Kahuku Wind Farm Project

ESRC Meeting-Nā Pua Makani Bat Habitat and Research Plans

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Summary

The ESRC meeting for Nā Pua Makani focused on issues related to bat habitat management and research plans. The meeting addressed concerns about the inconsistency of previous meeting minutes and the need for clear, accessible records for members to follow up on prior discussions. A significant portion of the meeting was dedicated to reviewing the tier-one mitigation plan and research plan for the Hawaiian Hoary Bat under the Pomoo management area. The dialogue centered on the effectiveness of mitigation strategies, predator control, and the distinctions between research and monitoring to assess habitat restoration outcomes. The discussion emphasized collaboration among various stakeholders and ensuring the mitigation leads to demonstrable benefits for the bat population.

Highlights

The importance of having previous meeting minutes ready to bolster discussion continuity was highlighted. 📌
The need for predator control as part of the bat's habitat restoration was discussed in-depth. 🦇
Issues around effective population size estimates for bats and the implications on future mitigation strategies. 📉
The making of an implementation plan post-approval was suggested for clear project execution. ✅
Effective habitat management was stressed to prevent further habitat degradation and support species recovery. 🌱

Key Takeaways

Collaboration is key in mitigation efforts for endangered species like the Hawaiian Hoary Bat. 🤝
Ensuring minutes are available from prior meetings is crucial for tracking progress and maintaining transparency. 📝
Research in mitigation is vital yet must be distinguished from monitoring efforts for clearer results. 🔍
Addressing inconsistencies early, such as minute unavailability, can help streamline processes. 🕐
Active communication and involvement from all parties improve project implementation and execution. 📢

Overview

The meeting started by tackling procedural issues like the availability of previous meeting minutes and their importance for continuity and accountability. Members expressed concern over proceeding without clear records and the difficulties this poses for consistent follow-ups on actions and recommendations.

A significant part of the meeting revolved around the tier-one bat mitigation and research plans. The complexities in correlating research outcomes with direct mitigation benefits were explored. Members stressed the importance of having meaningful and clear research goals that can guide future actions effectively.

The conversation on predator control highlighted the multifaceted approach needed to improve bat habitat. The discussion reiterated the importance of maintaining balance in ecosystem management and ensuring that all aspects such as food source enhancement and predator management are integrated into the mitigation plans.

Chapters

00:00 - 03:00: Introduction and Review of Previous Minutes The chapter titled 'Introduction and Review of Previous Minutes' discusses the issue of inconsistencies in the implementation actions suggested by a guidance document from the Hawaii corbat. It notes that if mitigation targets are unmet, the implementation actions require adjustments. Additionally, the transcript highlights a logistical issue: the minutes from the previous meeting are not ready, leading to the decision to skip item two of the current agenda.
03:00 - 06:40: Discussion on Need for Meeting Minutes and Recommendations The chapter discusses the importance of having meeting minutes ready and available for reference. The conversation highlights concerns about not having minutes prepared for voting, and emphasizes how minutes serve as a valuable reminder of past discussions and agreed expectations over the last year. Melissa raises concerns about the absence of minutes and is assured that efforts will be made to address this issue.
07:00 - 08:00: Introduction to Kahuku Wind Power Correction The chapter introduces a discussion on Kahuku Wind Power Correction, highlighting a meeting where participants reflect on previous recommendations. They express a desire to include past approved recommendations in the current presentation for reference and continuity. The chapter sets the stage for a presentation aimed at providing a clearer understanding of past discussions and decisions, ensuring participants are aligned with ongoing initiatives.
08:00 - 16:00: Discussion of Mitigation and Work Conducted The chapter titled 'Discussion of Mitigation and Work Conducted' involves a meeting where Danica Swenson, the deputy attorney general, is present. She is introduced and acknowledged by others in the Zoom meeting. Danica is tasked with advising on Sunshine Law Compliance and other legal questions, which seems to be the focus of her participation in this session with ESRC (presumably a committee or council dealing with specific regulations or concerns).
20:00 - 35:00: Napua Makani Mitigation & Research Plan Presentation The chapter titled 'Napua Makani Mitigation & Research Plan Presentation' includes a brief update on the presenter's availability during the meeting. She clarifies her schedule by informing the audience that she needs to leave at 10:30 for another commitment, reassuring that should an executive session be required, the HCP team can contact her via cell phone. She assures her prompt return to the meeting post her other commitment. The chapter seems to transition towards discussing the next agenda item following this announcement.
35:00 - 50:00: Research and Mitigation Plan Discussion In the chapter titled 'Research and Mitigation Plan Discussion', DOFA staff will correct the map product and table presented at the FY24 annual review for Kahuku windpower. The meeting involves ESRC members, and the staff will be sharing their screens for the presentation.
80:00 - 110:00: Public Comments and Voting Process In the annual review meeting held in March, a correction was made regarding the Kahuku wind farm's cumulative mitigation efforts. It was previously noted with incorrect acreage. The correct total is 176 acres that have been mitigated.
110:00 - 125:00: Restoration and Predator Control Discussion The chapter discusses restoration efforts and predator control, starting with an ITL covering 176 acres. A map update will be presented by Jesse reflecting this updated acreage. The chapter addresses the use of proxies for bat equivalents, with a historical cost of $50,000 per bat set before 2016.
125:00 - 128:00: Final Discussions and Adjournment The chapter titled 'Final Discussions and Adjournment' involves a detailed discussion using the 2015 bat guidance document to analyze land requirements per bat. The discussion includes reference to a map that quantitatively represents bat equivalences in different sizes, with a focus on land acquisition at Turtle Bay and Quaoa tier three. The session seems to revolve around land use planning for bat conservation, utilizing quantitative data for strategic decisions.

ESRC Meeting-Nā Pua Makani Bat Habitat and Research Plans Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 implemented if mitigation targets are not being reached by the proposed implementation actions as out of the Hawaii corbat uh guidance document So I just wanted to note that inconsistency on the submitt and uh and so um so I'm sorry can you repeat um you said the minutes are not available from the previous meeting Yeah the minutes are not uh not ready for so we're we're going to skip item two today
00:30 - 01:00 but we don't have the minutes uh ready for to vote on today Okay I'll just note that if those are the last time we talked about this um they're super helpful to have available because then we have a good reminder of what we talked about and a common understanding of of what happened a year ago and so what we would have expected to have taken place in the last year Um so I'm a little bit concerned about not having that available Okay Well we hear your concern Melissa and we'll do our best to have you know
01:00 - 01:30 minutes available for folks um in these meetings and um yeah so we have your comment in there Thank you Yeah Okay If you've got the recommendations from last year at least uh that we like approved and if those can be pulled up maybe if those are a part of the presentation you're already planning on giving or something it would just be super helpful so we have a reminder of what we what we discussed Yeah we do have that and that will be provided in the presentation for you guys Thanks Yeah I agree It's really
01:30 - 02:00 helpful to have that to refer to Jason I just want to point out that Danica's in the Zoom if you didn't notice Deputy AG So it's good to have you here Thank you Danica Thank you Danica if you want to just introduce yourself real quick that would be great Hi everyone I'm Danica Swenson I'm the deputy attorney general that is assigned to advise ESRC today on Sunshine Law Compliance things and other questions
02:00 - 02:30 about your duties privileges responsibilities I did want to let you guys know I do have to leave at 10:30 to go to another meeting but if you do need to go into executive session the HCP team has my cell phone number and so they'll give me a call Um so there's just going to be a little bit of a delay but I'll still come back for you Yeah Thank you Thank you Danica Um so we can move on to item
02:30 - 03:00 three Um and this is uh DOFA staff will provide a correction to the map product and table presented at the FY24 annual review for Kahuku windpower Good morning ESRC members I'll be sharing the screen now
03:00 - 03:30 Aloha all Um so in our annual review meeting in March um we just wanted to make a correction to something that was noted then um regarding Kahuku wind farm and their cumulative mitigation Um so we um incorrectly stated a lower acreage that has been mitigated for So um this 176 acres is the correct total um
03:30 - 04:00 mitigation um from the start of the ITL So it's 176 acres Um so my apologies for that Um Jesse's going to present his updated map to reflect this acreage Okay Um I have the map here reminding ESRC members that uh we use proxies for bat equivalents So um prior 2016 and prior we're using a $50,000 per bat
04:00 - 04:30 proxy After that we're using about 20 acres per bat proxy This is using the 2015 bat guidance document Um if we look at the map we've broken it down for you there Um this is a quantitative map Um the little bat is equal to one bat Mediumsized bat is five bats Large bat is 10 bats Starting up by Turtle Bay Looking at Quaoa tier three land acquisition Um this is a land acquisition So this would
04:30 - 05:00 be a dollar equivalent So we're looking at um roughly seven bats there Moving over to Kiloa tier one mitigation site It's roughly 10 bats They're using an acreage proxy Though the um Ukoa pond where they do their bat mitigation is only 40 acres Um they do have a caveat in there that one acre of wetland is roughly equivalent to 5 acres of forest Um so
05:00 - 05:30 when you do the math uh you get about uh 200 acres So that equals roughly uh 10 bats at the 20 acre proxy Moving down to Kahuku Uh those are the small yellow polygons um within the Helimmano area right here Those two polygons uh Kahuku confirmed with us that this polygon right here they are in fact doing work Um this was demonstrated
05:30 - 06:00 through their annual reviews Um there was a bit of miscommunication uh between the lency and us So last time you folks saw this figure uh in addition to some updates with the symbology it only showed the polygon right here So we're just um acknowledging that they are doing work over here Uh and they're doing work over here This is roughly 176 acres Um so it's about nine
06:00 - 06:30 bats Moving over to Quaoa um tier 4 land acquisition This is for the uh southern Helimano area Holy Milo Recreation Area Um these folks have about 55 bats This is again a dollar proxy for that land acquisition And finally moving down to what we will be talking about today the Nua Makani proposed mitigation plan Um Troy is going to go into detail about these um ovals that you see on the screen Um it's a little different than
06:30 - 07:00 uh looking at some of the other polygons that we have up there Um Napole Makani is seeking mitigation for 34 bats um through their actions in the Po Management Area Uh these folks are using a dollar proxy of 50,000 per bat Great Thank you Jesse Um I just also wanted to note Michelle Bogardis She just she's here now in the meeting Michelle if you can just introduce yourself real quick before we move on Of
07:00 - 07:30 course Sorry for my delay everyone Um I'm Michelle Bertis I'm the deputy field supervisor for the Pacific Islands Fish and Wildlife Office representing uh Fish and Wildlife Service on ESRC Thanks Jason Thank you Michelle Um so with that presentation we just wanted to uh see if uh if any members of the public would like to make uh comments uh via email please do so now In the meantime uh if we have any comments from the SRC we can
07:30 - 08:00 um go forth with that Okay Um looking on Zoom to see if we have any comments from Zoom and our HCP email which there are none None on Zoom Okay we don't need to vote on
08:00 - 08:30 this So um thank you everyone for hearing this part of the presentation We're going to move on to item four So next on the agenda DOA staff will give a short presentation Um this is the we're going to be voting on the Naputa Makani Power Partners LLC Hawaiian Hory Bat Tier One Mitigation Habitat Management Plan for the Foam Mo
08:30 - 09:00 Management Area and the Hawaii Bat Tier One Mitigation Research Plan And I will leave that up to Jesse Take it away folks All right Uh good morning Um Jesse Adams here uh DOA lead for the um Napoleakani project Today we are going to be reviewing these folks bat habitat management and research plans These are
09:00 - 09:30 for mitigation for tier one So um just to give you guys an idea of what's going on currently with this project um to keep the ESRC members informed uh DOA HCP staff along with US Fish and Wildlife staff conducted a site visit on April 2nd to the wind farm Um we looked at a variety of things
09:30 - 10:00 including the bat deterrence they have installed Um we examined their uh searcher area Um we also looked at their met tower U met with staff and toured the site Um it's really great to see what those folks are doing out there and for us to um be able to see uh what the topography is like and um ask questions about dogs see the relationship of where those uh windmills are in relationship to um tenant farmers that are on that parcel as well Uh today we are reviewing the bat
10:00 - 10:30 habitat management and research plans And then next week on the 17th we will be reviewing their bat deterrent research plan Uh this was stipulated in their ITL special condition 8 Um they have to provide uh monies for um doing a research plan Uh they have four windmills that have deterrence on them Um so they have a a research plan to look at the effectiveness of that Uh also we are working on drafts of a major
10:30 - 11:00 amendment for UAU since they have the take of two uahu and a reduction in take for n uh at the annual review meeting that we had earlier this year ESRC had set a deadline of um quarter 1 fiscal year 2026 to have drafts of these plans um ready for review Okay Uh a brief recap of Napole Makani's
11:00 - 11:30 ITL and BAT take to date Uh the ITL was originally issued on April 30th 2019 and is valid through April 30th 2040 Currently they are almost six years or roughly 29% through their permit term To date they have a total of four observed bat take one female one male two unknown One of these two unknown occurred in Q3 FY2025
11:30 - 12:00 If we look at the table at the bottom of the slide this might be familiar Um can I I I can't see the slides So I don't know if everybody else is in that situation but I was just about to ask is there a slide deck associated with this Because I can see slides Huh how strange Yeah I'm seeing slides as well If you click on the meeting there's a little icon at the top that's got a bunch of people that sometimes obscures slide
12:00 - 12:30 view Check out where you're at on that icon and to the right of it should be DOA HCP screen I did the same thing yesterday Click on DOAHCP screen and see if that helps And that's at the view right Uh no it should just be on the top if you see Zoom workplace There it is Okay got it Thanks Thank you folks Uh so reviewing the table at the
12:30 - 13:00 bottom of the slide um this came from the uh FY24 um annual review meeting Um through Q2 of FY25 they have a cumulative adjusted take estimate of nine bats Um they're in tier one Their ITL cumulative limit is 51 bats in two tiers Uh their first tier is 34
13:00 - 13:30 bats to provide um a brief review of the state of the species Um we do not have an exact population count for Opa across the Pyina Um we only have uh effective um sorry we only have estimates of contemporary effective population size I've highlighted the contemporary effective population size for Oahu of 21 on the table This table comes from Kari
13:30 - 14:00 at all USGS 2023 Could I ask a question about this Yes Um this is mostly for maybe Melissa or anybody else who knows more about uh effective population size than I do but um trying just trying to think of how to actually for the HCP maybe you know when
14:00 - 14:30 the bats get turn the bats get turned into Bishop Museum right Yes Is there any chance that they're analyzed to understand the take impact on the effective population size Are we there way to analyze the effective population of the bats taken or extrapolate as to what percentage of the effective population they represent Maybe that's a malicious question Yeah Kiko I'll just state that that would be quite an involved study Um
14:30 - 15:00 it's not like an easy thing to just it's not like sexing them right which is a pretty straightforward um process Uh if you're going to do effective population size you you have to essentially do the same steps you would do for a full genetic study of the population And so um it's not and and for example if things are run in different batches for sequencing it can influence you know some downstream processes and stuff like that So it it involves kind of Okay understood Uh it's
15:00 - 15:30 quite involved Um so my question for HCP staff is is the genetic material of all the taken bats saved so that eventually one day USGS had funding again they could do such a thing Uh yes Kavika um they do keep a stock solution for the DNA on site at Bishop Museum Okay awesome And then can you just so effective population of 21 on Aahu Can you remind me I know it's just on the last slide but what is the Oahu take totals
15:30 - 16:00 uh they have taken um a cumulative estimated take of nine bats They have four observed to date and they're have two two tiers um a total of 51 bats The first tier is 34 bats and they're in tier one Okay Um so that's the that I wasn't quite asking the applicant question I was asking uh but thank you That's important Um uh can you what is the total
16:00 - 16:30 Oahu of bats for the cumulative I know it's just on the last slide but you remind us please if you want to go back to the previous so 21 is the effective population size and then total Oahu take is 34 is that right no that's not clarify this is from uh could A um clarifying question You're asking for all the wind projects on Oahu Yes All
16:30 - 17:00 cumulative take of OP on Oahu Please remind us what that number was I thought it was in a previous slide I didn't keep it in my head though It it was in our annual review slides Kavika pulled it up again Um 126 is the estimated cumulative take And Kavika just an important piece of your reasoning here effective population size all the literature consistently shows is about 10% of estimated total population So um unless
17:00 - 17:30 it was just like super extremely inbred and then it could be higher than that but um generally speaking like an effective population size of 21 means there's like about 200 bats or something like that Yeah about 200 bats and there's been how many taken again 100 126 and there's permitted take of 354 per the current ITLS
17:30 - 18:00 Yeah So I just want ESRC members to let those numbers soak in I think uh it sounds like we've permitted uh enough take that would cause effective population extinction on a wall Does anybody else see it differently Well I don't know if I see it Here's the challenge This isn't all this isn't take all at one time right
18:00 - 18:30 This is over 30 years I think for all the permits I think there there's some component of that that we have to take into consideration I think there's a lot of uncertainty that we have on mitigation right But that in theory the mitigation projects that were permitted under the previous permits we have we have said that those are offsetting take a bats We can't track that in terms of bat numbers I think there's a lot of different
18:30 - 19:00 moving parts to this So that's a good point I don't disagree with you Kavika I just think it's nuanced right And ideally we have better information to help inform our analysis I get your point though It's a lot of take of bats on Aahu and Aahu has one of the lowest effective population sizes that doesn't that we don't have a clear understanding of how that equates to actual population size Yeah Right I I acknowledge all those nuances Thank you for pointing them out out
19:00 - 19:30 Um so but the fact that we've taken 124 whatever the number was they just said and we have effective population size about low 200s then uh seems like we've thus far seen a the genetic effect that population cut in half Would you do you see it differently than that I think we'd have I mean ideally we would have an idea of what the change in effective population size is over time
19:30 - 20:00 Yeah I've got we've got a single data point I'd love to be able to see what that looks like Yeah Well that's getting back to my original original question population of the taken bats represent We don't know that Yeah Go ahead Karen Um yeah I guess I just um I've just been hearing Karina Pensari is listening in on this and she's just wanted to make sure that folks understood that that effective population size table right includes
20:00 - 20:30 includes bats that were taken over a period of about a decade and it includes samples from Sorry stop Yeah go back Okay now can you say that sentence again now that I'm looking at the numbers Um so that that contemporary pop effective population size number is includes samples from bats that were collected over a period of about 10 years including bats that were collected at at wind facilities And so yeah I mean
20:30 - 21:00 that's not not to say that it is it's a snap it's a snapshot in time but just to I guess clarify that it is including that that that's what that sample is including Yes So the way I would interpret that is she's essentially cautioning you with making the step towards saying a loss of 120 whatever means a loss of half of the genetic diversity Like it's just difficult to um encapsulate that I think a much more important point is that we have a very
21:00 - 21:30 low number of bats on Aahu No one knows the exact number and we don't have any studies on the horizon that would actually give us any kind of good population estimate which seems pretty important at this point So in light of the fact that we're evaluating a research plan today I want to really highlight that that if this is a huge sticking point we don't have any studies on the horizon that would tell us how many bats there actually are Um so anyways I I just want to and this is exactly why I brought it up so we could talk through it a bit and not just
21:30 - 22:00 gloss over This is really important Um and then while I'm have the floor I'll just ask the HCP staff So I think a few of us on committee members are are a little bit confused on where we are in the guidance and questioning why we're allowing research In my mind it's because this was all based on a previous iteration of the BAT guidance that allowed for research Is that am I remembering correctly
22:00 - 22:30 Uh yes it it is from a a previous iteration um for 2015 There have been I believe roughly three drafts after that um that we have posted Uh we are currently working on a new draft um and research um that was kind of one of the um initial things that was identified for bats and that's where that um $50,000 per bat proxy comes from
22:30 - 23:00 That was the spirit of that was to fund research um and the research was required for these folks to kind of shape their um take requests and their plans Okay So I mean I think this is what what my recollection So but is it true that the most recent guidance does not um allow for research is mitigation or am I or did that not get finalized Um it it does not That's why they we've
23:00 - 23:30 moved to the 20 acre perbat proxy Um Troy can explain in more detail but to the best of my knowledge the reason they're requesting a dollar proxy is because this plan was initially formulated in 2016 uh which was within that cutoff for um the uh dollar amount Um also there are some um research aspects to the plans they're trying to implement Um but uh
23:30 - 24:00 Troy can speak to that more Okay So and and I should probably wait till we get there Um but that request seems like we need to have some uh in-depth discussion on and I imagine that we might need Danica around or we might need to go into executive session to clarify with Danica a few things So she's leaving at 10:30 Hopefully we can get through this quickly or um something else Yeah There might be a clarifying question here while she's
24:00 - 24:30 still here If essentially if research was approved as mitigation under the original plan am I understanding you to say that essentially like we need to it's kind of like if you're grandfathered in on something right Like if because it was approved under the original plan research is an acceptable form of mitigation for this plan uh until the end of the permit term And our guidance is more what kind of research is acceptable Am I understanding that all correctly That is correct Yes Okay
24:30 - 25:00 Um but we're talking about adaptive management right Uh um uh no So uh to date these folks um I believe they they may have done some research but they haven't done any uh mitigation actions for bats This would be their first um uh mitigation actions for bats Oh okay
25:00 - 25:30 Um All right I'll leave it there Thank you for all that clarification Um I see Michelle has her hand up I I just want to take it one step further Jesse and hopefully you can help help me if I'm getting this wrong My understanding is that it wasn't just that at the time of this permit that research was an acceptable form of mitigation under the bat white guidance but that the actual permit was written with this tier as having research built
25:30 - 26:00 in this research project built in like it was part of the permit slashlic authorization was it was already anticipated that this was going to be research I believe that is true yes okay and there's a nuance there right like between whether it's an acceptable form versus whether or not it was yes an acceptable form but also written in as part of the HCP at the
26:00 - 26:30 Okay thank you Just sorry a brief follow up on that and this is just helping me understand the ground rules for the day so I understand what the what the expectations are Um research was built into this tier They've entered this tier or they're about to enter this tier and so they need to propose a research project Was the type of research that would be considered acceptable written in as well or is that something that we have a
26:30 - 27:00 little bit more um leeway in uh like hey we already know X Y Z you we would expect that the research would be different from this and more useful or is it like they kind of had written in what kind of research they were going to do and so our hands are a bit tied uh understood We're pulling up their HCP now Okay
27:00 - 27:30 And Craig has his hand raised Yeah Apologies I know this might be out of order speaking speaking now but um I I am when I uh take the floor in a little bit and give my presentation At the beginning I I will give a a pretty detailed review of what was in the HCP u what was required and so forth Um and the short version for for you Melissa is it's not explicitly described but there are some parameters So I I will give a review of that in the beginning of my presentation
27:30 - 28:00 Thank you And yeah again um that's super helpful I look forward to hearing that I I think um since we're in this line of questioning I don't know if the HCP office or if Danica can provide guidance on like yeah content versus what gets developed later or if that's just best discussed later once we get into it Hi this is Danica It seems like it would
28:00 - 28:30 be helpful maybe if it went to the permites presentation I'm not sure how much was left on this presentation but if it's possible that might be helpful And I'm re-reviewing Napole Money's BAT research part as well right now So you know if there's if I think if DOA HCP or I have any disagreement with what Mr Rame is going to present you know we can raise
28:30 - 29:00 those as they come up and say "Hey wait We think it says this." Um yeah So I don't know where exactly we are in the flow of the agenda but it might be helpful to move to permit's presentation Sounds good I can hold my pre my any further questions until the HCP office is done with their presentation and it's the appropriate space for the other one Uh thank you Melissa Um yes folks if uh
29:00 - 29:30 I could wrap up the presentation um not only just to get through it um but also because uh staff here we need just a a quick moment to look at their HCP um to uh aid in answering these questions Um so just to give you folks an idea of the timeline um on this particular part of the project uh Napua Mccani began developing a bat mitigation plan with
29:30 - 30:00 the agencies in uh 2013 Their habitat conservation plan was finalized in 2016 It was contemplated in their HCP that the research plan would be finalized and approved within six months of commercial operation The plan will be implemented one year after commercial operation These folks are using the $50,000 pervat proxy As I previously mentioned uh land acquisition is listed as an alternative in their HCP Commercial operations began on
30:00 - 30:30 December 11th 2020 Um looking through their annual reports FY21 states both plans that is the mitigation and the research plan are to be completed one year after commercial operation uh through FY22 um Tetrate Tech submitted plans to the agencies for review FY23 um went through um another round of revisions FY24 agencies reviewed the plans again and they went before the
30:30 - 31:00 ESRC That would be the May 17th meeting And um now we're in the present uh FY25 Um these folks have been meeting with the agencies and uh DOA Wahoo branch staff and members of the Kola Mountain Wershed Partnership Um that brings us to the present where we are currently reviewing these plans and um potentially taking the vote on them Um recognizing Kavika's request
31:00 - 31:30 from yesterday then um also Melissa's request this morning Um since we don't have the meeting minutes available I've taken the recommendations slide directly from last year's presentation at the annual review um I've thrown it up here Uh I've done some color coding for you folks to help to organize this Green means that HCP staff feels that they have accomplished this Orange means um we've received some uh verbal information um might not be 100% explicit in their plan Um so these could
31:30 - 32:00 be things to ask questions about Um red is is it requires a lot of of work and updates Um so they have provided a narrative on how the goals and objectives uh provide a benefit to the bats Um they provided targets regarding invasive species reduction um by acreage and the timeline when those uh targets will be accomplished um is a bit rough but it's there mitigation plan needs to reflect the work that's
32:00 - 32:30 already being done in the parcel and actually target species that will be the primary focus of the mitigation plan Um these folks have done a great job of coordinating um with all the entities that operate in the POM home management area Um and then in uh full disclosure I have uh for the public I have no financial interest in KMWP but I was formerly an employee of KMWP Um and I did provide technical insight for Napole Makani um in uh their efforts to develop
32:30 - 33:00 these plans Um so I can say that uh we did look through all of our data We worked um a lot with DOA branch staff um OISK other folks that operate in that area to identify these um more or less virgin areas of forest um where these folks mitigation actions are strictly attributed to them and them alone Um and that kind of covers the uh recommend parsing out their accomplishments bullet point Um there they do have a map um that
33:00 - 33:30 formalizes the approach on the locations and monitoring Um those are those ovals Um it's at the end of their habitat management plan They do have that map in there Um they did include biomass as a success criteria for arthropods Uh something that um we would like to see more clarification on is the biological rationale for the 8-year implementation period Um specifically why eight years Is there a biological
33:30 - 34:00 rationale for eight years Um what we saw was that it was more of a funding rationale for eight year eight years but um we're looking for clarification on that Uh they did include outplanting as more than adaptive management measure Um it's now its own separate thing within their plan Uh in our submitt we addressed issues with the outplanting plan We'd like to see something that's a little more fleshed out um including planting strategy pot size amendments um
34:00 - 34:30 what species they're going to use uh do they have a vendor secured for it all of those things that would go into um executing a successful outplanting plan Um these folks have been uh coordinating with entities for standards of outplanting and invasive species control um they uh they have been doing this There is um language that speaks to it in the BMPs that are included in their plans Um there could be a little more
34:30 - 35:00 information regarding outplanting and a little more indication of coordination for outplanting Um DOA is highlighted as a tenative vendor for this Um things that need to be addressed without planting um would be does DOA have the capacity to grow those plants Um are there enough propagules to grow those plants Um how are they going to about go about collecting them Um is that DOA staff time to collect that material
35:00 - 35:30 How's that going to happen Um so again we need to see a little more dialogue with that Um we'd like to see a little more dialogue with the rationale behind the years 1 3 5 and 8 for acoustic monitoring versus annually Uh and then um I was talking with Troy the other day about the last bullet point of using thermal cameras for monitoring Um please ask him for more about this uh the they don't feel that it's the
35:30 - 36:00 appropriate environment um due to the uh I guess the view plane of a camera um in this habitat So um please ask them more questions about that Moving on to recommendations you folks made for their tier one research plan Um consider moving control plots farther away So acoustic monitoring can be used in both mitigation and research
36:00 - 36:30 plan Um these folks have moved their control plots to outside of the fenced area in KO Mo whereas their monitoring uh plots for the mitigation plan are going to be inside the fence for Koho Uh and then you also asked uh them to provide an overview of other entities invasive species and outplanting management plans in the area uh prior to the selection of research plots to reduce the likelihood of interference with management plans Um remembering u more or less in this area that uh
36:30 - 37:00 teamwork makes the dream work Um so these folks are committed to um and have demonstrated that they do have open lines of communication with all the entities that do operate in that area And with that I'd like to thank you all for your time And the DOA on staff presentation is now complete Yes I want to make a comment Thank you so much That was very helpful especially
37:00 - 37:30 with the recommendations Thank you I can share the screen Okay Um we're going to real quickly pull up the language from the HCP
37:30 - 38:00 Right Um so this is the language from their HCP Uh we've highlighted um the important parts So it looks like it's a funding for um and ensure completion of Han Hory bat research project uh targeting one of the research priorities identified in the draft ESRC that guidance Um I'm assuming those are the
38:00 - 38:30 bullet points listed above Uh next county power partners may fund research that will supplement mitigation monitoring as part of the forest restoration mitigation actions at PO Ridge um PO management area These uh this research would target collecting data to document changes in measures related to improvements in bat habitat associated with restoration efforts
38:30 - 39:00 So that that means that it's it has the research has to be related to the the work that they're doing in the mitigation area Yes Okay And my memory is that there was a pretty broad swath of things um when they compiled that list of of potential research projects
39:00 - 39:30 Um maybe just at a near future meeting of ESRC it would be useful for us to revisit that um my memory is that the projects that were picked up are the ones that are a little bit easier to do in conjunction with management The ones that haven't been done are some of these things that are really sticking points now and tough and as far as like population size and stuff like that that are are just harder to answer and would have taken a lot more intensive research So I understand why those ones are
39:30 - 40:00 generally not the ones that people pick up first Uh but they are um resulting in some sticking points now So it it's not relevant to this one because this is again uh grandfathered in under previous things So um I'll keep that in mind in my comments But um I do think we need to revisit that and identify the things that are current sticking points and really giving us trouble uh for anything future
40:00 - 40:30 Um so with that unless there are any other um additional comments from ESRC members at this time I'm going to turn the floor over to Troy Ramig at Tetrate Tech Aloha everyone Um before I get started Jesse I just sent you a request to allow screen sharing so Oh there we go Good Um thanks for having me today and um
40:30 - 41:00 just I think in terms of kind of time I will introduce I have a group here with me and I'll introduce uh them So I along with me today from AES uh we have uh Priya Kumar Tyler Bastian and um Karen Lidle Bonin and then also joining me from Tetratech we have uh Leslie Mlan and Chris Todd Um so at points you know probably not during the presentation but at points during the Q&A or whatever I may uh pull those folks in um to the
41:00 - 41:30 discussion a little bit So um yeah thanks for that good overview and and for the discussion already Um as I mentioned I will I will do um a little bit of can first of all let me check can everybody see my screen I think hopefully I am sharing my screen so hopefully you can see it Um I will do a little bit of just an overview Um I know it's there's quite a you know bit of time in between the discussions we have together So I will you know talk about the HCP and what's required and and you
41:30 - 42:00 know kind of how that interconnects with what we're proposing here Uh and then um talk a little bit about the history and and planning coordination Jesse already did a little bit of that So um I'll just add some detail there and then get into um some of the nuts and bolts of of the plan particularly how it's changed since last time you have seen it So talk about the goals and objectives the updates related to management activities management locations and so forth Um and then provide a little bit of information
42:00 - 42:30 about the research plan and um and I will I do have in here a series of slides where I review your recommendations Jesse just did that a really good job of that So I'll probably cruise through those a little more quickly and we can revisit those as we need to um during the Q&A Um and I don't have a good view on if hands get raised or whatever during the presentation So maybe Jesse or Kinsley if you could just keep an eye on that for me and just interrupt me if
42:30 - 43:00 needed So um to start off with HP requirements and history of of the planning process Um so some of this has been covered but I'll just go ahead and kind of restate a few things The uh Numa County uh power wind project was permitted back in 2018 and then it actually started operations in at the end of 2020 So um it's been permitted for um you know whatever seven years but it's really only been operating for you know four and a half or five years Uh as Jesse noted
43:00 - 43:30 authorized for up to 34 bats um over the 20-year permit term Um that's tier one So we're we're in tier one and and and um you know that's the first tier and this is the first mitigation that's being proposed by the project Uh in in the HCP the tier one bat mitigation uh it specifically talks about implementing bat habitat restoration and monitoring um in the PO mo management area um which is what we're moving
43:30 - 44:00 forward with and what we've been discussing for a number of years here So nothing has changed there Uh the ACP does identify provisions for eight years of funding for forest restoration fence maintenance and acoustic monitoring for for both units So for the entirety of Pomoo so 1300 acres Um and the PMA was identified as the best candidate for restoration and management and specifically notes collaboration with um KMWP as the implementing partner um there And and all of that remains true
44:00 - 44:30 today So I think we're still you know kind of aligned with what was originally envisioned Um I will note just quickly there were questions about the the 8-year number of eight years and and a request for a biological um uh biological justification for that eight years And in the HCP it's actually not uh it actually isn't a biological justification It's more of a financial justification So Jesse was noting that in the HCP it talks about this you know $50,000 per bat And then there was some thought about um how that funding would
44:30 - 45:00 be metered out over a period of time and what would be the you know the kind of um kind of logical rationale for spend frankly So um it's you know for better or worse it's not really a biological rationale but more of a kind of a logistical rationale with respect to funding and how it's put on the ground Um so I just wanted to note that Uh I do I I I do think um as we've been working through this process and not to get ahead of myself here but um you know I think that uh 8 years isn't very long
45:00 - 45:30 but at the same time it forces us to do a lot of work quickly and I think that does actually help us with you know any kind of temporal issues that we worry about when you think about when the take occurs versus when the mitigation benefit is realized and so if if nothing else um though it's not a biologically based number it does you know force is to do work quickly Um and then uh we talked about this a little bit already but also in the tier one um bat mitigation plan in
45:30 - 46:00 the HCP it talks about this research work So conduct a bat research study and it notes in there um valued at $100,000 contributing to the knowledge of Hawaiian horats on Aahu Um and then it goes on to note and we just looked at the language together so I don't need to blavorver it but um based on agency input during the development of the HCP the mitigation they wanted the mitigation to be focused primarily on the habitat management actions that are happening in Puho Um and then you know
46:00 - 46:30 given this sort of novel approach the agencies reinforced the importance of expanded research on the effects of habitat management actions uh and and really the idea was let's take a look when we're doing the management actions in Pomoo let's look at things uh look at how it is influence things that matter to bats um and and hopefully we can glean information that can be applied to management actions that occur beyond POMO you know and all the in all the mitigation work we're doing uh around the islands And so we'll get to that a
46:30 - 47:00 little bit later but that really is the intent here um as we're implementing these management actions and invasive species control in particular on the ground Um you know how does that influence bat ray um on the landscape and and that's the kind of information that could be translated to other projects in the future Uh the HP goes on to acknowledge um that you know DOVA had already received funding for uh two units being fenced at POMO Um and was in the process of
47:00 - 47:30 installing the fence and anticipated that it would be installed in a timely manner Um DNR did not have it also noted that DNR did not have secure funding for long-term forest restoration and management of the parcels um including fence maintenance pig removal and so forth Uh but I point that out here because I think in the past there has been discussion about the fact that these parcels were they're already fenced and you know pigs have been removed from these areas And I was wanted to note that in the HCP it's pretty clear that um the the um the
47:30 - 48:00 utility of doing mitigation on Pomoo was not pred it was not predicated on the fact that Num McConn would install the fence there was an understanding that the fence was already going to be installed and we would be basically funding uh management actions that are occurring um in the promo And then a couple of just additional points here um is in the HCP it also goes on to note that um you know PMA was explicitly chosen because there
48:00 - 48:30 is a long-term funding need u there has been documented bat presence in the past in this area in this part of the island and there's um ongoing concern that you know despite management occurring out there bat habitat is steadily decreasing in quality due to impacts from pigs and invasive plants So um you know a lot of times when we think about mitigation and restoration and so forth we're we're always thinking about like well what can we do to you know provide some ecological lift or make things better Um
48:30 - 49:00 we are doing that here but at the same time also trying to keep things from getting worse So there is some kind of prevention or protection against degradation that is um that is being valued here and that's related to the invasive species control And then finally just the ACP notes that the restoration and management activities will foster the growth of additional bat roosting and foraging habitat and will support a forested corridor connected with and this is a if you think about this landscape there's there are a lot of other areas that are being you know
49:00 - 49:30 managed by resource agencies state parks and and the army and and so forth And so um making sure that this the POMO kind of fits into that regional picture for a bat habitat corridor So that's kind of the the history and and what's in the HCP and um and so then you know as as Jesse alluded to in his presentation Um we got kind of got started on this right from the beginning but we've been at it for a while So
49:30 - 50:00 there have been you know several drafts that have been traded back and forth between the agencies and um and the NPUMAC team And um you know we've been in front of you all on a few occasions The most recent was about almost exactly a year ago Um and what we've done basically since the time we were together last um you know was go back at your direction and um work collaborative with this collaborative collaboratively with this you know group of of agencies that are working on the ground in the
50:00 - 50:30 PMA um to gather more information become come up with a more definitive plan on what we would be implementing on the ground um and and also um provide some more clarity about you know just kind of roles and responsibilities and in communication And so the plan that you have in front of you and what we're talking about today is really the the result of all that ongoing work Um and before we dive into the details of that I do want to acknowledge that there has been quite a lot of people working on
50:30 - 51:00 this for for a long time in in particular uh in the last you know 6 8 12 months Um this is a picture of the of the group and there are more people on on virtually that you can't see Um we all got together in January and at the AE office in AES office in Honolulu Um and that was kind of the culmination of a number of months of work where we were uh working on the revisions to the the the what became the final draft and then this kind of half-day workshop meeting
51:00 - 51:30 we were um working out the final details and gathering final recommendations from the agencies and the management partners um and turned that into the draft that you now have in front of you So just want to you know appreciate all the work that um a a lot of people have put into the draft that's been been written to date Um and also note that you know many of those people this is not their primary job and they're doing it um you know as part of their kind of roles and responsibilities at their agency But um
51:30 - 52:00 know that it takes time uh to do that And then I'll leave you for this section And I'll just leave you with just a little bit of a crosswalk of the requirements that are in the HCP and where we are where we think we are today Um and this is really just a summary of what I've sum talked about so far And that is um you know the HCP talks about the PMA being the best candidate for restoration and management funding and collaboration with KMWP being the best possible solution to doing management in the in the PMA for Hawaiian Horybats So
52:00 - 52:30 we're certainly doing that Uh we think that we're meeting that requirement in the HCP Um it talks about funding for two full-time employees to perform forest management uh and restoration activities in the PMA Um we'll talk about dollars later but um the the funding that is the resulting funding for the work that we're proposing now is is is you know quite a bit in excess from what was contemplated in the original HCP So we certainly exceeded that um the bat research the portion of
52:30 - 53:00 the of that work that will be uh researched is certainly exceeding $100,000 at this point in time And then um making sure that the research and the management kind of work in tandem to allow us to learn something about how these management actions may may or may not be benefiting um Hawaiian Horbat so that we can apply that knowledge in other places and we're certainly um exceeding that Um as I mentioned I'm going to well let me just pause Um any initial questions from the group before I move into the nuts and bolts of the updates
53:00 - 53:30 on this management plan Maybe um given kind of some of the earlier discussion it might be helpful to hear the rest of your presentation before diving in questions just in case we're asking questions that you're about to answer Love it Good idea Okay Personal feeling but I don't know if anyone disagrees I'm going to take that response Melissa Roth Um so I'm going to if it's okay I'm going to I had also um lined out the
53:30 - 54:00 comments that you all had back in in May of last year So I'm going to skip over that because Jesse did a really good job of summarizing those um but as I noted we can revisit those at any point um when we you know during the Q&A or or later on on in the meeting So um one of the things that was was brought up in previous discussions was you know articulating very clearly articulating biological goals and objectives and success criteria So we have um put you know more detail in the in the current
54:00 - 54:30 plan um related to that and it really breaks down to this um the the goals of the habitat management plan are to fully offset the incidental take of 34 Hawaiian hory bats um which is required in tier one and provide a net benefit to the species Um that's the you know the no-brainer version Um restore structural diversity and prevent further deterioration of Hawaiian hory bat foraging habitat in the PMA Uh reduce invasive plant species coverage to significantly increase bat prey availability in the PMA And then
54:30 - 55:00 increase native biological diversity to significantly increase Hawaiian worry bat activity in the PMA So um really breaks down to um you know providing some additional structure uh uh increasing doing actions that will increase prey availability and then uh doing actions that will increase Hawaiian hory bat use of the PMA Um all of that results in about $3 million of management funding over um the next eight years So I I can't
55:00 - 55:30 remember what it was exactly I think it was I think it was in the HCP $1.7 million Um and so we're not quite double that but we're pretty close to that based on you know the costs today Um and that that's about you know roughly $375,000 a year going uh into management in the PMA Um so I think um certainly a notable amount of of funding The success criteria um look like this Statistical significant
55:30 - 56:00 increase in plant species richness over baseline um a a significant reduction in invasive plant species absolute percent cover over baseline Um significant increase in arthropod or bat prey biomass uh and an increase in bat acoustic activity indicating bat activity is increased over the 8-year implementation period of the plan And then 50% survival of all outplanted trees at the end of the eight years Um I'll talk about out planting in a little bit but that's something that
56:00 - 56:30 we've added new to the plan in response to recommendations from the group And then net benefits for Hawaiian horybat Um this was another section or another note from you all and from others uh just to be a little bit more deliberate in the management plan about what the net benefits are to the species And so um the sort of the bullet list summary of that looks like this um increase Hawaiian hory bat roosting and foraging habitat um through natural uh
56:30 - 57:00 reveation and outplanting um attract Hawaiian hory bats to low elevation areas along stream corridors which would then facilitate broader use of the PMA and we'll get to that when we start talking about the management focus areas um contribute to ongoing efforts to stop degradation of the PMA uh and improve habitat value for roybat So I mentioned a little bit ago that on the one hand we are doing restoration but we are also um trying to slow and eventually stop degradation of habitat quality So those two things sort of work hand inand fund
57:00 - 57:30 continued monitoring and maintenance of an unulatefree um PMA Um I will note on that one one of the adjustments we have made in this plan which will become u apparent in a little bit is that um based on feedback from the management partners and the agencies we have we've sort of minimized we haven't we haven't gotten rid of the um funding for uh monitoring or maintenance of the fence uh and an unulate removal or pig removal
57:30 - 58:00 but we you know that's something that seems to be pretty well in hand um you know funding notwithstanding that's going to be different every year But um what we've done though is taken the funding that we had previously allocated for fence monitoring and maintenance and so forth and switch that over to doing more management activities basically Um and then in the plan we basically say you know if something happens in any given year and funding is needed to support fence maintenance or monitoring or pig removal that you know that's
58:00 - 58:30 something that num the npumba county funding could be used for but it's not going to be the primary use Um and that'll be just kind of a an annual assessment based on the management partners out there and working with the agencies Um and then the last couple here contribute to the understanding of how management actions influence changes in bat prey biomass and Hawaii or bat presence So that's the research piece here Uh and then support a forested corridor Again thinking about how this um how the POMO fits within the regional
58:30 - 59:00 landscape of bat habitat Um and making sure that uh it remains you know high quality habitat uh to facilitate movement through the area So the um let's get into the what what's changed U maybe I'll and really just kind this is a bit of a highlight reel but I thought it'd be important to just note what we did um mainly in response to uh the the comments uh and discussions we had from you all a year ago and then the follow-up discussions
59:00 - 59:30 we've had with the management partners and the agencies Um so just a quick overview of what's in the habitat management plan Um I will dive into some details on a few of these in a in a couple of slides but uh the management program is basically um you know a focus on management of invasive species and locations with monotypic habitat altering stands So we're again we're striving for diversity here and our aim is to increase um you know the biomass
59:30 - 60:00 of of prey species and so locations that have monotypic stands of invasive species are not great for you know um for the diversity of prey species So that's something we're trying to change Uh targeted out planting in low low elevation locations along stream streams to increase bat divers habitat diversity Um we're going to look at the ma the management focus areas in a minute but uh the idea of focusing on lower elevations along streams is to focus on areas that are uh you know most likely to be used by bats Um they're probably
60:00 - 60:30 currently being used at some level but we want to increase use And then as we start looking at the maps you'll see another thing we're trying to accomplish here is to u you know attract bats or or um um yeah attract bats to the area and and have them be spending more time because there's enough prey resources in the area that they then begin to distribute across the pomo up the drainages and utilize the entire site more broadly So that's something that's kind of a long-term goal here Um I mentioned fence monitoring and
60:30 - 61:00 maintenance and angular control as needed and then um habitat management activities to be funded by Nepool McConey uh and conducted by KMWP with support from Nepumani and Tetratech as needed u particularly on the reporting and monitoring side of things Uh and then uh with respect to monitoring um there will be you know obviously baseline monitoring happening in the first year and then the plan outlines monitoring a monitoring program to evaluate whether actions to manage and restore habitat and bat prey resources
61:00 - 61:30 result in an increase in acoustic activity by bats Uh and the monitoring is designed to um document a reduction in invasive plants um particularly in those locations where there's monotypic stands Now uh document changes in b uh prey species biomass um following the management activities and then document changes in bat activity through acoustic um work So um here's a a few updates now So
61:30 - 62:00 the plan that you have in in front of you and um hopefully taking a look at there's a couple of things of note here starting with some terminology So um we've been talking about the Pomoo all all day already and that's that hasn't changed So that's the 1300 acre area fenced area um that we've been focusing on for a number of years now and that's identified in the HCP And um as we have noted and discussed as a group in the past there are some existing management areas out there So there's some
62:00 - 62:30 management happening out there from uh DOAPM and OSK and KMWP And so when we talk about those in the habitat um management plan you know we're identifying those as as areas that are being managed at some level already And we'll show those on a map in a second Uh and then the the um Numa County mitigation area are all areas managed by not managed by partners plus any locations where outplanting might occur uh in previously managed areas So you could think about a location where there
62:30 - 63:00 has been some invasive plant work done management done uh you know in the past um and but the area could really benefit from from some outplanting So that might be a location where um nuani outplanting efforts could target for example um and we'll get to more of that later And then finally um there was interest from this group and from the agencies to um just have a a better handle on where the management was going to be occurring and kind of at what levels And so what we've done in this updated plan is identify
63:00 - 63:30 what we're calling management focus areas Um and I'm going to talk about the criteria that we use to kind of select those in a minute But these are basically areas where the management will be happening Um and monitoring will also be happening in those locations again so we can look at changes that might be happening on the on the landscape um resulting from the management management activities So you've seen this before This is just a a map Um it's now getting
63:30 - 64:00 a little bit dated but it shows uh just a kind of a snapshot of uh invasive species that have been detected out um in Po And it uh I I don't I'm not showing it to you for any other reason to just say like you know there's there has been a lot of work out there by all the partners are on the phone and have been involved in the process but there's still a lot of work to do and I think there were some discussions um at various points in the process about uh you know worrying about you know is there is there still a need to do
64:00 - 64:30 management out there or is there enough of a need to do management out there that would warrant investment by Numa and um you know everything all the people that we've been talking to um the answer is a resounding yes there is always a need to do management out there and and there's always you know uncertainty about long-term funding um for the work that is happening and so uh the more we can do to stabilize funding sources for that work I think the better um and so what we have done in response
64:30 - 65:00 to um questions from the group is uh there were some there were some questions about um you well where has management been happening in the past and how does the work that Numa County is going to be doing kind of overlay with that landscape and so um a lot of the time since the last time we talked to you all last May and now has been spent um working uh this is just one map but it took a long time to get to this map um and I'll I'll probably tell you that it may be slightly out of date you
65:00 - 65:30 know the day it's printed but um it's an ongoing management process out there and um this is a pretty good you know a pretty good depiction of the work that the the three different groups management partners are doing out there Um and you'll note there's a combination of the KMWP management areas which are the hatched areas you're seeing on the uh on the map and then both DOPA DOPA NEMA and OS have done aerial spraying and some other locations and so you'll
65:30 - 66:00 see those um on the map as well And then the other things I'll just point out um uh that you're seeing there is uh number one the backdrop here is just the um the land ownership Um so a combination of army land to the south um the state you know which is where Pomo is and then um Kamehameha schools to the north Um and then lastly the the yellow dots you're seeing there are the various landing zones because um you know nearly nearly
66:00 - 66:30 all the work if not all the work that happens out here is uh done using helicopters and so there are some logistical um issues related to where work can happen relative to those landing zones So um we took all that information and then we started thinking about okay where would it make the most sense you know at least initially for Num County to begin doing um management out there and so we like I said came up with this concept of management focus areas and um
66:30 - 67:00 wanted to be deliberate about the selection of those locations um and came up with a series of criteria which you'll see in the plan and those are uh elevation so we want to be working in areas where we're most likely to see you know to be able to attract bats and in increase bat use Um uh part of that story is you know doing work along stream corridors um similar you know uh kind of thoroughares that are used by bats especially when they're foraging and then um thinking about locations
67:00 - 67:30 that once invasive species management is successful that might be suitable for outplanting and based on the just the logistics out there and the kind of extreme topography you know that outplanting isn't going to work everywhere out there and so um you know that we we kind of factor that into where we you know where we would want to be doing invasive uh species management from the outset Um slope and accessibility is a big part of the puzzle here Um we'll talk more about that in a little bit but that's uh it's
67:30 - 68:00 a primary consideration just because of the logistics out there and and difficulty in doing work Um and then of course uh as much as possible avoiding overlap with existing management locations I showed the map and um I'll talk about that more in a minute when I show the management focus areas But um you know the other thing that we did uh you know I think there was interest from this group and from others to you know nail that down as completely as we can now and um while we haven't completely done that
68:00 - 68:30 I think what we have added to the plan that's going to assist us there is just um a lot more information about what the communication is going to look like between the management partners Um it's going to be a it's going to be an iterative process all along the way Um and we are you know including you know obviously there's going to be almost continuous coordination but then we're including um you know more coordination with the agencies along the way and the concept of u for example um annual um you know annual operating plans or
68:30 - 69:00 annual um uh uh management plans basically that'll outline on a yearby-year basis what the priorities are and what the partners are doing and what NPU is doing so we can all keep track of of what's But um but we while we're trying to avoid the overlap we do want to you know think about adjacency to existing management areas So again trying to get some benefit from you know just the the larger the area that is managed um the
69:00 - 69:30 larger the area where um invasive species are um reduced or eradicated the the better we are Um and so you know um locations of of existing management locations are important and trying to um you know find spots that are adjacent to those to make even bigger blocks of managed areas will be helpful And then finally um protection of OIa There there are OIa out there And OIa um as you all by now know is a kind of an identified um roost tree for bats And so if there
69:30 - 70:00 are areas where there are um you know OIa or or um stands of OIa on the landscape uh we might you know be targeting loca targeting management around those locations to get some ancillary benefit there So um this is what the management focus areas look like in the plan that you have and um I will tell you that they are they are ovals and circles on purpose Um so they're not meant to be
70:00 - 70:30 very specific you know specifically delineated things on the landscape but are um locations of interest uh management focus areas And you will see that there are some locations there are some areas that have been managed inside of those circles Uh and um as we were looking at the criteria that we used to select these management focus areas um you know these areas really kind of popped out for the reasons we just discussed um you know they're low elevation they're longstream corridors Um we know that there are uh invasive
70:30 - 71:00 species issues that need to be dealt with there and um and there even though there is some existing management happening in some of those locations there's a lot of work to be done uh in there as well And then if you can just imagine it's a little difficult to see on the map but um you know uh as you think about going uh left to right on the map um you're kind of going up slope towards the um you know towards the up uh towards the um the ridge line there And so thinking about uh ways to kind of
71:00 - 71:30 facilitate bat use of the entire Pomoo and facilitate bat movement um through the landscape I think focusing down low first probably makes the most sense And so just a couple kind of summary slides here Obviously we are um what what we're really doing here even though we're calling it restoration we're we're dealing with threat management Um so it's you know over the
71:30 - 72:00 over the 8-year period really trying to find ways to enhance and restore you know bat habitat quality that starts with invasive plant management Um we've included some outplanting and and other items in the plan as well Um but the ultimate goal is to increase bat use of the area over time Um and uh the the focus there was some questions I think in the last round of comments from the group about you know having more uh more deliberate information in the plan about
72:00 - 72:30 what invasive species will be the focus And so we have done that now and in discussions with all the you know the management partners over the last year um we've identified mules fern and and can t toina as the primary species that will be a focus out there You the map we were looking at a few slides ago there's pretty you still pretty wide distribution of those species on the landscape There are other invasive you know species out there um which I'm showing here on the screen Um and certainly those would be treated as well
72:30 - 73:00 if if they were in those management focus areas and if we came across them Um but with respect to what we're trying to do which is transition these areas of monotypic stands to more diverse stands um those species are you know they're um they're going to be probably more kind of one-off situations and not the primary focus A lot of that work has been done already by the groups that have been working out there for a long time And then um I think some additional just
73:00 - 73:30 benefits to note from this updated plan Obviously you know having people out on the ground there's always benefits Um I will talk about um the ris potential risks to having people out on the ground in a minute but there are benefits to having people out on the ground with respect to just monitoring um you know how how things are how things are going out there ecologically and what the priority should be Um I mentioned the kind of annual plans that we'll be working on um with the group with the with the management partners yeartoear
73:30 - 74:00 and that'll be all about prioritization you know um where should we be focusing our efforts in any given year and that may change year and then we did include out planting that was a request from this group um and uh we settled on outplanting of at least 30 acres of trees suitable for Ryan Horybat foraging and roosting habitat um I do note here You know the actual acreage I say at least 30 The actual acreage I think will be dependent on logistics more than anything Um and feedback from the
74:00 - 74:30 partners to date has been you know the number it seems like a lot for this area um which doesn't it doesn't seem like a big number in general but I think with respect to just the the logistics of getting the material in and get things planted and monitoring it over time um we wanted to be um you know careful about how we were what we were committing to and and how we were going to plan that Um and Jesse noted in his opening presentation about um looking
74:30 - 75:00 for a little bit more detail there with respect to the outplanting and where it's going to be happening and so forth And you know that's absolutely going to be step one um as we get into implementation here the um you know including the commitment in the in the draft or in the in the plan that's in front of you now I think was the important step and the um one of the things we have been has been a little bit challenging and this and outplanting is a perfect example is that you know we
75:00 - 75:30 want to move forward with a lot of these things but we don't yet have an approved plan uh and so we have been you know kind of operating within that point of tension a little bit where um you know hard to get out planting contracted and all that kind of stuff in place without you know some definitive uh you know thumbs up from the SRC and the agencies that this is in fact the plan that's approved and can be moved forward So um things like that will be happening on day one once we get approval and um you know a lot more detail will be uh in
75:30 - 76:00 hand once we get get that underway and then a couple quick slides here on monitoring I know you're getting tired of me talking but I'm almost done Um so a couple things on monitoring Uh um this has remained actually much the same as what you what you have seen before Um but again the idea is we're trying to design this to to monitor uh changes in vegetation and outplanting survival bad acoustic activity and bat prey um in response to our management
76:00 - 76:30 actions over time Um monitoring will occur you know um on on odd years One is baseline and then 3 five and eight Um there were questions about why not do it every year you know particularly as it relates to the BAT acoustic monitoring And that's an example of um I think some of the feedback we've gotten from you know particularly the management partners is just some um I don't I won't say worry but like there there is uh an interest in making
76:30 - 77:00 sure that we are you know being thoughtful about how many times we're sending people out in the field to do stuff um you know every time you put people out in the field you do have an impact on the environment And so we are trying to balance um you know putting when to put people out on the out in the field to gather information and how much are we going to learn from that information that's gathered So with something like bad acoustic activity and the proposal to monitor years 1 3 5 and 8 um if we you know monitored in years 2
77:00 - 77:30 4 and six um and seven we um we would have more years of data I don't know if we would if the trend line would change right so I think um that's one of the things that we've been thinking about as a group is just how you know how much of an impact do we want to have on the environment while we're doing this work um knowing that we're trying to get an overall benefit And I'll also just note this I'll show you a slide in a little bit here That's also been a consideration as we've been putting
77:30 - 78:00 together the research plan and the plots that are outside of the fence Um and in fact as an example in our discussions with the Army about potentially putting um some of the research monitoring plots on their land they actually were not crazy about that idea because they were worried about human impact on the forest Um and so we've actually decided not to um propose um research monitoring plots on Army land um for that very reason So again trying to be thoughtful about um
78:00 - 78:30 when when we're out there how often we're out there and what information we're gleaning from that work Um I I will note that um year one it'll be baseline monitoring but um like the first thing right from the jump will be um going out and establishing the monitoring plot So I noted the the ovals and the management focus areas are kind of purposely circular Um you know that uh identifying the sites is something that has to happen on the ground Like there's no way around that And so um
78:30 - 79:00 there again uh kind of working in this in this uh gray area between having enough detail wanting to go out and do it um needing to pay people to do that um but not yet having an approved plan So um when when we get an approved plan whenever that is um I mean that'll be these will be you know day one items that we start to execute Uh and then more detail on the monitoring here So this is again kind of
79:00 - 79:30 a setup for part of the research you know part of this effort Um and that is to establish 15 monitoring plots basically um five plots across three different treatment types So one that's you know more or less native forest with very little invasive uh plant uh invasion or incursion Um a middle ground that has some established invasive plants but it's not yet a monotypic stand And then third um you know some monitoring plots that are in invasive dominated stands where you have more of a monotypic overtake of an area And
79:30 - 80:00 um you know as the management occurs um what we're really looking at there is you know what's the uh and and again remember what we're looking for here is change in um and vegetation vegetation changes but but mo most importantly um bat prey changes uh and bat use of these areas And so um we are looking a little bit of a kind of a sensitivity analysis here in terms of um you know where do we see those benefits on the landscape And
80:00 - 80:30 again um hopefully information gleaned here would then be helpful in other management activities you know throughout the range of the species um so that we can better understand whether or not the actions that we're h that we're doing on the ground actually are making a difference with respect to bat prey base and then on the um a little bit more on the vegetation monitoring So the vegetation monitoring will be happening once a year and we'll have um you know
80:30 - 81:00 quadrat sampling uh invasive plant species absolute cover and plant species richness will be tracked in those quadrats and then um I mentioned the bat prey monitoring already um that'll be you know quarterly sampling um consistent with bat reproductive periods So we want to learn you know not just what's happening year to year but um are there changes in use throughout the year that might be indicative of bats using the site during different parts of the reproductive periods Um the prey monitoring will be um uh we're using
81:00 - 81:30 malaise traps Uh and then primarily and this is again in response to the group's thoughts last time primarily measuring biomass Um we will measure diversity if possible and that really just depends on the samples that come back and the ability to um identify uh insects um at you know at lower orders or or or lower classes Um and then lastly outplanting monitoring um I mentioned at early in the presentation we set a success rate on this at 50% survival Um and you know
81:30 - 82:00 that's um there's I would say nothing magical about that The intent is to get at least 30 acres of outplanting out there on the ground Um it will be sight specific and in some ways sight constrained Um but I think once we start selecting sites or potential sites and then have a better understanding of stock availability and timing um we'll then be able to you know put together a more detailed monitoring plan um that aligns with those
82:00 - 82:30 objectives And then lastly um bad acoustic monitoring I think I'll just skip down to the bottom here Um you know the idea as you've heard in many presentations um over the years is to use acoustic data Um looking at detection rate number of nightly call files call type uh foraging duration and timing of activity And you know from that we can begin to get a picture of use of the area um and and and more importantly how that use might change
82:30 - 83:00 over time in response to some of these management actions Um and there was a question about uh use of thermal monitoring and Jesse brought that up at the beginning or in his presentation earlier and you know um as we've been working on other projects that are using or going to use thermal monitoring um I think in this landscape again where we're talking about pretty rugged forested landscape uh and um I'll just say you know kind of pretty pretty wide open if you were thinking about where
83:00 - 83:30 would we put thermal monitoring stations out there cameras out there Um it would be you would want it to be in a location where you were really targeting something specific Uh and so you know we could put thermal cameras out there but it would be somewhat random in terms of location and what we might learn from that thermal imagery information Um I also you know think it would be somewhat random frankly depending on the location Um that in contrast to other uses of thermal monitoring like we're
83:30 - 84:00 seeing at you know use of thermal monitoring on some of the actual wind facilities where we're you know using thermal monitoring to see what's happening in terms of bat activity around turbines Those are very targeted monitoring efforts where we can you know begin to learn something about bat activity Um if you imagine putting something like that out just you know in the forest um it's a it'd be a little bit probably a little bit less um useful information Uh and again when we couple that with um you know how do we want to
84:00 - 84:30 spend the resources and where do we want to when and where do we want to put people on the ground and for what purpose Um what what we're thinking is that using acoustic data we can actually get a really good picture of how bats are using the site and the frequency with which they're using the site Uh and we'll be able to you know um determine whether or not we're meeting the the goals and objectives of the of the um of the mitigation or of the management plan with that information alone So we can talk more about that during the discussion but I wanted to just kind of
84:30 - 85:00 uh prime that a little bit Um and then just a a quick note on the on the research plan So I've already talked about it a little bit but the idea would be simply and you've seen this before um to do the same types of monitoring that we're doing on the management plots inside the fence in Pom Moho uh in locations that are outside the fence um on adjacent lands So areas that are um where um you know pigs have
85:00 - 85:30 not been excluded for example um and just run some monitoring in parallel uh with what's happening on the management side um to see what you know to to make some comparisons and see um you kind of investigate the relationship between um invasive species and arthropod communities in that context Um and again this you know hopefully this would allow us to just tease out a little bit more the effectiveness of the management actions inside the Omoo fence Um and have a little bit more clarity on
85:30 - 86:00 the effect of those actions on the changes in arthropod communities compared to a you know a location where um management's not occurring and unullet are not excluded Uh I noted that um this is the map I was alluding to before Um we had been in discussions in the past about placing those plots you know outside the fence on adjacent lands and um before we had contemplated doing it on you know all of the surrounding lands including the army lands We've
86:00 - 86:30 gotten feedback or DOA has gotten feedback from the army um that they um would do not want that to happen So um it won't uh so we have truncated that a little bit um and are planning to you know put the monitoring plots on state lands and Kamehameha school lands um again site selection has not been determined because that's something that has to be done on the ground um and there were questions from the group or requests from the group about uh potentially moving those monitoring plots further away from the fence or
86:30 - 87:00 further away you know basically from Pomo so that um we could we could monitor you know vegetation and arthropods and also do some bat acoustic monitoring because on the in the research plan we're not planning on doing any bat acoustic monitoring because of the adjacency to the the other work Um and you know again that comes down to logistics and I mentioned on the previous slide um where the helicopter landing zones are and the ability to get people in and out of there and do it in a way that is you
87:00 - 87:30 know kind of respectful of the existing native landscape Um you know I think we're we're going to be limited I think we could we could certainly try to get them as far away as we can but at some point we will be limited and and how far away we can get them from the the landing zones and the fence line just based on logistics So and then last but not least um I think one of the more important updates that we made in this version of the plan is of you know just depicting the
87:30 - 88:00 ongoing coordination So this is going to be um you know a a group effort Jesse talked about this at the beginning Um and you know things change quickly out there and priorities will change depending on what everybody's seeing on the landscape And so we wanted to be more deliberate in the management plan about what the roles and responsibilities might be and what the kind of just ongoing you know coordination was going to look like Um and we built in a couple of things One is just um uh and this was I think a
88:00 - 88:30 request from the US Fish and Wilder Service was after we do the baseline work like let's how about we do a baseline report right and make it available to everybody so we can have a baseline report to start with and then um have basically annual work plans that are um you know that are worked out with the management partners and then shared with the agency so everybody has a clear understanding of um what's happening you know not just generally which I've just described but also like year to year you know what's what are the priorities for
88:30 - 89:00 this year and next year Um and part of that has to do with while the you know the Napuma County funding will be constant um obviously other funding sources are not and so you know we're constantly going to be fitting into the larger puzzle here um with all the management partners um and then you know u obviously during the the deployments and and ongoing work I mean there's going to be just constant coordination with the management partners um through that process and then we would have quarterly updates um to DOA HCP and US
89:00 - 89:30 Fish and Wildlife Service on you know what the annual what what the annual work plan was how that's going has anything changed Um get feedback from the group on on that and just said there's a real-time update And I think especially in the in the first couple of years when you know things are getting kind of worked out and solidified those those more frequent check-ins are going to be important Um and then as Jesse noted we did include adaptive manage an
89:30 - 90:00 adaptive management um section program in the updated plan Um and you know that's going to be the kind of thing that's going to be discussed analyzed and discussed on an annual basis And frankly it'll just be rolled into those annual work plans So if there's something that's being managed adaptively um it'll just be captured in the annual work plans and worked through with the agencies the management partners So um I see that as a very you know dynamic process Um and as much as we um I think would want to have all of
90:00 - 90:30 that stuff figured out right now Um I I think we we can't escape the fact that it's just going to have to be you know dynamic and that priorities will shift Um as long as we have our you know our ultimate goal of you know increasing um increasing bat prey and increasing bat presence as our kind of like you know um shining light on the hill if you will I think um some of the stuff will will be you know a little bit flexible year to year depending on
90:30 - 91:00 circumstances And I'm done Um thank you for bearing with me I know that was a lot Um and I can keep my screen up and go back to any slide If anybody wants to see anything or whatever is helpful just you can let me know Yeah that would be good Uh thank you Troy I just wanted to start with with gratitude It's it's super clear that you folks have been engaging in this process in good faith and working really hard to work through it and we don't see that from all permites So I really appreciate it Um I
91:00 - 91:30 do have a few questions I'm not quite sure where this fits but it kind of uh it goes back to last year's recommendations about the request for outplanting plan and that connects to some things that you talked about in the presentation which um you know talks about taking down monotypic stands of invasives and increasing species richness of native things which makes a lot of logical sense Um I I think maybe
91:30 - 92:00 why we're the outanting plan is so important is because you could increase species richness of native species and still not um provide any more beneficial habitat for bats Um so I think this has come up before there's been quite a bit of discussion I can't remember if it was on this uh permit or not about what is the limiting factor Is it roosting habitat Is it plants that produce or increase arthropod population You know
92:00 - 92:30 is a limiting factor the food Then I don't know that we've answered that Don't necessarily want to open that can of worms but we might have to But I guess the the point I'm going at is that um the outplanting plant is going to be really important because we might not know for sure which plants contribute to um increasing the arthropods that are part of their diet But like we know they eat moths and there's a bunch of native species that have white tubular flowers that are
92:30 - 93:00 fragrant at night which gives us an indication that they are moth pollinated flowers And knowing that malls are food source um might be a good idea to uh not necessarily just broadscale species richness but targeted increase of plants that based on all our scientific knowledge would give the highest likelihood of increasing food resources So other things like um gardinia and ho ava not only have white
93:00 - 93:30 tubular flowers that would attract mos at night but their fruits as they're decaying would also be um attracting native fruit flies or native and non-native fruit flies which I assume would also be another food source So trying to think about it in a more parameterized context and not just um using increased species richness as a metric of success I don't think that's necessarily going to get us where we need to be and which is why the outping plan is so important
93:30 - 94:00 Yeah that's if I could just maybe weigh in on that That's super super helpful Good good thoughts I think the you know and a lot of the other plans that we work on in Hawaii with you all Um the outplanting is more about structure You know it's like providing structure for bats to find and utilize And I think that is part of the story here But I'm I'm hearing your point Kika about um just I mean also just being thoughtful
94:00 - 94:30 about not just what are we planting to create more structure for bats but what are we what what other plants are we what's the what's the planting pallet look like frankly right Um and and I I agree with you I think that that can be built into the plan the outplanting plan that is put together And then the success criteria that I outlined it's a pretty simple like it's more of a thinking about like trees you know um but but maybe it's a maybe the outplanting maybe the success monitoring for outplanting is more involved than
94:30 - 95:00 that and targets some of these other things that you're talking about Is that am I hearing you right Yeah Yeah I think you are and I appreciate it Um and I'm not intimately familiar with what the dynamics is of this forest and if roosting habitat is the limiting factor but maybe like on a out planting plan I would assume there'd be a list of species and then maybe a a table that you know check off a box if it it's if we think it's going to be roosting habitat or check off a box if we think it's going to be providing a food source for it the target species And I mean if
95:00 - 95:30 if it does both then maybe prioritize those ones And if it doesn't do anything don't have them on the planting plan Even something like that would make me feel a lot better Got it Yeah that's super helpful Thank you I can pass it to someone else I would really love to hear from USGS about what they think about the research too
95:30 - 96:00 Yeah I I would like to like echo Kavika's thanks for that that presentation I think that was really um yeah I appreciated the the thoughtfulness that went into that Um I guess um I was a little I think I well one of the points I wanted to make was I think earlier in the conversation before this presentation we were kind of talking about how there's like the definitely like research gaps missing right and part of the um money that is
96:00 - 96:30 spent on spent having um mitigation money used for research And I do think like one of the important things in a plan like this right is trying to understand what these management actions are actually doing for you know for um bat recovery because I think we've we sort of as ESRC have to accept these restoration activities as
96:30 - 97:00 bat mitigation and yet but we haven't gotten gotten um results to you know indicate that that's that we know that that's happening And so um it was the one of the parts that I wanted to ask about So um I mean you said the the plots outside of the treatment areas you guys are are not able to move those farther away from the further away from
97:00 - 97:30 the treatment areas and are I mean it sounds like you guys haven't identified where those areas could be Is that that's correct Yeah And you know I think we could simply say we can play we willing to place them as far as possible from the treatment area Um I think it's more about logistics and you know and and how how far how deep we can get people in from a helicopter landing zone
97:30 - 98:00 um based on existing trails which are basically informal um and so it's more of a logistics thing than anything Karen and so I think we would strive to obviously get them as far away as we can so we have for sure have separation there um but also just you know being um conscientious about impacts on the landscape and people's safety and all those other things that are relevant So and others may you know who work out there a lot may want to say something
98:00 - 98:30 about that but I mean that's been the feedback we've gotten from the the partners Yeah I mean that those control pots are an important piece for for under you know understanding if the the actions within the mitigation area are actually um right you know affecting change So yep Um yeah I would encourage to I I mean yeah I understand there's a lot of um yeah logistical considerations but um to be working hard to try to find a
98:30 - 99:00 way to have those control plots be uh effective Yeah thanks Agreed And I will just pick on something you said a minute ago about um I do think you know all that we had a good discussion earlier um in the meeting about use of of research you know as part of these mitigation packages um and I do think that while there you know there are challenges saying like research is mitigation I understand that I think this is the kind of research like this is a you know this
99:00 - 99:30 research is like a component of a larger management program and what we're really trying to do is is you know figure out is the management working To your point Karen like we we put together these plans you know for for many um many projects you know in um for for bats and other species And the more we can do to just get a handle on whether or not these management actions are actually doing what we think they're doing um I think all the better
99:30 - 100:00 So um I think this is the kind of research that is really helpful because it's it's embedded in a man a management program you know So and is there um acoustic monitoring planned for within the control plots I'm sure it's in here There's actually not and that was one of the uh early I think discussions we had maybe a year ago was and and that's one of the thing I mean we we so the idea was or the thought was um we probably wouldn't do acoustic
100:00 - 100:30 monitoring because that was the kind of thing where we weren't sure whereas you can differentiate vegetation and arthropod biomass you know because they're not moving as far but bats because you know bats move through the landscape pretty broadly um we were not confident that we would actually be able say much about differences in bat activity at a control plot versus a management plot Um so that's why we did not include bat acoustic monitoring on the research on the control plots that
100:30 - 101:00 are outside the fence Um and I think that was one of the primary drivers for the question about how far away are they You know can we get them further away So so we would be relying um you know exclusively on really focused on the on the bat uh prey abund or biomass the I mean the I guess the response variable that's like for for whether the
101:00 - 101:30 mitigation is is is working is more the the bad activity right than the arthropod I mean hope I guess hopefully bad activity follows arthropod abundance but if not then um it seems that it's not meeting it wouldn't be meeting the criteria I think ultimately that's right I mean in the in the management areas we'll be you know collecting arthropod information and bad activity and it could be that and I'm
101:30 - 102:00 just hopefully this doesn't happen but I'm just going to throw out a hypothetical could be that we see a change in arthropod you know biomass but no change in bad activity um and then you know kind of regardless of what happens on the research plots like that that would be that that'd be something that we would learn from that mitigation and and the bat response is ultimately um what's important important here Um you know conversely we could have a situation where we actually didn't see at least a significant change in
102:00 - 102:30 arthropod biomass but we did see a change in bad activity in one way or the other I mean we don't really know what we're going to see but um I think in all of those cases we would then you know that's sort of like in my view one question And then the the research part where we're looking at um responses of bat prey base to these management activities Um I mean it's obviously related but it's in some ways almost kind of separate Um I think we would um yeah I think what we're really trying to get at with the research question is are
102:30 - 103:00 we able to influence changes in arthropod biomass on these sites through management activities and and reduction of invasive plants on the landscape Um and then how bats respond is almost a separate issue although the most important one So Michelle has your hand up from help Hey Troy thanks again for that
103:00 - 103:30 presentation and for the your team's work on all of this It was really helpful to see all of that in writing Um I do have a couple of questions concerns and thoughts for the ESRC And I'll preface this by saying that I am probably going to have to duck out of here uh no later than 11:15 So forgive me y'all I'm just going to kind of run through a bunch of things regardless of where they fit in the conversation Um couple different points Piece number one I think it's really important for permites to
103:30 - 104:00 remember that research like for this permit and license the research was included as part of the of the permit and license at the time that the HCP was approved at the cost of $100,000 That's fine That is what it is But that is not in lie of monitoring to assess the efficacy of the
104:00 - 104:30 mitigation in the first place So just be careful here and I saw that in this presentation And I just I didn't want to interrupt you as you were going through it but be really careful like the research money is inherently different separate apart and on top of any monitoring that needs to happen in order to assess the efficacy of the on the ground management activities It is not in lie of that Okay
104:30 - 105:00 Second piece I know that our teams had recommended uh instead of looking at bad activity and some of the research projects that is part of this to really look to focus research actions on um looking at reproductive activity at the site I understand that Chris and others identified that as relatively infeasible I I don't know where that conversation landed Forgive me for not being totally in the loop on where that conversation is but I would ask Karen maybe and this might be a Karina
105:00 - 105:30 question I would love someone else to weigh in on whether or not it really is not possible to to do a deep dive on reproductive activity at a site like this And I say that not because I think that the research being proposed is not valuable but because it it the reproductive activity is at the heart of a lot of our angst around bats particularly on Aahu And I would love to hear someone say with clarity that that
105:30 - 106:00 is not realistic for this site before we accept that as fact and switch gears and look at just activity as the metric or the focus of the research project I wanted to raise my hand on that I don't know how Hey Chris I'm sorry I I don't Yeah I don't know how you would measure reproductive activity I don't think we
106:00 - 106:30 have the tools for that I mean to fair fair and and I understand all that but at least just even looking for reproductive activity at the site the landscape is is so challenging um you know to be able to move across and identify or find individuals roosting throughout that area um is just unfeasible Um and to you know to be able to traverse and move um across the
106:30 - 107:00 landscape is you know radio tracking individuals uh to um you know try to find if they're roosting uh or where they're roosting and then you know um look at any type of you know success or maternity success or you know reproductive success uh and then have any type of sample size that would um you know support real conclusions is
107:00 - 107:30 it's just it's unrealistic Um can I ask a dumb question Do do chirps differ between adults and juveniles or bat calls Is there any difference in acoustic quality between the age groups Just curious because that's the main data everyone seems to be collecting So I'm just curious if that's any possibility of you know helping us get at this a little bit We can't differentiate that You know um the
107:30 - 108:00 the closest we've been able to get to is identifying like kind of like dialects Um Allison Poe did a thesis study identifying dialects from different areas um across the island with um you know probably at that point was like the the best equipment that was available in terms of acoustic recording Um but it's not just something that we can we're able to do Uh behaviors foraging behaviors um feeding different types of calls so
108:00 - 108:30 social calls things like that Um you know mixing that around the timing you can make maybe some light inferences but nothing really conclusive I mean there's it you know through the acoustic recordings right If there's multiple bats calling at the same you know at the same time you could potentially you know you you can identify when there's multiple bats at the same time And that you know at
108:30 - 109:00 certain times of year you could you know could infer that that could be you know uh a mother you know traveling with pups But you'd also say it could also be you know females and males interacting Yeah potentially So it's you can make inferences but Yeah But yeah I don't I I think I agree with
109:00 - 109:30 Chris that I don't think that there are tools in the toolbox right now to be identifying like reproductive um output in a in a area especially like this I mean for us on Big Island we did you know the study we did was you know a tremendous amount of effort um tagging bats and tracking to roosts and that you know like the number of you know maternity roots that we were able to find was was still really limited And that's you know being able to drive
109:30 - 110:00 around and all of that it's it's definitely a needle in a hay stack So okay I appreciate that additional assessment Karen And Chris thank you for the context here Mostly I just want to make sure that we're always cross-checking that before we jump to the next thing Okay Um couple other thoughts here One for arthropod biomass um I would really like to see the metric
110:00 - 110:30 of success there instead of being just overall biomass really target those prey species that we know are preferential to bats And I don't have that list in front of me but we have that data from work that's already been done And rather just looking at overall biomass let's look at the things that we know are going to be beneficial or that are are actual prey species for bats Um I will leave this to the statisticians but I am a little bit worried about whether or not the control sites really do anything of worth Um and
110:30 - 111:00 I don't know whether that means we don't have them or what we do but I'm just worried that the data will be so confounded that it'll be hard to draw any kind of inference from them given where they are relative to the treatment sites Uh I I don't Yeah I'll leave it there And then the last thing and this is a thing that my team briefed me on I am a little bit worried right now The outplanting is reliant on DOA for the plant propagation and I know that they
111:00 - 111:30 have that's a concern I would encourage you to really make sure that your success criteria are not um well not that they're not reliant on DOA but that you have a backup plan and that um DOA is not uh yeah that DOA is not going to be put in a compromising position by trying to
111:30 - 112:00 make this work So whether that means an additional DOA nursery whether that means finding a third party contractor to try and make up any delta whatever that looks like let's come up with a backup plan there so that DOA is not left holding um the strings on that Sorry for my laundry list in no particular order but appreciate you um hearing those concerns Thanks Michelle Um I guess could since
112:00 - 112:30 you're still here for a a little bit um Chris could you say something about the the biomass um the the arthropod biomass and um how we think about that relative to bat prey species Uh yeah So there there's been links I apologize if um when I was talking earlier my phone kept ringing It was FedEx So I apologize I had to mute myself and they're picking up a package So I apologize if somebody asked me something and I missed it uh earlier Um
112:30 - 113:00 no no you're all good Chris So um just in the I guess in the context of biomass you know there have been links that demonstrate um you know uh increases in in insect biomass are are linked to um increases in bad activity or foraging behaviors Um is there anything more more specific or general Yeah Michelle was just saying you know rather than having a general um
113:00 - 113:30 success criteria of or talking about biomass in general to make sure that we're really um paying attention and targeting the species that we know bats um forage on So kind of separation there right So um you know we we talk about biomass We do um you know we we there so there's a couple things there's there's been an interest to um you know one in having knowledge of the of of the species diet or you know the bat's diet
113:30 - 114:00 what's available for the bat as well as you know using this as an opportunity to also understand uh the arthropod diversity or the you know arthropod um you know tax on you know out there uh in general Um so you know we are mostly interested in biomass of insects as it relates to bat prey Um but we will use this as an opportunity to look at you know what we can um where it applies you
114:00 - 114:30 know generally in the area um with some limitations due to you know the sampling regime which it will be you know using malay traps and that again comes down to you know what we're able to do in this area you know in terms of um you know light trapping we can't have teams out there at night um and traverse this area uh have multiple sampling locations in night you know in areas that need to be helicoptered in or things like that So
114:30 - 115:00 our ability to kind of really work in this in you know in the way that we've worked in kind of some other areas or you know proposed working in some other areas is is really limited Um so we are going to be using um you know kind of more passive sampling than than active sampling So Chris this would take it down to order Correct Order you know order We you may be able to get it to to some family but mostly you know you're
115:00 - 115:30 probably definitely your higher level Um you know we are building um you know insect collections uh uh ID collections uh for uh you know other areas that are are somewhat close uh to to this mitigation site Um so they may you know um be usable um or apply just in some context um but you know there is a level of damage that um gets applied to the insects when you're you know using
115:30 - 116:00 malayise traps especially over longer periods of time um and there's a difficulty in terms of you know identifying um you know higher level taxonomy I see Karen nodding so um But Karen anything you want to add there I I mean I think I think you know getting to the order level largely you know helps us get to the the bat diet
116:00 - 116:30 pieces So I think you know it's that um I guess one thing with the malays traps Chris can you get do termites survive that The Malaysia Oh yes Yes that termites and lace wings Um yeah Um I have to review my list for more extensive
116:30 - 117:00 Yeah Um yeah And I mean I think that's you know given the logistics and that and I'm Yeah I mean the time involved getting at a higher level is also just tremendous So um but yeah I think that you can largely address the whether there's increases in bat you know bat specific diet um components can be answered at the order
117:00 - 117:30 level but I I agree with I think it was Kavika brought it up earlier um just like kind of laying out um when you're I guess when you're uh dealing with the biomass is addressing the the bat specific parts not just biomass as a general that's that's really important Karen I uh this is Jason Da I didn't
117:30 - 118:00 want to interrupt you guys' conversation here but if Chris can just introduce him himself and his affiliation just so everyone knows who's uh speaking if that can happen really quick Please I'm sorry Me Yes Okay Sorry Uh my name is Christopher Todd I'm a wildlife biologist um specializing uh in bats and hory bats um here in Hawaii and I work for Tet Thank you Chris I appreciate that Yeah
118:00 - 118:30 And then if I can I know Michelle just left but I'll just pick up real quick One thing I'll say quickly about the last thing the mesh said with respect to um outplanting stock and and reliance on DOA hear that 100% and that's again something um you know if if if these uh plans get approved and we're moving forward I mean that'll be you know day one activities will be to figure out what's what is the planting plan what's
118:30 - 119:00 the pallet and then what's the stock and we would definitely have a backup plan um not not trying to put all the requirements on DOA here Hi Um aloha folks A quick comment from staff Uh just um tacking this on to the previous conversation y'all were just having about um identifying insects and whatnot Uh we had some uh feedback from Janice Matsunaga um who's the state entomologist um heads Hawaiian vertebrate program Um regarding
119:00 - 119:30 identification uh she did have a note Um these notes were provided to Tetratech uh stating that um I'm going to read word for word Tracking only the orders of arthropods does not give very much valuable data on diversity of arthropod communities especially if only collecting individuals above 5 millimeters So I just wanted to u make sure that those uh comments were brought to light Thank you on that Um so I we did uh we I don't know
119:30 - 120:00 if it was specifically addressed in the in the text uh or in a comment but so that how we kind of address that was um you know after our site visit Jesse the realization of what we were actually able to do uh the diversity aspect is kind of taken out It's more more focused on biomass really light trapping I think is where you want to be able to get you know that higher level um taxonomy and
120:00 - 120:30 that order uh you know beyond order um and so we're not doing that so we're really focusing on biomass changes in biomass um you know getting it to the you know the order and then you know as far down as we can and you know providing uh that diversity aspect if and where possible So again you know if we have information that is goes beyond the bat diet you know in terms of the general
120:30 - 121:00 area you know providing that um but you know focusing mostly on biomass Uh understood So kind of recognizing the difference between um what we're looking for with bats versus um what we would be looking for with um entomologists and um insects in general Yeah Yeah So focusing mostly on biomass and then you know if and where we can uh looking at diversity
121:00 - 121:30 Understood But knowing there's going to be limitations due to the sampling uh methodology Understood There's a few more hands up Uh I'm not sure if Melissa or Karen is heard but um Melissa you have something Thank you Oh and just as a mechanistic thing um the hand to the furthest left of your screen is usually the one raised first and then on to the left So that's it's a Zoom thing Um anyways uh so as as
121:30 - 122:00 a a person broadly engaged in conservation um research I'm I really appreciate seeing the effort um at not just removing invasive plants but also outplanting native plants and then looking at the system response for the insects That's great and in in contrast to some of the other ones we've seen where they're just doing removals but not out planning anything to to actually
122:00 - 122:30 restore the habitat So that's great Um and I think in seeing like if I were to design something for just a restoration project I defer to those in the room who who specialize on that and and there's a lot of great stuff going on in this plan So again great job um wearing the hat of a person sitting on this committee and recognizing that this is done specifically to help inform future HCPs I'm wondering if you can tell me
122:30 - 123:00 how we might use the outcome of your study to make decisions in the future And I'm looking for something super specific right Not just generally oh now we know what they're eating or now we know it increases food I'm not sure if you want to include in your answer that we know that food limitation is actually something hindering their reproduction and survival or anything like that but how would we specifically use this to make decisions in the future And if you
123:00 - 123:30 can draw a super clear line that would be helpful Yeah I'll I'll start And I see that Chris has his hand up so maybe I'll I'll start and then Chris might want to add to it I mean what I think about Melissa is um you know as we do these I'll just call them mitigation projects for bats um you know um around the islands uh I I think there's an open question about whether restoration and management activities are actually benefiting bats And so that's what we're trying to get at here And we're getting at it through are we changing the um are
123:30 - 124:00 we changing the arthropod you know what arthropods are on the landscape in response to um management and outplanting Um and that's basically that's basically it And now you know there's a there there is a um notably a bit of a leap there in terms of okay what we're seeing with respect to the the prey base and then what we're seeing from the bat response But I think um having an understanding of whether whether or not these management activities really are changing the prey
124:00 - 124:30 base and in how and how they're changing the prey base could be really valuable in future decisions um as it relates to what is bat mitigation You know um Chris do you want to add anything on there Um yeah I mean you know a lot of this stuff we we don't know um you know what happens when you go and you remove you know monotypic stand of forest what happens to the insect bio like the biomass and the diversity what what
124:30 - 125:00 happens to the prey base for bats right there So you know in this context um you know if you're going to be doing management um and if you see that you know you remove this stand and you you know remove you know it causes you know a reduction in insect prey Um and then as you take steps to reforest an out plant you know do you see those changes um you know over time
125:00 - 125:30 and and and what can you expect to see in the future even in terms of the time scales right um you know if if this is something that's that's even feasible uh you know to do for future projects um I think there's a lot to learn um in terms of you know where we are and what can be done in the future or how this information can be applied in the future Thank you And and as a broad ecologist
125:30 - 126:00 if I'm writing a proposal for NSF or NIWIFF or something like that this is all great but in this specific context that we're sitting today and using this for future things you all know because of who your paycheck comes from that eventually this has to be turned into numbers By how much does this increase the bat population By how many does this make up for bats killed Can you tell me a little bit about how your research will help us
126:00 - 126:30 get to those numbers as opposed to broadly something that we'd be interested in as ecologists and conservationists but it doesn't help us get to the mitigation question Well I think again and Chris I don't know if your hand is still up to respond but I'll maybe I'll start and then Chris can weigh in on I mean I think Melissa that's you know the the by how much question is always going to be out there and that and that frankly from my perspective has more to do with our ability to count you know to count bats um in a fixed area and see how they
126:30 - 127:00 respond um as much as it does you know how is the management changing things on the on the landscape So I would say this research is is less connected to the you know how much of an increase are we seeing but it is definitely valuable because it's connected to how are we you know are we actually improving bat are we actually improving habitat for bats in the location Um and then by by extension how are we seeing a bat response um you know increase in bat use
127:00 - 127:30 in an area as a result So the the by how much question is is always complicated just based on you know the technology available to actually detect and count bats in a in a given area admittedly Yeah Okay Uh I think just the the closing comment I'll say on that is that I I recognize as a person who does wildlife research I recognize limitations in
127:30 - 128:00 study capacity and tools and technology and all of that but I think in this particular context um there's a tradeoff between saying things at a big scale and with numbers that people like to see and all of that um and the quality of the research toward asking the particular questions that are really hanging us up in this context And the questions that are really hanging us up
128:00 - 128:30 is we don't know which sources of mortality there are that we can actually control And we don't know which things are holding back reproductive success that we can actually take action to mitigate for Those are the crux of the things that are getting us stuck Sorry this this emotion is not aimed at you It's just frustration that we have to have the same dang conversation every time we meet on a bat mitigation project We don't know sources of mortality that we can do something about
128:30 - 129:00 or Yeah And we we don't know the things hindering reproductive success And if we don't answer those specific questions or tie these other broader ecological questions to those specific things then we're no better off in the future for our decision-m We can't make any better decision for making up for the losses of bats And again I recognize this this was written 10 years ago um before most of us sat on this committee and that um the
129:00 - 129:30 pace of research often doesn't keep up with the pace of um inferred knowledge or whatever But um anyways I'm I I want to just again be a broken record on this set of things uh recognizing that you're doing the best you can under the um contract that was written 10 years ago the permit that was written 10 years ago but moving forward we've got to make sure that we're tying these things to the things that are that we can do better on reproductive success and we can do better on making up for other sources of mortality or else we're
129:30 - 130:00 never going to get ahead of this issue So anyways my two cents on that So I I agree with I agree with some of that Um you know there are some things that we may not know but then there are some things that we do know So um you know uh hory bats uh on the mainland have been shown um you know that you know maternity you know females when they're pregnant uh um you know they shorten
130:00 - 130:30 their their traveling distances from their roost sites to their foraging foraging areas right So in that context you know having um you know increasing uh you know uh foraging sites uh uh you know especially around areas where you know individuals can roost uh is something that that can be positive Um if we know that you know bats are moving to higher elevations during the you know winter months uh to you know
130:30 - 131:00 induce torper uh and you know periodically coming out for foraging bouts uh shorter distances that they need to travel uh to find food resources is a benefit All those things help reproductive success So you know I think there are some things that we can use um in terms of how we approach some of this Um so that seems reasonable Um I think
131:00 - 131:30 we need we'd want to see a outpanting plan that that there's a clear line between the outpanting plan and something you just said I think that might give us a little bit more comfort What do you think about that Melissa Sure You say sure but you're going like this with your head So I learned and there's a training that teaches me that that's not a real yes
131:30 - 132:00 I think Melissa is saying that's a part of the story but not the not the whole not the whole solution Yeah I recognize it's expensive and time consuming to actually count bats or actually monitor what's going on with reproduction I recognize that Um and that you know as Michelle said $100,000 it I I know how far that money goes It doesn't go far So I get that Um so our hands are tied in
132:00 - 132:30 this particular scenario And I'm essentially just wanting to make sure we go on record as saying I recognize that they're doing the best they can under the the particular parameters of this permit Uh but since we only meet but every few months on that particular issues we want to make sure that we're highlighting where we need to go while recognizing where we've come from So that's me shaking my head while while saying it Well I know there's hands up and and sorry but I think there might be a way
132:30 - 133:00 we can thread the needle here recognizing there's only $100,000 I think we could frame um you know I think there's a way to frame it where this is still an unknown This is what they're going to do The monitoring might help us to figure out if we are indeed increasing emerging habitat at higher elevations that kind of thing Um it's it's not what you want but I think we can frame it in a way that gets us maybe half a step
133:00 - 133:30 closer not a full step but uh Karen do you have something Yeah I I guess um I this is sort of I think the control piece is important for right for answering the the to understand if this is actually going is actually benefiting bats And so I think I I guess I'd like the
133:30 - 134:00 applicants to consider further ways to in include a control piece if the if they're not able to con include control plots like just outside the fence or in the you well not just outside you know at a distance outside the fence like have you guys explored like using the west data or plots in other areas that are that could be used as control sites that are not necessarily
134:00 - 134:30 within these these specific like kind of management area or adjacent to the management area but maybe are in similar elevations and habitats in the in the area like where yeah I don't know if west had some plots close to close to these areas because I I just think we I mean we know right that these bats forage in a variety of habitats right They they're foraging in invasive
134:30 - 135:00 dominated areas and in mixed forest and in you know plantations and all these areas So it's like it I think to Melissa's point where it's yeah this seems like a really good restoration plan and I think that there's you know a lot of good overall ecological benefit for the this work that's being done but to really tie it to the bats we need to be understanding of this change from an invasive dominated forest to something better is is better for the
135:00 - 135:30 bats And I I don't know that we we're getting to that without having some control area something to compare to Yeah Karen I'll just um take a shot at an answer there and and Chris may have some broader context than I do on this Um I don't think we've dug deeply into that Thinking about you know control areas further away or representative areas that could be included in you know kind of a broader study Um certainly something we could do Um I think we've always been you know because we were
135:30 - 136:00 focused on change in you know in arthropod biomass we were we were also um you know trying to control you know control for some variability there in terms of what we might be able to say if we were looking at control sites that were much further away Um but I get your point about wanting to be able to look at bat activity at control sites Um so that's certainly something we could you know consider I just without having done
136:00 - 136:30 that I don't really know I guess I couldn't commit to whether or not that's possible or useful at this point in time But I do think that um if that information you know does exist in a way that is usable I could imagine as we go through this study or you know through this research um process you know um that whatever whatever information exists out there from other locations that that is relevant I mean that's the kind of stuff
136:30 - 137:00 that we could pull into the the ultimate you know report and and hopefully a publication at at some point in time for contact So there there could be some it could be both I guess is what I'm saying and that was I know not very committal on my part but that's only because I don't have a deep knowledge of what what's available um in those in those other studies So and sorry Karen did you have any other followup on that
137:00 - 137:30 I I guess the thing would just be like it I mean it seems like there's so much that you guys have left to figure I I understand the the point that you can't like implement your plan until a plan is approved but yet it seems like there's so many unknowns in the plan because of the logistical difficulties So it's like you know it seems like in a you know after your plan is approved there we would need to have some sort of revisit to see if
137:30 - 138:00 it if the goals of the approved plan are actually going to be met Um and I guess the control plot would be part of that process Maybe Chris you had your hand up Sorry Mosa Chris had did you have something to include there I just I just wanted to um you know I just wanted to thank I like I liked your your comment about you know the host plant species and things like
138:00 - 138:30 that Um you know there is there is still a lot that's unknown in terms of um you know what what diet papers we have um and and the host plants Um it'll be interesting I think USGS is is working on a publication uh if I'm correct um on this maybe um but it would be you know good to to um I think speak with Janice u Matsunaga um and you know to see if
138:30 - 139:00 there is anything in their database um that helps support um you know insect species with host plants um you know that can that can you know worked into this So I I do appreciate that So uh Chris sorry just to clarify your last comment So you're interested in potential resources um from HIPP program that would have connections between um certain arthopod species and host plants
139:00 - 139:30 Yeah Yeah Um you know yeah So you know I with another project um you know I I see that there's a reporting spreadsheet for for DOA that has um you know different insects that have been collected uh and you know identifies um host plants or host species that you know there's insects were collected off of Um to my understanding is that that's
139:30 - 140:00 that sheet is for only native species Um but it would be nice to reach out and see if there is a database um you know for non-natives Um you know the the the literature we have now is is more general um kind of refers to you know legumes or you know some some species of ka things like that um but it's it's more general in terms of host plant species or types Gotcha Um I can work on uh sleuththing
140:00 - 140:30 for a resource like that on DOA side That'd be awesome That'd be great Um okay I just I just wanted to close again keeping in mind the ongoing conversations we've been having I I hear you saying that one of the goals is to draw them in to um a space that has both foraging and roosting habitat so they don't have to fly very far Um is there any effort at um if one is
140:30 - 141:00 there barbed wire at the site which I think is something we've all agreed is uh something that would be problematic and then two uh is there any plan for including um predator control at the site Um so those two questions So um and actually there may be others on the phone that want to weigh in in terms of fence and so forth Um the um there is you know there is a unulate fence around the property um and the
141:00 - 141:30 pigs have been removed from inside the fence Um I don't I'm pretty sure it's not barbed wire but um someone else can correct me if I'm wrong there Um and then the rest of the areas you know it's uh wide open and wild country So it's not like uh other situations where you you have a more managed landscape where you might have barbwire out there Again others can correct me if I'm wrong on that Um and so I'm sorry Melissa what was the second part of your uh whether
141:30 - 142:00 predator control was included So if the goal is to kind of create great reproductive habitat um where there would be longer roosting and maternal roosting taking place um that is a a known source of mortality from studies elsewhere for tree roosting bats solitary tree roosting bats that um uh predation by cats and other things can be problematic So it's just removing while it might be rare a known source of mortality
142:00 - 142:30 Yeah Well um I don't know if Jesse or or others want to say anything about the the situation out there Um I guess what I what I would think the way I would think about that at this point in time um and and again I'll defer to others if if needed but would be if we you know got down the line Melissa and and identified or or you know had a pretty good a pretty good assumption that there was roosting happening maternity roost based on the acoustic activity that we're seeing and all the stuff that
142:30 - 143:00 everybody talked about um that might be something we might want to consider And if we were noticing you know predator and knew that there were predators out there that might be something we might want to consider in an adaptive way Um I don't know that we would want to do it from the jump but Chris or others Jesse might have something to say about that knowing the landscape maybe better than I do Uh yes uh Troy I'll slide in real fast Um Jesse Adams here uh wearing my KMWP hat now Um several years ago uh we did
143:00 - 143:30 see sign of mongoose at the summit Um but that was uh many years in the past Um I do know that Susan Chen a wahoo botnist is concerned about um rats on the landscape Um and just kind of the anecdotal evidence of um we have trees that produce a lot of propigules and we're not seeing a huge amount of regeneration and is that perhaps due to the presence of rats on the landscape uh Army Natural Resource did Army Natural Resource Program um in the YNI did do
143:30 - 144:00 largecale um A24 grids and they were noticing with those large scale grids that there was a fair amount of recruitment that did happen after they deployed those Um so that could be indicative of rat pressures Um so there's undoubtedly rats up there Um there could be some mong Um I've never heard of cats Um but I would maybe defer to I believe Craig is on the call um from KMWP if he has any other additional
144:00 - 144:30 insights Yeah Um thanks Jesse This is Craig at KMWP I'm um I'm the a new manager here so I'm getting up to speed I've been here for about a week or so Uh and your question is about predation uh for on seeds for dispersal for plants that could support foraging and no sorry that's not my question Um they we're
144:30 - 145:00 grasping at straws here for other sources of mortality in bats that could be bindigated for Right So okay In this particular context the whole point is that you have the major source of mortality for bats that's known published across the literature is wind turbines That's what's killing them That's what's calling it causing endangerment And so you've got other known sources of potential mortality or impacts such as insecticides Uh so secondary toxicity kinds of things Um
145:00 - 145:30 barbed wire is a known source of mortality And then um there is quite a bit of literature showing that elsewhere around the world you get um solitary tree roosting bats eaten by things like barn owls uh cats rats So things that your generalist carnivores are going to also eat bats when they come across them Uh it's going to be rare for tree roosting solitary tree roosting bats but it does occur And again we're grasping at straws for how can we make up for
145:30 - 146:00 these losses elsewhere So in a mitigation project like this where we're trying to improve habitat to draw them in the question is um are you doing the best you can to control for all other sources of mortality And thus you should not have barbed wire at the site and ideally you would have predator control of uh things that yes impact habitat and it broadly improves it but also would impact um
146:00 - 146:30 potentially bat mortality rare but could it impact it So I I do have to um respond this because I know this is um it it continues to be brought up and um so hory bats are a solitary tree roosting species Um they roost in foliage Um they're not a cavity roosting species um anything that would be considered a
146:30 - 147:00 maternity roost uh is still separated by you know some feet or a distance So you're not having congregations of of a large number of bats uh in an area Um when you see uh predation by cats and owls in all those papers that are on the DOA website you have species that roost or species that forage on the ground right Come in direct contact with that
147:00 - 147:30 with cats Uh cavity roosting species that uh roost uh in in groups uh uh small individuals uh or larger groups um you do not have in one of the papers um there's even the first paper in Canada has a list of species on the left across the top how they're all died how they were the the cause of mortality hy bats
147:30 - 148:00 all of them have cats except for hy bats and all the other bats they exhibit behaviors either roosting or or foraging behaviors uh that put them at risk that puts them into contact with bats um or you know with with cats Uh the papers that are provided uh as um you know with for owls that are a cause of mortality are uh in situations where you have larger numbers of individuals that are leaving um you know uh foraging areas
148:00 - 148:30 things like that Um so again the the papers that are being you know um provided uh as this argument for you know management here they're not appropriate They do not apply to bats in Hawaii I am working up a more formal response on this so we don't have to continue arguing uh about this or having
148:30 - 149:00 this discussion uh in each meeting Um but I would like to have you know a longer conversation about this at some point Yeah And I'm happy to look back across those When I pulled those down I pretty carefully checked for hory bats being mentioned specifically but I'm happy to take a second look And and again I understand that it's rare Totally get it Um I think the broader concern is at this point we don't have many
149:00 - 149:30 things to show uh that we can do to make up for other known sources of mortality And so on this committee I'm just trying to say here we we have a lot of pressure to approve these permits We have a lot of pressure to approve these reports that come in each year and yet not a single one shows that they're actually increasing survival or reproduction And so um I'm grasping at straws here trying to find other kinds of potential sources of mortality that could be mitigated for
149:30 - 150:00 to help make up for these losses So um if this is one less thing that's a tool in the toolbox of folks who are trying to mitigate so be it right if that's not something that's going to help uh then we're back to curtailment and just reduce the number you're killing because uh you can't make up for it apparently So um anyways just kind of struggling here on on how you folks can make up
150:00 - 150:30 Melissa did you freeze You froze You froze Looks like a few other people did too So well maybe uh Chris
150:30 - 151:00 can So what are your thoughts on rat predation on hory bats Europe and and can I just add in on the rat story up up in that area It's been years since I've been in Po but I spent a bunch of time up there working on snail projects and I know for sure there's rats there's mongoose there's no question there's probably cats cruising on the trails as well Um
151:00 - 151:30 but in the context I think of this mitigation plan along with predator control potentially being a benefit to directly on bats there is no question that predator control is going to be a benefit for plant restoration um along with whatever else is out there um in the bigger picture So as a grander kind of look at this management area which is part of the story of the
151:30 - 152:00 complexity of so many people being involved in managing an area predator control I think would be an important piece Um along with that I just wanted to comment and I recognize the importance of control plots Um Karen I know but again we're talking about a heavily managed area between OISK um the KWP DOA when you start putting control plots
152:00 - 152:30 into managed areas I get really concerned about things not happening in control plots that might quickly spill out of control plots Um so I just you know I would be more interested in hearing from the managers on the ground about those kinds of things And then I also you know recognize again that this this plan has been in the works for a decade but we
152:30 - 153:00 have so many other examples of bat mitigation projects that actually focus on non-native habitats I mean we had one on Maui talking about the importance of cow dong pulling in insects So I just you know I know we've been dealt this set of cards Um but I think you know the rat situation no matter where you are dealing in native
153:00 - 153:30 habitats is going to be a benefit So that's just my thoughts We have a couple hands up Uh Chris did you have I don't think I I don't think I loaded but Kavika asked me about rap predation on on bats Um you there's I I have I will be honest I have not I have started going through like the the diet
153:30 - 154:00 papers of of rats um you know there is a a small window um where you know uh females are pregnant So if a bat was to if a rat was to come across a bat the bat would probably just fly away um if it so the risk period would be where you have you know a female um with juveniles that um are nonvolent And so uh you know that window of time is you know when they could be potentially you know at
154:00 - 154:30 risk from from rats um you know if they would move away or crawl away you know I I don't know Um if they couldn't fly um but you know there is a small window that would be a period of risk um you know for rats But I again I don't I have not seen yet in the papers any any diet studies that have um you know resulted in in bats in their diet or
154:30 - 155:00 identified you know bat remains in the diet Thank you Lindsay you had your hand up Oh you're on mute Lindsay Sorry I just want to comment on the rat thing Um first of all a rat predated a bat It's going to be a very rare event in the life cycle of that rat because the bats themselves are so rare So I don't know that we'd ever see it
155:00 - 155:30 show up in a rat diet But we do know that rats predate all sorts of things that live in trees that are at rare density including things that are flighted There are a lot of birds even when they're not on the nest it'll be taken It's opportunistic So I think it'd be really tough to quantify predation rates on bats but we should not assume that it's not happening based on what we collectively know of the impact of rats What we do know is that rats really impact invertebrate density We have data
155:30 - 156:00 from this and showing before and after rat removal in a lot of places They also impact the habitat And given that this management is focused on indirect measures of improving the habitat through arthrobod and prey abundance I think rats are actually a really critically important part of that because even if we improve the habitat for them with outplanting and weeding and all of that if we're not removing the threats to some of those which are almost certainly rats we know that arthods make up a good portion of their
156:00 - 156:30 diet based on Aaron Shieldsworth um I think you're going to see diminished success And then I know the ESRC is kind of split which is um probably challenging for people to reconcile but I do agree with Karen on this If we're trying to get an implementation like a an idea of numbers of how we're benefiting the species right now this is an indirect mitigation in a way we need to know how much the management is actually improving the food source And really the only way to get at that is
156:30 - 157:00 some sort of control plot Otherwise it's it's not super defensible scientifically at least from where I stand So just the overall summary I support control plots because I think it's one of the few ways we're going to get at what this management is doing in terms of increase And I think the rat issue is much larger than you know as um oh my gosh I'm spacing out right now as it was brought up earlier than just on the bats themselves It's the whole ecosystem and habitat that we're trying to restore
157:00 - 157:30 Okay Well um I don't know if we're doing a recommendation slide but it sounds like everybody on the ESRC is agreeing that some level of predator control is appropriate if not for um direct predation than indirect predation Um so that's what I'm hearing Yeah Um I'm gonna go ahead and open up for public comment and then we can go to our
157:30 - 158:00 recommen recommendation slide at that Okay Karen has her hand up one before we go public Oh okay Karen sorry Um I think I guess one clarification on the potential control plots right They they can be outside of the management area I guess to kind of get at Lisa's concern right is that I think the my understanding is that like on these the the figures that are in the plan right all of the management is happening
158:00 - 158:30 within the fence line Yes that's correct So and the control plots I guess the idea is that those would be on the other side of the fence line where there's not management happening That's correct I guess I would hope that that would alleviate the concern about it potentially affecting you know like people you know restor bigger scale restoration plans Does that is that right Lisa Is that was your concern of like SCA having actions scaled back within a management area
158:30 - 159:00 just to have a control plot Yeah and and I just would lean on the managers of the area to be sure that they're comfortable which it you know it sounds like there's been a great batch of meetings this past year I've just you know seen situations um in other projects where sometimes those control plots in the end can can be challenging
159:00 - 159:30 for land management actions that you know are are necessary or sometimes desired um but they you know can't happen because it's a research plot that um you know and it it's it's very important I just wanted to make sure that the land managers of the area are comfortable with that and that would be mostly DOA um at this point and and Lisa if I would just add oh sorry yeah and
159:30 - 160:00 Lisa I would just add and we could we can we could simply make that a criteria for where we locate you know the control plots in other words I mean there's logistical issues But then you know just making sure that we have a a good understanding of the long-term management goals whatever they might be for those areas and that the control plots factor in appropriately So that's easy to do Yep Uh hey folks Jesse Adams here Um just want to let in real quick with a comment um kind of backing up what Lisa is saying about moving those plots Uh Susan Cheng Aahu Botnist communicated earlier
160:00 - 160:30 uh this day to me that um there are some clusters of rare plants that are near that lower fence line Um and those need to be uh given the appropriate breath away from them So um just um agreeing with what Lisa is saying about it would be good to give some space for those rare plants and other things as well Yep Great into public
160:30 - 161:00 Thank you everyone Jesse it looks like looks like Serene has her hand up So we can go ahead with the KMWP question or comment Hi I my name is Serena I'm with KMWP I wanted um also to add in uh along with Lisa's point that um and just maybe for general knowledge that we actually have management areas that we have managed over the past 25 years as well as um
161:00 - 161:30 vegetation control efforts and things like that actually outside of the fence as well So um I don't see those represented in any mapping Um it's a bit a point of frustration for me as the GIS analyst uh for KMWP to see such a sort of skewed view of KMWP's work and effort It has no date range It doesn't have any context It's just kind of like a bunch of points thrown on a map Um so I just
161:30 - 162:00 wanted to make sure that there is some pointing out of the fact that um some of that information is distorted great deal and that we actually do have management that we have done and vegetation control and monitoring that we have done outside of the fenced area of po management zones Yeah And and Serene just to take that real quick Um obviously in the plan with with the focus being in the Pomoo we we
162:00 - 162:30 obviously you know truncated the data to focus on the POMO Um we can happily you know expand that to outside the fence but the the reason why it wasn't included was simply just because the the plan was focused on the POMO Sorry Craig you were going to maybe add something there Uh not to that particular point but I have other things I'd like to mention as well that build upon what Serene's describing And uh uh as I review the management
162:30 - 163:00 plan some observations I just like to share These have to do with contracting items but I think there's a need to consider to update the budget Currently the Hilo Ops for example I think is low When we send a field crew team out we're sending about eight people not uh two or three people to effectively use the resources the team and the HILO ops And that requires about six HILO uh packs
163:00 - 163:30 load flights per field operation day three in and three out Uh so that's a further area I know it has to do more with contracting And then uh also the uh to update the salary infringe rates maybe include yearly increases across eight years would be other things to consider The uh schedule management plan schedule would be of interest to KWMP and also having measurable goals for vegetative monitoring to confirm the acreage and specific details about the
163:30 - 164:00 vegetation survey and monitoring such as acre survey type level of detail those kind of things uh and also measurable goals for weed control uh plots versus transexs and details there The uh other things that I want to um just share briefly is that for monitoring and vegetation control uh KMWP has work areas that they currently uh manage and we would want to make sure that those don't overlap with
164:00 - 164:30 uh areas for this this this current proposal that we we don't you know double double down on management area locations and then uh for evaluative monitor monitoring uh at this time KMWP I don't think is able to provide baseline bat prey monitoring we don't have an entomologist and similar for bat acoustic activity uh we don't have the skill set or equipment right now for to
164:30 - 165:00 to set up acoustic monitors and maintain them however we can definitely recommend location sites so this does some of the uh things I just want to share with the group mahalo And if I could just weigh in quickly on some of those things One is um Craig thanks for that And I know the the helicopter costume particularly I know is an ever evolving thing and Jesse and I talked about that last week and I know that that that's something that is on our mind as we you move forward here Um
165:00 - 165:30 and obviously will be baked into the contracting And then um I think with respect to the the consideration about location of management uh management activities as it relates to ongoing work um you know that's really where the the kind of the ongoing coordination and the annual um uh the annual planning will be happening Um so we'll be for sure in lock step on all that kind of stuff Um and then there was one other thing I was
165:30 - 166:00 going to mention and I forgotten it Um anyway it may come to me later but I appreciate that Yep Um so we're getting a little into the public comment period a tiny bit here with with some of the folks here Um so I just want to make a note of that that um we're we're we're basically moved into the public comment period at this time So if there's any other um comments from
166:00 - 166:30 the public um you know this can also be sent to our email Um we're going to just look on Zoom and see if we have any comments on Zoom No comments on Zoom No comments on Zoom And what about our email Nothing on our email So if there's any other public comments that uh for folks that are here uh on the Zoom meeting we can uh stand by for a second Uh and I would say for ESRC2 if
166:30 - 167:00 there's anything else that you guys would like to share we can kind of just do this together right now since we're it's where we're at Jason might I say one more thing I remembered what I was going to say from a second ago Um one other note Craig that you had was um uh KMWP's limitations with respect to uh insect ID or entomology and um bat acoustic work And the the way that we have it set up right now is that that's work that Tetratech would be supplementing So we
167:00 - 167:30 we certainly do have the expertise to deploy bat detectors and and run the analysis on those and then um to to deploy the malaise traps and do the insect analysis So right now the idea is that we would be supplementing with that doing that piece of the support um and then if that evolves in the future and you all you know have those capabilities we can discuss that from a contracting perspective but um that was the expectation Sorry if that wasn't clear Thanks Appreciate the clarification
167:30 - 168:00 Thank you everyone Um before we roll into looking at our recommendations um do you guys want to take a break real quick or do you want to roll right into the recommendation uh slide update This is to the ESRC I'm on the fence honestly so I
168:00 - 168:30 abstain Does anybody feel strongly one way or another Is is Melissa back as a back She just got back Okay Sorry Uh my computer decided that it needed to update right then Um do you guys want to take a break for 10 minutes and we'll come back and we can go into recommendations Sorry Do we have one more item after this or is this it for today This is it
168:30 - 169:00 for today then I would suggest we pull through Okay Breaker right now I'll defer I'm going to let you guys make this decision here Uh Lindsay has a hard stop in three minutes So let's get through as much as we can Okay go ahead Let's go Mine are pretty easy It's the predator
169:00 - 169:30 control that we should consider consider doing um rat control specifically to make sure that keeps arthropod abundance up and that we still should consider some level of having a control site ideally outside of the management area so that we get at some of those metrics of success I think some of that yeah it's already captured on bullet point 2 for the control plots and it's also captured in the plan also
169:30 - 170:00 being outside the management area but I also second you on the predator control stuff I think that's a very important component I don't have anything to add
170:00 - 170:30 I would just add that a continued often and regular communication amongst all the parties doing management out there
170:30 - 171:00 Uh uh sorry Lisa can we have that again Please continue I would just say to ensure that there is consistent and regular communication between all of the management parties working out there Thank you Um uh I'd like to present um uh potential path forwards uh to the ESRC committee members um only purely
171:00 - 171:30 suggesting this Um for our Cahuku plans um those folks uh came before you um with a management plan seeking approval Um approval was granted but they were required to develop and issue an implementation plan Um that implementation plan came later Um there could potentially be a deadline that could be placed on that implementation plan Um but just as uh potentially um a step forwards uh if you folks wanted to
171:30 - 172:00 pursue um a potential vote of um approval with amendments Um again just a suggestion Um sorry clarification Are you talking about this one Napua Makoney or are you talking about Kohuku Sorry I got confused while you were talking Go ahead Okay Um Melissa we were talking about this plan He was just making a reference to another plan where we allowed a
172:00 - 172:30 implementation um plan to be submitted after the approval of the plan So we approved the plan and then there's an implementation plan that would come in forth in front of the ESRC to to be able to see how everything is going to be laid out Uh Lisa Lindsay Kavika how do you feel about that Is Lindy still
172:30 - 173:00 here I think we lost Lindsay So Lisa and Kavika Um I got distracted for a minute so I don't know what was said last I'll let Lisa go I mean I I didn't I hadn't really crossed my mind in terms of that Um I understand it I just worry about plans on plans of plans but it's not required Uh I think we can move forward with what
173:00 - 173:30 we have here these amendments and and and move forward We were just throwing that out there that some similar things like that have happened in the past not that has to be coming it has to go in front of the SRC again It just uh something that was provided to the SRC at a later date um showing how implementation was going to happen So um not required but we're just putting that out there Um but I think we can um kind of move forward with what we have here
173:30 - 174:00 to make a vote on um on the project Sorry to interrupt Sorry Jason Just so I'm sorry It's like it's approaching lunch Everything's feeling clear as mud So um you're you're essentially if we support this we're saying if these things are implemented into the plan we're fine with the plan moving forward right Essentially that's what it means when we say this looks good It's if the
174:00 - 174:30 um the participant says "Yeah I don't I don't want to do most of this." And then it essentially like that's when it comes back to us because they're like "Yeah I know we talked about this but I don't want to do it." Am I understanding kind of the two pathways forward as far as like we approve it and everything moves forward and it all gets implemented good to go We don't have to see it again Yep There's three there's three pathways forward There's a vote to approve there's a vote to approve with amendments and or reject So we have
174:30 - 175:00 three pathways And so what we're talking about here is approve with amendments if everyone agrees Right Okay And what was Sorry what was being asked for as an alternative What was we we weren't putting out an alternative We were just uh uh fairing that um some projects have developed implementation plans after an approval of a plan like
175:00 - 175:30 this to where um they they laid out they provided to the ESRC information on how they're going to actually yeah do the on the ground stuff and and and an implementation plan for uh additional guide um information on how things are going to be conducted So um I think it's something that you guys had asked at one point for another project before and so I think we were just kind of throwing that out there but if that makes sense I don't know
175:30 - 176:00 Jesse if you want to ex elaborate but uh yeah I'm I'm real sorry I feel like I fumbled this situation pretty bad Um I No I can add in that was something Kahuku did you know they contractors text check provided and I thought it was really helpful but sounds like it might not be in this context So that's all that's all Thank you Um I I guess I'm not totally clear on what what's up on the slide relative to
176:00 - 176:30 to amendments and and the next step So if if Tetratech comes back or I guess it it be the the wind energy company comes back and says that they will incorporate all of these and then DOA then looks at the the plan to see if it fits I mean something like the the predator control right Like that's not
176:30 - 177:00 part of the plan at all right now And so I don't So how does the amendment process work I mean the amendments approved by the by the agencies Is that like the amended version is approved by by DOA Fish and Wildlife Service Yeah we we can uh put some insight into that but you know I mean it's here's your agency recommendations that kind of talks about that but go ahead I was just going to
177:00 - 177:30 say in the past we had a vote with amendment at the Cahuku site for the removal of barb wire and so essentially we the ESRC voted to approve with the amendments that the barb wire was all removed and that was ensured that that occurred by the agency by DOA So yes it would be on DOA to ensure that these amendments that the ESRC votes on are implemented in the plan Uh to remind you folks of the um submitt
177:30 - 178:00 at the end of the submitt um DOA uh is granting approval with amendments to this plan um because remember this plan has to be approved by DOA fish and wildlife service and the ESRC So at the end of the submitt for DOA DOA is granting approval with amendments Um a lot of those amendments are focused on outplanting plan Um there's a couple other items that are in there and uh we gave um Tetrate Techch a deadline uh to submit a revised copy of the plan with
178:00 - 178:30 our amendments so that those were addressed and that they then receive final approval once we've received that copy I am going to go ahead and move to approve uh the recommendations as listed here Um and yeah I'll move to do that Second
178:30 - 179:00 Okay So uh let's just do this formally Um the ESRC will now take a vote to approve approve with amendments or reject the plans Um do I have a motion to vote Okay I got two Yes Motion to vote All right Thank you And so we'll take a vote now Will all the committee members please have their cameras on to vote All in favor say I to and please keep your
179:00 - 179:30 hands up for approval to uh move forward with amendments Okay Thank you And on um all against this favor say nay and keep your hands raised I I just I'm voting because I I think I would want I'd want to understand what the predator component was um in order
179:30 - 180:00 to to move forward Yeah we can we'll go ahead and add that into the recommendation slide before we um she wants to have um information on how the predator control will be conducted So yeah Yeah I guess what it's the right like predator control for you know like at a bat roost tree is very
180:00 - 180:30 different than say doing like a rat control around an outplanting area to improve success of you know out outplanting and so I think I with the way these are currently written I don't understand I I'm not clear on what that that second to last bullet what the aim of it is or what it would look like because it would be very different for different
180:30 - 181:00 purposes So that's my my reasoning Okay Does anyone else on the SRC committee have a response to Karen She she likes I mean again we could put the caveat in there that a predator control plan
181:00 - 181:30 be developed in consultation with the agencies being DOA and US fish and wildlife service to be integrated into the plan I would support that especially given I know Michelle is not here anymore and she had kind of highlighted the distinction between the research as mitigation in this tier and the
181:30 - 182:00 restoration activities and I'm not quite clear on the distinction between those and so having her present for that this is clearly a restoration m activity um and that's different from the research activity and So if our goal here is to approve the research plan apart from the the restoration activities then what's written here is fine and so I think it's a little bit um mixed in here and so
182:00 - 182:30 it's making it a little bit extra confusing Yeah Thanks That's both the plan and the research plan mitigation plan Yes And I get that and I think well maybe I don't get that but so because it's not called out which thing is for which and what we're trying to what's our job here let me just ask a super dumb question Is our job here to approve the new the research plan in the
182:30 - 183:00 context of reaching the new tier of mitigation And if that's the case then that needs to be kind of clearly called out If there's a second component that has to do with restoration activities as mitigation that are part of a different tier then maybe that should be distinct Sorry I know we all want lunch Troy you have some help here I don't want to interrupt the
183:00 - 183:30 deliberations but um I guess I just wanted to point out I think my understanding of what Michelle was getting at is and she's correct in that what she was saying is that we have to do a certain amount of monitoring to determine whether or not the mitigation is effective or not whether or not we're meeting our success criteria and not to confuse that with and not call that research And so and that's where we have created So all of that is described in the management plan The management activities and the monitoring that will be occurring to determine whether or not
183:30 - 184:00 the management activities are effective Um that's in a management plan The research component is what's happening outside of the fence and is it is separate uh and and in part is because of what Michelle outlined Um and that's and that's why there are two plans frankly Um so I just wanted to point that out Okay And and again just for clarification and maybe the HCP team can help with this The mitigation is part of a previous tier and it was previously approved and we're just kind of no not
184:00 - 184:30 approved So we're having to approve that mitigation plan And sorry Lisa and Troy Craig sorry that slip in real fast Uh just to recap um these folks have two tiers for bats They are in their first tier um which is 34 bats They've taken um four observed bats to date but they're in their first tier This would be mitigation for that Just to clarify this is approving a mitigation plan and a research plan
184:30 - 185:00 correct Which one Tier one correct So helpful Thank you So so if something applies to an edit to the research plan it seems like that should be called out in this slide And if it applies to the mitigation plan it should be called out as such Uh that seems really important for the um contractors and the permit holder as well as for our
185:00 - 185:30 future um understanding of what we've asked them to do And and what I would add on the thought of predator control as it relates to both the the mitigation management and the research is given kind of some of the things that um you know Lindsay mentioned that arthropod and invertebrate um density is highly related to predator control that even
185:30 - 186:00 some of those research plots could look at predator control and then control plots that don't have predator control and looking at the differences that could be super informative Um and then assuming that the mitigation plan and management within the fence we I at least would believe that predator control would be warranted in that
186:00 - 186:30 particularly as it relates to plants and invertebrate um protection essentially along with bats Okay this is helpful So I know we were in the middle of taking a vote Uh I will give How What are Robert's rules of orders Do we need to do I have When you
186:30 - 187:00 amend something there's like a whole process you have to go through for what Your motion stands as amended Okay that does my second um Hey folks uh really sorry here Um we just want to double check as the notetakers um regarding predator control Uh Lisa were you voicing you wanted predator control specifically within the fence which would indicate the mitigation plan or did you want it
187:00 - 187:30 inside and outside indicating both plans Predator control would be valuable to both plans I leave it to the land managers to determine what makes the most sense from their management perspective As the research plan is implemented I think there would be value in looking at the differences of predator control and non-predator
187:30 - 188:00 control plots And I actually think this action could really help us see more response in the restoration um as part of the restoration monitoring and on the research part Okay Thank you Thank you Okay So as we go forward here at this point first we're just going to have the SRC Okay you know these amendments that we see on
188:00 - 188:30 this slide and then we're going to go back into a vote again Uh if that's okay with you guys what are you looking for Jason I'm sorry What was that Melissa What are you What are you wanting us to do Um we're going to just approve We're going to um have the SRC agree on what we have on this slide and then we're going to go into voting for the tier one you
188:30 - 189:00 know for the project management plan and research plan Okay I think Kavika indicated his approval of the modified slide and I did as well So you have a reiteration of first Great Thank you So uh here we're going to go ahead and move forward with a vote And so we're voting to approve with amendments
189:00 - 189:30 uh and for this management plan tier one and research plan Um do I have a motion to vote Thank you And so uh we will now take a vote Will all committee members please have their cameras on for the vote You guys all do the the vote is to approve with the amendments Yes So all in favor say I and please keep your hands raised Thank you Uh so at this point the motion
189:30 - 190:00 is unanimous So we have a vote Thank you all vote to approve the amendment with amendment So this brings us to our fifth agenda item which is adjournment So motion to adjourn Okay Second That was fast
190:00 - 190:30 I second So we'll now take a vote All in favor please say I and keep your hand raised I thank you That's unanimous The time now is 12:18 and ESR ESRC public meeting is now adjourned Okay thank you everybody Thank you Thank you folks I just want to take quick moment to um thank everybody on the ESRC committee Um thank KMWP for being here Um I want to recognize all
190:30 - 191:00 the folks that are fantastic at the Aahu branch Ryan Peralta Susan Chang everybody that works for NEPAM Chris Miller Jenna Masters all those folks Um also want to um give uh my thanks to folks over at HIPP my folks at OIS Um basically anybody and everybody that I could contact about this to give uh insights to Tetrate Tech I did and everyone was willing and able to share that So um that was really inspiring to see um the conservation community coming together like that and um you know thank you for uh for putting up with me This
191:00 - 191:30 is my first time doing this so I really appreciate it Um this has been a great experience So thank you everybody And also thank Money um and Priya and all the folks with AES Thank you Thanks Troy You bet We're excited to get started on this you all and and can't wait to tell you about it as it unfolds So great All right you guys all have a great e uh afternoon and a great weekend Thank you very much Thank you
191:30 - 192:00 You want