Tackling the Anglophone Crisis in Cameroon

Capo Daniel on panel in Afrique Media TV

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

The panel discussion on Afrique Media TV, featuring Capo Daniel and other stakeholders, delves into the persisting Anglophone crisis in Cameroon. The crisis, central to Cameroon's socio-political struggles, has led to thousands of deaths and massive displacement. Panelists debate on solutions and the role of foreign influence, notably France, in the conflict. While the government sees the conflict as internal, some panelists argue for international intervention, citing self-defense needs. The conversation highlights differing views on language, colonial legacies, and political aspirations, revealing a complex crisis with no simple resolution in sight.

Highlights

Panelists express frustration over lack of progress in resolving the crisis 😠.
Discussions emphasize the need for Cameroon to address internal and external political dynamics 📈.
Capo Daniel suggests the crisis is far from over, calling for continued struggle and self-defense 🔥.
The role of colonial history and influence from France is heavily debated as a factor in the conflict 👔.
A call for ceasefire and negotiations persists, but agreement on how to achieve this is lacking 🤷‍♂️.

Key Takeaways

The Anglophone crisis in Cameroon remains unresolved, with ongoing debates about self-determination versus unity 🇨🇲.
Foreign influences, particularly from France, are perceived as exacerbating the crisis 🇫🇷.
Various panelists call for negotiation and dialogue, though opinions differ on the terms and conditions 🤝.
The humanitarian impact is severe, with over 3000 deaths and a million displaced, emphasizing the need for urgent solutions 🆘.
There is a cultural clash between English-speaking and French-speaking regions, complicating the crisis further 🇬🇧🇫🇷.

Overview

The ongoing Anglophone crisis in Cameroon was the subject of a vibrant panel discussion on Afrique Media TV, with Capo Daniel and other panelists sharing their perspectives. For years, this crisis has destabilized Cameroon, leading to severe humanitarian consequences, including thousands of deaths and massive displacements. The discussion reflected the complexity of the crisis, involving historical grievances, political disputes, and international influences.

Panelists shared diverse opinions, often clashing over the roots of the conflict and potential solutions. While some argued for the need of self-determination and greater autonomy for the Anglophone regions, others posited the importance of unity within Cameroon. The debate also addressed the role of international entities, particularly highlighting France's historical and ongoing influence in the region.

The humanitarian toll of the crisis was underscored, with calls for immediate action to alleviate suffering. Despite the urgency, consensus on the path forward remains elusive, as opinions diverge between maintaining the status quo and pursuing independence or greater autonomy for the Anglophone regions. The dialogue concluded without a clear resolution but emphasized the need for continued discussion and negotiation.

Chapters

00:00 - 01:00: Introduction to Panel Discussion The chapter 'Introduction to Panel Discussion' begins with a participant expressing their commitment to contributing solutions to the anglophone crisis in Cameroon. This has been a focus of their efforts for four years as part of a stakeholder group. They emphasize their dedication to resolving the crisis, which is a significant issue for political stakeholders and the youth in Cameroon. The participant acknowledges the urgency of finding a solution and appreciates the opportunity to be part of this solution-seeking program.
01:00 - 03:00: Professor Mark Antony's Remarks The chapter titled 'Professor Mark Antony's Remarks' features a transcript of a session with Professor Mark Antony. He expresses gratitude for the invitation and acknowledges it's his first time on the platform. He hopes that the discussion will be impactful and educational for the listeners. The session will address issues concerning the state of Cameroon and Africa.
03:00 - 50:00: Panel Discussion on Cameroon Crisis The chapter covers a panel discussion focusing on the crisis in Cameroon. The discussion includes remote participation through Zoom from Mr. John Barcaro and Professor Carlson Young. The moderator welcomes Mr. Barcaro, thanking him for his participation in the open African forum for building African media.
50:00 - 70:00: Callers and Audience Interaction The guest on the program expresses gratitude for the opportunity to speak to the audience, aiming to educate them on the current situation in the former independent state of Southern Cameroons. The guest also intends to clarify misinformation propagated by those seeking to mislead others.
70:00 - 75:00: Conclusion and Closing Remarks This chapter serves as the conclusion and contains closing remarks from participants involved in a program. It includes expressions of gratitude directed towards contributors and participants, highlighting the involvement of Dr. Carlson Ayan and others. Dr. Carlson is recognized as the Foreign Affairs Secretary for the interim government, and his acceptance of the invitation to participate is acknowledged. Overall, the chapter wraps up the proceedings with appreciative notes for the collaborative efforts and the important discussions held during the program.

Capo Daniel on panel in Afrique Media TV Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 to be a participant of this solution seeking program to the anglophone crisis that had been our free operation as a stakeholder in the population party and stand up for camera movement for the past four years now so um i'm going to give my best of contribution and solution that will enable us to come to the end of the crisis because that is the main problem that we are having as political stakeholders as youth in cameroon today exactly when is a crisis ending thanks for coming and equally we have uh
00:30 - 01:00 professor mark and tony thanks for honoring the invitation thank you sorry for the name yeah it's my pleasure being on this platform i think for the first time yeah and by the grace of god i believe that whatsoever i'll be discussing here today will have the effects and in one way or the other is going to be educative to those who are listening to us and yeah as you will be handling issues that concern the state of cameroon and africa as a
01:00 - 01:30 whole okay just exactly and you who is out there as well we shall be talking with those on uh joining us on zoom we have uh mr john barcaro hopefully we shall be talking with him and equally professor carlson young we will hopefully be having them on uh zoom this day to join us on the program uh but just before then we okay let's welcome let's begin with you uh mr john barco thanks for honoring the invitation and being a part of the open african building african media thank you very much uh it's uh my
01:30 - 02:00 pleasure being on this program uh once more and uh i hope this will be an opportunity for us to educate your audience on the exact situation unfolding in this island the ones independent state of southern cameroons and there will also be an opportunity to you know clarify some of the fallacies that have been stilled out there by uh people who simply want to you know throw
02:00 - 02:30 the clouds on the core issues that are thick thank you very much once more it's my pleasure being part of the program thank you very much and we equally have dr carlson ayan guy he's equally part of the program you are the foreign affairs secretary of the interim government dr carlson thanks for honoring an invitation
02:30 - 03:00 well dr carlson maybe you have to turn on your microphone check maybe the icon on your your laptop or your phone okay dr carlson i angry thanks for being there you are the foreign affairs secretary of the interim government thanks for being live on pan africans wait thank you very much it's my pleasure being here all right we also have a couple danielle equally johnny noses there on zoom welcome to
03:00 - 03:30 the program thank you very much uh mr lewis and uh uh it's an opportunity and an honor for me to be able to address your audience and participate in this year program today all right we very much welcome all of you who are part of the program they say our interest and our focus is when is the crisis in common swingly speaking regions coming to an end when is the crisis and let me begin with you um professor mark and tony now you'll be pulling up the
03:30 - 04:00 situation on the ground you're cameronian and you speak english meaning you're coming from one of the swingly speaking regions the crisis aren't going on now for three years since it degenerated into an armed conflict what do you think when is this crisis coming to an end yes i am of the english-speaking section of cameroon and as an individual i have been on the ground should i use the word ground zero that is popularly caught yes i've actually experienced the fire
04:00 - 04:30 and i believe that there are some individuals behind who actually are making gains from the continuous propagation of the conflict the crisis even though the lives of many have been affected like some of us we are actually in dual are not because we actually want to be in dual at the moment and because a corner was actually uh invaded and it was
04:30 - 05:00 practically difficult for us to leave in the corner so we had to leave asking me the question when i think this issue is going to end i think that until france loses its interest in africa we will always have issues like this in africa you see it is an unending series of crisis that keeps on for example you
05:00 - 05:30 enter presently in libya libya is in crisis because of france you go presently to mali mali is in crisis because of france and when you come to cameroon cameroon is in crisis simply because of france and so that's why i said until france loses its interest in africa see africans can actually break loose from the yoke of the french people it will be difficult for us to actually
05:30 - 06:00 say we are free yeah at the end of the day seems as if we are claiming political independence but when we are actually imprisoned whatever is called political independence today in cameroon is a trap that was given to the french cameroon in 20 in 1960 and when they brought the the english-speaking section into it in 1961 and that becomes
06:00 - 06:30 a serious issue because if it was an issue of culture and this particular group of persons who call them anglophones and francophones we forget to know that they are all africans and sharing the same blood having the same not just the same skin color but having africa in them and because of the foreign culture we have gotten to separate ourselves and we are fighting among ourselves
06:30 - 07:00 that's that to me is one of the greatest errors that we ever made fighting amongst ourselves and asking the question when is it going to end as i said earlier unless the caucasians leave africa will still keep on fighting one another and until we break loose from that yoke it will be a difficult thing to come out and to to to land here i want to look at the issue presently for example when uh ayook's tabe actually came out the other
07:00 - 07:30 day and declared that they were on the pre-talks with the the the regime in place and uh later on the minister of communication came out to actually present a contrary position what i discuss i saw a need i discovered that some of uh the our fellow anglophone brothers were out of cameroon actually were jubilating that the minister of communication actually
07:30 - 08:00 debunked the whole thing that to me seems as if uh there are individuals who don't actually want that this uh crisis should end when i talk of these individuals there's individuals in the government the regime that don't want it to end there are individuals in the the the the ig that doesn't want you to end or say let's say the ambassador leadership out there and in cameroon that don't want this issue to end and as a result of that you discovered that because they are gaining from behind it
08:00 - 08:30 will keep on propagating so i'm asking the question to most of them listening to us at this particular hour when do they think that it will be necessary for the lives of those our children our grandparents who have actually uh been put to jupiter when do they think that they are going to liberate them from it so that they can go back to their normal life is it when they finally say okay we have gotten independence and when would that independence be given
08:30 - 09:00 if we are refusing to go sit on the table and dock okay thank you that's our question for the day when is the crisis in cameron's english speaking region is coming to an end let me first of all talk with you uh dr carlson ayanguya the foreign affairs secretary of the interim government and our big question for the day in our debate topic is when is a crisis in the english-speaking regions coming to an end what's your opinion yes sir let me make two caveats first of all i want to inform you
09:00 - 09:30 professor anyangue is not here mandated by the ig or even the department of foreign affairs so it's rather very very clear i'm here in my personal capacity because somebody requested me to do that and that's how i'm appearing here second thing i want just to say is the report which at the very beginning um comes from one of the reporters to me lacks a lot of credibility and are not in very respect at least not for me that said you asked a question i answered it directly
09:30 - 10:00 when is this work coming to an end my straightforward answer is it is not coming to an end anytime soon this world is just about to begin elaborate on that as we get along thank you and uh all right let me get you mr john ba akuro when is the crisis in this english-speaking region's coming to an end that's our question for today
10:00 - 10:30 i don't know if you can hear me mr john barcaro please you have to turn on your microphone please check your microphone icon and put it on so that yeah thank you i yes i actually didn't uh you know unmute myself um can you get me
10:30 - 11:00 now get you now can you hear me right now yeah mr john barcaro please go ahead we can hear you okay thank you very much um i just said let me begin by loving uh because that is a very interesting question interesting because uh the answer that you just received or some anya way may seem terrorist but
11:00 - 11:30 to be very honest that is exactly what the situation is you will notice that uh a lot of too big your cameroon is not ready for peace though not anytime soon but i predict you cameron understands that things will
11:30 - 12:00 never be like they were before until it becomes very clear to them that we will never never ever be part of that fabric called the republic of cameroon anymore if they are down deep in their heads we will begin to you know talk about a solution but as long as they continue to think that they can't thoughts on our people and force themselves on our territory and that they can improve colonial rule
12:00 - 12:30 on us it's not good so like forecast we said right now our people are still trying to prepare themselves for the real battle ahead from the side of the civil society you see that the people have refused tired the government has used all sorts of stupid tactics tried to infiltrate the ranks of the people who are friends gendarmes soldiers you know
12:30 - 13:00 these guys as if they were uh self-defense volunteers or southern cameroons and go out there to kidnap systematically to give the impression to the world that are that our people are kidnappers and also to turn the population against their own aspirations of freedom all of those things have not worked and they are not going to work not anytime soon because our people are terribly sensitized our people are very informed about the
13:00 - 13:30 tactics of like you cameroon which are you know inherited from france we have seen france do these things in other spheres we have seen france do it everywhere else in africa it didn't work in one day in southern cameroons so what i would like to say simply is called with the reference that you received in a very first manner from professor carlson anyaway that this whole thing this whole resistance is just about to
13:30 - 14:00 begin with you cannot thought that they are getting anywhere closer to annihilating our people they should know that we are that we are still just a genesis thank you now before i get back to the panelists on zoom mr fabrics and i just hear him this is four years now since the crisis broke out three years since it generated into an armed conflict now what the others are saying is that
14:00 - 14:30 the crisis is too to begin what's your opinion when do you think is crisis shooting the center focus of the population party is the people human life humanity in front the blood of those that are existing and we think that the violence had already taken a lot of lives
14:30 - 15:00 for the past four years and it is time for us to think about our personal ambitions ego and the desire to hang on our own argument to be supreme it is futile for a people an individual a group of people to think that they can resolve a crisis that has
15:00 - 15:30 passed the stage of peace nonviolent action to a violent one without understanding the dynamics the intensity the historicity and the complexity of the crisis in question especially the anglophone crisis with its own particularity on this note we are trying to tell
15:30 - 16:00 our brothers in the bush and the diaspora that it is necessary to open ourselves pragmatically practically strategically to the international community to persons willing to mediate for ceasefire for peace so that as a people we can face the common enemy which is the republic of cameroon under
16:00 - 16:30 the poor leadership the poor role of the defunct regime of yaounde that has dropped the country from prosperity to primitivity to under development to misery to bondage to slavery and to all whatnot that were experiencing today we think that violence begets violence and saying that
16:30 - 17:00 the crisis had just begun it means we are still willing and ready to spill more blood we are still willing and ready to sacrifice more lives my question is how many of the lives of these politicians in the diaspora in the yarn the government or some of us in this tv platform and so on
17:00 - 17:30 how many of us have lose the lives of our relatives we are alive today because we have the special grace of god we are not directly involved in the gun battle or missing the bullet on daily basis in the ground like those that are experiencing the war i think that war always ends in a round table discussion war has always ended with someone
17:30 - 18:00 having the temperament humane enough human enough to accept that the other party had not defeated us but we need to reason be more rational to accept that we need to discuss and use the force of argument which is the best tool to solve crisis diplomatically locally
18:00 - 18:30 domestically to arrive at conclusions that will better emancipate us the human loss is enormous the material loss is enormous the future of our children is in japanese the infrastructural development of southern cameroons is at a waterloo they don't care these politicians don't care in yaounde they don't care because they are living in comfort
18:30 - 19:00 in absolute comfort those in the diaspora are fine they don't have any problem they are in a modern society regulated with liberty with peace some of us who are here in the country in yamuna we are in psychological war on daily basis on how to deal with the immediate situations that are reaching our table how to solve the problem of someone that his or her leg has been unprotected
19:00 - 19:30 because of a bullet who is stray bullet some of the people that has been under chaos internally displaced persons in yaouno in dwala or those in the cross river state of nigeria tara busted albania state because they are unable to find peace in their homes all those that are in the various cities that could not run left or right and how to surrender all these are the situations on the ground and i think the
19:30 - 20:00 politicians the leaders have to think of all these be humane enough to let our conscience judge us to let us rewrite history to let us think that the concept of us being africans and fighting ourselves had been primordially instigated by the europeans propagated by france and today we found ourselves we call it
20:00 - 20:30 cultural heritage that one is poor and another one is good and therefore some people will not want to use the good one because they are benefiting from the bad one and it's our duty as a people as africans all together to forge ahead with the good ones and select ourselves to be among the selected seats that will sit down to solve this crisis
20:30 - 21:00 we are saying that let us accept and open to ceasefire revisit elements historical elements of the southern cameroon problem for how long we have gone now with the frustrations we are having with the polemics and the difficulties we are having go back and revisit the historical moments
21:00 - 21:30 from the privacy to the 1961 performance conference constitution right up to all the instances of marginalization of subjugation to bondage subjugation to colonial rule and so on and so forth sit down all together and take the elements acceptable for us to leave as a people and the elements that beyond which we cannot live as a people if we agree based on the things that we
21:30 - 22:00 discuss on this dialogue table on the negotiation table if we agree on the elements that permit us as a people with a given autonomy with a third power with a mediator to live together we live together but at least in a different form of state but at least with different aspects and rules if we don't agree if it is impossible if we see that it will cause us more
22:00 - 22:30 pain we go our separate ways the world is emancipating and has emancipated enough for people to determine themselves and live as a people collaboration between two brothers must not necessarily be that they live in the same house collaboration between states must not be that they live in the same country the mindset of our brothers
22:30 - 23:00 the francophones with the culture of french in africa in cameroon in particular has proven that it is so politically passive so politically immature so politically unconscious and so politically tolerant to injustice so tolerant to aspects of political empires that we don't condone to such
23:00 - 23:30 aspects of of of politics in the anglo-saxon management in the anglo-saxon justice system or culture which becomes incompatible for us to live in the same society however as humans we must draw elements of our societies that are positive from the both sides for us to live together
23:30 - 24:00 humanity in front we don't tolerate or accept violence that is why in our methodology we condemn violence from all sources we condemn violence and killings of human beings we condemn mutilation because if i'm not alive i will not be able to talk so we should understand that the life of everybody here matters okay the voice of everyone here matters and let the leaders in the diaspora understand that it is not insistence on
24:00 - 24:30 your point of view that will make you to win it is insistence on survival of our people that would make us to have a story to tell to the southern cameroonian people and let us be open to negotiations and put more pressure on this decadent government in yarundi to accept negotiations all right thank you very much uh we should come back to now let me get you mr couple danielle
24:30 - 25:00 you've heard from your oracle panelists and uh our biggest opinion this day the question we're asking is when is the crisis coming to an end this is three years already since the crisis in this two regions degenerated into an armed conflict three thousand persons and more have died more than one million have been displaced from their homes where do you think this crisis should come to an end mr lewis as a command officer of the ambassador and defense forces of the savannah states i can tell you that we are in for the
25:00 - 25:30 long haul mr porbia is bringing in new armored vehicles i don't know where maybe from china from the look of things the europeans are not we are buying new weapons and we in the days we have now developed means to neutralize those armored vehicles that were provided by the french government and we are now ready for the new ones
25:30 - 26:00 that are there our forces on the ground are mobilizing themselves our recruitments are growing by the day and we are developing our own homemade weapons to fight for our life i've been listening with this dismay the other speaker talking about what is happening with on the ground i don't know if they're in touch with reality or they are living in another world this is war a war that was declared by mr phobia
26:00 - 26:30 this is not something that was brought by the leadership of the people in the diaspora you could remember very well that the government of la republique camaron was negotiating with above allah they banned the consortium they chased our leaders out of that land into nigeria the people who are in the diaspora are only speaking for the people who are on the ground the resilient on the population of the southern cameroon can be clearly seen in their ghost town
26:30 - 27:00 these five million people by their will through the ghost town are demonstrating to the entire people of that land including the people of the republic that the union is dead this experiment that function have led us into is finished the people do not want to be with you people anymore it is clear it is now a war a war that we do not want we have tried for the past 56 years to
27:00 - 27:30 engage in diplomacy in english to engage in dialogue it did not work when your house is on fire you don't care about who set that fire you try to to to turn off the fire you try to to quench the fire with whatever you have in your hands we do not really care at the moment about the the the colonial hands in this war like the french government because the person who is killing us there are the bees the zhandam
27:30 - 28:00 they are talented for the general car was in in pining the other day and who left to battle with our boys in in battle we are we care about mr phobia we sending these troops to kill our children to rape our women and burn our villages this is our immediate danger we are faced with a humanitarian crisis that is being generated by the camera military that is destroying our crops that is making sure we don't have a way
28:00 - 28:30 to live their governors and their sdo are giving notice to our civilians to leave the land into nigeria we are in an existential war that is why some people are in yaounde we have more than close to a million people now who are refugees in nigeria less than half of that number have been registered our house is on fire and we are fighting for our life we are fighting to defend ourselves the ambassadors who are in the diaspora are not different from the ambassadors
28:30 - 29:00 while on ground zero i sitting here in hong kong i'm a command officer on the ground i give orders on the ground we have taken control of our destiny we have taken control of our land it is legitimately hours this is not about francophones and anglophones like i hear my other brother there from the pap is trying to to articulate this is a problem between two states that was supposed to come together a union that never happened when we went
29:00 - 29:30 to fumban conference led by the head of our state pancha no agreement was reached the 11th point that was presented by our delegation was never adopted it was never made into law the constitution and the union we have today was imposed upon us but we are not here today because of that history we are here today because mr pobia decides to ban us from speaking to ban the
29:30 - 30:00 consortium from articulating things which were within the constitution that was imposed upon us and our people in the face of a genocidal machine decided to pick up weapons to defend themselves and the leadership of the consortium they which represent the civil society said that enough is enough it is time for them to join the brothers who have been crying for our right as a
30:00 - 30:30 state a category b territory equal in statues like republic to cameroon that it is now time for us to come out of this experiment and assert our sovereignty as an independent people as guaranteed by international law and the numerous resolution of the united nations thank you very much mr couple daniel we should come back to you now let me get back to you prof now we just listened there to their different opinions
30:30 - 31:00 we have three years going crisis is not yet coming to an end don't you think the life of those who have died matter those who are suffering the ground matter how do we deal with this situation every life matters i say every life matters and what actually treats me is the boldness of couple daniel in presenting himself as a leader of the ambassador
31:00 - 31:30 fighters when he is in hong kong and some people's children are in bushes here dying being haunted by the military on daily basis and he's calling himself a leader leave us lit from the front they don't live from afar if you want to be a leader kapoor daniel i call you to come to ground zero and fight from the ground you don't lead people's children from afar that to me what you are doing is misleading
31:30 - 32:00 if you want to talk of leadership leadership is from in front you don't lead from afar anybody who wants to actually claim leadership should be on the ground you shouldn't be abroad and you claim that you're a leader of a movement where you don't lead through the social media you don't need true phones it's likely said that most of those on the ground are defending themselves to defend yourself is okay when you are under fire but to tell me that
32:00 - 32:30 you are the commander commanding from hong kong i don't see where true leadership acts like that a true leader should be on the ground to lead that not being my issue i am talking from this platform as a pan-african is because you see i am having a problem with the fact that africans fail to understand the manipulation that is actually on ground we have been manipulated to fight against ourselves and i can't imagine that in a
32:30 - 33:00 single house for yes it is true that we claim the colonial culture to become our culture we are africans we are not europeans i am not an englishman i am from babangi let me be precise and meaning that i am a bantu man and as a band to have my way of living when i see people claiming clicking onto a colonial leadership it makes me feel actually sick from wooden it has been my
33:00 - 33:30 cry for a very long period of time to talk africans who come together we can unite the entire africa to become a single nation that becomes that's my greatest crime that the whole of africa can become a single nation to face the world to face the europeans so face the americans so face the chinese and that is what i think we should be thinking about we should stop thinking about creating little little nations you see when i talk like this some people will say
33:30 - 34:00 uh might be you are a unionist no i'm not a unionist i have been standing for federation in cameroon for a very long period of time and i will still keep standing and that to me is just a means to say we need to come together to be able to stand and face the great enemies the real enemies are not your brothers and sisters it is true daniel you just said something that mr bia november 2000 i think 2017 actually
34:00 - 34:30 declared war yes we accept that we he declared war and who are those losing most it is us we are losing we are actually our children have not been going to school for close to four years today some of them i'm bushes some of our parents are in nigeria and children are in nigeria we are literally suffering some of them have come to
34:30 - 35:00 the francophone section of uh of the country and you know what they are enriching it why our own land is under complete terror so you what do you want to tell me are you trying to tell me that we'll keep on like this because i heard back saying that we are just beginning ah when you see such a thing we are just beginning me the war has not yet started we are just about to start that makes me feel like people don't have
35:00 - 35:30 people you guys are not taking into account the lives of our brothers that are being lost and our parents that are dying are you people thinking of that have been ruling that country from the switzerland for a very long time it is not unusual for people to rule from abroad the south africans fought their appetite from from neighboring countries no they are not doing anything new their leadership was chased
35:30 - 36:00 to execute our liberation movement this is not an abstract theory this is the reality of life we are living in the modern days mr poibia is not on the ground fighting with boots and guns so do mr ayaba from from norway giving instruction to his soldiers we have a leadership on the ground general evan he is there with the boots
36:00 - 36:30 and the guns to defend the people this is as you have rightly said this war was declared by mr phobia and our people are exercising their rights to defend themselves okay and you are talking about pan-africanism for us to unite as africans we must first of all appropriately identify the various units the saudi camaron is one of those units you cannot disappear instead southern cameroon was category b territory equal to the republic you came around before we came into this
36:30 - 37:00 experiment okay i love the european union yeah let me continue with let me give the floor back to professor to wrap up his opinion i've heard your opinion let me give the floor back now to to prof now just round up before we we take to the leg next uh you see you see when when i listen to daniel presents himself i feel like uh he's we are not here for games it's not a
37:00 - 37:30 game maybe you sit over there you think it's a game i i talk like somebody who has faced it and the day my wife was shot on the stomach you were not there you were sitting in hong kong the day bullets entered my house i you were not there you don't know the fear you don't know the pain that go along with all that i need you to be on the ground to talk you should not be out and you are claiming leadership all the names you are calling i prefer that you should give the power
37:30 - 38:00 to those who are fighting on the field stop you're i'm glad you're i'm abroad let me get your opinion regarding this issue when is the crisis on the ground and then when is the crisis industrially speaking regions ending now kapoor daniel said the crisis might just be starting but this is three years and counting a lot of suffering on the ground more than three thousand deaths more than a million displaced now are we moving closer to any solution
38:00 - 38:30 we have uh your opinion you have the mic yeah please uh you have to put on your microphone why answering a question because since you might not be able to get us if your microphone is not of dr carlson uh professor carlson brother this question is for you we're asking that three years now more than three thousand have died a lot more displays when do you think is the right time for this crisis to end there's been a lot of call for a ceasefire
38:30 - 39:00 in these two regions sisika york table i didn't get recently in a ceasefire discussion with cameron government but some of the camps or the factions of the ambassador movement are not in accordance with this ceasefire movement now what do you think is the right time for solutions to be arrived at in this crisis when is it any uh thank you very much uh i've listened to what my fellow panelists have said uh sometimes i've been lost i don't know exactly the kind of arguments i'm making which is quite amazing i just want to
39:00 - 39:30 say a number of things the first thing is that when you want to deal with something this particular problem you must clearly identify the problem and analyze it before prescribing a solution much of the things i've had clearly impresses me that they have not been able to identify what the problem is and therefore have not analyzed properly what is what our problem is and therefore cannabin prescribed a solution the second thing i want to say is i see
39:30 - 40:00 i hear people saying this or that and so on and so forth let me say what is a historical five and legal fact their responsibility for ending any war life purely and primarily on the aggressor check your history you don't take the victim to say the victory that has to um end the war so that's something you must bear in mind i've also heard you talk about 3 000 people who have been killed and so on
40:00 - 40:30 and so forth please this is fearvalizing you want to generalize the whole problem we have been able to do your commentaries on 20 25 000 people have been killed so they talked about three they have chipping city and therefore people don't take it seriously because these things oh three thousand is nothing how many people have been killed in syria how many people have been killing yemen you come at all three really nothing so please let us not civilize this particular war i've also heard people talk about people dying and who is suffering and
40:30 - 41:00 all of that trying to mourn mother and mother himself but what does anybody think when a war is declared what do you think war is not a game the moment you declare a war what you're talking about people have to die and put no after that they have to suffer and take a little bit of time i'm asking my co-founders take a little bit of time and do some mystery cross-check and find out all the liberation movements fighting in
41:00 - 41:30 africa how many years on the minimum taking any of them what are they talking about guinea bissau that one of angola you are talking about mozambique yeah algeria or any of those checklist 7c or much more recent one is tomorrow how many years does that take so please let's let let's not say this is not a childish thing here who approved because they have to be somewhere they claim some superior knowledge mother other people because it
41:30 - 42:00 happened to people with whatever thing it is no that said let me just make some proposition please the first one i want to say that the very thought of forcibly invading and occupying ambassador was an extraordinarily very bad idea and it is a very bad idea because it is impossible to crush resisting occupation
42:00 - 42:30 on their own terrain this is what the internal committee told the ruler of french cameroon when he motivated by this instinctive activistic hatred for anything what they call angry suction without thinking declare the war and it
42:30 - 43:00 was true you are making a big mistake don't think you have because you have people driving through uniform and they call them an army that will never be defeated these people one of them gave an example of america the biggest car in the world went to vietnam shoeless people and they came out their friends themselves learned this lesson into china when france was crushed i don't want to go back to european history
43:00 - 43:30 at eastern france itself was beating 1870 1871 1914 1940 by the germans i don't want to go back to that but they think of liberation was the french repeating into china because they weren't there things that are big i mean it's in the envelope the french were beaten in algeria how long the algerian war is against the french attack and the french adopted the same particular french camera adopted during the proclaiming rooftops and
43:30 - 44:00 saying largely frances lives in france you hear the same thing coming from the cameronis people who are claiming that ambassador is cameronis territory without being able to tell us exactly when and how they acquire title to the territory of amazonia so my first point therefore is the cameroonies ruler
44:00 - 44:30 unthinkingly they know this extremely bad idea of declaring war declaring what means you decide to go and kill people that's what it means declaring war you have to destroy them after you destroy property people don't know what declaring the war and getting what means that what it is of course dying of course displacement of course forcible displacement that our war is all about it's not a
44:30 - 45:00 picnic for god's sake and two must understand this and the responsibility for that can allow the people on amazonia who for the past 56 years have been proclaiming to the world the force of argument and not the argument of force i like to have issues reputations i was involved in all of these processes
45:00 - 45:30 all presented petitions reputations complaints to younger regime in that view where a nobody with an expendable lot they will not bother to listen and that's why they always use force violence i have already said torture is part of the dna of french cameroon to have forgotten very easily very very easily
45:30 - 46:00 and i won't blame the young politician of course he doesn't know because you're not born at that time that get back to you uh now let me get under the opinion of mr john barker now prof just made mention of an issue here which says that in a war situation it's the one who caught the wall should uh call for a ceasefire and now he made mention of the fact that there was a victim but now we want to find out from you who is a victim here is it those uh innocent civilians who are victim of kidnapped harassed by separatist
46:00 - 46:30 fighters or the victim here isn't the fighters on the ground because now we understand that about two victims innocent civilians being harassed you saw the images of a teacher harass recently or kidnap recently and equally the separatists now who victim or whose crime should we consider here as a victim in order to resolve this crisis i think professor carlson anyangui was making an argument and uh
46:30 - 47:00 you don't mind me just letting him actually get through the argument he was making before i pick up from there to respond to your question thank you so that was the point i was making the first one there is a point i'm making that was a bad idea for the third war on the tour the second point i just want to make is that
47:00 - 47:30 the gold which the french cameroon people had in mind are quickly defeating the emerging resistance and two tend to forget and very quickly it's an amazing approach forget you're not talking about two enemies they're confronting no they truly imagine i had no army didn't have no guns i didn't have you today listening to what reporter was saying they think they are displaying as a as what they got from from from from our fighters then guns catapults ticks and so on
47:30 - 48:00 we didn't have that so the idea that they are going to see this emerging and vaginal resistance failed and therefore the french cameron enemy has found itself broke down in a protected world in which and emphasize it it can never win as we're told by the international community and also told
48:00 - 48:30 by experts in warfare the third and last point i want to make before you take a microphone is what psychologists who have studied french cameroon troops have concluded this is what they say that these troops lack personal motivation they lack the will they lack the
48:30 - 49:00 conviction to fight in contrast extinction to the freedom fighters who many people again forget are not paid these are volunteers and the exactly that are going on there's something much more superior and higher that keeps them going and fighting so you find french cameron troops are ordered to go to a foreign land and fight
49:00 - 49:30 and they do so out of fear a white mat of what might be for them if they do not go out there and and fight and so in order to give them some modicum of appearance of of of courage and what you call in effect dutch courage what do they do they tell them some coca-cola story the kokombu story is here fighting an indivisible to keep uh
49:30 - 50:00 indivisible uh french cameroon but if something is indivisible why do you fight for it if it's in divisive what's indivisible full stop so what are you fighting for which is of course fake the second thing of course that these people have this this these troops are promised allowance for fighting one which in in the end of course does not come or if it comes it is very important and the only land is while at the front
50:00 - 50:30 because right now to speak frank carbon is broke and thoroughly broke [Music] third thing they do is to fit out their troops with some cumbersome and constraining outfits telling them that it is to protect them but if those two things they come with something's aware it limits their fighting ability and effectiveness and efficiency
50:30 - 51:00 and secondly it makes those those troops the recruits focus their minds not on the work but primarily on their personal safety truths like this can never win anywhere i can tell you that and this is a psychological analysis to who've been to war after this i'm not a an expert in the world myself
51:00 - 51:30 and this is a nice little name and it came to me really as a big surprise because i said oh yes that's what we are all observing and seeing so the final point i just want to make before uh sorry for taking much time is to say that the issue about talking about human life being lost violence and all this and so on and so forth impresses me that i think my co-panelists some of them have not
51:30 - 52:00 actually understood what we're talking about we're talking about war we're not talking here about a picnic and work necessarily means people suffering it doesn't mean people die the issue of being abroad and not being abroad is never here or death is not as if if you took all the people abroad and brought back to ambassador that was going to stop and pull become well and people often who are complaining so much about this thing actually are people who do not even feel the speed at all but the proportion claim
52:00 - 52:30 that has taken on behalf of these people i require that people should be much more measured in the way you talk and much more focus on the way they talk thank you very much now before i come back to you for bracing i know you you you have so much to say but now let me get mr john barco before uh doctor okay professor came back once again now please i just want to beg us to manage your time two minutes so that we get the opinions of everybody we see how those who are supposed to call us to share their views with us
52:30 - 53:00 waiting so mr john barkley let's have you yes sir thank you very much um i think um haven't listened to uh be co-panelists very keenly there that we are missing out here when you say it is wrong it is unacceptable to be reading from our brother i ask you the question who is complaining the people who are supposed to be complaining are the people who are on the ground being led from
53:00 - 53:30 abroad if these people or the girl who have been there from abroad are not complaining i don't see why an observer somebody who is standing somewhere comfortably you know taking his cover and everything is complaining and i want to let you know we are not dumb we know exactly why like you cameron is frustrated that there is this bridge linking the people on the mainland in the southern cameroons to the people abroad because they know that this bridge
53:30 - 54:00 creates the life wire that these two set of people are complementary and that the continuous cooperation between these two groups is what is going to deliver the results that is what like to believe the camera is most frightened about and i want to show you nothing not even all the cool feeling of all the lies that have been told to people down there on how people are enjoying yes i'm abroad right now i'm talking to you do you think i feel very comfortable where i am here
54:00 - 54:30 better than i was when i was living in my own house in yande and doing my job for which i was trained a job i did for 20 years to you know keep aside some of those kind of fallacies we were discussing these issues and to my friend we're talking about uh pan-africanism or talking about the fact that we are defending the white mass culture or korean culture that is also another issue some people are around thirdly this misinformation that what is in play
54:30 - 55:00 it is a war of language i'm sorry to disappoint you this is not a war of language we are not fighting about language we are fighting to take back our territory that territory is not a language language it's about that is rooted in the basic laws of the african union which inherited its laws from the organization of african unity
55:00 - 55:30 it is not the people of the southern california that came up with the principle of multi-possibility series in the organic text of the organization of african unity which is now the the african union here that every country in africa member of the oau an eventually member of the eu who respect the boundaries
55:30 - 56:00 they acquired at independence when there is independence that was on the 1st of january 1960 and when they applied their independence on the 1st of january 1960 were southern communities part of their territory when you begin to examine this you understand that what is at stake here has got nothing to do basically with language is an issue
56:00 - 56:30 of territory we are a people completely different in the people of la republic and nothing no amount of information is going to force us to become like the people of republic you in the minds of everyone and now when you talk about ego you talk about blood and the people in the diaspora really don't give a damn about this
56:30 - 57:00 i think that statement should be withdrawn and will run very fast because there's absolute misinformation do you recall that the same therefore right from 2016 brief non-violence every day i could continue to preach non-violence but you will not as a people not to defend themselves at a time their villages are being burnt
57:00 - 57:30 down they see their relatives have vulnerable relatives burns alive like they see children grandchildren slaughtered like pigs anyhow like it happens in gamble we see pregnant women liking gabriel like anyhow those things nobody sits down and follows them and again you have been reminded by other co-panelists
57:30 - 58:00 that it is mr problem on the 30th of november and take note of the people of the southern chemicals are not picked up weapons how many southern cameroonians had been killed even when nobody was holding a rubber gun do you remember what happened on the 22nd of september 2017 when millions of southern camellians got into the
58:00 - 58:30 october 2017 now just a few less than two weeks after what happened again they killed and killed and killed people so they could kill no more a lot of the top six of people were killed on the 4th of october 2017 even disappeared some people stopped seeing corpses several months after in forests in bushes and everywhere
58:30 - 59:00 other cameras did not react we kept calling the peace we kept saying we want the world to see exactly what was happening but when they started roasting down villages a young man sat and saw them drop into their homes seek out their parents slaughter them like pigs take out their sisters and mothers like animals what did you expect the people had to rise up and to defend themselves says war is a contribution of politics
59:00 - 59:30 by other means recall when the consortium said out there and said we were going to be completely non-violent because the construction of this day they feel non-violent what happens the governor come on came in let us negotiate and people thought they were coming in good faith but because they did not succeed in pushing through the stupid games that they play ever making promises that they knew they will
59:30 - 60:00 never fulfill because the people said we want you to be delivering on these promises before we take the the measures to call off a peaceful strike what did the government do decided to go on advantage [Music] i think of the case parents simply
60:00 - 60:30 because he had a t-shirt on him a t-shirt of the southern cameroon's natural council yeah yeah i'm so jealous reacts for two minutes each so that we maximize time to have the other opinions of that upon it's now mr fabrically now i had to stop you you had something to say your reactions to that before maybe section of some of our colors yeah yeah i really had some reactions to make because um i discovered that um there is there is a a serious um
60:30 - 61:00 misunderstanding between ourselves and our brothers on the other side i want to recall that first of all we are all citizens and the patriots of southern cameroon anybody who is abroad and fighting for the course of southern cameroon is not patriotic than myself fabrice lena who is a citizen from there that should be the first thing now the second thing is this um when uh
61:00 - 61:30 doctor prof uh uh carson said um i might not be have born by the time that they were filing against the cameron government i would like to ask him if he was born in the german era when cameroon was under the the german rule and fighting the germans and some people collaborating with the germans and thirdly again i will come to say that uh by 2016 as a student in in as a a citizen
61:30 - 62:00 from that area we were one of a group of those people that were expecting a model leadership from the separatist group in abroad and back home a model leadership there is this saying i always say luis when you want to remove the grain of sun in the eyes of your brother you should first of all look at the stick in your own eye
62:00 - 62:30 because since 2016 up to date back home we have been very confused which of the groups abroad is leading the people back home this one sign communicate counter action from this one this one said this was telling lies this one said this one is false this one say what is all this cacophony for and you say you are you are you are building an ideal country where
62:30 - 63:00 it is an imaginary country where everything will be perfect we have the opinion that there is a leadership cultural problem with the francophones with the leadership of mr bia which has been unable to solve its own internal problem as a country la republique as you call it before even managing the problems of the people of southern cameroon
63:00 - 63:30 who decided to come together even if you say they did not bet early representative from the sudden camera man with them even if they were being deceived even if it was manipulated by whatsoever or whatsoever there were representatives we should not deny that that is a fact from history that is 1960 till today it is the very southern cameroonian people that have been whining and dining with them beyond regime to marginalize their own people up to death is there very southern
63:30 - 64:00 cameroon people who are ministers in the government of cameroon that have created their own ambers that are causing havoc in northwest and southwest i don't know if the leadership of uh mr kapoor daniel mr barakuru or professor can come and give us a clear statistics of free dumb fighters in the ground and robbers kidnappers or those who are true or those who are fake the situation
64:00 - 64:30 in the northwest and sideways or in the southern cameras today is in such that even a person who is a somebody that yearns for justice cannot go there because of mutual distress fear and suspicion from whom you don't know because you might be criticizing the young regime and the set of people there to kill you as well as you are telling your brother that let us do the right thing you go there they kill you it is an insecurity problem
64:30 - 65:00 which has came to the criminals coming in and who can identify these criminals i want to take the examples like prof sighted so many other countries around the world and i would like to say that i as a person will never stand for violence or be a war monger because we have sinned in history that areas where people are permitted to hog gone up to today even with a new country
65:00 - 65:30 new leadership with their independence they are unable to control the people they gave them gone they are unable to control the armed groups that came up as foreign fighters we are talking about we are talking of eritrea we are talking of um there are so many of those places around africa and in different parts of the world today they started as freedom fighters obtain their independence when they are unable to enjoy this independence
65:30 - 66:00 because to give somebody god is easy that withdrawn is different and then first of all what we call value problem southern cameroonians have values ethics and principles that most of these people traveling out of cameroon in europe mixing with the french camarillas have been unable to maintain these values and this has been a problem that people's ego are in front of values that govern the
66:00 - 66:30 society let us face facts let us be real let us be truthful to our consciences the problem that we are having on the ground is a matter of leadership okay because i think that even in cameroon if the southern cambrian's ambassador republic has an independence today with a kind of leadership where we are unable to identify who is the president of an interim government who is the president of this movement or whatsoever
66:30 - 67:00 i don't know who is going to define the rules and regulation or draw an acceptable constitution for that people that is my problem the problem there is a transitional period and
67:00 - 67:30 during this sensational period sometimes in last even three or five years during this time this transitional pillar all the institutions that will govern that country have put in place and then there is definitely an election we are operating now in a system where people are volunteering when movements are volunteering where exactly you know various groups can compete but they are competing for the same focus for the purpose of achieving that
67:30 - 68:00 independence thank god you have mentioned yourself the infiltration of the movement and pointed out very importantly that a majority of those self-defense or vulcan gods that are kidnappers that are rapists that are wreaking half of here and there are actually forces put together by the apartheid i'm happy you identified that very
68:00 - 68:30 clearly because this is exactly what we have been saying that the the father you find there is is the father created by in order to give the impression to our people that what is before them is going to be worse but fortunately the people of the southern communities know their people they know their systems they know their mindsets and they are aware of the existence of these groups and these groups are being smoked out on a daily basis i was telling you a while
68:30 - 69:00 ago you saw the i'm sure you have seen the picture of a member of the the [Music] the the bike from bike riders and all of those things and transfer them to french cameroon and sell them to keep money for themselves how do you call that you call it chaos right
69:00 - 69:30 and that chaos is intended to make sure that they send the people's vegs so that the people can even turn against the leadership of our movement we know that the only weapon that could be you can have in his hands and so they would like to infiltrate our movement give the impression that people do not talk to themselves i assure you all right mr john barcaro thank you now
69:30 - 70:00 we take course within 10 minutes we come back to with our discussions here in the studio we are ready to listen to you those of you out there want to share your opinions with us we have 10 minutes to get your reactions and numbers on your screen let's know what you think regarding our topic for the day we're looking at the crisis in cameroon and uh the situation on the ground we asking the question when is the crisis going to end we have different opinions here on the panel of this day to find a way out and to listen to the different opinions so you can call us now and share with us what you think now
70:00 - 70:30 before we get your calls coming now let me get to you uh prof you've been listening to the different reactions and certainly what's your standpoint on this now we're looking at the way forward and certainly a way out of the crisis they say it's not yet time for the crisis to win if somebody says that it's not yet time for the crisis to end it means that person has another agenda beyond the freedom of uh the the southern cambodians
70:30 - 71:00 because if you say you are actually looking forward for the freedom of southern californians and you you can alter warts that it is not yet time for the crisis to end it means you have a benefit you are getting from behind it my people are actually their struggle is that they want to restore the the restoration of the southern cameroons is not the is a song that if it is supposed to happen supposed to be that of all southern carbons there is no individual who is more of a southern
71:00 - 71:30 camonium than another those who sit in a diaspora feel like they are more diasporians than that there are more southern carmonians and those of us who are on the ground facing the fire are making an error so i would like to inform them that the fact that the seat over there and they are actually living in luxury does not give them the guarantee that they are safe we are here facing the fire and we are the ones who actually need the freedom the most more than they think so we will not expect them that at
71:30 - 72:00 this particular moment they should alter watch that can actually make some individuals to get uh disturb you see when i see what is happening at this present moment i get to feel the same thing that is happening in southern sudan about to happen in southern cameroon for example today we got we just managed to get the independence that we we are looking for they are looking for you'll discover that at the end of day they'll be worse than southern sudan is happening my interest in these is to give directly and say let me give ideas on
72:00 - 72:30 how we can come out that's just what i expect i think that in this particular period after via had declared his war i think he's the only person that has the audacity at this moment to actually say let it stop by actually calling out the the soldiers that were sent to the northwest if he scores those soldiers out then i think that that would be an open door for us to sit down and talk things through bia at this moment as i will repeat it is the only person that has the voice who can
72:30 - 73:00 actually stop the war if he calls up his soldiers out of the southern cameroons and says okay let us sit down on the round table and discuss that is what i expect that should be happening right now it's not something it's not like we should be saying that it's not yet time for the war to end we need the war to end so that the free the people can actually experience the liberty and freedom because at this moment most of them are living in bushes which is not what they are supposed to i think then to man you are distorting the other panelists what we have said
73:00 - 73:30 here nobody have said that we don't want the war to end nobody have said that we have simply said that we are ready for the long haul somebody said that yeah somebody said don't forget that one of you said it's yours nuclear republic is in denial of the reality on the ground how do you expect us to stop we are the victim here i was uprooted from that country because i was being discriminated against you go to the german embassy
73:30 - 74:00 to the american embassy you see the amount of youth from the southern cameroon a population that is just 20 percent on the line of this embassy you will find that over 90 are people from our own territory that is we want this world to come to an end
74:00 - 74:30 then if you are you are a woman married to an abusive husband and you want divorce to have your peace you will run your you want you do everything to keep that man away from you you take in junction order to protect yourself against a brutal regime who yesterday as we speak they went to a house of one dr frutus in bamenda a normal taxi driver and ambushed that man should he tie his hands with red paper and say that he is an amber boy what about the amber boys who are going
74:30 - 75:00 around and arresting and taking taking money and killing some of our brothers is let's get the opinion of those who are calling us we told you the lines open for for other reactions to come in now let's get the reaction of do you who is calling us certainly from douala cameroon please let's get your opinion welcome to the program this is
75:00 - 75:30 span afghanistan afrik media make your opinion short and straight to the point well certainly we have difficulty
75:30 - 76:00 connecting with you like we told you the lines open for you to send in your reactions we have about 20 more minutes to leave the studio send your reactions make them very straight uh short straight to the point and without abuse we shall receive them here on the program why not leave your comments on facebook short and simple we shall read read it out here too if you have a call online is that call online good afternoon welcome to the program all right let's get back to you kapoor
76:00 - 76:30 daniel now the question will be asking you when do you think is the right time for this crisis or for negotiations to be made now you said you want the crisis to end do you have control over the fighters on the ground do they take others from you and what do you think is the right thing to do what is the way forward now many want the crisis to come to an end is there a road map that you have put in place for us to follow what is the road map yeah the work and
76:30 - 77:00 come to an end today if mr phobia make that decision he's the aggressor he has the biggest boot on the ground and the biggest guns on the ground when you enter into somebody's territory that person will defend himself until you get out of that territory there will be no ceasefire without mr phobia seizing the fire from his own end he declared this war upon us he is in our territory we are fighting on ourselves there he decides to accept the reality that this is not a problem within the
77:00 - 77:30 cameroonian borders then that day he will be able to negotiate his way out of this crisis with our final self and the gentleman beside you in his presentation he said that where was dr cass nanyangguy when the germans were they were fighting against the germans i want to remind you and your and the audience of this show that the german cameroon is not republic to cameroon the german cameroon is not the southern cameroon the german caron was a property
77:30 - 78:00 of the german government the sovereignty of that state belonged to the german government and that country and that state ceased to exist in the treaty of versailles when they surrendered the territory to the winning parties we fought for that long for that land along our brothers from nigeria and the ones that were brought from from ghana and from india by the british people my father spoke to that land and we conquered that land in war the southern cameroon is our territory it has been recognized by international
78:00 - 78:30 law we are fighting on ourselves until you identify this problem appropriately you are not even ready to prescribe a solution now in solving a territorial with national pro international problem like this you go back to the law of international law it clearly states in the african union as well as where in the helsinki airport that for any country to expand its border it needs to have a treaty a union treaty the republic the camaroon do not have
78:30 - 79:00 such treaty with the people of the southern cameroon that we call to the ambassador that is the root cause of the problem if they want to come with us and stay together like an african let us see on the table as equals if we cannot live together because now this relationship because of the death and killing of mr phobia is beyond repair a declaration for independence have already been made we are now fighting to defend that territorial integrity and the republic dukamaru will be brought to his knees
79:00 - 79:30 to recognize the legality in which we operate on that we are on the right side of the law and mr phobia is not he will not win us you're calling us from welcome to the program hello welcome to pan-african debate yes good afternoon your life
79:30 - 80:00 there to tell me exactly what the meaning of ambassador welcome to the program we're having a call online let's have his opinion okay we see having challenges getting
80:00 - 80:30 through with the call certainly let's talk with you professor carlson before we get back to uh callers on the line who have the opinions as well to share hello welcome to the program
80:30 - 81:00 okay let's talk with professor carson now professor carlson uh we are at this crossroad now it's very important that many have been calling for a ceasefire so way out of the crisis or for possible negotiations to begin now the question we're asking is will these kidnappings and the tortures or the kidnappings which aren't going on the ground will it end if there was a ceasefire today because many are complaining that they've become victims of kidnappings another race you saw a recent video of a teacher
81:00 - 81:30 now how we show that even if there's a ceasefire today these kidnappings will not still continue let's have this car before we come back to you professor just once a few seconds please
81:30 - 82:00 let's get back to you professor carlson the technicians are working on that possibly before we get back to you professor carlson let's have your opinion
82:00 - 82:30 professor practice fighters are not in accordance with with the other camps now what we're asking is well this cannot be stopped if in case there's a ceasefire today because most importantly it's the challenges that those in the ground are going through that question reminds me what i said that look um people do not understand
82:30 - 83:00 war and the nature of war i've said it repeatedly and the panelists who are here who don't seem to understand it keep on talking as if we are in a park this is a game the other things i mentioned are all what are called the incident of war and there is no war that has taken place whether in europe and africa where they have that kind of incidence now if you were to have what you call a ceasefire i will tell you that we are not interested in so-called ceasefire
83:00 - 83:30 because by definition a ceasefire means that his top facilities and at the same point then after that you resume the hospitality how does that benefit in brazilian how does that benefit us we are interested in complete cessation of hostility that's what we are interested in not in this episodic uh cease fire you cease fire for ten days afterwards you resume the fighting you see this fire but now there's no resume we are not interested in that we want
83:30 - 84:00 total cessation of hostilities and that's what we are going at so when i hear people making uh references talking about the usual bogey uh with tricky and cross purposes conjoining the image of of of south sudan and somewhere going back to a german period pure things which actually i would beg to say they should do some much more reading to understand these things before we talk about them
84:00 - 84:30 and it's just like uh kapoor daniel said you must understand what you talk about german german german gemini what is the incident of that it has a political incident as a legal incident it has an international incident yet we're here for just shouting parties like food paradise that oh commercial in 1884 uh that's when this thing and so on and you know how the history that went far far beyond for 1884 so please second thing i want to mention is that we are never going to tell us tell
84:30 - 85:00 people outside our strategy our fighting strategy who can connect with dream and labor that we are diving into factions they want to see us to be one whatever one met that might mean all of that kind of a thing and so on you know anybody who studied historic warfare whose story is we know what i think it doesn't make any complete sense at all we are not going to do that and what most of i hear them saying here is that actually we should ask we should surrender
85:00 - 85:30 god forbid it's not going to happen and i hear people talk about negotiation we don't understand the dynamics of negotiation what is what if i ask what is the negotiation i'm sure very few people understand among my my my panelists still understand but these are expression words often jump into and start talking would have to understand what it is to use the same words interchangeably negotiation next time hear them talking about mediation next year they hear about dialogue next
85:30 - 86:00 year we hear about facilitating and so on they don't have a slightest clue what all of these things mean finally let me say this that and i said it because i don't want your listener to go away with your impression well being i've been at least being misrepresented here somebody has consistently been saying um that i said we don't want the world to end of course when somebody don't understand something you create their own imagery and then
86:00 - 86:30 you work on that image i never said that the question was when is the world going to end us let's have this opinion we've been struggling to get in touch with those on the ground whose opinions equally want to receive here now we have call online welcome to the program hello and welcome to the program your life on pan african debate okay can i speak french or english
86:30 - 87:00 uh it's an english program please your peers english so i'm doctor numa melinda teres i'm calling from france greetings to my brothers of nozzle who are there i'm very glad to see you together and i'm returning my prayers as you know every time that you have been contacting me or you come with your sport i have one word only one that let us stop
87:00 - 87:30 this fools war brothers and sisters our people are dying home we don't have to continually seeing them struggling dying for nothing you know i have been praying with cardinal tumi as you know since the the beginning of this war asking you people please
87:30 - 88:00 cool down yes even you have uh you you are right but when it comes to lose people as we are losing it is time to say enough is enough brothers please you cannot be seeing your people dying and you are talking what you are talking there i'm saying that the game is over forever in the name of
88:00 - 88:30 god as i always tell you let us put our knees down and pray our god almighty god that praise praise be to the lord he is the only one who can put his hand on right thank you very much just have to wrap up but we are definitely going to be giving me two minutes it's pl please we'll beg that you respect the
88:30 - 89:00 time two minutes make your opinions within uh the two minutes we might not wish to cut you but let your opinion be within uh two minutes maximum so that we can get the opinion of every other person now uh let me uh begin with uh with you uh couple down here now what we're ending the program what is your last message in your last word two minutes please say that let me begin with you our people are being killed they have been slaughtered systematically by mr povondo
89:00 - 89:30 and his machinery on the ground we are not dying those people have been killed every day you saw the baby baby mata a four months a four years old baby he was shot on the head four times these people are not dying they are being murdered it is a systematic genocide we are fighting to defend our life our existence we have the right to do so and we are going to win we are winning this war and we are winning badly mr phobia is giving fake information about what is happening on the ground general okoro of pinging is alive and he
89:30 - 90:00 is well our forces are alive and they are doing well this cameron army they go around in our abilities burning people hoping that we are going to catch the the logic of the of the uh makizawa we are not going to surrender our future to the camaron government because they are killing our people we will fight and defend that land onto the last man standing they will come to their senses and realize that only true genocide which the world will not sit silence forever we will fight and defend our land
90:00 - 90:30 unto them leave our land if they want to negotiate they are welcome to come and meet us as equal partner and negotiate their exit from our territory thank you mr fabrice lena yeah yeah um i would like to make just some brief analysis on what mr capo dania has said and what prof said earlier because i have the impression that um they they don't want to solve the problem they rather think that the solution is only the separation but i think that if the government the the
90:30 - 91:00 mr mia's government is insisting that the only solution is for cameron to be one and indivisible and mr kapoor dania and the other are insisting that the only solution is an ambassador state then there is there is going to the they are going to put the life of the millions of people in compromise and that is for me inhumane on the side of mr pogbia and on the side of mr kapoor daniel and the rest because negotiations or giving into dialogue or discussion
91:00 - 91:30 has to do with you uh giving a little bit of your conviction and the other taking from the other person in order to save the life of people who are dying they are not the one dying and and it's neither mr paul bear and his colleagues that are dying it is the masses that are suffering from this i want to also remind that colonel ojoku of of nigeria and the biafran war during the biafra war even though the biafran history and situation was quite different from that of cameroon in terms of context
91:30 - 92:00 history and everything but he was on the ground as the commander-in-chief of the biafran army and when he saw that his people were dying in a certain number he had to flex and tell ephem to go and negotiate on behalf of the biafra and they are living comfortably in nigeria today we should not be equalistic because we we think that if not our opinion another one doesn't count no we are living here we have been i am a young guy i have been i have been caught up to set severally i have been i have been into into cell
92:00 - 92:30 because of my conviction for southern cameroon but it doesn't mean that if it comes to negotiation i will not come and beg my brothers that capo daniel you think this issue we need to see into it what to give to cameron government and what not to give to common government in order that our people may be safe it is a matter of life here and it should be life first as i always say in all my declarations the people first and if you are for the people first you shouldn't tell me that um if not what i think or what we think
92:30 - 93:00 nothing else and people are dying when then are we heading to i think that we need to listen to the voice of god we need to listen to our consciences we need to think of justice we need to think of reconciliation and truth commission after this crisis no matter how long it will take that will come to be established and people have to be investigated of their crimes all right do what you may not be judged tomorrow thank you very much let me get to you dr carlson now yeah what's your last let me say
93:00 - 93:30 we've done a lot of things purposes here i don't think we understand each other so everybody's going at the tangent that's my first one the second point is the last speaker i'm glad he just says it was just he has an impression that's just an impression we don't know correspond with reality i heard that the color we talked of no so again that's another you know that's our new name now we are not branding it's like we're told you are northwest southwest you are giving names and so
93:30 - 94:00 the new name will not have what is is no so like the slave master branding the slaves finally i want to say that for all this talk i hear uh uh our contributor saying here none has struck a responsive code in my mind at all in my head what they simply be doing is lampooning insulting and blaming their victim and victimizing to be beating all over again i'd be much happier if they are taking the discourse i'm going
94:00 - 94:30 to yeah only there and confronting miss idea and be telling him you started this world you end this world instead they are turning the whole thing around and asking the victim to be the one who should end the war i've never seen a situation like this it's like you are going all around and asking the allied forces who are fighting hitler to end the war he's not asking hitler who started the war in the first place and when hitler refused he got his judge
94:30 - 95:00 he said so that's my last point which i just want to say we cannot surrender and we are never going to surrender if that was the understanding of pieces i have said this before the oppressive peace is never the peace of the oppressed thank you thank you very much professor carlson prof mark antonia i i've been listening to all the panelists and i feel a little bit
95:00 - 95:30 disturbed considering the fact that most of them talk from abroad i'll still hold on that professor carson is talking of we will not surrender we are not asking for surrender i believe that the most important thing at this hour is to think of the very lives of the people we say we are fighting for when we think about their lives we think about the situation which they are undergoing right now it
95:30 - 96:00 is time for us to ask and call for that negotiation i believe that if the opportunity for negotiation comes we should take it and there should be a place of compromise i believe that compromise you can't keep on standing on one position and saying that this is what i want and the other person saying this is what i want we will never come to an end okay and as long as we will not come to an end the people who are going to be suffering are not you who is sitting are
96:00 - 96:30 brought there and looking at and talking right now to the media it's not mr b we're sitting in yonder and his troops the people on the ground are the ones suffering all right and i expect that we should get to a point where we can negotiate we should ask for that we should ask for that and we should take that advantage and go for that negotiation stop stop all that talk of we are not going to surrender all right thank you very much uh let me end with you uh mr john barcaro your last day
96:30 - 97:00 i want to say very quickly that uh mixes up a lot of issues and he doesn't really tell us where he's coming from when you keep making reference to german cameroon i'd like to ask you who was the president of german cameroon was there really any german cameroon that existed as a country on its own because of independence i didn't hear anything about cameroon
97:00 - 97:30 i can and knock off that one and move on to the next point when you come out here you have set yourself clearly that the one man who has the power to stop this war is misapobia why then are you appealing to our consciences why should you appeal to our consciences when you know clearly that we don't have the power to stop that law because we never declared it in the first place this is a fundamental issue when you tell us you tell the world it is that god will declare this world
97:30 - 98:00 he has the power to to to end it you say it is inhumane from one to one negotiations i'd like to ask you a lot of opportunities have been given to the rpg cameroon to pursue negotiation which one did they respect even the one that we are considered
98:00 - 98:30 called special status which will be rejected even though they are constitutional issues there is no point getting into any kind of workings or any kind of arrangement with someone that never gives to any engagement
98:30 - 99:00 i want to assure you the people the leadership of the southern communities movements we are already ready for peace dogs ready for negotiations any time like the victims of we are surrendered many times over that
99:00 - 99:30 surrender never kept our people safe any time we have surrendered they have continued to plunder to kill to name and to see let me tell you my dear brother and remember in 2010 an envoy of the united nations offered mr tobia two maps and made clear those are two
99:30 - 100:00 maps of the two camera rooms so it is not us fabricating it is not a party that we trust party that we think we can live and grow in and somebody said that our people are going and enriching like people do you come along it's not a big rich right now the suffering all the mess that we see over there that's exactly what we are away from and to make okay uh mr john barco
100:00 - 100:30 we begged for two minutes only so we very much appreciate your opinions we know there's a lot to say and certainly there's still a long way to go you followed up the debate and we're looking at the situation in cameroon the big question was when is the crisis in these two english-speaking regions coming to an end more than 3000 have died more than a million out of their homes and more than 800 students out of school as a result of the crisis that's in the two english-speaking regions well thank you very much gentlemen who did take off time to be part of the program
100:30 - 101:00 so far obviously now uh professor carson mr john barkuro kapoor danielle uh professor carlson mr john um background want to thank you so very much for coming on your different participation those of you call those view texts we very much appreciate every broadcast of the program will be yours on monday and today thanks so very much for chatting we see the topic again since it's a developing story more is coming up we hope to have time to discuss again stay tuned for more programs on africa
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