INTERVIEW with RTE at AmerisourceBergen on remote SAFe® PI Planning

Summary

In this engaging interview, Sabrina from AmerisourceBergen shares insights into her SAFe journey, detailing the transition from traditional PI planning to a remote setup due to COVID-19. Starting her SAFe journey in 2014, Sabrina discusses the expansion of their team and the reasons for switching from waterfall methodologies to SAFe. She shares the challenges and solutions found in transitioning to remote PI planning, the tools involved, and the efforts to maintain engagement and productivity in a virtual environment. Her reflections on the future of remote and hybrid PI planning highlight her optimism and adaptability.

Highlights

• Sabrina embarked on the SAFe journey in 2014, growing her teams significantly. 🌟
• Shifting from waterfall methodologies proved crucial as SAFe offered more suitable frameworks for timely updates. 🔄
• COVID-19 accelerated the move to remote PI planning, demanding innovative solutions under tight deadlines. 🦠
• Mural was initially used for remote planning but presented challenges which led to the adoption of the PI Planning app. 📋
• Creative solutions like music-themed sessions and virtual happy hours helped maintain team spirit remotely. 🎉
• Future aspirations include more social tools to enhance remote interaction, bridging the gap technology can create. 📱

Key Takeaways

• The transition from waterfall to SAFe was due to the need for timely updates and bug fixes in oncology software. 🚀
• Remote PI planning was a necessity due to the pandemic, demanding quick adaptation and new tools, like Mural and later, the PI Planning app. 💻
• Engagement in remote settings was enhanced through innovative icebreakers and music, keeping the atmosphere lively. 🎶
• Sabrina highlights the importance of reliable tools that integrate well with existing systems like Azure DevOps. 🔧
• The future seems to hold a mix of remote and in-person PI planning, allowing flexibility and inclusivity. 🌐

Overview

Embarking on their SAFe journey in 2014, Sabrina led AmerisourceBergen through significant changes, growing from eight teams to around eighteen. This journey was fueled by the need for more agile solutions to keep up with product demands, leaving traditional waterfall methods behind.

The onset of COVID-19 necessitated a quick pivot to remote PI planning. Initially experimenting with tools like Mural, Sabrina and her teams overcame early hurdles, eventually finding success with the PI Planning app, which integrated seamlessly with their existing Azure DevOps setup.

Looking forward, Sabrina envisions a future with a hybrid of remote and in-person PI planning sessions, aiming to leverage the best of both worlds. Her emphasis on social connectivity alongside technical precision illustrates a balanced approach to modern challenges.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction and Guest Background The chapter introduces Sabrina, a certified SPC 5 trainer, program director, and release train engineer at AmerisourceBergen, a Fortune Top 10 U.S. company. The conversation begins with an expression of gratitude for participating in the interview and an eagerness for the discussion. Sabrina's background and her journey in the Scaled Agile Framework (SAFe) are highlighted by the interviewer, who prompts her to elaborate on her beginnings, how she started, and the scale of her SAFe experiences.
• 00:30 - 01:00: SAFe Journey and Initial Implementation The chapter titled 'SAFe Journey and Initial Implementation' begins by discussing the start of their journey in October 2014, which coincides with the narrator's initial experience as a Scrum Master. At that time, they were working with version three of a certain framework. As for the company's scale, they initially had eight teams consisting of 51 members. Fast forward to the present October, they have successfully conducted their 29th PI (Program Increment) planning event, indicating their growth and continued commitment to the SAFe (Scaled Agile Framework) model.
• 01:00 - 01:30: Reasons for Implementing SAFe The chapter discusses the rationale behind implementing the SAFe framework. The decision was made due to handling a large number of teams, around 18, comprising over 100 members. The waterfall approach was found to be insufficient, prompting the shift to SAFe.
• 01:30 - 02:00: Importance of PI Planning The chapter titled 'Importance of PI Planning' discusses how the adoption of Program Increment (PI) Planning, especially in the context of supporting an oncology software, addresses critical issues faced when using the waterfall method. The traditional waterfall approach resulted in delays that were detrimental to timely bug fixes and enhancements, causing customer dissatisfaction. The transition to a more agile method, such as PI Planning, is highlighted as crucial for improving response times, ensuring customer satisfaction, and maintaining competitiveness in an evolving industry.
• 02:00 - 02:30: Preparing for PI Planning PI Planning is a crucial event for organizations, setting the tone and preparing teams for upcoming tasks that customers depend on. It ensures the delivery of quality software. Preparation for PI Planning is frequently discussed as it's essential to the event's success.
• 02:30 - 03:30: Impact of COVID-19 on PI Planning In this chapter, the discussion revolves around the preparations necessary for a PI (Program Increment) planning event within an organization, especially amidst the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic. The speaker reflects on how the planning process has adapted over time, transitioning from physical to virtual setups. They talk about the importance of advance preparation, typically starting a month ahead, and the collaborative efforts with scrum masters to finalize logistics such as location, number of teams and team members, food, breakout sessions, and communication strategies. The chapter highlights the complexity involved in organizing such events and the specific adjustments needed to accommodate the shift to virtual environments during the pandemic.
• 03:30 - 04:30: Challenges of Remote PI Planning This chapter delves into the intricacies of preparing for remote PI (Program Increment) Planning sessions. One key aspect explored is the time investment required for adequate preparation. A speaker suggests that while a two-week timeframe is beneficial, extending the preparation period beyond two weeks is preferable to avoid last-minute rushes. The discussion implies a need for meticulous planning and early preparation to ensure the success of remote PI Planning, taking into account the contributions of guest speakers and other logistical elements.
• 04:30 - 06:30: Solution to Remote Planning Challenges The chapter 'Solution to Remote Planning Challenges' discusses the importance of preparation and organization in remote planning. It emphasizes the necessity of setting clear agendas and formats to avoid leaving teams guessing about upcoming plans. Furthermore, the chapter highlights the significance of training for new tools, as the team has switched tools several times due to the dynamic nature of the current environment, possibly referring to the impacts of COVID. The need for adaptability and the logistical considerations of remote planning are key points addressed in this chapter.
• 06:30 - 08:00: Feedback on Remote PI Planning The chapter titled 'Feedback on Remote PI Planning' discusses how the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic ('19') necessitated a shift to remote work, particularly impacting the way PI (Program Increment) Planning is conducted. The narrator explains that they were given a two-week notice from their company regarding the cessation of business travel. This change forced them to rapidly adapt to remote planning processes.
• 08:00 - 10:00: Tools and Techniques for Remote Engagement The chapter discusses the planning and execution process for a remote event scheduled for mid-April. It highlights the responsibilities involved, such as devising a plan, consulting with the lead team, and training the scrum master team. The scrum masters are then expected to train their respective teams in preparation for the event.
• 10:00 - 11:30: Communication and Recognition in Remote Settings The chapter delves into the challenges and solutions associated with remote communication and recognition. A significant issue highlighted is the difficulty in communication within remote settings. The speaker discusses the lack of physical movement and transparency that exists in traditional big room PI planning events, where participants can easily view boards and interact with one another. The chapter appears to focus on the adaptations necessary to overcome these challenges.
• 11:30 - 12:30: Role and Influence of RTE The chapter delves into the challenges and strategies involved in transitioning traditional in-person planning meetings to remote settings. It highlights the importance of leveraging available tools to facilitate this shift, using a specific example of a participant having access to the 'mural' (assumed to be MURAL, a digital workspace for visual collaboration) for planning despite its unconventional application. The summary notes the innovative adaptation to virtual environments within a limited timeframe of two weeks.
• 12:30 - 15:00: Future of PI Planning: Remote vs. In-Person The chapter discusses PI Planning with a focus on remote versus in-person settings. It highlights the use of Mural as a planning board, despite its initial lack of design for such a purpose. A method was devised to create individualized 'rooms' for each team to streamline the process for Scrum Masters. Training sessions were provided to ensure that Scrum Masters could efficiently use Mural and in turn, train their teams on its usage. However, the initial experience with this solution was described as challenging.
• 15:00 - 17:00: Hybrid PI Planning Possibilities The chapter discusses the challenges faced during a hybrid PI (Program Increment) planning session. It emphasizes the difficulty in using a hands-on collaborative tool in a virtual setting, describing how the lack of physical presence and the need for constant manipulation of digital tools led to distractions. The experience of participants was affected as items in the digital workspace would move unexpectedly, leading to frustration and disruption among team members.
• 17:00 - 21:30: Future Wishes and Closing Remarks This chapter discusses the challenges faced in onboarding and preparing remote teams for planning activities. The speaker recounts their experience of training team members and realizing the necessity of acquiring additional licenses, specifically mentioning a requirement for about 100 more licenses.

INTERVIEW with RTE at AmerisourceBergen on remote SAFe® PI Planning Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 sabrina uh very well welcome to this interview thank you so much for taking the time and for being here with us today thank you so much for inviting me i'm really been looking forward to this you are an spc 5 certified trainer you are also a program director and release train engineer at amerisource bergen a u.s based company part of the fortune top 10. and before we get started i want to talk about the history of your safe journey so can you talk a bit more about when you get started how you got started and also about the size of uh your safe
• 00:30 - 01:00 implementation and where resource yes of course so um our journey started in uh october of 2014 uh when we had our first and that's actually when i became a scrum master and probably uh that was version three i believe just to give some reference to where we are now uh we had eight teams and 51 team members as of october of this year um we had our 29th pi planning event
• 01:00 - 01:30 uh we are now up to just about 18 teams 18 teams up and down one or more less and a little over 100 team members wow awesome can you also talk a bit why you actually decided to implement safe what were the reasons to to use safe as your framework and not something else well uh as many companies find and sometimes the hard way um this uh waterfall was not
• 01:30 - 02:00 working uh we support an oncology software that requires uh bug fixes um and you know enhancements to keep up with the times and um the the waterfall method was um draining us uh and in the customers were having to wait too long uh for releases and fixes right makes sense so let's also talk about safe in practice specifically about the importance of the
• 02:00 - 02:30 pi planning what relevance has the pi planning is an event for your organization pi planning is the event that sets the tone and um is the event that prepares our teams for what is going to be approaching that our customers are relying on to be delivered that quality software that they can depend on got it and in that regard preparation for the actual pi planning is also a topic that is often discussed
• 02:30 - 03:00 so i also wonder how do you take care of the preparation for actually a pi planning event in your organization so um as the time approaches a month or so ahead you know it's always planned i work with my scrub masters and we look at the layout um where we're going to be the setting in the past when it wasn't virtual where it will be how many teams how many team members food um breakouts communication there's a lot involved
• 03:00 - 03:30 guest speakers and that's all taken into consideration right what would they say like approximately how much uh work or time do you need to prepare before pm planning do you have like a two week time frame that you invest there or what's the approximate time effort that you put into the preparation so two weeks is good i like to have more than two weeks just because i don't like to leave things to the last minute
• 03:30 - 04:00 but at least two weeks because when we're preparing we're also preparing our teams uh for what's coming up uh because we don't like to leave them guessing uh what the format's gonna be what the agenda's gonna be so that and then training if needed uh for tools that are going to be used and of course with this environment we've uh switched tools a couple of times and uh that takes a little time right you talked about the environment covent
• 04:00 - 04:30 19 hit earlier this year and basically also changed the way that we work with each other the way that we conduct pi plannings in that regard when were you actually forced to think about going remote for the first time and how did you approach that at emory source so i had about two weeks notice um our our company put out that we would not be traveling anymore as of the beginning of
• 04:30 - 05:00 uh april 1st and mid-april was our pi planning event that was scheduled so within that two weeks um i had to uh come up with a plan uh train whatever plan that would be run it by the lead team and feel the lead team members train uh the scrum master team if needed so the scrum master team to train their teams on uh the
• 05:00 - 05:30 plan that we would use got it and you know by just making it happening in just two weeks i can imagine he also faced certain challenges so what were some of the challenges that you faced with going remote and how did you solve them challenge um so for me it's always communication communication is probably always a challenging and then besides that when we have big room pi planning events right we have the ability to move around and the transparency to view the boards and such so
• 05:30 - 06:00 transcribing that actual in-person big room planning to a remote venue is what i was shooting for right and how do you actually do that like did you use any specific tools or what was the solution for for that challenge yeah so um since we had two weeks it was uh work with what we had access to uh i have access i had access to the mural planning board uh not mural it's not a planning board i
• 06:00 - 06:30 made it a planning board uh mural is not a tool that was designed for planning uh so i designed um sort of rooms for each of the teams to make it easier for the scrum masters and then uh as i did that after i did that then i met with the scrum masters and trained them on how to use mural and then the scrum masters train their teams on how to use mural got it and how was your experience with that solution in the first place so it was uh it's difficult
• 06:30 - 07:00 because it is a very hands-on tool if we were working in one room altogether the whole time and didn't have breakouts it might have worked better but it requires a lot of manipulation and besides that there's a lot of movement if it's not locked down so the experience was um people were getting aggravated and distracted because uh items were moving on you know iterations or sticky notes were moving and what have you it was just it was distracting got it
• 07:00 - 07:30 and another challenge that you might face in that regard is to really also on board and you know make sure that your teams and people that are part of your teams are ready for the actual planning so how do you onboard the different teams in a remote setting so the onboarding was that um i trained my team members and it's and then after that um i'm realizing that i needed a license um we had to obtain 100 more around 100
• 07:30 - 08:00 more license for mural through the company um which i had to do myself um do all the you know communication and then um once they had the access then uh make sure that those scrum masters had were able and ready to train and that we were all on the same page about how we were going to approach this pi planning event using that tool right so then you did your first remote pi planning what was the feedback of of the teams and the people attending the actual planning so they're they were
• 08:00 - 08:30 happy and proud that we pulled it off and you know as teams um working all remote um however the least amount of variability that you can provide you know provides more uh consistency to people and feels makes people more comfortable and mural was highly variable the use of it also the fact that it didn't really provide a big the big room feel and it
• 08:30 - 09:00 didn't provide us the ability to um use one format that everyone uh was familiar with and there weren't as i mentioned a lot of variations right so there you actually face a big decision right do you stick with the tool set that you feel it's it might be working okay but it's not like the perfect fit or do you then switch and retrain everybody again and
• 09:00 - 09:30 look for another solution so how did you solve that and that's a great point because when you uh again i mentioned uh having consistency provides people with more um security or feeling um less um feeling like things are less hectic i believe especially with this environment so um thinking about what i could have done to how we would improve using the feedback
• 09:30 - 10:00 we received on the mural tool um i started to examine that uh however at the same time i had met you in october of 2019 at the safe summit and you reached out to me out of the blue which was quite fortunate because that was a huge dilemma i i didn't want this work to be extra work for the team members their work was pi planning not having to worry about how to use a tool
• 10:00 - 10:30 and train for it and oh will i mess it up and how will we do this and how we do that so um we were able to use your tool to make a long story short absolutely and maybe you can also walk a bit or talk a bit about the actual onboarding so how they then actually switch to people from mural to the pi planning app were were there any big challenges in that regard any steep learning curves that you had to tackle how was the experience also the feedback of your
• 10:30 - 11:00 teams first of all for me it was 50 percent less uh stressful uh planning for pi planning again uh because the tool provided the foundation and the consistency that i knew that we needed i also knew that the tool would be easy for the team members to learn and use so that provided comfort and in fact
• 11:00 - 11:30 that's what happened um i i learned and then i trained the scrub master team and they trained their teams and a couple days uh some of the teams got trained a couple days prior to the pi planning event and it went off uh smashingly it was a great success um lots of feedback about how great it was not to have to worry about um wrecking the boards with the tool
• 11:30 - 12:00 um not lots of feedback about i'm not being distracted um easy to learn um and the big uh plus is that for the first time ever even with room in room pi planning um we have integration with azure devops which we never had so that's taken another step out of our um planning and post-planning activities
• 12:00 - 12:30 yeah right that's like the the time that you mentioned before right you want to let the people focus on the planning and not waste any of their valuable time with metal copy pasting or anything of that sort correct well yes and and the same thing goes for post pi planning right um to be able to for the scrum master to be able to jump back in with their teams without having to perform the housekeeping duties of moving information from um the boards back into azure devops right and i'm sure that that probably
• 12:30 - 13:00 also felt like a relief because you took a bet you didn't know if it was actually improvement or not but then when he got the feedback of the teams you must have also felt pretty relieved that everything worked out as you as you wished yes it was amazing it's it's still amazing feeling honestly awesome let's also talk about your other uh you know remote pi planning experience so usually if you are going remote you also have to put way more energy into things like keeping the people engaged or
• 13:00 - 13:30 making room for social time like a happy hour or anything of that sort so can you also share some best practices and learning that you have in in that regard yes so uh as i mentioned before uh you know pi planning we all know it's you know it's business um to get the pi planning completed but we like to have fun too and in person it's a lot easier um we see each other um we there are sometimes we don't see people until pi planning
• 13:30 - 14:00 but we don't have that benefit with the virtual environment so it was brainstorming that had to be done to think about what can we do to make it less impersonal in a technology environment so uh we had icebreakers such as um one was show a picture from your favorite travel and then picking and then team members would share
• 14:00 - 14:30 their pictures and about uh what that picture meant to them and it it allowed us to make more of a personal connection um we also um i also started adding music because i know music that goes a long way with a lot of people uh with their mood and what have you so i tried to switch that up you know one time it was a covid theme all covered songs um or disco or 80s um and i just i
• 14:30 - 15:00 varied it depending on feedback but that was a big hit um and then we had teams that got together for virtual happy hours after planning wasn't required uh because we did spend quite a bit of time uh during the day with planning but uh teams members enjoyed it sounds great and i love these little touches that you put in there with the holiday pictures or also at the music of course let's also talk about the tech stack so you
• 15:00 - 15:30 use ado as your alm tool uh you use the pi planning app to actually conduct the planning are there any other tools that you used for remote plannings yes communication so uh i'm just gonna refer back to the first time uh we had skype uh teams had not been implemented we used skype uh it was quite a little quite a bit of work um then we the company invested in teams and we used teams so
• 15:30 - 16:00 we the breakout rooms i just uh all the teams had a breakout room uh the main channel was always live so uh day one uh business context and roadmap were delivered on the main channel um also i'd like to mention uh that another added uh nice thing to do for the teams is recognition so in that pi planning we will recognize colleagues for things they've done we have a homegrown
• 16:00 - 16:30 recognition program besides company recognition service anniversaries and promotions which is another hit so let's also talk about your role as an rte as an rt you're also an agile change maker and change agent actually in your organization so going remote i can imagine you actually also have to really onboard your leadership to make things happen so how they actually onboard them on going remote and also probably you know making
• 16:30 - 17:00 an investment here or there for a new setup or you know new solutions and tools that you needed along the way well i think uh most of it is is that i've proven uh how dedicated i am to the team members and uh to the company in general and i've earned the trust of the leadership team i've earned the trust of my team members uh to that they know that when i'm have a plan that it's well thought out
• 17:00 - 17:30 i also recognize i i consider the people part of it um how it may be uh received uh in that planning so let's also talk a bit about the future so what is your take do you think that remote pi plannings are here to stay or are we all going back to in person like physical plannings again that's a great question i've thought about it as
• 17:30 - 18:00 well thought about it every time every day there are many of us that can't wait to get back to the to the office and have the big room planning there are others that uh would rather keep staying at home and have the ability to be remote we have been remote with teams in the past however uh we didn't have the tools that we have now and so it didn't work out well when they were remote basically they couldn't really participate in planning after the
• 18:00 - 18:30 business and the roadmap presentations were done so um it's going to be a variance i believe with us and i i believe it's here to stay right i think what you describe is something that like many companies now you know it keeps their mind busy and that they have to to really work around that some people wanting to stay remote others wanted to go back to physical planning do you think that like a mix could also work where you have some people joining remote and
• 18:30 - 19:00 others are actually in the same room doing physical planning yes uh i think it can work as long as we can ensure that if we are on location in a big room that when we have breakouts that there are breakout rooms for the remote teams to join with the teams uh at the office uh to to plan i'm curious to see because i i think i've never heard about a mix yet so it's like either fully remote or
• 19:00 - 19:30 fully in person so i'm really curious to see if a company pulls that off and has a hybrid remote planning that would be interesting to see yeah we'll definitely have that we do have also i failed to mention we have remote teams uh in south america that will not travel uh here to united states for planning so they will we will be using the tool with them awesome curious to hear your experience once you've done that for the first time yes
• 19:30 - 20:00 that'd be great i'll be happy to share it absolutely let's also look at the future so if there's anything that you could wish for you know that could be new technical solutions or changes or also just general trends that you see coming up for remote pi plannings what comes to mind if you have a wish list but also a future outlook what you see rising up on the horizon so i think uh more opportunity for apps that
• 20:00 - 20:30 provide the social aspect for planning because i really hate to i'm a social person myself i really hate to see uh us lose touch uh technology is awesome but it can also ruin the social aspect of our behavior right so um that would be a big want ask of mine um however that's done i don't know but i'm sure somebody will come up with something is there any last tip or
• 20:30 - 21:00 anything else that you would like to share with the audience today i i think what i'd like to share is that no matter what tool you use uh keep in mind that if you go for the tool that requires the least set up the least amount of energy and planning to train teams provides you the opportunity to spend more time on the pi planning of
• 21:00 - 21:30 pi planning rather than on the preparation and therefore more contact with your teams and probably you'll get uh benefit in the end from the planning perfect i think that's a wonderful way to to end this session sabrina thank you so much for sharing your insights and your story and we wish you your teams and of course also a merry source all the best with and lots of success with your future plannings thank you
• 21:30 - 22:00 [Music] you