Talk with Rapha (Rio Terminal Emulator Creator) | Rio | TMUX | Boo editor | Charm.sh | Myst parser

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Summary

In this engaging conversation, Rapha, the creator of the Rio terminal emulator, discusses his journey in developing Rio, his experiences with programming languages like Rust, and the challenges and joys of maintaining an open-source project. He shares his thoughts on terminal emulators, code editors, and the integration of modern features into traditional tools. The video also delves into Rapha's personal journey from Brazil to working internationally, and his passion for creating inclusive and accessible software. Overall, Rapha provides insights into software development, collaboration in the tech community, and the evolving world of coding tools.

Highlights

Rapha discusses the origins and development of his terminal emulator, Rio 🖥️.
He shares his thoughts on the current state of terminal emulators and their evolution 🔄.
The conversation highlights challenges and innovations in coding tools like TMUX and editors like NeoVim ✨.
Rapha talks about the fun and complexity involved in collaborating in open-source communities 🌐.
He candidly shares his personal journey from Brazil to becoming an internationally recognized software developer 🌎.

Key Takeaways

Rapha is passionate about creating inclusive, easy-to-use software accessible to everyone 🌍.
He emphasizes the importance of community collaboration while developing terminal tools 🤝.
The discussion touches on the performance benefits and challenges of using Rust for development 🚀.
Rapha shares his experiences and the advantages of working with open-source projects 🛠️.
He stresses the need for modernizing terminal software while preserving essential functionality 🖥️.

Overview

Rapha's journey into software development began in Brazil, where he first got involved with programming through personal projects. His early passion for technology has driven him to explore various facets of software creation, including developing the Rio terminal emulator and working in the open-source community.

During the conversation, Rapha shares his experiences with different programming languages, notably his fondness for Rust. He elaborates on the development of Rio, discussing the challenges faced by terminal emulator developers and his goals in designing a user-friendly and efficient tool.

The video provides an insightful look into Rapha's career growth and his dedication to creating inclusive tech tools. It underscores his belief in community collaboration and innovation, stressing the importance of modernizing software tools while maintaining their core functionalities.

Chapters

00:00 - 01:00: Introduction The chapter "Introduction" discusses the Brazilian perspective on a certain issue involving Neoen and the impact on the team. The speaker seems amused and notes that the question comes at an opportune moment. They identify as a terminal user and express indifference, but acknowledge the difficulties faced by terminal maintainers when dealing with T-Max.
01:00 - 19:00: Discussion on Terminal Emulators The chapter discusses the role of terminal emulators and highlights that while they provide cosmetic benefits, their aesthetic appeal significantly enhances user experience. The conversation suggests that focusing too much on perfecting these visuals can lead to a never-ending cycle of refinement which may not be essential to everyone. Overall, the chapter implies that while appearance matters, it's important to recognize when enough is enough.
19:00 - 30:00: Collaboration and Challenges in Terminal Development The chapter discusses the mindset of constantly seeking out plugins in development environments, particularly in relation to VS Code (Visual Studio Code). The conversation reveals an internal conflict about using VS Code, suggesting that the speaker feels some discomfort or embarrassment when others see them using it. The chapter could explore broader themes of development tool preferences and the social perceptions tied to them.
30:00 - 42:00: Working with Tmux This chapter is introduced as both a podcast and video by Link Caru, who provides ways to support the content through donations on Kofi. The chapter features a discussion with Rafa, the creator of the real terminal, who expresses excitement to participate.
42:00 - 54:00: Challenges in Terminal Emulator Development The chapter introduces Rio, a terminal emulator. The speaker recalls a previous interaction about Rio on Twitter and asks for more information. It is made clear that Rio functions like a terminal emulator similar to KP.
54:00 - 69:00: Open Source Community Engagement This chapter discusses various aspects of open source community engagement. Goldie and Alac, along with their contributions to the foundational development of Rio, are highlighted. The broad array of contributions from community leaders worldwide is acknowledged, stressing the diversity and choice available within the open source ecosystem, particularly with emulators. The chapter emphasizes the excitement and personalization in choosing and using different emulators, drawing parallels to the personal preference people have with browsers.
69:00 - 84:00: Personal Background and Career The chapter titled 'Personal Background and Career' explores the influence of past memories on the choice of technology, such as browsers. The speaker discusses an emotional or memory-based connection to their selected browser, suggesting it offers enhanced functionalities that reflect their unique personal history and preferences. However, these specialized choices are suggested to be pragmatic, ultimately reverting to standard functionalities by the end of the day.
84:00 - 100:00: Charm and Open Source Contributions The chapter begins with a discussion about a terminal emulator named Rio. There is some curiosity about the origin of its name. The speaker reflects on how people associate the name with 'AU,' possibly from their city or region, which hints at a deeper story behind the naming. The chapter seems to imply that there's more to explore about the name's significance.
100:00 - 116:00: Discussion on Boo Editor The chapter discusses an individual's plans to fly to Brazil, which were halted due to immigration issues and visa delays. During this time, there is mention of an emulator initially named 'ox,' which is likened to a reserve at 'W.' The name was considered temporary, and it appears there was an intention or thought process behind renaming it.
116:00 - 122:00: Bash Parser Project The chapter titled 'Bash Parser Project' kicks off with the author's failed attempt to purchase tickets to an event. The situation seemed so absurd that the author initially perceived it as a joke. Over time, the author came to accept and even appreciate the name 'he,' as it persisted without change and became a quirky symbol of the author's experience during the months leading to the development of the 'Bash Parser Project.' The chapter captures how a simple, humorous event sparked a lasting personal attachment and shaped the project's identity.
122:00 - 134:00: Boo Editor Development and Philosophy The chapter discusses the development and philosophy of the Boo Editor, touching upon a conversation about a person from Brazil. It seems to delve into aspects of identity and places, mentioning the connection to Brazil and a specific event or visit to S. Paulo. The dialogue reflects a casual exchange, possibly among friends, relating personal anecdotes about the mentioned person visiting Brazil.
134:00 - 145:00: Challenges in Developing an Editor In this chapter titled 'Challenges in Developing an Editor,' the narrator reflects on an event, possibly a convention, though they admit uncertainty about the details. There is speculation that part of the event was centered around one individual, possibly hinting at a special recognition or tailored experience for that person, but the narrator acknowledges that their memory of the circumstances may not be completely accurate. The chapter highlights the challenges of retaining detailed memories about events and the importance of clarity in communication.
145:00 - 160:00: Editor Preferences and Experiences The chapter titled 'Editor Preferences and Experiences' explores the preferences and experiences of editors, particularly with a humorous discussion about programming and terminal usage. It mentions the Brazilian influence on terminal usage with tools like NV and Htop and includes a joke among programmers that using these tools is akin to embracing a Brazilian stack. The discussion reflects on the familiarity and preference for certain languages and tools within the programmers' community.
160:00 - 180:00: Operating System Preferences The chapter discusses preferences for the Rust programming language among developers from different regions, including Africa and Brazil. There is a conversation about the performance benefits of Rust and the speaker expresses a personal preference for the language.
180:00 - 199:00: Wrap-Up and Closing Remarks The speaker reflects on their fondness and preference for Mozilla products, particularly Firefox, throughout their career, identifying themselves as a "Mozilla fanboy." They express admiration for Mozilla's open practices and mention a curiosity about new languages started by Mozilla. However, they have not kept up with Mozilla's recent developments.

Talk with Rapha (Rio Terminal Emulator Creator) | Rio | TMUX | Boo editor | Charm.sh | Myst parser Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 What are the Brazilian guys gonna say? Brazil mentioned you're destroying Neoen. I want to know what you think about this team. Man, this has been like a this has been actually funny because you're doing the question the right question in the right time. Me as a terminal user, yep, I don't care. But I do understand the pain that terminal maintainers go through with T-Max. I just want to hear your
00:30 - 01:00 thoughts. Yeah, it's helpful. It helps you see where you're at, right? Uh at least to me, it helps me see. It's a is a is a cosmetic, man. Let's not lie here. But it just makes everything feels better. Let's put that away. I think that this is like a big mistake of nail in general. like people don't really care. They don't really want to spend, you know, like polishing like too much stuff. It's like it's a no ending cycle.
01:00 - 01:30 Like you just keep finding new stuff and they develop this mentality that where you actually start to think about plugins all the time and you know seek for plugins. I don't want to be the guy that criticizes that but you did because now I did and I'll keep doing but it's like maybe I have something against VS Code. I don't know. was like, uh, but uh, no, I think I think VS Code comes from You're ashamed. You're ashamed that people see you using VS Code. Is that
01:30 - 02:00 it? If you're listening to this as a podcast, remember that it was originally recorded as a video. If you're not following along, you can go to my YouTube channel. My username is Link Caru. And if you want to support me to keep this podcast going, you can donate in Kofi. I'm going to leave a link in the description. All right, so let's get started with this chapter, then. What do we have today? We have Rafa here with us. He's the creator of the real terminal. How's it going, Rafa? Good. Excited to be here. Okay. Thanks for
02:00 - 02:30 your time. Thanks for for sharing with us about Rio. You mind just letting us know what Rio is? I tried it a few days ago, but um well, no, a few months ago. We talked in Twitter. Not sure if you remember. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. So I do remember. You want to share about Rio? What is it? Yeah. Rio is like a term emulator. It's like like KP and
02:30 - 03:00 Goldie and Alac actually. Rio is like built from a lot of stuff from Alac like originally. Um and you know like there's so many actually term leaders everywhere, right? like it's it's hard to it's like browsers is like everyone love one and uh I think that this is a thing this is a very exciting thing about emulators in general because like you can choose the one that you feel they are
03:00 - 03:30 more attached or like I don't know like like connected to it I don't know like kind of like it's like browsers like I choose like my browser because like I have this memory attachment from my past. So it's like uh but in the same way like uh it it is supposed to get turned down later in the end of the day with like the basic like emulator like functionalities.
03:30 - 04:00 M okay so it's just um well it is a terminal emulator then and why the name Rio man this is actually a funny question because like I was thinking about this these days like people often they associate with AU from my city like EU but and kind of is is kind of like the the the story is almost there but actually has a bit or I was going to
04:00 - 04:30 marry like uh or was going to fly to Brazil like in that time but I could not go due to like some immigration stuff. I was waiting for my visa to go out and then back in time the emulator had another name was like ox. Ox is like a reserve at W and like someone was just like, "Yeah, I need to rename this." And I thought I I bought he actually as a placeholder cuz we
04:30 - 05:00 could not buy tickets to he like I literally could not buy tickets to he to play and I thought like okay we just thought this is a joke and then it remained there like like I never really changed it back to any other thing like so I was I wanted to do the things that go and it does you know the I thought it was actually cool to do but I kind of got attached after a while. Like it work for a few months with that name. It's
05:00 - 05:30 just like you don't see that thing with a different name, right? Like and then end up being that way. Rio. So it's related to Brazil then, right? Yeah. He's from my hometown. Yeah. Brazil mentioned like the prime. Yeah, exactly. With the flag. Yeah. He went there in in I think he went for S. Paulo. A few friends of mine met. It was very nice like that you went there. Oh
05:30 - 06:00 yeah, I I I did see that it was ato convention or something. I don't remember what it was. Right. I think actually they they made I don't know the whole story. I could be I could be actually not not being like someone could correct me later but I thought that they actually build the whole thing for him you know like was the whole the whole conference like just about him or something like that I don't know the whole story but I thought it was that okay okay and lua
06:00 - 06:30 what language is it written in I'm sorry real yeah is from like mentioned again. Yeah. And NV as well and Htop like I I joke with like few people from charm that if you use terminals it's very likely they use like a Brazilian like stack. Yeah. cuz like uh yeah new be start from like
06:30 - 07:00 few Brazilians as well but uh it's built in rust and uh yeah like uh you know African brand has opinions about rust like positively or negatively. Oh and why did you choose rust? Is it because of performance reasons or Yeah, I I always like it rust like uh like I think uh I I have been you know
07:00 - 07:30 people say that they're Google fanboy or Apple fanboy. I think I was has been a Mozilla fanboy like since I started my career like I used Firefox because I like it then like so when they started a new language I thought like oh one day I'm going to give a try and I I like it the fact that they did a lot of things open and I don't know how is now like it's not like I have been following then that much like now but like uh when they
07:30 - 08:00 started developing Rust I was following very close but I I never used it because I was working with other languages like Python, JavaScript, Ruby and like in in my life came opportunity to work with Rust in the work. So I thought like well let's just write real real projects in Rust like in my free
08:00 - 08:30 time to learn the language. So I start to write in the Game Boy emulator that also runs in the terminal. Um, and after the Game Boy, I thought like, okay, like I kind of had a taste of like, you know, like uh you learn about registers and like how the face work, the CPU, the memory, the GPU, and then you're just like, man, I actually want to keep going that way. And then I wanted to do something that uses GPU, but was not
08:30 - 09:00 just GPU based. And I I kind of clicked when I was using Kitty uh cuz I was just like, "Oh, I could do something like that." So I started to work on he because of that. Okay. So Rust started it. You were using Kitty at that time when you decided to start with Man, I I actually use it all the terminals. I would say like it's it's true. Like uh I use it a bit of
09:00 - 09:30 everything. Like it's kind of a like we're jo I was joking with you before we recorded that you have Ghosty and Kitty as well, right? Yeah. But I I can relate to you have all the terminals installed at the mainstream and I mean I work for charm so it's like uh it's also I need to test things in different terminals but before work for them I I had all the terminals. I think that is it's like they're fantastic like piece of software to be honest. Like uh it's almost like Pokemon you need you
09:30 - 10:00 need to catch them all. Yeah, definitely. I started with iterm. I don't have iterm installed anymore. No, but then I moved to Alacity. I don't have Alacity installed anymore, but I have now um Ghosty Kitty Western Rio. I have it installed as well. What else? Real mention. Yeah. Brazil mention. Yes. Which ones do you use? Which terminals? Which is your main one? Is it real? It
10:00 - 10:30 is real. Like I mean it would be weird if I maintain it real and didn't use it the main one. Yeah. But uh I think I use Rio like 95% or 98%. But often when I'm developing stuff like for example now I'm developing box characters like to be draw like as ghost does and kitty does. So in these moments
10:30 - 11:00 I actually open the other terminals cuz I need to compare like how how they do and how I want to do. though like I think in like um maybe at charm as well I do but in also like if you work with terminals like for example if you work for charm you also need to give a very good compatibility support so you need to test a lot of things in Apple terminal like you cannot just ignore those terminals so you have to take the
11:00 - 11:30 apple terminal and also iTerm into account. Yeah, I do have like actually I I I try to use everything. So like I see what's good from which and try to take a bit. I think my favorite outside of he has been Ghosty. Mhm. But um but I I think like I have a different view from Mish, which is a great guy by the way. Like when he started like the
11:30 - 12:00 terminal that he reached out by email, I didn't know who he was. Uhhuh. And it was funny because everyone knew H and I talked about him in the conference one time and then people like oh so you're friends with Bashim Mo and I was just like how do you guys know him? Like I didn't you know I I came from a different background. I didn't know like I came from front end like so I was like what is going on and I used to work with
12:00 - 12:30 back end early in my career but like was like a long time ago so I used to float back end front end I did a bit of working data analysis like I like to switch so in that time of my career was working with back end and then people thought like the like they didn't know who he was and then you know he he reached out I thought that he was just like you know a random guy just talk with me and then suddenly everyone was
12:30 - 13:00 you know like oh this guy is like really famous and and blah blah blah but you know never appeared to me that he was that way. Oh yeah you were not aware of the Hashi Corp products. Yeah. No I never connected those things like I don't I learned it actually in the conference. Oh okay. I sent the message to him actually after that I was just like dude you actually bring pretty famous like I didn't even know okay that's that's a funny story okay
13:00 - 13:30 why did he reach out to talk about terminals he sent a email now I think someone because he tweeted something about his terminal back in time and someone reach someone told like do you know real and then he was like no I've used it real and I I like it and I I will um I'm going to try to talk with the developer of he and then I don't know I think I
13:30 - 14:00 had my email public. I don't remember the whole story. This mean few years ago like and he sent an email like with like few paragraphs like and and I told him like dude let's just talk in the discord and so like uh I start to just like talk about terminals and what we we thought that was cool and like how I think that I think actually that is missing a bit more in the universe of terminals. there's like this collab between
14:00 - 14:30 terminals because like uh there's so much specs that we could be working together and everyone's doing kind of their own protocol like now Kitty is developing their own font protocol and I think it's is great but also I was working something similar to that that looks a bit different so it you know kind of like it's just Like I feel that kind of needs like this. Mhm.
14:30 - 15:00 Talk about all each other sometimes the collaboration. So you don't do the same thing over and over, right? Yeah. And and also discuss, right? You have this in the web like with the working group or committee that people see it and they they're like, "Oh, I like this idea or this idea is not good." Before you actually add protocols like you you start to validate with people. I don't know like cuz if you get quick traction like sometimes the things just stay
15:00 - 15:30 there forever and then like all the terminals just are going to implement because everybody's asking. I don't know. I see. Yeah. So if it the feature becomes popular all of the other terminals are going to implement it and probably create a version on their own. Exactly. When you could use something common all of the terminals, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean something in the line of thought, right? Like that we could go do more things together. I I don't know.
15:30 - 16:00 But I think also that every terminal emulator developer they also kind of they like they own on their own sometimes like because the profiles that I have on top of my mind is like they they're pretty much developing stuff alone and then it's also I understand them as well also a bit like that. So I I I think it's a bit complicated.
16:00 - 16:30 And isn't there like a Discord um channel where all the terminal guys are where you can talk? No, there's not. Yeah. Someone from Sean um told me that there's like this like this place where people discuss stuff. Um, I had to try it to be honest like and I feel like uh I didn't know if they had like the term now because sometimes like I think it's like sometimes people
16:30 - 17:00 they have the idea that would be good to have like they come with their own protocol but without the really understanding of like how a terminal emulator works and it's like for example accurate like Um they I understand why they never develop like the image protocols if you're the one asking for it. Yep. Because I was asking for it as well. Yep. Yeah. Because like in some way if
17:00 - 17:30 you if you develop your own render in the terminal emulator you see that they they have like the they architecture and they part particularities uh where they base the the like I I'm not going to enter like the tech technical approach of it but it's like to add something as the image protocol like you need to change stuff and that's how ghosty also adapted how they do stuff like cuz you need to actually
17:30 - 18:00 revamp your architecture to do that and you're going to pay performance. It's like I think one thing that Hashimoto talks that I like that I like it on his article was like when he people are comparing a lot and his terminal he says like yeah sure like but in the same way the more stuff you add for the terminal like it's likely that you're going to I mean sure it's going to be fast but it's like like not necessarily a little bit faster
18:00 - 18:30 than something that does the simple job. So it's like if you if you have like a really small mod module that just proc that process text like so takes that text and you know plots on the screen like just rendering how that's going to be faster than like um I don't know something that deals with image UI everything like so the more features you actually
18:30 - 19:00 asking like oh I want to have like one liatures. I want to have this. So, you're going to end up paying price for it because like it's how it works. And you can of course optimize the terminal to be really fast. You could like write a lot of logic like you use like it's parallel processing, send everything. But in the same way, if the other version that simple do the same optimization is still going to be faster. It's like it's the same concept of like algorithms like there is no way
19:00 - 19:30 like uh you know what I mean like 14 like this is is lower than like two four I mean of course like I think this in the very row mode like there's case and cases but you see what I mean like if you're dealing with more input they need to do more process they are and and they are like work work and you can like you're going to keep increasing the time. Yeah. So I I respect I like it a
19:30 - 20:00 lot for the decisions that they take. Uh but I also understand the community necessities that they people just want like to determine to modernize a bit. I feel that yeah is I think is is is a very Ricky uh situation because like right I think there is like a I think a needs to exist like they need to exist like they need to be they need to
20:00 - 20:30 be the the the example of like option for people they just want the basic and the fastest. Yep. Definitely. And you know what I mean like and and other options should exist. That's why I was talking that like I have all the terminals cuz like every every terminals does something different and I I I kind of like it. Yep. I would probably still be an elacrity if it wasn't for images.
20:30 - 21:00 It's not like I need images, you know, but I kind of I kind of just feeling that you're missing out, right? Yeah, but like you mentioned, right? That's why we have so many different options. So, yeah, I don't know. I just like I just like viewing images cuz I just quickly want to see. Okay, so let's say that I'm working on something. I always open this file. This is the file. But um I just want to see okay, yeah,
21:00 - 21:30 this is the right image right now. I just want to see that. I just want to confirm basically when I paste an image in any of them that I have the right image right because otherwise I would have to open a preview I can't do that you know in the browser but I don't know it's just but I have options no I I am with you I'm with you that's why you use kitty and like ghosty like and and real but I think that like
21:30 - 22:00 uh in terms of image protocol like Uh he is far behind like KT and like he still needs to catch up with Mhm. But it's like what does sorry what does Ghostly use? Does it use the Kitty graphics protocol? Yeah, exactly. And uh and he does support 6. I think like uh Kitty does not support 6 and gold central does not
22:00 - 22:30 support and and both all the terminals they support also the i2 protocol as well. And I have a very important question for you as a go for it. Terminal developer. Right. Go for it. I want to know what you think about this T-Max. Man, this has been like a this has been actually funny because you're doing the
22:30 - 23:00 question the right question in the right time. Uh last week in char we're discussing this like cuz everyone have their opinions, right? Yeah. And I I think like I think the following like uh um do you use T-Max? I use T-Max. Yeah. Right. So I think this like T-max is great and if you if you think for a user
23:00 - 23:30 perspective is is like you don't care like what what is like terminal developer perspective because you don't maintain a terminal. Yeah. Like exactly right. So you just want like something that works for you. Yeah. You don't really care. Me as a terminal user. Yep. I don't care. But I do understand the pain that terminal maintainers go through with T-Max. I just want to hear your thoughts. Yeah. No, exactly. I I
23:30 - 24:00 think like uh I think like uh overall I think it's a great like tooling. Um it's hard to even imagine like something replacing T-Max nowadays like uh cuz this is so wide use it. Everyone that use terminal sort of how uses it or uses LJ and back in time use it to use screen. Um but uh but I think like like I'm not
24:00 - 24:30 in that position to judge people. They also don't maintain turn. So it's like why you going to judge then? You know what I mean? I actually start to develop like a multiplexer on my own just to because okay so this is the deal. T-max is like a program that creates TTY and then manages that for you and the terminal is a bit gets a bit confused because like you're running a program that is managing TTY and returning it
24:30 - 25:00 like for you and then you know like you're talking about capabilities you talk about a lot of stuff that is like T-Max is doing out of the wood so they're doing is T-Max like running another terminal in your terminal Exactly. So they keep creating like uh like yeah like terminal instance for you and managing that for you. Uh so I started to think like okay like it it it
25:00 - 25:30 is kind of like a a layer between the terminal program no sorry the emulator the program and the terminal because like so the program is the layer between the host and the terminal itself the pty p terminal and uh so I started to work on the proof of concept There's like I don't know when this is going to be done but I I start
25:30 - 26:00 to create like okay so what if I create a managed instances through the terminal via like an so like I ask the terminal to create like a instance and then like once I have an instance I can just ask for like any information about the running instance to the terminal. So I start to work on the multiplexer that like it that does not feel like a hack like for the terminal perspective. So I give to the terminal
26:00 - 26:30 the power to create and and manage instances and just notify the running program. Um I don't know when it's going to be done. I I was able to work like to get this working but it's not the same way. It's just like just here is a lot of work in my daily basis. So, it's just like I don't know when I'm going to be, you know, finishing wrapping that up. But yeah. And how
26:30 - 27:00 is compatibility? Let's say that T-Max adds a new feature. What does that mean for you as a terminal maintainer? Do you need to make it compatible with your terminal? Yeah, like as as long it this is a bit like complex because it depends of the feature, right? So it's like uh when we talk about image protocols or like stuff like that, t max needs to recognize understand the the
27:00 - 27:30 capabilities that you have from the host. So that is why people a lot of times you open the issues and and like it's funny because like for example SSH like you try to connect from a service from a server and then or you know like trying to do something somewhere but the host the term that you have is a different host sorry the host that you are is is a different term than the server that you are running at. So it start to have like a very weird like
27:30 - 28:00 response like it starts you know like oh I'm typing and something very strange happen yeah and I think that is the thing with the so you often need to map that out tomax and but that does not necessarily just because that is why I said depends of the future in general there's enough but there is a lot of other stuff they also need map out cuz you also need like Demox to
28:00 - 28:30 uh again like from a third developer perspective is a bit of is is not nice like has a lot of a lot of user issues that comes to he is like teammax you know intervening in the stuff and actually doing stuff that he should be doing or and I understand why people like they talk about debug I I think like I don't want to be the terminal developer that just criticize it because
28:30 - 29:00 I used demox for a long time and then so if you're a user like that's not does not really matter like you want the term not to work for you and you want you just understand like you just want to go to you and open your issue and say like hey man this is broke but then like but then you you some most of the times people are forgetting the configuration so you just ask in the issue, are you using T-Max? And if they answer yes, you
29:00 - 29:30 just close the issue right away. Yeah, I know some people that actually did that. I'm not going to mention names, but like uh is is not is not the best. Like I try to to be kind to people over the issues. Yeah, it's really complex as a user as well. Getting T-max in between, you know, terminal T-max and your application, it's another layer that you have to take into consideration. So if you don't know what you're doing, it's cuz I remember I had an issue with western, right? So I tried to view
29:30 - 30:00 images in western but I was using t-max and I had weird issues. What I had to do was to download the kitty term info file used that in westerm and that worked with team right. Yeah. So that's yeah that is one type of issues that you get with regarding the capabilities and I think one thing that's funny as well is like man terminals are like a word like
30:00 - 30:30 it's just like a lot of stuff but one thing that's like people often ask me like when is landing at at HU or Windows and other things is like for HU to have six working at Windows we need to use a specific version of the com PTY and like either I wait to Windows bundle that up and basically that's what I have been doing or either I bundle up like I
30:30 - 31:00 actually get the combi but in EU binary and then run you know a like actually trigger in that binary which is how Westm has been doing and a lot of other projects has been doing as But for me it's so bad they actually need to, you know, like get something from Microsoft like and make it work, compile it to
31:00 - 31:30 something and then like okay now you're running the ARM now you're running the x86 and then do this like just instead of like relying on something that should exist for you know like every system basically. So I don't know like I I I have no I maybe I'm going to actually bundle it up in here to get that issue sorted out but I also patient man so I can wait a bit more.
31:30 - 32:00 How do you feel as a terminal maintainer when a user like me right comes along tries Rio and the first thing they do is install T-Max do you feel that they're not using Rio anymore? It's like, so why are you using Rio? Just use whatever. How do you feel? No, no, I feel great actually. Like I I have no bad opinions about T-Max. Like again, like I was a user before. Okay. I used to use T-Max.
32:00 - 32:30 Like everyone complained about T-Max. I think that's some moment of their career. They use a Demox. You know what I mean? Like all the all the the terminal developers like they use a T-Max before. I don't want to mention names. So it's like so sure like kind of changes your your perspective after you maintain a term now like it's hard to see things differently. But uh but I don't want to be this person that judges like and say like oh this is this is
32:30 - 33:00 poop like in the end of the day people are doing what I was doing before. You know what I mean? Like they're not and frankly bad for them. Like they don't need to maintain a term now. in the end of the day they can just live their life and and like you know just chill. I think that that actually is great for them. Yeah. Let me tell you why I love T-Max. Okay. The only reason Yeah, that is basically everyone has everyone has like
33:00 - 33:30 a different reason. I actually have been asking that like the past week cuz I was just like okay I want to write a multiplexer myself. So what features of Stebox I need to copy and everyone has like they they own stuff like my my boss was like oh I love the way they integrates with SSH and my my other friend was like talking what was the thing I think was about the server they can just have like
33:30 - 34:00 it running different places and then you have like so that's why I think the T-max is a good it's a great piece of software in terms of like it gets the job done and it's hard to see it being replaced. Sorry, a gold like gar or something. Oh, no, no, no. Go ahead. Yeah, it's pretty interesting what you're saying. Everyone has something different. Yeah. And it's like I think like people saying like about the configuration that they like about the leader key, but all these features they
34:00 - 34:30 are reproducible. like uh for example it's just like T-Max has so much love from the terminal community that no one came and said like oh I'm going to rewrite Tim in I don't know like in C or in Rust oh in that selage is it written in rust no it is right but it's like if you think with me it's like yeah sure it's one guy but how many multiplexers have you heard about it like terminals yep Steox and but it's not that popular.
34:30 - 35:00 Yep. Yeah. Exactly. And uh I Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. No, I think it would be fun actually to do the the mood collector. I did I did already working with four four uh panels and with the leader key and I I was able to do some of Tox functionalities in three days but it's like uh but it's so it's so great when you
35:00 - 35:30 think like oh it's such a loved pieces of software that people it's like git like you don't come to it's like yep you know what I mean like you don't come to a developer and say like hey man like do you want to use a different stuff and get and then be like why like it's all working already and works well and I think that this is the thing with the team so it's like to replace it you need to come with a very good a very good approach like of how you're doing in terms of architecture and uh I love for example
35:30 - 36:00 the western does have its own multure for me is like I love it I think that is like it's so interesting that they do that Um, and I think actually terminals some way should be doing that, but it's also like the terminal should be doing that as well. Like I think, you know, like it's also part of the question. Yeah. And uh, so I love it, but I also have like Yeah. You know, like probably
36:00 - 36:30 people will look to you and be they will be like, "Yeah, why did you put like a retro art like future support?" And people be like, "Yeah, man. the does look too much like why did you do that? Yeah. So, every turtle has a different face. Yeah. Nobody is gonna be happy. There's always people that is not going to be happy with whatever path you decide to take. So, you're going to show something with T-Max, man. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The only
36:30 - 37:00 reason why I love T-Max is um where is my terminal? Here. Here. Sessions, right? cuz right for me sessions are projects right so this is my do files right so here's the T-mok's name right so if I want to jump to my notes with the single key map I'm in my notes right so if I want to jump to my blog post I just type another key map it opens that session and I'm there if I want to jump
37:00 - 37:30 to my home session right another key map I'm there right here's where I type my my commands Or if I want to go to my daily note for example another team session. So personally right yeah it feels like a work work uh workspace. Yeah like a workspace right. So each one of these is like um GitHub repo right. So I can
37:30 - 38:00 navigate between my different repos quite fast. Right. So that is I don't care about the the windows, right? I don't care about the the split panes and all that stuff. No, all I care about I I get you like I think like this is the thing that I actually will try to do in the next H uh version. I think like not not the version itself like I actually have been
38:00 - 38:30 trying to do it this I will leave this to the end but I have been trying to do experimental he with more native stuff so like I have I have been working on the swift UI version of here in the parallel that's close it's worth yet but is like uh I have been trying to come up with like art browser and some stuff that they have like this concept of workspace where you can name stuff and stuff like that. Mhm. And like uh it's a
38:30 - 39:00 thing that I really see value like sometimes I'm working on the work, sometimes I'm working on my personal stuff. Yeah. Sometimes I just doing dumb stuff. Yeah. And it's like uh I don't want you don't want to quit the application then CD into the other one open your editor there. It's you know. Exactly. No, I am with you 100%. Like so it's like a thing that I want to explore in the future either in here or either I
39:00 - 39:30 don't know if I'm going to do the multiple but who knows like if I get excited I will do and it's a lot of work man so no I already work on so many stuff in parallel and doing the best like in version rust and like I think like I I sometimes I get bored with him like I think he's like how can you It's like uh in here you kind of work in in some specific type of work like you know you
39:30 - 40:00 fix bugs you add feature you fix the bugs you add feature and sometimes you have the space to be creative and when that happens is great but you can also break things for users so it's like you need to also respect I think with the the the the multiplexer is a different subject because sometimes I have space to be okay I want you to do some crazy stuff like I want you to create like a protocol that I can send like please
40:00 - 40:30 create this TTY please delete the TTY where is the output what is the input and the connect I mean explaining all the architecture but it's like but you see like you can actually explore stuff and u and I think with here sometimes the things are more straightforward forward and people they they are more they're they're more concerned in terms of like oh this is like in the terminal
40:30 - 41:00 in the mat terminal life sure people get excited when they add like cool stuff that they never saw before like for example the retro arch filters were like very exciting and everyone's like wa but I think also they get the same level excitement if I fix a lot of bugs in the row. So, it's like, you know what I mean? It's like it's all like you kind of need to treat your users like in the
41:00 - 41:30 way that they they want to use reliable software. So, sometimes it's great like I I I'm excited and other times I just want to work on crazy stuff. So, it's hard to find the the balance I think. Yeah. And how how is it working with that maintainer? Have you talked to him? What's his name? Um, it's um Nicholas. Nicholas. I don't remember the last
41:30 - 42:00 name. Have you worked with them? No, not really. Like I never did, but I heard that like they're they're they're cool, you know, like never like I don't don't have personal opinions, but like just heard that they're they're good. Okay. Okay. And how is it with Windows is Rio? Can you run it on Windows? Of course. Like uh this is I think that for me is like a must actually like uh cuz when I started
42:00 - 42:30 my career I didn't have much money. So it's like uh Windows was the only machine that I could actually afford. So, and I didn't know Linux like always like it just started my career like I didn't even I did was not like my cowork that like uh he he was already a Linux fan without even have a computer like he was reading Linux magazines before I even have his first computer but I didn't even know Linux at all like
42:30 - 43:00 so for me it's kind of like a kind of a democrat way of software think about everyone like I just don't want to be developing the good stuff for Mac OS and like ignoring the rest or developing good stuff for Linux and ignoring the rest like I want to be I think that this is the part of inclusive as and for me like when I was a teenager or kid like like I
43:00 - 43:30 didn't have any money to just upgrade for the Mac OS and uh it it was like a big deal when I actually change it for Mac OS. So man, I as long he like I will try to give like priority on the Windows. It's it's tough for me because like it's not my main driver right now. So it's like some stuff is hard to for me to keep it up. But this board actually putting some logs and doing the
43:30 - 44:00 native tabs for Windows uh which is a thing that people has been asking for a long time and um and blur is something that's also called me. there like all these things, you know, like and it's great when you actually add these things like you see the love from people like that they cuz they they have been using the way about that feature and then when you do that it's kind of it's nice cuz like you see the
44:00 - 44:30 yeah you know like I I think it's a nice thing like the way that people treat software I guess and how has that experience been how has it you know the open source divorce experience with issues, discussions, is it a lot of work, a lot of burden, have you had bad experiences? How is that side of things? Yeah, I I I I used to do a lot of open
44:30 - 45:00 source. I don't know if the same as real, but I used to work for jQuery like uh you know the JavaScript like work. uh oh my work there was very little and I used to work for jQuery caller and just by that time was a bit overwhelming this we're talking about I don't know 12 years ago or no am I that old I don't know like something like 9 or 10 years ago but
45:00 - 45:30 uh but then after that I used to I start to work on my own stuff like call it react TV which was like a render for televisions and up and it was great like but I think the real real like like the real open source experience that I really had was when I start to contribute for web assembly and then I start to deal with people asking stuff like uh I think my
45:30 - 46:00 first job in the web assembly working group was to extend the the interpreter to to actually allow receive function name it functions to run in the interpreter and it was funny because it was C++ and like it was not like my area of expertise so I was still learning the time and people were like oh I'm going to do I'm going to do and I was just like hey man like I would do so like
46:00 - 46:30 that was I think my real like uh kind of like uh cuz it's like when you start like even if you work your own stuff and people use it's like like I don't know like I had like a lot of I I spent a lot of time working outside of order so it's like I felt more as like you know like something extra but as I was growing up like getting older as well like I
46:30 - 47:00 started to see it more as a lifestyle like uh you know like I think that that's why I like it Brazil at first there was like everyone you know people doing open stuff and like uh I would say like imagine taking money from here like of course people can donate and stuff but it's like uh I don't imagine myself charging people for use it and it's also because like I learned so much with open
47:00 - 47:30 code that you know what I mean like so after the experience in the web assembly I started to work the Game Boy. Then I started working on H. And it was kind of a boom in the beginning because someone posted the link in the hardware news and man was like it went from zero to 3,000 stars like in three or two days and he was not even done like you know what I mean?
47:30 - 48:00 Like it was full of bucks. So I kind of sometimes regret opening that quick cuz like uh it it I mean this also was good for I think it it is like you know like it has the good side and the bad side. The bad side is like man people come bursting or like and then they're like man where is this picture like you guys are supposed to be done and then
48:00 - 48:30 Right. Yeah, exactly. The good side is actually that you get to know a lot of people like I got to know so many wonderful people like through here and even the hashimoto days like from another like terminal man like he basically allow me to connect with them to with him sorry and like connect with charm as well like that works with terminal.
48:30 - 49:00 So it's like in some way it's like it has been like really good to work on it but other ways sometimes I just don't want to do like for example font liatures I didn't really want to do it cuz I wrote the heel for myself and was working with was working for my case you know what I mean like I didn't want to do that part to people and uh and I was just like screw this man was like three months rewriting stuff and like making you capable to like rewriting and fixing
49:00 - 49:30 other people bugs, rewriting and fix other people bugs and then but you know like in the end of the day you look back and you learn so much from the process that actually makes me want to continue. So it it supports liatures now. Yeah, it is. It does like uh and yeah, it was such a you know fun journey to do that like uh cuz is the type of challenges that you don't expect to face in your
49:30 - 50:00 regular job. Yeah. So for me it was like as I was ped sometimes I saw Misha and other people complain about like font in general like want rendering is like such a word such there's a lot of stuff that actually happens under the hood and then and like before be like yeah these people complaining but who cares but now I'm just like man actually it's a lot of
50:00 - 50:30 work. H okay. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. And um let's get to know you a little bit more if that's okay. We already talked about Rio a lot and I think um you did cover all of the questions that I had about it. I would like to to see a demo on the cool stuff that you have for for real. If um you want to share that a little bit later, but um you want to share Yep. Okay. you want to
50:30 - 51:00 share a little bit more about you? So, where you're from? Um, whatever you want to share. Sounds good. I'm from Brazil. Like, uh, like I was born and raised in here, Genev. Um, well, not really raised there. Like, I was born here, but like I grew up in like other cities close by. And um like I started my career because I
51:00 - 51:30 wanted to be uh like work with games. I never work at anything with games. Ter moment of my life I will do but uh but I I wanted to work with games and that never happened. actually start to working I started to program with PHP and C. So it was like u I was doing games for Xbox and you know I was so excited
51:30 - 52:00 about it and like and I honestly didn't know that uh programmers would get any money. I thought I was going to be poor for the rest of my life. And and then like it was funny because like uh it it kind of like it changed like like programming did allow to change my life in terms of like you know came from a poor place and then fly go and travel
52:00 - 52:30 the world like learning a language because back in time I only knew Portuguese. So I start to learn. So now I speak Spanish, English, like Swedish, like uh I speak other languages as well. But I don't want to say that I speak cuz the people in conference too, they come, you know, they come talking to you like in their languages and then you just like uh they basically Yeah, exactly. They actually happened in the my interview with
52:30 - 53:00 Spotify. I told the guy that that like in the whiteboard I told the guy that spoke a bit of Japanese which I do but uh but the guy spoke really fluent Japanese. He lived there for 10 years and then he started speaking Japanese. I was just like oh man I I could like I I I know how to maintain a very basic conversation like take it easy. Yeah. Calm down. Yeah. Exactly. And I for me
53:00 - 53:30 it was like programming was like very important aspect like um and like you know like I used to work for different companies worked a lot in Brazil then start to work for us and then now work in Sweden. They have the experience of work for different like very diff like I think the companies that I work were very different from each other. So allow me to do stuff that were like I used to
53:30 - 54:00 work with back end and front end and designer then you know like then I used to work for data science then you know like you know devops and then I would just go for ambit systems. So it's like I always have been curious to do everything like never wanted to be just that guy that's just front end and uh or just that guy that is back end. I always liking everything and I I think that
54:00 - 54:30 that was a big issue in my career in the beginning because in the beginning I like I'm sure they remember people put names as like you know like this guy is like the web developer and the web developer was like doing everything but then some moment the web developer became front end back end you know like all this splitted stuff. And uh so for me it was like I I always saw myself as
54:30 - 55:00 someone that was very generalistic like I like to do everything but uh but I also fear that people that do everything they're not very good in one specific thing. So it's like uh I I don't know if that's true either because like I did actually the interview for front end and back end and I I passed for both in as a specialist for both companies in different big
55:00 - 55:30 companies. So in the same day in same way like I think this just like like that is my personal opinion. And I think this is is like people being late and they don't want to assume that there's so much to learn in software and then you just want to keep learning until you die and um yeah I think like in terms of a background like uh I did university as many people did you know like came out
55:30 - 56:00 of university and realized that things from university were not that useful in the real world. Yeah. like like people you know like they they wanted other stuff. Um then yeah like I was thought that would be work with games until so far never happened but one day might be. Oh wonderful. Okay. Do you have where can people find you? I guess in GitHub right or Yeah. Yeah. Now I open like a
56:00 - 56:30 YouTube channel. So, let's see. You open. Yeah, I will try to to because I I don't know, man. Like, it's like there's Twitter, Master Dome, and uh and Blue Sky. And I feel that it's kind of like crazy when you posting everywhere and then you deal with people in every place because like, you know, like people want to be in one specific network. I have
56:30 - 57:00 friends from different places. So it's like although I really hate some people like um well from like I don't know like I don't know if I should answer on that topic but I have friends from all the three like networks. So it's like for me it's like man I don't want to stop losing like have you know like lose touch contact with someone. So like I was trying to keep
57:00 - 57:30 out the tree but it's just getting like in the point that is very unhealthy like to follow this tree. So might be that I like I just post on YouTube like casually people want to follow you then they follow they don't want like I don't give a damn like I do software because I like it's not like uh you know it's not like oh I'm doing this because like oh when I have like many stars
57:30 - 58:00 but I think it's about having fun. Do you want to share your YouTube channel? You have it already? Of course, I have it. I will No, I actually going to get my handle in for you cuz I always forget. Okay, it is. I can I can share your screen and you can show it then. All right. All right, then. I I'll get one more then. Go for it. Yeah. You ready? I am
58:00 - 58:30 almost now. I'm ready. Okay. See, there we go. Okay. Yeah, there's the there's my like a channel and uh yeah, here is like the demo with the the Oops, I'm clicking the the P. Now, here is the demo with the the Retro
58:30 - 59:00 Arc like shaders. Is that a Rio? Uhhuh. It is. Like you can actually configure a Rio to have the like Yeah. like to render the way they want, right? So people used to do crazy stuff like so one guy actually he did like the some characters would be blur it in the bottom and you
59:00 - 59:30 know like have this hollow effect. I think there like it's fine. I like to see the terminal get getting this video game vibe. Mhm. Okay. It's interesting, guys. Okay. Yeah, that looks cool. And uh you have videos there and they are related to Rio only or development or Yeah, mostly Rio. Like here was the oops here was like talk about
59:30 - 60:00 the let me take out here was talking about the changes that are coming like to have like uh you know like to improve the render for use like to draw actually some chair characters. So like this is how it was before you know you see the borders here like like it's not really looking good and uh now it's like should be looking like that. Actually, this looks much better in the latest version and this also but like I try to talk a
60:00 - 60:30 bit like in the like in terms of like things they're doing they're coming to here and like uh performance is going to be like twice as faster now like for the next version as well. So a lot of like small things that like I try to just do a drop there. Mhm. Oh yeah, like uh like the Game Boy that I also did for terminal. Mhm.
60:30 - 61:00 What is that to play uh Game Boy games in Rio? Yeah, you can play terminal any terminal that has image protocol. M so it was like uh I wrote in ROS it's like uh is actually in my GitHub like it's just like the I can show GitHub game boy. So it's like here it's like the
61:00 - 61:30 whole emulator like that runs in the web and then runs in the like as desktop or terminal. um as a blog project. Okay. Interesting. So, I'm going to leave a link to your YouTube channel and to your GitHub in the video description. I leave those at the top so people can find you. Don't expect for a lot of people to watch the video, you know, cuz
61:30 - 62:00 not a lot of people watch my videos, but at least 100 views. Sounds good. That is more than perfect. Yep. And um do you want to show something about Rio? Like any features that you want to show about it now that we're looking at your screen? Sounds good. I think let me think what I was working actually before I show real can I show one thing before? Yep. Yep. Yeah. Sure. cuz I have been
62:00 - 62:30 working on this project call it beast which oops which is like a which is basically a shell parser format and interpreter and I wrote down here I just want to learn but actually it's more than that I realized that there was like few projects to parse shell and interpret shell in rust so I was just like man I
62:30 - 63:00 want to do this like I want to you know like do this so other people can use. So technically like uh either you would have your parser like you would like use the parser to test something like cargo my my keyboard actually I changed it let me see if I can configure okay I will try this way should be okay so it's like should work now it's working as a shell you see like it's basically it's a
63:00 - 63:30 batch like rewriting batch to Rust Mhm. And u and there's so much actually to do but it's like uh for example if you want to set environment variable like that variable uh 1 2 3 then like this is set already in the environment like I could like and like should be there and I think that this is like a the long project
63:30 - 64:00 like one thing that you're looking forward to see is like people actually from different like perspective and like uh like different projects to use because like like for example there is many projects that are written in Rust and they have to like parse bash or shell in a very weird way and I hope that these projects actually can help that like so people can you know test or like write
64:00 - 64:30 bad better tooling like better code with like a proper parser. So instead of using uh well instead of creating a bash script that that's going to use bash your script would use this tool that you're creating right or almost there. I'm going to I'm going to show I'm going to show you and okay so the thing is like when you
64:30 - 65:00 forget what you saw now here with the oops with the cuz this is basically the interpreter like running the interpreter so it is not connected to the parts but one thing that looking forward with the pars is basically like for example let's say that you write um let's say cat uh uh I don't know like and then read me empty like how do you actually parse
65:00 - 65:30 that in rust like it there is no parse to batch at least I could not find any parser to batch so I don't know if cat is like a keyword this is a string like it sure so it's a string but then if all this is like strings what what happens if I do this you know what I mean like so the there there is no tooling should instinct the tokens of that like that content in RA. And so I have been
65:30 - 66:00 working on this like for like people actually use for you know like to write good tests or or they want to use batch for something or shell for something. So they'll be able to for example get this content here and and then know like oh it's like two two strings with like a one like operator and then other string and then do whatever they want with the information. So it's like uh for example
66:00 - 66:30 if you have like a if you're a maintainer like a package manager and you have like package build package like you probably would like to write test for that. So you will need that power as well. So like I think that this is something that are looking forward to contributing for the rust scenario. Uh and I saw actually some some projects that are real right of back in Rust
66:30 - 67:00 which are very exciting but I could not find like a proper parser that I could use like in my you know what I mean like like I just wanted to use like a parser of bash and I saw some projects that I could use partially but every project had like something that was lacking it like I wanted didn't have the x club so I could not do like this you know like uh I could not do like this so everything was lacking something
67:00 - 67:30 um but yeah it's like it's a big project I think should be I hope we open this project soon like some people reached me out and they wanted to use but I'm looking forward to to see so this is going to be used by people that develop in Rust mainly correct yeah exactly or if they want to use the the cuz there's two projects on that one right they can either use that or they can use the
67:30 - 68:00 shell rewrite so they can use the bash like basically in rust but yeah it's a it's a big a big project I would say okay looking forward and I after I have the multiplexer done if I do I'll ask you to give a try and see what you think Yeah, I want to try the the sessions. Let me know when the sessions are are ready. I will give it a try for sure. No, exactly. I need to
68:00 - 68:30 port most of the features of Tox otherwise people are not going to use Oh, yeah. You know, that's going to be tough cuz cuz Tox has a lot of different features. So much stuff. Yeah. So much stuff. All right. Hey, man. Like I think like the things that have been working on here has been like actually box characters. So it's like I want to make the ho render looks better and has been like complaints over the time over the I don't know year that
68:30 - 69:00 like a unic code icons they should be looking better and like the box drawing characters should be looking better. So I have been working in many PRs actually can show like so like you have you guys have a better idea can I just pop here so it's like this is the the current PR that I'm working now and then you see I need to do every every character here
69:00 - 69:30 it's like so it all right they should look better right Mhm. Yeah, there's like uh so like it does not feel weird when arm either like many terminals what they do is like they they resize or they fit they scale the character to the cell dimension and he actually will do that as well but he cannot beat draw the
69:30 - 70:00 character by yourself. It just feels better. You know what I mean? Like Kitty does that. So so good and ghost as well. Both term knows actually they draw a lot of characters and then like they they know like for example I like it. a lot of box characters and but it's like if they get this and they're like okay like it's a double cross like then I'm going to draw myself instead of you know get from the text or you know for you know
70:00 - 70:30 the font atlas or something and it just feels better because like it it is kind of the drawing is based on the font data that you have. So for example, if you're using a specific type of font, it's going to try to match with the stroke of that font. So it feels much like I can say it feels that the the icon was made that font or was like which is funny
70:30 - 71:00 because many people create issues in here like oh why why this is not working? why that is not working or maybe then I don't know how to explain to them that some fonts they're not being coming from anywhere they're being drawn and it's just like uh they people don't really understand that there is a magic happen in the background it's like the the terminal is actually making that look better for you so it's like man it's a lot of stuff there's a lot I can
71:00 - 71:30 click here it's a lot of stuff to do like uh but I now I did the most part I think it's just a matter of like fixing your text but for example if I go for the double cross and I run here and then you see like there still ongoing stuff like uh get this here like it
71:30 - 72:00 should be like it looks like you know that fits this won't, you know what I mean? So, it's like it does not overflow. It fits the dimension of the cell and it looks, you know, like tailor made for a good terminal. So, yeah, it's something that I've been working a lot in the past weeks like uh hope that I'll get this done like the beginning of the next month. And meanwhile, you know, fixing other stuff
72:00 - 72:30 like I was picking fixing like the flickering like was flickering for some applications with here in the TUI and then I fixed that yesterday. So it's like is you know there's the lack of the container like this small stuff that comes up and then you need to like do the proper fixes [Music] and the the filters as well that you were mentioning are those similar to the filters that go I can show to you I can
72:30 - 73:00 show to them like uh so the filters in here they're based on retro arc like and that means there is like this actually I can actually can show get the so basically this guy Mhm. the that's about everything. So basically I don't know if you guys ever use it like a repar for emulation but it's like uh they have a
73:00 - 73:30 lot of like filters for play old games and stuff. Mhm. And to arc filters. So you have like this shader process, but there's a place in the GitHub. Yes, this link shaders where you can, you know, like do a lot of magic and I can I can show to some some to you guys already. Yep. But you see like kind
73:30 - 74:00 of like it's funny because it can actually it does change how you see stuff. Yep. And uh there's two actually filters that are built in here otherwise you need to show the like to otherwise like this is the building for example but otherwise you would need to map like you need to like pass the
74:00 - 74:30 path of this leng file and then it would do something for you. I'll not scroll down so there's no spoiler but you guys already saw in the in the video and like so let me get all right let me get so the All right so we'll just go for render just and I think one important thing to mention is like he has like a a
74:30 - 75:00 render mode that like a video game so it renders forever. Mhm. And but don't you don't necessarily need to have that like you can just like uh you can you can use with events. That's basically how work like they you know type something they render something. That's kind of how you do like render necessity. Uh but uh all right.
75:00 - 75:30 So filters and then All right. Oops. So I do this and then boom. All right. I didn't know like that the CR effect. Exactly. Then you can do like go here. I I forgot I had actually one good example. I don't remember now but it you
75:30 - 76:00 know like it feels like it feel like I like ideally like give power to people to make the how they want to feel. So there's many people out there writing their own filters to him. Mhm. And like uh one guy actually in the discord has been quite active like write you like on on that matter like he even has be writing like a blog post on how to write your own like shader like effect.
76:00 - 76:30 So let's see how it go. Yeah. I remember I don't know was it you the one that shared in Twitter like u some effects that it looked like fire and I don't know when you were typing stuff. Yeah the there was this guy I think he did for his editor Zach uh and I thought
76:30 - 77:00 I was going to do that for him as well. Mhm. which I which I want to do actually. But I think first I will start with the the cursor of the animated the Neopai thingy, right? Yeah, it's amazing. I should have it here and like I cannot wait to finish porting that to you so I can use that in my daily life. Uhhuh. Yeah, cuz it it's helpful. It helps you see where you're at, right? Uh, at least to me it helps me see. He's
77:00 - 77:30 a he's a he's a cosmetic, man. Let's not lie here. Like it just makes everything feels better. That's for the way. Yeah, it's not lie. It's just cosmetic. You're right. No, but my boss and I like we man we're such a big fan of that like and and actually had a project from one guy that he was able to do that working for any any vin. So it works for you know Apple
77:30 - 78:00 uh terminal and everything. So like it basically did a V plugin that works for every terminal. M it looks like the animated cursor. M I see. Oh, it's great. Yeah, Neovite is the one that started with all that. I remember when I saw the cursor and Neovite, it was like what is this thing? And it looked Yeah. liked it. So now, man, but the thing like I
78:00 - 78:30 want to do more versions of the cursor. I just don't want to spoil it spoil do the spoiler yet. But I think like we have like the version from Neoire that is great but we have like I have other ideas that are based that don't VS code cursor there's one cursor from VS Code that looks like chunks a bit like glum and then open and I I will try to copy that to EU as well. I think it would be fun. Yeah. And you know, if you come up
78:30 - 79:00 with something um creative, it's going to call attention. People's going to be like, "What is that? How did he do that? What is that terminal?" They're going to install it. They're going to port that to both. But then like But you were first. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I if I actually I have a feeling here that's like as long my friends all good. But it's like it's like if if the people
79:00 - 79:30 that I work with use then I good. So it's like I'm happy that it's like how people use like how my co-workers use. Mhm. I still need to convince the rest actually one one coworker of mine he he really wants to use. But uh there's one issue in here that I need to fix for him to join which I hopefully fix will fix like in this version. But I think that
79:30 - 80:00 you know there's my main drive like get people that I know using it because it's kind of gets like it gets nice like when you talk with people and then they're like hey man like your your your project does not work. And I think that that is cool. Okay. Yeah. That's That's interesting. And what is the Game Boy thing that you mentioned that you're working on? So, what is that? Do you want to show it? Like, do you run it on You said that you
80:00 - 80:30 run it on Rio, right? Oh, yeah. But I don't actually have it in this computer. Oh, you don't have it here. Okay. Yeah, I have my I have here this Linux machine. Oh, okay. in the other it's like yeah my arc actually and I have I think in my personal Mac okay I I don't remember the last time that I opened my personal Mac oh okay but the instructions are in your in the
80:30 - 81:00 GitHub repo right yeah exactly so but you can actually run uh if I'm not mistaken you can do cargo and actually show let me get like I think it's basically Yes, let me get this to here. So, basically, you can just run cargo install game boy like and and then you run game boy with the back of the file. Then you want to
81:00 - 81:30 run the game and should work. But I don't have any like any legal rule here because I think that they think like in Malaysia it's legal but if you use like games from Nintendo like it's like then becomes illegal cuz basically you know Mhm. So I used to download everything from [Music] u from this site each hio they allow to like so they made a lot of games and
81:30 - 82:00 they post the room there but they're legal right? Yeah, they're illegal. And then you can just like download, for example, open here. Actually, this one was like, man, people are so excited about this one. Mhm. It's like and you can just download the demo. uh or unless you own the you own the game and then you put the data of the
82:00 - 82:30 game that you have to uh you know a room file which I did one time but it's like too much work man like it's just like just it's just you know like just download from the legal one you're going to be okay okay okay so the cursor animation is coming soon. Now, you mentioned that you work at Charm. I have se seen the Charm name in a lot of different places, videos,
82:30 - 83:00 but I don't know what it is. Like, you want to talk about it or maybe show it like of course, of course. I I actually Okay, let's let's do it. Okay, let me let me just get Yeah, get ready and you let me know and I will switch to your screen when you're when you're ready. All right, so cuz I was working on this branch and then now all right so
83:00 - 83:30 let's go. Okay, here we go. So charm basically I can actually open the the company my website and do you want to remove the real filter so we can see so we can see but I can I can for now so like some of my texts are cool to see with this but I can remove later. Okay. Okay. That's okay. Yep. So like charm is like man we do a lot of stuff for terminals
83:30 - 84:00 as like it's very likely that you use it some like terminal UI app that has been using something that char made and it's like um I was actually surprised because like I realized this super fire you know the terminal program super fire I don't think I have heard it No. Yeah, it's this. I think it's this guy. Super Oops. Super.
84:00 - 84:30 It's like it's to Oops. It's to show your basically it's like a Yasi type of thing like a file. Yeah. You know, in the terminal yet another file explorer like you know like uh Yasi Ranger everything. And uh first like I was surprised that was made with charm stuff m and uh you know they have so much
84:30 - 85:00 stuff like h is heavily used it like it's used by github like this thing for send emails through terminal and like bubble t like is huge like in the go ecosystem it's like you know like it's like a terminal UI framework and And like you you can create like like you know applications using like bubble tea. Mhm. and uh like wish like to
85:00 - 85:30 create like SSH apps live. What do you mean SSH apps with wish? Let's say that you go for like I think there's a good example here for example you go you do like there's actually someone added here when you I'm surprised actually people added this the thing is like when you go let's say they want to go and buy coffee
85:30 - 86:00 like you go for the website right like y I don't know like buy coffee.com so one thing they could do is just like SSH that domain and then you could just integrate, you know, like use that to, you know, buy coffee. You could just like Prime and TJ's and all of those guys coffee thingy, right? Yeah. it, if I'm not mistaken, it uses
86:00 - 86:30 like wish actually like terminal terminal. Yeah, if I'm not if I'm not mistaken, I'm almost sure that they use like wish uh cuz I remember we actually demo something from them, I guess. I don't remember now, but it's basically the idea. You can go there and then you like buy the the thing through there, which I think is awesome. like you know bring the terminal back to the game and uh lip
86:30 - 87:00 loss is basically to create like layout without depend on bubble tea there's so much projects actually glamour like for render markdown is that like a markdown editor that glamour okay exactly so it's like let me so he's like yeah This is basically
87:00 - 87:30 like but here you have in in go like uh but like if you want the render itself like you have to glow which is basically the app itself. Mhm. Okay. So this is assuming you don't use neop right. So the the reason why mine looks like this right now is because um I'm inside Neoim and that's where all
87:30 - 88:00 the styles are applied and all that stuff. So this other one that you're showing right now is if you're will be with Yeah. if you're not using without it, right? Oh. So you just open the file with this glow thing and it looks like that. Yeah, but man, so much so many projects actually. I think there's like it's hard to to summarize. I think the mod is one
88:00 - 88:30 that is getting really fallen out. There's like cuz like you can connect with the AI in the terminal. It's like, you know, so gun I think that this is by far my favorite of charm. Mhm. And if Sean allow me to rewrite this to Rust, I would do in the blink of eye. But it's like cuz I love gun. I think there's like and I don't know I'm not sure if actually needs to be rereaden in Russ because I am working on rewrite to like
88:30 - 89:00 likes to rewrite everything to rough I guess but it's like uh and what is that come for like all right so go tag along with me. So this is a good example. So you do that. Oh wait, let me yeah okay there's a lot of things happening now so it gets a bit confused but for example let's do the tutorial. So you
89:00 - 89:30 write like done choose. So you give the options write fix style and then you put like a a placeholder and you do like a you know like you can also do in the different way and you can do like a conform and then it you know like it does that automatically for you like it kind of like and it will return for you with the shell script. Mhm. the value. So it's
89:30 - 90:00 like it's useful for shell script and if it's useful for shell script you can actually pipe that information right. So it's like you can do like a gun to do something and then you add a pipe and then you return the information to the other combat. So it's like people doing like a combo of gun so many times like gun this gun that pipe gun this gun that pipe. I think that that's actually my favorite feature to be honest and like and then like you
90:00 - 90:30 know input and move to answer and then it has so much subs that it kind of feels like a better shell. You know what I mean? It's like it is not really a better shell. Does not does not has a shell power, but it kind of gives you like a um aility to use as like a shell assistant or something.
90:30 - 91:00 But but I also buy it. I work there but I was fan of char before being. So take that in consideration. Okay. So this is if you this is if you run a lot of bash scripts, right? It makes them look nice cuz I see that it looks nice. It has like a code block type of thingy there at the bottom. Yeah, exactly. And then Yeah, there's like other things that people do as
91:00 - 91:30 well. There's like let me see like file pager like spin. There's tape as well. I don't know where's the print like in the case they style right like yeah but yeah it makes looks like sh looks better I guess. Um yeah cuz for example I
91:30 - 92:00 run bash scripts a lot right if I want to create a new VM or let's say that I want to create four VMs in my in my home lab right I have bash scripts but it looks it doesn't look as as nice so I guess I could use that gum thingy that you show right now to I don't know but do I have to do I have to rewrite my bash scripts or no you actually like you keep your bash script the way that you
92:00 - 92:30 want but the part that you actually need the data you you integrate with gun. So it's like for example if you for example wait for a red line in the back in the shell instead of you wait for the red line you can call gun input and then like then magically that would happen for you like magically it's like that would happen for you. So it's like you would need to integrate by small pieces. Um, I have to
92:30 - 93:00 take a look. And are these tools free? Like how does Charm sustain itself? Is it open source? How does all of that work? Man, that's I I think it's funny because everyone actually asked with that question. Like Sharp nowadays like is a company that like up for investment as well. So like he's is like invested by big companies and you know like what like not the I
93:00 - 93:30 confess they're not the most business. So it's like I could be actually talking about like like venture capital. I don't know what this terms mean. I I'm just a humble programmer but uh but it's like we we actually get like investments and like sharp has like always has done open source so it's like uh in the way the companies rely on char as well. to like
93:30 - 94:00 for example GitHub use a lot of stuff from char uh so frankly I I don't think I'm the person like to give the best answer but I know that things work like that like out of the out of the hood and everything is open source and as a user do I have to pay for any of the tools no you don't need to just use and do the that you
94:00 - 94:30 want with it. Interesting. I didn't know. I did watch some videos and it looks quite nice, really polished and I was like, "But what is this company?" Yeah. Doing then like I I kind of get it now. So everyone everyone gives the same question and even I before I joined Charman I had I don't know if I had the the same question because like before I joined Charm I thought like well if is a
94:30 - 95:00 company that is used by so many people thousands and thousands I feel like yeah in some way is going to be someone's going to be paying for that like like to keep that company alive and that's what I thought before join but it's like uh boy confess that you know like I don't think I the money for it to be honest I otherwise I probably would have charged it for he okay and um thanks for sharing about
95:00 - 95:30 charm you know I didn't I didn't didn't know much about it but now I get a now I know better idea yeah now I know and um you have um this blog post let's see what is this about you want share. You want to show that? Of course. I don't want to show the editor yet, but I can I can talk about it. All right. Let me let me share this screen. Yep. And so in November, I I started to draft
95:30 - 96:00 why I'm working on the new like to write a post about why I'm working with the new code editor. And like I mean I can summarize like I feel that most of the code actors they feel the same they look the same and it's just like in the end of the day you probably just going to end up like returning to VS Code V thing or Emacs whatever you feel comfortable
96:00 - 96:30 right so I think for me like I started to think like man I would like to have what as but in the way there was like for everyone like a designer could just sit and use a V without having to have a learning curve you know what I mean like anyone that's not from tech just use being without need to learn actually how that is what works y so I started to think a
96:30 - 97:00 lot about it and I was playing video games and I was just like yeah I think like Actually video games they are kind of self-explanatory. You don't need to teach much like it just happens like at some moment you start to get the game play. You don't take like I used to have I used to use nail being for a long time like I don't use as I used to use now like I before I
97:00 - 97:30 think that was like I used to use those tools a lot. Mhm. M to the point where I was actually giving trouble to my teammate where they had to type on my computer, you know what I mean? Cuz they didn't know like V. So they were like, man, what the hell? Like I don't know what what I'm doing here. And it made me thought like, man, I don't know. Like in the end of the day, I think like the keyboard editor should be simple. It
97:30 - 98:00 should be something that is like like fast for you and fast for other person. And I start to work on bu and bu is like does work as a gu and does work as like a terminal editor as well. So it can use whatever you want like can use in the terminal or you can use as a desktop app. And my idea was like to reinvent mouse ed mouse free editors. So like you
98:00 - 98:30 can actually, you know, like do stuff without feel like you're playing guitar cuz I play guitar and I feel that every time that I type in on pin, I feel like I'm playing a note. You know what I mean? And uh and then that that mentality actually drove me to write boo. Um, I think my goal now is like getting the point where I share it like where I actually comfortable to share
98:30 - 99:00 with other people cuz like I see like in my daily basis like it's really good for Rust code but it's not really optimized for other like language yet. So I don't know like I try other editors I always feel that they are bloated like you know like there's so much things happening and in the end of the day you don't really want to be there like the editor has like a terminal built in it has like a a git div there there is so
99:00 - 99:30 much stuff happening there and then the end of the day it's just like man what are you doing here like it's not really about editing code it's like it's about everything else like I feel like there these are things that I like about teammax like they you say it like I think connects with book when you are in the workspace you don't know which workspace you are you're just there it does not feel bloated you know what I mean like of course you can put like a a message there hey you're in the number
99:30 - 100:00 three like in the top of the in the top of t-max you can configure stuff but you don't feel like oh they are taking your space you know what I mean and and this is the thing I I noticed you know code editors like the more stuff you add more of folders you open it just feel like it looks like completely different from what was supposed to be so I feel the most they were not designed to be you
100:00 - 100:30 know like that big scope it I feel like being in some way does that well because like you're you you change your mentality to from editing a folder to edit the file, but it's like you're still stuck to the to the guitar instrument. So, it's like, oh, I want to I I want to go to the post. How a person that does not knows how to use a be would do that. They need to Google about it and learn. Oh, I want
100:30 - 101:00 to move to the side. They will need to do this and learn. So I have been working on on pool like mostly to try to make mouse pre- editors for everyone like like you know like a person that does not knows anything of tech should be able to use it as well. Okay. So yeah it it is it going to use Vim motions or viotions or something different? Man,
101:00 - 101:30 people actually have been asking a lot about it and people got excited. This is the logo, by the way. I share, you know, all that. And uh what is that the logo? It's like uh the logo from the the editor who open is like what are what is Mitchell going to think with the ghosty logo? I don't know, man. is is is is a subject that like uh but the
101:30 - 102:00 thing is like he he sort of inspired me as well like with the ghost because the way that he did you know like but in the the death vlogs and stuff like that it kind of affected me like in the way that was just like okay I want to do something similar I just didn't know that was going to be this similar but in the same way like uh in the same way it's just like let's just think There's a ghost from Rust version like ghost has the has
102:00 - 102:30 the zig version but it's going to have now a rust version as well. Uhhuh. But it's like how can I say I feel this like there's so much room for improvements in term of experience of editors if you know what I mean like it's just like uh for example you said about anything now with the Redmi but that thing does not work out of the box with the Redmi like with
102:30 - 103:00 the markdown files you actually need to configure that right so you need to add like a plugin or something that makes it looks better. And I think that this is like a big mistake of nailing in general. Like people don't really care. They don't really want to spend, you know, like polishing like too much stuff. And most of the people that polish stuff, they use similar stuff. So it's like oh I have the space uh I have
103:00 - 103:30 this plugin that show markdown better or I have this other button that show marks down better. Sure. But like one could come as default when you could just change as long you wanted. You know what I mean? And I think that is like in my opinion one of one of the problems with B in general but it's like cuz sometimes people just want to code they just don't want to spend like
103:30 - 104:00 you know like weekends like customizing months configuring exactly yeah his years actually doing this. So is it and is this more like something already just ready for you to code, right? You don't need to customize anything. It'll just work out of the box and you will not have many options to configure as a user, right? It's just Yeah. One thing that Ghostly does well
104:00 - 104:30 and I agree as well is like the less configurations the better. like they have this philosophy and I don't know if for Hu I want to follow that philosophy let's leave that for them like they're doing that like why he needs to cop in the terminal perspective but for the editor I can try to cop that philosophy and try to actually make the way where people can just you know tune
104:30 - 105:00 in and just code but I also I think there's one thing that like everything should be removable cuz I also think that there's a mistake from you know editors that make everything like defo cuz it's like sometimes like people don't want that crap and it's just like need everything should be like as as long that they are there they should be removable and if they're removable like
105:00 - 105:30 they should not affect the person performance cuz it's Like is the same with like some editors that they have AI or you know code like a static analysis like sometimes you disable that but it's like they still feel that is slow because they're running like something that you know like like they have like a thread that is I do doing nothing and uh I think that this is the thing for me I want to do in a way where like if people
105:30 - 106:00 want to have literally anything they can go with it. Like they can go with like something that looks like a bean, very dumb, like very simple and just works cuz like sometimes just playing beans is also good. It's like you know has been being good for many people for many years but uh I think like the editor that I want to do is like it starts for you in the way that you don't need to Google of how things work is there. It's
106:00 - 106:30 just there and you don't need to install anything. It's just there. Mhm. And it's just like you you can actually focus on get your work done like without actually the kill I need to press I need to change this key bind because like this other thing will happen like I use it being in now being the im for many years and man I spent a lot of lot of time like making it you know not I don't know if looking nice was my goal but I wanted
106:30 - 107:00 to be more you know productive and and the thing is like it's like it's a no ending cycle like you just keep finding new stuff and they develop this mentality that where you actually start to think about plugins all the time and you know seek for plugins and I think that this is like man I don't know if that's what I want to be you know what I mean like yeah makes sense makes sense but I also love it like I think like I
107:00 - 107:30 don't want to be the guy that criticizes that but you did Because now I did and I will keep doing but it's like by the same way I want to be the person that says like what are the Brazilian guys what are the Brazilian guys going to say Brazil mention you're destroying but replace replace with another one right so keep the Brazil stack and wait what's going to happen with boo when all
107:30 - 108:00 of the neoim users come in and tell you hey I don't have this that I had in neoim implement mented and then you're going to end up with neoim again but in boo. Yeah, this actually has been a concern and I think there's like I I wrote that in the last blog post there. It's just like many people they have been asking like oh I want DMX or being bindings and yeah so it's like BU does not do any of these bindings actually it used its
108:00 - 108:30 own bindings but the reason for that is like man I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing those tools because I actually big fan of B like I used for many years and I do see the value actually in the tooling And frankly, just to think that that software was written like uh many years ago is is mindblowing cuz like to have that perspective like you know like it's just
108:30 - 109:00 like is insane like V works well for many many decades. So it's like uh I have a really huge respect for V. I don't like to be that guy that you know like just criticize open source and I I actually think that people that that want to keep using V keep using V like boo is not for you like there is there is no you know you're not the profile tell them boo go away. Yeah, exactly. Go
109:00 - 109:30 away. And but it's not the profile that I want to bring to Brew. Not because like they they would not fit. It's like they spent I I told this to Carl who's a guy that worked with me and she's like, "Man, you spent so many years of your life learning something. There is no sense in migrating. Like you're very productive on that. Why you going to become less productive in order to you know what I mean? Like so I guess actually this mentality of like oh
109:30 - 110:00 migrate from B to BU migrate from Emac to BU. I think BU is not for this those people. Okay. I think BU is is for the new generation. It's like people that don't really want to spend time like learning keybind or learning you know lua or learning you know other stuff and and they're like okay I want to use something simpler like and I think boo is for those people. Yeah, because you
110:00 - 110:30 bring up a really good point. You know, it's never ending with Neoim. I use Neoim. I love Neoim, but I do get your point. Not everyone is willing to put the hours that I have to put that I have put in my configuration. It has been months, right? In Yeah, years. I I bet years and the thing with Linux, right? Like it's like I love Linux and I think like many it actually came
110:30 - 111:00 like give people so much freedom, you know what I mean? Like and but in the same way some people they don't want to spend time doing anything like they just want something that you know updates itself that you know that is mainstream and then does something. So I think there's like uh B is to target that part of the people that would love to have a terminal editor but does not wants to you know and I think that Elix you know
111:00 - 111:30 Elix the other editor they they kind of go in that line like they do a lot of things inside and I think that Buu goes a lot similar to them yeah but the difference is like I still feel that elix you still need to sit in Google stuff. So I think that that is the thing that I want to do. I want boot to be intuitive. I want you to like you
111:30 - 112:00 write down as you would write in the you know in the browser and if you something is wrong I want the editor to correct you like hey you're trying to do this then no this doesn't work here like you should do this and this this whole thing is actually built in in boot so it's like you're trying to save a file like this actually happens in boot you're trying to save a file with command s and in the terminal it notifies you it's not like works here you don't need Google I'm going to tell you how it works and
112:00 - 112:30 then so it's like everything is like part of a game I would say it's like is is very connected itself so it it's like uh is I have been trying to make boo for people that don't code so it's like I'm using them as my you know guinea pigs so it's like I have been giving to them and see like hey man how would you say fighter and I think boo for that and not
112:30 - 113:00 for the super programmer that you know like that has the multiple cursors and also for people that just get tired of neoimm configuring stuff emacs and all that stuff and they're like I just want something out of the box that works. I have a question for you there. You mentioned that it's optimized right now for Rust, right? Cuz that's what you use mostly, Rust. Exactly. And what's going to happen when you need to when you have a users because not everyone's going to
113:00 - 113:30 code in Rust, right? There's going to be a lot of go and a lot of other program. How are you going to work? How isn't that going to be a lot of work? Is it going to have like a plug-in system or you're going to build everything yourself? Yeah, excellent question. I think like now so buzzer like u so it's like uh should work for like the syntax I like works for every language so far most of the languages not every language but it's
113:30 - 114:00 like uh but my goal is actually have like most of the language are protocols built in so it's like you download what you need and you run with the things that you need but uh but you don't need to go someplace to get you know like don't need to go there and say like oh I want to go like a plugin to run this like no it's already there is an option there so
114:00 - 114:30 I think there's like that's my other challenge with pool there's like I think that the language adoption will need to be one by one and it's just like it's going to take time like cuz there's the thing like you need to put quality on what you do you need to see it test repeat and then you say like oh people that use rust they would like this feature and then you extend the rust like things in b and that would be the same for go like people like I need to
114:30 - 115:00 like kind of like give in is called it actually run time so it's like uh it's basically what you would call in in like the plugins and all these type of things it's I call it runtime in pool and it's like uh it has like the part anyone can go there and modify by themselves. So it's like the community could go there and just say like yeah I want now I want the runtime to auto like to do like auto
115:00 - 115:30 format of the code like by default and then they would go and change the code there. Uh I mean is a long it's a long project like I have I work with it like I have been working with it for half a year. I I think like not even in the end of 2026 is going to be done but it's like I like to imagine that it's going to have a closed beta ready in the end
115:30 - 116:00 of this year for some people. It sounds like a lot of work and it does sound. Yeah. Don't you have enough with Rio? No, never enough, man. The house. You love issues in GitHub. Oh, yeah. Apparently, I do. I need help. Okay, good. Thanks for sharing about your editor in progress. We're going to see how that continues. I'm going to
116:00 - 116:30 subscribe to your channel. I didn't even know that you had a channel because you don't post it on on YouTube on Twitter, right? Yeah, I would try to be more often that like it's true like I have been it's very it's very new like I I I posted few times and now I try to have some consistence. Okay. Yeah, I will subscribe so I will be able to see the updates there and I'll we'll see how how everything turns out by the end of 2026. And um we already talked about
116:30 - 117:00 this bash and rust. You showed that already. Um let's talk about this is really important IDE. So you were using Neo Vim. What are you using now? So you went back to Notepad. You went to the basics or what are you using now? But believe it or not, like I was using blue for rust and uh and I I used Sublime Text for a long time cuz I I got
117:00 - 117:30 to use it with the front end tooling. Like I think that they had good front end stuff back in 2013, 2015. And frankly, I still think that they have one of the best cursors, multiple cursors off the market. Like they think that they do a lot of stuff very well. supply. Uh yeah, supply. Oh, and uh I I had a call with um one of the Helix. He's he's a contributor. Helix
117:30 - 118:00 contributor. I still have to edit the video and upload it. But I did really love the work that they do with multiple cursors. It's It's amazing. It's amazing. I think that I think there's a thing that I'm trying to copy in Boo, but since Buu has like a No, but then I spoil it. The thing is like I also had to reinvent the mouse the multiple mouse because the thing is like since you cannot use mouse input it's like it's
118:00 - 118:30 not allow it like we don't even have the functionality. Oh like does not work. So it's like I had to write a lot but then users are going to come in. You know how it is. You know how it is. I don't know if they they complain. No but this is different. pool is not built for like it's not built for mainstream. is is like real everyone can use and you know like uh Baboo is like you like mouse
118:30 - 119:00 pre-editors you don't want mouse if you like mouse don't even come here no exactly I I think that this should be part of the premise like I I don't think I will be ever adding that to B cuz if I add that okay one thing that I noticed like right now is Okay. But it's like if if you add any type of functionality partially, it's like, oh, you're going
119:00 - 119:30 to have mouse support, then you're going to do the things how as baked it. It's like you're not going to think like, oh, this person like uh this person does not has mouse. What would happen? No, you start to consider that people has mouse and then you do like a editor that like consider that people has mouse and like they should just click on that and I think that is a thing that I like about being Emacs because they they drew for
119:30 - 120:00 many years like so they actually developed quite well due to the restrictions you know what I mean like they had many restrictions back in time and they're still thankful for those restrict kids and I think Bull should also understand this like hey man there's no mouse like you need to make a mouse experience by the terminal and you should make that looks good and how you do that I think that there is like one I
120:00 - 120:30 have actually did so many prototypes one was called it lingot which was like you held the key for a while and then would like scroll up and scroll down depending of the time of the press but didn't work out like in the end of the day was very weird and like so it's like you know I've been exploring different ideas of how to do an editor that actually makes you feel that you're forced to type like
120:30 - 121:00 you need to type there is no other way and um but yeah man it's like is very I think that this is fun you know like this is the topic I think that this this thing that I feel is different than he like one thing that I glad about is that closed source. So it's like kind of my laboratory. No one has access. I do crazy stuff and if I don't like it just throw in the trash. Yeah. But here if I do something and someone likes they do a fork and they
121:00 - 121:30 copy and move to here like today. One time I did something and then I didn't like and I remove it out from here. But I think was a Russian guy. He he worked at the project and he was like, "Oh, but I really like this feature. Then you remove it." And then he started to use, you know, the fork from the Yeah. from the fork. And then people started to be like, "Oh, I like this fork. Like I want to use this." And it's very different,
121:30 - 122:00 you know, like And what happened? Did you add the feature back? No, I talked with the dude and I added in another way like so I had to actually change the architecture of to fit that and uh and so end up having extra work. So feature that I didn't even want. But so you have to be really careful with which features you introduce once it's exactly in beta or out there cuz Yeah. No, but it's the
122:00 - 122:30 thing with B now that like it's just like it's just me. Yeah. That's just like I break stuff. I like stuff I don't like. I you know I do I do like weird stuff sometimes. I do very weird stuff and then in the end of the day I happy with it. You know what I mean? like okay like I I live my life and then like if I do that in here today people like I start to do the plugins in here in web
122:30 - 123:00 assembly and then people are like well why not Lua why not this guy why not that and I just like guys just let me explore I need the time to think about things like you know what I mean like cuz if you don't even try the solution how you would know if that likeation So it's like uh I think that there's a thing with people are like oh give me access give me access and I was just like no man like I don't I don't want
123:00 - 123:30 people opinion so far I don't want people saying like oh this is good this is bad cuz if they start to say this then my mind will be like oh so this was good I'll start to follow that you know what I mean I don't know if that makes sense maybe it's just me yeah know it makes sense you want to make it perfect for to see how people react to it. And yeah, if people don't like it, boo, I'm okay with that. I think there's my a different relationship from him. Like as long as it works for you, right? Cuz I
123:30 - 124:00 mean, how many tools have created for people themselves, right? You don't think about anyone else. As as long as it works for me, I'm more than happy. And if that happens, there's a lot of people that is going to follow along, right? Because if you like it, a lot of people will like it as well. A lot of people will dislike it, but that's the way it is, right? So 50% all the time. Exactly. I think that this is the this is the issue I think with like
124:00 - 124:30 products in general. Like everyone wants they do like in in one in one way that fits data. Yeah. Yeah, cuz like I use Firefox, but I use Firefox because well I'm attached to Mozilla somehow like I have this memory. People started criticizing me before I used Firefox and then like I was just like sure man like so should I use Chrome and and and you know like then you guys are going to be okay. So you're happy.
124:30 - 125:00 Uhhuh. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like the other person wants me to use a tool that they want me to use because they believe that it's the right tool. So it's like it's just insanity in the end of the day. Yeah. That's that's the world we live in. That's the way it is. So no, one thing that I like about Sorry for the one thing I like about Ghosty is like one thing that Micho did was like he wrote everything in sick and man he
125:00 - 125:30 didn't give a damn like you know what I mean like he didn't he didn't care like if people going to be like oh why like why Z why this and why not yeah people did question and I think it's like he liked it more Z like he does not need to like a technical reason like uh I think one thing they said I saw in podcast was like it's like leers are like different flavors like of ice
125:30 - 126:00 cream sometimes you like more vanilla sometimes you like more strawberry and I like that mentality as well like yeah I want to do I has no mouse you don't like that dude just use other stuff yeah like uh I do with that like I'm going to you know I'm going to survive and uh you don't like him man go with ghost and go with like apple ter like I agree with
126:00 - 126:30 that like you know like nor anything yeah that's one of the reasons why I keep everything in my files cuz I could keep all of the stuff let me show you all of the stuff that I have here I have a lot of stuff, man. But I could create repos out of these. I don't want to. You know why? Cuz I'm going to start getting a lot of issues discussions. I don't want it there for me. And I just modify
126:30 - 127:00 them to my liking. If I want to change from CSH to Bash one day, I just do it. Nobody's going to say anything. And if someone does, it's just like, "Hey man, it's my files. Just work them." And yeah, go live your life, J. Yeah, exactly. I agree with you. But yeah, I think you have to do it for yourself and people is going to follow along. People with the same mentality
127:00 - 127:30 will find it and say, "Oh, I really like this. It's really interesting." and they're going to start using this thing surprises me about here because like when I started is like um like it started and there are some people they still there aren't still in the discord active for two years and man frankly when I started he was so bad I didn't understand like people were using but uh now I think this starting to
127:30 - 128:00 become a really competitive editor like terminal and uh and has features that many people like. People write in the red that that they enjoy real and stuff like that. But when I started was like was not good, man. Like it was not a piece of software that I was proud of. And uh but they they stayed, you know, like I think that they maybe like it the way that I approach it and like uh and
128:00 - 128:30 then they stay there and then yeah, I don't know always surprises me because it's like it kind of like they took you as like a I don't know like a toy project or extra project and then they just stayed there for fun and then using the terminal. I think that that is like a very tough I would say. Yep. Okay. And so you use Buu right now mainly to write Rust. What if you have
128:30 - 129:00 to edit other type of files like a bash script? What do you use? Do you use Bim or do you still use Boo there? Man, I I actually it is a good question. I I have like I have probably six or seven editors where I change every day. So it's like uh I try to learn with a different editor. So it's like mostly I think that I've been using Z. Um but I use anything a lot when well
129:00 - 129:30 when I Linux it's just anything. I don't have energy to do other crap but like yeah when I know Linux is just new and uh but when I know Mac I change a lot like I use red sublime like uh I just don't use VS code but like uh it's not that I have anything against maybe I have something against VS code I don't know but it's like uh but uh no I think
129:30 - 130:00 I think VS code comes from you're ashamed you're ashamed that people see you using VS Code. Is that it? I don't even have installed right now. I think I don't even have one here. Maybe I have the other computer, but it's like uh no, the thing is like I have problems with electro apps like uh I think it's they were not for that. But then the same way I think the VS code is is such a great
130:00 - 130:30 idea because like it takes the most popular language JavaScript that gives to this most popular language power enough to break down break like break through applications. So it's like this thing I have been thinking a lot about boo because it's like I would love to have the VS code plug is working both. So I have actually testing two
130:30 - 131:00 versions one with the JS engine and the one without it. And I think I'll give this officiently so you download whatever suits you. But it's like uh I think like JavaScript has power, you know, like it's just people just love to write JavaScript for do good stuff. And I think it's like in some ways like it feels more as a
131:00 - 131:30 scripting. I know it's crazy. I know this is crazy but sometimes I feel the feels more as as a scripting language than Lulu because not because I not because like I dislike blue I think L is great and it's very intuitive but it's like it's just like every person know JavaScript have you ever thought about it like it's not every every programmer at some moment wrote a JavaScript line of code like even if was to do something in the browser like to do trigger alert
131:30 - 132:00 And I had to think a lot about it like man should I just should I just do it should I just you know like do like a JavaScript like support for plugins in pool occasionally and what's going to happen cuz there's a lot of plugins in the VS Code ecosystem. Aren't you afraid of breaking changes like breaking stuff in your editor? Yeah, I think that this this this actually what has been held in me.
132:00 - 132:30 But uh but I think like this is why I say this like I think that is great like uh cuz I think VS Code was need needed for like for many people because people can just prototype stuff there. They can just create crazy stuff and it's very quick to do anything. Yeah. But in the same way, like you said before, there's people that just want to open something, go through through a like a marketplace, install what they need, and start
132:30 - 133:00 working. You don't have a lot of flexibility, you know, you just you can get started in 10 minutes. Neo, on the other hand, not that simple. Yeah, exactly. But I wish there was something in the middle because like I think the VS Cult is like it's just that they do like come on it's like a browser running there like a lot of magic. Yeah. But uh but I think it's is a great piece of software. No great piece of software. Maybe I'm
133:00 - 133:30 not being honest. But it's like uh I think it's like a is a great product. like it's not a great piece of software, but I think it's a great product cuz like it makes people, you know, like to get what they want very quick. Yeah. Yeah, makes sense. Yep. Yep. All right. And uh let's see. We've been here for two and a half hours. I don't think we
133:30 - 134:00 will have time to go through all the questions cuz what time? It's really late for you already, right? And um Oh, yeah. Yep. Let's just talk here. Uh, we already talked Neo Vim. I would like Well, we already talked a lot a lot about editors. Let's just talk operating systems and um we can wrap it up there, right? So, what's your Yep. Mine? Yep.
134:00 - 134:30 Man, I my favorite in me. Yeah. Oh Jesus. People is going to pick sides. So be careful because you're going to get the Mac OS guys upset or the Linux guys upset. Okay. So if I if I if I say I think like uh lately for him I feel they have been
134:30 - 135:00 helping more the Mac OS side because I have been working more with Mac OS but if I were talking about philosophy I think I side more with Linux and like I I have more beliefs on that on that Right. So either I don't know just 5050 your heart is divided. Yeah. I also have a heart
135:00 - 135:30 for Windows maybe 10% to 20%. Because like as I said like man I started to learn how to code through Windows like I was I didn't have money and you know like and when I was in Japan everyone was using Windows there like everyone. Oh really? So yeah, so it was just like was not like was not like oh 10 people 40 was like everyone was using
135:30 - 136:00 like every cer was using it and it made me think like yeah man like OS are just you know like like you get your job done whatever you use. So I I have a lot of respect for all. I think I just I I have a few problems like uh with each in different aspects like I don't I think the Linux desktop needs to evolve a lot of stuff yet and I think
136:00 - 136:30 that like u Mac like um I I think I'm I'm more use it because I have been using more professionally the past years but I I have few problems for example with the way that They they do things. Apple does thing. And uh and I think Windows I have problems with the quality of the OS. Like I feel that sometimes people just break things
136:30 - 137:00 like and the blue screen the blue screen out of nowhere. So I think that this a thing for me that I don't like on Windows but uh but man every all the three they have like strong sides. You know what I mean? like like uh and if you if if you have a machine that's very weak in terms of hardware like Linux is so great there like uh it's like I have this machine here and it's like it I
137:00 - 137:30 bought this second hand it's very old and it's like I run Arc there as people say Arc by the way and uh and but you have a kid right? Yeah. So, you're not on an arch user cuz uh Oh, I cannot be. And no, I think that the thing with arc is like it took a time to get it it
137:30 - 138:00 already like uh but then man arc scripts they're like like once you get that stalling arc script right then you're good. Like you don't need to worry more. And why Mac though? Like why not Linux at this point in life, right? You you seem more aligned with Linux, but why are you using Mac? Like I think I I still cuz that I don't know if you
138:00 - 138:30 remember I used to work with design at some moment. So it's like I think at some moment I felt that the hardware for designing Mac OS was much better than in Linux. So I was just like it was not impossible to be a good designer on Linux. But for example if I wanted to use like retina or like all these you know like displays that Mac does have and a friend of mine was just like yeah sure but you can you
138:30 - 139:00 can run Linux on Mac hardware. And I was just like, man, this looks good. But I never did. I don't know why. So maybe at some moment I should just give a try. And in Mac, what um CPU are you using? Are you on Intel or the Apple silicon? I used Intel for a long for a long time, but now I thank God that the ARM is like a like a new air just like like and how do you feel
139:00 - 139:30 about battery life for example? Um no it's not compared to Linux is no like Linux sometimes I leave the the computer up and running for 3 days and it's just like alive with the battery. Yeah. Yeah. This guy here, it's just like he gets the job done. Like I wish that I was using this more, but I am a lazy person.
139:30 - 140:00 So sometimes I just open the computer in the main and I keep holding it. So you get 3 days of battery life on the Linux computer. Yeah, I buy one. Yeah, but I I don't have much stuff on my Linux to be honest. just real rough and get Okay. Okay. Yeah, cuz that's a lot. That's a lot. I have used um Intelbased
140:00 - 140:30 machines. I used to have a laptop and the battery didn't last not even 3 hours, right? So, that's one of the reasons I think I'm still in Mac OS battery life cuz this M1 computers battery for me lasts um a long time. But um yeah, there's a big difference. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. But this is one, man. My arc is if you can see, it's very simple.
140:30 - 141:00 Probably I think I barely have stuff from work. Oh, yeah. I I I try to keep simple there. Okay. Okay. Good to know. All right, Rafa. So, is there anything else you want to share before we wrap it up? Um, just remember to send me your links, the the YouTube, GitHub, all that stuff, so I can put it in the video description.
141:00 - 141:30 Uh, and yeah, anything you want to share? Anything you want to I don't know if there's someone watching still, but probably there's a couple guys from my Discord that I that are still watching. So, any you want to anything you want to share? I don't have anything that I want to share. Uh, so far I hope that I have something ready to share about in the next months, but I don't have anything now. Okay. Wonderful. So, anytime you want to join a call, just let me know.
141:30 - 142:00 If you want to share stuff, let me know and I'm more than glad to have you here. So, no, it's my pleasure. I appreciate the talk. It was good. Yeah. Thanks for your time. So, I'll see you till the next time. All right. See you, man. Bye.