How To Increase Flavor In Your Plants! (Garden Talk #102)

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In this episode of the Garden Talk podcast, host Chris, a.k.a. Mr. Grow It, interviews Tim McCormick, an expert gardener and owner of Cultured Biologics. The discussion revolves around techniques to enhance the flavor of home-grown plants. Tim shares insights on how environmental factors, such as lighting, humidity, and CO2 levels, as well as organic versus synthetic fertilizers, impact the terpene profiles and overall taste of plants. He also emphasizes the importance of sap content and breaks down the science behind various terpenes and flavonoids in plants. The conversation is rich with tips and scientific explanations beneficial for both novice and seasoned gardeners.

Highlights

Chris aka Mr. Grow It discusses flavor enhancement with gardening expert Tim McCormick. 🔍
Tim explains the role of sap, lighting, and fertilizers in plant flavor profiles. 💡
Organic fertilizers promote richer flavors compared to synthetic ones due to lower water content. 🚿
Discussion on the influences of microbial life in the soil and plant companionship on flavor. 🌿
Tips on Brix testing to measure sap content and predict flavor profiles. 📏

Key Takeaways

Lighting impacts terpene production; different lights affect plants' flavor profiles differently. ☀️
Environmental conditions like temperature, humidity, and CO2 impact flavor and plant health. 🌱
Organic fertilizers typically enhance flavors better than synthetic ones by maintaining better sap content. 🍏
Sap content and Brix levels are crucial; higher levels usually mean better flavor. 🍬
Microbiology in the soil and plant companionship can significantly influence the final taste. 🦠
Proper storage helps conserve terpenes, preventing flavor loss over time. 🏺

Overview

In this episode, Chris interviews seasoned gardener Tim McCormick, unraveling the secret recipe to boosting flavor in plants. The discussion highlights the impact of different environmental conditions, such as lighting and CO2 levels, on the flavor profiles by influencing terpene production.

Tim dives into the chemistry of flavor, explaining how organic fertilizers generally contribute to better flavor outcomes compared to synthetic ones. He emphasizes that the right balance of nutrients is vital and sheds light on the importance of sap content and Brix levels in predicting flavor quality.

The episode also explores how the soil's microbiology and plant companionships affect plant flavors. Tips on proper storage conditions to preserve flavors round off the episode, providing valuable insights for gardeners seeking to enhance their harvest.

Chapters

00:00 - 00:30: Introduction The chapter serves as an introduction to the Garden Talk podcast, a platform where growers from around the world are interviewed to share their gardening knowledge and practices. Chris, also known as Mr. Grow It, is hosting episode 102 featuring Tim McCormick, an experienced gardener and owner of Cultured Biologics, a company specializing in organic products.
00:30 - 02:00: Guest Introduction and Previous Episode Recap The chapter introduces a guest with an extensive background in horticulture, including chemistry, microbiology, plant physiology, soil science, entomology, and plant pathology. This is the guest's second appearance on the podcast, previously featuring in episode 41 discussing Bro Science versus Grow Science. In this episode, the discussion focuses on methods to enhance the flavor that plants produce, with the guest sharing various techniques to achieve a rich flavor profile in plants.
02:00 - 03:00: Sponsorship Acknowledgment In this chapter, the host begins by stating the goal of the podcast, which is to provide free gardening information to the public. The host then expresses gratitude to the sponsors of the episode, AEC Infinity, for their support. The sponsor's product, the Cloud Forge humidifier, is mentioned, specifically the Cloud Forge T3 model, highlighting its features such as a 4.5-liter capacity, top-fill design, and an included hose for external placement outside a grow tent.
03:00 - 04:00: Discussion on Plant Flavor Basics The chapter 'Discussion on Plant Flavor Basics' begins with an introduction to the Garden Talk podcast, featuring a conversation with Tim McCormick. It highlights the ease of controlling grow tent conditions via a smartphone-linked controller. The host shares a discount code for humidifiers.
04:00 - 05:00: Terpene Source and Composition The chapter titled 'Terpene Source and Composition' seems to reflect on a previous discussion in a popular episode of a series, which had garnered over 85,000 views, marking its success. The episode addressed 'Bro Science'—misconceptions or informal explanations—and the need to correct them, providing a light-hearted yet educational insight. The speaker reminisces about conversing with someone who reached out after watching the episode, highlighting its impact on viewers and the ongoing dialogues it inspires.
05:00 - 08:00: Lighting and Terpene Impact The chapter begins with a discussion about the lasting impact of a previous conversation, emphasizing its continued relevance. It then shifts to introduce a new hot topic: flavor enhancement in plants. The narrative reflects on how priorities have shifted over the past decade, from focusing solely on yield to incorporating considerations of flavor as a critical aspect of plant cultivation.
08:00 - 11:00: Environmental Conditions Impact on Terpenes The chapter titled 'Environmental Conditions Impact on Terpenes' begins with a discussion on enhancing plant flavors, specifically focusing on aroma and yield. Tim McCormick, the President and formulator of Culture Biologics, introduces himself and notes the episode's focus on various growth factors impacting flavor.
11:00 - 22:00: Fertilizer's Role on Flavor and Terpene Production The chapter discusses a biotechnology company focused on the innovation of microbial formulations and nutrient technology for growers. It emphasizes a culture that prioritizes customers and growers, highlighting that the founder developed fertilizers specifically for other growers.
22:00 - 31:00: Brix Levels and Plant Health The chapter starts by discussing the fundamental aspects of growing healthy plants, emphasizing the importance of understanding the source of a plant's flavor. It explains that the oil inside the plant's trichomes (glands) interacts with taste buds and the palette to produce flavor. The discussion quickly advances into more complex topics related to plant flavor production.
31:00 - 42:00: Microbiology's Impact on Terpenes This chapter delves into the influence of microbiology on terpenes, focusing on various types and their impact on flavor and aroma. It explores how different terpene varieties such as monot, di-, tri-, and sesquiterpenes contribute to flavor profiles. These terpenes can eventually transform into flavonoids. Additionally, the chapter discusses other compounds such as Esters and thiol compounds, which enhance the complexity of plant aromas, exemplified by familiar scents like skunk.
42:00 - 46:00: Companion Planting The chapter discusses chemical compounds in plants, particularly focusing on their oils and tissues, which contribute to the flavor profile of plants. It highlights how sap content within a plant contains various compounds that are responsible for these flavors. The act of burning or tasting flowers, fruits, or vegetables involves experiencing these biochemical compounds. The chapter underscores the complexity of these biochemically produced compounds from the moment of the plant's growth.
46:00 - 49:00: Ideal Storage Conditions for Terpenes The chapter discusses how plants act as biochemical machines from the time they are seeds until harvest, converting metals, ions, and molecules into complex flavorful, aromatic, and effective compounds known as terpenes. It emphasizes the impact of various factors on the terpene profile, starting with the role of lighting in influencing the production of terpenes.
49:00 - 53:00: Conclusion and Listener Information The chapter discusses terpenes, which are the aromatic compounds found in plants. It explains that plants produce terpenes to fend off potential threats such as animals and insects that may harm or consume the plants. Additionally, terpenes can also attract certain insects or animals, aiding in processes such as seed dispersal by enticing creatures to consume the seeds and subsequently deposit them elsewhere.

How To Increase Flavor In Your Plants! (Garden Talk #102) Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 welcome to the Garden Talk podcast where we interview Growers from all over the world both beginners and experts seeking to learn more about what they know about gardening and how they do things in their Garden what's up everybody if you that don't know me my name is Chris aka Mr grew it and you're tuned into the garden Talk podcast this is episode 102. in this episode I interview Tim McCormick he has been gardening for 12 years and is the owner of cultured biologics a company that formulates and manufactures an organic product line Tim
00:30 - 01:00 has an extensive background in Horticulture everything from chemistry microbiology plant physiology soil science entomology and Plant Pathology this actually Tim's second time on the podcast he was on episode 41 where he talked all about Bro Science versus grow science in this episode he talks all about increasing the flavor that plants produce there are various things that you can do to plants when growing them to increase their flavor profile Tim gets into all of that before we get into it I'll want to acknowledge that one of
01:00 - 01:30 my goals for this podcast is to bring free gardening information of all plants to the general public that being said I like to thank the sponsors of today's episode who helped make that goal possible thanks to aec Infinity for sponsoring this episode they now have humidifiers called the cloud Forge I've been using the cloud Forge T3 which has a 4.5 liter capacity and can be filled from the top it also includes a hose so you can place the humidifier outside your grow tent and feed the hose into
01:30 - 02:00 your grow tent saving you precious space it also connects to the controller 69 Pro so you can control it from your smartphone I'll have a link in the description section below so you can learn more about their humidifiers and the discount code Mr Grow at 15 works on both Amazon and their website AC infinity.com and we are back welcome to the Garden Talk podcast today I am joined with Tim McCormick how you doing today good good how are you doing good man thanks for asking this is your second time around uh so we did an episode all the way back
02:00 - 02:30 in episode 41 Bro Science versus gross science and I was just looking today at the number of views over 85 000 views on that episode it was definitely one of the top episodes and uh I remember there was a lot of stuff in that video that she just a lot of Bro Science that you had to dismiss there it was it was pretty funny it was a good one yeah that was a great episode I still get I just talked to a guy named Joe today he was like Hey I was watching your video on Mr Grow it and I just had to I had to message you and just talk to you about
02:30 - 03:00 the stuff you got you guys talked about because it was great so I still get traction from it today so it was a great episode man thank you uh so much good valuable information in there and I'm glad you decided to come back for another time around here and uh we had a real hot topic for you again here flavor how to bring off flavor within plants so uh I feel like you know 10 plus years ago it was all about yield right people are looking to do things differently to the plant in order to increase the yield but there wasn't as much focus on Flavor
03:00 - 03:30 as there is today I mean it's you know the more people we talk to how do I increase the flavor in my bones over acoustic smell in my plants and uh let's talk about yield in this episode we're gonna get into a lot of different things within the grow that impact flavor so I'm really excited for this one but first can you introduce yourself for those that didn't catch the first episode we did together yeah absolutely uh hi guys my name is Tim McCormick I am the President and formulator of culture biologics uh we're a unique fertilizer
03:30 - 04:00 and bio SSI company we really started off in doing microbes and putting our growth technology into the micro formulations and recently we've just launched our new nutrient technology so we're all about Innovation we're all about customers first Growers first you know I'm a grower that made fertilizers for other Growers so it's all about it's all about the culture for us it's all about everybody looking out for each
04:00 - 04:30 other and just trying to grow it the best the best plants possible awesome so getting into flavor I feel like we need to kind of start with the basics although it's going to get Advanced pretty quickly here um so touchless what is the source of the flavor that we get when consuming these plants sure yeah no it um the oil inside these trichomes these glands um is is a lot of what you're it's reacting with your taste buds and your palette um but you know there's there's so many things that go into producing actual
04:30 - 05:00 flavor what you're about what your palette is reacting with um a lot of this phenolic compounds you know only the the flavor of of the cannabinoids um to terpene Jeff mono die try sesquiterpenes um those all turn into those are all grained from small flavor molecules to large flavor molecules um and then those even will turn into flavonoids then we have Esters and thiol compounds like the skunk smell so there's a a multitude of compounds that are within the plant
05:00 - 05:30 um contained within the oil and even the plant tissue itself that that all lead up to to um to what the flavor is you know sap content is is a lot of where all these compounds will reside like the fluid inside the plant um so when you burn the the the the flower or when you're you're tasting all these uh molecules inside the fruit or vegetables or what have you um it's it's a range of compounds that the plants are biochemically producing um the plant from the time that it grows
05:30 - 06:00 from a seed to the time that you pick the fruit or harvest the plant it's a biochemical machine that is constantly taking metals and ions and other other simple molecules and turning them into these complex things that we that we call the taste and the the smells and the effect and there are various things that are said that impact the terpene profile right so we'll go through a list of things here but let's start with lighting can lighting impact the terpenes that are produced oh absolutely
06:00 - 06:30 um let's you know you got to think about what a terpene is you know it's the aromatics of the of the the plant um why do plants produce these you know plants produce them to Ward away um other animals other creatures that might want to infest the plant eat the plant um consume it it can act as a an attractant to other other insects and other other animals and other bugs to come eat it so it can digest the seed and deposit the seed but the terpene
06:30 - 07:00 itself is is a Finola compound that the plant produces inside the the oil gland and these oil glands are are are what we call secondary metabolites of the plant the the plant produces um resin and trichomes as a self-defense mechanism any bugs are trying to walk through the plant to eat the plant they'll get trapped up in the resin stuck and they can't move they can't really feed they can't do anything so the environment specifically the lighting
07:00 - 07:30 um is impacts the the the formation of the resin gland and what's inside the resin gland because if you get down to like the resin gland itself it's a sphere and it's a perfectly designed sphere so it can take in the UV radiation from the Sun and and diffract it and break it apart so the UV radiation doesn't touch the the plant tissue because UV radiation is is harmful to every every living organism and so plants produce um secondary metabolites like resin like trichome resin glands to help protect
07:30 - 08:00 itself from UV radiation so long story short lighting can absolutely impact the terpenes being produced the the active compounds inside these these resin glands the flavonoids any any type of compound inside these resin clamps can be directly impacted from the lighting itself which is why you see certain UV contents to indoor lighting because you need the UV radiation to signal to the plant that I need to produce trichomes
08:00 - 08:30 so I can perform a barrier between me and the UV radiation what that comes with with the terpenes themselves too so besides UV can any of the other spectrums of light impact the specific terpenes like do we have any control over that like limonene mercene and so on and so forth is there spectrum is light that trigger those specific types of terpenes yeah um sorry you see a lot of difference between LED lights and like CMH to HPS and the different resin
08:30 - 09:00 output you have thousand people put um you know the far Reds in their LED diodes to help trigger the plant into producing more more um more chemicals inside the oil gland trigger specific biochemical responses to the plant the the spectrum is like the plants growing outside get a completely different spectrum of light from from the colors to the UV radiation to everything in between that really affects the the compounds that the the
09:00 - 09:30 plants biochemically making I I personally believe that the photons and all the different spectrums outside it caused the plant to biochemically create different terpenes than you would inside different uh active compounds outside compared to inside I would say the color goes into it the the the the UV radiation goes into it the infrared goes into it everything everything regarding the light really goes into the production of of all these all these
09:30 - 10:00 active compounds that the plants are making that's super interesting now what about some of the environment conditions now of course Outdoors temperature humidity CO2 you don't have any control over that but for the indoor Growers they're doing things they're changing the temperature they're changing the humidity the CO2 levels are adjusting all that in order to try to get a better flavor can any of those environmental conditions impact the terpenes that are produced absolutely um you know your your CO2 level that the plant takes in is part of its it's it's
10:00 - 10:30 uh the ability to photosynthesize right ability to take compounds and convert them from photons convert them into sugars and pass those sugars along um your your airflow is is extremely important your humidity levels the amount of moisture the the plant can transpire at one time will dictates the nutrients being taken up which will dictate the chemo profile or the chemotype of the plant which is just you know the different mixtures or compounds
10:30 - 11:00 of the plant takes up over time inside your your environment is is going to dictate what the end result is going to so everything down to your CO2 to your air exchange to the type of photon the lights are going to put out are eventually going to create a different biochemical effect and result inside the plant probably more so indoors because you have to act like God and you have to fine tune all the little different details of everything whereas nature itself is just has been evolving millions and millions of years to to
11:00 - 11:30 perfectly condition provide the perfect condition for plants to grow and to mature and you know different latitudes and longitudes and um and and just generally how the plant is going to develop and and evolve you know indoors it's so much more fine-tuned and you can really see the Deep the how how much of an impact just even your CO2 levels will have your your par readings will have your um how much water the plant takes up
11:30 - 12:00 throughout the life cycle because that's hydrogen and oxygen content that the plant is going to turn into other molecules that have hydrogens and oxygens into it okay so for temperature and humidity and CO2 is there a specific temperature that you tell people to aim for and humidity that you tell name for and then CO2 level that you tell people aim for in order to get the most terpenes yeah a lot of comes down to environmental conditions that are favorable for for the plant just to do it naturally does you know we're aiding in the process of these plants growing you know we can't really control much
12:00 - 12:30 um you're kind of putting a so you can control your environment and then you put a plant there and it's going to react to whatever the the variables that the environment gets to and that's where your your phenotypical Expressions come from um everybody talks about phenotypes those phenotypes that I mean really if you want to get down to the phenotypes and like what the plant expresses like what terpenes it produces um is all dependent on what your environment is and different environments you can take the same same cultivar and just put it in a different environment and the plant will produce
12:30 - 13:00 more limonene or a plant produce more citrine or the plant will produce more miracine or beta-caraphylene you know and you the only thing you changed was the the lighting the CO2 and and the humidity inside of it and it will it will completely give you a different completely different flavor profile um or even just a slightly different profile and just give you a very slight different expression it was kind of the beauty of it you know is everybody's We're All Growers and we're all kind of
13:00 - 13:30 building these rooms and then they're kind of like a part of your soul goes into it and then you can see what you did and how a living organism responds to it my eyes that's like the coolest part of of growing is is being the curator of it um so I mean I like to keep my temperatures pretty stable I like it depending on you know your lights are gonna your Photon output is gonna tell you where to put your temperatures and where you're gonna put your your CO2 and to directly answer your question you know the young people 1200 1400 part per
13:30 - 14:00 million of CO2 ambient CO2 outside it's about 400 PPM you see people start at 700 and veg and go up to 12 1400 and and flower to keep up with the photosynthesis rates um then you have the LEDs output usually more efficient Photon usage and so the plant's getting a better spread of photons across the board and for it to hitting hitting the plant and Photon Nutri iteration goes into Elemental nutrition so what you're going to so
14:00 - 14:30 your LEDs that are going to be pushing the plant to its maximum growth rate is going to require higher temperatures it's going to require more CO2 and it's going to require more nutrients your plants are going to you know purple stem on you if you don't keep up with the nutrient load because energy is going to be used up taking care of the photons hitting the plant so um you know and humidity too dry the plant is going to suffer to moisture you're going to grow mold so you got I like to stick between the 40 to 60
14:30 - 15:00 percent range as far as humidity goes all these Factor really goes down to the type of cultivar you're growing the variety because those are going to some come from dry areas some come from very wet tropical areas and it really depends on what you're growing as far as the type of environment and the type of Lights the humidity whatever you're going to be throwing at the plant the plant is going to buy chemically take that and create that into its own profile understood so going right down
15:00 - 15:30 the line of fertilizer I want to get into that one next you touched upon it now there's more and more people going towards the organic side of things now there's people who swear that if you're given the plant an organic fertilizer organic regimen it's going to create a better terpene profile on the other side you got people using synthetics that are saying no the Organics break down to the same exact molecule that they're and then the plants up taking it so there's no difference there what's your thoughts on that can the fertilizer impact
15:30 - 16:00 terpenes at all oh yeah and this is this is a very deep Rabbit Hole um so everybody hang on um we're gonna we're gonna go from a very macro perspective of this and then we're going to dive deep into each of the synthetics what it's doing for the plant and the Organics what it's doing for the plant because they're right molecules break down to molecules right and it's like the simplest form but ratios are important important and the type of molecule is important and nitrogen is not just nitrogen so
16:00 - 16:30 just generally speaking when it comes to plant nutrition your your elements that you give the plant are going to be what the plant turns into enzymes that are going to create all these terpenes so if you have a your micronutrient profile believe it or not is going to be a very a very important factor and to what the plant creates because manganese and magnesium are both used in the process to make phenolic compounds to make
16:30 - 17:00 terpenes and flavonoids and and even active compounds inside the plant so everything down to the elements that you are using is going to give you a different if you if you're if you have a is it going to give you a different terpene output a different flavonoid output a different even um uh antioxidant output and blueberries because all of these elements are what allows the plant to buy a can we turn into something so just 20 macro macro view 20 000 feet your nutrient profiles
17:00 - 17:30 that you use are going to have a direct impact on the flavor and the terpenes that the plant is going to to to create um so when you get down to it though so making sure you have the right blend micronutrient blend to macro blend to secondary element blend is really important a lot of times you have these um improper proportions of of micronutrients and the answer is more
17:30 - 18:00 calmac because micro because magnesium can supplement to the plant a function that manganese does so you know both of these elements you have to have things in the proper balance first and foremost secondarily nitrogen assaults are probably the um The Plight to to getting flavor inside the plants if you're using a high
18:00 - 18:30 nitrate load High urea High ammonia the plants you're going to have to increase the water load so much inside the plant that it's going to do without the sap so what we see with like forage for example um you know like like Alfalfa the first chop is always the best when you grow Alfalfa from seed and that's because the plant has the sap doesn't have doesn't need all the extra nutrients that we put
18:30 - 19:00 after you cut it the first time for like the second crop for it to grow back and we find that when you start applying nitrogen assaults like nitrates like urea ammonium nitrate the plant's water load goes up a ton and what ends up happening is that all the sap which contains all the flavor which contains all your total dissolved solids is going to get diluted out with water now so yes molecules break down to molecules but when you start pumping
19:00 - 19:30 nitrates into the plant the plant's water load increases to the point where any flavor you did have is is getting washed out now and this is why you see a lot of hydronutrients produce crops that taste very similar because we rely on our our cargo loads we rely on our sweeteners to give the plant a form of carbon to kind of catch the bricks level up for the amount of the amount of water load going up Mississippi state did a
19:30 - 20:00 really cool study on forage and their first cut they didn't put any application of nitrogen assaults down the bricks level is about 12 which is D which is good for for like grass after they did one application of ammonium nitrate it dropped from 12 percent to seven percent the brics level did and that's because we're diluting out the sap content the total dissolved solids of the plant with the increased nitrogen assaults bringing the water load up so it's not that like you're
20:00 - 20:30 using chemicals and the chemicals are causing the plant to produce a bad flavor it's that we're just increasing the water load to the point where once we dry it we just diluted out all of our our flavor molecules to the plant so when you look at organic growing so it's like the synthetic rabbit hole right is in order to get the the potassium the phosphorus all these micro elements the calcium into the plant we need to increase everything's attached to nitrate molecule which brings a ton of water with it which more more nutrients
20:30 - 21:00 more water so technically just diluting everything out and the organic side of things you don't have nitrogen assaults the way you do um these these synthetic fertilizers or the salt based fertilizers your nitrogen assaults are wrapped up in guanos is wrapped up in blood meal there's carbon there's there's other molecules that are attached to it so it's not just a free load of nitrates just getting pushed into your plant nitrates are important ammonia is important for the plant to produce into different compounds you know the plant functions and lives off
21:00 - 21:30 nitrates I mean hell the the lightning hitting the sky and take taking the water molecules and conducting electrolysis takes the oxygen in the sky and the nitrogen in the sky combines it into nitrate to the nitrate train down on us all the time and that's why after a rain you see the plants start growing like really really well it's because they just got showered with light amounts of nitrates because nitrates are a part of our part of Nature and they're part of our society the problem though and this is why organic soil grown
21:30 - 22:00 ultimately is is more flavorful is because we don't have the amount of nitrates getting pushed into the plant so the plant has more bricks more sap content and that's where all the flavor is that's where all your Finola compounds are that are going to get turned into active compounds or terpenes or flavonoids or Esters or Styles they all are retained within the sap of the plant and the biggest difference between soil growing and and say saltgrim is the nitrate load including out the flavor
22:00 - 22:30 that the plant naturally has so you mentioned sap you mentioned bricks let's get deeper into that I do have a lot of beginners that tune into this podcast and they might not be aware of what you what you're talking about zap bricks what is that and how do you measure it and you know how does that really relate to the flavor I mean you kind of touched on a little bit I don't know if there's anything else to be said about that yeah no absolutely um it's not a common practice to look at the bricks level instead of a plant for for um for the hydroponic industry you know
22:30 - 23:00 we we want to go for yields and that's usually where we where we get to with it and that's where it stops um because your bricks level isn't going to tell you what your yield's going to be in fact there's usually a a trade-off High bricks usually means lower yielding plants um but bricks itself is the essentially the total dissolved solids of the plant um we're putting you know calcium we're putting different minerals different
23:00 - 23:30 ions into the plant and the plant is going to have different amino acids and proteins and lipids and tannins and phenolic compounds that get turned into terpenes and other active compounds and all those are loaded within the sap of the plant um the fluid of the plant like like the blood in in humans is like the the saffron side plants and so naturally you know if we have if humans have thin blood or if we have blood that is low in iron or we have something's wrong with
23:30 - 24:00 our blood something is very wrong with the human body same thing with plants where if our sap level is thinned out or your total dissolved solids is is lower than where it should be that's where plants are going to start getting attacked by pests and that's where the plants are going to start getting uh picked out and itemized by the different insects that are migrating throughout the year are growing in in that area in the Brix level is a the bricks a Brix test is a test that we use to to see
24:00 - 24:30 ourselves where the nutrient where the total dissolved solid level is within the plant so it's a positive correlation so you know you have higher total dissolved solids you have a higher Brix content which means the plant has more molecules inside of itself to protect itself from from pathogens um from different insects itself pests don't prefer the the plants with a hybrids level because they have antimicrobials and and compounds are not attractive to the insects itself
24:30 - 25:00 um so we we we measure the health of the plant based on the brics level now we we in agriculture we will use this on grapes to see what the sugar content is because dissolved sugar inside the sap is one of the the the contents that we measure inside the Brix test so we measure fruits and vegetables with Brix testing to see whether this where the sugar levels at wine making wine they're
25:00 - 25:30 huge into bricks testing forage to measure how much nutrients is in the grass that we feed the cattle um is we use a Brix test for that so it's really telling us how many molecules are in the plant at one time and higher water content means lower nutrient which means lower the nutrient density inside the plant is at a lower rate and so that tells us we need to do we need to adjust what we're feeding the plant to increase the bricks level so
25:30 - 26:00 it's just it simply put it's just a measurement that we can just tell the general overall health and dissolve solids within the plant and so the sap is is the fluid that we can that we can taste the thing about Hot House tomato you know you have a tomato that's uh the the the the fleshy uh or light red very watery tomatoes our bricks test on that is going to be way low that's mostly water that's why tomatoes taste like water now because we
26:00 - 26:30 grow them with salt with nitrogen and salts you know and when you have a nice Organic Grown tomato it's it's deep red and it has it has acidity acidity to it and it has flavor to it and real tomatoes taste like a fruit and not like a watery fleshy meaty you know vegetable we want to make sure that the plants that we are growing hydroponically in our industry are having a higher bricks content compared to having a higher EC
26:30 - 27:00 content inside in inside the medium or inside the reservoir so it's a practice that we don't see a lot of inside the hydroponic industry that we should see a lot more of because that's ultimately what's going to tell us like where the flavor's at at the end of the plant's life understood yeah I've heard about bricks and how it relates to pests for example I've heard that if it's 12 or greater pests won't attack the plant as it would with a plant with lower bricks levels but I didn't know bricks actually relates also relates to the terpene
27:00 - 27:30 content in the plant so that's super interesting I know you need a bricks refractometer in order to actually do the measurements you can get that online I think Amazon you get a cheap one for like 20 bucks or you can get a digital one for I think it's like 150-ish bucks those digital ones are really cool actually do you think all people should be having one of those and testing the plants I think it's a great tool to have and as a grower we should have every tool we can you know we should have pH probes that go into our soil that tell
27:30 - 28:00 us the the pH of our soil which have EC probes you should have PH meters for water you know we should have every tool we can possibly have I prefer the digital ones for three refractometers especially when it comes to plant like plant matter and not um not fruit or vegetables when you're measuring plant matter I like the digital ones because they're a little bit better at reading compared to your eyes seeing it refracting all the sugars and things refracting inside the scope and then how often should they
28:00 - 28:30 be doing a Brix test I mean if they take a test today for example then do a change within that Garden one's an appropriate time to do the next test so the the best way I look at it is we want to use this as a part of our eyes like you're taking soil slurries or measuring runoff and that's your eyes for what's in the the pot you also want to have your eyes what's in the plant money this isn't going to tell you how many terpenes you have it's only going to tell you how many calciums you have or
28:30 - 29:00 how many sugars you have inside your plant it's just going to give you a vision of overall plant health and when you're going through um you know stressful times it's it's just helpful to see where the plant's at and and and and its General Health I like the digital ones specifically for plant matter because it's uh it's still more accurate as far as like what's in the plant itself and you don't have to use your eyes but more so
29:00 - 29:30 um it's really hard to squeeze plant matter and get the juice out of it um so I usually have like you only need like a drop or two of of the sap of the plant so I usually take like a garlic press and just pack it in there and just squeeze um and it's like one or two drops because on the digital reader and it just tells you immediately what it is zero guesswork um Hannah makes a great instrument for that um also along with with the the type of instrument
29:30 - 30:00 um you also want to make sure that you're using the proper part of the plant um so plants are always changing they're always always evolving they're always developing further so I like to do it once a week kind of just test on on my my bricks just to see where the plant's at and I can usually see a deficiency before it happens by measuring the bricks just because the plant will start to utilize its reserves and it'll start to um it'll tell you it'd be kind of be like a
30:00 - 30:30 quick a quick tip before the plant you know starts to show speckling or a plant starts to show yellowing leaves but you know once a week Works once every other week also works um just the plant changes so fast so often that you just want to have just a frequent and like it takes two seconds um you can take a leaf or take a petiole which is probably the better place to to take the the con the sample from um and then press it and get a drop or two out and let the reading tell you where you're at okay that's pretty
30:30 - 31:00 straightforward I do want to work back to the fertilizer question because I have a follow-up question on that one I know there's going to be some people who in the comments who are going to be um distraught maybe that's that's a good word for it hearing that information but really my question is how do consumers kind of avoid the bad fertilizers right is there something that they can look on the back of the bottle and they could see like okay this includes this I know this is going to be a harmful form of nitrogen that that Tim had mentioned you
31:00 - 31:30 know how do they establish what's good and what's bad as far as fertilizers sure um you can look at the back label and look at the nitrate load go to the guaranteed analysis and look at how much of the nitrogen is nitrate derived how much of a urea derived how much of it is ammonia derived um I prefer carbon-based nitrogen which is protein nitrogen you do need a you do need a source of of nitrates usually it's in your soil with like what you amend it with so you don't need to add
31:30 - 32:00 nitrates on top but the best way if you're looking at bottled fertilizer is look at your nitrate load look if they're using any amino acids or if they're using any type of protein nitrogen in there that's first and foremost second secondarily uh look for ingredients that are that are natural that are carbon derived um one of the biggest factors on the plant producing terpenes and other other carbon-based molecules is the amount of
32:00 - 32:30 carbon you're feeding it and with Organic soils you can have you know humus and compost and worm castings in there that are constantly leaching carbon for the plant to take up and to turn into your terpenes and flavonoids and active molecules um so you know make sure biggest thing is making sure you're not just using salts making sure there's some type of carbon form in there um you know if you see everything derived from
32:30 - 33:00 nitrate phosphates EDTA micronutrients you're gonna have a high a high water low to getting into your plant and I wouldn't call it bad fertilizers per se um I would I would mostly just put them in a specific category they're conventional fertilizers and they're going to do what conventional products do um which is create a high biomass but a low bricks content which means you're going to yield really well it's all
33:00 - 33:30 going to taste like cardboard it's all going to taste like water um you're like growing tomatoes in soil compared to growing tomatoes hydroponically with some of these bad fertilizers your your tomatoes grown hydroponically with these with these salt Blends are going to come out very Bland in flavor you know that's why we see bad tomatoes everywhere now because they're all grown with salts and that's why you know you grow um a tomato with with Organic Soil with
33:30 - 34:00 amendments with carbon-based nutrients you're going to have the the acidity increase you're going to have all the antioxidants increase you're gonna have all the active molecules inside any of the fruits and vegetables are going to go off the chart by using ingredients that are more carbon based so if you see Rock phosphate right A lot of times these Rock phosphates are are are are good because they slowly slowly Leach phosphorus into the soil which allows the microorganisms to to start feeding
34:00 - 34:30 on the Rock phosphate and the microorganisms will start exuding all these different carbon-based molecules if we just use salts to grow plants the plant doesn't have any carbon to use to convert into terpenes so your terpene synthesis your pathway goes from monoterpenes all the way over to sesquiterpenes small to large terpene molecules the plant only has a certain amount of carbon it's going to make it into small lightweight molecules
34:30 - 35:00 and you're not going to have the spectrum that uh plant with the carbon load is going to be able to create so um long story short is is is tend to tailor away from nitrate-based fertilizer systems and so if you're looking at the back of the label just go with the low nitrate profile you know usually that means you're going to be top dressing usually that means you're going to be using protein-based nitrogen but it's important to start making that change now compared to continue producing the
35:00 - 35:30 same crop with the same flavor as everybody else and and not be satisfied so I mean nitrates are good for producing bioass nitrates are not good for producing a bricks content like I said we saw and so at the end of that Mississippi State study that I I mentioned before I did the three applications of urea ammonium nitrate as one control as ammonium nitrate as another control and then just left the crop by itself and it
35:30 - 36:00 went from with every application of a nitrogen assault it went from 12 bricks content which is good down to seven percent down to six percent down to low six percent by the third application so cut your bricks level in half but your yield almost doubled um compared to the control so it really is trying it's what you're gonna what you're going for right not so nice to have a hard time with the bad fertilizer thing because it's not bad it's just conventional and it's just going to give
36:00 - 36:30 you uh it's just going to give you a specific result and we should just go into it knowing that we're going to get a lackluster crop in the end but we're going to get a lot out of it understood hey man you you make me think because I did learn a little bit about terpenes in school I went to Utah State University just their online program for their cultivation certificates under Dr Bruce bugby and there is a video on terpene synthesis and so I learned about the five carbon building block terpene and then you've got 10 carbon building block and 15 carbon building block right you just mentioned those what I learned is
36:30 - 37:00 that what you just said is that these fertilizer programs they're building just five carbon they're mostly going to build a five carbon building block right those are more volatile so you're more likely to lose those than the 10 or the 15 carbon block terpenes and I don't have all the memorize which ones are which you know know what's laminate what's mercy and so on and so forth but it just got me thinking a little bit if the fertilizer if the sulfate fertilizers that you're using is causing the plant to create more five carbon building block terpenes well then you
37:00 - 37:30 more chance of losing them particularly during like drying curing storing and stuff like that I'm still consuming medicine uh from a year ago that I've had cured up and that's just because the the car are carbon-based nutrients give massive amounts of very very small forms of carbon that the plant can use to turn into those 15 carbon building blocks um for those terpenes or for the flavonoids and mind you it will go from the small terpenes to the large terpenes and that's the same pathway all the way
37:30 - 38:00 through then it goes to flavonoids and then it goes to more complex Esters and it's this daisy chain effect and if the plant is deficient on carbon the plant is only going to use whatever carbon it can to create small molecules and not give you the the shelf life like some of these other molecules like these longer 15 carbon chain molecules can and I think that's really goes to show like um what what nutrients can really do in in the production of of
38:00 - 38:30 terpenes but there's another study out there showing the relationship between magnesium and manganese and how the plant produced more developed more more longer change terpenes was just the addition of magnesium to the manganese and it kind of goes to show that like whatever the bio the biochemical process making all these terpenes and flavonoids inside the plant really they really really does depend on the nutrient content that the plant has or do what
38:30 - 39:00 what's the balance of micronutrients the secondary elements well how much carbon content does the plant have to take up and to use as precursors um so it really comes down to I think the the what you're giving the plant for it to be able to create in the end are you giving it nitrates that are going to be really good for biomass creation but it's not going to give the plant very much as far as like terpene synthesis or flavonoid or any of these other active molecule antioxidant compounds and
39:00 - 39:30 blueberries you know um I think I think it really comes down to you get you get out what you put in type of thing it's wild yeah learn it learn so much on this one and just connecting the dots on a lot of things let's move on there's a few more things that certainly can impact terpenes that I want to get into so microbiology I've heard that you know the microbes in the soil can actually impact the terpene profile number one is that true number two is there a specific Consortium of microbes that impact the flavor certain
39:30 - 40:00 terpenes being produced I would say all microbes I mean the the really cool part about microbes is they really exude purely carbon-based molecules all our enzymes carbon based all their organic acids carbon-based acetic acid acetobacter bacteria acetic acid is extremely important for the for as a simple acid for the plant to turn into all its biological molecules carboxylic
40:00 - 40:30 acids are are what the plant will release from the root system to go find elements and once these carboxylic acids the root oxidates match up with these elements it sends a flag saying hey I'm one of yours and the plant can take it up at that point bacteria and then fungi even break down molecules consume them wrap them into carbon and excrete them out into a carbon-based molecule so that's really why all of these um all these microorganisms throughout the world
40:30 - 41:00 um indigenously inside the soil and the ones we're using will have an impact on on the flavor produced inside the crop um there's I can't remember who did it but there was a study how to find it I'll send it to you it's a really cool study on uh grapes and they're making wines out of I think it's in Chile and they're making wines out of two different soil compost the two different three two three different regions of soil what they ended up doing is taking these regions of soil growing um a crop in it with the microbes are
41:00 - 41:30 thriving and they took the same soil and they they nuked it they completely killed any contortion and they made a sterile soil out of it the the bricks level in in the grapes when they measure the sugar content it was like half the sugar content the normal the normal grapes were in fact they had way less tannins they had way less all the whole spectrum of molecules completely changed within the grape plant all because they sterilized the soil uh so I would even
41:30 - 42:00 go into saying that like you know the the soil profile itself is really important um it's like grapes grown in France is different than grapes growing in Chile and chili grapes are different than the ones and um Italy and you see that not only does the the complex the the elements inside the soil matter but what really really comes down to is the spectrum of microorganisms inside the soil because that's what produces all the carbon-based molecules around the
42:00 - 42:30 root system that the plant's going to take up and to turn into all these flavors and and all these dissolved solids within the plant itself so the microbes play I would say just as big as a role as the elements you put into the plant as far as um how the plant the flavor profile is going to come out and the terpene production is going to come out and the sugar content is going to be produced inside the crop what are your thoughts on like the bottled microbial inocula instead of being sold that are kind of a lot of more limited in the diversity versus if you go out your backyard do
42:30 - 43:00 the IMO process you can get so much more diversity yeah I think it the the more diverse complex of microorganisms you have the more complex the Aromas and the flavors are going to come out um I also think that goes into active compound synthesis so uh making all the favorite compounds we have in our medicinal plants and all the antioxidants and the blueberries and things that keep us healthy um really come down to the Consortium of bacteria and fungi and Archaea and and
43:00 - 43:30 nematodes and and everything protozoa and all the the organisms that are part of their food chain that they all eat each other and cycle through inside the soil I think all of those really go down to getting the plant access remember it's about what you get out what you put in so all those those little machines those little microbes are giving the plant a a wide variety of Consortium of organic molecules carbon-based molecules that the plant can take up and synthesize into whatever they want that's why an
43:30 - 44:00 inoculated crop whether it's a bottle or whether you use indigenous soils they're always going to produce a better flavor crop than using a sterilizing agent like cleanse all the time and just constantly nuking everything and you just depend has no available organic compound to synthesize as a precursor into these flavors into the the sugars into the terpenes I mean I like a lot of the the bottles of inoculants out there I
44:00 - 44:30 think you're always going to get a better profile inside an indigenous soil and just curating that indigenous soil with other carbon-based ingredients prebiotics implant proteins animal proteins things that can wake wake up the soil essentially you're always going to have a way better consortia of organic compounds around your plants with all those microbes breeding and growing like crazy compared to a sterilized
44:30 - 45:00 athena-based crop you know where they they pre they push sterility in your Grow rooms um they want you to just to use their their salt Blends and keep everything sterile and I think that is completely ignorant to what nature does and how Nature has evolved over the years because it's supposed to your plants are supposed to have endophytes and and and ecophytic bacteria around the root systems it's supposed to have a mycorrhizae relationship they're
45:00 - 45:30 supposed to be Rock phosphate in the soils that the mycorrhizae can latch onto and consume and directly inject the phosphorus into the root system of the plant I think there's there's you know a bottled consortia of these microorganisms is way better than no contortion at all got it and kind of relating to what you had said you know the mycorrhizal network down in the medium companion plant so I want to get into that because that is said to actually have an impact on terpene
45:30 - 46:00 synthesis right so for example strawberries if you're growing strawberries next to a medicinal plant some say that you could potentially get a terpene profile simulated strawberries in that medicinal plant what are your thoughts on that um you know I I think there's something to say um for um root exudates and and different plants talking to each other and sharing uh nutrition and and and organic molecules I think other plants
46:00 - 46:30 will also attract a different consortia of uh microbiology around the different rhizospheres of the plant you know certain certain crops will have a certain natural um like beans having a natural Lagoon um uh loving bacteria is odobacter bacteria you know they they legumes promote nitrogen fixation microbes cover crops you know I think I think it's I
46:30 - 47:00 think plants naturally will want to interact with each other inside an ecosystem so when you start putting different plants together I think naturally they're gonna they're gonna share and they're gonna be different than them by themselves absolutely got it there's a few more things I want to get into and we could talk about this topic for hours if we really wanted to but uh dude I know ideal storage conditions and order to conserve terpenes right so if you're not storing it in the proper conditions like
47:00 - 47:30 I kind of mentioned a little bit earlier these turkeys can volatile right you can lose them and when you go into your grow room and you're smelling those are terpenes volatizing so like the storage side of things I think is often overlooked um you know there's a lot of focus on drying proper drying conditions curing having the right moisture content but storage a lot of people I feel like neglect unfortunately and they're losing a lot of that terpene profile just volatizing away so what's the ideal storage condition in order to conserve
47:30 - 48:00 terpenes so I struggle and me and the rest of the state I mean probably four state area on this side of the um the side of the United States to Colorado Arizona New Mexico Utah area um in Nevada we struggle with having any humidity here um it's we're lucky to get 30 humidity most days and really good storage conditions is about 60 percent um inside your jars and of course the biggest thing is is
48:00 - 48:30 um the UV radiation UV is very very very good at breaking apart molecules um so usually clear jars stuck out in the sunlight are going to volatile as terpenes way faster than anything else move faster than heat way faster than ambient um arid environments I think a lot of it what you need to do is keep in a cool dark place and keep it as
48:30 - 49:00 once you once you cure it or once you dry it to a certain to a certain extent making sure that it stays in a sealed container no plastic plastic leeches so bad and because plastic is Petro based molecules it's carbon-based molecules all these terpenes are going to evaporate and Purge through the the plastic so plastic is your enemy use glass I like amber glass personally and I like to keep my stuff in in a drawer or like a in a tote and just keep them
49:00 - 49:30 in a cool dry spot pretty straightforward all right so let's wrap things up tell Alice how can the listeners find you and what do you have upcoming in the future oh man uh lots of good stuff you can find us um through our Discord uh if you guys have a profile you can come out to our Discord and come chat with us there we have a lot of really good uh uh literature that that's based on that our products are based on I post all our literature there we have really good Community we do giveaways there we have a discount code for our Discord users
49:30 - 50:00 um generally just a place where we can all talk to each other we're very active on Instagram so you can go to um cul.tur.ed on Instagram and you can come find us and talk to us and see all the cool things we're up to um we've been doing a lot of product videos how to's um showing people how these powders dissolve into water um our YouTube also uh youtube.com backslash culturebiologics uh we're putting a bunch of good product videos and a bunch of uh just general uh
50:00 - 50:30 frequently asked questions on there so everybody has a source for all of our videos and all of our science and just documented stuff that we're trying to get out there for everybody to kind of learn and understand awesome well if you're tuning in on YouTube I'll definitely have a link to his YouTube channel down in the description section below of this video If you enjoyed this video click that Thumbs Up Button also subscribe to the channel if you haven't already every single weekend I'm releasing a new Garden Talk podcast episode I'd love for you to tune into
50:30 - 51:00 future episodes Tim we might have to do a part three you know we have to let's do it there's more we could have got into for sure I actually know that there were some questions left on the previous episode maybe in the next episode we can go over some of those and then I guess if you guys have any questions tuning into this leave those questions in the comment section on the YouTube video and I'll go through that and hey maybe next time around it's just kind of like a q a type thing where we're just firing off a bunch of
51:00 - 51:30 scientific based questions at you because you're no knowledge when it comes to the science is very deep and I'm glad that you sat here today and we were able to get some of that out of you yeah no I appreciate you having me on I I really enjoy our conversations and all the feedback I get from everybody and I like you know just helping out I got all this stuff in my head and I'd like to be able to get out and share with everybody because I find it helpful yeah it's fun and I learned a lot and I'm sure my audience learned a lot as well so once
51:30 - 52:00 again thank you and uh yeah peace out everyone we'll catch you in the next episode