Pros and cons of working in quant trading

Summary

Highlights

• The industry's humorous lingo spills into everyday life, likening trading to gambling 🎲.
• Trading firms often host exciting social outings, from VIP sports events to Michelin-star dinners 🍾🍽️.
• The inverse dress code rewards tenure with the freedom to dress casually, irrespective of financial success 👕🤑.
• The countercyclical nature of trading allows for peak earnings during market downturns 📉💰.
• High-stress levels and early mornings are significant cons for non-morning folks ⚡🌅.

Key Takeaways

• Quant trading has evolved from pit trading to tech-centric firms, showcasing a unique blend of cultures 🎮🤖.
• The work environment can be both high-stress and highly rewarding; bonuses peak when markets crash 📈💼.
• Quirky, gambling-like culture is prevalent but can be a double-edged sword with its pros and cons 🎲🥳.
• Social events, networking, and unique traditions like poker tournaments and fancy outings add excitement to the job 🏟️🍸.
• Despite the lucrative aspect, the skill set in quant trading can be non-transferable, posing career challenges 🚧🔍.

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction to Quant Trading Culture The chapter introduces the culture of quantitative trading, focusing on a character named Yang, distinguished for his math skills. Yang is highlighted for winning a national math competition in China. Despite an initial assumption about his identity and capabilities, Yang clarifies that his name is Tyler and explains his look with new hipster glasses, making a lighthearted correction to the stereotype.
• 00:30 - 01:30: Evolution of Trading Industry The chapter discusses the evolution of the trading industry, highlighting its transformation from traditional pit trading to modern tech-based trading firms. It touches on the cultural spectrum within the industry, ranging from the old-school pit traders with their unique customs to the advanced tech firms of today. An example provided is Jump Trading, which originated from traditional trading pits and has now become a tech-driven trading firm.
• 01:30 - 04:30: Con: Gambling The chapter titled 'Con: Gambling' appears to begin with a discussion on the culture of trading pits and their role in forming trading strategies for different firms. It emphasizes that despite being considered more traditional or 'backwards', some firms intentionally use pits more frequently in their strategies compared to others. This is highlighted as a key difference in trading approaches among firms. The author mentions the prominence of notable pit traders such as Donald R Wilson. The chapter transitions into the topic of gambling.
• 04:30 - 06:00: Pro: Location The chapter discusses the similarities between trading and gambling. It describes how the financial industry has its own version of gambling, especially noticeable during events like March Madness. In these situations, there's significant monetary action exchanged among brokers and traders. They engage in unique bets derived from trading concepts, such as butterflies and call spreads, which are not typically seen in regular gambling contexts. Additionally, the chapter provides insights into how pit traders quote options.
• 06:00 - 08:30: Con: Frat Culture The chapter explores the unique lingo and culture within trading environments, drawing parallels to frat culture. It highlights how traders use specific phrases and humor, such as quoting markets or joking about the time it takes for elevators to arrive, showcasing their distinctive communication style.
• 08:30 - 11:30: Con: Drug Use The chapter titled 'Con: Drug Use' discusses how individuals immersed in certain cultures or activities, like trading or betting, tend to incorporate their work jargon and mindset into their everyday lives. The chapter illustrates this with an example of someone on a Tinder date who continually thinks in terms of market bets about personal interactions, wondering about the likelihood of receiving a response from their date. It highlights how deeply the professional habits and language can influence personal life dynamics, making mundane experiences like dating analogous to trading scenarios.
• 11:30 - 13:00: Pro: Casual Dress Code A junior Trader at a firm boasted he could eat 100 chicken McNuggets in 10 minutes. This statement led to a betting frenzy among onlookers, with thousands of dollars at stake in side bets. As the event unfolded after the market closed, a large crowd gathered, infusing the atmosphere with a lively and competitive energy reminiscent of a frat house or high school cafeteria culture. The event was a vivid reflection of the firm's unique, casual dress code and vibrant work culture.
• 13:00 - 15:00: Pro: Counter-Cyclical Nature of Trading The chapter titled 'Pro: Counter-Cyclical Nature of Trading' begins with a casual discussion led by the head of the trading desk, who humorously contemplates how many packets of tartar sauce he could consume in one sitting. He confidently claims he could eat 40 packets in just 10 minutes, which leads to a lighthearted bet supported by others present. This bet centers around the challenge of consuming tartar sauce and generates side bets among observers, resulting in the main participant winning $300, with possible additional earnings from side wagers. The setting is informal, illustrative of camaraderie and the spontaneous nature sometimes present in trading environments.
• 15:00 - 16:00: Con: Early Mornings This chapter explores the quirky and whimsical aspects of a particular culture or group, focusing on a bizarre challenge where an individual attempts to consume 40 packets of tartar sauce in 10 minutes. The challenge has a secondary stipulation requiring the participant to avoid vomiting for 15 minutes after completing the task. The scenario reveals the playful nature of the culture, as side bets are made regarding the participant's ability to keep the sauce down, highlighting a mix of camaraderie and amusement in observing such unconventional feats.
• 16:00 - 18:00: Con: Male-Dominated Environment The transcript discusses the pros and cons of gambling, particularly in a male-dominated environment. It acknowledges that while gambling can be fun and entertaining, with elements like betting on humorous challenges, it can also be addictive and harmful if one's impulses aren't controlled. The conversation highlights a specific example where a person decided to partake in eating tartar sauce packets for a $300 bet, illustrating risk-taking and the potential downside of such activities in these environments. It critiques the situation by mentioning how toxic it would be if someone was forced into such actions, emphasizing that, in this example, it was the individual's choice to engage in the activity. Despite the humor and the thrill, it resulted in the person vomiting, which underscores the negative outcomes of irresponsible gambling behavior.
• 18:00 - 23:00: Pro: Social Events and Networking In the chapter titled 'Pro: Social Events and Networking', the focus is on the typical locations of trading firms, highlighting their prestigious and often historic settings. The chapter references the Chicago Board of Trade building, known for its striking architecture and prime location in downtown Chicago, where it's not just a business hub but also a popular spot for wedding photos. Similarly, Wall Street in Manhattan represents another central and historic area for trading. The chapter implies that the location of these firms is closely tied to their historical growth out of the exchanges.
• 23:00 - 28:00: Con: Non-Transferable Skills The chapter discusses the issue of non-transferable skills, particularly in the context of employment in trading firms compared to tech firms. It highlights that trading firms are often located in major, vibrant cities like New York City, London, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Chicago, unlike some tech firms that might be situated in less central locations. The choice of location is significant as it affects the accessibility and quality of life for employees, with examples such as Google's shuttles for employees in San Francisco. The chapter also touches upon the social aspect of working in such environments, where one might encounter notable individuals within the finance industry, termed as 'Finance celebrities'.
• 28:00 - 31:00: Con: Stressful Environment In this chapter titled 'Con: Stressful Environment', the narrator shares experiences of meeting influential figures in the financial news and trading sectors. They recount meeting Rick Santelli, a notable name in financial news, and John Nerian, a former football player turned prominent options trader worth between $50 to $100 million. The narrative also highlights how traders share facilities like Buckingham gym located in the CBOE building, mentioning a personal detail about having their locker next to Nerian's due to their last names being alphabetically close.
• 31:00 - 31:30: Conclusion and Plug for Patreon In the conclusion, the speaker shares an anecdote about meeting an influential person at a conference through their work. This meeting was part of an effort to evaluate software for their company, which also provided valuable networking opportunities. Although the speaker typically does not engage deeply in transactional networking, they acknowledge the benefits of meeting powerful individuals. They briefly touch upon 'frat culture' as a concluding point. Additionally, there seems to be a mention of a con, possibly relating to the topic, but details are sparse in the transcript provided.

Pros and cons of working in quant trading Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 that's my Quant your what my quantitative my math specialist look at him you noticed anything different about him look at his face that's very racist look at his eyes I'll give you a hint his name's Yang he won a national math competition in China he doesn't even speak English so yeah I'm sure of the math actually my name is Tyler and I got these new hipster glasses so please stop
• 00:30 - 01:00 calling me the MIT neurosurgeon thank you all right pros and cons of working in prop trading so I'll start off by saying that the industry has evolved quite a bit the industry grew out of the pit trading culture the spectrum of the culture in the industry is probably like pit traders in and and all their Shenanigans and then you know all the way to like modern tech firms because these these trading firms have kind of evolved into Tech firms most of the trading firms you know of today like jump trading are basically grown out of the pits you know like it's called jump
• 01:00 - 01:30 trading because people would jump in the pits to try to get the attention of the Brokers and drw Don Donald R Wilson was a really good pit Trader and pretty much all the founders of these well-known trading firms are are are pit Traders that's kind of the history but also keep in mind that if a trading firm is has more of a pit culture it doesn't mean that it's more backwards because um some firms just utilize the pit more in their trading strategy whereas other firms don't and so that's one of the main differences there but yeah let's get into it I I I created a little list I wrote on a napkin uh all right con gambling so there's a lot of
• 01:30 - 02:00 similarities between trading and gambling which makes sense so um you know you're going to see a lot of gambling in the industry during March Madness there's going to be like a chat room where there's like $20,000 worth of action just flying around um between Brokers Traders and um what's fun about it is that they'll make these unique bets that are kind of based off of uh trading Concepts you know like butterflies and call spreads they'll make these kind of interesting bets that you won't see in normal gambling circles but to give you a little background on how how pit Traders quote options
• 02:00 - 02:30 markets so there's like a certain lingo where they'll do like uh oh I'm I'm 95 at 105 you know like if something's trading around 100 and you want to buy it lower and sell it higher you might say like I'm 95 at 105 100 up or something and that's basically saying you're willing to trade 100 of them on the bid and the offer so people use this kind of lingo and all kinds of things right so you know you leave uh work and the and the Traders are waiting for the elevator that might say what's your what's your Market on the elevator getting here and someone might say I'm 10 seconds at 30 seconds you know and they'll be like I'll buy those you know
• 02:30 - 03:00 and so they just kind of live and breathe this stuff um and like if there like the trador on like a Tinder date or something and the girl is not replying he'll be like what's your Market on this girl texting me back you know I'm 3 hours at 10 hours and the guy might be like I'll buy those I'm one week at never you so there's just all this like funny lingo and people people get really into it it just kind of like spills over to their day-to-day lives um and uh what's what's really interesting is these like unique prop bets that they do you know like um so in the pits there's
• 03:00 - 03:30 this guy who said he could eat 100 chicken McNuggets in 10 minutes so people are all like what and after the market closed they brought over 100 chicken McNuggets and there's all this action people crowning around him you know there's like literally like 10,000 $20,000 worth of action people making side bets um and then he just starts eating and there's someone like timing him and you know this is just like part of the pit culture you know very much like frat house culture um High School cafeteria culture uh a story that happened at at my particular firm this one uh junior Trader was talking to the
• 03:30 - 04:00 head of the desk and he was saying he likes tartar sauce and he was like how many packets of tartar sauce you think you can eat and uh one one sitting and he's like I could eat like 40 40 packets within like 10 minutes and the guy's like sold you know so you know sold meaning like you know it's probably lower than that um and so there's this bed where he the sun's coming out there's this bed where he he basically um we all crowded around I have a picture of it um and I think he got $300 but there were all these other side bets so he might have made more um and then
• 04:00 - 04:30 we timed him 10 minutes and see if he could eat 40 packets of tartar sauce in uh 10 minutes and um yeah he did it but there was like a another um contingency where he he couldn't puke for 15 minutes afterwards so there were like side bets on that like oh yeah he'll do it but he'll he'll puke within 10 minutes after after uh and people are taking action on that so uh yeah just an interesting culture um it's my dog um but it's kind of like uh
• 04:30 - 05:00 you know yeah I I still call it a con because like you know a lot of people can't control their gambling impulses so so it like spirals out of control but you know a part of it you could say as a pro because it's fun right it's fun to kind of like you know bet on things and watch someone eat packets of tartar sauce and um you know and it was probably fun for him to make $300 it's not like anyone told him he has to do that you know that would be toxic as hell but you know he wanted to make $300 and he thought he could do it so um he definitely puked after that 15 minutes but still I mean you know he was a
• 05:00 - 05:30 junior Trader that $300 probably you know went far for him all right Pro location so most trading firms are in like the downtown historic downtown area you know like Chicago's uh border Trade building is like one of these like really fancy cool architecture buildings um it's right on the cell people take their wedding photos there it's a really cool place and it's it's in it's right in the middle of Chicago and you know Wall Street in New York city is in is in Manhattan and you know the location of these trading firms is you know because they grew out of the exchanges pretty
• 05:30 - 06:00 cool you know when you compare it to like a lot of tech firms that are in the middle of nowhere you know like I guess like Twitter's in San Francisco but then you know like Google will have shuttles if you live in San Francisco so you can take the shuttle to their campus and then take it back location matters so most trading firms are in cool cities like New York City London Singapore Hong Kong Chicago and uh and they're normally downtown um you get to kind of hang out with like what I would call Finance celebrities like I got to run into Rick Santelli a lot sorry this sun is like hitting my neck now really bad timing
• 06:00 - 06:30 for my video uh I got to meet Rick Santelli I have a picture with him he's like a big deal in kind of financial news he's a fun guy um and uh who else I got to meet like John nerian he's he's like this big jacked former football player that became like a big deal in the options trading scene um he's probably worth like $50 to100 million but yeah there's only one main gym that all the Traders use like Buckingham gym because it's like right in the uh sibo building and so my locker is actually next to his cuz my last name is Masuda and his last name is Nigerian I think
• 06:30 - 07:00 it's alphabetical so I took a picture of that and but I got to meet him at like conferences and stuff because he was trying to like pitch this option software to uh to our company so they were like hey man you want to go out and like see if his software is any good so I got to meet him and um you know it's like good networking opportunities I was never much of a schoer but you know for people who are like try to like you know do all that like you know transactional stuff like all let me get buddy buddy with this guy like you know it's cool to get to meet these powerful people all right next Point frat culture so this is is a con uh you know a lot of the more
• 07:00 - 07:30 more pit Centric trading firms they have a frat culture and um you know they'll they'll they'll Haze you they'll like walk by and like fart on you like like like crop dusting I guess they would call it um just like they'll give you demeaning nicknames like my buddy they they called him Farm dog because his dad was a farmer and he was from a small town that was you know big on Farming and um they'd be like Farm me get me coffee you know like
• 07:30 - 08:00 like um but they they their nickname for me was like piston which was like whatever like I don't really mind that you know like Detroit Pistons I guess um that wasn't really that bad so I was grateful but um yeah the Frat Culture The Hazing the nicknames you know um they'll make you like run little errands for them like oh I forgot to like pay the uh cleaning lady like she's going to be there in an hour like go take an Uber to my place and hand her this 200 bucks or whatever and um one guy had to go down and he Lo like
• 08:00 - 08:30 one of the partners lost a bet to one of the brokers in the pit so you had to go down and um give him like $2,000 in cash that's probably a little scary to walk around with that much money um just like they run errands for them and stuff you know um so the Frat culture the hierarchy um that's a con another con drug use um there's like heavy drug use which makes sense cuz trading is such a stressful industry a lot of people smoke cigarettes and then they um that evolves into chewing dip because people uh they
• 08:30 - 09:00 don't want to obviously you can't smoke indoors and so you got these like Partners like chips chewing dip like they just like have a little cup they're spitting in it and it just kind of um you know other like Junior Traders want to emulate them they look up to them so then they'll pick it up they'll be hey what kind of dip is that oh that's really cool man and and you'll see them doing it and it's kind of like not not good right to spread that kind of attitude um there's a heavy drinking culture the bar series and the Border Trade building they're always serving double shots by default because people are so stressed stressed out when they're like making and losing fortunes
• 09:00 - 09:30 every day um people smoked like weed um you know can't say I didn't partake in that but yeah like a subset of the firm would would uh like to smoke after work so uh we would just go you know when the Market's closed we would there was one guy whose dad was like CEO of a big company so he was loaded and he he had this ridiculous apartment with like Florida ceiling Windows overlooking Grant Park and in Lake Michigan and Buckingham Fountain you'd see the fountain like shoot up every few I guess every 30 minutes and so we love to go to
• 09:30 - 10:00 his place and he would host and he had these like cool smoking Technologies like this cool volcano thing and so uh we would like to smoke at his place every day after work um and uh yeah definitely other people partook in like heavier drugs but you know I was never really involved in those those like sub circles but it was definitely a thing it kind of comes with the territory um Pro dress code so a lot of these firms have what I would call an inverse dress code so it's like uh Partners basically look homeless like one of the partners would
• 10:00 - 10:30 wear pajamas to work and and this yellow shirt that says Cheerios um and this bum like ski hat and this like scraggly ass beard he literally looked homeless and if like the the door man downstairs if they like didn't know him they probably wouldn't let him in the building but this guy pulls like $2 to5 million I think at least that's what I heard from someone else like every year his bonus is like $2 to5 million and he comes in the work looking homeless and so there's like an inverse dress code where you you kind of earn the right to dress crappy As you move up and then new hires have to wear khakis and tucked in like
• 10:30 - 11:00 button- down shirts and um you know it's like the thing about prop trading is that you don't have investors or clients You're basically trading the capital of the founders or the partners so basically there you know who are you dressing up for you know you're you're only trading trading in the markets you're just trying to make money so you're dressing for the other people at work so the new people have to kind of like dress well for the other people at work and then um and then once you move up you basically get to dress crappy and you can prioritize comfort and um
• 11:00 - 11:30 basically like uh this Tipping Point is when you make Trader you know you pass all these internal tests and then they're like all right congratulations we're going to put you on this desk and once you make Trader you can wear like a cap like a baseball hat like I would wear my New York Yankees hat cuz I'm from New York and um that's kind of it's kind of like getting a black belt you know when you're moving up in ranks in in whatever karate or Judo like the cap is like your black belt and when you show up to work it's like oh bro's wearing a hat like he made Trader you know so it's a really funny kind of concept the invers dress code and you
• 11:30 - 12:00 could wear CRA work like these ratty t-shirts like I would wear like those free T-shirts they give it job fairs and stuff and wear these like crappy jeans and flipflops on the summer so yeah my my lifestyle like during those summer years they were so fun you know I would stroll on the work and flipflops you know trade it up making six figures leave and go smoke with my buddy like it was just such a chill life um and I do miss that that was like my eeky guy you know cuz trading firms don't really operate like that anymore at least it's they're far and few between they're mostly collaborative and um you know
• 12:00 - 12:30 there's like standup meetings and it's a lot of like coding and stuff but yeah those were the Glory Days for sure um all right next Point yeah countercyclical I talk about this in other videos but yeah it's it's a pro you know you get to make your biggest bonuses when the markets are crashing so you have money when other people don't have money and you can uh you know you can buy real estate at really low fixed rate fixed mortgage rates um you can buy stocks within the dip usually um and you know while everyone else is out out of a job and you know it's like a fire like fire in a movie theater everyone
• 12:30 - 13:00 there like a bottleneck everyone's trying to like get out of the exit doors trampling on each other like you're you're making your biggest bonuses and you're outside of the exit door like you know selling them water bottles for like $20 a piece you know just kidding that's that's a really predatory example there um but then on the other end bra when the markets are just calmly grinding up uh you might have have to deal with a layoff at work but then it's fine because other Industries are hiring so you can transition to be a data scientist in big Tech or something you know so you're pretty much hedged on both sides so being at a counter local industry is amazing um all right con
• 13:00 - 13:30 waking up early you know I'm not really a morning person so this is a big con for me especially in Chicago it's like freezing and it's 1 hour behind New York so you know Stock Market opens at 8:30 and uh you know typically these these firms trade options on Futures Futures usually trade 24 hours not counting between 4:00 to 5:00 p.m. so you know but they start picking up in volume at like 7:00 a.m. maybe but if there's like a number like some kind of announcement it might be you know might be close it might be like 6:30 a.m. so you're expected to be there at like 7:00 a.m. usually at latest and so so you got to get up at like 6:00 a.m. or so and yeah
• 13:30 - 14:00 the sun isn't even up usually and it's like so cold outside you leave your warm bed to go into this like freezing cold and you know it's like it's not for everybody you know that that whole like early morning schedule but yeah if you're a morning person maybe you wouldn't mind it all right con it's it's pretty much all men though this is changing but at least the pit trading Centric firms it's all men and um it's definitely a con like if you're a woman um it can be kind of like uncomfortable untoxic like one of the one of the portfolio managers of one of my firms uh one of the desks I worked out she would
• 14:00 - 14:30 go down into the pits and they'd be like you know saying all these like pervy things to her oh wait there's like an animal over there that's crazy oh wow it's like a coyote who dude Arizona anyways yeah they would say all these pery things to her like why can I fill your order baby you know like just I don't know it's like girls don't want to deal with that right and um and uh yeah it's like pervasive sexism and stuff but um you know even for a guy it's annoying because there's no woman at work so it's like you know at least
• 14:30 - 15:00 for the people who like to date within work like that's kind of annoying right like I I don't I don't do that but you know I guess for some people they want to there's few prospects and um if there's finally like a new girl at worker oh wow who's going to chase after her you know it's like I don't know there's other reasons too but you know a culture that's all men is definitely not not desirable so that's a con um Pro poker tournaments yeah there would be charity poker tournaments at like Ferrari dealerships and stuff and you could you could um there would be like a
• 15:00 - 15:30 limo that picks us up after work and we'd all be like drinking it's like open bar and it's just so much fun you know and um almost everyone of these trading firms have their own annual poker tournament and usually this was a standard at least you know in the last 10 years the winner would get a free uh Free World Series of Poker uh buyin which is a $110,000 um buyin so um but I think as a condition they have to wear like the firm's like brand like on a hat or a T-shirt and so it was so much fun you know poker culture is really similar
• 15:30 - 16:00 to trading culture you know it's a lot of like Risk Management um games of incomplete information so a lot of the players were a lot of people were big poker guys it was fun one year one of our guys who came in first in the poker tournament he got within the money he almost got to the final table and so he uh you know and while we're all trading at work we we have all those wmount TVs playing like uh financial news we we switched it to ESPN to watch him play um and we're like rooting for him and stuff you know so it's it's it's cool you know the overlap between the poker world and
• 16:00 - 16:30 and the trading World um I like that aspect of working in prop trading so that's a pro uh another Pro this should I should have mentioned this way earlier but like the outings are amazing um you know like sporting events Brokers get us tickets to Cubs games they're usually like the very front row on third base I don't know why they even at different firms they always had that front row on third base I it's like a broker thing you get access to like the VIP lounge where there's like all this like free food steak unlimited drinks yeah like you know I was single like it was a great Flex when you when you go on dates
• 16:30 - 17:00 and stuff you just get these tickets for free so you you know you just bring a Tinder date there and she's so impressed and um you yeah you get tickets to Bulls games the partners would get like courtside tickets but we would get like seven rows from the front um and we would get Blackhawks Bears tickets so like all the sporting events we could get tickets like pretty pretty regularly for free we go to Michelin star restaurants a lot of places have like monthly outings one of the firms I worked at uh we would have like a Michelin star dinner annually we went to l2o CPA like just like the best
• 17:00 - 17:30 restaurants in the city and they would rent out the whole place or they would rent out like one room for the for the company and uh yeah it's a great time laala paloa we would get three-day passes they would be the the VIP passes so it's like Cabana passes and I've never experienced this before but like the porter potties are fancy it's like mahogany wood and stuff it's weird it's like a it's like a oxymoron cuz it's like a porter potty but it's like Swanky and uh there's like open bar there's
• 17:30 - 18:00 like all this like food and then it's like elevated so there's like a little balcony area and it's right by the main stage so you could see Lady Gaga perform on the main stage but then we get to like look over this balcony thing and I don't know I was always worried about like crowd surgers and getting squished and stuff so it's kind of nice to be able to look over the balcony and be like you know like that Meme of those like um those like snoody guys like looking over the balcony like it was like that it felt good um and then like uh like big bigname uh celebrities would come perform like we had train come per performed for us you know they sang like
• 18:00 - 18:30 Hey soul sister and um like Drops of Jupiter um I know uh Katy Perry performed for other another firm there's a lot of you know you hear about this kind of stuff um so that's always cool it's like a nice Flex you know it's like company small so you can easily just go to the front of the stage you know and just take pictures and videos of like two feet away from them um all right con um non-transferable skill set so especially if you're in the trading side A lot of times your specialty becomes understanding the nature of that particular market and um you know if the
• 18:30 - 19:00 strategy you're trading dries up then you you no longer make money in that market so um a lot of times companies will just fire the whole desk rather than move you to another desk it depends on the culture of the company but a lot of places will do that and it makes sense because they reason that you're kind of expecting bigger bonuses now and you might have like trading habits from Trading that particular product where if they move you to a new desk like those those same things don't hold and they want to just you know get some young kid out of MIT and underpay him for the first few years and that kid's going to
• 19:00 - 19:30 pick up the new product anyways and so they can give him smaller bonuses in the meantime whereas you're expecting big bonuses by then so there's a lot of reasons why trading firms will just fire you but you know usually you have like a run it's like being a being like on a sports contract like as a pro athlete you'll have like a good run and then and then it can just end immediately and people know this so that's why they'll they'll do an MBA they'll in the back of mind they know okay when my trading career ends I'll just go pivot to do an MBA um and then pivot to another part of Finance like Investment Banking um and and it's also I think why like Asian
• 19:30 - 20:00 parents like push their kids into being a doctor lawyer engineer but they don't in include Trader because there's so much variance in the trader Trader comp and the trader career that they don't they don't like the instability of it um so yeah and for me in particular like I I chose trading um I I liked being a Trader but um that that that situation happened to me like I I was most of my money I went four years in a row maybe making like 500% returns which is awesome and um most of my was like this
• 20:00 - 20:30 Market making strategy where I would pretty much like there was this big whale like dumb money whale that would come into the market and splash around and just like I would basically hunt them down every day like Moby Dick and just like he was just uh making these inefficient trades and like reaching for things and I just constantly be fading him and like scraping like thousands of dollars off of him every day and um that was like my whole strategy just kind of like you know exploiting this this Trader this this whale um and he was in the market splashing around for years and um you know one day he just he just went
• 20:30 - 21:00 away I don't know if he blew out or he he retired or quit but um yeah like my profits dropped by maybe like 80% once that once that whale left the market and um it sucks because I I was actually on my way to trying to trade on my own instead of getting 20% as a cut I was going to get 50% and have a backer um and I was working through that in the background and everything and then and then this whale went away and so I was like ah now my profits aren't even worth it so that's when I kind of kind of pivoted into more Quant Quant researcher
• 21:00 - 21:30 type stuff partially because I didn't like the kind of instability of of uh not knowing whether my strategy was going to continue making money whereas Quant stuff is very transferable right you could be a data scientist in big Tech a lot of people need quants so um you know that's that's a more transferable skill set but certainly for like Trader the transferability is a concern and and so even though you can get big bonuses it's it's definitely a con the fact that your skill set isn't necessarily going to be transferable um and last con stress people get yelled at
• 21:30 - 22:00 it's a high highflying fast-paced Dynamic environment and you know Fortune fortunes are being made and lost and a lot of people you know they yell at you they scream you know Partners will yell and um a lot of people can't handle that it's a very like stressful environment um and that's not always like that it's usually just calm and you know there's not much happening but when things are going crazy um yeah things get people start screaming and yelling and um yeah it's not for everybody but it's definitely a con because you know it it's anxiety inducing so yeah I think
• 22:00 - 22:30 that's my my list here so um you know hopefully uh you learn something if you if you want to try to break in the prop trading uh uh you know I have a patreon going to plug the patreon I have a Discord in the patreon where you know I have a career chat room where you know I can help you learn about the industry and how to break into it so do consider that all right well thanks a lot see you bye