's why you're you know you're saying something in the difference with me is I did everything
• 92:30 - 93:00 and I open sourced the entire thing I said here's all my recipes here's all my ingredients like go out and do it I'm going to help you do the whole thing yourself and then I share all my data I say I do this and here's my data right it's like the most open transparent ungated Pro process you can do I've given the world my entire recipe so like there's there's no uh there's no conflict to what I'm doing I take it I share all my data I open source it they can go do their own thing and so it's actually a very clean model I do what I say I do what I I do and
• 93:00 - 93:30 there's know like are you telling me the truth to do this to your own personal incentive or are you doing this for my benefit and and blueprint and athletic green is like a similar product yeah yeah but again like I say you can buy it from me or go do it Go Source it on your own I will help you Source this I will tell you what to look for I'll tell you how to buy it like I will help you accomplish the same objective so it's like it's like I as far as I know I'm the only influencer planet
• 93:30 - 94:00 clean one question on rapy yes I just saw that post and uh it's of course uh aspirationally a gold standard as a molecule right for longevity yes and uh it didn't work for you um do you think it in a country like India uh there needs to be new trials on it and new people need to be I mean will it work in our kind of tropical environment uh what's what's your
• 94:00 - 94:30 thoughts on it it was a really surprising thing like if if you were to ask like what does the longevity Community agree upon the most yeah it was probably rapiz exactly that's that's why this question yeah so the one thing that everybody was you said it's doesn't work for you yeah I mean it's the side effect profile it's the it messes with lipids it messes with blood glucose I had small tissue infection uh soft tissue infections um it raised my resting heart rate and so we knew we had these side effects but we just wondered like whether the benefits outweighed uh
• 94:30 - 95:00 you know whether was a fair trade-off but uh I don't we just don't think it is and so um so will you try it some other time again or you just we're open to it yeah like we're always open like and like we really we very humble like we assume we're wrong in almost everything we do and we try to find reasons to like where we're wrong but like we we really do think we're very early stages and so the value is in the process of measurement and science evaluation yeah just because it didn't work for you
• 95:00 - 95:30 doesn't mean that work for yeah and we may be back on it you know like we I don't know it's just like it's it it's um it's encouraging people to go through the same the the same process of measurement great and like I share this because like I want people to beat me and if they can beat me then they improve you know the whole seel system what is end game for you Brian what are you looking to be 10 years 20 years from now what are you trying to achieve um I want something very simple I want the TW those who exist in the 21th
• 95:30 - 96:00 century I want them to say he got it he got it he got that moment right he saw it is is the need for being right in a unforeseeable future why is that so appealing to you uh it's the it's a characteristics I value and people like I read a ton of biographies and we we read people throughout history like you know mellan like he had this hypothesis I can sell a
• 96:00 - 96:30 ship around the world and he got a crew and he loaded up all his materials right and like he was successful and when you paint this picture in your mind is it potimus validation or are you alive in the 21st century like either either version makes me happy right yeah what Center in your brain is that most appealing to like for you to be proven right 100 years down the line what kind of high does that give you yeah I mean it's like to me it's the ultimate game
• 96:30 - 97:00 to play so like if you say like um what is human ambition or aspiration like you could say in previous times uh Alexander the Great says I'm going to raise an army I'm going to conquer territory and make this huge Kingdom like that's like the the peak ambition right of a military commander if you're a spiritual uh person you may say I want to figure out Detachment and ego death and I want you think something in common
• 97:00 - 97:30 between Alexander and the spiritual leader outside of what they superficially did having a lot of followers for the spiritual leader conquering land for Alexander What SAT below it in their psychology why did they want that so this is it's like it's like um what a person does with their conscious existence you know it's like uh Turing was like I'm going to build a universal computer right uh uh uh Watson and Crick was like we're going to like this we're going to
• 97:30 - 98:00 actually use we're going look at the DNA right it's like people do things to express their Essence their intelligence and so the question for me is like I find myself to exist what do I do with my existence like do I try to make money do I try to have a lot of sex do I like do I become debaucherous like what do I do with my existence and to me the coolest thing you can do is you try to solve the puzzle of existence like you try to solve like this whole thing like what is going on like what what is even happening like why do we exist why is
• 98:00 - 98:30 there Earth why are we in this part of the Galaxy what is existence so to me that's like you point at that and that's what my 20-y old self is like I wanted to do something that had this bigger architectural thing and to me like there's one thing happening right now which is like how do you solve existence for intelligence right like everything else is just like a sideshow and so to me I'm very drawn to it as a problem and that's why I go to this like how do you Str Ure knowing not knowing how do you structure human Affairs what are appropriate thought processes uh so really it's like the biggest puzzle to
• 98:30 - 99:00 solve in this moment so my team's telling me you want to like yeah okay cool thanks yeah yeah yeah thank you for having me yeah get to hang out a
• 99:00 - 99:30 [Music]
• 99:30 - 100:00 okay okay Brian had to leave air quality in Bombay is not up [Music] to up to the I'm actually surprised that the air quality affected him that much cognizant to how different things affect different people but did you think he'll be that bad I mean it's possible it is possible as in 120 I mean the way he
• 100:00 - 100:30 reacted to 120 was strange because he probably stays in a place where it's less than 10 California yeah yeah but uh Nathan 100 right I mean I'm just being objective and this could happen in Bangalore I'm not saying because it's bangalo Mumbai whatever right 100 living at 100 for long periods of time is not good I mean we uh so so this as cities we have to do something in our country yeah I mean we have made a choice
• 100:30 - 101:00 conscious choice of staying outside I mean not really outside of bang but little outskirts uh just because the air quality there is is sub20 all the time you're talking to real estate King what happens to real estate bangal if everybody starts thinking like that no but I I think uh it's a it's a problem on multiple Dimensions right I don't think it's about vehicle traffic right
• 101:00 - 101:30 there's construction right all our cities are going through tremendous construction and I don't know if this is a 5ye 10 year for what a year I don't know maybe you have a better sense but they're saying Mumbai before construction and Mumbai after construction one thing that has changed is the aqi quality see it's not just a problem pertaining to Mumbai because practically if I were to move from Pune to Delhi I would feel sick because the difference in air quality is substantial so your body takes a few days to acclimatize uh and just adjust to that
• 101:30 - 102:00 environment so if suddenly you are moving from let's say a sub30 aqi to let's say 140 um it would have a drastic effect so you would feel that sudden itching I surprised that because we also live here right yeah but we have our bodies have acclimatized you know our bodies have adjusted compromising multiple secondary functions so you have primary functions you have secondary functions so at any point of time your body will prioritize survival so you
• 102:00 - 102:30 know we are basically compromising when we are living here the body has compromised to an extent where it does not feel like we are facing any issues but in reality we are should we all move no but but there's one U you know thing thought that occurred to me just now right there are so many people who travel from the US for the first time and Brian is not the first uh of course the person who came here for the first time right I've not seen them react the same way no that's probably is so measured he's measuring everything so he
• 102:30 - 103:00 more like he was feeling it right do those people feel it and they don't tell us about it yeah I don't know but they do fall sick no they do they do they do they do yeah most of the times they they come here they get influenza and other vaccines and then they come to they call it country yeah yeah but the strange thing is um in India we pay More For Real Estate wherever the aqi is the most Delhi is is the most Prime real estate in the country and the worst air quality
• 103:00 - 103:30 here in Bombay you know probably Prim real estate and Bombay 120 130 next to the sea is actually if this next to the Sea you probably go interior somewhere you probably are having a wor much worse next to the sea with a lot of plants and four air purifiers yeah yes I think next 5 to 10 years most of the cities in India will as per who
• 103:30 - 104:00 would be you know uninhabitable when it comes to aqi and water quality like sure you can purify your Waters but at the same time if your natural reservoirs are not safe to drink from that basically will result in loss of Flora and Fauna because you know we humans have the luxury to drink from purifiers animals don't maybe that's the real startup of opportunity right like I said how to make your home uh an environment that to some extent for some
• 104:00 - 104:30 period of the day compensates for what you don't have in your control so air purifier good idea for entrepreneurs extremely good Next Level I don't think the air purifiers we have today are really at the level which are required for our cities they were probably made for I'm sure this technology is from the west where it was like 100 100 going purifiers yeah didn't much 130 140 you need air purifier that work do air purifiers actually take down yeah yeah
• 104:30 - 105:00 because they they res they they take the that PMI uh they absorb that they filters that absorb that we probably need industrial size because in Goa I have that Dyson one it shows 60 70 but I don't think PMI there can be that high L surprising there's a lot of construction conru air quality one thing say in the house when you're cooking right the number goes high so how what is that that is are we still cooking and
• 105:00 - 105:30 breathing but you're not do it's for short periods of time yeah but it's still bad if the PMI is going up yeah smoke yeah any any kind of smoke is not great it's it's uh ideally speaking the kitchen should be kind of separate from the rest of the house so there's a second business opportunity right yeah the your exhaust fans need to be next level corre in terms of reducing the and a real estate idea designs should not have kitchens in the
• 105:30 - 106:00 house no I think real estate wise can you make a home right that just like the way we give importance to air conditioning in the home is there somebody who can show me that uh there's there's a meter on every wall right which instead of I mean in addition to temperature can show my the aqi in every room and say that this home has been engineered uh for sub 50 aqi that's a big realist that's I would pay a premium
• 106:00 - 106:30 for that in any major city so I'm going to go through 10 tenets of longevity okay which we can add two or minus from depending on how they sound and we can all opine on what we think and somebody comes up with a business idea for each one of them first one Liv style management actively managing diet sleep exercise alcohol smoking
• 106:30 - 107:00 stress to slow aging there's this amazing company huh called that does just that and you know it's I'm a subscriber but if I'm having a drink you're not looking at me how are you managing it yeah subconsciously making you feel G and hoping that someday you'll give up so what is fittest business idea explain it it's primarily coaching so we have customers
• 107:00 - 107:30 in 100 plus countries and so personalized coaching where somebody like me would talk to the Chen or a SEMA and then we'd basically ask the same questions how's your diet how's your sleep and it's it all boils down to Basics most of the people are not getting their Basics right so educating them uh getting their basics in order and then showing them resultss that's what we do and are you coaching me via screen and how much are you charging me per session I'm not charging you anything I know thank you how much do
• 107:30 - 108:00 you charge for session so uh fitter starts at roughly 1,700 rupees a month right everything is virtual right uh that's the low end and then depending on coach's experience and let's say if you have Co mobilities the price has go up you have three customers here by the way sorry we three customers here the price goes up based on comorbidity I mean specialized that's a very like you know shocky move uh actually it's dependent
• 108:00 - 108:30 on Coach specialization because coaches have more experience so we they get to handle clients with Co mobilities so if somebody let's say doesn't come with any kind of baggage and a basic coach who just understands basic nutrition training would be able to deal with them but let's say if somebody is hitting let's say A you know per menopause or somebody who's a was a menopausal woman they' have issues they'll have mood issues they'll have anxiety issues thyroid would be out of VX so they'd need somebody who understands clinical
• 108:30 - 109:00 nutrition somebody who's expert in understanding behaviors of women around menopause because it's very tricky so it all boils down to that and that experience comes for a price tag so you're doing this well I'm sure you made some mistakes along the way what should I start what should a 20-year-old start in this realm that can be a successful business and what should they watch out for basically help create your
• 109:00 - 109:30 competition right I I think our model is going to keep growing as uh as the demand for personalized attention keeps growing and uh as we've seen in other aspects also like Consultants they are never out of business and it's just a matter of aggregating the right kind of consultants and you know just there there's going to be demand so people can replicate this business and they can actually become competitors so it's actually quite challenging for us how do we uh you know keep ourselves
• 109:30 - 110:00 Reinventing so that competitors don't eat up our share of the market or what's your Mo actually at this point to be very honest except for the community nothing is there some tech involved everybody can build Tech so right now the only leverage we have is the brand we have built for ourselves for the nine years and it can be easy overcome so we have to reinvent ourselves and we are in the process okay second tenet of longevity consumer
• 110:00 - 110:30 Diagnostics what's happening in the world of Diagnostics Diagnostics right so I think uh you know just moving a step higher in terms of so we are in this I think a unique moment in our lives right uh uh beyond the Do Not Die moment that we discussed I think where we have these
• 110:30 - 111:00 uh advanced screening modalities you know multiple modalities that are becoming more affordable coming out from the lab to mainstream right Beyond blood biochemistry we have uh better understanding of uh not only the structure of our gut and a microme but the function of it right how do we measure the function which is very different actually you can
• 111:00 - 111:30 kind of talk later more about that right so screen so looking at that then uh you also have metabolites we did speak about fundamentally metabolic pathways what Jessi was also talking about how do you get a better under the hood idea of your metabolic pathways and be able to measure them and then finally all of this is a lot of data right if you
• 111:30 - 112:00 didn't have ai you just can't make sense of all of this so building all of this into a model that can be you know uh worked through a not just gen right so something like this requires ml requires data engineering and requires a different uh type of uh you know a more comprehensive uh you know machine
• 112:00 - 112:30 learning model to be able to finally act as a agentic co-pilot co- assist for somebody who can as a as um as one of JC's coaches or Consultants should be able to use this tool to be a bit more precise so it's not the Diagnostics that is the idea I think it's being able to make those Diagnostics actionable and
• 112:30 - 113:00 that's where AI uh can actually help because otherwise the type of expertise required to really uh you know make sense of all this data is something that very few people can get to that level of expertise and training and it just won't be practical and scalable so so it's this is a huge opportunity very early days and there's a final dimension on this which is also what JC is using which is longitudinally kind of tracking
• 113:00 - 113:30 somebody and seeing what is changing so that's a maybe that's one more uh of of the your longivity things there but to not it's not about the one time right it's about then the what what the coach tells you what this health manager tells you and then can you remeasure and how often do you do that remeasurement right is it monthly is it quarterly but at some Cadence you need to be able to do
• 113:30 - 114:00 that and again an AI tool is needed to say what is really changing and is there a correlation between what you did and what changed so it's it's it's a it's a open wide space can you tell us the business model of biopak and what you're doing differently why should I come to you and not go to thyrocare also the money how much will you charge a client yeah how much does
• 114:00 - 114:30 it cost you for the equipment so first of all uh um why do you go to thra care because uh some doctor told you there is a I mean first of all why did you go to a doctor you went there because you think there is some some some something medically that's bothering you right and most doctors are Specialists so they specialize in a particular organ a particular function of your body right
• 114:30 - 115:00 and they when they send you for a test they actually send you for a test for that organ for that functioning of that particular portion of your body right that's we think medicine 1.0 2.0 and that's the old way of doing it the medicine 3 point of approach would be to take a more systemic whole body approach and and look at you know whether it is
• 115:00 - 115:30 your metabolism whether it is your um how how good is your cognitive function how good is your your physical and um performance uh uh at at a muscular and at a range of motion level right right so can you can you look at things slightly more holistically and integrate them into a more informed view
• 115:30 - 116:00 of your current state right and marry that with genetics and with that predict where should be your focus I don't think doctors ever doctors will tell you what to F I mean what what you go to a lab you measure some you measure something you take a medicine
• 116:00 - 116:30 for that and you try to fix that specific problem right so there is no whole body approach there is no system uh approach so that's where biopak and like I asked GC how much would I have to pay biop so we think that uh you know an entry price should be somewhere in the uh 80 80 90,000 Rupees to do this for which which
• 116:30 - 117:00 includes the screen the no it includes the screen plus maybe two to three months of followup on the intervention but then we'll have packages where you take a whole yearly memberships right but you're like a rich person product I've read about these longevity startups which are becoming like members club for rich people yeah so that's that's that's the second product that we will have which is uh you know the community the club uh you know
• 117:00 - 117:30 equivalent to a family health office you know right just like you have a a wealth manager you have a health manager who's dedicated to you who is clinically competent so who's not just um you know uh onedimensional in what so so the person could should be able to uh you know be able to manage your nutritional biochemistry should be able to manage your exercise optimally your sleep optimally so all of that uh and there we
• 117:30 - 118:00 will partner with the various folks can become Health managers right so we don't have to but I think various Health managers will require this kind of Diagnostics so I think the Health Management uh could have a very high-end uh you know Club model which could cost uh maybe $110,000 a year and I don't know Jessi what do you charge for a year for uh comparatively very cheap so that that's another uh but but
• 118:00 - 118:30 I think what we're talking about is empowering Health managers with tools that will help them be more precise and more predictive so where's the entrepreneurship opportunity here for a 25 year old I think uh to to be able to use I mean so like I said we don't want to build every aspect of the buiness business right so so let's say I'm a uh a trainer today right uh as a trainer uh or a a um a nutritional coach
• 118:30 - 119:00 right what am I basing some of my uh advisory or uh the U uh interventions or the guidance I'm giving my uh I think uh they'll be able to uh function better with data and I I think that's what we feel these tools can Empower that we can build so I think every
• 119:00 - 119:30 every coach who is providing you know some uh aspect of uh you know intervention and support we'll be able to do better with biopak with data so now you know n um I just want to add because I I think it might skip my mind he mentioned data sets India does not have data data set so there's a huge opportunity for somebody to just build into this how do they go about it how does a young person build a business out of this so AI needs to train on data
• 119:30 - 120:00 right and we ran into this problem when we were trying to figure out uh you know blood pressure so for example any Smart variable right they use regression as a tool to estimate any of these parameters they don't directly predict these parameters because they're noninvasive right so for regression you need to have a very large data set and unfortunately in India you don't have data set so all the data sets that you have are us-based data sets and so today there's a huge uh
• 120:00 - 120:30 we have the data sets it's unorganized you have the farmer companies you have hospitals but nobody has done the job of pulling medical data and put it put it in into a trainable data set but why would a hospital share that data uh important if India has to ever build anything that it can truly call its own like if India to become a Pioneer in AI it will need to have the data sets today we are talking about blood pressure estimation or let's say you know your HRV estimation tomorrow it could be
• 120:30 - 121:00 detection of let's say tuberclosis or something else all this data is available in hospitals but it's not digital it's not trainable so if somebody says hey I'm going to build the largest data set in India for medical data so that future a can be trained on essentially what the government is trying to do right which is to digitize the medical records but they don't have the right uh you know it's a data engineering problem like you said right so you will have all the data but you
• 121:00 - 121:30 know in in how do you kind of bring it together right you trainable dat make it usable I think is not something that the government is today no I have one question about uh so you know you come get yourself tested yes and you find say a certain marker is is in not in the optimal range correct now the thing is the guy who is reading the data is not you right I mean a health coach no no
• 121:30 - 122:00 it's the AI tool which the health coach can use you cannot yeah you cannot see the health coach knows will it's this is human in the loop AI so this is not independent AI okay no let me let me put it the right way uh say hba1c right yes uh it says 5.7% is is a cut off about 5.7 is yes now 5.7 like my doctor would say up to 6.2
• 122:00 - 122:30 you don't have to worry right right now someone else will say 5.5 is diabetus like how do you how do you ensure you know the diabetes at is straight forward but but a lot of other things how do you how do you make sure you're in the optimal range like like right now yeah he probably is in the upside of the range right he trying to optimize to on the top of the range but
• 122:30 - 123:00 but in India what I've seen is most doctors are happy if you're at the bottom of the range also like unless you're if you're outside this range it's a problem like how do you change that mentality in there see I I think that's more of the health manager's job right to be able to change that but but I can tell you there's one thing that you can help most people who don't know that they're in the trajectory of getting to that
• 123:00 - 123:30 pre-diabetes or diabetes stage right so that's where certain markers which chbc is where you have already it's happened like you're at 5.7 6.2 right but what if you are building insulin resistance right now right so there is a marker right let's say uh there's a marker called um I think uh uh two hydroxy butr now if you look at the levels of that marker
• 123:30 - 124:00 it'll tell you that not maybe this year next year you will be in a pre-diabetic state so if I can tell you that if this if this is a marker that I can now indicate to a coach or a health manager and say you know what I know that he's on the path to building insulin resistance and this will then lead to pre-diabetic or diabetic State uh for him to be in that state right can we can we look at what is the what what what is
• 124:00 - 124:30 the specific set of interventions from the his nutrition his exercise his sleep and whatever is calling causing that dysfunction right and there are ways in which you can metabolically look at why is he why why is he why is that insulin resistance kind of it could be deprivation of sleep it could be many many things so can you uh be a bit more re proactive and U and precise uh with
• 124:30 - 125:00 these uh markers is what we want to see now on the on on whether you're in what range right I think that is related to again Indian data so it's the same same thing like BMI BMI uh levels in India uh need to be low because our fat thresholds are lower right unless in Indian doctors and have have this now and and where did this data get
• 125:00 - 125:30 um kind of researched in Singapore right because they are putting money into doing this research to see to say okay what is different about Asian genetics right how is our genetics different from the Western gen BMI of 25 is is not is not going to lead to uh challenges for somebody there a metabolic syndrome in somebody in the US somebody in India maybe should be 21 22 to be
• 125:30 - 126:00 able to uh not not get into these challenges so I think um the the ability to actually look at what is different about our genetic makeup and how that with the nutrition that we we consume leads us into these deceased States I think is is is the broader challenge yeah so I want to build it business around data sets
• 126:00 - 126:30 because India doesn't have it what would be step one two three I don't have much money I'm 25 years old I think the easiest thing that you can do is just go to the hospitals and uh maybe you can uh you know work with the government they have this ABA uh integration and is it so abdm is a aayushman bhat so government has decided certain portfolios for what you could be you could be a uh Medical Data Storer you could be a lock provider
• 126:30 - 127:00 or you could be just like a uh you know like end service provider that you can register as one of those and for that you just have to show the POC to the government that this is what I intend to do and you'll get the access keys and everything and then build case with hospitals uh maybe work with them to figure out how you can get the data and convert them into trainable data sets so by trainable data sets what I mean is that you need to First collate all the
• 127:00 - 127:30 data segregate it by age gender and all of those things and then uh basis uh you know different kinds of uh let's say Co mobilities right so that becomes a trainable data because cleaning data itself is a huge problem and then do it with one hospital do it with let's say a chain of hospitals and then you know use that data and if that data can come from let's say uh devices for example let's say you have a
• 127:30 - 128:00 HR monitor or if you have a SP2 monitor that basically becomes a great tool for regression testing no that that the point here is the data the aishman bat the problem is the hospitals are not digitizing theid so even though the aishman the scheme is there it's not really taking off uh the the thing I think the biggest owners of data held data will be Apple and Samsung because of watch and I mean
• 128:00 - 128:30 that's that's what we are trying to do but yeah because you know once you have so much data yeah uh do Apple and Samsung share this data no they don't not for a fee no no the other monetization idea here for the data is the insurance companies right so you will have to somewhere make a case for the hospital that once the models are built and their models are predictive on a particular uh person's
• 128:30 - 129:00 data right there is value for the insurance and that has to be shared with the hospital so you'll have to make a monetization use case first right and and there are um insurance companies today looking at this very seriously and they have to because uh you know um as a country this is a second kind of dimension of it right see if this is done for example today insurance
• 129:00 - 129:30 companies spend a lot of people in assessing Hazard ratio some of the things are very straightforward but some of it's It's not a it's not a how do you say it's not an nuanced approach they are still following the same approach for you know arriving at a hazard ratio what they did 20 years back today even if somebody's living with let's say a condition for example in my case I have Hepatitis B but if you look at all my blood parameters they're perfect and my lifestyle is great so there's a good chance that I might out live somebody
• 129:30 - 130:00 who does not have anything like a hepatitis B but has a really bad lifestyle seems you want to add something to Consumer Diagnostics yeah what what would you want to see right what you had he like what would you pay for in in this diagnostic space What would I pay for yeah what what additional would you pay for beyond what you've kind of uh maybe uh you know the the fact that uh the breast cancer was could have
• 130:00 - 130:30 been detected earlier yeah that's what I would that's what I would claim we can do bi and you know you can be there but would that be a useful thing that definitely that would be a useful thing um prevention would be even better as you mentioned right see prevention I think is a very difficult I mean no it's a difficult thing because we're all uh vulnerable to things right
• 130:30 - 131:00 let's face it yeah but what you said right like like a gut something like a gut biome you said you know if there are any abnormalities yes you you can you can say certain strains again are indicative of certain impending uh disease States Alzheimer Parkinson's and all of these so I think yeah there is enough data on this but going back to what JC and me are saying there is no correlation of this data to
• 131:00 - 131:30 the Indian uh somebody needs to build a business around the data set we we have to build a and no but some of it uh you know I know that you probably don't like this answer but it requires research funding right which is not a business today right uh some of but why do you need research money for creating a data set no because like today nobody is measuring that gut uh no nobody has that amount of data on the gut right see we are assuming hospitals are keeping clean
• 131:30 - 132:00 data chances are they might not yeah JC some whiskey for you okay so here's the difference look no no no class one carcinogen right so Kucha [Laughter] come on so so Jessi is there a spectrum alcohol I mean I think alcohol is a is a zero 01 right so there is no Spectrum I
• 132:00 - 132:30 mean any any amount of alcohol is bad yes right and I think agree but but in the Spectrum isn't something allowed like like not alcohol right it's like it maybe once a month see we are talking cellular level there are things that affect you at a cellular level and there are things that don't mess with you at a cellular level okay alcohol has formal deide formal deide has the potential to
• 132:30 - 133:00 damage your DNA so at a cellular level it is damaging now just in case I mean case in point so we talk about cancer right everybody has cancer genes but how do cancer spread basically your cells start dividing uncontrollably when the genetic code that controls the growth of cell cell division mitosis that code is either damage right or let's say over a period of time the cells are like you know what we don't want to follow this we want to follow something else so
• 133:00 - 133:30 mutation and this happens when you have carcinogens that have the potential to disrupt your DNA alcohol any amount of alcohol will have formal deide right and the minute it enters your system it does not even need to go through each and every cell of your body even in your blood you have blood cells you have uh you know uh white cells you have red cells you have so many cells it can start messing around with cell division of any of these cells I was then you have liver right so so many places where
• 133:30 - 134:00 it can attack the I was listening in on podast da aspry and he was talking about Kawa you know about Kawa yeah it's a sorry what Kawa kawawa apparently KVA KVA K so it's a type of drink uh which is made from the roots of a uh some kind of vegetable or fruit or whatever and people are drinking it to get slightly
• 134:00 - 134:30 intoxicated and and it's it's becoming popular in the US apparently so so yeah so CA drink and coffee is intoxic ASE do you have yeah Dave aspre I have my own I share the we share the same thing on so who is good I know your views on Brian M let's go to the next one I think we both we both agree the same thing that he does more right then wrong like his Basics and everything is
• 134:30 - 135:00 in order what I have problem with is some of the experimental Therapeutics the 100 PS and everything most of these things are unvalidated so as long as he's keeping those experiments in check and he's doing it on himself as a science experiment good I'm just saying Don't Preach those experiments on people because you are doing feston you're replacing your Albin uh your blood plasma with albumin people are going to do that and these are first of all very expensive treatments with side effects
• 135:00 - 135:30 but if nobody does the research how how do we ever innovate no do it yourself but don't say that don't tell to people but is he saying asking people I think to that extent he's doing fine I think I mean so huberman good Dave asprey ubberman uberman largely good largely good yeah David Sinkler mixed same Tim feris Tim Ferris is not really long yeah who and uh Peter AA
• 135:30 - 136:00 Peter ATA largely good good JC fitter JC fitter very good look I'm I'm not a s let's do the Indian ones okay JC fitter Marcus ramney Marcus ramney ramney your uh Endo what's his name kadam b kadam see I'll tell you I think uh you know the I mean I have one or two benchmarks in how to look at I mean whether it's
• 136:00 - 136:30 Indian or how how compromised are they in terms of selling or being you know married to some product or supplement right so you got to watch out and second I think in some cases they they just have have this super ego and want to uh kind of satisfy that ego and want to make uh you know certain
• 136:30 - 137:00 claims just to uh just to kind of get uh uh stand out right and and I think a lot of social influencing in in this space is around that and third um being single dimensional right A lot of them they're like okay you got to be traditional in everything that you do right you got to eat like what your an ancestors it's just it's not contextual
• 137:00 - 137:30 right so I I think you should watch out for any of these signals yeah and use them as you know I actually I want to ask JC something you're the only influencer left now since Brian has gone but do you get a lot of hate for what you say I mean because everything you know in in the health in the topic of Health influencing there's no right way there is I mean there are
• 137:30 - 138:00 different ways so do you do you get hate on yeah I do I do I do so most of the times the hate comes from a place of ignorance I'm on the side of being rational and being logical and then being driven by uh any of the other things which is which could be culture religion propaganda politics right so because you can't have science mixed up with these things that's a very dangerous concoction I mean with with science uh there might be people who have a strong uh s strong signs backing
• 138:00 - 138:30 a certain idea like you might say um um say say for example Kawa I just spoke about you might say Kawa is not good and someone might say Kawa is good how do you prove that that biggest challenge for people like us I mean three or yeah is you listen to supplement consumers yeah supplement consumers is no I I asked him the same question I'm like how right is is it to
• 138:30 - 139:00 follow someone and then they'll list out you know I take this that that and then you just oh okay you know what let me buy all these and how how safe is that right so the problem happens is when when people don't understand the basics and by Basics basic can be very complicated for example biochemistry as extreme complex so unless until somebody understands the biochemistry they won't be able to ask the right questions for example let's say Brian for example for a for a lay man he would be easily uh he
• 139:00 - 139:30 would have been able to convince somebody that hey take enmen uh it's a precursor to NAD kids have lots of enery you don't have enough enery and that's why you're aging so if you take more enery you will slow down your aging somebody who understands biochemistry will throw homeostasis at him somebody will tell him hey that's not how the body works most of the NAD and nadh is produced in the mitochondria itself and it's produced depending on the metabolic efficiency like an unfit person would
• 139:30 - 140:00 require more amount of food to produce less amount of ATP and and and vice versa right so somebody who understands the reactions somebody who understands the body's physiology he would be able to ask the right kind of questions if you don't ask the right kind of questions you'll likely agree to them that's the problem and which is happening with primarily everybody 10 years back when I started my knowledge was primarily restricted to nutrition which is energy balance and exercise science over the years I learned biochemistry I learned physiology then statistics uh how to do research so all
• 140:00 - 140:30 of those things had to be assimilated and unfortunately there's no course in India or outside that provides you a 360 view is that a business idea start a course it it should be it should be it's need of time we do it through infs but it's not at a level where we inculcate extreme what is infs NFS is our sister concern so we train our coaches there but in fact I was just thinking about it I was going to have a chat with uh you
• 140:30 - 141:00 know my co-founder that you know infs this's time when infs goes into the depth of everything like you cover not just nutrition training and basic clinical nutrition but biochemistry we can help do together yeah we should should talk about certainly do you want to finish your thought on cancer detection you were saying something you got cut off no I mean no I I I think the other challenge a lot of cancer survivors would have is uh how do I know that this thing is not
• 141:00 - 141:30 going to recover recur right and for recurrence is there certain markers again that I can be more proactive and predictive no also oncologists right in India are very I mean it's very black and white you have to take this pill so that you don't you that you keep saying you to take for 6 years or something but you don't want to take exactly right but then over time that I mean that tablet has the
• 141:30 - 142:00 side effect that it might cause AAL cancer and muscle and workout and all that exactly uh you know my um bone density is not very great it's not deteriorating but it's not even getting better I have joint pains uh I have hot flashes I'm I mean so I'm like thinking do I want to live you know take this pill for the next whatever seven eight years and live like this one I mean just to just that off chance that I you know I won't
• 142:00 - 142:30 get cancer or do I want to live a good quality of life just maintain a healthy diet and be like you know what and and not take the pill so it seems you've had a couple years of torture I've seen you go go through operation I don't know half a dozen times in the last two years what could have made the experience better for you the entire thing from the beginning from going to nura getting detected to finding a doctor in manipal
• 142:30 - 143:00 then here then there then surgery then plastic surgery if I think back um see I mean luckily we are in a position that it wasn't very bad for me but then what does that mean if I in the sense I had family support we financially Financial Independence we didn't have to really think about money because that's the first thing right like because my
• 143:00 - 143:30 question to her when she said I have breast cancer was reconstructive surgery but she said normal people ask how much the surgery will cost right the mtim so but then if I think like from a you know women's perspective I think firstly no one even bothered about my mental state
• 143:30 - 144:00 of mind it was all about just um oh cancer we have to do this this this also just to find the right doctors I mean it was so difficult it's it's not easy to find the right oncologist especially without I mean you know any like we had I mean you knew a lot of people so we figured it out out but I would really I mean it'll be great if there is a database where I know everyone will have different experience you think like a doctor ranking system
• 144:00 - 144:30 business a curated Marketplace for doctors no I think this is this is an area in biopak we want to be able to do uh which is I think the expert see everybody like I said comes with either something that they don't know about or people come with a problem they already already have right right there for how can you make that expert opinion right more accessible right both at an India
• 144:30 - 145:00 level and maybe at a regional level no what I mean is if she got detected for cancer and seems want to wants to find out which doctors fall in the top 5 percentile 20 percentile but but the thing is yeah will you be able to guide the person right no but but how do you guide them because no because because you have built those because as biop you have the relationships with them with
• 145:00 - 145:30 those doctors but that that is only you're going to only solve for a small subset of people I feel like every doctor should be S solved for by virtue of maybe the success rate then it becomes like zato and swi restaurant rating or that it gets Ked yeah it's good games because anyone also with doctor right it's very different I might have a wonderful experience with someone but then someone else might not have that kind of but that will net off right like after 100 people if 70 have good
• 145:30 - 146:00 experience with this doctor yeah that's sure so a business around a non schable way of ranking ranking doctors and getting access to networks that are highly credible was supposed to be that right PR two yeah but they they again like I said you know you you need to be really curated and it's not something that can be yeah I don't think factor is curated they more of a listing platform you have the ratings there right yeah but I think uh un
• 146:00 - 146:30 schable it's not un schem like who's vouching for yeah the quality there has to be a system that says you know if somebody has given you a bad rating that stays like a quality agency in itself which does nothing else y goes to the hospital when you have your surgery sits there for 1 hour does, of repetition what what's the monetization there are actually agencies like this in the US who monetize this no but uh charge the hospital hospital why
• 146:30 - 147:00 will the hospital pay to get better ranking doctors and to have quality check of their own doctors yeah this will reputation for hospitals hospital then it becomes like uh uh what's the no but but still I mean while it's game to some extent but it's still reasonably credible don't but you think about it there was this company called second opinion um and they found out they did a survey and they found out
• 147:00 - 147:30 that almost 41% of the surgeries were unnecessary so how is it that two doctors one is saying go for a surgery and one is saying don't go for a surgery so what we saying is the intermediary quality agency which sits in between a patient and a doctor in a hospital right at a very broad level and for at a premium level a more curated subset of that for people who can afford I think both are opportunities Nel the one thing we missed is talking about is devices I was
• 147:30 - 148:00 just talking about a device that's available in the US today to measure V2 Max for a normal person you know no it's not a 100,000 you know complicated uh device right I think a lot of these will have value in India and uh um good monetization potential too and uh no but but most of the devises yeah JC excuse me on this but is is really are not really Indian made as in
• 148:00 - 148:30 you you you're forced because there is no supply chain of these devises so you're forced to go to China pick up something and come and sell it as in no but I mean let's leave the China angle aside right so you as a you still are owning the IP and you're manufacturing it in China right so hopefully but the thing about my whole thing about this devises thing is the guys with the biggest
• 148:30 - 149:00 distribution are going to kill it yes see now I'm I'm somewhere taking nichels startup thing as not only startups that can become all 500 billion to a billion right yeah I mean the thing is if you're only a only a variable company getting to that itself is really tough because how do you differentiate now JC has got fitter's got a community so you can sell sell them Rings right no no our primary
• 149:00 - 149:30 business model is not the ring itself you know the primary business model is changing the metrics once you get the data what do you do with the data yeah so but but how do you how do you know the thing is variable now if if this person goes and gets the V2 Max uh whatever device uh there'll be 10 others replicating it in no time no no there is IP that's what I'm saying see some of these devices I believe in India in the next 10 years there will be some I every
• 149:30 - 150:00 every every IP need not be just a follow on IP like what we've had in the last 10 years is where I'm going with right why why can't we believe that uh there is certain medical device IPS that will be uh novel and um at a price point in India that will will be more usable and Deployable in the country compared to
• 150:00 - 150:30 just importing that's that's if an Indian can come up with the IP that he can call his own yes no Nel but see even if you make any high-end manufacturing take any high-end device 90% of all Electronics is a China Taiwan and South Korea so you cannot truly control the IP from a hardware point of view but there's a lot of Ip involved in the not Hardware side of things for example you
• 150:30 - 151:00 can patent on the design all right you can patent in the algorithms you can patent in the function so there's a lot of Ip thing that you can do but to the point where you know nowadays anybody can challenge any IP and all you have to do is like just make small differentiation and then it'll take years for somebody to prove that it's the same thing so you know even IP is not entirely protectable so I think in today's market the thing is first to Market distribution that's pretty much
• 151:00 - 151:30 it so and uh you can also look at distribution I mean again just to look at Ultra human right uh they went to every country where Aura is not there first and said can we solve for noil yeah so I'm saying why can't we have 10 such companies uh come up you know people have will learn from the old playbooks will build on those playbooks and like I said in science and
• 151:30 - 152:00 engineering I think we are getting better you know I think ultrahuman also made of at least a few uh at a software level I think uh yeah uh they they did some some Innovations and no it's it's never just the hardware trust me the kind like when you when you get the hardware the hardware is like bare minimum so you can take the hardware 10 other people can take the hardware design is where you have Elementary control like okay my device is going to look a certain way it's going to feel a certain way the packaging is software is
• 152:00 - 152:30 where the differentiation lies because at the end of the day what is the user looking at he's looking at the data on his phone what all features are there how you extrapolate everything is China and tsmc right including apple and Nvidia but the AI and the software layer on top of it right will be something that will make a difference and you can own is I guess what we're saying no I I uh by uh I'm not talking about the manufacturing I'm talking about Apple going to China saying I want to make
• 152:30 - 153:00 apple watches versus someone else going to China saying I want Apple watch right as in it's a it's two different things but let's look at um the idea of variables itself right in 10 years I think we'll be in a different place the type of things will be sensing and measuring continuously I think will be dramatically different and there I believe there are a lot of opportunities
• 153:00 - 153:30 for Indian entrepreneurs to one of the things I I I hope is a chip somewhere planted in between it can measure my glucose it can measure my I'm I'm that so so your cortisols your cortisol your glucose and uh blood blood report everything dynamically right uh my my guess 10 years yeah I would say it's already there in there are some countries which are doing research on
• 153:30 - 154:00 this yeah yeah they just plant a chip inside your body they'll do a surgery and then it'll measure everything hey there is one device now that can measure lactate and glucose continuously uh so you want to know your install as in no no no it's just senses it senses the skin level u i mean there are certain uh skin level changes that you can sense when you're when your laed levels are higher right so um so there's
• 154:00 - 154:30 uh some of these devices for because how do you know you're in zone 2 through some lactate measurements so you popular opinion if you had to buy one device poop or uh Ultra human Apple Google J what device do we buy one device don't say anything I know your answer but I'll ask you a heart rink you know I I might be
• 154:30 - 155:00 the only one who' be able to explain you what each of these things do no no you please go Ahad go for it help you improve them because most of the people who buy these gadgets right they don't know what to do next I think that's and that actually is the problem we were trying to solve we didn't want to be like another Gadget first we sent out a proposal to these companies and we like hey we have a community we have coaches we are amazing at you know helping people fix their Lifestyles why don't you guys partner with us and when we didn't saw any
• 155:00 - 155:30 response then we looked at can we do something of our own so it was like watches bands and they were like okay ring is the best because it technically has the more number of hours of people wearing them because watches tend to get uncomfortable and so today our differentiation is not the hardware the differentiation is look there's a hardware which is decently good it provides all the metrics as accurately as any other devices probably better than SmartWatches but you look at the metrics and what next right which is where you
• 155:30 - 156:00 keep wondering if you are with somebody else it be like hey this is my V2 Max now what the hell is V2 Max or this is my rhr what the hell does my rhr indicate what is this HRV fluctuation happening what should I measure right so even though there's a lot of data on what these are there's no data on how can you systematically get them better so it's not about the device it's what sits on top of the device but JY U um things
• 156:00 - 156:30 like let's say how your activity is measured right are there some such functions where one device is better than the other yes so it all depends on sampling rate for example again you have Apple watch for instance they don't sample your heart rate as frequently as let's say a so in of sampling has the highest sampling rate and that's why it's most accurate so when we do calculation for certain things like for example HR spo2 and HRV these are pretty standard functions most of the devices will get
• 156:30 - 157:00 them accurately right but when we talk about let's say calorie expenditure and activities I think then kind of so would be far more accurate because it's sampling the heart rate every minute and then because of that it's using a better formula which is your heart rate load because there's a direct correlation between heart rate load and your energy expenditure other devices are using me equivalent you know the problem with M equivalant right they are a generalized derivation of from a generalized set of people so they're not
• 157:00 - 157:30 very accurate so you go to the gym your Apple watch will show you you burn 600 calories in an hour whereas a or a heart ring will show oh you only burn 250 calories but but what I've seen okay I've used everything yeah I mean I find Apple watch convenient and the reason I find it convenient it's not very intrusive uh about this calorie thing I get it but but the thing is it's consistent along the lines so if you if you if you know what is burning th000 calories on Apple watch you can assume it's not, it's 600
• 157:30 - 158:00 500 whatever right but then but it gives you a consistent 500 now with so does whoop right yeah it does so consistently does but the thing is whoop is wearing you to wear it 24 24 hours is I wear it on my feet I used to wear it on my feet yeah but then you have to carry that separate I think every device in the world should have a c type yeah it makes no sense to have a we charger for
• 158:00 - 158:30 a yeah I mean that's why I stopped wearing what about uh CGM CGM again I'm not a huge fan of CGM it's great for diabetics but in non-diabetics there's no data that suggest it helps non-diabetics I mean apart from making people feel scared of every single food on the planet that the blood glucose and you know that blood glucose spikes are completely fine there's no problem with blood glucose they need to come down in a reasonable yeah exactly so but but for somebody who
• 158:30 - 159:00 is probably you know in some stages of pre-diabetes right and wants to really optimize their the type of food they eat yeah and optimize maybe also the eating windows and kind of go through that phase of seeing what works for them yeah I think it in my opinion it has value there's a level of personalization that the devices can offer yeah but I think
• 159:00 - 159:30 today that level of personalization is not like a hidden treasure I would say everybody would agree hey eat a little bit earlier than your B time um eat fewer meals than you would like don't hop on six or seven eels and then eat within your caloric intake if you want to figure out that basis a CGM device sure but I'd say that you're kind of over complicating stuff because this stuff is out there in the open um you know but if if somebody
• 159:30 - 160:00 feels that you know instead of 9:00 my CGM it tells me to eat at 8:00 well more power to you longevity supplements this is the big one everybody will I know we're all taking different things even though JC might say no and all his head I know I'm not I'm not I'm not taking anything I can go on record and tell you guys I'm not taking anything I was looking through a bag and I found this growth
• 160:00 - 160:30 hormone I didn't bring any back no I think supplements will continue to be a huge business yeah yeah bus unfortunately yes it's going to be a huge business because of takers what should one take I logic again I'm going back to you know JC will agree that you have to measure right and that's where but without measuring what would you recommend vitamin D no no no
• 160:30 - 161:00 vamin D based on the generic data set of Indian yeah based on generic I I think most of us have this vitamin D plus K deficiency right I mean that combination you can't go wrong at a broad level Omega 3 omega 3 also for most of us I think but again Omega 3 I feel you should measure I think at some point we need to be able to really measure and say what is good I mean how many units of Omega C I have two so I don't know
• 161:00 - 161:30 why is two good enough right maybe it should be one maybe it should be five uh so I think five is too much one is too little just so so we're all we like estimating and we're taking some broad but magnesium seems to be something that's uh everybody agrees on yeah I mean it does help most of because the number of uh I was talking about the fancy stuff Prashant I know you take some fancy stuff see I I think um I
• 161:30 - 162:00 found uh that there's enough data on uh lutin and zantin for your eyes what lutin and zantin we just don't get enough of it in our diets it's for your eyes for your eyes and once you're in the 40s and I think you take it every day take it every day uh and there's enough uh um I mean research data on on on that spec on these specific ones
• 162:00 - 162:30 unlike unlike NN and some of these other things we discussed NN you take every day no I don't take uh n you take I take I take uh see I I I take creatin I think creatin if you are exercising uh and uh again widely studied yeah enough data on creatin and if you're 50 plus I think it is beneficial you should do creatin right so I'm telling you things that I've I know that there is data right uh
• 162:30 - 163:00 uh I like fresh [Music] on uh there is no data on College he says no supplements everything you're saying is no no no I mean this like most of the longevity supplements these are not long so n uh I think there is some data n is precursor to glutathion yeah GL glutathion I mean if I take glutathion IV maybe once in a month along with there's not enough data vitamins I take something called on just glut so there
• 163:00 - 163:30 is uh uh some decent data on asanin asra as asanin asanin which is for your skin right it's an antioxident but it seems to have the one of the enough dat I mean I would say a data oral supplement uh like if creatin and some of these are like 9 on 10 I would say this is like 7 on 10 in terms of you know the thing with IV yeah it feels like you're doing
• 163:30 - 164:00 something walking a tablet doesn't feel enough when somebody comes pokes a hole in you and there's a bag you sit for one and you watch drop drop drop you feel like you've done something so so the one funny supplements at neut Tropics right like ashwag gandha I found zero lose for myself right you're going to get a lot of hate for this by the way I know I know let them I mean that's what I'm saying and this I go back to saying where you know every
• 164:00 - 164:30 supplement is not for everyone right it's not like ashwagandha I mean just because huban says ashwagandha is good doesn't mean that everybody if if it works for you yeah not even shilajit no I I don't take shilajit I have people who have been in this house earlier today by it practical experience I mean if it works for them that's great right but I'm I'm not I'm not using shy right all shogy studies are funded by the company that makes shilajit formulation primary V don't they say they find it on
• 164:30 - 165:00 some rock in the mountain and all I mean all you have to ask them it what exactly is there in shilajit fic acid yes and what part of the hpda access is it uh helping is it helping your hypothalamus is it helping your leutinizing home hormone as a affecting your FSH how exactly there's no know mechanism I think in some of this the mechanisms itself is the problem right we don't know the mechanisms so what's with collagen see collagen the there's like I
• 165:00 - 165:30 mean most studies again have failed very few collagen Studies have succeeded uh I like Prashant more and more yeah and there is there is uh you know uh it's it's a very poor protein if you if you're taking it to comp imp your protein will it do any harm for you I don't think so you can spend money on it and be happy but it's not going to do much right now there's not enough collagen production is also Gene
• 165:30 - 166:00 regulated so you taking oral collagen is not going to be the same as it's getting in your gut it's getting because you taking creatin now creatin has a specific creatin specific receptors that help create and you know go through the cell membrane so CRT uh receptors but collagen if you if you just take collagen it'll end up in your bloodstream but it will not affect any of these things it's not not getting into any cell membrane it's it's not and
• 166:00 - 166:30 what you getting is basically uh essential amino acids which your body can automatically produce when in times of need so you taking collagen supplementation is not going to in any way any way meaningfully increase the production of collagen that's completely determined by collagen specific genes which again are determined basis your lifestyle and you know other epigenetic factors what else what else uh I think
• 166:30 - 167:00 top of the stack uh I think these are the best I do do some um postbiotics prebiotics uh uh inulin you were telling me the other day prebiotics are as important as yeah prebiotics are as important right uh so and I think it depends on how much fiber you're otherwise consuming do you want to supplement some Fiber if you just can't eat that much fiber but it just it
• 167:00 - 167:30 depends on your your nutritional value but I think uh it's a slightly more complex thing this prebiotics postbiotics um but I think uh it's it's it's something that I would definitely put some effort on I think here uh i' just like to flag that and this I mean I went through this uh because of the tropical environment we are in and all kinds of food that we eat
• 167:30 - 168:00 uh East in our gut is a very common thing among Indians and we all uh I mean how do we fix it we keep taking antacids and we think that's the way to solve our gut problem but actually you got to and it's called Candida right I don't know if you heard of candada uh right it's a type of East and very very common in all of us uh if so the uh the extra bloating that you feel
• 168:00 - 168:30 uh all of it is because of this candida East in uh and there's a little bit of that in everybody but when it overtakes and it also compromises your membrane your gut membrane it kind of leads to other complications but I think I would uh uh just not worry about just general gut micro so what do you do for this candida candid candida what do you do for it you you need to go to a good I mean there
• 168:30 - 169:00 are a few places I I mean in India that will of course at some point um you know many more places but getting a credible gut microbiome screening place is also difficult in India but if you find a good one then they'll be able to detect candada also to everyone disclosure we are not asking anybody to take any of what we are eating we are just talking about the tablets and supplements we are eating nobody listen and go eat any of what we
• 169:00 - 169:30 said no definitely so the other question is uh when it comes to Omega supplements right uh the algae versus uh fish oil I constantly go back and forth kill oil huh krill oil too oh krill oil I don't know is a fish right no Krill is not a fish yeah it is it I thought yeah Krill it is a kind of fish oil so I think alga is the only plant-based uh uh Omega
• 169:30 - 170:00 supplement uh not enough data uh or as much data as fish oil and fish oil everybody says gets ranid uh you know it's going to not if you have it right after food no no no no rans said as in the cap the see one is the source of body no no no outside outside you don't know if what you're eating is already rancid and you don't know the source of that and how much mercury was there in that fish right so it's a little bit of I'm like always uh
• 170:00 - 170:30 still struggling with finding the right so I think somebody for India is there a brand of supplements you TR trust like I feel like there's a huge opportunity here for somebody to display the testing and give you the supplements think Brian was speaking about when it comes to food right and me andan were also talking about it recently I think there is a huge opportunity for a brand that can be
• 170:30 - 171:00 out and open on the lab testing they have done and the problem is what is that credible lab that you will uh B I think the first thing any company should do is get a spectrometer like every I mean you can't you have to get lab inhouse because as long as you're getting tested you mean at home you're saying no in-house as in the distribution the distribution because you want to be testing you know at a fre
• 171:00 - 171:30 certain frequency and you can't do it if you send it outside and and not just with supplements even with food as in just to be like I question every single thing that you have a spectrometer at home spectrometer is expensive no but supplementation he wants to now start growing his own vegetables so no but supplements in India I think huge question yeah yeah so they don't come from like they're not engine they're not they're not like homebred because even
• 171:30 - 172:00 if we talk about way protein it's not that we have way protein companies in India you know like besides amul I don't think just importing we are importing everything and when it comes to we protein you're just mixing stuff labeling it and selling it and most of the manufacturing happens are the same set of guys so yeah yeah that's also problem what about the tablet you were asking Brian about rap R yeah see rap
• 172:00 - 172:30 now let's come to the longevity no let's I think finish off this uh supplementing yeah the r is One supplement I think people take um uh I I think uh are you on it I'm not on it because I'm um I think longevity India is going to do a trial on this in India uh on Ramy um you take it once a week and uh it U has shown to um you
• 172:30 - 173:00 know modify or act on the MTAR pathway and that MTO pathway is the pathway uh that you know in a lot of clinical trials with mice and with other uh mammals as shown um to be most effective to increase longevity growth hormones uh not very even even for Romy and see what happens is like and uh so he's
• 173:00 - 173:30 talking about mtor pathway so it is Mamon Target of repy so there's basically two different Pathways in body so let's say you have states of high energy availability and high Amo acid in circulation amk and you want yes so you have the amk and Mt pathway now there was a research last year um this guy came out and he said higher mtor activation because of leine resulted an increase in macras activity you must have read that one right and so he
• 173:30 - 174:00 wasn't implying anything and they did this testing in rats it was a mechanistic study and then you had this whole whole Army of influencers going up and saying protein is killing you because it's activating Mt pathway by the way so rapy in oral form would let's say affect your pathway the same can be also affected by simply working out eating enough amount of protein so if somebody's not working out and not eating enough amount of protein they can benefit from uh taking romycin
• 174:00 - 174:30 but if you were working out and you feel taking adequate amount of protein no difference so and thek pathway is the one that uh you know is is a pathway that uh gets activated when you fast yeah for certain periods of time so that's the pathway that impacts you know cleanup and uh fasting is good as a no-brainer right everybody agrees so there I think there is I mean I'm starting to like look at
• 174:30 - 175:00 uh uh not just Tim restricted uh eating which is one which is the most common thing but real fasting which is let's say this 3 + 2 day modality where uh 3 days you just eat the normal amount of calories or maybe may you can even increase it a little bit so your weekly averages don't change and 2 days of maybe 50% of the calories recycle this basically average out the calories average out the calories but give but but do this kind
• 175:00 - 175:30 of uh uh that seems to have there seems to be more and more data I'm getting convinced on in doing this 3 plus2 I'm doing 16 17 hours every day H that is on a day that that's fine but then I'm saying that's not fasting really do you agree I mean see fasting itself is the first uh principle is that fasting puts you in a state of calorie deficit we have lots of studies we have the uh calorie 1 calorie 2 yeah the whole calorie trials
• 175:30 - 176:00 and then we also have lots of studies which have proven that calorie deficit a slight calorie deficit over a period of time results in improved mitochondrial efficiency and improved mitochondri overall body markers improve across the board so as long as fasting is getting into your state of calorie deficit in a sustainable manner it's good but for a lot of people like people who go on dry fast for example or let's say a 3-day continuous fast without eating anything those are so periods of extreme eating
• 176:00 - 176:30 and periods of extreme starvation so you'll have uh mtor pathway and then you'll have simultaneously ampk but both res in extremes right and that's not sustainable that's not good so as long as it's sustainable fasting can be a good way for somebody achieve caloric restriction growth hormones not very I don't have yeah I I don't support them because growth hormones like anything that you put in your body in exogenous Manner and takes
• 176:30 - 177:00 your what if your body has a deficit if you're measuring it if you have a clinical uh diagnosis that you don't have enough let's say human growth hormone or then in that case yeah sure makes sense they they give it to a lot of kids who have deficien icies when growing up to increase their height and other things but both testosterone and growth hormones I think there are ways in which you can organically increase it U
• 177:00 - 177:30 through a set of things I mean not not just supplementation yeah but a set of things that you can do for growth hormone that uh insulin like growth factors igf one it's certain range and if you're at the lower end of the range you can optim to be at the higher end you have to keep taking it no but growth hormone is not required testosterone is have to be taking it growth hormone there's a certain cycle you still have to follow
• 177:30 - 178:00 for growth right you need to do a certain cycle and then stop it and the problem with growth hormones or any hormones for example they can penetrate the nucleus um and again the same set of side effects exist so I mean most of the growth hormones they are isolated so they're pretty safe but you cannot absolutely guarantee that they are going to Target specific cells so one of the side effects of growth hormones is growth of other organs which is the unintended consequences let's say
• 178:00 - 178:30 you take growth hormones to improve your muscle hypertrophy now Heart is also a muscle so people observe megal in their heart right so Hearts grow bigger and so you know organ enlargement is also a common side effect of growth hormones so is this this anywhere related to hormone replacement therapy HRT is different HRT is different hormone therap uh growth hormones are different um but if you're talking in HRT so maybe trt and then
• 178:30 - 179:00 probably for women they prescribe HRT if you um if you are lacking in them or if you generally chronically have uh low levels of let's say um you know your your let's say a progesterone or yeah or in case of males be testosterone so in which case they can prescribe but there has to be a clinical diagnosis and there should be a good enough reason because these things come with their own side of uh you know side effects but there's a
• 179:00 - 179:30 little bit more data on HRT being useful in certain specific situations so I think testosterone same exogenous testosterone first of all it shuts down your natural testosterone right so if you are willing to go through testosterone rep adment therapy every year I think if if it works for you sure it can provide you Vitality it can make you feel great works for but what are the what have you seen
• 179:30 - 180:00 to kind of increase it it will increase your cardiovascular risk and how do you take it oral supplement no no hormones need to be injected like most of these hormones will have to be injected orally they will not be like bio this Tonka and and all of that nonsense no no no no data no data CPS yeah they don't work some of these hubman types talk about it ton he does tonali and
• 180:00 - 180:30 F so hubman also has a conflict of interest because AGI promises they have all of these things and hubman has an investment in AGI no no no a ag1 doesn't really have this tongali and Pia it doesn't aan is is a is a essentially a a vitamin and a mineral drink no that's like your like like a green juice the green juice which has your all the micronutrients it is it's more micronutrient the problem Brian had was
• 180:30 - 181:00 the fact that they're paying influences quite a bit uh so if if you're selling something of $100 and you're paying $20 forever to the influencer but then brine stuff is also very expensive it's not cheap yeah so that's what I wanted yeah it's very but then he said that what what goes into it he's open sourced open sourced isn't ag1 like that a no no AG no no ag1 has this other problem right they don't tell you what exactly
• 181:00 - 181:30 is the I mean that is a problem okay so final takeaways I think we've recorded for near five hours wow four hours four hours no wasn't joking when he told me that the podcast went on for five hours just short takeaways in the sense a outside of the supplements you mentioned first thing I want to know is there something you're taking that he's not no I'm only taking vitamin B12 and I'm taking fin ride fin ride is
• 181:30 - 182:00 it's it's for hair basically so if you have a which is androgenic alopecia so male pattern that's actually interesting question is there something for hair to reverse balding no not reverse fin TR doeses what it it basically protect what you have D HD blocker minoxidil minoxidil is more like caffeine you know it will stimulate hair follicles yeah so it will stimulate hair follicles it will give you but again the amount of alcohol
• 182:00 - 182:30 they put in minoxidil it's likely not good for you so I'd rather stick to something which is more caffeine based um than minoxidil so the b supplement sorry I missed it I do take some B vitamin B vitamin B is like B complex no it depends on which you don't need necessarily all of them yeah so you shouldn't be taking a b complex whether it's B6 or B12 or f8 uh you know which depends on so in my blood test I do
• 182:30 - 183:00 these like every quarter so in that I had a deficiency of B12 so Tak and uh I think you get it otherwise from animal sources right meat B12 is I didn't check the sour I forget but we all I think I think B12 deficiency is a common one so I think it was a big miss that I didn't mention that but uh today when ji was coming and we were asking everybody what you lead for dinner like don't tell anyone but I want a steak nobody
• 183:00 - 183:30 knows who me you know this is amazing I'm learning things about I I know EG apparently right no but steak is you don't need anything but no no I had uh had salad I had food no no but like in meat I had chicken I thought you were vegetarian hence I was making the I was tonight I had to turn like in the middle of the podcast I'm not going to tell someone I can't not eating that that's everybody was e what supplements are you guys taking that is not on the list yeah what are
• 183:30 - 184:00 youing I'm on a whole ton of them yeah so I take a picture just I just meant um kind of curious one or two which I didn't mention right like like tongali I heard no no I not tongali say as soon as I get up in the morning I thyroid tablets what thyroid thyroid okay thyroids both both of us okay so that's more thenuh sorry athletic greens ag1 ag1 a
• 184:00 - 184:30 whole bunch then with after breakfast I I take a whole lot of them so like which are the I mean I just am curious which are the ones that we didn't talk about Coline Alpha GPC alanine oh Al Alpha I mean Alpha GPC I mean this is for mental health I mean I I started a lot of this and okay after the you know after this
• 184:30 - 185:00 year stroke I I thought yeah I've I mean colen I've heard and uh uh B12 B2 the then then yeah there are there are there are a bunch of them you know so I don't know how much it's helping me but but I'm taking s what are the ones which you we should take nothing um that yeah wasn't mentioned here okay yeah thyroid is is something a medical yeah
• 185:00 - 185:30 what what do you think of uh you know some of these autoag supplements like cortin ftin that's practically what is there in amk right I know but but if you had to do you think in addition to what you would do otherwise in fasting and so on uh is there enough data on these uh no there's no data in fact fasting is no better than just being in a state of calorie deficit we just had a metanalysis come out few days I think
• 185:30 - 186:00 the whole myth started when this guy uh yoshu Mari he got a Nobel Prize he got a Nobel Prize for showing Pathways of autophagy in yeast just single cell and people have somehow inferred that autoag works in humans in a similar manner and be are multicellular right you can't just turn it on and turn it off it's Auto regulated basically so whenever your body hits the MK pathway and again both the pathways are active simultaneously you have the mtor pathway you have the ampk and the regulation
• 186:00 - 186:30 happens depending on states of energy availability so if you are wellfed if you have enough amount of circulating protein your body will hit the mtor pathway if you have done enough exercise right it will promote growth and cell proliferation mitosis if you don't have sufficient energy sure please then your body will choose the mpk pathway where it will undergo autophagy so periods of not eating will promote autophagy periods of eating will promote mtor extreme of both the phases will
• 186:30 - 187:00 disrupt this balance so you should ideally regulate between periods of eating and periods of not eating and that's basically built into the human physiology we feel hungry once we eat the food we are satisfied if our body wanted extreme amounts of photophy we'll have built-in mechanism where we'll not feel hungry for days or we'll keep eating for days that's not our body's physiology it balances both out so Nel regenerative medicine we didn't talk about that okay right big area um explain regenerative
• 187:00 - 187:30 medicine regenerative medicine is I mean I guess the the most popular thing in regenerative medicine stem cells right there is data there uh very tough to use it mhm uh implementation is is very difficult because um uh you know you you can you have two problems one uh there's not enough again uh
• 187:30 - 188:00 good validated clinical trials on what which type of targeted cells stem cell therapy works right I think the most data is on um um Step therapy for joints and knees I think there is some reasonable amount of data for that uh and for certain um other conditions also there is data but uh India is still I don't
• 188:00 - 188:30 think from a regulatory perspective we have everything uh in place to kind of U you know uh operationalize this at a at a big scale India is a good place to experiment with not necessarily no not India Dubai Dubai Dubai Dubai so a lot of the stem cell therapies are more popular in Dubai and Cayman and mle if I could go to Dubai and get one treatment what should I get that I can't get here I would look at some uh I mean
• 188:30 - 189:00 if if there are some specific issues you have no issue just like that just like that I would do anything no is so there are certain the other forms of regenerative medicine exosomes have you heard of exosomes so exosomes there are uh you know um validated therapies for your skin that seem to work very well yeah right uh these are what your cell secrete so you just use what they anyway secreted use that and for hair I
• 189:00 - 189:30 don't know if you have tried yes that's that's probably the only thing that can work for yeah is this that PRP thing no no micro needling micro needling yeah and then followed by exosome so does PRP thing work it it it works works it helps because it's basically stimulating your hair follicles U and basically nourishing your hair roots with uh you know like plasma rich blood basically that's what PRP is I want to
• 189:30 - 190:00 ask you like fleeting thought on anything on Aging disease management aging disease prevention Therapeutics no that we discussed that entire thing right we've discussed targeting age disease reversal yeah age disease reversal um see I think uh you know what see some some of these things that you do at a broad level let's say uh you know whether it's sleep
• 190:00 - 190:30 or better nutrition I think some of these are reversal at a broad level right so you I think these are more uh you know system level things that you do to I I I think reversing just through through one specific intervention uh a particular disease may or may not work I think a holistic uh targeted approach on multiple Dimensions is I think what works okay fleeting
• 190:30 - 191:00 thought to our audience of WN to be entrepreneurs one idea each you have invested in a lot of Health companies one thing somebody can start should start no I think more than the one thing someone should start is maybe starting with the right expectation because they don't want to hear we need to have the right expect no no right expectations as in in a sense you can't build a billion dollar business in this no no I'm not saying billion dollar make money
• 191:00 - 191:30 business yeah make money I think I think the food I I'm completely like like like we said before uh I'm completely sold to the idea that someone's going to put F on the table that's that cannot be questioned like right from your Staples to vegetables to fruits to everything right as in to say that this is the food you're eating this is the quality from where it was soured
• 191:30 - 192:00 this is all the pesticides that's there I mean and and provide it clean and fresh and I I'm I'm sold to the idea uh and potentially looking to invest in as many of them as possible rant I think medicine is going to change at a very transformative level with all the things that we spoke about right so
• 192:00 - 192:30 delivering it in a new way uh is is the big opportunity it's not going to be done by the current uh medical establishment because they are doing well in what they're doing they're very profitable in what they're doing and they don't have a reason to change change and if this is going to be disrupted it's going to be disrupted by a new set of companies it's not just biop there'll be many such companies uh who will find uh you know this whole idea of uh
• 192:30 - 193:00 more systemic datadriven uh leveraging uh AI leveraging a more comprehensive uh approach um I think you'll see a new generation of clinics hospitals uh uh you know and and I think people will see because the idea of preventive care was always there so you'll you'll ask me you know what is so great preventive care everybody's talking about but I think there was no data so just to tell people okay eat
• 193:00 - 193:30 well sleep well just telling them more of that is not going to help can you tell them how can you take action and how can you be specific so that you see change in a reasonable amount of time and you're able to manage them longitudinally and not in an episodic manner right so there so so there is a business model change there's uh an approach change uh so there's like a
• 193:30 - 194:00 huge opportunity and I think this is like a 25 year opportunity that I see seems mental health I mean a lot of people are doing I don't think I mean there is a good place where you you know where people understand what other people are going through and I think yeah that's something help is needed there I agree
• 194:00 - 194:30 some people on this table also need so so in future if India has to make any strides in the medical realm if it wants to become relevant in healthcare AI it will need its own data sets today India does not have quality data sets and uh somebody will have to figure out either they create their own personalized Labs work with variable companies like us or work with hospitals
• 194:30 - 195:00 but we'll need trainable data sets without trainable data sets our health AI is going to be as good as nothing like we'll rely on Western data sets which don't mean nothing because like Prashant was mentioning the universal BMI doesn't work on Indian population we have so many Indians who are like bmis 25 but they have a tummy so higher viseral fat right so doesn't work you need lot of data sets Okay I think that's it thank you guys for doing this awesome thanks cheers
• 195:00 - 195:30 by thanks oh my God this thing was right here [Music] okay hi hi Brian I'm s nice to meet you I guess so you all have covered about um you know longivity with when it comes to men uh um so my question is how
• 195:30 - 196:00 does uh it Factor when it comes to women from women's perspective how um longevity um you know uh factors in when it is regarding women's reproductive Health MH or also the bigger question is how does it factor in menopause yeah do you have any insights on that yeah um what do you do for your health today
• 196:00 - 196:30 like let's start with your sleep how is your sleep my sleep yeah um I would say it's great great okay cool do you measure it I I do yeah yeah great so like what's on a average night how many hours of sleep do you get between 8 to 9: great and of deep and of REM REM sleep I think around 2 hours yeah and
• 196:30 - 197:00 deep deep is an hour maybe okay and then do you get up do you find yourself waking up at night I I do yeah once twice three times um two three times yeah uh is just because you're thinking about things or uh no it's just just yeah I just wake up um yeah okay you're doing pretty well in sleep how about diet how are you doing on nutrition pretty good I would say yeah
• 197:00 - 197:30 okay what what does your diet consist of mostly uh 1,500 calories protein uhhuh um healthy carobs healthy fats yeah okay so uh do you eat much like a junk food or no process food okay so good what about exercise I get about an hour yeah every day yeah so what do you do for exercise um weight training there is
• 197:30 - 198:00 Yoga cardio yeah combination of yeah great so you're doing really well in the the primary areas of sleep that exercise good job that's very rare uh have you done any testing like have you have you had blood draws or have you done MRIs or blood draws yes um a lot of scans but no MRIs okay and the blood draws when was your most recent blood draw sorry when was your most recent blood draw um two
• 198:00 - 198:30 weeks back okay great so you're like an ideal yeah this is amazing okay and and did you discover anything that was an anomaly anything that was off uh at present um thyroid levels I would say uh iine levels yeah yeah okay they're not right um and lipid profile is not great either so some cholesterol markers were a little off yes okay so I'm thinking maybe it's the vacation food that I had okay okay so like it
• 198:30 - 199:00 wasn't the whole story in the DI okay there's more going on yeah okay yeah this is this is usually how it goes right like so what happened on this vacation well um good food good wine yeah yeah yeah what kind of what kind of food uh what kind of food I don't know whatever Michelin star restaurants cook yeah yeah yeah yeah and and the night you had that food and you had the alcohol how was your sleep you know what sleep was still good
• 199:00 - 199:30 yeah I I didn't wake up the way I usually do uhhuh yeah do you know what the RAM and deep for no I I didn't really measure them okay and so uh did you exercise the next day yes every day okay good cool so yeah you're doing really well on the core three things and also testing and so you're checking the Box on the most important things and you haven't found any major deficiencies is that right yeah so as a female you're doing all the right Basics that's a
• 199:30 - 200:00 really great thing uh and that's uncommon for a lot of people have you tested yourself for contaminants like heavy metals or microplastics no so this is one area where you could potentially improve so a recent study show that women with high levels of BPA uh produced uh substantially fewer eggs and ovulation that uh contaminants uh reduces the body's uh
• 200:00 - 200:30 production of eggs and so even when you're doing all the right things with sleep and diet exercise there are things in the outside world that can come in uh like contaminants in food contaminants in the air that can negatively affect your fertility negatively affect eggs that are produced negatively affect your hormones and so there is some opportunity on the measurement side of things that you can try to identify what like there's a we have a new microplastics test which we've put out you prick your finger you get a a
• 200:30 - 201:00 measurement and that those levels help inform like what is your level of contamination so like the simple thing is like in these Foods the question would be uh what is the level of microplastics in the food they're they're there we just don't know how much uh so we test it and so so a lot of times I do this this Q&A with you because a lot of times when you talk about female health and we talk about fertility and menopause um most people want there to be a silver bullet like you know do this don't do that it's
• 201:00 - 201:30 oftentimes not as clean as that usually it's more comp more nuanced and complex yeah and so I'd say the first thing that's relevant for for you as a female is to continue to the basics sleep diet exercise which you're doing really well basic testing and you can now consider to to do more advanced testing uh to find potential areas of improvement that'd be like number one how do you feel about that she wants me to ask a
• 201:30 - 202:00 question okay all right well if men live forever and women can't give birth Beyond 35 what happens to the societal structure yeah so um I think that um I'm personally very excited about the future of health and
• 202:00 - 202:30 uh specifically I think that AI May produce in the next five years you know decades if not a century worth of progress and in those discoveries maybe something about a woman's uh time period of fertility I think you know women produce a certain number of a over a certain duration of time and that fertility window closes and so uh it's not something that we've solved today but I don't think it's out of the realm
• 202:30 - 203:00 a possibility that we could either extend that or somehow modify that but I think it's one of the coolest areas of research of Health and Wellness is because I agree with you it's a uh it's a challenging circumstance that women have this very small window of time and once a classes is gone men you know have a much longer exactly so I agree with you uh so I think it's a really great area of interest um and so I guess I was asking you these questions because um as a female what you're trying to do
• 203:00 - 203:30 is you're trying to slow your speed of Aging down as much as possible like you you want your body to be fertile as long as possible right and then you as and then as you go into menopause you want your body to be in the optimal conditions and so that's why I focus on the basic because often times people think there's so many differences between men and women but actually there's so many more things we have in common that we all benefit from sleep we all benefit from exercise we all benefit from nutrition and then you can dial in specifics like how are your hormone
• 203:30 - 204:00 levels you know like what are the deficiencies you're in what are your your contaminants so it's the same process as men of you're just simply saying what is an ideal level for a given thing how do you measure it and then how do you fix it and so I like to think about that question because yeah because it really makes it concrete right and there's um there's there's a lot of known science uh like how to maintain optimal um levels for women uh but menopause is just like that's just a
• 204:00 - 204:30 very complicated challenging thing just like the fertility window so sadly there's not a clean answer there it's just um we have to work on it one last question yes you know I I heard you mentioned that sexual activity overall has gone down how you know to reach that optimal sexual yeah yeah for all the ages yeah so um did you know that every night when you sleep you go through several arousal
• 204:30 - 205:00 Cycles where yep no I didn't so men when men sleep uh they'll typically have between three and five erections and each each erection lasts you know for a certain duration of time and so for example an average 18-year-old would have nighttime erections on the order of two hours and 30 minutes like thereabouts oh okay yeah and so this
• 205:00 - 205:30 that that marker is is a representation of of bi of sexual physiological and uh and cardiovascular function now women have the same arousal cycles of men so the clitoris engorges in the same way the penis does through these various Cycles through sleep patterns and just like men wake up with morning boners women wake up with morning Woods I'm sorry the morning bean and so it's the same cycle and so again the similarity between men and women and
• 205:30 - 206:00 so this is why um your sleep and diet and exercise are so important is because when you're going through arousal Cycles your sexual function is robust and so that would give you a good starting point to to be potentially seually active and to want to engage in sexual intercourse and so it comes back to the basics every time of like you do the things that build a a foundation of health and then you jump to measurement to say are there any deficiencies you can address and then you try to fix
• 206:00 - 206:30 those and then you can say can I optimize further so for example I'll give you one optimization okay so um I I started I measured my nighttime erections there's a little device you put on the penis and it measures the the engorgement of the penis and the number of times and the strength of it and so my Baseline measurement was 2 hours and 12 minutes and then I did two therapies to increase my nighttime erections uh one was Focus shock wave therapy so it uses
• 206:30 - 207:00 acoustic waves it feels like an electric shock but you're basically shocking the penis with acoustic waves little painful okay but there's evidence to show it works uh people also use it for vag Rejuvenation so in the same way where this Focus shock wave therapy can be used to take someone who has Ed a reti dysfunction and bring them back to normal it can also be used like someone like myself who had a proper sexual
• 207:00 - 207:30 function and enhance it and so if you're trying to say you have the basic solv and now you want to enhance your sexual function there are therapies for example like Focus shock wave therapy which can enhance the vagina and its overall health so once you get into the world of this literature there's this whole world of things you could trial of uh things you can do to actually boost your social function that are based on scientific evidence ah perfect thank you what do you think about that great what do you well um go ahead yeah
• 207:30 - 208:00 maybe we all are going to try that I think yeah it might be an interesting experience I mean why not yeah uh so I guess it's uh sleep time for you yeah so let me ask you what what are you walking away from this conversation what did you hear in this conversation longevity is a is a choice I guess I mean if I'm ready to give up on certain things uh be disciplined about certain things then it's for those
• 208:00 - 208:30 people but if you're not ready to give up on certain things then maybe it's not so I mean I I don't think it's for everyone yeah even if we had a choice to you know body to be in it but yeah cool and I would say um I would say the summary for for yourself and others is um the basics of Health and Wellness sleep diet and exercise have the biggest
• 208:30 - 209:00 gains of all things the next biggest gain is finding deficiencies through blood tests Imaging you know contaminants uh and then the third thing is trying to do things to enhance but it I want to like try to change the frame of the conversation because I know that women they think about fertility specifically and they think about menopause for example these two buckets but oftentimes it that really misses the point that uh they get
• 209:00 - 209:30 so much attention that we then forget these Basics and we forget the value of measurement and so that's why I like the the um the similarities that males and females have is so much of the same process the same Basics the same measurement the same evidence and if we all go through that process like we're going to hopefully come up with good outcomes but hopefully that's helpful for everybody whereas um instead of specific recommendations for given things we just go through the same scientific process and we can produce healthy outcomes where you don't really
• 209:30 - 210:00 need to choose longevity you're just choosing Health like you're choosing uh happiness you're choosing vibrancy you're choosing good relationships you're choosing like to be a certain way thank you so much yeah and is there any other confessions like if so [Music]