The Custom Arm PC Era is here.

Summary

Highlights

• The Radza Orion06 motherboard offers a new horizon for DIY ARM PCs. 🌄
• Despite its potential, the board feels unfinished and like a part of an extended beta phase. ⏳
• Geerling struggles with various driver and hardware issues that make the motherboard difficult to recommend right now. 🤔
• Consumers interested in ARM PCs likely need to wait for smoother firmware and software experiences. 📅
• The Radza Orion06 shows promise but needs more polish before it can compete with more established ARM solutions. 🌟

Key Takeaways

• The Radza Orion06 is a groundbreaking ARM motherboard that aims to offer a powerful yet efficient computing solution. 🎉
• Despite the hardware potential, the Real World RADZA has a lot of quirks and bugs that need fixing before it's consumer-ready. 🛠️
• The board offers a unique balance of efficiency and power for ARM PCs, but driver and firmware issues make it a tricky purchase right now. ⚠️
• If you're looking for a smooth plug-and-play experience, maybe hold off on this board for a bit longer. 💻
• Jeff suggests waiting for further firmware updates unless you love tinkering and debugging new tech every day! 🔄

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction to ARM Motherboard and Market Context The chapter provides an introduction to ARM motherboards within the context of the technological market. It distinguishes between low-end ARM solutions, such as Single Board Computers (SBCs) like the Raspberry Pi, which are suitable for tinkering and low-power server use, and the high-end ARM hardware exemplified by powerful devices like the Thelio Astra. The latter is noted for its high performance, even comparing to advanced systems like the Mac Pro. The chapter specifically highlights the Radza Orion06, marking its significance as a novel option for custom ARM PC builds within this spectrum.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Exploring the Orion06 as a Middle Ground Solution The chapter delves into the Orion06 as a potential middle ground solution for building a standards-based ARM PC with a good balance of performance, input/output capabilities, and efficiency. Initially viewed as an ideal option outside of the Apple ecosystem and the limited Qualcomm Snapdragon PCs, the author shares the initial excitement about recommending the Orion06 as a versatile and efficient choice. However, after several months of use, the conclusion is met with hesitation, indicating unresolved issues that prevent a full endorsement of the Orion06 at the moment.
• 01:00 - 01:30: Collaboration with MicroEnter The chapter titled "Collaboration with MicroEnter" describes the author's appreciation for the hands-on experience offered by MicroEnter, especially in receiving help with an ARM build. The author highlights the unique opportunity to physically interact with components like PC cases, keyboards, and GPUs. There are humorous moments involving a character named retro Jeff, who is attempting to buy unrelated items like light switches and even an atomic clock.
• 02:00 - 02:30: RADSA's Debug Party and Issues After Public Launch Chapter Title: RADSA's Debug Party and Issues After Public Launch
• 02:30 - 03:00: Inside the Orion06 Box The chapter titled 'Inside the Orion06 Box' discusses a $300, 32-gigabyte AI kit that has been delayed for more than 2 months. The narrator clarifies that even though they received the 16-gigabyte board for review from RADSA, it does not constitute a paid sponsorship. RADSA provided the kit to various hardware testers and organized what they call a 'debug party', where participants report issues on a forum for RADSA to address before the product's public launch.
• 03:00 - 03:30: Hybrid Motherboard Features A new '06 hybrid motherboard was released, facing some fundamental issues despite its recent launch. The package includes the motherboard with a heatsink cooler combo and an acrylic case that ensures good ventilation. An optional AI kit comes with a stylish enclosure, although there are delays in its delivery. The board reflects an increasing trend in hybrid motherboards as AMD and Intel advance their mobile CPU technologies.
• 03:30 - 04:00: Performance and IO Features The chapter discusses the features of certain desktop boards specifically focusing on the N150 and N305 chips. These boards are likened to miniITX motherboards but with specific mobile versions of CPU and RAM already soldered onto the board, eliminating the possibility of upgrading these components. The board is highlighted for its extensive IO features, which are considered the most comprehensive for ARM boards below server-level offerings by Ampear. It includes two USBC ports equipped for both Power Delivery and display output, with the left port capable of 4K 60Hz display output. Additionally, it includes several USB ports, namely USB 2 and USB 3.2, enhancing its connectivity options.
• 04:00 - 04:30: Challenges with Multi-core Apps and Software The chapter discusses various hardware features of a particular board, including ports like HDMI display port, dual 5 gig Ethernet, an analog headset jack, and importantly, a full-size PCI Express slot. It's highlighted that the PCIe Gen 4 by8 is potentially great for high-speed applications like 100 gigabit network cards. A user named Willie used it to achieve 70 GB of traffic through Haroxy, showcasing the board's capability to be a powerful yet quiet networking tool.
• 04:30 - 05:00: Outdated Specs and Present Hardware Limitations The chapter discusses the limitations of CPU architecture that impact the performance of multi-core applications, highlighting that these constraints prevent optimal speed. It emphasizes the need for patience among early adopters of Radza hardware, as its full potential isn't realized immediately upon release. The available features at launch may not match those advertised on the website, with some possibly never functioning as expected. Personal experience is shared regarding a discrepancy between the promised and actual specifications of a pre-ordered AI kit, notably concerning the number of CPU cores.
• 05:00 - 05:30: Performance Testing Results The chapter discusses the performance testing results of a board. Initially, it was expected to support up to 2.8 GHz with 12 cores, but it has been revised to support 2.6 GHz. Depending on the configuration and the latest firmware, actual performance might be limited to eight cores and 2.4-2.5 GHz, which is considered a pessimistic outlook. On a positive note, there is a full BIOS with UEFI support, although compatibility with everything is not guaranteed, especially when using Windows.
• 05:30 - 06:00: Building a Custom PC with the Orion06 The chapter discusses the challenges of building a custom PC using the Orion06 board, particularly focusing on the issues with finding Windows on ARM drivers and the unpredictability of Linux support. The author shares their personal experience of spending significant time resolving various driver issues, highlighting that this is not an ideal situation for someone looking to build a PC with ease. The chapter concludes with a cautious outlook, suggesting that the situation may improve in the future but is currently fraught with difficulties.
• 06:00 - 06:30: Windows Installation Experience and Challenges The chapter delves into the complexities and frustrations of setting up an ARM PC for the first time, including issues related to operating system versions, drivers, and firmware. The narrator highlights the extensive testing process, involving two complete cycles. Initially, tests were conducted on a 0.2.x firmware, followed by another round on a more advanced system-ready firmware version 9. Despite the challenges, the goal was to achieve performance and efficiency comparable to Apple's M series but on a more open platform. The results show some promise, with the performance being in a similar ballpark.
• 06:30 - 07:00: Linux Installation and GPU Testing The chapter discusses the challenges and comparisons involved in Linux installation and GPU testing. Despite being in the same league as Apple's M1 processor, the device in question lacks efficiency and exhibits inconsistent benchmark results. It is noted to be more responsive than a Raspberry Pi but not comparable to it, given its price and 12-core architecture. Instead, performance is roughly half as fast when compared to more current processors like the M2 or Snapdragon X.
• 07:00 - 07:30: Using GPUs and AI Applications The chapter discusses the challenges faced while using GPUs and other computing devices like Raspberry Pi and Mac Mini for AI applications. The speaker mentions difficulties in achieving efficiency, specifically not reaching 1 gigaflop per watt. There are inconsistencies in benchmarking reports with varying GHz readings, despite BIOS settings pointing to a specific frequency. The chapter highlights the complexities of different CPU core types, such as efficiency and performance cores on Intel and big and little cores on ARM, and how firmware maps these cores.
• 07:30 - 08:00: Gaming Experience and Conclusion The chapter discusses the issues with running software on Linux and Windows if not configured correctly, leading to performance problems. It highlights the impressive performance of LPDDR5 RAM, which offers speeds between 40 to 50 GB/s. Although this is slower than some high-end ARM PCs from Apple and Qualcomm, it's much faster than most Single Board Computers (SBCs). For a price range of $200 to $300, the performance is considered acceptable despite some inconsistencies in benchmarks. The chapter concludes with a wish for more consistent performance metrics and better utilization of the board.
• 08:00 - 08:30: Additional Commentary on Market Challenges and Tariffs The chapter discusses the apparent high power consumption of a device using mobile class hardware, registering 15 watts when idle. This consumption is noted for being unexpected given its mobile hardware specifications. The device offers a unique advantage over competitors like Apple, Qualcomm, and Raspberry Pi due to its ability to be incorporated into a custom-built PC. The flexibility in hardware configuration is demonstrated by an attempt to install the device into a compact ITX case, identified as the 'Mushroom.' However, challenges arose when selecting a graphics card, which was slightly too large for the case. Modifications were necessary, including removing a corner of the case and discarding some front panel connectors, to accommodate the custom setup.

The Custom Arm PC Era is here. Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 This is a graphics card and mounted to it I have this little ARM motherboard. This is the Radza Orion06 and until now nothing like this has ever existed for custom ARM PC builds. On the low end you have SBC's and embedded ARM devices like the Raspberry Pi. They're great for tinkering or low power servers, but they don't have a lot of grunt or IO. On the high end, you have ampear with OP hardware like the Theelio Astra. This thing is faster than a Mac Pro with
• 00:30 - 01:00 a pretty high price to match. But outside of Apple's walled garden and Qualcomm's weird Windows only, but not really Snapdragon PCs, there's nothing in the middle. Well, when I found the Orion '06, it looks like the perfect middle ground. Maybe I can finally build a standardsbased ARM PC with enough grunt and IO to do almost anything while still getting the efficiency ARM is known for. I so want to recommend this thing to you, but after using it for months, I can't. At least not yet. Why?
• 01:00 - 01:30 Well, it's not the hardware. At least I don't think it is. But before I get to testing, I wanted to thank MicroEnter for giving me a hand with the ARM build. How many other places can you walk in and actually get hands-on with things like PC cases, keyboards, GPUs? Wait, what are you doing? We're not buying light switches. I knew I shouldn't have let retro Jeff go shopping. No, that's not actually an atomic clock. No, don't put that in the cart. Well, anyway, as I was saying, being able to walk in and grab a graphics card or whatever
• 01:30 - 02:00 components you need is priceless. No, no, wait. We don't need those fans. No, we don't need another soldering iron right now either. Stay on track. Microenter is the kind of store where you can't leave without three new project ideas and all the hardware to build them. I only wish they had more locations. Well, good news. They're opening another one soon in Santa Clara, California. Maybe I'll be there. We'll get to the full build later in this video, but for now, check out MicroEnter's latest deals using my links in the description. I pre-ordered the
• 02:00 - 02:30 $300 32 gig AI kit the day this thing was announced, and that hasn't shipped yet, more than 2 months late now. Rats is not paying me for this video, and they're not technically sponsoring it. But since they did provide this 16 gig board for review, I follow the policy I always follow. I mark the video sponsored and I'm telling you about it upfront. They sent this kit out to a bunch of hardware testers and for months we've had what RADSA calls a debug party. People post their issues to a forum thread and hopefully Radza fixes some of those things before the public launch. Except the public launch
• 02:30 - 03:00 happened a month ago and there are still some fundamental problems with this board, but I'll talk about those later. In the box, you get the '06 board itself with a heatsink cooler combo. It also has an acrylic case that looks nice and provides adequate ventilation. If you order the AI kit like I did, you're supposed to also get this fancy enclosure, but apparently that's taken a lot longer to get out the door. The '06 motherboard is a bit of a hybrid motherboard. In fact, I've been seeing more of these boards as AMD has stepped up its mobile CPU game, and Intel has
• 03:00 - 03:30 their nicer N150 and N305 chips. They're like normal miniITX motherboards with ATX Power, PCIe, and M.2 two slots, but the CPU and RAM chips are all mobile versions that are soldered straight onto the board. So, there's no upgrading the RAM or the CPU on this thing. But for IO, this is the most fully featured ARM board outside of the server class boards from Ampear. It has two USBC ports for both PD and even display port. This left port can do 4K 60. Then there are a couple USB 2 ports, a couple USB 3.2
• 03:30 - 04:00 ports, HDMI display port, dual 5 gig Ethernet, and even an old school analog headset jack. My favorite part of this board, of course, is the full-size PCI Express slot. Supposedly capable of PCIe Gen 4 by8. It should be fast enough for things like 100 gigabit network cards. Something Forum user Willie actually did. He was able to get 70 GB of traffic through Haroxy, meaning this board could be a quiet networking beast. Could be because, as I found, there's also a lot
• 04:00 - 04:30 of weirdness about how the CPU works that prevents most multi-core apps from running as fast as they could. And anyone who's bought Radza hardware early on knows this, but it bears mentioning this board needs a little more time in the oven. Radza has a wiki with a lot of helpful information. The board runs a lot of things well already. But if you already ordered one of these things, don't expect all the features listed on the website to run on day one, and some things don't expect them to ever run. In fact, when I pre-ordered my AI kit, the website said there were 12 cores at up
• 04:30 - 05:00 to 2.8 GHz. As of right now, the specs were updated to showing 12 cores, but up to 2.6 GHz. And in reality, with the latest firmware, depending on how you're running the board, you might only get eight cores and only 2.4 or 2.5 GHz. But, I mean, that's a little pessimistic. In good news, it looks like RADS is trying. There's a full BIOS on this thing with full UEFI support. That doesn't mean everything works out of the box, though. If you run around Windows,
• 05:00 - 05:30 first, ew. But second, there are precious few drivers for Windows on ARM. And on Linux, depending on what version and what you install, you might get iGPU support or you might not. You might get Ethernet drivers or you might not. That's kind of how this board is. I think in a year or two, it might be in a better place, but I probably spent a dozen hours just working on different driver issues to get everything tested. That's not something I'd want you watching this video to have to do. It doesn't leave a good taste in your mouth
• 05:30 - 06:00 when the first time you build an ARM PC, you're wrestling with OS versions, drivers, and firmware for the first few weeks. I did wrestle with all that stuff. And after not one but two full cycles of testing, first on a 0.2.x firmware, then again on the system ready firmware at version 9, I have test data, a lot of it. I've said before on this channel, what I'm looking for is basically Apple M series performance and efficiency, but in a more open platform. And we get a little bit of that. This thing is at least in the same ballpark.
• 06:00 - 06:30 Well, the same ballpark as Apple's M1, which is 5 years old now, but it's way off on efficiency. There's something weird with the CPU because even after multiple firmware updates, benchmarks are all over the board. Though, on average, this thing does feel a lot more responsive and snappy than something like a Raspberry Pi. But at 210 bucks and with 12 cores, I don't want to compare this to a Raspberry Pi. I want to compare it to an M2 or a Snapdragon X. Compared to those chips, this thing is half as fast. But compared to a
• 06:30 - 07:00 Raspberry Pi, or heck, even my M4 Mac Mini, that's the most efficient computer I've ever tested, something is seriously off. I can't even get 1 gigaflop per watt of efficiency on here. And some benchmarking software reports 2.5 GHz and others reports 2.4 and and all that despite me setting the BIOS to 2.6 GHz. I'm not going to get into the weeds on this, but when you have a CPU where there are different types of cores, like efficiency and performance cores on Intel or big and little cores on ARM, your firmware has to kind of map things
• 07:00 - 07:30 correctly. Otherwise, Linux and Windows will have no clue how to run software, and you end up with kind of a mess. And that's kind of where we are. At least the LPDDR5 RAM is pretty performant, giving me speeds into the 40 to 50 GB per second range. That's a lot faster than most SBC's, but it is a little slower than the latest high-end ARM PCs from Apple and Qualcomm. But for 200 to 300 bucks, I can accept slower than Apple, but faster than an SBC. I just wish I saw more consistency in the benchmarks and maybe the board not using
• 07:30 - 08:00 15 watts at idle. That seems way more than I'd expect for something that's using mobile class hardware. But the one thing this can do that Apple, Qualcomm, and Raspberry Pi can't, I can build this into a custom PC. And since the board's so small, I can use a nice ITX case like the Mushroom. Although, I found out the graphics card I chose was just a wee bit too big. That is, unless I removed one of the corners of the case. Just ignore the side panel hanging off over there. Oh, and ignore the front panel connectors I had to remove. Oh, and
• 08:00 - 08:30 maybe also the IO shield that didn't fit because the mesh has a metal lip in that area. But I mean, if it looks mostly good, that works, right? But it didn't. The graphics card. I mean, I wanted to see how running an LLM on here would go with a full 20 gigs of VRAM on an RX7900 XT, but when I plugged it in, I got this bus error. So, I put a pin in that and switch tracks for a bit. I popped the board back out of the case to try out Windows. Why? Well, the '06 has full UFI support just like the Theo Astra. Also,
• 08:30 - 09:00 I'm a sucker for pain. Except for the first time on any ARM 64 system outside of some of the Qualcomm PCs, the install of Windows was actually easy. I just downloaded the ARM 64 ISO from Microsoft, flashed it to a USB stick with Rufus, and it installed. I did notice a couple quirks, though. First, since Windows has basically zero built-in Ethernet drivers, I had to use an external USB Ethernet adapter. Then, for video output, the desktop would just freeze sometimes when I was using it through the Jet KVM. It it never did
• 09:00 - 09:30 that under Linux. Then when I tried plugging in directly to either my screen capture box or my monitor, it would get stuck in this 480p mode. I think it might have to do with the custom display port to HDMI chip that Radza uses. But otherwise, Windows 11 ran surprisingly well. 4K YouTube playback was pretty smooth, even while I was sucking up 30% of the CPU recording the screen with a snipping tool. The system sees the eight cores the firmware exposes, but apparently the other four cores are hidden away in the system ready version of the firmware on both Windows and
• 09:30 - 10:00 Linux. Another weird thing is Task Manager was only showing 2.4 GHz speeds under load, not the 2.6 I set in the BIOS and not even the slower 2.5 GHz default option. So, there's definitely something weird going on with scheduling on the CPU cores. Despite all that, web browsing was smooth and the only thing that seemed a little off was sometimes the SSD felt a little slow, though Crystal Disc Mark speeds seemed normal. To round out my Windows experience, I ran Geekbench and Cinebench and here are those results. Nothing incredible, but
• 10:00 - 10:30 it is between a Raspberry Pi 5 and the Qualcomm Snapdragon X. But unlike the Pi, this has a full BIOS, so I can install Windows without any hacks. And unlike the Snapdragon, I can install Linux without any hacks. Speaking of Linux, the Geekbench score on Linux was 5 to 10% faster, even with the same CPU cores enabled. Chalk that up as another Linux win. And I know a few of you already left a comment saying this, but yes, I plugged in a graphics card and no, it doesn't work in Windows. Why? Well, if I look in Device Manager,
• 10:30 - 11:00 Windows knows it's plugged in, but there's no driver for it. And yes, I went to Nvidia's website and downloaded the Windows 11 driver for Windows. They don't distinguish between ARM 64 and x86, even though they do that on Linux. But I tried running the installer anyway, and as I expected, it failed. Right now, nobody outside of Qualcomm really has GPU drivers for Windows on ARM. Well, them and ASPED who have a tiny 2D graphics driver for Ampear server motherboards. But you know where GPUs actually do work? Linux. I plugged
• 11:00 - 11:30 this Nvidia A400 card in, plugged my monitor into one of its display port outputs, and at least after IU started loading, I got output. There were all these errors, and it seemed like the open source Nuvo driver wasn't very happy, but it worked. I installed the Nvidia driver version, and it seemed like it ran a little better, but apps like Firefox weren't able to use GPU acceleration. You can see the cards detected fine and Gnome is using it, but the WebGL Aquarium demo uses software rendering here, which is why it's so choppy. The A400's from Nvidia, though.
• 11:30 - 12:00 I wanted to see how a modern AMD card would run. So, that's why I bought the 7900 XT, though, I would probably opt for a shorter card next time if I'm going to put it in this case. But how does AMD do? The 7900 XT kept giving me errors, so I replaced it with a W700, which got the same error. and I decided to put the board on my bench table instead of in the case at this point because I got the feeling that I'd be swapping out a lot of hardware. So, next I tried my older 6700 XT that I'd been testing on my Pi, but it gave me some
• 12:00 - 12:30 other errors. Reading through the Radza forms, it looks like newer RDNA cards from AMD can have issues depending on what BIOS and OS versions you run. Okay, so what about Nvidia then? I already had the A400 working, but that's a puny little card. I plugged in this 3080 Tai and it actually worked right out of the box. It wasn't perfect. I still got some errors and tools like GLARK were only using like 10 to 20% of the GPU's performance, but it did work. One alarming thing though, when I shut down
• 12:30 - 13:00 the system, the fans on the card went full blast. Apparently, there's a bug in the BIOS that doesn't fully power off cards that are plugged into the slot. Luckily, my EVGA card goes into a failsafe mode where the fans ramp up so it doesn't overheat, but some cards might not do that. Hopefully, that gets fixed soon. But after booting it back up, I tried out some large language models like Llama and Deepseek. The CPU on this thing can do like four tokens per second with Deepseek R114B using Olama using the GPU 65. Not only that,
• 13:00 - 13:30 you know you're in for a good time when NVTOP shows the card sucking down almost all the 400 watts that this thing can take from the power supply. If you're just doing AI networking or GPU compute, this board might actually be a good option right now, all things considered. But for all the other little quirks, it's still a little bit rough. Like other ARM systems, most graphics cards don't display the BIOS screen. You have to be plugged into the motherboard's HDMI connector for that. And for gaming, I got the open source Doom 3 demo running, and it was pretty smooth thanks
• 13:30 - 14:00 to Pi Apps, but I couldn't uncap the frame limit, so I couldn't really tell exactly how much better this is doing than like a Raspberry Pi. But bonus, the sound output actually works on here. That's not always guaranteed with drivers on ARM, but I haven't had enough time to run other games yet. Since Steam doesn't install on a 64-bit only board like this one, it's a little more annoying getting my full gaming stack set up for testing. The bottom line, a couple months post launch now, it feels like everyone who's bought one of these boards is part of
• 14:00 - 14:30 some extended beta period. And that stinks because this hardware at just over 200 bucks for the base model is a pretty decent value. It's not perfect. I mean, if you're going to go full desktop with full-size expansion slots, full send the thing. I'd be happy to pay an extra hundred bucks for a socketed CPU and RAM slots or even just RAM slots. It's the best ARM ITX motherboard on the market today. But let's be honest, it's almost the only ARM ITX motherboard on the market today. Apparently, 6 or CIX
• 14:30 - 15:00 is working on upstream Linux support. OpenBSD already added support and there's a lot of effort to getting this thing running stable in all flavors of Linux. But RAD has played this game before. They're a hardware company first. Their firmware is often a day late and a dollar short. They're better than some other SPC makers, sure, but so many times I've mentioned on this channel, software and user experience are what attracts mainstream buyers. Right now, the firmware that runs this board, it's just not there. I think it could be and maybe for a few use cases
• 15:00 - 15:30 it already is. But for most people, while it's fun building your own little ARM desktop PC, especially with a board that's only a few hundred bucks, I have to say hold off for now. If there's another new firmware that fixes all the problems I've encountered, I'll retest it. But I've already done two full test cycles. And you know what they say, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice. Until next time, I'm Jeff Gearling. You thought this video was over, but it's not. Right as I was finished uploading, putting all the metadata in
• 15:30 - 16:00 and everything, I got an email from a race or a race or whatever the company is that I bought the thing from, and it said, "Uh, we're sorry, but we're not going to be able to ship you the order that you ordered in December. With the tariffs in place, they've canled all the early orders that haven't shipped, and you have to reorder. And with the new order, they won't use FedEx or UPS or whatever DHL uh that they used to use, and now they're using 4XL or something like that. Anyway, the bottom line is
• 16:00 - 16:30 you have to pay the tariff up front, which uh for the AI kit 32 gig board is $1,500. And at $1,500, it's not worth it for me to place that order anymore. I don't know. And I don't know how many people in the US are going to buy one of these boards if you're paying 1,500 bucks where you could literally buy uh the full ampier desktop board which is going to give you a ton more power, a ton more PCIe lanes, ton more RAM flexibility and everything. I I think for those of us in the US, the uh the
• 16:30 - 17:00 idea of buying this board, even if you were interested in it, is pretty much dead right now until uh somebody can find a way to get past those uh insane tariff markups. Anyway, yeah.