New book details lasting effects of hydroelectric projects in Manitoba | Face to Face

Summary

In this episode of Face to Face, Dennis Ward interviews M.A. Craft, a distinguished lawyer, academic, and author, who discusses the intricate issues surrounding hydroelectric developments in Manitoba, particularly focusing on her newly co-edited book, "In Our Backyard: Keeyask and the Legacy of Hydroelectric Development." Craft details the decade-long journey of the book, which captures diverse voices regarding the socio-economic and environmental impacts these projects have on indigenous communities. She emphasizes the need for acknowledging the cost – beyond just financial – of such developments to Northern Manitoban indigenous peoples, highlighting the cultural and ecological disruptions they cause. The episode delves into the changing legal landscape and partnerships that frame current projects, and Craft underscores the importance of reevaluating policies to better align with concepts of reconciliation and justice.

Highlights

• In Our Backyard explores the impact of Manitoba's hydroelectric projects over a ten-year research period. 📖
• M.A. Craft discusses the socio-economic and environmental effects on Northern Manitoban communities. 🌲
• The book captures a range of perspectives and highlights the importance of preserving indigenous voices. 🗣️
• Hydroelectric projects often disrupt indigenous cultural practices and cause environmental changes. ⚡
• There's critical commentary on the negotiation dynamics and promises made to indigenous communities. 🤔

Key Takeaways

• M.A. Craft highlights the decade-long journey of compiling voices and research for her book on hydroelectric impacts. 📚
• Hydroelectric development significantly affects indigenous communities, causing ecological and cultural disruptions. 🌊
• Current legal and economic frameworks for these projects are evolving, but historical injustices persist. 🔍
• There's a complex balance in partnerships; indigenous communities often bear the brunt for broader benefits. 🤝
• Understanding 'costs' means looking beyond finances to societal and environmental impacts. 🌍

Overview

In a deep dive into the world of hydroelectric projects, M.A. Craft brings to light the profound impact these developments have on indigenous communities in Northern Manitoba through her co-edited book, 'In Our Backyard: Keeyask and the Legacy of Hydroelectric Development.' The book is a culmination of over a decade of research and perspectives that stress the importance of preserving indigenous voices and witnessing the socio-economic and environmental ramifications first-hand.

Craft, who possesses a rich professional background in law and indigenous rights, sheds light on the history and ongoing issues relating to Manitoba's native communities affected by such projects. She explores the critical questions of cultural loss, environmental change, and the complex socio-political negotiations that come into play when large energy projects intersect with indigenous lands. Her insights speak to historical injustices and the need for a balanced, respectful dialogue going forward.

As the episode unfolds, viewers are encouraged to reconsider the 'cost' tied to hydroelectric advantages – benefits like lower rates and energy exports come at a social and ecological price largely paid by indigenous peoples. Craft calls attention to the responsibilities shared by developers and government entities to ensure fair practices and genuine partnerships, advocating for frameworks that align with reconciliation and ecological sustainability.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:00: Introduction and Guest Introduction The chapter introduces Dennis Ward, the host of the show 'Face to Face,' and the guest, M.A. Craft. M.A. Craft is a lawyer, academic, and author with Anishinabe Metis heritage from Treaty One Territory in Manitoba. She has previously held positions such as director of research at the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls and the founding director of research at another unspecified institution.
• 01:00 - 13:00: Book Discussion: In Our Backyard: Keeyask and the Legacy of Hydroelectric Development The chapter introduces the book 'In Our Backyard: Keeyask and the Legacy of Hydroelectric Development', co-edited by the speaker and Jill Blakely. It is highlighted that the speaker is not only associated with the National Center for Truth and Reconciliation but is also an accomplished author. The context is likely a book discussion or interview setting, providing an opportunity to delve into the themes and insights of the book.
• 13:00 - 18:00: Impact on Indigenous Communities The chapter titled "Impact on Indigenous Communities" discusses the longstanding legacy of hydroelectric development on Indigenous lands. It references a book that has taken over a decade to compile, which is tied to hearings at the Clean Environment Commission (CEC). Various experts and community witnesses testified during these hearings about the impacts of such developments. The key inquiry of the CEC was to assess the ongoing effects of hydroelectric projects on Indigenous communities.
• 18:00 - 21:00: Legal and Historical Context of Hydroelectric Projects This chapter delves into the legal and historical contexts surrounding hydroelectric projects, emphasizing the significant residual adverse effects of building a dam within a particular territory. It explores various dimensions and perspectives on the subject, highlighting the critical information and thoughtful considerations debated on whether or not the dam should be constructed. The chapter stresses the importance of preserving the voices and insights of those who have deeply contemplated the implications of building the dam, ensuring that their contributions are not lost in abstract archives but are actively remembered and studied.
• 21:00 - 31:30: Broader Implications and Related Projects The chapter titled "Broader Implications and Related Projects" highlights the diverse perspectives and voices involved in the discussion of hydroelectric development and the specific dam covered in the book. It examines the various authors and perspectives included, emphasizing that there is not just one way to view these developments. The chapter includes contributions from different people, showcasing a range of academic and other viewpoints to provide a comprehensive understanding of the topic.
• 31:30 - 37:00: Conclusion and Upcoming Projects The chapter discusses the diverse perspectives related to hydroelectric development, including biological markers such as caribou and sturgeon, socioeconomic considerations, and community voices. It highlights firsthand accounts from community members, particularly from First Nations, addressing both personal and community impacts. These narratives provide insight into the multifaceted effects of projects like kiosk on the affected populations.

New book details lasting effects of hydroelectric projects in Manitoba | Face to Face Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 good evening i'm dennis ward and this is face to face [Music] our guest this week is a lawyer academic and author m.a craft is anishinabe metis from treaty one territory in manitoba she's the former director of research at the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls and the founding director of research at the
• 00:30 - 01:00 national center for truth and reconciliation m.a is also an award-winning author who recently co-edited the book in our backyard kiosk in the legacy of hydroelectric development which has just been released thanks so much for being with us this week on the show it's my pleasure uh quite the resume there but we barely scratched the surface even but let's start with the book here that we have in our backyard that you recently co-edited with jill blakely
• 01:00 - 01:30 what can you tell us about in our backyard kiosk and the legacy of hydroelectric development this is the first time i've seen a physical copy of this book so i just want to hold it because this book is just over 10 years in the making it relates back to hearing at the clean environment commission and many experts and community witnesses testified on the impact of hydroelectric development and the question that the cec was asking is are there going to be
• 01:30 - 02:00 significant residual adverse effects of building this dam in in the territory and so the book explores all the dimensions of that and the different perspectives and what we wanted to make sure happened is that all of the thoughtful information that was put forward in considering whether or not the dam should be built that it not be lost that not be part of some abstract archive somewhere but that the voices of the people those who had understood and thought deeply about whether or not this dam should be built would be preserved
• 02:00 - 02:30 in in this book and to illustrate the range of perspectives right it's not sort of one uniform way of looking at hydroelectric development or at this dam uh itself and there are numerous voices uh different people doing different chapters in the book can you tell us who's involved and i guess how you decided who should uh be included so there's a range of different authors uh and perspectives that are illustrated in the book so we have more academic
• 02:30 - 03:00 experts that are speaking to sort of biological bioterrestrial um markers you know caribou and and sturgeon and other species within the territory and then there are the socioeconomic perspectives and then community voices so there are first hand witness accounts of different community members that testified from different first nations that are affected by the hydroelectric development of kiosk and they talked about their own personal experience impact on community impact on their
• 03:00 - 03:30 territory and some of the loss that comes with this kind of development what would you say the role that hydroelectricity has played in the development of manitoba as a province i think it's key to manitoba's development as a province it's kind of part of the identity of manitoba and since the 60s there are a variety of dams that have been built in northern manitoba that have been controversial so there's they've been the subject of a renegotiated agreement uh the northern
• 03:30 - 04:00 flood agreement and often this was on the backs of first nations and with significant impact on lands waters territories in in the north and what's interesting is manitoba has maintained the lowest hydro rates for consumers you know in canada and and very reasonable rates in terms of north america and so understanding it from this perspective you know what is the cost not the financial cost to a consumer of hydro but what's the cost of having hydroelectric development in the
• 04:00 - 04:30 northern part of the province right because most of it's consumed in the south and most of it a lot of it is also exported to export markets to generate revenue but the impact is in the north so we have a province that has you know this this history of low hydro rates big development in northern manitoba and a growing export market and that's kind of the big picture of hydro and in manitoba that we need to be conscious of i think consumers in the south need to
• 04:30 - 05:00 know that and this book is about you know situating indigenous people in that northern landscape and the title says it right in our backyard and this is something that is very real although people in the south might not see what's happening in the north well that was my next question what has been the impact on indigenous peoples from these hydro projects i think one of the the largest impacts is actually flooding and so we see a change in landscape
• 05:00 - 05:30 right to generate power you have to hold back water and release it strategically so there's a lot of flooding associated with the building of a hydroelectric dam and the impact is also socio and economic because if you're flooding land if you're building a mega dam there's an impact on the wildlife how animals move there's an impact on vegetation there's impacts on the loss of sound of rapids where dams are built and that's one of the comments that came forward in the the
• 05:30 - 06:00 kiosk hearing was you know some of the elders said if we lose the sound of this rapid we lose a part of our cultural identity and those are things that aren't often captured in environmental assessment right we don't think about what it is to lose sound but imagine losing something that's part of your daily fixture that's part of your landscape that's part of your home that is your family um you know that that changes things pretty significantly and changes the way
• 06:00 - 06:30 you travel and move and and be with with waterscapes and as i mentioned to you right off the the when you open the book there's a poem from former national chief over mercury that really touches on some of the things you said there that really hits you hard and stops you in your tracks um in 2018 a manitoba clean environment commission report was made public and laid bare some of the allegations of the impacts on one community fox lake cree nation allegations of sexual assault racism uh
• 06:30 - 07:00 economic and social impacts you know as someone who is also yourself involved in the national inquiry and to missing and murdered indigenous women and girls is did that the the two kind of match up on what you were hearing in terms of big projects and the impacts on indigenous peoples who live there yeah absolutely and i think that you know what i was earlier referring to is sort of the impact of the dam once it's built but the whole building process
• 07:00 - 07:30 is pretty impactful and one of the things that we critique in the book is sort of the staged approach to licensing and staged approach to building like you walk so far down this path in the pre-phase that you have to build it but the building itself is impactful and one of the realities is that to build a major dam like the kiosk dam you're bringing in workers from all across canada you're having significant impact in communities and there are some offsets with employment jobs within construction camps and continuing work
• 07:30 - 08:00 um on the on the dam and its power generating abilities but i think that we often underestimate what it's like to be in a remote community and then have you know the world descend upon fox lake for example and what that means for children and families and women and the socioeconomics cultural dynamics and physical safety and that's you know you referred to over mercury's poem at
• 08:00 - 08:30 the beginning of the book and he's from the community of miss pistic crenation where grand rapids dam was built in the 1960s there's a whole generation of children that were born of hydro workers um that then had to be integrated into the community in really difficult ways and and that's a reality that comes from that kind of northern development a social reality that we can't ignore right exactly uh tens if not hundreds of millions of
• 08:30 - 09:00 dollars have been paid out to first nations in settlements by manitoba hydro or the province after the fact what does that say to you about the policies in place that got these projects greenlit in the first place well if we think about the history of hydro in manitoba it went from zero consultation we're doing this in your territory you don't have a say to now a new model of economic um partnership and that's kind of it
• 09:00 - 09:30 couldn't be done without consent anymore it had to become something else and and that's this new model of being partners in a project potentially benefiting from it and you know in in some ways that's a positive development because it's including first nations but there's also a lot of impetus to say yes and the community ratification processes and things like that the economic incentives are all part of a bigger package and you can be critical of that and i think a lot of
• 09:30 - 10:00 our authors in the book are critical we invited hydro to give us their perspective and and they declined to to be part of the the book project but there you know there is a range there isn't sort of one way of looking at this and and i think that's important of having a book like this is it illustrates all of these different perspectives and and says you know we've done this from the perspective of first nations we've done this we've partnered but we still have these concerns which all of them raised as as continuing concerns but they've
• 10:00 - 10:30 faced a reality and many of them live with hydroelectric development already in their backyard with the other dams that are on the nelson river so this is kind of a continuation of a larger project and it also situates itself in the objects of more potential development hydroelectric development in manitoba could theoretically develop to double what it is now and so we need to be really cautious about how we make decisions who's involved in it who
• 10:30 - 11:00 benefits from those those decisions i may we're going to touch on many of the things that you just touched on there we just have to step aside for a quick break and then we'll continue the conversation here on face-to-face [Music] welcome back to face to face our guest this week is lawyer author and much more m.a craft whose recent book here in our backyard kiosk and the legacy of
• 11:00 - 11:30 hydroelectric development i mean the forward of the book talks about how big energy projects today have never faced such uncertain pathways to success and there are many examples of that what was the process like in was there much opposition do you think from what you've been hearing and reading to these hydro projects in manitoba back in the 50s and 60s i think the landscape has changed and actually the law has changed and
• 11:30 - 12:00 the law of consultation and accommodation in canada requires that the con the crown consult and accommodate where there's potential impact on the exercise of treating aboriginal rights and treaty and aboriginal rights have only been part of canada's constitution since 1982 the recognition of them so you know there's a very different landscape than there was in the 50s and 60s where there was kind of this pro-development let's go ahead let's do this it's good for the province therefore it's good for everyone and and now we're we're in a different era there's an era of reconciliation
• 12:00 - 12:30 there's constitutional recognition of rights um and there's also a better exchange or flow of information so whereas you know in the in the north you may not have actually known much about a project before it happened uh you know 40 years ago now there's actually more publicly accessible information and a call for it and that's part of environmental assessment in canada and um so that that change in landscape the involvement of indigenous nations as partners is you know a significant shift
• 12:30 - 13:00 in um in mega projects policy and in those ways you know it's positive but there is still a lot of resistance and um you know some of the the people that spoke at the clean environment commission hearing on kiosk said this is going to destroy my trap line this is going to change how my family gathers on land this is going to change my everyday activities and it will have an impact on who i am as a cree person and and that you know that is a very important voice
• 13:00 - 13:30 that needs to be heard in those decision-making processes governments like to tout hydro as a clean source of energy what do you say to that i think often hydro is categorized in the renewable resources category but the impact on territory is long term so as much as water can cycle through and be reused there's still a significant impact on shoreline erosion
• 13:30 - 14:00 and on the quality of of water within territories and then the impact of you know the transmission lines once hydro is generated it also has to be transmitted and and that's something that's quite significant when you're bringing power from northern manitoba to southern manitoba so there's a whole wealth of biophysical impacts on the territory that have to be acknowledged as part of you know these these hydroelectric developments well let's talk about kiosks
• 14:00 - 14:30 specifically is that's the title of the book here a nearly 10 billion dollar project that sees manitoba hydro partnering with four first nations what should people who don't know about this mega project know about it i think they need to know that um you know this isn't a handout to first nations they become partners in the project they have to invest in the project the returns are in a distant future so this is not an immediate return so
• 14:30 - 15:00 there's a business arrangement here that's that's being made and one that has a lot of risk associated to it as well um so you know the adverse effects uh that you know would have been um 40 years ago that wouldn't have been compensated for it are partially compensated but also part of that compensation model or the the benefit model is to be partners but it's risky and a lot of it is driven by the fact that
• 15:00 - 15:30 there's an um an inclination to think that this is going to happen anyway and it has happened on the nelson river many times for many of the communities involved they're already in the shadow of a dam so one more um you know i think there's a thought that why not profit from it and that's a very important question and one that's debated and contested within uh communities and amongst families even and that's i think what people should know about hydroelectric
• 15:30 - 16:00 development in in manitoba is it's still impactful it's still risky it's often driven by export markets and providing low energy to the south and it's being done in indigenous territory and it has been less beneficial in the past and continues to be controversially potentially beneficial when we were talking about uh the economic committee or the clean water commission there and what happened in the 50s and 60s to uh to fox lake this
• 16:00 - 16:30 project to kiosk has been hit with the cost overruns allegations of sexual assaults charges laid you know allegations of racism nearly 30 000 people worked on this project that's more people than some of the communities i've lived in that did was nothing learned from it seems like all the same problems that happened decades ago are still happening with projects being done today i think you know when you're bringing in um people to build a dam from all over
• 16:30 - 17:00 canada uh that are used to a camp culture there's a lot of that that even with information and training and sensitivity training cultural sensitivity training that is difficult to undo and and i think it needs a really concerted effort from the top down you know all throughout the the structures of of decision makers and employers and and that's really challenging and you know a lot of um having worked at the inquiry one of the primary questions that we asked about indigenous women is
• 17:00 - 17:30 what allows for the devaluation of indigenous women's lives and it's very similar in thought to what allows us to devalue land or to extract from land is it seen as being something to be taken up by someone who has more power and so you know there's interesting parallels there between what we do to the land and what we allow what we do to women in in these types of camps so i think a concerted effort to think
• 17:30 - 18:00 about and and put action to how do we keep our communities safe while we're going through this process of building and then operating these dams that's a critical question and a core one for leadership in all four of the affected communities and any other community that has this kind of development in its in this backyard um you know we talked about the the partnership here the with the four first nations and earlier this year the the partner first nation said they wanted to
• 18:00 - 18:30 update the original agreement saying that financial returns promised are unlikely to ever materialize here the chief of york factory wrote once again the adverse effects of yet another major hydroelectric project have been imposed on remote indigenous peoples for the benefit of distant non-indigenous governments and peoples what are your thoughts on that you know i immediately think of treaties and the idea of making a treaty to live well together and the idea of renewal
• 18:30 - 19:00 and responsibility and reciprocity and what it is to be in good relations and and understanding that they're going to be shifting circumstances and many of us pointed out in the original hearings at the public utilities board and the clean environment commission that there was risk associated with this kind of financial arrangement and i think we're seeing that materialize in our current circumstances and the reality is you know when there is a shift
• 19:00 - 19:30 the honor of the crown applies and manitoba hydro is a crown corporation so i would say you know if there is a need to revisit the benefit to the different nations that were involved as partners then that should be to me it would be a no-brainer to me it would be upholding the honor of the crown um you know i'm not a corporate commercial lawyer and there's probably a variety of contractual reasons that would allow you to escape that but
• 19:30 - 20:00 remembering that this is a crown corporation it's a corporation that represents all of the the crown's interests in manitoba and the people of manitoba ultimately and maintaining good relationships and acknowledging the impact on indigenous nations in the north is important if we're actually committed to reconciliation as a province then that's a conversation that should be had amongst the partners in that in that development to ensure that there is some kind of benefit for northern first
• 20:00 - 20:30 nations any more to talk about here will you just have to step aside for one more quick break and then we'll continue the conversation here on face to face [Music] welcome back to face to face our guest this week is lawyer author and more m.a craft and maybe you know we've been focused on manitoba here but um this could really apply to first nations or indigenous peoples in any other province
• 20:30 - 21:00 with mega projects like this could it not absolutely and around the world and that's a reality megaprojects extractivism is happening uh in our backyard but also uh internationally and um jill blakely who's the co-editor of uh of this book is also a co-editor with me on mega projects book where we're exploring three hydroelectric developments in canada so muskrat falls site c and kiosk as well as ring of fire developments to think about you know when you're doing
• 21:00 - 21:30 mega projects how do you make decisions what is good development and what are the principles of decision making and what do we need to think about to make this fit into our current imperative of reconciliation so that book's coming out next year and we're really excited about the conversations that are happening around that both in the book but also in the broader impact assessment community and environmental evaluation communities in in canada i understand you have another book uh as well that we should touch on here
• 21:30 - 22:00 yeah well so you know if you think about all of this it's in the abstract but it actually is based on treating relationships and and that's so important in our manitoba context understanding what treaties mean honoring them and understanding concepts like reciprocity renewal and respect that are so foundational and the children's book actually talks about how those relationships are modeled on what we see in our natural environment and it's beautifully illustrated by luke swenson and it's meant to be read as
• 22:00 - 22:30 families and for each person that reads it especially young people to see themselves as these people that can uphold these sets of values that are gifted to us by creation and that we model our good behavior and our relationships on well it sounds great and uh really looking forward to that next book as well on those projects emme uh thanks so much for for coming here and talking with us about it and good luck tonight yeah the book launch for this one is tonight so good luck with that thanks
• 22:30 - 23:00 for being with us thank you so much dennis it was great to chat with you and that's all the time we have for this week's show you can catch up on any episodes you may have missed by visiting our website aptnews.ca this episode and all of our past episodes are also available as podcasts and you can find those wherever you download your podcasts i'm dennis ward thanks for tuning in to face to face have a great night we'll see you back here next week for the season finale of
• 23:00 - 23:30 face to face [Music] [Music]
• 23:30 - 24:00 so you