Jon Bernthal On Toxic Masculinity | Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend

Summary

In a recent episode of "Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend," Jon Bernthal delves into the complex topic of masculinity. Bernthal, recognized for his rugged roles, reflects on his personal experiences with toxic masculinity, emphasizing the importance of reshaping traditional masculine ideals. He speaks passionately about being a father to two boys and the kind of men he wants to raise, highlighting values like kindness and empathy alongside strength and discipline. Drawing from lessons learned from a Navy SEAL friend, he underscores the importance of a balanced life, combining toughness with artistic and emotional awareness. Bernthal's insights offer a refreshing perspective on masculinity, advocating for a blend of strength and sensitivity that defies outdated stereotypes.

Highlights

• Jon Bernthal discusses his unique perspective on masculinity, shaped by personal and professional experiences. 🎭
• Jon instills classic masculine traits in his sons, like self-defense and discipline, but emphasizes kindness and empathy. 🤝
• The value of being well-rounded, integrating both toughness and sensitivity, is a key theme in Jon's masculinity ideals. 🎓
• Bernthal’s insights challenge traditional views on masculinity, promoting a healthier, more balanced approach. ⚖️

Key Takeaways

• Jon Bernthal tackles the subject of masculinity with refreshing honesty and depth. 💪
• He emphasizes the importance of kindness and empathy, alongside traditional masculine traits like strength. ❤️
• Bernthal uses his personal experiences and aspires to raise his children with these balanced values. 👨‍👦‍👦
• He values the lessons from his Navy SEAL friend about integrating toughness with artistic sensitivity. 🎨
• His approach advocates for a well-rounded masculinity that breaks old stereotypes. 🌟

Overview

Jon Bernthal, famed for his rugged on-screen roles, offers a compelling discussion on masculinity during his appearance on "Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend." Bernie explores the topic not as an expert, but as a parent and a person who’s experienced misunderstanding around masculine stereotypes. He candidly shares his views on how masculinity is often misunderstood and misrepresented in society.

Being a father to two sons, Jon reveals the masculine role models he strives to present to his children. He talks about the importance of traditional skills like martial arts, reflecting his belief in discipline and self-defense. However, Bernthal balances these classic concepts with the need for empathy and kindness, advocating for his children to also stand against injustice and support those in need.

Inspired by a close friend and former Navy SEAL, Jon articulates the Samurai-like balance of strength and sensitivity, using it as a guide for his own life and teachings. Encouraging a harmonious blend of 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities, Bernthal's perspective pushes against outdated stereotypes, embracing a more inclusive and realistic view of what it means to be a man.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction The Introduction discusses the frequent topic of masculinity. It notes the host's focus on this subject due to their unique perspective, having personally experienced or dealt with toxic aspects of masculinity.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Masculinity and Identity The chapter discusses the perception of masculinity and how past challenges, such as difficulties or fighting, can shape how others view someone. It delves into the idea that this perception of masculinity can be a toxic formula and is not the answer to personal identity. The speaker reflects on being perceived as having authority on the subject, although they express uncertainty about having any real power in discussing masculinity.
• 01:00 - 01:30: Fatherhood and Values The chapter explores the speaker's reflections on fatherhood and the values they wish to impart to their two sons. The speaker emphasizes the importance of positive role models and the kind of masculinity they hope their children will observe and emulate. Discipline is mentioned as a value the speaker believes in, indicating a structured approach to parenting. Despite acknowledging some confusion in societal expectations, the speaker is clear about the personal standards and models they want for their children.
• 01:30 - 02:00: Self-Defense and Kindness The chapter titled 'Self-Defense and Kindness' discusses the importance of self-defense and the capability to handle oneself, highlighting its significance for both boys and girls. It emphasizes that these skills, often considered aspects of classic masculinity, are crucial for everyone. However, the chapter also underscores the equal importance of kindness and empathy in one's character.
• 02:00 - 02:30: The Code of the Samurai The chapter titled 'The Code of the Samurai' discusses the importance of standing up for individuals who have fewer rights or who are being marginalized. It highlights the courage required to show empathy and connect with one's softer side. The chapter features insights from a guest, Kevin Vance, who is a dear friend of the narrator, a Navy SEAL, and a firefighter. Vance is portrayed as an exemplary human being who discusses the significance of the code, likely referring to a moral or ethical code akin to that followed by samurais.
• 02:30 - 03:00: Fear and Insecurity This chapter explores the dual nature of a Samurai's identity, highlighting the importance of balancing warrior skills with cultural and artistic pursuits. It emphasizes the value of being well-rounded, engaging in activities such as calligraphy, dance, cooking, and gardening. The narrative contrasts these qualities with a rigid, authoritarian approach, suggesting that true strength involves embracing both strength and sensitivity.
• 03:00 - 03:30: Boxing Gym Wisdom The chapter titled 'Boxing Gym Wisdom' reflects the common atmosphere and underlying psychology prevalent in boxing gyms. A rule is highlighted about how the individuals who exhibit the most bravado, like wearing bright colors or being loud and boisterous, are often not the ones to be actually concerned about. The narrative seems to emphasize that confidence doesn't necessarily equate to skill or threat, a common wisdom shared in boxing environments.
• 03:30 - 04:00: Jon Bernthal's Podcast This chapter discusses the features and accessibility of Jon Bernthal's podcast 'Real Ones'. It humorously imagines a character dressed in Shamrock shorts and a peacock tail, symbolizing the unique and bold approach of the podcast. The chapter emphasizes the availability of 'Real Ones' on various podcast platforms.
• 04:00 - 04:30: Podcast Promotion and Humor The chapter emphasizes the authenticity of the 'Real Ones' podcast by Spotify, featuring John Bernthal, highlighting its engaging conversations with real people discussing real issues. It appreciates the host's ability to connect with guests personally and humorously implies a reluctance to offer physical help by joking about the speaker's incompetence in a playful way.

Jon Bernthal On Toxic Masculinity | Conan O'Brien Needs A Friend Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 you talk about masculinity a lot that comes up a lot does not come up on this podcast for reasons that still Escape me um no but but seriously John like you you you talk about it and I think you have um uh uh it's you have a great it's a it's a it's a great vantage point you have because you can talk about it from this place of having experienced you know or having experience with toxic
• 00:30 - 01:00 masculinity or people thinking that about you because of you know whatever difficulties you've had in the past or the or the fighting or whatever they can just think like oh this guy's this is the point of view this guy's going to be coming at me from and then for you to talk about how that is a can be a toxic formula and is not the answer gives you an authority in that I think that other people it gives you a power to talk about that subject that maybe other people don't have look I I don't know if I have any any power in it and I don't honestly
• 01:00 - 01:30 with the the the the sort of terms that people throw out there I you know I I don't know I'm No Authority on that I know that I'm a father and I'm a father of two boys and and I know the kind of men that I want them to grow up to be and the kind of young men I want them to be and I know the kind of models of masculinity that I want them to see and I think you know sometimes I've I've talked about this before and I think sometimes it gets confusing and I think that I don't know I I don't know that I've ever been I do believe in in discipline I'm I'm
• 01:30 - 02:00 somebody my my kids you know they they practice martial arts they know you you know they they they um know how to handle themselves in the woods you know they I I I I really think it's enormously important not for them but also just as equally important for my daughter to be able to defend themselves and to be able to handle themselves into like these things are these sort of cornerstones of I think you know classic masculinity are super super important but equally important is being kind is being empathetic is to
• 02:00 - 02:30 stand up for somebody who has less rights than you somebody who's being picked on somebody who's being put into the corner somebody who's just sad uh you know um getting in touch with uh a side of them that that softer Having the courage to do that to to um you know I I had a guy on on my show that I've just learned so much from a dear friend of mine named Kevin Vance who's a Navy SEAL and a firefighter and just one of the just just this wonderful human being and he talks about the code
• 02:30 - 03:00 of the Samurai and how they yeah they they knew how to fight and they knew how to use swords and they were warriors but they also had to get in touch with their quote unquote feminine side and and their ability to do calligraphy and to dance and to cook and to garden and that these things are all equally important and and to be well-rounded but again when it's confused with being hardened or being uh a picking on somebody or again saying it's my way or the highway to me that is that reeks of
• 03:00 - 03:30 such fear and such insecurity yeah it's a classic rule in the boxing gym I've said it before when you come into Steve Petra Molly's gym you're gonna see oh I'm coming I know you are and I'm coming in hard I know man well well loved it my point is is that in the bar in any boxing gym in this country you can see it the guy who's the loudest the guy with the brightest color clothes the guy who's kind of you know dancing around that's me that's all three oh look I think that will change because I think that that that that is almost always the guy you don't need to worry about
• 03:30 - 04:00 who Smiles at you and shakes your hand and nods and says hey man you want to move a little bit like yeah you got deal with this guy I'm coming in wearing uh bright Shamrock shorts let's go and an actual peacock tail yeah a peacock yeah and a monocle I love it man uh no I uh I'm I'm listen I want to get to make sure I get help get the word out because uh your podcast is doing well real ones is uh available wherever people get their podcast right yeah everywhere yes
• 04:00 - 04:30 Spotify and uh John Bernthal real ones and it's very refreshing thanks because you're talking to real people about real things and you do have the touch you are able to connect with these people I think that's very cool and um you know if you ever need help out there in the world you know if you get into a tight corner and you need a guy to come in and swing these these meat hooks around not him don't call me yeah don't call me because I'm a terrible I
• 04:30 - 05:00 do not have your back I'm being honest honestly I love it I'm a kicker I'm a guy who kicks and then runs great yeah a little scratch maybe yeah a slap I I can't make a fist uh but I slap and then I run I'm a slap and run guy I love it