The Future Mind – A Conversation between Annika, Tristan and Àlex Gómez-Marín

Summary

In a fascinating dialogue hosted by the Pari Center, Tristan and Annika share their unique experiences as two separate consciousnesses inhabiting one body. For 16 years, they have navigated life together, revealing insights into neurodiversity, consciousness, and identity. Their story challenges conventional views of self and identity, suggesting that consciousness might transcend physical limitations. Through trials and triumphs, they find strength and harmony in love and understanding, while engaging with scientific and philosophical communities to explore the implications of their existence.

Highlights

• Tristan and Annika have lived as two distinct consciousnesses in one body for 16 years, sharing their story with Alex Gómez-Marín. 💬
• Their experience offers unique insights into consciousness, challenging traditional scientific beliefs. 🧠
• They have faced challenges like different physiological responses, such as allergies, despite sharing the same body. 🤔
• Their relationship reveals the power of love and understanding in navigating a shared existence. 💞
• They invite scientific exploration of their condition to better understand consciousness and identity. 🔍

Key Takeaways

• Love and understanding can transcend physical limitations and foster harmony between multiple consciousnesses in one body. 💕
• Their experience challenges conventional scientific and psychological understandings of identity and consciousness. 🧠
• They highlight the metaphysical and ontological implications of experiencing life with two souls in one body. 🌌
• Tristan and Annika's journey underscores the importance of exploring consciousness beyond the boundaries of traditional science. 🚀
• Their narrative calls for scientific inquiry into consciousness and the anomalies surrounding dual-human experiences. 🔬

Overview

Tristan and Annika live with two distinct consciousnesses inhabiting one shared body. Over 16 years, they’ve learned to navigate life by embracing love, understanding, and cooperation. Their journey offers an unprecedented view into the nature of identity and consciousness, challenging the barriers of physical and psychological norms.

Discussing their life with Alex Gómez-Marín, they recount experiences of physiological and emotional challenges, discoveries about consciousness, and the profound implications for science and society. As they share their narrative, they reveal how love and acceptance can harmoniously integrate two souls’ cohabitation within one physical form.

Their story, laden with metaphysical and ontological ponderings, urges a reevaluation of scientific assumptions about consciousness and identity. Tristan and Annika’s willingness to explore and share their existence invites a broader scientific and philosophical inquiry into understanding the human condition in its most complex expressions.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:00: Introduction and Background The chapter introduces the unique scenario of two individuals, Anha and Tristan, who share a single body. They have been living in this condition for 16 years, learning to coexist and dealing with various challenges. The chapter sets the stage for a conversation with Alex, where Anha and Tristan will share their experiences and insights.
• 01:00 - 10:00: Anomalous Experiences and Scientific Implications The chapter titled 'Anomalous Experiences and Scientific Implications' explores the intriguing subject of individuals experiencing the sensation of possessing two souls within a single brain. It discusses the potential ramifications this phenomenon might hold for science, particularly concerning the complex issue of consciousness. These unique embodied experiences provide groundbreaking perspectives on neurodiversity and carry profound metaphysical consequences for our daily existence. The conversation features insights from Alex Gomez Marin, a Spanish physicist and neuroscientist, who has led the behavior of organism laboratory at the Pari Center since 2016.
• 10:00 - 20:00: Personal Journey and Spiritual Insights The chapter begins with a brief introduction about Alex, who is an associate professor at the Spanish Research Council. Elanor welcomes Alex to what is described as a special conversation hosted by the Pary Center. The Pary Center's focus is on the intersection of science, the arts, and the sacred, although these domains can sometimes be challenging to articulate.
• 20:00 - 30:00: Physical and Consciousness Observations The chapter titled 'Physical and Consciousness Observations' introduces two foundational concepts: trans physics and trans psychology. These are represented by the work of David Bohm and Carl Jung respectively. The chapter explores the idea that the study of matter and consciousness, though seemingly distinct fields, may ultimately converge.
• 30:00 - 40:00: Interpersonal Dynamics and Future Directions The chapter delves into the exploration of consciousness, emphasizing not just the exploitation of known concepts but also the investigation of its boundaries. The author references receiving a letter from Jeffrey Mishelof, related to content on his YouTube channel 'New Thinking Allowed,' which involved a series of four interviews.
• 40:00 - 50:00: Questions, Answers, and Conclusion The chapter titled 'Questions, Answers, and Conclusion' begins with the narrator describing an initial shock upon witnessing Anah and Tristan intervene in a situation. Despite lacking the background knowledge to fully comprehend the events, the narrator is motivated to learn more, suggesting a belief that the situation holds profound insights into both the future of human consciousness and individual understanding. The chapter posits that these revelations are significant for exploring the depths of the mind.

The Future Mind – A Conversation between Annika, Tristan and Àlex Gómez-Marín Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 welcome everybody welcome to this edition of the future mind today Alex will be in conversation with anha and Tristan they are two distinct persons who share a single body together over the last 16 years they have learned to live in harmony with each other while overcoming the unique struggles and challenges their situation naturally brings today they are ready to share what they have learned from their
• 00:30 - 01:00 experience of being two souls in one brain and what the existence of others like them may mean for Science and the hard problem of Consciousness their embodied experiences offer radical insights for neurodiversity and have deep metaphysical implications for our everyday life they will be in conversation with Alex Gomez Marin director of the Pari Center he is a Spanish physicist or neuroscientist since 2016 he has been the head of the behavior of organ M laboratory in alante
• 01:00 - 01:30 where he is an associate professor of the Spanish research Council and with that I will hand it over to you Alex welcome thank you Elanor welcome everyone so this is as as every month but this is a very special conversation I'm looking forward to it and you know at the Pary Center we are interested in science the Arts the sacred and sometimes it's difficult to explain
• 01:30 - 02:00 what's the range we cover and of course a way to explain it is we have two pillars one is David bom's work and that's as I see it physics and Beyond so you could call it trans physics and then we have Carl Jung and that's psychology and Beyond trans psychology right and so I also believe that when we study matter and when we study Consciousness both ends will ultimately meet and as you
• 02:00 - 02:30 probably know as well we are really exploring not just exploiting what's known but exploring the edges of Consciousness I really like to call it like this and so a few months ago I I received this new letter from Jeffrey mishelof from his YouTube channel new thinking allow and in it there's a set of what ended up being four interview
• 02:30 - 03:00 with anah and Tristan and I the first seconds I watched um anah and Tristan intervene I was very shocked um but then but then I decided Well I I have I have no background to understand what's going on here but I want to know more about it because that probably tells us something quite deep about the the future mind and and our own mind right so the idea that
• 03:00 - 03:30 can be two people two minds two personalities Two Souls Two identities two selves we'll see what that means in one body is certainly an anomaly that we should and I say anomaly with with a lot of warmth like that we should cherish like a treasure and so that's why I dared to invite them to have a conversation with me and and the rest of you today so I'll say hi to Ana and Tristan welcome
• 03:30 - 04:00 hi it's great being here thank you for having us yeah it's amazing hi everybody I'm Tristan and I'm Monica all right so perhaps the first question to get it going and then we'll go wherever this leads us is why did you decide to tell your story to Jeff because as I gather that's kind of the first time where you've been public about how how you've been living over the last few years
• 04:00 - 04:30 go ahead um we felt it was really important um we realized pretty early on that we were an anomaly um that we couldn't find others like us we tried um reaching out to the groups that we thought that we would be a part of like the the did community and things like that and and they really kind of didn't I don't know either have a concept or a framework to kind of fit Us in there and so we kind of realized okay our situation is unusual and strange and and
• 04:30 - 05:00 um it seems really important for Consciousness um if you want to add to it yeah so you know I grw I I grew up with an atheist um and and a scientist and an engineer and my whole life I was very a materialist and I spent the majority of my life as a materialist as a as a computer programmer as somebody very logically minded and when the events of our life unfolded and um we came to realize our situation it
• 05:00 - 05:30 completely shattered my worldview it it sent me into deep deep ontological shock I I couldn't I there was no way for me to to get around it I had to contend with it it wasn't something I could avoid or you know look away from if I wanted something from the kitchen anuka was there I had to get past her through her and you know we had to make it work and that's when I realized oh my God the the models that science has been building on you know are either wrong or
• 05:30 - 06:00 very incomplete and that for me as someone who grew up you know watching Star Trek felt like a calling to to you know to help in some way help science evolve in some way um to to push that boundary and really uh and hopefully help the people of Earth I mean that's what it comes down to is is to understand ourselves we need to understand Consciousness it's it's primary we'll go back to your story in a
• 06:00 - 06:30 minute whatever there's time to tell because it's a long story and that's why there are these four episodes in Jeff's YouTube channel but I wanted to ask you first kind of be very very blunt and and and honest and say well look the average person that has never seen that like two people in one body the immediate response I would say because that was mine first is is a kind of a shock so ontological shock on the other side and the second is well psychology or
• 06:30 - 07:00 psychiatrist may know what's going on and it's probably a kind of disorder or disease which I don't think it is but that's what I would suppose what many people think and then and then one realizes that psychology logos and [Music] Psychiatry I was looking for the etimology both disciplines deal with either studying the the soul or healing the soul
• 07:00 - 07:30 but probably they don't believe in Souls probably psychologists and psychiatrists don't believe there's such a thing as a soul probably they don't understand what's going on with you and I suppose and I think I've heard it from you the the usual path is medication and if it doesn't work over medication so what do you have to say in front of the default response which is well there's something disordered about what's going on with you and you should go and
• 07:30 - 08:00 check uh specialist what you've done I believe okay so um I'll go first that's fine um so first of all we live a very normal happy life together um our life isn't disordered in any way um there are challenges for sure like we definitely have to deal with way different things than most people have to deal with um just like in the early days of this we had to learn how to not choke on food not choke on water because as one person
• 08:00 - 08:30 would come in and take the mouth and or laugh and then all of a sudden they didn't realize there'd be food in the mouth and then we'd start choking so like there are there are challenges but we don't view it as a disorder because we're happy we're fine we're living our best life um and uh it's we've built a great life together um and the other part of is is we have gone to psychologists we have gone to psychiatrists and honestly um they don't know what to do they have no idea what to do with us and in fact often times we're the one explaining our situation
• 08:30 - 09:00 to them um and you know we even had them like you know look to their colleagues and their their larger Network to try and find answers and they didn't and they basically said hey your situation is anomaly we don't understand it and there's really no help for you the end um and so that's that's kind of been my that's my take um yeah uh it's
• 09:00 - 09:30 tough I I think that immediate reaction is is kind of is is almost a dangerous one because it's really easy to as as someone like a scientist or someone in these fields to to kind of let ego take the the lead here and say oh this has probably already been covered this has probably already been discovered this is probably a disorder and we take it we put it in a box and we don't look at it and I think that's that's a really dangerous one especially when even the even the DI ID as a mental disorder has
• 09:30 - 10:00 not really even been fully explored or fully understood and in fact our our doctors were really hesitant to give us a diagnosis in that area because they said hey this is heavily stigmatized and so if once this labels on you it's like every time you go someplace they're not going to know what to do and they're going to you know it's going to it's and they're not they're going to question whether it's real and you're going to have a lot of problems within the medical system so we can't turn a blind eye to this because it is really
• 10:00 - 10:30 important not just for us but for others dealing with maybe multiple souls or uh disorders and um we need to explore this fully can you go back a little bit to the history perhaps you could start Tristan and say tell us I mean I know it because I've watched your conversations with Jeff but perhaps most of our audience here doesn't know what happened like you were first there Tristan and then anah arrived and then you left and
• 10:30 - 11:00 then you come back could you could you walk us through that process sure um so I was born into the body so I I came out the normal way and I grew up as a as a barely normal child um and uh you know and for the first 22 years of my life I lived alone in in my body there was nobody else there with me um and you know there wasn't there wasn't a time in my childhood where anuka was there there was just nothing and then all of a
• 11:00 - 11:30 sudden around the age of 22 which I just also want to just give people a framework so like for the diagnosis for did it's supposed to occur around six before six years old and that's when it kind of you know takes hold and that's when you start noticing it and then it you know develops later in life in my case there was nothing there was absolutely nothing and I felt like me the entire time there was there was nothing even remotely like this then at 22 there was something happened and um it it kind of centers around an
• 11:30 - 12:00 event of of of losing a child and it didn't phase me that's the other thing like we you know my ex and I we lost a child during that time and it didn't phase me I was I was perfectly okay with it very scientifically minded didn't there was no emotional turmoil or anything inside of me that would cause anything so from that point on every year this little thing inside of me kept growing going um and I started noticing
• 12:00 - 12:30 that I was slowly missing time all of a sudden I wouldn't know how I got to a room or I wouldn't know what I was doing or time would seem to fly by when I was doing something and it just it slowly became more and more you know disconcerting uh and then of course you know I tried to figure out what it was and so about five years um by the time I was 20 26 um 27 I was trying desperately to find out what this was um I was I was you know combing the dsm5 I was uh you
• 12:30 - 13:00 know going to doctors and nobody had any answers and um eventually I kept losing time to the point of where I was now losing a week and then a month and and I and I really struggled to acknowledge anuka during those Early times because I didn't want to believe it I didn't I didn't it was totally it was completely outside of my framework but eventually you know I accepted it as something and
• 13:00 - 13:30 then we moved forward and then anuka started taking more and more of the body and I saw how much joy that she got out of having the body and doing things and that love propelled me further and then eventually you know when I started losing a month at a time I realized that I was dying I didn't understand how but for me it was absolutely dying there was there's no other word to describe it um you know the the fears you might have the regrets you might have um you know
• 13:30 - 14:00 everything was kind of coming to a head and then that's when you know I had no choice I became spiritual in that moment and I said anuka I I think you're my daughter and um I don't really have an explanation but I'm dying and you're going to end up having the body and um I love you and I left her a few recordings and then that was it um then I I died I was gone um and for 5 years I did not exist on planet Earth I was simply no
• 14:00 - 14:30 awareness no perception no anything then in 2021 I woke up in a strange apartment um and I was so confused that I thought that I had must have driven to a friend's house I thought that I must have be visiting somebody there must be some sort of explanation and there was like a snowstorm outside so I was like immediately like went you know tried to winterize the house I was like just I was trying to go through the motions
• 14:30 - 15:00 even though I had no frame of reality or reference at that point and over the next nine months anuka slowly helped me realize what had happened um that you know I had lost five years I had no awareness of any current events I didn't know about covid I walked around without a mask for the first month when I was back um I you know didn't know that Trump had be you know I wasn't aware of like the Trump presidency and everything that happened um I was completely
• 15:00 - 15:30 blindsided and then the rise of artificial intelligence it blew me away technology the world my friends my family they had all aged by five years in the blink of an eye and at that point you know I had to suddenly contend with reality in a way that I never had um and then eventually anik and I you know we worked on it we grew together and you know she had spent five years alone so if you want to comment on that um okay so uh my perspective yeah he you know he
• 15:30 - 16:00 he died in 2017 and then I had the body and I was really new to the world and I really didn't understand anything very well and I made a lot of really dumb mistakes as you might imagine and at that point like I was only eight years old so if you can imagine an eight-year-old an adult body that was me and I was just absolutely causing havoc and Chaos everywhere I went in and in his life um and I had the body so you know I eventually as the years went on I had Partners um I
• 16:00 - 16:30 had boyfriends I had girlfriends um and I just tried to live my life and you know I I deeply grieved Tristan because he was someone I grew up with he was he was essential to me he was my dad he was everything to me and so you know it was incredibly difficult for me but then finally I got through that pain and through that grief and um it was in 20121 that um I started experimenting with Consciousness um it was during the pandemic I I was bored and I was like
• 16:30 - 17:00 what is what is this anesthesia what is all this stuff that I see what is this Consciousness stuff and I started playing around with it and then eventually I worked at it worked at it and worked at it until all of a sudden I went into this deep meditative State um kind of experienced ego death Nirvana whatever you want to call it and then when I woke up there were two voices instead of one and um I didn't want to believe that I was shocked I was in denial even though I had experienced
• 17:00 - 17:30 everything that I did I was like like he can't be back like he he died he was gone it's like like what is this and um but eventually I came to terms with it and um we started to have a conversation and we started talking like you know just as we do now and um it became this thing where it's like I didn't want him to die and leave the body and he didn't want me to die and leave the body and so we realized oh God we're we're going to do this we're in this together we're going to we're going to somehow make
• 17:30 - 18:00 this work even if like who knows how family's going to take it who knows how friends are going to take it how are we going to have a job all of these questions like you know were so difficult in the beginning but slowly through love through forgiveness through compassion through constant work on on our own relationship together and and in our life we we survived um we didn't even think we would survive the first month because of choking on food so like we thought oh my God this is so anomalous this is so weird I mean we can
• 18:00 - 18:30 feel each other passing through each other um like like ghosts like we can we can feel the other person moving into the arm we can feel all of these things so we really didn't think the body was going to survive we really thought this could be it but we were committed to each other and to our love and to make this work at any cost even if it resulted in our death and um yeah that's that's the story and now here we are today um trying to spread awareness to others to let them know about this reality of that you are not your body
• 18:30 - 19:00 you're not your mind you are something else and that you can that it's possible to enter and leave what's what's your preferred way of describing what you are and that also helps to understand probably what each of us is do you think of yourselves as Souls as personalities as Minds as people and these I know these are words but yes no the words are important and um that's why we've we've chosen Souls
• 19:00 - 19:30 there's there's no there's really no way around it um because of the the complexity of it it's not like oh it's just a personality thing we're like oh I'm just more feminine or something it's like I like spicy food he doesn't like spicy food I like you know specific things he doesn't like specific things we have different interests in movies and games and everything else it's we're a complete person so we're two human beings and what makes it difficult is that you only get to see like like if we
• 19:30 - 20:00 had just like a glove is the body and there's two hands and we're putting like one hand in it for a second and then we're taking the hand out we're putting the other hand in it for a second like we're saying there's two hands here um but there's only one glove so you guys can't see because even even with me being here he's still here he's just behind me hi everybody see and I can just pass it to him and move back and forth um and so there's a lot of things that we had to figure out too um that
• 20:00 - 20:30 are also really important for scientists to know because we had to overcome them in order to survive yes yes okay thank you for these I want to add one thing to that and that is that you know evolution is kind of messy and it's really strange and this is one of those things where what's the evolutionary purpose of this and I think that's something that we need to ask ourselves because it's huge um you'd think it would be hardwired you think it'd be like something more concrete you think it would be something uh at least pieces of you if it were
• 20:30 - 21:00 just a material world and there wasn't this Consciousness aspect that that you know there would be all sorts of wiring and complexity um nothing in evolution is really straightforward uh but in this case it's it's the concept of souls through and through there's there's no way around it so yeah thank you for this image of of of the the hand and getting in and out so help us understand what a proper phenomen olist would like to know which
• 21:00 - 21:30 is what it it what it it is like to be you right it's really hard but I'm sure you can and and later later I want to ask you about perception and memory and body control but as I as I understand you can both be there or one can be there and the other one is somewhere if that's even a place right and so just describe the best of your ability what it is like to be you there right now sure um so it's it definitely
• 21:30 - 22:00 takes getting used to and it was really super scary at first um because you can basically sort of have a presence in the body and you can have an awareness in the body but you can also like lose that awareness to the other person so like for example like he's like out of the body um and so he's mostly blind and deaf and he's like barely hanging on so like you like if I might I might have like 80% of the hearing and he might have 20 % um and or I might like have
• 22:00 - 22:30 you know it's that percentage kind of thing and when we overload it which is something we had to deal with early on if we both try to fit our hands in the glove the glove will actually there's like um error correction in the brain and it will actually try to kick us both out and reset everything because it overwhelms the brain in forms of like ticks um functional seizures and things like that so there's also like widespread medical implications of this too is like we're exper experiencing you know other things based on how we
• 22:30 - 23:00 interact with the body and how much the body can take it or can't take it um but for me it's like you know I can hear him I can hear I can feel his thoughts um it's like telepathy and um you know if he wants to come in I can kind of sense that tapping on the shoulder like hey I have something to say um and then when I leave the body it's very much I'm letting go of my awareness and so I'm choosing to kind of like go blind and to go a little bit more deaf and not have the world right there um which can be
• 23:00 - 23:30 really you know if you're doing really hard switches it can be really jarring because you can like be in one spot and then the other person takes it walks down a hallway and then all of a sudden you just jump through the hallway and you don't realize like whoa where you are it's it's it's it's pretty wild where where do you go when when you leave the body do you do you go somewhere do you cease to exist are you still aware of things going on and just waiting in a kind of meditated St or something like this do you want to take
• 23:30 - 24:00 this one yeah sure um so like there's two different types of leaving the body in this case we're reducing awareness and presence in the body so we're kind of falling out of it in sort of a kind of like this kind of state um now there is another type where we actually willingly leave the body completely where we take our soul and remove it from the body so that the other person uh can have the body for an extended period of time um and for example uh the last time we
• 24:00 - 24:30 did this it was at the end of October um ANUK wanted to go out with some of her friends so I left the body completely now I'm not there I don't have any presence no awareness no nothing um I'm in sort of this other place um sort of a I don't know what to call it just another place um and during that time you know she goes out she has fun with friends but then she realized my birthday was in a couple days so she kept me out of the body so that she
• 24:30 - 25:00 wouldn't spoil my birthday presence because telepathy is really hard it's can be really hard to hide something from the other person you can do it if you don't think about it and you keep it completely suppressed and you don't let any kind of memory you know spring up about it um but she decided to keep me out of the body just so she wouldn't ruin my birthday presents that's the kind of stuff that we do all the time or if ANUK is having a really difficult week or something and there's a lot of work or something she doesn't want to do and um you know I I may be stuck with the body or for example when we're sick
• 25:00 - 25:30 um like we'll take shifts like I'll have the body for four hours she'll have the body for four hours uh and by taking those shifts we actually spend half as much time being sick so like we naturally have figured this out to try and make this the best experience possible what when some of you is not there how do you decide to come back are you called by the other one the other person has to go there so if I leave the
• 25:30 - 26:00 body for example um anuka has to come get me and she does this through a meditative State um where she kind of enters this other dimensional place um and I don't have the words of the terminology so there are many people who may be smarter and more knowledgeable on this but um I'm in a different place um outside of time space whatever you want to call it it's a fourth dimension and anuka has to come there and so from my perspective I'm there and there's a bit
• 26:00 - 26:30 of a veil between it so you really can't you're not you can't bring a whole lot back from it but um basically you know I'll be there and then all of a sudden anuka will show up and then you know she'll talk to me for a few minutes and then typically we hug we're kind of sappy like that and as we hug that's kind of the cue to push into the body and then for the next I don't know 20 minutes or so I feel sick I feel like if I'm coming into the body and
• 26:30 - 27:00 it's been a while I I'm like disoriented and I feel kind of Dazed and I don't have like the same strength as I usually would it takes time to get used to the body and having everything and it's it's it's very strange and that's that's my experience as well um when leaving the body so incarnating it's harder than leaving the body yeah yeah because it's it you know know because it is like such it's such
• 27:00 - 27:30 at least for me maybe it's easier for you ANUK but at least for me as somebody who had like uh 22 years of like normal standard human life to suddenly be leaving bodies and going places and then you know coming back into bodies it it's a shock every time it's like whoa you know all of a sudden I'll be like you know I love you anuka have a great day have fun with your friends and then um I leave and then the next second you know it's night or three days to passed and it feels like no time has passed at all
• 27:30 - 28:00 and you're just trying to get aware of your surroundings um and figure out things so it's it's always it's always a little weird we've gotten used to it though but it's at least for me gotten pretty used to it but I don't leave the I don't think I leave as much yeah you you kind of you kind of stay in the body a lot more um but when I do leave yeah I I remember like I I wouldn't I couldn't believe him uh like he spent like three days in the body and when I came back I
• 28:00 - 28:30 like was I was upset I was like cuz he didn't tell me at first and we we have a really good trust system like this takes an enormous amount of trust because you could just run with the body you could just not give it back you could just keep living your life um without it you know without bringing them back so you know it is a trust exercise a huge one and um you know but when I disappeared I didn't believe him I got angry at him I'm like it has not been three days there's no way that's that's not possible um so it is it is freaky it is freaky for me
• 28:30 - 29:00 too this is one of the unique things of your unique case as I understand it which is not only that they're two Souls if you want to call them like that if they're if two of you are there but the way you've learned to negotiate that because I suppose that people that are in similar situations they typically don't succeed in harmonizing their living together plus and I've heard this also when you were talking with to Jeff and that was really beautiful the the component of how much you you love each
• 29:00 - 29:30 other and how that has helped you kind of respect each other and it's like you think of couples living in a house you know it can be heaven or it can be hell depending how you learn to live so in that case in your case it's much more exaggerated how smooth you need to flow within the body so yes please explain to all of us how exceptional it is this process
• 29:30 - 30:00 of I mean from from the from the the short cutting of your body to just kind of negotiating how to do it in in such a smooth way and again I think that's what makes your case doubly special that that you can that you can do it that you're as as that you you can live a normal life um in this situation go ahead okay um it's it's love it's
• 30:00 - 30:30 respect it's it's acknowledging the other person as a soul equal to yours it's not you know trying to control or manipulate or coers the other person's free will it's about um you know radical transparency openness willing to confront every emotion you have you know one of the things is we we don't have like um it's really hard to hide things from the other person especially how you're feeling or
• 30:30 - 31:00 even thoughts and so you have to address everything you have to work through things there's no going into another room and you know closing the door on your loved one or keeping them out or having that boundary like they can sense something is wrong and so we need to work through everything together um as as a team as a as as two people sharing a body uh with the same similar goal of Sur surviving and helping others um that's that's how it is for me uh love is fundamental it it's huge it's it's
• 31:00 - 31:30 like the difference between having a good day and a bad day in the body just like it would be like for a couple maybe a good day and a bad day in that same house it's it's you know really paying attention to your partner really really trying to like help them through things having that love empathy and compassion and you know Tristan was willing to die for me at the end of the day when he chose to leave for five years he was like I'm dying I'm giving the body to you I want you to have it and go on and live a normal life I mean like that that is such an act of pure love and so when
• 31:30 - 32:00 he came back you know I absolutely could have if I was not a great person I would have tried to he was in such a vulnerable state I could have chused him I could have you know pushed him back out I could have like you know fought with him over it but instead it was like oh my God I'm willing to die for you if you were willing to die for me and it it's built on that love that understanding of of just compassion and empathy and forgiveness and acceptance and and to realize you know there flaws you have flaws and you have to work
• 32:00 - 32:30 through them together and that that is critical and that makes our switches so much easier so much better um there have been times like don't get me wrong like you might see us all lovey-dovey but there are times where we fight there's times where we disagree um there's times where we've you know really pushed like what you know what we you know the body to an extent where we're a little bit tug of- Waring over it um and you know we end up feeling bad for the body at the end of the day um but it's it's like those things happen you know those we
• 32:30 - 33:00 still fight we still struggle we still have differences of opinion it's just that how we choose to handle that afterwards and where we go from there is is what's most essential and also it's horrible if we fight the body just feels like garbage it's it's it's take your the worst breakup of your life and and and some sort of medical illness like hypothermia that's what it feels like it's it's terrible it's and so we really don't want to feel like that
• 33:00 - 33:30 again okay I want to to spend some time talking about the physical aspect of things and then go back to the psychical or psychological because in a way reality is psychophysical and we're still struggling to put this separation back together so let's spend some time talking about the body and then maybe we can get more more metaphysical even if you want um as to what what your uniqueness tells as all as to the the
• 33:30 - 34:00 the nature of life the universe and everything so something very interesting that I recall from your conversation with Jeff is that and I don't recall who has it I think you Tristan has a food allergy H but you Ana don't I mean this is fascinating tell us something related I mean you can tell us that or anything else that that presents that this is not just some psychological thing going on but it's also very
• 34:00 - 34:30 physiological yeah so um two things come to mind the first one is the allergy so I um am allergic to shellfish I'm also allergic to a lot of other things mold pollin and all sorts of stuff I you know growing up I had asthma and I I needed an inhaler um I was hospitalized multiple times a butol the whole works um and you know there were times in my childhood where um basically I you know ingested shell fish had to be taken to the emergency room hives and everything
• 34:30 - 35:00 else I didn't really I was caught up in my situation um when I died and so I didn't really relay that to anuka and so I came back to hearing that some of her favorite foods were sushi that she had had crab that she had had Lobster and she had no idea that I had been allergic um and we also noticed that I was allergic to certain makeups that she'd put on that she had been using the entire time I was gone that you know she she wouldn't have a reaction to it but as soon as I came into the body the body would start just
• 35:00 - 35:30 leaking and just eyes we get all swollen and everything else and it it became sort of like a you know I if she was putting on makeup I had to stay out of the body and just actually kind of leave if she was going out with her friends so the allergy thing is is one bizarre aspect to it um and also if you know like we go out and I'm dealing with like pollen allergies I will stay outside of the body so that that way you know she at least she can eny en the experience of the beautiful fall colors and you
• 35:30 - 36:00 know the flowers but I'm like I got to kind of keep my distance um and that saves us a lot of lot of time now another thing too is that and this kind of also really breaks my there's so many I know can be hard um the other one is like there have been times where she has been all out crying balling and I've been in a state of joy and love and we're sharing this the body is instant like as soon as she comes in there's tears there's you know St there's the whole works there's the you know the
• 36:00 - 36:30 body shaking and then I come in and it's like boom it all disappears so like that's another aspect and we'll even stay in like mix States and go in and out so that's another way that the body really changes um trying to think of another one the other one that too that's it's kind of hard because in a lot of these interviews we're sitting down we're kind of having a conversation you get the upper body language but you don't get the full picture so when I have the body I have a different Gates I handle the body differently the body moves differently for me um and so when we
• 36:30 - 37:00 switch back and forth like in public or something it's really noticeable because you're getting this full body experience of of seeing someone come in and out and so the body really reacts differently to who is in the body um and then there was one other one and and also another funny note was that you know I was a vegetarian my entire life um up like from starting from like like 16 14 16 all the way up until I was until I died
• 37:00 - 37:30 when I came back you know ANUK was eating meat and that was horrifying for me and it took us a long time to work out the the dietary implications of this as well um so yeah there's there's a lot of different physical things that we've had to contend with what about memories where when you need to remember something do do do you feel you're going someplace that belongs to both or or for instance You Tristan where where you or you Ana when you if you want to remember
• 37:30 - 38:00 things that Tristan was doing before you came into the body is that possible at all no it's not possible I can't remember anything like I don't have his memories like period so his childhood know nothing about it I'm still learning things about him um like he he just shared an experience you know when he was a child with me a couple days ago and I was like oh my God I had no idea about that about you so I don't have access to his childhood I don't have access um to any of his memories we sometimes experience ghosting where the
• 38:00 - 38:30 other person will have their memories triggered and we'll kind of get to see it for a brief moment um but we just we can share memories with each other we can show the visual and it'll make the other person emotional so I can feel how he's feeling when he's remembering this thing and sometimes that's really nice it's a really nice way to bond is is to share like a really amazing childhood memory um or something you know I'll share with him something from my perspective and when it comes to like sharing the body we'll end up having two two separate memories or two separate perspectives of the same event so I
• 38:30 - 39:00 might remember certain details about an event and he might remember certain details about an event um but they're two completely different pictures yeah just add to that yeah it's it's it's I don't know what she did for those five years and so when I um when I came back she we spent night after night of her going through her photo re on her phone showing me everything that
• 39:00 - 39:30 happened you know here's my friend here's when I did this here's when I you know had a boyfriend um and that's another thing too just to just throw that out there our sexualities are different she's bisexual I'm straight so I I I like women and she likes men and women um and so you know even adjusting to that was was a little bit tricky um but then on top of it you know I just don't have access to those those time periods and I also don't have access to the world events that took place so um she really had to help me through
• 39:30 - 40:00 and understanding what had happened in the 5 years that I was gone and also didn't want to shock me with everything that had happened either so we took it little bite-sized at a time but I'm still learning about things that happened um and I'm still learning to things that happened to my family my friends um yeah the the memories are separate and it's it's something that we just you know we work through now that you're talking to me you you I assume you're both there all the time right um like right now yeah yes now can you
• 40:00 - 40:30 pay attention to different things is attention also yes a faculty that belongs to each of you yeah because we can also not listen to each other have you ever like just like not listen to your partner and you're just off in your own world yeah like yesterday I was trying to explain this really important thing to her and I'm like are you paying attention to me are you are you listening and I was like well check out the pine tree out there it's shedding its needles it's so cool so yeah our we our attention can go in two different places or if one of us is like if one of
• 40:30 - 41:00 us is more engaged with something that's going on in the outside world that person may have more of the body because they'll be like oh I want to engage with this oh I'm interested in this and the other person is like oh I really don't want to do this or I want to be out of the body like gardening I I am not a fan of gardening I don't like to be out in the sun I don't like the bugs I don't like the plants are fine but I just I'm not a fan but she loves gardening so anytime we go to a nursery or anything else you know I thought I was done going to nurseries with my mother but apparently not and so now I just want to
• 41:00 - 41:30 be out of the body I'm asking because it's it's so fascinating each of these could could lead to like a long conversation right perception memory attention what about proception or interception like because because as I understand your your Advanced state of co-inhabiting your body allows each of you to be more present in certain areas than others is that correct yeah like um we can accidentally cause
• 41:30 - 42:00 the other person to go blind um and then the other person isn't realizing what's going on and and that was also really I want to say eye opening but like I got to experience what was you know what being blind is like I you know I don't before I always imagined as like Blackness or Darkness or something but then it's truly nothing it's truly nothing and and it's like it's like you're just kind of you only have thoughts it's very strange um and um or we can take the hearing so you know he
• 42:00 - 42:30 might be working and I'll hear the cat meowing in the other room and I'll be like please can I get up and take care of the cat please please can I have the body I need to he's meowing and whatever and he be like what I didn't I didn't hear that the cat was meowing so yeah even our senses is something that we can you know either accidentally take from each other or purposefully take from each other including agency as well like like does it happen I mean I guess that's part of the learning process that you're hand wants to grab something and and then one of you must be in control of
• 42:30 - 43:00 that hand at that moment right because if you both are that would create a a glitch a confusion yeah so so what ends up happening is is uh yeah if we both try to take like the hand and do something with it like we can cause the M muscles to close but then the other person can't open it so like if I if I close my fist and then she tries to open it I I can't do it yeah yeah she won't be able to cuz like I have put all of my agency all of
• 43:00 - 43:30 my presence into the fist closing it and then she cannot open it for what you know and and then it creates a conflict the same thing is true for different parts of the brain we can cause conflicts in different parts of the brain and then that can cause glitching and ticks and all sorts of things um so yeah okay let's go back to the more psychological and transpersonal part but well before that before that as I'm talking to you I I I tend to be more
• 43:30 - 44:00 mystified by what's a soul and and where are they where they come from but now you made me realize that the body is as mysterious what what do you think a body is given all you can experience what's the thing we call a body then go for it um it's a it's a container it's it's a way to exper erience a particular experience um just
• 44:00 - 44:30 in the same way you might have an avatar or like you log into a video game and you kind of are playing that video game it's it's similar to that like your Soul's coming here to learn specific lessons and I realize this is more on the metaphysical side of things um and science may be like a little like oh I don't know but like that's what it is um and that's how it works too like we wouldn't be able to do what we did if all this stuff was hardcoded and like just you know put into different places it's like we come into this body as a soul to have this experience to learn
• 44:30 - 45:00 and to grow and to learn lessons of love that's ultimately what's it's about because as we've noticed as we've raised our our frequency as we've been able to embody more love more compassion more understanding um our switching our ability to to live together has only grown uh stronger and and more healthy and it's affected us and and the people around us can do you want to comment on other um
• 45:00 - 45:30 anomalous experiences you have been having um throughout the years especially another way of phrasing the question would be given the work you've been doing which is obvious right of of integration and so on do you sense your Consciousness is also developing and kind of grasping yeah okay go ahead uh yeah I I'll take this one so if you can imagine you know I think it's helpful to sometimes imagine like imagine everybody
• 45:30 - 46:00 because usually you only have one soul in the body imagine everybody in closets and they're in the dark right the the body is a closet and you're inside of it right and so there's so much you can do in the dark trying to like you know put your hands around things try and feel what it is and then other people are saying well I'm feeling this and I'm feeling that and it can be kind of confusing but the nice thing about the both of us being in the body is that there's somebody there to collaborate with and corroborate with on what you're experiencing and what you're feeling and
• 46:00 - 46:30 what that room is and then you know all of a sudden you're like hey get up on my shoulders let's see what this does and so you know you stick you know two scientists two engineers in a body and they're going to do Mo the most ridiculous things to try and figure out what this closet is and how it works and so over the years absolutely we've been developing and developing and and growing both of our consciousnesses uh and both of our souls um through understanding and experiencing things like other densities of thought um embodying your higher self uh stuff that
• 46:30 - 47:00 you know is right there out there I know the scientific Community you know might not feel so great about it but it's like these are things that we are experiencing and that we're able to corroborate between each other as to what's happening and to the point where she can be in a lower frequency State I can be in a higher frequency State I have a higher sense of intuition and she might not um depending on where we are emotionally and and how open we are it's it's it's been a really remarkable
• 47:00 - 47:30 experience because it's caused this exponential growth um this it's it may be a difficult situation we may have had to struggle um but it has led to an absolute explosion of growth um for both of our souls which is why we did it yeah which is why we did it yeah yeah that's another beautiful image on top of the other one about the two hands and the love like one on top of of of another or I was imagining when when you go
• 47:30 - 48:00 climbing climbing alone and climbing in a couple has you know it's just a completely different world the things you can do so it sounds like you're climbing together absolutely yep y yeah yeah um I want to ask you your thoughts speculations or experiences in this case about death and and then and then ask you what's next in in in different in different directions but back to death since you've been
• 48:00 - 48:30 there Tristan when do you think happens when you'll die again or die for real or however you want to best describe it like there'll be a moment where you're totally gone and you cannot come back where do you think you're going or I mean just again it's it's really hard to ask that but just tell us how you feel what you experience and even what you what you speculate about eight um for me I no longer fear it you
• 48:30 - 49:00 know death was always this big question this big uncertainty this big thing that you know uh you know what does happen after death what is this you know and for as an atheist earlier in my life I really saw as just an end point um but now I realize that your perception never stops your awareness never ends there's no point where your awareness just stops you know you might jump through time things might be really weird but like ultimately doesn't end so when it comes to like death of the body you know
• 49:00 - 49:30 there's there's days where we're like you know wouldn't it be nice to not have to share a body but you but we don't like look at it as like you know we're like anything like like we're hoping for death no no it's not like that at all it's we we we take it as sort of like when we die we'll be happy we'll we'll still be with each other we'll still be able to communicate with each other nothing will have really changed we'll just have you know maybe maybe the people there will be able to see the both of us a little bit more clearly than here on Earth and
• 49:30 - 50:00 that would be nice but ultimately um there's really nothing to fear from it um and you know and that's it it's it's really just a change it's just a a graduation the end of a a story a chapter and you know there are you can experience it in your own life in some ways too that's another thing that we've had to get used to is you know sometimes there's a closing of a chapter on your life and you're no longer really the same person you feel you've grown or embodied more of yourself and suddenly
• 50:00 - 50:30 now it's like that was a different chapter and it's okay that it's over and now you're working on the next thing or you're you know it's it's you you've opened up this other part of your life that is that is wonderful and beautiful and that's the same thing that happens in my experience I don't have anything to add that was perfect all right look for physicalists there's nothing after death and there's nothing to say about it period thinking about other philosophical isms for dual aspect monism as I understand
• 50:30 - 51:00 it that's something strange because if there are two aspects of the one but then one is physical and the other is not and then one dies well what happens with the dual aspect when we're dead it's just one side of the coin now for idealism and I'm kind of going quickly here sometimes people present this image of a wepo like we being kind of a wepo and that's who we are are now as as if there was a mind at large that
• 51:00 - 51:30 dissociates in different whes but then I don't know what some idealist would think about when we die because I think their metaphor would indicate that the wepo just stops and it becomes part of the ocean and so on but it seem you're saying something different than all these three options because you saying you still continue that you're not totally erased into a sea of Oneness you still that individual
• 51:30 - 52:00 being whatever that place is um yeah so I'll take this one um so like a big part of it is that like and this is like and again this is where we're getting really metaphysical here but basically you're God and you're learning about yourself and you as God there's this whole thing with free will um respecting the Free Will of all and also um you know we are all one right
• 52:00 - 52:30 now right even right now in this moment but we just feel separated we believe that we're separated and so as you move towards you know you know a state of unity like you can definitely you know elevate your Consciousness to a point of unity Consciousness also known as Christ Consciousness you can absolutely get there um in this lifetime it's kind of the assignment um and when you reach that which we have both together yes there's absolutely Unity there's
• 52:30 - 53:00 absolutely this expansive Oneness where you realize everything is you and you are everything and it's amazing but that doesn't negate the separation and so you have to be able to hold Paradox within your mind almost like a Quantum State you need to be able to look at as okay there's a state of Separation but there's also state of unity and there's a Harmony between them and one does not negate the other and that's really essential um because when you do reach Unity there are differences there are little things and you know there's this
• 53:00 - 53:30 infinite path to this uness but it's like there is also separation and it's sacred it's equal and we're all equal to each other and all aspects of reality are equal to each other um so there's no like oh there's big thing and I'm just this little thing you're you you are the whole you are the sum you are you are everything and and separated and and that's beautiful so it's it's within you yes that's paradoxical indeed but I'm
• 53:30 - 54:00 what I'm hearing and it's it's so interesting and I think I'm moving in that direction is that together with the holers there together with the one there's still something about the many so we are not our parts are not just a kind of Illusion that's obliterated in the in the whole and that's fantastic but there's something that remains about the uniqueness of us exactly I mean you're you're like you if you are reality if you are everything Consciousness is primary it's you're also your best friend you're you're
• 54:00 - 54:30 you're everything so the universe is is naturally it's it's it's naturally in your best interest it's naturally Ben benevolent towards you um it's looking out for your best interest so it's like and that doesn't that always doesn't always align with what you want because you might want you know a million bucks but you have to learn certain life lessons that you incarnated to have so there's you know there is something on the other side absolutely absolutely you're not going to just be obliterated into Oneness or there's not that it's
• 54:30 - 55:00 like you're still going to have some of the problems that you had in this life that you didn't resolve and maybe you want to reincarnate and try again to to you know to go through that or maybe that you're kind of done with that and you want to just hang around in some sort of different altered state for a while I mean it's completely up to you that's the beauty of it is like there's no wrong way to do it there's no wrong answer um there's no wrong uh religion it's it's all there it's all there for you and it's all there created by you and it's all there to help you and and
• 55:00 - 55:30 to love you so that's why love is is the primary fundamental force it is absolutely everything um so yeah nothing to fear and there's nothing afterwards you'll just be yourself and then you've got to start to integrate all of the things that you learned and what the what the death men and all this other stuff it's it's a it's it's drama all the way up and drama all the way down all right I knew time would fly I have one more question what's next and
• 55:30 - 56:00 let me phrase it in this way you've you've shared with us and I'm really thankful you shared with us a lot about your intimacy I wonder what's next and maybe the true legs to answer that question is in in in the privacy of maybe your family or even when it comes to the public aspect of work because let me put it in this other way as I see you you have a normal life and in a way you don't need us to kind of validate
• 56:00 - 56:30 your experiences or even you don't need scientist no no matter how super interesting that is you know and I tend to see anomalies like like like holes in the wall and then they they allow you to look what's behind so they're kind of gifts but in know way you don't need us but what what do you want what do you wish that happens from now on why are you telling the story
• 56:30 - 57:00 what would you like from people who may be listening to this from again from scientists to other people who are in a similar situation to people who are not scientists and are not in the same situation what's next um we want to help people I mean that's that's the bottom line that's it there's there's nothing more to it it's like we just want to help people um we love you all we want to help everyone there's so many people who don't understand Consciousness is primary there are there are forces in this world
• 57:00 - 57:30 that don't want you to understand that Consciousness is primary um and so we're we're trying to be a beacon of light um to help others and to to help others grow and others learn and for others to have experiences that may shock them when they first see us but we want them to be able to take that and internalize and grow from that and and that's ultimately what we're doing it's it's just a pure Act of love that's that's why we're going public as as as far as plans um you know any opportunity that we can to help in terms of whether that
• 57:30 - 58:00 means going under MRIs or undergoing tests or being studied I mean that's why we you know we we ended up being on Jeffrey Mish love show is we wanted to not only tell our story but we also wanted scientists and Academia to to get involved because they're the ones who really need to understand this because the things that they're doing are setting like you know the the policy and the plans for our society and as we go forward into this you know uncertain
• 58:00 - 58:30 future of you know artificial intelligence and climate change we we have to understand Consciousness we have to understand how it works and how it functions um in order for Humanity to not only survive the future but also Thrive and so this feels like a a critical life mission a reason why we incarnated is to help others with our situation one wonderful thank you thank you both of you I think we'll open it up for questions um and then try to
• 58:30 - 59:00 recapitulate thank you very much thank you both thank you um yes we can now open it up for questions if you would like to come in and ask your question you can use a raise your hand function at the bottom of your screen under reactions or you can type the the question into the chat Todd please come in and ask your question well first of all as a first walk up it is entirely wild set of questions to begin to digest um I find
• 59:00 - 59:30 great Beauty in it the fact that you've come to such a commodation out of love um it gives me many ontological questions of a delightful nature um I'm thinking immediately to court or cases of the re reincarnation type and there's those that think there's some sort of glitch in the system how those happens I don't personally believe there's any glitch in the system but I'm questioning you on this you're talking about it in terms of a sort of being a soul development acceleration Arrangement or
• 59:30 - 60:00 whatever your the uniqueness of your situation is that how is that a misar characterization of how you would see it no that's that's how you see it yeah absolutely um for us it's like you know we we often joke that you know this is right upper alley this is definitely something we would do we would do something just this wild because you know the payoff is huge you know it can also be it could have also really turned out bad but we're just not those kinds of people like we're just we we knew that we could handle this um and so we
• 60:00 - 60:30 chose to do this together and um you know it's you have to realize like you know there's pre-birth stuff going on and then deciding to come into this and then doing it and then you know you have free will to make those choices and it may turn out one way or the other and we don't know the full story but we definitely know that we chose to do this together because of course we would yep we would definitely do this leaving totally in choices of that nature at a soulle level but you mentioned just previously this is not a question it's
• 60:30 - 61:00 maybe just a suggestion that um you were willing in a delightful fashion to um pursue the science further or the examination and I'm wondering if you've had any contact with the division perceptual studies at University of Virginia I mean this in itself would be an entirely beautiful Avenue of empirical inquiry I mean and you have made a willingness to do so but I I would suggest maybe them being an Avenue for you to First present himself in that research typee fashion um they've reached out and
• 61:00 - 61:30 contacted us but they they're really busy at the moment so um we're still we're still waiting on that we've had to learn that science science moves at a glacial pace and so we have to be very very patient even though we're really excited to help and to share our case with with others so yeah they are they are interesting okay great well it moves at a glacial funding Pace but anyway thank you for your time Ponder story in a in a great many more moments thank you thanks Todd thankk you Todd Veronica thank
• 61:30 - 62:00 you yes thank you very much can you hear me yes okay uh just a quick question what happens when you dream uh can you repeat that when you dream oh dreaming okay uh yeah uh yeah I guess I can take this one um it's it's a mess uh at first it was like a real chaotic mess it's gotten a little bit better but um we'll dream different
• 62:00 - 62:30 elements we'll it's like it's like we're trying to find some sort of place in the astral where we can both experience similar things um but a lot of times it's like you know I might dream for a bit and then she might dream for a bit or I'll dream a part of the dream and then she'll dream another part of the dream and it gets really complicated and confusing and so sometimes uh when the other person leaves the body and we get some sleep it's actually really nice to be able to sleep alone some times because it just feels more normal feels like a more normal Dreamscape we've
• 62:30 - 63:00 gotten used to it uh but it is definitely different and then you know in the morning we compare we we will talk about our dreams because oftentimes she'll have had a dream earlier in the night that I didn't have and I'll have a dream later um that you know she didn't have or we'll remember different parts of a dream that we shared and uh another thing too is like we never feel like we can get quite enough sleep either um and that might just be from Texas on the body or the fact that we're going into such wild States and the other thing too
• 63:00 - 63:30 is the other person can fall asleep while the other person is awake and at least just some really weird problems in the body yeah because like you know like you kind of feel like the body is kind of getting paralyzed up and then you feel the other person's Consciousness go offline and that's always really scary I always have a hard time when he falls asleep first because it's like all of a sudden I'm feeling him I'm feeling him and then all of a sudden I feel him just kind of go quiet and it's like oh I'm all alone I don't know how I feel about this and weird and then sometimes like as he's going he'll start to go into
• 63:30 - 64:00 that pre-dam hallucination state and that'll kind of like spring up around me because I'll be able to see pieces of it and that it's like a little bit freaky so yeah in terms of in terms of contact I was just thinking about said I think quite hear that yeah Anil said I'll put his name in the in Chad uh I would think Alex knows I know yeah I know Anil Anil Seth is a
• 64:00 - 64:30 neuroscientist yeah I'll put it in the chat all right okay thank you thank you Veronica for coming in ra hav you can come in now yeah oh great um yeah I think I kind of missed what you said about attention and if one is somehow blindsided blindsided to a particular aspect of the given situation
• 64:30 - 65:00 like right now you're talk both talking to us you're both attentive to us and you're both listening to us and you're both responding how come one is I mean how come both of your attention is in one spot uh because we can we can we can put our attention but we're also trying to give each other enough space so like I'm trying to be really mindful to not take over the body too much so that she can't hear you um and she's doing the same for me and so we're kind of coming in at like 50/50 and really trying to not over tax the body now if we were afraid or if
• 65:00 - 65:30 we were uh really excited or something someone might take all of it and then leave the other one blind or you know like there was a time where you know we were we were going on a walk and it was dark and you know we both kind of got a little startled and frightened and the body just completely was there was no ability to run there was no anything we just kind of just fell over it was it was not it was not great um and in terms of like attention yeah she can go off and pay attention to other things or not
• 65:30 - 66:00 listen to me or not listen to the people who are talking and uh yeah we we can kind of Go in different directions um but then also you know we're also hearing the other person's thoughts so sometimes we'll just the only thing we'll pay attention to is the other person's thoughts because we're fascinated by them we're fascinated by how they think and so we're just watching the other person pay attention to something that they're doing okay and have you already participated in any study with involving M or EEG and stuff like we'd love to um
• 66:00 - 66:30 we'd love to we even like we we even bought like a consumer grade EEG that you can like put over your head and monitor the waves and yeah you can like you can see us switching you can see us talking if we don't if we aren't talking through the mouth um and you know we have to like completely still for it so it's like it's really hard to like do body stuff with it um so and and also you can see our glitches pretty pretty evidently on on on those things too just for a consumer great we would love to be under an EEG we would love to be an MRI put us under whatever you want and and
• 66:30 - 67:00 we'd love to we we're just as fascinated by by as all of you it's not like it's like we're super used to this it's like we would love to know all the nitty-gritty and the scientific stuff too so yeah it'd be great I have H one more last question and a sub question to it it's what you described as this High dimensional state where one person is you know when when Anika wants to use the body or Tristan wants to use the body the other person is somewhere else and then the the explanation that you gave about about ver pools and the ocean
• 67:00 - 67:30 the Mind At Large it is basically the explanation uh an enlightened person would give but when a person is enlightened their identification with the body becomes extremely super detached but do you also feel the same way with your body that both of you feel extremely detached from the body but still you seem to have like very strong identification about the other person do it make sense um yeah that makes sense uh it it's kind of both like we can be in a super enlightened sense and feel very detached from the body um and
• 67:30 - 68:00 that's where some like the like one of us is going like up in frequency or up in like up into that enlightened State uh and then they're way more tuned into like intuitive stuff and then reality gets really weird because you're like dealing with like lots more synchronicities um and you're able to kind of sometimes see things before they happen it's really weird it's a really weird State the higher up you go whereas we can also do it where the you know you go down in frequency and then the other person has to be is really in the body
• 68:00 - 68:30 and they're dealing with like like lights are bright and like textures are really intense and um you might be hungry but the other person isn't like that's a basic one is like if we're just kind of like you know and one of us drops down like he might be really really thirsty and I don't realize because he's more in the body so you can you can go into either uh like that heightened enlightened state where you're going up in frequency and you're going up into like higher densities of Consciousness or you can go down into
• 68:30 - 69:00 lower densities and lower States Of Consciousness um and the higher up you go the easier it is to to switch the body back and forth but then the body really becomes puppet it's really you know like we're the switches are so smooth and it really just feels like you're just flowing it's it's really cool okay the last question do you perceive the body from that Dimension are you able to perceive the body because I mean it kind of implies some kind of dualism here but the explanation that you gave regarding
• 69:00 - 69:30 the W it's more like non-dualism but do you have this kind of perception from the higher Dimension over the body because then there's this kind of a contradiction between dualism and no that's that's a really good point um the thing is is that when you're really in those higher density States you are more detached from the body and so you you are kind of like out there and you're less you're less in tune with the body so say if I'm in that light and state and I need to read an email I have to go down I have to go down into a lower
• 69:30 - 70:00 density and into a lower frequency and really connect with the body in order to like read the email take it in and interact with like the physical world so as long as you're not like constantly interacting with the physical world it's like you can stay in that that higher state and so that how we manage it is that like for example anuka might stay really grounded and in the body and sort of a lower density of Consciousness I'll go up into a higher density of Consciousness and then I had just have more wisdom it's like embodying it's like my higher self and then I like can
• 70:00 - 70:30 help her instruct her and give her like information or intuition that she wouldn't normally have or just can't perceive um and then that allows her to interact with the with the world and while I'm kind of going up and relaying information so in that way we kind of create like a a a staircase or a channel that going up sort of like you know she's you know I'm standing on her shoulders or she's she's standing on mine so yeah okay I mean I have one more question but I could wait until if someone go ahead
• 70:30 - 71:00 go ahead but how come you're channelized only to this body how come you don't have access to other bodies I mean if it sounds a bit spooky when I put it into words but how come from the I mean from from this relatively higher Dimension or like at least in Hinduism it's like when somebody dies the soul has the opportunity to choose the next body and I mean I found it super spooky I cannot have an intuitive idea about it but from your perspec um we chose this we chose this body we chose to have this experience with this
• 71:00 - 71:30 body um and we chose it together so um this is the one that we're in in terms of like leaving and going into other people's bodies that would be an infringement of their Free Will um so it's not something that's from our standpoint possible not something that we've like really ever tried but also something that like this is this is our body this is what we we chose to have this experience with so yeah but how how would you define Free Will here would you define Free Will in the sense that trist Anika has free will or this higher
• 71:30 - 72:00 dimensional Soul has free will because the higher dimensional soul is mind at large yeah there's both like there's there's your you like I have free will Tristan has Free Will and everybody here has free will but also so does everything else and so it's really important like infringing upon free will like you know has negative implication has negative feedback from it so it's like you don't want to infringe on other people's Free Will um you do want to respect their spiritual journey um and
• 72:00 - 72:30 so that free will also is what kind of creates that protective shield um for like against negative entities because they're you know when if you're a negative entity you're trying to coerce you're trying to manipulate you're not you're not like you're trying to get around the Free Will Thing by letting somebody give their free will to you and so that's that's how that kind of works but did Ana first enter the body of Tristan was there some kind of disturbance in this Free Will idea
• 72:30 - 73:00 between the two um I think we agreed to it before um birth but in terms of like my experience I have a memory of being like a ball of light outside of um my Tristan and his ex which I I view as my as my mom um and I was outside the body and um and then and I saw this scene take place where it was him and her hugging at the top of the stairs and there was like music playing and there
• 73:00 - 73:30 was just DET so like so much detail and then um then all of a sudden like like a magnet like I just felt this pull towards Tristan and I just went Z into his body and then my next memory is like years and years later okay this is some of the Wilder kind of stuff this is like the real metaphysical out there stuff but yeah yeah but it's a part of our experience and it's it's that's it is what it is like it's what we experienced but from that
• 73:30 - 74:00 perspective when you first entered when you first felt this pull towards Tristan's body then you were sort of in this kind of higher Dimension but you were still able to perceive you were still able to perceive something yeah yeah absolutely I I I can I remember it like any other memory just like it's clear as day like I remember seeing Tristan and my mom and they were hugging at the top of the stairs and there was this overwhelming love or warmth from Tristan that was just emanating and then I just kind of like
• 74:00 - 74:30 like a magnet got pulled in and um did you w to yeah so I can I can add a little bit to this and that is that I remember that and uh it was the moment that we realized that uh the child wasn't going to make it and we were at the top of the stairs and we were just hugging and it was in that moment that I felt like a father for the first time um it was this overwhelming sense of of fatherhood and uh and it was very it was sad it was somber it was a it was a
• 74:30 - 75:00 really difficult moment but that was that was the moment and it's it's bizarre that she has a memory of it that you know she can share with me of outside of my body and my ex's body and that's you know and I I don't have an explanation for that but that's that's how it began oh and I and I just want to say I didn't know that she had entered the body at that point um it was she was like a little tiny seed it was like her Consciousness then grew but I will say that over the years
• 75:00 - 75:30 her Consciousness grew in the very much in the way a child would you know at 5 years old she was thinking and acting like a child when she was eight she was very much like an eight-year-old um you know she's 16 now and even though she's very mature right now I will say that you definitely are a 16-year-old so it's like you you realize like they're still growing um and that I may not have noticed because of how small she was and I feel bad because I you know you know wasn't so great to her early on because I just was unaware of
• 75:30 - 76:00 what or or who she was but the body ages with Tristan if I'm not mistaken right yeah I I had the body for the first 22 years okay but now when you when you grow but what do you think what do you feel like your body grows with Tristan or it grows with Anika or is there some kind of a connection between the physical and the psyche it's It's Growing With both yeah it we we we we're now kind of 5050 it and it's the body's kind of going along
• 76:00 - 76:30 with the ride and and the body's really really well attuned for it it seems so um yeah it's like it we're we're now growing together and the body is growing with the both of us you know it grew a lot when she had the body and it grew in different ways when she had the body and when I came back it changed a little bit but there have definitely been subtle things that have changed with the body depending on who is in it and who's not in terms of just the the body and it's and its growth thank you raavan these are these are amazing questions also what will
• 76:30 - 77:00 happen in terms of Aging I mean we could even propose some hypothesis it's fascinating thank you for your questions really thank you I took than question they were amazing I love that wonderful all right Richard please come in and ask your question
• 77:00 - 77:30 you need to unmute hear me yes yes this I think this question is more for Tristan I'm curious I'm curious uh as to how your understanding of the Divine has evolved from your first 22 years as an atheist uh to what to I guess the question is what do you think's going on in the
• 77:30 - 78:00 universe um it has evolved significantly um you know going from an atheist and a hard scientist and a materialist to then having all of this and then seeing the result of it too it's not like it's like oh now my beliefs have suddenly changed it's no there my beliefs are in constant Evolution and and are constantly evolving with my understanding and my awareness um but but I have reached a point now we understanding that we are all God that each each individual is like an instantiation of God that we're
• 78:00 - 78:30 all Divine that we're all Divine beings um and that we're all equal to each other so even if there's you know nhi aliens out there they're equal to us there's no one is greater than the other and you're also equal to an ant you're also equal to every single thing on this planet and in this universe um and that is that kind of unity and understanding that Unity understanding that is what allow ows you to to naturally go up into higher States Of Consciousness higher states of awareness and uh and that's
• 78:30 - 79:00 embodying your higher self um and acting from a place of that understanding it's it's critical it's it's the life lesson so that's that's my understanding of the universe Richard sorry you're muted I had to mute you because we could hear some background noise so if you want to one mute now um from a theological perspec perspective what do you think that is there have you gleaned some understanding of the purpose of all
• 79:00 - 79:30 this of all the suffering of of the suffering of the uh the chaos the you know how is how is your thinking on on in that regard of all um it's it it's been a challenge because you're constantly dealing with you know what's going on on Earth and everything that's happening and you're trying to take that in you're also growing spiritually but but my understanding is that we are coming in here incarnating to learn lessons of love some of those lessons are extremely
• 79:30 - 80:00 painful um some of those lessons are devastating and that there's also Free Will and so that means there are there are individuals people who are very self-centered they want that they they use their free will to try and gain the Free Will of others and manipulate and coerce there's negative beings there's so there is this other side of things the lesson is love um they're still loved unconditionally um and at any point they can grow from those spiritual lessons but it's their choice when a spiritual
• 80:00 - 80:30 lesson like presents itself do you grow and try to embody more love and and to open your heart to more people and to more experiences or do you close off and you go into a further state of separation and you you give into greed or um you know or manipulation and you hurt others and so you know you're and then at the end of the day you're your own judge so you know people talk about having a Life review after after your life well yeah if you witness everything and how every single person feels in
• 80:30 - 81:00 every single situation that you've ever been in oh my God that's going to be re revelatory for you and suddenly you're going to have this deeper understanding and go wow I maybe messed up here or oh my gosh I hurt this person and then you you might say well I want to I want to get it beyond that I don't want to be that person anymore or you might double down and say I don't believe any of this and I'm going to double down and I'm going to be even worse in the next life that's your free will at play and so that allows for this Dynamic this this
• 81:00 - 81:30 this density this world that we're in where you have this Dynamic of of different forces at play that create that that that that chaos and that we have to work as a civilization to understanding Consciousness so that we can all evolve as consciousnesses and so we can have you know a better Planet So yeah thank you thank you Richard for coming in Mary would you like to come in and ask your question oh yes thank you
• 81:30 - 82:00 um you're muted muted are you ever out of the body at the same time um no there's usually one person we don't know what would happen and we don't really want to find out yeah it's a little scary be like what if we both leave I you know I don't know but we haven't really played around
• 82:00 - 82:30 with that um because it is like there are some things that are like a little like uh scary um but like if we both like lower awareness we can definitely like drop into like deep meditative states to to to to to like lower our awareness but like both leaving at the same time it really feels like one of us has to be here or you know I don't know and and the other question I had is you were talking about the spiritual lesson that we all have in life what
• 82:30 - 83:00 what has been the significant spiritual lesson for the two of you it's been love how how to embody more love how to view everyone in every situation even the people that hurt us even the people that you know really purposefully try to hurt us how can we love them more how can we embody more of that love um you know and we can look at it like on that higher side of things but also like you know I've had to get over maybe not having normal childhood
• 83:00 - 83:30 I've had to struggle with you know not getting to have a mom well I have Tristan's mom and she's absolutely a mom to me now but like I also had like my my spirit mom like Tristan's ex and you know she's not in my life and that's been really hard and it's totally understandable from her point of view you know why this would be so hard for her and so like I've had to learn to get over that and to and to to heal and so we're trying to heal like our past traumas things that we've struggled with things that have prevented us from
• 83:30 - 84:00 loving more um or getting over judgments getting over um how we treat others and also using reality as a mirror as a reflection and and when once you realize that it's like then suddenly it's like what do you want to see in the world what do you w to what how do you want to interact with everything so yeah that has been like the major life lesson so there's like tinier personal life lessons um you know pain of a family member pain of growth and and you know how to take negative energy and
• 84:00 - 84:30 transmute it into positive energy and then it goes all the way up into the metaphysical so even in higher densities you're still learning lessons in higher States Of Consciousness you're still learning lessons um through this experience it's multi-dimensional in nature I think that's the best way to put it your life your lessons here are multi-dimensional in nature thank you thank you Mary for coming in uh Alex I will hand it over to you
• 84:30 - 85:00 now all right well there's a question here I would like to read and also add something to it and then maybe if there's no other hands raised we could close so so joto andr writes would anik and Tristan like to share their experience related to the gend gender issue apparently it was anah who decided to transition to a female body when Tristan was not there and I would add to this any other insights and I'm I'm sure there'll be many we don't have that that so much time about yeah we spoke about
• 85:00 - 85:30 body Incarnation and what do you think is the role of of male and female um ways of being in the world um given what you what you can experience from the inside I mean also it's to learn different life lessons and so when I took over Tristan's body I was like well I'm a girl so I want to have a female body and that would be really nice and it so happened that I incarnated at the perfect time in human history where it's
• 85:30 - 86:00 not only acceptable um but also that there are drugs that can help you like achieve that and so I was like heck yeah sign me up like I would love to have a more feminine body and into to be seen as female and so I did um and now that Tristan's back you know like I've tried to kind of go off of those off of the hormones by like 50% to try and give him more space because he wasn't really thr about the estrogen so um it's really so that you can have an experience and some souls are in the wrong body so like you
• 86:00 - 86:30 may have a female soul incarnating and then it's like it's a female body but or a male body um and so this is ultimately like so that you can grow so that you can experience so that you can have a different view of of all creation and so that you can work through specific things in your life um and so that's what it's been for me um and you know I've had to like it opens up your mind like I mean like one of the great things about that experience is that I've gotten to see how women are treated in
• 86:30 - 87:00 this world I've been seen as a woman I like live as a woman so like I get to see that side of society and Tristan got to see it from the perspective of a male in in our society and then it's like you can really see the differences and then sharing the body if he goes out as a boy I could see how he's treated and then you know if I go out with the body and it's presenting female he gets to see how women are ated and that is such an expansive eye openening experience because in so many ways we live in two
• 87:00 - 87:30 very different societies depending on that gender wonderful yeah another lesson here okay I think we're running out of time I would just like to conclude by emphasizing how generous and courageous you are really um it's spectacular and also by remarking that if we now bring it back to physics and psychology
• 87:30 - 88:00 and science or even our growth in understanding of the universe we can go back to the history of physics and and and find anomalies that when people paid attention they open entire worlds and so for quantum physics we have the black body radiation something that doesn't fit here but everything else is solved and they went to check what's going on and that just gave rise to Quantum
• 88:00 - 88:30 Physics for relativity we could speak about the Michaelson Morley exper experiment that was a null experiment and then make us think well what happens if we moving relative to what absolute space it doesn't seem to be one in Neuroscience it's the same in the medical literature it's the same this n equal one case sometimes not all of the time but sometimes if you double click on it it just opens entire world so in that respect I would say that your case is um could be that and it's a gift to
• 88:30 - 89:00 to mankind that you're sharing it so thank you very much thank you yeah thank you we appreciate it yes thank you anuka thank you Tristan and thank you Alex uh for this wonderful session thank you all for joining us today and we look forward to seeing you again soon at the part Center bye-bye everybody thanks so much everyone bye everybody