What the Sermon on the Mount Is (and Why It’s So Popular)

Summary

The BibleProject Podcast episode explores the Sermon on the Mount, a pivotal collection of Jesus's teachings found in the Gospel of Matthew. Despite being only 100 verses, it has profoundly influenced both Christians and non-Christians over centuries. Through interviews, stories of historical figures like Martin Luther King Jr., and insights from cultural analysis, the hosts aim to delve deeply into these teachings over the year, encouraging listeners to consider their relevance today.

Highlights

• The Sermon on the Mount is a concise compilation of Jesus's teachings from the Gospel of Matthew, often seen as a cornerstone of Christian ethics and values.
• The podcast plans to explore this significant teaching slowly through 2024, inviting scholars and artists to provide various perspectives.
• Historical figures such as Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi were notably inspired by the Sermon on the Mount, emphasizing its universal impact.
• The series will incorporate multiple voices, including scholars, artists, and writers, to expand the understanding of these teachings.
• The podcast also analyzes how these teachings have influenced modern culture, including music, with references to Bono and Bob Marley.
• Interview with Dallas Jenkins reveals insights into how the Sermon on the Mount is portrayed in "The Chosen" series.
• Discussion on whether it’s truly possible to live by the standards set in the Sermon on the Mount, historically viewed as both achievable and as an unattainable ideal.
• The podcast encourages deep reflection on the Sermon on the Mount's teachings as a transformational journey for individuals.
• The Sermon on the Mount challenges listeners to reflect on ethics, human flourishing, and the nature of God's kingdom.
• The podcast episode encourages an immersive, year-long exploration of these profound teachings to see their potential real-world impact.

Key Takeaways

• The Sermon on the Mount, found in the Gospel of Matthew, holds significant sway in Christian teaching and beyond. 📖
• The podcast aims to thoroughly examine these teachings over a year, encouraging listeners to explore their deeper meanings and contemporary relevance. 🔍
• Prominent figures like MLK and Gandhi drew inspiration from the Sermon for their non-violent movements, highlighting its global and historical impact. 🌍
• The series will include diverse perspectives from scholars and cultural figures to paint a fuller picture of the Sermon’s influence. 🎨
• Reflecting on whether living by the Sermon on the Mount's ideals is feasible, the discussion spans historical and modern contexts. 🤔

Overview

The BibleProject Podcast is diving deeply into the Sermon on the Mount, a fundamental element of Christian doctrine. This series of episodes will spread over the year, where hosts John Collins and others will dissect what these teachings mean for individuals today. Through the lenses of historical impact and cultural influence, the podcast aims to bring fresh insights into this age-old sermon.

By inviting scholars, historical analysts, and even modern artists into the conversation, the podcast does more than a surface-level examination. It seeks to uncover the vast influence that the Sermon on the Mount has had through history and in various cultural movements, such as those led by Martin Luther King Jr. and Gandhi. Guests will share diverse insights, making this a comprehensive study with new viewpoints constantly introduced.

Listening to the Sermon on the Mount within this podcast encourages an introspective look at one's values and ethics. It questions whether these ancient teachings are merely historical ideals or if they can shape human behavior today. By committing a year to slowly exploring its meanings, listeners are invited to discover the potential these teachings have in inspiring change and fostering community in contemporary life.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction and Overview This introductory chapter explains that regardless of one's familiarity with religion or church, many are likely familiar with some of Jesus's teachings. These include sayings like 'don't judge L you be judged', 'don't build your house on the sand', and 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. These teachings are part of the Sermon on the Mount, a significant collection of Jesus's teachings in the Gospel of Matthew, consisting of just 100 verses yet exerting profound influence.
• 00:30 - 01:30: Unveiling of the New Series The new series on the Bible Project Podcast is introduced, focusing on 'The Sermon on the Mount' and its enduring impact on both Christians and non-Christians. Hosts John and Tim excitedly announce the commencement of this series, which they have been planning for some time.
• 01:30 - 03:00: Historical Context and Importance This chapter discusses the historical context and significance of the Sermon on the Mount. It highlights how this key section of Jesus's teachings, found in the Gospel of Matthew, has historically been the first major set of teachings encountered by those exploring the New Testament. The chapter sets the stage for a detailed exploration of this fundamental sermon, emphasizing its pivotal role in the history of the Jesus movement.
• 03:00 - 04:00: Diverse Contributors and Guest Experts The chapter titled 'Diverse Contributors and Guest Experts' explores the profound influence of Jesus' teachings as expressed in three specific chapters, which have greatly shaped the Christian ethic and value system over 2,000 years. It emphasizes that these teachings are central to understanding Jesus' vision of reality and how his followers are expected to live and interact with others.
• 04:00 - 06:00: Introduction of Podcast Guests The chapter "Introduction of Podcast Guests" outlines the hosts' plans to expand the range of guests in their podcast. They are introducing more scholar interviews and artist segments, and will invite friends to join. The aim is to maintain their usual format while incorporating new, exciting elements. The approach is grounded in their belief in key pillars of scripture engagement.
• 06:00 - 09:00: Michelle Jones on Costly Interruptions The chapter titled 'Michelle Jones on Costly Interruptions' discusses the communal nature of literature, specifically focusing on the historical and community-driven aspects of the Bible as interpreted by the people of Israel. It emphasizes the importance of engaging with scripture in a community setting, highlighting the collective wisdom that emerges from multiple minds and hearts engaging with the text. This approach is reflected in the 'sermon on the mountain' series, which aims to enrich understanding by integrating more perspectives beyond individual interpretations.
• 09:00 - 12:00: Impact on Historical Figures The chapter discusses the importance of expanding perspectives to understand the Sermon on the Mount better. It emphasizes the value of involving multiple voices and different people to explore its depths fully. The metaphor of 'mining the mind' is used to illustrate the exploration process.
• 12:00 - 18:00: Sermon on the Mount in Popular Culture The chapter titled "Sermon on the Mount in Popular Culture" begins by discussing the wide-reaching impact of The Sermon on the Mount throughout human history on a global scale. The conversation is hosted by Tim and includes Michelle Jones, a pastor at AO Day Community Church, where they and the Bible Project share facilities. The chapter sets the stage for exploring the significance and influence of The Sermon on the Mount in various cultures.
• 18:00 - 25:00: Stephanie Tam on Global Impact In this chapter, the speaker humorously discusses their role as the voice of 'Lady Wisdom' in videos and jokes about their family's reluctance to adopt this title for them. They express their enjoyment of participating in classes taught by Tim, particularly those relating to the Hebrew Bible, indicating an interest in scholarly or religious themes.
• 25:00 - 30:30: Introduction to the Sermon on the Mount The chapter introduces the theme of the Sermon on the Mount, describing it as a significant and transformative experience. The discussion hints at an ongoing study of the Sermon throughout the year, highlighting the excitement and commitment of those involved. The Speaker describes the Sermon on the Mount as a 'costly interruption', suggesting that it's impactful and demanding.
• 30:30 - 43:00: Dallas Jenkins of The Chosen The chapter begins with a discussion on the influence of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., particularly highlighting his nonviolent movement, which was inspired by the teachings of The Sermon on the Mount. A key point made is about the challenges of handling life's disruptions—be it personal plans going awry, failed marriages, or creative works left unfinished due to unforeseen interruptions.
• 43:00 - 55:00: Challenges and Questions about Sermon The chapter discusses the impactful message of The Sermon on the Mount, which is considered a profound and costly interruption. It highlights the timing of its message, calling people to live in a radically different way. The chapter reflects on the words of a sermon that were never delivered because they were found in the notes of a briefcase of an individual who was assassinated. This underscores the theme of transformation and change that the sermon was meant to bring about.
• 55:00 - 57:30: Conclusion and Looking Forward The chapter concludes with a reflection on the profound impact of reading historical letters, particularly those written by influential figures while they were imprisoned. It highlights the emotional and philosophical weight these letters carry, especially when they address themes such as forgiveness and love for enemies, as exemplified by reflections on 'The Sermon on the Mount' from a jail setting. These writings serve as revolutionary teachings due to the authenticity and immediacy of the author's lived experience during their composition.

What the Sermon on the Mount Is (and Why It’s So Popular) Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] whether you grew up with religion or you've never entered through a church door you've likely heard sayings like don't judge L you be judged don't build your house on the sand do unto others what you would have them do unto you these sayings are all teachings of Jesus and they can all be found in one place The Sermon on the Mount Sermon on the Mount is a collection of Jesus's teachings found in the gospel of Matthew it's only 100 verses but it has created
• 00:30 - 01:00 and enduring Legacy that shaped both Christians and non-christians throughout history this year we invite you to join us and slowly considering what Jesus taught us in The Sermon on the Mount I'm John Collins this is Bible project podcast thanks for joining us here we go hey Tim hi John hey do you know what today is I think I do yeah we are beginning a brand new series on the podcast that we've been working on for a while yes yeah it's sort of like uh the
• 01:00 - 01:30 unveiling moment that's how it feels we are going to be talking through the entire Sermon on the Mount in 2024 slowly yeah no stone unturned it's going to be amazing yeah The Sermon on the Mount is the first block of Jesus's teaching in The Gospel according to Matthew so for most of the history of the Jesus movement it's the first main block of teachings that people encounter if they pick up and start reading the New Testament and and both for that
• 01:30 - 02:00 reason and just the sheer Brilliance genius and power of what Jesus says in these three chapters they have been a generative Beating Heart of the ethic and value system of the Christian Movement throughout its history over 2,000 years now there's no better place to go if you want to get the heartbeat of Jesus for how he saw reality and envisioned that his followers would live and treat other people
• 02:00 - 02:30 so and that's putting it lightly yeah we're also going to expand the amount of people get to interact with yes this year yes we're going to have some more scholar interviews and we're going to have these artist segments we're going to invite friends in so this podcast it'll be what we normally do with some cool plused up moments mhm you know one of our kind of key pillars of how we approach scripture we believe the Bible
• 02:30 - 03:00 is communal literature which means it came from a historical Community throughout time the people of Israel but then also we're going to encounter the wisdom of scripture in all of its Brilliance if we encounter it in a community of many minds and hearts and lives so that's part of what we want to reflect with this approach of the sermon on the mountain the series is more Minds than just yours and mine which we are a little community of Bible reading but um
• 03:00 - 03:30 we want to expand it because there's more to see here than any one person or even two can mine and explore so we're excited to have lots of different voices and people join us to explore the Sermon on the Mount the mining of the [Music] mindes so what we want to do actually is get to know a few people you're going to
• 03:30 - 04:00 hear throughout the year while we also begin to explore the greater impact that The Sermon on the Mount has had all over the globe throughout human history okay at the table with us Tim is Michelle Jones hi Michelle hi Michelle we get to hang out in the same building because we share offices Bible project our facility is here at aod day Community Church yep and you are a pastor yes I am here at AO day those listening along will recognize
• 04:00 - 04:30 Michelle's voice in videos you were the voice of Lady wisdom yes which is just the coolest no pressure on that one I I'm trying to get my name changed the lady wisdom but my family is not going for it I love it you also have been in a couple of the classes that Tim has taught for our classroom yes product yes I scratch my nerd itch with classrooms on what is it the Hebrew Bible and andh
• 04:30 - 05:00 it was a poetry one Bible words or and the Art of biblical words yes yeah you asked great questions Michelle I have lots of them yeah so throughout this year as we go through seron on the mount you're going to join us and be a tour guide with us yes and we're so excited to have you at the table with us I'm excited to be at the table with you guys you know The Sermon on the Mount is what I would call a costly interruption in my life
• 05:00 - 05:30 and you know the phrase itself actually comes from Dr Martin Luther King his whole nonviolent movement was born out of his understanding of what it meant to live out of The Sermon on the Mount one of the things that he said was the great problem of Life Is How We handle the costly interruptions the plans that go arai the marriage that fails or the lovely poem that didn't get written because somebody knocked on the door and
• 05:30 - 06:00 while those are his words they're words that he never got to say because the legend is that they were in the notes in the briefcase for a future sermon when he was assassinated and so when you think about The Sermon on the Mount it is to me the consumate costly Interruption because it was coming into the world at a time where people were living one way and then here's this thing that says live this way M I will
• 06:00 - 06:30 never forget reading his letters from Birmingham Jail and you know to be able to write Reflections on The Sermon on the Mount on enemy love and forgiveness in jail in jail there really is no more authoritative kind of source in a moment like that that you would want to listen to yeah like because he doesn't just understand he is living in the moment of pening the letters and those are revolutionary letters if one tends to them yeah when I think about Sermon on
• 06:30 - 07:00 the Mount I also think about a guy like Dietrich bonhof you know the great German Theologian also a pastor who changed the way he did things as he read The Sermon on the Mount and began to understand it in terms of his place in history in fact he came to the United States and he was living here and he was at a at a black Baptist Church in Harlem and really began to dive deep
• 07:00 - 07:30 Into The Sermon on the Mount and one of the things that he said in a letter to a friend of his was I would only achieve true inner Clarity and honesty by really starting to take The Sermon on the Mount seriously here alone he said lies the force that can blow all of this Hocus Pocus of Nazism Skyhigh like fireworks leaving only a few burnt out shells behind and when you think about that and what it meant to him when he wrote the
• 07:30 - 08:00 cost of discipleship and it was the thing that caused him speaking of costly interruptions to go back to Germany where he was martyred and you know his whole thing about how it's not just we show up at church on Sunday and and just kind of pity Patty our way through what it means to be people of God it costs us something thank you Michelle yeah we're really excited to have you as our tour guide I'm so ready for this
• 08:00 - 08:30 also at the table with us is Dan gumml Dan you've been a lead editor producer here at Papa project for the podcast for years yeah it's been great so I kind of went on a big uh Rabbit Trail as Tim would say around just the ways that seron the mount has been influencing like pop culture at large so I wanted to play a quick little round couple rounds of uh you know the old Name That Tune game the old music trivia mhm John yes
• 08:30 - 09:00 okay so just a few seconds of each song so I've got the first one pulled [Music] up I have no idea who that is it sounds like early 80s I can hear the synth but I have no idea John so you know I've never actually heard the song but but you got you got to hear Bono's vocals in that really yeah no that's Bono yeah just doesn't sound like who's gonna ride
• 09:00 - 09:30 what Alum is this is off the Joshua Tree album off of their kind of off their extended edition yeah wow but you that whole that whole album actually is full of biblical imagery absolutely Bono uses biblical imagery through most of his lyrics yeah so that's all based on the opening sayings from the sermon so how there are how many Beatitudes oh there's nine sayings yeah and Bono includes nine Beatitudes and and his lyrics here okay you want you ready for round two Redemption
• 09:30 - 10:00 [Music] Tim there we go I have no idea who that I I feel like I listen to a lot of The Beatles okay growing up not the Beatles uh it obviously sounds to me like the early 60s late 60 1961 to be exact yeah Sean you got a you got an idea well whenever me and my wife are
• 10:00 - 10:30 somewhere tropical mhm all we do is play Bob Marley yeah that's Bob Marley that's Bob Marl really so this is actually the first single he ever recorded oh really okay it's called judge not wow and it's all about not passing judgment on each other he's directly quoting Jesus from the map wow yeah it was just remarkable to think about like his career as you know kind of pioneering Ree and then he like Bono had a lot of references to various biblical ideas and imagery and
• 10:30 - 11:00 he starts out his recording career with a song called judge not wow that's cool thank you Dan also at the table with us is Stephanie Tam hi Stephanie hey guys you are with us all the way from England yes although you're from New York yeah born and raised in New York but I've been living in England for the past five years so this year Stephanie you're going to produce a number of episodes for The Sermon on the Mount podcast and consult for the entire series yeah and it's so exciting to have you here you've
• 11:00 - 11:30 been trained up in public radio working on shows like fre economics and Radio Lab yeah so I'll be bringing more story and scholarship elements to the podcast and I'm super excited partly because just you know as we've been seeing Sermon on the Mount has throughout the ages up to today really inspired listeners imaginations in so many disciplines and I'm kind of an omnivorous nerd so it's exciting to see
• 11:30 - 12:00 that where has your omnivorous appetite LED you what what are some like prominent examples in your mind yeah sure so as an example Cory ten booom who was a Dutch watch maker and also a Christian writer she and her family hid Jewish refugees and joined the Dutch resistance movement against the Nazis and they actually built a secret room behind a false wall in Cory's own bedroom and eventually the
• 12:00 - 12:30 entire family was betrayed um amazingly the gapo never actually found the secret room so the Jewish refugees were able to escape but she and her sister were sent to this concentration camp in Germany called robinbrook and that's where her sister died her father also died but Corey survived and she wrote A Memoir it's called The Hiding Place and there's actually a moment where she's preaching forgiveness in Germany and she looks out into the
• 12:30 - 13:00 audience and she sees one of the guards from robinbrook he's standing right in front of her wearing this Overcoat Brown hat but in that moment all she can see is his blue uniform and his visor cap just as he was back in the camp and all she can feel is the shame of walking past this man naked
• 13:00 - 13:30 with her sister in front of her after her talk he goes up to her and he actually says I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel things that I did but I'd like to hear it from your lips as well wow you know he sticks out his hand and asks frine will you forgive me she's standing there literally having just preached about Jesus's forgiveness and she writes it could not have been many
• 13:30 - 14:00 seconds that he stood there hand held out to me but to me it seemed like hours as I wrestled with the most difficult thing I ever had to do for I had to do it I knew that if you do not forgive men their trespasses Jesus says neither will your father in Heaven forgive your trespasses and still I stood there with the coldness clutching my heart but forgiveness is not an emotion I knew that too forgiveness is an act of
• 14:00 - 14:30 the will and the will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart and so woodenly mechanically I thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me and as I did an incredible thing took place this current started in my shoulder raced down my arm sprang into our joined hands and then this healing warmth seemed to flud my whole being bringing tears to my eyes I
• 14:30 - 15:00 forgive you brother I cried with all my heart for a long moment we grasped each other's hands the former guard and the former prisoner I had never known God's love so intensely as I did then unbelievable you know what's amazing about that story too is to think of the Nazi regime the world affects that that had and yet
• 15:00 - 15:30 somehow the whole International drama gets boiled down into a person to one person moment and uh The Sermon on the Mount is kind of like that it's about everything and everyone and then it's about me and the one person I'm interacting with in the moment it's like it's about all of it at the same time no totally and you know to that point actually it's not only Christians that Sermon on the Mount has impacted it was actually a huge influence on Gandhi yeah
• 15:30 - 16:00 he was Hindu but he actually read Sermon on the Mount twice a day for the last 40 Years of his life um yeah I know how many I mean I don't know many people who do that period I don't know I don't know any Christian in my life that does that wow yeah and it inspired his own non-violent Liberation movements which in turn inspired King in his autobiography he wrote that the first time he read Sermon on the Mount it quote went straight to my heart I saw
• 16:00 - 16:30 that The Sermon on the Mount was the whole of Christianity and it is that sermon which has endeared Jesus to me you know it's remarkable is to step back and think about all these people and stories you know we've dis named these are people embedded in some of the most important cultural movements in modern history you know whether it's World War II with the rise and fall of the Nazi regime The Liberation of India the foundations
• 16:30 - 17:00 of Modern India Bob Marley right the Advent of Reggae Bono Dr Martin Luther King Jr Bon Hofer so this is the stuff of human life on the corporate level for just the last 100 years and they wouldn't be what they were had Jesus not said these words and it's not just that Jesus said these words right it's a actually he was the living embodiment of the values that he
• 17:00 - 17:30 challenged people with which is why he was executed by the Romans you know I mean he he sure didn't get executed for being nice to people uh these words issued a challenge to the powers of his day of an alternate universe of an alternate reality that is still challenging our realities here today and these are just a few examples
• 17:30 - 18:00 I know we could and we will in the course of the series we will Explore More stories to show how impactful The Sermon on the Mount has been so we are so grateful to have this whole crew of additional people and perspectives at the table to explore these all important words of Jesus okay I I'm ready like I want to spend the better part of a year sifting through these teachings letting them shape my imagination and I'm so glad that we're doing this uh Michelle
• 18:00 - 18:30 yes would you cast us off thanks for joining us here we [Music] go okay so we're talking about Sermon on the Mount but we need to start with some Basics what exactly is The Sermon on the Mount I mean here's how I'm picturing it Jesus went up on a mountain one day and
• 18:30 - 19:00 he kind of gave his Greatest Hits to the people who were listening to him and Matthew was like oh that's good I'm going to I'm going to put that in my gospel yeah that's what the S on the mount is that is one way of imagining what the sermon is and how it came into existence but there's a little more context to it both in terms of how the sermon fits into Matthew's presentation of Jesus and
• 19:00 - 19:30 then also how the sermon works together as a whole and then how it fits into the cultural context and historical and political context of Roman occupied first century you know Israel Palestine and that really matters actually for a lot of these sayings not that they can't speak to us but that if we honor that context I think they can speak to us more powerfully okay so help set the picture for
• 19:30 - 20:00 me we're in first century Israel Palestine yeah this is a people group who have lived on this piece of land for centuries and centuries going back thousand years to the time of Moses and Joshua but in Jesus's day it's occupied territory because the Roman Empire like owns you know that whole section around them they took it over
• 20:00 - 20:30 so just imagine you're Jesus and his people you are living on your own ancestral lands but you are now reduced to day labor or just kind of scratching out a lower class living in the land of your ancestors with Roman occupiers everywhere and you're reminded by their presence cuz there's tax booths taxing the fish You Haul up out of the sea for Rome for Rome all of the you know the wheat that is grown in your fields and
• 20:30 - 21:00 so on you have lots of poor and sick people who are just falling through the cracks by the droves so this is the scene into which Jesus says things like if someone forces you to go one mile he's talking about a Roman soldier don't know Roman soldiers could commission anybody to carry their luggage so when he talks about people suing and taking your cloak he's talking about actual exploitation of day
• 21:00 - 21:30 laborers on these you know Jewish Farms that are now owned by Romans you know like this is all Jesus is drawing on actual political social economic realities of people's day when he says love your enemies they have some enemies yeah there was a freedom fighter movement Jewish movement to liberate Israel through violent Revolt the
• 21:30 - 22:00 zealots the Zealot they're known as the zealots but also by uh as the sikari which means dagger the dagger men who lived in the Hills there were lots of people who believed that Israel would be liberated by God if they just were more observant of the laws in the Torah so these are kind of like your biblicists of the first century right your Bible and God people and so known as the Pharisees and the scribes and actually Jesus shares a lot in common with that
• 22:00 - 22:30 crew a lot of values in common but he also differs so a lot of what he says in the sermon about you've heard it said he quotes from the laws of his scripture and I say to you he's in dialogue with those figures okay so that's who Jesus is talking to and this sermon it takes place in what we call Matthew chapters 5 6 and 7 so while Jesus says a lot here it's not that long yeah it's like I think 2,000 words
• 22:30 - 23:00 or something or it's about aund a little over a hundred verses okay but the thing about Matthew Chapter 5 which is the beginning of the sermon it comes after Matthew chapter 4 presumably you read one chapter after another when you read a book granted so here's what's cool is that at the end of Matthew 4 and I think we'll explore all this in more detail later but Matthew chapter 4 concludes with Jesus he gathers a nucleus of his
• 23:00 - 23:30 crew of apprentices and then he goes about north of Jerusalem in a region called Galilee and what Matthew tells us is he went about announcing the good news about the arrival of God's kingdom and healing every kind of disease every kind of sickness among the people news spread and people come from all over people come from Galilee people come from Syria up north people come from
• 23:30 - 24:00 this place called the decapolis which was this network of Greek and Roman cities it was full of Jewish and non-jewish people and from Jerusalem and they flocked to Jesus and he went up onto a Hillside and opened his mouth and said that's sort of like the biblical storyline and Cosmic context so the sermon is actually Matthew unpacking what it is that Jesus said as he went about as a traveling teacher it's like a summary so actually you're it is kind of
• 24:00 - 24:30 like the greatest hits yeah what would Jesus have said on any given day when he walked into a town announcing the good news of God's kingdom what did that sound like so you could equally call this the good news of God's kingdom like that's actually the title Matthew gives it and this actually addresses a question that has occurred to many readers throughout history which is did Matthew have some ancient recording recording device quickly scribing this while he heard Jesus one day kind of short like you can read it aloud in less
• 24:30 - 25:00 than 20 minutes okay and you know I guess maybe he gave concise sermons you know homes yeah but what's more than likely is Jesus was the traveling teacher mhm he had like a whole series of themes yeah like bits he had his riddles his little sayings yes his Parables his his short teachings in worded and piy memorable ways yeah and he likely gave multiple versions of the same talk but in different ways in
• 25:00 - 25:30 different audiences in dozens of villages do you think he worked on these like oh he perfected them how could he not have some of them are so brilliant we're still repeating them today yeah it kind of goes back to one thing we've talked about a lot which is how God's word is designed and I grew up in a tradition where it's like God just beamed it down into the mind of a human and who described it down and so we've got to the point where I'm like okay no humans worked on this yeah with God's spirit yeah it's interesting to Think
• 25:30 - 26:00 Jesus did that too yeah yeah chilling under a a fig tree one afternoon wow just like oh here's how I could say that you know what it reminds me of is comedians yes like they will go out and they'll work on their material until it really lands and then they get their hour together and they can present it and it works and everyone thinks like wow that was brilliant but they worked hard and they saw people's reactions they saw what landed what didn't landed they crafted it even more mhm yeah if your right hand causes your downfall cut
• 26:00 - 26:30 that thing off just throw it away and then he reads the room he's like how did that land yeah he's like well that guy just ran away uh yeah yeah and so while there is comedy and there's cleverness and riddle likee features of jesus' teachings in The Sermon on the Mount what they are about is not just a set of ideas they actually are a way of translating into a vision of human life that matches what
• 26:30 - 27:00 he's actually doing he's living that way he's both living this way but he's kickstarting these communities with generous surprising acts of God's mercy because people's bodies are being healed and poor people are getting invited to sit and begin to have meals and share life and reciprocity with people who have a lot more resources than they do and you have slaves and you have a tax collector and you have a fisherman and you have aarm farmer all sharing a table yeah all sharing a table and then Jesus
• 27:00 - 27:30 is Calling those people to live by a vision of what human life is about and Jesus names this moment as the arrival of God's Kingdom so that the sermon is itself an exposition of beautiful lofty ideals for human life and relationships but also it describes the thing on the ground that Jesus is doing as he goes into these towns so all the great themes you know the make the sermon so powerful of forgiveness of generosity humility
• 27:30 - 28:00 enemy love nonviolent resistance to evil creative reconciliation he's describing how do you live together yeah and so to what end like what was Jesus imagining or hoping would happen if people really sat with these ideas yeah he's also making a contribution to the history of what we would would call ethics mhm so different
• 28:00 - 28:30 cultures throughout history have entertained and explored different visions of what is the good life how do humans know what is the good you know there's modern ethical categories are like utilitarian ethics there's categorical ethics you know connected to Emmanuel k no idea what you're talking about well utilitarian ethics you know do what is good for the greatest number of people okay right that defines what is good right okay yeah people might be familiar with categoric ethics from Emanuel Kant or what he called the categorical imperative and at
• 28:30 - 29:00 least as I understand it he said any rational thinking person could deduce moral reason and that we need to follow that Universal imperative then do that as an end in itself not as a means to some end this is not ethics 101 course but in the ancient world there was actually a tradition going all the way back to Deep roots in Jewish culture but then in Greek culture as well about what
• 29:00 - 29:30 is the right and good way for a human life to develop not just in terms of actions but in terms of character like who you are this is called The Virtue ethics tradition so in that sense he is like a a first century Jewish philosopher filling out a vision of the good life but again it's not abstract it's connected to a place and a time and an event namely that if God's kingdom is arriving on Earth as it is in heaven how
• 29:30 - 30:00 then shall we live I've learned a ton from a new testament scholar Jonathan Pennington on this point while Jesus is certainly being presented by early Christians as more than a philosopher he's not less than one he's written a number of books about The Sermon on the Mount Jesus's teachings as ancient moral philosophy what does that mean it means he is being presented as wisdom itself as modeling and teaching the true wisdom about how
• 30:00 - 30:30 to live well so that you might experience true human flourishing so Jesus's teachings are constantly explaining what the nature of reality is how do you know things what the kingdom is like how to live well all the great philosophical questions so that we can be invited into his way of wisdom that we might experience true human [Music] flourishing so Jesus is not less than a philosopher
• 30:30 - 31:00 but he's also more than a philosopher I mean Jesus thinks he's bringing the kingdom of God and he has this radical vision for how to create a beautiful life yeah and there is a call to respond by the end of the sermon he you know he says that if you listen to my words and do them you're like somebody building your house on a rock if you don't you're going to build your house on the sand and the flood's going to wash you away that's pretty high stakes pretty high stakes yeah so one way to think about the sermon is it's Jesus vision of like
• 31:00 - 31:30 a counterculture a counter reality we're used to living in the world one way and Jesus weaves a picture of an alternate way of living as a human Community it's going to embrace the poor and the tax collectors and Roman soldiers and everybody so it's a call to live in reality H it's a vision of reality but it's not our typical vision yeah that's right yeah but it speaks to something we
• 31:30 - 32:00 know must be true or else it's life really worth living is it really worth living if might makes right if that's actually true that's how humans behave but is it actually How the Universe Works is that actually what is ultimately most beautiful and true about reality what if generosity and kindness make right what if that's actually reality what if a group of people lived as if that were
• 32:00 - 32:30 true and these words of Jesus then become like the compass pointing to the true [Music] north our team at bible project has been working hard to creatively visual ual the ideas and the message of The Sermon
• 32:30 - 33:00 on the Mount with animation in a new 10p part series that's releasing this year and it just so happens there's a fellow creative who has done very similar work to us not with animation but with Cinema you may know the chosen a multi-season show about the life of Jesus while Michelle and I call up the creator of the chosen Dallas Jenkins and talk to him about how The Sermon on the Mount has been Central to the way that he and his team writes and struct ures the
• 33:00 - 33:30 show Dallas thanks for joining us oh thanks so much for having me on I'm a big fan we are to tell us a little bit about The Sermon on the Mount it seems like such a pivotal part of seasons 1 through3 and the whole narrative structure that you're doing yeah to get to The Sermon on the Mount we looked at it and said okay this is one of the most pivotal set of teachings in the history of the world and it's clear that Jesus delivered these things more than once as you know lots of scholars
• 33:30 - 34:00 believe this might have been a collection of multiple sermons of multiple teachings so knowing that we thought we're going to take the teachings of The Sermon on the Mount but we're gonna we're going to put them into this context of the moment where the crowds are coming the word is spreading Jesus is about to really lay The Gauntlet down and go I'm here I'm the Messiah and I've got a new way of looking at things for you and we're going to do that all at once for thousands of people it seemed to match
• 34:00 - 34:30 well the growth of the ministry the final thing I'll say is that we wanted it to be delivered in a way that wasn't just a 30- minute sermon back toback what if the Beatitudes were not just delivered for the masses but they also had a personal intention they were perhaps even the result of Jesus seeing humanity and going Humanity needs to hear this specific thing because they have failed in this specific area and so
• 34:30 - 35:00 in the season finale when Jesus delivers the Beatitudes and he's telling Matthew what they are we see how specifically they have been applied and who they apply to to his friends to the people who' have been following him we have heard from all over the world that people were weeping during that saying I've never thought of the fact that those words weren't just for a crowd of hundreds of people or just weren't for the entire world they were for me specifically or they were for Jesus's
• 35:00 - 35:30 friend specifically doesn't change the words doesn't change the meaning it drives it home even more so what made you decide or how did you decide what to include what not to include and what to give weight to and what not to give weight to yeah that's such a great question and that's the scary part right that's where you go all right we're delivering the sermon but we're not delivering the whole thing it's kind of a montage of of the greatest hits of the sermon we know and we hope that not only people watching have some of them have read this before
• 35:30 - 36:00 and maybe we're going to give them A New Perspective some who've never heard The Sermon on the Mount before we're hopeful that they'll go check it out because it's really good um the book is better than the movie um we started with what are the elements of the sermon that most speak to the people in our story so with Simon Z who's a former Zealot Jesus is talking about revenge right and that's a personal way of not only communicating
• 36:00 - 36:30 what Simon the Zealot is going through and might be thinking but what the viewer might be thinking who struggles with passion and Justice and we all love justice but Jesus in the gospels often says leave worldly Justice to the courts but when it comes to you and when it comes to my gospel and my followers we turn the other cheek for Simon the Zealot and anyone who's identified with him who watches the show that's a a pierce through the heart so we start
• 36:30 - 37:00 there what means the most to our characters in our story and then the second one is all right what feels like if we don't include it is going to be a glaring conspicuous hole in this sermon like what I don't want people listening going oh my gosh I can't believe they skipped over the the best one exactly exactly yeah so so there's a little bit of that and then the third thing which I will be honest is not the first priority but yes there is an element where part
• 37:00 - 37:30 of my experience of making this show feel current and relatable is saying you know what they were going through back then is similar to what you're going through right now there was oppression there was poverty there was a division there was social and political and and religious tribalism and Jesus had answers for that and I want you to hear those because they apply to today when you thought about Sermon on the Mount what were some of those creative true Norths that you didn't want to get wrong or you wanted to stay true to I think
• 37:30 - 38:00 one of them was showing the impact of the sermon for the disciples I think another one we talked about was showing this shift from private Ministry to more public Ministry was there anything else anything else that you guys were trying to accomplish uh yeah that's a great question and I think if we're going to focus on The Sermon on the Mount that speaks to the larger True North as well but specifically in The Sermon on the Mount we're thinking okay okay here's an opportunity where Jesus is preaching and
• 38:00 - 38:30 not only do we want to make it make sense to our Our Heroes of the story but also to the audience and the audience consists of many Believers obviously but also many people who are on the fence people who are new Believers people who have church hurt people who haven't believed maybe in a while but their grandmother told them watch to the show and so they're considering it and then there's the people who are skeptical of faith and religion and are not followers of Christ which actually represents a good chunk of our cast and crew so
• 38:30 - 39:00 here's the good news the things that Jesus is saying in The Sermon on the Mount have resonance and meaning and speak to all of the people I just mentioned all of those groups have something in this sermon that they can hear so you might not believe he's the son of God in your life but listen to this listen to what he had to say listen to how humble he was listen listen to how direct he was in other things listen to what his priorities really were and
• 39:00 - 39:30 and that's someone who changed my life and a lot of it is because of these teachings so I think that's a true north for that scene and it's a true north for the Show and The Sermon on the Mount is one really key aspect of that journey and I hope that that's true for you when I was looking at Jesus kind of workshopping The Sermon on the Mount with Matthew and he wakes him up and says Matthew bye-bye I've got it the opening yes what
• 39:30 - 40:00 is it a map the what directions where people should look to find me how did you settle on that metaphor of the map the moment with Matthew um my co-writer Tyler Thompson he wrote that line it's a map you know if people want to know how to find me these this is the person they should look for yes the person who is me the person and I just I mean I even get goosebumps now
• 40:00 - 40:30 remembering it I just thought my goodness that is so good and so resonant and it speaks to how Matthew would be wondering yes but how is it the map if someone wants to find me those are the groups they should look for and when Jesus answers I just went oh oh thank you Tyler that is so a beautiful moment last question you
• 40:30 - 41:00 spent so much time thinking through how the sermon on mount's going to land for characters in the story and so as you've done that with your writing team was there something new for you or fresh or surprising about The Sermon on the Mount the thing that has stood out to me is Jesus was and is a personal God he is an intimate God he spoke to the masses yes at times but man every time he healed every time he called someone to follow him every time he rebuked someone he spoke to their specific need or their specific struggle that has been my my
• 41:00 - 41:30 greatest impact in the last four or five years is just wow he is the god who knows me he's the God who sees so that applied especially to The Sermon on the Mount it's why I didn't show a ton of wide shots I always knew that when Jesus came out on stage instead of the audience standing up to greet him they sat down and I knew that when he delivered the sermon it was him in the middle surrounded by people he's personal he looks at them he looks directly at the disciples that's a
• 41:30 - 42:00 result of what I've learned about Jesus even more the second thing is that what really hits me as someone who happens to be just under 6'4 225 I was an athlete my whole life I have the ability to be a a fighter if I wanted to be I don't get challenged too often and The Sermon on the Mount when it talks about meekness and humility and brokenheartedness those are things that I'm not naturally those parts of the sermon I think hopefully really
• 42:00 - 42:30 resonating with Simon the Zealot Big James some of the folks who are a little bit more aggressive just going man he is just clear over and over in the gospels turn the other cheek if someone asks you for one thing you give him an extra thing I mean I'll give you a spoiler alert in season four the disciples are actually faced with a moment where they have to act out live out what Jesus said about if you're asked to go one mile you go two oh wow cool because that was referring to a Roman law or the Romans could at any point give their equipment
• 42:30 - 43:00 and the Jews would have to carry it for a mile that's for me that doesn't come naturally to me uh I am not Meek and uh I am learning that that man if by the time I die on this side of Heaven I can at least make some progress yeah towards the Beatitudes especially the ones about you think you should get even you think you should be strong you think you should be first you think you should be a leader an influencer no in my weakness I will be
• 43:00 - 43:30 strong I must die to myself all right that's going to take some time knowing that to say that you were so impacted when the line was written if someone wants to find me those are the groups of people that they need to look for the meek the lowly the poor in spirit that it impacted you still says a lot about The Sermon on the Mount that it could cut through all of that this is who Dallas is is oh man yeah absolutely and and isn't that the best thing that you
• 43:30 - 44:00 can do it's what the Bible project does it's what the chosen has been doing is how often you hear the word aha or oh I never dot dot dot is the greatest thing you can hear if scales can be removed from eyes so that scripture can become even more clear what could be better written on your Tombstone that's what the Sermon on the Mount can do and if that CH was going to be part of that kind of re-energizing or refocusing people's experience with
• 44:00 - 44:30 these 2,000 year old Transcendent words uh there's nothing better good word thank you Dallas thank you thanks so much for having me [Music] on I grew up in the church and I can't think of a season in my life where I spent a dedicated amount of time to just really go through the Sermon on the Mount yeah it's interesting to think about how different Traditions within
• 44:30 - 45:00 Christian history have emphasized or underemphasized you know and that actually creates this fascinating history because Jesus's ethical demands they're so intense that they have provoked a variety of responses let's be honest loving your enemies your actual cultural political enemies people that want to harm and kill you and your family that's what Jesus is talking about someone who's threatening your way of life yes yeah and he says love them
• 45:00 - 45:30 bless them pray for them yeah and actually the disconnect between how many Christians have behaved through history in contrast to how Jesus called his followers to behave it's been a really kind of obvious Delta that people outside the Christian Community can look at and be like really is that yeah there was in the 20th century an Orthodox Jewish rabbi who actually wrote wrote a book about this his name was Pinas leid
• 45:30 - 46:00 the book is called The Sermon on the Mount Utopia or program for action and it's a book both exploring the teachings of a Jewish rabbi and this is a Jewish rabbi writing about ancient Jewish rabbi but also he was trying to kind of poke at Christians and just say like have you really read your rabbis teachings you know you take this seriously yeah so he puts it this way he says in fact the history of the impact of The Sermon on the Mount can largely be described in terms of an attempt to
• 46:00 - 46:30 domesticate everything in it that is shocking demanding and uncompromising and so render it harmless domesticated yeah yeah so this is actually New Testament scholar Scott mcnight who drew my attention to Le's book and to this whole theme of ways that different Christian groups throughout history have domesticated did the sermon and so one of them might be like what you named ignore
• 46:30 - 47:00 it pretend he he didn't fully mean it which is actually kind of overlaps with to portray Jesus's ideals here as kind of an impossible ideal like he meant them but really just to point out that we can't ever live that way so he's just painting a picture to help you see that you're going to fail yeah and so within Protestant Christian traditions this got joined to a view that the purpose of the law is to show us how far we fall short
• 47:00 - 47:30 of fulfilling God's law and that's a very common way that Christians have approached the laws in the Old Testament and so the teachings of Jesus kind of get added along as a new testament equivalent to the laws given through Moses but I think the question is did Jesus actually intend his followers to behave the way he calls them to or is it just a set of ideals that we should merely strive towards is it possible is
• 47:30 - 48:00 it possible to live by The Sermon on the Mount yeah and in some ways I guess you could say well no you're you're never going to fully do it but in another sense I just can't get that picture of Cory ten Boom with that man's hand reached out to her yes that's an impossible moment yeah yeah but she did it but she did it because she heard Jesus calling her to do it yeah from his words in this out and so it wasn't an impossible ideal for yeah yeah so one way is to kind of paint
• 48:00 - 48:30 it as too extreme and you can ignore it or underemphasize it mcnight talks about another domestication strategy it's different is to portray the sermon as a individual ethic in other words it's about person-to-person relations and it's true most of Jesus's teachings are framed in interpersonal ways yeah if someone has something against you leave your sacrifice at the
• 48:30 - 49:00 altar go and reconcile that's right but if this is the charter for interpersonal relationships for follower of Jesus it does raise the question of well should it govern then how groups of people relate to other groups of people and should the value set of The Sermon on the Mount determine how you guide a a community a city a nebor neighborhood should the values like influence public policy what about when nations are being
• 49:00 - 49:30 hostile towards each other and lining up tanks to steal each other's resources right if the whole nation tried to live out the ethics of The Sermon on the Mount could they still be a nation state that's a great question like radically forgiving and peacemaking maybe on an individual basis that could work but could work on a corporate level that's right and there are many Christian thinkers through
• 49:30 - 50:00 history who have said no yeah no so famously Martin Luther Kind of had a way of thinking about politics and theology that like the city and the kingdoms of this world are run by an ethic that is in some way at odds with the Christian ethic and that is just an inevitable reality of the present age another strategy that Scott mcnight named would be something called the hyper committed
• 50:00 - 50:30 approach this is a tradition that developed and especially in Catholic and Orthodox traditions where the monastic movement began and often you know monasteries first began to originate in the third and fourth fifth centuries as a response to Christianity getting so in mesed in the political economic powers of the day that they were like renewal movements of people withdrawing from the status quo version of Christianity really amazing Stories and they these are often communities that really tried
• 50:30 - 51:00 to live by The Sermon on the Mount but because they were so Off the Grid of like normal right day-to-day create your own little Utopia yeah yeah that it became an in effect a domestication strategy which is well you know the monks and the nuns like they can do that over there but I live in the city I'm like the blacksmith yeah right I'm I got to compromise yeah so good thing there are some people doing that and they can pray for me so I'm I'm overgeneralizing a little
• 51:00 - 51:30 bit but not by much so let me ask you then here's how I'm feeling please tell me I want to know how you're feeling I'm feeling excited about being challenged but I'm also feeling very realistic about the fact that I'm not going to be able to fully on board and integrate the ethics of Jesus and so I want to but I grew up in a Protestant household yeah where there was this constant drum beat of you need the grace of God in your
• 51:30 - 52:00 life yeah and so I'm kind of just I guess hoping that the spirit of God will show up in a way and like kind of help make this a reality I mean those are all of the things that I think should be stirring in our hearts even just after reading the Hebrew scriptures the way Jesus did I mean the whole story is God selecting a people out of the Nations family of Israel to live by the wisdom of God's instruction that's revealed
• 52:00 - 52:30 primarily through Moses and the laws of Mount Si and the whole story of Israel is about how they fail that as if it were an impossible ideal but it's not an impossible ideal God actually called his people to live by his wisdom and the Hebrew prophets looked forward to a day when God's covenant faithfulness when his compassion and mercy and his Spirit would so transform the hearts of his people that they would actually live the way that he called them to live oh wow
• 52:30 - 53:00 so when Jesus touches down announcing kingdom of God is here he is the grace of God become human calling and empowering his followers to do the same so even though you're talking about your Protestant shaped ethic I think that is one of the most beautiful parts of the Protestant tradition is that awareness that the calling to live in reality by the teachings of Jesus is itself a part of and a result of a response to this
• 53:00 - 53:30 transformational work that God's doing in the Human family and so it's God's work in us and it's our work with God and those are not opposite things in the biblical imagination but all the same knowing that we're going to fail and that we be moments where we don't take the person's hand and where we don't forgive them but if we're open to letting Jesus work in our minds and our hearts imagine what could
• 53:30 - 54:00 [Music] happen maybe the stories that we went through that were so inspiring maybe they're inspiring because they seem so rare but what if they weren't so rare I don't know any other way to hope that those types of events become more common except one idea would be to take a year and Crawl Through The Sermon on the Mount and really let it soak into every
• 54:00 - 54:30 fiber of our hearts and minds and let's see what happens [Music] deal so this year we're going to dive into what is a most familiar piece of scripture in The Sermon on the Mount and hopefully we're going to be able to see it with new eyes well put the Bible
• 54:30 - 55:00 project is a nonprofit We Exist to experience the Bible as a unified story that leads to Jesus and everything that we create is free because of the generous support of thousands of people just like you thanks for being a part of this with us hey this is Cooper here to read the credits Stephanie Tam is the lead producer for today's show production of today's episode is by producer Lindsay Ponder managing producer Cooper pelts producer Colin Wilson Tyler Bailey is our audio engineer and he also provided our sound
• 55:00 - 55:30 design and mix for the episode today Frank Garza and Tyler Bailey edited today's episode Brad Woody does our show notes Hannah wo provides the annotations for our app the original Sermon on the Mount music is by Richie Cohen and the Bible project theme song is by tents special thanks to Jonathan Pennington Dallas Jenkins and Dan gummel and your hosts John Collins and Michelle Jones hi hi this is Spencer and I'm from Reading California hi this is Brena from Wayne Pennsylvania I first heard about Bible
• 55:30 - 56:00 project when I stumbled across their word study videos on YouTube I've used the Bible project for personal study and growth as well as teaching Sunday school and youth group at my church as a high school English teacher my favorite thing about Bible project is the careful attention they pay to the significance of the literary design my favorite thing about Bible project is how they highlight unifying themes throughout the whole Bible and just make it come alive to Believers of all background we believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus we're a crowdfunded
• 56:00 - 56:30 project by people like me find free videos study notes podcasts classes and more at Bible pro.com [Music]