Fred Destin: Crafting Meaningful Relationships in Venture (Part 2) | Episode 52

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In this engaging episode of the 'Nothing Ventured' podcast, host Arish Sha welcomes back Fred Destin, founder of Stride VC. They delve into the multifaceted world of venture capital, exploring the human side of VCs and the philosophical aspects of the industry. Fred shares experiences on empathetic interactions with founders, the pitfalls of ego and superficial metrics, and emphasizes the importance of self-awareness in the boardroom. As the conversation unfolds, Destin also discusses the future of venture in the age of AI, shedding light on systemic challenges and the need for a thoughtful investment strategy.

Highlights

Fred Destin emphasizes the importance of viewing VCs as human beings, with their own journeys and challenges. 🤔
Discusses the long feedback loops in venture capital and the necessity of adaptability. ⏳
Critiques the digital age’s emphasis on superficial success metrics like social media followers. 📊
Highlights the role of empathy and self-awareness in board meetings, urging VCs to be fully present and authentic. 🎯
Explores the evolving venture landscape with AI's rise, pushing for critical and strategic thinking. 🌐

Key Takeaways

VCs are human too, with their own struggles and needs. Understanding this can enhance interactions. 🤝
Empathy and active listening are essential skills for VCs to develop meaningful relationships with founders. 🧠
Continuous personal development can help VCs offer unbiased, valuable input during board meetings. 📈
The digital age poses challenges with superficial engagement metrics, urging a focus on authenticity. 📱
AI brings both challenges and opportunities, demanding adaptive investment strategies in venture. 🤖

Overview

In the second part of this enlightening podcast, Fred Destin and host Arish Sha navigate the deeper, philosophical undercurrents of venture capital. They shed light on the often-overlooked human elements of VCs, emphasizing the importance of empathy and active listening in forging genuine connections with founders. Destin paints a picture of venture as an artisanal craft, where continuous self-awareness and personal growth are at the core of effective board participation.

The discussion takes a critical turn towards the impact of social media and the digital world on the VC landscape. Destin warns against the allure of superficial metrics such as likes and followers, advocating instead for authenticity and thoughtful engagement. This shift in focus is crucial in a fast-paced, ever-connected world where meaningful discourse is priceless.

As the episode progresses, the focus turns to the challenges and opportunities AI brings to venture capital. Destin highlights the need for adaptive strategies and a thorough understanding of systemic shifts within the industry. The conversation underlines the necessity for VCs to stay grounded, informed, and forward-thinking in navigating the future of venture.

Chapters

00:00 - 00:30: Introduction The chapter titled 'Introduction' begins with a welcome message to a special two-part episode of 'Nothing Ventured' hosted by Arish Sha. Arish introduces Fred Destan, who is a guest in the studio. Fred Destan is the founder of Stride VC, a seed fund based in London currently investing from its second fund. Stride VC operates with the tagline 'Denters Welcome.' Before founding Stride, Fred was a general partner at Axel and Accomplice, where he led investments in several key ventures.
00:30 - 01:00: Fred Destin's Background and Episode Overview The chapter delves into Fred Destin's impressive background, highlighting his involvement with companies that have exited for over a billion dollars, such as Delu, Zuper, and Pilac, now part of Amazon Health. The discussion in this episode centers around the relationship between founders and venture capitalists (VCs), specifically the surprising discontent founders often feel towards VCs. The episode questions whether being an operator as a VC is a 'magic label' and explores how many VCs exhibit empathy for the journey of founders. It also discusses the concept of minimalist boards in startups and how VCs can impact this dynamic.
01:00 - 01:30: Challenges and Surprises in Venture Capital The chapter titled 'Challenges and Surprises in Venture Capital' covers a detailed analysis of the unique aspects of working in venture capital. It emphasizes the importance of being visible and adaptable as a venture capitalist (VC) and argues that despite its complexities, venture capital requires adaptability while making decisions under uncertainty. The discussion includes living in a world dictated by both skill and luck and explains how returns are driven by the selection of investments and entry price. Additionally, it touches on the phenomenon referred to as the Cambrian explosion in the context, likely indicating significant growth or diversification in the venture capital domain.
01:30 - 02:00: Venture as an Artisanal Occupation The chapter titled 'Venture as an Artisanal Occupation' explores the idea of being a generalist in the venture capital industry without falling into the trap of being generic. It discusses the importance of the Beginner's mindset, encouraging individuals to look beyond the surface of available information and avoid lazy thinking. The chapter features a conversation led by Arisha, aiming to dive into the human aspects of venture capital while providing insights into the ecosystem.
02:00 - 02:30: VCs as Human Beings and Personal Growth The chapter opens with the speaker introducing their experience working with startups across various stages, from pre-seed to series C, over the past ten years.
02:30 - 03:00: Board Dynamics and Personal Development In this chapter, the conversation kicks off with a discussion on venture capitalists (VCs) and their roles on the board and in supporting founders. The focus then shifts towards a more philosophical exploration of the venture world and the human aspects of VCs, reflecting on personal development and understanding within the industry. The speaker aims to delve into the evolution and journey of VCs as individuals and their impact on the dynamics of board meetings.
03:00 - 03:30: The Role of Ego and Perception in Venture Capital The chapter explores the role of ego and perception in the venture capital ecosystem. It emphasizes how both founders and investors are often idolized, yet they are fundamentally human with their own struggles. The chapter suggests a need to reconsider these perceptions, highlighting the personal journeys involved, including a reference to the speaker's own experiences of taking a pause in their venture journey.
03:30 - 04:00: Staying Grounded Amidst Praise The chapter titled 'Staying Grounded Amidst Praise' discusses the experiences and reflections of a venture capitalist (VC) about their work. It highlights the challenge of not receiving feedback loops, making self-reflection crucial for improvement and grounding amidst the successes and praises of the profession. The discussion emphasizes stepping into the shoes of a venture investor to understand the nuances and struggles unique to the field, including the human aspects of VCs that are often overlooked.
04:00 - 04:30: Craftsmanship in Venture Capital The chapter discusses the long feedback loops in venture capital investments. It narrates an individual's experience, highlighting that it took them about seven years to realize the positive potential of their portfolio. Returns began to improve significantly after 9 or 10 years and surged after 12 years, emphasizing the prolonged and often uncertain journey inherent in venture capital.
04:30 - 05:00: Individuality and Original Thinking This chapter discusses the challenges of feedback loops in certain organizational structures. It highlights how there is often a lack of regular, constructive feedback within partnerships compared to other types of companies, where practices like 360-degree feedback or regular meetings with managers are more common. The difficulty in distinguishing between skill and luck in early successes is also mentioned, emphasizing the challenge in evaluating performance objectively.
05:00 - 05:30: Social Media Influence and Authenticity The chapter discusses the challenges of receiving authentic feedback in professional settings, particularly in larger firms and among board members. It highlights the issue of being surrounded by people who may not provide honest feedback due to their interests, such as not wanting to jeopardize future investments or relationships. This lack of genuine critique can be exacerbated by social media platforms, like LinkedIn, where people tend to receive positive affirmations rather than constructive criticism, which can distort one's perception of their own performance and abilities. The chapter emphasizes the importance of seeking out authentic feedback to truly understand and improve one's work and influence.
05:30 - 06:00: Listening and Empathy in Venture Capital The chapter "Listening and Empathy in Venture Capital" discusses common pitfalls in fundraising and how superficial advice can still attract positive attention due to the ecosystem dynamics in venture capital. It highlights the issue of not receiving honest feedback from peers and how being in a position of power can create an echo chamber where genuine critique is rare. The text suggests awareness of these patterns and encourages deeper listening and empathy to navigate the venture capital landscape effectively.
06:00 - 06:30: First Principles Thinking and Focus The chapter discusses the concept of 'First Principles Thinking' in relation to personal development, particularly focusing on Carl Jung's idea of the Shadow. The Shadow represents aspects of one's personality that are typically hidden from self-awareness. The text suggests that in order to recognize these hidden traits or 'Shadows', one must be open to feedback from benevolent friends, colleagues, and others who can provide insights into these unseen facets of oneself.
06:30 - 07:00: Challenges in Startup Evaluation and Board Meetings The chapter focuses on the challenges encountered during startup evaluation and board meetings, emphasizing the value of self-awareness among board members. It highlights the anxiety board members feel, stemming from various stressors such as underperforming portfolios or personal pressures within their partnership roles. The perception that other companies are thriving while theirs is not contributes to heightened anxiety and stress, raising questions about performance disparities.
07:00 - 07:30: Empathy and Healthy Communication in Venture The chapter discusses the emotional and psychological challenges that individuals might bring to board meetings in a venture setting. It highlights issues such as fear, anxiety, pressure, and even blame that can influence the dynamics of the meeting. Additionally, it touches on how comparisons with other successful portfolios can lead to inflated expectations. The chapter emphasizes the importance of understanding and navigating the emotional needs that board members may have, suggesting that empathy and healthy communication are crucial for addressing these needs effectively.
07:30 - 08:00: Reflection on Content Creation and Attention In this chapter, the discussion revolves around the essential emotional needs of human beings, such as the desire to be seen, heard, loved, and respected. The scenario highlights a gender dynamic where a woman, despite knowing her contributions are valuable, tends to hold back due to the men dominating the conversation in a board meeting context. This reflection on content creation touches on how these needs and dynamics play out in professional settings.
08:00 - 08:30: AI's Influence on Venture Capital The chapter explores the nuanced dynamics of communication and expression, particularly for women, in male-dominated spaces such as venture capital. It discusses the challenges women face in balancing their communication style—between suppressing their voice and being perceived as too strong when they do speak out. The text highlights the internal struggle and the desire to be truly seen and heard in professional settings.
08:30 - 09:00: Challenges of Technological Advancement In this chapter titled 'Challenges of Technological Advancement', the discussion centers around the importance of distinguishing personal needs from the needs of the situation, particularly from the perspective of someone serving on multiple boards. The key point is the necessity of self-awareness in professional settings, especially for individuals who sit on numerous boards and deal with real-world applications regularly.
09:00 - 09:30: Systemic Challenges in Venture The chapter discusses the importance of distinguishing between one's personal emotions and the emotions required for given circumstances, especially in the context of systemic challenges in venture. It suggests that a subject-object relationship in meditation, where one observes emotions as objects, can be beneficial. This approach allows individuals to set aside unhelpful emotions, enhancing their capacity to effectively address the situation at hand. The narrative highlights the need for significant personal development to truly be present and responsive to challenges.
09:30 - 10:00: Conclusion and Final Thoughts The chapter "Conclusion and Final Thoughts" discusses the importance of maintaining awareness and emotional control, especially in challenging situations. It emphasizes the need for individuals to manage their emotional responses, such as anger and fear, to be effective in high-pressure environments. The text highlights that anxiety limits one's perception, causing a tunnel vision effect where only the source of anxiety is focused upon, leading to a loss of situational awareness. Building companies and working cohesively with a team require this broad awareness to notice subtle cues in interactions, such as changes in body language, that could indicate underlying issues or dynamics at play. This heightened situational awareness is crucial for successful collaboration and decision-making.

Fred Destin: Crafting Meaningful Relationships in Venture (Part 2) | Episode 52 Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 hello and welcome to a special two-part episode of nothing ventured with me arish sha today in the studio with me I have Fred destan Fred for those that need an introduction is the founder of stride VC a seed fund operating out of London and currently investing out of its second fund their tagline is denters welcome prior to stride Fred was a general partner at Axel and accomplice he was a leader investor on seven
00:30 - 01:00 companies that have exited for over a billion dollars in value including delu zuper pilac now Amazon health and many others in these episodes we talk about how Founders have a level of discontent with VCS and how surprising that has been is operator as a VC a magic label how many VCS have empathy for the founder journey and why minimalist boards uh and how VCS can move the
01:00 - 01:30 needle for the founders they work with is so important navigating the need to be seen as a VC Venture as an artisanal occupation the fact the Venture is not complicated but that you do need to be adaptable and how you make decisions in a state of uncertainty we talked about as a VC you are living in a world of both skill and luck how Returns come from the pick and the entry price we talk about the Cambrian explosion
01:30 - 02:00 adventure and where we are now and how you can be a generalist but you can't be generic we end up in the second episode talking about VCS as human beings how you can Embrace The Beginner's mindset and how you should look beyond the information that's being presented to you and how to avoid the Trap of lazy thinking let's get into it this is nothing ventured with me Arisha the podcast where I talk to the people behind the stories that make the Venture Capital ecosystem go around
02:00 - 02:30 I've been working with startups from precc to series C for the last decade and companies I've worked with have gone on to realize value and exit or raise funds in excess of half a billion dollars I really hope you enjoy the episode and if you have a guest that you'd love to see me have on or you have a comment on any of the episodes that I've recorded so far do reach out to me on LinkedIn or Twitter I'd love to hear from you let's get straight into it [Music]
02:30 - 03:00 Fred great to have you back in the studio uh we covered like a lot of stuff about the craft Adventure um how VCS can show up at board how can they show up for Founders uh in the first episode and in this episode I think we want to get a little bit sort of into maybe the more philosophical side of venture and where you've gotten to in your journey so I wanted to kick this off around thinking about the top topc of VCS as human
03:00 - 03:30 beings right because I think a lot of us in the ecosystem certainly on the founder side uh over the last number of years have often put you know we've tended to either put Founders on pedestals or we put investors on pedestals but in both situations right the these are human beings they are people they are you know they have their own internal struggles so how do you think about that like what are and and you yourself of course have you know uh come through a journey where you've decided to pause and and and
03:30 - 04:00 reflect on things so how have how have those Reflections gone I guess maybe um well who knew VCS were human beings struggle with that one yeah um so avoiding generalizations too much I think it's interesting to step into the shoes of a venture investor and think about the Arc of their work so on the one hand one of the things that's difficult Ventures you don't get feedback loops so
04:00 - 04:30 the results feedback loops tend to be of course very long in my case I think after seven years I started to realize that my portfol was good after N9 or 10 we sort of started kicking in on returns and after 12 years the returns really took off it's a long freaking time right and in the middle it's really quite Messy as to whether
04:30 - 05:00 you get signal I mean you can get lucky and have things that fly early but you don't even know if that's skill or luck anyway yeah so you're in these very long feedback loops and then internally within most Partnerships Partnerships are not very good at giving feedback it's not a they're not in a habit of 360s in companies or regular sit Downs with your manager or something and so you don't get that much feedback from there either um you kind of have to feel how
05:00 - 05:30 well you're doing or somebody might kindly take your as side but certainly in bigger firms it's not very systematic then when you're on a board or you're working with Founders everybody tells you You're great because you hold the key to the next check you're unlikely to get called out and yeah nobody wants to piss you off and then to make it worse you're on LinkedIn and you're posting advice and old the founders go that's great you know here's
05:30 - 06:00 five things you should never do when you fund raise and you drop the worst advice on the planet you're still going to get 250 likes because people are going to go like well that's amazing because they may want to race for you yeah so you get flattered by the ecosystem in a way and it's sort of emic because people are going to come and Pitch you and then you're in a position of power of saying yay or nay um so you know there's a lot in there that doesn't provide you with honest feedback but worse than that kind of tends to
06:00 - 06:30 reinforce certain traits which may or may not be helpful right so first thing is like well if you wanna if you want to think about personal work and Yung for example the whole idea of the Shadow a shadow is aspects of your personality you do not see it's the whole concept of the Shadow the only way you're going to See Your Shadow is if benevolent friends and co-workers and other people are able to show it to you and again if you think
06:30 - 07:00 about if I take us back to the context of the board for a second self-awareness in a board is golden so people come into the boardroom with things like they're anxious because their portfolio is under stress they might be under stress themselves in their position at the partnership your company might be not doing great and that feeds more anxiety they have the perception that everybody else's companies is doing great except yours and so there's a bit of but what aren't we performing better so they
07:00 - 07:30 might arrive at the board with a whole set of things like fear anxiety pressure from the partnership Etc That You Don't See and and blame I guess would be a part of it right like and possibly blame sure why not so they come they may come with that um they may have had discussions with other people's portfolio are doing great and they come with inflated expectations about where you should be and and then more importantly they come with their own emotional need needs what
07:30 - 08:00 are core emotional needs of every human being I want to be seen I want to be heard I want to be loved I want to be respected you know so they're kind of come with that whole thing to the board and I've I've sat with people board members who say my I know my contribution is great so for example case of this lady she will hold back hold back hold back hold back because the men speak too much this is gender but it was the scenario and so
08:00 - 08:30 she finds that everybody's talking out of their ass which you know with group of men would not be uncommon and then she'll come out with the advice but when she does it's too strong and so there's that thing of like suppressing your own voice but then coming out too strongly and then when we dug into it it was like well what is it about that that what's the trigger inside of you right um and the was I really want to be seen
08:30 - 09:00 to be helpful by my Founders that's it it was like well okay you know that's that has that's your need that's not the Founder's need which is interesting so the first thing is to recognize what's inside of me versus what's of service to the situation I'm in so if you think about that and you go to boards all the time you're a professional board member you might sit on eight to 10 boards you do a lot of boards this is not some theoretical use case that you encounter from time to time you know it's part of your job and so Your Capacity to bring self-awareness and to
09:00 - 09:30 realize what's your own set of emotions versus um what's required in the moment is very important so for that you need in meditation terms you'd say subject object relationship like I'm able to observe my own emotions as an object and then Park them to the side if they're not helpful to the situation at hand right um so you can see that it requires a fair amount of personal development work to be able to really show up
09:30 - 10:00 especially in difficult boats to show up in the right way so and people you will see people going to anger going to fear uh generally stop listening whenever you're anxious it's like your your view of the world diminishes and you can only see the thing you're anxious about so you lose all your peripheral vision and building companies being on board is all about peripheral vision what's going on in the room why did the co-founder just lean back and cross his arm when the CEO said that you know okay so that's an important CU so what just happen can we
10:00 - 10:30 bring that back in so like stuff like that it's not just what's the discussion that's in front of you so if you go back to the to the VC makeup you know the the um the difficulty in a way is there is a lot in this work that will reinforce your ego you know people will tell you you're great you will stand on stage at websummit you will be showered in Praise by people want your money and so so just sort of staying grounded
10:30 - 11:00 through all of that especially if you become successful because you know you make I'm on the first three European Midas list I mean so what but you know it does you can get to a place where other people put you on a pedestal so now people say Fred's a legend I'm like I have a VC who runs small-sized funds and backs people like there I do not want to be your Legend
11:00 - 11:30 you know I'm very happy if you appreciate the work I do like it reminds me of a quote by Ram daso one of his followers came to him and said ramas will you be my Guru and ramas said yes now what you know and this is good question so back to your points about heroes like there is no need to put people on a pedestal it's like you know what is there to learn from the way that person does their job and guess what you don't become Steve Jobs by aping Steve Jobs's biography you know you don't see all the mess he went through you don't
11:30 - 12:00 see all the he went through all the uncertainties and all the crap it's like the Theos like the famous photo of of of her in the uh in the polo neck right like emulation is not is is not the same as being right so you know guess what you only have your own journey to follow and then can you be grounded in truth and humidity and learning so so this is Will drift that way and this is why I go back to the craft because the craft makes you humble you know when you're a
12:00 - 12:30 Craftsman you're never done right whether you're making swords in Japan or turning wood or something you know George Nakashima probably felt at some point like a master but then he's like oh this next piece of wood looks really F you're always chasing Perfection right yeah and you're you're also you respect the time it takes to do things right you know the attention to detail you know you don't you don't you don't make grand gestures of venture like Behavior as if that was going to be the thing you go back to am I asking the
12:30 - 13:00 right questions do I understand the problem correctly you know am I what are the distinctions that I need to make here to help the found think about this better you don't go well I got this Venture figured out and drop the wording that you read in someone else's blog yeah it's like the outcome is a is is is the outcome is an output of the process and it's the process that is that is the thing right it is it is that is the thing that that actually
13:00 - 13:30 adds value whether you are an artisan whether you're a VC whether you're anything else your you're it is the love of The Craft that drives you rather than necessarily just the outcome I was sitting on a board once where the company is looking like it was going to be a breakout and we were trying to assess sort of what a ambitious reasonable to ambitious kind of valuation range was sort of medium-term because we're also thinking about how much Capital to raise Etc so it wasn't some kind of
13:30 - 14:00 um abstract exercise and then one guy heing his early 30s late 20s or something from one of the growth funds in the US just sits there and goes and how do we make this a $25 billion company and we all looked at him going dude if you build A1 billion doll compan if you've been involved even remotely in building a$1 billion doll company we talk about like sort of a one to five range and then you know he thought he was sort of asking a profound question and I get the intent of it like I've
14:00 - 14:30 read the parallel but you know it's these moments when you're like if we can we will we promise but you know are you in the room or you it's a statement of grandeur you know it's a narcissistic statement right and so stuff like that you will come easily because you get fed what you perceive to be wisdom out in the market in the tropes and the memes and the you know the on liners from from Elon or whoever it may be or Peter theal
14:30 - 15:00 and you think that's wisdom right it's not it's the crystallized wisdom of someone else from their Journey from their experience which they've earned you know so it's like just go back to say things that you own right like say things do things that you own because you know they come from a position of they're correct you know they're correct because your expertise is correct because your intuition is correct because it's what's required in the moment instead of blah you know like
15:00 - 15:30 we live in a world where everybody there is a lot of blah yeah right yeah I I mean because the way I think about it and you're right I mean look part part of the problem is look and this podcast in and of itself is part of that right um you know everyone is trying to uh make their Mark everyone is trying to stand out as an expert as a talking head everyone is everyone is trying to stand out in a really saturated Market of people that that seem to be you know standing out left
15:30 - 16:00 right and center right um I I I get I get quite amused at at seeing certainly on LinkedIn whether it's you know around venture or other topics when you look behind the post when you look at the like you know is the is does the Post suggest that that person is successful or has the post been successful right and you know I have 18,000 followers on LinkedIn does that mean I'm successful it means I have 18,000 followers on LinkedIn right does
16:00 - 16:30 that translate to something not necessarily maybe I've had something interesting to say at some point and those people have come along and said okay yeah click a button but that's what it is it's clicking a button and I think actually for me as an example over the last you know six months my realization has been actually maybe I just need to stop just writing stuff unless I really and and I've never I've I've always tried only to write stuff that I mean and that is authentic but there comes a point where equally
16:30 - 17:00 you can get caught in the Trap and the cycle of posting for the sake of posting or saying for the sake of saying right which is I think what you're saying uh and actually how do you step back from that and start thinking about okay when I say something if I want people to pay attention then what I'm what I am going to say is only what at my core is what I feel what I what I really feel needs to be said rather than just for the sake of
17:00 - 17:30 saying it totally so if we take one extreme people are um automating comments using AI on Main right so I understand that's part of a technology enabled strategy to try and build your follower account Etc or improve your position in yo or whatever it may be but you are at that point you're contributing to the biggest problem we have as a society which is
17:30 - 18:00 you know overabundance of digital that's consuming all of our time and noise yeah right so you're contributing to that period then the next question I would ask is when you're writing things that are derivative or writing things that you don't own or writing things that are a bit fake or how do you feel because you can always direct your attention outside and say well that post work really well well cool you can also
18:00 - 18:30 become Jordan Peterson who went from being a pretty brilliant thinker to being captured by his own audience and becoming some kind of I don't know what he's become as a figure now but certainly the quality of his content his interaction has gone down and his own anger and ego seem to have gone up so do you want to be do you want to be that so at some point the machine owns you and you're just feeding algorithms and you know you live in that world where um you're getting likes and clicks and
18:30 - 19:00 followers Etc and you're and you're caught in it so okay does that help original thinking probably not does that contribute anything to the discourse of the world probably not do people in the nose see through it probably yes yes yeah um so it's a bit of an internal question again which is how does it make you feel you know do you are you developing your unique voice are you being creative are you producing content that you think is worth reading or are
19:00 - 19:30 you playing an algorithm more in a machine that is designed for audience and attention character is it and is it just a dopamine hit that you're chasing rather than but of course and so then you know do you need to live real time which is another interesting question right because the the other disease in there is the concept that everything's real time all the time if everything's real time all the time but definition you have no time to think there's no Stillness right so how are you supposed
19:30 - 20:00 to know what you want or what's required or what's needed if everything real time so real time for me is a bug not a feature there's some things where it's useful if you're waiting for your Uber um that's about it yeah yeah I mean and and which goes back to you know the concept of Lindy books and and writing blogs over writing posts um you know Twitter threads over just sort of single single kind of uh
20:00 - 20:30 you know Twitter comments or whatever a and The more I've kind of gotten into the content game which is only like a part of my my life as it were uh the The more I've realized I'm only interested in putting down things that are meaningful rather than things that are are aimed at garnering attention right so what what like a really good example of this again I know a bunch of people that kind of have very large LinkedIn profiles Etc
20:30 - 21:00 and and their you know their their attitude to all of this is okay but I did this post and it it and it got you know 20,000 views but this post only got 3,000 views okay what's gone wrong what can I do to fix that and I think that's the wrong way of looking at it because you are you are not in control of the algorithm in any case and the algorithm will do whatever the the algorithm is going to do ultimately so actually the best thing you can do is say what you want to say and put it out
21:00 - 21:30 there and if and if that if that is something that drives value into your life brilliant if it doesn't then you know so be it but I think assuming that the value comes from the fact that someone has liked or commented or clicked or reposted or whatever like actually that that that is it's just the wrong lens to look at it right and and again I think that's driven predominantly by ego more than anything else so one of the one of the kind of topics that you and I have
21:30 - 22:00 talked about is how not to suck right like what do you mean by that how how can how can VCS not suck cuz there is this sort of Trope out there in the world that you know all VCS are and they say they're going to do stuff and we've talked a lot about you know how they can sharp it board and so on but but at the same time VCS are responsible for managing the capital of others they are responsible for showing
22:00 - 22:30 up at boards and and hopefully meaningfully uh providing direction towards Founders and helping them on that journey and hopefully creating meaningful businesses that that you know yes do return Capital obviously that is a fundamental part of the the nature of of venture so how so I guess part of it is how do they EXT how can you extract the ego and and be yourself and not suck and show up for everyone within that
22:30 - 23:00 ecosystem which is the LPS your partners Founders The Firm your co-investors whoever well it's um it's good practice in life I think to take yourself out of the equation for a minute and look at the what it is you're actually trying to do right so the job of VC requires sourcing investing investing with rigor reinvesting with rigor which means
23:00 - 23:30 looking at your portfolio holistically and deciding where you're going to concentrate Capital um these are rigorous processes where you owe it to yourself to shop in the right way then there's all the board management which is where a lot of the Soft Stuff angst uh you know hatred rage uh variant kind of show up so the hard not to suck first of all it's like what is it that I'm trying to do across that curve to
23:30 - 24:00 achieve the best outcome for my LPS and to ideally enjoy myself in the process and do good work right um so the what I observe first of all in the in the saki department is there is really a loss of empathy for the founders Journey that is quite generalized having empathy for the founder Journey does not mean you don't have a tough conversation or a tough
24:00 - 24:30 decision to make right if you think about the word compassion for example compassion at the heart of it is I can feel your pain and I know you're okay I can feel your pain and I'm not going to fix you I can feel your pain and my compassion will be grounded in truth so the first trick here is to keep on feeling but feeling doesn't mean you're joining the other side Cor quote feeling doesn't mean you're stepping away from
24:30 - 25:00 your role right so empathy feeling into the space of the founder having understanding and respect for the journey is like step one and can we all go back to that if I feel respect for my journey from you Founders are not stupid to understand investors to make investment decisions and are trying to drive value like they're not dumb but if they feeling respect from you about what they're trying to do in the way in which they're trying to do it you'll be a lot
25:00 - 25:30 closer to having a high quality conversation than you were five minutes ago simply because you're bringing that across the table so that's one number two is people don't know how to listen it's amazing like man the amount of time people get interrupted halfway through a sentence I mean if somebody's rambling on for 10 minutes and covering 12 topics I get it and there's an intervention to do but just deeply listen you know listen pause have a bit of a moment of
25:30 - 26:00 silence in the room until the right question emerges we don't know how to listen andc is are terrible at that so then there's no listening there's no full body listening or full attention listening or any of that people are just not skilled in it partly because they're coming into the room they're like we got two hours or we got 1 hour or something and I there's an input here and I want an output here and you know you're Focus on within the hour we got to get through
26:00 - 26:30 these topics and get to the answer um which may or may not be possible I don't know because for all I know halfway through a board meeting a real topic will emerge which is really the thing we should be discussing that wasn't even on the agenda that happens a lot right so we kind of go like well be present to what is and go like well where's this conversation taking us and is it a good conversation to have so the the sort of learning to listen being present Etc then actually think so check
26:30 - 27:00 your biases at the door confirmation biases pattern recognition super dangerous your past experience is not always good guide all that stuff go back to First principles right when you go back to First principles you basically in your beginner's mind also look beyond the information that's being showed to you somebody's showing me a piece of information are acquisition we're struggling on acquisition and you know the channels aren't scaling okay cool can you take a
27:00 - 27:30 step back and look at the entirety of the company and the problems it's facing because we can talk about acquisition all day long but actually you know the problem we have is uh really the product doesn't quite need the needs of the customers yet and we're not spending enough time on product health and so we're super focused here because we're trying to drive revenues because all the VES are trying to drive revenu so we're like we got to drive revenu so we got to drive acquisition and you're like actually the core of the problem is not fixed so in that case the right
27:30 - 28:00 conversation to have would be can we take the focus of growth can we go lower burn whilst we figure out the core of the product which wasn't the topic of the board meeting to start with but is the right conversation to have if you're not paying attention laterally and you're not thinking first principles you're going to miss that and then you be having debate about acquisition retention is not working and which channel is working unit economics are not working this business is till six month down the line you're like this business is like no you didn't fix the source what is a fundamental you
28:00 - 28:30 didn't fix the source problem to start with right so none of this allows you to be to be uh lazy or to swing by right if I'm going to listen to you that takes full attention if I'm going to actively listen to you and and calm the voice in my head and park it to the side whilst I take in what you've told me and then I'm going to go back to First principles and think about what you told me and then I'm going to formulate something that's
28:30 - 29:00 unique to your situation okay that's work you know you can't just go like I'll go to the board meeting and I'll be half on my phone and kind of wing it and say a few things and leave so that's the being willing to do the work right and to give a period of time and a group of people your full attention so the first step of not to suck is I would say is that and then can you apply that everywhere can you do the same when your partner is trying to pitch your deal at the Monday meeting and instead of
29:00 - 29:30 thinking about your deal or whatever you think is already what you already know what's wrong with these deal so you're not really listening you're already waiting for the thing you're going to say it's a classic I'm listening to but I'm really just waiting to say the thing I wanted to say so can you bring that everywhere you know and and can we be that so I think that for me is um again it's a skill set I mean you develop this thing by doing active listening workshops or you develop this thing by doing di ads you know or you develop this thing by meditating um or whatever it may be so
29:30 - 30:00 these are these are trainable skills and and not only that but they are there are skills that go Way Beyond Venture I mean like they are skills that I think have been lost in general over the last 105 years like that art like the art of listening the art of the art of thinking about what you're saying rather than saying what you want to say uh these are skills that I see less and less of actually in in in General in the world around us uh and I think that's again a
30:00 - 30:30 function going back to what we were talking about earlier it's a function of just the spewing of information that we see everywhere there's a lot of lazy thinking and prescriptive thinking yeah this world of prescription how to build a startup how to lead your life how to become a better lover how to like whatever we live in a world of prescription yeah it's like enough already anything you haven't experienced through your own path of learning and experiencing is not is because you don't own it right and so I dropped
30:30 - 31:00 a I dropped a post and it said trigger warning yeah UK Founders think this is this is is doing the rounds at the moment yeah and then I'm looking at the commentary and the commentary is always the same so I did that on purpose it it's a bit um today I'd like to make you think so it's in that category sure so it's not that the post is ambiguous on purpose because the the objective is to trigger con ation right so I know what I'm doing with that one which is I'm
31:00 - 31:30 pushing something out there that's a little bit of a statement and it's imperfect and it is designed to see what comes up right so the gift to the audience so to speak is to I'd like to make you think about this question not everyone's gonna not not everyone's going to come to it and say yeah okay Fred's right right they're gonna they're going to challenge yeah so the answers that come back are um well that's normal because um all OBC should be operators okay so drob number one or well that's normal because um you know VC have never
31:30 - 32:00 built anything in h account to to be good B Trope number two and so and all this thing people Pile in according to their belief system so we live in a world of belief systems I'm like well that's because the best board member we've ever seen probably your best invested board member we've ever seen is Mike morit at seoa and he was a journalist yeah so I mean and I we can find a hundred of those examples right so the rule doesn't work life is not and why do you keep applying the rule I mean
32:00 - 32:30 you know there's a lot of individuals who defy where they come from to be great at what they do thank God by the way so all this labeling and simplification so all of its lazy thinking now and everybody seems guilty of it so we lost the ability to think right I couldn't agree more uh and it is I I I mean I'm hopeful of a world where and and you know I think about where AI is going to take us and I think
32:30 - 33:00 the problem is there is the opportunity that thinking will become even lazier because you'll Outsource your thinking to something else which actually leads us I guess just as we wrap up uh this episode now where do we go from here so you know what are your thoughts about Venture in a world of AI and uh and ultimately where are you focus on for yourself now moving forward um so yeah I acts as a interesting
33:00 - 33:30 Catalyst for sort of people reflecting on life on this planet right um because it's sort of taking our utility function away a lot of the a lot of the jobs that AI will do are the things which traditionally thought is being asked at a deeper level right creativity authoring and all that stuff and so suddenly we've lived in a world where
33:30 - 34:00 your utility function is almost purely determined by your job right so what you do that is what defines you yeah it's what you do in the in a in in a system of remuneration and and all the status that's associated with that and so suddenly you go like wait hang on a minute there's some of these Advanced jobs that we thought of his knowledge jobs are getting blown up and then we're like oh being a designer and a design agency which was this
34:00 - 34:30 really cool thing that you could do that had a specific status attached to it it's going to be replaced by machines really effectively so so then you're back to like what's my purpose right so you get to the you get to these bigger questions and um and humans especially in Western societies my observation would be we torture ourselves with the question of what are we doing with the talents we were given and you can torture yourself your entire life how am I best spending my time on this planet kind of thing
34:30 - 35:00 yeah yeah and you know nothing's ever enough because oh I raised 100 million Fern a 200 milon fun 500 million fun or whatever definition of success you you dish out you can always be exceeded by some other definition I always say you can't chase happiness happiness is a state of being so you're either happy or you're not but looking for happy happiness and success is one of the definition or what one of the reasons or one of the ways people think that they will achieve happiness is through success but success is always a ever
35:00 - 35:30 moving Target right I don't know if happiness is stable yeah no precisive I don't know if happiness is a goal yeah exactly is particularly achievable actually which is a bigger philosophical question I think you can get to piece yeah inner peace and you can get to freedom and by freedom I mean understanding the system you're play in and determining your experience of it I don't know that you can get to happiness reliably I think it's kind of a tough goal to achieve but um no so if you think about Adventure in a world of
35:30 - 36:00 AI um look I think there are systemic challenges we hadn't seen before which are the technology Stacks are quite stable um in the past you know you'd be on uh internet and then cloud and SAS and then mobile and there was some kind of evolutionary jump in the curve that would allow new companies to emerge because all the old guys don't know how to do mobile so we're going to do mobile first and all that stuff so all that kind of gone away and everybody's on some kind of JavaScript framework with
36:00 - 36:30 you know Python and CNM so so that communitization of the tooling and the analytics and the scating platforms Etc means you know a lot of the businesses that we used to back are inherently less defensible right and this is quite a systemic problem um so I'm looking at these marketing automation sales automation blah blah blah sectors there 150 similar companies all Tred to become
36:30 - 37:00 gong and you know how do I pick a winner in that I don't know so then people push themselves to Edge technology which is great and so there's a lot more Edge investing in deep Tech which is fantastic uh a lot of these are still science project so they come with their own issues in terms of timelines and adoption and Industrial adoption Etc so it's not an easy place to invest but it's becoming easier because software is permeating everything so they look more and more like software companies which of course scale faster yeah um so and
37:00 - 37:30 then incumbents because they're and we think of incumbents like intercom or whatever is incumbent they not really the fast moving software companies so the capacity of who would be an acquirer to replicate adapt Etc something that a stard comes with is a lot higher than it used to be yeah so all that makes for mix which is a sort of the giant exit crisis we're facing which is too many somewhat undifferentiated businesses um with with incumbents that are much better at replicating building
37:30 - 38:00 internally and so I think for me that poses some systemic challenges which means I would go like way deep into again back to investment strategy and not go out without Clarity around how I'm going to generate Alpha if you don't know where your sources of Returns come from and you're kind of hoping for the best don't do it go back to work and figure it out yeah um because I don't think this is market for the lazy uh Ventures hard people forget how
38:00 - 38:30 hard it is to build value sustainably I mean they're being reminded now but man I've had very few companies that were some kind of straight line to success you know zla series B we had uh the lead investor pull out on the day of the Obama inauguration two days from closing and I had to go to my PES and pound the table and say we're putting 3 million quid in there and everybody's like you fail to raise externally which was correct I'm like we just had to
38:30 - 39:00 do it um you know it's it's there's always some variant of that you know ppac at some point got sued by all the pbms the pharmacy benefit managers who cut off their supplies and the only reason why we survived is because we managed to harness the power of our patients and shame them in the public domain together with some heroic lobbying efforts in Washington I mean so that company almost also almost died in that process uh so it's just hard man Fred we've run
39:00 - 39:30 out of time sadly uh but we can do this again I guess at some point uh if you can find the time but look I mean this has been an incredible exploration of your thoughts on Venture your thoughts of where we are today and and and and actually I think a really candid talk about VC as a human craft as as something that you know people should not look at from the perspective
39:30 - 40:00 purely of um you know purely of what are the returns where do we go from here you know what do we invest in but actually like how do we how do we turn this into something that is a meaningful pathway for people um for the audience where is the best place for them to find you online you're on LinkedIn you're on Twitter where can they find you on the internet um I'm mu most places except for LinkedIn to be honest so that's check me out on LinkedIn Fred Des on LinkedIn okay well look thank you so
40:00 - 40:30 much for joining me in the studio it's been absolutely incredible really really enjoyed the the conversation pleasure thank you so much