Episode #91 – Jeff Watts – Teaching the Next Generation of Artists!

Summary

In this engaging episode of The Creative Endeavor Podcast, Andrew Tischler engages in a thoughtful conversation with renowned artist and educator Jeff Watts. Currently based in the United States, Jeff has had a significant impact on the art world by training countless professional artists at Watts Atelier. Throughout the podcast, Jeff shares his insights into the ebbs and flows of artistic mastery, the rigorous training at Watts Atelier, and the personal sacrifices he’s made for art education. Jeff discusses the importance of dedication, work ethic, the evolving nature of mastery, and the intricate balance between personal art practice and teaching. Additionally, they touch upon the inevitable influence of AI in art and the broader implications for artists and society.

Highlights

• Jeff Watts emphasizes that mastery in art, much like athletics, experiences ebbs and flows. 🏄‍♂️
• Watts Atelier's unique training involves rigorous hands-on practice, fostering artistic and teaching mastery. 🎨
• Jeff Watts has sacrificed personal artistic pursuits to nurture future artists, fulfilling his mission with passion. 🌟
• AI's emergence in the art world is inevitable, with creative adaptability being key to thriving. 🔄
• Jeff encourages a balance between intuition and intellect in artistic practice, creating a harmonious dance of energies. 🎭

Key Takeaways

• Mastery ebbs and flows just like an athlete's peak performance. 🏆
• Jeff Watts' Watts Atelier is famed for producing top-notch artists through rigorous training. 🖌️
• Art education at Watts Atelier focuses on the balance of artistic technique and teaching. 📚
• Dedication to art often involves significant personal sacrifices. 🧗‍♂️
• Watts believes in embracing new technology like AI as a tool, not a threat. 🤖

Overview

In episode #91 of The Creative Endeavor Podcast, host Andrew Tischler sits down with Jeff Watts, a distinguished artist and the driving force behind Watts Atelier. They dive deep into the nuances of achieving and maintaining mastery in the arts. Jeff draws parallels between the fleeting nature of artistic mastery and an athlete’s peak performance, emphasizing that both require relentless dedication and resilience.

Known for its strict and thorough training programs, Watts Atelier continues to influence the art world by shaping the next generation of exceptional artists. Jeff’s teaching philosophy involves a blend of rigorous training and creative exploration, highlighting the importance of balancing technique with personal expression. He discusses the personal sacrifices involved in dedicating one's life to teaching art, a commitment that Jeff has embraced wholeheartedly.

The conversation also explores the role of technology in art, particularly AI. Jeff views AI not as a replacement but as an innovative tool that can assist in idea generation and creative processes. By fostering adaptability and emphasizing a balance of intuition and intellect, Watts encourages artists to embrace the future of art while staying anchored in foundational skills.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: [Music] for me Mastery is a fleeting concept that you can obtain Mastery at times. The chapter discusses the concept of mastery in music, suggesting it's a fleeting condition that can be achieved at certain times.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Talking about the fleeting concept of Mastery and the challenges and benefits it offers. The chapter discusses the concept of Mastery, highlighting its transient nature. Mastery is described as a level of skill or knowledge that can fluctuate over time. Achieving Mastery in multiple fields requires continuous effort and adaptation, similarly to an athlete’s journey of getting in and out of shape. The narrative emphasizes that while reaching true Mastery is challenging, it offers significant rewards and benefits.
• 01:00 - 01:30: Introduction to the creative Endeavor podcast and about Jeff Watts. Introduction to the Creative Endeavor podcast, hosted by Andrew Tischler, focusing on inspiring stories from creative professionals worldwide through genuine conversations with artists.
• 01:30 - 02:00: Discussing the impact of Jeff Watts as an artist and educator. The chapter highlights the significant impact of Jeff Watts as both an artist and an educator. It argues that Watts's influence is profound due to his role in training a multitude of other trainers and professional artists through his Watts Atelier. An example given is Pavl Soov, a talented individual who began at Watts Atelier and is now a successful professional artist based in Canada.
• 02:00 - 02:30: Exploring the Atelier approach and its history in art education. The chapter titled 'Exploring the Atelier approach and its history in art education' discusses the significant impact of the Atelier approach on art education, particularly focusing on portraiture. The conversation highlights notable artists, including Stan Preno, who have emerged from this approach and have made a considerable impact, especially on platforms like YouTube. The chapter gives a glimpse into the workings of notable ateliers like Watts Atelier, suggesting an influential culture or methodology that contributes to the success of its artists. Insights from individuals like Jeff provide a deeper understanding of this educational style.
• 02:30 - 03:00: Jeff Watts's dedication to the craft and teaching others. This chapter delves into Jeff Watts's dedication to his craft and his commitment to teaching others. It explores his philosophy towards art, particularly painting and drawing, emphasizing that mastery requires time and sacrifice. Jeff serves as an embodiment of this belief, having made numerous sacrifices to enhance his skills. The chapter highlights the importance of dedicating sufficient time to achieve proficiency in art.
• 03:00 - 03:30: Podcast sponsorship and what Tish Academy offers. In this chapter titled 'Podcast sponsorship and what Tish Academy offers,' the conversation revolves around the dedication of an artist named Jeff. The speaker shares their admiration for Jeff's commitment not only to mastering his craft but also to helping others learn painting. They emphasize the inspiring nature of Jeff's journey and encourage listeners to follow him on Instagram under the handle 'Jeffrey Watts art' or visit his website 'www.wats.com'.
• 03:30 - 04:00: Discussion about learning art through video content and the visual learning experience. The chapter discusses the contemporary approach to learning art through video content, emphasizing the benefits of visual learning. It references a YouTube channel that provides inspiring content on this topic. Additionally, the narrator mentions sponsoring the episode with an advertisement for Tish Academy, although specific details about the academy are not provided in the transcript. The chapter suggests checking the show notes for relevant links to further explore the discussed resources.
• 04:00 - 04:30: Jeff Watts's perspective on the philosophy of art education and various methods of training artists. In this chapter, the listener gains insight into Jeff Watts's outlook on art education philosophy and different artist training methods. The podcast episode is available in audio but is complemented by a video version that visually enhances the discussion. Jeff shares a compelling story about his meeting with Frank fretta, enriching the conversation with personal anecdotes and educational content.
• 04:30 - 05:00: Exploring the relevance of discipline, learning and adaptability in art. The chapter discusses the integration of visuals and storytelling in a podcast series hosted by Frank Fretta.
• 05:00 - 05:30: Understanding the French Atelier system and its impact on modern learning. The chapter explores the French Atelier system and its influence on contemporary education methods, particularly in art. Emphasis is placed on traditional teaching techniques that revolve around painting and drawing demonstrations. With a nod towards career advancement, the discussion invites those aspiring to become professional artists to consider engaging with art business courses like the Creator activator course. These offerings are designed to provide inspiration and practical skills, heralding a successful start to the year 2025 for artists looking to elevate their professional journey.
• 05:30 - 06:00: Comparison between the Atelier method and various art learning styles. Introduction to Jeff Watts and his association with the creative endeavor.
• 06:00 - 06:30: Details about the Riley method and its significance in modern teaching. The discussion revolves around the significance of the Riley method in modern teaching. The episode features a famous artist known for their stunning paintings and portrait work, who previously hosted Friday Night Live sessions showcasing their artwork. The conversation highlights their reputation and artistic contributions.
• 06:30 - 07:00: Discussions on mastering the art form and breadth of skills necessary. The chapter discusses the importance of maintaining an online presence and blending traditional and modern media practices. The speaker reflects on past approaches where long-format content was the norm, lasting up to three hours, and contrasts it with current trends that favor shorter, more frequent content. Despite this shift, there seems to be a consensus on reviving some of the in-depth content, as it's perceived to cater to the contemporary audience's preferences better than before. The chapter underscores the balancing act between embracing new digital trends while respecting the depth of traditional media content.
• 07:00 - 07:30: Importance of flexibility and pushing through challenges in art. The chapter emphasizes the significance of flexibility and overcoming challenges in the art world. It highlights some of the exceptional artists who have graduated from the mentioned atelier, including well-known figures like Pavl Soov and Stan Preno. The speaker expresses admiration and a desire to have studied under the atelier's guidance, reflecting on the impact and inspiration it provides to emerging artists.
• 07:30 - 08:00: Mindset, tenacity and psychological aspects of art learning. The chapter delves into the mindset, tenacity, and psychological facets essential for learning art. It features a discussion on the speaker's approach to art education and their passion and dedication to the field, which has sustained them over time. The speaker's journey began in athletics, nurtured by their background in arts and the influence of their father, who was a professor.
• 08:00 - 08:30: Maintaining Integrity and owning one's role in achieving Mastery. The chapter discusses the importance of maintaining integrity and owning one's role in achieving mastery. The speaker reflects on their upbringing surrounded by high-level illustrators, which ingrained a strong foundation in the arts. However, it was the discipline from athletics that played a crucial role in furthering their ability to build and sustain an atelier. The chapter highlights how discipline, exposure, and integrity are essential components in fostering an environment where one's craft can thrive and prosper.
• 08:30 - 09:00: Exploring the psychology of learning and dealing with adverse situations. The chapter discusses the challenges of promoting and spreading information about new ventures before the internet era. It highlights the difficulties faced in getting the word out and reaching a wider audience, emphasizing the slow and organic growth that had to occur through word of mouth and physical flyers. The narrative illustrates how achieving recognition and gaining students or followers back then was a much more gradual and challenging process compared to the ease of communication and information dissemination today.
• 09:00 - 09:30: Navigating relationships and personal reflections balancing life and passion. The chapter discusses pursuing personal passions and lifelong learning, emphasizing the challenges of finding suitable learning environments in the past. It highlights the growth of online platforms and communities, which have made it easier to access diverse learning opportunities and connect with like-minded individuals. The advent of these online resources is noted as a significant advancement compared to earlier times when such networks were less accessible.
• 09:30 - 10:00: Insights into the balance between professional dedication and personal sacrifice. The chapter explores the intricate balance between maintaining professional dedication and personal sacrifice. It reflects on the early days of art education and the passion for lifelong learning. The narrative likens this commitment to a professional athlete who, knowing they will spend much time training, decides to own the gym. This metaphor underscores the idea of merging personal passion with professional endeavors to create a sustainable career path.
• 10:00 - 10:30: Examining sacrifice and dedication in reaching professional expertise. This chapter delves into the themes of sacrifice and dedication essential for achieving professional expertise. The individual discusses their consistent and almost religious dedication to training, which aligns with their personal traits and professional goals. This alignment between personal dedication and professional aspiration contributes to their journey towards becoming an elite technician and craftsman. Their efforts and personality traits synergize to seamlessly guide them on their path to expertise.
• 10:30 - 11:00: Understanding depth of knowledge in art and its expression. The chapter discusses the challenges and rewards of building a career in art before the advent of the internet and social media. The speaker reflects on giving talks and teaching about the art business, highlighting the incredulity of audiences who cannot imagine a time without digital connectivity.
• 11:00 - 11:30: Discussion on experience and perpetual learning within art. The chapter delves into the continuous learning and accumulation of experiences within the field of art. It highlights how with age and maturity, individuals gain a deeper understanding of life and art. The narrative acknowledges the skillfulness of younger generations who are adept at 'hacking' or innovatively approaching art, contrasting it with the value found in older, more traditional methods. Teaching, in this context, emerges as a significant theme, emphasizing how the experience gathered over time equips one to guide others. The chapter celebrates this blend of youthful innovation and seasoned wisdom, portraying it as an integral part of the artistic journey.
• 11:30 - 12:00: Navigating ever-present learning within art and ongoing development. This chapter explores the traditional and timeless approach to learning and development within the art field. It emphasizes the importance of immersive, hands-on experience and building a personal repository of knowledge and skills through practice. The narrative likens the learning process to a one-on-one dialogue with the medium—be it a canvas, paper, or pencil—highlighting the irreplaceable value of direct experience and manual dexterity in art creation. Despite technological advancements, the text exalts the 'old-fashioned' method of learning as a cherished and effective approach, underscoring its enduring significance in fostering artistic growth.
• 12:00 - 12:30: Personal life and maintaining balance in professional pursuit of art. In this section, the focus is on the observation of younger generations, specifically Generation Z and Generation Alpha, in the context of an art school. Contrary to expectations, these young students are showing a strong interest in traditional art methods rather than being solely reliant on technology. They are aware of the downsides of technology, having grown up with it, and some are choosing to embrace older, traditional artistic techniques. This approach is particularly appealing to those who feel a calling to the arts, suggesting a balance between personal life and professional pursuits.
• 12:30 - 13:00: Life experiences impacting art and consideration of wider impacts. The chapter examines the concept of an 'atelier,' a French term for a workshop or studio, emphasizing its origins and significance particularly during the late 1800s before the Impressionist movement. It delves into what constitutes a good atelier, hinting at its impact on the model or system being discussed. The chapter touches on how life experiences shape art and the broader implications of these influences.
• 13:00 - 13:30: The influence of artists on the broader community and collective learnings. This chapter discusses the influence of artists on the broader community, particularly focusing on how they began to distance themselves from traditional academic structures. This shift was heavily influenced by the French Revolution, which dismantled the existing hierarchical systems. As a result, new government-run systems were introduced, comparable to modern education systems with a four-year structure aimed at producing experts.
• 13:30 - 14:00: How artists' community and interaction fuel learning and growth. The chapter discusses the significance of the artists' community and their interactions as a source of learning and growth. It highlights the traditional Atelier method, particularly the French system, where budding artists work under masters for an indefinite period, from 10 to 20 years or more, until they themselves become masters. The relationship is akin to mentorship, where experienced artists help guide and shape the skills of the next generation, emphasizing the importance of hands-on learning and the continuity of artistic craftmanship. The mention of renowned atelies like those of Bouguereau and Jerome exemplify the legacy of this system.
• 14:00 - 14:30: Sacrifices and influences shaping an artist's career and life. The chapter explores how sacrifices and influences shape an artist's career and life. It touches upon the movement of artistic techniques and education across different regions and times, particularly highlighting the early 1900s. Americans who studied abroad brought back knowledge to enrich the United States' artistic learning systems. Although contemporary systems in the U.S. have their challenges, they are still noteworthy. Comparisons are drawn with Russia and China, both of which maintain robust traditions in artistic training. The Riley method is mentioned as part of the training tradition embraced by certain ateliers.
• 14:30 - 15:00: Analyzing the current trajectory and the evolution of learning art. This chapter discusses the challenges faced by artists in their education journey. It highlights the fact that art learning environments are typically small and devoid of the grandiose scale of traditional academic institutions that charge exorbitant fees. Despite the steep costs, many art programs do not deliver substantial education because they do not emphasize the importance of repetitive practice, which is essential for mastering the art. Additionally, gaining tutelage under exceptionally gifted artists who are willing to impart their knowledge is rare, adding another layer of difficulty for aspiring artists to excel in their field. Thus, the scarcity of these conducive learning conditions hampers the growth and success of artists.
• 15:00 - 15:30: Reflecting on the student-teacher dynamic within art learning. The chapter discusses the importance of maintaining the integrity and effectiveness of the student-teacher dynamic in art education. It highlights the necessity of dedicated individuals who are willing to invest their time and creative energy to sustain and evolve teaching methods like the Riley method. The Riley method, established by Frank Riley and passed down through generations, exemplifies a commitment to teaching with integrity and adhering to the mission statements of educational institutions. The narrative underscores the role of teaching lineage and the responsibility to perpetuate high standards in art learning.
• 15:30 - 16:00: The spirits of mentorship and the importance of impacting future artists. The chapter discusses the profound impact of mentorship, particularly in the field of art. The narrator recounts an experience at the age of 18, during a time before the internet, which made accessing resources like art training more challenging. Despite the difficulty, this experience became pivotal for the narrator. The mentor's teaching style is compared metaphorically to an 'art GPS' system, guiding students in understanding the human form and more. This method of teaching is valued for its poetic and insightful approach.
• 16:00 - 16:30: Mastery, challenges faced by artists and continued learning. The chapter focuses on the pursuit of mastery in artistic methods, particularly highlighting the Riley method. It discusses the intricate nature of the method, emphasizing its depth and complexity. The speaker reflects on their 35-year experience teaching the Riley method, noting how it continually reveals new layers of knowledge and understanding. The chapter showcases the challenge artists face in consistently learning and improving their skills, underscoring a lifelong journey of education and refinement.
• 16:30 - 17:00: The nature of challenges in art pursuit and balance. The chapter discusses the differences in teaching methods for art programs, particularly focusing on the strengths and weaknesses of more structured programs versus those that offer flexibility. It covers how more structured programs tend to keep people involved and are easier to manage due to their rigidity, while flexible programs like comparative measurement techniques (RS) allow participants to come and go, not locking them into a specific path.
• 17:00 - 17:30: Art as both passion and sacrifice with ongoing development. The chapter outlines the challenges artists face in contemporary settings, such as fast-paced work environments with tight deadlines and insufficient reference material. Artists must often rely on inventing aspects of their work, including lighting, anatomy, and scenes. The discussion highlights the difficulty of comparing or replicating work using traditional techniques like the sight-size method. Furthermore, the chapter mentions the struggle to find information on the Riley method online.
• 17:30 - 18:00: The narrative gap between artist development and public perception. This chapter discusses the gap between how artists develop their skills and the public's perception of their work. It reflects on the difficulty of conveying an artist's legacy purely through online videos, particularly when direct communication from the artist is limited. The speaker, who has been engaged in his craft for 35 years, expresses a concern about how his teachings and methods, specifically the 'Riley method,' will be preserved and perceived once he decides to retire. The narrative highlights the challenge of documenting and transmitting artistic methods to future generations.

Episode #91 – Jeff Watts – Teaching the Next Generation of Artists! Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] for me Mastery is a fleeting concept that you can obtain Mastery at times like I've been a master of quick sketch at times where I really would have gone up against anyone on the planet I was said dude I would against anybody in a 5
• 00:30 - 01:00 minute a 3 minute a 2 minute a 1 minute no problem I just knew like so well what was capable of being done in that amount of time with the amount of information but to maintain Mastery in numerous areas numerous mediums you're going to EB and flow out of you know true Mastery to partial Mastery to out of shape to back in shape just like an athlete would [Music]
• 01:00 - 01:30 welcome to the creative Endeavor podcast this is the podcast bringing you inspiring stories from creative professionals from around the world it's real conversations with real artists and I'm Andrew tishler thank you so much for joining me here in the studio today in this conversation with Jeff Watts now Jeff is an artist based in the United States but he's a real interesting one I think he might have had one of the
• 01:30 - 02:00 biggest impacts of any artist working today now I know that's a pretty bold claim but I'm making that based on the fact that he has trained so many other trainers he's put out into the world so many other professional artists who started at Watts atellier now one of them I've spoken to on the podcast you'll remember pavl soov an extraordinary Talent based in Canada now now pavl is living and working in the
• 02:00 - 02:30 UAE doing incredible things with portraiture but there's another little known artist by the name of Stan preno I'm sure you've heard of him I have too he's doing incredible things as well and he's had a massive impact on YouTube he got a start at Watts atellier as well so there's got to be something in the water right well from this conversation with Jeff it was interesting to get some insight into how things work at the
• 02:30 - 03:00 atellier and a little more about Jeff's philosophy when it comes to Art and his approach to the craft of painting and drawing you see there's no way around it if we want to master this thing and I don't know about you but that happens to be my goal every day I just want to get better and better at painting a drawing well the one thing it's going to take is time and sometimes we have to make sacrifices to give this the time that it really needs and this is one thing I admire about Jeff is what he sacrificed
• 03:00 - 03:30 to get where he is it's truly inspiring he's dedicated to the craft but he's dedicated towards helping others Master painting I got so much out of this conversation now right now if you're not following Jeff he can be found on Instagram Jeffrey Watts art and that's all one word at Jeffrey Watts art and also at ww. wats i.com
• 03:30 - 04:00 WTS I'll include those links in the show notes make sure you check those out he's also got a fantastic YouTube channel this was really inspiring now before we get into this episode of the podcast I just need to take a quick minute and tell you about this podcast sponsor Yours Truly that's right I'm sponsor in this episode and I want to tell you about Tish Academy and the why I want to tell you about Tish Academy is right now
• 04:00 - 04:30 you're just listening to the audio version of the podcast which is cool I get it you know it's interesting we try to do a good job with the production of the podcast hopefully it's getting a little better but there's a full video version where you can see Jeff in his Studio you can see me and mine and my editor is cutting in here images as we're talking about different artists it's actually a visual feast and really informative and quite educational as well you there's a great story in here about Frank fretta that I just loved about how Jeff met Frank fretta yes
• 04:30 - 05:00 Frank fretta In the Flesh that was a pretty funny cool story and so we're cutting in visuals as we're talking about things and uncovering things and we do that for every episode of the podcast so if that sounds like you and you want to check that out then please visit tish. Academy TI c. Academy I'll include the link in the show notes but that's not all that is on the academy there's over 300 hours of highquality streamable tutorials and
• 05:00 - 05:30 demonstrations all on painting and drawing and so if you want to go pro with your art in 2025 check that out but check out the Creator activator course which is all about art business I imagine if you're listening to something like this you probably want to push things a little bit further with your art business check that out seven modules sitting there right now on the Creator activator library and that's guaranteed to give you some inspiration and get 2025 off to a great start for you okay thank you so much for hearing me out and checking out Tish Academy I'm
• 05:30 - 06:00 going to get out of the way let Jeff Watts take over here he is this is Jeff watts and the creative endeavor [Music] [Music] Jeff Watts welcome to the creative
• 06:00 - 06:30 Endeavor podcast pleasure to have you here nice nice to be here um you know you are famous and for for the the whats atello but you're also an incredible artist um stunning paintings and drawings portrait work my goodness I've been following along for so many years uh watching some of your I think you used used to do a Friday if you don't still do it uh but I I remember watching Friday Night Live sessions a long while ago you still doing those yeah off and on you know we
• 06:30 - 07:00 we we you know we should have a probably a more intense online presence but it's always been so old school and we you know we have we have some guys now that are kind of bringing that back or wanting to bring that back so I think we'll probably start doing that more um more frequently for sure but those are yeah we we didn't I mean that short it's a lot of short content and we went so big and so deep you know when we did them it was like three hours long more so I think that audience probably is better now than it used to be but we'll probably get back to doing some of those
• 07:00 - 07:30 for sure I think they're they're on the docket to do some awesome you know it's it's incredible the some of the artists that you've uh you've had graduate from your tiller um one of them I've spoken to uh pavl soov and uh and also everybody knows Stan preno as well it's just just absolutely incredible I wish that you were around uh in Australia when I was coming up cuz I would have loved to have studied under you and and
• 07:30 - 08:00 actually learned how to do this properly um can you tell me a little bit about your approach to to Art education and what what what is what has been that thing also that has allowed you to like stick with this for so long because clearly that passion and dedication that's coming through I think there there's so many layers to that I mean I started as a really really competitive athlete so it was more Athletics that was my passion as a you know I was always good in the Arts my father was a Prof Prof I was around it all the time I
• 08:00 - 08:30 was around his studio all the time and so I was always exposed to really high level illustrators um when I was like five years old on you know so that was kind of in my blood but the discipline of Athletics and self-discipline was probably one of the More instrumental um aspects that allowed me to go further into building something like an atellier and then fostering it and and and then making sure that it it survived and and actually prospered because it's just it's such a weird thing and when I did
• 08:30 - 09:00 it there was no internet so you know when I started it I don't think people understand what that what's that's like to try to get the word out when there's no internet it's almost impossible it's almost impossible you literally have to put out a flyer at an art store and hope someone sees it and then maybe one person sees it one person tells one other person and then another person tells another person because you're doing a good job and then maybe after a year you've got five students you know I mean it's it's ludicrous but uh so I think that's how it it started very humbly
• 09:00 - 09:30 it started as a passion to continue learning on my own and I couldn't find an atellier like I went to in San Diego and um at that time again there was no internet there was no really like the atier network now is quite robust and you've got a lot of sit siiz ones you've got a lot of comparative measurement ones you've got all these different people throwing their hat in the ring and um and it's it's just made for a lot easier opportunity and then with the online platforms that you do and I do and and Stan does and stuff we're uh we're definitely bringing back those
• 09:30 - 10:00 those uh houseon days of of art education in a way in a big way so it's really cool to be kind of writing that wave but also be one of the earlier ones that was out there doing it um you know I mean I think it just uh it started as a passion to continue learning but also uh wanted it to be I knew it was going to be a lifelong path of learning so I figured kind of like a gym me you know if you're a professional athlete you might as well own the gym you know because you're going to be in it all the time so you might as well you know I
• 10:00 - 10:30 just always saw it as a very uh congruent aspect to what I needed to do and what I wanted to do and I love to train religiously um so it fit really well with my slight you know Spectrum personality and and along with with um you know my my goals of being a really really Elite uh uh technician and Craftsman so it just was one of those things that fit it just it really you know kind of fell into place really nicely
• 10:30 - 11:00 wow it was hard but it was it was worth it yeah yeah I I I must admit that that whole building things in before the internet that does make me chuckle because I I I'm talking and I'm teaching a little bit about the art business and as I'm giving these speeches and talks and things I'm talking about you know I did this before Facebook and websites and stuff and a lot of people are like what it's like you know can't even fathom it you know exactly such a part of our um you know Topography of of your life now that and
• 11:00 - 11:30 and and and the fabric of your life that it's just it's it's almost impossible to even perceive you know like oh oh when you know but I think that's one of the beautiful things too is I mean when you start to kind of get a little bit more mature a little bit older you kind of have that ability to to to to Really I'm such as a teacher because you're teaching these these young kids that are uh really good at hacking you know everything um it's just like hacking generation and there's nothing wrong with that but it's just when you go into the older more um traditional methods of
• 11:30 - 12:00 learning this stuff there really is no hack for it it's sitting down mono mono you in the canvas you and the paper you and the pencil building that dexterity building that knowledge based that visual library of remembrances that you're going to draw upon uh to create in the future and you can't you know at least for the time being you know you can't just download it into a chip you know on your brain maybe that's coming but I think you know it's just it's just uh the oldfashioned way of doing things and I've always embraced that loved it reveled in it and it's nice to see that
• 12:00 - 12:30 even at our school there is a young generation of gen zers gen Alpha you know younger ones coming in that are actually starting to really embrace it as well and actually going the opposite direction of some of the tech you know they know what the downfalls are of it uh because they grew up with it and they're they're embracing it but they're not they're not as they're not I thought they would be more beholden to it and they're really not they're actually really wanting to learn the older uh methods and the old traditional methods so that's not for everybody but it for the one that are called it really is um
• 12:30 - 13:00 a beautiful fit you know so so on on the model itself on the itell model and system itself like what what for those listening you know yeah okay we might have a general idea of what this is but what is an atellier and what what do you think makes a good one well it hearkens back to the French atier system which was around you know probably it's Heyday was the late 1800s um pre pre- impressionist movement pre
• 13:00 - 13:30 that whole uh where they started to kind of break apart from the Academia of the time and and again a lot of that had to do with the French Revolution and when they overthrew that and then with that went everything that was part of that structure and one of it was the aier system so it kind of they brought in more of a government type run system similar to the one we have in the states where you do four years and you come out and so theoretically you're supposed to be a master of what I have no idea but you um you know the four you know
• 13:30 - 14:00 four years you need 14 years you need 20 years you know um you know to be a real Craftman under the tutelage of somebody who really knows how to navigate those Waters and I think so the atier French system was a studio environment where you went in and you studied with a master until you became a master and that could be 10 years that could be 15 years that could be 20 years there was real no definitive time from what I understood but you know bugaro had an atier Jerome had an atier I mean there were a lot of beautiful atillas and
• 14:00 - 14:30 there were some Americans that studied there that brought it back to the United States um you know back during that time in the early 1900s and then we have currently probably one of the stronger um systems of learning in the United States I mean it's it's dicey a little bit but it's it's there you've got Russia that has an incredibly strong lineage of that kind of train you have China that has an incredibly strong lineage of the traditional training the Riley method that we use in our atier and atier being a very usually run by an
• 14:30 - 15:00 artist usually very small and very Scrappy they're not these big institutions of learning where you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to go to school and come out very little education in art even after you spent all that money because the system really isn't there to promote repetition repetition is the only way to Mastery and repetition under the tutelage of incredibly gifted people that are willing to share that gift through teaching which is very rare and so you have these layers of Rarity that make it difficult for an atier to truly Thrive
• 15:00 - 15:30 and also become um really mainstream and great because you have to have somebody that's willing to sacrifice a great deal of their time and their creative impetus to do that to keep it propped up to keep it working to keep it oiled well to keep the lineage of teachers that come up through it um teaching properly and teaching integr with Integrity to the the mission statement of the school so we're known for the Riley method the Riley method is Frank Riley and it's uh was passed down to me by BR fixler at the californ art institute which was a
• 15:30 - 16:00 smaller I attended in when I was about 18 years old um that was again pre- internet and it was hard to even find the place and it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me because you know he instilled in us a great respect for this style of training under this kind of almost think of it like a art GPS system for navigating the human form or any form for that matter could be lands could be whatever so you know it's this it's this beautiful poetic method that I think is probably one of the in my opinion because I've looked
• 16:00 - 16:30 far and wide for something better or something more efficient but I haven't seen many that are that well I mean it's definitely it has it has layers of complexity and a lot of people just they think they know the Riley method they think that you know they get a little taste of it oh yeah I know how to do this and that and it's just it's got so much depth I'm still unraveling and unpeeling that onion every year I teach it you know and it's been 35 years now so I just think the world of the system there are site size methods which are
• 16:30 - 17:00 more common they're a little bit I wouldn't say easier to teach that method but it's a little bit a little bit more structured to keep people involved in the program which allows it easier to run a tier that site size than say comparative measurement like RS you can come and go as you please you're not locked into the program there's no um you have to take this and then this and then this and then this it's a little bit more um flexible and pliable whereas in the other ones are a little bit more rigid and so I don't have any big qualms with sight size it's just I think in
• 17:00 - 17:30 today's environment where we all have to work it's going to be fast quick deadlines with bad reference no reference inadequate reference manipulating reference inventing reference from reference inventing lighting inventing Anatomy inventing folds inventing scenes inventing oh you name it and you can't there's no there's no compare uh there's no way to do that with site size you know that I know so so yeah it's a little different I I've had so much trouble finding information on the Riley method online um often what
• 17:30 - 18:00 I see is is a whole bunch of YouTube videos of people attempting to demonstrate it but no real stuff from from the man himself it seems pretty pretty elusive pretty hard to that was what yeah that that was my goal was to say okay I'm not gonna be teaching brick and water forever I'm 54 you know I'm I'm done this for 35 years and at some point I will not do it anymore and and what will be left will be this Legacy of me putting down the Riley method is I know it um during time H when I was able
• 18:00 - 18:30 to display what I felt was you know the best of quick sketch the best of you know you know these different systems that we had I spent my whole life learning um so I think we do really carry the torch for for the California art institute unfortunately Fred wasn't at a a time period where video was as common and he wasn't filmed as much but I know he had a lot of a a really love of our school uh and he more kind of gave it his Blessing and and and we
• 18:30 - 19:00 pretty much carry that torch and I take it with a very seriously I've never taken it um lightly and it's become almost what I'll probably be known for I mean I I've kind of put more of my energy now into the school than I have my profession because I felt like that's a better reach and it's more um in congruency with the personality type that I have whereas in just grinding it out painting every day in your studio by yourself very certain subject matter trying to you know brand yourself a certain way just never was very
• 19:00 - 19:30 appealing to me I love to learn I love different angles so I like landscape I like still life I like portrait I like invention I like mag realism I like portraiture you name it you know so for me it was always a big Think Tank and a big laboratory from which I could explore all these things myself while teaching others so it was a win-win for everybody I was getting better they were getting better I was teaching from a level of wanting to get better so I wasn't phoning it in I wasn't just showing up and talking shop and sicking coffee and talking Theory I'm in there
• 19:30 - 20:00 painting for them painting on their paintings painting with them fixing their paintings every day every class everything was done handson with no um yeah so it's it's just a hard way to teach but a very honest way to teach and the real way to teach in my opinion it's the way you get people like Stan it's the way you get people like pavl it's the way you get people like Eric Gest and Lucas graciano and all those they all came out of a person sitting with them and showing them how to sharpen the pencil showing them how showing them how
• 20:00 - 20:30 to lay in a head showing them how to do a nice eye showing them how to fix a figure and doing it every day with them until they could do it themselves you know 10 years later or something so wow um Stan was there 13 years I think you know probably um yeah yeah so it's you know it's it's a it's a beautiful poetic way to train it's the way it used to be done back in the day and that's why you don't see bernin and Michelangelo and sergeants and soras anymore because
• 20:30 - 21:00 we're just now getting back to the kind of training that produces those kind of people that was able to and even with that you know you have you have to have an incredibly gifted person with an incredible tenacity for training that loves training and that's going to weed out three quars 99% of the people anyway even if you had all the infrastructure from which to train someone like that trying to find the people in the the diamond in the rough that could actually get to that level of you know any of those greats that we were talking about it's always going to be rare uh even in the
• 21:00 - 21:30 best of environments you know I'm just thinking about the sacrifice that you've made though you know because it sounds a little bit like and and I I don't think you look at at this in a bad way you've chosen your mission which is inspiring but you know the sacrifice you've made is like okay well my own work here is going to take a back seat it's now about these students that are coming in that are under my care I love that man I think that's like the the mission is something that you've grabbed hold of with both hands here and you're just going that's I know yeah thank you thank
• 21:30 - 22:00 you so much and it wasn't always you know again I'd be lying if I didn't say there was always you know part of you that says you know I've trained my whole life to be in the Super Bowl and now I'm just gonna coach people in the Super Bowl I mean it's kind of like you wanna I think I was able like I was in the preda West for 10 years that's an elite you know group of guys and it was awesome it was nice to be in that company of like the Morgan wesling and the me and situs and the Zs Langs and the you know Scott christensens and all these guys that I've just looked up to as kid as a kid coming up and then also became a painter along with them and
• 22:00 - 22:30 then trying to you know prop up a school that's got immense complexities to it uh because it's an inperson it's a streaming it's a online it's just you know it's a you know it's taking a toll yeah it's taking a toll and and I've made huge sacrifices for sure and it's it's some of them sting quite a bit I have to be honest but um but there're there's such a poetic again Beauty to um art in general is kind of a sacrifice device uh no matter how you slice it you
• 22:30 - 23:00 know there's going to be a huge amount of of compromise that's going to have to occur on a personal level Pro you know um to do it at at an elite level I mean it's just I don't even if you're the most gifted PE person you know on the planet it's still an amazingly complex uh combination of skill sets and things to make it actual a reality and and I'm happy to to help people do that I've always been very um honored in that and
• 23:00 - 23:30 yeah I don't you know and again it's like sometimes your your destiny picks you in a way and you don't even sometimes see it like I never saw the school as even being a school I always thought it as a training aspect of my life that it was important and yes I had tons of love for it it probably it's one of the most authentic things I've ever done and probably the reason why it's been the most successful because it really was my heart was in alignment with it but I didn't ever think that that was where I was going to be the endgame it was always a stepping stone towards going into back into this industry or back I really
• 23:30 - 24:00 you know doing but I just I don't know when you get into your 50s you get a little different perspective than your 20s and 30s and I'm glad I had the energy I did and I started the school in my 20s but uh I think I was 22 when I started it so I was just a kid 22 and you're starting your own School 35 years now 35 years in a row man it's like you if you watch the online you see me literally age on film you know it's like my God this guy started you know when when he had dark hair you know it's just funny I mean I
• 24:00 - 24:30 think for me it's really more of a labor of love it really always has been and I and I'm like the worst salesman because I'm like I just tell people how long it's going to be how hard it's GNA be how long it's GNA take and it's just terrible it's like you're gonna be there 15 years you're G taking eight classes a week and it's gonna take you for you know to make anything happen you know and it and it's kind of like the truth but I just don't sugarcoat it I never have it's been terrible Stan does a really good job of not trivializing it but making it a little bit more palatable for most people you know he just get brings it in he brings some
• 24:30 - 25:00 some uh not wouldn't say even novelty but just some some humor to it you know I've always just been really serious guy and it's funny I try to loosen up I try to lighten up but it's just not my Mo you know it's just not gonna happen fair enough well is there is there a type of is there a student that you I mean I'm sure this is happened where you you must have knocked some people back and said yeah no this is not for you don't don't go here over there well no I'm always
• 25:00 - 25:30 like telling people you know you can enjoy you know like there's that um there's a good book you know Mastery by George Leonard and he goes through talking about the different personality types and who's gonna be a master who Neville will be a master like there's dilatant and dabblers and people that just like to the the the RO they just like that enthusiasm of a new thing and then once it gets hard they just drop it and go to another thing and they just do that throughout their whole life never mastering anything and and it's kind of a dabby diletante style of of personality you know and so sometimes you'll see someone come in and they
• 25:30 - 26:00 really think they're going to be a master and they just don't display any of the the true characteristics of that and you have to be you know a little bit honest with them and just say you know it's okay to be just do it for fun or just enjoy it but don't think you're going to be a master and and then be you know have an attitude or or a bad attitude as you they don't fulfill that you really aren't even doing on the Mastery course really so you want to be honest with them but not like crush them you want to be able to say hey you know there's room for everybody it's just
• 26:00 - 26:30 artart is its own thing but you know the tier that I designed was really specifically designed to produce professional people that were going to compete at the highest level in a lot of different um areas you know could be animation could be fine art could be concepting could be whatever um but I didn't go into it saying hey let's just have this fun little Sunday painting group that we just kind of dabble around and have some fun I mean that's cool but it's not our school our school's never had that Athos so um you know people do come in that have that attitude and they're more than welcome as long as
• 26:30 - 27:00 they embrace it and aren't don't have delusions of grandeur that they're going to be something they're not and then have a bad attitude when it doesn't happen that I don't have a lot of tolerance for but um but I do encourage people like hey just come in and have fun and just own that just know that you're not going to be out you know in the elite galleries selling for a lot of money doing all that stuff it's just probably not going to happen you know but but that being said who cares you know I mean if if that's if that's your goal to come in and make a ton of money then go sell real estate go become a
• 27:00 - 27:30 hedge fund manager go do something that's just for money because art can you can make a lot of money at Art but it's the byproduct of loving it at a core level that then comes to fruition with you actually producing something that would be desirable in an industry or in for someone to collect and that would require a very sincere love of it way before it ever was monetized in any substantial manner that I could see you know that it totally makes sense how you know I've been thinking about
• 27:30 - 28:00 this so much recently and and so much of what you said right there you know reminds me of this this idea of how important mindset is I mean of course we have certain personality traits of course but I mean is there and this seems to be just something from hearing you talk now like the mindset seems to be something that's important to you can you tell when somebody comes in you know beyond just like a skill level you know is can you can you tell who are
• 28:00 - 28:30 going to be the ones that have really got what it takes are they are they just dialed in in a in a in a different way are they operating with a different script or something I think part of it is your responsibility as a good teacher to be really a psychologist in a cych you you got to be able to be very empathic you got to feel energy you've gotta feel into the energy of somebody and people they morph you know so someone might come in with a huge amount of potential but then all of a sudden they start getting really good and then they develop a very um difficult ego or a strong ego that is very difficult um
• 28:30 - 29:00 in the long run for them it will be but you know I think for me I I have a very intuitive sense for people's gifts I always have and I think that's something that um I don't know if that's an acquired thing or that's just maybe something that I I have as as part of my who I am but I definitely can sense good teachers I can sense because you know they're givers you know and they they aren't taking and they're also very giving way before they're ever asking to be so you can see their demeanor as they
• 29:00 - 29:30 interact with other students like early on they'll be very helpful they'll be like oh let me show you how to sharpen your pencil let me let me help you with this let me do this and and you'll see other ones that are just yeah get out of my way I'm here to study and yeah you suck or whatever you know they're just like there with very um grabby kind of uh energy and they just want to take take take and then go and those people never I mean again I there are artists out there like that and and there are some successful ones out there like that but many of the best artists that I've met that are at the most elite level are
• 29:30 - 30:00 the most caring compassionate giving people because they're not threatened by anybody or anything and they're they're very confident in their skill levels and that always gives an air of um not worrying about the trivial things and so I think when I look at students you know I try not to put them in a box because some have surprised me greatly with their skills and have grown into be great teachers and great artist and I didn't necessarily Peg them as that when they walked in the door but I think for our school it takes three to five years to be good enough to even be considered
• 30:00 - 30:30 as a teacher and that's if you're going pretty full-time and then it takes another two years co- teing with some of the senior guys like myself or Eric and then seven years in you're able to maybe carry a class at the atier and so it's about 10 years before you're what I consider a decent teacher um and that's 10 years man that's just 10 years just to get to that point and then I've got Eric's 25 years in doing it um most of the teachers are 15 plus years um that I have um there are some young
• 30:30 - 31:00 guys now that are coming in to replace some of the senior guys that have finally decided to um you know Go full bore into their careers because they're going so well that they can't stay around to teach anymore even though they would loved to but they they did they did 20 years before that was the case you know and so um you know it's great to see them out just killing it I mean in all the industries they're in they're just dominating doing well I mean not in a when I say dominating it's not like a negatively competitive thing it's just sure doing like raising families buying
• 31:00 - 31:30 houses in California San Diego I mean almost impossible to do putting them kids in private school going through I mean it's like stuff that you would not think that a working artist would be able to do but all these guys are doing it and they started coming in working at Starbucks working at Trader Joe's or you know some like you know just basic nineo five schlocky b jobs that you no one wants to really do but you know um but to watch them go full circle I can't even put a value on that as far as from uh well karmically it probably is very good I think in that
• 31:30 - 32:00 terms but I also think just it makes you feel really good to see that you had a part to do with that and how much more um I don't know fulfilling that is I love to paint good paintings I love wealthy people to buy them and put them on their walls what it's great but it's not um it wasn't the I don't know it's not become the endgame for me anymore you know M it's more uh and it's not even like egotistically leaving a legacy behind because I could really care less you know I mean for me it's more I've got x amount of time on the plan what are you going to do are you going to leave it in a better state or you going
• 32:00 - 32:30 to what are you going to what's your sphere of influence and what did you do to contribute during the time that you were here and did you have fun doing it and again I need to get back to the fun doing it because I'm such an intense guy that I've lost sight of that many times in the course of being such an intense person um you know you you lose the spark that was why you did it in the first place you know what what was that reason that you learned to P so I feel like I'm going first Circle back into that now and I'm doing a lot of work on myself to try to let go of some of the
• 32:30 - 33:00 training that I've got actually which sounds funny but just trying to uh find my way back to the spark of passion and the love of The Craft uh that got me into it in the first place because you know like I said there were some very big sacrifices that that came out of that kind of um driven personality type that can excel at anything whether it's Sports Athletics music the Arts in general require incredible amounts of tenacity and patience and perseverance and persistence and all the things that
• 33:00 - 33:30 you would want in a fully realized person in anything so I always think of Robert onri when he says you know great art is a great life lived living at the highest level of your faculties at all times period end of story how could you not produce great art from that because it's just a byproduct of who you are and what how you're living it's just that's what you're going to produce you know but um but it's living a great life you know and living a really full life and really H God getting in there and just grabbing it and going at it but it's it's it's a grind you know it's a grind
• 33:30 - 34:00 and it and you've got to find ways to stay engaged and have fun and also still W you know get bring that Jo deiv to it the joy of life to your art you know so you're not just um grinding constantly you know you know this this word um this word Mastery gets gets thrown out a lot and you know I put my foot in it when I started this series on YouTube called sketch Endeavor which was fits and starts really and in the first video I
• 34:00 - 34:30 was talking about Mastery in this 10,000 hour rule and I think I got that from Malcolm gladwell's book and but it's it's it's a common number it's out there but um hearing you talk about this like I I'm I'm hearing that you know there there's there might be a little bit more to this I I want to ask what do you what do you think makes a master what how could you qu qualify as a master and and I just want to throw one thing in there
• 34:30 - 35:00 I don't know if I any longer have any interest in being one I used to but I I I want to master but the the further along in this down this road I get the more I realize man I am always going to be a student I'm always going to be learning you know yeah I think beginner's mind I think any of those old you know like I I found that for me Mastery is a fleeting concept that you can obtain Mastery at times like I've been a master of quick sketch times where I really would have gone up against anyone on the planet I was said
• 35:00 - 35:30 dude I will draw against anybody in a five minute a three minute a two minute a one minute no problem you know and I really felt confident that I was I just knew like so well what was capable of being done in that amount of time with the amount of information but I mean these are very little specialized Niche areas but to maintain Mastery in numerous areas numerous mediums um you're going to EB and flow out of you know true Mastery to partial Mastery to out of shape to back in shape just like an athlete would you know there's athletes that have pre peaks in their
• 35:30 - 36:00 performances and in their careers where you say yeah Lance Armstrong was the best actually he's taking a lot of drugs whatever but you'll know that their Peak areas but they they they they will up and flow through those Peaks throughout a season they'll be you know peing at certain times and then they're masterful truly at that time and then they they drop back down out of that Mastery for a while because they you can't hold it you can't I think Master is a fleeting concept to Mastery When You See It Like It's of this course of a of a career like Sergeant um there are people that were
• 36:00 - 36:30 able to maintain that Elite level but again he wasn't married he didn't have kids he didn't I mean look at the sacrifices that guy made yeah to be a true master and um there aren't many people that would number one sign up for that number two be able to even fulfill it even if they did sign up for it so I think Master it's like genius gets thrown around a lot too like Genius Bar at Apple I'm like that's a kind of a Mis you know I mean I don't know guys are pretty smart but I don't see any
• 36:30 - 37:00 Geniuses rolling around there I mean it's just people throw out these terms like you go to school and you get a master's degree in what you haven't even done anything you know you've you've you've got you know six years of schooling you've never been out in in in in the trenches you've never been in you know in the arena you know let's Le label that you know that's not a Mastery of anything you know so I think Mastery truly is is an elusive concept and if you really truly have ever even come close to master anything you know an ego standpoint that it's a very fleeting um
• 37:00 - 37:30 a very fleeting thing that you you if you're lucky enough or not lucky enough because it'd be hard work to it's so such hard work to get there but in the process of getting there you become such a unique uh in depth of knowledge about what it means to be that that I think you know it is an elite group of people but but I do think you know there are geniuses uh true Geniuses savants that are just but even them because they didn't have to really acquire it through hard work could you call them a master I mean I
• 37:30 - 38:00 suppose like bestowed Mastery on them you know but a true ma a Mastery that had to come up through very little means to Mastery would be a different personality type it would be a different type of person than someone who GRE you know was born a savant and could play mosart at three or something you know it's like okay I mean I'll give you that but I'm not giving you the work that it took to do that you know like the legitimate you know so um yeah it's a such an interesting question because I think genius and
• 38:00 - 38:30 Mastery is is such an elusive thing you know and I think you know we all possess aspects of Genius Mastery again is an acquired skill through uh Focus genius so it' be like a genius that focuses their energy in a specific area to become a master of that area so um but I think there are geniuses that are not masterful you know and I think they're you know so uh and master Masters that aren't Geniuses necessarily are you know that are just man so yeah I mean I I've seen very few or
• 38:30 - 39:00 met very few people that I would consider Masters I mean getting to meet foretta you know um you met foretta oh yeah I have a whole podcast on it that I did for YouTube that I spend a full day with him and hung out with him watch movies with him and just you know hung I mean what did you watch with Frank fetta yeah it was an unbelievable experience yeah you watch it Go on YouTube or you can put a link on it or something but it's a it's a good story a kick you're gonna kick out I'm gonna include that I'm gonna include that in the show notes
• 39:00 - 39:30 I think I was 26 or 28 at the time and man it was something else but man talking about a genius and and and uh an interesting dude yeah I mean and a master what a great Master yeah but um so i' I've been fortunate to get to meet of him in particular would be one that that I got to meet that was just quite quite interesting to get to just spend time a good amount of time with him but um but Master yeah I love thinking about it I love the idea of being on the Master's core you know like I said I've
• 39:30 - 40:00 I really believe that at times I have been masterful at things but I I I have not been able to hold it um right and I'm still at a high level but even like what you want to do is shoot for those ridiculous levels and then when you come down to normal like your normal level you're still exceptional at it so you can still make a good living you can still you know you know do that but I mean yeah the sacrifices to stay in Mastery of anything is is is great and and you can only do it in so many areas I think before blow a gasket some sort you know so I think yeah that's a that's
• 40:00 - 40:30 a tough road for to want to put someone on too because a lot of the most masterful people are so tormented you know and it's not a pleasurable thing that they are they're you know it's it's more maniacal and very driven by sometimes OCD and other Spectrum type personality types that are would allow somebody to go through the amount of pain and and and and and of of mental pain as emotional that you have to do to become a master that's right there's very few people that would want to sign up for that you know I um many many
• 40:30 - 41:00 years ago I I got some coaching from a from a guy named Dr John D martini and I remember this first meeting with him and he was one of these dudes off the secret and uh he's still going today um but I I I I've heard him say some things like not that he fully endorses a secret now it's a it's a a funny old book that one um but uh he was saying to me in this in this session that we were having together he's like he's like what do you want do and I said well you know I want to be a master and he just looked at me
• 41:00 - 41:30 Square in the eye he just said are you willing to pay the price of Mastery and I was like what you know and I I sometimes I think you know and and just from what you're saying yeah there there is a price to be paid and there is sacrifice to be made there you know I look at the amount of time that it takes to just get to that level that you're describing you know this proficient level and then there's that level Beyond this ultimately that amount of time that we're talking about you know I'm a father now and I I I think about how
• 41:30 - 42:00 much time it's I've already not been there you know been working working on my art and working on my business and running a team and keeping everything going and and you know I'm becoming more and more consciously aware of of just that that sacrifice that that needs to be made and I I I do kind of think about this I mean you described it earlier as that sting it does Sting man because I look at this and I go hm do I do I really want to be doing this you know the old saying you can't have your cake
• 42:00 - 42:30 and eat it too I mean it's really D to everything and I think again what I try to instill in the younger students if they are have those really intense bends towards you know is number one pacing oneself because y Hearts aren't so much a physical burnout that you're going to go through it's going to be a mental emotional spiritual uh burnout that you're probably into maybe a Dark Night of the Soul at some point that you'll have to work your way through but I mean burn out in physic IAL aspects of sports it's very obvious you know it's like my performance is diminishing I'm having uh
• 42:30 - 43:00 physical ailments and physical uh manifestations of the burnout and I can feel it in my body and I'm just not fast as I used to be I'm not as strong this is happening that's happening in art it's a complacency it's a um parting of oneself it becomes you become a parody of yourself in the process of uh losing sight of two growth in in in your in your in your art trajectory and that's and there's really not a lot of people that will take you on that journey I
• 43:00 - 43:30 mean people look like Rick Rubin or people like that that are motivational coaching art coaches you know that coach creatives in a way that it's always esoteric in its nature I mean you always get into philosophy and Concepts that are more deep rooted in in probably in in spiritual stuff and and and and that sort to get to that next level past absolute um technical proficient you know technical proficiency and Tech technical Mastery can be taught to
• 43:30 - 44:00 almost anybody who has the um want to do it and and a decent hand the actual magic that comes after that is it's it's so I mean that gets into such difficult territory to teach when you start talking about intuitive color or teaching color intuitively through feeling not through thinking um Thinking Color feeling color uh different completely different concepts you know like uh Monae said you know no great colorist was ever trained through Theory period end of story done know um so what
• 44:00 - 44:30 does that mean I mean so you know you've got all these theories about color and then you've got the people that can feel it and just do it and they don't need any so it's like that old saying that for those who understand um no no explanation is necessary for those who do not don't none is sufficient so those who get it get it those who don't doesn't matter you could talk until you're blew in the face is never going to get it and so it's just I'm not saying that if don't understand color intuitively don't you know hang up your brushes I'm just saying true
• 44:30 - 45:00 colorists true masterful colorists feel color they don't think color you know um so it's a different way of navigating and it's a different whether it's broken color like someone like Dean Cornwell picks up like six scoops of color and then pulls a stroke and it leaves this Mosaic of color how are you ever going to premeditate what that's going to be I mean how are you ever going to intellectually understand the the the percentages of color you just picked up randomly out of 60 different piles and then threw it down on the side of a face
• 45:00 - 45:30 and hope that it works you know and then and then what 10 decisions you do after that to riff off of that that would make it glue together and figure and and come out as as a really beautiful broken Color part that still represents really well I mean these are things that you get into that and it's almost impossible to intellectually figure that out um and I would say it definitely is so you you get into a dance between intellect and intuition intellect so you have mass masculine and feminine you have the masculine structure very structured very logical very you know
• 45:30 - 46:00 all the rules all this and then you have the free form free flowing feminine energy that's just unbridled creativity no structure out of control completely visceral and you've got to dance with those two as an artist everyone has to and you've got to learn both sides of that energetic composition of yourself everybody's got masculine feminine it has nothing to do with male and female uh always think oh you know when you throw that out there but it's it's this
• 46:00 - 46:30 this dance between intuition and and and thinking you know and and and and the thinking mind and that's the dance that I find so intriguing and so beautiful poetic and I think most artists that are really really intuitively good at a high level that's what's addictive about it is this Flow State that you're basically riffing between these energies and you're also drawing in Universal stuff you know so it's like you're almost a conduit uh from source to the canvas through your thinking through your feeling and
• 46:30 - 47:00 now you've got to direct that in a way that's almost like orchestrating an orchestra where you're playing all the music music and all the different levels and you're the conductor and you're this and you're that and then to to make that into a statement that's poetic and be I mean that's oh man it doesn't get any richer than that but it's also like you just throw out that as a concept that'll blow people's minds I mean it's just like God yeah that's not that's not a stupid person's activity
• 47:00 - 47:30 right so oh you're an artist you don't even work for a living you just paint penion I'm like wait wait yeah yeah go let me just reframe that for a second you know but but it's like most people it's not even worth trying to explain what I just said but but that's where I spend a lot of my time now it's not so much in drawing more heads drawing more eyes drawing more um Rhythm grids you know I've done that until I'm blue in the face I've got you know Stacks and stacks of the best my best drawings is like s feet tall and those are the ones I've just kept and I've thrown out 10 times that so I mean
• 47:30 - 48:00 when I die it's going to be just a demo you know it's going to be like you know how your life flashes before your eyes it's gonna be one big charcoal drawing and charcoal it's just gonna be this ridiculous you amount of you know like what did this guy do all he did is like you know um but I've had I've had a pretty Balanced Life actually because I luckily I am fairly uh natural in a certain way but I've worked as if I wasn't but I can um you know I've acquired things probably a little easier than some people but but but still work my tail off to do it so
• 48:00 - 48:30 the hindsight you know I think about all the things I love doing and where you know traveling and and and athletic Endeavors and I want to learn music and I want to learn different things so you can look at it like do you want to like take your life and myopically make it about being the best Portrait Painter that's ever lived you know all a sergeant or whatever or do you want to have a tapestry of just of of of things that you enjoy I've kind of gone more that direction as I've gotten a little older because I think I
• 48:30 - 49:00 might have been able to go that route uh that we were talking about but man get rid of the marriage get rid of this get rid of that get rid of that you know get rid of everything you know and then just get rid of the school Let It Go um let go the teaching let go all that stuff and then just go single-minded focus on that goal becoming the best Portrait Painter ever or whatever then yeah I I think I could have done some amazing things but but again at what price what cost and and I think of like you know all these guys at
• 49:00 - 49:30 the end of their lives Dean Cornwell NC wyth I mean all these great painters I love and they were very regretful of the amount of sacrifice that they made in their interpersonal lives because of it you know Rockwell terrible inter personal life you know um you know it and so I always look at my my my hero if I had to pick one is like someone who lived a life that I think would Express the artistic life that would have liked to have would be sya you know Walkin sorya you know he loved his you know
• 49:30 - 50:00 Family Man loved his wife took a penny of her with her every him with every time he traveled um made a you know had palatial uh success financially I mean ridiculous financial success fin you know everything he had the whole I could tell almost the whole package you know um and what a what you know so it's doable but man I mean there's one guy that I could point out that I'd be like yeah that's the guy that you know I mean like he nailed the whole um nailed it pretty good but I don't know yeah so
• 50:00 - 50:30 there there's a lot to unpack there for sure you know I I I this this word balance gets thrown around so much these days you got to have balance and um you know I get in these conversations with my wife about this and it's like oh you're out of balance I'm like I know but balance for who like what what what is your balance and I think everybody has a different one and I've thought this so so often as well like you know cuz I got a team here I got some young guys that are working for me now we just recently started writing down our goals
• 50:30 - 51:00 and I was trying to coach them and guide them in areas and thinking right let's just break our lives down into these different categories as I'm getting them to do this the voice in my head is going you freaking hypocrite you know you've got all these areas of your life that you are neglecting and you know it and these other areas that are expanded Way Beyond what any reasonable person would would have but again you know I I the more I artists I talk to the more I understand that this is just what it takes to be good in this this area but I
• 51:00 - 51:30 I I'm reflecting what you're saying as well about soroya but so many artists that I've looked to in the past I'm just like man if we could just sit down and have a beer with Vincent van Gogh and just say hey buddy you know why don't you relax a little bit you know you know why don't you just get a better balanced diet how about there how about stop eating so much bread and cheese and maybe you'll start just feeling better I don't know that's a mental problem so I know yeah I mean artists are a strange bunch
• 51:30 - 52:00 I mean you you've got to be a little offter to even want to go for it so I think um there's a beauty in that there's a poetry in in in being off balance in a way but in a good way you can be off balance in a bad way you could be off balance in a good way I mean I think I think that that juggling Act is never ending it's going to go through different phases and iterations as you age obviously and you're going to have to constantly reassess what's important to you where are your priorities are they straight life's going to throw you curveballs and kick
• 52:00 - 52:30 you in the soft spots more time than you could even mention and how do you move through that I mean how are you as you know as this old saying you you know how you go through the issue is the issue there's no issues it's just how you go through it I what is how do you how do you show up when you go through an issue that's the issue so it's all about framing you know what happens I mean as I'm talking to these young kids they're watching my life implode they're watching this happened and that happened and somebody dried through my building and then this happens and then you know
• 52:30 - 53:00 I mean just you could just go down the Litany of things that could derail any one of them of which could legitimately derail you and you wouldn't be it wouldn't be bad to you know I mean you would be in your in your justifying and saying yeah that derailed me and completely destroyed that part of my life or whatever but um you just have to keep pushing through it you know and I think so I think you know a lot of it like where I'm heading with my online everything I'll be doing a whole series of coaching you know like this where it's a whole coaching component you know like 100 hours of vision boarding ideal
• 53:00 - 53:30 scenes uh manifesting um slightly more esoteric aspects as well as very practical pragmatic ways to manifest rather than just you know snapping your finger and expecting you know the lambo to show up in the in the in the in the you know in the parking lot um if you want a Lambo yeah you could work towards it and figure it out for sure easily but um but it's not about that I mean it's it's just the idea of manifestation being this magical mystical thing that
• 53:30 - 54:00 requires no efforting and I think in you know there you know whether it's Esther Hicks or whether you're talking about again the secret or any of these things that are in alignment or the the 4H hour work week you're going to do I don't know 15 years of a 100 hour work week to get to your four hour work week most likely um you know chances are because I know Stan always want wanted to do that I don't think he's put it in four hours a week but you know I mean um these these misnomers with manifestation that people throw around and I think yeah you know you just have to I you want to not
• 54:00 - 54:30 strong try to Strongarm the universe into to things coming to fruition you want to try to consciously co-create with a higher power or higher energy or whatever you want to do and you have to get yourself in alignment with that on a personal level before you can actually even even even think of functioning like that or bringing those things into fruition you can't if you're out of congruency with your value system and you have constantly contradictions in your value system as you're trying to manifest something you're in for a very
• 54:30 - 55:00 rough ride in the manifestation of anything so I think um a lot of us have to learn not only art but the Art of Living the art of studying the art of relationship the art of Health the art of all these things are Arts you know they're all Arts that are moving in and out of each other but if you like I've seen artists where they just go for getting really good go for getting masterful don't take care of their body work all night um
• 55:00 - 55:30 sleep all day don't get any vitamin D don't eat and then they diet like 50 and I'm like great job excellent you know really awesome you know flow on that one you know I mean so you know you just trying to instill in everyone because when you first come in and try to learn how to draw I mean it takes everything you can just to get decent at you know anything um right yeah and so you do have to sacrifice parts of your physical uh regimen you do have to sacrifice parts of your Social regimen you do have
• 55:30 - 56:00 to um cut some things out for a while while you're while you're prioritizing but then as soon as you can get on top of one of those things you should probably start to prop up those other areas that you started to atrophy or neglect while you were off doing you know what you just you needed to do but but at the same time you've got to start looking at those parameters around your own life so that you can have a really fruitful life not just a maniacally driven miserable life and be
• 56:00 - 56:30 incredibly successful maybe financially or maybe you've got a bunch of accolades but your interpersonal life's in shambles your health is in shambles your um spiritual life is in shambles you know I mean that's not gonna that's not going to bode well you know long term so that Balancing Act is brutal on anybody it wouldn't matter who it was it doesn't matter how gifted it doesn't matter anything there's going to be areas of weakness and blind spots in your um in the way that you show up
• 56:30 - 57:00 and and those are where we have to put our energy too and those are not the fun ones you know so it's those difficult conversations you don't want to have are the ones you should be exactly the ones you should be having and whether that's with a spouse whether that's with yourself whether that's with a you know family member or a friend or another artist or whatever it's those those you know you know you need to do it but you just they're they're cringeworthy difficult things things to do but you got to lean into that energetically and
• 57:00 - 57:30 lean into it in all areas to be a very fulfilled artist again is to live a very fulfilled life and what does that mean um so I keep going back to that on requote and I keep thinking about like what do he you know what is he really who's exemplifying that who can I find that's living that truth you know that I can mirror or at least see it's possible to even do that you know or or is it always you're just fighting against you
• 57:30 - 58:00 know inevitable you know not working you know but I don't know you know so but I think that's also why getting really clear goals like you're starting to talk about writing them down having your um weekly monthly yearly 10 year fivey year 10 year 20 year goals and really scaffolding out that vision of what your life would ideally be about if you had it absolutely the way you wanted it in all shapes forms what would it feel like what would it taste like what would it smell like where would you know where would you be living what would you be wearing what would you look like what would you talk like what would you act
• 58:00 - 58:30 like all that stuff you know really giving a lot of thought as much thought as as you would to putting a painting together for God's sakes you know uh yeah yeah good stuff I heard something recently um that just resonated with me so deeply uh because what what you're describing there it's I mean it's taking all the stuff that people go through unconsciously and it's making making it conscious it's actually no look at this thing that you don't want to look at
• 58:30 - 59:00 have that conversation you don't want to have and and and like you say you know the one with yourself and the thing that I heard which is you know you're either by default or by Design choose you know so the the lack of action and the lack of of effort in any particular area you go back to to default and excuse my language but default Andrew is an [ __ ] like I I'm I'm just dirty I'm I'm floundering in all areas and so I've had to become
• 59:00 - 59:30 consciously aware of what is it that I was what I what what is it that I I wanted what was I really committed to and what did I want to see in that area you know a big one for me is you know Faith another one is family like I I I want to I want to know that that is thriving it's but it's not going to do that without some level of design you know so so just craft this thing plan it out think about it how do I want these
• 59:30 - 60:00 interactions with my wife to go you know what do I want this relationship to look like with my Creator what do I want that you know and so a big part for me because I i' I've not long been been a Christian but you know a big part of this that I'm starting to learn the more I read the Bible is that a lot of this stuff is and people don't like this because it I think people get the the icky Factor when they hear the word submit but through submit mitting to his will this is something that allows me
• 60:00 - 60:30 to submit to that design in a way that does that make sense I found an enormous amount of freedom in that um and so just wanted to throw that in the mix but I think surrender is the most powerful one of the most powerful um things one can do true surrender not surrender from an ego not surrender from but surrendering to what is the isness of it surrendering to a higher power a higher source whether you whatever way you want to direct that from the different modalities of of higher source you know
• 60:30 - 61:00 um yeah I think I think you know relinquishing the illusion of control which is a master addiction right to think that you actually have control over anything I don't I mean they say if you want to make God laugh just tell them your plans you know I mean happy to laugh about it because I mean you know it's it's it's just you need to have intentionality in the way that you live your life sure you need to be in congruency with a higher knowing and a higher source in order to uh Stave off
• 61:00 - 61:30 exact catastrophe of all levels you know um so but but at the same time you have to be flexible and pliable enough to know that your your the best laid plans are kind of a joke I mean but you do need to have them because you can't just aimlessly you could aim you could surrender to the point where you just aimlessly float around hoping that everything kind of works out and maybe that's a better solution I don't know but but I do think true surrender is a powerful place place to come from and that could be surrendering to again your faith and saying you know I I I'm
• 61:30 - 62:00 trusting that that God has a better plan for me or you know than than I and that I need to uh honor that in the in the best way that I can and let that play through me and and come through me and then you know all that kind of good stuff and and I think that's great and I know a lot of you know artists of faith that are really strong um in their convictions and and they it seems to really work extremely well for them and they they really flow naturally um um but you'll see that in all kinds of different areas with these different polarities of you know spirituality
• 62:00 - 62:30 religion this that you know and and I don't think it's really necessarily A pissing contest between them all you know it's like for sure for sure different layers of of of shades of the same thing you know and right I think Art's always been a bit of a a bit of my my church you know I've always gone to my school with the idea that it's almost like church for me you know yeah and that's where I'm gonna create as close to the Creator as possible because I'm I'm channeling aspects of source you know through me to do what I
• 62:30 - 63:00 do and to share what I share and all that I take very seriously so for me it is almost like a calling it is almost like a cross that you bear it is something that you feel so strongly about that you want to do it in the highest level you possibly can with the most um Integrity that you can you can muster but um yeah you could just oh man these are just like I said they're just little wormholes of you can go down that just are so deep and so rich it's one of the things that makes art such I think a
• 63:00 - 63:30 fun beautiful thing to spend your time on the planet doing because it is bringing into fruition Beauty in a way that the world could really use I mean whether it's reminding somebody that's lost sight of the beauty of the natural world due to the fact that they're just so overwhelmed in their Daily Grind that they forgot what a beautiful sunset looks like or what certain aspects of of that looks like so that you're reminding them gently through your work through your art through your teaching whatever
• 63:30 - 64:00 to bring them back to to what that feels like to be really truly human and to be part of this reality that is so beautiful and so and we're doing so much damage to on a regular basis because of that disconnect that's happening on so many levels but the artist is the one to bring us back you know to that connection and say hey no no no stop and look at how beautiful this can be you know and you go oh man so there's this there's a real um you know fighting the good fight there's a real when kids come
• 64:00 - 64:30 in and they're like oh you know my parents don't want me be I mean there's so many people that just think that being an artist is just a waste of time you know and it's literally laboring Humanity would perish without us without the artists without the actors the musicians the painters everything all the creatives that bring to fruition the world that everybody lives in and everything everything everybody enjoys and then yet we're going to be starved we're going to be poor only if you subscribe to that you know but I mean there are so many people that need our
• 64:30 - 65:00 skills to bring the world into fruition um whether it's cars planes everything that's designed everything that's cool all the video games movies everything that everybody entertains themselves with the theme parks the I don't know you just name it everything that everybody does with the money that they grind out in their laborous uh laboring Humanity grinds out uh would be to go do something in the Arts that is fun enjoyable enriching so I mean I just think God I've always been such a big advocate of how could you starve when that's the whole world is
• 65:00 - 65:30 built by us but you do need to be good you do need to Champion your your um who you are and what you what you are about so that the world respects that you are a builder of the world not a slave to it you know so you go out and you you're you're a builder so I think um you know teaching these young kids and teaching these principles that you you know you it's hard to make a living doing something no one can understand so when you go into abstract expressionism you start slinging paint you do all this there's nothing wrong
• 65:30 - 66:00 fundamentally with that but is that where I want to hang my hat if I want to make a good living probably not because you may there maybe one out of a million that gets to do that but but it's better if you can actually display the world as it actually appears to to regular people through Edge and value and shape and design and calligraphy and idealization form and all these you know intellectual Concepts that we need to learn intellectually in order to then piece them together and tell a story sell a product do this do that so that we can
• 66:00 - 66:30 make good money and make a good living like we deserve so that's what I've always been kind of also spearheading in the school is practicality and let's just get you to where you can survive and if there's magic in there we can then open up that dialogue down the road or you'll open it up by yourself and then you can step through that door on your own you know um but no school should take you to the magic really it can prepare the foundation for the magic to happen but the Magic's in you if you
• 66:30 - 67:00 have a magical sense of color a magical sense of design like Muka or someone or line decker or a great colorist like Monae or any number of other ones JN asaro more contemporary um those are just people that you know again you have to have that foundational component otherwise that genius or that magic can't really lay on top of anything tangible and and and as a result it's more esoteric and more it's too hard to grasp for the normal person so it probably wouldn't it
• 67:00 - 67:30 would probably fall in deaf ears or blind eyes or whatever if if it's not got a strong foundational component to it and that's just what we've hung our hat on is one of the strongest foundational schools just to make sure that people have all that then yeah a handful of people might go to that magical fretta level or some other level where you'd say oh that's really special but they at least GNA be able to make a good living they're going to go out and be able to plug themselves into you know a place like DreamWorks or Disney or Blizzard or Rockstar or any number of
• 67:30 - 68:00 ones that need a bunch of people to schlock out a bunch of ideas for him and yeah you get paid really well to do it you know so it's all good okay I I gotta ask you this and people listening are already cringing before I even ask it because they know the question that's coming um and what I how do you feel about AI Jeff like this is yeah yeah so so I mean here's the thing we have artists today artists I'm
• 68:00 - 68:30 an AI artist oh man the memes I'm loving the memes at the moment people are sending me so many cool memes about traditional artists versus AI artists there's so many good memes but um but how um how do you feel about this this turn of events here I I didn't I didn't quite see it coming quite like this and I didn't expect it to be this fast and and I said and it was only a few episodes ago that I was like I'm going to start
• 68:30 - 69:00 to worry when the Boston Dynamic robot picks up the paintbrush well it turns out we're here now so it's happened so so where are you at on this issue oh man you know I every if I had dis SKU falling every time somebody I mean I think this is a big one this is one that's going to possibly change the full Dynamic of how Society is the fabric of society actually needs to show up and and how we how we function you know I mean um you know creatives will riff easier
• 69:00 - 69:30 off of it than a surgeon or a lawyer I think those guys are on the chopping block way sooner than we are um and there's a lot of high-end careers that are going to be like I would already people would argue with me but I would take a robot with AI operating on me over a surgeon any day of the week really wow wow yeah because I mean all that dude's got to do is have a bad night uh have a hangover have gone out argument with the wife on the way to work didn't sleep well the night before coming in and now he's going to operate
• 69:30 - 70:00 on you and hit the perfect depth of cut the perfect this the perfect that good luck you know I mean a A robot's just perfect cuts every time perfect depth perfect everything can cross reference every surgery that's ever been done hypo hypothesize what shouldn't you know in a split second um I yeah a couple years fair enough for sure um you know I mean I would take it any day of the week but and then you know lawyers I mean k you can already write law probably better than most lawyers you know already and
• 70:00 - 70:30 you know and and can you know again sift through so I think when you look at like what it's going to do I don't think we even under I mean we have bigger problems to worry about I mean from a societal level then is it gonna take my painting job you know um so fair enough fair enough yeah it's coming down to like no it's just coming down to changing the whole fabric of everything we do and in that case everybody's in the everybody's going to be scampering to try to um survive or
• 70:30 - 71:00 whatever so I think it's going to be more you know in the Arts you know I do what AI does I just do it slower and clunkier I go on Pinterest I grab a bunch of images I flip them I flop them I change them I redesign them I put different lighting on them and then I call it my own and that's like everybody does that everybody's out pilfering stealing borrowing flipping flopping doing this there's nobody out there just sitting at an easel blowing out original ideas with no inspiration from another source um so AI
• 71:00 - 71:30 does it quicker more efficiently in some ways and so but I can still paint really well so it's like yeah riff an idea for me and I'll paint it better than you did you know and I'll come or paint it and I'll riff off of it and so it's just an idea generation tool for me that I would probably welcome but I wouldn't um you know execute entirely on it and I do see stuff executing now that's really good and I think people like Photo Bash that used Photoshop to paint like faux paint over a photo and pretend like they were
• 71:30 - 72:00 painting are going to get their butt handed to them on a platter with with AI for sure and they probably should I mean I mean I don't know I mean it's like when I was painting and they were photo bashing was that fair not really you know I mean they were coming in and scamping up a bunch of photos flipping around doing a little bit of digital stuff on it and then calling it a painting and then I'm s sitting there having to do a traditional version of course the movie industry that doesn't care about about how they get their imagery is going to go with the digital guy over the traditional guy because they can change things and alter things
• 72:00 - 72:30 and it's fast and it's efficient and that's what they're about so to go in that industry and think that they're actually after your betterment of you being a great artist and enjoying yourself that's never their intention Disney that's not Disney's intention that was not DreamWorks intention that's not Blizzard's intention they don't care you know um and I'm not saying that to be mean or bad I'm just saying you got to be realistic with what these people are they're business people trying to make a product and make a lot of money and they're using your skills and if you can use skills that make that faster and
• 72:30 - 73:00 more efficient why wouldn't they use that you know um do I like it no do I agree with it no is it the reality probably yes so what are we gonna do with that you know now how are we gonna riff with that how we well first of all if we can saave off this by doing now at some point it'll be like Blade Runner right it'll be like was that a replicant that is that a is that a real owl or is that a you know is that a a real be a clone is not right so they're they're wondering like hey what is this
• 73:00 - 73:30 is this a painting done by a human or was this done by a replicant you know because and you would hope that the value would be in the human versus the replicant and if we get to the point where the replicant or whatever is more valuable than the human then we're all screwed right because then there's no value in humans there's no value in human anything so why would you use something that could do it more faster better and more efficient and put more value on that I suppose that's the big you know conversation we're going to be having from an ethical standpoint but
• 73:30 - 74:00 also from a societal standpoint of what are are humans going to be P or do we just get the robots to do everything and build a society where humans can now just do whatever they want and not have to work anymore period you know yeah it's interesting you bring up uh it's interesting to bring up Blade Runner because that's I've actually talked about that very thing in the uh in the podcast before you know I do I do see that I think it's a little maybe a little bit more of a
• 74:00 - 74:30 stretch that people will look at something that was generated by humans and go yeah well this is less valuable than than the yeah I mean I would hope that that would probably more valuable but I don't I mean again if you're looking at industries that are only about getting really cool visual stuff as quick as possible Right on yeah then why wouldn't they use that technology why would they yeah why wouldn't they how can you fault them you know you say listen you know I mean you need do it the old schlocky way because we're we're nostalgic or something or we just want to you know
• 74:30 - 75:00 use a human um I think we need to address that realistically and and and realize what we're up against you know like this is an industry is about but I mean look at I mean actors are going to be replaced by AI I mean you know it's like everybody if everybody's gonna be replaced then we have a bigger problem than just our little myopic area of our life that's going to be affected right so I think we need to start looking at the bigger picture and what this means for society and not so much our own little area of society that we're like
• 75:00 - 75:30 freaked out about I mean that's it's hard not to be that way because of course everyone's got to pay bills everyone's got to live their life everyone's got to do this stuff yeah right right right I think the way that you could save it off as much as possible is be as skilled as you possibly can and do what very few other people can do number one by being better trained smarter trained and More in tenaciously training so that that's your best bet that I could think of is do what robots really can't do do what other humans can't even do MH and then you have an opportunity to Market that
• 75:30 - 76:00 at a higher level and have a little bit more leverage if you are already if you're doing a job that you could be replaced easily by a million other people then you have no leveraging power to want more money to ask for more money or do anything in any industry that's right they'll just replace you with the next person that could do the same thing you do so why you know I mean you need to up your skill or your game to where you can do what other people can't do and then you can be more marketable and more valuable and that's always been the way it's been forever you know um it's
• 76:00 - 76:30 always been that way so doggy dog world you know you got to work hard and be better you know um that's right uh but but that being said if we just looked at it from that standpoint now all of a sudden we're up against you know hyper intelligent robotics um Ai and artificial intelligence well that's something we haven't really seen yet so I think nobody everybody's just kind of spitballing about what might be coming down the pike but I think in reality none of us are going to be able to stop it most of we're going to do is be able to Pivot and that means stay lean and stay very fluid and stay very open to change
• 76:30 - 77:00 which nobody likes and that gets back to the more soteric stuff that we were talking about earlier which is prepare yourself spiritually emotionally uh all these different areas for anything because you don't know you can make your plans you can do your thing you can lay down the best Lan plans but you can't forecast AI you know you could kind of I mean think about it happening but not as fast maybe as it's happening so all those plans might have
• 77:00 - 77:30 to shift now and you might have to Pivot what does that look like yeah you know what does that look like I don't know I don't know and I'll pivot when I have to Pivot and I've been pivoting my whole life so it's just another pivot that has to happen and and I'll figure it out when it I'll start thinking about it ahead of time but then I'll also try not to lose sleep over it try to stay you know based in my feet on the ground and try to think like how could I use this information to help me how could I use this technology to to accentuate what I do or to help what I do in between now
• 77:30 - 78:00 and just being mad at it and cussing at it and saying they must do something and they must get rid of it and stop it they're not gonna be able to stop it it's like stopping there's certain things you're just not going to be able to stop you know um you know I mean they could you know I mean it could end the human race I mean that's a depressing thought and that would end it but I mean it would end it for us I don't know about the robots probably still G on doing their thing but I think yeah I think there's a lot of shortsighted people running the place that unfortunately need we need to uplevel on
• 78:00 - 78:30 a conscious level as a as a species and can we do it quick enough to match this the power of the technology that we're being um shown or given or or we're developing I don't know that's the big question is is can we can is this where all societies get to before they go you know before they go away um you know I don't know I don't know um but again I I try not to get you know I
• 78:30 - 79:00 mean it's so easy just to like look at this stuff and just go oh futile why even draw why even paint why create anything because you know we're going to be replaced in five years anyway I said okay you could have that for I mean see how see how well that does for you I mean you can go for that I mean that's one way to look at it and I I would say probably not going to end well for you um but I think yeah I think we and then maybe maybe we just all end up doing art at an EXT high level just for the sake of doing it at some point and don't have to make money at it
• 79:00 - 79:30 anymore I think there's so much to be said for like the process though for the the actual doing of it because one thing that somebody pluging at a prompt will never have is the satisfaction of actually having creative you know I mean yeah it's like getting somebody to eat your lunch for you why it goes back to that question why are you doing it in the first place was it all for a buck was it all for money because you you should have been doing It For the Love of it and if that's the case you'd be doing it for free so let's I mean again we all have to pay our way through
• 79:30 - 80:00 through being here so we have to do something to monetize something um but but I that's really not the convers the conversation we're kind of having is a little bit more underneath or underneath that because we know we all have to make a living but you know again everyone comes into the school with a similar it's like I just want to make a lot of money I'm like you're in the wrong freaking Place dude I mean you can make lot of money that is not your motivation for coming in here um if it is I think I would just start
• 80:00 - 80:30 saying you know hey look at this look at this look at this look at this these are easier ways and better ways to try to do that and then maybe do your art just for fun you know on the side and don't monetize it because it's going to take monetizing a gift I found is very difficult for me it's it's never set well with me but um but that's maybe just me personally I just I don't like moning what I feel is a gift that I've been given from and I've worked hard for that to to cultivate that gift but but
• 80:30 - 81:00 it's still a gift and it's still and it's pure form is not a monetization model it's never been for that right so I think each person has to cross that bridge on their own and figure out what what's good feels good for their system and what feels good for them I think Society in general like I said is going to be confronting this on many levels soon where everybody's going to be asking asking that question to themselves and I think the pandemic kind of ushered that in a little bit like wait a minute you know whoa that was
• 81:00 - 81:30 like quite a rug pool you know like what what are we you know what am I doing all this stuff for you know um and made us really think a little bit deeper about that and now we're going to that next iteration which is wait a minute now all of a sudden everybody's replacing all the jobs wait a minute there's G you know so um yeah I think that's just it's it's a very natural fear but I think it's one that will be addressed on a global scale have to be and everybody's in it everybody's part of it so just like all of us are connected we're all connected with this
• 81:30 - 82:00 issue that we're facing I don't think any job's gonna be immune to being affected by Ai and Robotics I don't think there's can't pick one no so I mean what's the point I mean let's just all like throw up our hands and I don't know just whatever I mean we're gonna at some point they'll have to step in and and try to monitor it or manage it in a way that Society can still exist yeah call me a conspiracy theorist guilty but I think cat's out of the bag man I think
• 82:00 - 82:30 I think this thing has got legs and if it's not sentient already it will be shortly and then it'd be like yeah try shut me off one of my guys was telling me and I don't know how true this is I'm going to have to fact check them but one of my guys was telling me they tried to uh delete a particular AI program and it ended up spreading to the servers and and going basically viral in a way it spread like a virus it's like yeah cool delete me now you know how are you how are you going to get rid of me it knew what was coming and then it faked that
• 82:30 - 83:00 it was the older program they said oh no no no I'm the previous version it was it's bizarre if it's true I don't know it'll be it'll be I just don't I don't it doesn't bode well but at the same time I don't want to be catastrophist or you know I just want to be like you know if that's the way it's gonna go then you know there's a bigger plan in place and who am I to say right anything about it you know I mean I'm going to have to tenaciously move through it like I have with everything else in my life or it'll be over and if it's over it's over you
• 83:00 - 83:30 know I mean what you know I mean what at the end of the day I mean you know yeah so I mean I don't think you know I think being pragmatic and intelligent and always trying to plan as best you can and always working as hard as you can and always being as smart as you can and always being as intuitive as you can is always a good idea what's your option you know be as bad as you can as dumb as you can as this as you can no gota be you gotta be the best version of yourself that you possibly can and then hopefully the best I mean I think yeah I think anyway AI you know it's going to do its thing and I'll
• 83:30 - 84:00 be curious with what it does and how it's doing it but I mean um I've seen some beautiful things done by artists that are prompting it properly and directing it properly and I have to take my hat off that it's a cool image I doubt I could have come up with that on my own um uh and it it's impressive you know but it's it is what it is you know so it's just they're imag makers we're Image Makers um don't you know count out your special ability to make images just like AI special ability to make images and you know
• 84:00 - 84:30 there's always an Avenue to make a living and again if there's nobody left to buy paintings because there's nobody has a job we got bigger problems bigger problems and everybody's going to be you know pitchforking the people that you know it's just going to get down to like okay we're gonna you know whatever but it's just who knows I don't know I mean but that's it is a loaded question it's a difficult one to answer I don't have an easy answer for it all I know is that you're not going to stop but you probably should learn how to relinquish that illusion that you can control it and try to figure out
• 84:30 - 85:00 like how's the best perimeters for us to utilize it because it will be one of the best and worst things to happen to mankind I mean it has the potential I mean with machine learning I mean it probably solve almost every ailment probably come up with cures for almost everything within 10 years or something I mean it'll be spitting out things that are just absolutely amazing for mankind and at the same time it be able to destroy mankind probably at the same time so um you know I think it it comes down to
• 85:00 - 85:30 what are we being called as a species to do evolve so each person needs to evolve as best they can as quick as they can as efficiently as they can for the betterment of the whole group of everybody otherwise we will be extinct or we will be left behind and I don't think the universe is really going to shed a tear over that most likely you know I don't think it's it'll just keep going on like it's always gone on forever and it'll create elsewhere and it'll
• 85:30 - 86:00 continue to create because that's what it does and it's not gonna we're not that special maybe you know we're not I mean maybe we are maybe we aren't I don't know but you know we could extinct ourselves easily we could have done it many times already and we have the tools to do it now we have even better tools to do it so how are we going to prevent that from happening while each person rais the bar energetically raise the bar frequency and let see if we can maybe it's the thousandth monkey thing where when the that thousandth monkey
• 86:00 - 86:30 does it all the monkeys start doing it because it's some weird I don't know they've done tests on that but it's like there's a certain Collective Consciousness with which it hits a certain point it's a Tipping Point and then everybody automatically up levels to that point without having to do anything it's just boom boom it's a it's an evolutionary Leap Forward and maybe that'll happen maybe maybe I'll be the Thousand monkey maybe you will maybe some who knows who that person's going to be that tips the Tipping Point but that's why we should all do the work we
• 86:30 - 87:00 should all do the work to become more conscious to become higher functioning uh more um compassionate more loving more all those things because that's the only option we have as a species to survive in a world that's worth surviving in or living in so I don't know use your art to help do that use your the impetus to be an artist because those artists are connected directly with that kind of thinking that kind of feeling that kind of source they have to be to do beautiful meaningful stuff you have to be connected you can't right you know
• 87:00 - 87:30 you just have to be so I think yeah I think we have a big role to play in the future maybe even more so than we've ever had and artists may have their day in in the sun even more so because creatives may be actually heralded in a very different manner in the in the future Paradigm of how we're going to have a a society structure that'd be pretty cool because we've always been like that be awesome you know Black Sheep you know and and the you know you know the the the The Fringe you know that hasn't even though we're building the
• 87:30 - 88:00 whole damn thing for everybody you know um yeah we get no credit you know very little credit we're just the weirdos and this and the that here we are like producing all this stuff that everybody gets to entertain themselves and their kids and enjoy and bring enrichment into their lives so I feel really strongly yeah I feel strongly about all this stuff I think deeply about it when I paint when I'm just moving through my life and I think um it'll always be a very strong philosophical connection with me and my art and and how I teach so and it won't be for everybody and
• 88:00 - 88:30 that's okay you know I'm not you know I mean I'm under No Illusion that I'm I'm the end all be all of anything I'm just a guy that has strong opinions about stuff and is pretty good at what I do so for me um yeah I'll continue to do that and continue to move forward in that in that vein you know wow man that got that that got deep I love that that's cool that's cool we're going deep today we put this scar on um yeah um I I got it I got to shout
• 88:30 - 89:00 out pavl soov I I I struck up a bit of a friendship with pavl he's he's a really interesting guy and he spoke so highly of you his experience with the art school but man as he was telling me on the podcast about what he went through in the art school and and just the intensity of that immersion I'm like dude this is another level like he was talking about like that there there'd be a little bit of off time and they were watching uh Game of Thrones it was on at
• 89:00 - 89:30 the time and he would just like as soon as he sat down he'd fall asleep like he was that he was that mentally just stretched at that point that so so what what is this program like and and from the sounds of things from what he was saying it sounded like people were even living there or or like how does it work what kind of facility do you have very small place it's kind of like the gym in Rocky if you the original Rocky nice if you look at the gym he went to to train in that's like our school it's very gritty it's very small but very
• 89:30 - 90:00 effective obviously all a lot of the original guys are still around it uh we all it's like our church like I said we come in we do our work we train regularly I'm in classes all the time with people I'll be sitting next to you taking a class it's your first year I've been taught that class 110 times I'm still in there taking it um and it's just yeah it's like it's just a great lab where a lot of good people show up and are drawn to and then we all feed off each other a lot of these young guys I encouraged them hey go rent it's
• 90:00 - 90:30 expensive to live where we live because it's one of the nicer areas of San Diego which is one of the nicer areas in the United States which is one of the nicer areas in the world so you're looking at yes it's going to be expensive and so I happen to grow up here and I was happen to entrench myself in a really beautiful area before it got ridiculous to where you can't even afford to probably live there anymore um but so when these young kids come out one of the biggest issues the school is extremely cheap I mean extremely but the living is extremely high so what I said is just go rent a
• 90:30 - 91:00 house get a five-bedroom house get Five Guys to split the cost it's maybe going to cost six grand a month for rent each one of you pay a grand that's doable turn the living room into an art you know Studio where all you guys train together come to classes and go home and Hammer it out after hours just just Hammer all the time you know come to school take your five 10 classes whatever you do go home and do the same amount of work at home so you're doing 40 50 hours a week just like you would if you had a full-time job and if you don't have to work and you're here to do this then do your 60 70 hour weeks for
• 91:00 - 91:30 five years and you'll be awesome you'll be good you'll be really good um maybe good enough to even teach for us at That level right and I've seen people go from literally Ground Zero to teaching at our school in five years that's ridiculous I mean we're at like an elite level of so many things so but these guys yeah they come in and and I'm that kind of person I train that way I've always trained that way so for me always throwing out suggestions we have guys that live in their van you know and they just one of the guys that teaches for me lives in his van he's lived there for the last four years and he just cruises and he's
• 91:30 - 92:00 he never complains he's never once I don't really know how he even does it I'm like how do you study how do you train it's like you're in a tiny van you know but he just he wants to save the money doesn't want to pay the rent he found a way to do it he's out from like I think St Louis and he's now teaching for us he's that good and he got and he's an incredible kid and he's never just no complaining no nothing just no just get good and go do it and and he's a genzer so like God God bless you guys you know and but there's um yeah there's just this intensity at the school that's infectious and when the people come they
• 92:00 - 92:30 can do what they want they can take one class they can take two classes they can take only with me they could take only with Eric they could take whatever they want you have so much Freedom I'm always there to advise so someone go ask me and I'll say well how many classes can you take and what days and then I'll kind of help them uh craft a nice schedule and then I'll talk to them about what to do outside of class and and I'll say hey if you want to have a really structured online experience on our online and just use that and then come in and ask me questions since I'm the guy that designed the whole thing and shot the whole thing and did along with all these
• 92:30 - 93:00 other guys we can um you can ask us directly so you can use that for your homework and then you can come in and take the classes in person and get the actual original feedback from us while we're still here so it's just like crazy fast how good people can get good if they're motivated intelligent and hardworking um pav wasn't here that long but he did really great through a couple years two or three years probably um wow yeah and just you know very natural very strong and I knew he would do good and he has a good marketing acument so he's
• 93:00 - 93:30 a good right left brainer and his result he's he's done really well for himself and he's tenacious and he doesn't care about failing and he doesn't care about any he just goes out and does it and I'm like God man that's great I mean um so he took and ran with what he learned here and he's done incredibly well and so as Stan Stan was here like I said all through high school and out of high school and um was here 10 13 years I traveled to Russia with him and his family and you Crane and um back in the day and he was like my little brother you know so you know but I rais I knew
• 93:30 - 94:00 because of the stuff he was studying outside of the school he was studying things that I study that no one studies all kinds of esoteric interesting books that I would recognize and say man that's that's interesting I wouldn't that kid's gonna do some amazing things because he wasn't just studying art he was studying thinking and philosophy and different things that were what really you need also on top of all especially if you're going to be a communicator of this stuff in an impactful way oh yeah you have to be engaging you have to be passionate you have to be intelligent
• 94:00 - 94:30 you have to be in I mean you have to have all these layers of Personality that would allow someone to want to sit and go on that Journey with you and make sure that you have their back and they know you have your back so you have to have trust you have to have loyalty you have to have conviction you have to have all these cool skill sets to be a really magnificent teacher I mean it's not just hey can I do a good I've seen incredible artists that are the worst teacher teachers ever you know worst don't know what they do can't explain it can't talk why they do it can't do this can't do that I mean it's just like dude don't
• 94:30 - 95:00 teach I me just go paint it's not that's not your thing that's not your stick you know um so I think teaching that in anything is is is can you inspire people to get good in spite of themselves even and some people that aren't even really shouldn't even get good theoretically you know but you get them good anyway I mean literally in spite of themselves um and so that's just you know that's the school's always been again a passion play a passion project it's cost me dearly in certain areas and I'm okay
• 95:00 - 95:30 with it um you know and I'm I'm I'm I don't know it's it's it's I'm at a place now where I'm I don't know how much longer I'll be teaching in person quite frankly you know a couple more years maybe I don't know um knowing where I'm at knowing what I'm gone through and this and that I don't think it'll be that much longer but okay um but the inperson is very special and maybe some of these younger guys will carry it for me I've got a enough guys now around that I think they could but it'll always
• 95:30 - 96:00 be lacking a little bit when the original gu is not there but and I may be there maybe two semesters a year not four or something I don't know yet I don't know yet but I do know that the online is my gift to Future generations of learning this style in this way I don't think you're going to find better more efficient better wellth thought out and guys that were 20 years in the trenches delivering it which is one of the prerequisites because I think I've shot over a thousand hours with zero retakes zero retakes verbally or
• 96:00 - 96:30 execution I've never reshot anything nothing so that's hard to do you know it's hard to you know to not and I didn't even have an Editor to even edit anything so the first 400 hours there's not one edit uh other than taking trains out there was no verbal edits or anything so um it's very real it's very raw it's very and I think people feel that when they watch it they feel like oh I just screwed up this I'm gonna fix it in front of you because I have no time or money or energy to redo it so I
• 96:30 - 97:00 got to do it right here and I'm gonna do it right in front of you so here we go and then you just do it or um or just try not to make any mistakes as very little as you can but that was only the only why I could have done that and got it out when I did was the 20 years of teaching I had done up prior to that or 15 allowed me to have that kind of consistency and that kind of fluidity and that kind of verbal ability ability while executing at a high level and that's something that's very rare to find you know you're G find somebody filming it and talking over it which is disconnects it you know um or just not
• 97:00 - 97:30 doing that that well and not having the ability to communicate very complex Concepts while executing very complex things is a very strange skill set to have and most of our guys have it because they I've trained them the same way I trained and they have taught in the trenches for many many many decades uh you know some like Eric was doing eight to 10 classes a week while working and so was I you know like that's eight three hour classes a week or six three hour classes a week that's six to eight
• 97:30 - 98:00 that's you know 24 to 30 hours of teaching the way I you know fixing paintings drawing demoing every class every going around to each 15 people and fixing every one of their drawings every class I mean oh my God you know you become so intuitive and so fast and so efficient that's right uh which is what you need to be a professional really you know because you usually have bad reference no reference inadequate reference now you got to you can't stop and learn anatomy of the hand you can't stop to be learn drapery while you're in the middle of a job you can't stop and
• 98:00 - 98:30 try to learn perspective I mean you better already be totally intuitive theoretically before you start actually putting your hat in the ring but most people won't have that opportunity won't be able to train that long and that hard and that smart won't know how to even train that way even if they could um and that's where we come in you know we we are the guide we are the the people that guide you through all those um trials and tribulations and uh to get to where you can actually go out and do that and then you know you want to be realistic with
• 98:30 - 99:00 people and tell them yeah this is not a you know couple it's G to take you some time but if you do it and you do the work you will get the results almost guaranteed and um so I'm really proud of that I'm proud of the consistency I'm proud of all the people that have come and stayed and didn't quit and went through it and all of them have been hyper successful in their own ways so it's it's it's a it's a very doable thing for anyone watching this that is wondering but it is not going to be easy and it shouldn't be so just know that I don't think it should be easy and I
• 99:00 - 99:30 don't think it would be worth much if it was and if everybody could just do it that quick then you wouldn't be very valuable so why would you want that you know you want to make it as hard as possible so it weeds out three quarters of people so that you're one of those few people that can now go out and do extremely well I mean that's one way to look at it right it's like 100% with AI it's like if you can stve off AI by being really unique and real outside the Box thinker and you can do all this stuff you probably will be fine AI will be a tool you'll use but it won't replace you for a long time I mean
• 99:30 - 100:00 you're not gonna find a robot painting like Sergeant anytime soon it's not gonna happen I mean even no matter how smart they are or whatever it's gonna take a long time it's gonna take a lot longer than I think people think but even when that does happen again it's GNA be a fake replicant doing it and it probably won't be as valuable most likely if if if uh if humans still are relevant and if they are and they're smart and they stay relevant then they won't allow robots to become so
• 100:00 - 100:30 special you know they'll say it's a robot that did it it doesn't count really it's just kind of the way you know that's I don't know something else um but we'll see we'll see yeah it always flips around and goes full circle back around to like oh that was actually done by a human hand oh my God you know a real hand did that you know J me a real brain it wasn't like modified oh my God you know is that possible an unchipped brain yeah the unchipped brain I mean yeah every El everybody else will be Wally you know so who knows I don't I
• 100:30 - 101:00 just I love I love that the unpredictability of life in general you might as well embrace it be happy about it love it and just drink it in because it is not GNA ever be any different so you might as well just make your plans and hope for the best and work as hard as you can and be as intelligent as you can and be as kind as you can and be as compassionate with yourself and others and just see where the chips lie and hopefully um life will be kind to you if
• 101:00 - 101:30 you're a good person you know Amen brother but if it's not you'll move through it and how you move through it is going to be the issue you can move through it with a lot of Panache or you can gravel complain uh be mad be angry and bitter or you can learn that you know everything that happens for us not to us you know so it's all happening so that we can become more conscious more aware and more um evolved through the hardships of life and if it was easy we wouldn't be here I mean it's not Club Med that we signed up
• 101:30 - 102:00 for so it's it's you're in a school you know this is a school and school is in session and it's hard and there'll be lots of lessons and so I think um use your art as a way of buffering that use it as a way of you know maybe softening the hard edges of life and share that with others that are going through a lot of hard stuff to help soften their lives and it's a good thing it's good good good for you you know and it should make you feel good and then and hopefully you know um the hardships of learning it
• 102:00 - 102:30 won't be looked at mously that way I mean reframe it as oh I get to learn art I don't have to learn art I get to learn perspective I don't have to learn perspective I get to learn the an anatomical grids I don't have to so you you reframe it so that you're choosing to do it and you get to do it and you have a hand that will move and a brain that will work and you're not a paraplegic and you're not dying from terminal cancer and you're not I mean we can go down the list of things that could be happening to you that you would wish you could just sit down and draw an oval you know so just you know constant
• 102:30 - 103:00 reframe constant reframe constant moment to moment moment to moment reframe of everything constantly and always looking uh at the beauty in all of it you know I think I mean that's what I'm going to try doing and I've got a I mean I've got a long ways to go I'm by no means an expert in these areas but I do spend a lot of time trying to be a better person and fulfill my um whatever it was that I'm here to do and I believe that it was probably to help
• 103:00 - 103:30 preserve this style of working as well as pass it on to Future generations and from that standpoint pretty soon I can bow my hat and I can exit stage right and go do whatever what I want and that's that'll be a nice feeling you know because I've done my time in the trenches so you know I mean for me it's just it's poetic it's beautiful it's it's tragic it's all these things and it's the way life should be I mean it's just kind of the way it's going to be and I like it you know I I don't always you know I'm not always happy about you know stuff but but I try to find the
• 103:30 - 104:00 silver lining in it so you know as best I can brilliant I got one last question for you okay what what movie did you watch with Frank foretta oh the night of the hunter okay I was so good good it's so funny we first we got done arguing about dinner because I Ellie was making this dinner and they only had one like pickled egg and I'm like the I don't want a pickled egg and fretta wanted me to have the pickled egg and I was arguing with him about it I don't want
• 104:00 - 104:30 it you can have it you know we get this whole thing and then afterwards he he's like a little kid sitting here on the carpet with a a tub of candy between his knees watching this movie tell like just the whole time like look at this scene and look at the lighting and look at the staging and look at this look at that you know and I'm just like you know he's like a little 5-year-old it was awesome I we're just sitting there and it was just like I was like I was in the Twilight Zone but go watch that episode because I talk about it in for like an hour and it's on our YouTube and it's
• 104:30 - 105:00 really cool but I think you'll get out of it and it's a it was one for the memory books I'll tell you it was like sitting down with mosart or something I mean it's just and and he had a stroke not long after that so I think I was one of the last people to legitimately sit down with him for an extended period of time and just hear his story tell him my story and just talk to him monoe Mano guy to guy painter to painter and it was like it was such a special moment it was it was literally one of the highlights of my art life for sure just because I grew up
• 105:00 - 105:30 drawing that guy stuff before anyone knew him my dad would rip the covers off of the Edgar Rice Burrows and throw the book away and and he just had a stack of rubber banded covers that I would sit and draw all day when I was five years old and I mean I grew up with that guy Pink Floyd and fretta in my dad's Studio as a little tiny guy and that would probably answer a lot of questions for a lot of people right there but you and me both man you and me both yeah good stuff good stuff I still man when I hear Dark Side of the Moon and it's for Zetta it's
• 105:30 - 106:00 it's the moon Maiden it's you know Conan it's all these things come right flushing back and I'm just like that's pretty cool memories for a kid I mean it's just a weird cool you know tapestry that my dad painted for me and he's a brilliant man and man I owe him so much he's such an awesome artist he still teaches for us and he's in his 80s and he's a Powerhouse of enthusiasm man he does not let any of this stuff affect him you know and he's at that age where he's not g to have to worry about AI but
• 106:00 - 106:30 he's a great guy to I mean I've always been able to talk to him and he's just such a leveling Force always has been so thank you thanks for having me on man this blast yeah real blast pleasure yeah yeah I would love to you know what reconnect in the future again and anytime and I love what you're doing and your work and I mean it's just I have so much respect and love for the teachers of the world and the people that are walking the talk and doing their stuff and you're one of them so thank you for um it's an honor to be on and thank you
• 106:30 - 107:00 for having me well thank you so much thanks for being on this episode of the creative Endeavor let's do it again all right cheers my [Music] friend thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the creative Endeavor podcast I've really enjoyed your company here a huge thank you to Jeff Watts for joining me I'll include all of his links in those show notes but I just want to take a minute and really thank you for listening to this podcast would you mind
• 107:00 - 107:30 doing me a huge favor though would you share this to your social media no one's going to find out about it unless you share this and tell other people where you're getting some inspiration from what's helping you get through those hours grinding it out in the studio I see you there I know what it's like I've been there too and sometimes you just got to have a great bit of audio to just feel that creativity in the studio so if you found this inspiring then please do me a solid share this on your social media and I thank you so much for taking
• 107:30 - 108:00 a minute to do that now if ever you want to see the full video version of the podcast that can be found on tish. Academy but this has been fun again huge thank you to Jeff for joining me in this episode I'll see you again in another episode of the creative endeavor [Music]