IKEA love wood

Summary

IKEA is under scrutiny for its logging practices in forests, particularly in Romania, where clear-cutting procedures are allegedly disguised as sustainable forestry efforts. Gabriel, an environmental activist and representative of Agent Green, highlights the discrepancies between IKEA's claims of sustainable practices and the actual impact on the Romanian forests. The documentary sheds light on illegal and aggressive logging, the inadequacies of FSC certifications, and the broader implications of IKEA's massive wood consumption globally. Amidst accusations, IKEA maintains their actions aim to be beneficial for both the economy and environmental preservation.

Highlights

• Gabriel from Agent Green reveals massive clear-cutting by IKEA in Romanian forests 🌳
• IKEA's use of 'substitute cutting' is questioned as a method of sustainable forestry 🪓
• The dangers and threats faced by environmental activists like Gabriel show the risky nature of exposing illegal activities 🔍
• IKEA's claim of responsible forestry through FSC certification is challenged, citing flaws and inadequacy 🛡️
• Massive timber consumption by IKEA continues to impact global forests significantly 🌍

Key Takeaways

• IKEA's forestry practices in Romania raise serious sustainability and ethical concerns 🌳
• Environmental activist Gabriel risks his life to expose the reality of Romanian deforestation 🕵️
• FSC certification, relied upon by IKEA, is criticized for its lax standards and potential greenwashing 💚
• The global demand for IKEA's 'cheap and fast furniture' raises questions about sustainable business models 🌐
• Efforts to hold IKEA accountable highlight the ongoing struggle for environmental transparency and accountability 📢

Overview

In the heart of Romania, the lush landscapes are at the center of controversy where IKEA, known for its commitment to sustainability, is accused of clear-cutting forests. This exposé, led by Tom Heinemann, dives into the profound impacts of IKEA's logging practices under the guise of sustainable operations.

Gabriel, a key member from Agent Green, illustrates the stark contrast between IKEA’s public image of eco-friendly operations and the reality on the ground. Despite claiming adherence to responsible forestry, documentary evidence suggests otherwise, showcasing both illegal activities and severe environmental disruption in Romanian natural reserves.

The documentary underlines the alarming scale of IKEA's wood consumption, questioning the credibility of FSC certifications and the ethical implications of such extensive exploitation. With IKEA's stance on sustainable growth contrasted with footage and first-hand accounts implicating significant ecological harm, viewers are left to ponder the true cost of IKEA’s business model.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction and Context The chapter titled 'Introduction and Context' begins with music playing in the background, setting a relaxed or reflective tone. As the audio progresses, the speaker transitions into a scene describing what seems to be an outdoor, natural setting reminiscent of a forest, specifically comparing it to an 'Ikea Forest.' The chapter likely sets the stage for a more detailed exploration of the setting's metaphorical or thematic significance.
• 00:30 - 01:30: Exploring the IKEA Forest In this chapter titled 'Exploring the IKEA Forest,' the narrator discusses identifiable features in the area, such as green panels used to indicate private property, which are a distinct marker. There is an interruption as a car approaches, indicating that the exploration is actively taking place. The setting suggests a narrative focused on navigating or understanding boundaries in a forest setting associated with IKEA.
• 01:30 - 02:30: Encounter with Security Issues A journalist from Denmark recounts an encounter while filming on private land. They mention being confronted and informed that filming is not allowed in that area. The encounter raises security concerns related to filming on private property.
• 02:30 - 03:30: Discussion with Gabriel from Agent Green This chapter focuses on a discussion with Gabriel, a representative from Agent Green. The conversation is marked by a strong emotional response, as indicated by repeated exclamations such as 'oh my God.' This suggests that the interaction or the topics discussed might be surprising or impactful to the narrator or participants. However, much of the specific content of this dialogue is redacted or unclear, highlighting the secrecy or sensitivity of the subject matter at hand.
• 03:30 - 05:00: Concerns about IKEA's Forestry Practices The chapter discusses concerns regarding IKEA's forestry practices in Romania. It reveals that IKEA owns a large section of forest that is planned for clear-cutting. The conversation highlights a tension between the company's actions—clear-cutting the forest—and their stated love for wood and forests. The focus is on the potential environmental impact of these practices and the intention of some, possibly activists or environmentalists, to 'save the forest.'
• 05:00 - 06:30: Illegal Logging and Regulatory Issues The chapter titled 'Illegal Logging and Regulatory Issues' opens with a series of musical interludes and applause, setting an intriguing tone for the discussion to follow. However, the transcript does not provide further textual information about the content of this chapter. It suggests a setting or atmosphere perhaps linked to a presentation or event, where the topic of illegal logging and related regulatory challenges is set to be discussed. The absence of dialogue or details in the transcript brings into focus anticipation for a deep dive into issues surrounding illegal logging and the complexities of regulations aimed at addressing these illicit activities.
• 06:30 - 08:00: Personal Experiences and Testimonies Gabriel, with a background in nature sciences, shares his personal testimony. He is the founding member of the Romanian environmental NGO, Agent Green. The chapter highlights a poignant scene where Gabriel is in the midst of a clearcut area done by Ikea, providing a visceral representation of environmental impact. This setup underlines the gravity of deforestation and corporate responsibility, emphasizing personal experiences in environmental advocacy.
• 08:00 - 09:30: Challenges with Sustainable Practices The chapter titled 'Challenges with Sustainable Practices' focuses on the misleading nature of certain sustainable certifications. Despite claims of sustainable forestry practices, the reality is often starkly different. The chapter highlights a case where an entire forest cover has been removed except for a single biotop tree, which has been left to maintain a facade of sustainability under FSSE certification. The narrative critiques such practices as unsustainable, posing questions about the authenticity of products and furniture claiming to be sustainably sourced from such regions. The chapter calls into question the integrity of widely accepted sustainable practices and certifications in the forestry and furniture industries.
• 09:30 - 11:00: Conclusions and Reflections on IKEA's Model This chapter concludes by emphasizing IKEA's commitment to sustainable and responsible forest management. It describes their love for wood due to its durability, recyclability, and natural beauty. By engaging in responsible forest management, IKEA aims to combat climate change and positively impact the future of forests and the communities surrounding them.

IKEA love wood Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] [Music] so this is an Ikea Forest yeah you can
• 00:30 - 01:00 tell by the green um green panels it's only them that uses this to warn people off that private [Music] property oh car coming
• 01:00 - 01:30 for I'm a journalist from Denmark he said it's it's on a it's private land and we're not supposed to film [Music]
• 01:30 - 02:00 [ __ ] [ __ ] sh oh my God oh my God oh my God
• 02:00 - 02:30 this entire Forest is owned by Ikea yes but soon all this area is going to be clear cuted is that because we've been here you're in Romania to actually save the forests yes absolutely we love wood and we love forests
• 02:30 - 03:00 [Music] [Applause] [Music] that was hot yeah [Music]
• 03:00 - 03:30 [Music] we stop in front of the camera H my name is Gabriel uh I have a university and Post University degree in nature sciences and I'm the founding member of Romanian environmental NGO agent green I'm seting in the middle of a clearcut done by Ikea right after they
• 03:30 - 04:00 bought it the entire Forest cover has been removed so there is no more trees left it's just one tree over there and this is what they call fsse Certified because they left the biotop tree it's not sustainable forestry and it's not sustainable products and Furniture you are using right now if it comes from places like this Ika we love
• 04:00 - 04:30 w we love wood because it is durable renewable recyclable and beautiful because we know that responsible Forest management helps to combat climate change we make a difference for the future of the forests and the people living around them
• 04:30 - 05:00 [Applause] speea
• 05:00 - 05:30 [Music] it's important to manage forests in a sustainable way because forests are really important are a part of the ecosystem I mean of uh of land in Europe which used to be covered by tremendous amounts of forest we have cut most of them down this has repercussions on biodiversity on carbon storage on
• 05:30 - 06:00 people people's well-being companies like Ikea that claim to be sustainable have to actually ensure that they're meeting both the ecological social and economic dimensions of sustainability
• 06:00 - 06:30 we we try to do good things for the forest I would say that Gans is one of the most beautiful mountains in the world they have a very good balance in altitude and with Forest very mild
• 06:30 - 07:00 environment is not that harsh land forms Waters lakes waterfalls vegetation FAA that was formed during the centuries so why we need to destroy that very quickly now this is why I set up a big group in frania for all of the researchers work in life science and uh Earth science to
• 07:00 - 07:30 try to collaborate together and to improve the things in Romania in order the protection and conservation of environment especially because we are facing a lot of problem Gabriel pound agent green The Forest of ik start from here I
• 07:30 - 08:00 think I think so so better F bed for me so Gabby where exactly are we now we have the precise location here the altitude is above 1,200 [Music]
• 08:00 - 08:30 we are just here at the bottom of the valley and above us is this unbelievable clearcuts look at this unbelievable one clear cut one clear cut one clear cut and the roads are like highways what I see here is is just you know they want to take benefit from the forest they saw this part of the terrain
• 08:30 - 09:00 here like a economical Target it doesn't nothing to do with you know cultural uh environmental and with protection and conservation what we are seeing here is clearcut it's complete removal of the entire forest habitat and it's like permanent damage and destabilizing the slope and destabilizing the forest [Music]
• 09:00 - 09:30 big corporations including global company here have chosen to come in Romania a country which is home and synonym with definition of corruption and just have operations here there is a
• 09:30 - 10:00 blind or turning guy in all the chain and at all levels in Romania that you can get away with it they are truck standing ready to load tomorrow yeah yeah this is Forest Country yeah
• 10:00 - 10:30 skull hooks or corop right can you get the number number yes mm
• 10:30 - 11:00 R I am checking it in the app now yeah right it says it has transport permit issued at 1610 but the picture he put inside this you can't see the full load of the tree if you look at it it's only half half of
• 11:00 - 11:30 the photo the actual load is double than what's showing in the photos he's saying that he's carrying 11.9 cubic M I think that's probably 15 to 20 M there yeah
• 11:30 - 12:00 [Music] [Music] fore
• 12:00 - 12:30 [Applause] fore
• 12:30 - 13:00 fore after
• 13:00 - 13:30 here
• 13:30 - 14:00 for uhh this is a legally one that was cut it has a blue marking on it showing that it was marked this here yeah we're going to see all of them have markings that's how it's supposed to look like the marking here that's a Maring yeah
• 14:00 - 14:30 yeah look he found one already he found one there no no so there's no blueprint on that one no this this logging permit is for accidental um sick trees or fallen down trees this is a healthy tree that shouldn't have been cut that's not sick you can see that yeah yeah that one is illegal as well the marking is missing it's like Tiberia says 50/50 50/50 so
• 14:30 - 15:00 50% legal 50% illegal who's this guy that's the Forester the Forester that's the for
• 15:00 - 15:30 for are you afraid sometimes [Music]
• 15:30 - 16:00 Gabriel agent green I didn't have the right vehicle or the right equipment and definitely no security measures taken
• 16:00 - 16:30 we arve in in in in a place where there was a a billboard saying which company is doing what and say please stop for a second I want to take a a picture of that and uh they stayed in the car I was out and as I was taking the second picture uh a forest vehicle with six big guys double of my size each of them
• 16:30 - 17:00 there was no conversation they were coming very aggressive I make a few step back trying to keep the distance to start a conversation but they have uh not any intention to have a conversation close it close it the perpetrators sewing my teammate in the car with a handy camera were screaming
• 17:00 - 17:30 kill them all take that camera and we will say it was selfdefense [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] oh my God oh my God oh my God oh my God when I heard that I was happy they left and for Gabriel P at and
• 17:30 - 18:00 let they started to punch and and kick until they put me down and even then they haven't [Applause] stopped I was trying to cover it and protect my face but they smashed my head behind and broke all the ribs here and here and as I I was not moving anymore and they thought I'm dead uh uh they left
• 18:00 - 18:30 me I have spent some some years in Psychotherapy to overcome that because I I started to have nightmares was the advice of the psycho therapist just give up your plans to to live in such a place in Romania and uh just live elsewhere and I've done that I've I I'm living now in a secret place where nobody knows and nobody comes uh
• 18:30 - 19:00 far away from my home country because it's simply too dangerous for me to be here I have to come clandestine all the time and make my visit very short [Music]
• 19:00 - 19:30 [Music] [Music] just copy be behind us
• 19:30 - 20:00 yeah gabri somec
• 20:00 - 20:30 [Music] this is clear cut it's I I feel dismayed to see such disarray everything will be gone this wonderful
• 20:30 - 21:00 extremely mixed forest with various species including giant Cher trees and oak trees will be put down in a blink of an eye everything nature created in centuries will be put down nowo
• 21:00 - 21:30 C fore
• 21:30 - 22:00 [Music]
• 22:00 - 22:30 [Music] they say there's no Oak but that's to me oak that's an oak that's an oak that's an oak all over Oak is the dominant species here's another
• 22:30 - 23:00 [Music] one they tried to replant but it definitely didn't Prevail I see the weeds prevailed but the oak babies died see it's it's dead you can't do clear Cuts here because you can't get the forest back cuz as soon as the sun is touch in the ground it will suck up the moisture and baby trees like that won't be able to survive and become grown up
• 23:00 - 23:30 trees very often if you want to maximize economic profits is that you cut them
• 23:30 - 24:00 all down because clear cutting really means that you're taking away the entire Forest cover the entire trees of a particular area and what is Left Behind is a moon landscape from an economic perspective the more you can take out of this sector the more money you will make at a particular instance
• 24:00 - 24:30 [Music] [Music] so ran [Music]
• 24:30 - 25:00 this first we're not letting you put together the products yourself because we're lazy it's actually the other way around you theof weof and together you save money and pressure on the environment for
• 25:00 - 25:30 [Music] [Music]
• 25:30 - 26:00 con [Music] [Music]
• 26:00 - 26:30 Prov
• 26:30 - 27:00 [Music] [Music] [Music] we rolling yeah good can you manage
• 27:00 - 27:30 forest in a way that is good for people good for planet and good for the economy and in Ikea we absolutely believe that 100% yeah yeah you brought along some local managers but we were not allowed to use any of their answers because of security issues you called it can you explain what what are these security issues yeah I don't think it's about it's about danger necessarily it's more that we didn't want them on camera and there're are very ious issues with that um in including security issues where we felt
• 27:30 - 28:00 it was safer that um I would be the spokesperson but let's follow them they know the way plastic as I as I understand it healthy mixed Forest is not supposed to be clear
• 28:00 - 28:30 cuted no my understanding guys is that this this is a substitute cut not a clear cut exactly so we're for the long-term health of the forest we're replacing what is more of an invasive species with Oak which is much better for the soil it's much better for the long-term health of the forest [Music]
• 28:30 - 29:00 as I see is that what we're doing here is substitute cutting they call it substitute cutting have you heard of that term before honestly I have never heard of substitute cutting before um as a way of managing forests now yeah I think there is a stigma to clear
• 29:00 - 29:30 cutting so if AIA doesn't call it clear cutting I think they're trying to avoid the negative connotation that clear cutting has for us this is a substitute cut where we're replacing alien species in with with more of a a solid oak for the longterm health of the forest [Music]
• 29:30 - 30:00 I think in that particular case it's very obvious almost that they want to maximize the number of oak trees that they can grow imp plantations on this particular area and do not want to have competition from other trees that they don't consider as economically important or valuable
• 30:00 - 30:30 so let's find an tree is the most expensive wood on the market it's this is at least €1,000 for every single cubic meter so only this tree standing here it's a couple of thousands of Eur and they should also leave some biotop
• 30:30 - 31:00 trees and I don't see a single biotop tree from the start of the clear car until the end of it there is not a single tree standing there should be a certain amount of them and there is none
• 31:00 - 31:30 [Music] for forestry is not rocket science it's way more complex than that take fire it's important to not
• 31:30 - 32:00 Harvest all the mature trees but to LIF some of them to become really old trees and then to become dead trees to provide food and shelter for the insects birds plants and fungi to support biodiversity some parts of the forest are left untouched for the wildlife in that way the forest can keep on living and growing
• 32:00 - 32:30 [Music] f
• 32:30 - 33:00 for it's about three hectars right exactly and the next one is the three exactly and these two over there is also three so you you the plots are divided up in three hectars exactly okay maybe this is a question for the FSC but it's also a question for you as as you're the owner of this plot where are the biotop trees
• 33:00 - 33:30 the biotop trees are there if you looked around you know we looked around you can see the biotop trees around uh at a landscape level but not hectare by hectare so the way I read the FC standards they're very specific to rules they say you have to retain species of trees that are old like veteran trees
• 33:30 - 34:00 that are providing shelter for Birds particularly for large Predators if there are Hollows in the trees that are used by owls you cannot cut them down so when there are any nests on the trees um you have to maintain those you cannot cut them down but clearly the pictures from the drones are showing a very different image
• 34:00 - 34:30 [Music] becoming Forest positive means ensuring the future of trees and the future of forest communities at
• 34:30 - 35:00 for so the key question is how can we continue to use wood while still having a positive impact on the world's forests forening
• 35:00 - 35:30 [Music] [Music]
• 35:30 - 36:00 from who what do you [Music] [Music] [Music] mean wonderful
• 36:00 - 36:30 this four trees ash tree is extremely hard wood and very very very [Music] precious
• 36:30 - 37:00 for my Gabriel agent greens
• 37:00 - 37:30 for in the paper is Progressive logging but
• 37:30 - 38:00 when the entire Forest cover has been removed in reality this is clear cut when you're doing large openings like this in the canopy you can no longer have uh the kind of forest you had before here it's it's not it's simply not possible and the place where we are right now is a living proof we can zoom in to the soil and walk for hundreds and me of meters and we won't
• 38:00 - 38:30 see babies of trees that used to be here I can't see a single oak I can't see a single Beach tree baby I can't see a a um uh a lyen tree I can't see the ash tree that we have seen at the entrance I I I I can't see those anymore they they they are gone
• 38:30 - 39:00 right um it expired in uh March 23 that's according to the information we have yeah yeah you have checked Sul yeah can you open the the one where where we have the big sum yeah yeah here there this is all over Romania yeah with all of the transport of wood the last uh 3 days how many transport has been made the last 3 days uh 61,000 transports in
• 39:00 - 39:30 3 days yeah interesting so let's go to the forest we went to today mhm can you find that yeah we were close to Yash and this is the forest we visited AA 2000 protected site yeah and if we zoom in right in the middle we've been here this entire Forest is owned by Ika yes but soon all this area is going to be clear cuted
• 39:30 - 40:00 [Music] and that was last week exactly okay
• 40:00 - 40:30 agent green a Romanian Environmental Group has published a report detailing what it claims are destructive logging practices
• 40:30 - 41:00 and um a reaction that Ikea had was to go there and do a facelift of the area which means uh they have spent an enormous amount of money um to correct nature
• 41:00 - 41:30 they are reactive not proactive that's uh that's what I have to criticize about them and they're not having a real conversation they just do it their [Music] way could it be that I wrote to you on 16th of December talking to you about all the things we found and suddenly we're here
• 41:30 - 42:00 three months later and look is that because we have been here I think I think um there is a natural flow and a natural process and you came at one point now we're coming at another point you see the you see the process where it is now you saw it where it was [Music] then [Music]
• 42:00 - 42:30 [Music] for in this case we're absolutely relying on natural regeneration but sometimes trees might not take we might find the composition of that Forest is not coming as it should and then we will do some interventions to make sure that
• 42:30 - 43:00 the forest will regenerate in the nice way that is good for the forest that's why you have used the plastic tubes to get more oak trees I mean specifically this is about making so even natural regeneration needs a helping hand right okay yeah it looks like can I ask you we know with this plastic everywhere is the first Forest I'm seeing a forest of plastic
• 43:00 - 43:30 to me it's a it's a it's a failure of management because for Progressive logging your regeneration should be natural you have you Retreat back you remove some of the trees you encourage the oak to make sading seedlings and you let the oak expand naturally here you have Oaks in tubes and Yash you do a Progressive logging and You' have been forced to
• 43:30 - 44:00 plant oak seedlings in plastic tube is that that is not how it's supposed to be is it I can't comment on this on the detail there you know we we went we visited a lot of locations we've been fully transparent with you on on how we work for the forest and our intentions we've also had all of the accusations independently verified not just by the Romanian Forest guard we also have FSC Auditors visiting our sites so I'm I'm really confident how we're managing those
• 44:00 - 44:30 [Music] forests so FC is a a certifier we think they're one of the one of the best
• 44:30 - 45:00 systems around to to make sure that we're running Forest responsibly I think uh that people should know that FSC certification doesn't mean too much anywhere in the world but in Romania it's even worse it's equal with nothing FSC standard in Romania allows clearcuts like this and even logging in virgin primary and all growth forest and in inside national parks and because FSC standard allows it
• 45:00 - 45:30 accepts [Music] it ording the systems and procedures that FSC has and which Ikea relies on to a large extent are flawed fundamentally flawed and that's something that needs to be addressed urgently [Music]
• 45:30 - 46:00 Ikea is the biggest consumer of wood on the planet that's something we calculated and something they don't deny they consume 20 21 million cubic meters of of Timber a year and and to put that in perspective that's one tree every second that's enough logs to go around the world seven times so they they are hugely influential in the world of of sustainable Timber [Music]
• 46:00 - 46:30 [Music] well that's the bizar as thing so so it was it was all green labeled it had all been greenwashed we see these same problems everywhere FSC has been found to have been uh certifying illegal Timber certifying human rights abuses all over the world not just in Ikea Supply chains and Ikea continues to rely
• 46:30 - 47:00 very much on FC [Music] [Music] certificates for
• 47:00 - 47:30 [Music]
• 47:30 - 48:00 the FSC is one of the tools that we use in responsible Forest management our belief is it's it's one of the best systems around and we want to continue investing in that and support that to make that even better and stronger I think the FC system has been has been critiqued for a long time that it doesn't really live up to what it's supposed to from the beginning when it was created um some decades ago uh
• 48:00 - 48:30 it's been corrupted by business interests uh they also get paid by the companies that they're certifying so there's a clear economic um I would say like objective behind certifying as much as possible uh so I do not think that FSC can reasonably claim to stand for sustainable Forest management any longer yeah for
• 48:30 - 49:00 for we're getting close EA has SC drift
• 49:00 - 49:30 [Music] an [Music]
• 49:30 - 50:00 [Music] [Music] for be careful that they don't see the camera yeah actually you have black windows in the back that's
• 50:00 - 50:30 okay you will soon see the Ikea green and white no trespassing sign yeah you're not supposed to drive in here uh you're not supposed to take photos practically everything that we're doing we're not supposed to be doing
• 50:30 - 51:00 [Applause] [Music] this is leftovers from from the forestry is this legal no no it's legal they should have protected this River by all means you know they
• 51:00 - 51:30 shouldn't have left it become like this yeah good yeah so obviously this is just going to cause erosion they haven't done their job here [Music]
• 51:30 - 52:00 this almost three met high no
• 52:00 - 52:30 yeah the guy said these are definitely a dodgy company they've been fine several times if we want to get the full the full record we should send like a public
• 52:30 - 53:00 request to the police okay the forest guard issued various fines for for the Logging Company yeah so for me that's the flag that the system is actually working but this was uh the fines were given out uh due to uh an NGO agent green who filed the who filed the complaint and made the forest
• 53:00 - 53:30 guard do his work that resulted in three fin so far doesn't that affect you at all I don't know this this company myself but the overall process that incor is that we're very strict with who we work with so um I I think we wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior within within ination so far you've done so far you have done they are still here is it all possible that some of these subcontractors have been influenced by the way things have been run in the forest industry in Romania
• 53:30 - 54:00 over the years so we're very careful about who we work with we have very strict processes around subcontractors and also around people who at companies who come on to who we sell the wood [Music] to have you ever reported any kind of corruptive behavior it's an unanswered
• 54:00 - 54:30 question that we have asked again and again I was super clear with you last time and I'll be super clear again yeah we have a zero tolerance approach for any corruption in our operations have you reported that now I'm asking again so in any location whether it's Romania whether it's somewhere else in Europe around the world we will we will respond to that but that's still not answering my question passort so you have not reported anything so I'd rather not get into
• 54:30 - 55:00 individual cases now but I'm telling you that our approach is a zero tolerance approach to any form of corruption if we find it we will report it and we will take action [Music]
• 55:00 - 55:30 clears
• 55:30 - 56:00 for I like Ikea I I've been going to Ikea a lot but I really question the fundamental business model this time is up for fast furniture I would say so [Music] [Applause] [Music]
• 56:00 - 56:30 but it's difficult for them because they're a company of business model is to be uh fast and cheap furniture and if they will listen what we have to say this might need to change their business model because the era of cheap and fast furniture where you have a annual catalog of furniture just like like you have for fashion is gone it's
• 56:30 - 57:00 over why are Ikea involved in forestry in Romania our belief is that if you manage forestry in the right way it can be good for people it can be good for planet and it can be good for the economy so you're saying that you're in Romania to actually save the forests yes absolutely and if you look at the forest since we've been there you can see that the forest has actually grown in density since we began in Romania we love wood and we love Forest
• 57:00 - 57:30 [Music] [Music] [Music]
• 57:30 - 58:00 [Music] I
• 58:00 - 58:30 [Music]