Understanding Vocational Competence and Industry Currency

Summary

This webinar, presented by Russell Docking, explores the differences between vocational competence and industry currency within the context of the Standards for Registered Training Organizations (RTOs). Docking discusses credential requirements for VET trainers and assessors, emphasizing the importance of understanding both vocational competence and industry currency to maintain high training standards. He explains that vocational competence involves possessing industry knowledge, expertise, and experience relevant to the units of competency being delivered and assessed, while industry currency refers to having up-to-date industry skills and knowledge about current industry practices. The session also outlines professional development strategies to ensure trainers and assessors remain current and qualified.

Highlights

• Russell Docking highlights the distinction between vocational competence and industry currency. 🤔
• Vocational competence is not just having a qualification; it involves hands-on industry experience. 👷‍♀️
• Industry currency requires trainers to stay connected with current industry trends and practices. 🌐
• Understanding these aspects is vital for RTO compliance with national standards. 🇦🇺
• Trainers must engage in continuous professional development to enhance their skills and knowledge. 📚

Key Takeaways

• Understanding the difference between vocational competence and industry currency is crucial for VET trainers. 🎓
• Vocational competence is about having the necessary skills and experience in a particular industry. 🛠
• Industry currency ensures you're updated with the latest industry practices and standards. 📅
• Engage with industry regularly to maintain currency of your skills and knowledge. 🤝
• Professional development is key to maintaining both competence and currency. 📈

Overview

Russell Docking, in an informative webinar, delves into the often-confused realms of vocational competence and industry currency, aiming to clarify their nuances and significance in the vocational education and training sector. He breaks down these complex concepts in an engaging manner, highlighting their distinct roles in ensuring the effectiveness and compliance of training programs.

Vocational competence, as Docking explains, is rooted in the industry knowledge and hands-on experience that trainers and assessors bring to the table. It’s not just about what you know but also what you can do, reflecting the real-world application of skills. This ensures that the educators are not just theoretically sound but also practically capable of imparting relevant knowledge.

In contrast, industry currency focuses on the need for trainers to stay updated with the latest trends and practices in their respective fields. It emphasizes the importance of continuous industry engagement, thus ensuring that the training delivered is relevant and up-to-date with current industry standards, thereby aligning educational outcomes with actual workforce demands.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:00: Introduction and Webinar Overview The chapter titled 'Introduction and Webinar Overview' begins with a greeting from Mel Hartley, the Senior Locations and Regulation Officer at the Tony Accreditation Council. Mel welcomes participants to a webinar focused on understanding vocational confidence and industry currency. The chapter opens with an acknowledgment of the traditional custodians of the land.
• 01:00 - 03:00: Credentials and Standards for VET Trainers The speaker acknowledges the indigenous Wajak people and their contributions to the city and region. Russell Docking is introduced as the presenter for the session, expressing gratitude for the setup and a welcoming note to the large audience present.
• 03:00 - 04:30: Vocational Competence and Equivalence This chapter introduces the workshop on vocational competence and industry currency. It notes the common confusion among RTOs in distinguishing between these two concepts, even though they are both parts of standard 113. The focus is on exploring and clarifying these aspects to enhance understanding and application in the relevant industries.
• 04:30 - 06:00: Current Industry Skills The chapter titled "Current Industry Skills" discusses the importance of recognizing diverse industry expertise. It emphasizes how various skills and knowledge brought by trainers and assessors can enhance the learning experience for students in vocational education and training (VET). The chapter also outlines the credentials and requirements necessary for VET trainers, aiming to highlight the unique contributions of diverse industry experiences.
• 06:00 - 07:30: Processes for Establishing Competency This chapter discusses the processes for establishing competency, particularly focusing on the role of assessors in vocational competence. It highlights the concept of demonstrating equivalence to vocational providence, acknowledging that while this can be complex, the goal is to make it understandable and workable. The chapter also notes the structure of a workshop, mentioning a brief break between discussions on vocational competence and industry currency to maintain engagement over the two-hour session.
• 07:30 - 09:00: Professional Development and Industry Engagement The chapter titled 'Professional Development and Industry Engagement' discusses the importance of maintaining industry currency and vocational competency for professional development. It emphasizes the significance of staying updated with industry standards and practices to ensure effective performance in professional roles, particularly for trainers and assessors in the VET (Vocational Education and Training) sector. The chapter also addresses the issue of supervision and provides guidance on handling situations where an individual may not have all the necessary qualifications to perform their duties. It encourages individuals to view themselves in a proactive role concerning their professional growth and industry engagement.
• 09:00 - 10:30: Supervision and Certification This chapter discusses the foundational elements of vocational education and training (VET), specifically focusing on the supervision and certification processes. It highlights the equestrian qualifications framework that bridges VET and higher education, detailing the sophistication levels of training products that emerge from both sectors. The chapter also mentions the role of training packages in the certification process.
• 10:30 - 12:00: Questions and Resources This chapter discusses the alignment of educational qualifications with workplace requirements, focusing on vocational education and training (VET). The content is drawn from observations of workplace practices to ensure that the training provided meets the actual needs of different vocations. The chapter details how qualifications are defined in terms of units of competency. These units are specified according to a set of standards and requirements to ensure that they accurately reflect what is needed in the workplace.

Understanding Vocational Competence and Industry Currency Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 foreign my name is Mel Hartley and I'm the senior locations and regulation officer here at the Tony accreditation Council and I would like you I'd like to welcome you to this webinar on understanding vocational confidence and Industry currency at this time I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land we are meeting on
• 00:30 - 01:00 the wajak people we wish to acknowledge and respect their continuing culture and the contribution they make to the life of this city and this region without further Ado I'd like to introduce Russell docking who is our presenter for today thank you very much Russell thank you very much well and thank you very much Mel for setting this all up and getting it in such good shape and welcome everybody it's um wonderful to see such a huge number of people
• 01:00 - 01:30 participating in this and it's a lovely way to work with you although I always say it's nicer to be face to face so um welcome to this workshop and we're going to be looking any vocational competence and Industry currency and it's interesting to see that these are two parts of standard 113 and yet the many rtos can't fire quite distinguish between vocational competence and Industry currency uh and
• 01:30 - 02:00 part of the purpose of today's Workshop is to help you to see how they're different because each of these Concepts brings a different uh quality of Industry expertise to the expertise that and that a trainer and assessor brings to share with students so with our program for today is to discuss uh first of all the credentials uh requirements of vet trainers and
• 02:00 - 02:30 assessors um and then look at vocational competence and how one might demonstrate equivalence to vocational Providence the concept of equivalence is quite tricky and uh but it needn't be it we will try to make sure that it's clear and clear-cut and something that you can work with effectively will probably take a little five minute break between vocational competence and Industry currency um just uh because it is a two-hour workshop and a little break would be a kindness and then we'll move on to
• 02:30 - 03:00 Industry currency what to consider in relation to that professional development which is in part about keeping your vocational competency and your industry currency up to scratch and then finally touch on the topic of supervision what can you do when a person doesn't have all the necessary qualifications to be able to undertake their responsibilities as a trainer and assessor in the vet sector uh it's important to say yourselves as
• 03:00 - 03:30 the basically the the ground rock upon which vet stands um and they have a situation here where we have the equestrian qualifications framework which of course spans both uh vet and higher education um and gives us a a specification of the level of sophistication of training Products that come through the vet sector and also through the higher education sector but then we have training packages which
• 03:30 - 04:00 are drawn from an observation of what is required in workplaces so because we're vocational in our education on training we look to vocations to what happens in the workplace the work that people do uh to Define qualifications and within those qualifications units of competency those units of Competency are specified according to a set of standards and requirements uh be they units of
• 04:00 - 04:30 Competency or at least some cases modules uh as defined might be defined in accredited courses all of this as I was saying by vet regulatory authorities uh there's Esquire of course is the National Authority um dealing with Most states and then there are the independent authorities in Western Australia and in Victoria uh all these authorities are responsible to see that the standards for rtos are sustained and the standards for rtos
• 04:30 - 05:00 which of course is a very familiar uh document to you um is what we'll be referring to from time to time as we go through this because it's within these standards that the concepts of vocational competence and Industry currents on current industry skills are discussed um then there's registered training organizations and register training organizations or organizations recognized by vet regulatory authorities
• 05:00 - 05:30 uh to deliver training uh to of the training products uh and uh to meet the standards in a to a standard defined by the standards for rtos and finally but most importantly there are yourselves the qualified trainers and assessors without you all of the above would not be would be pointless fundamentally if we are going to have a quality system it's that interface between you and your learners that is so
• 05:30 - 06:00 critical in terms of quality and so having qualified trainers and assessors is the most crucial part of the of the pyramid if you like as it happens it's a kind of an accident that it's a pyramid but the Pyramid of of quality that we have in the vet sector and I must say as an aside that this is quite significantly different to what happens in higher education in our education they do have the aqf they have the Australian qualifications
• 06:00 - 06:30 framework because it does cover higher education qualifications but they don't have an equivalent to training packages in other words they don't have uh national standards for qualifications they don't have national standards for units of Competency they do have regulatory authorities but they are very self-referential that is the University of defiance its own standards and then it can be assessed against its own standards so they don't have standards for rtos that that are other than those
• 06:30 - 07:00 that are self-referential universities do not need to comply with therefore with formal standards such as registered training organizations might and it's not common for University lecturers to be qualified as trainers Educators or assessors so the vet sector is quite different to the higher education sector and you'll also see later on that in terms of outcomes from the training um that is provided both or by event or
• 07:00 - 07:30 in higher education there is also a significant difference in the in terms of outcomes So within the vet sector we have a very different kind of structure uh very strong kind of structure for quality assurance and and all of those quality structures stand on the qualifications of trainers and assessors when we look at the qualification requirements for trainers and assessors we find those in in standards uh the
• 07:30 - 08:00 standards for rtos Clauses 113 114 115 and 116. and 113 talks is in three parts and it talks about vocational competence it doesn't say you have to have the unit of Competency it says you have to have the vocational competence and that's kind of a let out because it basically says uh equivalent components will be will be acceptable that is you need to have the skills and knowledge that you're teaching
• 08:00 - 08:30 the second item says that you need to have current industry skills and the current industry skills are clearly different to vocational competence and it's part of the purpose of this Workshop to clarify the distinction between vocational competence on the one hand and current industry skills on the other and then you need to have current Knowledge and Skills in vet and it's understood that as an item four on this slide that you are qualified as a vet trainer and assessor that is you've done
• 08:30 - 09:00 your Tae and uh and therefore have the actual qualifications but the fields of Education and Training uh continually change and so what is required to understand the 113c is that you sustain your current Knowledge and Skills in vet that is you keep up to date with them and a workshop like this is one way in which you can do that standard 114 and 115 talks about you having to have the Tae uh qualification
• 09:00 - 09:30 either the latest version or the 2016 version or the earlier version the 2010 version with uh with uh other units of Competency the language literacy and numeracy qualified competency and the assessment competency the uh the um the the diploma level assessment qualifa unit of competency um but finally under 116 it talks about you need to be actively participating in
• 09:30 - 10:00 professional development it doesn't specifically say for all of the above but it basically talks about professional development that contributes to your work as a trainer and assessor so would follow that all of the above is what is required that is you need to keep your vocational skills up to date you need to keep your industry skills current you need to keep your Knowledge and Skills in vet current um and that automatically means that you are keeping your vet trainer an assessment qualifications current
• 10:00 - 10:30 now all of this is discussed also in the tech fact sheet there's a fact sheet for this particular unit for this particular workshop and you'll find that's been discussed on page one of that fact sheet and I draw your attention to the fact shaders useful follow-up reading so in the standards for rtos you can see precisely what I've just been saying Clause 113 talks about vocational competencies and current industry skills
• 10:30 - 11:00 uh it also talks about other things but we're now focusing on what's in our Workshop today and those are the two areas that we're going to focus on today uh and you'll notice that um when it talks about this it talks about relevant to the level being delivered and assessed which does mean that when we're talking about vocational competencies we're talking about relevant to the units of Competency that you're teaching and to the level of sophistication that you're teaching and that would mean
• 11:00 - 11:30 effectively an aqf level uh ins of some kind or other and when it comes to current industry skills again it's talking about directly relevant but attending an assessment being that that you are providing there is another Clause that makes reference to current industry skills and that is Clause 1.6 which occurs much earlier in the standards themselves and there is talking about industry engagement and it basically says that you need to make sure that you are
• 11:30 - 12:00 engaged with industry to sustain your current industry skills so industry engagement is not just about industry looking at what you're doing it's about you looking at what industry is doing so that you can retain your current industry skills and we'll come back to that notion after our little break when we're looking at current industry skills and what that has to say but it's really important to understand a couple of things here quite early the first is these are things that need to
• 12:00 - 12:30 be sustained these are not things that you that you acquire and then can just uh rest on there forever you need to keep these qualities up to date but the least reason being uh that that the units of Competency you teach also evolve they change industry requirements change so these are qualities that change and you need to change with them which is why Clause 116 which we'll touch on later on when we deal with professional development is requiring
• 12:30 - 13:00 you to keep up to date with these qualities so these are things that you need to keep nurturing things that you keep need to keep um developing the second thing I need to say is that you don't maintain these simply by being a trainer assessor then the Clause 1.6 is reminding you that to in order to sustain these qualities you need to be out and about you need to be out in Industry seeing what is happening in Industry being a trainer and assessor
• 13:00 - 13:30 does not mean that you are sustaining your vocational competencies encourages current industry skills you need to get out in order to make sure that those are maintained so let's now look at the first of our two excuse me areas vocational competence and uh when we look at this we can see uh first of all that vocational confidence is uh can be defined in terms of Industry knowledge expertise and
• 13:30 - 14:00 experience in the units of Competency to be delivered and assessed they may be combined with relevant industry qualifications as well as relevant and current experience in industry and they need to be considered on an industry by industry basis as well as a unit by unit basis so if the unit of carbons you're delivering is used by a number of different Industries then you as a trainer and assessor represent those different Industries and you need to be aware of how numbers is used that's more
• 14:00 - 14:30 about comp current industry skills which we'll deal with later but it does stress the point that we need to understand where the competency is used in order to understand how it is a vocational competency within itself so I need to remember all the time that all of these units of Competency and when we talk about vocational competency we're talking about workplaces we're talking about um qualities that are found in
• 14:30 - 15:00 workplaces and indeed units of Competency of course are driven by and defined by what happens in the workplace and that has a couple of implications the first is that um when a new unit of Competency is created no one has a certificate for it and therefore nobody can teach it but there are clearly people who have those competencies because they came from the workplace and therefore we can talk about equivalence we can say well
• 15:00 - 15:30 although you haven't got this qualification because it has up or this unit of Competency because until now it hasn't existed nonetheless because you have been involved in the workplace in some way or other you may well have this unit of Competency and therefore you could argue that you have equivalent confidence and we'll come back to that motion in a bit more full fully a bit later on the other thing about it is means that you can talk about recognition of Prior learning that is
• 15:30 - 16:00 you can have a Workforce who although they're not certificated actually do have those units of Competency and need no not be trained because they have the competencies which were used to define the competencies so there's a lovely kind of natural Justice here that since our competencies come from workplaces come from what people do in workplaces then that means that there are people already able to teach those competencies and they're already people who could be
• 16:00 - 16:30 qualified if we were to assess them against those competencies because they've been working in those same workplaces so it's an important quality of that that because we are industry driven and Industry sourced it does mean that we can understand the ideas of equivalence and competence because that's where these competencies come from if we look at the next slide then we can see that when it comes to vocational
• 16:30 - 17:00 competency there are basically two ways of demonstrating it and the first is of course if you have the unit of Competency itself and here I would want to say that you either have the unit of Competency or you have the unit of Competency that is specified as equivalent in that unit of Competency and so it's quite possible that you have either the unit of Competency or the one stated in that unit of Competency as equivalent
• 17:00 - 17:30 um if you don't have those then you are going to have to demonstrate equivalence and so we do need to talk a bit now about what equivalence of Competency equivalence means as I've already indicated uh it is basically means that you may well have acquired the unit of Competency not actually acquired it in a formal sense but is in a in an informal sense through work that you've done in the workplace
• 17:30 - 18:00 or activities that you've undertakes taken since leaving the workplace so when it comes to uh competency equivalence can be demonstrated because you have the previous version of the unit of Competency that's been declared equivalent to the equivalent one or to the current one I should say a training package or you can share that from your previous training and experiences that you can demonstrate all of the requirements of the current unit of competency and that
• 18:00 - 18:30 is that I've emphasized the word all here because that means that you need to be able to show that you have all of the elements of Competency and therefore their performance criteria are things that you can demonstrate uh all of any all of any foundation skills that might be just defined all of any performance evidence requirements and also all of the knowledge although I might say that knowledge is something reasonably easily Acquired and
• 18:30 - 19:00 so the focus would tend to be on those things which take longer to require which are the skills and the performance evidence requirements so under those circumstances when we look at equivalence we say well the knowledge you can get easily you can get it from um from Google for that matter you can get it from uh all sorts of sources but the skills are things that you need to practice and perform and so it's the skills that we would tend to
• 19:00 - 19:30 focus on primarily in establishing equivalence but there's not process of equivalence is not a formal assessment and it's not an RPL process so that at the end of the process of equivalence you can't be awarded the unit of Competency the process we're going to describe here is a kind of mapping or matching process and it does not form meet the all of the principles and rules of evidence that fundamentally is not going to be a
• 19:30 - 20:00 formal assessment process and under those circumstances what you can establish for equivalence is that you are fit to teach that unit of Competency but to be awarded that unit of Competency you would have to go through a formal assessment process so thinking about the process we recognize first that is a mapping or matching exercise and for some reason or other it didn't change again there we go um and so the first thing to do is to
• 20:00 - 20:30 list all the requirements of the units of Competency this is not for unlike doing a mapping when you're planning an assessment process so now what you're talking about is yourself rather than some assessment processes or tools or resources so you start by listing all the requirements of the unit of Competency then you need a list or match to uh that each requirement your previous training and or experiences that demonstrate that you meet each requirement
• 20:30 - 21:00 uh and then secondly you need to have an appropriate person verify the evidence that you provided that is to make sure uh that uh the decision uh of equivalence is is a decision based on evidence uh of course if in that process you identify the gaps well you don't just sit around and say oh well that's how sad what you do is take immediate action to close them and that means that you may need to go back into the workplace
• 21:00 - 21:30 uh to have a look at what is going on even to do what is going on or you might need to take some further training but what you can't have is gaps uh in your in your in your skills and knowledge because after all uh when when it comes to working with these things you're going to be training these qualities to students so the Rules of Evidence uh apply to this process first of all validity the
• 21:30 - 22:00 verifier uh first of all assures that I have the skills that you have the skills knowledge and attributes as described in the modular unit of Competency and made all the associated assessment requirements then their sufficiency the verifier is assured that the Quality quality and relevance of your evidence enables a judgment to be made of your equivalent competency firmly authenticity the verifier is assured that the evidence presented for review is all their own work
• 22:00 - 22:30 and currency the verifiers assured that the evidence demonstrates that your current equivalent of your current equivalent competency not some past history this requires evidence to be from the present or from the very recent past and and I'm asked a question by Jared Jared who would be considered an appropriate person well the appropriate person is a person who would be able to make these calls
• 22:30 - 23:00 that is is the evidence that I'm looking at relevant to the qualities of this unit of Competency is the evidence I'm looking at sufficient in terms of quality quantity and relevance so the the verifier is going to be a bit like an auditor as an auditor I'm able to review your assessment processes even though I'm not an expert in your field because I'm able to look at the assessment tools and I'm able to look at the unit of Competency and answer the question
• 23:00 - 23:30 whether or not what you're doing is valid sufficient authentic and current in terms of the evidence that you would gather it's the same sort of process so the person who is the a an appropriate person is going to be a person who is vet qualified themselves that is they have their Tae qualifications they are not necessarily have the vocational competence of this area but would be able to look at the evidence you're providing and the requirements of the
• 23:30 - 24:00 unit and see that they matched and of course keeping in mind that there's a kind of bootstraps effect here that is fundamentally when a new unit of Competency comes into existence nobody has it therefore there is nobody who can be called a qualified trainer an assessor and under those circumstances equivalence has to be done and that is by this process of analysis that we're describing here so you can see that their process is one
• 24:00 - 24:30 that is um uh uh is uh is a process of just checking what was some words here well um uh but it's a process that does require that kind of analysis and therefore an appropriate person is going to be a person who can conduct that analysis it will be within the organization uh or from outside the organization if you're a very small RTO uh a uh a person who
• 24:30 - 25:00 maybe delivers in a different area but is qualified as a vet trainer and assessor and is able to make these kinds of judgments on the basis of evidence you provide but it really is important that they be independent in the sense that that it is not a self-assessment that you're doing here it is that you are demonstrating to some other person of course what needs to happen then is this evidence this record of evidence uh and the Judgment that has been made is
• 25:00 - 25:30 something would need to be able to be seen by an auditor to confirm the processes you're using in some organizations they have what's called a training and assessment competent trainer and assessment competency Matrix attackum is it's often it's the acronym that's used and within that attack and within that try and earn assessor competency Matrix is usually provided the evidence of equivalence so you would see against a particular unit of
• 25:30 - 26:00 Competency that either the person has the unit or they have the unit that is declared as equivalent to it or they haven't but have established equivalence through a process of that was described in the previous slide of of listing the requirements of the unit of Competency listing and providing evidence of previous training and experiences that they can be used to demonstrate that they made each requirement uh if there were any gaps
• 26:00 - 26:30 there would be evidence that you would take an action to close those gaps through either further training and or for some specific experiences and then we would expect to see that the document was signed off by another person who was a qualified in the vet sector who hadn't analyzed the data against the The Rules of Evidence to establish that there was valid sufficient authentic and current
• 26:30 - 27:00 evidence of um of your qualities in relation to these components so we have a couple of examples here that we could look at and what I'm going to do is to suggest that you have a look at Activity one Activity one is uh a single page document it has the uh green bands across the middle and what it does there is provide an example of evidence
• 27:00 - 27:30 for uh four units of a bigger pattern five units of Competency for an individual now um this is one of the illustrations and we do have a second illustration which we call activity two uh and uh one of the units of Competency which will focus on in a moment or two which is design and develop learning resources uh those of you in the know will realize
• 27:30 - 28:00 that that is now a superseded unit we've hanged on to it simply because for demonstration purposes but of course you would not be looking at a superseded unit if you're really looking at equivalence um uh in in real life but for the purposes of this Workshop we will stick with this one uh end in Activity one you have a number of units of Competency design and develop assessment tools design develop learning resources evaluate a training
• 28:00 - 28:30 program and other tag organizational training training and training needs and Analysis and fundamentally what we're looking at in this example is evidence that's been provided in the third column of equivalence and then some comments and what we're asking you to do is to review this information and decide whether or not you think the evidence provided meets the rules of evidence that we showed you in the previous slide and what we'll do is just take five
• 28:30 - 29:00 minutes now to for you to have a look at that and then we can have a a brief discussion uh on what you've observed so for each of these uh particular requirements the question is has equivalence been demonstrated for each of these five units we'll come back to that in five minutes let's take a break okay folks um let's uh resume uh and uh see how you've gone with that review of
• 29:00 - 29:30 Activity one um and before we do though I understand from Mel that there are some questions that people would like answered so Mel would you like to put those questions to me yes definitely okay so uh first of all how many hours is needed to complete uh in workplace for industry currency in child care okay we're going to be looking at industry currency a bit later on but if we're talking about vocational
• 29:30 - 30:00 competency um uh it's a difficult one to answer um uh the I think what we would want to look at is that within the units of Competency there is usually a specification of ours if I recall correctly I think it's about 120 hours um so one could take that as a kind of guide a kind of Benchmark uh because after all what we're saying is that if a student has been immersed in a workplace for 120 hours and I'm assuming 120 hours
• 30:00 - 30:30 is about right um then under those circumstances we're going to argue that if you'd have 120 hours of experience in child care then um you would be on par with that required of a student so look for the unit of Competency to get some sense of what would be expected um as a guide to what is expected it also comes it will come up when we're talking about current industry skills um because there there is a question of
• 30:30 - 31:00 immersion as well because we would want to know that you had spent enough time in the workplace to understand not just what the vocational competencies were but how those vocational competencies were used so try try as best you can to look for the unit of competencies that you're dealing with or and the qualifications with which you're dealing because sometimes hours are associated with qualifications rather than with specific units of competency
• 31:00 - 31:30 what was the next qualification um um okay we've got two more questions does this mean PE from other units of Competency that you hold uh it could do uh if if those performance evidence requirements were related um uh so it's always the case that the qualities within a unit of Competency are transferables along as they're relevant and one of the issues that we
• 31:30 - 32:00 often have is that you can have two items in the performance or items in a performance evidence requirement that look like those uh that relate to another unit of Competency but are contextually different and under those circumstances they would not be transferable qualities these are all judgment decisions that need to be made and Justified and in a sense um we are expecting that there is going to be a little bit of app on a but it um I don't
• 32:00 - 32:30 want to use the word sloppiness but I do want to say um variability which is why this does not lead to the awarding of the unit of Competency it's because this is um a a statement of um of on the basis of evidence but it's evidence that does not necessarily meet the full principles of assessment and the Rules of Evidence in an assessment context so in the slide where I talked about the Rules of Evidence I was talking about the Rules of Evidence within the context
• 32:30 - 33:00 of equivalence when we start talking about the Rules of Evidence within the context of assessment you'll notice that the wording is slightly different um uh because we're there we're talking about something very much more hard-nosed as a process for determining actual competency so here we're only determining equivalence we're not determining confidence uh if we were determining confidence it would have to meet standard 1.8 and it would be a formal assessment process so we we will
• 33:00 - 33:30 find here that oh I've a question about the number of hours in child care it's a question of uh almost a question of persuasion is there a good case is there if you like a prima facing case that says this person has equivalent confidence and therefore can be asked to deliver training to students that they will then assess against very formal processes so that competencies can be
• 33:30 - 34:00 awarded so you may have equivalence which enables you to teach but if you want the unit you're going to have to go through and assess a formal assessment process and you can see that there's a nuanced difference between the two um and so the questions like the transfer of performance evidence requirements or the hours of time is being spent is a matter of judgment uh and uh at this stage not a formal assessment process
• 34:00 - 34:30 were there any other questions Mel one more question from Mark so no need to go granular down to the performance criteria level no but you would need to be able to mark um so you would not in a formal written sense go down to Performance Criterion level but if you say you have a unit a big apartment if you say you have an element of Competency it's because the evidence shows that the the the qualities of that element have been seen
• 34:30 - 35:00 uh or have been demonstrated now what that or or have been used within the context of the workplace so it's beholden to the person doing the analysis to say to the the the that independent person uh who's doing the analysis that appropriate person is doing the analysis to be able to say to the person seeking equivalence you claim to have through this experience this element of Competency are these qualities qualities of what you did
• 35:00 - 35:30 because the performance criteria are basically the way in which the element is defined and therefore if we are climbing the element you must automatically be claiming its performance criteria and so you wouldn't map that out you wouldn't write that out it would be tedious to the extreme but then you should not claim an element of Competency unless you can say that in the in my experience either in the workplace or through training I actually
• 35:30 - 36:00 have all the demonstrated all these qualities so Mark uh it's not so much that you do it it's that you have the potential to do it and it has an auditor in order to good reasonably say um if they had a doubt about an individual's equivalence they would reasonably able to say yes but um are all these qualities qualities that with with which you're familiar and that you're able to perform
• 36:00 - 36:30 so when we look at Activity one thank you for those questions incidentally and when we look at Activity one you can see that indeed the evidence is awfully thin uh so if we look at the responses to these have equivalence been demonstrated to the first one which is 502 what are the answers Mel okay so the lows are winning but there are some people and there are no responses which a large number of rare responses which could mean that uh people haven't gotten to
• 36:30 - 37:00 the question or a good name that people are not sure um but the answer the response is more strongly now than yes um it basically uh the the evidence provided is not sufficiently detailed enough to be able to make that call if we look at the second one which is design and develop assessment resources can we get a poll on that Mill okay I'll show the responses now
• 37:00 - 37:30 thank you Mel okay now this time the answer is more strongly in the yes Direction and the answer would be yes because this person basically has the equivalent unit so that the tades 502 unit replaces uh its equivalent which is the TAA b e s s zero two bit five five five gigabyte 502b um and and in a 502 unit it basically
• 37:30 - 38:00 says the 502 B unit is equivalent uh so we would accept that as as equivalent because that is what we're being told by the training package what about the next one they evaluate a training program okay there's a bit of a mixed view here uh they're fairly close in in terms of voting between yes and no um the the the the fact is that the detail is not there
• 38:00 - 38:30 um they in other words there hasn't been a listing of the unit requirements um and so it may well be that this person is in fact equivalent but what we don't have expressed on this page on this single page is enough evidence to be able to say that they really are equivalent so we would need to dig a lot more deeply and that is indeed what happens in activity too so if we go to activity two perhaps we might get a clearer response to uh what is going on
• 38:30 - 39:00 in terms of their particular unit we're going to focus now on just one unit of Competency which is the uh the the uh think of our move to the next slide uh you'll see what it is in activity two this is the tads 505 evaluator training program and here we have much more detailed information so you'll see in the unit column on the left that the elements of Competency are listed and
• 39:00 - 39:30 then the performance evidence requirements are listed and then there's evidence of equivalence attached documents and now this goes on for our two and a half pages well in actual fact um yes two and a half pages so what I'll ask you to do now is to take a few minutes to have a look at these two and a half pages of evidence in activity two and see to what extent that answers the question of where
• 39:30 - 40:00 whether or not the person is equivalent when you look back at your results you were not sure half of you said yes half of you said no but now you have provided a missed document with full details um in uh for the for the mapping of this unit of Competency would like you to come back with your opinion um in a in a number of minutes so let's allow ourselves another five minutes uh to have a look at this
• 40:00 - 40:30 thank you very much everybody for your responses the comments about why you would say no are very apt comments and they do show an awareness of the importance of such things as authenticity um so one individual is saying uh because I can't say the name of the person now but one of you were saying that um you would need to check authenticity another person was saying I'd need to check on the size of group and of course that check that you're referring to there is the kind of check
• 40:30 - 41:00 that the appropriate person as we call it uh would need to be making but the vote now is much more strongly yes before it was a bit equivocal now it's strongly yes and there are some no's because as a number of people are saying I would still need to do a bit provide a bit more information um but when you start looking at this you can see first of all that the unit list on the left hand side and the
• 41:00 - 41:30 left-hand column focuses on the skills components that is the performance evidence the PE the performance evidence and the uh elements of Competency the four elements of Competency with relating back to the earlier comment about the performance criteria whether it says plan and prepare an evaluation which is the first element of Competency it will have a set of performance criteria and we would expect to be able to explore the evidence provided in the second column or I guess it's the third
• 41:30 - 42:00 column in order to be able to establish that the performance criteria were implicitly or even explicitly met through the evidence that was being provided there's also of course a third document column which or fourth column which contains the attached documents and that is further Evidence which we don't having fun of us now but they're due to go back into it maybe that would help us with answering questions like what was the size of the group uh and um
• 42:00 - 42:30 and uh whether or not there was authenticity and the evidence um you'll also notice that on the final page of the uh the final page which I think I can show you um that there was a discussion uh of uh of uh review notes all three projects addressed the requirements of the unit and then involved different methodologies the ABC reports clearly show review processes and improvements
• 42:30 - 43:00 to the process in the following year discussions with the contract manager and chair of the stakeholder group have been recorded and can be accessed at this link which is part of that authentication so that the reviewer has gone beyond just the documented evidence has gone back to people who are involved and these conversations confirmed the authenticity of evidence so you can see that the independent Reviewer is checking
• 43:00 - 43:30 authenticity which is important discussion with project team members confirmed consultative approach was used and then there's a link here with the interviewer recordings which enables you to be able to follow that up so what we have here is as one of you has indicated a much more comprehensive uh statement of of evidence evidence that is related to these particularly the skills requirements it's interesting to note
• 43:30 - 44:00 that the knowledge requirements have not been listed and I know some rtos also list the knowledge requirements but I don't want to do downplay knowledge but it is true that knowledge can be relatively easily acquired skills are hard to acquire they take a lot of time to practice and and ultimately to demonstrate through performance whereas knowledge is something much more readily attainable so the focus on skills is the focus on
• 44:00 - 44:30 those qualities of the unit of Competency which are most difficult to acquire you'll also notice that this person has been able to associate the unit requirements to the uh work act workplace activities and that of course is totally legitimate because at the end of the day these units of Competency are supposed to be a reflection of workplace activities so what we're seeing here is that a unit of competencies come from the workplace and
• 44:30 - 45:00 now the person's using a workplace to demonstrate those qualities of the unit of Competency but it's not necessarily a formal process so it doesn't necessarily in in a formal assessment process that meets all the requirements of standard 1.8 so it will not lead to this individual being awarded the unit of Competency but it will enable us to say this person has equivalent unit of Competency there's much more effort involved than in than in the example
• 45:00 - 45:30 used in Activity one vastly more information really but at the end of the day we're going to be saying to this uh person you can now train others in this unit of Competency you can do so because we've done careful analysis of your experience and of any previous training that you've done that analysis is revealed that you have the qualities necessary uh to be able to train and assess but if you actually want this
• 45:30 - 46:00 unit to be awarded you're going to have to go through a much more formal and extensive assessment process than is here but given their responsibilities for training others uh it's not unreasonable that two and a half pages of of um of summary uh plus all of the documentation in the 13 attached documents um and plus the interviews that the reviewer did are those involved in those
• 46:00 - 46:30 activities all of that adds up to a very comprehensive Judgment of equivalence that would would appear to be uh quite safe I I've been quite Linda has quite rightly reminded us that knowledge evidence is listed in this activity too and my comment before was that you don't always find that knowledge evidence is listed in this case it is but when you look at the evidence there that is provided it is evidence about activity from which you might be able to infer uh
• 46:30 - 47:00 knowledge but knowledge is a different has a different set of qualities in terms of the kind of evidence you might need to provide God but when you look at the evidence of in relation to the elements and performance evidence you can see words like plan collection report and so on you can actually see in the uh attached documents uh project plans and data collection tools on Project reports you
• 47:00 - 47:30 can see the words that describe activities that have been used to demonstrate the skills and the performance evidence components of the unit of Competency knowledge is a little bit more difficult to discern and you would need to ask specific questions in order to establish knowledge but what you can see from that is that this individual is able to represent themselves to their students as someone who has the vocational competence and I
• 47:30 - 48:00 must say that it's something that is particularly unique to the vet sector um my daughter who was the University lecturer for many years um in as a what was a dietitian and was teaching dietetics many of the colleagues who are teaching dietetics in other words training dietitians had never themselves been dietitians they had done their qualification and then they had gone and done a master's degree they had gone on and done a PhD but they
• 48:00 - 48:30 had not worked as dietitians so they were training dietitians even though they did not necessarily have the vocational competence all for that matter the current industry skills of dietitians in the vet sector we have a very different view if you're going to be teaching a workplace related skills and knowledge you must have that workplace skills and knowledge and so our position in the vet sector is very strongly that you must be able to do
• 48:30 - 49:00 what you teach um and that is a a sources that comes through the standards continuously but also strongly through the concept of current industry skills and that's where I want to take us now within the context of the standards in Clause 130 and B it talks about training and assessment is delivered only by persons who have current industry skills directly relevant to the training and the assessment being provided and the
• 49:00 - 49:30 definition in the glossary uh says that current industry skills all the knowledge skills and experience required by vet trainers and assessors and those who provide training and assess another supervision to ensure that their training and assessment is based on current industry practices and meets their needs of Industry so interestingly enough they've changed the words in a sense current industry skills to a knowledge of current industry practices further on in the definition it talks about current industry skills may be
• 49:30 - 50:00 informed by consultations with industry and we're tested on that before under Clause 1.6 um and may include that is not limited to so may include means that not all of these things need to be done and there might be more on the list first of all having knowledge and or experience using the latest techniques and processes possessing a high level of product knowledge understanding them and knowledge of
• 50:00 - 50:30 legislation relevant to the industry and to employment and to workplaces being customer and client oriented possessing formal Industry and Training qualifications and training content that reflects current industry practices so fundamentally that little list of of uh items which is from the glossary uh Pages seven and eight double standards or gives you a clue of the sorts of things that current industry skills
• 50:30 - 51:00 might address um it's it's not so well defined in a wise vocational competence uh but what it needs to you need to understand that as a trainer and assessor when you stand before your class and actors are trying to and then later on as an assessor you represent the whole of your industry and I don't mean just your local Regional industry or if you're an Enterprise out here just your art your Enterprise you
• 51:00 - 51:30 represent national standards because there's a national competencies so your current industry skills need to be much broader than your experience much broader than your vocational competence because now you're talking about all the different ways in which the competency you are teaching might be used in industry so that gives us another way of looking at what current industry skills are clueless 1.6 makes it clear that you can
• 51:30 - 52:00 acquire and maintain your current industry skills through a range of strategies to engage with industry that is it says a range of strategies so it could be that you are keeping up to date on the web it could be that you're visiting work sites it could be that you're attending conferences a whole range of strategies that you might use and indeed we'll look at those a bit later on when it comes to professional development but when you visit industry what should you be looking for what should you be trying to learn and it's
• 52:00 - 52:30 fundamentally this notion that of taking the competency you teach and looking at how it's used in real workplaces so you can ask these sorts of questions that are shown on the slide firstly um uh how is this competency used by a worker to achieve workplace outcomes so it's not it you need to see the competency in context now not just in one industry but across the number of
• 52:30 - 53:00 industries that use the same competency how is this used by a worker then in different workplaces so in different workplaces the same competency might be used in different ways how does it relate other comp to other competencies used by the worker very rarely do we perform a competency in isolation most of the time we are performing competencies in harmony with other competencies that we might prioritize competencies we might have to blend competencies we might have to find
• 53:00 - 53:30 some way of integrating competencies within ourselves so the question needs to be asked how does this competency fit into if you like the network of competencies being used by the worker and that helps us to get out of our competency Silo one of the problems that we have as trainers and assessors is that we tend to think of competencies as having hard boundaries where an actual fact competencies are kind of multicellular they they connect to other
• 53:30 - 54:00 competencies that that's how they get some of their value and therefore it's important that we understand how the competency we teach relates to other competencies the person's learning maybe with other trainers and assessors then it needs to be you need to ask how does this competency relate to the competencies used by other people in the workplace and they could be other workers they could be management they could be junior workers they could even be clients or customers um because when you are working with a
• 54:00 - 54:30 competency as an individual in a workplace it's how your competencies interact with the competencies of other people that often make them effective in terms of producing workplace outcomes and how is this competency changed over time how has its use changed over time is the same competency now used with different equipment and different resources or even in different contexts so what it really is doing is is saying and remember that it says that you need
• 54:30 - 55:00 to be able to show this current industry skills in relation to the competencies you teach it's really taking the competency you teach back into the workplace and saying how does this competency actually work yeah then that will instruct you a great deal on how you can teach that competency because you can now immerse the competency in in in the kind of context of the workplace and that is
• 55:00 - 55:30 something you can share to your students it's something you can incorporate in your training materials it's something you can incorporate in your assessment processes it means that you're lifting the competency out of a kind of isolated cell its own Silo if you like and starting to see how the competency is used across the board and there are lots of benefits from this um and many of those benefits are benefits that will actually
• 55:30 - 56:00 um enhance your status as a trainer and assessor firstly of course it makes sure that your training and assessments are relevant based on real world situations uh and uh and uh can be reflect Industries needs there in other words the purpose of Competency is not the competency itself but how that competency is ultimately deployed in the world of work it provides you with confidence that you can have to date and and demonstrate to
• 56:00 - 56:30 others that you are an up-to-date um uh trainer and assessor providing best practice ideas for students industry and peers it enhances the reputation of the RTO amongst industry it improves the confidence and Goodwill because you're being seen in the industry what the industry is saying this person is one of us they know what we do they understand what we do they understand how we work
• 56:30 - 57:00 um and that in turn means that industry is going to associate more strongly with the vet system and accept and appreciate the output of the event system that is your graduates because they know that your graduates have been um developed by a person who has not just a vocational competency but also an understanding of how that vocational competence it works in in terms of parent industry practice so there is a
• 57:00 - 57:30 huge um benefit in in pursuing these qualities this quality of current industry skills but I hope you can see too that this makes it different to vocational competency it's not just that you can do something and understand how it works and so on but that you can actually show how it works within the real world of work and this has to be done on a competency
• 57:30 - 58:00 by competency basis unit by unit basis and what is basically saying here is that you need to be able to show the qualities of vocational currency and of Industry currency on the basis of uh of each unit of competency uh and so we need to ask ourselves how can we actually be confident that we have current qualities vocational currency and Industry currency what does
• 58:00 - 58:30 that means in relation um to Industry so Mike is saying what is my industry as an AEL cgea lecturer what is considered workplace for example teaching a maths unit or a migrate English and again proof of currency that I still know English that's a very good question and one which um I can I feel comfortable about
• 58:30 - 59:00 answering interestingly enough your industry is the when we're thinking about industry we need to think about where is our graduate going so if our industry has got our graduate is going out into the workplace such as into uh uh to an automotive Workshop then what we are then that is our industry in the case of uh ESL and in the case of um other education programs that if you like a a fundamental and significant foundational training for an
• 59:00 - 59:30 individual where they're going is intervet into further vocational education and training which means that they need to be you need to be talking to their next set of lecturers you need to be asking the questions of the next set of lecturers how are these mathematics skills used in your industry how are these English skills these language skills used in your industry in other words it's uh another or bigger partner in that further training so for
• 59:30 - 60:00 someone who's involved in ESL or in training in fundamental mathematics or training in uh those sorts of areas um the industry for them is the next level of vocational education and training and so you would be talking not to people out in the workplace but people in the vet sector itself because that's where your students are going uh and that's a really important indeed
• 60:00 - 60:30 it's um uh we need to consider uh always where is the student going uh after they've done our training if they're taking the competency we taught into the workplace then I need to talk to people in their workplace if they're taking the competencies I'm teaching into further educational training then I need to talk to people in further education and training because that's where my graduates are going those are the people that I'm preparing as graduates for and
• 60:30 - 61:00 those are the contexts for which I'm preparing these graduates or these students and so it's a very good question and when you think about it um not too difficult to answer if you think about it in those terms when it comes to currency uh we need to basically ask ourselves as well what is considered to be current by the in the training package and some training packages tell you so for example in in construction planning package
• 61:00 - 61:30 um in the plumbing and services training package they talk about the last two years so currency for them would be within two years um within say health um we can look at nursing um fundamentally there would say you have to have current registration uh so you can see that in some circumstances uh industry itself either through the training package or through some external registration
• 61:30 - 62:00 process tells you what is considered to be current but if uh if you do not have that then you're going to have to develop your own process to determine what currency is and again this is something with which you need to talk uh about uh with it with industry that you need to talk about with industry uh and so it'll depend a good deal on things like uh how quickly the industry is changing in terms of technical technological innovation so for example
• 62:00 - 62:30 if there's new materials or new processes or new equipment and new protocols um and your industry is changing rapidly you're going to have to be able to keep up to date with those and currency will be quite a short period of time if on the other hand you're in a very stable industry one which has not changed much does not evolve very much then you can stretch out those periods of time it
• 62:30 - 63:00 could be changes to legislation and regulatory requirements which of course uh mean that you basically got to keep up to date with that legislation and Regulatory environment there could be changes to Industry practice which might be because of technological innovation but they could be because of changing the work environment uh the changes in the workforce changes in client demands and expectations all those sorts of things means that you're going to have to be more active within the context of
• 63:00 - 63:30 keeping up to date through your industry engagement um there could be new and emerging skills and specializations so there could be Niche Industries being evolved uh new uh ways in which things are done uh under those circumstances again you're going to need to be fairly active but you're also going to need to look out for things that are actually in Decline um which is not just a part of the process of learning about new things
• 63:30 - 64:00 that are coming in but almost a sense that which you've got to start forgetting about things that are no longer used and so you actually need to be able to see not only where there are areas of growth but where there are areas of decay so this means that you need to engage with industry uh more if there's a rapid environment of change and evolution less if there's not um but I would argue that you probably
• 64:00 - 64:30 need to be able to check on what's going on every six months uh maybe report every six months or every year on what you've observed in terms of changes in industry and one would expect to find that those observations are then reflected in your delivery materials at your PowerPoints um uh your your handbooks but also in your assessment resources in other words it really is critical that these resources are kept up to date not just
• 64:30 - 65:00 for the changes in the training package but also changes within industry because at the end of the day what you're doing is defecating a person who's been ready for industry it's important that you sustain an awareness of what that industry is so that you can prepare students adequately for that industry as it is now I might say that in my very first involvement with the vet sector a long time ago and one of the things that we found was
• 65:00 - 65:30 that there were lecturers who had not touched the tools of trade and not being back in industry for 20 or 30 years and we're teaching um practices and using materials and Equipment which was vastly out of date and industry was beginning to turn its back on on formal vet training because it was basically saying well you haven't evolved with us the the training
• 65:30 - 66:00 organizations were kind of um dinosaurs they have a kind of museums of of past industry practices uh what industry it needs is vet to be up to date um and aware of what is happening in Industry now and hence the word current in Industry skills not just the industry skills that you had when you left industry but current stream skills that reflect industry practice services and
• 66:00 - 66:30 processes and equipment and ideas of now and that really does mean that you need to sustain uh currency uh to be able to make sure that what you deliver is going to reflect what the student is going to find when they leave the training and move into the workforce so the process you need to first of all go through is what does currency mean in my industry and in some industries that will mean you need to keep a very close
• 66:30 - 67:00 tab on what is going on in other other Industries you might be able to be a bit more relaxed but fundamentally what you need to do is to be fully aware of how your industry is changing what knowledge and skill and Industry practices do I need to keep up to date with and so fundamentally you need to start then saying well if these are the changes in Industry what do I need to do to keep up to date and then you need to think about the sort of activities that you need to
• 67:00 - 67:30 follow to keep up to date and in Activity three um we have a list here of of sorts of things that you might do uh and we're then in the moment look at professional development but what you can see is that these sorts of activities listed in Activity three things like being involved in workplace ships uh and um and in um uh workplace experience oh
• 67:30 - 68:00 professional memberships or attending conferences or providing training or assessment in the workplace or any other sorts of things that you do these are things that enable you to see what is going on in Industry to keep up to date so what we'd like you to do is to have a look at um of those processes which you might call professional development there's certainly part of professional development and reflect on the pros and cons and whether or not those strategies
• 68:00 - 68:30 would work for you so let's just take five minutes now to have a look at Activity three and those approaches that are described there well I'm not too sure how we can get feedback on this um you may have some really good ideas about how it can be done but um let's um let's see what we can do with this activity yeah sure Russell just pop your head in the chat box guys and we'll come back for a discussion
• 68:30 - 69:00 folks I think I might cut in at this point um and uh although we did say 10 minutes I think we might be wondering wearing a bit about beginning to worry a bit about our agenda um but we are getting some really interesting comments here and uh I would like to share with you some responses to that and if I just go back up a little bit here on my list of uh comments uh it has
• 69:00 - 69:30 been I think it was Lenore has said uh it's stressful finding the time uh and uh I understand that Lenora I think that this is an extra demand some people are saying well their employer is allowing them time to get out into industry and others would appear to be not um so it's a it is an extra demand may I say in relation to that uh first of all approach four which are providing training or assessment in the workplace
• 69:30 - 70:00 if you are providing training and assessment in the workplace and it may be that you have apprentices or trainees um part of the process could be not just spending time looking at the trainee or The Apprentice but also spending time looking at the workplace for your own benefit now what I mean is you're already out there so if you are out in the workplace to look at a trainee or an apprentice or a person doing in workplace experience then then you can
• 70:00 - 70:30 use that time not just to look at the student but also to look at the workplace for your own benefit another way in which you can do it is to is to is to perform a kind of collaborative group with other trainers and assessors so that you can share experiences um this doesn't all have to be experienced by you firsthand you may well find that there are others who are out in the workplace with whom you can talk um so there's this notion of sharing
• 70:30 - 71:00 experience and observations um there's also just mentioned there of a log book I must say that I've lost the um uh lost the uh the question or the comment but what I would be urging you to avoid is a very detailed diary um uh you'll get some people who say oh what I need to do is keep a log of you know the date and the time and the person I spoke to and uh what where
• 71:00 - 71:30 where I was and and and so on the critical thing is not so much all of that but what did you learn from that experience so it would be more valuable for you to keep a a narrative um of of observations you know um uh just so that you were able to record uh things that you either were changing or things that were developing or things that were in Decline just keep a
• 71:30 - 72:00 narrative going and then and after maybe uh six months or so go back over the narrative and that that collection of ideas uh that you and observations that you have made either yourself or have heard through other people or have uh particip seen in the web or uh in some other way even sometimes as a customer yourself um and look back over that narrative and then say to yourself are there messages
• 72:00 - 72:30 in this narrative that I need to incorporate in my training materials are there messages in this narrative that I need to incorporate in my assessment strategies um so that fundamentally what you are doing is keeping a kind of running conversation with yourself so it needed to be a log book in the formal sense but there does need to be a sense in which you sustain a narrative I keep a little on Bits of Paper and some that I hear of something interesting or useful I write it down I gradually build
• 72:30 - 73:00 up a collection of of ideas which I can then incorporate in what I'm doing and um it's just that sort of notion of of notes to yourself a narrative rather than a formal look um uh so uh what we're seeing is that people are finding the idea of workplace shift or experience as perhaps tricky to get to um but what I'm suggesting to you is that you can share that with others the
• 73:00 - 73:30 great uh con then is in finding the time but the great Pro of it is that you are really seeing the real workplace and what's happening there is you are going into the workplace and seeing what is done there's really no substitute for that it's something that you need to do or need to draw upon through other people um professional memberships can be really valuable
• 73:30 - 74:00 um but of course but now you are now doing is getting information second hand it's been processed and uh uh uh before the information gets to you so it'll be how the profession wants to represent itself rather than what is really going on and so you might find that within the context of conferences or professional activities that it talks about PPE uh requirements but when you go into the actual workplace you might see that
• 74:00 - 74:30 those PPE requirements are not really being met uh that tells you something about how you need to train and how you need to assess so that what you want to do as much as possible is to get things first hand and one way of course of that of doing that is making use of time that you're in the workplace for training and assessment uh if if indeed that is uh what you do so you can see say that there are strategies that you can do use
• 74:30 - 75:00 to build up a narrative over a period of time which enables you to review and modify and and enhance the relevance of your training and assessment materials which is what it talks about in standard 1.5 and 1.6 a but of course that narrative now becomes part of your current industry skills so it also enables you to meet the requirements of 113 B I'm going to have to get a life I keep on reciting these these numbers
• 75:00 - 75:30 so when we come to look at professional development um we are basically saying that instead of 116 um uh that there is in fact an expectation that you enhance your vet skills and knowledge your vocational competency and your current industry skills uh and that is basically what you need to be able to do in order to be very confident that what you're doing is relevant to the requirements of Industry
• 75:30 - 76:00 now and therefore you can provide the right kind of learning environment for your students and the right kind of Assessments context for your assessment processes and in that way uh you are providing exactly what the whole idea of of a quality assured system expects um it is true that that the whole system stands upon your shoulders and therefore your shoulders need to be properly
• 76:00 - 76:30 informed about what is going on in that what is going on in terms of your vocational skills and what is going on in terms of the use of those skills within the world of current industry um but there's a lot is reflected too in the way in which certification is done so the outcome of that quality pyramid that I talked about before is certification that is you are going to a
• 76:30 - 77:00 train and assess and then certificate students as competent uh and ready for the workplace and this is another significant difference between higher education and vocational education in higher education a degree means that you've you've been involved in a body of learning that you've been involved in the body of learning and that there is evidence in the form of Assessments that that you have acquired that learning so
• 77:00 - 77:30 it's self-referenced and backward looking it doesn't say what that learning is it just says that you've been involved in it for a period of three years if it's a degree and that you've passed the necessary tests but that is quite different vet says that this person has been trained and assessed not necessarily trained because RPO would be just assessed and is ready for the world of work so that looks beyond the training to say is this person but we're going to graduate ready
• 77:30 - 78:00 for the world of work whereas in our education it doesn't say that it says has this person succeeded in doing the teaching that we did whatever that was so there's a very different idea in terms of certification which means there's a very different idea about what it is to be a trainer and assessor in our case in the vet sector because we are going to certificate a person who's ready for the world of work we ourselves have to
• 78:00 - 78:30 reflect that world of work both in our vocational competency and in our kind industry skills and that really does make a huge difference in terms of um of what vet requires and why those Clauses are so significant in the standards and why we have a fact sheet and while we run a webinar to talk about those particular requirements but I might say if I may that it's something about which you should be very proud
• 78:30 - 79:00 um it does mean that as vet trainers and assessors you have extraordinary qualities and extraordinary attributes which enables you to perform in this extraordinary area in the preparation of of your students and your learners for the world of work but not everybody who comes to the world of vet has all of these qualities uh and in particular um when a person comes with vocational
• 79:00 - 79:30 confidence in current industry skills but does not yet have the vet skills and knowledge this uh the First on our list yeah uh then it is acceptable with the member standards uh for you to be able to supervise that individual so that they can deploy their vocational competency and their their current industry skills to deliver training and assessment but there are very strong conditions associated with that
• 79:30 - 80:00 the first is that they must be supervised and that is that they cannot operate independently or as a trainer and assessor uh and uh but and they must be vocational incompetent and Industry current so you can see that in these lists here for training and for assessment that in both cases uh The Vocational competence and Industry currency is critical requirement and when you think about it the acquisition
• 80:00 - 80:30 of vocational confidence and Industry currency is a long time thing it takes quite a while to achieve vocational competence and to sustain industry currency uh it means also that the person who doesn't have themselves the trainer a trainer and assessor qualifications offices uh can work as part of a team with someone who does and so um the uh when it comes to training this
• 80:30 - 81:00 person is provided with advice and is monitored to assure equality so the supervisor provides advice on how um training materials could be managed and on how the training materials are delivered and monitors them to assure equality um you need to be have a skill set to be supervised and so fundamentally uh the standards we do require that you have the Enterprise trainer presenting or
• 81:00 - 81:30 presenting skill set um but um fundamentally if you don't have uh some skill set to work with you still you can't even perform as an as a trainer when it comes to assessment um you can collect evidence during an assessment process but you can't make the assessment decision you cannot determine the assessment outcomes that has to be done uh uh at least you can
• 81:30 - 82:00 but not on your own you would have to be working in partnership with a person who is trainer and assessor trained or in this case particularly at Tesla trade uh so that we accept the notion that you can collect evidence if you don't have a trading illnesses a qualification uh but you can't make a judgment that has to be done at least in partnership with someone who is assessor trade and so we need to talk about this notion of uh supervision and when it comes to
• 82:00 - 82:30 thinking about a supervisor um we are basically saying the person who's acting as a supervisor and this is covered in the standards in Clauses 117 to 120 is responsible and accountable for the quality of training being delivered so uh that individual who is being supervised uh is responsible for for following instructions and for taking
• 82:30 - 83:00 advice uh uh and for having vocational competence in Industry currency but but the end quality of the end product is the responsibility of the supervising trainer at assessor and also the supervising trainer and assessor makes all the final decisions about assessment outcomes uh I might say that there's a sense in which um of course we do understand the notion of an assessment partnership where one
• 83:00 - 83:30 person brings the assessment expertise and the other person brings the vocational confidence as well so that the and the industry currency as well so it may be that the assessment decisions are made jointly by the person being supervised and by the supervising trainer and assessor who has the trainer and assessor qualifications but that the person being supervised cannot make those judgments independently
• 83:30 - 84:00 so there we are with ours with our session and I'm really happy now to feel any kinds of questions we need to just reflect on the fact that there are some resources that you can access uh of course there is the standards for rtos themselves and Tech also produces a user's guide um which which addresses each of the standards within the standards for rtos and talks about the the way that that can be interpreted while the standard is
• 84:00 - 84:30 important um what you can do to demonstrate compliance with the standard and what Auditors are looking for when it comes to compliance with the standard but the first part of each discussion is the most important which is why is this standard important and there's been much of the basis of the discussion today in this webinar as to saying well it's not just about compliance with vocational competency and current industry skills the right it's the reasons why they
• 84:30 - 85:00 matter that makes it important for you to um to attend to them uh then there's a fact sheet on vocational confidence in Industry currency uh which provides you with everything that we've shared with you today uh but uh something you can reflect on later on uh there's a fact sheet on industry engagement because as you'll have seen a key part of this process is maintaining contact with industry and there are a whole range of strategies discussed in that fact sheet
• 85:00 - 85:30 and for those of you uh Tom Prest hopefully when you look at that fact sheet you'll find that there are strategies which are not so time uh demanding that you can utilize for industry engagement and not the least of which I referred to before which is the sharing of your observations that narrative that I referred to before that you can build up through industry engagement is something you can share with others and others can share with
• 85:30 - 86:00 you so that together you build up a really good picture of what is going on in the industry uh there is of course attack factored I'm trying to assess the requirements and there is a document called keeping it real industry currency of China's in Queensland uh that is another document that you can access in order to uh uh keep up to date with what's going on no phrase though keeping it real it's
• 86:00 - 86:30 really going back to that notion that australianism assesses we must not become enclosed by the unit of Competency we need to understand that unit of Competency and how it it relates to the real world of work so keeping it real is a really good phrase for that so I'm happy now to uh to stop at this point and to say thank you very much for your participation I hope you found it useful and I'm happy to stay here and deal with any questions so um if you uh
• 86:30 - 87:00 if you want to leave now feel free uh but if you would like to stay online and deal with any questions uh then I'm happy to to stay online as well uh just draw your attention to the fact too that um tag is also able to respond to questions and issues tag is made up of a very skilled group of um of individuals who can respond to questions they may redirect questions to Auditors but in
• 87:00 - 87:30 much of the time they're able to deal with those um questions themselves so here are in this slide uh the contact details and you'll also see a feedback survey at um item that that Mel may want to refer to before we leave but I'm happy now to stay on and deal with any questions thanks so much Russell for today and thank you everyone for your participation and thanks everyone also
• 87:30 - 88:00 for um uh bearing with us as we had a few technical issues um if you can complete a survey that would be wonderful I've put the link in the chat but you can also use the QR code on your screen to answer the survey a recording of this session will be available on our website and also on the YouTube channel shortly and of course the certificate of attendance will be emailed to you in a little while so it takes everybody and once again thanks
• 88:00 - 88:30 and have a great day thank you