Plant Sap Measurements Webinar Part 2 with Nova Crop Control

Summary

In the second session of the Plant Sap Measurements Webinar, hosted by Resource Consulting Services Australia, attendees delve deeper into the realm of sap testing with insights from Nova Crop Control's Eric Hager. This session primarily examines the intricacies of nutrient uptake, the importance of balancing nutrients for optimal plant health, and how real-world factors like weather and soil conditions influence these processes. The conversation also covers the potential for sap analysis to inform better fertilization practices and enhance crop yields sustainably, particularly in sugarcane farming. Attendees explore the nuances of interpreting sap analysis results to make informed decisions that can potentially revolutionize traditional agricultural practices in challenging environments.

Highlights

• The webinar focused on nutrient uptake and its significance in crop management 🌱.
• Eric Hager explained the role of nutrient balance in plant health and disease resistance ⚖️.
• The discussion highlighted how environmental factors impact nutrient absorption 📊.
• Attendees learned the importance of sap testing for more strategic fertilization 💡.
• Future advancements in sap analysis could further transform agricultural practices 🚀.

Key Takeaways

• Sap testing is essential for understanding nutrient uptake in plants, which can improve crop management 🌾.
• Balancing nutrients is key to maintaining plant health and resistance to diseases 🛡️.
• Environmental conditions, like climate and soil health, play a significant role in nutrient uptake 🌦️.
• Regular sap analysis can inform more efficient fertilization strategies, enhancing crop yield sustainably 📈.
• Ongoing research and development are crucial for advancing plant health and optimizing agricultural practices 🔬.

Overview

This second session of the Plant Sap Measurements Webinar offered an exciting deep dive into the world of sap testing. Eric Hager from Nova Crop Control guided attendees through the importance of understanding nutrient uptake in plants. By examining the mobility and interaction of different nutrients, participants learned how to utilize sap testing to enhance crop management strategies effectively.

A significant part of the discussion was centered around the balance of nutrients within plants, a crucial factor in maintaining optimal plant health and preventing disease. Eric emphasized how a harmonious nutrient setup can help crops withstand environmental stressors and reduce susceptibility to pests and diseases. Attendees were particularly interested in how this concept could apply to their own practices, especially regarding sugarcane farming.

Environmental factors, such as weather and soil conditions, were also explored, with Eric illustrating how these elements impact nutrient uptake. The session underscored the importance of ongoing research and adaptation in agricultural practices. By leveraging the detailed insights gained from regular sap analysis, farmers can develop more strategic fertilization plans and ultimately boost sustainability and productivity in their fields.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:30: Introduction and Welcome The chapter introduces the participants to the second session of the SAP testing master class. It acknowledges Eric for accommodating the session timing, highlighting the coordination across different time zones. The speaker appreciates the attendance and notes the presence of Growers in Project Pathfinder, indicating a reunion of previous participants.
• 04:00 - 62:00: Presentation by Eric Hager The chapter titled 'Presentation by Eric Hager' includes a speech where Eric introduces members of the RCs team, including a seasoned teacher and advisor, Matt Barton. Matt has been associated with the RCs for over 15 years and hails from Duo. He has significantly contributed to the development of farming in his area. Eric acknowledges Matt's experience and involvement in their work, indicating Matt's importance to the team and highlighting his dedication to agricultural advancement.
• 62:00 - 64:00: Q&A Session The chapter titled 'Q&A Session' discusses a session held at a grazing for profit school. It features Terry McCosker, a well-known figure and the founder of RCs and Carbon Link. Known for his wisdom and reputation, Terry participates to share his insights. The session emphasizes the continuous learning process and highlights the exciting advancements in their field.
• 64:00 - 121:00: Sap Analysis Discussion The chapter titled 'Sap Analysis Discussion' focuses on discussions around sap testing and understanding crop conditions. The speaker introduces Megan, who plays a key role in coordinating webinars, online courses, grazing clinics, and business fundamentals. The session also acknowledges the presence of new team members, specifically mentioning Steven. It emphasizes the collaborative learning environment in place to understand agricultural practices better.
• 121:00 - 141:00: Sap Sampling Methodology This chapter introduces Stephen, an agronomist, who is collaborating with Ashley on a project. Stephen is the technical adviser who has been kept updated throughout the journey. The chapter sets the groundwork for understanding the roles and contributions of Stephen in the sap sampling methodology.
• 141:00 - 157:30: Final Discussion and Conclusion The chapter involves a final discussion and conclusion where various individuals, including John Turner, are mentioned. John, who is sitting next to Shay, is involved in a conversation. The dialogue seems to be informal and involves several participants discussing topics related to previous discussions.

Plant Sap Measurements Webinar Part 2 with Nova Crop Control Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 good afternoon everyone Thanks for again for coming back for session two of this uh sap testing master class and thanks Eric for getting up early to um meet up meet us on a Friday afternoon your Friday morning no problem um yeah and before I go any further I just like to introduce um there's a number of the The Growers in Project Pathfinder so good good to see the B back together again um
• 00:30 - 01:00 and your um illustrious teacher the guy the potato grow from the south Nick thanks for joining in i' just like to introduce a few others out of the RCs team um see Matt Barton is just put his camera on there Matt's uh he's been a teacher and advisor for RCs for uh I think back in must be nearly 15 years or more um Matt's from around Duo he um big part of developing our farming
• 01:00 - 01:30 and grazing for profit school so thanks Matt welcome aboard Terry mcosa most people would have heard of Terry Terry might put his um camera on in a minute Terry's their founder of RCs uh also the founder of carbon link um also also a really good bloke and uh and got lots of wisdom there so thanks Terry for joining in and yeah like all of us we're all learning here this um this is a exciting development in using
• 01:30 - 02:00 sap testing and the way that that NOA putting together to really understanding what's going on in our crop so yeah we're all we're all here to learn um who else have we got from the RCs team I introduced Megan last last week thanks again Megan for all that you do running this these webinars Megan does coordinate a lot of our online uh courses as well our grazing clinics and business fundamentals um I think there's a few other new faces so Stephen Steven Nu
• 02:00 - 02:30 you're you're an agronomist for for Ashley is that right Stephen yeah that's right uh Trevor yeah I've included him along this whole journey kept him very much up to speed uh because he's my technical adviser yeah great great actuallyy thanks for bringing stepen in welcome board stepen so certainly your inputs always always
• 02:30 - 03:00 valued uh another new name there is John Turner from uh John's from pharmacist I think good day John yes uh thanks Trevor um see if I can pick this one too yes yeah I'm uh sitting in a desk next to Shay so sh's involved me in some of this stuff oh you get the disc on
• 03:00 - 03:30 your own and Shay's got that Rabel out the back there she's a level above me okay now welcome John goodard um yeah and again welcome everyone um all the team uh there a lot more to go through here today and I think at the end of today's session we want to work out what do we do with this and how do we go ahead with that with our sampling program to learn as much as we can with the resources we have and and the time
• 03:30 - 04:00 we've got to uh to get to a point where I like to think at the end of this first crop cycle we've uh got the confidence to make some make some changes to uh you know to to how we grow our crops uh in the year in the year after and you know by the end of this program we got a lot more confidence to make some commercial decisions that'll that'll achieve some real outcomes to our for our business and for our production and for the uh re water
• 04:00 - 04:30 quality uh anyone any anything else anyone want to raise at this point before I turn Eric loose over to you Eric okay thank you well for the introduction uh for everybody who missed me on the first session I'm Eric Hager from Nova quop control uh I'm one of the consultants over here so I mainly give advice on uh
• 04:30 - 05:00 data or um the results we get from all the different samples uh from over the world and um yeah I'm uh excited to yeah to give this second session webinar as well as last week to uh give some better understanding of plab analysis and how that can help to improve uh your crop nutrition
• 05:00 - 05:30 decisions so I wanted to start first with a small uh recap on last week uh very short um because last week we discussed the theory behind nutrient uptake by the plant so we look to the mobility between the elements and transport of element between old and young leaves um I discussed the nutrient balance and the interactions in the plant so the
• 05:30 - 06:00 interactions or the antagonistic interactions between the catons and the anons and I showed a lot of different factors that can have influence on the nutrient uptake so think about pH weather uh Varity differences Etc and that theory are we going to use today uh in the interpretation of the analysis so I took the samples you sent to us uh which I'm going to use for the interpretation
• 06:00 - 06:30 and um after that we will discuss more on nutrition and plant Health uh and a part of it will be uh research and uh on PL Health what we do over here to find more the relation between plant sub analysis and plant Health again if there are any questions in between just put it on the on the chat box I'm also going to open that one right now to be sure that I don't miss the uh questions so there's time enough to ask questions so don't hesitate if there's something not clear
• 06:30 - 07:00 or you want to get um yeah that I explain something uh more clearly then just let me know um so yeah last week uh we started with the mobility uh so there are mobile and immobile minerals in the plant so uh for example magnesium phosphorus potassium and nitrogen those are mobile so on the moment not enough uptake by the plant uh
• 07:00 - 07:30 by transport through the roots then the growing parts so the younger Parts can take these nutrients out of the old leaves so from the old leaves it's going to be remobilized or ret transported to the younger parts so if you look for plant sub analysis in the case of magnesium phosphorus potassium and nitrogen you will first see a drop on the older leav and that's also mostly where the deficiency symptoms start first uh in the case of immobile mineral
• 07:30 - 08:00 like Boron calcium iron or sulfur uh the only way to get enough uptake is by good evaporation and good transport of these nutrients so if that's not the case so if there's not enough uptake um those younger Parts cannot take born calcium iron or sulfur out of the older leaves so if you look to plant sub analysis and you see might still good levels of calcium in the old leav it can still get too low in the young Le because there's
• 08:00 - 08:30 not enough transport so your young Le are done leading in this case um to check if there's enough uptake now the the second uh Team we discussed last week was uh the antagonistic interactions and I think the most important ones to always remember to always check with plant sub analysis are the cathon antagonism so the interaction between potassium calcium magnesium and sodium so for example if your pottassium uptake is
• 08:30 - 09:00 higher than the plant needs then it will limit the uptake of calcium magnesium and even sodium it works the same with the anons so if Glide would be too high then it would block the uptake of sulfur nitrate and phosphorus and in the case of the trace elements we see exactly the same so iron manganese zinc and copper when one of them is too high it will lead to a lower uptake of the other Trace elements the only Tre where we don't see antagonistic interaction are mum born and
• 09:00 - 09:30 silica and last part we discussed last week are the different factors that can influence the M uptake so for example the pH of the soil uh the imbalance in nutrients uh the soil type uh the plant stage or the age of the crop can definitely have influence on nutrient uptake release of fertilizers so the moment of application with one becomes available uh s structure and I think yeah climate so temperature light
• 09:30 - 10:00 intensity uh has a big factor on on nutrient uptake so uh that's what we discussed last week so that's basically the theory of um nutrient uptake and that is what we're going to use for the interpretation of the analysis um basically uh Mr F liik uh uh was already aware 200 years ago that the in dire actions in the plant and that if
• 10:00 - 10:30 one uh of if more than one element is in short supply then growth is determined by that one what is in the lowest Supply so the barrel uh is illustrating this concept and uh so already 200 years ago uh they knew that there are interactions and that if there's an imbalance in the plant that will affect basically the uptake of all the other nutrients um well now if we look to
• 10:30 - 11:00 uh our plap analysis report that we always start with the sugar levels uh then we show the ph and the EC of plap then we put the catons together so potassium calcium magnesium sodium and ammonium and we also show the potassium calcium ratio and um that's mainly interesting when rowing fruits because it tells a lot about the fruit quality but maybe a sugar can can also be an
• 11:00 - 11:30 indication of an unbalance between potassium and calcium that's something we have to to figure out um we have the anons where we have nitrate we have Anan nitrate and Anan nitrate is basically or it's exactly the same as nitrate but it's without the oxygen so this is NO3 and this is just the the pure n form and total nitrogen that is basically the total amount of uptake of all nitrogen form so in total nitrogen we measure uh Ammon
• 11:30 - 12:00 nitrate amino acids proteins and Ura that all together is what we call Total nitrogen yeah and then we have to trace elements uh together uh as as last on the report um on the moment there are Target values then uh basically we separated it in three different boxes where this would be the minimum Target value and this would be the maximum Target value so most so basically all levels need to get
• 12:00 - 12:30 within the target values and if it's below then it's too low if it's getting higher than the maximum Target value then it's too high and the young leaves are always showed with lighter green color and the older leaves are always showed with the darker green color uh but at this moment there are no target values yet for sugar cane so that's still something we need to develop um so you won't see all these different uh colored bars well basically if uh I get yeah um
• 12:30 - 13:00 just why we're talking about Target values might be worth is now a good time to have a conversation about that the target values and yeah um you know I know there are other labs that do have a Target value for cane um and they don't tell you what those values are they just tell you you know whether it's high or low what what um
• 13:00 - 13:30 how quickly does it take us to get a Target value what's what's involved and what's the disadvantage of not having it right here now the disadvantage is that you don't have uh a Target point so to you cannot check if some of the levels are too high or too low um so the only way to get more insight in that is testing unhealthy plants unhealthy plans because that mostly gives the first Insight in what the would be the optimum value and uh when it's too high or too
• 13:30 - 14:00 low uh but basically you you have already some or you can make already the first Target Valu if you have around 50 different samples uh so that could be a nice average to use um we use as a standard that we need at least 400 different uh samples from different plots different fields uh to make good Target values that's also for um statistic calculations that's the
• 14:00 - 14:30 minimum amount of samples you need uh but normally we say that around thousand samples then you know 100% sure that you have really good Target values but basically from 400 samples on uh it it it will be enough um we also show the target values with the actual numbers on our PL set report so we don't keep the target values for ourself um and that's also that that's also why we can't use Target values for model Labs because
• 14:30 - 15:00 everybody has his own way of measuring the the sap or the the tissue uh and um so the values are always different it's it's never going to be the same every lab does it in a different way so it's not that we can use Target values of other lab so we really need to develop that ourself but I think if you have around 100 samples I think that will give already a very good indication in what's going on uh or what would be uh some sort sort of optimum
• 15:00 - 15:30 value okay um so in until that um you know are we able to make draw any conclusions um yes you can um of course it's it's going to be more difficult to interpretated results so you're not 100% sure yet but I think this is also very important to especially because you compare different
• 15:30 - 16:00 fields with each other is that uh check the growth check the the color of the leaves uh check if you see any deficiency symptoms or uh maybe an an indication that there's an excess in the plant and and that gives you also already a good indication if if one of the crops might be better on the results than uh or one field would be better than other field so it's very important to in the first stage compare with each other and and compare with how the C
• 16:00 - 16:30 looks like and um yeah we had already I sent last week some yeah Target values based on 30 different samples so that's not much that's basically everything we have right now on sugar cane uh so that's the first step uh what what gives you already an indication in uh what would be around the the target values uh but I think you can quite yeah I think most important thing especially in the
• 16:30 - 17:00 beginning is send healthy and unhealthy leaves because that would give your first indication if uh or what eventually the target values are going to be okay and of course the other difference is uh that you um we sampling old and young leaves where not sure any other labs do um where do you see the you know how how much of an advantage is that no I think one of why it's also going to be useful
• 17:00 - 17:30 for the basically to build Target values is to take young and old Le is that uh and that comes back on the mobility of the the elements so if for example you see that with the old Le potassium is going below the young leaves that's the first indication potassium is getting too low so if you see that your potassium is uh lower on the old leaves than the young leav then you know already okay then the most probably the target values have to be a little bit higher because the the old
• 17:30 - 18:00 leaves are getting to low because B basically mainly there's going to be a higher uptake or higher build up in the older leaves then it's going to be in the young leaves um uh the the biggest question and that that's all we get that question a lot because yeah if you take young and old leaves that are two different uh samples so that that increases the cost of sampling but if you would just take the middle leave then if you get deficiency uh on the old leaves uh you
• 18:00 - 18:30 might not going to see it on the middle Leaf because there the levels might be still higher than it is on the old leaves and the other case if it's with calcium for example then in the middle Leaf the calcium is might still might still be good but on the young leaves it's too low so you you never get uh basically average everything out from The Young and the old Le so then you still not get the best indication and what's happening in the plan and how the transport of neutrons are okay thank you
• 18:30 - 19:00 think there's another question there from Nick yeah I saw that have you any evidence of plants living uh in an an element Rich environment having an inbuilt intelligence to avoid excessive upake of that particular element [Music] um yeah B basically yes we we see very clearly that if you have a soil uh being healthy uh uh then uh
• 19:00 - 19:30 plants can choose more by themselves uh what they need uh and how the uptake is going to be uh especially because all the micronutrients make all the micro uh or the biology makes the uh especially the most difficult elements better and uptake and uh that balance everything better out in the plant so we definitely see on very healthy soils that uh nutrient uptake is more in a good balance then we then on a soil Weare um
• 19:30 - 20:00 uh which is not not healthy enough uh but still if there's if there's one element very uh uh High On That soil then you can definitely expect even though levels or the soil is for the rest very healthy you can expect a higher uptake because it's just more available for the plant so the plant is going to take it up and that's maybe not directly the case with uh calcium or magnesium but Elements which are very
• 20:00 - 20:30 easy in uptake like potassium or or nitrate those yeah you can you can also expect a much higher uptake of those the only thing is that in the case of nitrate uh you're going to see that even though there's there's a too high uptake that the plant converts it better into proteins so that can still or that still keeps the plant a little bit healthier than uh that that nitrate would build up as well but definitely if you get a
• 20:30 - 21:00 healthy soil uh it's going to lead to more balance in the plant 100% And we see that in a lot of different cases where uh a a healthy soil definitely helps uh a more balanced uptake but it depends also on the crops uh on on yeah what what is a healthy soil of course and uh to give an example we we have some Growers Focus focusing on getting more organic metal in the
• 21:00 - 21:30 soil but more organic metal brings also more potassium and for some crops you don't want to have too high potassium so yeah that that's a little bit the case it is always searching for the optimum balance and and also in the soil there there have to be differences or uh different availability uh what suits that type of crop because every crop has a different need so also the soil needs to be different for that but as long if it's
• 21:30 - 22:00 healthy then it's definitely going to help more balance uptake um is it not important we understand maturity stage of crop at sampling yeah I'm not sure yet if that's going to be uh very important yeah I do expect that if if the crub is very low you might going to find lower nutron uptake uh so that the actual levels might start a little bit lower that you would see later in the in the season uh but
• 22:00 - 22:30 basically yeah we get this question quite a lot because on a lot of different crops uh you would expect that level start to change but uh overall we see that still the average level or the average Target value stays the same over the season for most uh elements so we see on some crops that for example like calcium or magnesium builds up throughout the season um but for all the other elements the
• 22:30 - 23:00 the need of the plant stays exactly the same so even if it's a young prop or a very old crop uh the need of zinc of the need of born stays the same and that the measurement if you did it over the All Season also stays the same so um but it's also something yeah we need to figure out and if there are differences in uptake throughout the season and you could might expect that especially on uh an element like calcium or magnesium
• 23:00 - 23:30 that there might be some more buildup over the season uh but in the case of a potassium or nitrogen that that stays the same over the whole season um yeah so basically when I when I get the first results back uh and I start inating the analysis um I I always start with yeah which elements are high which are low uh
• 23:30 - 24:00 do I see deficiency levels or excess levels um going to check the nutrient uptake difference between young and old Le because it tells me something about the mobility uh I'm going to check now next thing what I'm going to check is the interaction between the catons and the anion and if I still don't have an answer why any of the nutrients are too high or too low I'm going to check what the influence is or what might have been the influence on the nutrient uptake so like climate you see uh pH of the soil
• 24:00 - 24:30 soil life uh Etc so what I'm going to do next normally I discuss an example of uh or plant some example but in this case I'm going to use the samples you guys sent to us um uh one month ago and I will just discuss what I'm seeing uh and definitely uh interrupt if you see something else I'm might going to ask
• 24:30 - 25:00 questions because I don't know everything about the different uh uh plots but I'm just going to explain uh what I'm seeing and what that might tells about uh the qu and it always starts with suar and I'm wait I'm just going to make it English because Dutch is maybe the difficult for now um thank you so yeah well otherwise you learn a little bit Dutch but I don't think
• 25:00 - 25:30 that's going to be necessary now so basically the the pl cell analysis start with sugar and in in this case because we don't have Target Val the question is going to be yeah what is a good level of sugar uh what would be to high sugar what would be to low sugar um I think it's important that um or mostly the higher the sugars the better because sugars are an indication of photosynthesis so the better the photosynthesis is to more production of sugars so you can expect higher sugars
• 25:30 - 26:00 on a battlefield where where there's more photosynthesis and if it look down to uh the three different samples which have been sent and um then the the Red Cross that's um Redford the and the old leash so I made a no that's the young leaves in this case so the cross are the young leaves and the dot that are the
• 26:00 - 26:30 old leaves and uh the green color is uh bad and the blue color is uh briefy and so we see that on uh bread FR we measure the highest amount of sugars uh it's not far away from uh from bad but definitely there's a difference with uh brief fees where the sugars are much lower the question is going to be yeah what what are good sugars uh I
• 26:30 - 27:00 would say the higher the sugars the better there's one thing to be aware of and I can imagine uh in in the region uh you're growing uh that can be an issue is that the dryer it is the so the more concentrated basically if if a crop is lacking water uptake uh you can also measure higher sugars because if there's a lack of water uptake the leav dry a little bit out and because of that the sugars are
• 27:00 - 27:30 more concentrated because the more water in the sap the more dilutes the sugars so the um the more dried out the leaves are the higher the sugars so but in this case I don't think that's the case over here but yeah I don't know what are what are good sugar levels yet but the only difference we see right now is that Bradford showing the the highest sugars up sugar put uction um then we get pH of plant sa
• 27:30 - 28:00 yeah there is no optimum pH for every crop so in a lot of uh scientific studies there they mention that there's an optimum pH for every crop so that's that would be around 6.3 is what we often read but that's not true because every crop has his own optimum pH so in this case it seems to be that the sugar cane would be around six but for example a tomato is around
• 28:00 - 28:30 4.7 cucumber is around seven and aloe vera is even about around 3.5 so every crop has his own optimum pH uh and that's always different uh so in this case the pH for sugar cane will be eventually somewhere around six um if you see a big difference on ph compared to so if you take more samples and you suddenly see that the pH is going up or is going down yeah there could be an
• 28:30 - 29:00 indication that something is changing in the crop so that uh one of the nutrients is getting higher or lower an uptake uh or that there's another stress factor which uh changes the pH normally so on most case in most cases we don't see any difference on ph so the pH is quite stable over the whole season but that's something we need to figure out uh when we have more samples uh e see what we see over here is that's around the same so for all the
• 29:00 - 29:30 different fields the amount of nutrient uptake is around the same uh so there's not a big difference between the different fuels um but you see is eventually going to be interesting because if you see that the EC is start going down yeah it could be an indication that there's not enough Neutron uptake uh and with less Neutron uptake yeah the EC is going to go down because that's the electric conductivity so it indicates basically the nutrient
• 29:30 - 30:00 uptake and if it's getting too high um yeah that could be indic that could happen in the case leaves are dried out because that's the same story again with less water content then the EC goes up or otherwise the plant is taking too much nutrients up uh for example we see when potassium uptake is getting to high then mostly the EC also starts to increase so thec can also be an indication that there's an imbalance in the plant so when it's still low or when it's too
• 30:00 - 30:30 high um potassium and this the first interesting uh element where we really see a difference between the the three plots uh and especially on the older leaves so we see at Bradford a much lower potassium uptake compared to uh bat for example and the difference is almost so the double amount so we go from 2,000 in the old Le to uh almost 4,000 in the Le for for B so that's a
• 30:30 - 31:00 very big difference between these two Fields the question is going to be is um wford then way too low so if this maybe this is already close to a deficiency uh level and my first thoughts on this are and and that's why we say you need to sample young and old Le because you see that the young and old Le in the case of B are very close to each other and that's the same for the brief fees you
• 31:00 - 31:30 see old and young leaves quite close to each other but if we then check the Bradford then we see the young leaves much higher than the old leaves and as explained before with the mobility uh if uptake of potassium is getting too low then the young leaves going to take potassium out of the old leaves and that's what we're seeing right here so we see the young sorry the old Lees much lower than the young leaves and that's for me an indication the potassium up is too low and if I check the the the
• 31:30 - 32:00 actual Target values what we have made from those 30 different samples then we see that the minimum Target value starts around 3,000 so even though we haven't built up much data yet but just by comparing these three Fields my first thought would be that potassium is definitely too low and close to deficiency on the Bradford I'm not sure um if that was also the case did did you
• 32:00 - 32:30 saw uh potassium deficiency or deficiency symptoms on this field just in there while you're having a drink Eric uh Paul Rogers is asking a question there you're talking young and old leaves but what stage is this crop at um wasn't it just before Harvest
• 32:30 - 33:00 Trevor yeah but um would you like to just I might ask sh just to describe the three crops these are these are the pictures I got from the moment they took the samples so for your indication yeah Jason was about to be Harvest today in the next couple weeks this but it's still growing in my in my that cane is still actually growing and they're all plant cane
• 33:00 - 33:30 no so um how many PL which are plant crops and which are first returns so two two of them a PL came Bradford and B and mine's first return Bri's first return sorry okay so yeah so fairly young planted or young returns and they're all close to maturity would you say um yeah yes
• 33:30 - 34:00 yeah close Eric do you have or does no have classifications o of sampling crop stages I.E emergence tillering mature do do you have definitive crop stages that they you slot your samples into um yes um but I think I need to check what that's going to be for sugar cane because in every crop that can be
• 34:00 - 34:30 different um but uh basically yeah it could be useful to to to um specify that out what what would be the different moments of sampling how would you use that would you develop different Target um ranges for the different stages no no basically not so the or that that's basically what we see in in
• 34:30 - 35:00 other crops and and most of the data is that uh the actual Target level stay the same even though the need of the plant starts to change the the the the uh Val it has to be in the plant needs to be the same if you compare it with us as human if we uh we need around 2,000 uh uh kilo calorie of of food every day uh and it doesn't really
• 35:00 - 35:30 matter in what way what way we eat it or if we sport we maybe lead a little bit more but uh the actual need in the plant stays the same so maybe on some point there's going to be a higher need of pottassium and that's mostly why you see the plant starts to take more potassium up or the the the input of pottassium needs to go up uh but the need in the plant so the target's going to stay the same so it's not that the target changes over time that that's really that stays the the same over the whole season it
• 35:30 - 36:00 just can be but that's the same again uh if you look to calcium or magnesium there might be a buildup over the season uh but again uh you will see that the actual need of the plant is the same but you just see a further buildup in the plant but um it's not that the target values will go up as well and like I see in what I see in this
• 36:00 - 36:30 case yeah I'm I'm now already 100% sure that that the potassium is too low in the old leaves of the of the bread for just by checking The Young and the old leaves and by comparing that with uh the other two Fields the other thing is what gives me another indication if when I when I check the the sodium uptake um I also see that there's a much higher uptake of sodium and one of the things always happens when potassium is getting too low then there's a higher or
• 36:30 - 37:00 there's more room for sodium so there's an easier sodium uptake because it's less blocked by the potassium and that's what we see over here as well so the sodium uptake is much higher and I got so samples uh from the different fields and even though most of the soil samples were different from each other but I saw I didn't saw a big difference on on sodium so that's also an indication for me that most probably the potassium is too low because there's only a much
• 37:00 - 37:30 higher sodium uptake and that comes back to those antagonistic interactions so if one of them is getting too low in this case it's going to give more room for another nutrend and uptake and in this case we see that with sodium that that's going up in the plant and that's typically we some we see also in in other different crops and I get one question is the cane uh with the low potassium the one with low sugars uh no it's even the one with
• 37:30 - 38:00 the with the highest sugars no on the old Le it's yes it's the lower sugars so in the case of the old Le we see the lower sugars uh there where we see also the lowest potassium uh will low high soil moist levels affect plant element uptake uh yes it will definitely do so so [Music]
• 38:00 - 38:30 uh the moister has a big influence on the uptake and um it depends on how moist through it is and uh for example when you get a lot of rain you see that some elements start to wash out where others going to be better available or maybe less available so there's definitely a difference in uptake when uh uh when a when a soil is more or less moisture yeah you can expect differences
• 38:30 - 39:00 um yeah in the case of calcium there we see that the actual uptake is around the same so for the young leaves uh there's hardly any difference only the at bad there we see that in the old leaves the uptake is less than than the other two fields and if we go back to uh potassium then we see that bat is having the highest uptake of
• 39:00 - 39:30 potassium so and that comes back on those antagonistic interactions again so in this case the bat is having the highest potassium uptake so the higher the potassium is the more it blocks other nutrients like in this case calcium so if you look to those three dots then we see that the bat in the old on the old Le is having the lowest uptake and I think that could come because of the highest amount of potassium so so that's why and how we can develop quite fast already some
• 39:30 - 40:00 Target values uh is because we see already those antagonistic interactions and we see that uh on a certain level of potassium we see a less uptake of a calcium or magnesium or or sodium so then we know already okay that is going then that might most probably is on the high side of the target values or even above the target values so here you really see those those antagonistic interactions between potassium and and calcium [Music] um I got another question is the sodium
• 40:00 - 40:30 in septes related to sodium in the soil uh yeah not directly uh so you can be the soil can be very high on sodium uh without that there's a high uptake uh but the so can also be high on sodium with a high uptake and so it depends a little bit on how much water does the plant take up so the more water up take mostly the more sodium comes into the plant as well so with a lot of R you can expect higher sodium uh otherwise with
• 40:30 - 41:00 uh like we saw over here that if potassium is uh too low an uptake then there's more room for in this case sodium uptake so you just see that the sodium levels are going up uh because of the lower potassium uptake so that are things to be aware of uh yeah how would you buffer the high sodium yeah that's difficult uh we we tested it on on especially on on
• 41:00 - 41:30 greenhous crops we have tested that that if you get your for example your potassium on a certain level that it's low but not too low that it would influence the fruit quality or that it influence the the the health of the crub then that gives more room for sodium so we see a a higher sodium uptake by the plant and because in for example in tomato they they pick the Le every week so uh uh basically that's how you buffer the sodium away so you make the plan to
• 41:30 - 42:00 take the the sodium up and by cutting the leaves you take the sodium away but that that's only possible in in Greenhouse crops uh but on on on soil that that uh open field that's difficult uh it's very hard to get sodium uh basically out of the soil but the only way what you could do is by using uh humic acid or F oric acid to get it uh more fixed to the soil so that it's less
• 42:00 - 42:30 available for the plant but yeah carbon I see the one question again is is would carbon do in it do it yeah I think it can help to further fix it and to make it uh basically the healthier the soil uh the more the the the roots uh or the plant can choose by itself what it wants in uptake and the more stressed the plant or the more unbalanced the soil is the the Yeah the
• 42:30 - 43:00 more sodium can get in on the momentary stress and having other nutrients in a good balance in the plant because we see already that with the two low potassium uptake it leads to a higher sodium uptake and that's basically not good for the heal of the plant so we see that the potassium is to low that might causing deficiency uh symptoms but the high sodium also gives stress so that's an extra negative factor in this case for
• 43:00 - 43:30 for the plant um one question sugar cane traditionally is fertilized in one uh application anally followed by irrigation and then uh 1200 mm of more of rainfall most often these rainfall events can be as much as 300 mm or more uh devising target vs at this early stage are we not just getting an average of a nutrient inefficient growing
• 43:30 - 44:00 practice uh yeah so so you think that the rainfall influences that much the N up take [Music] um that the target values are not going to tell us that much now I I think the target vales will tell you something because you most probably going to see that with a rain event some nutrients going to be higher
• 44:00 - 44:30 in uptake and that that's going to get higher uh than the plan eventually needs and um being aware of those rain events what what you can have over there yeah that also and seeing what how the nutrient uptake is going to be um that helps you to further optimize the the fertilization uh to prevent that certain levels get too high or too low after a rain event so I think it's still useful
• 44:30 - 45:00 basically so Eric leading on from that mhm as we take sap sampling and I and I think this is what Paul's getting at yeah we should be taking sap sampling prior to our traditional fertilizer application methods y not y that we and we should be sap sampling in conjunction with application of nutrient as per the samples not sap sampling in conjunction
• 45:00 - 45:30 with our traditional uh fertilizer application methods no no eventually you need to see what the levels are in the plant and based on that um you're going to adjust your fertilization on on what you see in the plant that that's the biggest use or the biggest advantage of using plant sub analysis is that you before you start fertilize the the field uh you check your PL sub analysis to to what the real need of the plant is so
• 45:30 - 46:00 now you just bring what you're used to or what you did over the last couple of years or what they have advised but now with plant sub analysis or you can check if the plant really needs it and if it doesn't need it you don't need to apply it or maybe something else is is more necessary to bring with the fertilization and that needs to be then uh your main focus and that that's a little bit uh what I
• 46:00 - 46:30 want to point out as well with plant of analysis so you you did your soil samples but the soil samples give first of all very good indication on on how the nutrient uptake eventually is going to be but you also see that uh even with high levels in the soil you can still have a low uptake or the other way around if something is low available in the soil it can still be good in the plant because it all depends on the different factors in how the plant takes it nutrients up um and uh eventually uh
• 46:30 - 47:00 low levels can still lead to a good uptake or the other way around High uptake can lead to a low uptake in the plant because all those different factors influencing it actually I had a thought that the approach would be uh at least you know in in this initial year um and on a small scale that actually there would be a a strip in a might you might pick a field and and pick a strip in that field and
• 47:00 - 47:30 actually either have just put on have your normal rate or or you know significantly less than what you normally put on and and intensively sample that and and then respond to the to what we see as far as the S test goes and and perhaps even compare that with your with your conventional practice yeah yeah I understand Trevor and I suppose there's a plethora of options on how you uh test in conjunction with the our traditional
• 47:30 - 48:00 inefficient fertilizer practices but yeah my um system that I've developed is yeah pick out a couple of paddocks to be sap sampling and applying nutrient as per the sap sampling uh to totally separate from our traditional methods yeah I agree y
• 48:00 - 48:30 when in the future Eric when your target levels are established will there be a requirement for old and young leaves testing you mean that there's going to be different Target values for the old and the young leaves yeah is the requirement for taking an old Lea sample and a young leaf sample to a established Target values and and when in the future
• 48:30 - 49:00 you have established Target values with sufficient samples yeah basically only require the one Le sample not old and young no we requireed the no it can be one Le sample but we basically we use the old and the young leaves because the program we have does look to those interactions to the old and the young Le and that comes a little bit back on those um antagonistic interactions like we saw already with potassium is that uh
• 49:00 - 49:30 basically on the old leaves we saw too low uptake where the young leaves are still good so uh basically this program also it doesn't the program doesn't look to the average level it also looks to the to to the median of all samples and based on that based on the mobility and anistic interactions it can calculate what would be the optimum values and uh that's why taking old and young leaves are is also more useful for uh making
• 49:30 - 50:00 good Target values because it's gives a better indication and what's basically happening happening in the plant and what would be the actual need of the plant and also the other thing is that with developing the target values it's not only a program what we use but also like the interactions we do right now or what we observe in the data helps us to further optimize those Target values so
• 50:00 - 50:30 by just having this this discussion um my first thoughts already are and we only have six samples it's already very clear for me that uh I think that potassium on this level is too low because I'm just seeing the difference between the old and the young leaves uh and checking down the mobility and checking the antagonistic interactions that gives me already an answer on that uh potassium in this case is too low even though I have no idea
• 50:30 - 51:00 what the target value is going to be um just by knowing that with Mobility if there's not enough uptake then young leaves take it out of the old leavf so the young leaves stay on a stay on a good level but the old leaves start to drop yeah then I see already the old leaves are to low in this case so most probably the potassium minimum level is going to be somewhere around here and that's just by looking to these
• 51:00 - 51:30 six different samples and most probably by by having more different samples over time you will see that uh it will most probably be around this range and that if it's getting too low that you see directly an interaction with other nutrients in the plant like in this case the sodium which Pikes up in the plant because of the low potassium so that's why I think even though we need 400 different samples to make good
• 51:30 - 52:00 Target values I think with with interaction uh with with you guys uh and also just checking the data and comparing the different uh neutrons with each other that gives already a very good indication in what the actual levels need to be eventually I guess the other I mean going back to the growth stages these three crops are clearly in the the sugar accumulation stage um and understanding
• 52:00 - 52:30 what's important for sugar accumulation like do we is it possible that PO potassium doesn't matter so much or sugar accumulation we don't need to worry about it at that stage or not sure not sure eventually you need potassium to also enough to produce sugars and to transport sugars and at the same with phosphorus if your phosphorus is too low then uh sugars are not uh transport it good enough to the places where it needs
• 52:30 - 53:00 so basically uh those nutrients still have to be in an Optimum balance otherwise there's going to be less sugar production and that's the same with other nutrients like calcium or magnesium uh or like iron if those levels are too low yellow of the leaves start to turn yellow and more yellowing leaves uh it gives less photosynthesis is less sugar production so basically every is important eventually for the sugar uh
• 53:00 - 53:30 production and uh but also for the health of the plant because um an unbalance in the plant can also make a plant more sensitive for fungi or insect pressure and that's also not what you want so it's not only for the sugar production but it's also for the health of the plant where it's going to be or what's going to be important Al I guess the next Plant as well after it's harvested the these these crops are to return can I just ask the farmer Jason how'd you go
• 53:30 - 54:00 with the sugar ccs of that field yeah Trevor hello um that block hasn't been cut yet um I can't answer that question however um that particular crop is a is probably a good crop of kind it's it's uh it's probably around 100 ton hectare it's still uh uh in a large part upright I would suggest that it will be a reasonably high sugar
• 54:00 - 54:30 yielding block now let's [Music] see and that that's the next thing we eventually what you have to check because it's not all um so even if one element in the plant is too low it doesn't have to mean that because of that production is going to be less or more uh other nutrients are important
• 54:30 - 55:00 and in this case I think to nitrogen also gives a good indication if we look to production total nitrogen uh is going to be important and I don't know if you know any differences already on production between the three different fields but we also see differences uh so the brief fees is with total nitrogen much lower than the other two Fields so and interestingly there's a very big difference between old and young leaves
• 55:00 - 55:30 so that again can some can tell something about the the transport of in this case the nitrogen uh but it's also important to to look to other nutrients uh if we base it on on production and amount of sugars uh yeah if we go further than basically uh we get to magnesium and
• 55:30 - 56:00 there we see in this case that the wetf is showing the highest magnesium uptake compared to the uh brief fees where we see the lowest uh uptake um yeah here it's more difficult to see what would be the optimum value uh overall most are very close to each other and there's just one spiking out so that's the the radf so it might be that that one is on the on the higher side uh I don't know how it is in this
• 56:00 - 56:30 in the soil if it's also higher over there uh but it could definitely be uh possible that that's better available because of that there's a there's a higher uptake I don't know if that one was um oh what's that one with yeah might be see and this comes back to the antagonistic interaction because we see the lowest uptake uh potassium and with bread for and if we look down to magnesium then we see
• 56:30 - 57:00 the highest uptake so that perfectly explains those antagonistic interactions again so if there's a higher uh uptake or in this case a lower uptake of potassium that gives more room for other element like magnesium but it can also be the case that because of high magnesium availability in the soil there's a higher magnesium uptake and that is blocking the pottassium uptake so I think these six samples show already or
• 57:00 - 57:30 these three different fields show already perfectly those antagonistic interactions and uh where eventually the optimum levels need to be and then the sodium yeah I explained that one already the low uh potassium mostly leads to a higher sodium uptake now that's what we see here as well uh so the the bread for is much higher on sodium uh compared to the the other two
• 57:30 - 58:00 Fields yeah and then ammonium um ammonium is basically or basically needs to be as low as possible if the plant takes a nitrate or ammonium up or Ura whatever it it needs to convert it into proteins so also with nitrate uptake it needs to be converted first from ammonium to nitrate and sorry from nitrate to ammonium and from ammonium it goes to proteins so the higher we measure ammonium The more stress
• 58:00 - 58:30 basically in the plant so the more it indicates that that conversion of those different nitrogen forms uh to uh proteins and amino acids is being affected by some sort of stress in the plant so the higher we find the ammonium uh the worst for the health of the plant um one thing you need to be aware of is that uh the only element what is really affected by the transport time of the package so from Australia to the
• 58:30 - 59:00 Netherlands is is ammonium because at the moment you you pick the leaves the rotten process starts so uh the longer it is on transport the more rotten the leaves will be and the higher the ammonium levels so I'm always a little bit careful with um yeah giving my feedback on ammonium because it could have been influenced by the uh transport time uh but basically the lower the levels the better because the lower the better the conversion of
• 59:00 - 59:30 all the different uh nitrogen forms into proteins and amino acids and that's basically exactly the same for for nitrate also that one the lower the better but I think in this case just checking the amount of nitrate we measure in sugar cane which is uh almost nothing uh I think nitrate is not that important to check with plant analysis I think you need to more look more to ammonium and to the total nitrogen
• 59:30 - 60:00 because 30 PPM is basically nothing so I think total nitrogen is more important yeah total nitrogen mostly indicates something of or tells something about the growth of the plant basically the higher the total nitrogen the more vegetative the growth is so the stronger the growth and the lower the total nitrogen the Yeah the more generative the growth is so the the slower the growth is so if total nitrogen is getting too low then that
• 60:00 - 60:30 will stop the growth if it's getting too high you get a very um uh big uh yeah basically a big plant strong growth uh and more attractive for insects and fungi diseases because somewhere is a maximum level and if you cross that line you know that your plans are going to be more interesting for insects and fungi diseases because basically when the plant takes all the
• 60:30 - 61:00 different nitrogen forms up um the total nitrogen comes also with water uptake so the higher the nitrogen is the higher the water uptake normally that also makes that that vestive strong growth so the higher the water content in the plant uh the easier insects can get uh sap out of the leaves what they need as food so the the the bigger the chance the the crop is going to be affected by insects and fungi diseases so total
• 61:00 - 61:30 nitrogen is going to be for for sugar cane an indication uh if plants are susceptible for insect or fungi diseases now it's hard to tell if if one of these levels are really too high or too low that's something you need to figure out and by comparing the different fields with each other but um this is going to be an important one to check over the first samples the uh to check the health of the plant basically and the growth of the
• 61:30 - 62:00 plant Eric this is a important one for the whole project um for a lot of reasons we pay a lot of money for nitrogen fertilizer um and a lot of it and we're trying to reduce the amount of nitrogen in the waterways yeah um and we put typically due to Logistics we put it all on at once early in the growing season what is that likely to have a and the reason why we do that is we don't want it to run out um by by the
• 62:00 - 62:30 end of the crop cycle when we can't actually access the field uh does it work does it work like that in reality is it likely that it'll take up a lot more in that vegetative stage and then and then it'll drop the levels will drop through the through the final stages and but stay in the Target values yeah we we definitely see in the beginning of the uh of uh in a lot of different crops we see a spike in in nitrogen uh and that's
• 62:30 - 63:00 not because the plant needs it on that moment but it's because it's high available in the soil because everybody uh puts those fertilizers in the beginning of the season on the quop exactly like you explained that then you can still access the quop uh so then is also High available and then there you see a spike in the plant uh that's mostly also so not good for the health of the plant so that that can give problems with insects of fungi diseases
• 63:00 - 63:30 um but basically that that would be something to check that with lower amount in at the start uh what will happen at the end of the season will that lead or will that stay the same in the pl uh will that be enough yeah that that for now that's difficult to say what what what what could be changed on that but uh definitely uh the the total night isn't going to give a good indication on that and especially by comparing the
• 63:30 - 64:00 different fields with each other and comparing with the amount of nitrogen they brought to the crops with the fertilization um Glide um yeah basically the plant doesn't need too much of it um yeah eventually we need to figure out what's going to be the optimum level uh mostly the lower the better because the lower the more it
• 64:00 - 64:30 will give room for phosphorus uptake sulfur uptake uh nitrogen uptake because Glide is mostly balanced in the plant so the higher the Glide the more balanced uh it is for for uh the plant giv stress and it blocks more other nutrient uptake uh so for uh important yeah Eric I noticed the target the in values um yeah the bottom of the range is for
• 64:30 - 65:00 chloride is 800 odd um and I think most of those other samples would have come from Florida um is that saying anything or uh yeah that the closer to the Sea the higher the the glow levels yeah okay you can expect higher glow when you're closer to the Sea so 100% well I think Florida is below sea level so I think any
• 65:00 - 65:30 different yeah but it's it's it's definitely possible that there's a difference on glide just by uh the area where you're growing okay and indeed on those Target vales of sent uh the range is between 900 and uh yeah say around 3,000 so that it would some be somewhere between here and and here so quite a wide range on glide so that also indicates that on samples we got so far there are big differences in glow uptake
• 65:30 - 66:00 okay thank you now sulfur is important for different processes in the plant uh important for for the nitrate conversion uh enzyme production so having enough sulfur is important yeah the all three are very close to each other so most probably the the and if I check the the sums we got so far then uh that would be within the the target range um but because of the small differences yeah it's hard to tell if uh
• 66:00 - 66:30 if one of them is really too if them if they are too high or too low but I I expect that the uptake is good but if because s for is most yeah it's more or less immobile so if there's a big difference in uptake that would indicate uh bad Transportation so the more close all the young leaves are to each other uh mostly the most the more close to the optimum value in the case of sulfur so I think in this case these levels are
• 66:30 - 67:00 good yeah phosphorus um quite a big difference between especially on the young leav between uh the the phosphorus uptake where the the bread f is high on phosphorus and the briefy is much lower on phosphorus yeah it's going to be interesting phosphorus is important for Hood growth so especially on the beginning uh of the season and more at the end it's important for sugar transport so you want to have your
• 67:00 - 67:30 phosphorus levels high enough but also not too high because if phosphorus is getting too high it can have a blocking effect on micronutrients like iron maganese and zinc so it might be that if we check the results of the micros that for example the RF would be lower on iron maganese and zinc because it has been blocked by phosphorus but in this moment it's not really clear yet if
• 67:30 - 68:00 um yeah what what would be the optimum phosphorus level so that that's also something we need to to figure out but we see already quite a difference between uh the uptake between the tree uh silica also here a wide difference in uptake where the uh bat showing the highest uptake and the brief is the lowest uptake now silic important for uh the health of the plant it helps with different processes in the plant what
• 68:00 - 68:30 promotes the health of the plant but it also helps calcium uptake so most normally the higher the silica levels the better um I in this case now the Bradford was showing the highest phosphorus levels and it doesn't seem to block the iron uptake because we see over here the highest uptake of iron uh at bredford um eventually the higher the iron the further away from iron deficiency uh I saw the pH of the S over
• 68:30 - 69:00 there it's not really high uh so for your iron uptake it doesn't have to be a very big problem I would say um so yeah eventually we need to figure out what what the optimum level needs to be the only thing is if in the case of iron deficiency then the young leaves that's the place where you start seeing the first symptoms of iron deficiency and over here the young leaves are all higher than the old leaves so that's for
• 69:00 - 69:30 me already a first indication that I on all of them is is high enough and manganese also here quite a big difference in uptake manganese can yeah that's the difficult one manganes can easily get deficient but it can also easily get uh into an excess so yeah eventually we need to figure out what would be the optimum level uh but it's interesting to see such a big difference in uptake between in this case the bat
• 69:30 - 70:00 and the the brief fees syn uh or all are around the same just the old leaves on the brief Fe showing the lowest levels now if zinc uptake is too low you're most probably going to see that on the overly or mostly on the middle part of the plant uh is is where the deficiency symptoms start but all these also an indication so it might be that the brief are a little bit too low on zinc in this
• 70:00 - 70:30 case yeah BN also over here we see big differences in in uptake uh but the actual born uptake is almost nothing because if I look to the amount of PPM yeah then it seems to be that sugar cane doesn't take a lot of BN up so not sure because the levels are that low uh I guess it's still quite close to each other
• 70:30 - 71:00 coer big difference on uh copper uptake on the old leaves where the Bradford is showing the lowest uptake yeah same story again not sure yet what would be the optimum value uh but it seems to be that the Bradford is is having a much lower uptake than the other two Fields then we LIF them um in this case Bradford is having the highest uptake of mum mum helps the conversion of uh
• 71:00 - 71:30 nitrate forms to proteins and amino acids so the higher the mum normally the better and there almost any uptake in the bries that's what we see right now uh and aluminium is not really important it's more as a stress indicator so if we suddenly see very high aluminium levels on a scub it's when it goes above the level of 10 PPM that's an indication
• 71:30 - 72:00 there there stress in the soil there's something going on uh but over here all levels are lower than that so that uh that won't be fine so basically yeah that were the results uh and that was a little bit interpretation on how I would look to the uh the first PL sub levels um I think even though we don't have Target values I I think we definitely saw where some inter interactions especially on the the main elements so calcium
• 72:00 - 72:30 potassium magnesium and sodium and uh by checking the difference between young and old Le and checking the antagonistic interactions yeah that will definitely tell already something about what would be the optimum value uh or the target value so um yeah that's what I want to say about these results any questions left on
• 72:30 - 73:00 that because otherwise we go further with the presentation so I'm going to go further with uh this one because we discussed it um now yeah we have our online program uh what is called bastic online eventually we're going to change the name because it's still a Dutch name to something more International uh but uh on this moment it's still B mesing online um yeah you can and that's basically
• 73:00 - 73:30 what I also showed with the grass we just discussed you will see your data over time so if you take more samples over the season you get these lines and you see how levels start to vary throughout the season and that's also going to be interesting then with the different stages of the cup if you see changes in update throughout the season so there's already an account for that uh what you eventually can use with with your data um yeah then the part nutrition and
• 73:30 - 74:00 plant health and um yeah that's definitely going to be interesting and eventually it is in that way that uh balanced fertilization leads to good plant health because plants under the right ground conditions and with a balanced nutrient uptake are resistant to diseases and pest so diseases and insects come when they have the right conditions and the right food source that they need so they choose eventually the sub able unhealthy plants for this so when we provide the plants with the right nutrition it's uh it is possible
• 74:00 - 74:30 for the plants to become resistant to the diseases and insects and an additional Advantage is that a balanced mineral uptake also has a positive effect on growth flour and fruit quality so everything what I'm going to explain now is not something we invented ourself no that's something we got from scientific studies uh what you can find you find whether so much information these days on the internet uh you can read it in in different books so
• 74:30 - 75:00 um yeah that's where we also got our knowledge from and of course with building up more data we can look more back into the database and compare unhealthy Fields with healthy fields for example U but nitrogen seems to be a very important factor imp plant Health now I explained before that we measured imp plant have as total nitrogen nitrate and ammonium and that total nitrogen is basically all the different
• 75:00 - 75:30 nitrogen forms together what we call totto nitrogen and um yeah in this case I I will explain it but it doesn't seem to be the case of sugar cane because normally if we can compare the amount of nitrate to Total nitrogen uh we see that depending on the grown conditions a plant can convert a certain amount of nitrate that the plant absorbs into proteins so when the plant absorbs more nitrate than it can actually convert to
• 75:30 - 76:00 proteins as suppl is created so sometimes we compare it as fat and humans so the more we eat but what we don't burn is what builds up as fat so and the plant it works exactly the same so if the plant gets more nitrate or maybe in your case we need to look more to ammonium so if there's a higher buildup of ammonium that's an indication that the plant is receiving too much of nitrate or ammonium uh but cannot convert it enough into protein so it's
• 76:00 - 76:30 built up as a surplus in the plant and uh that makes the plant mostly more interesting for uh or susceptible for insects and fungi diseases so we skip that one so for example if we look to uh plet result and we measure for example, 1500 PPM of nitrate then then we have the an out of nitrate is showing 339 that we can make a calculation
• 76:30 - 77:00 basically by looking to the ratio of nitrate compared to Total nitrogen and in this case it's 51% and we know from most props if the level gets above 50% then the plants are more uh susceptible for insects and fungi diseases now in your case we hardly measure any nitrate so this is not working for sugar cane in most crops it does so you need to I think in your case you need to look more
• 77:00 - 77:30 to the total nitrogen or to the ammonium but to give an example on this on how this works on a lot of different crops uh because maybe in this case uh we need to look more than to the ammonium levels but uh in this case there were cucumber crop with mil um so that we affected plants uh which we tested with plant sa not affected plants and there was a tolerant Varity against for MW which we tested as
• 77:30 - 78:00 well and if we look down to the plant set results then we saw that the affected plant was already lower on sugars and eventually the higher the total nitrogen the lower the or the higher the nitrate the lower the sugars because as explained before uh higher nitrate higher ammonium higher total nitrogen brings more water to the plant and that deludes the sugars so that's why in this case the affected plants
• 78:00 - 78:30 were lower on sugar um the not affected plant was a little bit higher not a big difference but a little bit higher and the tolerant Varity was much higher and if we land look to the nitrate uptake that we saw that the affected plants were showing 700 PPM not affected plant 550 and a tolerant Varity 380 so there's already a big difference on nitrate uptake uh interestingly if we then look to Total nitrogen then we see
• 78:30 - 79:00 that the levels between affected not affected and tolerant variety are almost the same so especially between the affected and the tolerant variety there's hardly any difference so if we would make that calculation so the 700 divided by the 1270 we get to 55% and if we then look to the not affected plant then you get to a lower level of 47 and a tolerance faity even to 30% so and that's where we often use this calculation for because the higher
• 79:00 - 79:30 the percentage the more sensitive for insects and fungi diseases and in the case of cucumber we know that if it goes above 50% then uh the pl is more susceptible for funga diseases like milu the other thing we saw is that there was a less manganes uptake and we know that manganese helps against fungi diseases same as what what copper does so the effect the plant was also lower on manganese so and much lower than the
• 79:30 - 80:00 tolerant Varity so checking this percentage uh is normally uh very important and interesting but and I think that's also the case uh for sugar cane um and what we see for example in apples as well that we don't measure or we hardly measure any nitrate because then the plan is directly converted to proteins so then you look more to Total nitrogen so if your total nitrogen is getting too high that would indicate that unhealthy plant uh which makes the
• 80:00 - 80:30 plant more susceptible for insects and fungi diseases so in your case we need to check more the total nitrogen and if it's getting too high then uh that can lead to more problems with insects and funga diseases um and that would also be interesting um to uh uh check on the first uh samples or maybe if you having
• 80:30 - 81:00 uh certain Fields where big insect pressure uh or funga disease and you have a part where there isn't a problem with insects or funga diseases yeah take samples of both plots compare them with each other and most probably you're going to see a big difference in nitrogen uptake and that will give you also the first indication of uh what would be two high levels of of nitrogen I see one of the comments that John Kemp also had a great reference uh that's in
• 81:00 - 81:30 the chat box and uh yeah that especially John Kemp has quite a lot of uh interesting articles uh some blogs and even some podcast where he explains really a lot about plant subanalysis and uh uh the interaction with plant health and plant sub analysis John Kemp also sent or the group also sends the samples to so we always Reed the samples from uh from from John
• 81:30 - 82:00 Kamp uh to explain something about sugar levels in the plant and and the nitrogen levels um this was a trial we did over here with uh where we changed the fertilization and in the beginning we had a very strong vegetative growing tomato plant so you see that over here very thick stem long leaves uh we changed the fertilization and the plant went more into generative uh tinel
• 82:00 - 82:30 leaves um if you check down the sugar content you saw that on the moment we changed that fertilization to uh more generative growing plant the sugar levels went up and that's especially that what was what I was indicating that the more water up take because basically the bigger growing plant contains more water the more dutes the sugars so that's why especially in the beginning we need to compare every time the sugar levels with the total nitrogen to see um how that
• 82:30 - 83:00 how the nitrogen affects the sugar levels now another example nitrate uh versus roses uh or versus milw in this case a Roses again uh with MW is the red bars and without MW are the blue bars and again we so if you compare healthy plants with unhealthy plants we saw higher nitrate levels and higher
• 83:00 - 83:30 nitrogen levels but we also s lower calcium and lower magnesium now calcium is important for the cell strength magnesium is important for green color of the leaves uh getting nitrate converted into proteins so you might see higher ammonium levels or higher nitrate levels when you are too low on magnesium because you need magnesium to get the nitrate and ammonium conver convered into proteins uh but also in this example the trace element uptake was lower and all that together leads to a
• 83:30 - 84:00 unhealthy plant and in this case to a problem with with mildew yeah and it's good to compare different varieties with each other because this is an example of strawberry two different varieties elsanta and the Sonata and the Sonata always having big problems with fofa and eventually when we look to the big data base and we took an average of uh all the the different
• 84:00 - 84:30 uh elements we saw that the the Sonata had an average lower uptake of 10 to 30% uh compared to the Alanta which indicates that basically because we know copper uh can help against fungi diseases and because this Verity does have more problems with a COO uptake it's more sensitive for the fofa so we started to advise these Growers to use more copper or to bring more copper to stimulate the uptake and um to prevent
• 84:30 - 85:00 that they get problems with fosta and it eventually worked yeah wether influence on Neutron uptake uh if the plant is having a lot of stress because of high humidity high temperatures 24 hours and high light intensity then um this is what you can expect in L analysis so you can expect very high levels of sugars in the young leaves and that's mainly because water
• 85:00 - 85:30 is not enough transported to the youngest parts so you see a higher concentration of sugars because less water in the in the leaves is higher concentration of sugars because it has been diluted less and you're going to see a big difference between The Young and the old leaves because uh if there's not enough water uptake there's not enough transport of nutrition as well for from the older parts to the younger parts and then you see a bigger difference in nutrient uptake between young and old leaves and it can even get
• 85:30 - 86:00 much higher on the old leaves because that's where the plant still takes a little bit of water and nutrients up but it stays in the older part because it just kind of get a transporter to the younger parts so it even builds up in the older part and that's what we see over here so a big difference between young and old leaves and if we check then a mobile element like pottassium then young leaves in this case are lower than the target values and the old leaves are much higher yeah we know that when potassium uh uptake isn't enough
• 86:00 - 86:30 because it's mobile the youngest younger leaves can always take potassium out of the older leaves so the moment so in this case because uh of the stress of the heat because of the light intensity and the temperature uh potassium cannot get transported to the younger parts so if you see young leaves lower than the target values and the old is much higher that's for me an indication the plan is having stress and cannot get water transported to the to the youngest
• 86:30 - 87:00 growing parts so this is always important to check uh if you see something in the results back like this then you know that plant is suffering on the moment uh then research we did on plant Health um so so basically when we started uh yeah it all started with the idea to get
• 87:00 - 87:30 more insight in the N uptake but with all the different customers and uh crops we got we also got more and more questions uh on the different results and on uh the hell of the plant so in 2018 we said we want to do more investigation or research on duation plant Health uh versus plant sa so we build own trial location to do different test uh related to plant Health now one
• 87:30 - 88:00 year later we started with our own R&D team so we have four at this moment even five already five different researchers only doing the trials the week to find more the relation between plant health and plant sub analysis now when we uh move to a new facility we also built three climate Chambers so indoor climate Cham so now we can even do uh trials the whole year around so uh yeah we're putting more and
• 88:00 - 88:30 more focus on getting more insight in plant health and uh eventually we hope that with that knowledge we're building up that uh we can figure out that how to prevent certain problems of insects or fungi diseases in the plant so yeah I explained this one already but to give an example like how easy a test could be is for example on wheat so we
• 88:30 - 89:00 had uh and I go already to this one so we have or had for different treatments from almost no nitr input to higher nitr input even higher nitr input and uh yeah the highest amount of nitrate inut and as you expect the more nitrate you bling to the plants the higher or the bigger the plants will grow now we affected
• 89:00 - 89:30 these plants with aits so with the same amount of AIT on every treatment and we wanted to see how do those aits develop over time so um see which of the which of these plants would be most healthy or would prevent the highest reproduction of of aits and then as exactly like you would expect the higher the amount of nitrate in the plant the more the aphids could reproduce and the higher the amount of
• 89:30 - 90:00 aphids we found back so that gave for us also the confirmation that too high nitrate makes your plants more sensitive for insects and fungi diseases or too high toon nitrogen in your case so but the question is yeah this is also not the plant what you want so maybe you find the lowest amount of apids over here but this is definitely another PL plant you want to see on your field and maybe this one um as well because it's
• 90:00 - 90:30 still too small so it maybe it has to be somewhere in between but yeah the next step is then so okay if we see that um the amount of nitrate for example needs to be somewhere in between but uh yeah how can we still get the level of 8 fits down so that's one of the new trials then so uh changing the fertilization further by bring for example more magnesium or bringing more sulfur or
• 90:30 - 91:00 bringing more maganese so see if we can change something on fertilization and in PL uptake to affect the conversion of nitrate uh and to make the plants less susceptible to the insects like in this case the the aits and the other thing is that if we do uh uh a trial for example like this one uh we don't do it just once we do this trial three to four times because every time we want to get the same results because and eventually
• 91:00 - 91:30 if we do this so for example in this test with the read we saw that for example when we tested the 2 and a half minimal treatment on the second P we suddenly saw much more aits and like in with the five M of nitrate we saw in this third test suddenly much higher amount of aits after the test where we would expect every time the same results and that's now the interesting part to where we use
• 91:30 - 92:00 the pl sub analysis to see yeah what were the differences was maybe one of the elements uh on this Tri lower or higher which made the plan in that case more uh susceptible for the aits um but one of the biggest problems always with doing trials and uh with uh get good results is that eventually you work with living plants and you work with living animals so in the moment we bring for example 20 apids on the plant
• 92:00 - 92:30 we don't know if these apids are already pregnant and that's one of the biggest problems that basically with every every insect so in the moment we put 20 aphids on on this trial but maybe five of them are already pregnant because they reproduce very fast yeah then it can affect the results and that's something yeah we're now further optimizing it to figure out if we uh get more insight in that as well so that we get more stable results
• 92:30 - 93:00 because eventually if that would be the case on the third uh trial then that would be the reason that there's only a much higher reproduction of aits that's the same when we do for example trial or or mue uh yeah we work with over 10 th 10,000 spores of MW so we we cannot count them because 10,000 spores are just too much and too little to see with our eyes so there's always a chance that it would affect the results but this is
• 93:00 - 93:30 also an example of one of the trials we're doing right now or where we started with in 2020 but it's still ongoing is that we knew from in in the case of tomato that there are certain cultivar or varieties very sensitive for mildew and that are varities not sensitive for meu for MW so we basically put them on the same uh conditions same fertilization same conditions everything was basically the same uh we took uh leaves of the
• 93:30 - 94:00 different varieties and affected it with milu and then exactly as expected the most sensitive varities were showing the most amount of spores after two weeks after affection and the not sensitive varities showed uh eventually less uh affection of the mil and then the interesting part comes because then we
• 94:00 - 94:30 can because we also test those leaves on plant yes has to figure out okay what's the difference then between a very sensitive uh Varity and a not sensitive Varity is it copper or is it manganese or is it a combination between or ratio between for example iron or manganese or maybe magnesium and nitrogen and that's something we uh investigating and uh we hope to find more answers on because if we can find that answer yeah then we can help
• 94:30 - 95:00 Growers we're having problems with milu to make better decisions on fertilization to prevent problems like like milu so that's one of the things we're working on but as said uh that's why like this month this one takes around uh four months and yeah to get we want to get the result three times in a row so yeah if we do this test three times yeah then you you're already one year further and every time we change
• 95:00 - 95:30 something and every time uh we figuring out something new so we then need to do the test again and again it takes three to four months so it's it sounds so easy to do a simple test and then get all the answers you expect but uh unfortunately it's not that easy as it sounds and it takes a lot of time but we hopefully in the next uh yeah this year or next year we get more answers on that and if we get any of these results yeah we put
• 95:30 - 96:00 them on our Internet site or we put them on YouTube LinkedIn and Twitter uh we try to do or to make blogs every now and then we didn't do that already for quite a long time because it has been very busy but we want to start up start up with that again to do blogs to explain what we are doing what kind of Trials we're doing and uh if we have results we also share so we don't keep every we don't keep anything for ourself we always want to share that uh with everybody what we figure out so
• 96:00 - 96:30 definitely follow follow us on the social media platforms and that was basically what I wanted to explain in session two about uh plab analysis [Music] um yeah any questions left I would say thanks Eric uh there is there's one a couple of questions here in the in the
• 96:30 - 97:00 chat um I had one question which was related to those sore born insect pests um which are the cane grubs that we have a problem with few of the Growers here in this group have a problem but it's plagued the sugar industry in Queensland a lot so they're reading the roots um in SW is the actual um um sap analysis like it's the same impact isn't it whether they be root
• 97:00 - 97:30 sborn diseases and PES or or or Leaf operating ones yeah I think so it it doesn't really matter if it's uh I think yet I think the soil help is also very important in that case when it's a a problem root related but it's definitely in in that way that if if levels in the plant are not good enough then you know the roots are also not healthy and not strong enough to resist one of these problems so
• 97:30 - 98:00 um I I do expect that if you would compare uh a field where you have a lot of problems with with this and a field where you don't have any problems with this and you compare it with each other that you might find some answers in how to yeah further optimize the health of the of the cop any other questions left yeah Eric um back to them Childs that we the ones we done the on the um nitrogen
• 98:00 - 98:30 that one that had the real high and in the low Leaf in the old leaf and low in the in the new Leaf totally that was to it was different it was that way sorry in the totaland and the ammonium ammonium was the same it was um really high in the old and and low in the young is there anything take time from that yeah it it might be that uh it tells something about eventually and I can imagine that
• 98:30 - 99:00 in sugar cane that can be a thing that uh the young leaves have a easier conversion of ammonium or nitrate into amino acids and proteins because it receives more uh Sun so there's a easier or better evaporation in the youngest part than on the older leav because the the sugar cane is standing very close to each other so very next to each other so it receives less Sun so less sun is less photosynthesis is less conversion so I
• 99:00 - 99:30 can imagine that could be something uh or that could be a reason why there's a higher buildup in the older leaves um but it can also be the case that there's just less transport to the younger Le because the young leav first need to build it up so yeah that's something we need to figure out as well there can there can be different answers for that yeah know all right thanks but it's always it's good to be aware that there might be differences
• 99:30 - 100:00 related to uh how much the leaf is exposed to the Sun and to the climate conditions or the yeah around that leaf which I can imagine is is different on the oldest Leaf compared to the youngest Leaf which is more in the top of the plant so it receives more sun and there might be an easier evaporation so you probably still look at averaging it then if you wanted to get a a total NR and you'd average the high in the low
• 100:00 - 100:30 reading in this case um maybe yes yeah that might be no worries and that's why it's so important to always compare the status of the crop uh and and and to check how the crop is growing if you see any problems with insects or funger diseases um if you see any symptoms on the leaf least what is is is not right
• 100:30 - 101:00 or even crops what would in your opinion would be the the healthiest crop yeah just compare that with each other and and uh that will give you quickly already answers on which well what the actual Target levels need to be and what could be important nutrients to focus on y now Eric if we if send in a sample
• 101:00 - 101:30 that was of a plant that was really unhealthy really unbalanced then how will that help with developing the target values would wouldn't that distort those values unless you're actually knew no it's wouldn't basically the program also works with it takes the yeah this the the it's 15 or 20% yeah basically the 10% of the lowest samples and 10% of the highest samples out of the out of the uh the calculation
• 101:30 - 102:00 for the Target values so basically it takes the levels out which are really deficient or really in an excess so uh plus we we look at that as well but definitely we saw then and with a lot of but that's also why we need at least 400 different samples because then you know then it it cannot be only deficiency samples so uh but we knew from in the case of tomatoes because even though it
• 102:00 - 102:30 it grows in green houses but everybody was applying too much nitrogen so basically all samples we got were too high on nitrogen so the first Target values for tomatoes were higher on nitrogen than we have white now on this moment but eventually we saw that yeah we it 100% that it could go lower with with nitrogen and when grow start to do that and with the conversations we had with the Growers uh who tried that or were doing or we growing already with
• 102:30 - 103:00 less nitrogen and still got good production and a better heal of the plant we saw yeah then the to of the the target values have to go down as well so in the beginning when we started that was also one of the things what was difficult to figure out with just building up data because you just don't know if everybody is too high or too low on a certain element but by doing discussions like this and uh by with the with the use of the new program uh that's not an issue
• 103:00 - 103:30 anymore but it can definitely be that if because uh if if in Queensland uh the soil contains everywhere a certain element in a in in a high amount yeah that might be that it that it pushes the levels up of all the because every all all the samples we measure high for example zinc level that it might be that that's pushing the target values up as well even though that's maybe not the need of the plant or the plant can do it
• 103:30 - 104:00 less that that that can always that that's always that's always a problem with building up data that you don't know exactly what um how we receed the samples but basically with the new program it's it's not going to be an [Music] issue h so with the with the sampling methodology then you sh sent you the methodology that we at stand a fatish
• 104:00 - 104:30 culture in sugar cane in Australia um do you have any comments there which is no not not directly I check the the example you sent to me and I think that would be the right way to sample the the sugar cane yeah so and as we spoke before um I think Aaron You' be pleased to know we don't need 150 leaves to get a sample in fact uh you know the the less samples the better or the less leaves in two two
• 104:30 - 105:00 ways the less less leaves the less weight the more samples we can actually get in a in a in a box in the cheaper the freight and the freight is about the price of the you know nearly equal to the price of the actual samping itself so that's that's a good news uh and yeah but we still need enough enough leaves to make a representative sample so I think Eric you're saying if you got at least 10 leaves or you 10 to yeah I
• 105:00 - 105:30 would say yeah exactly I would say take at least 15 to 20 leaves that's really representing uh more or less the field and um then we are 100% sure we get enough sub out of the lease I think I think we can do it less but I I just want to be sure that we always get or receive enough lease because it would be pretty if if it's if we cannot get enough sub out of it then it's the waste of money sing the samples without us without that we could take any take any
• 105:30 - 106:00 sub out of it okay and then the next question is more about how we how we do this as a as a group um um I've set up a an account with that b boting online um and we'll provide the the the web the login details for everyone to see um and what we're doing is we're sharing I guess we're agreeing to share all our all the results for for all these
• 106:00 - 106:30 samples so that we can you know learn from each other's sampling as well as ours if um just if anyone's got any problems with that certainly please let me know um we learn together so Eric does there what sort of advice do you see when when you see a sample come in does there is there any analysis that comes back how do we um do you provide any any top of just the results no normally not so based on the results there we don't have any system or program what can advise a certain
• 106:30 - 107:00 fertilizer recipe or a certain advice on uh the results and and the main reason of that is because you need more you basically as a as a consultant we first need to ask a lot of questions about the field and how it's going to give a better uh explanation on what we see in the data so like in this case I can easily explain okay I see in one of the fuels potassium to low and that led to a higher sodium or to a higher calcium or
• 107:00 - 107:30 higher or lower magnesium but um yeah I also need to ask the grower if if he if he's seeing deficiency symptoms if he didn't apply it or if the levels in the soil are low and um so I always need more information on that yeah yep so that that's why it's basically impossible to uh give like a standard recipe what every result we we send back because it's that's impossible because
• 107:30 - 108:00 there are so many factors influencing the levels in the plant that it depends on so many different factors on how to react on a high on a low level that yeah that's not possible to let a computer calculate that yeah understand so will be what what how I buy this is that we we'll be providing you know some some local expertise and to actually you know facilitate or support ourselves as a group to you as to build up that
• 108:00 - 108:30 knowledge base to make sense of of um of of the numbers and provide you know individual you know one-on-one sort of support yeah any questions any from around the group yeah so one of the questions is that John Kemp this week in his podcast suggested that within next 18 months new technology will supersede sap analysis uh any thoughts or comments Eric uh I haven't heard this podcast yet
• 108:30 - 109:00 and I have no idea what where he talks about so of course we are developing new or checking new parameters which could be interesting so for example divide sugars into different so now we measure the total amount of sugars but we want to divide that into simple sugars and complex sugars so say the fructose sose glucose um we also able to measure other
• 109:00 - 109:30 elements uh already and and we're looking for more different parameters but I don't think that John is he doesn't even know that from us so I can imagine that he he's aware of that so I have to listen the podcast to to to know what he means but we also we all is searching for new measurements where we what we can include on a PL test to get uh yeah to get even more information out of uh
• 109:30 - 110:00 out of the plant okay any other thoughts any questions any any comments about how we proceed from here uh just a quick question are we putting um just at 100 Mil of the third Leaf when we're doing these plant samples or we going to take the whole Leaf as a plant no send send uh the middle part of
• 110:00 - 110:30 the leave like you did the the last time because if you if you would send the whole Leaf then I think with just one LEF yeah we would get already enough sub out of it but the leaves are just too big to send to us so because of the size of the leaves we advise to send the middle part of the leaf like it did last time and um I think that that would be the best way to continue also to get enough different I'm going to interrupt you I'm going to interrupt you what we what
• 110:30 - 111:00 we've tested to date is mature cane that's been fertilized it's about to be harvested what we're embarking on is sap sampling small emergence plant cane which is spiking out of the ground do we select the leaf how do we get the Leaf to what what Leaf are we sending to you yeah well I think in that case you kind of make a difference between young and old leaves it's just going to be young leaves
• 111:00 - 111:30 um yeah I might have to see a picture of that to to give a good advice on that but uh basically it's not going to be a difference between young and old Le because it's just going to be young leaves um if you would just take the middle part then you would have to take a lot of different crops to get enough uh plab uh maybe then in that case you need to send the whole leave the B you just sent the whole
• 111:30 - 112:00 leave to us do the every what what bit the Le want potatoes strawberries that's the part we going send sug what part of the plant do you want out of a strawberry or a potato key to do your test at normally the food is developed Le
• 112:00 - 112:30 so G we're same protocol what you pay out of every other sa test every other crop you take going to change yeah there's a protocol that we normally which Leaf to take that can be different on on on every qu but we normally say take the first fully developed Lea that would be the the the young leaf and uh take the oldest but still healthy leaf for the old leaves
• 112:30 - 113:00 that's that's normally the standard we say to take young but I can imagine if the plan is still that young you don't have a full develop young Lea yet so uh then you take yeah then you take a a much younger Le basically than you normally would do but then you can also expect maybe lower levels in plants but I'm not sure I might have to see a picture of an example from from the crop you want to sample and then we can advise on that
• 113:00 - 113:30 what what would be best Lea to test or the amount of leaves or the part of the leav when we take potatoes and stuff and so when we C potatoes we only have young leaves we don't have an old Lea strategy in a growing cycle yeah you basically normally with potato you also take young and old leaves that's normally the case in potato you also take young and old Le
• 113:30 - 114:00 separately any we'll get you some BOS I think yeah surely we can do that yeah please do that then we can uh then I can f look into that and give reaction on that I'll I'll bring a photo up if I can if perhaps if you can unshare Eric might be able to figure out how to use this technology to or maybe Megan can help me how to
• 114:00 - 114:30 she how do I sh my screen oh there we go found the button Drive yeah thank you um can you see that um yeah I can see it this is courtesy of Ashley thanks Ashley very quick
• 114:30 - 115:00 thinking this is the first sugar cane Sprouts coming out basically I would I would say it doesn't have any use to sample this yet I think it's just to Young especially if you want to develop Target values and if we have eventually Target values uh what I think is that the actual levels in these leaves are going to be much lower compared to uh
• 115:00 - 115:30 over stage I think this this is still too young to sample you can you can do it but I'm not sure if it's that you really need to compare this stage of the quop with the with the same stage of on another fields or and and not comparing that with the target value because I think it will bring the the actual level is going to be much lower because if you compare this with um oh I'm not sharing the screen anymore but if you compare it with one of the samples you sent to us then
• 115:30 - 116:00 that's going to be totally different so I just think this is too young so Eric I think the like actually's got some more thanks actually I I'll um Eric I've just sent Trevor a photo of R return cane That's plant cane mhm the photo he's got now is of Run Cane which is normally already had its fertilizer its full nutrition applied by
• 116:00 - 116:30 this stage MH uh so as soon as Trevor gets that photo up um you need to advise us on how how what Leaf you require from this plant y because it what what we saw before the fully mature can is unlikely you're unlikely going to see many samples from Kane that size it's it's it's at it's at this early stage of
• 116:30 - 117:00 the crop that's going to be more common now am I going to what can you actually say can you see my whole desktop or just that one photo I just see one photo stop sharing [Music]
• 117:00 - 117:30 and right that's um that's a return crop Y in this case I would say take the whole leave so take the yeah I cannot point it out but so if you have the the the one in the middle of the picture that you see yeah exactly there you see
• 117:30 - 118:00 those two leaves I I would sample those I was I was not sure if you know Ray Grady Eric he's done he's sends a lot of samples your way and he's had a bit of experience with Kane from way back before analysis he's his his suggestion was to wait till the returns are about 40 50 cm tall before before sampling not I'm not sure yeah I I would normally also say
• 118:00 - 118:30 start sampling a little bit older you can start in this stage but uh it's the same story as what we just saw with the very small Le sping out of the this the ground is that the actual level is going to be different from um uh yeah older cop that's what I [Music] expect it will still give some indications you can expect the same
• 118:30 - 119:00 interactions maybe but the the only thing you can do is that if you do take a sample from this then again take healthy plans unhealthy plans to develop some sort of Target for for this young stage but I would normally say take it a little bit older but what will be looking to do is because most of the fertilizer goes on at around about this would that that be
• 119:00 - 119:30 right is that a common practice for Central quiny oh well yeah traditionally the fertilizers on don't yeah played Trevor I'll just jum jump in there there's been trials done by U Wilmar with Dunder and I don't think it's I think it was 90 days they've no statistical difference of it being applied at as soon as it's been cut to 90 days later yeah yeah that would
• 119:30 - 120:00 surpris me at all it wouldn't it's it's just the risk isn't there of you know just a job you want to get out of the way oh it's all about getting on the padic a lot of times and when your contractor turns up yeah yeah so if you're if you're waiting for the return to a bit taller than that before or you put any fertilizer on you know you're getting your staff Pest and then making a decision from there um you that's a bit of a change to
• 120:00 - 120:30 our normal practices is it is it stretching it too far uh yeah I'm going to say yes to that yeah we're putting it on because if it rains on the thrash we're we're done you're not going to get back on there again if you have one an inch of rain or two inches of rain it's going to take three four uh two to two to three weeks before you can walk on it and then it'll take a month and a half before you can drive on it
• 120:30 - 121:00 again so there's a something for us to work out there as a group isn't it how do we how do we do this you know what's the but what first how much do we need to put on how much can we put on early how much can we hold off and then how else do we put it on if if the you know traditional method of applying it is is is not reliable we're putting our once the Harvest is cut we're putting our pre-emergent on we're putting a Dunder
• 121:00 - 121:30 on and if it doesn't rain we're watering it that's that's that's my big problem to it all I know um Liam suggested we we uh have a kid day and work out do a bit more practicing on S sampling sampling the leaves um and also I suggest that's a good time to I would suggest that that' be a good time to sort of work this out as a group
• 121:30 - 122:00 what what are our what are our strategy what's the what's the best bet approach to this yeah yeah and I'm just testing or checking if I can find something about testing on sugar cane and the stage to start um what St St
• 122:00 - 122:30 mer I have a I have a picture of what it take the Le but then then the qu is already much older if I just quickly share the screen again then um can you see it this this is what I have from other sampling guide on sugar
• 122:30 - 123:00 cane can begin from around 30 cm height uh the only real issue there is probably
• 123:00 - 123:30 how everyone applies depending on how they apply with they stol split side dress or liquid yeah they fertilizer like Li liquid won't matter won't matter nothing side dress won't matter nothing where you're at that plant stage still split maybe that sort of thing but I know other Black's thoughts yeah can I suggest um
• 123:30 - 124:00 it's probably time for a beer rather than to solve this problem uh but it's it's definitely something to be to be worked out and you know what other different solutions we did we did go through an exercise on paradigms and there's a few paradigms here to to work your way through um and you know I'm suggesting how do we what can we Lear in the next year or in this next crop and more likely the next four or five months um on a small scale that um gives us
• 124:00 - 124:30 some ideas of how to apply this commercially going forward what do you think seeing any nods yep um while we're here might mention that kit day cuz youram suggested we come together as a kit day there is there is one organized and I'd like to thank Paul Paul Rogers for um
• 124:30 - 125:00 volunteering to host the next kit day it's um it's going to be in August at um Megan Paul can you remember what day it is Paul has left already um but uh well I'll have to double check exactly what date we said it four yeah seven right yeah and if you do
• 125:00 - 125:30 such um if you have such a uh kid day make make definitely pictures of it and send it to us as well because then we can make like a manual for how to sample because if other sugar cane Growers want to start with it especially for building up uh the target values then if everybody's doing or taking the samples in the same way that that's going to be important so so that can be helpful as well to to make a good manual for this sad yep
• 125:30 - 126:00 okay all right looks like you got a bit of sugarcane over your left shoulder there Eric no no it's something else yeah it looks similar but it's it's it's to something else okay okay anyway look thanks so much Eric really appreciate your um your time and patience and yeah adjusting to this new new crop um yeah thanks everyone for your participation as well it's there's a lot
• 126:00 - 126:30 to learn here lot to lot lot more to apply um but it's a good start and uh just some more information on on its way we'll provide the log on details for that theing online so you can go and have a look there's not so much to look at there at the moment only what Eric has showed you so but you can have a play around there and that's what it'll look like going forward so and yeah stay stay tuned for that um notice of that kit day coming up in in August other than that yeah thanks so
• 126:30 - 127:00 much thanks thanks Eric thanks Megan thanks everyone for your attendance and have a good week have a good weekend I would say