‘Americans have always been susceptible to con men’: NYT’s Maureen Dowd torches Trump

Summary

Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd reflects on her decades-long experience interviewing Donald Trump and other notable personalities in her new book, 'Notorious.' The discussion delves into Trump's essence as a political figure and a cultural influencer, touching on his 'mad king' persona and his unique approach to governance, often reminiscent of a con man. Dowd also explores the dynamics within Washington, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley, highlighting the transactional nature and larger-than-life figures in these arenas. The conversation sheds light on the motivations and psychological underpinnings of leaders like Trump and Elon Musk, the latter being scrutinized for his brand-building endeavors alongside technological advancements.

Highlights

• Maureen Dowd's experience spans interviews with Trump and other notable figures, now chronicled in her book 'Notorious.'📝
• Dowd describes Trump as a 'mad king,' illustrating his disruptive impact on politics and global relations.👑
• The discussion reveals Americans' susceptibility to conmen and how Trump embodies this archetype.🃏
• Insights into Washington, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley highlight the recurring themes of power and media influence.🎬
• Elon Musk is discussed in terms of his dual interests in brand-building and technological innovation.🚀

Key Takeaways

• Maureen Dowd's new book, 'Notorious,' explores the lives of intriguing and influential figures.📚
• Donald Trump is compared to a 'mad king' and con man, showcasing his chaotic yet captivating influence.👑
• The interview touches on the interplay between politics, culture, and technology, with figures like Trump and Musk in the spotlight.🔍
• Dowd's insights provide a window into the personal motivations and broader impacts of these prominent leaders.🤔

Overview

In an engaging discussion with MSNBC, Maureen Dowd shares insights from her book 'Notorious,' which profiles fascinating and powerful figures she has encountered, including Donald Trump. Dowd characterizes Trump as a 'mad king,' capable of destabilizing political and economic systems, while simultaneously drawing significant public attention.

The conversation uncovers the public's penchant for charismatic con men, with Trump being a prime example. Amidst governance chaos, Dowd notes, he has managed to maintain his support base and headlines. This paradox is further explored through his interactions and relationships, such as those within his administration and with figures like Elon Musk.

Dowd provides a thought-provoking view on the interconnected worlds of politics, showbiz, and technology. She draws parallels between Washington, Hollywood, and Silicon Valley as havens for larger-than-life personalities who are united by their pursuit of power, influence, and, sometimes, chaos. Elon Musk is highlighted for his role as a tech disruptor and brand mastermind, embodying traits similar to those found in historical figures of renown.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction of Guest and Book The chapter introduces the special guest, Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd. Known for interviewing prominent figures like Donald Trump, among others, Dowd is discussed in the context of her new book, 'Notorious', which explores notable and infamous personalities through her writings. Despite sharing a name with the rapper Notorious B.I.G., the book focuses on different themes. The host expresses appreciation for Dowd's appearance on the show.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Discussion on Trump's Political Essence This chapter titled 'Discussion on Trump's Political Essence' delves into the contrast between the reactions of knowledgeable individuals who continue to express surprise at Trump's actions and governance style, despite his well-established persona. The conversation starts with the current news before transitioning to a detailed discussion about the political and social implications of Trump's leadership. The speaker uses the analogy of being governed by an id to describe Trump's instinct-driven approach.
• 01:00 - 02:00: Trump's Multifaceted Impact The chapter titled 'Trump's Multifaceted Impact' discusses the essence of Trump's character and his influence on politics and policy. It portrays him as a 'mad king' who is capable of multitasking negatively, simultaneously impacting the economy and international relations.
• 02:00 - 03:00: The Con Man Analogy The chapter titled 'The Con Man Analogy' discusses the impact of a certain leader's actions on international relations and domestic symbols of governance. The leader is criticized for damaging alliances, degrading the prestige of historically significant locations like the Kennedy Center and the Oval Office, which are likened to Caesar's Palace. However, the chapter also acknowledges the leader's ability to multitask, as evidenced by an executive order he issued concerning water pressure in showers, prompting a reflection on what these actions reveal about society.
• 03:00 - 04:00: Interviews and Public Figures The chapter titled 'Interviews and Public Figures' discusses the nature of the market's reaction to deception, drawing a parallel to the moment in movies and literature when a conman is exposed. The speaker reflects on the susceptibility of Americans to conmen and describes a scenario where the realization of being conned causes widespread panic, especially in the stock market, which is one of the few concerns valued by the conman discussed.
• 04:00 - 05:00: Trump's Trade Policies and Consequences The chapter discusses Trump's trade policies and their consequences, highlighting the teams he assembled and their impacts. It references the approach of a New York Times columnist known for engaging in in-depth interviews. The narrative indicates ongoing dialogues with Trump figures, illustrating the influence and outcomes of Trump's policies. Additionally, it mentions Navarro, a former Trump official who faced legal repercussions, underscoring the controversial and public nature of these policy implementations.
• 05:00 - 06:00: Exploration of Larger-than-life Figures The chapter titled 'Exploration of Larger-than-life Figures' discusses the dramatic dynamics involving a White House official who initially received a prestigious position. However, the individual later became a scapegoat in a conflict involving Elon Musk, known for his contentious online presence and personal attacks. Differing views on trade and tariffs are highlighted as central to the disagreement. The White House downplays the conflict by dismissing it as typical disagreements often seen between strong personalities, using the phrase 'boys will be boys' to describe the situation.
• 06:00 - 07:00: Silicon Valley's Aspirations The chapter delves into the public clashes among prominent billionaires, often associated with the MAGA movement. Notable incidents include Elon Musk's insult towards Navaro, comparing him humorously to bricks, for which he later offered a mock apology. The chapter highlights the emotional reactions from figures like Ken Langon and Bill Aman amid these disputes. It paints a picture of a coalition at odds, showcasing both personal conflicts and the broader implications of such high-profile disagreements.
• 07:00 - 08:00: Skepticism on Silicon Valley's Intentions The chapter titled 'Skepticism on Silicon Valley's Intentions' delves into the entrenched positions and intentions of influential figures like Trump, particularly his long-standing stance on terror. It challenges the authenticity and motivations of these figures by suggesting that their actions are more about personal gain than genuine concern. This skepticism is paralleled in the attitudes towards Silicon Valley's power players, questioning whether their outward claims of innovation and progress are genuine or merely transactional and self-serving. The narrative encourages a critical examination of what we are told in fields like political science or law, urging readers to scrutinize the rules and motivations behind actions in both the political sphere and the tech industry.
• 08:00 - 09:00: Musk, AI, and Future Concerns The chapter titled 'Musk, AI, and Future Concerns' delves into the exploration of psychological and potentially 'sinful' motivations within powerful figures, as opposed to the typical narratives often propagated regarding how Washington operates. The discussion highlights a focus on unearthing deeper underlying drives beyond the standard political storytelling, possibly aligning with large-than-life, Shakespearean character archetypes.

‘Americans have always been susceptible to con men’: NYT’s Maureen Dowd torches Trump Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 pulitzer surprisewinning New York Times columnist Moren Dow is our special guest she's actually interviewed Donald Trump for decades as well as presidents actors cultural icons and more her new book Notorious is not about Notorious B.I the acclaimed Brooklyn rapper although they share that name uh it draws on her writing and profiles of people who are interesting are powerful or are of course notorious uh beloved by so many readers and viewers your first time on the beat we've asked before you're now here i'm happy to have you thanks for
• 00:30 - 01:00 being here thank you Arie great to have you very nervous well it's okay to people I people will find that charming that you're nervous after being so established the poster doesn't wipe it away um let's start with the news and then go to the book uh I mentioned this contrast smart people who seem shocked after this much time what do what do you think of that and how does that affect the the sort of market reaction i don't know you know with Trump it's like being governed by an id i mean his
• 01:00 - 01:30 biographers always said he would get distilled to his essence and I think he's at his essence and how do you view his essence politically and in these policy choices yeah he's the mad king the high chair king he's Well you can't say he can't he uh can't multitask because right now he was um wrecking the economy he has wrecked our relationship
• 01:30 - 02:00 with our allies he has uh wrecked our standing in the world he has wrecked the Kennedy Center he has wrecked the Oval Office it looks like Caesar's Palace now but today he issued an executive order making sure that the water pressure in showers was right so the guy can do many things at once what does it tell us about us
• 02:00 - 02:30 well you know Americans have always been susceptible to conmen certainly and uh you know it was funny because today was the day when it's like that scene in movies and literature where the con man you realize the con man really doesn't have the product you know you're conned and that's when the market freaked out and the market is one of the few things he cares about so he had to backtrack
• 02:30 - 03:00 yeah and you see it in the teams he's put together and you're around this as a longtime New York Times uh columnist and you are the type of columnist who actually interviews people and talks to people and there's different ways to do it and uh we do this interview show i've had a lot of Trump figures on um I still do i had his former DHS chief last week and the invites are open to the White House and there is something really striking about what he gets out of people even with all of this done in public and Navarro who literally went to prison on a Trumpfueled agenda or crusade um is now
• 03:00 - 03:30 rewarded with a White House position but then very unrewarded by becoming the sort of fall guy for all of this with Elon Musk if ever there were a more powerful workplace vendetta uh just dragging him online and the personal insults and then here's how the White House tried to explain it take a look look these are obviously two individuals who have very different views on trade and on tariffs um boys will be boys and
• 03:30 - 04:00 we will let their public sparring continue it was entertaining to see the MAGA coalition of billionaires begin to fracture and go after each other and Elon called Navaro uh dumb as a bag of bricks and then he apologized to Bricks he apologized to Bricks that's correct so um and then Ken Langon freaked out and Bill Aman freaked out uh but you know as you say didn't they
• 04:00 - 04:30 see it coming i mean Trump's position on terror that's one of the few positions he has had his whole career so you know but with conmen it's it's a yearning in you for something so they have their reasons they're all transactional and they chose him yeah you say reasons we are told if you go to study political science or you go to law school we're told a lot about rules and
• 04:30 - 05:00 policy and this sort of narrative about how Washington works uh you are a chronicler of this among other things um tell me about your book and these figures it seems that you're trying to peel past that and find what you just referenced psychology the the other what some call sinful motivations that it's not the other story that we're so often told yeah well I am drawn to larger than life Shakespearean figures uh although
• 05:00 - 05:30 Trump is kind of more PT Barnum than Shakespearean but um and for my whole career I have covered politics but also culture and so uh Washington and Hollywood always struck me as kind of mere cities because they're about um you know uh people who are able to win sorcel and winning and losing and one is box office and one is approval
• 05:30 - 06:00 ratings and then I added in Silicon Valley in the last few years and that's the same you know they have these larger than life figures who are controlling all our communications and to a certain extent our emotions you know Silicon Valley guys and so they are so important and then they are obsessed with clicks so you know the three areas are
• 06:00 - 06:30 reflecting off of each other and in Silicon Valley they have been trying to sell i don't think it's working lately but for many years sell the idea that it's not really money that they're interested in it's rewiring and disrupting the world as we know it for what is presumably a better more connected place um and you were skeptical of that early on this is from a piece in the book about Musk back years ago where and he has done and I've said on air he's done plenty of
• 06:30 - 07:00 interesting things uh and created capital but you say some in the valley argue Musk is interested less in saving the world was something he talked a lot about than buffing his brand they gripe his epic good versus evil storyline is about luring talent at discount rates incubating his own AI software for his cars and rockets well when I interviewed uh Elon Musk uh the first time in 2017 he didn't like Trump although I do another interview with Peter Teal where he predicts they will get together
• 07:00 - 07:30 because they're grandmaster salesmen and larger than life figures but when I interviewed the Silicon Valley guys in 2017 they were not paying attention to Washington at all because they were busy creating a new species i mean they are creating AI which will very soon you know begin it's in its teenage years but very soon it will become adult and then that was what I interviewed Elon about because he called it summoning the demon
• 07:30 - 08:00 and he thought we should have a kill switch and he formed Open AI with Sam Alman to make sure humanity had advocates that and that's why he wanted to go to Mars but then someone explained to him that AI could follow him to Mars so we couldn't really get away from killer AI