The Story Of Death Row Records Co-Founder Harry-O (#421)

Summary

In this intriguing interview, Michael "Harry-O" Harris delves into his tumultuous journey from being a successful drug dealer to co-founding the legendary music label Death Row Records, all while serving time in prison. At an early age, Harris demonstrated an entrepreneurial spirit, owning multiple businesses by his mid-20s. However, his drug-related activities led to a lengthy prison sentence. During this period, he continued his entrepreneurial pursuits, contributing to the creation of Death Row Records, which became a powerhouse in the music industry. The conversation touches on his early business ventures, the dark side of the drug trade, his eventual incarceration, and his role in shaping music history, providing an insightful look at redemption and transformation.

Highlights

• By age 26, Harris managed 11 businesses, showcasing his early knack for entrepreneurship. 🚀
• He co-founded Death Row Records from prison, illustrating that creativity and enterprise know no bounds. 📈
• The brand Death Row introduced the world to music icons like Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, and Tupac. 🎧
• Harry-O's time in prison was marked by reflection and transformation, leading to his involvement in Death Row. 🔖
• The interview reveals insights into the challenges of managing talent and navigating industry pitfalls. 🎤
• Harris emphasizes the importance of patience, learning from past mistakes, and the value of redemption. 🛤️

Key Takeaways

• Michael Harris, aka Harry-O, was a serial entrepreneur from a young age, owning multiple businesses by age 26. 💼
• Harris went from street-savvy drug dealer to music mogul, co-founding Death Row Records from behind bars. 🎤
• Despite his criminal past, Harry-O found redemption and continued impacting the music world positively. 🔄
• Death Row Records, co-founded by Harris, played a pivotal role in shaping hip-hop, introducing iconic artists like Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg. 🎶
• The interview highlights the duality of Harry-O's life: the lure of quick money in the drug trade versus the legitimate success in the music industry. ⚖️
• Harris's story is one of resilience, transformation, and the power of second chances. 🌟

Overview

Michael 'Harry-O' Harris's journey is a tale of resilience and transformation. Born in the tough neighborhoods of Los Angeles, Harris quickly rose to prominence by launching several successful business ventures by his mid-20s. However, his involvement in drug sales led to a 33-year prison sentence. During his incarceration, Harris co-founded Death Row Records, a label that would become a cornerstone of hip-hop culture, launching careers of artists like Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg.

Despite his criminal past, Harris's entrepreneurial spirit never waned. He leveraged his business acumen and connections from behind bars to transcend his previous lifestyle, focusing on legitimate enterprise through Death Row Records. This creative endeavor not only changed his life but also significantly impacted the music industry as a whole.

The interview reveals Harris's reflective mindset, discussing the lessons he learned from his past and the contrast between his former life and his current pursuits. His story highlights the power of redemption and underscores the complexities of his character: a man who, despite his past, managed to leave a lasting, positive impact on the music world.

The Story Of Death Row Records Co-Founder Harry-O (#421) Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 you told me by age 26 you had 11 different businesses you said around that in your early or mid-20s you were producing Broadway shows that you were like in the mix at a very early early age how did that kind of come to be and what were those 11 businesses [Music] all right man we're live we uh we we always just kind of hop into things but uh on the Pod today we have
• 00:30 - 01:00 Michael Harris but do you like to go by Harry O or Michael what do you like to go by well people call me you know people that know me by Harry oh call me Harry call me oh or Michael whatever works so I'll kind of set this up but basically I'll tell you I I I've I've read a lot about you and I've read about a lot of the work that you've done the way that we got connected was we have a mutual friend named Chris who um has this has this thing called The
• 01:00 - 01:30 Last Mile which helps people when they get out of prison helps them get jobs at tech companies and he's been bragging about you because I told him you you can't see it now because I redecorated but on my wall I used to have a picture of Tupac and Dre and Easy E because I loved NWA and I loved like the rebellious culture of of people who created cool stuff and he goes hey you know I know the guy who is part you know part brains behind all that and I go what and he said who you you know he said your name I go oh I've read all
• 01:30 - 02:00 about him and he goes well I I he's my he's my buddy so that's kind of that's kind of how we got connected and so I thought today we can kind of talk a little bit about your story so people can learn about you but then also we can talk a little bit about business and kind of the stuff that you went through so you uh where are you from uh Los Angeles I'm from the east side of Los Angeles California you told me by age 26 you had 11 different businesses you said around the in your early or
• 02:00 - 02:30 mid-20s you were producing Broadway shows that you were like in the mix at a very early early age how did that kind of come to be and what were those 11 businesses well I used to be I used to uh I used to own a limousine first business I had was a limousine service uh that was uh quite profitable and I also had a construction company I had production companies I had music companies I had a salons like beauty salons I had a
• 02:30 - 03:00 real estate investment companies so I was just kind of like all over the place and I also produced uh not just concerts and plays but also uh I supported clubs in the city how big was the the limo business I had I had a I had about 30 30 cars and so but there was a luxury uh limousines they were Ultra scratches
• 03:00 - 03:30 at the time it was pretty uh pretty impressive it's the style car that we had yeah what type of monthly Revenue can a limo business make you know it depends I stay pretty book I spent a lot of time um advertising so a lot of times uh I would have beyond the cards that I possess I would have uh people calling me and saw a lot of the services that uh
• 03:30 - 04:00 surrounded me didn't have business and so I would form them I would form out the rest of the business that I didn't have the capacity to serve so a lot of times I would provide opportunities for the other uh car services that didn't advertise as much as I did so maybe somebody needed 100 cars and only had 30 I could provide them with a hundred because I would parlay that out to uh what they call form out to the other companies which you get 50 percent of the uh service
• 04:00 - 04:30 that is conducted right right would you actually get half you get half of what it is because you're the one who initiated the sale what how old were you and how old were you when you had a limo company that had 30 30 cars probably maybe 23 years old how on Earth does that happen what age should you start working well you know as a youngster I started working I used to work at it I mean I likely places uh to learn uh business
• 04:30 - 05:00 structure uh when I was a kid I mean like I'm talking about like before I even went to Junior High School I worked at a shoe shine parlor and and at that shoe shine parlor uh it was in my neighborhood but it was two shoe shine Impalas and there's one on one end of the corner and one was on the other end of the corner what I was able to learn from that experience as a 12 13 year old kid uh 11 12 13 year old kid is competition and
• 05:00 - 05:30 how business was ran and these two guys competed with each other but they also hired you know kids from the neighborhood to work at these shoeshine parlors and we competed with each other and so I learned a lot about business from that practice in that process but I also learned I used to listen a lot you know a lot of people come in different from different walks of life it could be preachers and business owners uh people from the street and you would just you know while you're shining their shoes
• 05:30 - 06:00 and listening at a young age and you're hearing different uh hearing about different opportunities and how people approach business differently and so I was always like a sponge at a young age but you know friends and I also learned I never judge a book by its cover like sometimes the guy might pull up and be in a nice car and you're like people was you know trying to get that customer and this guy comes in may may only have one or two pair of shoes and may not even be
• 06:00 - 06:30 a Tipper but then a guy pulls up in a station wagon or a regular car and he might have 30 cars in the you know 30 shoes in there and also it's a big temper so it just just learning how to read people and you know just that whole competitive thing that was amongst us as you used to compete in you know be at our best be dressed you know represent and you know holding in on our skill so I try to learn something from everything I always did as a kid like how do I use
• 06:30 - 07:00 this moving forward you know what is it what's the lesson you know learned here you know so uh that was that was and my mother also on a a restaurant in the neighborhood and I watched how she navigated that and how she would how she handled her customers and how she worked with her staff and you know actually remember before she bought that business when she used to work for the people that she bought it from how she you know raised up Rose up in that in terms of
• 07:00 - 07:30 manage meant and then acquired that business and so just watching people uh be effective in business at a young age had a profound effect on me and you end up kind of getting in trouble which I'll let you tell a story in your 20s but before that how how big was your Empire in terms of employees at its peak I probably had about a hundred and 150 employees and can you reveal like how much revenue
• 07:30 - 08:00 like this whole the whole empire was bringing in that was me I was making millions and I was I mean you know it's 35 36 years ago so I don't remember exact I mean that builds up though what do you what did you do with your money I always invested in real estate in real estate so you're not not public equities you liked real estate and you're so you're buying real estate what your neighborhood yeah yeah all over in any way I could find a deal uh you know to
• 08:00 - 08:30 buy up you know like rehab properties as well as the luxury of properties and um business uh Outlets I would I would purchase it how many did you own how many how many buildings probably 30 or 40 buildings damn you still own them it's been a long time brother I mean that adds up that adds up I I just started purchasing some stuff
• 08:30 - 09:00 um about three years ago and I'm like if I just get one or two every single year I mean these definitely add up and you you bought it a good time I bet oh yeah it was uh it was a you know I was in a position about about uh by a different type of properties that came into my preview so but the thing that you're most famous for is the entertainment stuff when did you what led you to entertainment was it the plays at first no one one of my first well I said limousine was one of my
• 09:00 - 09:30 first major business but I added up in a um and open up a uh it went in that building I was telling you about that was on 54th and Crenshaw I opened up a studio and we created a company it was I believe it was called the jingle Factory and what I would do is make commercials for local uh businesses and so with the local radio stations and so uh like klj kjlhm K Ace
• 09:30 - 10:00 and and so that that brought me around musicians so you know I would have people sing Hooks and make certain melodies for it to go with you know certain businesses to give it a certain aesthetic and so a lot of uh producers and singers would come into the studio and I kind of just kind of drifted off into that world uh so I've managing groups and
• 10:00 - 10:30 uh working with uh different record labels and production companies and at the same time as my limousine girl was growing I worked with a lot of production companies as well and artists would use my services so just being in that Circle connected me to uh that world and so for different reasons I got involved and uh the music business was there anyone that is or that I would know of that you
• 10:30 - 11:00 started working with like really early around on around that time at the was it called the jingle Factory yeah the jingle Factory was makes commercial it was commercial based like that you know we did commercials in the city so basically that I did did my own Jingles for my own uh Limousine Service as well so no that was a non-celebrity that was just commercial but at the same time I started working with uh you know Motown I started working with at the time old town was uh uh pretty hot in the city so I was
• 11:00 - 11:30 working with Motown behind the scenes a lot and then how did that kind of go into the production companies well I created a production called why not production and I just felt like during that time um it was hard for people to look like me to uh to really uh get a stronghold in the city so I decided to create my own production company so and I would you know be
• 11:30 - 12:00 available to help produce artists that didn't have the financial other thought to be able to do it themselves and and somebody brought me a play opportunity and I I never I never was involved in plays into that moment and I just thought it was just a real creative space for people who were you know in the movie business but didn't have work at the time but could horn in on a craft and also provide entertainment in the
• 12:00 - 12:30 community and a lot of people may not have been used to uh experiencing the plays and so that gave me an opportunity to bring that kind of entertainment uh to my community so it was very exciting I got to meet some some pretty Heavy Hitters doing an opportunity I've met a Paul Winfield I met Vanessa Williams I'm at uh Richard Lawson I met uh Ruby d uh
• 12:30 - 13:00 I mean Al Freeman I mean I could just go down the list uh there's a number of people who uh work with me on this uh production I work with a guy named Woody King he's out of New York who's the director and Ron Milner was happened to be the uh the author of this particular play called Checkmate and I was able to take it to various cities and uh ultimately got it to Broadway with Anita Landers
• 13:00 - 13:30 I'm 46 and Broadway in my life Came Crashing Down right before we actually launched on Broadway we was on Broadway but I didn't get to Market and promoted the way I normally do I like the market and promote the projects that I'm involved with and so what does that mean you you basically that you know someone came to you and they go hey man I got this idea for this play I got here's my vision yada yada here's what I think could be the outcome and you're like all right
• 13:30 - 14:00 cool I'll put up 100K I'm half owner and I'll help make connections you're going to do a lot of the day-to-day work I'll oversee and I'll make some connections and or were you more Hands-On like what's that look like okay like when you talk about like what I was telling you about all my investments was consistent like I would like to come into the management aspect of it what that does though uh helps me understand the business okay I may have management skills but I may not have a a
• 14:00 - 14:30 an Insight on that particular business so part of that that that that relationship that merging of that relationship you need to teach me everything you know about what you do and then I you know compile that with my management skills and then we could you know move on to the next level but that was part of what I would do you know I would come in and decide if this is something I want to invest in and I
• 14:30 - 15:00 would become the managing partner but also I want to learn everything that everybody here knows so that I could be effective in that position and so that's that's usually I always took what's it like working with and by the way at this point you're still in your 20s yes and you were working with some up-and-coming people but you're definitely probably working with some established people what did they think about this guy they say this I mean you got this tough guy persona now I bet you
• 15:00 - 15:30 had that same Persona back then you know you could be in you you can be intimidating I imagine they're like well I I I'm saying that's my opinion and if I had to do business with you I'd be like man I don't want to make this guy mad and so if you're in your 20s and like oh this young black guy from uh he's talking about living in L.A now he's wanting to be out here in New York putting on these plays like who who's this guy think he is like where where did you deal with but I always respect other people's
• 15:30 - 16:00 territory you know no matter what business you're in and when I always deal with people respectfully you know I mean that maybe it's the Persona the perception of me and then it's the reality of me and so the reality is that I always was straight up you know so if there may be that tension there may be that consideration before they get to know me but then once they get to know it oh this guy's you know he's up you know straight up 100 you know keep it
• 16:00 - 16:30 real you know it wasn't you know I did stake that up I don't know probably later on when the death row stuff happened I just think people conflate everybody's attitude as one and you know we all were different you know we all came from different uh Vantage points uh to help create that and I just think that sometimes people don't pull back and say you know who are the individuals that was a part
• 16:30 - 17:00 of that uh unity and uh that's a that's a different that that will bring about a different perception once people got to know who you are you know I come from a pretty tough neighborhood I I don't I won't argue that and I think that you have to be pretty strong to survive it uh and especially with certain businesses that I was in as a youth you
• 17:00 - 17:30 had to be pretty strong to survive it and a lot of things I did at my younger youth I'm not really proud of especially now today after being away for 33 years and and you know going through that experience and reflecting your back on on my quick rise as heavy fall you know but at the same time I always try to stay positive and and try to see what that Journey had to offer so what you said um the plays um
• 17:30 - 18:00 the play didn't work out because your life Came Crashing Down what's that mean right when we went through the pre-broadway and got ready you know open full full scale I was arrested and uh sent to prison uh what were the charges I was uh I was arrested for one for attempted murder and to uh later for drug uh conspiracy and the the later the uh drug the attempted
• 18:00 - 18:30 murder was I was exonerated at the end after 30 after this goddamn 23 years but you know I knew I was innocent and I think that's made me take it you know lightly and I didn't really I kept working when I was out on build not thinking that this would uh the results that happened would happen I thought I was uh you know I would be Vindicated and life was upside down
• 18:30 - 19:00 what were you guilty of the drug charges yeah I used to be involved in drugs I and um so I was also uh even though I had got out of the drug business you know you get pulled back in based on some previous uh phone calls I had got out but still you know that's they call that Karma you know you have to pay the piper and when I when you Google your name one of the first thing comes up it's this
• 19:00 - 19:30 interview did you did I forget the publication but the article said at one point you're doing something I think it said close to a million dollars a day in drug sales is that true they said too was it two million a day yeah I think I said too I'm not proud of that so what what's the story of that it was hard work I mean you know I mean the thing is uh even that's Coke I guess yes it was cocaine yeah and I think that uh like I was
• 19:30 - 20:00 saying before uh whatever I put myself to uh in a better difference it was it was like I put myself to it you know and then it was like only after watching the uh repercussions throughout my community and communities across the country that I realized that yo what was making me uh Rich was also making me poor in spirit and in a
• 20:00 - 20:30 culture you know I was helping to destroy my own community and so you know so I don't really take a lot of joy and talking about the amount of money I made in that business even though I was engaged and I was I was pretty uh focused in that business when I was young and misguided in that business venture but uh I had a lot of time to reflect and I bet that's confusing because
• 20:30 - 21:00 whenever you know I start something and it starts working on working out I get it's like a dopamine rush you know just seeing the sales come in I mean it's exciting you know like it's fun um in your case it's even though people were getting hurt it's definitely exhilarating and it is exciting and even if you're using the money to invest in cool stuff that helps your community it's still and it hurts people it's still exciting I mean I bet that's still an exhilarating adventurous life and you gotta understand so at a young age you know just yeah you gotta see it's
• 21:00 - 21:30 got to put everything in his proper context you know like I'm growing up people selling weed you know there's no there's no harm you know it's like and then this thing is introduced to the community and and it's just the next level from selling marijuana or whatever it is and you they say you know you're involved and all you see is the dollars you know what you're making the transactions you know really because everybody was you know you smoke weed next day you get up you go to work you do what you do you don't really know you
• 21:30 - 22:00 had no previous uh Insight on what this could could become and so it's just like okay this person is buying you selling it it's in your community it's available that's it that's all you see and then when you see later on when you see that this is not like marijuana this is something else it is changing the the uh it's just changing the whole
• 22:00 - 22:30 makeup of the community you know people are just not themselves no more and now it's like whoa you know especially if you're a conscious person and you was raised and a good you know family setting and now you're out here hustling and you're hustling in a way that other people that have become vulnerable to this particular drug which I never use so I didn't know I didn't know what it felt like but that you know it's people that I cared about later I would see them fall victim to it and you know
• 22:30 - 23:00 that's that Karma I'm talking about it comes back to you you know it's like wow this is what I'm doing so yeah I made a lot of money it was exciting it was adventurous it was it was uh enterprising but then it also had that side that you you can't ignore and then you got what was your sentence for 33 years and that was mostly the attempted murder or the yeah that's that's that was not my sentence I had a 25 of life and on top of that I had a 20
• 23:00 - 23:30 years since for the federal us with the feds damn what's that feel like hearing that it's unbelievable but but it's real I mean like the the uh the criminal system is real I mean it's it's like a lot of people I think conversations like the one we have and should be had more I think people just see the glitz and glamor of a particular lifestyle and and the fact that a lot of
• 23:30 - 24:00 us have very little patience because some of us live in conditions that are unbearable so you just want to get out however you got to get out and so you don't realize that the patience that that you need that you can exercise that you should exercise could save you a lifetime a misery and so it's you know in hindsight you can see you know I can't reverse you know so I I believe I should be a
• 24:00 - 24:30 conduit for that I believe I should be able to talk to people that are poised to make some of the same uh useful mistakes that I made thinking that it's gonna solve the problem when it creates multiple problems uh and it affects your family any community in ways that you can't even imagine when you were so you started death row or and I want to hear about that while in prison after you went in yes
• 24:30 - 25:00 how on Earth does that work well you know I'm enterprising what do you want me to tell you I mean what do you want me to say what's it I mean when you're just sit there you have a visitor or you write letters you're doing phone calls and and someone comes to you and be like hey man you want to start a record label I mean I don't even know I mean how long were you in in there before you you kind of got this idea or or how'd that happen when I got told you I was involved in
• 25:00 - 25:30 different aspects of the entertainment business already so it's kind of like I was already bitten by the bug uh what happened was uh uh I don't know if I should tell you this part of maybe you should wait till the movie come out but uh maybe you know maybe maybe even already heard some aspects of this but it's just uh you know I was uh I I just still had all this energy inside of me that I wanted to do something I didn't want I didn't want my sentence uh to be the end of me and you
• 25:30 - 26:00 know I just I just couldn't stop you know I'm a kind of guy that only slept three hours a day and uh and like I said we're in 11 businesses how do you go to prison to sit there and then be okay with that you know it's just not what it is so you always you're trying to find something outside of your environment that allows you to stay alive uh in spite of your circumstances and in spite of your sentence that has been
• 26:00 - 26:30 imposed you just you know you're still youthful and you still you still want to have an impact because like I said when you deal with the totality of a person and you see that day was more good than bad than that person that's that's what you're trying to get back to you know what I'm saying like you know like sometimes I could say just trying to find a cool place in hell you know for all the bad things that I did you know praying that God could you know forgive me for that at the same time being able to give some back to my
• 26:30 - 27:00 community that they can use instead of something they shouldn't use so what's that creation Story look like um who uh who contacted I mean I I don't I I told you I read uh ruthless is it is that what the book's called ruthless is that by Jerry Heller so yeah yeah so Rufus was before death row right right right right right so death row is the if you say if you will the next iteration of Ruthless uh
• 27:00 - 27:30 because one of the main components of Rufus was Dr Dre and Dr Dre uh was the producer of the music that the that mostly was produced by NWA mostly all the music that was released in the NWA was produced by Dr Dre and so NWA was a group in Dr Dre was a part of that but he also was the engine that made it run but I don't think that Eazy-E rest in peace and Jerry Heller also deceased
• 27:30 - 28:00 understood what understood Dre's value it to the point where it shouldn't have been uh overlooked and so that opened up an opportunity for him to be disgruntled and uh for sure at night uh who uh who actually began to manage Dr Dre after managing an artist by the name of DLC
• 28:00 - 28:30 uh who introduced should to Dr Dre and uh then I was introduced to should shortly after and uh that's how that relationship came he was managing Dr Dre and Doc and uh we created a company first we created a Godfather entertainment and then out of that first death row and so then who came up with that name I came up with Godfather entertainment and and based on my situation you know I
• 28:30 - 29:00 was actually housed on death row in San Quentin yes and Quinn for I wasn't sentenced to death row I was housed there for a short period of time and I was able to witness young people younger than myself at the time being sentenced to death row and I just you know I was profoundly affected by that and I thought that uh go so you hear different versions of the name because there used to be deaf deaf like def bro and then we decided to call
• 29:00 - 29:30 it death row which I that's the company I set up afro records and you had um you guys yeah I worked with uh my attorney at the time that was working with me on my appeal David Kenner was also part of that partnership that helped assemble that company for me while I was behind bars and you guys I mean you didn't necessarily you didn't even shape the genre you created it a little bit you
• 29:30 - 30:00 know you had uh POC Snoop who else was on there I mean it's it's the people don't realize death row didn't have a large where Oscars just had an effective one uh and also my ex-wife Lydia she was also a part of the management team that helped facilitate the company in the beginning uh so to answer your question it's like the moment the world heard Snoop Dogg and Dr Dre's voice together
• 30:00 - 30:30 it was it was a game changer you know it was a you know a warranty uh was a part of a group with Snoop two on three again his relationship with Dr Dre facilitated Snoop Dogg coming into the fold and uh DLC working with uh Snoop man helping him you know up his game in the rap game and Dr Dre looking to create another star
• 30:30 - 31:00 and that relationship forged together just it's just made magic but there was other members other producers and other artists that was on the label female like rage and Jewel the dog pound there was a there was a there was just a lot of synergy there you know and they all come from different walks of life and and it just was that time you know some
• 31:00 - 31:30 things was just time you know the energy pot came later but uh he uh brought some of that fire with him too and it's just put death row in history books like no other label because a lot of people don't really understand that death row was the the little choo-choo train at wood you know it just it connected us to so many different companies that a lot of people don't even realize that like I mean from
• 31:30 - 32:00 Universal to increasing their distribution because of the relationship with their fro and endoscope and Warner Brothers almost getting out of the music business because uh the way they mishandled their relationship with death row and Interscope I'm just saying it's it's so many different aspects to death Row's existence that most people don't even Ponder they're too busy with the negative side of in the drama that some of the people that was involved participated in but they
• 32:00 - 32:30 don't think about the enterprising nature of that organization which is what my focus is is like what it what was his original intent and what did it do in the in the business world that most people don't talk about isn't the narrative has been focused now it's been been moved to a narrow focus and hopefully I'll be able to expand that up no no yeah Snoop Dogg working together it's
• 32:30 - 33:00 Snoop Dogg we acquired uh death Rowan with partners and I'm the CEO of the new death row that I helped create 30 some years ago so it's exciting let's see how that turned out what's crazy is you've been around all these people and you actually saw them when they were young you talked about all these interesting people Denzel Dre Snoop what uh what are some of these young guys have in common you think that kind of because
• 33:00 - 33:30 they're not just like successful business people they're culture changing people they changed America they changed the world what what what attributes did they have in common you know what I'm saying well it's just back up like like seeing Denzel as the young Denzel and seeing him now he still is consistent in his character you know it's certain roles he won't play it's it's it is the way that he approaches the craft that attracted me to that
• 33:30 - 34:00 project Checkmate in the first place he was it was just always a consummate uh professional you know it's just he didn't really hang out you know he just did what he did and he took off but I just watched him and I watched his work ethic and in his projection in the films that he do uh for people that look like myself we're proud you know he makes you proud he makes you proud and that's not enough of that in our culture to have people who can represent you know just in this
• 34:00 - 34:30 craft you know just a strong Focus uh intriguing individual you know instead of like you use the word intimidating like towards me earlier you know it's like sometimes that could be off-putting for people uh and it and it kills opportunity because people see the book remember earlier I talked about judging a book by its cover and uh not really taking the time you know to connect to
• 34:30 - 35:00 that individual but Denzel has been really great with that with the Roses played so it's my honor and pleasure that they hadn't known him then and to know him now that he's uh he's a consummate professional even today he uh he's always you know thinking about his thoughts when he when he when he does a a particular project and NWA and death row is different now it it had this uh and by the way when I
• 35:00 - 35:30 said intimidating in part I meant I'm par I'm intimidated because you've got this cool demeanor I asked you earlier I said if you ever say something that you don't want on the Pod just let me know and you said I don't say things I don't mean to say like you just you got this Clint Eastwood just like I'm like I just you've got this coolness about you that is uh is intimidating as what I meant and I'm intimidated by your success but I appreciate the clarification yeah
• 35:30 - 36:00 because you know I'm glad you said that no and I appreciate that aspect of it yeah I uh no I just you know I just think about my thoughts and so that's why I don't worry I I appreciate you you're saying that to me uh early on but I'm usually conscious and if I say it I meant to say it you know that's what I mean you're very intentional and I and that can be intimidating to people because when I get nervous when they're if there's silence or I'm nervous I'll say [ __ ] that I don't even mean to say you know what I mean yeah you don't seem
• 36:00 - 36:30 to have that attribute I haven't been in some pretty sticky situations and you guys say what you mean mean what you say it could turn out real ugly you know if you you know if you uh don't understand your surroundings you know you got to speak to your audience you know whatever the artist may be in in real life I mean in life you know every day or just in this type of setting you know like you never know who could uh benefit from our conversation today uh or hesitate on
• 36:30 - 37:00 something they're about to do and say hey you know what that's some wisdom now let me let me connect to that uh here's a person that have been through it and experienced it on different levels and uh he might have something to say you know so thinking about I'm thinking about setting up me a podcast you know so you talk about your success I'm trying I'm gonna be in your rear view mirror for a second then I'll be I have a feeling you're gonna only be in the rearview mirror for a second but what were you saying about and I think you said NWA forget who you said you're
• 37:00 - 37:30 right okay they were different in a way that they provided an opportunity uh for us to speak now some people don't like what we said but it was different you know it was like you had a certain box that you know black Americans and and not just black American Hispanics you know different nationalities that are sometimes regulated to a you know a box and so you
• 37:30 - 38:00 don't really get to hear them but through this mechanism called music called hip-hop call rap called uh some people call it gangster rap you know I just call it reality rap you know whatever that reality was in US Community being able to speak to it you know what I'm saying like becoming your own CNN or a Fox News you know you can say this is what's happening good bad or indifference but this is what's happening in our community and they were able to communicate that and so my
• 38:00 - 38:30 intentions was to elevate but at the same time this thing takes on a life of his own and so and then you get involved uh in uh then it becomes a business and then you have Executives and producers who start to see your world even different from how you see it so later it was altered but in the in the beginning it was fresh and raw and uncut you know so you people are getting mirroring into a community
• 38:30 - 39:00 they know a little about and so that in that aspect the the rappers the the music business was able to oh [ __ ] shed a light on those communities in a way that hasn't been shedded and especially when it came to police brutality uh you know a lot of the uh Injustice that was taking place in those communities it just it just became a profitable vehicle
• 39:00 - 39:30 that allowed us to talk about things in cold or in you know through lyrics that normally you wouldn't even have access at all doing so what's the first song that you heard that you thought oh death row this I'm onto something [Music] well it's it's like I got to hear a lot of it before it came out so it wasn't I mean I got to hear the whole album The Chronic before it
• 39:30 - 40:00 came out and so but the first when I heard the first song that was done on Deep Cover soundtrack The Single that Snoop and Dre did uh and I was in prison and a lot of guys ah they weren't really paying attention to them really until that happened yeah because it was NWA and other groups that was out at the time and so uh uh MCA all these guys that were out you know and then we had other local uh
• 40:00 - 40:30 artists you know tiny T and Miss Max of spade and Ice-T and all these different guys with you know during their solo career as well but once they heard that song on the radio uh 187 on the other cover cop and they heard that melodic sound come from Snoop in those uh pop pumping Beats from Dre it was game over it was Game Over You know and that was like wow you know because uh you know I had tried to let
• 40:30 - 41:00 them listen to it before that and they didn't hear it then once this and I got a line around the corner they went ahead and tape now and then it's been like that ever since you know and I watched uh I was able to you know watch Trey and Snoop and then perform at the Super Bowl and uh I was able to attend the practices and it was just watching them at work and flashing back to what happened so many years ago and just
• 41:00 - 41:30 to see them become top-notch in their game because we took it from an independent type of setting with Rufus in the NWA and defro was able to submerge itself into the majors and and become a major player which changed the game for a lot of rappers that are quite successful today so they were was it was it mostly on tapes or CD it was tapes still when it when it first started yes they went to CDs yeah how much was the cassette back
• 41:30 - 42:00 then so The Chronic came out in 92. what what year did you go away I went away at 88. okay so you're in there for four years um by the time the chronic comes out how much is a cassette back then you think CDs in the late 90s were like 18 what's it yeah 18 to 23 yeah so that so so you talking about nine dollars for a cassette something like so listen to this I didn't I didn't
• 42:00 - 42:30 realize how fast this happened so I just I'm looking at the Disco I'm looking at um um death Rose uh work so the first album was The Chronic right that sold like three million pretty quickly then it was doggy style with with Snoop that sold close to seven million like pretty fast yes then it's all eyes on me by Park Tupac and then another Tupac one I mean I didn't realize I didn't realize how fast you came out
• 42:30 - 43:00 the gate yeah it changed the game it was just all of a sudden uh it made people go crazy too so you know like money just make you a bigger wherever you are so you know it's like a lot of a lot of things changed you know so you're you're on on a ten dollar cassette tape how much does death row get like 30 or 40 percent three or four dollars on ten dollars yeah that's about that's about right man it's not bad damn man so I mean what's it feel like to be in prison and seeing
• 43:00 - 43:30 all that money coming in you're not able to enjoy it yeah it's been better if I was on the streets I'd tell you that but at the same time uh it was good to see uh legal activity taking place to make that kind of money uh I come from a world where some people not that you had to but we felt that we had to do what we had to do to get what we had to get and to be able to see a legitimate Venture do so well and and those opportunities become
• 43:30 - 44:00 available to me and so many other people uh that's what I kind of locked into like we can go legit you know and and basically figuring out creative ways uh they they figured out creative ways to tell stories that uh that could capture the masses and uh I just thought that was such a creative even now when I when I'm around Snoop or
• 44:00 - 44:30 uh and I see him do things so effortlessly like he just it's just like it's nothing to him you know it's like all these years he could still remember lyrics that he did 30 years ago I could just compose it seconds ago and uh even being around Dr Dre has been in his home studio and watching him and
• 44:30 - 45:00 his team uh you know conduct four orchestras it's like what happened here you know like and they still are coming with music and they're still working with young people and they're still open it's like it's no like I hear no I'm done I hear none of that it's just like every day and just to be in those environments and
• 45:00 - 45:30 and just you know being recognized by those individuals as somebody that had an integral part in what they did um and amen stupors more than most uh are prettier connected when it comes to that you guys took off right out the gate with that throw but it almost seemed like unfortunately you kind of went away as fast as you came I mean your work stayed forever but the entity kind of
• 45:30 - 46:00 went South after only like a handful of years or you know was uh was back to management again you know yeah what would you what would you have done differently managing and with sugar with sugar good manager well I just say this about [ __ ] you know I think I think she was really creative and uh and he was in the right place at the right time and and he was able to connect the right people and so in the beginning it should to me could have
• 46:00 - 46:30 been one of our biggest entrepreneurs had he not uh imploded you know it I know him you know I mean I used to sit with him and I used to talk with him so I know the side of should that most people don't know and we've considered ourselves Brothers at one time you know it was a close bar and to see him unravel and and to uh pull away from these opportunities that
• 46:30 - 47:00 was surrounding him it's just a tragedy you know because I know what difference should and and so uh but uh yeah it went away for a little while but it's back right back and it's strong and uh people are looking at it different and so I have nothing negative to say about anybody because I just think that's wasted energy I just think we all did what we did uh and sometimes I can be
• 47:00 - 47:30 wrong about certain things the next person can be wrong about certain things it's just how you know it's how you deal with the present you know and and how it can death row be seen differently with the new generation and so we're about to see am I at my last I started my last company when I was about 25 years old and we grew we had dozens of employees and the average age at one point was like 23 24 25 and I was the
• 47:30 - 48:00 adult in the room I don't drink I don't party I don't do any drugs I'm completely sober but a lot of my people would and it was a creative business and whenever they would start drinking and stuff I would always have to put someone in charge and I'd be like hey I got to get out of here I don't want to be around this um and like managing young people particularly in a party environment and particularly creatives that's a challenge you have to like give them the lanes to stay within and let them be free within those lanes and from an
• 48:00 - 48:30 outside perspective you dealt with that times 10. you know they were just drinking and um you know making bad decisions at the bar some you know Snoop got um he was in trouble for um there was some some some worse stuff that was happening and all those guys had issues what's that like managing creative wild guys well you know it's called putting out the fires but you know you spoke about Snoop he was designerated he's got that case too so yeah and I'm not saying he did anything I'm just saying that's
• 48:30 - 49:00 hard managing I imagine it was challenging managing creative people who also had a wild side or sometimes would be uh in a circle of of getting in trouble regardless if they did it or not what what in that in that particular in music or any creative I just think that you have to take people where they are you know and so what happens is if you take away if you take away something it takes away something and so we all get to elevate in life and
• 49:00 - 49:30 so who you were and what you came from and the condition that the way you were conditioned to see the world all of that had something to do with the way the music was made and so I'm not justifying behavior of any kind I'm just saying that you start where you start and if you look at what you're talking about about some of the conduct that different individuals uh participated in early on and you look at them now
• 49:30 - 50:00 you know these guys are philapathists they they they have Charities they have foundations they have they they they change they help and motivated Mentor other people in their careers so yeah yeah that throw was all of that and that's what made it exciting and that was the energy that it possessed and but it grew and some people blur and some people didn't and some people went up and some people went down and it's just it's you know you're
• 50:00 - 50:30 talking about a Shakespeare and play I mean you there is no other you know it's just you know a lot of people lost their lives and careers and a lot of people became quite wealthy as well so it's just a combination of it all you know so the story is still being told do you think that that creating death row is is that there the thing you're most proud of career-wise well my career is not over sir and so so far yeah so
• 50:30 - 51:00 far I just think that it's the most impactful uh good bad like I said good bad it's yeah I can go somewhere and you know people from all over the world recognize the brand and uh and and I and you'll be surprised people from high up in different uh parts of this Society classes Society has told me that when they were in college or whatever they were doing that that music dude I listen to it all I know every word to
• 51:00 - 51:30 California love to hit them up I mean I know all these words I I grew up in Missouri as a you know as a 12 year old white kid in Missouri I don't relate I mean I don't experience what they experienced but like there was a rebellious side of me where I go I want to stick it to the man I wanna and I I like what I loved about Pac in particular here's one of my hero I love that he accomplished so much what how old was I think he died in September of what 96. yeah um he he was he was 25 he
• 51:30 - 52:00 was a young guy and he had she had an Artful side to him you know these old interviews when he's 18 19 when he's talking about uh I think Jada Smith or um and talking about like you see the love that he has for this woman he's being Artful and he's talking about um like Brenda had a baby these songs are like real issues but then he also got he got charged with rape and he also was you know the whole Hit Em Up thing and with with all these other guys he was fighting and what I love about him is that he was a flawed character who was mostly good and he redeemed himself
• 52:00 - 52:30 like he would screw up and then he was a he was a rich character and I was drawn to that I'm like I got flaws you know I had substance abuse issues and I overcame him and I did all this stuff and I was drawn by people who screwed up and overcame and then maybe screwed up again and overcame and had this rebellious bold part of it and that's why I was drawn to it even though I can't relate anything to selling drugs or to work any of that well even some of those charges like yo with Tupac we're not here to defend a revisit the case
• 52:30 - 53:00 but we know that a lot of times you you have to guard the people that surround you as as much as you guard the food that you digest and sometimes you could be a big big name person and other people around you could do something that you get it because you're the you're the easy victim you know you're the one with the big paycheck or you're the one with the big name and sometimes you you suffer the consequences of the people that you allow in your circle so it's important to always be conscious of
• 53:00 - 53:30 that because uh a lot of times I mean he was rebellious he fought back he fought against he was raised he was conditioned to do so but at the same time A lot of times things were put on him that really didn't have nothing to do with it but at a young age at a real young age when you have the spotlight I mean he was famous since he was really young and I admire that it was famous it was very talented and like you said we all flawed and and so it's just we're human beings and then
• 53:30 - 54:00 when you go back and you look at the age if you look at somebody is 25 years agent now and you'll be like wow this kid accomplished this much and he was able to have this type of mindset and was able to be able to translate that into the music I mean come on I mean this is just and everybody that worked with him always tell me about he was a consummate's uh a professional you know hey you know we got a push we got to make this happen and uh you know he you know it was something else and he was prolific he had all those albums at such
• 54:00 - 54:30 a young age he was prolific so I I identified with those characters even though on paper there wasn't a lot that I could relate to but I identify with their maybe not identified but I admired them I was like dudes guys at Young ages changing cultures and I think it was that's interesting it's funny he's saying that because uh my thing is I think it's I think it's infectious I think the sound the energy was
• 54:30 - 55:00 infectious so you didn't have to actually come from that particular culture to to Really identify it just it it met you where you was it provides you with some energy that helped you do whatever you were trying to do it was I think it's more about the energy that it possessed you know like uh people you know who garyvee is Gary vaynerchuk right he's you know people I watch him sometimes they get amped when I'm having a bad day and then but when I was younger it was I would listen to hit him up or something it's like you know what I'm saying like it it gave me it gave me
• 55:00 - 55:30 fuel to to get back on track and so I thought it I mean I I just love that stuff I also that's why I like startups I like people who are just nerds playing on the computer and they they create Bitcoin or you know what I'm saying like they create something that sticks It To The Man and even though they're just you know in Silicon Valley in an office whereas you guys were down there and and um uh writing music it's like it's still kind of a rebellious energy of US versus
• 55:30 - 56:00 the world that I I think is infectious I I think there's quite relatable uh the uh a lot of the internet Tech uh entrepreneurs but that that whole you know creating something out of nothing uh I think it's relatable for uh people in the hip-hop business you know creating something that was was meant for a particular Circle that went outside the circle and and affected the world and so same way with these young
• 56:00 - 56:30 enterprising uh uh Engineers who uh create something that we all use like the phones and the different apps and and now that whole world is merging and trying to find this place so it's quite interesting and to see how it all falls out you know a lot of big companies have been displaced because of the internet and don't know how to find a place and it allows for new merging uh creative minds to take its place so I'm excited
• 56:30 - 57:00 about what the future holds I have a lot of takeaways from talking to you it's just like I think that a lot of entrepreneurs like myself I'm real emotional you know like you're into the Arts and building businesses is my art and people who are sometimes artistic I go up and down I get real sad sometimes I get real happy you know I'm not calm like you are all the time I'm trying to work on my calmness just to be a little more steady you know you were
• 57:00 - 57:30 you experienced a lot harder stuff than I have and you have remained you have this cool attitude I said it's like Clint Eastwood and so uh I think you kind of inspired me to be calmer well I think with me in particular you know I was in a situation where it was quite volatile and I had a conversation with god and and um I felt that I reached an understanding and and at one point I said if I never go home from here and I never live another day just the fact
• 57:30 - 58:00 that I know who the Creator was and I was thankful for what God has done for us as to and what we had to do to even be bored and so the miracle of our birth and how important that is to to live up to that and so you can't help but to be calm once you know that each person is is considered a miracle it's just for you to live up to it and that's another thing you got a good attitude you got a really good attitude
• 58:00 - 58:30 it makes me I I get calm being around you and I feel more optimistic uh and I also uh you know I've always been fascinated by these people who are a little mysterious there's a little more there's always a little more behind that you don't even know and they're always got something up their sleeve some good story or some cool experience that they've had and uh I get that vibe from you and it inspires me a little bit I think it's cool I also think um you know last night the Grammys were on and uh I think it was they had the they did
• 58:30 - 59:00 like the 50 years of hip-hop and the Ghetto boys were on singing one of their songs and um they got the uh they had this one line where they go uh real gangsters don't flex nuts because they know they got them and uh that's uh that's kind of how I feel about you is uh when you're when you're you know when you're like the guy you don't gotta say you're the guy yeah yeah you yeah you are who you are and then and trust me uh when you're in situations like I've been in you know it's it's you know you're
• 59:00 - 59:30 gonna raise you're gonna rise to the top or you're gonna fall to the bottom you know it's just you know and it was weird being there and being away and like I said especially early on was very dangerous but I come from a certain type of community and I conducted myself a certain kind of way and I was able to get through it without a scar and then later on to be able to be there when Chris and other people like Chris and his wife Beverly was able to create programs where people could really
• 59:30 - 60:00 engage and and recognize real change in themselves uh so I haven't seen it go from you know where you can't even you don't know if you're going to live the next day to a man it's gotta get prepared for the outside world so you know so and I'm glad uh Chris introduced us uh last mile is a very uh Progressive uh program let's teach people how to code while it is
• 60:00 - 60:30 so prepare them for job opportunities when they get out in the uh Tech world so man I appreciate you doing this this is awesome where uh you have an Instagram is that where people is that where you connect with people most well yeah the uh was the official Hario uh did you see it the official Hario I think that's what it was it looked like it was you posted yeah yeah Michael herrio Harris the official herio on Instagram I mean you have 41 000
• 60:30 - 61:00 followers there it looks like a picture of you on a private jet or some type of Sprinter van I don't know what you're doing smoking a vape it's a vapor rabbit but yeah you know what that's the that's the uh official uh uh Instagram but I'll let you I'll let you know when I set up the podcast I can talk to you all day yeah I like getting to know you better because I want to ask you all these stories but I want to be respectful you
• 61:00 - 61:30 know uh because I look up to you so much but there's so many stories that you have that you know you could talk for hours and hours and hours I'm sure well as long as it's an exchange like I said I'm gonna be set up to be able to invite you on my show and I want to ask you about some of the enterprising things that you've done that would be an open book for you to be able to ask me different questions that come up and and different things that we're going to be involved in a lot of things that we we're going to launch this year I can't speak about it as yet in film projects
• 61:30 - 62:00 as well but next time we talk some of it will be uh came to fruition and we'll be able to talk about it hey and I got stories too just every story you have divided by 10 and that might be as exciting as my stories but you're not gonna feed me that actually I'm getting into the podcast world because of what you do and and people like yourself and the way you bring uh insight to to the business world so I'm looking forward to being in
• 62:00 - 62:30 that lane with you all right all right I appreciate it man you're awesome thank you I really look up to you thanks for doing that appreciate you thank you for the opportunity [Music] foreign