Astaxanthin Expert: Mistakes, Side Effects, Doses, Timing, Brands, Storage - with Dave AX3 Life

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In a deep dive into the potential of astaxanthin as a longevity supplement, Rimon from Wellness Messiah interviews Dave from AX3 Life. The discussion centers around the benefits, dosing, mechanisms, and safety of astaxanthin, informed by the ITP study, which found it extended lifespan in male mice by 12%. The conversation offers insights into the antioxidant properties, longevity pathways, and bioavailability of different astaxanthin forms, while also exploring consumer considerations for purchasing and using the supplement.

Highlights

Astaxanthin was found to extend the lifespan of male mice by 12% in an ITP study. 🌟
The antioxidant properties of astaxanthin are unique because it does not become prooxidant. 🚫
Different isomers of astaxanthin contribute to its effectiveness, with synthetic forms offering superior bioavailability. 🧪
It's crucial to purchase astaxanthin from reputable sources to ensure potency and purity. 🛒
Dave recommends starting with 12 to 24 mg of highly bioavailable astaxanthin daily for optimal benefits. 🤓
Astaxanthin works by stabilizing cellular membranes, reducing oxidative stress, and supporting cardiovascular and cognitive health. 🏋️‍♂️🧠

Key Takeaways

Astaxanthin may be a powerful supplement for extending lifespan, as shown in mice studies. 🐭
This antioxidant is uniquely effective and safe, with no significant side effects noted in humans so far. 👍
Proper dosing is essential, with 12 to 24 mg per day being a recommended start for longevity benefits. 📏
Astaxanthin offers better absorption with high bioavailability in AX3's patented form compared to traditional algae-derived versions. 💧
Consuming astaxanthin with fat-rich meals can enhance its effectiveness. 🍽️
The supplement has potential cardiovascular and muscle benefits, potentially improving cholesterol levels and reducing exercise-induced stress. ❤️💪

Overview

Astaxanthin has captured the interest of longevity researchers due to its impressive results in extending the lifespan of model organisms. This potent antioxidant works by stabilizing cellular membranes and supporting key longevity pathways, offering promise for enhancing human health and lifespan.

In an extensive interview, Rimon explores the depth of research conducted with the help of Dave from AX3 Life, who provides insights into the mechanisms and optimal use of astaxanthin. They discuss its role in reducing oxidative stress, its unique biochemical properties, and the enhanced bioavailability of their patented formula compared to standard forms.

The discussion also covers practical aspects of usage, such as recommended dosing and purchasing considerations, emphasizing the importance of fat-rich meals for better absorption. The conversation is informed by scientific data from trials on both animals and humans, cementing astaxanthin's place as a leading natural supplement for longevity.

Chapters

00:00 - 02:30: Introduction to Astaxanthin and Longevity Research The chapter introduces astaxanthin and its relevance in longevity research. Over 20 years of research have identified astaxanthin as a promising supplement for increasing longevity. It highlights the Intervention Testing Program (ITP), recognized as a prestigious research organization in this field. Astaxanthin is the molecule responsible for the pink color of salmon and flamingos. Although astaxanthin shows potential, the transcript cautions against hastily purchasing it as a supplement without further insights.
02:30 - 05:00: Understanding the Details: Dose, Timing, and Brand Selection Understanding the Details: Dose, Timing, and Brand Selection - This chapter discusses the importance of specific details such as dosage, timing, cycling, and brand selection in studies. It highlights that the exact brand used in the ITP study is available for purchase today. Dave, a researcher with over 25 years of experience in Astin, is identified as a leading expert in the field, particularly in relation to longevity.
05:00 - 07:30: Dave's Research with Astaxanthin This chapter focuses on Dave's research with the supplement astaxanthin, highlighting his role as a researcher rather than a salesperson. The chapter discusses the material supplied for the ITP (Intervention Testing Program), detailing the research findings on astaxanthin, potential side effects, and its impacts on exercise routines and testosterone levels. Dave also shares personal insights, including his personal dosage and how to translate the ITP study dosage to practical use for individuals.
07:30 - 09:30: Disclaimers and Importance of Video Content The chapter emphasizes the importance of disclaimers and transparency when discussing topics such as health and supplements. The speaker clarifies that they are not affiliated with any supplement companies, highlighting their focus on health and longevity rather than profit. The chapter also introduces an in-depth interview with S Zenton, noted as the most comprehensive one available online. The content promises practical insights for those interested in extending their lifespan. The speaker corrects a translation mistake at the beginning, underscoring the importance of accuracy in communication.
09:30 - 12:30: Astaxanthin's Impact on Different Species This chapter introduces astaxanthin as an exciting supplement for longevity, discussing its impact on different species. It suggests listening to the entire discussion, despite its length, for forming effective habits. The speaker is Dave, founder and CEO of AX3 Life, whose astaxanthin was used in the ITP 2024 study.
12:30 - 19:00: Mechanisms of Action: Unique Antioxidant Effects The chapter titled 'Mechanisms of Action: Unique Antioxidant Effects' discusses various studies on the increase of a compound called Lipan in different species. It highlights a study showing a 12% increase in Lipan levels in male mice. Furthermore, it mentions two studies each demonstrating increased Lipan levels in worms and fruit flies, even under oxidative stress. The chapter also touches upon fxo activation, known to be effective in humans, hinting at its significance for longevity research. The discussion seems to revolve around the underlying scientific evidence that could be crucial for understanding and promoting longevity.
19:00 - 25:00: Activation of Longevity Genes (FOXO3) The chapter titled 'Activation of Longevity Genes (FOXO3)' discusses initial research involving yeast and how it contributes to foundational studies on longevity genes. The focus is on understanding the mechanism of action of certain interventions, with specific emphasis on the pathways impacted by Asis anon, a compound relevant to aging. Preliminary research was conducted before or during the Intervention Testing Program (ITP), but likely before the completion of the ITP study itself. Overall, the chapter highlights key studies and mechanisms concerning aging pathways.
25:00 - 32:30: ITP Study Methodology and Results The chapter discusses the study methodology and results related to ITP (Intermittent Treatment Protocol) focusing on its impact on biological pathways such as AMPK, mTOR, FOXO3, and Nrf2. There is an emphasis on the connection between these pathways and longevity, supported mostly by empirical evidence from model organisms. The chapter also mentions that while current studies provide some evidence of longevity extension in organisms, such long-term effects are challenging to assess in humans due to the impracticality of conducting decades-long studies.
32:30 - 34:30: Discussion on Safety and Side Effects The chapter discusses the potential safety and side effects of certain diets observed in long-living regions of the world. It specifically mentions the consumption of asanin by various sea creatures such as whales, crustaceans, and fish, which might contribute to their longevity. The chapter emphasizes the anecdotal nature of the evidence regarding these dietary habits and suggests that the major understanding of safety and side effects is still based on indirect observation and assumptions.
34:30 - 38:00: Astaxanthin in Salmon and Its Benefits The chapter discusses Astaxanthin, a compound found in salmon, and its potential benefits on lifespan. It highlights the first mammalian test of Astaxanthin conducted under the Interventions Testing Program (ITP), funded by the National Institute on Aging which is part of the National Institutes of Health in the United States.
38:00 - 45:00: Types of Astaxanthin: Natural vs. Synthetic The chapter discusses the differences between natural and synthetic astaxanthin. It references a large biomedical research program conducted at three independent research organizations:"The University of Michigan, the University of Texas, and Jackson Labs in Maine." The program employs genetically heterogeneous mice to ensure that research findings are more applicable to humans compared to traditional laboratory mice strains.
45:00 - 53:00: Practical Use and Dosage Conversion for Humans The chapter titled 'Practical Use and Dosage Conversion for Humans' discusses the limitations of using genetically homogeneous mice for research intended to translate to human populations. The dialogue touches upon the use of specially bred genetically heterogeneous mice as a more effective method for such studies due to their diverse genetic makeup. The speakers reflect on the length of time these studies have been conducted, noting that the program has been running for around 20 years. They highlight a significant finding from a recent study in 2024, which indicates that EST zenin has led to the greatest lifespan extension in male mice studied across three different locations. This finding is considered remarkable by the speakers.
53:00 - 58:00: Impact on Exercise and Antioxidant Levels The chapter discusses a study that highlights the impact of certain molecules on exercise and antioxidant levels. The study found two molecules that extended Lipan, a notable finding, as one of these molecules is a natural supplement rather than a drug. While the drug increased Lipan in males and only in specific locations, the natural supplement esenin showed consistent results across three different lamps, increasing Lipan effectively. This finding is significant as it represents the longest extension for a natural supplement, showing its potential benefits for enhancing Lipan levels and possibly affecting exercise performance positively.
58:00 - 65:00: Importance of Dosage and Timing for Longevity The chapter discusses the significance of dosage and timing in the context of health and longevity. It highlights that while many substances like fish oil, Resveratrol, metformin, and NAD precursors have been studied for their health benefits, this chapter notes a significant milestone in the research field: it is the first time in 20 years that a naturally occurring molecule is being tested for these purposes.
65:00 - 74:00: Personal Experimentation and Final Thoughts on Dosage This chapter discusses the significance of a widely accessible and safe supplement that has been shown to increase lifespan by more than 10% with strong statistical significance. The speaker compares it to 'Rapa', which is effective for lifespan but not ideal for daily use. The focus is on different dosing regimens and analogs.
74:00 - 81:00: Impact on Testosterone and Hormonal Functions The chapter discusses the importance of finding substances that extend lifespan and health span, and that can be taken daily. The focus is on a study involving mice, where actin is mentioned as having reduced specific causes of death, notably cancer, which is a common cause of death in these mice. The chapter underscores the significance of these findings given the 20-year rigorous research behind it.
81:00 - 87:30: Risks and Quality Considerations of Different Brands The chapter discusses the risks and quality considerations associated with different brands, primarily focusing on aging and cancer. It emphasizes that aging in certain cases can manifest through diseases such as cancer. The conversation explores the idea that while heart disease might not be prevalent, cancer becomes the primary cause of death in such scenarios. It challenges the notion that treatments targeting cancer in mice can be directly labeled as cancer treatments, as they also address underlying aging mechanisms. These mechanisms might manifest differently in humans compared to mice, leading to a broader discussion on the variability between species in response to treatments targeting aging.
87:30 - 92:30: Testing and Blood Level Implications The chapter discusses the health implications of a compound called asanin, particularly in relation to heart health and cancer research. Although supplements cannot officially claim to prevent or treat cancer, research indicates that asanin might play a role in slowing down aging processes, which indirectly affects cancer development by delaying its onset.
92:30 - 103:30: Research Directions and Unanswered Questions The chapter discusses research on delaying cancer and prolonging lifespan. It highlights a study which did not measure cancer specifically but did result in prolonged lifespan, which is assumed to be primarily due to cancer delay. There is also mention that health span was not measured, which is a point of interest for further research. Additionally, the chapter briefly notes a 3% finding related to females, though the details of this finding are not fully explained.
103:30 - 114:00: Future of Astaxanthin Products and Market Considerations The chapter explores the future prospects and market considerations for astaxanthin products, particularly focusing on their impact on lifespan. While studies show an increase in lifespan, particularly in females, the statistical significance is still under debate. The transcript discusses how astaxanthin might potentially equalize lifespan between genders, noting that females generally have a longer lifespan than males. The chapter delves into why these gender differences in lifespan might exist and how astaxanthin products could alter such dynamics in the future market.
114:00 - 117:00: Final Thoughts and Contact Information The chapter "Final Thoughts and Contact Information" focuses on discussing potential research related to the effects of hormones on health, emphasizing that benefits should not be exclusively attributed to men. While observing graphical data, the author notes potential benefits for females, acknowledging the limitations of statistical significance due to the sample size. The chapter concludes with a suggestion that further research could potentially reveal more insights.

Astaxanthin Expert: Mistakes, Side Effects, Doses, Timing, Brands, Storage - with Dave AX3 Life Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 for 20 years they have done research and now they found the most successful supplement to increase longevity they mean the ITP the intervention testing program the most prestigious longevity research organization today which supplement do they test AA zantin santin is a molecule made by algae and actually gives salmon and flamingos their pink color so if you want to live longer and stay younger should you just go and buy santin as a supplement form and tiet not so quickly if you be following my
00:30 - 01:00 Channel you know that the devil is in the details the dose the timing cycling and the brand which brand do they use in the ITP study and can you buy it today the answer is yes what I've done for you today is tracking and finding the exact manufacturer that provided the ITP with their product this person Dave has been researching Astin for over 25 years and is probably in my opinion one of the top three experts on santin for longevity in the world today especially in the context of longevity because he shares
01:00 - 01:30 his passion as well just like me and probably like you so it's part of our community to be honest and he's much more a researcher than a salesperson as opposed to other people will sell supplement and actually very biased about what they sell so de company Supply the ITP with the material and he will tell you everything you need to know about the research on santin the side effects we are going to discuss the impact on your exercise routine or your testosterone how much Astin he takes personally and what's the best way to translate in the dose from what they achieve in the ITP study to our bodies
01:30 - 02:00 this has shocked me because I would never guess this translation I actually made a mistake and he corrected me before we started this podcast interview there are two disclaimers the first one is I'm not affiliate with any supplement company I don't care what you take I want you to stay healthy I want you to stay young but I don't really profit nor do I care about which supplement you buy the second disclaimer is this is the most indepth interview on S zenton today on the Internet it's long but I promise you this it's extremely practical and if if you want to live longer that you need
02:00 - 02:30 to know all the small details in order to form a habit that makes sense that is actually effective so I suggest despite the length of this video give it a chance and listen to everything and if there is a segment that is not interesting to you use the chapter to go to what is interesting now enjoy esta Zan thing the most exciting supplement for longevity on the market today so today we're going to speak with Dave is the founder in CEO of ax3 life which is the a zantin that has been used by the ITP 2024 study that has been shown to
02:30 - 03:00 increase Lipan in male mice by 12% so I've SE I've read two Lipan studies that increases Lipan in worms and two Lipan studies it increases Lipan in fruit flies even though under some stress some oxidative stress and also we have the the the fxo activation which we know works on humans as well so this was like the background to the ITP pre ITP there was any piece of evidence that you feel is super important besides the one I mentioned that is relevant for longevity
03:00 - 03:30 specifically there was yeast as well um which just contributes it's not specifically you know a major uh addition but that's also part of the preliminary research uh that was published I think prior to the ITP starting or at least during the ITP if um certainly prior to the ITP study being completed um but I think apart from those key studies um there's the the mechanism of action types of studies where you look at Asis anon's impact on important pathways related to aging you
03:30 - 04:00 know so ampk um and you know impacts on mtor the cerin foxo 3 Nerf 2 um you know etc etc so I think all of that helps to contribute to the understanding that it makes sense that it would have an impact on longevity other than just the empirical evidence that it did extend longevity in those model organisms um so that would be um probably the best evidence that we had there's certainly nothing in humans it's very hard to test longevity in humans to you know follow people for decades um and um um
04:00 - 04:30 anecdotally you know that's also hard to know looking at you know people's diets in longer living regions of the world Etc does do they contain asanin um in the wild you know some some of the long living sea creatures um you know do consume a lot of acan asanin in their diet you know so that contributes yeah exactly whales and you know Crustaceans and fish and um and so um so that also helps um but but I think that's the you know the uh the majority of the evidence
04:30 - 05:00 that you know gave us the understanding that you know let's um let's see if we can demonstrate this in mammals because the the ITP was the first mamalian uh test of ases anthon for lifespan and the ITP um you know just I'm sure um you know everyone listening has uh you know heard of the ITP um to some extent but but if not it's a it's an NIH funded program specifically by the National Institute on Aging um and um and that's you know part of the United States National Institutes of Health uh which
05:00 - 05:30 is the largest funer of you know biomedical research in in the world and this program is conducted at three independent research organizations um at the University of Michigan the University of Texas and Jackson labs in in Maine and they essentially run the study in triplicate in parallel and so they have like 3,000 mice each year that are genetically heterogeneous and so they're more translatable to humans based um as compared to the typical uh laboratory in strains of mice um that
05:30 - 06:00 are used for a lot of basic research but uh would not necessarily give us the best translation to real world you know human populations uh so they have these um you know specially bred genetically heterogeneous mice how long have you been doing those those studies like like 15 years maybe 20 years yeah the program 20 years and this is today 2024 came up a study showed that EST zenin is the long the longest extension in male mice in all three locations I think this is pretty astounding
06:00 - 06:30 and need to understand people need to understand the importance of the study because so I think the astounding thing is they found two molecules that extended Lipan in the study one of them was a drug this drug only increased Lipan in males in two locations but the esenin was very consistent in all three location all three different lamps it increased Lipan and I think it's pretty astonishing and and I I believe it's like the longest extension they've ever had for a natural supplement we can buy of the Shelf not like a drug such as
06:30 - 07:00 Romy it's not yeah because fish oil has been tested kirkin has been tested Resveratrol has been tested ftin has been tested um you know other you know drugs like metformin um uh Ned precursor NR was tested um and so a lot of things that um have a lot of interest and and Merit for Health and Longevity have been tested but to your point this is the first time in the 20 years that a naturally occurring molecule that's a
07:00 - 07:30 supplement that's widely accessible exceptionally safe was shown to increase lifespan by more than 10% in fact like you said 12% with very high statistical significance I think the P value was like 0.003 um so very very uh strong statistical significance as well and so yeah that's a really big deal because otherwise you had agents like Rapa that yeah performed really well from a lifespan standpoint but from a real world standpoint not necessarily something you want to take every day and so people are looking at different dosing regimens and and analogs rimy um
07:30 - 08:00 but you know you want ideally to have something that can extend lifespan extend health span and be something that you could reasonably take every day so this is a really big deal like you said after 20 years with this incredibly rigorous independent program are you aware of the specific cause of death that was reduced by actin because I know 80% of these mice die from cancer so the mice in this model typically die from a cancer of one type or another and that's just that's just the thing that is the
08:00 - 08:30 cancer or something like that yeah yeah yeah whatever it may be there's different types um but but essentially the Aging is manifested in the form of cancer like they're not getting heart disease but they're getting cancer and that ultimately is uh is the reason uh for for cause of death but it would be one could say oh well therefore this is a cancer treatment you know but it's it's it's more it's the the theory is that it's treating the mechanisms of Aging that ultimately are driving in this case aging or cancer in the mice whereas in humans that may be different
08:30 - 09:00 um with that said there are mechanistic rationals that asanin impacts heart health and you know there's research related to cancer again you can't make claims like that as a supplement but there is cancer research uh being being done with with acanth some interesting results there um but yeah so I don't think it's not like it was a cancer uh you know uh agent that was being tested but it was something that um mitigated or slowed down the aging process that ultimately manifested itself as cancer in it delayed it delayed the cancer the
09:00 - 09:30 male group right is this correct it delayed the cancer yeah I mean they they didn't measure you know cancer specifically but certainly it it it delayed you know their death their you know it prolonged their lifespan and so presumably that was um you know based on cancer for the most part um across they did not measure Health span they did not measure Health span right that's what we looking for they can't it's just not for them to do want to know yeah with a female if I could the females I'll mention their the females had a 3%
09:30 - 10:00 increase in lifespan but it was not statically significant um and so but the females already live about 9% longer you know and so ultimately when you look at the the total you know dur duration of lifespan in the males and females they were but just about the same the females were slightly longer um like you know long longer lifespan and so I think that it essentially allowed asanin to um have the males catch up to the females in terms of lifespan um and but why there was the differ
10:00 - 10:30 um you know we don't know specifically you know something you would presume related to hormones you know Etc um and so I think that would be interesting research but that it would be incorrect to say that well therefore this is only a benefit for for men or for males you know this is without Health SP but I also when I look at the graph I saw it was extended in the females as well it visually you can see that it a bit and numerically it was although not statistically significantly maybe if you had a bigger group um potentially uh but again the
10:30 - 11:00 females already lived longer and so now with the aanin the males lived just about the same as the females both being slightly longer than control and so it might be that just there's a maximal extension effect and the females already were there or maybe there's something else you know regarding females um and the aging process that that aanin has better impact for males but from a health span well while Health span wasn't tested from an overall health benefit like the study we did in vascular subjects that was males and
11:00 - 11:30 females and other clinical studies are done in males and females animal research Fales the fox activation worked both male and female um the mouse study with uh um I don't recall if that was males or males and females we have to double check on that but certainly the totality of evidence shows that there's benefits in males and females for various applications of Health you know cardiovascular cognitive Etc so I think it certainly can help males and females in terms of overall health specific areas of health and then in terms of
11:30 - 12:00 actual lifespan um certainly males and then we'd have to see with females in the next section we will cover the mechanisms of action of santin which is very important because we need to understand how can santin mechanistically increase lifespan longevity there are two mechanisms Dave and I going to discuss the first one it's Unique antioxidant effect which correlates with freezing time you're going to discover that in a second let me go to the chemical activity of of this compound because it's very
12:00 - 12:30 interesting to me in my perspective when you want to preserve your youthfulness you want to freeze time you don't want to change and you don't want your membranes to change all the time and my understanding correct me on this but ssen is a bit unique antioxidants in two aspects one it can have multiple hits of free radicals it won't just get get going to get one hit from the free radical then it's going to die it's going to have multiple cycles and the second is it cannot become prooxidant we know uh yeah if you for example put too
12:30 - 13:00 much even even outside if you put too much vitamin E into fish oil is can oxidize the fish oil it makes me more wary about antioxidant recommendations but it would seem that atin doesn't suffer from these two two things so it's more like a long lasting antioxidant that stabilize your membranes and it it fits more into the picture that I have of freezing time which I I want to do so can you corre correct me on these two
13:00 - 13:30 two aspects of the chemical properties of this molecule yeah no you're definitely correct in terms of asanin being a very unique antioxidant and so a lot of people think of all antioxidants as being the same U but they're not and so the structure makes a really important difference and even within the carotenoid family if you look at acanthine versus betacarotene uh or lutein and zanthin they look to the untrained eye very chemically similar from the molecular structure um but but like I mentioned earlier
13:30 - 14:00 asanin um has oxygenated head groups um with hydroxy um o groups and and also Ketone groups on on each um ring U way at the end of the molecule whereas beta carotene does not um and and so that allows it like you said to Anchor across the membrane and stabilize U the cellular membrane um and we've done work with a collaborator of ours um who has a an appointment at Harvard but also his own private research company where they had a biological U membrane model and
14:00 - 14:30 they incorporated asanin or other um antioxidants in and looked at um the electron density across the membrane so you have higher concentration of electrons at the phospholipid hail tail head groups and then a lower concentration at at the Tails um and and you can look at that electron density across the membrane and when you put aanin in um that density or distribution of the electron was virtually unchanged
14:30 - 15:00 uh and if you Incorporated other things like betacarotene or even lopine you saw a very significant disturbance in the electron density and disturbance of the membrane and so it is is stabilizing what does it mean disturbance in so people could understand so the membrane is comprised of a lipid bilayer so you have phospho lipids you know kind of two backtack lipids uh with the heads and the tails you know kind of in opposite directions and that comprises the the membrane um and um um when it gets Disturbed those
15:00 - 15:30 are no longer nicely ordered they can get you know kind of um angled in different directions and you don't have a nicely ordered stacked membrane of your lipids um nicely uh you know laid out across the membrane and that can have a lot of negative effects on cellular function if your membrane is depolarized or or disturbed um and so asanin helps to maintain the Integrity of the membrane uh as compared to other antioxidants and even other catenoids um but also so with that um it has the
15:30 - 16:00 ability to scavenge threee radicals both inside and outside the membrane because it can uh trap free radicals with its uh head groups but also which would be at the surface uh of the membrane inside and outside um you know and also inside the interior of the membrane with the double conjugated poine backbone of the molecule that can also um you know quench free radicals and and so it has the ability to fight free radicals in and outside of the membrane and then it can say um uh regenerate to
16:00 - 16:30 you know by interaction with vitamin C which you know like can regenerate Vitamin E for example as an antioxidant so it can play well with with the other antioxidants as well um and so I think with aanin you have that unique capability based on its structure to not become prooxidant which by the way in that model membrane system not only did it stabilize or maintain the Integrity of the membrane um lipid peroxidation was measured and uh lipid peroxidation or oxidation of the lipids in the membrane was reduced with aanin whereas
16:30 - 17:00 it was increased with beta kene which was acting as a prooxidant in that case and so that's a really cool study um that that what about the others lopine also did they measure other yes all of the other ones um had varying levels of membrane disturbance and lipid peroxidation in that particular model whereas aanin was the only one that had the reduction of the lipid peroxidation it's not to say that all of those are an it's almost they attract a fire to the
17:00 - 17:30 membrane I potentially yeah that could be one way of putting it or they disrupt the membrane which which is is not good and it potentially can be prooxidant um and so aanan I think is very unique in that case um and so but in addition to that there's been some studies in in test tubes looking at like singlet oxygen um you know Scavenging uh quenching that is uh you know one measure of its kind of antioxidant capabilities and it actually was much more effective um at fighting the free radicals uh compared to other common
17:30 - 18:00 antioxidants and it was shown to be like 6,000 times stronger than vitamin C or 550 times stronger than vitamin E and like 40 times stronger than Beta katene And so from a Scavenging standpoint it appears to be very effective but I think almost more importantly is the fact that it localizes in that special way in the membrane uh which is very unique um and the fact that it not only gets to the me the outer plasma membrane of the cell but like I said gets to the nule Nu clear bondal and other membranes in the
18:00 - 18:30 cell which is are all important places and if you can do that you can reduce the oxidation of the lipids but if you're at the the nuclear level for example you're you're preventing hopefully the oxidation of the DNA and and then ultimately proteins and so all of these things have important impacts on all of your cellular signaling Pathways and functions and so there's benefits to mitochondria and and other uh you know cell signaling Pathways as well and and so these are all uh ways that asan can benefit but at its core it's sitting in the membranes free radicals stabilizing the Integrity of
18:30 - 19:00 the membranes um but then I think it has all these Downstream this Cascade of benefits on inflammatory Pathways and and other uh signaling pathway my understanding is correct when it comes to the cell this is my imagination so I see a circle it sits the uh one side of the membrane of coming in in contact with the blood the inside coming in contact with the cytoplasm and the same idea with the membrane around the mitochondria so the the same idea so these are like the four Lo a that I see in my mind that it sits um is is this
19:00 - 19:30 correct and also does is it dispersed also in the cytoplasm as well no it could because it's it's um um you know lipid uh soluble um and so it'll be in the membranes it wouldn't be in the intracellular cytoplasm um because that's an aquous uh environment and so but it would be in the membranes but not just of the plasma the outer layer of the cell and the mitochondrial membranes but like the nuclear membrane as well and the membranes of the um the the GG the ER the other cellular organ LS and
19:30 - 20:00 so I think it's it's it's in all these important locations um and uh even though it's not in the cytoplasm it's it's in all these key places where important activities are happening in the cell and and how how could it absorb so many hits compared to so in my mind you take vitamin E it goes into the membrane it gets oxidized and then the body has to get rid of it some way uh when it's oxidized MAV attracts some free radicals so to me when I take a vitamin E I'm not really
20:00 - 20:30 sure um the behavior of the vitamin E is going to be very um unpredictable so how is that different from asanin how come actin absorbs so many hits well asanin if you look at the structure versus vitamin E is different vitamin E doesn't have that second you know as long of a poly conjugated you know backbone or a second uh head group and so it um it anchors into the membrane but kind of floats around um and so think that asanin has more areas
20:30 - 21:00 on the molecule to fight free radicals but also um you know I think that potentially can be regenerated by uh say like vitamin C um where that can like like with vitamin E can potentially help to regenerate it as an antioxidant um but regenerate so it would like with vitamin it would defer it would defer to santin do you think the vitamin c and e would refer to as yeah I don't know about vitamin E interaction with with with um with aanin but say with vitamin
21:00 - 21:30 C like for example with vitamin C and vitamin E they can play together work together uh that if vitamin E becomes um oxidized then then vitamin C can help to um you know restore that um and so with with aanin potentially it could act in the same way and and um um I I don't know of research specifically to that effect but that would be more the hypothesis um that it it could uh you know transfer those electrons and potentially be regenerated but also if you are taking consistent daily dosing then hopefully you are restoring aanin
21:30 - 22:00 in the membranes as needed um and so I think again that mechanistically be really cool to uh you know see more and learn more about that but um but but that understanding was something that that you know we were thinking about um over 20 years ago because when we were first doing the pharmaceutical research and we were doing those amino acid derivatives and other derivatives of Asis anthon that I was talking about that helped to uh increase the water dispersibility and absorption in the gut um we actually were looking at an asanin
22:00 - 22:30 D succinate so is cified with succinic acid but then um also um we had vitamin C molecules attached so it was an asanin doxinate D vitamin C uh conjugate and the thought process there was that we'd be delivering aanin with vitamin C to help uh you know help it be performing uh you know at optimally um and so that wasn't based on actual research looking at dosing with and without vitamin C um but it was based on the mechanistic
22:30 - 23:00 rationale that um that potentially vitamin C could could help it but I think just generally speaking just the molecule itself is is better constructed to fight free radicals it has more places to to do that now Dave is going to discuss another mechanism of santin it's potential activation of longevity genes I tell in my group that it act it speaks to the DNA the DNA sees centin uh I speculate because the algae you make you make actin by exposing the algae to some stress for whatever
23:00 - 23:30 reason I think our DNA has a read on it and he says okay there is some stress I'm going to activate these longevity genes in my mind the activation of levity genes is separate and distinct from the antioxidant defense which also beneficial because of the various properties that it has is different why from all the Esten products on the market the ITP has chosen your product the cardex patent santin over the other uh products well it stemed out of research that we did with our
23:30 - 24:00 collaborators at the University of Hawaii uh who are uh renowned uh ger science researchers and they had a model uh looking at fox03 expression in mice um and uh based on the preliminary research with acis anthon that demonstrated that acis anthan extended lifespan in the sea Elegance worms um and fruit flies and yeast and so in the celegans um there is a particular Gene that they have that is essentially their version of the foxo3 gene that in humans
24:00 - 24:30 is correlated or known to be associated with uh with longevity just I'm just translating to to the audience so the focus is basically one of the two genes that have the the biggest evidence for extending Lipan in humans not just animals so this Gene is really important it's not just uh any longevity genes like super long it's like very high confidence longevity Gene correct exactly and so a lot of that actually was um uh you know elucidated from the h
24:30 - 25:00 lart program which was a study here in Hawaii that followed thousands of Japanese American men uh you know from like the 1960s um you know onward and looked at all of the uh their doctor's visits the reasons they got sick or passed away collected you know Blood and Tissue samples and it's this amazing database of uh you know that researchers can utilize to to explore Health and Longevity and one thing that emerged from that program was the role of fox03 that you know we all have the foxo3 G
25:00 - 25:30 but there's different versions of it that are let let ask question 10 question is that correct that foxo controls the igf-1 insulin path pathway this is what it affected by in ense the insulin igf-1 they speak to to that Gene is is that correct I believe so I'm not a an expert in foxo3 mechanism but I know that it impacts uh a you know a lot of important other Pathways and cellular functions uh it reduces cardiovascular inflammation uh influences other you know key
25:30 - 26:00 mechanisms related to longevity um and what was known from this Hon the heart program with foxo 3 is that if you have the most active version uh of of the gene the highest expressing form that you were three times more likely to live to 100 healthy um and this has been replicated in other populations and other studies thereafter and so to your point foxo3 is is one of the most important um anti-aging or longevity genes if you will that um that is currently known and so going back to the
26:00 - 26:30 worms have a question about about this how many copies do we have do we have just one copy of the fxo Gen in human genome or just multiple of these you know yeah you want to have GG a you know to have the U the most active form um and so there can be you know the GG or or other forms um and so that's what we're looking at so just one gene different forums yes yes um and that that's my understanding um and um and so
26:30 - 27:00 going back to the worms um they have a gene called da 16 that is essentially their version of the foxo3 Gene and the hypothesis was if you knock out that Gene uh would you still have the lifespan benefit that was found in the cgant and in fact when you knocked out that Gene essentially got rid of the foxo3 gene in the mice or sorry in the worms then the lifespan benefit went away um and so that uh contributed to to
27:00 - 27:30 the understanding that most likely ases anthon at least in the seigan worm model was acting through essentially the fox03 pathway So based on that this is a study that you have done it was done with your a published no this was just with uh other ases anthon on the market um that was sourced um you know from a laboratory Source uh or from another commercial source and done by other researchers in the international research community so it's based on published resarch that uh we and others you know uh would take to inform us um
27:30 - 28:00 with our you know future research um and so we connected with our collaborators at the University of Hawaii who had this model in mice looking at foxo3 activation um and we thought let's see if Asis anthon potentially uh can activate or increase the expression of foxo3 in the mice so our researchers at at the University of Hawaii are are you know um looking at everything related to longevity and and based on the fact that um that asanin um you know appeared to
28:00 - 28:30 work through the fox3 pathway in the or the da 16 pathway in the the worms um we wanted to just see well let's let's see what asanin does with foxo3 in in mammals um so that was essentially the idea for you know you have this model looking at foxo3 we know that as senon has you know appears to act through foxo3 um in a basic model organism let's see what happens in the mice um and so uh we supplyed asaz anthon to our collaborators at the University of
28:30 - 29:00 Hawaii and they found that the levels of foxo3 were increased specifically in the heart tissue um and so that was the first time uh that as that anything you know was shown uh to in improve or increase foxo3 activation in mice with with aanin um and so based on that research finding which built on the prior uh longevity research with Asis anthon our researchers at the University of Hawaii went to the ITP and proposed that they test asan because the way the
29:00 - 29:30 ITP works is each year they'll take uh proposals uh for you know longevity candidates to test um and um they'll get you know a lot of proposals that all you know hopefully have some Merit but then they'll they have their committee and they'll they'll select um the lucky you know five or so agents each year to start in in that Year's cohort and so each year they'll start they'll take a few thousand of these mice split them up into groups with control and the various treatment groups um and then follow them throughout their life spans and so in
29:30 - 30:00 our case um our collaborators at University of Hawaii went to to the ITP and said hey uh we think aanan is a longevity you know molecule of Interest look at our data here in mammals with foxal 3 activation that builds on the other data and the other mechanistic understandings um let's see what happens um and uh ITP agreed that that would be worth um you know studying and so they asked us to then go ahead and and work with them on supplying the material and
30:00 - 30:30 uh so so we not only Supply the ITP with our form of aanan um but we also helped them with the the dosing they did a pilot study before the main study uh to make sure that they could incorporate the aanin into the chow or the feed uh for the mice um and then make sure they could get uh appropriate blood levels um and so we were able to get some preliminary um you know PK data um pharmacokinetic data or at least absorption data with um with the mice um
30:30 - 31:00 and um and then ultimately continue to supply the ases anthon throughout the multi-year study which started in 2019 and ended in 2023 and was published in December 2023 wrote in the study that also the stin has a very good safety profile people ask me in my community about the safety profile especially when they use pretty high doses in in the study so let's speak about the safety profile what are the the possible side effects that people may experience I
31:00 - 31:30 intuitively thought about Pink's skin although I read a study where people have been taking 40 milligrams of atin for like four weeks there was no uh no impact on the skin but we do know that it it is being accumulated in our bodies but uh having pink having pink skin I don't view that as such a huge problem people they just yeah yeah I mean um if it's if it's sexy enough for the the salmon salmon to be that maybe it's good for me as well I'm joking yeah and the
31:30 - 32:00 flamingos yeah yeah exactly and so um so I'll just touch on um we did a study um in cardiovascular patients and in humans that um was 12 weeks of dosing and had it was a randomized placebo controlled trial that um uh explored um lowd dose and high dose uh the high dose was 96 milligram so eight of our 12 milligram capsules um and we did see any uh skin pigmentation you know in that over that
32:00 - 32:30 12we period And Then There Was An Open label extension where people could continue to take 24 milligrams two capsules a day uh for the remainder of of a year and actually because this study was conducted or started just um a year or so prior to the pandemic um it essentially went on hold during the pandemic but people continued to get the open label uh you know product um and continued on for much longer than a year and um at that tail or label extension of the 24 milligrams a day again there
32:30 - 33:00 there were no reports of turning pink or anything like that so I I don't think that's a concern I know with other carotenoids like beta carotene if you eat too much your palms could turn orange for example um and so we haven't seen that with with aanan I'm sure that at a high enough dose um if you did that consistently there could be some skin pigmentation but I think if the doses that are typically used that's certainly not an issue um but in terms of the the safety uh the there was a very robust set of toxicity studies that were done
33:00 - 33:30 um many many years ago actually before the FDA approved asanin to be incorporated into animal feed because it's really it's a really important component of uh feed for salmon uh like Farm Ray salmon are actually fed asanin in their diet uh they're not dyed pink to to some you know some people believe they're artificial but it's not your actin right it's like a synthetic form it's not your actin it's not our acan it is a synthe yeah tell us the difference like
33:30 - 34:00 what people when they buy wild salmon versus farm salmon what kind what type of Asen in and how do they get and how does that affect the longevity benefits potentially yeah so the wild salmon will contain aanin that is naturally uh produced by microalgae and then Works its way up the food chain into the salmon and if you look at the different types of salmon the the the deeper the red or the pink the more aanin it you
34:00 - 34:30 know it contains um and the highest levels per serving maybe you know six or eight milligrams um in a meal of of salmon uh the farm raised salmon will contain asanin that is of synthetic origin um but incorporated into their feed um and um probably has lower levels just because the um the salmon Farmers need to only include enough for the salmon to be um you know colored pink um and but it also importantly helps with
34:30 - 35:00 their um their health and vitality uh their growth and development so it's not just helping them with their color uh which is great for marketing you know a piece of of salmon but also helps the salmon to be stay healthy as as they're growing okay so to clarify so in the wild micro algae produced aanan as a defense mechanism against UV light from the sun um or other you know phop Plankton and it'll work um its way up the food chain and that's how salmon will consume it but for the natural quote natural forms of asanin that are
35:00 - 35:30 on the market in dietary supplement form those are typically extracted from micro algae that is farmed um and so people will um grow the micro algae in man-made systems but it's still the the natural micro algae that you would find in the wild and so you you'll have different types of systems to grow the micro algae 25 years ago um I worked in Kona on the big island of Hawaii um in the ponds uh that grow the micro
35:30 - 36:00 algae that produces asanin and so I worked in in the production there um and uh we launched one of the first two dietary supplements on the market back in that uh 2000 time frame 1999 2000 um doing that type of production though especially the open Pond production is prone to contamination because you're exposed to the Els uh you have the volcano nearby so there's vog you have the airport nearby uh so there's jet fuel you have birds flying over you know I mean it's your your Outdoors um and so
36:00 - 36:30 there there are those potential risks it could be entirely closed uh tubes where you grow the micro algae there there are groups in for example Washington state in the United States and in Iceland that have uh aanin production systems or microalgal you know hocus pluvialis is is the particular type of um microalgae that is uh very good at producing asanin um and so you can either uh grow it these open ponds like on the big island of Hawaii uh where you have these big
36:30 - 37:00 ponds full of you know water and the algae that grows it starts out life green then the sunlight hits it and it turns bright red as the asanin is produced and then you extract out as much of the aanin as possible from the algae um you can also do it like like I mentioned entirely enclosed tubes that would be less prone to contamination but in either case you are producing the micro algae and then extracting the aanin from that algae but you're ending up with about 5 or 10% aanin in that extract from the algae um and then the
37:00 - 37:30 other 90 to 95% is other matter you know content from from the algae which is not the uh a Bad Thing necessarily it's just not the active asanin you know that you're looking for um and so going back to um you know my my origins in this 25 years ago or so um after doing the microalgal production of asanin um you know we thought hey this actually could potentially have pharmaceutical applications giving its you know uh intriguing impacts on oxidative stress
37:30 - 38:00 and inflammation and um but if you want to develop something as a pharmaceutical uh prescription form it has to be highly highly pure and consistent and that is pretty hard to do with a uh with a extract you know from from an algae or or a plant um so we looked we partnered with some of the European manufacturers of synthetic asanin and work with them to uh develop a pharmaceutical form of of asanin and um that was much more pure because you got just the asanin molecule
38:00 - 38:30 and um and then you could either aerify it uh or formulate it U to make it bioavailable um and and this form any different so people out there are going to ask you know what what am I buy when somebody buys Esten in over the counter do they get the what you mention what you mentioned is a higher Purity you get they get more of the active ingredients because I know there are different isomer as well different uh types correct yes so um most of the asanin supplements on the market are the
38:30 - 39:00 microalgal asanin um and in the microalga the aanin has the SS isomer which is if you think of isomers as as like hands the end of the molecule can have either two left hands on either you know a left hand and a left hand on either end of the molecule or two right hands or a left and a right hand um and in the microalgae it's the SS form the kind of two left hands if you will U but in in shrimp or other CR stations you'll find the RR the two kind of right-handed
39:00 - 39:30 forms or the the Miso form which is a a left and a right handed form of the optical isomers um and but we don't have we don't have longevity data on that in humans right on this isomer that in shrimps for example we only have the the all the longevity data we have is on This Ss isomer correct um no not not necessarily correct because the um uh the ITP program um was conducted with our form of uh asanin um which is
39:30 - 40:00 produced by natural product total synthesis and um that is a mix reic mixture of the SS the RR and the Miso um and and so that was demonstrated in the ITP to extend lifespan um it's a mixture of three types of sent in Ence or of the three isomers uh three or four depending on how you think about it it's it's the two it's it's the the left left the SS it's the right right the RR and then you have the SR and the
40:00 - 40:30 RS which are identical so whether you look at it as a one to two to one ratio of ss miso and RR or a one to one to one to one ratio of ss Sr RS and RR ESS it's an even mixture of all the optical isomers so would that be correct that our think thinking about stin is very similar to vitamin E that you have different types of tocopherols uh you know gamma Alpha whatever it's all the same so when we speak about szen I think it helps it helps for the viewer to to
40:30 - 41:00 think to be more smart to to understand what exactly they are buying so when they're buying your product they kind of get full spectrum sent and with the three types correct that is correct and in some cases with other molecules the the isomeric form has a significant difference in safety or biological activity or how binds in a cell like you know it can have a a very important difference with asanin it doesn't appear to have any difference uh from a safety
41:00 - 41:30 standpoint the the safety of uh the mixture of the isomer or individual isomer like SS has both have been tested in fact the most rigorous toxicity testing has been done with the reic mixture which um supports the safety of all the isomers U from an efficacy standpoint um a lot of the basic research for example that's done in the model organisms or a lot of the animal Studies have been done with synthetic asanin which is typically the reic mixture of the isomer the ITP study um that we supplied the material to was the
41:30 - 42:00 synthetic reic mixture of isomers um a lot of the human studies though have utilized the microalgal asanin which is the single SS isomer um and so a lot of the human data is with that um but I think that there is one study out there that was published in 2013 that was commissioned by the head of marketing for one of the microalgal lanthan companies who is not a scientist um that looked in vitro at um anti oxidant performance and in that particular study which I don't think was
42:00 - 42:30 designed properly to get the the same concentration of of the asanin into the system from both natural and synthetic um Origins um that that study you know showed that the natural perform better but for example we have done studies um looking at um you know antioxidant performance with each individual isomer you know kind of um extracted um you know separated out and tested individually and also the mixture of the isomer and the you know superoxide
42:30 - 43:00 annion Scavenging was basically the same across all the isomers or the mixture and that was a well-designed study um that um you know demonstrated that again the diers did not appear to have a difference um as a side note we have synthesized single isomer asanin just the SS like exactly as you would get from the micro algae and we've also tested that in animal proof concept studies in the past and that worked well too so um I don't think the isomeric form
43:00 - 43:30 makes a biological difference um and um and so I think that's kind of some misinformation that's that's been put out there from a marketing standpoint by some of the microalgal asanin companies that that either the SS form is better than the other forms or that the microalgal quote natural form is better than synthetic um I think I think the the microalgal and the synthetic forms have both been demonstrated to be safe and efficacious and so if you can get the aanan molecule to the cell it's
43:30 - 44:00 going to be you know functioning the same I I would believe um it's what's different is how you produce it you know what's the Purity uh what's the consistency batch to batch what's the formulation how well is it absorbed also just are you actually including the appropriate amount in the capsule in the bottle because I know that there are um you know there's uh some uh you know there was a study that was published um showing different brands of asanin and measured the amount of asanin in the capsule compared it to the actual label
44:00 - 44:30 claim of you know 12 milligrams versus actual and a lot of the uh brands on the market were um under uh you know filled they they had an underage and the amount of asanin was less than the label claim you know so there can be those types of differences but if you assume that you adjust for getting the same amount of aanin into the tissues into the cells you know I think whether it came from a natural origin or a synthetic origin the molecule is the molecule it's the same carbon hydrogens and oxygen and the isomers don't appear to have a
44:30 - 45:00 difference um so we think of asanin as asanin U but then you back up uh from a feasibility standpoint and figure out okay what's the best way to make it and deliver it to people um and summary so let's I'm going to create a big picture of what the consumer can get and correct me if if I'm wrong so people when people consume as zantin they can get it from wild salmon for example um farmed salmon from F form salmon they're going to get the synthetic synthetic form which includes
45:00 - 45:30 the three isomer right the SS RS and RR correct they're going to get get three all three of them when they buy when they consume the the uh the wild fish wild salmon they're going to get mainly the one that with the SS right because I guess or I'm sorry because it also consume shrimps so you're going to get both the RR and the SS probably it's mainly the SS I believe there's some of the um miso or RR but I think it's
45:30 - 46:00 predominantly SS if I call recall correctly but in crustations you know shrimp crab Lobster you'll get more of the RR and miso forms and then they can buy a supplement I'm not speaking about your specific brand but the common ones it's usually the SS the natural one is usually the SS when they buy correct correct and in your your specific brand uh they get a mixture or they get also vsss in our brand it's the mixture it's the reic mixture um at and my side note earlier was that we have synthesized the single isomer and tested that and that
46:00 - 46:30 also worked really well but we did not find a difference between single isomer versus the mixture of the isomers and it's easier to produce the uh the mixture and actually the most rigorous toxicity testing was done with the mixture as well uh and so that's why we utilize that form uh for the consumer product but um we do have future plans to also launch a microalgal form um to expand our product line just so that people have choice if if they prefer one form over the other we think that
46:30 - 47:00 scientifically the the synthetic form um you know has the the strongest evidence for for longevity with ITP with safety with the toxicity studies and certainly bioavailability like we tested in humans and Manufacturing Purity that doctors and other health conscious consumers um you know should find important knowing that it's pure and consistent batch to batch capsule to capsule um so so we think the the synthetic form that we refer to as biopure for for our form of banthan is uh optimal U but at the end of the day you know the world just needs
47:00 - 47:30 to know about aanin a lot of people don't even know about it and so whether they get it from a microalgal asanin supplement or a synthetic asanin supplement I think all of that is a win you know just the more people that take asanin the world will be a healthier place um so so that's kind of what we're supporters of in general in the in the foxo experiment you have done with 90% increase in the gene expression in the heart it was used exact one the the the it correct they use the the mixture of the three so the form in the fox3 study
47:30 - 48:00 was our synthetic asanin but in that case it was one of our pharmaceutical candidates that was um a in aerified form I believe of the SS asanin because our for the pharmaceutical purposes from an FDA regulatory standpoint it's easier to develop a single isomer because um the FDA will require you to show safety um you know absorption other things with the different isomers um and so it's even if it biologically doesn't make a difference you have to prove that very
48:00 - 48:30 extensively with the FDA and so we actually had programs in place looking at all the different isomers and it's just it's not really feasible to do so we we did a single isomer synthetic version for for a pharmaceutical development purpose and so we had material on hand that we utilized for the foxo 3 study but whether you have Pro your point it proves your point in essence that it does matter I mean it activates activates longevity and this is the good good time to go to the dose uh my interet when I've done when I look at the ITP it uses something along the I mean I've
48:30 - 49:00 seen they wanted to to put higher dose of acen in but they only managed to get like 46% which is about 1,200 1300 milligrams uh for per 70 kilo human uh am I am I right on on this ballpark they so if people want to know how much santin the ITP G uh gave to the mice am I am I correct when I'm think about like 12,300 per a male like myself um I think a better way to look at it is
49:00 - 49:30 correlating blood levels of of the aanin because um when you look at the uh the dosage used in the ITP um you'll find that it's reported as parts per million in in the Chow in the feed and yes um that was based on trying to mimic the doses that we utilized in our animal proof of concept studies which was often in the 500 milligram per kilogram range and that was where we showed uh the most benefit in the animal studies um and so that was essentially the reason for uh
49:30 - 50:00 the the dosage that was used in the ITP um to your point when they actually did dose analysis of the child to to figure out how much asanin was in the child there was some variability in the results that as reported in the paper um and what we don't know is were there actual uh variations in the amount of asanin in the Chow batch to batch when they made it um or was it something where they analytical methods um were were not optimal uh for the measurement
50:00 - 50:30 because asisan is actually pretty tricky uh from an you know analytical chemistry standpoint um to make sure you have consistent reliable methods um and so there's a bit of an unknown there um but we certainly know that um from based on the pilot feeding study that um the the blood levels were in the several hundred nanog per milliliter um in in the plasma and what we look at humans that human studies that we've conducted um we did a
50:30 - 51:00 human uh pharmacokinetic study um looking at microalgal asanin one of the leading brands on the market and then our form and um um I can discuss that study in more detail in a moment but but for this purpose um we had um uh a maximum concentration of U several hundred nanograms per mil I think it was 480 nanograms per mil um in that s following a single dose um of uh 24 milligrams two cap two 12 milligram
51:00 - 51:30 capsules of our asanin product um and so but I would be I would be the Devil's Advocate and going to say Astin has been accumulated why why would we care so much about blood levels I mean we don't it's being accumulated in fatty tissues in the brain in the eyes in the membranes of the skin yeah and why why would blood levels be such um a good indicator well it's just s get I mean ideally you would have all the tissue levels uh if humans we can't get tissue levels uh easily um and so looking at
51:30 - 52:00 the um the absorption over 24 hours and the halflife can give you an idea of how well it's absorbed and then what type of dosing regimen is optimal in animals you can look at plasma levels and you can look at tissue levels um and we have you know done that in in the past um and so I I think the the best that we have is looking at the plasma levels in humans and the plasma levels in the mice in this study uh and trying to see if we're in in the ballpark um and that's at this point the best that we would have and So
52:00 - 52:30 based on our human PK study um it would it would you would conclude that probably one to two 12 milligram capsules of our form of aanin which is more bioavailable than other forms but one to two 12 milligram capsules of of our you know ax3 asanin um would get you in the range of what the ITP um um you know observed in the mice in the pilot study PRI prior to the main ITP multi-year study so that's probably the
52:30 - 53:00 best idea of of a a correlating dose so your conversion what they use in humans just about one one capsule of Highly absorbable 12 milligrams this is it nothing else yes one to two and then if you try to do it the other way where you look at the actual um you know parts per million or milligrams per kilogram used um in the chow or you know actually you know ingested by The Animals there's several conversion factors you would have to uh factor in there's the typical body surface area conversion um that is
53:00 - 53:30 used by FDA yeah and so based on rodents to humans or or canines humans there's different uh conversion factors but in addition to that um catenoids are not absorbed as well in rodents uh compared to humans um and so there's additional conversion factor that has to be accounted for um and so because otherwise yeah much higher levels lack of life faes or what's whatever yeah I I don't think we know the answer to that question it could that they don't have
53:30 - 54:00 what you say Let me let me stop you there because what you said it's super important it means that the conversion we should not use a regular academical conversion here yeah correct yeah because that would lead to very yeah because if I do the regular conversion I get to like 12200 milligrams and you say it's like it's it's a it's 100 fold less yeah yeah no it's a very it's very hard to get as anthan into rodents um and and so see it's way less efficient that's that's great news for people if
54:00 - 54:30 they want to imitate the results it's a great news yeah it's not it's not great for our You Know M mice pets for example you know that we want to extend their lives U but I mean you can you can feed them enough and and get similar blood levels it's just uh much more on milligram per kilogram of body weight basis um and so yeah to your point so the blood so just to verify so the blood is basically a way to see how much actually gets into the system that's why you feel it's a better measurement as opposed toise consume absorb less okay
54:30 - 55:00 yes yeah and so just because you consume it through food or you know a capsule form tablet form doesn't mean that it's all getting absorbed into your blood into your tissues and so looking at the blood is is much better than just trying to calculate what was the dose up front um and so um yeah that that's a much better way but to your point about the absorption um in humans it might be that um there are particular uh scavenger receptors you know approach Transporters that are um you know uh present in the
55:00 - 55:30 humans that more effectively absorb cids um and even within humans there are uh inter individual variations you know in genes that encode for certain scavenger receptors in the anas sites that may uh promote the absorption of catenoids uh in addition to passive diffusion um and so that's an emerging area of research for catenoids in general not just for asanin and so that it' be really great to know more but it's probably I would
55:30 - 56:00 hypothesize related to that where the mice um maybe from an evolutionary standpoint didn't evolve in a way that um promoted their cottoid absorption unfortunately um so sometimes they even find you know intravenous or other forms of of administration used in rodit models to to you know get it in there uh for uh testing I guess they don't have the history of going to fish they just unlike us exactly so perhaps inherently lived near to the Sea most most of the time yeah yeah and so um so from a
56:00 - 56:30 longevity stpoint from a basic health and potentially increasing lifespan standpoint the best we would know from the ITP data and trying to extrapolate or translate that to humans would be one to two 12 milligram capsules of our highly bioavailable form of asanin but with that said uh you know for example we did a human study like I mentioned in cardiovascular subjects that um had a placebo you know dose um and then a 24 milligram 2 capsule dose as a low and a
56:30 - 57:00 8 capsule 96 milligram high dose and we found that at the 96 milligram 8 capsule dose uh over 12 weeks that there were improvements in terms of reductions of cholesterol um but all important you know LDL and total cholesterol but importantly oxidized LDL which we sent to a special lab to analyze for the oxidized LDL and we saw reduction when you when you compare the 96 versus the 12 you said 96 vers 2
57:00 - 57:30 24 ah so this is already two capsules and you see even improvement with about eight capsules yeah so there is a dose response and that is consistent with animal studies that show dose response uh with inre benefits at higher doses also also in the mortality studies in the fruit flies and the um the worms as well the higher dose perform better in longevity from what I've read yeah and given ases anthon's you know exceptional safety um it doesn't appear to have dose
57:30 - 58:00 limiting toxicity um you know this this is something that you know people can experiment with higher doses but obviously they should work with their doctors or Healthcare professionals and if they're on other medications or supplements or have other you know disorders you know that should all be managed um but generally speaking asanin has been shown to be exceptionally safe and and just to wrap up on the toxicity studies um be the FDA before they allowed asanin from any Source but it was synthetic that was ultimately used for the um you know the the salmon feed
58:00 - 58:30 for example um before the FDA would approve the use of aanin technically as a color additive is what it's classified as from a regulatory standpoint even though it contributes to their health as well um before the FDA approved that there had to be this very extensive robust battery of toxicity studies so included single dose toxicity um at like thousands of milligrams per kilogram of body weight um which had no you know adverse findings there was how long how long well that was a single
58:30 - 59:00 that was a single dose in multiple species and then there was subchronic which is like three months of dosing in multiple species um at probably a couple thousand milligrams per kilogram of body weight which for comparison to humans if we're taking um if we took like you know six capsules a day uh and 72 you know milligrams of of aanin that would be effectively 1 milligram per kilogram of body weight and most people are taking you know a six of that or a third of
59:00 - 59:30 that and so we're taking typically fractions of one milligram per kilogram of body weight these toxicity studies the single dose the sapric were at thousands of milligrams per kilogram but like we talked about before the absorption in um in not just rodents but other animals are not as good um is not as good as as humans um but with that said there were also longer term studies one and twoyear carcinogenic studies at very high doses with no negative findings uh or with no you know adverse
59:30 - 60:00 findings there were um genotoxicity studies looking at DNA damage nothing found there um and developmental and reproductive uh toxicity studies uh looking at mothers and Offspring no issues found there the only finding of any um interest from all of these toxicity studies was in a female rat there was a benign liver lesion that is not clinically relevant or translatable to humans um and that was the only thing
60:00 - 60:30 but if you look at in Europe at the epsa um you know findings or report related to asanin they singled out singled out that one finding from the female rats which was again not clinically relevant to humans but they used that as a dose limiting toxicity and then took the the dose tested lower than that and said okay that's the safe dose of asanin so in Europe the the the quote safe dose of asanin is minimal it's like a couple milligrams a day or something which is
60:30 - 61:00 is um I think not the appropriate conclusion so so so so they're limiting they're limiting the dose you can sell in Europe I live in Europe not that you can sell but what they recommend as what they think is the the the the limit for known safety um but I think that's a a a very extreme conclusion drawn from a single like I said female rat and and with a particular type of uh liver lesion that is not clinically relevant to to humans um and if you take that
61:00 - 61:30 aside all and look at all the other you know studies um looking at safety toxicity there were there were no uh issues um and I think that's also confirmed with the hundred or so human studies done with Asis anthon that have not found any side effects of clinical significance um so question about that yeah so in my community ask me yeah they know that a lot of these fat soluble anti oxidants they tend to interfere especially from land plants as opposed to algae which is a yeah so ocean plant
61:30 - 62:00 so they know they they interfere with the production of free radicals which are essential for for the benefits from exercise have you seen so I have seen the exercise studies I have read they showed that for people who over exercise it reduces the damage in reduces chronic inflammation I read multiple you know in Serbia there was a bunch in Serbia they're very interested in that but I haven't a study that tried to see if there is a negative impact um on antio
62:00 - 62:30 antioxidant activation by exercise in other words does santin is going to offset some of the antioxidant activation coming from free radicals during the intense exercise have you seen anything about that I have not seen anything about that it would be great to explore that further um but you can look at things like in nature salmon obviously consume a lot of aanin and they have to go through a very strenuous long journey Upstream to reproduce and so that um
62:30 - 63:00 that long swim is something that they if if asdan was negatively impacting U these things you you would suspect that maybe it would hinder their ability to um to have that Miracle you know feat of of strength and endurance to to swim upstream um so so there is that um and then in humans um if you look at various uh studies in related to exercise uh and performance you know there there are varying results which I think are probably based on study design and dosing um but if you look at um muscle
63:00 - 63:30 uh development or in particular there was a study in in the elderly looking at sarcopenia which is muscle deterioration and they found that aanin supplementation supported increased muscle size and strength and and so that I think is an important finding 17 humans 1 it was older adults elderly yeah I don't recall the exact age but it's probably old more than 60 I would guess 60 70 80 you know in that age range um but certainly an older adult
63:30 - 64:00 population was where that was demonstrated um I don't know of research looking at the same in uh younger adults uh or you know middle-aged adults and so I think that's an area that would be good to explore further but um a lot of athletes you know triathletes for example have historic have historically used asaz anthon and so I would think that if there were a major issue with its interfering um you know with um with or with a muscle um you know growth that um it wouldn't be so you know well
64:00 - 64:30 utilized in the athletic Community yeah at this point I would agree I think because they showed for example um European footballers footballers people who play football professionally they basically OV exercise and atin in essence reduce HS CRP so it reduces systemic inflammation this and HS CRP also controls controlled by in F2 uh so I so so what it tells me
64:30 - 65:00 that Astin did not offset the activation of nf2 by exercise it just enhanced it uh otherwise I wouldn't otherwise I would not have seen this impact with reduction of HS CRP you know what to talk about the studies I speak speak about so yes I I've seen um there were studies in in the young uh soccer players as we say in the US uh European footballers and and um yeah we've seen reductions in in hscrp uh for instance in our cardiovascular clinical trial when we looked at the diabetic subpopulation there was reductions in
65:00 - 65:30 hscrp as well um and uh it's known to activate Nerf 2 um like you said Nrf2 and and so which has you know an important role in antioxidant anti-inflammatory and other uh you know cular functions um so um yeah I think it most likely doesn't uh have a negative effect on any type of uh things related to exercise if anything it helps you with uh endurance and recovery but you know even though there are more than 3,000 papers with asanin and 100 or so
65:30 - 66:00 human clinical studies there's just so much more that is left to learn and to be discovered so I think additional research in this area would be great to see yes and and you spoke about people ask me about the dose so I I try to to pinpoint the dose as much as possible because to me the the the dose really matters here I mean to me I I think there is big difference in longevity activation between 2 to 4 milligrams to 12 24 36 somewhere there I I think I think there is dose dependency from what
66:00 - 66:30 what I've seen here uh I'm pretty certain about it in the 96 versus 24 study that you have you have seen um did besides effect on cholesterol did you measure anything else maybe hscrp anything that could could because to me cholesterol isn't very good metric for longevity uh I mean it doesn't tell me what happens in the in the DNA level but HS can say maybe Nrf2 was activated anything that that You' have seen those
66:30 - 67:00 difference impact different impact on the dose yeah so the hscrp was reduced in the diabetic subgroup uh in that study and in the overall population um it was reduced but it didn't quite hit statistical significance because um I think the study wasn't quite big enough and unfortunately with hscrp you can have some variability uh in in measurements um you know in individuals and so I think a larger study would have most hopefully most likely demonstrated a reduction of of hsap but other studies
67:00 - 67:30 in humans have demonstrated HS CRP reduction as well um but in that study um it wasn't just cholesterol like I said it was also oxidized LDL and so oxid LDL is a really bad form uh that can contribute to heart issues and which you know the leading cause of death is you know heart you know heart disease um and um if you can you know even though this is a supplement and you can't claim it prevents or treats heart disease maintaining your heart health is really important and so if you can reduce the oxidized you know the oxidation of the
67:30 - 68:00 LDL um and you can reduce inflammation systemically um you know those are things that you would you conclude should you hopefully extend lifespan and health span so it it was better better result with 96 milligrams versus 24 in the oxidized LDL correct it was yeah significant the P value was good it was yeah the the um the P value was it was only statistically significant actually
68:00 - 68:30 in the high dose um and it was um like a 10% reduction uh in the high dose and um the the CRP reduction was about 30% reduction in both uh doses although it didn't like I said um hit statistical significance um again with a larger study uh size or perhaps um modification of the inclusion exclusion criteria to get um more um you know similar patient population you probably could have demonstrated statistical significance uh
68:30 - 69:00 there but like I said there's other studies showing reduction of hscrp in humans but yeah so are the best results in terms of the LDL cholesterol reduction the total cholesterol reduction uh the oxy LDL uh and even blood pressure um was uh all in the the higher dose and that is consistent with um when we look at the blood levels seen in our animal studies that look at various aspects of heart health and liver Health um the the blood levels seen there um were similar to what we've
69:00 - 69:30 uh what we measured um at that high dose uh in humans which like I mentioned before that that 24 milligram single dose we got um around 480 nanograms per Mill um after you know after a single dose um and then in the cardiovascular study when we looked at um the uh after three months of dosing we want we were curious what the blood levels were um and it was around 800 nanograms per M um
69:30 - 70:00 in the uh 24 mgram daily dosing for 12 weeks and uh more than 2,000 um 2, to 25500 nanograms per Mill in the uh higher dose 96 milligram dose over 12 weeks um and so again that's not measuring tissue but it's measuring the plasma as a surrogate um and showing uh increase it's not a linear increase of aanin um you know but it's certainly the blood levels reduced do you think dividing the dose do you think dividing the dose you know for example qu Q10 if you divide the dose I
70:00 - 70:30 know with my my clients they're going to get better Coke qu Q10 blood levels do you do you think in Esten there is a a limitation to the absorption of humans per one dose so we need to separate the dose perhaps we haven't tested that uh I imagine you could overwhelm the system with too much at once potentially um but especially theice especially the mice have limitation what why why would would we not have some limitation at some point mhm yeah exactly and so um that
70:30 - 71:00 again would be interesting to to explore um our Studies have been either single dose or um you know twice a day dosing morning and evening um and that was um for multiple considerations you know for that cardiovascular study uh we did morning and evening dosing to split the dose so rather than taking eight capsules at once you would just do four in the morning four at night it just makes it a little bit easier uh to do and like you said potentially splitting it up may have um give your gut you know
71:00 - 71:30 a better chance to absorb as much as possible but we haven't studied side by side or head-to-head you know like uh one capsule morning and night versus two capsules at once or four capsules morning night versus eight at once that would be interesting to explore um just to see blood levels you know to see the impact on blood levels would be very interesting yeah it would yeah maybe like 24 24 24 or or 48 at once will be interesting one yeah yeah exactly and but from a half-life standpoint so if you're looking at the
71:30 - 72:00 pharmacokinetics typically if you have something that has a 2 24-hour halflife then that is conducive to Once daily dosing and so from when you look at it from a pharmacokinetic standpoint it's perfectly fine to take once a day you know that that's kind of an optimal dosing for um an agent that has a approximately a 24hour halflife that that's good for daily dosing um so what you say half life you speak about half life in the blood yes in the blood yeah because again hard you know you can't get multiple samples from tissue in the same it tells me that
72:00 - 72:30 santin doesn't just go and accumulate immediately in the brain it just hang on in the blood it takes some time to be become integrated into the membranes right it's it's not immediate integration we're talking about some process it goes through a process and yeah so it has to uh go through you know the the the gut um and um it'll get uh packaged into my cells you know with B salt and and lipids um and then you know absorbed AC CR you know through the anas
72:30 - 73:00 sites and then it'll get you packaged with lipo proteins and distributed throughout the body um and so it protects those lipoproteins like ox like LDL from oxidation but then uses those to be distributed to the major organs and so yeah it takes time to to get to the organs and then um and if you're taking every day then it hopefully continues to uh you know replenish uh the very interesting the uh to see the impact on the way described it because it's been carried by the lipoproteins what
73:00 - 73:30 would be the impact on the plaque plaque formation because we know plaque formation begin begins with the accumulation of the apob B molecules but maybe if EST is going to be there and the immune system comes maybe the re the the reaction of the immune system to the accumulation of the APO B molecules that being stuck in the blood vessels maybe it's going to be less violent who knows yeah and so um so again with the caveat that we can't um promote asanin as a
73:30 - 74:00 drug to prevent or treat disease there's a lot of interesting research um you know for example in in animals looking at um cardiovascular applications and so for instance we did a study with a collaborator at the University of California San Diego uh who had a model looking at atherosclerosis or plaque buildup in the arteries of mice um and these mice were genetically pre disposed um to accumulate uh plaque in their arteries and so we looked at um you know
74:00 - 74:30 Placebo low do and hose um and we demonstrated through Imaging a reduction of the plaque in the aortic Arch um of the of the mice uh a very significant reduction um so to your point yeah I mean I think we we would see reductions in the plaque which is really important um it also impacts uh platelet aggregation we dem we had multiple studies in both rodents and canines showing prevention of primary and
74:30 - 75:00 secondary um occlusion or thrombosis um you to the to the audience my wife she had a stroke and pl aggregation basically causes the claw to be formed in the first place and she had a CL going to her brain so the plation yeah so the platelet aggregation just for for the audience to understand uh really uh so so the atherosclerosis makes reduces the space for blood to go in but the clot comes and and give the the final blow to the whole situation so
75:00 - 75:30 and if it's all inflamed and oxidized it's more likely you know to um to have you know a soft plaque you know uh create a clot so it's it's something that you definitely want to reduce the oxidative stress in the environment but also reduce the plaque buildup you know itself and the plet aggregation by the way any studies are going to ask send me afterwards I can put in the description for people to to look themsel themselves just to close the the the dose aspect of it for me I began to suspect about the
75:30 - 76:00 higher dose does a better job because of the longevity studies I mentioned the fruit flies and the and the worms any indication that led you maybe to suspect that higher besides the 96 versus 24 milligram study in humans any indication that led you to believe that maybe we need to go higher than 4 milligrams 12 milligrams anything that gives you this hint oh yeah so mult thing so of course there's there's um hundreds of animal studies and in vitro studies all uh or I
76:00 - 76:30 would say many showing a dose uh dependent response and so higher dosing it would be thought to have better results and so there's just lots of studies supporting that um but then also just anecdotally so so not scientifically but just feedback from our community or just the community of people taking asanin or even just people in my family or friends um my father or you know he plays tennis very often and he's found that higher Doses and he's in
76:30 - 77:00 his mid-70s and plays singles Hardcore Tennis multiple times a week and he's found that higher doses have really helped him with his uh joint mobility and same thing for his his tennis partners and and they're they're really pushing when he when he said higher doses helped him just what you speaking I mean he's experimented at a range of doses um and so uh he has worked even as high and we wouldn't necessarily recommend this because is Not Practical and not widely studied at this level but he is taking and his buddies are taking on the order of 16 capsules a day of our
77:00 - 77:30 product you know so double the the high dose in our cardiovascular study and and finding inre benefits there yeah yeah and so yeah and so um that's where you just supports that higher dosing is typically GNA have um you know hopefully should have a better result but again um and I think that is covered from a safety standpoint with the toxicity studies um but it's not something that we would promote or recommend that everyone take but I think the important
77:30 - 78:00 takeaway is that you can start at the one or two capsules a day uh of 12 milligrams um of our highly bioavailable form and then you can give yourself a few months and you can do self assessment of you know how your joints and muscles feel or uh cognitive function or skin or eyes energy levels you can you can assess those things sleep Etc and see how you're feeling um you can also measure biomarkers like we talked about HS CRP or cholesterol or liver enzymes or other uh important biomarkers of interest and see you know
78:00 - 78:30 say after 12 weeks or so um you know if you're noticing um you know improvements in areas that are of interest to you or maintaining things that you really want to maintain and then you can adjust your dose because um there is going to be variation in individual absorption um and this is you know something that's true for catenoids in general and so not everyone will absorb catenoids or asanin in particular the same and so I think people ultimately if they want to optimize will have to titrate their dose um what would
78:30 - 79:00 be cool to have uh is a consumer diagnostic to uh get the blood levels tested for aesan because I think if you could tie trait to a blood level that probably be much better than a dosage level um we have methods to analyze asanam in plasma but that's you know at a a private laboratory it's very expensive and it's not conducive to Consumer applications but that is a future um aspiration um because I think it would help people find an appropriate dose evidence is there evidence that all
79:00 - 79:30 people they absorb less I mean if we're going to speak about absorption as blood levels do you do do you think there is evidence maybe because the absorption seems a bit tricky do you think all people like A7 they need a bit more because they absor absorb less um that's possible I don't know of evidence to show that or not um you know there's been studies looking at ATP production in young and geriatric dogs showing benefits you know in both at the same dose and and so um but I don't know
79:30 - 80:00 in humans um I I think again you'd have to do a side by-side test um and see or even follow someone and see if their levels actually decline with age and so that's um at this point we wouldn't know um but I think what regardless of of the case uh that you know that you would have there you'd want to look at you know your biomarkers or other you know self assessments of of health or longevity um and and adjust your dose and given the safety um you know there shouldn't be any issues of of major toxicity you
80:00 - 80:30 know that you would typically find with um you know other supplements or or drugs and so you can try a different dose go up or down and then adjust accordingly um the one caveat I'll mention regarding dosage as well is that you it's not just the active ingredient just the aanm you know there's also the other components of the formulation you know the the composition of the caps the um if it's uh you know if it's suspended in oil what type of oil or in
80:30 - 81:00 our case yeah let's about the absorption because you use your company use a special formula so I'm going to tell my very poor understanding and correct me and tell me how you do it better so my would my understanding is that santin is um esterified esterified which means that we need the the the enzymes that digest the fat to be around to to cut the link and only then to be absorbed but um I've got a feeling this is not really what happens here so can you explain should it be
81:00 - 81:30 taking with fat and your formula I mean most companies they sell it with some fat some sunflower oil or olive oil and in in your formula you use a mixture of carbs of some sort and um so maybe you can explain the absorption of AC antin should it be taken with meal without meal and how your formula is different from what is being commonly sold on the market sure so so the the microalgal aanin is typically uh aerified and so if
81:30 - 82:00 you look at the extract of the asanin the majority of it will be monoesterified so they'll have aanin aerified with a particular you know a mixture different fatty acids but they'll be it'll be aerified with um a particular fatty acid um and then you'll you'll have some D cerified forms so acanthine is cified with fatty acids on both end of the molecule and a little bit of aerified acanth just asanin the molecule itself um but there's probably 10 or 15 different fatty acids that are
82:00 - 82:30 stfi with aanin either mono or di cified in that extract from the algae um and to your point in order to be absorbed uh when it gets into the gut you'll have to have the lipases you know for example you know you have to have the the enzymes to cleave um you know hydroly um you know the the ERS and essentially deliver the aanin you know for absorp you know into the body um in the case of um our pharmaceutical development we
82:30 - 83:00 aerified acanth with amino acids that made the um um the the molecule very water dispersible but again um you know the Esters would be cleaved and you would be delivering non aerified aanin to the bloodstream to to the tissues in the case of our that is going to going to happen before the absorption unlike you know kated uh minerals where some of them yeah it's not kated really it's just yeah no no it just helps for the dispersion in the gut um but then from there it gets cleaved and I guess at a
83:00 - 83:30 high enough level you might get a very small amount of the aerified form getting across but it it will still at at some point in the plasma or tissue it it will be cleaved and you would only have the non-esterified form um so it's not like you're delivering the aerified form to the cells but I think I think you have done very something very useful because uh it's very difficult to be dependent on the light Paces because we don't make a lot of them and with the I guess you need a some kind of protease or some sort to cut the the so we have
83:30 - 84:00 way more enzymes that going to cut the santin in the right time correct I mean we yeah and so but but with the with our supplement form it's non-esterified and and so but the thing is if you just take aanin non-esterified you know synthesize it in the lab highly pure crystallin asanin and you don't aerify it it's not well absorbed at all whether you put it in oil or water whatever it's we've done studies it's Flatline no Asin detected in terms of it in the blood it's not
84:00 - 84:30 well absorbed so you have to somehow either aerify it to I think allow for that dispersion in the gut um and incorporation with the fats uh or you have to formulate it um in a way which in our case with our formulation um it utilizes uh like you said carbs it utilizes a starchy Matrix and so you take the tightly packed crystallin aanin that's kind like a brick that your body can't really absorb and you disperse it into a cloud or a Mist like a matrix of
84:30 - 85:00 food starch which uh if you think of a nice cloud of of of starch that acanthine can then stick to um there's also a little bit of glucose syrup in there uh less than a tenth of half a gram per capsule so very very minimal amounts that would be considered sugar-free from an FDA standpoint um but to help stick it together and a little bit of cornstarch just to make sure that the call it beadlet particles of the formula don't Clump and sck together um you know in the capsules um and so but that
85:00 - 85:30 formulation allows the asanin to be water dispersible which is a bit counterintuitive because you think of it as being fat soluble but I the hypothesis is that in your gut fluid which is aquous in in the in the GI fluid if you can disperse the aanin formulation uniformly or nicely in the GI fluid then the normal process of incorporation of aanin into the mixed my cells with the bio salts and the lipids and then it asanin gets absorbed along with the fats um and so your body um it
85:30 - 86:00 will best absorb aanin with a meal containing fats and so that's why with your formulation your product so they always need to take it with fat with meal anyway yeah and even if you have uh one with the oil suspension like from the micro algae the amount of oil in that capsule is pretty small you know and and that's and I think ideally based on the research I've seen with catenoids in general like beta carotene and things you'd want to have um probably a few grams of fats you know um a bit more for
86:00 - 86:30 your body to work with than just you know a small amount in a capsule I mean that would that would be better than nothing um but I think ideally you have a meal that has some fats in it um you know like a a nice lunch or breakfast or dinner that has some fat content and then following the meal after your body is now starting to process those fats you take the aanem and in our case the water dispersible formulation which you can either swallow the capsule or capsules or you can even open up the capsule and put it into water or a shake and and it'll go right in whichever way
86:30 - 87:00 you prefer um but then it it gets it dispersed in the GI fluid and then absorbed the same way that fats are and then brought into the body that way so meiz yeah let me summarize what you said and uh then tell me about the differences so for the consumer in Ence um they have two options they can buy the one the santin with oil oils in that that situation it's going to get aerified santin they would have to take it with fat in your situation we can say it's
87:00 - 87:30 like evenly dispersed non-esterified santin right it's like different U yeah it's non-esterified evenly disperse estin now a company that competes with you going to say okay so what's the big deal they going to get why why would you even why did you even bother to formulate this way if we're going to get the absorption with the normal santin yeah so we did a head-to-head human study so we took uh one of the leading brands of microle ases anthon on
87:30 - 88:00 the market bought the bottle off the shelf um and got a group of human volunteers uh healthy normal AED adults and gave them two 12 milligram capsules of the microalgal asanin so the esterified form in oil um and then collected their their blood at multiple time points over 24 hours you know like one hour two hours four hours eight you know and onward throughout 24 hours uh sent those samples to the laboratory and we have highly precise analytical
88:00 - 88:30 methods that use like carbon 13 labeled aanin that we specifically synthesized so you can really quantify the exact amount of aanin in uh the sample and and then we had those volunteers uh go home for a week and um not take uh any asanin supplement of course and also not consume foods like salmon containing high amounts of asanin and then come back a week later and then gave them two 12 migam capsules of our asanin product the non-esterified form in the starchy
88:30 - 89:00 formulation um powder in a capsule um in both cases they had a normal standard meal and this is at a professional um contract research organization um and um again collected their blood uh for 24 hours after administration of the 24 milligram 22 capsule dose and when we compared the blood levels we got three times the maximum concentration the cmax um again that was around 480 nanograms
89:00 - 89:30 per mil with the with our form and um you know 150 or 60 nanograms per mil with the microalgal form and then when we looked at the total exposure over 24 hours which is the area under the curve of all of those time points that was also approximately three times um the absorption three times um three times the blood the the blood level but you know again looking at cmax as well as um the the maximum concentration as well as the total exposure of the Au over 24
89:30 - 90:00 hours and the interindividual variation the the the levels that each of those five individuals had of aanon was more variable in the microalgal group than with the um with our form the synthe a gamble he less of a but these were the same people it's not just two groups of five people it's the same people and and there was more consist absorption in addition to three times the absorption that could also POS a risk for older population I think um when they have
90:00 - 90:30 such a variability uh it could be that that your product gives more um confidence in the absorption they're going to get it so and so we found that that does give confidence to doctors when we talk to them because we have our roots in um in pharmaceutical research for a decade of you know looking at asanin as a pharmaceutical agent and so you know um that's really our world is is the science and and communicating that and so when we launched our consumer product
90:30 - 91:00 um you know a few years back we um reach out to the physician community and the healthcare professional community and and discuss these um you know properties of the formulation and and the the research results and a lot of doctors are skeptical of supplements you know because of you know the claims the science and Manufacturing and so this was something where we we like to think of it as having somewhat The Best of Both Worlds where you have um a very RoR you know production you know kind of like a phaik production of a but of a naturally occurring molecule and so
91:00 - 91:30 you're not giving the you know um an individual um a molecule that was not present in nature that chronically inhibits or activates something that's not natural for the body but this is a natural molecule that has been shown to be very safe and have a lot of important Health and Longevity benefits but is being produced in a way that a healthcare professional or health conscious you know consumer can have confidence in that it's pure it's consistent it's well absorbed it's consistently absorbed um so so that's one thing that we found was um you know really powerful with with the
91:30 - 92:00 professional Community how many people do you use in the St the absorption study do you remember the absorption study was was five uh healthy individuals so yeah it's not the largest study but it's it's randomly selected five healthy individuals um the uh cardiovascular study that I mentioned um was about uh 40 to 60 people we had an interim review at 40 subjects and then um continued to enroll and and and got up to 60 subjects one with a plaque the one with a plaque no with the oxy LDL
92:00 - 92:30 and blood pressure and the plaque the plaque was an animal study that that was a mouse study so the consumer gets three probably 3x absorption plus the confidence in the lower variability so they they know have more certainty they're going to get into their system very very interesting I have a question about the storage a person buys the zantin should the storage in the fridge what would you recommend uh also your brand compared to maybe other brands um
92:30 - 93:00 maybe your brand has different storage conditions yeah I I think for the most part most brands are are are generally the same in terms of um room temperature storage you know in in the the cupboard or or um you know kitchen counter where wherever it may be you know convenient to remember to take it um is probably fine that wouldn't be optimal for an absolute long-term storage like if if we've had samples for example for research purposes that we've stored um not just in the refrigerator but like in
93:00 - 93:30 the freezer um and and that and we've stored those for you know a decade and then brought them out and did a study and then it works you know and and we've also done statistical um you know modeling of shelf life um in various storage conditions um and you know if you protect the asanin not only from light but from moisture and oxygen um it can potentially based on our modeling be stable for decades like we predicted a median um shelf life like a a 50% probability that it would still meet the
93:30 - 94:00 label claim of the amount of aanin in the sample like 50 years later um and so that was in the freezer right that was like a like a vacuum sealed bag what about what about room temperature like because when I buy I don't know how how long is it going to sit in the warehouses what what will be the concern in that sitation yeah so generally you have a couple year two three years of recommended shelf life but that's because not only is it not protected from uh it's mainly that it's not protected from Air you know and and and
94:00 - 94:30 so but if you were say to vacuum seal it or uh store it under nitrogen or argon like AER atmosphere so the oxygen is not getting to the asanin then it can it can last for much longer but for for normal purposes you know if if it's produced and it's sitting in a warehouse and then it's sitting on your shelf if you're consuming it within a couple years it's going to still be fine and it's not like it spoils you know like milk or something if anything the amount of asanin Might degrade over time and so if the label claim was 12 milligrams and we
94:30 - 95:00 always include some overage when we produce it to start just to make sure that we for sure have enough in the label claim uh to meet the label claim and if it's stored for many years at room temp exposed to the air that it'll still be 12 milligrams through the shelf life Best Buy Date printed on the package um you know but even if you went beyond that um if anything it's probably just slightly below the label claim of you know 12 maybe it's 11.8 or 11.5 or 11 milligrams and so um that from a
95:00 - 95:30 shelf life standpoint it's very good I mean if you wanted to have the optimal shelf life yeah you you'd probably vac put them in a vacuum sealed bag and put it in the refrigerator um and you probably could sort for much longer but once you you know uh bring it into your house and start taking it I it doesn't make a difference like because these things take time and and we've done accelerated stability studies looking at um higher temperatures higher humidity um and it can still be good you know for the amount of degradation that you see
95:30 - 96:00 over many months of time at those levels um you know supports that at normal conditions it would be good for for many years so for for the average consumer that's just going to buy it and use it um yeah don't leave it outside in the sun expose open air you know to um keep yours in the fridge yours yours keep in the fridge I I just keep mine I just keep keep mine on my kitchen counter so that way after after dinner it's easy for me to grab I normally take I take four capsules uh you know 48 milligrams a day and I'll just do that after dinner for me that's the easiest because um you
96:00 - 96:30 know breakfast lunch is not always as consistent in terms of timing um and so dinner is always a good time for me to take it so that's what I do and it works perfectly perfectly you don't divide you take everything at once a B I do but but yeah again it'd be interesting to actually do the study of you know uh splitting morning and evening versus single dose but I think either one is fine there's going to be variation between individuals anyway um so I I think it's something that people the most important thing is to take it and
96:30 - 97:00 take it consistently so whatever is conducive to doing that if it's easier to split it or easier to take it all at once I think that you know whatever allows you to take it consistently that that's going to be the best by the way about the previous subject we spoke about if you were to speculate somebody took somebody's healthy it took hentin how long would it stay in his body until it's going to be oxidized what would be the the actual of the molecule in the human body that is does does not have does not suffer from excess oxidation
97:00 - 97:30 rate that's a good question yeah I'm not sure um um I I don't know on that one um but um again that would be really interesting to to study because your body is always producing reactive oxygen species and and your cells are you know facing those insults on a regular basis just from normal you know energy production and and everything that's happening and you have endogenous systems to fight that but those endogenous systems you know decline over time and also you can ramp up you know the amount of reactive oxygen species or
97:30 - 98:00 other free radicals based on whatever it may be you know exposure you know to um you know uh you know bad food or or pollution or stress you know exercise and infections yeah all these things right and so is there good evidence that s can protect us from uh x-ray C scan even even flights either good good evidence that he does I don't know of evidence in that area I mean the evidence is more related
98:00 - 98:30 to uh you know UV damage from the Sun but I don't know that we've looked at uh those types of things um you know it would be interesting to see I mean presumably it might um but yeah I'm not I'm not familiar with research specifically on that yeah yeah yeah so um I think it would be reasonable to hypothesize that and it'd be cool to study that by the way um because the santin either way either formulation it goes is absorbed via the
98:30 - 99:00 the fat absorption system that we have with mol and all of that do you think some of that also goes through the lymph as well or it goes directly to the blood so it could be uh you packaged with kyom microns and then go through the lymph and and uh but also could be like an HDL pathway and so again that's that's areas that for catenoids in general and Anthem is being further explored um but um but yeah it's ultimately it gets packaged with the
99:00 - 99:30 lipoproteins and distributed um but that is an area that would require further uh characterization or elucidation um you know as we expand the research yeah okay yeah so so so in ense yeah we kind of get gonna get the small amounts just my imagination small amounts go some of that going to go through the blood some of that going to go through the lymph and entering the blood at some point uh let's say that now I know that at some point it's going to be accumulating fatty tissues like brain skin the eyes from the time you take
99:30 - 100:00 it what how long does it take does it take it to go to the brain the eyes um yeah let's see well in humans we don't know that because we can't do tissue samples in humans um and in animals we haven't done uh when we did the tissue collection and analyzed it would be for example after you know 8 weeks of dosing and you know or 12 weeks of dosing and we want to just measure at that point when we're looking at the efficacy results could we correlate it
100:00 - 100:30 with tissue levels you know and confirm it got to certain tissues like the brain or the heart um and on the pharmaceutical development pathway you can do things um like um like radiol labeled um you know asanin which we have actually produced in the past and had developed for our pharmaceutical development where you can actually dose it and then you know um unfortunately sacrifice animals that various time points and look at um where the uh label aanin um occurs you know and you could see at different time points how it goes
100:30 - 101:00 throughout the system in terms of absorption distribution metabolism and then excretion you know adme studies as they're called um and so that's something that I think would be really interesting to know but I don't know exactly uh how long it takes to get into the tissues um but it is something that from a cons anecdotal standpoint people report some people report benefits uh quickly you know with within within days or or you know hours or days they feel
101:00 - 101:30 better whether that's placebo effect or real effect you know who knows um and whether that's a systemic you know result of of you know it's it's in the blood it's being systemically distributed and you're getting some initial quenching of oxidative stress or reduction of inflammation that's having an effect um versus how F it's in the tissues and and not just how fast it gets to the tissue because I mean it's being distributed throughout the plasma so some is getting into the tissue um but in terms of how quickly it's accumulating in the tissue and how fast you have a biologically relevant amount
101:30 - 102:00 of asanin in a Target organ um and so those are things that if you know how much of the asan you need to have in a particular tissue to have biological effect and you can correlate that then knowing how long it takes to get there that would be a really interesting uh answer uh but that's again we wouldn't have that result um but practically um most people if they are uh reporting some benefit that they can feel because not everyone feels a benefit like a
102:00 - 102:30 vitamin you know something that you know is helping you but you may not feel it but for a lot of people um you know they will will feel a benefit and it could be days or weeks or months you know and and again that may depend on their absorption or their internal state of oxidative stress or inflammation kind of what they're dealing with um so in terms of practically I think days to weeks is probably amount of time where you would start to have enough getting into your system it's not one of those supplements you take one day you don't feel great then this is it there is a cumulation
102:30 - 103:00 that takes place behind the scenes that you need to take into account yeah I it's working at a fundamental level getting into cellular membranes and fighting off free radicals and so this is something that needs to act over time to really have the you know the optimal results but my understanding is correct it's being accumulated more in the brain in the eyes and the in the skin in humans uh well and the heart and the liver are you know like when we've done our animal studies you know those are very high um accumulating organs like the liver is has a very large amount of
103:00 - 103:30 aanin that gets accumulated which is a good thing and we've done studies showing that it helps um you know prevent liver damage or or reduce liver enzymes and things um so Li heart brain eyes skin the muscle is more like um they have a lot of water and protein would you say that santin is not accumulated to the same degree in those station you mentioned compared to the muscles would that be correct probably yeah I don't know um I don't recall if we have data on that in
103:30 - 104:00 muscles specifically I know we have um you know efficacy in terms of like I talked about in sarcopenia with muscle growth and strength um but yeah you would hypothesize that there would be more in in the other tissues uh and we certainly have found high levels in uh in in the other tissues and we could certainly follow up on that I don't recall uh exactly but the important thing is that it gets you know distributes s gets to the major areas and you've seen benefits in heart health in Liver Health in skin Health in Eye Health brain health regarding the eye
104:00 - 104:30 though I'll mention that um lutein and zanthin are actually I believe there's like a receptor that that brings uh them into the macula of the eye and um they're kind of like aanin for the eye structurally they're very similar they're actually not quite as optimal of aoid as as asanin because asanin has both the hydroxy and ketone grp group on the ring mues at the end of the molecule that gives it more polarity allows it to better span and anchor across the
104:30 - 105:00 cellular membranes and uh provides less disruption or doesn't disrupt the membrane as compared to other catenoids especially non oxygenated like beta keratine catenoids but ltin and zanthin get importantly to the macula aanin doesn't um preferentially accumulate there like like those coronoids and and those crinoids ltin zanin um the levels of those in your macula are inversely correlated with your risk for age related macular degeneration so as the levels of those go down in your macula
105:00 - 105:30 your risk of age related macular degeneration goes up and there's been you know major studies with supplements containing uh ltin and zanthin and some other antioxidants showing that um it can have an important benefit on age related macular degeneration and so with aanin um it's not necessarily accumulating you know in the eye or at least not in large levels but it's probably more the the iic um you know effect that it's it's benefiting the eye because there are eye improvements visual Acuity tier production reduction of Ro in in tiers and things that um
105:30 - 106:00 that have been demonstrated so there certainly is an eye benefit um but I think um there are those other cot noids that also are great for the eye and with Asis anthon I think that most of the benefits would be certainly lifespan as an overall health longevity but heart liver brain skin those are areas that for sure you'll have um you know a lot of data supporting it its use you have very good brain power oh thank you must be the ass of anthon but um no I mean I just I've been living it for a long time
106:00 - 106:30 so um yeah it's uh always fun to chat especially with someone that wants to actually dig into it uh a bit more so the fact that you're already up to speed on a lot of it is is cool um so it's great I'm the consumer I want to know what's the do I need to take and uh should I divide it all those things um because I know the devil they in details I know with my clients there's a big difference between between the dose I personally think that low dose is going to give me radiation protection uh but I think longevity
106:30 - 107:00 activation we need more of dose that's what I my got feeling I I'm yeah I'm pretty positive about it I just need to pinpoint the dose people ask me I also publish U my supplement routine with all the updates of the research and I I I'm I'm not absolutely sure I I put like 26 to to 20 I'm I'm going to experiment with 24 to 36 milligrams per day and after the the conversation with you I feel it's right now feels like about the right dose made me think maybe maybe I
107:00 - 107:30 need to divide if they not need to divide it supports the idea to take it with food with fat not with food with meals technically they it should not be a fatty meal right I mean just any meal it's fine well a meal that contains fats so you wouldn't just have a you know an orange or something you know but yeah a meal that has fats in it like a normal meal is fine doesn't have to be a highly fatty meal but just a normal meal with fat content yeah would be would be fine and like you said 24 milligrams 36
107:30 - 108:00 milligrams um I think we find that two to four capsules a day 24 to 48 milligrams um has been The Sweet Spot for a lot of people um but I I certainly think one or two capsules a day as a starting point is perfectly reasonable and as a base case for maintaining health and supporting longevity like we said the blood levels um that probably is putting you in the range of having those long-term benefits but like we talked about you know more is often correlated with you know higher uh with with better results um so I
108:00 - 108:30 think it's it's up to the individual how much they want to take but also like I said individual variation in absorption so I don't think there is going to be an answer for this is the dose you know this is the dose to take there may be an answer in terms of this is the blood level you want that we don't yet know um but I think it's what what we could know is or say is this is the dose to start with you know which we we say take two capsules a day for example um as a starting point but you can start at one if you want or start it at four or three three or four if you'd like and then and then adjust but give yourself you know
108:30 - 109:00 one to three months look at things that you can assess or biomarkers um and then adjust accordingly um but otherwise if you don't feel anything or measure anything you're generally in good health but you want to do everything possible to maintain good health and and promote your health span and lifespan then I think you can maintain you know a dose of you know anywhere in one from one to four capsules a day probably would be a good safe bet um but I think more research you know will be conducted and and we'll get a better understanding potentially of of optimal doses or or
109:00 - 109:30 ultimately blood levels that are you know best suited for particular Health applications or for longevity itself any reason that you may think people need to cycle it maybe take one day off two days off any indication about that no I don't think so I mean because if anything you want to just maintain levels and then continue to um you know distribute it to your tissues and and and replenish it and and so uh it's again it's not something like rapidy where you have you know side effects or tolerability issues
109:30 - 110:00 where recycling it may help you mitigate or get around some of those things or in the case where you're chronically inhibiting or chronically activating something in the cell you know in a way that maybe gives you some type of benefit but is not how your body was intended to function so in those types of instances with other agents cycling on or off may be necessary but with aanin the way it localizes in your cellular membranes you know the outer plasma membrane but also the nuclear membrane the mitochondrial membranes and the the membranes of the other cellular
110:00 - 110:30 organel um it's just helping to support your endogenous antioxidant systems fight off the free radicals and and kind of restore homeostasis in the cell and so I don't think that cycling on and off with that is going to give you a benefit so I mean from a mechanistic you know hypothesis I think just having it on board consistently is going to give you your best result with that said you would have to actually have studies where you test consistent dosing versus cycling on and off and see um and I
110:30 - 111:00 don't know of any research looking at that specifically uh or anecdotally um I don't know of people um having benefits that have tried cycling on or off if anything um like my my my aunt for example told me that she stopped taking she forgot you know to uh take it for a little while and she noticed that her hips or knees weren't feeling as great anymore um and then when she started taking again she felt you know good again um and so um that type of cycling I I've heard of um but um certain not
111:00 - 111:30 from a performance standpoint yeah not taking is not a good cycling yeah exactly so in my community longevity hackers they ask me about the impact on testosterone I'm I'm quoting the the question I've heard negatively impact hormonal function in men I've come across discussion in Reddit that it may inhibit Alpha reducto the enzyme responsible for converting testosterone into DHT any um anything that you know about the impact on Sexual Health both
111:30 - 112:00 men and and women yeah so asanin I think has been shown to improve testosterone levels um and U that thought to be by protecting the testosterone producing L cells in the testes from oxidative stress so I think it it helps to promote testosterone production um but like you said there is a potential inhibition or at least research showing um on the conversion of testosterone to DHT um and so um I think
112:00 - 112:30 more research needs to be done there um to explore that um but I think that is uh what the research has shown with that said um you know in terms of anecdotal feedback from our community um we've had reports of people saying that they have increased libido and you know sexual you know health and performance um and so I I think there uh I know that there are some discussions online saying potentially um that someone had
112:30 - 113:00 decreased libido but then I think others commented and replied that that was not their experience um and so um again it's it's probably something where you have to look at um you know what else are they taking what else are they doing lifestyle all of these things to really know you know scientifically uh is it having an effect but I don't know of any uh clinical studies in humans um demonstrating a um observable you know manifestation of decreased libido or erectile dysfunction or anything like that because um in terms of erectile you know uh function or dysfunction you know
113:00 - 113:30 blood flow is important and acanthine does increase nitric oxide and blood flow and so if anything you know that could promote um you know healthy erectile you know function um and we've had reports from you know people in our community that that they have had benefits in those in those areas um so I think more research needs to be done uh in that area but I I don't think you can definitively say that it's negative uh you know for for male hormones necessarily certainly it helps to protect the testosterone production at
113:30 - 114:00 at the testes um and also if you look at the conversion the conversion to DHT which I I don't see is a huge problem because also affects male pattern boldness as well but but but have you have you seen evidence that it affects this conversion from testosterone to DHT I've seen some published literature in that area but again I don't you know again can you is it replicated how well is s designed and and so is research out yeah yeah there's not a whole lot of data in this area so um
114:00 - 114:30 so it's out there but again I think more research would need to be done in particular in humans to to know um you know what is really conclusive here but in terms of say reproductive Health um you know which is not exactly the same but if you look at sperm quality and performance you see benefits there um with with asanin so supplementation um so you know the the sperm linear velocity the oxidation of the sperm um you know lipid membranes the
114:30 - 115:00 mitochondrial function in the sperm you know all these things have shown improvements with a with asanin as well and and and certainly in the wild or in like say Farm raise salmon um it does promote um you know the the reproduction and development it supports that and um and so I think that uh from that standpoint it's been shown to be uh beneficial uh and then with with uh with women it is shown to reduce oxidative stress um to you know to promote Hormone
115:00 - 115:30 Health in women as well um so with all that said that is an area of research that does require further you know uh exploration to really understand further so um but I I don't think you could conclusively say that it's um not good for male hormones or um you know specifically for you know testosterone DHD um so but that's I think the extent of of what is known there's still a lot to be understood even though there's like I said 3,000 peerreview papers and 100 clinical studies uh but you really
115:30 - 116:00 need to do a lot more research to have definitive conclusions uh about these things yeah so not enough data we don't know exactly yeah we don't have good evidence to say that at this point I would like to add a few things it's important to note that David rightly separated between testosterone levels and DHD levels DHD in case you don't know it's a more important form of testosterone and yes santin repetitively in my opinion has been shown to reduce this conversion from testosterone to DHT
116:00 - 116:30 the question is is it really bad for you let me tell you my thinking on this so to me looking younger than my real age means that I need to preserve my hair and we know definitely that DHT levels is a major contributor to male pattern baldness so for me even if there are some benefits to having higher levels of DHD the trade-off makes sense and second here as you can see testosterone is being converted so this lack of conversion may actually lead to testosterone preservation because it's not being converted into DHT I've tried
116:30 - 117:00 to double check this in healthy humans not in sick animals and I haven't seen any studies besides one in this study they gave humans a combination of soft Palmetto Berry lipid extract and santin what did they find a decrease in DHD but an increase in testosterone suggesting that indeed this lack of conversion preserves testosterone I'm quoting from them I no RM which is a statistical analysis of data in which the same subjects are measured multiple times under different conditions over time
117:00 - 117:30 this method I'm quoting showed significant within group increases in serum total testosterone and significant decreases in serum DHD from Baseline so it could be that atin actually preserves testosterone by preventing it from becoming DHD which can actually cause you a hair loss if you're a man but as David suggested it's too early to conclude we need more data and I'm going to update you as more data comes okay let's speak about risks with with Brands the first product that popularized a bit santin I think uh it
117:30 - 118:00 has been um cre oil and when you go in shop for cre oil you see different products with different levels of santin one with 0.5 one with one one with 2 milligrams per capsule what's your take on the use of cre oil as a Esten supplement and do you do you see any risks in oxidation in the process of packaging the what do you think well I think KR oil contains asanin but like you said it's typically
118:00 - 118:30 sub milligram amounts microgram amounts of asanin unless they specifically add more asanin to get it up into the milligram amounts so I think first off you're not going to get enough aanin from the krill oil not to say that krill oil is bad but you just it wouldn't be instead of taking an aanin supplement so that's that's the first thing and then in terms of oxidation I would think having the aanin in there would help prevent the oxidation of the cry oil to an extent but at the same time you don't want the aanin being an antioxidant in the krilla you want to be an antioxidant
118:30 - 119:00 in your body and and that's actually why in our formulation we have small amounts not biologically relevant amounts but amounts for shelf life purposes in our formulation along with the starches and things like we talked about to act as sacrificial antioxidants on the Shelf so if if there you know is oxygen um exposed to the product on the Shelf which which it is the vitamin C and vitamin E are there to sacrifice themselves so that the aanin can remain intact to be an antioxidant in your body rather than on the Shelf um so going
119:00 - 119:30 back to the cry oil again you know it depends on what else do you have other antioxidants um that can help to prevent oxidation or also what are the production um methods used uh to extract the and store um uh the cry oil because I know especially with the you know with the fish oils there can be lot of variation in the oxidation and if you look at supplements versus prescription forms um that can lead to a really important difference in terms of whether it's actually good for you or bad for
119:30 - 120:00 you um so so I think the handling the processing has a big thing and then also if there are other antioxidants like aanin in there maybe that prevents the oxidation but then now you're no longer getting that benefit in your body so but I'm not an expert in in that space um but the main thing I would say is you know if you want to take it I would research you know hopefully a good quality um supplement for a Krill or fish oil or omega-3 Source but then certainly take uh you know a good aanin supplement as well also fish oil as well could be oxidized in our bodies once we
120:00 - 120:30 consume it because we do have we do consume high levels of oxygen in my mind I would expect santin to be protective of our fish oil um supplement what do you think especially when it says the DH DHA sits on the membrane do you think the San going to protect it yeah I would think so and and so certainly you think about the Omega-3s helping to replenish the lipids in the membrane and asanin helps to protect those lipids from oxidation stability that's the problem
120:30 - 121:00 that they have yeah they're very good for us but they're also unstable yeah yeah so if you were just trying to deliver the the least oxidized form of fish oil having aanin in that fish oil supplement would presumably help to mitigate the the oxidation proper handling but if you take it separately even if you take your product yeah go ahead yeah yeah so you're talking about shelf life versus what's happening biologically yeah um so I I think there's considerations for both um again not I don't know that there's
121:00 - 121:30 research in those areas but you can hypothesize about that for sure yeah see ifm 65 I have above average oxidative stress I'm taking fish oil it sits on the membrane after two days it's oxid it begins to oxidize I would expect s to come and stabilize the membrane do you think it's a good uh good scenario I think that's reasonable uh yeah yeah yeah because that's really important especially to me the greatest impact of
121:30 - 122:00 santing could be with with the elderly because they lose hearing they lose eyesight it tells me the they lose brain tissue it tells me that they oxidize their fatty tissues this is why the way I and so I think it definitely can help the elderly but then the question is you don't want to necessarily be starting it when you're elderly I I think it has benefit um you know certainly like we looked at geriatric animals and shown benefits there and um and so I don't think it's something where it wouldn't
122:00 - 122:30 work in the elderly but the whole idea is just you know if you can start taking it younger or as a normal age adult and hopefully maintain Better Health then by the time you are elderly you know you're you're in a better state of health versus try you know trying to fix things that that have gone ay um but to your point I mean yeah those are the things that over time the oxid stress inflammation um that that's happening over years and decades takes its toll and so anything you can do along the way to mitigate that is going to be a big help and then once you are at that point anything you can do to help the decline
122:30 - 123:00 or or help to maintain a restore uh you know is going to be beneficial yeah I have a few questions about the products uh from my longevity hackers group they ask what's the risk of consumer buying asset zantin from Brands any risk that you would warn consumers um I think would want to just uh purchase from a reputable brand um that's um you know that is uh known in the space to be credible um and so um
123:00 - 123:30 just to Rattle off a few Brands like for example bio Aon is a form of micro agle asanin grown in Kona in the big island of Hawaii um their company was literally across the street from our company um and so our company and their company were the first two asan and dietary supplements on the market back in 1999 2000 time frame um and um and so they've been around a long time they've done a lot to contribute to the the growth of the asanin market and they they not only
123:30 - 124:00 sell their bio Asin brand but they Supply um their ingredient to a lot of other U manufact or other brands that that sell it um you know in as part of their catalog um so so their product is certainly one that um you know has uh a lot of history behind it it is grown in the open ponds um and and so it is potentially more prone to contamination versus a closed Pond approach um but with that said um I think their product is uh you know of of you know good
124:00 - 124:30 quality and and um um and is reasonable you know to take in terms of if you want a known um trusted source of of microalgal asanin um but there's also other forms of microalgal asanin from companies like asteral or asteral I've heard it pronounced both ways but their um based their us um headquarters uh or production facilities are in Washington State and they have an entirely closed uh tube production um and they use hydroelectric power that's sustainable to power the production and so that's um
124:30 - 125:00 the closed system so potentially less prone to contamination um also in Iceland uh alalif produces microalgal asanin um in the closed tubes and they use geothermal power which is also great and um and so there's would be a a nice clean product that's environmentally sustainable but with all of those sources um again you're still getting the micro alal form of asthm like we talked about that uh would would not be as bioavailable as our form um so so there is that consideration but I think
125:00 - 125:30 if you are looking for the micro Alo form those are all trusted manufacturers um and then um then there's brands that are not manufacturers but they are credible uh brands for supplements and vitamins in general so if you look at Amazon Sports research is a brand that sells asanin in the past they sourced their asanin from asteral and then they um I believe switched over to alalif uh the Icelandic form but basically the same asan closed uh you know tubes um and um so whether you do the open air
125:30 - 126:00 ponds like the farm uh biasin Market it is kind of like farmed asanin Hawaiian farmed asanin or the closed to systems like alalif or asteral I think those manufacturers um and and the brands that they sell to um are are more than reasonable in terms of credible uh and to be of of high quality I know that there was um that study that showed that you know some brands on Amazon had significantly less ACD Anan per capsule than the label claim so that's that's a consideration but I think if you so it
126:00 - 126:30 happen purchasing one of those so there evidence it does happen yeah there is evidence for that that was not us that was some other I forget who the group was but they um they published a report on the top you know number of products on Amazon and then they analyzed the ases anthon content and again as anthon is tricky to analyze and measure and we spent a lot of time and money developing methods properly analyze it so I mean you have to make sure that the analytical methods were robust but so to me the risk here is that the retailer may buy from the manufacturer
126:30 - 127:00 and since he doesn't have the technology to measure properly cannot keep the feet to the fire of the the manufacturer just going to take their Ward because it's so complicated to it's possible yeah I mean there are published methods though for just measuring the the amount of aanin in a product sample it's a little bit more tricky when you get to measuring it bio analytically in the pl tissue that's especially where it gets more tricky um from a from a dosage standpoint um that is a little more straightforward and so I think as long as the manufacturer or
127:00 - 127:30 the brand is a reputable company that is you know U above board and trying to sell the right amount of aanin as as labeled then you could be reasonably assured that it's going to be um the appropriate amount um you know that's certainly one thing that we do is you know are very um rigorous about uh making sure that we have the labeled amount there um but but yeah so I think if you look at the top selling products on Amazon those are probably more than fine but if if it's some upstart brand
127:30 - 128:00 that just is on Amazon and appears to be too good to be true in terms of how cheap it is or something then I would probably more skeptical of that but so if I was doing micro Alo it would probably be either a bio Asin or Asal or alol life sourced asanin whether it's directly from them or from a a reseller like a sports research um you know I think any of those would probably be fine and then in case with ax3 um you know we call it ax3 biopure asisan we call it biopure because it's highly bioavailable pure asanin and by the way
128:00 - 128:30 we call it ax3 because it has three times the absorption um and so that's also why yes yeah yeah yeah yeah and so um but yeah so I think you know this is a Formula they use in thep right this is a Formula they us thep and it includes three three um three types of s three um yeah um isomer or correct so it's it's the same yes the same so it's the synthetic or you know acanth produced by natural product total synthesis so it's synthetic it's non aerified it's the
128:30 - 129:00 mixture of the isomers um and it's the exact same formulation composition with the starches and the glucose syrup and and you know the exact same formulation it's of course not in the capsules um you know but it's it's the the formulation the beadit particles which is the starchy dispersed finally dispersed santhan in the starchy Matrix that formulation was incorporated into the Chow that was fed to the mice in the ITP I I think one of the risks in essence is the variability so the person
129:00 - 129:30 may not know if they buy the the alga produced santin how much uh what's the blood level they're going to get that would be like one of the greatest risks or buying from a very cheap manufacturer that has less s than they claim so that will be like the main risks I would I would say that fine to say that yeah I agree and then the one other consideration is just uh not a risk but a consideration from a
129:30 - 130:00 price point if you look on Amazon at say those top selling microalgal ases anthon brands you'll typically see uh 60 capsules sold for around $25 to $30 um and then if you were to look say at our product you'll see that it's 60 capsules of the 12 milligram capsules for $50 um and you'll think you know to the untrained uh you know consumer it'll be like uh thinking wow we're we're double the price um but if you think
130:00 - 130:30 about needing uh three times as many capsules to absorb the same amount given our head-to-head human study then presumably you would need to take you know three bottles to equal one of of ours and so that would be something where you'd be looking at spending $75 for three $25 bottles to equate to one of ours if you extrapolate the results of that head-to-head PK study where from the same dosage of 12 milligram capsules in the microalgal versus our form you
130:30 - 131:00 had a three times you know difference in bioavailability so that's one thing that when shopping around I think people should also consider um but just to reiterate what I said before I think at the end of the day if people at least just supplement you know their diet with with aanin that is a win that is a good thing and in addition to all the other lifestyle um you know diet exercise sleep stress all these things that you would do um for a holistic approach to you know improving your health longevity so this is not to replace any of those
131:00 - 131:30 but I think in addition to that and then I think just taking ases anthon is already a great thing and then and then we have our reasons why we think our form is optimal um but we certainly have experience working with the micro agle and potentially will offer micro augle as part of our product line in the future as well just to uh to give those options uh to the consumers um but um but that's those are the considerations that I think U you know a healthc conscious or sophisticated consumer should think about let me just share my enthusiasm about
131:30 - 132:00 santin my enthusiasm about the the supplement uh really grew when I've in in June 2024 a y's aging test was uh published and I've done the Aging test and I noticed my my brain wasn't uh on the same Rejuvenation protocol like the rest of my body so I realized I need to Target the brain specifically and asan is one one of the only supplements that can do that the other option is hyperic oxygen in addition I experiened a lot of chronic psychological stress uh because
132:00 - 132:30 of my wife situation and I also suspect is going to contribute to brain aging um and I knew also because because of my wife research I had to do that very difficult to get into the brain and nentin is one of the only supplements that actually can Target the brain and if my understanding is correct and it actually activates uh longevity genes in the brain Maybe would fit into my overall strategy but I want I want to test that with uh I'm going to keep the audience updated but I want to test that because I have seen with the hyperic
132:30 - 133:00 oxygen it revers a few years back in my brain and We Know It targets the brain so I would be very curious to see how it's going to affect my brain as well and also I'm curious to see maybe it could help my wife with her stroke as well um that would be a good experiment as well I wanted to tell the audience about your website and maybe if you if you have different versions of the products if you have a a variety of products maybe forms um maybe different bottles but please feel free to share anything that you want about your product and also the website of course
133:00 - 133:30 I'm going to put also in the description the the links to to his products as well yeah so well first off I think the study that you're doing sounds really interesting and uh and it would be cool to see what happens uh with the brain aging um and uh of course I I think that you know there are different biomarkers for for biological aging and and organ aging and and so I think there are various considerations on how that maps to the reality of of the Aging in you know lifespan over time um but I think
133:30 - 134:00 that you know those that's the best tools we have at this point right in in humans and it's really cool to to see especially on you know on yourself uh what results you're getting and then and then with your wife um again so sorry to hear about that and and I do hope that you know as anthon uh could help her uh you know with with her health going forward um and um yeah so with our website it's ax3 dolie so not. butlife and um you know hopefully for increasing your lifespan um and and your health
134:00 - 134:30 span um and so um on Instagram it's also ax3 doli and um right now we just have our single form of the product which is the 12 milligram capsules and this is with the um biopure you know the synthetic highly bioavailable formulated version of asanin um and we sell it in um environmentally sustainable pouches uh that use less material than a plastic bottle and are much lighter than say like a glass jar or bottle that would
134:30 - 135:00 take more fuel to transport so so we're trying to be sustainable in terms of the packaging um and so that's what we currently offer in the future um there are plans uh to release a powder form that you could disperse into water like I said earlier you can already take the capsule and open it up and put the powder into water or a drink like a shake and and consume it that way but we're as long it's with a meal yeah with a meal yeah so not instead of a meal but but along with a meal or after a meal
135:00 - 135:30 exactly and so um it will turn the water bright red which is strange um and um but it won't taste or smell differently so it's it's an interesting experience um but that's an option um but we are looking at a powder form where you could just dispense the powder um you know directly in without need to open up a capsule potentially rce the cost would it reduce the cost you're going to save the capsule would it reduce the the price if somebody because somebody out there it doesn't want to just take 12 milligrams I said I'm going to take 24 36 you're already taking 48 a person may
135:30 - 136:00 decide based on their individual choice will try to try to find a way to save money maybe to buy in bulk what would be so so that's like that would going to save money if they're going to buy the powder in bulk in a more bulky way yeah potentially and so we have to still figure out the the best packaging so because it's so it's a pigment you know so it's it's something where if you are scooping it and it gets onto the counter onto your clothes it's going to it potentially can stain um and so we have to have considerations about you know whether it's a bulk amount of
136:00 - 136:30 powder that you're scooping and again the amount that you're scooping is going to be very small it's not like you're scooping like a protein powder or nutritional Shake powder where you're having big Scoops this would be very small Scoops even if you're doing the equivalent of multiple capsules so that we'd have to figure out if you're scooping U powder or if it's in individually packed uh amounts that are in like environmentally sustainable little packs um that you can tear open and and put into a drink kind of like you might with an electrolyte type of mix for example um so those are the considerations but to your point it's
136:30 - 137:00 not mean to be encapsulated but just packaged and so uh the cost of goods could be less and therefore we could pass on some savings to the consumer at and potentially offer a better price point especially for that power user that wants to purchase in bulk so so that's a future plan but for now you can get the capsule and dispense that into a drink or just obviously swallow the capsule we are looking at forms for the future um which from a health standpoint to make a gummy you're incorporating other ingredients and that is typically not optimal especially if you want the gummy to taste good and have shelf life
137:00 - 137:30 but again it's probably better to take aanan even gummy form than not at all and so if the gummy form makes it fun and good to take and you enjoy because you have a nice taste I think that's still um a good benefit and and so that is a future plan potentially as well um and uh we may look at a pet formulation because again right you can take your capsule and you know put it in peanut butter or cheese or soft food and give it to uh your dog for example or people you know sprinkled into cat food uh
137:30 - 138:00 other pets um I you know seen uh that people have given asanin or eg3 to them as well but having an actual little pet treat or chew could be a nice way to make it convenient to give to your pet because obviously we'd all love our pets to live longer healthier lives so those are all plans in addition um we are looking at um even though we have scientific advantages and Manufacturing advantages over the micro Alo form uh we are looking at adding a microalgal form as well just so that people have the
138:00 - 138:30 option if if they um uh would prefer that even if it's not as well absorbed um so those are all future plans at this point we just have the encapsulated form of the biopure synthetic highly bioavailable formulation of asisan so that's A3 can somebody subscribe and get some discount if they subscribe to a monthly do you have offer some subscription at the moment we do right now we just have it actually as subscription only because this is not something you just take once and then you know you're cured you know and so it's just offered as a subscription only
138:30 - 139:00 um and so you know if people don't want to subscribe they can always you ship worldwide or you ship only America to America we ship to um we ship to um Canada well United States Canada Australia New Zealand uh the UK um and and a few other areas uh not currently to the EU um but we are um looking to expand in in the future there as well so not not completely worldwide but certainly more than just the United
139:00 - 139:30 States I'm curious like if I take like three capsules of your formulation how how many grams of corbs would I get like half a gram of Corb or something like that yeah so the modified food starch that is the the main substrate of the formulation is um about 180 Mig per capsule so less than2 gr and so if you had three of those then you know a little over half a gram um of of that
139:30 - 140:00 and then the corn starch is yeah not significant the corn starch is is about uh uh 50 milligrams you know so 05 grams um and so yeah alog together if you add that together with the modified food starch and and by the way the modified food starch is not genetically modified some people think that means genetically modified uh it's modified where it's processed in a way to make it where it's um has better water dispersibility characteristics compared to the normal starch and so um that is what actually allows it to be so well dispersed in the
140:00 - 140:30 water and therefore in the GI fluid and then nicely absorbed um so so that's what the modified um starch uh is and then but if you take that uh plus the very small amount of glucose syrup uh less than tenth of half a gram per capsule uh it's a very small amount of uh the the starch or carbon and sugar you know content in there so it's it's I would say negligible from a dietary you know standpoint um but have grammar more just to get a number I I like to know a number like approximately half a gram um
140:30 - 141:00 yeah yeah if you take three it'll be a little more than half a gram but it'll be well less than than one gr okay anything else you want to share maybe new studies that you're working on uh maybe pre-clinical data that um hasn't been published yet uh that you want to share well the ITP is based on the results of our published study are really excited and they're testing it again but now they want to see well what if we do a
141:00 - 141:30 significantly lower dose can we still have a lifespan benefit um oh really and so that'll be interesting to see yeah so they've already started that we've supplied them with more material and so yeah let let's tune back in in three or four years right and see the results but um but yeah so we'll see uh if anything we were also wanting to maybe see what if we did a higher dose you know could we have I'm interested because my understanding of what you said that is what they did equivalent to 12 to 24 milligrams in humans so so I would actually so
141:30 - 142:00 practical perspective I mean people can take more than 12 milligrams I would care I would want say double the dose that that would be down to I agree yeah so we we pushed to do that they want to test the lower dose just to see you know kind of to get that scientific answer um but the from practical standpoint the reason why the higher dose wasn't feasible is you can only incorporate so much of another ingredient into the chow and still have the Chow be intact and so
142:00 - 142:30 the percentage uh you know that you're the concentration of the um of the active ingredient in the Chow is something that is limited and so we're bumping up against that when we start to have the higher dosing so that's problem it's just hard it in they already already exactly variability there so that's the thing you probably need to serve them with some drink next to the meal for force them to drink it with the meal and then take the glass yeah there you go yeah so I me
142:30 - 143:00 bar and then they also May in the future look at they have their primary study is the lifespan study where they just start the the mice with dosing at some point in this case they were 12 months of age which is the human equivalent of being in your 40s uh based on on these mice and so this they started middle age um you know other interesting answers would be starting late age to see if how much of a lifespan you can um or younger either way yeah it' be it would be great to have those questions uh answered but also they have another variation of the
143:00 - 143:30 study where they don't just look at the lifespan they actually look at Health span like tissue uh you know uh effects organ effects and so they'll um you take animals at different time points and all those things yeah and so um that would be another follow-on study that would be interesting to see but at this point what they're currently doing is just the follow on lifespan study study at the lower dose so I'm not sure how that's going to turn out because the dose is significantly less um but um it'll still be you know interesting contribution to to the science I think last question are
143:30 - 144:00 you aware aware of females dying from different cause of death compared to the 80% mortality rate by the the male mice do do do you know any differences in the cause of death between these two groups the ITP users no um and I don't know that that they have um the cause of death specifically um characterized in in those I think that's where you look more at the health span studies that's where they really get into uh what's happening
144:00 - 144:30 um and you know both in the progression of of issues at the organ level and then ultimately cause of death um and so all they're looking at in the main ITP study is just how long they live um and so we don't have the exact answer so um yeah so again wouldn't know exactly if there was a difference for cause of death um I would presume not I I presume it's probably similar causes of death um but um that again would be interesting to know with further research okay I think we can go speak asan another hour hour and a half or so
144:30 - 145:00 but I mean it's quite amazing how how much you can speak about about it um oh yeah okay let's let's repeat again about your website sure yeah so it's it's yeah it's ax3 dolie uh um that's the website that's it and we just have the single product um there for a subscription and people can do one to four pouches per
145:00 - 145:30 either 30 60 90 or 120 days whatever is uh the most convenient and um you know the subscription can be adjusted at any time you know there's an account that you can log into you can skip reschedule cancel anything change the quantity uh however so there's complete flexibility um and if someone really wants to just try it once uh which I wouldn't recommend because I think you want to take it consistently um but you know you could always purchase and cancel or you could purchase and extend the frequency of of orders to 12 months and then manually trigger in order whenever you
145:30 - 146:00 want it so I mean there there's workarounds but essentially we think we encourage a subscription with with regular dosing for for optimal benefit perfect I'm going to put a link as well in the description so I think this is it thank you so much and thank you for listening as well uh I don't think I've ever heard such a long conversation about the stin I think it deserved the attention we gave it and I think we could go I mean it's so it's so such an interesting molecule we can when we could go and and
146:00 - 146:30 speak even one two hours hopefully more longevity stud is going to come out and we can maybe going to give more specific directions about Do's cycling not cycling Etc so um uh subscribe to the channel so thank you so much Dave um thank you yeah we're just getting started thanks for having me