Dr. Brooke Wheeler - LEAD 606 September 2024

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In this engaging talk, Dr. Brooke Wheeler, Superintendent of Education Services for the North Carolina Department of Corrections, shares her journey and insights on leadership. With experience managing educational programs in correctional institutions, Dr. Wheeler emphasizes the significance of personal and relational power in leadership. She shares personal anecdotes highlighting the importance of kindness, courage, and self-awareness in overcoming challenges and building effective teams. Her insights offer valuable guidance for current and future leaders, especially in high-stakes environments like correctional institutions.

Highlights

Dr. Wheeler's journey from teacher to superintendent highlights the value of diverse experiences. 🌟
Empathy in leadership involves understanding and acknowledging team members' challenges. 🌈
Effective leadership relies on personal power derived from relationships and authenticity. 🌿
Building relational power is essential for leaders without formal authority in institutional settings. 🏢
Creating a culture of kindness in leadership can lead to more committed and motivated teams. 💪
Leaders should learn from every experience and use it to grow both personally and professionally. 📈
Encouraging open communication can help manage power dynamics and conflicts effectively. 🔊

Key Takeaways

Leadership is about developing personal and relational power, not positional power. 🤝
Kindness and empathy are key in leadership, even during tough decisions like terminations. 💗
Building relationships with team members is crucial for achieving goals. 🏆
Being genuine and authentic is essential in leadership roles. 🌟
Address conflict with a focus on mutual goals and common ground. 🛤️
Continuous learning and adapting are crucial components of effective leadership. 📚
Leaders should focus on caring about their team's personal and professional growth. 🌱

Overview

Dr. Brooke Wheeler, currently the Superintendent of Education Services for the North Carolina Department of Corrections, shared her extensive journey through various roles within the education sector. Starting as a teacher and advancing through roles like assistant principal and principal in both public schools and correctional facilities, Dr. Wheeler discussed her unique career path and the insights gleaned from her experiences.

Throughout the conversation, Dr. Wheeler emphasized the importance of kindness in leadership. She shared stories illustrating how a compassionate approach can foster trust and respect within a team. Dr. Wheeler also highlighted the power of personal and relational influence in leadership rather than mere positional authority, which she finds crucial in her role overseeing educational programs across multiple correctional institutions.

Dr. Wheeler concluded by encouraging leaders to continuously reflect, learn, and adapt to new challenges. She shared practical strategies on how to remain effective and humane in high-pressure environments, emphasizing that true leadership comes from understanding and enhancing the strengths of those around you while also striving for personal growth.

Chapters

00:00 - 01:30: Introduction and Background of Dr. Brooke Wheeler The chapter introduces Dr. Brooke Wheeler, who is the Superintendent of Education Services for the North Carolina Department of Corrections. The speaker expresses excitement in introducing her and mentions having worked with Dr. Wheeler through the Second Chance initiative. The chapter sets the stage for Dr. Wheeler to discuss courage, conflict, and challenges, aligning with the theme of the class.
01:30 - 04:14: Leadership Experiences in Correctional Education In this chapter, the speaker introduces the topic by greeting the audience and acknowledging the weather conditions. The speaker then outlines the plan to share some personal experiences related to leadership in correctional education, followed by a round table discussion. The intention is to involve students in an interactive conversation, emphasizing the value of shared dialogue and learning from one another.
04:14 - 08:00: Leadership Styles and Power Dynamics Brooke Wheeler, the superintendent for the Department of Adult Correction, outlines her role in managing educational programs across 54 correctional institutions in North Carolina. She emphasizes the importance of these programs in the context of correctional facilities, offering a glimpse into her leadership style and how it influences power dynamics within the department.
08:00 - 12:00: Building Relationships and Personal Development The chapter focuses on building relationships and personal development, specifically in the context of leadership. The speaker shares their journey in the education sector, highlighting their progression from a teacher to an assistant principal, and eventually to a principal in public schools. This journey took them through elementary, middle, and high schools, providing a diverse range of experiences that contributed to their understanding of leadership and personal growth.
12:00 - 15:00: Challenges and Strategies in Leadership The narrative begins with the speaker discussing their unconventional career path in leadership within the correctional education system, starting as a principal in a juvenile justice setting and advancing to manage educational initiatives at state-level prisons for both women and men. The speaker reflects on their unique journey in leadership roles and expresses gratitude for the experiences and growth it has afforded them.
15:00 - 57:00: Q&A Session with Students The chapter titled 'Q&A Session with Students' features a discussion where the speaker shares insights and experiences from their journey in leadership. Initially, the speaker believed in strictly adhering to rules and solving all problems as they entered their first leadership role after college. Over time, the speaker learned many lessons, which they are eager to share to help others avoid the same challenges.
57:00 - 59:00: Conclusion and Final Thoughts The chapter focuses on the nuanced dynamics of power in leadership positions. It emphasizes the importance of being firm, fair, and consistent as foundational traits. However, it highlights that genuinely developing power involves continuous learning and relationship-building. Even after 28 years in the field, the speaker acknowledges daily learning and growth, stressing the need to enhance professional relationships. The chapter identifies different types of power, such as personal, positional, and relational, suggesting a multifaceted approach to leadership effectiveness.

Dr. Brooke Wheeler - LEAD 606 September 2024 Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 excellent well thank you all for joining us tonight I am really excited to introduce you all to Dr Brooke wheeler um she is the superintendent of Education Services for the North Carolina Department of Corrections I've had a chance to work with her um through our Second Chance initiative and given the the topic of this class um you know courage conflict and challenges um I know she can speak to a number of those challenges so with that I'll turn it over to you Dr Wheeler the floor is
00:30 - 01:00 yours okay well good evening everyone I hope you've all had a good day and staying uh dry in this nasty weather um so I thought I would just talk for a few minutes kind of about my some of my experiences and then maybe open it up to a a discussion a round table um conversation so I hope that you students who are on here I hope you'll join in this in this discussion with me um so I'll just start with a a little bit of
01:00 - 01:30 my experience so um I am currently so my name is Brooke wheeler I am the superintendent currently for the department of adult correction what does that mean that means that I manage all education programming for the state of North Carolina in um Correctional institutions which are also known as prisons um we have 54 of those and many many many educational programs and I'm thrilled to talk about that more um if
01:30 - 02:00 anybody has questions about that or in another venue but wanted to talk tonight specifically uh about leadership as I was asked to do um so just a little bit about my experience I uh started as a teacher even though I had no intention of doing so started as a teacher um became an assistant principal then a principal all in public schools so I did the very normal tour of uh elementary middle and high schools and then I
02:00 - 02:30 became the principal in a juvenile justice setting um from there became the principal in a women's prison and then a Men's prison and then moved up to the state level so I'm now managing all of those um a little bit of an unusual um path but it has been mine and it continues to be mine and I am blessed to have it so uh just a little bit though about leadership um so I I have to tell you that in the beginning of my time as a
02:30 - 03:00 leader like many many moons ago uh at this point I began with this idea that like I had to draw hard lines in the sand and follow the rules to the letter right I mean I think most of us when we get out of college and we we get our first leadership job like we think okay I'm gonna fix it all um and over time I learned a lot of things so I hope that I can share some of those with you today uh and maybe you won't have to learn them the hard way um but I did I learned
03:00 - 03:30 I mean you do have to be firm fair and consistent right but there's so much more to developing power in a position of leadership um every day even after 28 years I learn new things and I work to develop and I and enhance the relationships with those that I um have a professional responsibility in relationship with but um you know as you have all discussed probably in class I would guess there are so many different types of of power so personal positional and and relational are a few of those um
03:30 - 04:00 I believe very firmly that it is quite important to positively approach building and navigating those power dynamics in a leadership role I'd like to talk a little bit uh about each of those briefly and then try um to to again open it up to discussion um I would argue though that personal and relational power are by far the most useful
04:00 - 04:30 types of um Power if you will and I really don't like that term I really don't like the term power but you know as a leader uh some people become a leader so that they get power um I firmly disagree with that purpose with that that um goal in mind but uh personal power comes as you probably know from personality experiences skills knowledge those kinds of things relational power comes from creating relationships that help us
04:30 - 05:00 achieve goals or objectives and so I would I would tell you that I use a very close combination of the two maybe so close that you can't even tell the difference between the two um a lot of times it's a quick story though so I became the principal in the Juvenile Justice setting right and these are these are 13 to 21 year olds who have committed usually a pretty heinous crime to be in that kind of a setting um it's a secure setting it's kind of like a a
05:00 - 05:30 kid prison if you will um all male no female in there and I'm walking down I didn't know this at the time but as I'm walking down the the sidewalk every so often apparently people in that location were making bets about how long I would make it there um and the same thing Believe It or Not happened when I went to The Men's prison um like five years later or more um and and I found that so
05:30 - 06:00 odd uh but you know people make judgments based on the way you look sometimes right and they didn't know me and they're looking at me and this was I don't know more than a decade ago so I guess I looked a little younger um but as they made bets about whether I would make it apparently and and I learned this story much later but apparently after they watch watched me
06:00 - 06:30 walking confidently among all of these incarcerated people in both settings um and then they watched me in my skills and my experience apparently they were watching Pretty closely I guess they had money on this and um they decided after some time to believe in me and to support me and I think they lost their money um that same personal power though uh demonstrated to others that that I was I guess worthy of that position and
06:30 - 07:00 that they could then um invest in me a little bit and trust me and and understand me and um and that same strategy I guess the the demonstration of ability and competency um has helped me move up to to higher positions including this one of superintendent but in addition to that kind of power um I also create relationships with colleagues
07:00 - 07:30 subordinates and Leadership um so those above me those below me those on my sides um and it's absolutely critical in this particular position because as I told you I manage education in for uh 54 institutions but I have absolutely no power in those institutions so no like positional power if you will so the the way that I can get things done and thankfully I've been
07:30 - 08:00 quite successful at it is to actually create relationships with the wardens and the people that work in these institutions um and to let them see the competency um but also you know when you can talk with someone and find some kind of Common Ground um use humor I love to use humor it may be totally um terrible humor but I use humor all the time um and to find some kind of common thing to
08:00 - 08:30 discuss besides just me telling them what they need to do um so that they then understand that that I understand their positions and their challenges you know I think a lot of people go in and they say you must do blah blah blah blah blah whatever that is um but I think there's so much more to be gained from both sides when I listen to them and then they know that I'm listening to them and so the direction that I give them uh then comes from my understanding in
08:30 - 09:00 what they're dealing with but also to try to meet the goals that we need to so I wanted to just give you a couple of and I promise I won't talk about a little bit more but just a few things I wanted to share I thought were really important um so I thought of some specific approaches that I use that have been really really beneficial for me over the years one is to let people know that you care and sometimes people are afraid of that because they think it makes them weak
09:00 - 09:30 um I actually think it's the opposite you know when we uh let people know that we care we learn about their families we ask about their children call them after surgery show up for the difficult moments like a a funeral or something like that um when you care about them and they know that they will go to the ends of the Earth for you um very often I won't say always but very often and it changes the relationship from that um I'm telling you what to do to hey I
09:30 - 10:00 really believe in you and I understand you and I care about you and and this is how I really believe that we should move forward in the very best way um number two is get to know your people um that may sound the same as caring but it it's a little different in that you've got to know your team's strengths you've got to know their weaknesses um and help them use their strengths to further um the mission and to help them grow in the areas of weakness and a funny story here so uh I
10:00 - 10:30 was a principal in the middle school I had about 95 staff at that time working for me and I had this one teacher who he was the best teacher he was such a great teacher everybody loved him but he could not turn in a form on time to save his life and I had two assistant principles at the time and they so so I learned I knew him I knew that his strength was teaching I knew that he was phenomenal that um and working with the families
10:30 - 11:00 and and doing all the things right that that good teachers do but he could not turn in a form he couldn't turn in a report he couldn't do paperwork on time he could do it but he couldn't do it on time and so what I learned was if I'm doing my rounds and I walk by walk to his room and I say hey I need your report he goes oh I have it right here and he would hand it to me to me that was not a big deal my assistant principles thought that he should be fired because he you know couldn't turn
11:00 - 11:30 in a form on time I chose to see his strengths um that to me were much much more important uh to do the right thing for his students than to turn in a form for me you know or a report and so I chose to um just treat him a little different it's kind of like a a student who has an IEP or a person who has an accommodation you know uh and so that was my choice it may not be everybody's choice but it's just one way that um an
11:30 - 12:00 example I could show of knowing your people and knowing what what they're good at and what they're not and and choosing whether that it's worth it um to invest in them a little more and then the third one is just to be kind even in the difficult times um weirdly I have actually had a person who I was actually terminating their employment because things were not very good and that's the worst part of a Leader's job by the way the absolute worst and if you find that you enjoy it
12:00 - 12:30 that's a problem but um but I was terminating this person and when I finished the person said thank you I don't think it was thank you for firing me I think it was F thank you for being kind and not coming at that person you know there are ways to deliver really bad news that are not mean and um so so I find that there's there's not a
12:30 - 13:00 need for mean there's a need for firm sometimes and direct but um I I choose kindness so uh as a result of all of that um I feel like I've been pretty successful in my roles uh and gaining Confidence from stakeholders from uh getting their cooperation and making these really great strides in the work that I'm doing so just to kind of close on that um in my my opinion people don't
13:00 - 13:30 really respect positional power um and if they do it's because they have to when you come at them when you tell them they have to do something because you're in charge that is that is a way I think to really lose respect actually um you're going to lose personal respect they might do what you say but they're going to talk about you forever and they're going to talk about you by the way anyway no matter what you do you can't make everybody happy they're going to talk about you so just know that um
13:30 - 14:00 but it would not be for good reasons um so specifically I think the younger generation and some of you may be some of some very young people I don't know but a lot of times I think that the the newer Generations um really need to know that you know what you're doing as a leader that you care about them and that you understand them and um again in my experience people will go to the ends of the Earth and do things outside of their role even um when they know that you you care
14:00 - 14:30 about them and and you're there for them so I'll stop there uh and open the floor for questions comments discussion anything I'm already writing down notes I love your phrase firm fair and consistent that is such a good takeaway so thank you for sharing that so students I was going to open the floor to you but I'm going to ask a question first because you you struck a chord with me um how do you when we're dealing with conflict and challenges um one of the struggles that
14:30 - 15:00 I've seen and I love the idea of being kind and firm and kind or can go hand inand but how do you remain kind when you're going through stuff yourself whether that's outside stuff whether the person you're with isn't kind how do you remain kind face of storms um you know I think everybody finds their own way to handle things but for me um
15:00 - 15:30 so okay another story and I'm sorry but I I have a lot of them um so as a principal and one of the reasons I left public school and I if you decide to do that kudos to you go for it but uh and I loved it every day but when I was the principal in public school I had people sitting outside of my office every morning when I walked in waiting to cuss me out to tell me why their child would never do whatever it was that their child was probably on video doing um but then it wasn't even their child
15:30 - 16:00 and so I actually found myself um and and like I said you know this is just a personal answer I think everybody kind of has to find their own way but I think you find a a place of Peace you have to find a place of Peace in yourself and go there for me I have actually had someone saying horribly ugly things to me while I am totally praying in my head and not listening to a word they said um
16:00 - 16:30 but that was me you know I think it's a it's finding your own place of peace and knowing that you don't have to stoop to their level um in order to get the point across um and you don't have to argue with them you know I find actually that you lose more when you do when I when I have argued with them and I'm not going to say that I've never done that I have um but also in times when I am
16:30 - 17:00 struggling or when the leader is struggling there have been some really difficult moments actually um for me and and I have to know when the moment is like how far can I go and still be a decent human and a good leader um at what point and there have been points where I had to say okay I am I am no longer effective at this moment and I need to step away and everybody else just has to wait
17:00 - 17:30 because because I'm not okay and I think you have to know when that moment is you have to figure out where your line is um strain is going to be often as a as a leader but what's what's your Breakin point and I don't mean breaking like like um break down you know I mean like at what point can you no longer be an objective um positive kind person even in the face
17:30 - 18:00 of struggle thank you very much uh students do any of you have any questions before I I take some of the questions that were submitted um you guys get first dib since you're on the call if you have a question please unmute and speak up oh my hello hi Jasmine floor is yours hi Jasmine first of all I I want to say I appreciate you for everything
18:00 - 18:30 that you've done because I've worked in correction for nine years and with all male adults and I never worked with juveniles because I didn't think I had the correct temperament so kudos to you thank you thank you for your service too thank you um I do want to ask you though um with navigating a situation when you said as a leader you know like the self-awareness um what situations you can handle how would you delegate that
18:30 - 19:00 to another member of your team if you were unable to handle the situation in that moment um so that's a very good question actually and I think it depends on what your job is like what is it that you're leading if you're leading in a prison like let's say you're the OIC the officer in charge or you're the lieutenant and you're really in charge and like you can't step away
19:00 - 19:30 um then it becomes quite important that you have built a team uh who can handle things you know and part of I think being a good leader is training the next people who are coming behind you and those who are working with you um creating a really good solid uh mission mission oriented team so that you all know what the goals are you know what the standards are um and then when you've done that you have to
19:30 - 20:00 have the confidence in the people that you've trained and that you work with in order to do that um that's a key thing because you're right there are times when there's no one around that you can delegate to but you're not okay um and in those times there's probably been a time or two that I didn't step away and I probably should have and and I should say this too that no one is perfect ever so you know I have done things that I would not advise you to do
20:00 - 20:30 uh and you will do things that you would not advise other people to do something will happen the key to that to me is reflection and figuring out like every day on the drive home or at some point I think about what what could I have done better today and I think that's that's a good practice as a human um no matter what your role is um so I don't know I hope I answered your question okay but that's a hard one yeah yes you did you did I like the part as far as like
20:30 - 21:00 showing yourself Grace and reflection at the same time so I appreciate that yeah I think that's excellent advice um I don't know if anyone else struggles with this but making the time to reflect and I love your suggestion to D you know on your drive home taking that time um so that's a great tip um Melvin I think I saw your mic uh turn on please the floor is yours uh yes hi good evening everyone uh uh drer thank you for sharing with us and taking the uh the time and
21:00 - 21:30 opportunity to give us a little bit of insight um I am actually a current um DOD uh special education uh Aid uh right now um I hear a lot of the things that you were saying with like you know the positions and everything um I thought the military was competitive as far as everybody wanting to pick up rank everybody wed to do the special Village everybody want to do when I um when I see a
21:30 - 22:00 day-to-day um competition in the download not openly but in the download but somewhat open of teachers wanting to be the bachelor's degree the spe um the special education specialist the doctor's degree and everything like that I see that it's very competitive and very like wanting to um hold these titles because for some reason it seems like it holds a lot a lot of weight um my question is what do you value the
22:00 - 22:30 most from your career and the path that you took to get there and is there anything that you would change what would I what do I value most in my career you know the thing that I always wanted to do thank you for your question Melvin um I hope I hit all points if I don't you can remind me um the thing that I value the most and the thing that I wanted to that I want want to do every day of my life is at some
22:30 - 23:00 point at the end of all of this I want to have made a difference in the world to someone and I don't know if you know the story of the starfish um if you don't check it out but um it is it's kind of my motto I'll just tell you the real quick story if you don't do you all know that do you know the story of the starfish okay no I want to hear okay okay okay um so this this kid is walking on the beach and there
23:00 - 23:30 are like hundreds thousands of starfish on the beach they've washed up on the beach and this kid's walking and he's picking them up and he's throwing them back and he's picking them up and he's throwing them back and this person there are different vers versions of it but um this person walks out and he says he says why what are you doing and he says well I'm throwing these starfish back in the ocean and he said why why there are so many you can't possibly save them all and the kid bends down quietly and picks up one morning he it back in the ocean and he said but I made a difference to
23:30 - 24:00 that one and so that's that's my story like if I can make a difference to one just one person then I have my life is then worth it right and my career is then worth it so um that's what I value the most would I change anything I don't think so I don't think I would because everything that I have done has gotten me to this point and I
24:00 - 24:30 have made mistakes like everyone will um but I've learned from those and I try to do better the next day and I try to and and I try to learn from that you know as in a in a longterm way um and I might have forgotten another part of your question what was the other part you pretty much cover them and how you would um if you would change anything along the path because sometimes you hear a lot of uh I hear a lot of teachers sometimes that they would say the one thing I would do would
24:30 - 25:00 be you know continue on with my doctor's degree and not wait so late in life to do it um or my master's degree or change from the elementary to more of a middle school setting or a high school setting um so a lot of times I hear that and then I see a lot of them go back and then you know just like us uh we're already working adults with families some of us with kids already in college and then it's very difficult to go back in school but setting that example has
25:00 - 25:30 been great thank you yeah absolutely and I'll just add to that thank you for that um I get that like I get all of that uh I probably would not change anything but I will tell you this that um so my my CH I have two children they are 26 and 21 um and my 21y old is on his fourth year third year in the military he just resigned and um so when he decided he was going to the the military I said to my husband I did not have my doctorate
25:30 - 26:00 at the time and I said to my husband I said I think I'm going to go back to school and he said well it's about time you've been talking about it for 20 years so it's never too late I guess is the moral of the story but I don't I you know I I made a conscious choice for myself to to focus on my kids while they were growing up um as much as you can as a principle in a public school uh and in in prisons but um it was a decision I made every everybody might not make that one but it was worth it to me and I
26:00 - 26:30 wouldn't change it other questions can comments onee I'm sorry I'm gleaning right now so no please do no sores bring on the questions yeah so I was gonna say by just like watching you and like listening to you at this point um everything you say it it sounds very genuine and we talk about um authentic leadership and at times
26:30 - 27:00 like sometimes with like you said like the staff were betting on you how long you would last do you ever think that you got into a role where you tried to um like mimic behavior of somebody who you felt was like strong so you can get by because you seem like very approachable and very relatable and genuine and I I just know like when I started in Corrections and stuff I um
27:00 - 27:30 being a female too like I had to play like kind of like tough but then I loosened up a lot because I was like that's not really me you know and so I was wondering if you ever experienced that or if you had a mentor or somebody who advised you you know that's that's funny that you ask and thank you for your kind words I do think being genuine is very important you know being true to yourself um so yes I had a a great mentor in my opinion my father was my principal from kindergarten to 8th grade
27:30 - 28:00 um and so I spent my life in a school which is why I said I'd never be a teacher well never say never right but um you know I I was a kid watching all that and he he passed away when I was just a young adult but I learned so much from watching him you know I couldn't ride the bus I had to stay after school and I had to watch him and I I mean I didn't need to watch him but uh that's what you do when you're around right um
28:00 - 28:30 and I watched him be genuine and I watched him care about the underdog and I watched him um treat everyone like decent humans um with value and I would say that I probably learned all of that from him uh and other people that I've been around but did I ever feel like I had to be somebody I wasn't yes you know when
28:30 - 29:00 when again going back to those disciplinary moments with staff um that is not who I want to be I do not want I want to be the person who builds people up and and helps people and and helps them overcome challenges um I do not want to be the person who fires people unfortunately it comes along with leadership sometimes and uh I kind of have to psych my I've had to psych myself up I mean still after 28 years it's an atrocious thing to have to do um
29:00 - 29:30 and I have to tell myself that I doing what is right for the students and that's what I have to keep in mind so I think you have to think about who it is that you're serving in whatever leadership role and and I'm a big fan of servant leadership um I try not to ask my staff to do anything that I haven't done or that I'm not willing to do um but in general I do try to be very genuine and I think I've learned that it's okay to be that um most of the
29:30 - 30:00 time excellent try making sure nobody's um mic is coming off did I hear somebody okay I ignored that um so we talked a little bit about how you've dealt with your challenges um the uncomfortableness of having to let people go um have you ever had the experience where where you've either had a direct peer or a supervisor that
30:00 - 30:30 you've seen in your opinion misusing power um I we refer to it in in several circles that I work in as managing up have you ever had to deal with someone in a managing up situation where you felt they were abusing their power yes uh not very often thankfully um but there was one person when I was in Juvenile Justice uh it was it was actually a professional peer at the time
30:30 - 31:00 um so I was managing the education and this person was managing the actual institution and we were we were equal in that in those roles at the time but then shortly thereafter she became my supervisor but before that moment so so she made a point of yelling at people in front of people like yelling at employees regularly in front of people really cutting people down really taking them you know out at the knees kind of thing um and she did that to me one
31:00 - 31:30 time and I I couldn't that's not how I believe leaders should be and I went to her and we were thankfully peers at the time I don't know what I would have done if she was my supervisor I'd like to think I'd have done the same thing but I went to her very nicely and I just said you know I am never GNA speak to you disrespectfully and I am always going to treat you with respect and I ask that you do the same and I felt really uncomfortable today
31:30 - 32:00 when you yelled at me in front of my staff and do you know that she never did it again even when she was my supervisor she still did it to other people sadly but she did not do it to me which means to me it was a conscious Choice it was a conscious Choice um so I think you know sometimes there are moments and I think I feel like I took a big risk like I really had to say myself up because I don't I didn't that's not
32:00 - 32:30 what I wanted to do but I felt like I had to do it because that was not okay um how did you to do that how did you psych yourself up I don't know the answer to that except except that I just could not in my in in my heart and in my soul I could not accept that and I had to say it I had to say it and somebody said Beauty and conflict and thank you for that um I
32:30 - 33:00 don't know how beautiful it was at the moment but I'm I'm proud of myself even today and that was a long time ago but you know I think it was worth it um and I hope it made a difference for somebody else along the way what challenges do you see most often when you're dealing with power dynamics and how do you deal with those um challenges you know I think a little bit of the about in the concept of Justice involved education and that kind of stuff there's a lot of different structural you know power dynamics at
33:00 - 33:30 play how do you navigate that and how do you help other people navigate that that's a good question um I actually have a couple of people I've had a recent inci incident it wasn't thankfully anything huge but people really like to fight about power like to see who's more important um who's doing the most who's the better one um I choose not to engage in that when when
33:30 - 34:00 it has to do with me you know if somebody challenges me on power I don't feel the need to show my power um I think it comes out in what I do and how I behave and um and in the end sometimes things just require my my signature so there's power in that without me saying a word um but what I like to do is find Common Ground um I
34:00 - 34:30 like to to say that you know we're all when I have to address it and I've had to address it many many times um I like to to come from common ground and just say hey we're all on the same team we all have the same goal what you want is for your depending on who it is your uh population to behave appropriately what you also want is your people to um handle things with um intelligence and
34:30 - 35:00 be able to make good decisions well education helps you do that um or uh you know we all want to educate our students we have a saying on our team one team one Mission um and whenever there is conflict we go back to one team one Mission and we always go back to that route because when you have the same goal what's the point in fighting over power there there's not and so that's what I try to get people to see um and I also help them understand that
35:00 - 35:30 when especially my team or when you're in a leadership position if you get into that kind of power Dynamic people um lose respect for that I actually had some of their subordinates come and say you know I can tell that they're fighting over power they're arguing in a meeting where they're supposed to be leading us and that is not okay that is just not okay so um we go back to one Team One mission and and I try to do that no matter who I'm working with you just
35:30 - 36:00 made a comment that made me think about the fact that our people are always watching they're they're observing how we're leveraging power dynamics and that we don't always think about the fact that they're I'm GNA use the phrase judging that has a harsh term but it do set a tone that absolutely does yeah always they're always watching and you don't know who's watching you or when and not only are they watching you but they're going to talk about you and tell everybody else how you're behaving um and you have to learn to be okay with
36:00 - 36:30 that and it can be good and bad like you know you can you can model great behavior um that that helps people um down the road absolutely any questions from the students before I go on to a couple other that I have do um I want to ask Dr will um how do you view power and influence do you view them the same do you view them separately do do they work together um
36:30 - 37:00 depending who the the leader is and their leadership style um how do you view it well I started this by saying I really don't like the word power um because I I I want people to do the right thing because it's the right thing and I expect that from my team um the my goal would be to influence people to help people to support people
37:00 - 37:30 um if power if that's viewed as power then that's somebody else's perspective or perception I honestly when I when um Nicole asked me to do this I struggled a little bit because I don't like to think of myself even as having power if I think about the role I actually probably have a lot of it um but that's not how I choose to behave and operate I don't
37:30 - 38:00 choose to use power I choose to more operate um with relationships and influence and competency and intelligence so I would say that I don't I guess view them the same but sometimes you now I will say sometimes you have to use power and you have to be willing to do that um but it's not my go-to but if the moment comes then then you have to pull that out of your hat I'll tell you I will tell you this too um I was I was the
38:00 - 38:30 principal in uh again the middle school which I loved by the way and my ass my Administrative Assistant her her desk was right outside of my office and she said to me one day she said how do you say the things that you say in your office and then walk out of your office and smile at people and say hello I said it's kind of I guess compartmentalizing um you know you can't
38:30 - 39:00 you have to learn how to also by the way not take everything personally and that's a hard thing to learn for some people but it's very important I was just joking with a fellow service member that I'm glad some of the things I've said haven't weren't recorded when when I said them because you got to blow off steam sometimes I think that's appropriate excellent uh question about how men and women
39:00 - 39:30 approach some of these challenges differently have you experienced that men and women approach Dynamics such as conflict and and power differently I would say usually yes usually they do approach it differently um unfortunately and I hope this is changing but I have seen along the way um less now maybe than in the past um but but I'm at a higher level of of
39:30 - 40:00 leadership at this point but um I think people often feel that women in particular often feel that they have to have to use power they have to be the boss um and when that happens that you you've heard the saying I'm sure you've all heard it that women can never work a bunch of women can't ever work together and it's because they wanted figure out who's B somebody's being bossy and somebody else is being bossy and
40:00 - 40:30 somebody else is in charge and it's just this crazy power Dynamic um I think sometimes sometimes that's true of various ethnic ethnicities as well you know I think that there are various characteristics of humans um in which people approach leadership differently in power dynamics but um I have made a point in my life to try not to be that way uh and and I think that the higher up in leadership you go in my experience um
40:30 - 41:00 teachers in a school yeah I I think the higher up you go and in my experience the less you see that um and I think sometimes too men feel a little more entitled to it and they feel like they can be a little more laidback because they they have earned that I guess but sometimes women have to work twice as hard to get to that point um not always and I I'd
41:00 - 41:30 like to think the world is changing and and in my experience it has um and absolutely melbin uh growth mindset helps to change views and um you know I think too that that people who are good leaders and who are into influence and relation relationships and and don't cater to that bossy um Ness um I I think those people have influence over other leaders as well and
41:30 - 42:00 they can they can sometimes see how to navigate things that they maybe didn't understand prior to um I'd like to think we help each other so this is and my dog sorry my dog decided that the neighbor walking by is completely unacceptable at this moment um this deals with a a little less of of power and more communication so when you're dealing with an organization that has tiered levels of management you know
42:00 - 42:30 different levels of Team how do you how would you help your lower level management for lack of a better term make sure that they're including their teams um so that their members feel valued like their input is heard even when their input can't always be acted upon where they might not see that change does that make sense it does um I think I think there are a couple ways to approach that um if we're talking about from from like my
42:30 - 43:00 level a a a teacher would be I guess if you were thinking about levels would probably be about I don't know five levels down if you if you want to think of it that way I try not to do that but um and and you think about correctional officers too they often feel like they're not listened to I think that when leaders um at my level deputy secretary secretaries high level leaders I think we have to be willing to
43:00 - 43:30 get down I said earlier I don't ask my team I try not to ask my team to do anything I'm not willing to do or that I haven't already done and I think it's important that we get down and do those things and show people that we're willing to still do the work um I also think it's important to ask people like as I as I go visit I've visited every institution and I'm on around I don't know three I guess at this point um of visiting every institution and and when
43:30 - 44:00 I do that I speak to everyone I speak to the to the incarcerated people I speak to the office staff I speak to the warden I speak to the you know just everyone and try to make them feel valued in that way um and ask how they think things are going what can we do to do things better but I also think it's really important for the direct manager to show value to to their the people who report to them um and I think the way
44:00 - 44:30 people feel is often a direct result of how their direct manager treats them so if they can feel that their direct manager is um valuing their opinion and listening to them um and makes them feel valuable then often the person feels better than they would otherwise um and certainly the direct manager should also share information up as much as
44:30 - 45:00 possible and sometimes that doesn't happen either um it's a it's a struggle but I know our secretary makes a point to get in there with um with the officers he visits prisons every week he goes to visit um everyone and he walks around and he remembers names I'm terrible at names but he remembers names um and you know I think it's just important that we we talk to people and not sit in our office
45:00 - 45:30 on this high horse and make all the decisions without actually getting input do you think leadership or what makes good leadership has changed over the course of your career um you know is it different today than it was let's say 10 years ago um or on the flip side do you think there's always principles that that remain consistent and how do you know when you need to change leadership that's a good question it kind of goes
45:30 - 46:00 back to knowing your staff um but and your staff changes right because people leave and people come in but do I think things have changed I think that there are principles that still still hold true and and I think the one you know using relation creating relationships with people not inappropriately by the way I need I work in prison I got to say that um um creating relationships and and
46:00 - 46:30 valuing people and getting to know them and letting them know that you care I don't think those things ever go out of style now if you talk to people who are who are um there there are whole classes in how the Millennials are these days right or gen Z or whatever but and and maybe there's some truth to that and I I kind of alluded to that earlier but I think there are still pieces that that that that matter to everyone um and and those are the things I think I talked
46:30 - 47:00 about thank you any uh Melvin I see your your speaker go ahead I had one um because I know it has um with our with our class that we're currently taking challenges uh conflict and courage um all leaders everybody is a leader in some type of way form whatever it is um we have to make decisions we have to make easy decisions and everything and
47:00 - 47:30 even we have to self-analyze ourselves a lot of time and sometimes we are very prideful leaders um it's a tough and a hard p uh pill to where we have to step back and readjust and do all that um during this week we had to um we didn't have to but we watched a video on uh on a gentleman by Mr thims uh Tims and it had to do about you know being that leader
47:30 - 48:00 of not placing the blame on people uh looking looking yourself in the mirror and also um engineering a solution can you uh share with us a opportunity where you had to do that yourself and how difficult was it for you to kind of like swallow that Pride as the leader and you know go through those three steps of not really placing the blame on anybody taking your fair share of it looking
48:00 - 48:30 yourself in the mirror to readjust and reset and then um engineering a solution if you had to do it on your own or did you do it collectively shared with everybody else as a leader great question um I think there's Great Value in finding the courage to do the things that you just talked about if you if you watch uh effective coaches for sports um good ones will say that loss was my
48:30 - 49:00 fault that loss was my fault [Music] um even though their players obviously were the performers but they'll say they they'll say it's their fault um as a leader I think you know there were there what's an example there um okay so as a principal again back in the day um I you know growth is everything in a school these days and so our school it
49:00 - 49:30 was I think my first year maybe or maybe second um and we did not make growth and that is just unacceptable in the world but also to me and our teachers were terribly disappointed um and I took the ownership of that um the next year I came in with some different um strategies but I took these strategies and research-based uh strategies to the team and I said
49:30 - 50:00 okay here's what I think but I want to know what you think um you know as as the leader honestly everything falls on your head and and it doesn't matter whether it's your fault or not um in the end it is your fault and uh and sometimes we have to take the fall for things that maybe we weren't even directly involved in but I also think there's value in like the
50:00 - 50:30 small things so there was a day not all that long ago I mean maybe a month or two ago um and I don't remember what was happening before but but I remember that a te that a staff member walked in and and I kind of I answered whatever question it was but I was kind of snippy about it you know I was a little I snapped a little bit um and I wasn't as kind as I prefer to be uh or as I tell you to be and um I realized that at the moment and so
50:30 - 51:00 I took just a minute for myself and then I walked down to that person's office and I said you know what I need to tell you that I'm really sorry I shouldn't have I shouldn't have snapped at you um you didn't do anything wrong and I'm sorry and that person said oh my gosh like thank you um and I think they were a little shocked um that I did that but I think it it's again as I said earlier we're all human and I think that when they see that in us the humanness the
51:00 - 51:30 humanity in us um you know I think that there's value in that and I think that may even just elevate your power unless it's too much I mean you know you can be like crying and complaining and and things like that that's not what I mean what I mean is or saying I'm sorry for like everything but you have to choose you choose your moments but you're right pride is is a is is a terrible thing and um but it can get the
51:30 - 52:00 best of us especially when things go really really well and um so I try to always like keep my head at a level um and also give credit to my team because my team and I tell them all the time I tell them my team makes me look good um and then they'll say something you know nice to me but but I mean that they make me look good I my a leader and and this is something I have lived by um a
52:00 - 52:30 leader is only as good as those people around them those that you're leading you have to they either have to be really good when they come to you or you have to help them get really good and that's how you look good and so I try to remember that it's not really me it's really the people around me and all that that we do together so that's one way I I address that great question thank you melin thank you I think we have time for one
52:30 - 53:00 more if a student has a question if not I'm G to end on a question I ask everybody who teaches with me lectures with me whatever do you have a leadership or productivity or personal development book that you would recommend to someone if they asked yes and it is there are many there are so many there are so many but the one I find
53:00 - 53:30 myself recommending to uh leaders who are really busy who were doing all the things um is juggling elephants have you read juggling elephants I have yes I'm so glad you mentioned that one yep yeah I mean it's not a hard one you know it's not like really deep but it's so useful because you get so especially like in my current role it's it's just crazy how much is going
53:30 - 54:00 on um all good things don't get me wrong but there's there's the potential for me to run around with a chicken like a chicken with my head cut off but juggling elephants excellent everybody write that down that will be in the next version of lead 606 Dr Cox just not that I was gonna say who's the author of that jugglin elephant oh I don't remember that that's a test you're trying to test me aren't you
54:00 - 54:30 Jasmine um see if I can find it real quick I don't remember the name either but Google Google is our friend um I'll find it to music musig and Jones Laughlin yep just found and look there's a TED Talk by him so might sneak that into week eight y'all excellent well I personally could talk with you about leadership all night long
54:30 - 55:00 but I want to be respectful of your time um thank you very much uh Dr Wheeler this was a great conversation thank you to the students for joining us um did you have any final words you wanted to share you know thank you thank you for inviting me to this thank you um students for engaging with me thank you for the conversation I could I could also continue we could just keep talking um I I'm having a ball and I love that
55:00 - 55:30 you all are learning about leadership and teaching about leadership um such a worthy subject so thank you very much um for that I have very much enjoyed it and and you know I I will end on this somebody said to me one time um when you see leaders and you've you've been around leaders your entire life right I mean I don't know if you've thought about that but you've been around them and when you're you're around leaders you're going to learn things that you should emulate things that you
55:30 - 56:00 want to do that are like them but you can also learn things not to do so know the difference be able to watch the difference and and notice the difference um and decide this is something I don't ever want to be like or this is something I don't ever want to do there are other things that you'll say I really want to be like that but remember too that again Humanity right nobody's perfect and when you see things even in
56:00 - 56:30 the people that you really really respect you may see things that you don't want to copy that you don't want to do and just be able to recognize that um and know that that everybody's not perfect and you can learn things no matter what the situation very wise Council thank you thank you well everyone stay dry be safe the the next couple of days with the storms coming in um class I will see you in the discussion boards Dr Wheeler I'll
56:30 - 57:00 see you in one of our many uh tours and and interactions so thank you all very much I hope you have a wonderful evening and talk to you all soon thanks everybody night all thank you