Unveiling the Hidden Hazards of Wireless Technology

Antibiotic-Resistant Bacteria from WiFi: Prof Olle Johansson

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In an enlightening interview with Professor Olle Johansson, a renowned Swedish neuroscientist, the potential dangers of electromagnetic fields (EMFs) from Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and cellular technologies are discussed. Johansson, known for his pioneering research on EMFs, delves into the biological impacts of these man-made fields, highlighting their massive deviation from natural electromagnetic levels. He shares insights into how these fields might contribute to antibiotic resistance in bacteria, while emphasizing the lack of safe exposure levels and the necessity for precautionary measures. Through compelling anecdotes and scientific observations, Johansson urges a reevaluation of our wireless technology use, advocating for more awareness and safer alternatives.

Highlights

Professor Olle Johansson shares his concerns about the colossal difference between natural and man-made electromagnetic fields. 🌍
EMFs from wireless technology are linked to potential health risks, including antibiotic resistance. 🧬
Public authorities and health organizations have yet to fully acknowledge these risks. 🏛️
Johansson calls for the public to educate themselves and adopt a precautionary approach. 📖
The story of technology's impact on our health, with a glimpse into the future of safer tech. 🚀

Key Takeaways

Wireless technology exposes us to electromagnetic fields vastly greater than natural levels. 📡
EMFs may contribute to antibiotic-resistant bacteria, posing a massive health risk. 🦠
Current safety standards for wireless radiation may not adequately protect public health. ⚠️
Public awareness and education on the risks of EMF exposure are crucial. 📚
Precautionary measures and safer technology alternatives are urgently needed. 🔄

Overview

In this riveting discussion, Professor Olle Johansson takes us through a critical journey into the unseen world of electromagnetic fields generated by our everyday wireless devices. From mobile phones to smart meters, the radiation emitted by these devices dwarfs natural electromagnetic fields by unimaginable magnitudes. Johansson paints a striking picture of the pervasive nature of these exposures in our modern world, likening their potential impact to turning a thermostat up by quintillion degrees. 🥵

The dialogue progresses into the dire consequences these fields could have on biological life, emphasizing the alarming rise of antibiotic-resistant bacteria as a pressing issue. Johansson draws upon decades of research and global scientific consensus to illustrate how EMFs might be facilitating these resistance mechanisms in bacteria, thus enhancing their survival against antibiotics—a looming public health crisis. 🌡️

Johansson further explores the theme of public awareness, urging individuals and policymakers alike to face these challenges head-on. He advocates for improved education on EMF risks and the adoption of the precautionary principle—better safe than sorry. Johansson's hope lies in innovative solutions, whether technological advancements or returning to safer past technologies, ensuring a healthier coexistence with our tech-heavy society. 🌐

Chapters

00:00 - 00:30: Introduction The chapter 'Introduction' presents a scenario imagining the afterlife, specifically a conversation with St. Peter at the pearly gates. The speaker reflects on the importance of speaking up and using one's voice for what they believe in, as they mention not wanting to be questioned on their silence, like Arthur Fenberg. The emphasis is on doing one's best and being able to claim that, regardless of the outcome or success. The narrative suggests that trying one's best is a significant measure of one's life.
00:30 - 02:00: Guest Introduction: Prof. Olle Johansson In this chapter, the narrative introduces Professor Ola Johansson, a renowned Swedish neuroscientist and former associate professor at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. The focus is on his internationally acclaimed research on the biological effects of electromagnetic fields (EMF) and their potential implications for human health. Professor Johansson's work has significantly contributed to discussions on electrohypersensitivity and the broader spectrum of EMF exposure effects.
02:00 - 15:00: Discussion on EMF and Safe Exposure Levels Dr. Jansen, a proponent of EMF (Electromagnetic Fields) awareness, participates in public discussions to promote understanding and precautions regarding EMF exposure. In a guest appearance, he expresses gratitude and prepares to address various questions posed to him on the topic.
15:00 - 20:30: Physiological Effects and Regulations of EMF This chapter explores the physiological effects and regulations of electromagnetic fields (EMF). It appears to be aimed at an audience comprised of individuals who are sensitive to electrical fields, some of whom have dealt with these issues for a substantial period, like 40 years in one mentioned case. Other audience members are in the process of establishing a correlation between their exposure to various types of electromagnetic fields and their health. Additionally, there is a segment of the audience that remains skeptical about the physiological impacts of EMF, looking to further understand if there are such effects and what regulatory measures might be in place for protection.
20:30 - 25:30: Exposures and Effects on Human Health The chapter titled 'Exposures and Effects on Human Health' focuses on the precautionary approach people take towards radio frequency radiation used in wireless communication. The transcript suggests that individuals are eager to reduce exposures for themselves and their families until it is proven harmless. The chapter begins with questions, hinting at a dialogue or inquiry into the safety levels of such exposures, specifically questioning if there is a known safe level of exposure to radio frequency radiation like that used in Wi-Fi and similar technologies.
25:30 - 35:00: Insurance Companies and Their Stance on EMF The chapter explores the stance of insurance companies on EMF exposure, particularly from devices like Bluetooth and cell phones. It raises questions about the safe levels of EMF exposure and suggests that this is an important issue. The chapter also references a 1997 trade union meeting in Stockholm where a hygienic safety exposure level was proposed.
35:00 - 61:00: Electrohypersensitivity as a Functional Impairment The chapter discusses the concept of electrohypersensitivity being recognized as a functional impairment. It reflects on the stringent exposure regulations in Sweden, suggesting similar regulations should apply to man-made electromagnetic fields. The argument is made for setting exposure limits to match natural background levels. A strong opposing viewpoint is also acknowledged in the discussion.
61:00 - 69:00: Advice for Electrohypersensitive Individuals In this chapter titled 'Advice for Electrohypersensitive Individuals,' there is a poignant moment during a meeting where someone acknowledges the typically untrustworthy Yuansson but concedes that in this instance, he is completely right. The speaker expresses feeling honored by this acknowledgment, especially regarding the comparison of exposure levels, emphasizing that natural fields exhibit significantly lower levels in contrast to other exposures.
69:00 - 119:00: Scientific Studies and Effects on Bacteria The chapter discusses the impact of electromagnetic exposure on bacteria, emphasizing the significant increase in exposure due to modern technology, specifically third-generation mobile phones. It highlights the transition from previous generations of technology to the current fourth and fifth generations and implies a need to consider natural background exposure levels when assessing the additional effects of these technologies.
119:00 - 129:30: Concluding Remarks In 'Concluding Remarks,' the speaker emphasizes the staggering scale of third-generation emissions, illustrating it with an analogy. They explain that these emissions are a quintillion times higher than natural background levels, equating this to imagining a quintillion-fold increase in temperature. Such an unthinkable rise would not only consume towns in flames but could potentially engulf the entire planet. This analogy underscores the catastrophic potential of these emissions, driving home the importance of addressing this environmental challenge.

Antibiotic-Resistant Bacteria from WiFi: Prof Olle Johansson Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 when you die maybe there is a pearly gate and a St. Peter and I don't want him to tell me that why didn't you speak up you saw and understood like Arthur Fenberg why didn't you speak up and I did speak up so maybe he will say you did your best you failed but you did your best anyhow you know that's enough for me my guest
00:30 - 01:00 today is professor Ola Johansson He's a Swedish neuroscientist and a former associate professor at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. He's internationally recognized for his pioneering research on the biological effects of electromagnetic fields, including their potential impact on human health. His work has contributed to the scientific discourse on electrohypersensitivity and the broader implications of EMF exposure. In
01:00 - 01:30 addition to his academic contributions, Jansen has been an advocate for increased awareness and precaution regarding EMF exposure. He's participated in numerous public lectures and discussions on the subject. Welcome and thank you for being here. Well, thank you very much. It's a great honor to appear on this program. Thank you. I have a number of questions here today and just wanted to mention briefly my
01:30 - 02:00 audience is generally composed of people like myself who are electrically sensitive and have been um in my case for some time 40 years. Uh others are just learning um just establishing a correlation between their exposure to different types of u fields and their health. Uh the other half of my uh followers are maybe not completely sold on the physiologic effects of EMF and that's fine. They want to take a
02:00 - 02:30 precautionary approach however until or unless it is ever proven to be without harm. They want to reduce exposures for themselves or their families. And I've got a number of questions. So with your permission, we'll we'll get right into it with the first question. Is there a known safe level of exposure to the type of radio frequency radiation that is used for wireless communication such as Wi-Fi and
02:30 - 03:00 Bluetooth and cell phones? Is there a known safe level of exposure? And then perhaps you could also compare and contrast that with the types of fields that exist in nature. This is a very important question. 1997 at the trade union meeting here in Stockholm, I proposed that we should have a hygienic safety exposure level
03:00 - 03:30 because in Sweden we have such hyenic lawabiding uh exposure levels for anything. Um, and I said we should have it also for uh the man-made artificial electromagnetic fields. And I said the only level we can uh put our um names behind would be the natural background. And then I remember I had a very strong opponent uh who was
03:30 - 04:00 present at that meeting. And then he said the following. Well, generally I never trust what Yuansson says, but this time he is completely right. Oh my. And I was of course very honored by that uh comment and he pointed to that the natural fields they are so much much much lower when we look on um exposure levels. And just to immediately compare
04:00 - 04:30 if you can imagine that you remove everything where you are including power lines, radio, television, everything that is electromagnetic exposure and only keep the third generation mobile telefan and ask yourself how much more of such exposure do I get compared to natural background and then the increase of only the third generation And you remember we are already now in the fourth and fifth generation. But the
04:30 - 05:00 third generation is a quintilion times higher than the comparable natural background. And that's a one with 18 zeros behind. And I often tell people imagine that tomorrow the outdoor temperature would have increased a quintilion times. then not only your town or city would disappear in flames but the entire planet would go up
05:00 - 05:30 immediately like the head on a match. uh so these increases compared to natural background I don't know the proper English word are they uh colossal are they astronomical are they biblical even I mean they are huge huge but since we can't see uh the radio frequent fields or whatever fields we're talking about except uh visible light then we don't see the problems if you tell me like
05:30 - 06:00 that and um uh that that's also interesting to compare because uh even the third generation and if especially if we put everything back um uh they are also artificial in the sense that that kind of fields have never existed here before. So mathematically the increase is actually infinite. Uh it's more than a quintilion times. And the lowest exposure increase that we can measure is from power
06:00 - 06:30 frequent magnetic fields which is a long name for household electricity. And the increase compared to natural 50 60 Hz fields is only 100 million times. So that's a small increase. Um um and and of course it's also huge when you really think about it and you mentioned the power line frequencies. When I think of the natural
06:30 - 07:00 electromagnetic environment of the earth, the surface of the earth itself is negatively charged and the ionosphere is positively charged and we live in this uh direct current voltage gradient that's vertically oriented. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And if you're in a normal home, what's considered a normal home today, you have wiring that goes in three different directions, left to right, in and out, and up and down. And they're not direct current fields.
07:00 - 07:30 They're alternating current. So they yeah, they switch back and forth in polarity uh many many times a second. Is is that is that right to think about it that way? Well, it is. And uh also uh in the wiring at least in Sweden we have a lot of what we call electromagnetic disturbances. Sometimes you see the word dirty electricity ranging all the way up to uh the high radio frequency signals.
07:30 - 08:00 And also here uh the power lines are often used for something called power line communication where you use the lines using radio frequency signals to transport information or get information like from so-called smart meters etc. So there is a mixture of different frequencies from the extremely low frequent ones to very low frequent ones and upwards upwards upwards to radio
08:00 - 08:30 frequent and very high radio frequenc signals and none of this was around like 150 years ago. Nothing of this. Uh so it is a dramatic change as you say and the fields the geomagnetic fields they are static they are strong uh here in Sweden for instance we measure around 50 microteslas but they are static and of course any species that couldn't
08:30 - 09:00 withstand that exposure they are gone. So all the remaining species have adapted to this geomagnetic fields also from outer space. Uh we get for instance 50 hertz signals and other type of radio frequency signals but they are so extremely weak. You need colossal antennas like a jawle bank and so on you know uh to even pick them up and you
09:00 - 09:30 need amplifiers in the electronics etc because they are so very very weak and again all the species that are left on the planet including humans we have adapted to this and then suddenly for commercial and very fun reasons you switch on like this radio television you have mobile phones you have wireless internet etc etc etc and the question is basically can we take all of this and at these colossal exposure
09:30 - 10:00 levels yes and um there there are some fundamental differences in terms of polarity or in terms of coherence in terms of pulse modulation so none of the sources that I'm aware of had have any of those characteristics and those make exactly this type of synthetic EMF um really really new. So you mentioned prior to 150 years ago we had none of
10:00 - 10:30 this. Is there anything that happened from a noteworthy perspective physiologically to our species 150 years ago when I believe you're referring to the telegraph uh began to be operated? Were there any any effects? Well, the there was quite a number of effects actually reported by people that started to use uh as you say the telegraphic systems or the early radio systems and whatn not. Uh and they
10:30 - 11:00 reported headaches for instance, nausea, h they had problems with memory capacity, concentration capacity and so on. And at first people were looked upon as just imagining this but uh rather soon uh medical doctors and scientists saw and realized that it could be an effect of the very new electromagnetic field exposures and more and more regulations came about and for instance as you know for radar from the beginning
11:00 - 11:30 you can expose yourself to any radar exposure if you wanted to but today it's extremely shield shielded and safety precautions uh in civil uh aviation for instance as in military aviation or on ships and boats and wherever you use it. H so that has changed um a lot I would say and maybe in the future and I often think about when I go to an ex
11:30 - 12:00 exhibition here on the west coast uh where you have a wrist watch that was painted with radioactive paint so it glow in the dark and they have one of these and it is in a lead box and you can take a geiger counter and listen to the radiation. Now we are talking about ionizing radiation from an isotope. Um and when I stand there and uh do these
12:00 - 12:30 measurements, I often think hm maybe in 50 years time they will have another case next to it with a cell phone in it. H and you would measure the radio frequent fields and you would sort of smile and say, "Oh, they didn't understand better." you know h and we are at that point here maybe we don't understand better and we allow ourselves our children grandchildren to be exposed
12:30 - 13:00 and not to be forgotten of course dogs cats wildlife livestock plants bacteria whatever everything is exposed and maybe it isn't the best of ideas to do it and u but at the same time I would be very happy uh to sort of raise the green flag and tell everyone it's safe. Uh but today that would mean that tens of thousands of scientific peerrebased
13:00 - 13:30 um articles in journal scientific journals all would have to be wrong at the same time. And that has never happened before in science history, you know. Hopefully it is all wrong and that all these gadgets are safe. But um so far we haven't been able to show that there are safe and um therefore we have always recommend the precautionary principle uh
13:30 - 14:00 better safe than sorry. And some have actually listened very carefully to me and others. And among them are for instance the manufacturers of these type of gadgets uh the operators uh the World Health Organization, the radiation protection authorities and above all all the world's insurance and reinsurance companies they do not take any form of responsibility for these safe gadgets.
14:00 - 14:30 Um and in a way that's more telling than any test tube experiment or whatever I could show to you. Uh because they have drawn a conclusion and I remember 2002 in London I was present at the conference and at the conference and it was quite public actually and uh it was related in newspapers afterwards. Uh and at the conference you had for instance Lloyds UK uh which is the biggest
14:30 - 15:00 insurance dealer and from Switzerland you have Swiss RIA which is the biggest reinsurance dealer and from Sweden was a small company called ifcandia etc etc and every such insurance company said that for them the question wasn't whether the cell phone radiation was dangerous or not. They knew it was dangerous. The question was only in the future who is going to pay for this
15:00 - 15:30 party when people start craving compensations for illnesses, maybe tumors, maybe uh fertility defects etc. And they didn't want to pay for that and they were 100% open about it. Uh they didn't try to hide this fact. There is a uh a website cellular phone task force and Arthur Fenberg maintained
15:30 - 16:00 that for a number of years. He has an excellent I think um packet that you can download called the radio wave packet and it gives uh certain research that's been shown just infantessible amounts of for example RF radiation can have an effect on bacteria and um many more things like the u disturbance of the bloodb brain barrier and the ability to modulate the heart either increasing the decreasing
16:00 - 16:30 or in some cases stopping and some of these things have been known for for more than 50 years. Um there's also something interesting in that sorry go ahead. Yeah, I mean you mentioned for instance leakage of the bloodb brain barrier and since I am by trade a neuroscientist I can tell you you don't want to have any leakage of the bloodb brain barrier but um for instance a
16:30 - 17:00 group in Lund here in Sweden they showed that you only needed one minute of uh cell phone radiation exposure to your head and at an exposure exposure level that was 5,000 times below what you are supposed to withstand. H so it was a very weak exposure compared to the colossal levels we talked about before and after one minute you got the dramatic leakage of the bloodb brain
17:00 - 17:30 barrier and to me to be honest um I'm surprised that um public authorities haven't reacted to this uh like health authorities radiation protection boards governments parliaments etc. But of course again uh the insurance and reinsurance companies they reacted very early realizing that oh no no way we can take any form of responsibility for these type of exposures. Um and the sad
17:30 - 18:00 thing is that when you go to a shop like here in Stockholm uh you buy a cell phone the person in the shop doesn't tell you anything about this. There is no uh radio wave packet uh that you get along with science and questions and so on. They just sell it to you as being safe. And I have kind of amused myself by interviewing people in these shops, you know, asking them about risks and danger. And I see they don't even
18:00 - 18:30 understand the question. It's not on their chart at all. Uh so they say, "Oh, it's safe. Why why shouldn't it be safe? uh and then I try to um tell them a little bit but uh uh it's not always that they are so very interested and may I also tell you a story I think it's like two years ago I was here in Stockholm I was riding a commuter train and when I came aboard there was a very
18:30 - 19:00 posh lady uh around 60 65 years of age and she was fiddling around with her smartphone and since no one knows who I Um, I always take the possibility to educate and inform. So I said to her, "Oh, sorry. Do you know uh that the World Health Organization uh in Geneva in Switzerland has actually cancer classified the radiation your phone is using to communicate with the
19:00 - 19:30 antennas, the base stations and get information back." and and she she got very angry with me and told me in Swedish some rather bad words, you know, I could basically go to a hot place and etc, etc. And I said, "Please, please stop, stop. I hear you and I I respect your reaction, but you have a smartphone. Couldn't you please Google WH brain tumor and mobile phone
19:30 - 20:00 radiation?" And she did. and went silent for like a minute or two. And then slowly she looked up at me and said, "Oh, I'm so sorry, sir. You were completely right. It's all here." And now I get very angry again. She said, "Not at you, but at our Swedish Parliament, government, health authorities. You see, I am not only a mother, I'm also a grandmother. and a week ago I bought a new smartphone for
20:00 - 20:30 my 14y year old granddaughter and now I regret it. Why didn't the government and parliament tell me what you are telling me now? Um and at that time uh during our journey I had to leave the train. So I don't know how it sort of ended but hopefully she continued being angry and continued maybe addressing these questions with local as well as national politicians, health officers etc.
20:30 - 21:00 because it is important to draw conclusions from this as the manufacturers, the operators, the insurance companies and so on already did more than 25 years ago. Uh so I would say the general public are kind of kept in a legal darkness and they will wake up of course in the future when someone craves compensation because of something leakage of the blind bloodb
21:00 - 21:30 brain barrier whatever and realizing that hm oh the players abandoned the ship more than 25 30 years ago. uh so I need to address my complaints to the government and parliament and with all due respect we know how successful that will be you know so yes it sounds like um the most effect was what you had on that woman in the public transport reaching people one at a time and they
21:30 - 22:00 are resistant I I I do find that as well so so that's a wonderful success with that I say as you said before you Yeah, I say as you said before, I don't want to impose any uh ideas or conclusions or whatever. I always tell people do your own homework. Read uh you have a laptop or a stationary computer or a cell phone or whatever with Google, start there, compare, think, think
22:00 - 22:30 again, think more and then draw a conclusion for yourself and for your family and for your loved ones. and start there, you know, and I think if I'm not mistaken, this um blood brain barrier compromise has been known since at least I think it was the 1980s with u an American biologist Alan Frey. Is that right? Or was it known before then? Yeah, that's correct. Even before that 1977,
22:30 - 23:00 uh he came to Finland and he lectured together with other scientists about that you can use microwaves, the same type of microwaves you use for cell phone communication to open this mysterious bloodb brain barrier. And 1977, there were no such systems around. No one understood that Finland soon would change its name into Nokia lamp
23:00 - 23:30 with Nokia uh consumer electronics being the big company in Finland. But that was years uh to come and uh so no one sort of stood up and said oh we we can't go into that adventure business adventure you know that came later on but it's interesting to see that of course experts from for instance uh the insurance industry they have their ears to the ground listening for warning signals that could be later on colossal
23:30 - 24:00 threats to their economy and in this case they did listen very well and they have listened to me as well you know so we'll leave we'll leave behind the the damage to the bloodb brain barrier and how long that that's been known I'll make a few parting shots and you can correct me if I'm wrong but it was then proven u by researchers a couple of decades after that that the kind of pulse modulated radio frequency radiation uh could actually do a much
24:00 - 24:30 more effective job than the regular uh what you would have in in your microwave oven. All of which leads me horrified when I see young people putting wireless earbuds in their ears because I don't think those are tested, correct me if I'm wrong, to make sure they're not destroying the bloodb brain barrier. Everything you say is completely right indeed. Yes. And I have the same thoughts and reflections as you have every time I see young or old people and
24:30 - 25:00 children as well, you know, with earbuds like this or with other gadgets that they voluntarily and they they love them. Of course, they want to use them, but they expose themselves to something that um a lot of levels of society have turned their back on for decades ago, you know. Yeah. Do you own a cell phone? Uh, I have a stationary phone. Uh, but I don't carry it around. I have no need for any
25:00 - 25:30 mobility. Uh, so no. And I also have this laptop I'm sitting with here. It's also stationary. I don't carry it around. And if you meet me in Stockholm, you will see and identify me very easily. I don't carry these gadgets. And I don't carry my freezer or fridge or vacuum cleaner with me. I don't have the need to vacuum clean out on the streets. And I don't have the need to make any
25:30 - 26:00 phone calls. It's enough sitting here taking all the calls from the stationary phone as everyone used to do before. But I do respect that people well think they need this mobility. Uh but uh I hope that some company and of course I would love if it would be a Swedish company that would come up with tomorrow's green human and environmental friendly technology for
26:00 - 26:30 wireless communication. Uh and so I hope someone will invent this or maybe it's actually impossible. Uh you cannot have these kind of exposures. Uh so maybe tomorrow we will see life on this planet taking steps backwards into older technology but in a new form. So let's see what will happen. Uh so you you said it well about you don't need to take your vacuum cleaner
26:30 - 27:00 with you or other appliances. And what I what I say to people is the only thing this this horrific um radio frequency radiation fog gives us is location independent voice and data and is that worth taking the risk for uh risk for potentially putting our children and our grandchildren at risk as well as uh birds and bees and all of life. So I'll
27:00 - 27:30 just leave that as an editorial comment and I want to ask you you stress I think um before we leave that may I just add that scientists have looked very clearly and and and um neatly into the mobility issue and when people were interviewed the mobility came very very far down on their priority list. Uh so and when you
27:30 - 28:00 see people most of them do not run around uh they actually sit or stand uh and do whatever they need to do. Uh and of course the mobility lies within that you can bring your mental vacuum cleaner you can call it uh on board a train or whatever and still be connected. Uh but um I'm not impressed because if you look around in societies today in Sweden or elsewhere all the old type questions are
28:00 - 28:30 still unsolved. Um so I'm not so very impressed by this computing capacity that people carry around. uh maybe it would be better if they stayed uh and started to think and use the brain. Uh so well this will this will be a bridge too far for many people watching or listening to us. But do we know for a fact that using a
28:30 - 29:00 computer, even one that's wired as opposed to using a wireless, Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, do we know that that has no physiologic effect? Oh, no. On the contrary, uh, of course, any form of computer as we call them like my laptop here is just a bigger version of any type of radio frequent and other uh frequency domains
29:00 - 29:30 uh that you're exposed to. Uh so maybe again you need to come up with other solutions uh for human as well as environmental friendly technologies and that would include every gadget that we would think about including smart meters, baby alarms, um power lines, television sets, radio receivers and transmitters and so on. I mean the list
29:30 - 30:00 is very very long. Uh and um so and and of course these are how should I say these are um possibilities for any smart uh engineer and and business person. Um just imagine to sell all the cell phones once again but in a friendly format or all the um wireless turning back to cabled. Uh I read the mileage for
30:00 - 30:30 instance in an ordinary apartment house. It's just colossal the n number of miles of cables that you would need. And in Sweden we have a company called ABB cables. They would be very happy if we turned um wired again. You know they would be very happy. So there's always an upside to the downside. And um again when people then report that the mobility is not a big issue really there
30:30 - 31:00 are other characters of their cell phone or laptop that is more important. Maybe you can have a future compromise, whatever it will look like. But before arriving at it, I would argue that we still need to go a bit deeper scientifically in studying the effect uh not only on humans but on all the other 8.7 million species that are around on this planet. And um so there is a bit
31:00 - 31:30 more to be done. Uh but others like you mentioned Arthur Fenberg who recently unfortunately left us. Um um he he meant and and I agree that the number of facts we have already on the table is enough for a moratorum and enough to um urge uh the commercial side to come up with other gadgets, other solutions for
31:30 - 32:00 communication. Uh so I I agree with him as well. But also as a scientist I am curious to see a bit more uh regarding the effects at different biological levels. You seem like you've gone out of your way to help a number of electrically sensitive people. You've been doing this for this type of work for for many decades. They probably come and find you, maybe knock
32:00 - 32:30 on your front door sometimes. I don't know. Um yeah they do. Yes. Do they in fact I noticed that you stress that um the sensitivity is a functional disability. Electrosensitiv hypersensitivity is a functional disability. Why do you f why do you stress that? Um well from the beginning and that goes back to the late 70s and early
32:30 - 33:00 80s. Um in the early8s the first um uh subjects were identified and reported uh the first electro-hypersensitive or at that time they were called electrical allergy patients uh came from Norway and the United States but soon you would find them all over the planet. Um and uh in the beginning they were looked upon as some kind of patient um with an
33:00 - 33:30 illness but such an illness they scientists and medical doctors were unable to identify what kind of illness it was and more and more it was realized and I will come back to that but it was realized that they did react to uh the artificial exposures and like here in Sweden the introduction of the personal computers uh which came in the early 80s meant that a number of persons started
33:30 - 34:00 to um describe skin problems, rashes, irritations, pricking pain, swelling, redness, etc. And it's so fascinating because people had got these personal computers and of course they were not so sophisticated as they are today, but they were fun. People loved working with them, you know, and for instance, switchboards, they used them and secretaries got them as word processors
34:00 - 34:30 and so on. And people did not at all tie their um subjective sensations to the gadget. No, no. They looked around where they lived and worked, you know, thinking maybe I have another detergent for my clothes or another soap for my face or I'm stressing, etc., etc., you know, and people were looking really into what was the real culprit and they didn't understand it could maybe be the
34:30 - 35:00 computer. But then people started to notice that in the evening when they got back home and didn't have the computer uh around them any longer, it got slightly better until the morning. When they came back to the work, it was something in the work environment. They couldn't identify it, but it was something there. Also, the weekend they got even much better. And when they had holiday for a few weeks, they were
35:00 - 35:30 really fine, you know. But as soon as they came back to the workplace, sat down by the uh personal computer, started to work, then the problems came, you know, and they started again looking around. But more and more people then also started to look at the computer thinking, could it be this fun, fantastic machine? Is that the one uh that is causing the troubles here? Um and um u then more and more
35:30 - 36:00 um the discussions were concentrated on the actual uh computer. Um and um um and and then the general idea of the functional impairment uh came about and um uh one of the ministers he was actually asked if an electro-hypers sensitive person if he or she should be
36:00 - 36:30 regarded as a normal healthy individual and he said no they are not. they have a lot of problems when they are exposed. And then he was asked do they have an identifiable illness? Uh and he said no they are not having an illness. They are not patients. And in Sweden at least then you only have a third final category namely a disability or functional impairment. And he said yes
36:30 - 37:00 that is exactly what this is about. And um the national and international handicap laws and regulations apply to 100% to electrohypersensitive people without any exceptions. And from then on people with electrohypersensitivity they were identified as having a functional impairment. And remember nowadays the term has changed. Uh so now it's called
37:00 - 37:30 the functional variation and so on. there are other terms to it. Um and um that kind of also eased uh the situation for the electrohypers sensitive but also for other categories like medical doctors because they didn't have to search for an illness that wasn't there. uh and I always recommended that those days I said to people that if you need to go to a medical doctor don't tell
37:30 - 38:00 them that you suspect that the computer uh is causing this problem that the computer screen is causing this just tell them I have these symptoms and you please dear doctor you tell me what kind of illness I have and um uh the medical doctors couldn't they they tried you and they looked in all their textbooks and they were thinking a thing but no it wasn't any uh classical uh illness like
38:00 - 38:30 dermatological illness and so on. Some people started to talk about the electrohyper sensitive people and that was in the early days uh that they were mentally deranged or they were imagining things and um a lot of sort of explanation Pavlovian conditioning and then finally they arrived at a very interesting um explanation namely that it's actually
38:30 - 39:00 your fault because when you do an interview or write an article or a television program or radio program then people start to think oh maybe I'm a bit um also electro-hypersensitive and that is called a mass media driven psychosis and even I I remember I thought hm interesting and since I'm a scientist I also thought well that's easy uh to uh control uh to tech. And
39:00 - 39:30 instead of taking humans, we took rats and exposed them exactly the same. And to make a long story short, in spite of the facts that rats don't listen to radio, they don't watch television, they don't read newspapers, they still got the same cellular and molecular reaction patterns as the electrohypersensitive people. So that completely ruled out the mass media
39:30 - 40:00 psychosis. Uh but you see there have been a lot of um homecooked explanations trying to get rid of these uh people you know but uh since uh uh the year 2000 they are very officially recognized as a functional impairment and they are protected by the United Nations special human rights acts for people with functional impairments.
40:00 - 40:30 So it's not uh well neither one of us are medical doctors and we don't give uh health care or medical advice I'm sure but uh with regard to the people that you've met and and the situations you're talking about with this functional disability is there anything other than avoidance that um that helps people no uh up to today well I will come back to that but First let me say that avoidance
40:30 - 41:00 in the form of distance to the exposure source or shielding yourself or both accessibility measures sorry or removing the source of course uh but uh most often the sources are not easily removed like base station for telecom communication and so on uh but you're right if you can remove
41:00 - 41:30 it and people do that of course but distance and or shielding then of course people and and I have had many many discussions very interesting regarding your general lifestyle factors um if you drink a lot of alcohol and use a lot of uh drugs and um you smoke a lot and so on it's a good idea to also remove these these um exposures as well. Uh and maybe
41:30 - 42:00 start looking at what you eat and what you drink uh and try to become a better version of yourself. And many people have very interesting ideas about that. But one has to be honest and say those ideas are more of a well speculative nature or hypothesis. they have not reached the level of theory or even less so being hardcore facts. So I'm always a
42:00 - 42:30 bit hesitant to uh give advice regarding uh your lifestyle factors in general. But for the shielding and the distance or removal definitely yes. Yeah. Avoidance is um it's it's difficult um sometimes because people don't even know what their exposures are or how they can achieve the avoidance or they are still in love with their smartphone or their computer or whatever
42:30 - 43:00 it may be. But um it it just seems to me if we considered this any other type of a poisoning and I don't know whether that's legitimate. You can comment on that. If if we considered it as some type of a poison like a lead poison and you managed to get all the lead out of your body, how much more lead would you take, you know, voluntarily after? So, um, I agree and and that is actually a problem. I meet very often people that
43:00 - 43:30 have done a lot and then they still would expose their baby to a wireless baby alarm and themselves to a laptop and a cell phone and so on and often even not realizing what we are talking about. You know, I remember for instance a nurse at the big Stockholm hospital. So, she was the head nurse of that department and um I had a friend there and we were going to look for a room
43:30 - 44:00 with low background radiation levels. Um and uh we asked her if she knew by um her experience if some of the rooms were more shielded from radiation and she said the following radiation. No, no, no, no. You know, this is a department of hematology. Uh, we don't have any radiation. That's the radiology department where they do X-rays and that kind of things. Uh, no, no. I said, we're talking about the
44:00 - 44:30 nonionizing radiation that your cell phone is using. And then she took her cell phone up and said, "Ah, I always wonder how they work." she didn't understand how they communicated with the and in this case a hidden base station under the roof plates. Um so she couldn't really help us because she didn't understand the technology you know and she was super smart. She did help us later on with a lot of things. Uh but that particular
44:30 - 45:00 thing had not uh sort of been understood by her. Somehow we have to improve our ability to to educate the the medical community because you know when people aren't feeling well, the first place they go is to see a doctor. And as we've already discussed, they're often unable um maybe always unable to draw the conclusion of what the what the problem really is. Well, always is probably too much of a stretch, but yeah, we we must uh figure
45:00 - 45:30 out how to uh solve that problem. But but I um I have noticed in the people that I work with who who seem to be doing the best in recovering their lives, the two characteristics that I see. So if I had a metric, again I'm not a doctor or anything, but if I had two characteristics to look at, I would say you're doing well as a sensitive individual. In other words, you have um
45:30 - 46:00 you're you're practicing avoidance successfully in your life. If your resilience, your recovery after exposure is decreasing or improving, in other words, the time to recovery is less and your sensitivity is decreasing, meaning that you're able to withstand tolerant uh exposures that you were no longer able. What what do you think of this idea?
46:00 - 46:30 No, that sounds very very smart. And what I see is that each electrohypers sensitive person they have their own profile. Some you know go down in the subjective um uh symptoms very shallowly and they also have a short distance to come up to near normal. Some go very deep and therefore it takes a long time, months or even years, sometimes not at all to come back
46:30 - 47:00 to near normality. But the word near normality is very important because it's like a peanut allergy person who of course after some time identifies the culprits and don't eat peanuts in any form. They don't expose themselves to that. But that doesn't mean they are not any longer peanut allergy persons. They are, but they have a um behavioral tolerance. And that's the same with
47:00 - 47:30 electrohypersensitivity. Uh people learn to identify uh environments and situations where they should not go into it. And for me, uh this has been very interesting because and maybe as you say, it's maybe to go a bit far, but I like it. Anyhow, I think that the electro-hypers sensitive people with their avoidance behavior to colossal exposures, they are actually the new normals. Mhm. And
47:30 - 48:00 people like myself being electro hypos sensitive, we are the the unlucky fellows here because maybe we would sit in a situation for years not feeling anything and in the long-term run instead get as we talked about before leakage of the bloodb brain barrier, leakage of the blood testice barrier.
48:00 - 48:30 Ble if you're a woman that is pregnant leakage of the uh blood fetus barrier etc. And you don't feel it in the same way you know uh and you keep on sitting there working or exposing yourself to whatever you have being electrohypo sensitive. So the electrohypers sensitive they are the new normal I would say. I'll ju I'll just mention in passing anecdotally um when I
48:30 - 49:00 took uh my avoidance to the next level and designed and built a home that excludes syn all forms of synthetic or minimizes all forms of synthetic exposure. My wife and I had been married for many years and she was very supportive but she would tell you I'm not electrically sensitive. And now after several years, would you believe she is often the first one to get sick and she'll come home and she'll say, "Oh, I had to go to a meeting with these ladies and they all had their cell
49:00 - 49:30 phones and my head was so it's very interesting and it's not only me. I've talked to other people who have had that experience where one spouse uh had the sensitivity and so they needed to go to an area where they could practice avoidance and and the other one begins to when they go into a uh heavy exposure again realize the difference. I'm not trying to make a case for it just sharing that anecdotally. I can only agree with you. I have
49:30 - 50:00 exactly the same experience and also the other way around. Uh we were able many years ago to borrow a shielded cubicle, a huge installation underground uh which was basically shielded to all forms of electromagnetic fields. And we brought normal healthy volunteers as well as electro-hypersensitive people there. We didn't tell them what kind of a room it was and they just sat down. I
50:00 - 50:30 think they sat like for 30 minutes and then we interviewed them in the way we said okay how did that feel and everyone said well I don't know what to say it was like something was lacking and that's was exactly what it was and it's so interesting you know because as you know you can take for instance birds in very advanced
50:30 - 51:00 laboratories and expose them to electromagnetic fields or remove the natural fields and that would jam their ability to maneuver and navigate. H and again you are removing or adding something that is completely invisible to also a bird's eye and brain but still they sense it, they feel it. And I remember myself, I went down into this cubicle and that was so odd to sit
51:00 - 51:30 there. Of course, I did know what was going on. So, I'm not the good test person, but wow, was there something lacking? Yes, indeed. So, and and I'm nearly forgotten. Just a few days ago, uh Daniel Fabria and myself have published a new article about honeybees. And again, to make a long story short, they are very dependent on
51:30 - 52:00 a type of natural electromagnetic fields called Schuman resonances. If you remove them, then suddenly a lot of bad things happen, especially with the um honeybee queen who doesn't lay any fertilized eggs any longer. So, they need the natural fields to feel okay. Uh and it's interesting because you know that uh the same you can say about for instance sounds uh people get extremely stressed
52:00 - 52:30 if you don't give them natural sounds. If it's completely soundless that's extremely stressful to the whole organism as is also of course a lot of extra sound. And for instance, when people come here, they often say to me, "Oh, oh, how can you live here? It's such a terrible sound, commotion from outside." And what they hear and which I don't hear after 50 years in this flat
52:30 - 53:00 is the underground trains. Um so um they are sensitive to the variation in their life and I don't even hear them. I I never hear them, you know. And um so every type of exposure, if it's natural, it's fine for you. If it's non-natural, not so good. I talked to many people who are aware or just beginning to be aware of their sensitivity.
53:00 - 53:30 And unfortunately a lot of people in their quest to get information about how do I get how do I restore my old life isn't what most of them want first and then there's this detour with uh harmonizers and scalar energy devices and crystals and diodes and uh stickers and you know endless array of if you buy this you can continue poisoning yourself in the way
53:30 - 54:00 that you always have, but it'll be okay. So, what are what are your thoughts about this? Well, this is uh so cynical to sell things like this, including crystals, pyramids, and whatnot. Uh, and of course they don't do anything to protect you and they instead rob you of some money. Sometimes very much money actually because some of these things are very expensive and it's very cynical
54:00 - 54:30 to fool people into exposing themselves to something that scientists have shown uh you should not expose yourself to. Uh and again if you look on shielding gadgets only the ones that follow textbooks in physics will work uh the rest not. So don't go into that uh alley you know that it's very dark and you will just be uh scammed by ice cold
54:30 - 55:00 salesersons you know. Would you would you agree with the statement that in order to practice um effective avoidance if the steps that you're taking result in a measurable reduction to one of these phenomenon AC magnetic fields AC electric fields radio frequency radiation or uh conducted the u dirty electricity if if it results in
55:00 - 55:30 measurable reduction this can be very good But if it doesn't result in measurable reduction, this is not u effective avoidance. Would you agree with that? I would agree. But I would also uh be careful uh as you say to always make standardized control measurements uh using equipment that is sensitive enough. Uh but as you say, if you don't see any reduction or even an increase in
55:30 - 56:00 exposure, that's a warning flag. Uh but if you can see a reduction, that's a good first step. But uh I see that sometimes you need to go quite far down on the exposure level. Uh and most often your own body is also important to ask uh do I feel okay or not because you can have a numerical reduction but it's
56:00 - 56:30 still uh too much. I mean, we talked about a quintilion times higher, and even if you go down a thousand times, it's still biblical and colossal, you know, so maybe you need to go much much much further down. And I see that uh when people report um feeling healthy uh and that could take, as we said before, quite some time, weeks, months, even years. uh that coincides with that they
56:30 - 57:00 have changed their exposure situation to a I would call it an extremely low exposure situation but it's personal some people need just a bit of reduction to feel better uh and some need a lot and as we said before um I have had these um should we call them odd calls I remember a woman who called me and said oh I have become electrohypersensitive uh I worked as a secretary. I was
57:00 - 57:30 sitting at the uh computer day out day in and now I'm severely electron hypers sensitive and that is the best that has ever happened to me. And I thought what? No, she's she's kidding me. You see, she said I had to move from the city out on the countryside. I have always dreamt of having golden retriever dogs and now I have three of them. And she kept on like this. So she saw her new sensation, her
57:30 - 58:00 sensitivity as God's given gift, you know, and she was happy and and beaming with happiness. But most people they don't beam. They are in a very tough situation and uh they need to stay at their workplace or at their home. They have children etc. and electrohypers sensitivity could really work as a wedge between man um and and woman between um
58:00 - 58:30 the spouses between children and so on. Uh so you need to be especially as a medical doctor you need to be very supportive and not try to solve anything if you can't because the accessibility measures here they are for technicians, electricians, building biologists, that kind of people. medical doctors, they can treat symptoms. Of
58:30 - 59:00 course, if you have a severe headache, they can give you a prescription on aspirine, but they cannot do anything about your computer. You need a specialist in that. And as you said before, always monitor the changes uh technically, but trust your body. Um so that's really the the and and you know when it comes to exposures as you said before the reading could be the same but maybe you have changed the information
59:00 - 59:30 content in the form of pulsations um and polarizations etc and that is actually doing the trick. So it's it's u it's not self-evident and it's not easy to do. Uh but start with the technical reductions and then ask the person how do you feel? Yes. Exactly. So I um I have this concept of
59:30 - 60:00 uh exclusion facilities you know in in the medical world. I think they have two kinds of challenges. A provocation uh study and then a uh exclusion study. So, a very simple idea is if you think you're um having problems with wheat, then you could give somebody a whole bunch of wheat and see how they react or maybe better to just withhold the wheat. So, um I think it would be wonderful if
60:00 - 60:30 worldwide people could not spend any money on having somebody come in and assess their home uh or spend any money certainly on harmonizers or any of that stuff. But if they could go someplace and be away from the synthetic exposures, it used to be possible to just tell people go camping. And if you had any kind of terrain uh available, you know, uh terrain protects against radio frequency
60:30 - 61:00 radiation in certain circumstances. And so that would be a good thing. But now so many campgrounds have Wi-Fi service and people bringing uh Starlink uh devices into uh those campgrounds and whatnot. So, what do you think about the vision of if we one day had exclusion facilities where people could, you know, like a short-term vacation rental could could spend a week in an environment
61:00 - 61:30 where there were, you know, and we would need some kind of a certification, I think, to say that it it is without well, that the measured uh intensities are are shown. It's a brilliant idea. Yeah, it's a brilliant idea and there are already retreats where people go to get away from wifi exposure, Bluetooth
61:30 - 62:00 exposure, cell phone exposure and so on. The problem with such retreats uh is that they are very expensive. Uh they could easily cost five or 10,000 Swedish crowns per week. That would be um uh that would be um Oh, sorry. No, I I mean uh um 5,000 to 10,000. Yeah, that would be uh in dollars. U 5,000 to 10,000 per week in
62:00 - 62:30 dollars, American dollars. So, it's only for the super rich to really use these facilities. Uh but from a governmental point of view uh to inaugurate uh what we call white zones uh could be very good. Um but then while you are there your own home as well as your workplace, your place of leisure should be made accessible for you right by using the removal, the distance, the shielding uh
62:30 - 63:00 characters. H and that doesn't happen most often, you know. Uh so you will come back to the same bad situation again. Uh and therefore from a handicap politics point of view it's not recommended to even try to um construct such kind of reservations for electrohyper sensitive people because uh what they should be
63:00 - 63:30 done is that the entire society should be made accessible and the United Nations is very strict on this. They talk about that every human being is entitled to live an equal life in a society based on equality, not in any like campground reservations or expensive retreats or white songs and so on. Anyone should live in the public domain as well as
63:30 - 64:00 anyone else. And there we have a lot more to do. But again as I said if some Swedish inventors now come up with tomorrow's green human and environmentally friendly technology then Sweden will be more rich than any other country in the world you know. So that would be very good. Uh so I hope someone is listening to this and start thinking could we do it in some other way uh that
64:00 - 64:30 doesn't harm humans and not any of the other species. Yes, that would be that would be the great uh victory. And you know, um, yeah, a friend of mine, uh, Gary Duncan, uh, shared a term with me, wireless trespass. And I thought, what a what a clever way to talk to people because, um, yeah,
64:30 - 65:00 you know, uh, I think the British have this notion in their evolution of their law, the quiet enjoyment of one's home. I hope I have that correct. But but we should all be able to enjoy uh to have peace in our homes. And unfortunately, if you live in an area with uh cell phone service, what it means is you have wireless trespass into your home. And it's uh
65:00 - 65:30 involuntary. You don't have to sign, I understand the dangers. Yes, please blasted into my home. it's it's going to happen to you if you live in an area with cell phone service and um so somehow that needs to change where I sit here with my laptop if I ask the laptop for yeah if I ask the laptop for Bluetooth uh services I get an enormous list
65:30 - 66:00 because there are 60 flats in this apartment building and everyone except me they have it. So I am constantly bombarded. Of course I'm not electrohyper sensitive but I'm still electrohyposensitive and in the long-term run maybe I get damage to my immune system to the DNA leakage of the bloodb brain barrier effects on the sperm cells etc. And I didn't ask for it. It's just here all the time. Um, and
66:00 - 66:30 it it's it's really here all the time because if I wake up in the middle of the night and check, it's basically the same list. Uh, they are transmitting 24/7 these different gadgets. And that could be anything. It could be wireless speakers, it could be wireless headphones, it could be anything using Bluetooth. If I switch to other sources like Wi-Fi is an even longer list. And if I go for cell phone uh services, I
66:30 - 67:00 will then pick up all the base stations around this building. Uh so yeah, it's and and it's all uh nonnatural. It wasn't before here. And for instance, when I was born, practically nothing of this existed. There were a few radio stations in Sweden and TV was not even around. It came after a few years. Uh, and that was practically it.
67:00 - 67:30 Yes. The uh the the troubling thing about this is you and I can remember a time when the world felt much different or at least I I could discern the difference. And um I don't think you can exclude the possibility that you would notice the difference if you could go back to that time. But anyway, people born after a certain period of time, their body has never experienced a time without these, I'll just say synthetic
67:30 - 68:00 exposures. So you know nowadays uh if you look if you look upon babies that are born uh they have been exposed from the moment they were born they were exposed for 9 months in the womb. They were exposed as sperm cells and egg cells and they were exposed as progenitor cells to the sperm cells and to the egg cells. So wow that's a
68:00 - 68:30 completely different life than you and I had you know and again as we know when you look in the scientific literature there are so many important papers and for every day more and more are published uh pointing to that the insurance companies have done the right thing 30 years ago just abandoned ship right Well, Lola, um, you are doing a
68:30 - 69:00 lot of work for a retired man. Oh, thank you. Today, I've been actually vacuum cleaning, you know. Okay. You you published a paper not very long ago. I don't know, maybe two months ago, bacterial uh what what was it? Super super bacteria uh developing in an EMF environment. and you have one that you've just published on the bees and uh sorry I can't remember the name of that
69:00 - 69:30 first one but I'm just saying that you're you're quite busy still in doing this work and you make time from your busy schedule to uh to talk to me and I know you're active in in giving lots of different interviews. I just want to encourage people um that you are still doing uh research and you're still quite active in in this area and there is a way I would like to ask people if you would consider supporting the efforts. There is a um
69:30 - 70:00 and I'll leave this in the description research.radiation. DK delta kilo research.radiation.dk DK and each of you listening to this can have a uh the opportunity to help make um his work continue. So, is there anything? Um yes, absolutely. Any final words? Any anything else that you'd like to share
70:00 - 70:30 before we before we sign off? No, no, I think we touched upon quite a few of uh the different uh results that are discussed around the world. And just to conclude, you mentioned uh the effect on bacteria which is the most scary part actually. uh and uh scientists, several different research groups have done this uh and they exposed ordinary bacteria that we
70:30 - 71:00 have on us and in us right now while we speak and they exposed them to the second generation mobile telephony or to super modern Wi-Fi routers and to make a long story short and others have done the same studies but with soil bacteria u And what happened was that the bacteria getting these colossal exposures turned into
71:00 - 71:30 antibiotic resistant bacteria. And during the recent uh coid9 pandemic, a representative of the World Health Organization in Geneva in Switzerland, he was asked by a reporter if COVID 19 was the greatest threat to mankind. And then he kind of Riley smiled and said, "No, we can cope with that. You know, we will come up with solutions to it." But the reporter was smart. So he asked,
71:30 - 72:00 "But what is the biggest threat to mankind?" And then this um official from the WH said, "Well, that's easy to answer. That's antibiotic resistance in healthcare." And then when I heard that, you know, I kind of froze because I realized that this man or the reporter, they didn't know that already scientists have shown that household ordinary exposure levels,
72:00 - 72:30 not anything extra, will turn bacteria antibiotic resistant. And if that will happen on a bigger scale, which is already doing, and the WH even calls it a medical tsunami, uh then people soon will start dying from a splinter in their finger as we did at the end of the 1900 century. Uh and that is scary, I would
72:30 - 73:00 say. you know uh and I do hope that all these scientists are wrong and being like a mental fire brigade soldier I want to be wrong actually I want to come to the place and find out there isn't any fire there isn't any danger but again as I said every morning when I wake up there isn't any new data pointing into the green sector it's just another paper pointing into the red
73:00 - 73:30 sector instead. So I do hope more people will realize as I said before that the manufacturers, operators and insurance companies, they are the ones with the real precautionary principle. Uh they just skipped any form of responsibility which leaves us holding the bag. So yeah indeed we we are left on the ship
73:30 - 74:00 together with our politicians and civil servants and they do at least here nothing. Uh and this is just going on and you know we talked about honeybees and bumblebees and so on. Um it's it's a dramatic loss. Uh Canada have lost more than 90% of their honeybees. The United States more than 90% of their bumblebees. 75% of their honeybees. Europe in general around
74:00 - 74:30 75%. And if you look for instance on the Swedish farming landscape which used to be like a checkered board, it's in August only one color and that is from um uh oat um wheat barley and that kind of things because they are windpollinated. So the farmers have skipped all the other crops because there are no insects any longer and they
74:30 - 75:00 just go for making wheat and bali and you can make oatmeal and you can make bread. So but no fruit, no vegetables, no nuts in the future. And I'm surprised when I go in the Stockholm underground that not every human being stands up and screams in horror because that's what they should do actually. But they don't. They are just yeah I I guess they don't realize uh what is happening you know but it's happening fast very
75:00 - 75:30 fast it is happening very fast and I I think I'm correct in saying that there are patents where radio frequency radiation is used to kill insects and now we're deploying it um um broadly and to damage DNA yeah you can use yeah you can use the cell phone radiation in experiments in laboratories to damage the DNA and no one says well what happens outdoors and we know what
75:30 - 76:00 happens outdoors the DNA is also damaged again no one stands up and say stop we cannot allow this show just goes on you know yep I'm with you so I live in the forest and yet we have cell phon what I always tell people is yeah and what I always tell people also is that when you die maybe there is a pearly gate and a
76:00 - 76:30 St. Peter and I don't want him to tell me that why didn't you speak up you saw and understood like Arthur Fenberg why didn't you speak up and I did speak up so maybe he will say you did your best you failed but you did your best anyhow you know that's enough for me and I'm surprised as I say that not more people
76:30 - 77:00 scream to whom much is given, much will be required. Maybe one day we'll hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant." Yeah. Oola, thank you so much for um all that you do, all that you have done. or or the opposite, you know, maybe maybe when I come to the pearly gates, uh, it will say sponsored by Ericson Telecommunication, you know, and you can take national pride in that
77:00 - 77:30 at least. Oh, oh, national pride. But I will still go down, you know. Thank you so much for uh for your time today. I appreciate it. Thank you.