Reinier Zonneveld: The Future of Techno Is Not Human - The REAL Dangers Of AI In The Music Industry

Summary

In this insightful episode of Danny Rants, techno maestro Reinier Zonneveld opens up about his incredible journey from a classically trained pianist in the Netherlands to a global techno sensation. Drawing on a rich musical background, he discusses his early influences, the serendipitous turn towards dance music, and the challenges he faced breaking into the techno scene. Alongside his entertaining anecdotes from touring the world, Zonneveld passionately delves into the realm of artificial intelligence in music. His project, A2, explores the integration of AI in live performances and tackles the ethical dilemmas surrounding AI's role in the creative industry. This conversation is a deep dive into the intersection of music, technology, and creativity, offering listeners a thoughtful perspective on the evolving landscape of music in the digital age.

Highlights

• Reinier's classical piano background influences his live techno performances 🎹.
• AI's impact on the music industry raises questions about creativity and originality 🤔.
• Tour stories include wild nights and unexpected challenges around the world! 🌍🎤.
• Filth on Acid thrives by embracing diverse and innovative music styles 🎶.
• Navigating the ethical landscape of AI in music creation is a priority 🚀🤖.

Key Takeaways

• Reinier Zonneveld blends his classical music training with techno to create unique live performances 🎹🎧.
• AI is playing an increasingly important role in music, posing both risks and opportunities 🤖🎶.
• Traveling widely, Zonneveld finds inspiration and connection with global music communities 🌍🎵.
• Zonneveld's Filth on Acid label releases tracks that challenge norms and encourage creativity 🎶🔥.
• The rise of AI requires new intellectual property considerations to protect artists' rights 💡🛡️.

Overview

Reinier Zonneveld's journey from a piano prodigy to a techno superstar is nothing short of inspiring. Born in the Netherlands, his foray into music began at the tender age of three. He graciously recounts how classical music shaped his early years, leading him to explore the vibrant world of techno in his teens. The transition was fueled by a newfound passion and the excitement of endless creative possibilities within electronic music. Today, his shows are a spectacle, blending live instrumentation with dynamic techno beats, captivating audiences worldwide.

Beyond his musical exploits, Zonneveld is deeply invested in the intersection of technology and music. His ambitious project, A2, pits his musical genius against artificial intelligence, exploring how AI can innovate yet challenge the essence of music creation. This venture not only highlights his adaptability as an artist but also opens dialogue about the future of AI in creative professions. Zonneveld's insights into this cutting-edge topic are both enlightening and thought-provoking, pointing to a future where technology fundamentally influences musical artistry.

In the broader scope of his work, Reinier remains a boundary-pusher, evident in his endeavors with his label, Filth on Acid. The label serves as a creative outlet for him and other artists who dare to deviate from conventional expectations. From unforgettable gigs worldwide to developing a nuanced understanding of AI's influence on music, Reinier Zonneveld embodies the spirit of innovation and curiosity that drives modern music forward. His story is a testament to passion, resilience, and the ever-evolving dialogue between technology and the creative arts.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Welcome and Introduction In this chapter titled 'Welcome and Introduction,' the host of Danny Rants introduces a techno superstar from the Netherlands, Rain Zonvenel. After performing in the Dream State show on Sunday, Rain joins the host for an impromptu interview. The arrangement was organized within two hours, following a chance meeting on Sunday. Rain had to reschedule flights post his Revolver performance to participate in the interview. Both are grateful for the opportunity, highlighting the artist's dedication to connecting with listeners despite tight schedules and travel adjustments.
• 00:30 - 01:30: Early Musical Journey The chapter "Early Musical Journey" delves into the early beginnings of a classically trained musician who started playing the piano at the age of three. The narrative touches upon their evolution from classical music to dance music, highlighting the influence of their parents and early exposure to music.
• 01:30 - 03:30: Transition to Electronic Music The chapter delves into the transition to electronic music, beginning with the narrator's early experiences with music. They recount having melodies in their head from a young age and being prompted to choose an instrument, starting with the piano. Initially trained in classical music, which they continue to appreciate, the narrator always harbored a desire to compose their own music. During their formal music training, there was a strong emphasis on becoming either a classically trained pianist or a jazz musician, but the narrator was inclined towards creating their own compositions alongside traditional training.
• 03:30 - 05:30: First Live Show and Challenges The chapter 'First Live Show and Challenges' begins by discussing the narrator's early exposure to music, particularly focusing on their lack of skill in composing and creating music initially. At around 10 years old, the narrator describes receiving a CD for the computer program 'Reason' from their uncle, who was a piano teacher. This program was one of the first versions for making music and served as a significant tool in the narrator's early music-making efforts. The uncle, who also taught a 'laid-back loop,' had multiple synthesizers at home. The narrator reminisces about playing with these synthesizers during visits, which sparked their interest in music.
• 08:30 - 12:00: Holland's Dance Music Culture The chapter discusses the speaker's initial experiences with creating music using a program they were unfamiliar with. They experimented without referring to the manual, leading to a gradual understanding of sound production. Their engagement with the program varied over time, coinciding with their first piano concerts at ages 10 to 12, which included both classical pieces and original compositions.
• 12:00 - 14:00: Unique Style and Influences The chapter titled 'Unique Style and Influences' narrates the experiences of the narrator who delved into modern classical music during their early years. At the age of 16, they moved to Rotterdam for studies and, having ample free time, they began exploring new musical horizons. A significant introduction to underground music came through one of their roommates who took them to a subculture venue in Rotterdam, where they attended a minimal techno party featuring the likes of Richie Hartin and hard trop geyser. These experiences contributed to shaping their music taste and style.
• 14:00 - 18:00: Career Breakthrough In this chapter titled 'Career Breakthrough', the speaker describes a pivotal moment in their career journey where they attended an event and immediately realized their passion for electronic music. The experience was enlightening, showcasing the vast potential and uncharted territories in the genre. Inspired by the possibilities and the evolving nature of electronic music, the speaker wasted no time upon returning home, eagerly connecting their computer to begin exploring and creating within the genre. This marked the start of their dedicated pursuit within electronic music, driven by the desire to innovate and contribute to its development.
• 18:00 - 23:00: Memorable Gigs and Experiences The chapter titled 'Memorable Gigs and Experiences' features the narrator's dedication to music. They share how their journey began one morning and became a daily obsession. This passion drives them to perform live shows, creating and adjusting their music on stage using synthesizers and computers. Starting out as a producer, the narrator emphasizes their love for creating their original work and improvising during performances.
• 23:00 - 26:30: Tour Stories and Challenges In this chapter, the narrator discusses the excitement and challenges of performing live music on stage. They highlight the special feeling of creating something unique during a performance and the ability to connect with the audience in the moment. The narrator also mentions the unpredictability of live shows, emphasizing the thrill that comes from not knowing exactly how things will unfold, especially when dealing with all the equipment on stage. They recall their first official show, which marked a significant point in their musical journey.
• 29:00 - 32:00: Longest Live Set and Record The chapter discusses the speaker's early experiences in live performances, mentioning underground and illegal racing events prior to official shows. The first official show mentioned took place around 2011, where the speaker utilized a variety of equipment including a hardware mixer and a laptop functioning as a sampler, alongside an external spinning hard drive.
• 32:00 - 39:00: AI Collaboration Project The chapter "AI Collaboration Project" discusses an unexpected technical setback during a live musical performance. The speaker describes how most of the set was lost due to vibrations causing a hard drive failure. However, this forced them to improvise and work within new limitations, leading to a creative breakthrough. The speaker reflects on how spontaneous creativity often yields the best results when there is no time to overthink, allowing the subconscious mind to take control.
• 39:00 - 45:30: Impact of AI on Music Industry The chapter discusses the spontaneous and fast-paced nature of performing music live, particularly in the context of the impact of AI on the music industry. It emphasizes that musicians often create elements like drum rhythms and melodies in the moment, without much pre-planning, leading to a natural and magical music creation process. The speaker reflects on past performances and notes that some older sets are still very appealing, while others created later didn't meet the same standard.
• 46:00 - 48:00: Filth on Acid Record Label The chapter discusses the importance of spontaneity in live music performances. The speaker emphasizes that preparing and rehearsing too much can lead to a loss of magic in the performance. They point out that attempting to recreate a pre-planned studio session on stage often results in being unable to capture the original magic, comparing this to 'chasing a ghost.'
• 50:00 - 51:00: Reflections on Melbourne In this chapter titled 'Reflections on Melbourne,' the author discusses the diminishing energy of certain locations over time, specifically referring to some aspects that are 'not there anymore.' Explaining their approach to live music shows, they mention the importance of spontaneity and flexibility. While they plan to include some new music they have created in the studio and possibly some popular tracks in their live sets, they prefer to not over-prepare and instead keep certain elements closer in their workspace to allow for improvisation. This approach allows them to react to the energy of the moment and maintain a dynamic performance.
• 51:00 - 51:30: Conclusion and Gratitude The chapter discusses the approach of starting creative projects without a clear plan, emphasizing spontaneity and the natural flow of work. It highlights the preference for initiating work with basic elements like drums and building from there, allowing creativity to flow without overthinking. The conversation touches on the nervousness associated with live performances, noting that the artist's main concerns lie with the functioning of the equipment rather than the performance itself. This reflects years of experience and comfort with the process, reducing anxiety about the shows and focusing more on technical aspects.

Reinier Zonneveld: The Future of Techno Is Not Human - The REAL Dangers Of AI In The Music Industry Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 Welcome back to Danny Rants. Today we have a techno superstar all the way from the Netherlands. Rain Zonvenel is here sitting across from me after his dream state show on Sunday. How are you, Raina? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. This Thank you so much for coming on. I know it was short notice. We pulled this together in about 2 hours. Yeah. I really appreciate it. We met on Sunday and uh we made it happen after your big Revolver show on Sunday. So, I really appreciate you getting out of bed to to do this one with me. Yeah, no problem. We had to rebook the flights after Revolver otherwise we'll be already gone now. But better to sit there in the sun. You're not the first artist to do that
• 00:30 - 01:00 and I don't reckon you'll be the last to book other flights out of Revolver. So firstly, I think we'll jump into it. Right. So I was reading I was reading before that one of the things that you are known for is being a classically trained uh pianist or musician I guess. So and I saw that you started at 3 years old. How like how did you start at 3 years old and how did you go from that into dance music? Well, when I was uh was 3 years old uh I started playing piano. my parents uh uh like I was the whole day uh thinking
• 01:00 - 01:30 about music. I want to create something, you know, like there was always some music in my head and uh so they asked like, "Do you want to play an instrument?" And I tried piano and that uh I really liked it and so back then u I started out classical music uh which I still do really like but I always wanted to compose my own stuff. So I did this on the side but um the training was very much focused at um um at the time more at like or you became like a classical trained pianist or like a jazz musician something like
• 01:30 - 02:00 this. Um but not so much at uh at composing and uh creating music. Um and then when I was around 10 years old I got my hands on a CD of uh Reason. It's like old computer program like one of the first versions that you can use to make music uh on from my uncle. He's a piano teacher who also teach a laid-back loop uh back then. Um and he had a lot of synthesizer standing in the room. So whenever we would go there he was like yeah you want to play around there. So I was playing the synthesizers. I really
• 02:00 - 02:30 liked it and started playing around with this uh with this program. I had no idea how it work like just clicking around and not reading the manual. So it took some time to get music out of it. At some point I was like, "Okay, it works a bit like this and this and you get some sounds out of it. It's pretty pretty interesting." So I was on and off for like one month I would do it every day. Another month that's not really. Um I was then doing my first piano concerts like around 10 11 12 like doing uh classical stuff also some my own uh more
• 02:30 - 03:00 like sort of modern classical pieces. Um but then when I got out of uh out of my parents home like I went to study in Rotterdam when I was 16 years old and then I had a lot of free time uh on my hands to to do other stuff. Uh, one of my roommates took me to a yeah to a underground venue like literally underground in Rotterdam with a party minimal techno in the time of Richie Hartin uh hard trop geyser these guys
• 03:00 - 03:30 and I came in and I was just really like uh immediately think okay [ __ ] it this is what I want to do like sounded amazing but I was also thinking there's so much room for doing stuff that's not done yet like in in in electronic music like I heard it there I was like there's so was possible. Still, it's like an evolving genre. It was very interesting for me to to see what you can do with this, you know. So, when I got got home from the party, I immediately uh yeah, hooked my computer up and um and started
• 03:30 - 04:00 to make music again on this morning. Yeah. That morning. Yeah. And since then, I've I've been doing it every day, like every day, just obsessed with it and making music and um yeah, just trying to get better at it. And that's also why I play live shows. So, I only play play my own music. And then like with synthesizers and drone computers creating it on stage so you can also adjust it uh adjust your stuff or even yeah improvise on the spot because I started really as a as a producer so to say like I really like to make my own stuff and because I've still come from
• 04:00 - 04:30 this u yeah like piano you're playing also live you know and I like I like this uh this feeling of creating something on stage give an extra excitement where you make something and you can connect with people in the moment you know that's um yeah it's super special feeling. So, and I guess there's like unpredictability to that too, right? Yeah, definitely. Because you have uh you have all the equipment on stage, which I think my first show I ever did was like the official show with like a flyer and everything, you know, like with with with like I did
• 04:30 - 05:00 underground race before that, like illegal stuff. Uh but my first official show was I think in 2011 or something like this and uh I brought up my whole uh whole live equipment back then. I had like a hardware mixer even and a lot of stuff and my laptop was basically like a sampler so I had loops in there but uh there was a hard drive attached to it like an external hard drive but back then they had like a spinning disc inside it was not SSDs but it was like a real spinning hard drive so the I
• 05:00 - 05:30 started with like a buildup and then I I dropped the the kick in the bass and the subwoofer was under the booth so the hard drive started vibrating and crest so 90% of my live set was gone which is [ __ ] And then but actually it turned out really good because I had to work with the limitations I had I you have to come up with something you know and in that moment when you don't have time to think about it you know uh I think that's when you create the best stuff and you just and your your subconscious takes over because you don't have time like you're
• 05:30 - 06:00 playing and there there's no time to pre-list what you do because you're on stage and everything goes fast. So you make for example a drum rhythm, you put it in on a machine and or you make a melody, you cannot you cannot really think like okay I'm going to do this and later that you just have to just do it without thinking and I think this is where the where the magic is in in music when you just let it go out you know and um and then later I did so first and actually when I hear that set back nowadays I still really like it like it was was really good set and then some sets years after I found like way worse
• 06:00 - 06:30 were way less good because I was preparing them beforehand and thinking too much like okay I want to do this and that and as soon as you start thinking with the with live music in my opinion then the magic is lost you know so also when you for example I I don't really um rehearse the live set in the studio because when you do that you have something super nice in the studio and you think okay this this is good I want to do this and then you're on stage and you try to recreate that stuff from from the magic moment that you had before and you're like chasing a ghost of something
• 06:30 - 07:00 that's not there anymore you know like the real uh the energy is gone then it's always less good So, I try to uh with the live shows now when I come on stage like I don't really I have an idea like okay I have some new music that I made in the studio and I want to for sure play this and this and maybe some some tracks of me that are are a bit more popular. I try to put them in. So I have to then close in my workspace so to say. It's like a very big project with a lot of stuff in it but then everything that I want to uh probably want to play all the parts are closer to my workspace. So the chance that I see them when I'm look
• 07:00 - 07:30 at my screen is bigger. But I always start with like with not with a plan, you know, I just turn on the machines and then start with some with some drums and then go from there and then because you you start like this, you get uh way easier in the flow because you you don't have time to think. So is it nerve-wracking that the fact you don't rehearse or do you think it's more nerve-wracking if you rehearse? The only nerve-wracking thing for me is usually nowadays doing this for quite some years now. So, I'm not really nervous for the for for the show itself, but the most nervous is like for the equipment like the like for example, we were in Sydney
• 07:30 - 08:00 and it started raining really heavy during the set and I think there's some videos of uh of Kiki holding uh like towels over my equipment because it was like raining like on the 909 on the 101 and everything like on the laptop. So, we covered everything with towels and then when I need to look on the screen, she would lift the towel then I could look under it and then uh this this is only the most nerve-wracking thing. At some point there was a layer of water like this and uh luckily everything kept working but um this is the most nerve-wracking thing but I make sure now
• 08:00 - 08:30 that I have everything like double with me so if something crashes I have like a replacement extra cables and things because like all these crashes that can happen with with dragging so much stuff around in the last Yeah. 15 years you had all the kinds of crashes you had at some point you know so you you get better at it. Totally. So you said before your uncle had taught Layback Luke as a piano. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So with when you talk about Holland and dance music, they're one in one, right? Like it's probably they've probably been the leader of of dance music for the last couple of decades at minimum, why do you think that Holland
• 08:30 - 09:00 is such a is such a space for dance music? Um, and like like the sort of beginning of it and normally when a genre blows up, there's some form of influence there. Why do you think that it's such a mecca for dance music? a very good coffee we have in all. No, I think it's because uh um somewhere in the culture I think like it's very normal to listen to dance music. We have like on the radio we had like back in the ' 90s when I was a kid we had uh a lot of these trans classics back then they were just like charting
• 09:00 - 09:30 in the on the radio and this was as a kid you heard this music everywhere. Uh so yeah it's kind of natural. I think there's also if you look at the amount of events in Holland like the amount of festivals that we have for the amount of people that live there is like insane. There's so much choice uh of music and it's a really good thing that nowadays also the basically since corona like you see that the music developed a lot and like really a lot in a short amount of time. Um, everything is more open-minded now. Like back in the days, you had 10
• 09:30 - 10:00 years ago, you had a certain type of techno sound that if you didn't like I would send music to labels and they would just send back like this is [ __ ] because it doesn't sound like my label basically like this. And uh for me this is very limiting like for the creative process, you know, and I started like to make tracks and okay, it needs to fit on a label. It needs to sound like this. You lock yourself in some sort of space where you don't really get get something new out. And I have to think that nowadays people are just making stuff and if it rocks the dance floor, nobody
• 10:00 - 10:30 cares, you know. So true. Yeah, that's nice. I like it. I've crazy story. So my wife is actually from Holland. So she comes from a little town called Hus. It's like down there in south. Yeah. Yeah. And I was there and this blew my mind from being from Australia. So it was a town there. It's like the center of the town. I don't know. What do you call the center of the town there? Uh in No, no, just in general like every town has one. Like a town square. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're in a town square and there was like a Sunday night. Yeah. And they and they basically had like a rave, a full-blown all ages rave with like I reckon there was 10,000 people
• 10:30 - 11:00 there and there was like 13-year-old kids like raving on the stage with all these massive artists and I'm like what this is like ingrained in your culture. So it blew my mind like how connected you guys are to dance music because it's not just like you said it's not just it's not it's charts on the mainstream radio you know kids as young as five are listening to it. It's sort of is it the number one genre there? Uh no I wouldn't say that. I think you have of course still your pop music but I think nowadays like back when I was in uh university
• 11:00 - 11:30 like 16 years ago now more 18 years ago now u I would not even tell that I would go to techno events because people find it very weird and they would think you're completely [ __ ] or something so I that was something he didn't talk about you would just go into the woods to illegal race or like there were some clubs you had of course awakenings then that was big and they did the big festivals that became a bit more popular like in in a couple of years time around 2010 like it became became bigger and uh and nowadays it's like completely normal
• 11:30 - 12:00 people go to to festivals like there's like uh people like they go with their parents to rave you know like it's fun for the whole family so should be yeah that's super nice so it became yeah much more uh more open and like like everybody every different kind of people go to parties and uh that's a good thing I think yeah so you talked on before about how your style. You don't want to fit in a box, right? So, you have a very unique style. Um, if someone was didn't know what music you make, how would you describe it? Yeah.
• 12:00 - 12:30 Well, I actually make like a lot of stuff. So also I did film music uh hip- hop beats uh like classical pieces on the side but mostly when I play like as like under my own name uh it it changes actually from year to year a bit like a lot actually because I just I try to make music you know when you're on a party that it really like hits hard and you just I I like a lot of energy you know so when you very bombastic very uh emotional sometimes but also very
• 12:30 - 13:00 intense like really uh The term we like to use here is tough. Yeah. Tough. Yeah. Like the music's tough. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I like that. But I also like sometimes have like a little edge of something like go a bit deeper, something emotional or like something you don't expect, you know, and then uh but it has to definitely has to be tough. Has to has to pound 100%. So when you were at university in Rotterdam, you're making music on synthesizers in your apartment. At what point did it start looking like this could actually be a career for you? Uh no. Well, it was a bit weird because um I had some people
• 13:00 - 13:30 where I was saying like, "Okay, it's the the music is so good like you will you will get there." But then I was doing these live shows and mostly Illegal Ra. So basically till I said till 2014 I was then releasing on uh on like big labels like I released on Miners from Richie Hartin and later also on Drum Code from Adam Bayer uh Tonic like like big labels back then. Uh and everybody everybody was playing the track. So I would go to Awakenings in 2014 like every DJ there
• 13:30 - 14:00 played one or two tracks for me. Uh which is actually great. It's actually more fun almost than playing yourself when you're out of your face. You're standing there and out of nowhere comes your track, you know, on a on a big festival. I was like, "Fuck, that's good." But then it's also a bit frustrating because I know these tracks they work and everybody was playing them like Carl Cox army von uh like but also like the underground names you know like uh uh uh the real underground has basically everybody like from uh from the EDM guys to to the techno underground and it was very frustrating
• 14:00 - 14:30 because I was not making money with it only cost the money like the equipment and stuff and the illegal raves like obviously you don't get paid for that but there's also the risk that they take your stuff but you don't run fast enough and the police comes you So um so I almost gave up. I almost quit it uh to try to pursue this because it just didn't happen. Like I got some bookings here and there like for example like a mystery land like a big big festival I think 2015 they booked me on the main stage to open which was yeah huge like
• 14:30 - 15:00 Martin Gar was closing that day I think but yeah when you open there's also not too many people yet but it's a huge honor. uh but it was just not getting there and then when I finished I did finish my study and yeah it was a bit delayed like I started all over at some point and then I saw with my student dep I I have problem you know so then I uh then I quickly finished my master's degrees and that I got offered a job at um like like a at a at a bank like as an
• 15:00 - 15:30 investor real estate investment u because I did corporate fin real estate finance I would never work at a bank because I don't like this this world. It's not for me. But I I would probably do do something like research. I like to research things. You know why things happen? Like that's always find fascinating you know especially with uh economics like a lot of things if you understand how this these kind of systems work. You can understand also a lot about the world because a lot of people are just chasing money in the end and uh it's very fascinating to see how that works. But um I almost was like
• 15:30 - 16:00 okay maybe I just look for this job you know and uh then my parents actually said like no just try to do music because you're almost at that point that you can can maybe earn enough money to pay the rent yourself you know and everything just try it for one year and if it doesn't work then you can always pursue a normal job. That's so cool man your parents told you to do Yeah, it was really nice. And then uh yeah, it was great advice. Somehow when I when I finished studies, it was like end of
• 16:00 - 16:30 2014, 2015, something like this. And then I sent out a demo to Oliver Kletki from Stillford the Land. It was one of the biggest labels back then, German guy. And I I had all these tracks that I I knew they worked, you know. I would play them at at parties and they would they would go off, but they were a bit weird. like they were hard but also melodic but also like hit it way harder than than uh than just uh um it was just different you know so that made it very hard to sign and he just sent me like he called me actually
• 16:30 - 17:00 I sent him six tracks I already sent them to like five labels and they were all not interested and then I sent to him and then he called me and he said like okay this is really really good like uh I would like to do next year an album with you and uh I would like to release all these tracks all these so we did two EPs and Um then I released the the first EP and became pretty charted pretty good and uh then he took me on tour in Germany like in 2016 in uh he took me on his shows uh and and he did pretty big shows there but he would put
• 17:00 - 17:30 me not as an opener but after him as a closer so I had like 3,000 people standing there that didn't know me and I could just do my live set and throw all my tracks and people loved it and like in a super short amount of time because of that I got very uh popular in Germany and then suddenly in Holland, all all these festivals that didn't book me. We're like, "Oh, this guy's blowing up in Germany. We need to book him." Okay. And then uh that same year I was playing in China. I think I went the first time to Australia then also with the hardware group back in 2016. I'm pretty I was actually involved
• 17:30 - 18:00 in that gig. I'm pretty sure you played a boarding car. It was called Despar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was That's like nine years ago now. Yeah. It was like I was thinking the other day it was long long time ago, but yeah. So, me and Kyle and I were partners back then still. Yeah. It was [ __ ] funny. Yeah. I don't think I It's like die body. Yeah. Yeah. I flew them in on uh it was like six shows or something like in one weekend and I just started and just went on the whole weekend and then I had to go to the airport and uh uh yeah, that was not
• 18:00 - 18:30 that was not one of the best flights of my life, I have to say. But we had a lot of fun. It was [ __ ] amazing. And uh since then, I've been coming back like almost every year here and uh yeah, it feels always good memories. You've obviously been traveling around the world now for a good part of a decade close on. Yeah. Um is there like some gigs that you've got you think about with locations for example, not necessarily big festivals, but like some awesome [ __ ] locations you've played at that just blow you away still to this day when you think back at them. Yeah, it's a question I get a lot. It's always hard to answer because it sounds very
• 18:30 - 19:00 cheesy but there's so so many good parties nowadays like uh um like everywhere in the world like you couldn't think of it but name a country and they they have good parties you know like I've been to like places like where you would never expect a good party like Micious for example or or place in India where it was never before where they had like [ __ ] big race of people going completely off and uh all around the world there's good places but I think Yeah, I really like it when you have
• 19:00 - 19:30 like also here in Melbourne you have this and then see like like dedicated fans, you know, who really like to live properly and like yeah, that's always nice to be then the feeling is sort of the same but also different because of the location and the people. Uh, it's just different everywhere, you know. If you go to a party in Colombia or you go to party here or in Argentina or or in uh or or in US or whatever, it's like it's a bit kind of the same because everybody loves the same music, but it's also very different because the people are different, but uh yeah, there's too many good parties
• 19:30 - 20:00 really. Yeah, there's of course you have like things like Tomorrowland. I play the main stage there. Awakening is always great. I've been a resident there for for a long time. Uh time warp. Um, we also love my own events I do together with Free Your Mind in Holland, the EC stuff. Uh, we have some great parties uh with Bound Festival, Bogotaa, Colombia, like of course here with the hardware group in uh here in Melbourne, Sydney, everywhere. And it's nice that like a lot of times you come alo back with the same organization because it's good, you know, and uh you get to know the people
• 20:00 - 20:30 better and uh going back to the same place at some point. It feels a bit like coming home. It's nice for sure. Yeah, definitely. So you just mentioned a whole bunch of places like India, Colia, you know, I've seen you done Brazil. You basically done everywhere that you can do when it comes to dance music. Because of that, sure you've got some crazy tour stories of like times where you're like, "Fuck me." Do you have any crazy tour stories you can share with us? Uh yeah. How crazy do you want to hear? Go as crazy as you. I was, for example, was one time here in Australia. I think I
• 20:30 - 21:00 was that wasn't his first tour. And there was this guy there with a with a big big penthouse or something. I'm not sure. I think it was Bulong. Bulong. Yeah. Okay. I think. And we went there and there was this huge party and this this mansion there and but I was also seeing like, okay, everything closed here at 12:00. It's full of police. Everything is super strict. And this guy had like a huge sound system in his living room. 50 60 people raving, the balcony open and everybody going
• 21:00 - 21:30 pretty mental. So I was walking around there. I said, "Yeah, okay. This is not my place, you know. [ __ ] that shit." So I'm walking, I go to piss and I come back and I look on this like this TV screen to monitor the the front door and there's like 10 20 cops or something. They're standing open the door otherwise we force it. So I'm like, "Okay, am I tripping or is this really happening?" So I go to the owner and I'm like, "I think there's somebody in front of the door." And at that moment they just forced the door open and it's like go down the fire stairs like everybody running. It was [ __ ] up. But uh but
• 21:30 - 22:00 yeah, we made it. And uh luckily not my problem. But uh yeah, it was fun. Um I was sort of happy that one of your favorite tourists is in Australia to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the really craziest things I did was like uh like in 2021 like when everything got opened up again like after Corona we had uh I had planned for this King's Day is called in Holland it's like the birthday of the king and it's like a big big big party like everybody goes crazy. So I
• 22:00 - 22:30 had prepared for King's Night. That's the night before King's Day. That's when everybody starts partying. Um I prepared an all nighter. So I was playing I think 8 or 10 hour live which like I mean this is really long like when you do with live set like uh normally this is like an hour or something like you need to see a lot of music and you're all the time doing this so it's like super draining which I love because at some point you cannot yeah you get you forget where you're standing you know just in the music and just disappear and it's just music you know I love this but uh I
• 22:30 - 23:00 I had this planned and like people were a bit unhappy because it got moved and then got moved again and they were like yeah [ __ ] is this party still happening, you know. So, uh uh and then the day after was like an Amsterdam stadium show in the Olympic stadium and this was uh on like 27 April and but I also had a rescheduled tour with K Cox the pure party which was super excited for because Kox like one of my favorite DJs big legend you know legend the biggest
• 23:00 - 23:30 the king you know and uh um yeah he he invited me to play with him on this on the Pur tour um and this got moved And this was like uh I think Friday, Saturday, Sunday, three shows, three cities and then on Tuesday was King's Day and on Monday night was uh my all nighter. So basically I went to Australia. So I flew on Wednesday to Australia. Then he arrived here at Thursday night. Then I played Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Then after the last
• 23:30 - 24:00 show I immediately went to the airport with no sleep. flew back to Amsterdam. 24 hours, 26 in total. Then I arrived, uh, took a shower, got dressed, and then I went straight to my all nighter, played all night, took a shower, and then went to the Olympic Stadium for the other show. Then went went to the airport, and then they uh uh they didn't let me board for that flight because my uh uh like the check-in was just closed. I don't know. Maybe it was I was not looking too fresh and this guy just thought, "Okay, this guy calls you 1
• 24:00 - 24:30 hour before the flight." Yeah. Like, what the [ __ ] passing the line there and then uh uh um after some hassle I still arrived back in Australia. Luckily it went all good but so I basically went straight back to Australia again arrived and did again three shows and flew back. So there was like 110 hours of flying in one week. I never do that again. No, definitely not. No. When you're touring around all the time, like how do you deal with that? Like you talk about obviously that's the extreme side of it,
• 24:30 - 25:00 but like how do you take care of yourself? Will you actually do that or you don't? Yeah. Well, like I think if you really love what you do and uh if you uh know a bit your limits like I'm pretty good with no sleep or like a little sleep like in general and I'm rested. I I sleep maybe 3 hours per night and then I'm good and then I just wake up and I cannot sleep anymore. So So you made for it. Yeah, I think so. Like uh uh that aspect but it's Yeah, you have to just take care of what you for everybody's different you know. So with uh also with drinking or like uh exhausting yourself with almost no sleep
• 25:00 - 25:30 or you know like try to eat a bit bit healthy where possible but I think if you really like what you do and uh then it's all worth it you know like like even with the story from flying up and down to Australia when I was in the plane okay [ __ ] like like if there's it's good that there's no tree inside the plane I would have hang myself there I think. But it's the adrenaline right? The adrenaline just get you pumping. Yeah. But then as soon as you get out and you see the people and everybody's excited and you you you put on the Yeah. You put in your synthesizers and you you yeah you just start making music and people get excited for the adrenaline rush and like the it's just so nice to
• 25:30 - 26:00 share the music with people and to to connect like without words you know like you can everybody is in his own way feels in their own way like the same thing then you know and you can just share without saying anything like an like a good moment with people and have a good time and that sounds super cheesy but then it's all worth it you know then I don't give a [ __ ] okay I'm tired just so what you know and then uh yeah I still love it Yeah, I totally get that. I'm the same. Like it's like for me I'm always jeed up still. You know on the weekend I went to Intercell. There was a
• 26:00 - 26:30 Rayon sat down to the bridge and I went to Dream Stage and I went to Drake. It's like but I don't care. Like second like you know I'm just you kind of sucked the energy up from the crowd. Nice. Yeah. I was in good brand also. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. BTSS from Poland there. She was awesome. Yeah. And then Patrick Mason was the headliner. Yeah. Nice. Cool guy also. Yeah. Yeah. That's the next part of my question. So obviously you tour around all the time. Do you have like a little bit of an alumni, I guess, of of DJs that you no doubt crash into all over the world? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. you see like a lot of uh the same faces
• 26:30 - 27:00 like often you know it's always fun when you get somewhere and you you meet uh you meet people that uh you're bit bit in the same like being in the same boat you know so you're all there without traveling the world without with not enough sleep partying a bit too hard you know and then uh it's nice to meet from the other faces and there's a lot of really nice people around in the scene and uh uh yeah super nice like definitely you have some favorites um yeah there's a lot DJs alike. But uh I was
• 27:00 - 27:30 um at the moment I think yeah actually there's too many good stuff going on around now. It's like also hard to compare like and in general like there's so many different types of DJs now and the sound like yeah I like this for this weekend was uh Charlie Sparks was playing and he had a show at refs and did a surprise back to back with him and like this sound is so different than for example uh yeah like say for example S&Ts or something which I really like but it's like
• 27:30 - 28:00 um sort of completely different but also the same as like people just do what what they love and Uh people go crazy on it and it works, you know. Um and people up for it now. Like people are up for like listening to different stuff. Yeah, definitely. You talked about Revolver, how you just did the um back toback with Charlie over that weekend, the surprise back to back on that. Do you have like a favorite nightclub like that around the world that you love the most? Um I used to do uh all night in the marketina the uh it means like the
• 28:00 - 28:30 market market canina or something if you translate literally in Amsterdam. Uh and it was like I think one of my favorite clubs because I I started doing my first all nighters there in 2017 or something. I I think it did through the throughout the years maybe maybe 20 now 30 or something like there just all nighters and it was like the perfect club because it was not too dark not too bright the right people coming like very mixed and everybody
• 28:30 - 29:00 having a good time like very positive you know like not this I like also sometimes a dark club but like for an all nighter nice to have like a bit of more positive vibe you know what I mean so for me this was the perfect place always but unfortunately they have to close like uh couple years ago So I think that was Yeah. Definitely my favorite club in the world I think. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So you keep saying all nighters because you're well known for super super long sets. Yeah. And you actually have a world record world record for longer set. Can you run
• 29:00 - 29:30 us through what made you do that and like I guess the process of how you did it? Uh yeah. So like the the difference is like uh when you do a DJ set you just uh play tracks any track you want. So mostly tracks of other people for example. Uh and uh uh with live you have to you compose on the spot but like uh you do basically what it means you do just your own track. So the stuff that you made yourself and uh this is like uh I think the longest live set before this was like 5 hours and I did like four and
• 29:30 - 30:00 a half was the record before I did 11 hours 11 minutes. Uh, and they had lost like it was like official. So there was like um somebody for the junior world record was there to see if you were really playing that time but there was also camera set up I think so that they know if if it's like really live. So for example there were rules like you can for example do a remix like for for example remix of Insomnia from Fateless. So I can use the vocal of that but like
• 30:00 - 30:30 the rest has to be I cannot really sample half of the track and put a different beat under it. you know, this is not it's not live. So, it needs to be really like uh live. You play stuff on your synthesizer on your drum computers all the time. And I also al also do this always, but I don't like it when there's [ __ ] camera on it. So, for this, I don't know. I don't like it. You know, it's fine as people look, but but yeah, this just feels weird. So, it's different than yeah, other moments. And uh but yeah, but it gives a really I did before actually one time at 12 hour 20
• 30:30 - 31:00 minutes, but then there was no judge there. So it was it was never officially recorded as a world record. Um but uh I I love these long sets because when you do this, you get uh I know when I did it for the first time that that you really get ideas that you would never get when you're in a studio or or in a shorter set because your brain just at some point you cannot your brain cannot keep up. If you do something so focused for so long it parts of your brain just shut off and you start going on automatic pilot, you know, and uh this is when you get really
• 31:00 - 31:30 in the zone. At some point you're really just at the same time as you're thinking like you're playing some something on your synthesizers and you you you just think of how you're going to change that you're not actually even thinking that you're pressing buttons anymore. You're almost like connecting with the machine. Yeah. Really. And also with the crowd you like without almost looking at them. You're like, you feel the energy then so good, you know, like you because you're already in this in this room or actually whether the the record was like a festival with 20,000 people there and one on stage and you've you've been with this crowd also through this whole
• 31:30 - 32:00 journey like starting starting off deeper and going to all different sides of music that you normally cannot show and then it's really like something you do all together. So you get a lot of energy from the crowd and you sort of get to know them already better because you're playing playing there for so long. So you get them at some point you get to a level that you feel what's going on on that party and the feedback loops then between the crowd and energy you get from them and what you're creating and you're also then completely tripping out in the sense that like you're just in this music then and the stuff that you didn't get in the last hours like this is uh that's the best
• 32:00 - 32:30 feeling ever like just everything goes automatically and then you see it back and you're like holy [ __ ] did this happen you know this is really uh yeah this is really nice yeah that's so cool and it ties into another project I know you're doing right so you just said connecting with a machine and you actually are now currently connecting with a machine. You have a project called A2 and it's like an a you versus an AI from my understanding. Yeah. Yeah, that's uh Yeah, it's true. U it's a bit R2 actually R squ but but I actually R2
• 32:30 - 33:00 is also pretty nice. I use I use both but it's uh um it's it's a bit um um so I had a friend of me cos and uh I knew him from my uh when I was studying econometrics back in the day so and he's a very good coder he's working in finance now very smart guy and um uh we I moved at some point to Berlin and then uh we also going to parties together there that was when I was living in Berlin in 2016 2017 and it's a good friend and I think uh
• 33:00 - 33:30 when I move back to Amsterdam. He was showing we were having some beers and some stuff and at some point he was like I work with AI and it was very new talking like 2019 you know and I u asked him like okay show me how it works you know and uh I have a little bit basic understanding of coding so to say like uh just from my studies and the stuff that he showed like how fast he could do calculations or stuff that with normal coding would take you like many many hours like that he could pull it off in an instant you know And
• 33:30 - 34:00 uh then we're thinking like what can you do like just self-interest what could we do with music for this you know um then we started creating a model that is like trained on so so basically have an AI what you do is uh with normal coding you you're writing the rules for the computer like can do it calculations and with an AI system you're basically um give it a an end goal that that the computer has to reach and he can u make his own process so to day uh of reaching
• 34:00 - 34:30 that goal. So you have you want for example to um uh you want to make a piece of music, a piece of techno, but you don't tell them how to do it. You just give them like a set of things to learn from and then it makes itself better and better with each new version that it writes itself and then there comes a sort of magic box out of it and it's able to generate stuff. So that's yeah pretty crazy. So, we were trying this out and uh the thing what we did was like I have a lot of recordings for my own music like from uh everything also the stuff
• 34:30 - 35:00 that I made back in the days uh uh uh on my old computer like when I was 10 I have everything still. So I have uh that is a year ago that the check but back then I had like 82 days of music. So if you would start playing now uh you would have music for 82 days. Most of it is absolute garbage of course, but we found that for the for the model, it can still learn from this. It doesn't need to be perfect, you know, like you can also say like make the music of the last couple of years I made to make it count more in
• 35:00 - 35:30 the model. There's like very a lot of tricks you can do with this. And basically um we were able to train uh because of this huge data set to train this AI on just just my own stuffs and not on other people's music. So first we gave it like uh maybe I make some little bit mistakes here because I didn't code it myself but for my understanding how it works because it's pretty complex. It's like you sort of learn what music is, basic music theory. Uh make it understand like sort of terms of how to talk about music, you know, like what so that it understands like things like
• 35:30 - 36:00 make me uh uh drum and bass rhythm or something like this, you know. Um so that was the first step and then we trained it on all my my music and tweaked the model a lot. We came with a a model that can uh generate just a random track like random Yeah. just press a button and make something which actually pretty was in the beginning you have to tweak this model in the beginning sometimes it come just like noise like like super weird sounds but at some point it got better and better
• 36:00 - 36:30 and it comes like really music out that it really sounds like I could have made it but it's also new you know so it's pretty interesting and um then we have other option is like to do a prompt and I wanted to use this at the uh at the festival like where I was playing back to back but then you like you basically ask the computer like uh make something like make a hard techno track that uh uh has a sound on the drop something like this. You know, this also works, but the chance that something is uh like or very very good or very very bad gets way
• 36:30 - 37:00 bigger. So, it's like on average there's a good chance that it's not not really usable or not good enough to uh to use in a live situation. So, we waited with using this. Uh and then we had like the the thing that we use that's continuation it's called and there it listens to something you already have. So, I'm this is what we did at the festival. So we built like a festival with um um we had eight stages there and one of the stage the main stage I did at the end of the day the the R squared show. So we had a um a container in the
• 37:00 - 37:30 back of the this huge stage there with a big screen and behind we had a container with a supercomput like with all this uh these graphic cards you know this Nvidia cards for uh for AI uh in it. Uh I mean yeah so K came there to set us up and like five screens standing there because he has to debug you know if something crashes uh with AI he could fix it then you know did it for the first time in this situation so he turns on the computer within 5 minutes of testing it at 11:00 in the morning it overheated because the container it's just a metal container with sun on it so the computer
• 37:30 - 38:00 started overheating so they cut a hole in the side put air conditioning in to make it work but uh uh yeah during the show what what what this system did It listens to what I'm doing and then I press a button and then it starts generating music that sort of continues from where I left. So I I can just put a channel of the eye open and it's it starts continuing what I'm doing. So uh and then it makes it completely new decision. So it can change the melody, it can change the yeah it just makes something new out of it. Uh but at the
• 38:00 - 38:30 same time I can still on my other channels play new drums on top or do something myself with the synthesizer and then it also reacts to this. So, it's really like playing when you do back to back with another artist and you don't know what he's going to do. And playing with this AI is kind of the same experience because it you know what what is it's going to sound like a little bit you it's probably not going to come suddenly hip-hop out because it's trained on techno but you still don't know what exactly is coming. This gives nice twist and uh it was a nice experiment so to say to try this out but it was not all the time playing. It was
• 38:30 - 39:00 more like it was a 2-hour set and I think in total I don't know exactly but I think 10 to 15 minutes AI that was doing something but never alone. I tried I did like two drops just AI but this is bit rushing red of course because I really don't know what's coming and I'm not pre-listing so I just put the channel open. It was actually pretty cool but then uh the other like 10 to 15 minutes I used I was just playing on top of it. But um it was also more an experiment like um to see how this AI thing works because it's also very interesting
• 39:00 - 39:30 nowadays or interesting and pretty scary also um for for every every type of job actually what it means. So I also want to understand it better and I I knew there was a lot a lot of hate on social media because they're now talking already for I don't know how long about this. It's not something you can explain in one sentence what it is you know. So people see the word AI and they were like [ __ ] you. destroying music and stuff, but the whole point why I trained it on just my own music is because I think when it's just trained on my own music, I that's still me, you know, like
• 39:30 - 40:00 I didn't put music from uh from Jeff Mills and Richie Hartton in, you know, like and for me this is a thing and um I also tried for example what happens if you put 30 tracks in only and what what you have then is like you really hear parts of these tracks back. So for me it's kind kind of I I realized that that training uh uh an AI system is actually stealing in a new way like when uh when like the books were like the first books were invented like how to
• 40:00 - 40:30 press books I don't know the words in English like in Dutch is called book you know when they started pressing books this is the moment when copyright uh is invented the copyright the right to copy the book and I think we're now at a new point in time where we invented something But we don't really know how to call it. This is not copyright anymore. Because before, okay, you had like you have somebody's track, you sample part of it, you take it now, you copied it, you can say, okay, this guy took this part and then you he has to pay royalties to to the original artist. This was all fixed with
• 40:30 - 41:00 copyright. Nowadays, it is possible to take a whole bunch of artists together and steal all their styles completely. And it is way worse than copyright because somebody can build from your style basically from all your all your hard work and creativity of people. It doesn't count only for music but also for for photography for videography for every art form you know like uh they can steal a complete style of an artist which actually pretty frightening and they can do it pretty convincing also nowadays and like even
• 41:00 - 41:30 the I mean we made this model just with one uh one guy and and me as the as the musical part of it and we already managed to make like okay I wouldn't say it sounds doesn't sound as good as the tracks I produce myself but it's still workable and we had it on the festival and people were going crazy on some things that the AI could generate it, you know. So, um this also made me think like how to approach this and uh uh the in Holland there's like a rights organization. It's called Bim Stamina. I I think every country has one. It's like
• 41:30 - 42:00 the ones that when you do a party, they come to you and they take a percentage of your ticket money to pay it out to the artist, you know. Appreh. Yeah, exactly. And uh now this finally we got to a level where they actually started paying DJs a bit for the tracks they produce. you know, we have DJ monitor and stuff uh in holiday analysis here, but they make sure that uh uh yeah, they know what's being played at festivals and they try to pay out everybody as good as they can, which is a very good thing because yeah, the the the artists who make the music that get played at events should get paid, of course. Um and uh they contacted me if I wanted to
• 42:00 - 42:30 go with with them uh to uh the European Parliament in U so to to uh to talk with people there about uh yeah what we should do with these rules and uh I first thought okay I come there you shake some hands and everybody's like ah [ __ ] you have bigger problems here you know bigger fish to fry but they were actually uh I was really surprised uh I'm not really into politics but not at all actually I hated I hate it in the sense like it would be nothing for me you like uh uh but but
• 42:30 - 43:00 then then I um came there and they were actually really interested and they were more like what's your experience with AI? Can you explain like I don't understand can you explain what you did step by step and we ended up meeting like five six people there from the parliament and the commission and the the talks were supposed to be 10 minutes but in the end was sat there for hours with them and they were really taking note of this and there were also like from every country where uh like uh all these um music organizations they they sent the directors and stuff there for presentation later and they took it
• 43:00 - 43:30 really serious and uh I'm trying now to uh together with some other companies that were doing this to make a system or a solution and I I don't have the solution yet because it's pretty complex but to find maybe with some very smart guys who can code good like to find a solution how to pay the artists that uh were involved in training the systems because AI in general is really cool and it's really nice but when you train an AI on uh on on the thousand different artists in
• 43:30 - 44:00 whatever type of art it is these people should get paid and not only the company who makes the AI because the AI itself the system this is just a mathematical equation with a very comp very very competitive um very complex uh calculation but in the end the real work is from the artist. So, we're trying now to uh to help a little bit there to find to find a way to to pay the artist and also to make sure that people are aware of uh what is happening. And it's really like
• 44:00 - 44:30 you could really destroy a whole cultural scene like like in every art form if if nobody does anything now. I mean, when I started with music, I was already afraid I couldn't make a living with it. You know who who the [ __ ] is now going to make art if you know that there's an AI with one press of the button can make something pretty convincing like this sense like nobody will pursue it anymore at some point if if you don't have a a viable way of uh uh financially surviving with it you know so it's like protecting creativity in a sense yeah definitely because it's AI cannot stop
• 44:30 - 45:00 anymore this is here you know and it has a lot of dangers like in also like there like like a lot of uh serious harms for security and like like like uh yeah threats like on a on a I said like on on war levels, you know what I mean? But in the end we like for example before people go into war, they usually put on some music or start singing a song, you know what I mean? Like in the end this is such a big part of of human life that this should be
• 45:00 - 45:30 protected. You know, I think the world is very sad without music or or art. And uh I'm I'm glad actually that these people took it serious in Europe and I was really happy with this. So uh I hope that that that it's possible to find a solution for this as soon as possible. That's so cool to be involved in that though like that. I know you sort of did it as like a project on the side but like it's opened up this massive issue because you figured out how to do it and now you're you're trying to figure out how to fix it with these people and politics because you started doing it right. Actually I was I just started out of curiosity. Um and then somehow on a
• 45:30 - 46:00 in a natural way it happened that uh uh because I saw also like the concerns from people and I I I had my own concerns as well you know so um it sort of naturally just happened that naturally evolved into this and then I thought okay wait this is good thing to do and uh yeah very organically or it's I'm happy also that I started with this project because I think to really um understand better how it works you know if you If you work yourself with it and like developing AI, you also better
• 46:00 - 46:30 understand uh what the risks are and they are also solvable I think on a lot of levels and that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. So you filth on acid right you obviously you can tell if anyone's listening to this how all over the place you are with like with music genres AI you're very you love to look at different things different scope and light filid is the perfect example of that it's like your creative baby. Why did you start uh filth? I started Fil Nessa because um yeah I said it before already a bit but
• 46:30 - 47:00 um I had a lot of tracks you know that were a bit different and then labels were really um yeah they didn't want to sign it because it was too different from what they were doing and back then it was really uh it styles were so close you know like you could immediately hear like okay this is this label this that label and you had to fit in and my best tracks like on the dance floor where the tracks that they didn't want to sign. So I basically started a label. Yeah. Just
• 47:00 - 47:30 to release these tracks that that nobody wanted. Um and yeah, it turned out really good. It was uh yeah, it worked great. We had um we started it and then like I think in the second or third year of the label, second year, we already did a track with Kox on it. It was mind-blowing. was uh I was here in the studio uh uh in Australia with him and we were making this track and then somebody said hey you have this label right Phil Nesset let's release it there and I was like you know like this I didn't know
• 47:30 - 48:00 what to say I was like yeah super happy and it's like since then also we got so many big names in it's like ridiculous like we had so many great collabs there um we work with uh yeah like we have 200 artists on the label now that we work with and like we had so many good good tracks and now it's really like a like a dream come true because yeah in in the beginning when you start a label it's always like hard to get uh the music you want and now a lot of people have an idea like okay uh they come with tracks that they think
• 48:00 - 48:30 will work for the label in a sense you know and usually these are also really good so you get like so many so much good music to send and that's that's a good feeling it's really really nice and you still AR it too don't you still AR the record label yeah yeah yeah take some time sometimes and if the I I remember that uh uh I I sent a demo to Minus to Richie Halton and I remember that uh I was a bit like why the [ __ ] is this guy not replying replying a year
• 48:30 - 49:00 later you know like and I was like okay that takes long you know get patient I keep the track but I get it because you you need if you get so much music sent and you do it and you do it yourself it's impossible to reply in a week also sometimes I get a track and I I like it but I need to hear it different times cuz I want to hear it um like in action, you know, and I play live, so for me it's hard to test tracks of other people. Usually I do some sort of live remix or I give it to some friends who DJ, you know, and then they send me a video of how it works. But uh
• 49:00 - 49:30 but I also want to hear it on a Wednesday or in the airplane, you know, like in different moods, the track can be pretty different. And so it's not always immediately like some tracks you get sent that you know okay this we need you know but some tracks are also sometimes you get produc five or six or seven good tracks and I'm like okay they're all good and then I really need to think for let it sink in for a couple of months like where can we place this which track should we do should we take it take some time to uh yeah you need some time to um
• 49:30 - 50:00 uh to get to know the tracks so yeah but it's nice it's uh it's still also fun to to hear new music and uh especially now we get Yeah. There's so much new exciting music like people just doing random stuff and like things you never heard before, you know, and this is this is [ __ ] nice. So, I know you've got a dinner booking and we're we're probably cutting into it a little bit. So, this will be my last question. Yeah. So, you've played in Melbourne plenty of times. Yeah. I have to ask this cuz I'm a Melbourne boy. Where on my chest and
• 50:00 - 50:30 my heart, what do you Yeah. Melbourne boy, what what's your thoughts on Melbourne as a as a progressive sort of city? Yeah, I love it. Like like uh yeah, it's it's a beautiful city, of course. Like look, it's amazing, but also the people and everything. I don't know. It's just like uh I was really looking forward when I go uh when I go to to Australia, but also in Melbourne especially like just the the way of living here and how the people are like it's Yeah, I like it really a lot. It's
• 50:30 - 51:00 very good party also. Like people go pretty crazy. It's uh Yeah, very warm welcome always. I might cut that out and send it to Victorian government for um tourism. So, let's send an invoice. Awesome. Thank you so much for sitting down with me at last minute. I really appreciate your time and we're going to end it there cuz you got to eat. Um so, I guess for me, thank you so much for being such a pioneer and everything we talk about today has been so stupidly interesting. So, I really appreciate it and you've blown my mind. I've learned a lot of things from this conversation, too. So, I just want to say thank you
• 51:00 - 51:30 for coming down. Thank you for playing to everybody here and thank you for being you. Mel's boys. Yeah. Represent. You're a legend. Thank you, man. Thank you, man.