VTuber Destiny Triggers And Debates The Panel Host

Summary

Highlights

• Destiny dives into the heated discussion on political strategy regarding the 15-dollar minimum wage. 🔥
• The panel explores the intricacies of government functionality and decision-making. 🏢
• Various perspectives on leveraging political power are debated. ⚖️
• The role of government in addressing economic disparities is discussed in depth. 📈

Key Takeaways

• Debating the 15-dollar minimum wage is more than just a number; it involves understanding the economic and political complexities. 💰
• Political negotiations often involve considering multiple perspectives and the strategic use of influence. 🤝
• Understanding government processes is crucial in forming realistic expectations of political outcomes. 🏛️
• Lively discussions can highlight different viewpoints and open avenues for deeper political understanding. 💬

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:00: Fundamental Misunderstanding and Panel Introduction The chapter discusses a fundamental misunderstanding about how the government operates, highlighting different perceptions about the President's ability to enact changes unilaterally. The dialogue reveals a debate where one side is accused of believing in oversimplified solutions, like thinking the President could act decisively with 'a sword and shield.' However, there is a clarification that not everyone holds that belief, and not all statements suggest that the President will inevitably succeed in implementing change.
• 01:00 - 06:00: Discussion on Domestic Terrorism and QAnon Threats This chapter focuses on discussions regarding domestic terrorism and threats posed by QAnon supporters. It particularly highlights how the House of Representatives is responding to these issues, especially in light of recent events that occurred on a Thursday.
• 06:00 - 10:00: Responses to Threats and Congressional Actions The chapter discusses the misinformation surrounding March 4th as the supposed 'true inauguration day' for Donald Trump. Despite the claim being entirely fabricated, there were genuine concerns about potential violent actions from individuals who believed this narrative. The chapter also highlights the ongoing discussions and articles concerning the threats and how they were viewed by the public and government.
• 10:00 - 15:00: Evaluation of Threat Credibility and Security Measures This chapter discusses the evaluation of threat credibility and the appropriate security measures to be taken in response to such threats. The focus is on a specific incident where the House of Representatives paused its session due to a perceived threat, while the Senate continued its proceedings. It is argued that the House should not have interrupted its session, as doing so might be seen as yielding to the threat. The chapter analyzes the reasoning behind these differing responses and the implications of choosing to pause or continue legislative activities in the face of security concerns.
• 15:00 - 20:00: Congressional Reactions and Speculations on Threats The chapter discusses the impact of domestic terrorists on Congressional activities, highlighting how these interruptions give notoriety and media attention to such groups. It specifically mentions an incident involving QAnon that caused the House to stop its proceedings. The text questions whether shutting down was the appropriate response and whether Congress should prioritize the safety and duties of its representatives amidst such threats.
• 20:00 - 25:00: Strategies for Handling Future Threats and Security Concerns The chapter 'Strategies for Handling Future Threats and Security Concerns' discusses the challenges and responsibilities associated with addressing potential security threats. It highlights the issue of criticism and blame that often arises when threats are not taken seriously, especially if they have been reported in the media. The chapter emphasizes understanding the persistent nature of some threats, particularly those linked to far-right terrorism, suggesting that such threats are unlikely to disappear soon. It raises the question of whether society will continue to yield to threats that could disrupt significant processes, like congressional activities.
• 25:00 - 30:00: Debate on Biden's Policy Priorities and Actions The chapter discusses criticisms of Biden's policy priorities and actions. There's a focus on the National Guard's treatment and how their presence should have been sufficient to make the House of Representatives feel comfortable to meet. There's a consensus that support for business is lacking.
• 30:00 - 35:00: Democratic Strategies and Challenges in the Senate The chapter delves into the various strategies and challenges faced by Democrats in the Senate. It touches on the concerns around intelligence and credibility of threats, likening the situation to dealing with presidential death threats. There is a mention of a need to access specific links or information to better understand the situation, indicating possible information gaps or communication issues.
• 35:00 - 40:00: Discussion on Minimum Wage and Economic Policies The chapter discusses the nature and response to death threats against high-profile figures such as the president. It highlights that while numerous threats are made daily, authorities prioritize those that are deemed credible based on motive, means, and indications of an active threat.
• 40:00 - 45:00: Progressive Policy Push and Political Capital This chapter discusses the impact of progressive policy decisions on political leaders' ability to execute their duties effectively. It suggests that certain policy decisions and the discussions surrounding them should often happen behind closed doors to prevent disruption to leaders' schedules and to ensure that their ability to do their job is not compromised. The chapter also hints at the risk of making some policy changes public, as it may motivate others to engage in similar actions. The discussion includes a note on an article by 'prime' that ties into these themes.
• 45:00 - 50:00: Economic Theories and Alternative Economic Systems The House of Representatives decided to recess for a period of time, unlike the Senate which continued its activities. This decision was not made by the Capitol Police.
• 50:00 - 55:00: Feasibility of Implementing Economic Reforms The discussion revolves around the feasibility of implementing economic reforms, specifically touching upon the ability of authorities to identify credible threats and respond accordingly. There is a mention of a comparison to a past event, January 6th, suggesting that the perceived threat was significant. The speakers express skepticism about the existence of a credible threat that resulted in significant actions such as the potential closure of a capital, implying that a serious consideration must be given to the actual likelihood and implications of threats when planning reforms or emergency responses.
• 55:00 - 60:00: Tax Policy and Social Welfare Systems Discussion The chapter titled 'Tax Policy and Social Welfare Systems Discussion' addresses various elements of intelligence and decision-making processes within government systems. Specifically, it refers to intelligence shortcomings experienced on January 6 and subsequent actions, which are perceived as an attempt to remedy past inadequacies. There is a notable confusion regarding the different responses of the House and the Senate, particularly why the House was in recess while the Senate was not, an issue speculated to relate to the differing number of members in each chamber. Altogether, the chapter presents a discourse on the intersection of legislative function and crisis management without fully resolving the speculation on procedural differences between the two chambers.
• 60:00 - 65:00: Closing Remarks and Reflections on Policy Debates The chapter 'Closing Remarks and Reflections on Policy Debates' seems to detail a discussion on the uncertainty and speculation surrounding the decision-making processes related to security concerns in a legislative setting. It's highlighted that members of the legislative body do not gather all at once, hinting at the procedural operations. The discourse suggests a divide on whether decisions made should be strictly guided by intelligence reports that are not publicly accessible, indicating a debate over transparency and the credibility of threats. The underlying sentiment is the acknowledgment that there might be internal knowledge (an intelligence report) influencing decisions, amidst which the reliability and justification of actions like calling a recess are debated. The chapter infers a broader theme on policy formulation under uncertainty and reflects on public accessibility to authoritative decisions.

VTuber Destiny Triggers And Debates The Panel Host Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 the problem is just a fundamental misunderstanding like this all just comes down to misunderstanding how the government works that's literally awesome you guys think no you think that biden could just come out with a sword and shield and i never said that you keep saying that i'm saying that i'm i'm not even saying that he's going to succeed
• 00:30 - 01:00 i'm not even saying he's going to succeed the final question the original question was what there's there is oh my god shut up um hi hi oh wow i'm the liberal himself so we're talking about responding to domestic terrorism talking about the response um of uh the house representative specifically to what happened on thursday right um when uh q anon uh supporters or
• 01:00 - 01:30 whatever uh we're uh saying um that um uh we're saying that that thursday was at march 4th um was the true inauguration day when donald trump um was going to take control of the u.s just made that [ __ ] up sure whatever all right whatever um yeah they made that up um uh but the threat was real right that they would maybe uh take some sort of violent act against the states right i was reading some sort of this article i'll post it in chat again
• 01:30 - 02:00 if i can find it um yeah i'll post this in chat again uh and there's making uh the um the argument uh it's right there in chat uh it was making the argument that um the house representatives uh which uh at least paused its um session at the time right uh because of this supposed threat um that that [ __ ] should not have been the response that they should have kept going just as the senate did right should not have interrupted because um uh that's giving in to uh
• 02:00 - 02:30 domestic terrorists getting into their demands right and the very fact that you're interrupting normal business um is exactly what the terrorists want um it gives them notoriety it gives them um attention uh within the media right that's what happened the house had to stop because q anon did a thing right um so um is that was the proper response for the house to shut down um should they have been thinking of their um uh their representatives right because
• 02:30 - 03:00 if something did happen if something did happen if there had been a lot of blame uh going around why didn't you take the uh the threat seriously you know you knew about the threat it was reported in the media why didn't you do anything right um yeah yeah but on the other hand you have to uh uh understand that uh this threat it's cueing on these uh and this far right uh terrorists that isn't going to go away anytime soon right so there are going to be more threats in the future are we simply going to give in and um um interrupt congress in the
• 03:00 - 03:30 supporting business which it never actually does um every single every single time so uh we'll try this again what do you all think about this well i completely agree with what someone said earlier i think then we haven't we have the national guard there they've already been treated real badly i mean why isn't that enough to make the the um the house of representatives feel have felt comfortable to meet that should i feel that should have been enough um you know
• 03:30 - 04:00 um could someone post me the link to that in particular about like what the particular threats were that engaged in so i think ultimately it just depends on the um the um the intelligence the intelligence field and like and what was the determined credibility of the action occurring so i think it's like it's very much akin to like death threats against the president you know i think obviously hold on hold on but if you are if you have the link just post me the link you know you don't have to cut me off just just hit me up with the link no i don't know like
• 04:00 - 04:30 it's kind of like the death threats against the president you know like this the president gets to [ __ ] thousands of death threats every [ __ ] day you know but obviously they're not going to react to all of them however though if there's a credible one where you know there's reason to believe like oh okay this guy we have enough information to indicate this guy has a motive he has the means um we have otherwise indications that he is actively going to go to this place to engage in this act then yeah then there is actionable um reason to confront that issue but like i think an
• 04:30 - 05:00 important part of it is though is a lot of these like address a lot of this um addressing of the threat and my personal opinion ought to happen otherwise behind closed doors especially like if there is an alteration to these individual schedules before that point that you make prime and that's showing that like it's it is otherwise affecting these people's ability to do their job and it may otherwise motivate others to try to engage in that same action well here's one here's just one small note of the article that prime put
• 05:00 - 05:30 in the chat it and i didn't know this i thought the entirety of congress suspended their activities the house closed for a period of time but the senate continued in its activity so it was an it was a decision on the side of the house to for some reason recess for some period of time it wasn't a decision of capital police to shut down the cow shut down the capital because the senate was still in session and still was continuing on whatever they were doing in two days so so it was like
• 05:30 - 06:00 so then i don't so i'm bringing up the point to sort of for uh for pug here in that like i don't think that there was some sort of like credible threat that was like being made and then capitol police made the decision that like they needed to close the capital because if they did then the senate would have also recessed yeah let me just say this from what i've read and i can share sources the threat was about as credible as what the threat was on january 6th so it was imminent then apparently it
• 06:00 - 06:30 was there from the from the intelligence well they didn't have very good intelligence on january 6 honestly so it's about the same that they have now not very good so they take it they're taking it everything way more seriously that's probably why they did it if they did but i'm just still i'm just i'm just still confused like why the house of recess but the senate didn't like if it wasn't because the house has way more men has so many more members like they probably like no okay well that's like wild speculation yeah i think they
• 06:30 - 07:00 they don't know all i mean members don't gather in the house chamber at once like that's not how it works i don't know honestly go ahead stephen this is like we're all speculating the dark like our answers on this would be entirely informed by what we would see in an intelligence report and we just don't have access to that information it's entirely possible that there's a super credible threat i'm pretty sure every single person and you'd be like yeah they definitely should have called a recess or taken the day off um if the threat was like dumb or not very credible then i think all of us would agree that
• 07:00 - 07:30 they shouldn't have but we're all just kind of speculating like we have no i don't think anyone heard unless someone here works intelligence doesn't really know like what the threat was right but stephen um uh if maybe we all wouldn't agree um because again um the house uh took the recess and the senate didn't um so that's the case right um wait but who wouldn't agree like so i'm curious let's say that there was a credible threat on members of the house and they actually felt like there was a decent chance that some kind of violence would be enacted is there someone in here that thinks that they should have still just called their session and done their
• 07:30 - 08:00 regular work well okay let's look at let's examine this because um while this is happening right uh the capital is still hardened right so uh after the uh the previous capital riots um they put the mass fencing uh up we have five thousand uh national guard troops uh stationed um at the capitol um we have all these security measures there um should we right like should we have actually um uh change like is that enough um should that simply uh give the um
• 08:00 - 08:30 lawmakers confidence um that this is enough because what else uh can be done um other than that i mean the senate seemed to have uh confidence that this was enough this could protect them so yeah maybe some people would disagree uh dr vayne yeah so i just wanted to note this we could just probably just apply for you call him a doctor but you wouldn't call me a doctor oh my god because you're not a doctor [Music]
• 08:30 - 09:00 you can call me whatever you want okay don't worry i'll rename your name is a social construct go ahead all right so um i think we can kind of apply occam's razor to this so apparently uh according i don't very much believe what this woman has to say but according to you know the house speaker pelosi this was the gop just having their like policy meeting that the dnc already had but they did it
• 09:00 - 09:30 on zoom like normal people during a pandemic they want to have theirs indoors like how they are i think that might be just it the national guard is there with like real capacity they're not there for like show like how it was during january they're there like now with the capacity to actually hold back something that frankly for the activists that have been on the ground that kind of like keep an ear out for this kind of stuff nothing was supposed
• 09:30 - 10:00 to happen like this nothing was supposed to happen wait like we know that right there wasn't any chatter over it there's nothing like like because here's the thing parlor was one of the greatest benefits to us who were doing also like uh analysis on what the right wing is doing because like if we're if we're trying to listen to like what our adversary because i'm on the left if we're trying to listen to what our adversaries are doing i'm in their spaces all the time i'm listening to what they say so like this wasn't we didn't expect
• 10:00 - 10:30 anything here but like in january yeah we all knew something was coming everybody knew she liked me not everything is going to be done on like public social media right like if you so anybody so if you've ever worked in intelligence job before you get there's like daily reports that go out that like monitor threat levels of activity across the country for sure and then if there is something going on that intelligence knows about this is why i'm saying like we're all this is just hard speculation like it might not have been anything public but there could have there could have been something we just don't know right maybe maybe maybe there was chatter on something where some guy messaged some
• 10:30 - 11:00 dude and he's like yo like i left a pipe bomb under you know aocc like i think that's gonna go off there's some crazy [ __ ] like we have no idea right like if it's something like that then you know who knows like yeah but to be here like being someone who's previously worked in naval intelligence for six years like even in the pentagon for three like with those three levels yeah you're correct with those three levels and like it would be something like you know like i had stated before like it's something yeah they wouldn't like put out there they wouldn't suspect hey cnn guess what that's going on you know but like but to the certain degree
• 11:00 - 11:30 though if they did find that substantial threat it would be enough to like e send both of these to get the house representatives and the senate out if it was deemed like credible to one of them like it would like would it not seem to make sense though like it'd be enough for well i don't know we don't know the location for both of the houses to go yeah we don't know the time and location of the threat right that's right yeah sure well sure yeah i understand yeah and i agree because we're against the speculation part though however they'll like and yes it is speculation though however like if there was the threat that was great
• 11:30 - 12:00 enough and if it was the team if it was determined to be a valid threat that it would be reasonable that both of the both of them of the the house and the senate would otherwise be forced to evacuate by just one just yeah it's possible but can i if we were to if we were to like spend some time together with our imaginations we could probably conceive of some threats that might only affect one half of congress right we could probably be creative and think up of something i don't want to spin those theories off right now yeah i don't want to figure it out it's in the same building right
• 12:00 - 12:30 i believe it's founded in the house of different chambers aren't they but it's the same they're in the same building there could be possibly some kind of like hypothetical you could come up with where the capitol police can reasonably say the house needs to like not be there but the senate can still be there because of the specific threat that's definitely possible but um but like again yeah it's just very very speculative about i mean the enemies i guess i think the speculation that would be like oh like we're attributing the the house adjourning for this reason
• 12:30 - 13:00 yeah and then they just didn't really actually have to buy they never said why so this will be standard practice for like secure for um national security related stuff they're not going to come out and explicitly say like what threat there may or may not be like that'll just never happen even the doctor apocalypse i don't read them firsthand but like even on the little security briefings they don't release like in detail like this is why we think
• 13:00 - 13:30 there's a threat here like it's a pretty big pretty general thing like there's a lot of threats that come and go in the country that we'll never know the details of because it's on a need to know base and they don't want to like reveal like how they come across that information so this is where i'll give jugsie some credit as well because he did mention that um in the house obviously you have more members as well you still have to you have to deal basically say for example if the house is still open you have to deal with security of every one of those house members and then you also have to make sure that every single one of their staffers if they have visitors or something like that like if marjorie taylor green is
• 13:30 - 14:00 going to be giving [ __ ] people um you know uh tours and stuff like that throughout the capital obviously you've got to stop that so i i think that this being a temporary measure i don't think it's all that unreasonable i think i think it's totally reasonable to basically say senate you're fine whatever you can go and you can have staffers and do your normal business but the house you're just still maybe a little too much logistically to handle right now that actually makes a lot of sense with a hundred members in the senate and 500 in the house and thinking of if each house member has
• 14:00 - 14:30 12 aides et cetera so well that's what i said initially you actually dissuaded me yeah i imagine at that point though like then i don't like this this is a shoot from the hip kind of hot take i guess that's right imagine then like where for the betterment of like public perception and whatnot then the house should be more incentivized to release that threat than to explain why there is that distinguishment between between them having to um go into a
• 14:30 - 15:00 recess and be dismissed by the senate because that was one of the um reading going through the articles that prime sent me as well as um another i mean there's enough is like it's currently just as the perception alone of it of the perception of this disarray and this like communication disconnect between these two groups is is forming an issue in itself but i mean there's rarely any benefit to that right why would you let anybody know what you know when you know it yeah like if you have
• 15:00 - 15:30 certain because there's certain information you can release without because like to a certain degree when it comes to the release of information there's certain information that can be released that otherwise is fine there are certain details the details that we don't necessarily use the details that our need to know is basically things that may otherwise be indicative of how we obtain that information or what it might be like like like example yeah sorry i got saying there could be need to know stuff but it could be a second thing too is it like especially when you talk about cancelling an event you probably don't
• 15:30 - 16:00 want to release the specific like requirements of what has to happen for an event to get canceled so somebody might say you know we originally weren't going to cancel today but we actually got four discrete different threats on on one day and that's you know that's our trip because then people know in the future like all right we'll just take four phone calls and get congress shut down every time right so you i'm just saying it's a really tricky spot when you release information like this is really really hard to figure out like what you can responsibly release without giving people basically like here's a guidebook to shutting down congress in the future fair enough um okay so uh
• 16:00 - 16:30 oh joel you want to say something um yeah i had a question for you prime so what were your worst outcomes of them doing this so i can i can understand the arguments like maybe they overdid it but you said earlier like um you might be giving these people what they want by doing this but it seems like this group was driven by this online conspiracy theory they weren't just deciding to cause chaos because this was a very specific thing on this specific day so what were your like worst outcomes of this so um i wasn't actually giving a
• 16:30 - 17:00 prescription as to what should be done because i'm not exactly sure myself um but um worse outcomes uh again i don't know uh the exact threat but um i what i wanted to go off of um is uh what are the possibilities like uh for the future so um this the article that i linked was uh written by an israeli um at the very end uh they talk about like rocket attacks uh from hamas apparently um and how uh uh israelis like don't let that interrupt their uh lives um
• 17:00 - 17:30 because they just they feel like they just can't um they have to keep going all right um so what i'm concerned about is what our daily lives look like afterwards right um because and i said this again and i'm sorry if you guys were here from the beginning but i'm going to repeat all this but uh 911 um had a specific response here in the states right um we saw the uh rise of the patriarch we saw um uh the extreme um
• 17:30 - 18:00 uh powers that were given to our intelligence and security uh agencies um we have these uh the security apparatus now surrounding uh the capital um but when is it gonna go away when when is that gonna be dismantled is that gonna be a permanent feature here right i think it's something we have to discuss like as a democracy is this something we're going to accept um maybe it is maybe uh it's a sacrifice that sacrifice will make um uh even less access to our capital from now on it might be a worthwhile sacrifice but something we really have
• 18:00 - 18:30 to talk about i think one um and also uh stephen i'm hearing like myself from your echoing yeah you're actually oh sorry [ __ ] um um i couldn't i was gonna make a point okay well hold on uh well the point is the point is is um what what do you all uh believe uh is this is this worth it like the path that might be going down because again we're hearing people we're hearing noise uh from the security intelligence agencies right saying that we need more powers like despite everything we had
• 18:30 - 19:00 gotten during the patriot act right um and that period of time in the us despite all the latitude we have and we still have right that just hasn't been like repealed yet um despite all that we might need more right to keep the country safe it's got to happen so how do we respond to that um is that is it a worthwhile trade-off to be um uh to give them any more power or do they have enough tools in the bag uh already what do you all think i don't know well it's do you want safety or privacy that's effectively what you're asking
• 19:00 - 19:30 well i think it's a little more complicated because it's like well but is it though well because like as an individual citizen i think it's a little simpler like yeah okay i want my privacy but when we're talking to when we're talking about the security of like the senate and the house and the members of our government who are let's just face it these are more important than me or you these are people who are just objectively more important in the chain of command etc um i think it's a little
• 19:30 - 20:00 more important to have these people well defended um like i'm reading in the article and they're talking about how like they they should have they should have uh continued to have the congress or the house rather do its normal business uh and i i actually agree with that like with all this with all the security if it takes another two thousand three thousand
• 20:00 - 20:30 ten thousand national security guards or a security uh personnel to protect and make sure that every single one of the staffers and the congressmen etc are getting to uh where they need to go on time and safely then i think that's worth it but well it sounds like prime wasn't necessarily talking security in the sense of personnel it's like it was being referenced more into like intelligence collection as in like the patriot act for example like that's the patriarch wasn't about like
• 20:30 - 21:00 necessarily about like oh it's gonna put in more [ __ ] people at the airports it was hey we're gonna [ __ ] listen into people's [ __ ] cell phone calls and start doing more more broader intel collection not only on not more well not only more free access into question foreigners but also on u.s citizens for otherwise more gray area general claims to justify those i think prime was sort of more like reference sort of like escalation of like sort of like the rationale of like oh we needed the patriarch because of
• 21:00 - 21:30 this i don't think he was sort of like alluding that we were going to get like a more intelligent separate eye because of like because of january 6 i think you sort of talked about like will the security around the capital be like we need this now and it's going to have to be permanent because of january 6. that i think he was he was making a parallel he wasn't sort of saying that we're going to get patriotic 2.0 i mean i have a feeling that it will it will it will correspond to whatever the threat level that the intelligence organizations etc whoever's monitoring this
• 21:30 - 22:00 uh thinks that it should it needs to be i mean i kind of trust these or maybe i'm really naive for that but i kind of trust these organizations to uh protect the the capital except for i guess january 6th uh is the exception to that but i i do kind of trust them to sorry to to know what they're doing which then calls into question i think the problem with this whole thing is that and i said this at the very beginning of this like i think the problem is that it
• 22:00 - 22:30 was sending mixed signals like that the house was doing one thing and the senate was doing another although the logistical reason that was brought up earlier is a reason that that could definitely convince me although we we just don't know because wild speculation as steven said earlier i i think basically the the way that the security apparatus works right now you know between the nsa and all the other intelligence agencies every all their measures are already so intrusive um
• 22:30 - 23:00 you you don't even really need to escalate that much to be able to cover a lot of your bases um and if you're talking about just straight physical presence and obstruction um in dc i i mean i used to work two blocks from the white house i have a lot of experience with capitol police and you know they're already um you know very very high on themselves and they they already do a very good job of keeping everybody away from certain things and especially you know the white house in particular um the white house uh you know has been marked off in these
• 23:00 - 23:30 huge uh regions for for quite a while so if you ever go to like the front of the white house you were you weren't even able to see like or like walk up to the gate like they have people push back like i don't know 100 yards or something all the way back to the street for quite a while um it's just it's the norm there um if that becomes the norm with the capital um i'm i think that you know it's generally a loss because before you you could at least you know tour the capital it was nice and stuff like that but i don't i don't think it's that big of a deal just from a physical presence
• 23:30 - 24:00 perspective i did great i think that i think the cap the capital police is needs to be strengthened i think they need to be more of a protective force like the secret service is to the president and less of a tsa like branch i mean i think you want to say something stardust oh um i was just going to say there's already such a huge presence within the
• 24:00 - 24:30 dc area of the capitol police and of secret uh secret service um i don't really see more presence around the capitol making a huge difference in the environment in the city just to somebody who's like from that area and has worked in that area as well so so let me try to take this from a different angle um all right so we have president uh biden um and uh
• 24:30 - 25:00 the bravery of establishment democrats in the face of of threats has not been great right like they haven't had like a great track record we could see that literally after 9 11 right um and who voted for what right who voted to give these powers um um who voted to uh uh have these foreign wars that were still important right now right um so do you think that a president biden uh would fight uh for these um uh
• 25:00 - 25:30 would fight for our civil liberties right he would take a stand here i'm really curious about that and especially because like honestly like people keep saying this man is uh the most uh progressive since fdr he hasn't been [ __ ] showing it he's been retreating on all his campaign provinces right um as you can see um so do you think that this is where he would take it what's bite or retreated on what okay i don't agree with that oh you don't agree with that are you sure careful okay um
• 25:30 - 26:00 okay uh where is his muscle behind 15 minimum wage what the [ __ ] is he supposed to do what the [ __ ] okay oh my god oh no we can do this no we could do it um fifteen dollars man uh an hour minimum wage yeah where's the most what can he do yes he has the bully pulpit right like um uh biden i feel like what we've seen here
• 26:00 - 26:30 uh biden is the same thing we saw obama right um can't figure out how to fight can't figure out how to uh place pressure on to uh uh senators or the congressman right uh when it's a progressive issue when something that's going to help the people right um uh we uh as the president right what he could do he could go to west virginia he could go to um uh these other states all right where uh we have these um uh democrats who've voted against the 15 on our minimum wage and we could let all the constituents
• 26:30 - 27:00 know this is what uh your uh center has done this is what your elected representative has been doing right he could actually put out that support um i don't think he agrees with the 15 minutes i don't think he does either i don't think you don't agree i don't agree with the 15 hour minimum wage but regardless whether i agree that i think democrats if they could pass it they should because it's amazing [ __ ] optics even if it's a dog [ __ ] econ policy people would like it enough that they would support the party i would promise how that would affect small businesses with how bad okay yeah regardless regardless of that but it can't here
• 27:00 - 27:30 the reality is is that you're holding on to a razor thin senate okay we've got 50 [ __ ] votes in the senate the idea that we're going to expend political capital trying to dig into people that we are like barely have a majority on that we're split even on and we're relying on the vice president of broke oh this is not so happy wage the time for that was in the it was in the election last year that was it we don't have enough in the senate we're not getting it here no i mean no no no no no well enough of the senate so we don't we'd have to have it we'd have to have so we're against it
• 27:30 - 28:00 yeah there were eight like guys we would have to have um eight more senators right beyond that what we already have um to make this happen right if we can't if biden cannot uh get his caucus together right for these priorities he said it was important to him he said oh yes fifteen thousand dollar
• 28:00 - 28:30 minimum wage that's the one thing he was he threw at bernie sanders right we're not just talking about a 15 hour minimum wage job if you want to fight for 15 minutes you can do that down the line right now you're talking about holding up a 1.9 trillion dollar coronavirus relief fund to try to get 15 hour minimum wage tacked on on a really hacky like budget consolidation measure like this is not like the normal way that you would try to pass some major legislation that's number one and then number two even if you could again we're saying that there's eight senators now you need eight more maybe you don't maybe you need five more you could get three to flip on it maybe you need like four more and you get four to flip on it
• 28:30 - 29:00 but right now when you're holding on to the senate with barely 50 [ __ ] dams with a skin of their teeth in there there is no [ __ ] way that you're going to sneak a 15 an hour minimum wage one of the largest minimum wage hikes in u.s history onto onto a bill like that where it doesn't even belong okay there's no way first of all i am the largest i am so happy that you you admit that uh centers can flip you can actually apply pressure and you can get people to flip okay so now that we've established that that's good now we can move forward um uh beyond that uh the reason why
• 29:00 - 29:30 um it was so important to um uh uh put this into um the bills because it's a must-pass bill right this is something that can't be dropped right biden's not still not allowed to be dropped his presidency presidency relies on this passing okay so uh if this was a priority he he'd have fought for it here but okay let's say let's say uh you're right stephen that um it doesn't make sense uh to do it now right like don't hold it up we need to get these checks out immediately we don't have time for these games okay great then what's his game plan uh uh
• 29:30 - 30:00 what's the next step uh uh for president biden so but so um we've heard um uh that it's not gonna be uh within this uh bill looks like that's not going to be the case so we have to work on bipartisan issues that are extremely popular across all of the united states that's all we can do right now because if you wanted to do more we needed more seats in the senate we don't have additional seats in the senate so we don't get to do that now that's it it's already it's already locked in the minimum wage is a bipartisan issue like you'll get you'll get support from that
• 30:00 - 30:30 raising the minimum wage to something like 12 an hour might be or maybe 11 15 an hour minimum wage hike is not a bipartisan agreement it's that's so [ __ ] high people like and i understand that people are still lost on like in coastal cities that they don't know that 15 an hour is just an unbelievably [ __ ] high wage but you do not have bipartisan support across the entire country for minutes yeah you're completely right like west virginia's economy if you look at west virginia if he isn't joe mentioned democrats don't have a seat in west virginia whatsoever west
• 30:30 - 31:00 virginia is republican joe manchin being such a blue dog democrat that all of us here are very disappointed with that's the only reason we even have a chance in the senate right now i love this i love this basically you're saying all right well why don't we make a mention the president because at this point right well we have such a thin majority right and we can't uh certainly put pressure on them right well joel manchin once uh joe manchin gets at that point at that point why why do we even first of all [ __ ] yes okay so let me play with the frustration it's like okay
• 31:00 - 31:30 you're really upset that we live in a democracy this comes down to you're really [ __ ] mad that you can't just take your agenda that's exactly what's going on hold on because progressives need to understand this and they don't for whatever reason okay what the progressives are very mad about right now is that they live in a democratic system what they really want to do is they want to find some way to take authoritarian control of the government so whether that means expanding the [ __ ] supreme court or whether that means finding some way to to overrule some [ __ ] in parliamentary end or find some way to get the cbo to rule something or find somebody to publish like everybody wants to try to do something that they just don't have
• 31:30 - 32:00 the democrats party so if you wanted an ambitious agenda you need more than 50 seconds holy [ __ ] first of all i promise i'll let you all in i promise i'll let you on i promise promise i will let you all in because i want to hear what you all have to say on this i promise i promise um i just gotta yell stephen here for a little bit um because he's [ __ ] wrong um first of all um putting uh uh words and intentions in my mouth um uh that i did not state right so uh yes we want to take over no i'm at all asking all i said is that
• 32:00 - 32:30 biden is dropping his campaign promises that's all i did right i didn't say anything about that i am going to sneak in 15 hours i didn't say i didn't say that i didn't say that one that he would absolutely even if he did everything that i want him to do that he would succeed i didn't say anything about that right i didn't say that he has the power to do this alone because he doesn't have the power to just alone uh we have separate powers in this country great um so i didn't say any of that and i didn't imply that i wanted that they're like i wanted to just simply push my progressive agenda
• 32:30 - 33:00 on everyone else right okay all i'm asking for and all i'm saying is that i need to see him actually fighting for these things because i don't see that at all i don't see it at all because you don't want to see him fight what you want to see is you want to see some weird authoritarian [ __ ] where they just steam roll through that's a nice strong man perfect another straw man uh coming in like super simply then let's just follow it out okay you tell me what you think you can do and i will tell you every reason why it's impossibly it's never gonna work go ahead let's start from the very top go okay all right uh we're probably putting pressure on these senators
• 33:00 - 33:30 centers right so okay so you want to put pressure on somebody like mansion the last time a progressive ran in west virginia to show that oh progressives could actually win they got like 34 of the [ __ ] [ __ ] obliterated i didn't know that i didn't ask for that sure so okay so number one that's not what i have for you that's not what i said okay you said pressure on senator so mansion is out you're not putting him on no no no hold on hold on uh you didn't even ask me what kind of pressure i'm talking about right so once again what kind of pressure he knows that he's not holding that seat to another democrat well if you're actually going to listen to me right it sounds like throwing up these strong man one enough to know they're right i'll knock them
• 33:30 - 34:00 off all right go ahead okay sure you can actually put pressure on them right just just like uh um okay literally i'm trying to tell you um you can go to a state right you can let his constituents know you can have a full court press letting them uh letting his constituents understand exactly what he did all right and let them be the judge of this right uh see they already are they so is that how american democracy works that's not the ground so yeah that is how it works and then
• 34:00 - 34:30 that's it right that's it that's uh there's no actual problem what you think what you think can happen is we can go to west virginia and say hey listen you dem's over here you're the same as the dems and aoc's district right don't you guys really want all these super progressive apologies and you know the people in west virginia look at the go you're [ __ ] crazy imagine it's our blue dog audience members and pressured him that way that's exactly what she did gentle
• 34:30 - 35:00 audience member uh members uh notice how destiny refuses to actually deal with the points that i'm putting up right and keeps uh uh uh giving me intentions right uh putting intentions on me that i have not stated at all okay try it again great so um as a dr vain uh uh conveniently pointed out yes this actually has been done before this is a viable strategy you can do this um if you uh think if that specific issue is a priority you don't do this on every issue
• 35:00 - 35:30 just in the things that you uh uh are considered to be a priority right so okay um uh as we understand in the in american democracy um uh uh participation doesn't just stop at the ballot box right it's not a one time thing uh if you if you simply um uh uh go and vote and then that's it right well then you're missing out on on the rest right because your elected representatives they take actions right and they are susceptible to pressure because they want power they want to keep their power certainly your [ __ ] mansion wants to keep this power right so uh if you could rally citizens
• 35:30 - 36:00 letting them know um that he's taking this action which is against your interest especially west virginia such a poor state right um uh that so many workers would be in support of let them know then they could actually look they can call his office right they can send letters they can do all these things right put pressure on their center um for this but that's not the only thing that can be done because that's the stick there's also the carrot right you can offer joe manchin something right like um this can either go with me um going to your state and doing everything that i just said or going into your state with you arm
• 36:00 - 36:30 and arm in front of a factory right like look at this factory joe manchin came into my office no boy he demanded he demanded that uh this factory go up for the good people west virginia and here here it is i i said okay okay uh uh oh uh oh joe manchin like um i hear you buddy i'm gonna make this happen and so a biden joe manchin standing in front of uh a uh some sort of project that uh benefits the people of that state that can happen that that's how a
• 36:30 - 37:00 business gets done in washington right uh i want something you want something let's make a deal i'm not seeing that happen right now you can you're gonna like really cool but it's just like i'm sorry but like you're not going pressure exists on a political level when somebody thinks they're going to lose a seat that's where pressure comes from mansion is not getting [ __ ] primaried by a more progressive dem if manchin loses his seat he's going to lose it to a republican so mansion knows because he's not an idiot and biden knows because he's not an idiot then
• 37:00 - 37:30 people aren't about to [ __ ] bully mansion out of a seat because we would rather have a 50th dem that is incredibly moderate or blue dog in that seat than having a 51st republican literally doesn't have to be it literally doesn't have to be a person who's more progressive like that's like not even it can be another establishment because first of all other establishment democrats voted for um uh the fifteen thousand uh minimum wage and they're not all progressive right we can understand that all the people who voted for that aren't all progressive so it doesn't take a progressive to realize that fifteen thousand dollar minimum wage is something that's helpful it's something
• 37:30 - 38:00 that people want right so crime so once we understand that once we understand that we can know that literally anyone else can primary him like if that's what you're talking about yes anyone else can pry me out but again uh there's uh sticks and there's carrots you can offer him something it doesn't all have to be like us threatening your seat it's another option there are many tools within the toolbar as a president that you can um uh uh use uh for this very uh for this very moment but i'm gonna let other people in um right now but go ahead so love you
• 38:00 - 38:30 want to jump in he he's he's been in office for less than two months and you're already trying it like you already expect for him to deliver on one of his biggest no i didn't say that i didn't say that i didn't say that like i didn't see it i said no i'm reading i'm reading articles like directly relating to the commonwealth harris and manchester relationship and uh it's uh tenuous at best of whether or not they will [ __ ] like be in line i'm [ __ ] anything and like the premise that's being proposed to you like what
• 38:30 - 39:00 like while you can push your voters and maybe like using your voters to pressure you to change your policies may work but at the same time it ultimately still goes into like destiny's point of the voters are still voting for him and now like even if hypothetically in that scenario where you do have a candidate where they happen to like the 50 minimum wage but would that not be indicative that there's probably some other policy that we ultimately otherwise disagree with as well that we're going to want to
• 39:00 - 39:30 push next like for example like we'll get that we'll get the blue dog damn that's where the 50 minimum wage then oh [ __ ] they're against health care so now we've got to wait [ __ ] six years to get the other guy dude dude that's awesome are you serious are you serious right now no like seriously like that's the point is right like like uh uh uh steven uh mentioned right the point is to actually put pressure on them right so like what the other guy may or may not do is not actually important right it's just that um are you in uh uh do you think that you could lose your
• 39:30 - 40:00 seat right so someone else can uh primary am so it's whatever right i'm not like it's not we're waiting for this other person right the point is to put up a credible threat against uh joe manchin and his uh power that's the point right so no we're not like imagining what the next person will do right um uh hopefully um someone would i would love for someone to [ __ ] primary this guy right but again it doesn't literally have to be someone who is a raging progressive like i would love right it doesn't have to be that person it just has to threaten his seat he
• 40:00 - 40:30 doesn't give a [ __ ] who who uh replaces him he doesn't give a [ __ ] about any of that he wants us to can i ask you one easy question okay if he thought that 15 an hour minimum wage was important to his constituents why wouldn't he just support it oh because first of all uh joe manchin has a business there in uh uh west virginia right uh where he's paying his workers i believe as i as i understand 10 cents over uh the minimum wage himself right so this would actually directly affect his own pocket that would like raising minimum wage directly he doesn't
• 40:30 - 41:00 personally have the business just to be clear i mean you're basically right but like he he doesn't own the business personally it's like he has ties to i think a couple of businesses so he's invested in those businesses correct right right right it's a conflict of interest so yes so he's invested in those businesses so he himself um uh would be losing money um if that was the case right if uh more money went to labor costs so um he has a vested interest and not uh changing things right there um and beyond that uh money and politics
• 41:00 - 41:30 which i haven't forgotten we're gonna have that fight later on but money and politics yes um his donors i i'm guessing weren't going to be uh too excited about this either we can look at whose donors are but um i'm sure if we go down the list i'm not sure they'd be super excited i'm raising their labor costs either well west virginia in general know i'm from a small town that entire state is decimated cold towns a 15 minimum wage would economically be devastating for these people and they are allergic to that policy so that line of thinking wouldn't exactly work but actually we had
• 41:30 - 42:00 um sorry polling sorry i mean i want to go back to something you said earlier you said something about like pressuring for important things we had like the vodarama today we had a 10-hour delay on that because we were trying to get democrats to be on the same page right that's like something that happened today so we're we're trying to push for important issues in this cover build again this this this two trillion dollar cove bill attaching the fifty dollar minimum wage is not going to happen that's just like not going to happen in this country so if we we spent ten hours today trying to get unemployment insurance right ui stuff to
• 42:00 - 42:30 to be across these eight democrats we're not getting 15 minimum wage that's just not happening okay you know it would have been a good move if they had instead pushed for like checks monthly either retroactively or happening like now till the end of the pandemics like give us something that is picturesque i think they retroactively taxes how many people could get it they literally cut how many people could get it didn't they retroactively forgive taxes on um on prior uh unemployment disbursements
• 42:30 - 43:00 through 2020 what no the it's going to be the it's going to be the unemployment for for this this year up to ten thousand dollars can be um can be will be like not taxed for this year so the ui going out for after this bill is the is the part my understanding was that they made it retroactive through 2020 that i think it was up to 10 000 and unemployment insurance benefits would be non-taxable
• 43:00 - 43:30 maybe pretty much maybe but now here's my question then how many people who are in a financially like dire situation even know how to like implement those taxes like those taxes you don't have at the end of the year you don't have to pay taxes on it you don't have to implement it you just do your taxes or pay somebody to do taxes or whatever h r block sponsor h turbo tax you just do turbo tax another while i'm here [ __ ] paying a thousand bucks back to the government um brian why do you think that mansion would want to save some employees and some businesses that he's invested in
• 43:30 - 44:00 instead of like winning his seat again you think that's more important to him sorry save some employees what do you mean so you're saying that like he's gonna so we're on so we're following the conspiracy trend now so you're saying that he's invested in some businesses that hire some employees that are working at below what the new minimum wage would be and you're saying that he's willing to throw all of his constituents under the bus and risk his election because of his investment ties to these businesses like 7 million first of all so i am i'm thinking uh i know watching uh the behavior of our
• 44:00 - 44:30 politicians in general that uh when it comes to own personal interests uh that is first and foremost so when it comes to maintaining their power um that is the most important thing how do they maintain their power well we have these amazing wonderful donors uh who uh fill our uh campaign uh hold on wait wait wait wait when we say maintain their power that's a good thing we want politicians to maintain their political power
• 44:30 - 45:00 they're not actually completing the work of the people they know i don't want them there no simply them being there something like [ __ ] nancy pelosi or whatever the [ __ ] right um being there for years on end right um if they're actually effective [Music] distracted by that that's a completely different conversation sorry um but like my point is i go to you i go to you next uh uh
• 45:00 - 45:30 stardust i will go to you next um um the point is is not simply for them to be there to exist no the point of them is actually accomplish the the goal of people to uh represent the constituent uh conservatives to the best of their ability if they're not doing that they can [ __ ] off i don't need them there you don't need them there um but we will get we can get back into this uh uh stardust stardust stardust please yeah i just wanted to add something um that might might kind of play into why he didn't
• 45:30 - 46:00 vote for this is uh it says um about 50 percent of west virginia employees are employed by small businesses so i imagine that a 15 uh minimum wage hike would uh negatively affect uh that group of people um uh i mean it's just speculation obviously but um it would yes minimum wage is much more popular and that's what manchin wants he wants a 11 dollar minimum wage increase
• 46:00 - 46:30 much more popular i think it's 15 points more popular in west virginia um and among every democratic voter and republican voter so that is the policy right now that's the signal position so yeah the average the average uh worker or at least 50 percent of the average workers in west virginia would be negatively affected by the 15 uh minimum wage hike so of course he wouldn't vote for it um actually so first of all the 50 so 50 first of all you're just assuming that that would uh um you would lose all jobs
• 46:30 - 47:00 uh there we've seen uh hikes and minimum wages i'm not saying i didn't say anything about losers jobs well you said negatively effective what do you mean by negatively effective then um they would get less hours things like that it's a mixture of things right okay so um uh we've seen uh uh hikes in the uh minimum wage right in other states right um and we've seen um like even localities like next to each other across the border right we've seen the results of these things i'll have to pull this up um but um we've seen studies of these uh
• 47:00 - 47:30 do they take into account small businesses yes yes all businesses yes looking at all businesses right and seeing that there isn't this massive uh uh a loss of jobs that's always used to scare people when it comes to this is not just real click on this we're gonna go this is brought up so many times okay people always try to say that like oh uh this has brought a minimum wage has been increased over and over and over again it hasn't increased that's very true and it hasn't led to a massive amount of unemployment that is very true but the minimum wage hike that we're talking about right now is way [ __ ] higher and if you read the the next sentence on
• 47:30 - 48:00 every economist that will ever tell you like oh yeah minimum wage doesn't even increase unemployment the next sentence will always be that's probably because the minimum wage is set to what the natural price flow would regularly be for wages that's always been is that what it is i'm not exactly sure what it is like natural yeah first of all naturally market forces were left on their own they'd probably settle a pretty close first of all i would love to see proof of that for i would love right now okay right now if you want just google like igm 15 an hour minimum wage and see
• 48:00 - 48:30 what like most conversations about it's probably super mixed opinions like that it's probably gonna be split down the middle where people think it's good yeah and look at the seattle effects so we can admit that so we commit that there's a mix of pain on okay so like okay so we we've gotten that far great we're making progress here um but beyond that um uh sorry uh beyond that no i [ __ ] [ __ ] forgot my point it'll come back to me looking back to me sorry um go ahead uh doctor vayne i'll get back to you so if we want to talk about like progressive labor policy like we need to be talking
• 48:30 - 49:00 about like biden's a union guy right he's supporting the amazon thing we should be leaning on him on that we should be like hey you like the amazon union let's do it let's you know we got comrades up in seattle who are taxing amazon we got comrades over here in burbank who are about to start taxing amazon like new york is already like there's this kind of stuff happening we can push in those areas like exactly if if west virginia wants to do west virginia this is a great opportunity for us to have the four years to criticize the
• 49:00 - 49:30 liberal project and to [ __ ] on joe manchin and then primary the [ __ ] out of him beat him if we can't do so but now here's my next question how many of y'all are going to show up to phone bank how many of y'all are going gonna show up to actually do the work because that's the issue is that like it it sucks because democrats are [ __ ] but at the same time they're not the gop who actually wants to completely disenfranchise us or at least popularity right
• 49:30 - 50:00 popular opinion so like joe manchin um he is sort of a necessity for west virginia those demographics i don't think are changing soon but if you want to look at races we can flip delaware is a very progressive state that has really really really conservative democrats which are basically only there because they've been there for a long time those are seats we can realistically um attack and i love the idea of focus focusing on labor real political power like that's what we should be pounding in right now we can't do much it's already set the government's set right now we're going to push for as much change we can
• 50:00 - 50:30 to help people right now like my political model was you know push for the ideal and work pragmatically on our way there and that's what we got to do we need to understand at least from my perspective real quick i i see we have four years to prevent a repeat of 100 years ago right like we're in weimar republic times so we're yeah we're real close we're real close so i'm so i'm getting my passport ready because i might need a dip but at the same time like we have a window of opportunity to like we were talking about domestic
• 50:30 - 51:00 terrorism um we can de-radicalize there was a lot of that actually happening under obama where he was like actively there was a task force that as soon as trump got in he immediately disbanded it which was entirely for the purpose of de-radicalizing people getting them exposure to brown people getting them to understand that we're not scary right and then on top of it like we could be having a better conversation about like what is actually happening at the border and what is actually happening with our foreign policy because we need for people to make the connection that the reason for why we have the status quo standard of living here in
• 51:00 - 51:30 the united states is because we run an empire in latin america and those people are suffering from it and they're coming here because this is where the money we extracted is that it's their money that we stole so that's why they're obviously going to come here as a result we need to be educating people we need to stop like [ __ ] on them kind of but they deserve to be [ __ ] on like when they're like extreme nazis but you know you know what i mean we can do better the destiny's point um from before so i linked to a young turk's article
• 51:30 - 52:00 that basically talked about um joe manchin and his ties to laquita and basically there was an analysis that was done that basically says pretty much all of the employees that work for that company are already making around 11 an hour so basically if you if you do the math support for an 11 hour an 11 an hour minimum wage would basically mean nothing them um so that's that's basically what we're talking about well that that's that's basically making the floor right so nobody can make less
• 52:00 - 52:30 than that so it basically is just saying you're not going to be able to fall below that granted you're probably going to have an inflation wages at some point over time um but again this is this is essentially the norm for him so that's that's probably a large reason why he's okay with it so i guess with that like if you say like um with with the case of like 11 an hour minimum wage like it and he he
• 52:30 - 53:00 has a company or he owns stock in a company whatever the whole situation there is like if they raise the minimum wage to 11 an hour and he has those people working for 11 an hour they're gonna have to raise the wage on those people too because if they're working a certain job and then it's harder than another job that's now like making that same amount they're gonna have to like those people are gonna leave like that and that's like i guess an
• 53:00 - 53:30 argument against 15 an hour wage to some extent but really i i guess the main thing i wanted to say was like if we want to convince him to support this like we have options that i don't know if they were attempted but like we could subsidize companies like like we could send money to west virginia like that could just be part of this bill like to west virginia like he could he could fight for that like he could like
• 53:30 - 54:00 actually support things like that um we could extend the length of time for rural states to like actually get to this 15 an hour uh we could change the formula like it doesn't have to be over five years like for every single state like it doesn't have to be the same for everywhere like it can be like more of like an actual formula to get there or uh i mean we could just straight up give exemptions to states like yeah that makes sense and that could be actually like that could be really interesting if like we if we like
• 54:00 - 54:30 exempted states that like like if we had like missouri a rural state that doesn't have 15 hour minimum wage we had west virginia like we gave one of them that like one of them actually accepted it and then one of them didn't i'm curious to see what that would do to the economies of both those states like it sucks that that's gonna like impact a lot of people but like it's you know if if that's what those senators want a point being really really missed is that the 15 minimum wage as proposed was going to be a gradual increase thank you
• 54:30 - 55:00 just like like someone mentioned like 11 was really popular west virginia if it would have passed it would be 11 right now like it would have been it would have been 11 this year and then it would have gone up to like 12 something next year like over five years it would have gone to 15 so this whole idea the policy that the democrats voted on in the senate was the gradual increase to fifteen dollars over the course of five years that is a gradual increase but what i'm
• 55:00 - 55:30 saying is it's rarely ever go above um what the what the federal minimum wage is unless they have a really really good economy like california exactly so this whole idea that like the proposal that the democrats the democrats wanted in that bill was going to be economically devastating to all these states is just categorically wrong okay real quick just on that quick fact 29 states have a higher minimum wage in the federal middle sorry yeah is it possible for us to shift away from wage as the marker for income towards
• 55:30 - 56:00 something closer to profit sharing and something closer towards worker actual ownership because wages based on time not upon the skill that you actually dedicate to the product right so there's like no way that that like form of economy would be like compatible with anything that is known to work at the moment though that's so that's a long term thing very long term like i'm i'm into it but that's not something that's realistic probably with even in my lifetime like it's like the talk right now is like
• 56:00 - 56:30 a 40 worker representation on boards on corporate boards during his run in 2016. yeah he did but he got crushed on those types of ideas so how are we going to implement it just get it get it he got crushed that's pretty popular because because here's the thing like you got to consider that we waste so much time we're in a sandpit every time we talk about the minimum wage because we're
• 56:30 - 57:00 going to have to have this talk in 2025 we're gonna have to have this talk again when we push it again rather than actually doing the math and setting it to something that is actually like i don't know rated productivity wasn't that like a better uh indicator for from like 1960s or what you do now or you just match with inflation like we do with the [ __ ] military like that we literally military increases are predicated on the inflation you're talking about things that make sense though that's not that's not how whatever the inflation rate is with that
• 57:00 - 57:30 year or with that previous year because we're going to talk about if you're going to talk about what if you're going to talk about what policies you went past you can't talk about what makes sense as uh clear i said or makes logical conclusions because that's not how a a democracy works in terms of our democracy and how our politicians are going to support it or not wait hold on wait hold on i want to fight against i disagree with this our government is totally logical and everything makes logical sense the reason why it feels like everything is irrational is because you're trying to pass a minimum wage on a federal level which makes absolutely no [ __ ] sense
• 57:30 - 58:00 the logical way to pass minimum wage is state by state that's that's the actual logical answer anybody that thinks that there's a one-size-fits-all minimum wage especially 15 an hour for every single state in the country that california new york and nebraska you would not have a federal minimum wage at all get rid of have a zero dollar an hour minimum wage yeah let the state set their wages 29 states already said it above the federal minimum yeah well yeah i think unionization
• 58:00 - 58:30 would be great um uh and if we had a president that would fight for those things too that would be great as well um but my problem is that uh if you have businesses paying people uh clearly starvation wages right people um cannot work uh uh one job right and make enough for a living that's a problem right should those businesses even be in business if they're not they can't pay their workers enough um for them even in the era let's say let's say uh we do like the variable minimum wages someone some of the people have been talking about right a variable minimum wage for
• 58:30 - 59:00 each uh uh different state that's okay sure right um but um at the very least people should be able to work one job one full-time job and be able to have a certain standard of living do you beli do you agree with that if you don't agree with that then uh i agree that anybody in the country that works full-time job should be taken care of but it's not the job of a company that's not their social responsibility you wouldn't expect them to do that okay yes we wouldn't expect to do that that's why we have a minimum wage great yeah what happens when you make the minimum wage too high and it gets too far away from the value these laborers actually produce they're just going to automate
• 59:00 - 59:30 so first of all hold on first of all the the value that americans have been putting uh in um our productivity has been rising for for decades right um and our uh wages have not been uh keeping uh pace our productivity has been rising for decades because of what college-educated engineers are contributing to our economy not because people at mcdonald's and burger king are getting better grades like great but they suffered they suffered just as much they just suffered justice i'm moralizing it it's an economic i'm not moralizing this i'm not moralizing that again you're putting intentions into my
• 59:30 - 60:00 uh no you're talking about like they're suffering and you're more like you let me finish my point then you'll understand what i'm trying to say but by what suffering i meant i mean i'm economically economically suffering that's the thing that we use that's a phrase right economically suffering because the floor is lower because the floor doesn't increase if you increase the floor of your wages right um then the wages above will increase i experienced this uh personally um when i was uh no at some point i had
• 60:00 - 60:30 a job right the minimum wage increased within my state right um and uh i had been making just above or just below that and guess what my wages got bumped because uh the floor came up right to retain me as a worker my my wages were bumped and that's happens all up and down the economy right because we haven't talked about just as many people that have the opposite experience by the way people that are working that have like gotten their wage up to like 13 an hour and then their state passes like a minimum wage hike and all of a sudden new
• 60:30 - 61:00 comers are making the exact same amount of money they are like i mean these stories go both ways like but that's a shitty employer but the very fact that the the floor is uh raised means that other people other people uh will have the opportunity okay here's a super simple question could we do a 15 hour minimum wage fifty fifty no no one's asking for a fifty nine wait why couldn't we no no one's asking for uh fifty dollars over
• 61:00 - 61:30 [ __ ] conservatives right yeah uh sean no no one's asking for a 50 an hour minimum wage right uh we're asking for a reasonable increase um that would match the productivity what i guess that fifteen thousand dollars minimum wage that's what i'm saying why is that reasonable how do you decide that that's the number because uh looking at um how productivity has increased over the years right um and seeing uh how our which has has um lagged behind fifteen thousand minimum wage uh would be a reasonable increase um to match that productivity that connectivity has not increased equally
• 61:30 - 62:00 among all sectors that is not true so what what is fifteen dollars an hour supposed to do for somebody living in silicon valley yeah it doesn't make any sense sorry excuse me when does it go on what does more money do for a person uh living in silicon valley who apparently can't our who can't right who can't on their uh current wages uh afford this area hold on holy [ __ ] holy [ __ ] don't interrupt me you can stop stop that right now thanks thank you um so at this moment you're
• 62:00 - 62:30 telling me this person uh making um uh whatever the minimum wage is in california i don't know what it is um but making that if they were having trouble um uh affording their place if they were having trouble uh making ends meet you're asking what would putting more money in their pockets too for them yes that would ease their burden exactly right and maybe some for some places um the uh uh the wage needs to be higher that's why we have uh state minimum wages right so you can raise it above that floor if that's what's necessary for your locality right but we
• 62:30 - 63:00 can understand that um there are certain states right southern states mostly uh that won't raise this memory no matter what they get rid of if we had a zero dollar uh we had no federal minimum wage they get rid of their minimum wage right and like let the the market take care of this no no we can understand that that there will be starvation wages if uh some uh some states some localities have the ability to do that so you think of the federal government got rid of the minimum wage all states would get rid of that i didn't say all states i didn't i literally didn't say all states i said
• 63:00 - 63:30 some southern states right some conservative states might get rid of their uh own animation that's a possibility too because if we aren't if we if we're saying that there should be no floor for a federal floor right then why should there be a state floor there should be a state floor because the state will ideally there should be a city floor that's the ideal but state is probably the most local love you can get it to because that's just what makes sense if you've lived in different parts of the country you just you know that to be true yeah that's true isn't really an argument
• 63:30 - 64:00 real quick i'm sorry that i said that it should make sense what i'm saying is the cost of living is obviously different in different areas if i go to omaha and i want to find a red a one bedroom [ __ ] lot i can find one oh yeah yeah you can find you can find apartments for downtown okay in the [ __ ] old market for like 13 400 bucks a month right if i want to find a the one bedroom that i'm in right here is 2400 a month okay obviously the wage requirements not the same between here and [ __ ] la and and over in omaha or in des moines or in chicago or right that's all i'm saying go ahead thank you
• 64:00 - 64:30 okay uh sorry i just i just wanted to respond to prime's point earlier which it kind of just rolls up what doesn't he was saying yeah so the like it just seems virtue signaling this idea that just passing 15 an hour is going to fix all the problems i didn't say that i didn't say that i didn't say that don't put those words in my mouth did i say that didn't solve all problems i didn't say that at all oh also can i say like that if you if it was to pass that's literally the opposite of the definition of a virtue signal is like if you literally put something into law
• 64:30 - 65:00 that is not a virtue signal like you've you've actually done the virtue and people advocate for it instead of doing something reasonable i just wanted sorry i just want to know for the record i didn't toss him out uh he dropped i he he just dropped but i didn't toss him out um so you can come on back right here like at the very minimum like like as opposed like no minimum wage couldn't you really just like copy pasta your argument for like let's say even [ __ ] wyoming and just have that at least be the federal
• 65:00 - 65:30 minimum wage yeah yeah we could and that's our dsp like the entire time this person should talk oh i'm sorry um uh i i just had a question so um were you being serious about like eliminating the federal minimum wage sure it's [ __ ] there's no reason to have it um so i guess for there there are states that i guess don't have one uh is what i what i'm yeah there are there just just for some people like
• 65:30 - 66:00 claire yeah five states don't have one at all on the books alabama louisiana mississippi south carolina and tennessee two states georgia and wyoming have one that is lower than the federal minimum wage so i would i i guess i would ask is uh uh like how would we how would how would we make sure that people are still making livable wages in some of these states like how would you propose that happens so we don't care about livable wages it doesn't mean anything we don't need somebody to make a living wage what we
• 66:00 - 66:30 need is we do we need to make sure that there is some bare level of like social factors that are met so you should have access to healthcare you should have access to a place to live you should have access to food and clothing like these are the things that have to be met the idea when you when you peg things there's a concept of like a living wage what you're doing is you're like shouldering the burden of taking care of society on firms that might not have the incentive to pay that much for labor that's just quite frankly not worth that much so then what happens is as the and this is why i asked um prime earlier over and over again why wouldn't we have a 50 an hour minimum wage the reason is because the farther you move away from
• 66:30 - 67:00 what the natural price level would be for some given labor the farther you get away from that the greater negative impact you're going to see in the economy where people that are low skill workers that only have some high school are going to fall greater greater greater unemployment that's what's going to happen the further you get away from it now as of right now our minimum wage has been set to like about where it's pretty close to where we would like naturally have our wages at anyway even if there was no minimum wage but if that gets higher and higher and higher and higher those people are gonna get [ __ ] so so then what would be the proposal to like make would it be to make housing more
• 67:00 - 67:30 affordable or what would be what would you say that we shoulder too much of the burden on on the wages that we make so what would where would you shift that burden then tax policy tax policy is so good you can target people so perfectly with [ __ ] taxes and make me rock [ __ ] taxes are nice because we can go after exactly who needs exactly what type of compensation the problem with minimum wage is minimum wage is like you you have like a circuit board that you're trying to attach a [ __ ] dial to and you bring in a sledgehammer you just you just try to like hammer it on if you have a kid that's fresh out of college
• 67:30 - 68:00 or not even out of college i'm sorry if you've got a kid that's like working in high school because he wants to make a little bit of extra money and you've got like a single mother with a family of three to try to set one wage policy for both of these people is just insane the the needs of these people are different a kid in high school can [ __ ] work and make eight dollars an hour like [ __ ] him he's like it's just extra play money for him his wage requirements are way different than a mother that has to provide like food clothing and education for like three people so here's here's part of that
• 68:00 - 68:30 so so how would uh i guess tax policy um fit into what you were saying about health care and and things like that so like a really good example of um well for for health care we should have we should have some form of like social health care um we have some form of like universal multi-pair or single-payer system sometimes um that's just like a given every single other country seems to figure that out with the united states mm-hmm um and then for other things i mean you've got like programs like the earned income tax credit you've already
• 68:30 - 69:00 you know somebody brought up the content early like negative income tax you know you have like ubi you have tax credits that are refundable for like number of dependents you have like there's a whole bunch of different ways to tax policies we can like razor target the people that need money in society rather than just saying like oh well all of you guys now get 15 an hour like good luck figure it out when that's just going to lead to increasing unemployment in the people that probably need that money the most okay but aren't texas like incredibly unpopular and and it's like yeah they're not stupid but they're they're so good like look at our irs i already run it because both sides [ __ ] hate
• 69:00 - 69:30 it and the irs is one of the few now that the irs organizations that is out there that they can't go after just because we don't have the [ __ ] funding for him i agree taxes are unpopular but that's just because americans are so so the point let's militarize the irs right like just give them tanks let's take all the [ __ ] militarization of the police let's give those [ __ ] tanks to the irs and have them roll into [ __ ] rich neighborhoods i want the irish to show up to my door i want
• 69:30 - 70:00 the iris to show to my door in a tank i want them to come out i want them to like demand oh my god is parachuting into [ __ ] gated rich communities jacking that [ __ ] overdue i i i 100 agree with you on this point um yes we should empower the irs absolutely let's let's do that um because uh for every like it's like for every dollar we put into the irs it's like like a dollar 20 or something along those lines you get back so um i'm definitely in favor i'm empowering the irs to go after these [ __ ] [ __ ] yes let's harass
• 70:00 - 70:30 them like we harass poor people love it um but i want to go back to your point um uh stephen on um uh about the kids right like oh well these uh these six-year-olds yeah they don't have uh the same um um uh right yeah that's not necessarily the case you don't know any uh particular uh person's um uh situation right so there are kids stop stop stop stop stop stop please don't give me the story of what about the one sixteen year old person that's actually taking care of 50 there's always going to be outliers of
• 70:30 - 71:00 course but broadly speaking and i will put my [ __ ] life on this you can take three inches on my [ __ ] dick if i'm lying okay broadly speaking a 16 year old kid going to high school does not have these same wage requirements as a single parent taking care of three [ __ ] um look uh i don't need to address your fetish here we can do that later privately um dma my dms are open okay but first of all no um we don't have to first of all compare them exactly to uh a person with um with three kids
• 71:00 - 71:30 right that's not oh wow hold on one second please uh one second um thank you um uh uh huff huff daddy huff daddy lol thank you so much for gifting 20 hot 21 gifts up to this channel that's so kind of you thank you for the support that's really kind of you um i'm not sure if we've already talked before um no we haven't uh you've just joined like a second ago um and you're already uh gifting that's awfully kind of you thank you so much thank you so much
• 71:30 - 72:00 um but uh back to what i was saying um no we don't first of all i don't have to like defend the point that like a 16 year old might have the exact same um uh needs as a mother a single mother um uh supporting three kids i don't have to defend that point however i'm saying that you don't know their situation right there are so many kids right uh uh with it within uh poor families right that do have to chip in i do have to help out and aren't just using this right for to buy video games where the [ __ ] right um and they're a wagers right if they are doing the same job why should they
• 72:00 - 72:30 not have the same work they're putting the uh the same effort the player is extracting the same amount of worth from them so why would their uh uh words hold on because first of all don't talk don't give me the same effort same work thing because if we were going to say that then [ __ ] minimum wage people like the the argument for higher minimum wage is completely out the window you're talking about just compensating people for like the value of their work or something then now you're justifying like the gross difference and pays between like ceos and like line-level employees if you if you want to say yeah justify the gross oh no that's that's nice
• 72:30 - 73:00 we're not talking okay we don't have to talk to you we guys we don't want to compensate somebody in society for their direct value to society okay that's a shitty idea i didn't say that i just i said the labor of the youth but you said that if two people are putting on the same type of labor they should get the same type of conversation yes i'm saying but you said to society i didn't say that i said to their job to the if i am lifting if i'm creating 15 widgets right and the other person is creating 15 widgets we're providing the same value to the business right why should our wages be
• 73:00 - 73:30 different starting anyway why should our starting regions be different ways to be the same but the compensation from the government has to be different that's what i'm saying for the government i have a question for you what i'm saying what i'm saying is that like let's say there's a single mother okay or a single father a single parent and you've got like a high school kid these people don't need the same compensation oh my god you're making me want to video game myself okay please do it hey look you can't handle this listen no jesus christ go ahead on an aggregate on average a single parent with dependents
• 73:30 - 74:00 has different wage requirements than somebody with no dependency sure okay okay working at a younger age the wage requirement the compensation more specifically needs to be different because the the person with dependence has more people that's relying on them so what i'm saying is that like the way that we would come to these people to try to say that the firm the company should pay them the same doesn't make sense well we could target them with tax policy if you haven't done that yeah of course i agree we do can it work the company that company is benefiting from their labor the company is benefiting from their labor right so the company should be the one uh to
• 74:00 - 74:30 pay the company is not gonna pay people fifteen dollars an hour force them to do that yes they will uh well they will automate it walk into any [ __ ] things they're living already on anything the goal is to automate right now i'm [ __ ] uber right the goal was to [ __ ] automate the the entire their entire fleet what do you think happened the higher the wages capitalists will do that anyway why would capitalists want 7.25 cents an hour uh in labor costs right when they could have zero or close to zero because you know
• 74:30 - 75:00 you don't have questions i'm saying dropping your later labor costs close to zero because you're allowed you're not zero you're going to pay people to maintain i know that's we can understand that we replace a factory full of workers right like we uh like that we understand that during the um um uh the automatization of the car industry right people were losing jobs right and then labor costs are falling we cannot yes there are people who maintain the uh the machines
• 75:00 - 75:30 yes that's that's absolutely the case right but we can understand that more people lost their jobs we we get that right that's how our music optimization works that you save costs right you save if you pay for gold accelerate the increase of wages then you make automatization more incentivized anyway they will do that anyway capitalists if capitalists can't automate they will automate okay if they if they are if the argument is gonna be they're gonna do it anyway let's just make them in wage three an hour and stop [ __ ] around i don't understand like it's like you're gonna do it anyway uh that's what is what do you think the rationale is
• 75:30 - 76:00 for any minimum wage there is the rationale for the minimum wage is that we're too stupid to set tax policy correctly so we're gonna use a sledgehammer to try to get like the same wages paid to totally different types of workers why do you think that there's this substantive benefit to the use of tax a policy as opposed to wage policy i mean tax because tax policy tax policy allows us to allocate the money exactly where it needs to go and exactly who needs to go to and the exact amount that we want it to but the the same arguments on the side of uh sort of the liberalization movement of
• 76:00 - 76:30 economies are made with respect to tax policy that tax policy necessarily distorts um that it creates deadweight loss in the same way that these kind of regulations do so my question is you know why you made reference to a natural wage before that that minimum wages prevent you from getting to the natural wage do you think absence a minimum wage we have something approaching a quote natural wage what is a natural wage whatever your labor is being purchased for by whatever company you go to work for well i think the policy rationale of minimum wages has to do with the
• 76:30 - 77:00 difference in bargaining bargaining position between actors so actors that are highly sophisticated like employers are able to extract increasing amounts of rents from employees who aren't sophisticated and don't have bargaining leverage and for whom employment is an inelastic a good and therefore uh they're able to have a much lower wage than what is socially efficient and that's the purpose of minimum wages but it totally depends on the type of labor market we're talking about so we look at if we look at for as much as i [ __ ]
• 77:00 - 77:30 hate him if we look at trump's labor labor market prior to the coronavirus our unemployment was like [ __ ] three and a half percent it was unbelievably low and you could drive around these cities where these wages were going up and up and up and people could not find workers to fill their shops it was [ __ ] unbelievable like some of the squeezes that people were in now i do agree with you that there are times where if you want to talk about like monopsony power so like you can only get to one job yeah you're pretty [ __ ] when it comes to bargaining and i do agree with you that the bargaining power between labor and capital depending on where you are can be heavily distorted in favor of capital
• 77:30 - 78:00 absolutely this is a really good argument in favor of things like unions which was being talked about earlier but to come at it with a federal with a federal [ __ ] minimum wage with the biggest [ __ ] battery [ __ ] hammer that every [ __ ] firm in the entire [ __ ] country has to pay 15 that is like the sloppiest [ __ ] sloppy joe plot like on a all over the bunker is it sloppy it is we have federal regulations over uh
• 78:00 - 78:30 certain types of industries and we have federal regulations with respect to finance absolutely it is you want a really great example of this really sloppy type of regulation look at intellectual property laws and look at how horrible they've been at keeping up with stuff on the internet in digital content because we have like this huge one-size-fits-all we have a moderator okay but imagine imagine what our intellectual property rights would be if the substantive law were all decided by states i mean think about what what it is to have intellectual property these with the internet and it's harder when we decide that state by state because there's so much commerce like that's legitimately like entertain
• 78:30 - 79:00 commerce right but when it comes to labor that's a much more localized course you're not allowed to sell your labor on a national market generally right unless you're lucky if you're an engineer white collar worker you are but if you're like a lower class or if you work at mcdonald's you're not selling your labor on the on the national market you're doing it like [ __ ] down the street the world is changing you know that may be more you know i think there's other policy rationales for federally regulating certain industries and ip as opposed to labor on a federal level but there are a lot of rationales for having one rule fits all one of them is
• 79:00 - 79:30 like lack of transaction costs everyone knows what the rule is everyone's on notice we don't have to argue about it i think there are a lot of benefits to having one rule as opposed to many different principalities benefits but if that rule is too broad and causes too many external harms like for instance increasing unemployment between low-skilled workers like it has in seattle where the minimum wage was only like three dollars different when they reached the 15 hour like then you have to stop and watch we know we let's look at this rule with respect um we know that minimum wages are gonna decrease labor uh the labor force if they didn't
• 79:30 - 80:00 i don't i don't know what it would be doing we we accept it as a cost that when we have a minimum wage we establish it people are going to be priced out of hiring and but we think that either there's there's gains to productivity somehow and keep in mind for all these cbo reports one of the assumptions is that there's not going to be a gain in um in growth we think that there could be growth effects as a result of a minimum wage increase and we think that um it might divert other costs from the government theoretically if you could though how
• 80:00 - 80:30 base would it be that you have two people working at like burger king and one is a high school kid and he's making 9.50 an hour and then another is like a you know single parent they're breaking 915 an hour but like at the end of the day the the person the single parent is getting like twice as much on their paycheck because they're getting like tax kickbacks why would you ever hire the older person in that scenario they're making the same amount i'm saying they're getting more of their paycheck but the government yeah well why not charge them zero an hour and then just like fix it on the back end through taxes
• 80:30 - 81:00 then i don't because i don't think the because they're still gonna pay something right why why because you're gonna have people that are participating in the labor market that don't require all those government i mean if i'm working at burger king and somebody's else is doing the same job we're both getting paid the same amount but then my taxes are like giving me double or whatever the [ __ ] like why not just pay us both zero and then have the the government do it through the back end and pay pay us that same amount because some company that is gonna start paying their workers two dollars an hour and you're going to go to get
• 81:00 - 81:30 all of your taxes and then work for two dollars and then another is going to be three we're deciding that we need to limit it at some point no we don't eventually like the market would settle on some wage where people are going to pay you what they think they count as a share of their labor costs right but this is already being arbitrarily decided by the government like what the person deserves if we're if we're like giving him the truth right on the tax end we can make that decision like hey like if you're a single parent you need to make this much money like we're going to make sure that you know we shore up your wages it's going to happen like that's going to happen from the general fund you don't think this is an issue
• 81:30 - 82:00 with distribution um you think i don't know you think that we have to solve this with distribution but redistribution i'm fine with that but do you think that do you you acknowledge that the distribution is the issue that we're fixing here yeah with redistribution yeah so what are your solutions to addressing the distribution aspect there is no good solution that i've heard for addressing the distribution so let's go to um
• 82:00 - 82:30 that i'd like to give y'all real quick i don't know we can look at it you want us to read like a 15-person panel no no no no no no no i'm just i'm just posting it for you i mean one just because i was i was looking through this and you know just because i want to be able to cite this right but um essentially it's just saying that like there has been a massive increase in the amount of like ceo pay versus like worker pay right is that like increase of that pie going to the ceo not the issue that we should be addressing well what destiny is suggesting is that these ceos and executives are
• 82:30 - 83:00 much more productive than other workers and they're and they've and he would want to tax them at the back end small businesses as well um so but i also want to go ninetales has been waiting patiently thank you yeah um i was hearing about the automation thing and i noticed something that i wanted to call out but it would have been just i would have had to talk over somebody um i think destiny's argument that automation is just going to take over
• 83:00 - 83:30 and they're just going to use that in place of paying workers in minimum wage it's a reason to do the 50 minimum wage sooner before a lot of this automation technology is available and reliable then later when it is available and reliable and it's easier for employers to do that i also think that your overall analysis seems to be very flawed you i i don't know if you're willing to criticize capitalism in this so don't you see how like if workers did own the means of production if not the actual businesses themselves they'd be far more incentivized to value
• 83:30 - 84:00 themselves and each other's families than a ceo would who just owns like the capital or whatever sure super quick easy question and if the workers on the means of productions how do you start a new company oh public banking how does the public bank decide who gets to start a company what do you mean as in let's say a million people is there no such thing as a co-op you have a chamber of commerce that decides what is a co-op a co-op is a formation of a business where everybody has no ownership that is an incredibly difficult time to start because getting access to capital is very difficult
• 84:00 - 84:30 because you can't sell shares of your company but that's because of capitalism here no if you didn't know because it's because you're banning uh outside ownership and outside investors if you if you need to have a worker buy and then almost by definition you're not allowing residual claimants from outside um and so you you have to rely on your financing not all either claims right a lot of corporations and a lot of people don't want to finance their adventure with debt claims because it's highly risky and people don't want to loan to this startup
• 84:30 - 85:00 with just that claim so they'll sell residual claims or shares and so there's problems with fi so destiny's not worried about any particular subset of the economy he's worried about everyone overall and so you were saying that you know maybe in one system that there might be more labor benefit or benefit for the labor force in one system as opposed to another no mike it's like a criticism he's not willing to factor in capitalism into his analysis well factor in capitalism but you have to give me a better alternative and co-ops just have huge problems with initial capital it's hard to start a new business like
• 85:00 - 85:30 dr van over there is saying well what about banks well how so what does people have to vote on which businesses get to start in a society today if capital is the issue then it's starting to sound like not capitalism is a solution we currently solutions are not first of all no why not true anybody can go and get an sba loan if they want you to go to the chamber of commerce to get that approved what are you talking about the chamber of commerce not the chamber of commerce that's what you chamber conferences uh that sounds like an answer to your own question no how is it what i'm asking is is that so right now in my system if i want to start a business all i have
• 85:30 - 86:00 to do is raise money and i can start a business okay and in a co-op system how do you start how does anybody decide who gets to start a business do people not like crowdfund things nowadays is that not possible i'm gonna video games really so out of the question because magically i think we're kind of getting lost here he's just not responding sure that you have to [ __ ] like welcome to society like oh do you want to start a business well here's indiegogo good luck
• 86:00 - 86:30 raising you're making it sound impossible um everyone shut up everyone please thank you i started to see your hand um um but yeah i i see i think we're getting lost now um because the issue was 15 our minimum wage right and now we're getting lost in uh different uh business types now i would love to uh increase uh the number of co-ops and i think we could uh uh alter the rules um of our
• 86:30 - 87:00 system um of our banking system for instance to make this more feasible uh so they get startup capital or or uh for instance um i encourage them through uh government grants or loans or whatever i think there are ways to do this um but we're getting lost in that so i want to get back to this uh idea of 15 hour minimum wage okay um uh so i'm going to take a quick a moment um to say uh uh thank you uh catarana for gifting that five hot 2 one gift subs and katarana for like i think right now in terms of my pay pal donations you're number one all the way
• 87:00 - 87:30 for the month thank you colorado for being so kind um those are tier threes those were two threes she gave what two threes no yes holy [ __ ] you gave to threes holy [ __ ] i did not notice that oh wow thank you thank you for those five hot tier three subs what i did not notice that thank you for letting me know holy crap colorado holy crap um quite a crowdfunding your business yeah almost there we're almost there thank you for the five tier three um subs colorado holy cow i hope you saw
• 87:30 - 88:00 that hopefully you just didn't leave the moment i said this um but anyway okay so uh we are uh we're gonna get our minimum wage yes yeah 50 000 minimum wage let's go to a stardust and then um uh canadian uh well i was just gonna comment on the stuff from before but i don't want to uh do that so yeah i don't want to go back on that right now um yeah so let's go uh canadian are you gonna talk about 15 hours on which yeah okay okay so um i just want to ask the room
• 88:00 - 88:30 um how do you guys feel about tying the minimum wage to product productivity increases because i'm looking at a center for econ and policy research paper that states that if we were to do that one it would be much higher than 15 and two in the long run that would solve this issue of always having to legislate legislate what our minimum wage is in any given time period what is productivity okay can we real quick okay do we know we know that all all black people in this country are the same right we know that there's different groups right we know that all brown people in this country are not the same right we know that all white people in this country
• 88:30 - 89:00 are the same whenever you look at something on such a huge aggregate you totally miss everything when people do these things where they talk about productivity and they say well the productivity of the american worker wages haven't kept up that's not actually true at all what's happened is is people have taken like our productivity on an aggregate and then they said that like the aggregate wages haven't kept up productivity has massively spiked in certain industries and it hasn't spiked in others like productivity is increasing among like the white collar like college educated engineering jobs that's where the massive gains of productivity are the idea that we would pay like a
• 89:00 - 89:30 minimum wage and say that well productivity is growing everywhere so it should keep up with all that like do you want to peg a minimum wage on everybody in the aggregate productivity like sorry i also think people of a minimum part of the appeal of the minimum wage is also having a bright line rule and not having to do a lot of calculations about any particular industry and so i think a lot of those efficiency gains from having a minimum wage and having something just tell you what you have to pay with the threshold you lose some of that when you have to have these like back end calculations tied to a particular industry so so you have a major part like
• 89:30 - 90:00 the problem okay so i was going to say go real quick good so from like a general perspective right like so increases in productivity are partially due to like on automation these two machines this applies to low skilled weight uh labor as much as it does high school labor like mcdonald's spends millions of dollars per year making like the back rooms more efficient so the average like amount of of of of money that's produced per even the lowest skill lowest skilled labor is incentivized to be higher so i don't see that as
• 90:00 - 90:30 that being that ridiculous because even in those low-skilled jobs we do invent machines to make those straps more productive and more economically beneficial to those industries but you're talking about things that happen basically on the back end because a corporation does well and and makes more money doesn't necessarily mean that that basically the low-skilled front-end worker is basically doing more or is actually producing more to destiny's point so say for example if you put the the illness on the business to basically have to pay say 20 an hour or 15 an hour minimum wage
• 90:30 - 91:00 that increases the likelihood that they're just going to try and and out efficient um or basically make that front-end process more and more efficient so that they can gain more money this goes back to the the whole problem to begin with which is basically that we can't properly tax these corporations and people that make giant amounts of money because you're basically you're saying the the people at the bottom should basically have a bigger chunk of the share i think everybody can agree with that the point is is that the approach is there is different or is maybe is a wrong-headed approach okay i want
• 91:00 - 91:30 to take issue with with destiny's panacea of tax policy i think there's no such thing as a free lunch and every you know expenditure or benefit that you're you're giving to some sector of the economy is taking an expense of another part of the economist that's paying a representatively a larger amount of time from the [ __ ] wealthy people they can afford it but but it it distorts things in just the same way or or you know maybe we can have differences of opinion about how it distorts in what magnitude but it distorts things just as
• 91:30 - 92:00 uh wage policy might my problem is why do you have this specific criticism of a federal minimum wage and not other types of federal regulations it seems i mean it would decline the federal regulation i think that any particular rule should be like as specific as is reasonably possible i don't think you would disagree with that now i agree that there's going to be like we shouldn't have like for instance so for taxes we shouldn't have an individual tax code for every single different us citizen but like taxes are something that we can do at a sufficiently like um complex and sophisticated level per
• 92:00 - 92:30 person so like why not um but i mean there are going to be other things that need to be more broad when we talk about certain regulations it just depends on what we're talking about we would have to think of the particular thing so do you think that everyone the country would be better off were we to abolish the federal minimum wage only if it was replaced with like other types of like minimum social safety net programs okay so then my problem then is uh in a lot of your conversations key i feel to your policy prescriptions are is like kind of realism is
• 92:30 - 93:00 understanding that policies don't exist in a vacuum that they're they have to be implemented and whether or not it's done in concert with other actors matters and so are you confident that you can have this kind of decentralized push towards greater worker [ __ ] now right we only got one pocket i said it on the beginning of this panel i think democrats passing 15 hour minimum wage is based as [ __ ] for their platform it would give them a ton of political popularity but i think that there are other things that are more important to push for that not only are more pragmatically possible but i think move us towards a better economic ideal
• 93:00 - 93:30 so for instance if i'm going to see political capital spent in one area god damn it needs to be in [ __ ] healthcare that is something that has to there's so much more agreement in the healthcare world than in this [ __ ] minimum wage world and the and for the healthcare [ __ ] we don't even have to use our brains okay we can go [ __ ] full stack overflow mode we just copy paste a solution from another country right into the united states obviously it's gonna be a little bit different implementation but this is something that every other country has figured out like let's start there and then once we have healthcare figured out our conversations about minimum wage become so much less heated because now it's not a conversation
• 93:30 - 94:00 about whether or not somebody can afford their [ __ ] chemotherapy or not now it's just like okay well what what what don't we provide right now in society that the wages aren't i i agree that minimum wages aren't going to be a huge boost of growth in this country and shouldn't be on the top of progressive list but i also think you're being a little bit naive about the complexity and difficulty of passing health care regulation in this country we've had numerous eras where we've tried to pass health care regulation and it's been defeated and we've got to take it it took a huge amount of pushing and we had to have the drug companies on
• 94:00 - 94:30 board the american medical association on board all the insurers on board everyone in concert even then right it was it's been yeah but there have been huge pushes like that we have we've had women's suffrage we have the civil rights act we have gay marriage like there are we have the aca it's a lot of political capital so what you're saying is not trivial he got the crime bill and we lost congress for it we got the the assault weapons ban was a big part of that democrats paid a huge price for the aca we got that we lost congress for six years democrats paid a huge price for it like yeah there's a lot of but you suggested that you know healthcare would be an easy compromise and we could it's an easier thing to go through because i think we're at that
• 94:30 - 95:00 moment in u.s history where the conversation now has moved to that well you're getting like a lot of bipartisan support on things like not single-payer not the insane stupid [ __ ] [ __ ] that that that these medicare for all lunatics points right insane to implement not say the implement but not insane politically like it's dead on a rival you should clarify that yeah this is like aborted out the [ __ ] dick before it's even made a [ __ ] embryo okay that's how dead that [ __ ] is but on on successful multi-paired systems okay hold on i'm telling you a lot nine tells us how to hand it forward yeah no hon um and before that is uh uh julia who's had
• 95:00 - 95:30 his hand up so i'm gonna go to joel at first um yeah i wanted to ask um destiny his general view on this system is essentially let the market work and essentially how it is right now let it grow and then build a big welfare state around that which i think is something that works especially if we're going to assume automation will be coming and automation still will be producing you know wealth and value so we need the mechanisms in place to make sure we're able to use that value in an effective way now so that is a much better long-term
• 95:30 - 96:00 plan um it seems like the 15 minimum wage is yesterday's news when it comes to preparing our economy for the future yeah 100 markets are so good at doing what they do let them do what they do and then we'll just take care of everybody else on the back end use tax policy for it don't [ __ ] with the markets so much like people like rent control and crazy [ __ ] like that like the marketing policy let them do what they do like market socialism yeah oh man yeah definitely disagree but let's go to uh ninetales and then uh i think uh captain agents had his hands up then maybe i'll jump back into this uh go
• 96:00 - 96:30 ahead ninetales yeah so i i quickly read over a couple meta-analysis of the adverse effects of minimum wages in various places not just the u.s it seems like specific labor groups may be more vulnerable than others particularly part-time employees and their ability to be retained however i'm hearing a line of logic that goes we can't stop this sort of thing from from being abused or we can't stop certain workers from being hurt so we just shouldn't do it i think that
• 96:30 - 97:00 that the more that we get into like well okay it's not all laborers that are going to be negative effectively just very specific ones the more uh the more we can regulate these things and the less abstract it is to to regulate that you know part-time employees are part uh you know i don't know in this case it would probably be like a contract or something that they that they get to sign but um in general i think that protecting workers while giving them a higher minimum wage is better than uh not giving them a higher minimum wage
• 97:00 - 97:30 and not protecting them okay um jones yeah so i mean like i think something that we're kind of uh missing here might be like the might be like as leftist because i think i do this too like i want to live an id in a in an ideal world as well where everyone can get paid a fair wage uh no matter what what their what they're working on but like uh i i would totally settle for
• 97:30 - 98:00 an 11 minimum wage right now rather than pushing for 15. i think that it was really over ambitious of the democrats to push for a 15 minimum minimum wage in the um in the relief bill i think that's something they could have tried to do later maybe but like doing it in the relief bill i think was just a really big overstep because what we have to realize like i'm i'm in san francisco i'm in a [ __ ] bubble i'm in a liberal utopian bubble it's amazing it's awesome
• 98:00 - 98:30 but the problem is there's people in the middle of the country like where joe manchin is and he's not in the middle of the country he's not in the middle oh i don't even know where the [ __ ] west virginia he's just a senator but so what but what i what i understand though is that he's basically like a blue dog democrat he has to cater to blue dog democrats in his area and it's a very conservative uh uh electorate i mean really it just boils down to the electoral colleges [ __ ] up and that might be what we want to aim
• 98:30 - 99:00 our focus on getting rid of that why are we talking about the rightness or wrongness of the policy if this is all you know political posturing and and and sort of getting a right strategy that appeals to people in the right places but let's say that but you know having these discussions on the merits about whether or not minimum wage is good or not i think that to be fair that wasn't the original discussion the original discussion was over whether or not biden i think should have been pushing for it so that's why we were discussing well i don't know what else boston could do i know you know people who are blaming gliding for this thing i don't know i'm saying oh okay so pisco
• 99:00 - 99:30 peace go this is this oh [ __ ] was that was that your position file i'm sorry no no it's fine that was fine because you know you weren't here for it like i'm saying uh they're uh bride has a bully pulp but he hasn't actually put any um executive muscle uh behind uh this because i don't think this is actually a priority he says it's a priority of his but i've literally seen no proof of it whatsoever um and addressing um um i can only address part of your point now uh uh hey john's fault i'll address the rest later um but in terms of um
• 99:30 - 100:00 uh uh attaching the this amendment um to this bill right now you can argue on strategy that's one thing you can already go on strategy maybe this wasn't the best strategy i'll argue against that because um we for something like this it needs to be attached to um uh a must-pass bill right like uh doing this clean on a clean bill is gonna be even a harder lift even tougher lift uh to make happen um so uh if you actually want to get this done i would uh attach it to a bill that must like or
• 100:00 - 100:30 like for instance like if not this then um like the the defense um the defense act like the uh defense pay act i forget the name of that um product i don't know it's that's i'm blanking here but you guys know i'm talking about the uh the bill that um um pays for defense uh yeah so defense appropriations bill sorry um yeah so like that's another option right but it has to be on a it's almost certainly needs to be on a must-pass bill um so like that's just the strategy of it to avoid the filibuster is that the same thing
• 100:30 - 101:00 yes to uh to to avoid to avoid the filibuster um i would be one way of doing this um or um or just because like it's something that needs to go so like if you once the amendment is attached right um unless it's uh somehow removed um then i mean job's done job's done because guys you guys also can't be naive all right so all these people who are who are these senators and stuff you think that they don't know that this is going to fail when they when they put it forth in some ways you could i don't know that
• 101:00 - 101:30 this is happening i'm not in their ears but you can imagine a world where biden is giving people like joe manchin and cinema an opportunity to vote something down so that they're better they have a better opportunity in their electoral races in the future so don't be naive also about uh you know the what it seems like the purpose of putting this forth might not actually be the purpose you know i'm biting all the way about democrats all the way baby i'm 100 100 agree with you um but i can see it from from the other side as well right um one like what if people voted it down you think you think those other sticks would have
• 101:30 - 102:00 if it was gonna pass they would have wouldn't have voted for it they're doing it for a reason that's definitely a possibility as well so like yes don't look at things from face value 100 agree with you there but also um um there is utility even in the loss right even here in the loss uh because now you know who's against it right um possibly maybe other people would have voted it down who knows um but we yeah but the implication is against you because it's going to help their electoral odds
• 102:00 - 102:30 well actually their constituents super want that but all those politicians are super corrupt and they all own businesses where they underpay their poor hispanic illegal immigrant employees they're dying with heroin needles out their arms okay they're being sold out by these politicians i'm so happy to experience once again the magic of your argumentation i got your back i got your backpack
• 102:30 - 103:00 plenty of uh straw man ahoy uh the straw man emporium that's what you'll find at uh the destiny's channel twitch.tv slash destiny right if you want to straw man you need a straw man uh destiny can provide you don't worry um but um so i think i think one uh the i i know like from polling that it is actually popular right it's a popular um uh position right to increase the minimum wage right um now um i think also um that uh if if
• 103:00 - 103:30 outside groups are going to have a chance of putting any pressure on them at all right you have to identify the people um who've actually voted against it right so yes sure some people um uh maybe it's impossible it's a possibility that some of these senators uh can't be moved right but as uh destiny admitted um [ __ ] a half out of 90 minutes ago um some centers actually can be flipped but first you have to identify them um who is actually holding this up who is voting against this right now that we have that that's the that's
• 103:30 - 104:00 another step um uh down the road of actually getting this thing passed later on right okay um so um so can i jump in uh sure you can jump in and then uh but before that uh actually gosh uh thank you for joining us and then we'll uh go to you strawberry uh it's been a while it's cash okay so i think uh there are a couple things that are being missed here first of all when we're talking about like whether or not there should be a minimum wage at all no one is talking about like what a wage
• 104:00 - 104:30 is actually for uh people earn wages so that they can [ __ ] survive so they can buy food and housing and stuff like that that's crazy right so and i kind of agree with something destiny said later um which is that yeah there should be a big social safety net so i think if you can decouple like your ability to live from your need to work uh then yeah i'd be i actually was talking about this the other day with you know people in my life like yeah we could abolish the minimum wage as long as everyone has their needs met at that point that's fine and i think
• 104:30 - 105:00 honestly that's probably better than a 15 minimum wage um because you're not pricing pricing people out of the labor market from their natural wages whatever the [ __ ] that means something nonsense [ __ ] just real quick because i know that a lot especially for lefties i know it's not popular i don't really care i know i really don't care oh wait i'll just keep talking about the audience wait wait wait wait i want to hear this disagreement [Music] let gash finish we can get back to
• 105:00 - 105:30 stephen he's got plenty of time to talk because economists are wrong about everything all the time so that's not true my favorite thing about lefties is they're like they're one stone's throw away from like [ __ ] anti-vaxxers or like the jewish conspiracy theory most of them can't see it wanting to you know like be anti-semitic
• 105:30 - 106:00 or anything um i don't know where that came from buddy i love love you too stephen keep going uh so anyway yeah if we if we can decouple like they need to work um from the ability to live then yeah there should probably be no minimum wage that's like a very different society we live in um obviously and then yeah i mean is it in in terms of um the politics of it yeah i mean i agree
• 106:00 - 106:30 with with prime that like you would have to if you were going to pass the 15 minimum wage which by the way phases in over four years and apparently the only poll i can find a majority of west virginian or support it's like 16 support yes policy um so it's actually winner for joe manchin so yeah i mean you're kind of out of reasons other than his corruption do you think he's irrational guys
• 106:30 - 107:00 i think it's a naive to assume that he's just irrational i think there's of course he's not irrational he's gonna he's gonna he's he's guarding a casual interest yeah he's pretty solid in his state and he stands to make money off of not raising a minimum wage so i think it's her personal benefit what that he's that he is not it's either that or he's posturing or he's like trying to make a power play in politics and 63 of west virginia
• 107:00 - 107:30 supports again if you could send me that poll again because i was looking for it uh gosh um yeah but joe manchin has an easy out right because joe man people don't vote on this this policy per policy way they're affected by policies but he can say to his constituents you know i i represent a guard against attacks on our institutions and this the parliamentarian said this was not allowed under the budget reconciliation process that voters give a [ __ ] about that no no no one conditions people
• 107:30 - 108:00 not a [ __ ] person anywhere sam i see your hand up don't worry i i've got you uh you'll be at the strawberry um and then starters i see your hand up as well okay i just want to say so moderates perform incredibly well in recent elections susan susan collins out did her polls by like eight nine points polls were raised
• 108:00 - 108:30 just like they work against bernie you're just i think um when moderates make these decisions to like stop certain legislation even though it might be popular they're not doing it because they're looking at polls myopically they're looking at the the feel of their cannon and who they represent who they are and they're i think they're they're guarding the notion that they're elected they're electable and uh and so yeah so i i think that there's more to it than just looking myopically at a singular policy poll oh yeah well obviously
• 108:30 - 109:00 is left-wing or not yeah yeah i mean oh god it's just so much to respond to here um but i'll have to leave that alone for now but i can get back to you later peace ago i mean i mean it's it's one of two things either he's acting rationally because he's won in west virginia and he knows what it takes to win or he's a corrupt assault
• 109:00 - 109:30 do you think sonny has no consideration in politics do you think that maybe uh joe manchin money and receives money from donors um who would not like uh the minimum wage uh raise if your goal to maximize the amount of money that you receive in this world then you should get out of politics that's because politics isn't like the most lucrative thing do you not know that literally is worth seven million dollars that's a super rich what are you talking about holy [ __ ] holy [ __ ] holy [ __ ] holy [ __ ] um ah that's not what i meant
• 109:30 - 110:00 i meant campaign donations right so not putting the money directly in his pocket is for him to be reelected that's what i'm talking about no i'm not talking about what you're talking about but that's nice and thank you for the next delivery of another straw man thank you that's what you know it's all addressed to all addresses so so yes i think that that politicians are motivated by campaign finance reasons and but that i don't understand why you think oh i see so the the train of logic is not that he's personally going to profit but he's campaign oh it's both
• 110:00 - 110:30 well because they're probably still money in the campaign contribution nice job he's so good at it he's amazing thank you so much but all right um so look i got to move down this line because we've been waiting right um so uh i had decided the line of strawberry um uh sam um uh stardust and ninetales okay uh looking at this minimization you know what destiny was talking about like i can see you know the tax facing
• 110:30 - 111:00 the tax credit um as as you know to compensate for the difference in people's situation and that would not but if you just look at what the weight minimum wage is now the 7.25 an hour uh once you got for taxes that's about 870 so if you you know account just not account for the high school workers that's saying that anyone working the minimum wage job they have to live off of 870 a month i think that i think that's ridiculous
• 111:00 - 111:30 once you once you even pay for rent and then food what do you have left for transportation to work lights in your house water i mean it seems unreasonable i think more reasonable would be the 15 an hour so you would give someone 1800 a month to live and then if they had three kids or they had you know under other extinguishing uh circumstances then you use the tax credit to phase that in to you know provide that supplement but i
• 111:30 - 112:00 think uh the federal government should you know require that all businesses across the entire country at least give people the baseline amount to be able to live and then the government can take over for the people who fall above that thank you all right uh next we'll go to uh sam stardust the nine tails yeah i wanted to go back a little bit on are you saying he joe biden is abandoning his uh campaign promises again with what pisco said um like we
• 112:00 - 112:30 have these uh ideas that why they could vote no on this bill right either maybe they disagree with the price point or maybe that it shouldn't be with the covet bill or maybe that the parliamentarian we shouldn't be overruling the parliamentarian you know these things are are there these doesn't mean this doesn't mean that like joe biden has given up on the 15 minimum wage or minimum or minimum wage hikes up at all and i think that that's like a ridiculous assumption to make uh that if he doesn't fight for his priorities he doesn't fight for his priorities well
• 112:30 - 113:00 how am i why why would i assume um that what can he do what can he do you can overreact that's that's what the possible the vice president as i understand yes i get that um but i'm saying that like um uh as i understand the vice president um themselves can overrule the parliamentarian um if i'm incorrect in that assumption uh someone can correct me on that one but he would still need mansion and cinema
• 113:00 - 113:30 so it doesn't matter yeah it's almost kind of doesn't matter what the commentarian says okay well yeah but they yeah but the parliamentary was brought in so i'm saying that the parliamentary can be overruled and again if this is a priority of yours right why did you give a [ __ ] with uh parliamentarian says exactly what you said who the [ __ ] cares no one gives a [ __ ] about process no one gives a damn about that right like there is no constituency for [ __ ] process for like the arcane rules of the sin like oh the senate rules were all like the sample problem isn't the process the problem is after you do all
• 113:30 - 114:00 this weird [ __ ] to do the parliamentary over you're getting all the world you're not gonna have support for the bill so you're gonna go through all this but no no no no no no no it was brought up someone brought it up so i saw me address i brought it up because because i i not with the specific procedural issue but the notion of a candidate who's there to be a bulwark against radical liberalism and trumpism that and that's the image that i think that manchin has been trying to cultivate and it's been successful for him in the past elections multiple things that you're throwing at me here so one uh just a second pulmonary thing uh mansion is a separate issue that we've been dressing this
• 114:00 - 114:30 entire time but okay that he would use that issue sam let's let sam finish this point please stand finishing point yeah so i mean like again i mean optically getting this coveted bill passed is like a big deal so if we keep delaying it and delaying it that's going to be look even worse on on biden in any way like again delaying this 2 trillion coveted bill is the worst thing that biden can do okay so doing anything to get this passed is the most important thing adding this 15 minimum wage for another like a little bit more optics
• 114:30 - 115:00 isn't great because you're going to lose you're going to lose so many more optic points or whatever you want to call them on on delaying this code bill then getting the 15 minimum wage attached to it and anyway he can't do it because he doesn't have the that's also true okay all right so but then this is my problem with the progressives as well right because the progressives aren't fighting for this right um on the other side that's right yes well why don't you you don't have the votes for the bill uh if you don't have this included that's another option that's another option you're like hey um uh the reason why everyone listens to what the [ __ ] joe manchin has to say right the reason why people might you could
• 115:00 - 115:30 rightfully call him the [ __ ] president at this point because apparently he decides what's happening right um it's because he make he's a squeaky wheel he says that if you don't do as i say i will withdraw my support wrong wrong you're wrong this is not why he's so powerful the reason why he's a powers because you don't have the votes to do no that's what i'm saying that's what i'm [ __ ] saying no but nobody has nothing to do with him i'm agreeing with what you're saying i'm agreeing with what you're saying let me finish what i'm [ __ ] saying you'll know that right so by by saying by refusing to vote by
• 115:30 - 116:00 holding his vote yes you don't have enough uh uh votes for the bill right so on the other side people who do care about the bill right uh do care about attaching this amendment right they could also uh uh withhold their votes like oh we're not gonna if uh uh this is not gonna be a part of it then uh we won't um uh uh give our our vote so like let's say let uh let's ignore this uh the covenant team though right let's say like okay you guys i disagree with attaching it here okay let's attach it to um uh the defense
• 116:00 - 116:30 appropriations bill right this literally the exact same [ __ ] uh uh math is going to happen there right you're saying that this uh has happened right now okay i agree with you sure but during the defense approach appropriation build what changes absolutely nothing [ __ ] changes right so the progressives in the house bernie sanders um elizabeth warren i guess um and whoever else right could also say no we're not going to vote for this like we've waited long enough you've said you're buying that this is your priority of yours a [ __ ] choice is a priority so we won't vote for it unless this uh amendment is attached
• 116:30 - 117:00 like that's another way to apply pressure because then you have to negotiate with them as well right yeah no but i just i want to be this is a function of our democracy and the fact that they know but they don't like it but i i just want to be quick as a policy matter i'd sooner get rid of the filibuster i think i agree absurd and i want to get rid of it and but again you know that choice doesn't present itself because we're we are presented with a world in which we have some conservative democrats uh in the senate and because they were elected and
• 117:00 - 117:30 because we live in a democracy and because they're the clincher votes they're it's the same thing reason anthony kennedy and all these supreme court opinions why they accept your votes what makes the future they're the most in the middle and the same thing in the supreme court what does that mean though but why do you have to only um uh um uh why do you have to only appease the the quote it's natural the right flank the right flank right why do they have to why is that the natural thing why is it natural why do you have to appease the right side when you're pushing for the most extreme left policy that
• 117:30 - 118:00 what do you mean of course you're always going to i mean in general i mean in general not just for this like why is it because that's the nature so that's the nature of american democracy is they have these natural tendencies that push towards the middle and then you're feeling that a lot right now i understand that so i made that argument the other day actually right right so so there are a lot of things that moderate um the senate as specific especially as a body right the house is very reactive the senate is much less reactive uh the nature of the senate because it's uh the whole state um they have to get consensus there
• 118:00 - 118:30 um and so there's a lot of things that and that moderate the president right because the president needs to look like he's doing things so you're feeling the pressure of those wars that pressure pushes to the middle doesn't push out no no no no but that's because those individual senators aren't uh uh pulling the boats as well so like if they uh had a similar strategy right because at one point the right flank of the republican party was doing literally the exact same thing withholding their vote right and pushing their party to be more extreme right we saw this right we saw this at the deep party we saw this with the um the house
• 118:30 - 119:00 freedom caucus right and they were stopped but i'm saying i'm saying that for uh people um you're the absolute difference yes true but i'm saying that um you're right flank right the the the extremes that he's talking about that are off the moderator they also have the ability to withhold their votes right just like any other senator so i'm this this is me um um but they [ __ ] over the party and they make the party look really bad and it wasn't no and they don't mention doing what is jobs
• 119:00 - 119:30 the filibuster right the philippines can't get uh a leave i can't we can't get rid of that because of joe manchin right how was this this is the russian i'm going to explain to you so sanders is fine he's not in trouble at all like a lot of these people the same thing in the in the house right aoc is there's no danger to her seat from a primary um really at all and so there's if you know bernie sanders has not gotten a lot of legislation through over the time
• 119:30 - 120:00 other actors in this government of ours face the the the penalty of not doing stuff and these are candid seats which are more at risk yeah and so when you when you stamp your feet right and you don't let legislation be passed because it's it's it's not liberal enough it's not left listen i agree with you on all the policy i'm sure not maybe not all of them i mean not the co-op [ __ ] but uh on a lot
• 120:00 - 120:30 of it i'm sure um but think about this i mean if they don't do anything the democrats look incompetent and now all these seats that they might have won otherwise they're not gonna win so they get a lot of pressure not saying they don't do anything i'm saying it's okay so i uh my problem is i'm not letting there are two people who i really want to finish arguing with you too i love arguing a bit too um i don't care that destiny um uh has a straw man machine in his back room right uh going overtime any time he walks into my channel apparently but i thank you both for being here but
• 120:30 - 121:00 i got that done you can call us if you want the actual mature thing that you would do the actual thing that would be happening if you wanted to have a real big boy conversation about this then what you would actually say is what do we need to do to win the seats necessary to pass this piece of legislation rather than okay well what if we overrule the parliamentary and then what if we try to bully the the razor thing which droid we have maybe we can go to these states and we can do all this [ __ ] [ __ ] to to get this bill attached as a [ __ ] writer to the consul the consolidation but we're looking like instead of all of this crazy [ __ ] we're like well what do
• 121:00 - 121:30 we need to do to get like 54 cents so that would be that's so you're moving so you're moving you so you're moving the goal post once again and i got it conversation is what joe biden can do right now joe body can't not necessarily get other people elected i was talking about what joe biden can do so stop moving the goal post that's like
• 121:30 - 122:00 it doesn't [ __ ] matter because you have to get the dangerous game right now dangerous game shut up everybody everyone shut up everyone shut up because we gotta let these ladies and they've been waiting so long holy [ __ ] stardust go ahead okay um so uh let's say we do this thing where you're saying people should withhold their votes so uh we get the the 15 thing or something on the
• 122:00 - 122:30 floor again or something like that is that what you were saying no that's that's something that he would then as a he's saying that the left flank should use the leverage that that the right flank is used okay so so what happened with what happened with like m for a like a medicare for all what happened when we tried to do that nothing there was no support for that so nothing exactly right so and what and wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait what happens explain what you're talking about explain what you're talking about i'm asking you to explain what you're talking about
• 122:30 - 123:00 exactly right please okay all right um so the justice stems tried to withhold the vote uh for to confirm i think pelosi to get um or there there was a plan to or something no no that wasn't their plan that wasn't their plan that's not yeah that wasn't twitter twitter people okay all right all right okay fine whatever if m4a had gone on the floor right like you think what would have happened that would have been a bad plan
• 123:00 - 123:30 i'm not advocating for that yeah i'm having a great day it's not the same [ __ ] thing okay wait wait wait wait wait wait guys please please i'm trying to get i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry so the the reason why i'm bringing like this this up is because um we're talking about this 15 minimum wage right and you're saying
• 123:30 - 124:00 that we need to use our leverage to kind of like force them to do that i don't see how we would do that like what how would we do that okay and then let's say finish your point please finish your point please uh well how how how would you um literally that's what we've been discussing the entire time though it's literally what happened i understand it's just gotten so muddy right now but like it's i've said it like 10 times already like i just well i'm not quite sure either i
• 124:00 - 124:30 mean because that's fine but like i've already said it ten times that's fine i'm just yeah i'm i'm sorry if i'm i'm not understated so if like again uh i don't know how the the medicare for all would have
• 124:30 - 125:00 would have failed right uh and and we've seen the fifteen dollars that's a different minimum wage it's a different plan right and i understand it's a different plan right but using whatever you know power we have to leverage i that's not the same i don't like do you see the parallel no i see the pearl are trying to draw i'm saying it's not actually parallel i'm saying that that situation in the house right was a very bad plan right like that was [ __ ] jimmy dore whatever the [ __ ] came up with that right [ __ ] comedian
• 125:00 - 125:30 ain't no [ __ ] right yeah no i agree that's a bad plan i didn't i never advocated for that people have asked me about that i've never advocated for that um uh because that wasn't the right moment there are specific political pressure points right um specific times where you have uh maximum pressure i don't think that time with nancy pelosi uh was the right time um to do the uh medicaid for all and especially since i think it would have died in the senate any which way right so like that at a point in time it hasn't we already had this 15 hours minimum wage that's passed within the senate right that's it's attached to
• 125:30 - 126:00 the uh covert bill uh from sorry it's not the sense give me a house in the house i apologize uh within the house it's already attached there right so that's uh mission accomplished um and the senate right um uh we aren't gonna have it attached um because of uh these uh senators and everything else we've been talking about right um i think um uh in this moment at this time with this bill right um or like let's say in the future right the defense appropriations bill right a different build
• 126:00 - 126:30 um um that that is must pass i think that would be actually more appropriate that's the difference here um okay i i kind of agree um maybe at a different at a later date it could be something that people bring up again but for the the covid i i just don't i i feel like that we are sacrificing political efficacy basically okay great that's fine all right uh but i hear you i'm gonna make sure did you finish i don't want to make i
• 126:30 - 127:00 want to talk with you yeah i'm finished yeah great sorry and i'm sorry for making you wait so long i'm arguing with my man pisco here and my uh straw man uh destiny over here um but uh let's go with um uh uh nine tails okay um yeah first of all um for those who aren't aware she her pronouns um uh so yeah small nitpick um more i guess like a psa for people who kind of are like trying to use the natural ways to prove anything
• 127:00 - 127:30 um and then excuse me and then i'm just gonna get straight into it uh so yeah um the problem with the natural wage in real natural age and real wage theory um is that it's all based on malthusian population theory and the problem is is that at best it hardly covers a certain aspect of like socio-economics so you know um if you want your analysis to be limited then it's fine to use it
• 127:30 - 128:00 i guess um so as far as like getting this stuff passed uh as far as like what prime's getting at i totally think that you can make a bill that will be more appealing to republicans and like i guess i'd be a bit swayed on this but i don't think that there's if you could if sorry i'd be a bit sweet if you could show me data but i don't think that there's a lot of politicians who are like have their entire career invested in not raising the wage of their constituents so i think a lot of them could be put on the fence once you point out
• 128:00 - 128:30 like in a pop in a popular way that this is something that like their constituents could like and that you know that this isn't just like a net negative and so i think a huge part of this is not fighting something simply because it's not perfect like like the whole thing is like we're not gonna pass it so long as we have people like destiny saying well it's not perfect it's not to my standards so i don't think we should do it at all like a lot of things have gotten past despite like all odds because and that's how progressivism works
• 128:30 - 129:00 it like what you're effectively doing is arguing that we shouldn't be progressive because it's not ideal it's never been ideal to be progressive and that's why i think like everything from uh niche twitch uh politics streamers talking about this to people getting on the ground and doing uh fight for 15 rallies will make a difference in both like changing the public perception but also like rallying together politicians to do more for this okay um uh let's lord and he's been waiting uh quite patiently
• 129:00 - 129:30 um and uh we'll go to uh uh ajola um and we might um and dr vayne do you have something you want to add as well um okay so uh we'll go to uh uh lord and then uh jola and i'll decide we'll do it from there okay so yeah i'm just curious like what do we think would happen if someone like sanders was to like withhold his vote what if he was to be like nope this isn't this isn't where i want it to be like i am just saying it right now
• 129:30 - 130:00 i'm not going to vote yes on this bill unless it includes these things like 15 minimum wage like make it the defense appropriations bill because everyone's disagreeing with the overnight team bill fine let's give them that uh making a defensive approach yeah i know but like another must-pass bill he's helping republicans if he does that anyone who does that anyone who doesn't say like she doesn't recognize the same thing as it mentions doing the same thing imagine so if manchin says no let's say uh it's attached right let's say um i mean let's say if
• 130:00 - 130:30 um the amendment did get through right but then it still needed his vote in the end to uh pass any which way what man should not be helping republicans if he said well because we have this included within whatever bill this is right um uh i won't be uh voting for her would he not be helping the republicans well he's no he's helping himself the at risk he's helping himself who's more like who's more likely to lose their seat who's more likely to see bernie sanders or mansion but i mean neither but no no mansion's at risk
• 130:30 - 131:00 yeah sorry mansion is probably more likely to lose a seat um for the supreme court justice i mean gorsuch and the others right but it was because he's he's doing account he's not stupid right he's i i don't know how to get it through your people's heads like these senators i thought he's stupid he said he's corrupt i don't really care if bernie helps the republicans because that's all the democrats do this isn't a break from the norm so it's not an argument not to do it
• 131:00 - 131:30 well this is totally different think about the world we live in now versus the world we live in if the georgia races had gone to republicans this is a different world we're living in that we need to recognize first of all with the fact that we're even having these conversations and we have a one point nine trillion dollars right no i agree right so 14 uh so now we're getting 1400 checks maybe right for a smaller pool of people right so uh two thousand dollars was promised right in georgia right isn't that right buddy uh that's compromise that's the story of our of our democracy but no i'm just saying um the priority
• 131:30 - 132:00 right and immediately a little look i remember watching this happen beat by beat right immediately he uh job i didn't fight for he didn't put any struggle he was like oh what is that is that too much oh okay we're not even gonna put up up for a vote already we're dropping up to fourteen hundred dollars right there's also something right there's problems the problem is just a all just comes down fundamental understanding how the government works that's literally awesome you guys think no you think that biden
• 132:00 - 132:30 could just come out with a sword and shield and start [ __ ] heads off okay in congress they can't do that we don't have the power that's not the same i didn't say that but i'm surprised i never said that you keep saying that i'm saying that i'm i'm not even saying that he's going to succeed i'm not even saying he's going to succeed original [ __ ] questions everyone shut up let me finish my point
• 132:30 - 133:00 then you can argue about whatever the [ __ ] let me finish my point thank you so much great um so i'm not even saying the original argument like what uh can a button be doing i've been trying to answer that question right what could biden be doing right um now what button can't do what he can't do is make some unilateral decision uh on on and clean the 15 minimum wage right that's not what i think it looks like uh for him to show that it's a priority i've never said that you keep uh implying that i'm saying that but i've never said that again
• 133:00 - 133:30 i understand no more yeah thank you um i i've never uh uh said that right i'm saying that he can use um uh the tools available within this uh uh uh of the executive branch right including the bully poll but yes right um to uh try to move things on i'm just saying i want to see him um uh try to honor his uh campaign response campaign promises there are affiliate campaign promises that you can actually fight for and you can completely lose on right but i'm looking for the fight that's literally all my whole point has been
• 133:30 - 134:00 right but you keep the destiny you keep you keep straw managing me saying that i don't understand how the government works no i understand how the government works i'm working very much within uh those uh the laws the separation of powers i get that i get all of that right so stop you can stop strolling anymore all right then our goal is we are fighting me on some different terrain that i'm not fighting you on you're fighting there's only so many there's only so many hours in the day binding should fight the fights that he can win rather than wasting all this time trying to threaten other senators and do all this doesn't do anything
• 134:00 - 134:30 like it's like go work on do all the positive efficiencies like work on that level like it's also another understanding it's not just political another one is is a negotiation do you think that they just threw out this minimum way when you go into negotiations do you put in your bottom line first who does that when you go to or no do you do that do you immediately back off no no i have a question you put forth an option right that it's something that you're not going to get right everyone understands this is what
• 134:30 - 135:00 he did is that we did the two thousand dollars uh uh you're telling me i mean so you're applying it no you're applying that he did i'm asking you you're making that claim is that so that's what he did joe biden is simultaneously negotiating with a lot of different actors right he's trying to get republicans on board that's what he tried to do when he met with them didn't he didn't they didn't go for it and they didn't want it and he took a stand there right now he is sacrificing something why did he reduce the checks so uh what do you mean where's what biden promised two thousand dollars before six hundred dollar check have been signed
• 135:00 - 135:30 and then after as well did he do it after because i know he did a little bit where he is sick yeah he did okay the answer is just biden just hates poor people and everything this is a negotiation man once again go ahead no what are you implying wait why doesn't biden fight for 15 hour minimum wage tell me i want to know for the people for the people here they think that brian is choosing another fighter first from pisco who's because he he owns a bunch of slaves in his basement i'm saying i'm saying i'm saying that's all i'm
• 135:30 - 136:00 saying literally all that thing i didn't even attach um any um uh intentions to him right i'm saying that i'm not seeing him fight for his campaign promises and all of you every single one of you and you're gonna try to keep shaking me from this point but i'm not gonna shake right so destiny you might be good at doing this with other people it's not gonna [ __ ] work for me right so when we have our fight on um the corruption on of money and politics don't worry you can try this it's not gonna work right i'm not shaking from my
• 136:00 - 136:30 original point so you can try to move the battlefield right to somewhere else or it's a more fertile trend from you but i'm not gonna go there uh once again uh what i was asked you asked me what more can biden be doing i'm telling you what uh body can be doing now you can disagree with that you disagree with that but i'm telling you that right so yeah you can try to get me to fight on some other train it's not going to happen oh you're not going to shake it it's not going to happen who is he compromising with on from the 2000 down to 1400 who pushed him there so one is the realities of him
• 136:30 - 137:00 because of coming into office and realizing that the six hundred dollars had been passed and he there's a budgetary concern so what i'm trying to say is it is a negotiation process he put out the two thousand dollars for this with the with american people with republicans with the conservative members of his caucus all of them are like actually i don't know what to say like like it is not public opinion polls that he has to leverage he has to leverage
• 137:00 - 137:30 his constitu his um sorry his caucus other members of his party who are not gonna fly for certain things he was also trying to get republicans on two thousand dollar checks republicans they didn't so mansion talked him down to 1400. no also i don't know i wasn't there i wasn't in the room where it happened but there's a reason for everything right how come why would he do it what's your explanation what's your explanation why else
• 137:30 - 138:00 why did he reduce him i mean you're by the way you're framing it on the mega man to that why why i want to hear it because this is where the lefties are so much more fun why why is biden not fighting for the minimum wage please i want to hear from or the reduction in checks yeah for well either one why why are the democrats explaining that there's a claim that over and over again that they're well they're not fighting for it well oh they're not fighting for it oh i don't know why so tell us why tell us why they're not fighting for it um they're bad at politics why'd they reduce it to 2000 of the 1400 1400 1400 uh why uh
• 138:00 - 138:30 sorry i'm not nothing why did they why why wait let me let me say something okay um and i don't know if this is it but there is a theory that like uh especially liberal democrats like the more conservative-leaning democrats don't are aren't largely in favor of like giving money to people because they think it they agree with sort of the republican conservative idea that like it'll make them lazy and dependent on the government so that's blue democrats you're talking about and so it's possible
• 138:30 - 139:00 wait it's possible that biden made a political calculation prior to the election and said hey look it would be great if we had these two seats in georgia we could have some great messaging and say two thousand dollar checks will go out the door as soon as i'm elected and then that you know spurred more people to more democrats to go to the polls in georgia right uh helping him win the state and once he gets in he enacts his actual agenda which is uh less than that i can get
• 139:00 - 139:30 away with it who cares but but what is he getting in in support of i mean if he would why wouldn't he give two thousand um i'm not really sure he's getting something from it right he's getting something which is support from someone right it may just be in line with his ideals i don't know so i think that we should just so i think that we should have just waited until 20 until after 2022 to uh to to get uh the 15 minimum wage i think the problem with pushing it now is the problem that we're
• 139:30 - 140:00 currently running into is not being able to pass it i think if we if we want to try to get a minimum wage increase right now we need to settle for eleven dollars it was great optics why don't we pass it i said if you have the political willpower we can't we literally
• 140:00 - 140:30 the rest of what i was going to say is that until 2022 what we need to focus on is more popular measures that we can reasonably get past so that we can get as many democrats elected in 2022 so that we then have a an actual majority in the senate unless those that i don't think too and then we can't play any pressure on them either great um but yeah like and the possibility of also losing uh there right like you know
• 140:30 - 141:00 actually who knows what happens after that but you know if the republicans would take the sentence like oh okay i guess we'll wait another uh uh two years um before you even even uh trying okay um so um to my honest members uh if you uh have been enjoying this content this amazing content with us uh uh yelling at each other has been really really fun um do me a favor hit that follow button hit that notification bell um to know when i'm going live i do this all the time um six days a week uh we had this conversation so this is a weekly at people um and invading my my chat uh
• 141:00 - 141:30 um uh to have a discussion these are all members of my audience uh who i decided to join right um it's an open walk on panel we invite all of you uh to be involved right if you like that you like the randomness of a panel like this um and the the absolute [ __ ] insane this is still tame uh we've had much wider open panels ain't that right pisco ain't that right peace go no that's correct that's correct we've had much longer we found out we can [ __ ] our fans right and we find out we can [ __ ] our fans
• 141:30 - 142:00 that's the thing that happened here um so yes if if that interests you if that interests you like the wildness of my open panels right i'm also my clothes pants like for instance tomorrow we're gonna have a prime time royale um uh which uh if you remember the austin show and remember watch royale um it's uh similar to that but it's more political it's a lot more fun in my opinion i mean like i'm unbiased in that um but uh i come check that out right we're giving you all kinds of programming here we give you close panels open panels we give you game shows um and we give
• 142:00 - 142:30 you a lot of content right so don't miss out don't miss out right now hit that follow button hit that notification bell if you want uh to make sure that you uh never miss any more of this of course we have a youtube channel expansion point youtube um uh in chat um let you know how to find it um that's our youtube channel that's we're gonna be posting clips i will be posting this clip here um and so if you uh if you ever miss out um uh hit uh uh sub to our youtube channel so you can um uh uh follow along with this but it's not as exciting
• 142:30 - 143:00 as being live so be here as well okay um i really appreciate uh the strong support from all of you guys uh this has been extremely interesting um uh steven uh uh one thank you so much for being so kind as to raid my channel before that's really kind of you thank you so much um and secondly um thanks for jumping into the chat really appreciate you uh being here um this was really fun even though you [ __ ] oh my god oh yeah i could beat me this is really fun um
• 143:00 - 143:30 and i'm still looking forward to our one-on-one debate on corruption and politics i haven't forgotten about that i just haven't had the chance to study but i will uh be challenging you on that you still have for it yeah of course okay thank you so much dude i really do appreciate you you're being so kind i want to um shout out to my uh good friend pisco right here um peacekeeper95 uh he dm me saying that he was gonna come in and help me out listen uh i i agree with you on the minimum wage and i and i was ready to have a discussion with destiny about i i think the 50 dollar minimum wage is
• 143:30 - 144:00 a good idea i just didn't know there was all this like kind of pseudo-conspiratorial talk about biden and joe manchin yep which i i don't i don't mind um okay all right all right never mind never mind oh my god i'll become a real quick because i i had to go back and look this up because this is so complicated the idea that binding broke some promise on two thousand dollar checks is just not true the idea was that instead of six hundred dollars we were supposed to get two thousand dollars they were going to change the payments uh alexandria
• 144:00 - 144:30 aoc literally proposed she literally proposed an amendment to change the six hundred dollar payment to two thousand dollars that's literally with rasheeda to leave that was literally what aoc proposed that was that was what biden was backing yes they were going to change what was already being dispersed they were going to change that from 600 to 2000 that's what was being promised not an additional 2000 that was never on this whole thing i think most people understood it to be two thousand dollars so
• 144:30 - 145:00 like the most voting people whether they're wrong or not whatever they might have but like even i don't think the voters are stupid and that they're wrong don't literally say two thousand dollars ioc was talking about the other bill that passed in december was talking about the 600 bill the amendment that she proposed when she said i already co-wrote the code amendment for 2000 checks so let's go let's get it ready to go the amendment that she proposed was to strike the 600 and turn it into 2000. that's what she was talking about on the
• 145:00 - 145:30 previous bill and then they're passing another coveted relief bill that they said they would give so why do you assume that that carries forward an additional 2000. now i understand optically it looks bad but uh aoc was right along there with him okay i mean like yeah that's not true okay absolutely it's true that's the amendment yeah all right wow amazing um this is amazing stuff uh eagle eye valor is my um uh um uh editor uh he's been so kind to help us out that youtube channel guys this has been really fun um and again i thank you once again steven for being so kind as to join us it's really
• 145:30 - 146:00 uh um uh kind of you and i can't wait to have our real fight i know exactly what's gonna happen when i do you've got more shaman in the back i know i know bring them out don't worry i'll knock them all down um but dude i seriously appreciate it all right remember to hit that like and subscribe and don't forget the notification bell so that my videos show up right in your feed this is when you've made me upset when i'm sad because you guys are saying dumb [ __ ] oh this is when you post some good ass not safe for work in chat oh hello boobs