Why Traders Keep Getting REJECTED for Payouts

Summary

In this engaging podcast episode, James, the founder of Piparm, and Petros from FundPro explore the challenges traders face in the prop trading industry, especially concerning payouts. They discuss the rapid growth of Piparm in Latin America, touching upon the hurdles of regulation, the necessity of risk management, and the ever-present issue of slippage. As they delve into the genuine need for regulation, they highlight how it weeds out bad actors in the industry. While traders often criticize firms when issues arise, the duo emphasizes transparency, proper communication, and the importance of a trader's responsibility in understanding market conditions. The conversation touches on how regulation could shape the future of prop trading and the importance of sustainable business practices for the longevity of prop firms.

Highlights

• The podcast was recorded during Piparm's Latin America tour in Mexico City 🇲🇽
• Discussed the challenges of regulation in the emerging prop trading industry 📜
• Highlighted the importance of risk management and understanding market variables 📊
• Addressed the skepticism around prop firms and the reality of funding through failed challenges 🚫
• Discussed the importance of payout transparency and its impact on trader trust 🔍

Key Takeaways

• Understand the variables of different trading times to manage positions effectively ⏰
• Regulation will filter out bad actors, making the industry more credible 🚦
• Most trading practices need transparency and honesty to succeed 🌟
• Payouts are crucial for trust between traders and firms 💰
• Education and risk management are vital for traders to avoid pitfalls 📚

Overview

During this exciting podcast episode, James from Piparm and Petros from FundPro dive deep into the intricacies of prop trading and the common issues traders encounter, particularly with payouts. With Piparm rapidly expanding in Latin America, the two industry leaders highlight the importance of connecting with local markets and the potential impacts of anticipated regulations. James shares insights from a lively panel discussion in Mexico City, bringing to light the emerging nature of prop trading in new geographical areas.

Petros emphasizes the critical nature of risk management, slippage, and the realistic expectations within trading. They both underline the potential role of regulation to not only enhance credibility but also protect against fraudulent players in the space. Understanding that variables differ by region and time, they advocate for trader education to improve market engagement and identify genuine opportunities amid market fluctuations.

The lively discussion also sheds light on the often misunderstood prop trading structure, such as the role of simulated trading environments and the actual financial dynamics involving failed challenges. While Petros argues for clearer rules to prevent misinformation, James reinforces the critical nature of transparent communication and honesty in advertising. Despite the hurdles, both leaders see a promising future for prop trading, driven by technological advancements and improved regulatory frameworks.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction to Risk Management and Prop Trading In this chapter, the focus is on the importance of understanding market variables at different times of the day for effective risk management in trading. It highlights the need for traders to present cases explaining the outcomes on the risk side, leading to decisions such as rejecting certain trades. One personal anecdote is shared where a trader made a significant profit of $10k from an initial $1,000 investment in only three hours. The chapter also touches on the satisfaction stemming from profitable endeavors, with a special mention of the happiness risk management teams feel when traders secure profits despite noting that the total losses since launching amounted to $3 million.
• 00:30 - 01:30: Podcast Introduction and Latin America Tour The chapter introduces James, the founder of Piparm, who is hosting the podcast. He reflects on his unexpected visit to Mexico City during an intense Latin America tour. The challenges of jet lag are humorously acknowledged as James discusses meeting someone named Petros during the visit.
• 01:30 - 02:30: Panel Discussion and Industry Insights In this chapter titled 'Panel Discussion and Industry Insights', the discussion centers around proprietary trading, also known as prop trading, in Latin America. Piparm is highlighted as a rapidly growing firm in the region, backed by a burgeoning community of content creators and progressive developments. Another prominent firm, FundPro, is recognized for its impressive operations and ethical practices. The chapter features insights from industry leaders, like Petros, offering valuable perspectives on the industry's current status and trends.
• 02:30 - 04:30: Prop Trading and Regulation Challenges The chapter titled 'Prop Trading and Regulation Challenges' discusses the behind-the-scenes aspects of the proprietary trading business and the regulatory challenges it faces. The speakers express excitement and readiness as they journey into these lesser-seen areas of the business. They acknowledge the logistical challenges of adjusting to different time zones due to travel, reflecting the global nature of the trading business.
• 04:30 - 07:00: Trader Responsibility and Slippage The chapter discusses a panel that was reset for another week and provided interesting discourse. The feedback received was positive, noting the natural flow of the conversation. The discussion emphasized the significance of Mexico and the Latin American markets (LATAM) as emerging markets, highlighting substantial growth and the company's heavy investment in these regions.
• 07:00 - 09:30: The Need for Regulation in Trading In this chapter, a panel discussion highlights the importance of regulating trading activities. The speaker reflects on prior discussions with the panel and humorously notes the challenge of jet lag affecting participants during the event, except for those who had acclimatized ahead of time.
• 09:30 - 12:00: Trust and Transparency in Prop Firms The chapter discusses the recurring topic of regulation in proprietary trading. The speaker expresses skepticism towards the conversation about regulation, labeling it as somewhat futile due to the numerous variables and parties involved, making future outcomes unpredictable.
• 12:00 - 14:30: Experience with Prop Firms and Regulation In this chapter, the speaker discusses the challenges and considerations in dealing with proprietary trading firms and regulations in the financial industry. The speaker emphasizes the importance of focusing on present realities rather than potential future changes, suggesting that businesses should operate based on current conditions. They express a reluctance to engage in discussions about regulation, perceiving it as a topic filled with uncertainties. This view highlights a preference for dealing with known quantities rather than hypothetical situations. The chapter underscores the complexity and multifaceted nature of operating within the regulatory landscape of proprietary trading.
• 14:30 - 21:00: Payout Expectations and Customer Experience The chapter titled 'Payout Expectations and Customer Experience' discusses the speaker's stance on regulation within the industry. The speaker expresses a readiness for regulation but admits a reluctance towards it, highlighting the complexity and necessity of regulatory frameworks. The speaker uses humor to express feelings towards regulation, indicating a nuanced relationship with it. The discussion draws parallels between current regulatory challenges in the prop space and those faced by the regulated brokerage space in the past, suggesting a cyclical nature to these issues within the financial sector. The mention of an 'open door' likely refers to opportunities or vulnerabilities that arise in lightly regulated or transitioning markets.
• 21:00 - 27:00: Perceptions and Misunderstandings in Prop Trading The chapter explores the perceptions and misunderstandings surrounding proprietary trading (prop trading). It highlights the issue of control and authority within the sector, noting that a lack of perceived control can lead to opportunities for scammers to take advantage. The chapter suggests that despite the industry's potential weaknesses ('quite junk'), the occurrence of scams negatively impacts its reputation and credibility, leading to calls for regulation.
• 27:00 - 33:00: Sustainability and Competition in Prop Firms The chapter discusses the challenges faced by proprietary trading firms (prop firms) in maintaining sustainability and fair competition. It highlights the common misconception that prop trading might be a scam and the continuous efforts made by the marketing department to address this perception. The industry is described as being in its nascent stages, and the inevitability of regulation is acknowledged. Properly functioning prop firms are encouraged not to fear regulation, as it will eventually come and ensure fair practices in the industry.
• 33:00 - 34:30: Conclusion and Final Thoughts The chapter "Conclusion and Final Thoughts" discusses the importance of regulating the financial industry to eliminate bad players and prevent scams. It reflects on past incidents in both the forex market and brokerage firms where significant scams occurred, highlighting the necessity of regulation. The speaker emphasizes a personal belief in the inevitability of regulatory measures, although uncertain of the exact timing of their implementation.

Why Traders Keep Getting REJECTED for Payouts Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 I believe traders should do better to understand the variables at different times of the day on different instruments to be able to manage their positions properly. They present the case and say this is what happened in the risk side. So we had to reject. I made 10k from $1,000 in just 3 hours. When somebody will be paid, I don't think he will come and complain. I don't care. They pay me. I calculated that if I a booked every trader since we launched lost 3 million. So, your risk management guys are happy
• 00:30 - 01:00 with your decision. I'm happy. Yeah. Yeah, I bet. What was your first thought when someone explained PropFarm to you? Hi everyone, it's James, the founder of Piparm. Welcome back to another podcast. Today we're in Mexico City, a city that I never imagined that I would be anytime soon. We've been on this pretty intense Latin America tour and yesterday or the day before uh jet lag has not just made me lose track of time but lose track of days. Uh I met Petros and we held a
• 01:00 - 01:30 panel together about prop trading in Latin America. And as you may know, Piparm is growing pretty fast in Latin America and we have some incredible content creators and things are really coming to life here. And FundPro is one of the more impressive uh prop firms that we have in the industry that are doing things the right way. And for me, it's really great to connect with guys like Petros to learn more about how they see the industry and also uh find some insights that we can share with you
• 01:30 - 02:00 because this is a part of the business that most of you don't get an opportunity to see. So, we are now behind the veil and we're going to go in some interesting places. So, stay tuned. Thank you, James, for the warm welcome. Um I'm so happy to be here so with Anna. Um it's uh it's actually a very long flight from from uh the central offices and I also lost time and and days funny enough and now we're getting used to it. We have to fly back and then we will
• 02:00 - 02:30 reset again for another one week. Um the panel the panel as expected was actually very very interesting. Um I received good feedback for all the the discussion and actually it was one of the very few times that it was flowing so uh naturally as a discussion. Um uh Mexico and uh LATAM general are are emerging markets. We we see huge growth in in our company and we are going to heavily invest here. So I'm very happy that I
• 02:30 - 03:00 shared the panel with you um because we we discussed and we touched base some very important matters which I assume we will also discuss here and um thank you very much for having me one more time. We were very lucky. We were discussing before the panel. Everyone looked almost dead. Yeah. Uh because of the jet lag. So I had the handicap where we came a week earlier which meant that we've already adjusted our body clock. So I did have a unfair advantage. You were you were the lucky one. the rest were I think it was obvious in their faces that
• 03:00 - 03:30 uh something was uh you know not uh well enough to but anyway it's it's part of the trip right yeah so yeah one of the topics that keeps coming up in the panels and any kind of corporate content on on prop trading is regulation for me I think it's um kind of a pointless conversation because it's like uh predicting you're trying to predict something where there there are so many variables and there are so many parties,
• 03:30 - 04:00 there are so many pieces, there are so many demands, so many regions and everyone's trying to think of an answer before there is an answer. So, um, for me, I like to accept what is temporary as permanent because you can't run a business based on things that might not happen. So, you only know what is today. And for me, this is why I really don't like to engage in the uh conversation about regulation. And you may have uh heard my very slightly comment, which is
• 04:00 - 04:30 I'm ready for regulation, but I don't want to. It was hilarious. I mean, as I said on also on the panel, um up to a level, we embrace um the regulation. Um unfortunately, and this doesn't happen only in in in the prop space. I think it uh it's a fact that it happened also in the regulated brokerage space 15 years ago or 10 years ago or even few years ago like um when you have an open door
• 04:30 - 05:00 and you people don't feel that you you have been in control by um your authority um then realistically speaking it's a fact that there is an open door for scammers right and people have been scammed already even though the sector is actually quite junk and then the moment this happens unfortunately it hits um the reputation and the credibility first of all of the sector and then all of the rest because people will say no regulation this is what
• 05:00 - 05:30 happened prop trading is a scam etc etc and this is this is the battle that we're fighting every day in the marketing department to I mean regulation is necessary this industry is way too young and the regulation will come. It's just a matter of time. Yeah. And I think that it's not something that um prop firms that are doing their job the right way should be scared of. It should be just something that will
• 05:30 - 06:00 filter out the bets uh the bad players in the game. Yeah. Look pe people tend to forget that again few years ago or even uh in the recent history we had big cases in the regulated space of forex or brokers with big scams as well. So once again um in in this company and on a personal level I believe that it is a necessity anyway it's coming which is don't know when or I think everybody
• 06:00 - 06:30 agrees on that or how yes correct u but at the end of the day when when you are as clean as you can be or as clean as you want to be you have nothing to be afraid and actually it's the opposite like because it will clean the table yeah from any kind of insecurity of people who are doing things in the shadows and etc. So I really liked your comment. It was to the point it was very um honest. Um on the other hand
• 06:30 - 07:00 um we are getting ready for something that we don't know how it will come and when but it will come. So yeah. Yeah. For me it was interesting how it came first. No one talked about regulations before the biggest company in the industry got shut down and no one were none of the traders was actually criticizing this company before they actually shut down. So this was the interesting and funny part for me. All the influencers that were trading with
• 07:00 - 07:30 this company, we all know which company it is. um they started talking against them and talking about how they have been sleeped and how everything was so bad once they closed but they were not complaining when they were receiving their payouts in a very short amount of time everything was smooth everyone was getting paid so I would also like say for the traders it's really easy to just blame uh and to kind of um transfer your
• 07:30 - 08:00 responsibility to another party because it's much easier to give the responsibility to someone else rather than taking responsibility yourself. So um I think that it's um it's it will be interesting to see how this regulation will will come and I'm curious what happened. I know that the case were was supposed to finish what did it or not? I actually haven't checked. I was buying the documents as they were published by the courts but I didn't get the final document that said I'm really curious. I'm really curious to see what is the
• 08:00 - 08:30 outcome. Okay, we'll Google it later. Yeah. Um but yeah, it was interesting that people were criticizing this company and I wouldn't criticize them. I was trading with them. Yes, I lost accounts, but uh we got what we what means the most for us, the payouts. So why would we complain if the slippage? Yes, the slippage was there. I could notice it. But if you're a proper trader, you can just manage your risk properly and Yeah. Yeah. Your payout will be lower, but you you will still get paid. You will not get screwed and
• 08:30 - 09:00 get denied. Yeah, like many other companies did. Yeah. The problem with the slippage is many traders just take their stop loss way too close to the daily loss that a small amount of slippage can lose the account for them. That's why they get very upset about it. But again, it's their responsibility. Exactly. Um slippage is very well known and I believe traders should do better to understand the variables at different times of the day on different instruments to be able to manage their positions properly. Yeah, look at the end of the days up to a level of course
• 09:00 - 09:30 slippage is actually part of the trading. I mean it's a market condition againly depends what's happening on the uh back office but uh up to a level it's part of the trading. So of course if it will be used on a specific um logic it can be yeah against the trader. Yeah we all agree. my support team. Every time we get a complaint about slippage, we go and we compare against three prop firms and two tier one brokers just to check the tick
• 09:30 - 10:00 prices between the prices we received and the tick prices that they received just to make sure that the breach is fair and if ever those prices deviate from uh the consensus then we give the account back to the trader and refund the slippage. Fair enough. Because also mistakes happen and it's very timeconuming to do this. I think each case takes 20 25 minutes but again it's the right thing to do maybe more they do it often enough so they they have lots of practice but and about regulation there there is the as you mentioned the
• 10:00 - 10:30 um people like to transfer responsibility to someone else but for something like this it's really complicated and very few people are explaining to traders like we are today what is going on behind the scenes and how the business works so how are you supposed to regulate something that you don't understand for example I couldn't uh I went to the pharmacy today to buy some medicine. I couldn't make a decision whether this medicine is going to be safe for me or not. I have to assume that someone else did that for me and I mean I know what the medicine
• 10:30 - 11:00 should do. I know uh how it should work. I know how many I should take, things like that. But um I don't have the capabilities to verify if it's a good medicine or not. And I think it's the same with financial services products as well. They are really complicated. Even just understanding how they work on the in the front is hard enough, let alone how everything works behind the scenes. And this is the main thing that I think regulation will will bring to us. It's like a seal of approval and this peace
• 11:00 - 11:30 of mind for the traders that they can just breathe a little bit and take um uh sleep a little bit bit better at night and maybe some protection for gamblers. There should be something like that. I I I I actually don't like this and I'll explain why. This is considered a product intervention measure and this is when the regulator comes and starts dictating how you should offer your product and this is exactly what they did in CFDs. So they came and they said um you're not allowed to give this much leverage to this customer. Um they have
• 11:30 - 12:00 arguments for it. They consult everyone and they listen or don't listen. It's still their choice at the end of the day. But product intervention measures take away the decisions from the operators and it's a slippery slope once they start. Yeah. But it's again it it's about me um someone's health. It's something that is very serious. So I think that this is necessary. People that depends like people that have um that have some form of addiction should be treated in a different way. Yes. So
• 12:00 - 12:30 if there Yeah. So again, it always depends on what is going to be demanded. Let's say if it's if um if it's a framework, right? If someone buys this many challenges and this amount of time and spends that much money and their means don't allow them or do allow them, something like that is too rigid. I don't like that. But if it's something how they do in like a pub, right? Someone can have 10 drinks, someone can have two drinks, but the person who had two drinks can be the problem, right? So
• 12:30 - 13:00 um it's very hard to quantify these things but there has to be a certain amount of responsibility again given to the operator to look for for me I mean right now the biggest topic for the regulator is that essentially there is no client's funds. Mhm. Because you know the the majority of regulation is on the regulated space of brokerage is based on the fact that somebody is investing his money and he should be protected here. practically he doesn't
• 13:00 - 13:30 invest his money and he's handling your money our money um so this is the first line that they have to to check I I don't think they will go in such a deep uh space and details just like you said if this trader buys x number of challenges you can kick him out or not but uh as you mentioned probably they will say okay we need to see a policy
• 13:30 - 14:00 that's your policy this is it okay approved or not in terms of the legal framework again it's something that we we cannot know we don't know uh what it might be and that's um the headache that they have to solve um I think it actually prolongs the time for us and that's it and it's all about adaptability everyone will adapt yeah with when one way or another they will not just come and say hey let's close all the co companies because
• 14:00 - 14:30 they are not fulfilling the requirements they will come and they will say these are the requirements you have that's that many months to adapt if you want to operate yeah which is fair one of the initiatives that we do is every quarter we survey our traders to ask them bunch of questions about their thoughts and feelings on the industry one of the questions we had last time was what do they think is the most important thing about regulation what would they like regulators to govern what area should they look at and from And the answer, the interesting part is what everyone
• 14:30 - 15:00 wanted. It was just a code of conduct. No one said, very few people said yes to capital requirements. Very few people said uh anything about conduct or organizational structure. What everyone focused on was just uh policies and procedures. And I think it's because they don't understand the other stuff, right? The important stuff. Is there money? Is the person running the company a criminal? Is the person owning the company a criminal? or they think that the policy will cover that.
• 15:00 - 15:30 No, I I don't think people even think that in that much of a sinister way because those are quite sinister thoughts. I think I before I came in this industry and learned about KYC and anti-moneyaundering, I wasn't thinking um the consequences of having a criminal record could prevent me from opening a bank account, for example. So, I think most people are completely unaware of it. Yeah. And those for me I was expecting to be the avalanche of answers, right? Uh you need to have money, you need to have competency, you need to have a good reputation and you
• 15:30 - 16:00 need to have education, knowledge and experience. But no, just policies and procedures. So I think a big thing is a lot of traders don't even understand what a regulator is even supposed to do. I mean unfortunately the industry is full of uneducated people. It's a very the percentage of educated people is very small. uh and of people that are actually willing to invest time to understand the industry. Majority of people are just seeing an influencer online and uh seeing a video on YouTube
• 16:00 - 16:30 uh I made 10k from $1,000 in just three hours. And I'm like, "Oh, let me do that as well. It would be cool to have 10 grand in three hours." and they think that things are easy and they don't they believe in getrich quick schemes. That's and this is this is the majority of the clients of propforms according to everything that I've seen. Uh so that's why I'm not surprised by the answer uh
• 16:30 - 17:00 on the survey. Yeah. So the biggest social proof that we have is obviously the payout certificates. And for me this is a double-edged sword, right? because you're showing this opportunity or this potential as a marketing tool, but also you need it for credibility to show the community that you really do pay and how much you pay and how fast you pay. For example, you even have a time stamp on your certificates to say, "We paid this guy in one and a half hours and 22 minutes and 22 seconds." And Yes. Yeah. And some people could look at that as
• 17:00 - 17:30 bait. you're trying to bait traders into this uh exciting opportunity, but then also you need to do that because if you don't publish those certificates, then no one will know if you're a credible company or you can pay. And I remember a year ago until we had our first payout of Piparm, no one paid any attention. No one um bought anything. We were doing, you know, $20 a day for the first month or something. And then as soon as someone finally got paid, this, you know, everything starts to happen
• 17:30 - 18:00 because Yeah. because at the end of the day that's the majority of traders this is what they it's the product this is what they want right like and and I think if you actually do what you say what that you're going to do so daily payouts we will pay you in x number of days whatever um obviously in the beginning they will have some uh question marks like will this happen I made this profit oh I heard from other
• 18:00 - 18:30 companies that people made profit and they didn't pay them etc. The moment that actually it happens I mean it u it gives you a relief I mean imagine that you you invested your time not your money but actually there is also the cost of opportunity maybe this person also the money like there are people from different third world countries that these money are are money for them. Yes, for some people it might not be money, but for some for other people some people are saving 3 months to buy a
• 18:30 - 19:00 challenge and that's not a joke. And then you you spend your time and effort and while at the same time you could have put this money somewhere else. Yeah. And finally ideas somewhere else. Yes. Exactly. So finally you you made it you had your profits and then somebody denies payment for a nonvalid reason. When there is a valid reason to deny it. Okay, everybody should understand. But when there's no actual valid reason um then it creates issues on your
• 19:00 - 19:30 um you know reputation. Reputation. Yes. So practically they they care. They it's it's I think it's human natural that you know until I get the money I don't know if I should believe them. Yeah. Yeah. And especially with all the experiences that we've had the c the last couple of years, I mean last year actually uh so many firms shut down and so many people got uh burned by getting payout denied
• 19:30 - 20:00 with uh payout denials without having a solid reason. For example, a trader would trade with a co with a company and they will receive multiple payouts and all of a sudden they say, "Oh, we noticed something in your trading." So you didn't notice the whole year that I was trading with you, but you noticed now. Okay. Yeah, this one is really bad. Yeah. Look, again, each case should be unique. I mean um yeah, it naturally brings
• 20:00 - 20:30 question marks. Yeah, obviously. But um there are few cases um that you know while talking to other people without sharing data um they you know they they present the case and say this is what happened in the risk side so we had to reject and as long as there is actually a transparency of what happened I think everybody should comply with that. Yeah. But again not not on the majority of of
• 20:30 - 21:00 cases. Yeah. Yeah. And of course uh people were not aware of the business model before be before um the biggest company shut down. Everyone was thinking that the profit share is an actual profit share. No one knew that they were trading on simulated funds which is a little bit weird. Why wouldn't but why wouldn't you think that? Because that's literally what you've been told to your face in the marketing. Yeah. Um not from everyone. Not from everyone. Yes. And and this is also back to regulation. quite an interesting point is what you
• 21:00 - 21:30 tell about your product should be honest right so for example we don't do what funpro does we don't have um we don't execute every traders or have a strategy that is automated in any way so if I then start telling people that I do that that's a lie um but then in your case it's not so then it's okay and I think that's also something important for consumer protection is you have to be honest and you have to not prove to every trader but at least the regulator should be able to come and say okay you show me how that works and then I'll be
• 21:30 - 22:00 the one that kind of vouches for you. Yeah. Yeah. But the main concern that traders have now is that before they thought that traders were trading and making money and that's how the income uh was coming for the companies but now they know that uh the income is from failed challenges. So that's why people are more negative and are questioning every every single thing. But look again surprisingly if you are a traditional forex broker uh on a on an industry
• 22:00 - 22:30 average 70 to 85% of people lose their money and it is a disclaimer on yeah on every single broker with with letters like um and everybody knows that there are a book brokers, book brokers and hybrid book brokers. So, and all of a sudden we we switch to the prop and it's a surprise. Um, so it's a lack of education that is surprised again. I
• 22:30 - 23:00 mean, obviously, uh, some things when you send trades to the market might be more transparent, but at the end of the day, I think before this is the number two, the number one is that actually you pay them. So, as long as you pay them, it doesn't necessarily matter so much. They don't Yeah. up to a level when somebody will be paid I don't think he will come and and complain whether he was on on a bbook logic or hybrid book logic or they will not even some of them
• 23:00 - 23:30 they will not even understand and they will say I don't care they pay me I calculated that if I a booked every trader since we launched we've lost three million okay so if I just didn't care and I was okay go over there just STP everything would have been $3 million loss Okay. So, your risk management guys are happy with your decision. I'm happy. Yeah. Yeah. I bet. I bet. But it it reinforces the point that traders kind of just see this heaven and hell uh good and bad approach
• 23:30 - 24:00 to these strategies is so much more complicated. Traders are unaware of how small percentage of of traders are actually profitable. Um and the confusion also comes with uh the new uh smart people that are not traders but are uh tricking the whole model. So here is this created quite a huge confusion of what is the percentage of people that actually know how to trade and will be profitable if you a book them and you
• 24:00 - 24:30 give them just one account. Mh. And this makes the everything even more complicated. But it's so complicated for people to understand it. Yeah. Yeah. We we made a lot of content about this topic and everyone loved it even if it's hard to understand because there is so much context that's required to understand something that uh detailed. But people still appreciate it because they're trying to learn and they're and they're happy that they have the opportunity that someone is, you know, making it available because it's again it's like
• 24:30 - 25:00 what we forget because we're in the middle of it is how specific and how unique this is. This this is a unique and specific thing inside a unique and specific industry, right? Because if you think about the whole financial services sphere, okay, everyone knows actually I think most people don't even know what a bank does. But uh and then after that you have all these other services and they just get more and more granular and then you have okay uh derivatives and then inside of derivatives you have CFDs you have uh prop firm and when you were
• 25:00 - 25:30 just like move like it's so so specific. It's new it's relatively new. Uh it's still a baby industry comparing to others. Um I think in a in a okay relatively new because I think it's been already eight years maybe even more. Yeah. Um but still it's considered young. So in a few years from now maybe something else will come up and then this will be considered the prop training will be considered ah yes it's a pro firm. Yeah it's it's a forex
• 25:30 - 26:00 broker or whatever. Um people are up to a level afraid of the new things. I mean on one side they want to try it but on the other side we spoke about the fears and etc. So I think I think it will come to a level that things will calm down again when the regulator will find a way to implement things the dust will settle and everything will be continue as normal. Yeah as you
• 26:00 - 26:30 mentioned this has happened also with the brokerage industry. Yeah back in the days. So now it's time for the prop industry to go through to go through the same phases, some cleansing. Yes. So uh you and I, we both worked in CFD brokers before. What was your first thought when someone explained Prop Firm to you? Man, this is an amazing question. Um funny enough, I was I was talking about this uh in the expo with uh some of the friends. I mean, I still remember
• 26:30 - 27:00 that day. um they they they called me and they said uh you know what's your opinion about prop trading and I'm like so traditionally the actual proprietary trading in my head it was the one that was happening on the floors and and and the and the actual prop traders and I immediately replied um it's a weird question so you know it requires your
• 27:00 - 27:30 own capital it requires people who understand what they're doing. It's an amazing thing. And they're like, "No, no, no. We're not talking about this one, right?" And maybe I revealed my age now, but uh we're talking about the new trends. And so here is an example. These are uh the companies. This is what's going on. I remember that I spent one one week and I was like, "Okay, first of all, the principle is I pay and I get a demo account.
• 27:30 - 28:00 Yes. And they said yes. I'm like what are you guys talking about? Like why why should somebody pay for a demo account? Um first of all second um while researching I had to go into Telegram channels, Instagram X, you name it, right? So traditional channels that are way far away from the from the regulated
• 28:00 - 28:30 sphere and actually it's the red flags of every single regulator and in these groups I have saw uh I don't know spend 100 bucks and and buy a Ferrari and anything literally you can say anything you want right that was a second flag so you pay for a demo account everybody can say anything he wants to convince you. Third step is like when you do that and you prove to us that you're a good trader, we'll give
• 28:30 - 29:00 you our money and you manage them. So third flag was like, okay, so you ask from people to pay for a demo account. You can literally tell them anything you want and then you tell them we trust you. Here's our money. Trade with it and you get the majority of the trades. So it it was like the first reaction was like okay I mean it's a huge door for for um not uh yeah and not so um clear clear minds and you know you can do
• 29:00 - 29:30 everything on out way out of the gray zones you can scam people so um but then on the other side I realized that you know at the end of the day it's how you use it right so you have the umbrella of a broker or you are anywhere way thinking as if you would be regulated you have an advantage because people will start saying oh okay it's working more people will try and try and this how I got actually from the CFD
• 29:30 - 30:00 space to the prop space so the first reaction was like okay guys nobody's going to pay for the demo account this is a very big door for scamming people maybe we should stop discussing yeah but here here we are right it It was really a life-changing opportunity for uh people but for a very small percentage of people. The people that are willing to learn are willing to invest time in understanding how everything works. But as we said uh such
• 30:00 - 30:30 kind of people are very like small percentage maybe 5% not even maybe that much. Yeah. Uh so uh for people that have been like studying, back testing, collecting data, and really like doing the work um and they didn't have enough funds, this was a life-changing opportunity because they had to pay $500 to $1,000 to get an account, trade on this account, get a few payouts, get more accounts with this with the payouts that they got from the first account,
• 30:30 - 31:00 and they started making a living out of it. uh I know many of them personally so I know that it is life-changing for uh for a few people but I also have seen the data with all the companies that I've worked with on how many people are actually got getting into a credit depth because buying buying without any control and trying thinking that they will get lucky and that one account will save them. Yeah, this also comes back to
• 31:00 - 31:30 some of the stories people share on social media about how they actually started with debt and normalize it, which again is kind of goes back to the responsibility part because if you know someone doesn't have the means and you know that they're using credit card at some point there should be you should step up in in my opinion at least. So I'll I'll share I'll share when I first heard about uh prop trading. I was in a cafe in Bruno and a guy wanted to hire me and he was telling me about this uh
• 31:30 - 32:00 prop trading business model and he gave me an example of one customer who would be considered a gambler. He would buy a 200k account for about $2,000 and this was before the prices got pushed down. So that was I would say quite high and with add-ons and stuff maybe it became $2 and a half $3,000. Okay. So he buys those. Okay. But how many does he buy a day? four, five, seven, 10. How many days does he do that? Almost every day of the week and very hard on a Friday. And I was
• 32:00 - 32:30 just thinking like you, how is any of this real? How does this make any sense? How is this logical? Uh how is this a good product for someone to use? Um because it just sounds like free money. Back then it it could have sound like this. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it depends on the customer, right? That customer specifically is a free money customer, but then it goes into the book and gets mixed with all the other funds that are then used to distribute the profits to the actually good traders. As a trader representative, let's do um a fun pro
• 32:30 - 33:00 versus pip farm u game so to say. So we can begin with uh what are the unique value propositions uh that funro has? What why should we pickro as traders? I didn't know that you guys were going to test my sales skills. It's good. Everything is sales. The the way we approach um the market and the and the traders and the partners, whatever you want to call them, is um from from the day that uh
• 33:00 - 33:30 Fander Pro was created, the founders of the company have the mentality that um we are here and we need to be as transparent as possible. We we are willing to sacrifice profit margins. We are willing to do things the way we think they're a little bit cleaner without saying bad things about other companies. Um but our model has a
• 33:30 - 34:00 significant difference on the execution obviously. Um and we don't believe that somebody should be paid like should request something now and get it five 10 days later. So basically they created the company on the logic that it has to be executed in the market and somebody needs to take his profits on a daily basis. Um because at the end of the day since we're sending the trades to the market any single
• 34:00 - 34:30 profit that you make is is actually a profit also for us because we get the split and on top of that it's generated from the market. So we don't have to pay it from our pocket. Um so I think the values of the company have always been um built around um the execution model and the daily payouts. Um I'm not going to try to convince you about support and uh reputation etc because I know that more or less we all know who is in the
• 34:30 - 35:00 top 10 in reputation and I believe that we're both there. So I think that two uh USPS are these. So we've discussed in great depth how those two aspects transparency and fast payouts is what every trader wants, right? So we took a different approach but solve the same pain point for the for the customer. So our payouts are every Friday and while it's not every day or on demand, the
• 35:00 - 35:30 thing that it does give is the the clarity. So, uh, you know, when you, uh, I'm going a little bit off topic here, but when you order at Uber, you don't mind waiting if you know when you're going to get it. If you're waiting for a pizza, you don't mind waiting if you know where the pizza is. It's in the oven. It's on the bike. It's it's coming. So, the the pain point of the trader is not knowing. And when we had just ask for your payout whenever you want and we're going to pay it in 48 hours, this caused so much anxiety in the community because they're they, as
• 35:30 - 36:00 you said, they want their money. as soon as they ask for it. While we're not giving it to them as soon as they ask for it, we are saying exactly when they will get it. So they don't have to worry on Thursday when they're going to get it or let's say they ask on Tuesday, would I get it on th on Wednesday or Thursday? So they just know there's one clear answer that everyone can easily understand and communicate. It's Friday. So this is our company motto, Friday payday. And it's beautiful because it's simple. It's simple for internal
• 36:00 - 36:30 operations. it's simple for customers to understand and um because the thing is there's a I mean I think it's really cool how you guys pay really fast but you still get some people who who get anxious in the time between 1 hour and two hours you know that that that's actually true. So um you know it's human nature. It doesn't matter how fast you're going to we had cases that people had to wait literally 1 hour and then they were coming on the chat and say
• 36:30 - 37:00 last time was 30 minutes what's going on you yes and you know like then you realize like look one hour is not a delay but again I I understand the the concept like I'm sitting here you told me this is my money where is it um like you're absolutely right uh first of all from operations perspective people don't understand how difficult is it on the the daily payout is it's an opera it can become an operation nightmare it's expensive as well which I understand that it's not the problem of the actual
• 37:00 - 37:30 client but you know it's our problem um so and again it's funny that you said about the regulation yesterday because you have a policy you're clear to them that Friday is a payday so I think you ticked one of the boxes upcoming a request from the regulator which is it's a policy. So if okay our policy is different but we still have this policy and you have the policy of Friday. One of the um things that was trending
• 37:30 - 38:00 on social media a few months ago was why do prop firms take our money seven days a week but only give us support 5 days a week and to to address that we started 24/7 support and that was like with the payouts also a huge operational burden because now I have to make sure that I have people I know around the clock around the clock and also multiple languages as well so um but these funny enough to interrupt you I I don't recall. Okay. I maybe I know maximum
• 38:00 - 38:30 five regulated brokers who have support during the week, but there it's a standard thing. Nobody complains. Yeah. Right. Because the markets are closed and etc. So, but we have crypto trading. Yeah. Well, we do as well. But, you know, like it I think it will come as we said it will stabilize. Yes, but I saw your pain on the operations for the 24 support. So, all of these go back to customer experience
• 38:30 - 39:00 or trader experience. So, what are you what are you looking for in a prop firm? Yeah. So, I can answer I can give two answers. The general one that majority of traders are looking for and the one that I'm looking for. So in general uh traders are looking for a cheap challenge and uh easy challenge. This is what the the uh majority of traders are looking for uh without taking in consideration is this business
• 39:00 - 39:30 sustainable? Does it make sense? Who is running this business? Nothing of this. So the only thing that majority of traders care about is the price and how easy the challenge is. Uh what I'm personally looking for is is this does this company have a sustainable model? Uh am I going to waste my time with them or am I going to be able to trade with this company for a long period of time. So the things that I'm looking for is of course do they pay because the payout is
• 39:30 - 40:00 what we all care about. I don't care about anything else. I only care about whether I'm going to get paid or not. So the payout is definitely the most important thing. and then all the other extras are just a plus. So for me most important thing is whether the company is paying and um other and whether they have a sustainable model because with the knowledge that I have about the industry and with missing numbers by working with different companies I know
• 40:00 - 40:30 how to differentiate uh un unsustainable model from a sustainable model. So this is the only thing that I'm looking for is this is their uh model sustainable and um whether they're are paying out. There are people that care about the speed of the payout which I completely understand. Uh and they shouldn't be in such a position because if you're in a position where this uh payout is like urgent for you, this will spoil your decision- making and you will not make it to the next payout. So this is not
• 40:30 - 41:00 something that is important for me but I understand that it's important for others but it shouldn't be that way. So people should have to make I mean should think of a way of uh trading without pressure without feeling the need of getting the payout immediately. Then there is other type of people that maybe have cheated hatched and are getting anxious because they know that okay if it's taking longer time they have time to catch yeah they will investigate and they will catch me that I I don't know how to trade but I've made the profits
• 41:00 - 41:30 anyway. So yeah there are different perspectives but the most important thing is the payout. Of course that's what we are all like that's why we're trading. Yeah. To get a payout. It's the same with anything in life. We all get our salaries on the same day of every week, sorry, every month. And it's unfair to make someone wait for their salary. It's unfair, you know, you have an agreement and people should get their money when they're and and of course like uh it's not that there is no competition in the industry anymore.
• 41:30 - 42:00 There are so many prop firms. So the more you offer to the to the customer, the more you show that you care, the customer will like you more and will decide to go with you rather than going to another company. Running a prop firm, you have to learn how to say no because um we we started these surveys primarily as a marketing uh tool to for lead generation, but it's also useful to collect some insights. I would not uh this is the Anna is the only trader I listen to.
• 42:00 - 42:30 Um uh because if if you listen to the traders, they will bankrupt you. Um because they will want 110% profit share. They all want uh second by second payouts. Instant cheap. Yeah. $1 per 100k. Um no profit targets. Instant funding. Yeah. No consistency rules, no downs. Yeah. 99 99% uh max loss, 101% profit share. So this is so you it's
• 42:30 - 43:00 actually really complicated to position a prop firm to show these really important things for traders and make them understand the value when all they're thinking about is money because it it takes an experienced trader to understand that 24/7 support is good. It takes an experienced trader to understand that uh transparency and execution and risk management is good. Right? Because if you're if you just heard about this in a signal group or in Telegram or whatever, you won't know about any of this stuff. Do you provide any form of education for traders? Um,
• 43:00 - 43:30 we're we are doing our best. Obviously, there is big space for improvement, but uh at the end of the day, the more you educate them, the more profits theoretically they should could generate and the more payout you will I mean, you will get your percentage. So, yes. And uh but obviously there are big steps for improvement. So, we're we're trying to do our best now. Um but uh yeah hopefully it will be coming much better and better. Yeah thank you so much for
• 43:30 - 44:00 joining us. Thank you very much for having me. Do you do you think it's weird to be with a competitor on a podcast? What was what was your first thought when I asked in the beginning? It was uh when when I actually got the invitation I was like okay so weird. What's he going to do? He's going to try to get some insights. Um uh but then uh no no look I mean at the end of the day competition is good as long as it's healthy and we make each other better and um you know despite on on how many
• 44:00 - 44:30 prop firms there are now comparing to when we started and despite how many brokers there are right now um at least in the country that I am based uh you know it's a it's a small big community. So, everybody knows everyone. Yeah. Uh they've been around for for many years and uh more or less we know what we have to know up to the level that we have to need to or can
• 44:30 - 45:00 know things. So, I'm very happy that you invited me. Um maybe I mean um we'll do this uh also in fun pro in the other side of the world not here. Um so you will be our guest. Um thank you very much. It was a very very nice conversation and I'm I'm very happy that I accepted the the invitation. Okay. Yeah. And uh one more thing that I can mention about competition that I and this was something that I told James when we were having conversation at the beginning when I started like uh
• 45:00 - 45:30 providing my advices and opinions. Um this industry like um it's not really a competition competition. Why? Because there is no limit for the trader. you're only allowed to trade with three firms or two firms. So I think that companies that are truly working hard on providing really good service to the traders shouldn't be worried about competition. But the uh because as I said we can have accounts with as many prop firms as we want. So if the service is great, if
• 45:30 - 46:00 everything is great, if the experience is great, traders will go for the firms that are providing the best service. So there is no nothing to worry about and there is no competition. There's no scarcity in in the proper space. It's it's abundance if you Yeah, it's it it's just abundance. You can just get the the traders that are good will go with the companies that are providing good service. So the only thing that companies should care about is um doing their job properly. I agree. Me too. All right. Thanks. Thank you for the great
• 46:00 - 46:30 conversation. Thank you everybody for watching. I hope you learned something new. Have a good time trading with Piparm and Funpro. All right. Thank you guys. Bye. Bye.