Unveiling the Truth Behind Fitness Fads

Stan Efferding Exposes Functional Fitness, Fake Gurus, and Bad Science

AI-generated summary and notes. Check quotations, numbers, and important claims against the source video. Captions may contain errors.

Watch the source video on YouTube

Estimated reading time: 109 minutes for the text on this page.

Summary

In this enlightening episode of Mark Bell's Power Project, Stan Efferding dives deep into the intricacies of functional fitness, exposing the challenges it presents due to its lack of measurable and progressible metrics. He argues that personal effort surpasses passive treatments and highlights the importance of individualized training methods that promote measurable progress. Efferding also critiques dietary myths propagated by so-called gurus, urging viewers to rely on whole, nutrient-dense foods rather than restrictive diets. Additionally, the conversation touches on the evaluation and management of body composition, the realities of bodybuilding, and the pitfalls of over-reliance on pharmaceuticals for health concerns.

Highlights

Stan Efferding criticizes the lack of metrics in functional fitness, arguing for measurable progress in training 🏋️‍♂️
The 'guru diet' often gets it wrong, replacing nutrient-dense foods with inappropriate substitutes 🍳➡️🥜
Personalized dietary and exercise regimes are essential for maintaining health and achieving fitness goals 💪
Frequent blood tests help athletes to tailor their training and health routines effectively 🩸
Weight management can reverse or alleviate conditions like NAFLD and type 2 diabetes 🍏
Stan shares his new passion for pickleball, emphasizing the need for enjoyable physical activity 🏓

Key Takeaways

Functional fitness lacks measurable progress, emphasizing effort over passive routines 🏋️‍♂️
The "guru diet" often swaps out nutritious foods for less beneficial ones, which is counterproductive 🍳➡️🥜
Managing weight effectively can lead to significant health benefits, including reversing conditions like type 2 diabetes and NAFLD 🍏
Blood work plays a crucial role in monitoring and maintaining optimal health levels, especially for athletes 🩸
Stay active with exercises you enjoy; it aids long-term adherence to fitness regimes 🏓

Overview

Stan Efferding, in a spirited discussion on Mark Bell's Power Project, opens up about the pitfalls of functional fitness, highlighting its pitfalls due to its emphasis on non-progressible exercises. He argues that true progress in fitness is achieved through consistent effort and measurable metrics, not passive therapies.

Exploring dietary myths, Efferding deconstructs typical 'guru diets' that advocate unnecessary substitutions, such as replacing egg yolks with peanut butter. Instead, he champions the consumption of whole, nutrient-rich foods to sustain high performance and recovery.

Efferding also reflects on his personal fitness journey, emphasizing the importance of regular blood testing to monitor health markers. He advocates for a balanced approach to training and diet, one that avoids extreme measures but encourages activities you love, like his newfound addiction to pickleball.

Chapters

00:00 - 00:30: Introduction and Critique of Functional Fitness The chapter "Introduction and Critique of Functional Fitness" begins with a critique of functional fitness exercises, emphasizing that actions performed by oneself are more effective than those done for or to oneself. The critique highlights a lack of measurability and progress in functional fitness. The discussion includes a statement made to John Jones about their approach not being simply task completion, but rather building something greater. There is a depiction of a stereotype regarding big people lifting heavy weights and assumptions made about their capabilities. The chapter also mentions a particular approach to strength training, where an individual lifts a high percentage of their maximum capacity sparingly throughout the year, questioning how one can assess progress with this method.
00:30 - 01:00: Discussion on Guru Diets and Body Weight The chapter discusses the concept of 'guru diets' and their approach to weight management. A specific example mentioned is the swapping out of egg yolk for peanut butter, which is criticized as a regression rather than a healthy substitution. The conversation also touches upon personal weight experiences, with Stan mentioning a past weight of 274 pounds while maintaining single-digit body fat and some visible abs, in contrast to his current effort to reduce weight from 220 to possibly 210 pounds.
01:00 - 02:00: Reflections on Past Bodybuilding and Powerlifting The chapter reflects on past experiences in bodybuilding and powerlifting, capturing a moment of self-reflection and humor concerning physical changes visible in a video, specifically regarding a double or triple chin, and the notable size of the traps. The narrator describes struggles with managing weight, particularly the challenge of reaching 275 pounds, which required force-feeding.
02:00 - 03:00: Breaking World Records in Powerlifting The chapter "Breaking World Records in Powerlifting" recounts the narrator's experience with preparing for a powerlifting event, including managing weight through water cuts and reflecting on the uniqueness of creating call out videos. The chapter includes amusing anecdotes such as a Johnny Jackson episode that took place before the narrator's time. It highlights the creativity and foresight of producing videos in a style that was innovative for the period. The narrative captures a mix of light-hearted humor and serious dedication to the sport of powerlifting.
03:00 - 04:00: Pioneering Days of YouTube and Fitness Industry This chapter discusses the lesser-known early days of the YouTuber's career in the fitness industry, particularly focusing on their powerlifting accomplishments. It highlights the impressive feat of breaking all-time world records in powerlifting at the age of 44. The conversation hints at a foundational involvement in strength training from a younger age but emphasizes a secondary, notable powerlifting career more recently.
04:00 - 05:00: Changes in Media Consumption Over Time The chapter explores the timeline and trends in media consumption, starting with a focus on the resurgence of powerlifting at the age of 40 and the breaking of an all-time world record at 44. The narrative highlights the pivotal role of YouTube in documenting and promoting such achievements. The early days of YouTube are described, showcasing how older videos garnered hundreds of thousands of views, while more recent content like podcasts has seen a decline to tens of thousands. This suggests a notable shift in viewer engagement and content popularity over time.
05:00 - 06:00: Popularity and Recognition in Powerlifting The chapter discusses the concept of popularity and recognition, comparing past and present experiences. It highlights how limited television options were during the speaker's childhood, with only a few channels available and no remote controls, illustrating the technological and cultural changes over time.
06:00 - 07:00: Challenges of High-Performance Training The chapter delves into how high-performance training emerges in the context of a rapidly evolving media landscape. The speaker discusses the significant shift in audience patterns and media consumption, contrasting the past era of limited channels and high audience concentration, exemplified by shows like MASH, with the present's diverse and fragmented media environment. The speaker reflects on their own experiences as a pioneer in digital content creation, noting the differences in audience engagement and common cultural topics over time. The discussion implicitly ties back to the challenges faced in maintaining high performance in today's dispersed and competitive media environment.
07:00 - 08:00: Longevity and Health in Competitive Training In this chapter, the focus is on the themes of longevity and health within the realm of competitive training. There is an emphasis on the achievements of individuals who have become well-known due to their extraordinary capabilities that may have once been uncommon but are now more prevalent. The text references a standout performer, perhaps named Colton, who has achieved an impressive total of 2625 or 2645 in some unspecified measure, indicating his exceptional standing in the field. The speaker reflects on how some individuals have surpassed others in ways that were unforeseen or remarkable.
08:00 - 09:00: Experience with Bodybuilding and Powerlifting In this chapter, the focus is on the exceptional achievements of a young powerlifter, noted for potentially being one of the best of all time and a world record holder. The discussion highlights his impressive Instagram following, signifying his popularity and influence. His remarkable skills are emphasized, particularly through anecdotes of his flawless performances in lifting – including perfect bench presses and squats with notable depth and form. His prowess in these areas is acknowledged as 'hammering' each lift effortlessly.
09:00 - 10:00: Blood Work and Health Monitoring This chapter discusses the analysis of a person's lifting performance, specifically focusing on squats, dead pauses, and deadlifts. The subject has potentially gained 20 lbs, showcasing strong effort and form during the lifting process, particularly in deadlifts where the lockout and hold were notable. The narrative also touches on the visual perception of sumo deadlifts on video versus their actual execution, noting that they appear faster than they feel. There is an implication that the individual had the capacity for even heavier lifts.
10:00 - 11:00: Effects of Diet and Drugs on Performance This chapter explores the influence of diet and drugs on performance, focusing on the experiences of a 24-year-old record holder in terms of popularity and achievements. Larry Wheels is highlighted as a successful figure who gained massive followers, thanks in part to his involvement in bodybuilding, powerlifting, and the world's strongest bodybuilder competitions. The discussion includes the benefits of diverse engagements in sports, implying an intersection between athletic prowess, public appeal, and the impact of nutritional and pharmaceutical aids.
11:00 - 12:00: Risks and Sacrifices in Competitive Fitness The chapter "Risks and Sacrifices in Competitive Fitness" discusses the journey of a well-known figure in arm wrestling who has significantly influenced young people to pursue the sport. The individual is characterized by his versatile talents, including achievements in bodybuilding, powerlifting (with world records), and strongman competitions. His multifaceted abilities and accomplishments serve as inspiration and fascination to many, demonstrating the risks and sacrifices inherent in pursuing a diverse and competitive fitness career.
12:00 - 13:00: Impact of Extreme Training and Competition The chapter discusses the impact of extreme training and competition, focusing on individuals who achieve incredible physical feats. It highlights the perception and criticism that accompanies such achievements, particularly when body image comes into play. The example of Eric Sto, who could bench press 700 lbs, is used to illustrate these points. Despite his remarkable strength, Sto faced unjust remarks about his physique, showcasing the harsh judgments that can overshadow the actual accomplishments of athletes. The discussion reflects on how extraordinary athletes are often misunderstood and their achievements minimized due to superficial perceptions.
13:00 - 14:00: Health and Fitness Post-Competition The chapter discusses the unique and exceptional traits of certain individuals in the realm of sports and fitness, using Larry Wheels as a prime example. The discussion highlights how Larry Wheels contributed to elevating arm wrestling, creating a crossover appeal with audiences from bodybuilding and powerlifting. His influence helped bring arm wrestling into broader public attention, benefiting from the synergy between these different yet related sports as noticed through the professional collaborations.
14:00 - 15:00: Maintaining Longevity in Fitness This chapter discusses how individuals can maintain longevity in fitness, particularly in the context of bodybuilding and setting records in later life. The conversation highlights overcoming physical challenges like joint pain and sustaining efforts to achieve significant milestones such as obtaining a professional card in bodybuilding during middle age. The focus is on techniques, mindset, and possibly lifestyle choices that contributed to staying competitive and healthy over the years.
15:00 - 16:00: Weight Management and Health Considerations The chapter discusses the speaker's journey in weight management and health. After a decade-long hiatus from competitive activities, the speaker focused on building a career and managing businesses. Despite the busy schedule and occasionally not attending the gym for about a year, the speaker remained physically active. The speaker started training more consistently again between 2004 and 2006, marking a return to competition in 2006 after a significant break.
16:00 - 17:00: Importance of Blood Work and Medical Guidance The chapter discusses the importance of blood work and medical guidance, highlighting personal experience in assessing the reasons why certain things worked in terms of health and competition. The speaker reflects on the period before competing again in 2008, noting significant recovery from past physical damage and the continuous effort to understand what contributed to success. The narrative underscores the role of understanding one's body through medical advice and monitoring.
17:00 - 18:00: Approaching Testosterone Replacement Therapy The chapter discusses an individual named Con, who maintained a rigorous training regimen throughout his career. Con would participate in powerlifting competitions twice annually, around which he shifted his focus to bodybuilding. During the bodybuilding phase, Con prioritized exercises with less weight but increased volume and frequency. A significant point about Con's practice was that he stayed near his competition weight even in the offseason, avoiding the typical offseason weight gain. This approach potentially minimized the metabolic damage usually associated with excess weight, such as metabolic syndrome.
18:00 - 19:00: Dealing with Sleep Apnea in Fitness This chapter focuses on the impact of sleep apnea and other health issues such as elevated blood pressure, blood sugar, and lipids, which are often associated with increased body weight. The speaker discusses their personal approach to managing these health concerns by periodizing body weight—bulking up for powerlifting and cutting weight for bodybuilding. This approach, not remaining heavy all year, has positively influenced their longevity and overall health.
19:00 - 20:00: The Role of Exercise Beyond Just Lifting The chapter discusses the evolution of the author's understanding of exercise, particularly emphasizing the realization that lifting maximum weight for one-repetition max (one rep max) is not always necessary every week. Instead, the author highlights the benefits of bodybuilding, which focuses on more repetitions and higher volume. This approach not only improved conditioning but also contributed to better overall health. Regular blood tests helped the author monitor health status, indicating the positive impact of a well-rounded exercise regime beyond just lifting heavy.
20:00 - 21:00: Balancing Cardio and Weightlifting The chapter discusses the importance of balancing cardio and weightlifting for overall health and longevity. It emphasizes not maintaining a consistently heavy weight as it can lead to health issues such as fatty liver and high blood pressure. The speaker advises clients to periodically adjust their weight to alleviate joint strain and extend their lifting careers. The example of Lalffor is given, who returned to powerlifting with a focus on health. Similarly, Mitchell Hooper's desire to increase size without compromising health led to the implementation of a tailored program.
21:00 - 22:00: Global Perspectives on Lifestyle and Health The chapter 'Global Perspectives on Lifestyle and Health' explores the influence of training volume and conditioning from bodybuilding on the ability to manage fatigue and high-intensity work in powerlifting. It suggests that while there might be some benefit from the conditioning gained through bodybuilding, recent literature indicates that cardiovascular conditioning may not significantly impact the restoration of muscles after workouts. The conversation reflects on the multidimensional talent in athletic disciplines and the potential for longevity in a sports career beyond specific sports like strongman competitions.
22:00 - 23:00: The Struggle and Balance of Weight Management The chapter titled 'The Struggle and Balance of Weight Management' seems to focus on the aspects of workout recovery and weight management. The discussion highlights the importance of self-reliance in managing recovery after workouts, emphasizing how individual efforts are more effective than passive therapies. Though exact details are limited, the transcript snippet suggests a personal narrative about understanding the balance required in weight management and self-care. The speaker reflects on past advice given via video content regarding recovery techniques, suggesting a preference for active over passive recovery measures.
23:00 - 24:00: Nutritional Strategies for Performance and Health In the chapter titled 'Nutritional Strategies for Performance and Health,' the discussion focuses on various recovery techniques for workouts, including electric stimulation (stem), icing, and stretching, among others. The speaker emphasizes the importance of staying active to decrease delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) and enhance recovery. A personal anecdote highlights how utilizing a recumbent bike in a bedroom greatly improved the personal recovery process compared to passive rest.
24:00 - 25:00: Personal Experiences in Bodybuilding The chapter discusses the importance of active recovery in bodybuilding rather than passive methods. It emphasizes that self-initiated exercises, such as biking after meals, can accelerate recovery after workouts and prevent injuries or pain. The text highlights a shift in the fitness industry towards prioritizing personal engagement in rehabilitation and recovery practices.
25:00 - 26:00: Dieting Over the Years The chapter discusses the concept of load management and fatigue in the context of dieting and exercise. It emphasizes the importance of preventive measures, suggesting that preventing damage is more beneficial than trying to repair it afterwards. The chapter describes how understanding has evolved in recognizing that causing damage isn't necessary to achieve results. As a result, strategies like reducing training volume and taking fewer sets to failure are recommended as preventative approaches to prevent potential harm.
26:00 - 27:00: Life and Lifestyle in American Samoa The chapter 'Life and Lifestyle in American Samoa' discusses the importance of mindful training and avoiding overexertion. It highlights the concept of building oneself up rather than just repairing damage, emphasizing the balance between hard work and adequate recovery for genuine improvement. It questions whether hard work alone leads to actual progress or merely fixes what was broken during the process.
27:00 - 28:00: Embracing Island Life and Community The chapter "Embracing Island Life and Community" dives into the concept of improving athletic performance through measurable metrics. It critiques the idea of functional fitness, which often lacks quantifiable progress. Emphasizing the importance of tracking improvements, the chapter discusses how metrics can ensure athletes are indeed moving forward in their training efforts, highlighting the need for progression in speed, jumping ability, and strength related to sports.
28:00 - 29:00: Local Traditions and Living in American Samoa This chapter discusses the importance of load management in sports like fighting or football, emphasizing its role in preventing overreaching. It highlights that while physical performance metrics can be hard to measure due to various influencing factors, the focus should remain on careful planning and patience to ensure optimal performance.
29:00 - 30:00: Changes in Diet and Lifestyle Over Time The chapter 'Changes in Diet and Lifestyle Over Time' seems to explore the differences in approaches to training and lifestyle, particularly highlighting the cultural contrasts between Americans and others in terms of planning and preparation. It mentions the observation by a seminar speaker, possibly a foreign expert, who notes that Americans often have short-term plans, typically around three months, for sporting events, whereas others may have longer-term plans spanning four or five years. The mention of Mika Kogv, who is likely an athlete known for his impressive deadlifting capabilities, demonstrates the type of dedication and planning that goes into achieving significant athletic feats.
30:00 - 31:00: Conclusion and Closing Thoughts The chapter titled 'Conclusion and Closing Thoughts' highlights a strongman's performance at a major event. The focus is on a competitor who is noted for his exceptional strength, demonstrated by deadlifting 765 pounds effortlessly at the Arnold and performing in the animal cage - a place where athletes attempt their most impressive lifts. This occurred in Columbus, Ohio, as he prepared for a national level competition. Notably, this athlete only pushes himself to 90% of his maximum capacity twice a year, showcasing both strategy and discipline in his approach to competitive lifting.

Stan Efferding Exposes Functional Fitness, Fake Gurus, and Bad Science Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 things that are done to you or for you are never as effective as things you do for yourself. Which is kind of what I hate about the functional fitness type of of work is that it's not measurable or progressible. I said to John Jones when I was helping him in his camp, I said, "We're not digging ditches. We're building mountains." Big fat guy does a lift. And I think a lot of people are just all thinking the same thing like, "Oh, well of course he can lift that. He weighs about that much." Heard Klein lifted 90% of his one rep max twice a year and then only went for a max twice a year. How does one know I'm holding
00:30 - 01:00 too much weight? Cuz you mentioned like you're 220, but you might even be trying to get down to 210. I wouldn't take anything out of my diet and replace it with a seed oil. This is what the guru diet does. The guru diet takes the egg yolk out and puts peanut butter in. That's going backwards. How much did you weigh here, Stan? 274. Jesus. I was Yeah, I was in decent condition for that weight. Still singledigit body fat. Yeah. Jesus. Still had a still had some abs on me. I don't look anything like
01:00 - 01:30 you. Whoa. Pause the video. That double chin, triple chin. Oh my god. Got to zoom in on the chin. That is amazing. The chins. It's a completely different person. Traps on traps over there, too. That was awesome. Truth be told, I rarely had to to drop weight. It was hard for me to get up to 275. I had to force feed myself. And so I probably ate
01:30 - 02:00 breakfast that morning, too. I didn't have to do I did a couple of small water cuts when I had gotten into the mid-280s. But Oh, this was fun. This was the Johnny Jackson Oh, yeah. thing. That was hilarious. Well before your time. Uh I would say you were ahead of the times. Shooting videos like this was super unique at the time. have these little call out videos and this is one of the best. You you know I think uh something that's unique about you and
02:00 - 02:30 and I don't think we've talked about it that much before on the podcast. We have talked a bunch about you breaking records and all that kind of stuff but you know your records were you broke alltime world records at around 40 maybe 42 years old or so. Yeah. 44 I think is when I set the 2303. Wow. It's 44 years old. And uh your powerlifting, I know you you had some basis in powerlifting. I know that you lifted for strength when you were younger and stuff, but your second powerlifting career, you didn't
02:30 - 03:00 really have a sururgence in powerlifting until you were 40. Correct. And then you end up breaking the all-time world record around 44 years of age, which is amazing. And this is in the infancy of YouTube. You were absolutely a pioneer in this. And what's interesting is when I look at some of our videos from 124 years ago as opposed to opposed to some of the podcasts that we've done just in the last few years 124 year ago the videos were 500,000 600,000 800,000 views and you look at the more recent ones it's 40 50 there's just so much
03:00 - 03:30 content now you kind of think about when we talk about programs that we used to grow up on well I used to at my age um things like uh the show Dallas uh or and You're 56. I'm 57 now. Walker, Texas Ranger. Uh things, shows that were on when we only had two or three channels. When I was a kid growing up, you had two channels and if you if you moved the uh the bunny ears around a little bit and held on to them, you could get a third channel. No remote control. No remote
03:30 - 04:00 control. Back and forth the TV. But those shows, MASH, uh shows that that like a 100red million Americans would watch, like half the population would watch. So there was, you know, people had that same common uh topic to to discuss. Now you've got hundreds of channels and even the most popular shows don't get 10% the viewership of what these older shows got. And I guess my point is is that as a pioneer in the industry as you were when you started YouTube, there was u less of this going
04:00 - 04:30 on. And so we enjoyed uh I've enjoyed uh much to the uh you know the your efforts uh an extraordinary amount of publicity from doing things that are much more common today. Uh and there's people who have certainly outperformed uh I was just looking who was the gentleman Colton who who just had that 2625 total or what have you. 26 45 total, I think. I mean, the kid's completely in another world. And I and I
04:30 - 05:00 follow him and I looked on his Instagram site and I think he's got 25 40,000 followers. Yeah. I'm like, this kid's the best powerlifter of all time potentially, right? He's certainly the world record holder of all time. Uh, and you just it's hard. Yeah. Here it is. When somebody or is this a different one? When somebody Yeah, this is this is like he did, you know, he did,3 absolutely perfect. Look at the depth. Boom. Oh, he just hammered it. Hammered it. Yeah. And his bench too was the same way. This was a perfect bench. He didn't have any It looks pretty easy.
05:00 - 05:30 He could have gotten another 20 lbs. I think here he did,36 squat and dead pause solid lift and a seven or 573. The deadlift is a beautiful lock out and hold. You know, he didn't just let go of it right away. But does this count? Sumo. Look, he holds that. Sets it down. Bar looks rather bendy. We always say this sumo when you watch lifts on video, they always look really fast. Of course, when you feel them, they're slow and heavy, but you know, he had more in the tank on all of those. But here, you got
05:30 - 06:00 a 24 year old kid who's all-time record holder uh who just hasn't experienced the same level of of I don't know what you'd say, popularity or what yet. Uh which he certainly deserves it and will. Um Larry Wheels was able to capitalize. Yeah. And he's got a huge following. Um, but I guess it's also because we had the benefit of uh, you know, the the bodybuilding, powerlifting, world's strongest bodybuilder, you know, whatever that is. Uh, and Larry was also multiple things. He had that the we
06:00 - 06:30 talked earlier about the fact that he had the arm wrestling thing which was hugely popular. U, I think he got a lot of young people into arm wrestling, too, because I see a lot of younger people and it's like they probably saw from Larry first. Yeah. and he had a a bodybuilder's physique and a powerlifters world record holding powerlifters, you know, uh accomplishments and then he had did the strongman stuff. So, he's been really interesting to watch. He's um he's got a lot of different talent. So, big fat guy does a lift and I think a lot of people are just all thinking the same thing
06:30 - 07:00 like, "Oh, well, of course he can lift that. He weighs about that much." Eric Sto used to he used to just hate that when he would get in and do a 700 lb bench press and people would like, "Oh, single body weight bench press." you know, because he had a belly. It just doing things that are the the freakiest thing ever. He was not fat. He was just huge. He was huge. Yeah. But he had a little belly and uh he you know, he always he hated some of his videos being posted when when that was those were the comments that people would give. It's crazy. That was definitely the most unique uh world record holder I've ever
07:00 - 07:30 met. He was way different than everybody else. He really was. Yeah. There's some people that are just born uh freaks. Larry certainly won and this is a great example here. I mean that's Devon Lorett and one of the greatest arm wrestlers of all time and even Devon and arm wrestling in general was taken to a whole another level when it was exposed to a whole another audience through Larry Wheels as you know our uh you know bodybuilding powerlifting marriage uh that that we were able to benefit from through all the years that I worked with
07:30 - 08:00 you. And you also got your pro card in bodybuilding in your 40s. So, I just think it'd be cool if you can kind of like how did you break world records in your 40s? How how did you get your pro card in your 40s? Cuz I think there's a lot of people that as they age, even some people are just in their like low30s that have been lifting for a long time. They're like, "Man, my elbows are fried. My knees are fried." How were you able to keep your body together? And how were you able to, you know, follow through on some of those things? My elbows and knees were fried in the mid 90s. I stopped competing in 1997 and my
08:00 - 08:30 body was a wreck. Um, and I took 10 years off of competing. I spent that time trying to develop some businesses and build a career. And you're still active though, right? I physically I still trained. There was a couple times there where I didn't I would didn't go to a gym for about a year where things were so busy and I was burning the candle on both ends and Okay. my businesses were were, you know, kind of all my focus. But I still trained. Um, and then in 2006 I I started training 200, four, five, and six. Started training a little more and then competed again 2006. I had all that time off and
08:30 - 09:00 so uh you know my body was still in was in decent shape. I'd recovered from a lot of the damage that I'd done to myself and um and then I didn't compete again till 2008. Two years went by in terms of competition. I've said this before and and I'll always look back on this uh mostly in kind of assessing why um in retrospect, you know, I'm I'm always trying to look back to see what reasons why things worked for me. And some of it has to do with the same way that Eddie
09:00 - 09:30 Con trained throughout his career. Um, you know, he would compete in powerlifting twice a year and then he would, uh, bodybuild those times and so he would do less weight, uh, more volume and frequency. Um, and he also stayed pretty close to competition weight. Eddie never got really really heavy in the offseason. So most of the damage that you would do say with metabolic syndrome you know to your body um from is from the extra weight just being
09:30 - 10:00 heavy the blood pressure elevations the blood sugar elevations the uh the nafal um you know all those things that uh uh the lipids the the dysipidemia and elevated LDL all that occurs with body weight uh the sleep apnea all those things. So, um, but I was, uh, periodizing that, of course, I would bulk up to powerlift and I would diet down to bodybuild. And I think that had had a made a huge impact on my longevity is that I wouldn't stay heavy year round. Um, and so and and the training
10:00 - 10:30 wasn't as heavy by then. I had learned uh what I hadn't learned back in the 90s is that I didn't have to do singles. I didn't have to work up to a max a one rep max every single week. Yeah. Like I used to do. And so bodybuilding was more more repetitions, more volume. So I and I and the bodybuilding volume that I would do back then, I think also helped with my conditioning. And so I I think I stayed pretty reasonably healthy. I would get the blood tests and I was able to monitor that. I think that was the biggest reason I was able to maintain
10:30 - 11:00 longevity is I didn't just stay heavy all the time and just keep pounding heavy weights. And that's what I advise my clients now. periodized their weight off the war. We brought them down from 440 pounds to into the 390s just to resolve some of the fatty liver, high blood pressure and those things and just the joint strain of of being that heavy and lifting those those loads and that uh I think that lengthens their career. Lalffor was back to powerlifting again and that's one of the first things Mitchell Hooper said. It's like I want to get bigger but I don't want to get unhealthy or fatter. And so, you know, we implemented a program that would
11:00 - 11:30 allow him to do that so he can have some longevity because he's already thinking beyond strongman. He's got, you know, he can do just about anything with his level of talent. Do you think that like being able to all the volume you learned how to handle while doing bodybuilding? Do you think that kind of helped you when you went into powerlifting in terms of being able to handle the fatigue of highintensity work or not really? Yeah, maybe the conditioning, but you know, then some literature came out recently that suggests your cardiovascular conditioning probably doesn't have a lot to do with uh with Dom's restoration and
11:30 - 12:00 and recovering from workouts. I was, you know, kind of hard to read that stuff when you've leaned into uh having a a bigger gas tank maybe helping with recovery. Um, a lot of the stuff and I've shot a video the best way to to recover from workouts many years ago and I talked about I said things that are done to you or for you are never as effective as things you do for yourself. And I talked about the fact that passive therapies, things like chiropractor, you
12:00 - 12:30 know, um, electric stem, icing, uh, gouacha, you know, you name it. There's a whole list of different things that people stretching that people attempt to uh, use to to decrease doms and to help recover from workouts. And I said that that uh, just movement in general, just staying active. the time I had talked about the fact that in Sacramento I'd put a little recumbent bike in my bedroom because I used to just lay in bed after our workouts for three days and just be sore. And then when I started implementing the three bikes a
12:30 - 13:00 day, three 10-minute bikes a day after each meal, I would recover much quicker from the workouts. And so that was active versus passive as an example of that. Things that are done to you or for you, not as effective as things you do for yourself, the active workouts. And now there's been a big shift in the industry. most of the folks that are um I think the the most knowledgeable in terms of of um pain prevention or pain or injury prevention and rehabilitation suggest the vast majority of focus which is why we spent so much time this morning
13:00 - 13:30 talking about uh load management and fatigue is should be uh you know ounce of prevention's worth a pound of cure should be before the damage is done and we understand now that doing the damage isn't the driver of the results so let's try and mitigate mitigate some of the damage. So now we're looking at load management and that's why my uh volume has reduced. Uh that's why uh I've taken fewer sets to failure. Uh there's a host of things that you can do on the front end to not I said to John Jones when I
13:30 - 14:00 was helping him in his camp, I said, "We're not digging ditches. We're building mountains." And so you be really careful how how deep of a hole you dig in your training because about all you're doing is maybe repairing what you broke down, but you're not super compensating and progressing over time. And you may work very hard and get very sore and then do it again, but did you get better? You know, has the adaptation occurred? Has the stimulus been sufficient for an adaptation? And did you not work so hard that that all you're doing is fixing what you broke
14:00 - 14:30 and then not actually realizing that supercompensation to be able to progress? you should be getting faster, jump higher, um lift more, you know, all those things as it relates to sports. And that's why we we're so fixated now on actually measuring. This is kind of what I hate about the functional fitness type of of work is that it's not measurable or progressible. And I want to make sure that that if an athlete is intending um you know to get better at their sport that there are certain metrics we can measure. could be a a
14:30 - 15:00 high jump, could be a broad jump, it could be any of the lifts in the gym under the same conditions with the same load. And then that because it's so hard to measure performance in a in a dynamic sport like fighting or football because there's so many other variables that are associated with that. So without getting too far off onto another topic, really load management is where everybody should be putting most of their planning to make sure that they're not overreaching. Be patient. M Klab talked
15:00 - 15:30 about that. I was had the good fortune to train with him and attend a seminar um it was just here in Oakland I believe with uh Jesse years and years ago and he said you know you Americans it's always you Americans uh you guys are you're impatient you know you you have a three-month plan the next meet right they have four and fiveyear plans and I can remember when Mika Kogv uh lifted at the animal cage at the Arnold and we know from looking at videos of Mika he can deadlift 400 kilos, 881 lbs for a
15:30 - 16:00 triple. He's that freaking strong. He gets to the Arnold, he gets to the animal cage where, of course, everybody tries to do, you know, their biggest lift ever in their life. He deadlifted 765 quite easily and thank the audience because that was where he was at in his prep for his next competition. He was trying to show off to an audience in in Columbus, Ohio. He was trying to prepare for a national qualifier or nationals. And so he only lifted 900 or 90% of his one rep max twice a year and those were
16:00 - 16:30 the qualifiers for nationals and worlds and then only went for a max twice a year and that was at nationals and worlds. One of the strongest athletes of all time by the way. Indeed. People should know who this guy is. Uh amazing weightlifter, amazing uh strongman athlete and an amazing powerlifter. And I think for a while he had uh the all-time record uh in a deadlift for um for a Russian athlete I think at at some point. So he's he's just completely
16:30 - 17:00 ridiculous. Yeah. You talk about a guy like Mika and then his knowledge and all the you think about Eddie Conn, you know, a true student of the sport, somebody who spent the time and energy trying to master the sport. Can can he with that deadlift though, real quick, what I find super interesting was his foot positioning on it. how like how beautifully stacked he was. He also he's bow-legged as hell when you watch him walk. He's it looks like he's been riding a horse all his life and so he does have a you're right knees kind of
17:00 - 17:30 push out but that's also his uh and he lifts it like he's going to Olympic lift it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly his setup. Now a lot of people watch that video and they think well you know Mikail goes from a low position. That's his setup. But if you look at the point at which those plates leave the mat he's at 70% angle. Mhm. And his ass is high. And that's every deadlift starts when the plates leave the ground. You don't have an exaggerated knee angle. He's not at 90. He's at He's at You look There's So as
17:30 - 18:00 soon as the plates leave the ground, look at his hip angle. Yeah. And his knee angle. This guy's really one of a kind cuz like at the seminar that he did with Jesse, I don't know if you remember him playing the guitar afterwards. Yeah. He's playing the guitar and he's singing, him and his uh coach, they're singing and like it was just amazing. I was like, "This guy's got so much charisma. It's unbelievable." Yes. And they're funny. Yeah. He's hilarious. They're uh uh superstitious as well. I stepped over the deadlift bar. Oh, yeah. They don't like that. He was like, "Oh, oh, like this big deal." You know,
18:00 - 18:30 that's that's not good. You don't step over the deadlift bar. You walk around it. Yeah. And then he said, "Stan," he said, "I I watch you lift many time." He goes, "And every time I watch you lift, I want to fix your [ __ ] form." And I said me I said Mel I said I'm a I'm a strong bodybuilder. I said I I don't do powerlifting. It's not my sport. See if you can actually uh hear some of this. Ryan, this is amazing. He's so happy.
18:30 - 19:00 Yeah. Much better powerlifter than a singer. Of course. Sounds like a He's having so much fun, though. That's what I loved about it. I was like, "This guy's incredible." Sounds like a wounded moose. [Music] Um, beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. So, like, you know, when we were powerlifting, I remember, you know, you started you started doing a lot of blood work. I don't know if you did a lot of blood work before that time. Periodically. Yeah. Before that time, but, uh, around the time I was
19:00 - 19:30 powerlifting from 2008 through all the years that we trained together, um, I had gotten kind of addicted to seeing the results and trying to influence uh, the outcomes. And so I would implement some sort of protocol and then test again to see if it it was working. Uh but almost on a monthly basis, sometimes 60 days out, 30 days out, the day after, and then 30 days after a meet really just to see what was happening with both bodybuilding and powerlifting because different things would happen if you're powerlifting, you're going to see different things on your blood test than if you're bodybuilding. As it relates to
19:30 - 20:00 strength, um did you notice anything with like free testosterone or testosterone or testosterone to like a stridal ratio? One thing I noticed was estrogen. It seems that the stronger I was was when my estrogen was higher and my estrogen was lower. And in the bodybuilding world, we used to suppress estrogen with estrogen. My locker face is so fat. Yeah. Yeah. And the uh the estrogen blockers we discovered over the years would were would uh would make you weaker. And so that was one thing. The other the other rest of it was all
20:00 - 20:30 health issues. Liver markers, kidney markers, creatin, ALT, lipids, blood pressure, blood sugar, all of those things. You want you want to see just how terrible you were doing. Um, most of that was impacted by fat gain, but there was also the orals would affect the liver uh to a more significant degree. And at one time I'd introduced um now I forget the name of the of the oral. It was the one that was legal. It was over the it was sold at GNC for the longest time. Oh, like Anderstein or something? Yeah. What was it? Um the audience will
20:30 - 21:00 remember. It's been so long since I've been involved in all that stuff. Anderstein Dion. There's uh I don't know. I don't know what's like le I don't know legal stuff. Yeah. Uh, it was well then they they found out it was actually just a designer steroid. It was causing a lot of liver issues, but I had taken some before the world's strongest pro bodybuilder. It's the first time I had used it and um the test that I got done, I felt super tired all the time. And of course, that's a pretty good indicator. And when your appetite goes away and you're exhausted, it's a pretty good indicator that something toxic's going on with your liver. And my liver
21:00 - 21:30 enzymes after that were like six times normal. It was outrageous. Um, I think hepatitis is 10 times normal. So, that's where you're headed. It's pretty common under testosterone therapy to get up to 1.5 to two times normal. And that might not be a huge issue. Um you obviously I don't want to speak out of turn here, but it seems to be somewhat normal that at about 1.5 and don't necessarily see liver problems, but when you get up to four, five, six times normal with your liver enzymes, it's probably a good idea to uh do something different. And when
21:30 - 22:00 you would see these results, like I'd imagine you're maybe still prepping for a contest or something like that. And do you kind of ignore it and say, "Well, I only got four more weeks left." And that's the thing. I' I've said that, you know, health and fitness, if you want to be healthy, don't compete. Right. Right. And and health and fitness aren't the same thing. And and the fitness level required to compete is usually comes either, you know, now we're talking about with your blood work, but you know, what about people who have suffered dynamic injuries? So I talked about 14y olds in the uh girls in the
22:00 - 22:30 Olympics, you know, blowing out collateral lateral or blowing out to getting carpal tunnel syndrome or or you know Achilles tendons blown out and 10 year olds uh competing in in bad mitten in China blowing out collateral ligaments. So and football players all those dynamic injuries and so there's a point at which when you're competing that it's it's just not healthy. And so yeah, you make some exceptions and and you say this is for a short period of time. Bikini girls competing on stage in
22:30 - 23:00 a bikini show the last 30 days suffering from amenorhea, you know, the female triad, from sessation of the menstrual period and from anemia potentially and and hypothyroidism and uh very common and they might take supplements to try and avoid some of that uh prescriptions as well. So yeah, there are things sacrifices you make and potentially interventions that you employ to to combat some of that um you know while you're competing. But then it also is a good measure. It's why I like love blood testing because it tells you where
23:00 - 23:30 you're at. And so right after the the competition at least you've got some measure of of you know things you need to fix. And an interesting thing honestly about what you're saying even on the natural side of natural bodybuilding the men when you get that lean your test is in the tank. Like you have you have nothing. sex, you know what I mean? So, just from lack of sleep and overtraining, very common. The intensity of the training drives testosterone down. Doesn't seem to impact performance though at the Olympics. Uh like we see testosterone within the normal range. Uh that range
23:30 - 24:00 doesn't seem to their body fat is still at a at a at a place where they can perform, but with bodybuilding, your body fat is getting you're so lean that it's just like it's not you wouldn't be doing any type of actual sport being that lean, you know? Yeah. So, not good. Did you feel like death when you were competing when you got on stage or 100% both powerlifting and bodybuilding? Yeah, powerlifting too. Yeah, that was the worst part about it was just the way you feel that last few weeks to a month. Uh bodybuilding like you say, you just get super super weak, extremely hungry.
24:00 - 24:30 Mh. Uh and then with powerlifting of course you're very tired particularly on with performance dancing drugs and particularly orals and their impact on liver. You just are exhausted constantly. What's interesting is is that you go into the gym and you start touching weight and it's like a light switch flicks on and it's just euphoric. Everything feels light and you're just crushing weights and but outside of that you feel like oh for one hour you just feel like amazing and then you go sit down and eat lunch somewhere and 20 30 minutes later you just like this wave
24:30 - 25:00 hits you and you're just really exhausted. Yeah. Did you feel like that too? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely you you you um Yeah. Yeah, let's get you about 60 lbs over eight and a bunch of D ball and we'll see. And trust me, trust me, you'll feel like [ __ ] If you think about it, you know, if someone was to gain, let's let's just say somebody gained uh eight or 10 pounds even in the course of like 3 months. Yeah. Just going to feel worse. Oh, yeah. Like just cuz it's fast, right? So, if you and that's what would happen a lot of times.
25:00 - 25:30 A lot of times after competition, you would like downsize. You would lose a little bit of weight. You lose some water. You wouldn't utilize the oral steroids because they're damaging to your liver. So, you would discontinue those and you would probably uh take less stuff because there's no reason to be blasting that much stuff when a competition isn't coming around. So, when a competition starts to come around, you take a little bit more and then you add in the orals and that amount of weight and stuff like that, just the the blood pressure and just all the different things that you feel, okay, just kind of make you kind of feel lethargic and make you feel like [ __ ]
25:30 - 26:00 kind of. It's important to mention too when we talked about the doses that I would utilize for competition that would just be for that window uh that you would raise the doses up that high for um whatever it was usually about 8 to 10. I generally didn't train for a powerlifting meet longer than 12 weeks. So by then I would I would be overreaching and get weaker is what I found. And so usually around 8 to 10 weeks as you prep for the show I'm at my highest dose and then immediately after the show uh you know you can go down to
26:00 - 26:30 something. So, that's another reason why you're able to maintain your health if you don't try and maintain those doses year round. I will never go to a doctor ever again about my general health. All they want to do is put you on pills. Really well said there by Dana White. Couldn't agree with them more. A lot of us are just trying to get jacked and tan. A lot of us just want to look good, feel good, and a lot of the symptoms that we might acquire as we get older. Some of the things that we might have, uh, high cholesterol or these various things, it's amazing to have somebody looking at your blood work as you're
26:30 - 27:00 going through the process, as you're trying to become a better athlete, somebody that knows what they're doing. They can look at your cholesterol. They can look at the various markers that you have and they can kind of see where you're at, and they can help uh guide you through that. And there's a few aspects too where it's like, yes, I mean, no, no shade to doctors, but a lot of times they do want to just stick you on medication. A lot of times there is supplementation that can help with this. Uh, Merrick Health, these patient care coordinators are going to also look at the way you're living your lifestyle because there's a lot of things you
27:00 - 27:30 might be doing that if you just adjust that, boom, you could be at the right levels, including working with your testosterone. And there's so many people that I know that are looking for, they're like, "Hey, should I do that?" They're very curious. um and they think that testosterone is going to all of a sudden kind of turn them into the Hulk, but that's not really what happens. It can be something that can be really great for your health because uh you can just basically live your life a little stronger just like you were maybe in your 20s and 30s. Mhm. And this is the last thing to keep in mind, guys. When
27:30 - 28:00 you get your blood work done at a hospital, they are just looking at like these minimum levels. At Merrick Health, they try to bring you up to ideal levels for everything you're working with. Whereas if you go into a hospital and you have uh 300 nanogs per deciliter of test, you're good, bro. Even though you're probably feeling like [ __ ] At Merrick Health, they're going to try to figure out what things you can do in terms of your lifestyle. And if you're a candidate, potentially TRT. So these are things to pay attention to to get you to your best self. And what I love about it
28:00 - 28:30 is a little bit of the back and forth that you get with the patient care coordinator. They're dissecting your blood work. It's not like uh you just get this email back and it's just like, "Hey, try these five things." Somebody's actually on the phone with you going over every step and what you should do. Sometimes it's supplementation, sometimes it's TRT, and sometimes it's simply just some lifestyle habit changes. All right, guys. If you want to get your blood work checked and also get professional help from people who are going to be able to get you towards your best levels, head to mehealth.com and use code power project for 10% off any
28:30 - 29:00 panel of your choice. within within the last five years or so, you've you've downsized considerably. You're around 220 pounds now. Yeah, 57 now. I'd always promised myself I' I'd less sooner, but uh you know, you just get if you identify yourself as as a certain type of size or weight and uh I represent myself in the industry as a world's strongest bodybuilder, former powerlifter guy. Uh and then people look at you and they're like, "You were
29:00 - 29:30 strong?" you know, so I don't think anyone's looking at you right now asking that question. Dude, I I've always thought that especially strong men and powerlifterss hold on to too much weight for too long and potentially, you know, put themselves at risk. And we've seen, without mentioning names, lots of people that we know over the years end up in the hospital with kidney problems or with, you know, a cardiovascular event, uh, in their 50s or certainly by their 60s. And I didn't want to be that guy. So, we've worked hard, uh, you know, you and I both over the last many years, um, to get healthier. And now it seems like
29:30 - 30:00 the last thing is really the body weight that um to a point, you know, big dogs die sooner than small dogs. To a point, even if it's lean weight, because we've been lean since we were 240 and thereabouts, but now we've chosen to take another 20 30 pounds off. Um and it helps to for stand just to correct you. You've been lean the entire time whether you're 270, 290, or otherwise. Yeah. I mean, just too much. Well, now
30:00 - 30:30 mind you, I never had genetically people are different in where they store fat and some people store it subcutaneously in in their like women in particular in their hips and butt and that isn't necessarily uh uh very unhealthy fat. Um, now those who store fat viscerally, you know, ectopic fat around the the organs, uh, some of those folks, uh, like me, you could see a six-pack when I was 280, but I had, uh, liver fat. I had
30:30 - 31:00 NAFD at that weight. Not a ton, but I you you know, it it wasn't ideal. Uh, that's something you got tested for. Yeah, you would you would see it sometimes you see it in your ASAT elevations, but uh I would also uh get uh scans to see uh you know MRI or something heart scan to you know in a in a torso scan to see what was going on. Um uh coronary coronary angography dexa can help a little bit. Um there's some things you can you can do. I did corore
31:00 - 31:30 coronary angography and a scan of the of my torso. So, I was able to see uh was kind of a hypochondric there for a while and I got to about every test and if I'm going to recommend tests, I'd like to know what they say and what their efficacy is and whether or not they u are predictive of or can lead to, you know, uh good um recommendations for resolution or something. So, uh I've tried them all. I've had the CAC and the uh I've had a host of different scans over the years trying to see what kind
31:30 - 32:00 of damage I'd done to myself, if not permanent or otherwise. So, you know, I've kind of known all along. And on that same note, there's some populations like in India, uh, you'll see those folks that have like toe feet, thin on the outside, fat on the inside. They'll have these teeny little arms and teeny little legs will have this little pot belly. And I had a a brother-in-law who passed away not too long ago in his 50s because he had napp and and pancreatic uh disease. And and it and all he had was this little belly, but he was really light. he was by the BMI standard, he
32:00 - 32:30 would have been, you know, he wouldn't have been considered uh obese or overweight. Uh so it's it's different for different people where you store the fat. Women who go through menopause, it it differentially affects where they store their fat and they start to see it accumulate around the belly. Uh and that it's hormonally driven. And so those are things to watch out for just because u you know somebody has a six-pack. But I think Eddie Hall has suffered from the same problem. I think back when he was 400 lb and drinking Kool-Aid every day. He has a six-pack on the outside, but
32:30 - 33:00 underneath I think he was suffering from some uh some liver fat obviously and so he lost a ton of weight uh you know to get healthier and those are things to watch out for. You can't always tell by looking at someone and and you know nap can be an insidious disease. So is there any way to target some of the visceral fat with particular diets or anything or exercise? Yeah, it doesn't seem it seems that weight loss is the is the primary driver, the primary solution. Um, and just a like a 7% weight loss can result
33:00 - 33:30 in I think a 95% resolution of reversal of naff. Uh, as tested by biopsy, which is the most accurate test. Uh, so a 300lb person losing 20 pounds, they could go a long ways. You don't have to be skinny or thin or have, you know, a six-pack to get rid of apple, but up to a 15% weight loss uh seems to demonstrate a reversal of type 2 diabetes for those people whose pancreatic pancreas doesn't already have, you know, beta cell destruction, but they can actually get restoration of their beta cells. And we hate to say to
33:30 - 34:00 use the word cure because it's one of those diseases that so long as you manage your weight, it's fine. But if you were to gain weight back, it would relapse. Yeah. So about a 15% weight loss can in in most cases can result in a a reversal of type two diabetes and daff. You know this kind of makes me curious and this is a question for both of you guys because like peeds can make you put on an amount of weight and muscle that like you wouldn't be able to put on otherwise right but then how does one know like I'm holding too much
34:00 - 34:30 weight? How how like cuz when somebody gets to a point where maybe they should, but how do they know? Cuz you mentioned like you're 220, but you might even be trying to get down to 210. So in in your mind, why are you making that decision? Because you're already 220 and you're doing you're healthier, right? Why why why would you get lighter? As much as I hate to admit it, it's cuz I picked up this nasty little addiction about a year ago called pickle ball. Okay. Okay. And I have not moved laterally since college. Okay. And for six or nine
34:30 - 35:00 months, because I was 235, 237 or so about a year and a half ago. Yeah. Uh it took me a long time to get over the the pain that I was my hips and my knees and my ankles and my feet. Uh and so I just the more weight I took off, the easier it became. And so now I just I'm still trying to to train hard, but uh generally speaking, yeah, this is I had a pickle ball in uh court set up in my in my driveway at my house in Vegas. And that house in Vegas was right on uh
35:00 - 35:30 Sunset Park, which is a has 26 professional courts. And so I would go it was right in my backyard. And so I would just walk over there and and play. And uh so that was a nasty little habit I picked up some time ago. And now I brought my paddle and with me and I you have it with you right now. I I brought it with me. I left American Samo which you fly to Honolulu, Hawaii and then I stopped in Vegas where I went and I played pickle ball. Left out the next morning. I went to Toronto, Canada to do
35:30 - 36:00 a seminar and uh I found a uh place to play pickle ball there. And then I went to uh Iowa to visit my pops and I spent there three days there. Two of the nights I went and played pickle ball. And then I went to Cincinnati, Ohio uh to do a seminar with Mark Bell or with uh Matt Whitmer and uh I played pickle ball there. And then I came uh then I went to Dallas and had a did a seminar or did a an interview with uh Jordan Sai and uh I played pickle ball there. Yeah. And then I flew out to Vegas and played
36:00 - 36:30 pickle ball in Vegas and then I came up here and guess what I did this morning? I woke up early and I went and I played pickle ball over at the pickle ball court right down the street. Nice. So, it's a it's a nasty little add. I use it as my exercise now. And I you know, I think it's a great addiction to have. Great movement. Now, you said the best exercise is the one you'll do. You would not catch me in a gym walking on a treadmill. It's just it's just no way I'd do that consistently. And I've said for years now, I don't prescribe that to my clients. Take the 10-minute walks because they're convenient and you know, they're you can adhere to them. And find
36:30 - 37:00 some activity that you enjoy and do it repeatedly. I don't care what it is. It doesn't matter. I think we in the fitness field try and get, I think, too specific and and force people into things that they just don't enjoy or won't, you know, do consistently. Yeah. When you were looking at your blood work, you were saying you were curious to see like what kind of damage uh have you done? Have have you done any, you know, real damage and have and have you suffered any permanent damage? I haven't been able to figure out. That was an important point that Sema had started into. you know, how do you know? Uh my
37:00 - 37:30 obviously desire to lose more weight now is just because I'm play pickle ball better. Uh I can move faster. Um u but as far as health marker goes, if if uh and a lot of my clients who come to me, the first thing we do is check blood pressure and get a blood test. And the key things that we look for obviously is high blood pressure. That'll kill you now. And we want to get that down right away. Uh and there's some obviously resolving sleep apnea, losing weight, increasing potassium. Uh taking five
37:30 - 38:00 milligrams a day has a huge effect on vaso dilation and blood pressure. Um those are the big rocks there. Apnea, weight loss is probably the the two biggest ones in terms of blood pressure. And if it can't be resolved, then you know now we've got blood pressure medications that uh have very little side effects and actually are cardioprotective. uh telmmaartent and nivivalol actually decreases left ventricular hypertrophy and has some cardioprotective events uh or effects. So uh I'm not at all opposed to
38:00 - 38:30 suggesting those people who can't get their blood pressure within a normal range um don't utilize you know both lifestyle and potentially a medical intervention for that. Um so that that's the big one. Blood pressure first and foremost and then on the blood test we're looking for um you know kidney and liver health would be a big one. ALT, creatinin, bun, uh, high blood pressure is the one of the biggest drivers of of kidney health. And so that's preemptive in and of itself. But, um, some people
38:30 - 39:00 will get a blood test and see some elevated creatin. It's just because they're working out and that'll, um, put myoglobin into the bloodstream that's read to look like, uh, kidney kidney. when you have kidney problems, it'll release u into the bloodstream that the test will pick up the creatin consumption or the muscle tissue breakdown, but it's independent of the kidney's function. So, there may be other testing you have to do. Cyatin C is a more specific test for kidneys. Obviously, liver health uh we look at um
39:00 - 39:30 if they're on TRT, we're looking at increased hemoglobin and hematocrit potentially. Um but we don't want to overdate and potentially give somebody anemia from um you know depleting their iron. So we also want to check iron and you know feritin storage and and platelets to make sure that they don't have thick blood. um uh dysipidemia you know we want to look at high LDL or currently the best uh we have is actually apo that's kind of the the best marker the most accurate for um an
39:30 - 40:00 independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease that we discussed last time in the camp with like Peter it you know trying to keep that apo low and 100% yeah and you know Peter's evolved too I mean Peter used to be keto he used to be intermittent fasting he used to not worry too much about uh apo LDLDL and and now uh you know He's u he sees the the literature that supports the fact that that's something that we should keep under control. And you know, lifestyle, there's very little you can do. We talked about it in our last interview, just reducing saturated fats and increasing um soluble fibers and
40:00 - 40:30 losing some body weight. If that doesn't fix the problem, then you may need medication. And fortunately, you know, 10 years ago, we had, I think, a bigger problem with highdose statins causing myalgia, you know, muscle pain and what have you. Now they use uh dual therapies with lowd dose statins and some a zettoi which is not a statin uh in very low doses have very few side effects but are extremely effective and they're very affordable. There's more expensive medications but again like blood pressure uh if that's something you
40:30 - 41:00 can't get under control it's something that you should pay attention to. Um and they may need some medical intervention. If you've got hypothyroidism you probably need to be on thyroid medication. If you've got hypogonatism, you probably want to use um testosterone replacement therapy because we see that um people with low testosterone hypogonatal have higher disease risk than those people that are uh that have normal testosterone. So the supplementation put you in a better place. Same with menopausal women taking estrogen therapy. They have lower uh
41:00 - 41:30 incidence of of uh particularly breast cancer and other uh problems plus side effects associated with the loss of estrogen. uh the hot flashes etc. So women should be on uh some sort of therapy if they're menopausal or parmenopausal and have low hormones as a result. Uh so all those things come into play. Quick question about um the testosterone replacement therapy. Do you think because I know I mean some people get on it earlier for means for performance um but for someone who's
41:30 - 42:00 like their training is meant to keep them healthier. They're trying to just they're just trying to stay super healthy. when you you mentioned post-menopausal women considering some testosterone, you know, but for men, I know there's not necessarily an age, but are there things that you think is there a time where they should maybe consider it? A time maybe where they should put it off or consider? You can look, you can get a blood test and look at your levels and see if you're low. Mhm. But it seems that people respond differently to different levels. So now you've got
42:00 - 42:30 do you treat the symptoms or you treat the number? And we tend to look more at symptoms now. Although many of those symptoms, and I said this almost 10 years ago in that Iceland seminar, I said that uh if you've got low tea, it doesn't necessarily mean you need to take testosterone right away. You need to look at maybe why. Maybe you're overweight and you're converting to estrogen. Maybe you're not getting adequate sleep. Maybe uh which can reduce testosterone 30 40% in just one night uh with a short night of sleep. Uh maybe you're overtraining. Uh maybe you aren't training hard enough. Uh there's
42:30 - 43:00 a whole host of different things that might attribute that. zinc, uh, you know, it might be a nutrient deficiency potentially. Not suggesting any of those things are are performance enhancers if you would use a supplement. Uh, we don't know of any natural supplements, herbs or whatever that makes a meaningful difference in testosterone increase um, in order to suggest that you should take some supplement. But, um, you know, for the most part, you treat the symptoms. And so if an individual has a lot of the symptoms which would be you know
43:00 - 43:30 potentially loss of energy uh loss of libido um uh lean muscle mass loss increased body fat you know just body composition change um just general malaise or fatigue uh which all of those things can be caused by a lot of things as just mentioned the sleep and etc. Um and then maybe you're a candidate for uh testosterone replacement therapy. One of the challenges is that u a lot of folks will start testosterone replacement therapy and they'll also implement some changes in those other things. They'll
43:30 - 44:00 improve their sleep, they'll improve their diet, they'll start exercising regularly and they'll get all these and they'll have this great first 30 or 60 days and then they'll stop doing paying much attention to the lifestyle stuff, sleep, exercise, and eating. And then u they won't continue to realize the benefits and they'll think that testosterone is not working. And so they'll discontinue therapy. Uh but things like take more or they'll take more. And you also have to be careful. Things like ED uh are are generally uh a
44:00 - 44:30 canary in the coal mine for insulin resistance. So maybe these individuals are starting to have pre-diabetes or diabetes, which the blood tests would show with, you know, glucose and HA1C or more predictively triglycerides or fasted insulin would be the better u uh predictor of of your insulin resistance. So often times they'll take testosterone and that might just kick the can down the road. It might give you some of the uh benefits without actually resolving the insulin resistance. So the insulin
44:30 - 45:00 resistance keeps getting worse and worse and worse and worse until the testosterone that you're taking is no longer helping. Uh and so you're you're better off looking, you know, kind of getting in front of all those things as well. Do you still wear a sleep apnea mask? I do. And you know, I had hoped I I'd thought that part of losing weight, and I keep thinking there's a number on it, um would help me to resolve sleep apnea. And this is I'm glad you brought it up because there's a number of different things here I think are important for our audience. Um I always reference Jordan Fagen, mom. I think he hates me when I do it, but because he's
45:00 - 45:30 200 lb and and has a six-pack, but wears a CPAP because he's got a thick neck because he squats 650, 660, and deadlifts over 700. So, and he's a lot younger than me. I think he's only 40 now. Um so it's not necessarily weight related. That's the that's the primary reason for cause and resolution uh is weight related but just a crowding of the airway or some some people just have genetic predispositions for poor um poor breathing and maybe some clogging in the nasals the area and stuff like that in
45:30 - 46:00 your sinuses. So, I had hoped that maybe that my apnea would improve and I haven't done a subsequent study in a lab to see that, but I've tried a little bit. I'm not wearing it for a night to see how I felt in the morning. But there are better ways to do that. And one of the most affordable ways, some people don't have insurance or a doctor uh and a sleep study is $1,500. Uh there are a couple things you can do. One of them is to get on the internet, look at the stop bang questionnaire, and that takes you
46:00 - 46:30 through some pretty obvious things like are you snoring and waking up tired? Does your significant other see any episodes where you're holding your breath at night, what have you. But there's another one that I think is kind of like the poor man's sleep study, and that's these um uh pulse oximters that you put on your finger, and they give you your pulse, and they give you your oxygenation rate of your blood. It's like 20 bucks on Amazon. Yeah, they have them now that hook up to a iPhone via Bluetooth and give you repeated readings
46:30 - 47:00 throughout the evening. I think that one's on Amazon for like 39 bucks. Like you say, it's dirt cheap. And you just wear that, pair it to your iPhone, go to sleep, and when you wake up in the morning or whenever you wake up, you uh uh you can check and see. It'll tell you uh it gives you a measurements what your average um yeah, all those there. what your average um blood oxygenation was. And if that gets down below 90, 88, certainly 85, uh you're holding your
47:00 - 47:30 breath during the night. And so that would be a good way for you to give you an indicator of the fact that you might need to employ a CPAP. And there again, we have a cost. We have a, you know, if you're not insured or don't have a doctor or a prescription. And I've always put in my vertical diet ebook uh links to whomever could provide either it's Craigslist or I have a supplier that refurbishes machines that ship them out to my clients uh if need be. And um because the alternative is not to get treated. Um and I think it's weird. You
47:30 - 48:00 need a prescription for a sleep apnea machine for some weird reason. Yeah. Well, even to get a mask in some states, uh you you can't go buy a mask. And you find out in Las Vegas, I was able to buy a mask at a medical supply store and then I I guess the medical supply people lobby the government to make that medical prescription only and all of a sudden the mask is three times the price. And you can't order it yourself anymore. So it's it's a frustrating uh the cost associated with navigating the medical system, but I think it's
48:00 - 48:30 important enough. um extremely important like bad sleep is you know I' I've said before that it's lifech changing and I've been in this business a long time we all have and uh we don't say that about a lot of things we tend to have gotten excited and then not so excited about things that as they've come and gone but getting a CPAP for somebody who has a significant enough level of apnea and remember that's not an on-off switch it exists on a spectrum the degree of apnea that you have the amount of time you spend holding your breath um it it's
48:30 - 49:00 life-changing I I I remember in the early 90s my weight started getting up to 220, 230, 240. I started having worse and worse problems with my sleep. And I would I would drive to almost fall asleep driving to work in the morning after a night of sleep. I was exhausted all day. I would sit at my desk and I would stare at the couch that was in my office. And I was just all I wanted to do was go crash, but I wouldn't because I would wake up even more tired because when I was awake and moving around, at least I was getting the oxygen. And then when I'd go to sleep, I would just sit there and hold my breath and I'd wake up just absolutely crushed. And so I
49:00 - 49:30 finally got a CPAP. Now back then they were actually CPAPs. Continuous positive air. It's just like driving down the freeway with no windshield. It's just all night long and you wake up in the morning, you're like and now we've got byps that act when you exhale they stop forcing air in. They're very comfortable to to to utilize and there are adjustments that you can make to the machine to help uh with comfort level for your breathing. And then I just recently and I I need to post a video on this uh for the longest time. Every time Eddie Cohen and I'd get together at a
49:30 - 50:00 seminar or uh at a uh one of the Olympias or an expo, we would always look at each other and point out the the lines from the straps that strap to your face. You always have these indentations in your cheek and your head. And the mask can be kind of uncomfortable because if you start losing air through, you know, seeping around the edges, you just velcro and, you know, you strap that down harder. Yeah. And then it pushes on your your bones of your face and you start getting uh you know waking up with some some soreness just from
50:00 - 50:30 that. So I got this new um I got this new mask. I was just googling m CPAP mask no headgear or no strap and up comes this one called tap pap. And it uses a mouthpiece. You know those bite guards that you boil in water? Yeah. and you bite on them. Well, this has just an upper and so you boil it in water and you snap it to your upper teeth and attached to that is a
50:30 - 51:00 nostril mask that has a hose that you plug into your machine. Is it any of these? There's nothing on your on your face. Tap pap. And that's that one in the middle right there. That that one right there. And that's it. There's no uh straps that go around your head. You think the uh mouthpiece The mouth piece snaps into your upper teeth. Yeah. So it it creates like a suction, right? It it
51:00 - 51:30 just holds it there because it snaps in, right? And then it has a little uh adjustment that allows you to There's a little screw on the side that he's working right now. Yeah. And it allows you to There it is. You And it it sits perfectly. It's amazing. Sits perfectly. you don't have any uh now you might have to use a little tape if your if your mouth opens up but um other than that no more of those masks or those straps around the head I've been using that's the most comfortable one you've had so far most I've used a lot of them I've had CPAP since the early 90s and I've
51:30 - 52:00 used I've used a lot of different masks over the years trying to resolve different problems especially with facial hair because you know that affects the masks uh ability have you tried to sleep with uh just uh just mouth tape I tried that. I tried just mouth tape. I even went in and tried to get one of those dental fixtures to bring the jaw forward, but I started having problems with my bite. And I think that's one of the big problems. It changes your bite so your teeth don't match up anymore. Uh, so I've tried a lot of things. I had a surgery on my
52:00 - 52:30 throat and had my uvula lasered off. It was the most uncomfortable thing. Little punching bag thing. Yes. I had they they go in there with a laser and laser it off because you have to keep it at least like a little thing. No, I mean it's all burned up. Uh, I went in and had stances. This is when I'm 280, 290 and, you know, I'm sitting here trying to find this little patchwork uh to fix a problem that was obviously caused by myself. Do you think if you had that when you were 280, 290, that would have solved the problem? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, that solves the problem at any rate. You
52:30 - 53:00 know, if you have apnea. Now, I should say if you don't have apnea, don't wear a CPAP. It's not going to give you improved performance. That's not what it's about. I think we should also point out that you do and you have done a lot of other types of exercise other than just lifting. So people that are listening, it's not like you haven't used an exercise bike before. It's not like you haven't done sprints. It's not like you haven't done other activity other than just lift because I think that people think they can like exercise their way out of some of these things. And yeah, and I don't know how much you can. I take a lot of abuse because I do an interview and I said I I don't really
53:00 - 53:30 prescribe a a lot of cardio for my clients um because I don't think it's terribly effective for weight loss as far as energy expenditure goes. And we have plenty of research on this called the constrained energy model by Herman Ponszer. Um but I do cardio. I I three 10-minute walks a day is 210 minutes a week of exercise. The American Heart Association recommends 150. So at at a minimum you you take my recommendations you well exceed the current health recommendations for exercise. Um but
53:30 - 54:00 then I have more than that plus we train and I know Stu Phillips just recently pointed and wrote an article and pointed at the American Heart Association stating that weightlifting is equivalent to a replacement for cardio for long-term disease risk. Now both together is better than one or the other but one and the other compared to each other are equivocal. So weightlifting provides certainly um your some health benefits as well. I have both. I have the three 10-minute walks likely four if
54:00 - 54:30 you're eating four meals a day. I like to see four 10-minute walks. Um and then we do some hit training at least a couple times a week. A brief this isn't a Tabata. Uh it's on leg day warming up with the the assault bike. Um and our training especially when it's bodybuilding training is of sufficient volume and um and effort that uh you get pretty demanding uh effect for cardiovascular fitness and I know if you're going to you know if you're going to break it down into the minutia that
54:30 - 55:00 the the length the duration of that cardio does matter ultimately for uh for V2 max. Um so you'd want to see something 20 30 minutes extended but again Another the meds mentioned earlier another study came out to suggest that doesn't improve performance uh or recovery from training which we thought it would contribute to but it's still good for health. You know the bottom line is exercise is great for health but I don't for many reasons I don't ask my weight loss clients to do you know an
55:00 - 55:30 extraordinary amount of extra cardio thinking they're going to through the energy energy expenditure side of the equation burn a ton of fat. 99% of the fat loss is going to come from maintaining a calorie restriction. The exercise is great for health. Additional exercises has either a compensatory effect or significantly diminish returns on on two different uh in two different areas. One, whatever exercise you implement is going to burn fewer calories as you become as you adapt to
55:30 - 56:00 it. Yeah. You do 30 minutes of cardio on a treadmill and say presumably day one you burn 300 calories. 30 minutes later, you're burning 140 calories with the same 30 minutes of exercise, the same duration and speed. Could you increase duration and speed? Sure. But, you know, where does that end? And the other compensatory effect is that people tend when they do a lot of extra exercise, they tend to sit more and eat more. So, now they're downregulating their non-ex exercise activity and they're they they're blowing out their diet just because they're tired and hungry. Mhm. And so I'm cautious about how much and
56:00 - 56:30 the intensity of extra cardio because I think its return is minimal if not potentially uh at the sacrifice of the calorie deficit you're trying to maintain. I think some of the healthiest people in the world don't even really think about it. I don't think they think about any of the stuff that we talked about today. No. And and one you go to like Norway or Sweden, you go to these other places and other countries, they have different cultures and everything's different there. But it is interesting. They just walking is part of their day. There
56:30 - 57:00 happens to be a lot of hills. There's a lot of mountains. There's like Yeah. Just baked into their day. And ultrarocessed, hyper palatable uh calorie dense foods are less available. Uh which is a huge one. Um there is, as I think we've talked about before, there is a genetic component to obesity. uh a hormonal component with appetite dysregulation where ghrein and leptin and leptin resistance that causes uh people who suffer from obesity uh to not
57:00 - 57:30 get hungry as fast and to be hungry again sooner and to just be compelled to to eat uh to a greater degree than somebody who um might be able to easil more easily maintain their weight. They just don't have as much of that that drive. And if we always think that, you know, when we would get ready for a bodybuilding show, as you recall, you get super hungry and you're just dreaming about food and thinking about food around the clock all the time. Yeah. Literally, you'll have a dream about food. And you'll be like, I messed up on my diet like, whoops. Yep. And you
57:30 - 58:00 wake up terrified. You don't have to be 8, seven, 6% body fat to experience that. Mhm. Any weight loss, somebody at 40% body fat, who diets down to 38% body fat, is still overweight, potentially obese, has the same hunger signaling as somebody who diets from 12% body fat to 8% body fat. And so you're thinking and dreaming about food all the time. So are they. It's the same problem. Uh and so it it's not you know just a matter of of
58:00 - 58:30 how lean you get but it's any weight loss can differentially for for different people based on their genetic predisposition for uh hunger signaling uh be affected by that and their whole body fights their effort um by making them more tired decreasing their thyroid testosterone interfering with their sleep uh which makes you insulin resistant uh and then making you hungry. hungry all the time and hard to satisfy that hunger. So, and we know that, you
58:30 - 59:00 know, we know that even more than ever because now we have the u GLP-1 agonist, the semiglutide and and the rest that show us that um appetite seems to be the primary driver. Those medications are incredibly successful at taking 15 20 25% body weight reductions just simply from suppressing hunger. Let me let me ask you this, Dan. like you've you've gotten up to 300 some pounds or maybe 290 I don't know what your heaviest was but have you always had a a high
59:00 - 59:30 appetite drive but just made good food decisions and has your drive has your appetite changed at all? No, that's I always had to eat a lot of food to try and gain weight and which is always hard to do. I know people think oh wish I could be you but consistently eating five or 6,000 calories a day is a is a chore. It's it's hard work. And then trying to eat five or 6 thousand calories of food that doesn't make your health worse. And that's just lower saturated fats and simple sugars. You just try and stay with healthier foods if you can. Um that's hard. And and but
59:30 - 60:00 I always have been hungry a lot and but I've eaten um you know I I think I I I used to dirty bulk back in the early 90s and got fat. I would eat ice cream and I would have ice cream protein shakes and I would eat I would put extra cheese on one of those Totina's pizzas at night before bed and and I would wake up. I mean I had this whole plan for it's just you know pizza pasta pancakes and bacon double cheeseburgers and I did everything I could just to get enormous amount of calories and gain as much weight as I could. Uh which now we know
60:00 - 60:30 that that severity of your calorie surplus isn't going to help uh with muscle gain but it certainly in increases fat gain. So, uh, so later in my career, I I, you know, about the only thing I would do the last month before powerlifting meet is I would throw in some extra calories maybe with a a pint of ice cream at night, you know, it would be like 800 extra calories or something just to to to, you know, keep that extra weight on because I believe that mass moves mass. And I I see that the fullness effect occur in powerlifterss where you can get that
60:30 - 61:00 extra bit of bench press might not help the deadlift, but the squat and bench certainly a little bit extra water retention. Dball didn't hurt with that. You know, you get that extra five pounds of water retention. Yeah. Yeah. You want that bloat. You kind of want the bloat, you know. So, we we did everything we could to stay. Y'all are wild. And it was all about the bloat, you know. The float. It was It was It was so powerful. You almost felt like you were a geared lifter. The redder you are, the better you are. 100%. Almost felt like you were in a lifting suit when you went down and your body was just like like that. Yeah.
61:00 - 61:30 You you could feel almost like your blood pressure being high and it made you feel strong which I don't know what the correlation between the two is but well it's it's you're going to explode. So yeah stretch reflexes it happens quicker when you're all everything's all packed in like a sausage. Yeah. So it uh uh one of the things I found as I've been losing weight is that I I get I'm hungry all the time. Mhm. Um, but I can eat pretty much as much as I want because of the foods that I do eat.
61:30 - 62:00 Yeah. You know, because I don't eat pizza and cookies and and stuff like that. And so I get pretty satiated on, you know, a lot of top stone steak and chicken, egg, egg white blends, and it's yogurts, berries. Uh, but it it I'm I'm hungry every few hours. I I need to get something. And I know that gets the keto folks all riled up, and they want me to to go low carb so I won't be as hungry. But um I want for performance I want the carbohydrates. So my training sessions are better. My recovery from training is
62:00 - 62:30 better. And we do see that in terms of the way that carbohydrates affect some of those metabolite accumulations that we were talking about earlier in the muscle. We do see a post, you know, we we've found out that there's no anabolic window for protein intake. You don't need to eat protein immediately following a workout. Uh that that's more like a garage door. A few hours before, a few hours after, you're fine. and total protein for the day matters more than anything really. Um, but with carbohydrates, um, we discovered that carbohydrates before workouts, and this is my co-author of the vertical diet, Dr. Damon McHune, who's a PhD RDN, was
62:30 - 63:00 director of dietetics at UNOV, he did his PhD research on carbs carbs pre-workout. And so, we compared people who consumed carbohydrates uh, through with a drink to people who who just swished the drink around in their mouth and spit it out. They had equivalent training results. Okay. Okay. Uh but these weren't carb depleted people is is one thing that's important about that. But apparently it's it's it's more of a psychological impact that your your brain uh feels uh you know
63:00 - 63:30 your ability to to to contract muscle fibers uh has to do with your perceived level of exertion. Yeah. Okay. So it's independent necessarily of of mechanically it has a lot to do with your the uh the brain sending the signal. And if the brain is feels depleted, hungry, stressed, that all is going to affect your workout. Uh, and so, and that's another reason why like icing the day before a soccer game or a football game when you're sore helps. That does help. Uh, because it it it disconnects the pain from the brain. And
63:30 - 64:00 so your body, you don't you don't have this inhibitory signaling and so you can go out and perform at a high level. Uh so all of those things factor into um eating you know you know your your workout performance but we do see that carbs immediately post-workout helps decrease doms uh and decrease the level of of uh fatigue that your muscles experience and so that's a good time to take them particularly if you're training twice a day then it's hugely important not only to get the carbs but to get the uh the salt and
64:00 - 64:30 water in so that you're completely uh you get some glycogen but some uh sodium sodium and water back in. So, your evening workout is much better. So, that's when when the timing becomes important. Your diet doesn't seem like it doesn't seem very restrictive. I realize for someone that's on a standard American diet, maybe they eat fast food quite a bit and yeah, maybe they don't eat great, but uh with your diet, I think that most people that uh select diets or most people that try to choose a particular
64:30 - 65:00 diet, they would find that your diet has a lot of variety to it. Yeah, I'm glad you asked. Peter did had I've always said that there's many paths to the same destination and that all diets work uh and they all work for the same reason. They create a calorie deficit. But Peter kind of summarized and he was able to put them into one of three categories. CR, DR, and TR. CR being calorie restriction. Weigh and measure your food. Read labels. Make sure you're in a calorie deficit. DR is dietary restriction. That's take something out. That's your carnivore, keto, vegan,
65:00 - 65:30 paleo. You just eliminate something. Eliminate carbs. Eliminate things that cave men didn't eat. Eliminate meats, right? And then TR is time restriction. Don't need some say much about that. Alternate day or 168. Doesn't matter. Skip breakfast. So those are the three categories. All diets fit into one of those three categories or maybe a combination of two because and also why not use all those? Yeah. Some people do dietary restriction and time restriction, right? Uh but they all work for the same reason. But none of them are any better than the other. And
65:30 - 66:00 there's been thousands of studies now showing that it's very individualistic and you find the one that feels the least restrictive to you. Uh that you're not just too hungry, which is why again semiglutai GP1 agonist work so well. They just don't make you hungry irrespective of what diet you're on is you're not just compelled to overeat. And so that's that's important. The vertical [Music] diet originally was because I had seen since the late 80s I was a personal trainer in college. I was a soccer coach. I worked at box gyms. Uh, I trained athletes at University of
66:00 - 66:30 Oregon, the track and football team. I've been involved in athletes and nutrition and and competitive bodybuilding figures with Zeke bikini for 30 years. I saw that restriction was the name of the game. I saw that the guru diets were typically somebody would come show me their diet. I just had a woman Saturday at the seminar show me her diet and I was just like, it was the old guru diet, you know, it was egg whites, tilapia, broccoli, a scoop of almond butter, you know, it was that kind of thing. Makes me tired already. demonized the trainer had obviously
66:30 - 67:00 demonized red meat, fruit, dairy, the the egg yolk, salt. So, I did my Iceland seminar. It's something almost eight years ago. It's got nearly 7 million views. And I I spent two hours talking about every aspect of the diet. Uh and that I did a sideby-side comparison. Coover diet, vertical diet, more inclusive, obviously better in terms of dietary adherence, but also in terms of the micronutrient importance. uh omega-3s from salmon, iron and B vitamins from red meat, uh choline and
67:00 - 67:30 biotin from egg yolks, calcium from dairy. Uh and now Stu Phillips just did a big um report on the fact that dairy has a independent effect on BMI and performance. It's a dairy effect. He was specific to say that it wasn't a protein effect, wasn't a calcium effect, wasn't a calorie effect, it was a dairy effect. And for those people who can consume dairy, some people have allergies, some people have intolerances that that determine the amount that they can consume, which can be uh helped along
67:30 - 68:00 with things like Greek yogurt or cheese being lower in in lactose as well as Fair Life, etc. Uh I want that in every woman's diet because I need a thousand milligrams of calcium a day and it doesn't just help with bone health, it helps with blood pressure. The DASH diet, which everybody thinks is a low sodium diet, the DASH diet always had and still has and part the primary driver, I believe, of the blood pressure uh resolution is the fact that they raise potassium up to 4,700 milligrams, calcium up to 1,000 milligrams, and magnesium up to 400 milligrams. When you get those things into the diet, uh then
68:00 - 68:30 you have um then this the sodium becomes less important. Uh but it it's a huge contributor to resolving uh low blood pressure. So yes, it it is was intended to be more inclusive. But then I introduced leaning into the low FODMAP diet, which is somewhat restrictive. Certainly uh you know the vertical diet's much more inclusive than the Gubber diet, but that is a type of restriction, the FODMAP diet. And that is because at the time I was doing those seminars, I was talking to an audience
68:30 - 69:00 of competitive bodybuilding figure physique bikini and strong men, powerlifterss. So both ends of the spectrum over restriction, dirty uh dirty bulking, those people tend more than the general audience to suffer from significant digestive distress. We know chronic calorie restriction itself drives a significant amount of digestive problems as well as IBS. And we know that like you know the dirty bulking eating a pizza, pasta, pancakes all day long and uh is going to cause a lot of digestive problems. So I suggested that
69:00 - 69:30 uh based on MES University's research uh out of Australia uh and a long history of research on IBS and Crohn's there's some evidence to say that um uh that the FODMAP diet helps with Crohn's as well that they start to eat lower gas vegetables uh the fermentable olyaccharides and and polyols. All right, Mark, you're getting leaner and leaner but you always enjoy the food you're eating. So how you doing it? I got a secret man. It's called good life protein. Okay, tell me about that. I've
69:30 - 70:00 been doing some good life protein. You know, we've been talking on the show for a really long time of certified Pedmont beef and you can get that under the umbrella of Good Life Proteins, which also has chicken breast, chicken thighs, sausage, shrimp, scallops, uh all kinds of different fish, salmon, tilapia. Uh the website has nearly any kind of meat that you can think of. Lamb is another one that comes to mind. And so I've been utilizing and kind of using some different strategy kind of depending on the way that I'm eating. So
70:00 - 70:30 if I'm doing a keto diet, I'll eat more fat and that's where I might get the sausage and I might get their 8020 grass-fed grass-finish ground beef. I might get bacon. And there's other days where I kind of do a little bit more bodybuilder style where the uh fat is, you know, might be like 40 grams or something like that. Then I'll have some of the leaner cuts of the certified Pedmont beef. This is one of the reasons why like neither of us find it hard to stay in shape because we're always enjoying the food we're eating. And protein, you talk about protein, leverage it all all the time. It's
70:30 - 71:00 satiating and helps you feel full. I look forward to every meal and I can surf and turf. You know, I could cook up some uh you know, chicken thighs or something like that and have some shrimp with it. Or I could have uh some steak. I would say you know the steak it keeps going back and forth for me on my favorites. So I it's hard for me to lock one down, but I really love the Bavet steaks. Yeah. And then I also love the ribe eyes as well. You can't go wrong with the ribe eyes. So guys, if you guys want to get your hands on some really good meat, you can head to goodlife
71:00 - 71:30 proteins.com and use code power for 20% off any purchases made on the website or you can use code power project to get an extra 5% off if you subscribe and save to any meats that are a recurring purchase. this is the best meat in the world. And that some foods depend on how they're prepared or the quantity that you eat of particular foods, garlic, onions, potentially broccoli in massive amounts uh can cause uh digestive distress or potentially um flare up an
71:30 - 72:00 IBS episode. And we see that around 40 to 70% of people who implement the IBS u low FODMAP diet see a relief of their symptoms. So, working with an audience who commonly has those problems, I I had them lean into that. Now, that's not a permanent prescription, uh, it can also help you determine maybe just a few of the items that are high FODMAP that you want to pull out that you've consistently noticed make you bloat. But that's the only caveat and it's for a
72:00 - 72:30 specific circumstances intended to be to resolve digestive distress and then reintroduce over time. Uh, Paul Saladino had some of the same issues. Uh we went on his podcast years ago and uh I talked to him about the same thing with fruit uh and dairy. Uh and sure enough now he eats fruits and and yogurt. Uh then just hugely beneficial in terms of your micronutrients. I I remember sending him a DM 5 years ago and said, "What are you doing for calcium?" He's like, "Oh, there's um what did he say? There was um
72:30 - 73:00 bone marrow." I'm like, "Are you eating a thousand milligrams of calcium a day from bone marrow?" You know, it's ghost. And I'm like, "You should consider dairy." And so he said, "You should come down to my podcast. to talk about it. And so we did and sure enough ultimately you know he included those things. It's not to suggest that carnivore diet can't be can't benefit people based on the CRDRT uh you know weight loss being the primary driver of of helping people with their uh you know is it 99% of health benefits are are improved
73:00 - 73:30 simply from weight loss itself irrespective of diet but some people have you know even the sonnenberg trials on fiber introduction showed that a third of the population suffered poorly a third benefited a third had no change. Uh and so some people are adversely affected based on their current level of health by certain if not all vegetables. Who knows? Um and so when they eliminate them, they feel better. Uh but the goal would be to reintroduce over time. Interestingly enough, that same trial uh
73:30 - 74:00 at Stanford used fermented foods we may have talked about previously and uh a 100% of the participants had improved gut microbiome diversity and density from drink from eating uh yogurt, kombucha, kimchi, sauerkraut, those kinds of things. So the vertical diet is something that is always evolving, right? You're always adding to it. I'm trying to stay current with the science. when I met Damon McHune some five years ago we sat down we spent hundreds of hours together we trained
74:00 - 74:30 together you know we lived together in Vegas for years um and tried to make sure that the recommendations I made were scientifically accurate and tried to provide more nuance to some of the recommendations that I was making and so uh we have made some revisions but it it's the foundations pretty similar in terms of macros u calories are king macros protein being the primary important one there. Um, and then the diverse micronutrient uh profile, the foundation being from
74:30 - 75:00 high potassium fruits and vegetables. Uh, and then tips on both ends for satiety for weight loss and for u appetite for weight gain because I was on both ends of that spectrum throughout my career and I work with clients on both ends. So, most of that's the same. If I had to say something significantly changed in there, it would be uh what the evidence shows in terms of seed oils over the years. I can't eat them. I did a video called the real poison that's killing us using associative data of seed oil consumption with obesity
75:00 - 75:30 epidemic. Um and they're you know they they overlay but it's associative not causal. Um uh and I talked about the fact that uh I was allergic to them. So I said they are a poison to me. I'm biased. It's in my video. Um and then I uh I think that it was uh that I had asked Tucker Goodrich to come on with Alan Flanigan. Yeah. uh to debate that out because I thought they were both the most knowledgeable people on both sides of that topic and it was a two and a half hour debate and at the conclusion of that um I just felt like that uh that
75:30 - 76:00 Allen had the more compelling scientific basis behind that and that was some four plus years ago now. Uh and since then we just have an enormous amount of research suggesting that that we don't have we can't identify seed oils as being inflammatory. Matter of fact, probably just the opposite. Uh or in the absence of their association with ultrarocessed food, which is how 70% of them are consumed. So, I'm not dismissing the fact that that the foods that they're in tend to be things you should avoid, or
76:00 - 76:30 the deep fried foods. We do see in repeatedly reheated oils inflam inflammatory markers and increased cancer incidents. So, it's the it's that process uh that and that's where a lot of them are consumed. Yeah. Fries, um you know, chicken wings, etc. the deep fat friers and I spoke about that in the video as well. Uh so but I'm not um uh you know if somebody consumes seed oils I'm I'm I'm not in the position to say based on the evidence that u that that's causing obesity um in the absence of the
76:30 - 77:00 foods they're associated with or that they're inflammatory. And so I made those revisions and our book that came out some three years ago now the vertical diet that was in on Amazon and is in Barnes & Noble. Uh you'll notice that those revisions have been made and I said just exactly what we've just discussed here now that um um I also wouldn't take anything out of my diet and replace it with a seed oil. That's very important because my diet's all whole foods ultrarocessed. I wouldn't take a a fat out and this is what the guru diet does. The guru diet takes the
77:00 - 77:30 egg yolk out and puts peanut butter in. That's going backwards. Okay. Yeah. I wouldn't take the egg yolk out and put canola oil in. And I don't have a highsaturated fat diet to begin with. If I said I keep my fats below 30%, I keep my saturated fats below 10% by using top sirloin steak, which is very lean. Um I remember uh uh Tanner uh just he actually come out and shot a video with me and trained in Vegas, but he's a big proponent of red meat, but he was concerned that he was eating the vertical diet and his LDL was elevated.
77:30 - 78:00 Um and he said, "But I'm eating red meat." And he said, "Well, you can eat 100% of your daily protein," which you wouldn't, but you could with top sirloin steak. 200 grams a day of protein from top turning steak um and you would have less than 4% of your total calories come from saturated fat. So there are lean meats that fit within that American Heart Association recommendation. I wouldn't eat 100% of my diet from red meat. I have a diverse number of of uh foods in there with obviously with yogurt and salmon and um and egg white
78:00 - 78:30 blends. But the point being is I've always kept saturated fats under 10%. So that didn't change. Yeah. So the key things, calories, macronutrients, micronutrients, and some of the specific foods um as discussed are pretty much the same that I felt back in the early 90s as I did when I wrote the diet 10 years ago and and as I do today with some minor changes. I tuned up the sodium recommendations and made sure that I distinguished between uh which was also in my video hypertensive people versus active
78:30 - 79:00 athletes and um the need for their salt intake. So uh people don't think that it's a panacea. Why did you move? Oh my goodness. I tell you, I met my wife 24 years ago in Seattle and she was born and raised in American Samoa. I don't know if I told this story before on your show, but uh she applied for a job at my business and I was like, she came in, she had this this long flowered, you know, uh Polynesian dress on. Look at
79:00 - 79:30 his eyes lighting up. Yeah. Curly hair all the way down to her butt. Flower in her ear, you know. Oh man. Absolutely beautiful island girl. Toast. Toast. She walks in and I'm like, "You're hired. Can't type, no experience. Come on in. I don't have HR. Yeah. So, of course, now I'd be like I'd be like the hashtagme too guy, you know, but this was 24 years ago, so it was perfectly about a year after that, we started dating. We've been together ever since.
79:30 - 80:00 But, um, uh, we visited the island periodically over the years. You guys know I've been back to do seminars there and, uh, and just really always loved it there. Go back and visit her family. Uh, they grew up a the island's broken up into villages. It's still very traditional. Uh, they don't have a lot of tourism there. I probably only, you know, it's two-story building is the tallest on the island pretty much. I think speed limit is 25 miles an hour. It's a beautiful volcanic island in the South Pacific Ocean about 5 hours off the coast of uh New Zealand. Is the speed limit really 25 miles? It really is 25 miles an hour throughout the whole
80:00 - 80:30 island. I have a golf cart. I drive my little golf cart on the island. That's that's what I do. There I am. Everybody kind of know each other kind of Everybody knows each other or is somewhat related, a distant cousin or whatever. Uh it's a it's a great community of of very traditional people who are still steeped in tradition and and values and um very kid oriented. I have a you know a 10 and one now 11 and 13year-old and uh we went to visit Christmas before last and uh just had a great time. We went snorkeling, played golf and swimming. Um just had a
80:30 - 81:00 fantastic went hiking out on the Manua Island um or Anu Island. Uh it just looks just beautiful. It's like Honolulu without the tourism. It's a volcanic island. It's probably, if it were a rectangle, it' be four miles by 18 miles. It's the size of the island. Most of the people live along the shoreline, of course, and the mountains just go right up and touch the sky um with all the greenery and stuff that's in there. But, uh my wife asked me if we would move if
81:00 - 81:30 she would if I would ever be interested in moving there because we had this fantastic vacation over Christmas time. Well, as it turns out, they had indoor pickle ball and they had a a a pickle ball association of American Samo with about a hundred members and I spent every day of the two weeks like if we were going to go hiking or we were going to go fishing or if we were going to go snorkeling, I always made sure I was back in time so I could play pickle ball. And there's such a fantastic group of people down there. The the people that I've met that play pickle ball are amazing. They're from all different soio economic groups and and uh age levels
81:30 - 82:00 and and men and women both. and you got 65-year-old former tennis player ladies just kicking my ass, you know, and like [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] And there it's just a great great group of people. But I've just enjoyed, you know, playing all this time. But when she asked if I would move back there, I'm like, "Sure, I'll go back." I didn't mention that they had indoor pickle ball. It was the most compelling reason that I would go back there. So, we went uh is this uh this is Sunset Park in in Vegas? Yeah. Um this one guy that I took coaching lessons from. He's a real good player down there. But uh we uh we sold the house
82:00 - 82:30 and we moved down there about nine months ago last summer and uh and the kids are in a school there and they've they've they love it and I'm able to take them to school in the morning in my in my golf cart and pick them up in the afternoon and in between that time I'm usually swimming or I had some seed sent down. I ride on the lagoon uh out uh there's an ocean break and there huge lagoon right up against the mountains. It's phenomenal. Play some golf. Any cava bars over there? Any what? Cava bars. I'm not familiar with those on the
82:30 - 83:00 island. I mentioned that there's only Fiji though. I know they have a lot of cava. The cava is just like a relaxing like herb that people drink. There's no marijuana on the island. There's no guns in the island. It's extremely safe. Kids can go anywhere they want, whenever they want. There's, you know, generations of family and relatives that all play parents. It takes a village to raise a kid. So, one of the huge great benefits there is that in Vegas, I wouldn't let my kids out of my sight. And in Samoa, they can they can walk to the grocery store, they can go to the park. um all the kids are doing it, you know, and and it's just a community of kids. But it's
83:00 - 83:30 been great. It's really been fantastic for us and and we'll be there at least till our kids graduate from high school and and go off to college. So, it's another seven years that we intend to uh then to stay there and we've settled in nicely. The villages or the island is broken up into villages I mentioned. And within the villages, you've got communal land that the families have grown up on. This was the land that my wife grew up on is where we're currently staying where she grew up. Uh, and it had, you know, there's multiple homes on this communal land that's a shared space. And most of them have gardens, pretty big
83:30 - 84:00 gardens. The island is lush with food. I mean, with all the rain and the sun that comes down there, it's just food growing around you. We have avocado tree in our in right in front of the house, which drops avocados in the ground. We have papaya and mango. There's pineapple and coconuts. Uh, there's tar root and carrots and bananas. And um and uh a lot of the um a lot of the Chinese folks that uh come to the island, they'll do most of the gardening and harvesting uh and then all along the roadway um you'll see about every hundred feet there's
84:00 - 84:30 a a stand, a fruit and vegetable stand just loaded with all this. You just pull over every single day and grab all the fruits and vegetables that you want. And usually, you know, about every 200 feet, there's a a big half barrel with a grill top on it of chicken being barbecued and the the the smoke wafting into the roadways, just smelling teriyak chicken as you go. So, it's it's just a fantastic environment. So, I feel like I'm on a permanent vacation. It took me months to just calm down and not feel like there was something I needed to do.
84:30 - 85:00 I have to be somewhere. And, you know, you're just calm. You know, you're calm when you're driving. You're not running around like in Vegas. You're like, "Yeah, [ __ ] you." You honk down there. When you honk, it's to tell somebody thank you. It's a completely different environment. It's the most peaceful, kindest people. They always come up to me, they're like, "Oh, muscle." The kids, the adults, it doesn't matter. Yeah. And they're they're perfectly comfortable in everybody's family. And you said they don't care if you're late and stuff like that, right? No. The kids will come to the school late sometimes and it's I'm like, "Do you need a note? You No, it
85:00 - 85:30 doesn't matter. You don't have a there's no schedule. There's you don't really look at a watch or a calendar. It's just, you know, and if if I'm like, my wife says, "Oh, dinner's at 5." So at 4:50, of course, I'm standing there tapping my foot with my hands, you know, and I'm I'm like, "We got to go. We got to go. It's 10 minutes away." And she's like, "No, no, no." She goes, "Nobody's showing up till 600." Yeah. We get there at 5:30 and we're like the first people there. And I'm looking around. I'm This is going to be a dead event, you know, at 6:00 or so. It's packed. Yeah. That's the island. It's a beautiful place. Beautiful people. I did a we did a video
85:30 - 86:00 uh that you hosted for me was uh uh the fattest people in the world video. Is that what I think the title was? Where I talked a little bit about uh how my wife grew up on the island with no running water and a a hole in the ground for an outhouse. And I talked told the story about how they had a pipe from the stream for a shower. I didn't realize that was for the whole village. Wow. That wasn't just their pipe. They had one pipe from the stream for a shower that all the families used uh and took turns. So it was it was quite primitive. They they slept on reed mats on a dirt
86:00 - 86:30 ground and they had a forpost hut with a grass thatch roof and blankets hanging down for walls. No windows, no TV of course, no electronics. Uh uh it was quite a primitive upbringing. They would raise pigs and uh goats and all of the fruits and vegetables and everything they could harvest from the sea and they would take it to the marketplace and and barter and and then uh ultimately cool environment for your children to grow. Oh, it's fantastic. They've acclimated so well and of course they have the relatives. My wife has 11 brothers and sisters and they all have kids and so
86:30 - 87:00 it's just a it's just family everywhere we go. Um well then food stamps were introduced to the island and people stopped growing all their own food and of course now as I mentioned the Chinese usually harvest and sell it now. Uh and so you know they have a surplus of of whatever's affordable to bring to the island which is usually a a store full of the the foundational cheapest foods are seed oils, white flour and sugar and that's the base of most of their dishes unfortunately. So, they do have a they suffer from pretty significant amount of
87:00 - 87:30 obesity on the island as a result of the the cheap ultrarocessed foods and overconumption of those. Where can people find you? Where can they get the vertical diet? Stan efering. Everything's at stanfering.com is my website. I've got my vertical diet meal prep. I send Monster Mash to doorways all throughout the country. Monster Mash, greatest invention of all time, by the way. And 50 other meals. They're all in there. That's the vertical diet. And then, of course, the vertical diet uh ebook is now in the 4.0 version. Anybody who bought a previous version gets the new versions for free. And if you want the new version, it's now over 250
87:30 - 88:00 pages, 200 references to videos, articles, and peer-reviewed research supporting everything we talked about today and more. And um and then Stan Effording is also the YouTube and Stan Eferting is the Instagram. Monster Mash. I'm just thinking about it right now. So good. I'm going Costco. Strength is never weakness. Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.