Debate rages over women's right to choose late term abortions | 60 Minutes Australia

Summary

The 60 Minutes Australia segment delves into the controversial and emotionally charged issue of late-term abortions. The show presents personal stories of women who faced the heart-wrenching decision to terminate their pregnancies due to severe fetal abnormalities. The debate pits the deeply personal and emotional experiences of these women against the political and ethical challenges posed by anti-abortion advocates in Australia. National Party Senator Julian McGauran is pushing for a ban on abortions beyond 20 weeks, highlighting a societal debate that touches on the moral lines societies draw, the evolving medical capabilities, and the personal rights of women. The program explores this emotionally complex terrain, presenting viewpoints from both sides of the debate and illustrating the nuanced nature of choices women must sometimes make.

Highlights

• Natalie Withers faced an agonizing decision at 20 weeks due to severe fetal abnormalities. 💭
• Fiona and Maverick Richards had to terminate their pregnancy at 24 weeks due to a tumor. 💔
• The story stirs the debate over the ethical implications of late-term abortions. 🚨
• Senator McGauran proposes a ban on abortions past 20 weeks, stirring controversy. 🔥
• Dr. Grundmann continues performing late-term abortions amid intense scrutiny. 👨‍⚕️
• Personal stories illustrate the profound impact and emotional complexity of late-term abortions. 🤰
• Anti-abortion advocate Anne Darling is willing to be jailed for her beliefs. 🚔
• The program captures both the personal grief and political battle over reproductive rights. 🎭

Key Takeaways

• Late-term abortions are a highly contentious topic, with emotional and ethical implications. 🧐
• Personal stories highlight the heart-wrenching decisions women face with severe fetal abnormalities. 💔
• National discussions in Australia reflect global debates over the moral lines in reproductive rights. 🌏
• Debate includes strong opposition from anti-abortion advocates like Senator Julian McGauran. 🚫
• Medical professionals, like Dr. David Grundmann, continue to perform these procedures despite societal pushback. 💉
• The conversation on abortion reveals diverse perspectives and deeply personal narratives. 📚
• The societal debate often faces conflicts between medical advice and personal beliefs. 🤔
• Even in legal frameworks, emotional and ethical dilemmas persist for those involved. 😔

Overview

In this engaging episode of 60 Minutes Australia, the show dives into the emotional and ethical quagmire surrounding late-term abortions. Through poignant personal accounts, viewers are introduced to women who faced the devastating decision to terminate pregnancies due to severe fetal conditions. These stories reveal the deep personal impacts and the complicated ethical considerations that intersect at the heart of this issue.

The program highlights the ongoing debate in Australia over the legality and morality of late-term abortions, with figures like National Party Senator Julian McGauran advocating for stricter laws. His call to ban abortions beyond 20 weeks echoes a broader societal debate that grapples with where to draw moral lines in the context of advancing medical capabilities and women's rights. Interviews with both medical professionals and lawmakers give voice to the spectrum of views, showing that this debate is far from simple.

Despite the legality of abortions in some Australian states, the emotional narratives from those who have undergone the procedure make evident the complex, often painful decisions involved. The episode captures the essence of a societal conflict that is at once personal and public, emphasizing the varying perspectives and profound impacts on those involved in this ongoing discourse.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: The Miracle of Emerging Life The chapter delves into the miraculous process of emerging life, focusing on the development of a child. It includes vivid imagery of a developing baby, highlighting that by 20 weeks or nearly five months, the baby's features are distinctly recognizable. Additionally, the chapter touches upon a segment about two women, suggesting their stories or experiences will be explored further.
• 00:30 - 02:30: Natalie Wither's Story The chapter "Natalie Wither's Story" discusses the sensitive issue of late-term abortion, portraying it as a contentious topic in an ongoing debate. Natalie Wither, a mother of four daughters, shares her personal experience and perspective. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing and addressing the complexities surrounding late-term abortion and highlights the societal reactions she encounters when mentioning her four daughters, suggesting misconceptions or judgment from others. The narrative focuses on the human and emotional aspects of the abortion debate, shedding light on individual stories and the broader societal attitudes.
• 02:30 - 03:30: Fiona and Maverick Richards' Story The chapter narrates the story of Natalie Withers, who already had three daughters and was expecting a fourth girl. Natalie had started referring to her unborn daughter by the name Delaney once she was certain of the baby's gender. However, during a routine 19-week ultrasound, Natalie received devastating news about a massive abnormality involving great big gaping holes.
• 03:30 - 04:30: The Anti-Abortion Lobby The chapter titled 'The Anti-Abortion Lobby' discusses a difficult decision faced by a woman named Natalie. At 20 weeks into her pregnancy, it was discovered that her baby's organs were in the wrong positions, with the stomach and liver reversed. This condition also prevented the spleen from forming. Natalie was faced with the heart-wrenching choice of either carrying the pregnancy to full-term, knowing that the baby would likely be stillborn or opting for an abortion. She ultimately chose to abort the pregnancy. The narrative highlights that many people, who have not experienced such situations, might not understand the emotional and physical reality of being presented with a baby, regardless of the circumstances of its birth or the decisions made.
• 04:30 - 08:00: The Abortion Debate The chapter titled 'The Abortion Debate' likely deals with the complexities and emotional aspects surrounding the topic of abortion. It begins by introducing Fiona and Maverick Richards, who are accustomed to dealing with tragedy. Maverick, a former SAS soldier, experienced the loss of 18 comrades in the Black Hawk helicopter crash of 1996. The chapter takes a hopeful turn as it recounts the story of Fiona and Maverick's pregnancy, symbolizing a new beginning for the couple. This narrative possibly serves as an entry point into the broader discussion on abortion, illustrating the deeply personal nature of the debate.
• 08:00 - 09:00: The Reality of Late-Term Abortions The chapter titled 'The Reality of Late-Term Abortions' delves into the emotional and heart-wrenching experience of a couple who had suffered a lot of loss in their lives. They were overjoyed to find out they were pregnant, going through multiple tests to confirm the pregnancy, which was about five weeks along. However, their joy turned into despair when, at 19 weeks, a massive tumor was discovered in their baby's heart. Doctors informed them that there was no hope, leading to the difficult topic of late-term abortions.
• 09:00 - 10:30: The Personal Impact of Late-Term Abortions Chapter Title: The Personal Impact of Late-Term Abortions Chapter Summary: Fiona shares her difficult experience of deciding to terminate her pregnancy at 24 weeks due to medical reasons. Her baby was diagnosed with a condition making survival outside the womb impossible, compelling Fiona and her partner to make a heart-wrenching decision to abort during the late second trimester. This experience highlights the emotional and personal impact of late-term abortion, acknowledging the human characteristics of the unborn child during this stage of development.
• 10:30 - 14:00: Final Reflections and Outro This chapter discusses the debate around banning late-term abortions in Australia. The focus is on the viewpoint of National Party Senator Julian McGauran, who advocates for banning terminations beyond 20 weeks. The chapter touches on the reasoning behind choosing 20 weeks as the cutoff point, reflecting a belief that public opinion is shifting towards supporting restrictions on late-term abortions.

Debate rages over women's right to choose late term abortions | 60 Minutes Australia Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 it is the miracle of emerging life graphic images of the developing child [Music] by 20 weeks or nearly five months baby's features are clearly recognizable tonight we'll make two women who had to
• 00:30 - 01:00 abort their unborn children at this point and discover why late term abortion has become the new battleground in an old war you so four daughters definitely four daughters and my other three daughters all say the same if I say three to people they say no ma'am poor so we all
• 01:00 - 01:30 say that she's included yes Natalie withers already had three daughters when she fell pregnant with another girl I sort of had two names in mind and yeah I was sort of referring to her by that name when I knew that she was a girl for sure yet which was Delaney but a routine ultrasound at 19 weeks brought devastating news massive normality - great big gaping holes you
• 01:30 - 02:00 know hard in the tubes were in incorrect position and her stomach and liver were reversed which meant that her spleen couldn't form two functioning size at 20 weeks Natalie had to decide whether to carry her baby full-term and deliver it probably stillborn or to abort the pregnancy she decided to abort most people that I speak to now who haven't dealt with it don't realize that you're presented with a little baby the same as you would be
• 02:00 - 02:30 full-term just that they're smaller Fiona and maverick Richards were familiar with tragedy as an SAS soldier mavs had seen 18 of his mates die in the Black Hawk helicopter crash of 1996 when Fiona and MAV fell pregnant two years ago it was a new beginning I've had a
• 02:30 - 03:00 lot of loss in my life and this is the first time that I've had something tangible to hang on to you know child you know first child and yeah over the moon just wouldn't believe that we were pregnant until we had every test done and then the blood blood tests came back and confirmed that we were about five weeks pregnant so mommy will remain but their joy was short-lived see the heart being that white mess there yeah I talked to Mertz off at 19 weeks a massive tumor was discovered in the heart doctors advised there was no hope
• 03:00 - 03:30 the baby would not survive outside the womb and probably not even make full-term and that's when we decided we've got no choice we're gonna have to just pull our strength together and get through and terminate this pregnancy at 24 weeks Fiona's baby was aborted late in the second trimester her gravely ill child would have looked like this displaying clear human characteristics
• 03:30 - 04:00 for Australia's anti-abortion Lobby that sufficient reason to consider banning late terminations the abortion is too good a word for it it is child destruction National Party Senator Julian McGauran believes he's in step with changing public opinion no Goren's view is the termination beyond 20 weeks should be banned why have you chosen 20 why haven't you chosen 19 chosen 21 why the distinction at 20 weeks well well of
• 04:00 - 04:30 course my position is that abortion itself is is wrong you when you believe it's a human being all abortion is wrong but there seems to be a particular fault or horror about late term abortions and it's ever on the increase and 20 weeks is the accepted viability stage of the human of the baby and we have gone well beyond that I mean that there are case examples of 32 weeks now that should be stopped it's at 8 to 12 weeks that most
• 04:30 - 05:00 abortions in Australia are carried out at that stage the fetus is just 7 centimeters long and it's a simple procedure between 20 and 24 weeks the growing fetus is already displaying most of the features it will have at birth if born at 23 weeks though premature some baby survived and this is why late
• 05:00 - 05:30 term abortion is so contentious because it raises the question where the problems suffered by the fetus are in themselves sufficient to terminate life would you perform a late-term abortion if there was a serious heart abnormality if that abnormality created a crisis in the family sufficient for them to want the pregnancy terminated that's when I would consider the operation spina bifida if it's yes Down syndrome
• 05:30 - 06:00 syndrome turn out at all the time we just move the head of the ultrasound around till we get the image that you want to the anti-abortion lobby dr. David Grundmann is a butcher he's one of the few doctors in Australia willing to carry out late terminations and one of the few willing to speak out on this debate speech politics the abortion debate has been had it's over and done
• 06:00 - 06:30 with it's been a dead issue for 30 years the conservative right the religious conservative right is trying to create an opening to try to take the right of choice away from women in Australia and the only way they can do that is by trying to split her people who are pro-choice into those who find abortion fellating gestation distasteful senator why are we sitting here having this discussion I thought it was all sorted out 30 years ago well the line has shifted 30 years ago the law just didn't
• 06:30 - 07:00 contemplate late-term abortions at all look is this wedge politics on your part you are putting your hand up and saying let's bring the emotive issue of late term abortion into the public forum and then hopefully that will lead to a ban on all abortions no it's not look this is far from which politics this is a you know a hot-button moral ethical issue it's hardly wage policy it has nothing to do with politics quite frankly I don't see the political advantage for either side this has everything to do with values and the tenants that we wish to
• 07:00 - 07:30 run our society on abortion has always been controversial but it's a decision no woman takes lightly this woman is eight weeks pregnant and she's courageously given us permission to film her procedure it's the first time a termination has been filmed in an Australian abortion clinic and a warning
• 07:30 - 08:00 some viewers may find it distressing to watch it's a relatively routine procedure but nonetheless clinical and unpleasant abortions had been legal in some states of Australia since 1969 but if Julie and McGowan has his way the clock is about to be rolled back so do you want a ban on late term abortion I'll be more than happy to support legislation through the Parliament to ban late-term abortions and certainly
• 08:00 - 08:30 the method to which they're undertaken what techniques do you use to perform late term abortions we use a range of techniques I'm not going to go into the specifics because I don't believe that it advances as a debate on either side terribly much do you pierce the baby's head with a sharp instrument as I said I'm not going to discuss details or specifics about procedures because I don't think that you or the public needs to know specifics at that very small number of procedures if I'm talking to a
• 08:30 - 09:00 medical audience I'll have no problem discussing procedures because I understand it is that because the procedure is so bad and so explicit and destructive it's because it's because the anti-choice people like to create hysteria and that's an aspect of late abortion which I don't think that the public really needs to debate only 2% of abortions are considered late-term it's a potent weapon for
• 09:00 - 09:30 anti-abortion protesters like and darling if there is a baby on the road you would jump on the road stop the traffic to pick up the baby I can't pick up the baby but I can stop the traffic Anne has seven children of her own but is prepared to go to jail for the cause
• 09:30 - 10:00 she's been arrested 25 times a baby's gonna die her baby's gonna be killed what do you do you hand someone a leaflet about it no you block the door and that's what we do we definitely did do the right thing because we weren't able to say that at the time that it was the right thing because we're so overwhelmed by feelings of guilt and loss and grief but once we were able to think about it basically we
• 10:00 - 10:30 did we had no choice it's not about the woman well no well the women of course do not have a unfettered choice in this matter if society is going to lead itself down that slippery slope where they will start aborting late-term on the grounds of disability then then where do you draw the line where is the new line but we're not talking disability we're talking severe abnormalities abnormalities that specialists have told the parents will kill their child with modern medicine a great many of these physical
• 10:30 - 11:00 disabilities can be fixed up it's a nonsense argument to say that that you've been given evidence or diagnosis by a doctor of a disability and that is exactly how it will be born quite often it is not the senator or the doctor well I know of many many examples and many doctors speak to me about it that there's a proliferative misdiagnosis I mean how close are we going to get to the point of infanticide what if this
• 11:00 - 11:30 woman is taught by a cardiologist by her obstetrician that your child has no chance of surviving doesn't the woman have the right to make a decision about what she want well it's my view that she doesn't if she's been given all those views that were meant and many equally case examples of survival and that that child ought to be given a chance to survive I would have probably killed myself if I didn't if I didn't if I could not to me that pregnancy if I had to carry that baby for another four months feeling that kicking and then knowing that this baby once it's a fully grown baby was
• 11:30 - 12:00 going to die I could not I could not be with that excuse me would like to speak to you if weekend yeah we are we're a couple that did have to have a light term abortion when it comes to abortion emotions run high on both sides whatever or a thirty year old whose baby's dying that is a very personal thing notion but in the argument once seemed black and
• 12:00 - 12:30 white you are either for or against but the focus on late term abortion has brought shades of gray you've got to decide what you think is right for yourself you know what no one else could have decided that for me I was the one carrying that baby I was the one suffering it was my loss it was my grief I had to deal with it the way that the only way I knew how to [Music]
• 12:30 - 13:00 at a Melbourne Cemetery Natalie mourns the girl she never held for years on the pain hasn't receded at times that hurt so great she even thought of ending her own life yeah I really didn't want to live the pain anymore so there was probably times of
• 13:00 - 13:30 thinking that I would have rather gone be with her she looked pained when she was born she was born with her mouth open and if I was confronted with it again I could not do it again [Music] I couldn't play God again hello I'm Liz
• 13:30 - 14:00 Hayes thanks for watching to keep up with the latest from 60 minutes Australia make sure you subscribe to our channel you can also download the 9 now app for full episodes and other exclusives 60 minutes content