The Palestinian Buddhist Arrested by ICE

Summary

Highlights

• Mosen Madawi's arrest shocks many, as he was merely attending a naturalization interview when detained by ICE. 🚨
• Madawi is known for his efforts in creating a bridge between Palestinian and Israeli students at Colombia University through peaceful dialogue. 🌉
• Mikey Barat, an Israeli study mate, shares insights into Madawi's character, describing him as a true pacifist and advocate for coexistence. 🕊️
• Barat emphasizes the necessity of standing up for Madawi, highlighting the injustice of using immigration laws to silence peaceful activists. 🚩
• This incident underscores the importance of dialogue and understanding in resolving long-standing conflicts between communities. 🗝️

Key Takeaways

• Mosen Madawi, a Palestinian student, was arrested by ICE under controversial circumstances, stirring debates on immigration and free speech in the US.🛂
• Madawi has played a significant role in fostering dialogue between Palestinian and Israeli students, promoting mutual understanding and peaceful coexistence.🤝
• Despite his arrest, Madawi remains a symbol of resilience and peace, bolstered by his Buddhist beliefs and his commitment to non-violence.🧘‍♂️
• Madawi's Israeli friend, Mikey Barat, supports his quest for peace and urges the global community to recognize such individuals who are pivotal in conflict resolution.🗣️
• The arrest has ignited conversations internationally, with supporters advocating for justice and highlighting the arbitrary use of immigration laws against peaceful activists.⚖️

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 10:00: Mosen Madawi's Arrest Just a few days ago, on April 14th, Mosen Madawi, a Palestinian student and long-term US resident, was arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agents at the US Citizenship and Immigration Services Office in Colchester, Vermont. Despite having a green card since 2015 and arriving at the office to complete his naturalization interview, a significant step toward US citizenship, he was instead detained by ICE officers, some with covered faces, and taken away. The Trump administration's attempts to move him to a jurisdiction with a more favorable judge were interrupted.
• 10:00 - 20:00: Building Bridges The chapter "Building Bridges" centers around a philosophy student at Columbia University, who is on the verge of graduating and has been accepted into a master's program at Columbia School of International and Public Affairs. Notably, the student co-founded the Palestinian Student Union and was recognized for organizing peaceful protests. He is commended on campus for creating dialogue systems between Palestinian and Israeli students, fostering communication and understanding. Despite his efforts for peace and mutual understanding, his status was revoked not due to any criminal activity, but because of his speech, highlighting issues of freedom of speech and academic freedom.
• 20:00 - 30:00: Activism and Advocacy The chapter titled 'Activism and Advocacy' involves a dialogue with Mikey Barat, a recent graduate in international affairs from Colombia. The conversation was set up through a networking connection on Blue Sky, where someone introduced the interviewer to Mikey via his former improv teacher. Despite being on a vacation in Vietnam, Mikey is available for a discussion.
• 30:00 - 40:00: Hopes for the Future The chapter titled 'Hopes for the Future' recounts the narrator's decision to reward themselves with a four-month travel adventure across Asia following their graduation in December. The journey is depicted as an escape, but the narrator reflects on how certain aspects of life continue to follow them regardless of location. An anecdote is shared about 'him,' someone known to the narrator, who is reportedly in good spirits despite unspecified circumstances, providing a nuanced backdrop of hope and resilience against challenging times.

The Palestinian Buddhist Arrested by ICE Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 just a few days ago on April 14th Mosen Madawi a Palestinian student and long-term US resident was arrested by Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agents at the US Citizenship and Immigration Services Office in Colchester Vermont He had had a green card since 2015 and arrived at the office expecting to complete his naturalization interview which is a significant step toward US citizenship Instead he was detained by ICE officers some of whom had their faces covered and he was taken somewhere But the Trump administration's attempts to move him to a jurisdiction with a more friendly judge was interrupted Madawi a
• 00:30 - 01:00 philosophy student at Colombia University was set to graduate in May and had been accepted into a master's program at Colombia School of International and Public Affairs He co-founded the Palestinian Student Union at Colombia and was known for organizing peaceful protests He was also known on campus as a person who was building systems for Palestinians and Israeli students to come together and actually talk with each other Mosa Madawi has not been accused of a crime Instead his status has been revoked because of his speech And when I read about this there
• 01:00 - 01:30 was a quote in the article from one of the Israelis that Mosen had reached out to to have these dialogues His name is Mikey Barat a recent graduate of Colombia with a masters in international affairs And I thought it might be interesting to talk to Mikey Barat So I asked on Blue Sky if anybody could put me in touch with him And amazingly I got an email from his old improv teacher introducing us So here we are Mikey on short notice on your vacation Hi Hi Good to talk to you Where do we find you I am in I'm in Vietnam at the moment I uh
• 01:30 - 02:00 decided to treat myself for four months of travel in Asia Some some could say an escape um after graduating in December And uh but uh you know things follow you Things follow you So how how are you How you doing It's just strange times you know uh from from what I've heard through the grapevine uh through his lawyer is that he's he's in good spirits He's doing all right You know this isn't um you know one could say this isn't
• 02:00 - 02:30 ideal but uh when he and I spoke a few weeks ago he you know was taking precautions He knew this was a possibility I think he was emotionally preparing himself I did see he had done that interview with CBS where you know he knew this was a possibility you know well the one thing I will say about is that uh he's uh you know I don't know how much you know about his backstory but he's been through uh he's been through hell in his life and he's one of the most resilient human beings I've ever met Um like this is far from the
• 02:30 - 03:00 worst thing that's happened to him He has survived much worse He's super resilient He's a long time practicing Buddhist So he's I am like finding comfort in knowing that he's uh in his strength Did you know who Mosen was before you became friends No not at all So I a little bit of back background on me So I'm originally from Israel moved to the States when I was 12 I'm a dual citizen Um and I went to Colombia to do a masters in international affairs and
• 03:00 - 03:30 international security policy and conflict resolution I after October 7th um like all Israelis um was in a lot of pain um but I found that the level of dialogue on Colombia's campus sure in the country at large was lacking uh on both sides Um and so I out of curiosity uh went into the encampment and was talking to people in the camp talking to other Palestinians or or those non-P
• 03:30 - 04:00 Palestinians just about their experience trying to share my experience and uh you know as many things do at the moment it felt kind of fruitless Um and then I mean it it did it did it feel I I don't know that I would have had the courage to do that personally I grew up during the inifat in Israel I grew up kind of in a war zone if you will Uh so some people like yelling things and holding up signs doesn't really sure that's that's not danger to me I think I think
• 04:00 - 04:30 we've we've kind of corrupted um the use of the word in in many elements kind of corrupted the use of the words like uncomfortable to mean unsafe and I think the two things are different So no at no point I didn't feel scared I mean it was it was weird I often I don't know about you avoid situations where I even feel uncomfortable Um Oh but I guess I guess you are in international affairs in conflict resolution So maybe I I think I I think
• 04:30 - 05:00 I uh I think I might have a bit of an addiction to being uncomfortable Okay that's good We need people like you I'm glad I'm glad it has some use Um but long story short basically months later uh people who I talked to in during those months contacted me like hey so you had gone in and had these conversations you felt gone and had conversations I felt like I mean I felt like I had learned I felt like I had you know stretched my dialogue muscles but like but you hadn't saved the world if you
• 05:00 - 05:30 hadn't definitely not no yet we're working on it um but we are working on it because in uh September one of two of those people text me and they're like Okay Um would there someone who was a leader in the movement who is looking to talk to Israelis specifically who wants to find someone um who has worked who is like studied international affairs and security and who are interested in dialogue and we thought of you like would you be interested in meeting him So to me obviously the answer was an
• 05:30 - 06:00 immediate yes And uh you know it's funny because you know I had had a lot of these conversations but it had never been like a a date if you will and we like scheduled a coffee meeting and and I'm waiting at the the like grad student coffee like cafe and waiting for him And I'm nervous Are you nervous Yeah I'm nerv I'm more nervous than I was going in the camp I was really nervous just because you don't know and like this is an actual person from Palestine Like I didn't even know his background And I just knew like this is a like actual Palestinian Like how's he going to see
• 06:00 - 06:30 me Like we like get a coffee and obviously we do the whole like I'll pay Oh no I'll pay like thing you know like like a date It's like weird man platonic Weird weird man platonic uh international relations date Exactly And I have to say within 15 minutes it was like we were best friends The guy's amazing What was your first first impression His demeanor He is unbelievably
• 06:30 - 07:00 like you know here here's how I'll put it A lot of people like use the lingo of like empathy nowadays Sure I think it's it's it's a you know it's it's a for good reason It's it's a buzz word You know people talk about being empathy and you know now like he's a practicing Buddhist and and people kind of talk about these ideas The guy lives it The guy really really inhabits it Um and you know his first kind of questions to me like "So is your family in Israel How are they doing?"
• 07:00 - 07:30 That you know that to me that says everything And I asked him "How is your family doing?" And that was this moment of like "All right there's going to be something here I'm not sure how many people have seen like his interviews but 60 Minutes or whatnot and he talks about like love and this and he like he means it." I I I want to get into the the how where that led to but I can't I imagine that there's there's times where there's tension there's disagreement there like rhetorical tension or or even just like facts on the ground tension Um how do
• 07:30 - 08:00 you every single time with M where I have been nervous to bring something up I have and his response is incredible So like I mean within the first uh time we met we had a conversation about like this idea of something he wanted to start which we'll get to and um the question of BDS which is boycott dive investment and sanctions and this is a kind of for a lot of Jews and
• 08:00 - 08:30 Israelis this is this seen as a kind of something like if you support it it's it's non-starter I don't necessarily view it with such I think there's more space and nuance to talk about that but you know when we meeting and it was the first time and we're getting to know each other and he brings a BDS as his like that's that's the first goal and I was like I don't know man like if you do that you're gonna like you want to build something you make that your cornerstone
• 08:30 - 09:00 you're going to lose people and what was amazing to me is we like talked probably like 15 minutes about it and really go in I explain the dynamics and the politics and he's like okay now that doesn't necessarily mean he like immediately changes mind and doesn't agree and he agrees with me but he really wanted to hear it He's really interested So uh so you meet in this uh this coffee shop situation who who somebody pays for the coffees I paid for the first one I insisted I insisted And uh and what's what's what's from
• 09:00 - 09:30 there So you you didn't know about this guy You didn't know that he was part of the organizing of the like some stuff before I had heard I had kind of heard like he had been a leader in the movement I didn't know the full story Sure Um what's next So the next one is so the idea was how we want to build a community of Israelis and Palestinians Um and specifically Israelis and Palestinians not like Jewish supporters not like Yeah other
• 09:30 - 10:00 supporters of the movement like really like the people who have the firsthand experience of the stakes in this conflict bring them together to one I mean I think first and foremost to show that in this time where people are just screaming past each other like there are those of us who want to solve this and to the idea was start small and grow and grow and grow until we could have like a broader movement and and create a different narrative
• 10:00 - 10:30 pressure you know decision makers And it's funny because I'm not an activist type What What What do you say I mean I was just never I I was always I I was I was very like idealistic when I was young I was like I studied environmental studies in uh in undergrad and uh you know I had kind of given up on the on the dream of making big change and I I really you know I always and I'm I'm not one to like be a part of a movement The irony is like here I am now like this
• 10:30 - 11:00 week with everything that's happened like I feel like I'm taking on an activist role and it's like it's this weird like a Mos you bastard you got me in activism now it just took you getting arrested All it all it took was you doing uh from what I can tell nothing Usually to get arrested you do have to break the law but in this case apparently that is not the case Not that So I think that you know that there was the the period where Musen was uh you know organizing protests but then there
• 11:00 - 11:30 was sort of like it seemed like he stepped back from that some and this is the irony of it all is like Mosen stepped back you know in many ways I think because he believed that the movement needed to do uh put a little more emphasis on like policing certain voices or moderating uh certain things uh you know there's a famous uh clip of him kind of like you know subduing like suppressing
• 11:30 - 12:00 like someone who's screaming anti-semitic stuff and him saying like this is doesn't represent us and I think my understanding is he felt that the movement had uh become a little bit or always I don't know like was too lax um in that which is funny right that was my biggest critique of the movement like as a Israeli who does want to find peace I would talk to people in the movement and say like I would love to join your cause of like a ceasefire I would love to join your cause of you know an end to
• 12:00 - 12:30 the occupation but I can't because there are people within your movement who are actively justifying my potential death And I think Mosen felt similarly that like the movement wasn't doing a good job releasing itself So he then I think transitioned and took some time to think all what's next And so he decided that he wanted to start this middle ground this middle path Um and so he spent a lot of time talking to Jewish people Jewish like leaders and academics talking to
• 12:30 - 13:00 Israelis and I think also like spent a lot of time like trying to learn more I he had already done a lot of work but like continuing to learn about the Israeli Jewish experience Currently you know it's it's been in uh in progress and I think it has moved a little slower than we would have liked um they're as they often do and and then of course like I graduated so I left kind of on the sidelines and looking in from the outside and Men uh I think over the last few months has had other things
• 13:00 - 13:30 that he's been focusing on for reason obviously Mhm Um but the irony is actually like his you know over the past three or four days like our group chat of like Israelis we call it like Israelis for peace or whatever We haven't really come up with a name but like our group chat is like we've been more active than we've ever been Like people are writing opeds people are doing interviews people are really trying to show you know I think and I want to be very clear all of us think that these arrests are unjust also have
• 13:30 - 14:00 you know like regard like regardless of what the person's views are this is wrong for us one with mos like this is personal he's our friend and two it shows how absurd this is like I think you know often for a lot of Israelis on there's or there's a saying like or this is more like maybe center right like we don't have a partner for peace we want peace but we don't have a partner and I'm like here's your goddamn partner right here Here's the
• 14:00 - 14:30 guy And if this if we can't stand up for this guy then what are we talking about This is the ironic thing is like Moxen's a pacifist He's an actual pacifist I'm not like I studied security So you So Mosen Mosen is like an actual literal pacifist He's a literal pacifist Oh yeah This is what's nuts about him I assume you've seen the video of of the arrest of being arrested Yeah Yeah I guess there there was not shock that came along with that freedom There's not
• 14:30 - 15:00 shock There was I mean you know was there shock you know a friend sent you know I'm in it was 1:00 a.m for me and my best friend sends me the clip and she's like they got most and she knew how close we were And you know it's interesting like I didn't I knew it was a possibility beforehand but like my brain immediately went into like overdrive of just like all right what do we do Just started like reaching
• 15:00 - 15:30 out to journalists I will say like watching the clip and this is maybe something I should admit I like chuckled a little bit at first just seeing him being like so calm shooting the peace signs like of course he's going to do that like nothing phases that guy Did you have a reaction to the the justification that the State Department gave Did you see any of that Oh this new one about like he's harming the peace Yeah the the the there's it's a specific
• 15:30 - 16:00 it's a specific like law I think that like it's a specific part of the law that says like you can uh revoke someone's green card if they like are a threat to US policy to national right and so I think which has only ever been used for like like basically Soviet spies Yeah Um yeah so there was something around that and then like I think their argument was
• 16:00 - 16:30 by encouraging anti-semitism he was harming the peace negoti the yes yeah yeah yeah it didn't even it didn't even actually I don't think it said that he encouraged anti-semitism it said that like his actions could could encourage anti anti-semitism It's batshit Like it's so dumb The like you know you want to have a conversation about what's holding up the peace
• 16:30 - 17:00 negotiations in Gaza it's the leadership of both of those sides You know it is Hamas and it is the Netanyahu government If there's any one thing I want to come from like these interviews it's like American Jewelry liberal American Jews who believe in democracy who believe in free speech who want peace stand up for this guy because he's the thing we want He is like what we have been asking for And he's not the only one Far from it Yeah But he is here
• 17:00 - 17:30 is a young you know a young man who is taking a leadership position in this movement who's been through so much who could hate us if he wanted and has chosen not to and wants peace and wants coexistence Like he should be our champion Do you feel like you might have negative consequences to your career or future in America because of this I've never had to weigh the mor the morality of an action and like the personal sacrifice
• 17:30 - 18:00 in this way in this in this and but it just to me it's like it's okay fine like if I have to if I don't get some job I'll get another job or I don't know but like this is the right thing to do Yeah If I don't stand up from then like does anything I say about my value matters like does like like is am I all talk So like it wasn't even a question What are your hopes Like if if this could go the best way what would that look like So my expectation is he's going to be released because this is so clearly
• 18:00 - 18:30 unconstitutional So that to me is like step one I know maybe I'm wrong but like and and you know I think we've seen like even if the courts say something that doesn't mean it's going to happen So like you know my I I I don't like if that I can't even handle that if you will Like there's nothing I can do That's a level of powerlessness You know if the US government decides to illegally deport someone no matter what the courts say like I can't do anything about that That's kind of step one is he's going to be released I believe it
• 18:30 - 19:00 He and I are going to sit and have you know eat hummus People love that People love that idea of like humus diplomacy Like oh like they'll just get together and they'll talk about the problems of humus But like we actually that's something I would do with them I'd love that So that's step one My like dream is that like and I want to be clear like I'm not the only Israeli who's doing this right now I'm not the only Israeli like there's many others who've worked with Mosan who know him who see this is our
• 19:00 - 19:30 opportunity to yeah and other other Palestinians who are on the same track 100% you know my my aspiration is that this injustice that's been done to Mos and the response of you know Israelis who support him can like remind people that this doesn't have to be that this way And and again like it's funny because there's been this often this debate of like you know like as we had this group chat of Israelis who were working with Mos and like there there
• 19:30 - 20:00 were other like Jews at Colombia who were writing a letter There's a question like do we join them Do we not join them And I was like "No I think it's actually important that this be Israelis I think it's important to show that we as Israelis find this wrong and that we're not alone and that there's not one of us there's a lot of us." And my hope is that this can start some sort of spark of like at least in America bringing Israelis and Palestinians together and then maybe even work backwards from there or forwards you know like I think there's a lot we have a lot of pain here you know
• 20:00 - 20:30 there's even more pain back home you know I talked to my brother who lives there I talked to my friends you know Moss to his like like you know the people who are really living in it right now it's it's it's it's incredibly painful And so to kind of if we can start here in the States where it's a little more removed and we can bring people together maybe that can carry That's beautiful man As uh I hope it happens We'll see Inshallah as they say
• 20:30 - 21:00 Thank you for spending some time and and also for doing this all over the place Uh and I hope that you have some normal sleep uh when the sun is down Oh I like last night I think I I slept um ended up cuz I hadn't slept like 2 days I like slept from like 1:00 p.m to 9:00 p.m and then from like 11 to 6 like the most I've slept I mean I feel great now Yeah I guess Yeah that's what tra that's what traveling is like It's like never
• 21:00 - 21:30 knowing when you're going to be asleep Uh especially when you're like the full 12 hours That's Oh and I'm nocturnal anyways Like I stay up till 4 in the morning So my sleep schedule got weird Yeah it got really weird I love it I love coming back and being like I can make my sleep schedule whatever I want it to be And then it immediately reverts back to exactly what it was before I could be a 6 a.m man again And then another you see I don't even I I don't I don't even strive to be a morning person
• 21:30 - 22:00 Well I celebrate I celebrating I don't have kids Yes That was what my life was like and then I had a child And now I strive to be a morning person because I have to be Cuz you have to Because there's a literal living being because the school starts at 8 So I have to be up at 7 Listen that's another podcast episode about like school hours I have a big problem with it is I I would do it differently if I if I had uh if I was the desperate but
• 22:00 - 22:30 I'm sure they have their reasons We need what we need is people who are comfortable being uncomfortable to come into these spaces to do the necessary diplomacy necessary diplomacy getting school to start at 11 Yeah You know I I will say I that that comes second Okay After ending the wars after we after we solve Israel Palestine then we can get to school hours Thank you Thank you so much Appreciate you bringing me on You too