Redefining Work in a Hybrid Society – Technology, Leadership, and the Future of Employment | Gues...

Summary

The podcast hosted by ITSPmagazine explores the evolving nature of work in a hybrid society, touching on the roles of technology, leadership, and the future of employment. Guest Sara Doe discusses her book on fractional work, emphasizing the importance of flexible employment at the C-suite level and how it influences job structures across various industries. The conversation highlights the impact of technology on work practices and speculates on future shifts, emphasizing the enduring need for human connection even as digital paradigms evolve.

Highlights

• Sara Doe discusses how fractional C-suite roles offer flexibility and reject traditional corporate constraints. 🚀
• Technology enables remote work, deepening relationships despite physical distances, especially notable during the pandemic. 🌍
• Generational differences show younger workers naturally gravitate towards gig work and digital communication. 📱
• Psychological ownership as seen in models like Spotify can create lasting relationships without direct ownership. 🎶
• Corporates must adapt to hybrid workforce demands, balancing stable employment with innovative freelance inputs. ⚖️

Key Takeaways

• Fractional work is redefining employment at the C-suite level, offering flexibility and efficiency. 🌟
• The COVID-19 pandemic normalized remote work, accelerating acceptance of digital collaboration tools. 💻
• Generational shifts indicate a move towards gig economies and hybrid work models among younger workers. 👶
• Psychological ownership in access-based work models can foster strong client relationships without traditional employment contracts. 🤝
• Technological advancements allow more personalized and efficient work experiences, blending convenience with connection. 🤖

Overview

The podcast delves into the transformative nature of work, with Sara Doe explaining how fractional employment at the executive level is challenging traditional corporate roles. This setup is especially prevalent in sectors needing high-level skills without the full-time employment commitment. The conversation hones in on how this trend is impacting work culture, presenting both advantages and adjustments needed for businesses and employees alike.

Technology plays a crucial role in enabling these new work models. The pandemic served as a catalyst for widespread acceptance of remote capabilities, emphasizing digital tools' role in maintaining Connectivity and efficiency despite geographical separation. Sara discusses how these changes are not just technological but also cultural, bringing into focus the changing expectations of employee engagement and output.

As we look to the future, Sara and the host speculate on the evolution of work environments. They imagine a blended world of augmented reality and digital interfaces facilitating work, yet insist on the persisting need for human connection. The adaptability of younger generations and their comfort with digital ecosystems raise questions about how traditional business models need to evolve to stay relevant.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:00: Introduction and RSA Conference Announcement The chapter begins with an introduction, marked by the sound of music, signaling the start of the RSA conference announcement. Sean Marco, presumably a speaker or host, is introduced to deliver a key message from the RSA conference team.
• 01:00 - 01:30: Cybersecurity and Technology Discussions The chapter discusses the upcoming RSA Conference 2025, highlighting its significance in the field of cybersecurity and technology. It emphasizes the event as a platform where insights drive action, solutions emerge, and community connections spark innovation. The conference is scheduled for April 28th through May 1st, and the transcript serves as an invitation for people to secure their spot and attend the event.
• 01:30 - 02:00: Introduction to the Episode This chapter introduces the theme of the episode, focusing on the concierge cyber security services provided by BlackCloak. It highlights the protection offered against various cyber threats targeting corporate executives and high-net-worth individuals. The chapter underscores the importance of safeguarding against hacking, reputational, and financial losses, as well as the impacts of corporate data breaches, while inviting the audience to learn more about BlackCloak's offerings. The introduction sets the stage for the ensuing discussions on society and technology within the podcast.
• 02:00 - 04:30: Guest Introduction and Background The chapter titled 'Guest Introduction and Background' features a discussion with a guest who has a background in the sociology of communication. The guest is particularly interested in the intersection of society and technology, engaging in conversations about cybersecurity on ITP magazine alongside partner Sean Martin. The discussion emphasizes the vast array of topics within the tech and society domain, including smart cities, cars, and healthcare, noting recent changes in these areas.
• 04:30 - 09:00: The Concept of Fractional Work The chapter discusses the impact of technology on the way we work today, emphasizing the concept of 'fractional work.' The narrator is having a conversation with Sara Doe from the UK to explore the present and future of work, showcasing how technology allows seamless communication across long distances. The discussion highlights the changes in work dynamics due to technological advancements.
• 09:00 - 13:00: Technology and Remote Work In this chapter titled 'Technology and Remote Work', Sarah, the group CEO of the CFO Center Group and the Liberty Group, shares insights into the reasons behind writing her book that centers on the future of work. Her business focuses on providing fractional professional services to growing small and medium-sized enterprises (SMMEs) as well as larger organizations, highlighting the importance of technology and novel work arrangements in the modern business environment.
• 13:00 - 18:00: Access Economy and Psychological Ownership The chapter titled 'Access Economy and Psychological Ownership' explores the shifting dynamics in the workplace, particularly the challenge to traditional employment models. It delves into the question of whether technology serves to enhance human experience and interactions or if its role and impact are being misunderstood. The chapter emphasizes the need to understand these changes through study and research.
• 18:00 - 21:00: Generational Shifts and Remote Work This chapter delves into the evolving dynamics of work culture influenced by generational changes and the rise of remote work. It begins by pointing out how people are often drawn to superficial aspects of technology, what the speaker refers to as 'blinking lights and funny noises,' rather than its substantive potential. The discussion emphasizes the necessity of understanding these psychological trends and cultural shifts. There is a hint of a personal journey, where the speaker is prompted to share their passion and background story for entering this field, which is linked to a historical perspective, though the transcript cuts off before this is elaborated.
• 21:00 - 29:00: The Future of Work and C-Level Impact The chapter discusses the evolving landscape of work, particularly focusing on the challenges faced by individuals who have to balance high-powered corporate roles with personal life, such as family responsibilities. It reflects on personal experience, highlighting the necessity of adapting career paths to accommodate life changes, and explores the impact of such dynamics on C-Level executives.
• 29:00 - 34:00: Workforce Evolution and Corporate Interaction The chapter discusses the emergence of part-time or fractional Chief Financial Officers (CFOs). It begins with a personal anecdote from someone who transitioned into the part-time CFO role, acknowledging their previous experiences as a CFO and how they set up in this new capacity after consulting with others. The concept of a fractional CFO was a novel idea at the time, suggesting an evolving workforce structure that accommodates more flexible, less traditional roles within corporate interaction.
• 34:00 - 37:00: Future Work Vision and Human Connection The chapter titled 'Future Work Vision and Human Connection' discusses the potential for individuals to work with multiple small and medium enterprises (SMMEs) in a part-time, flexible arrangement. The narrator reflects on their personal experience of managing a portfolio of non-executive roles and sees an opportunity to apply this model to SMMEs. They acknowledge that while these businesses may not require or be able to afford full-time expertise, they can benefit from targeted part-time assistance. Additionally, the chapter highlights the possibility of balancing professional responsibilities with personal commitments, such as family time, by working locally with these businesses. This flexible work approach allows for a more harmonious integration of career and family life.
• 37:00 - 37:30: Closing Thoughts and Book Promotion The chapter discusses the author's transition from corporate life to starting a business with a partner. This change was driven by the desire for flexibility, variety, and control over one's life, which the author found lacking in traditional employment. The author expresses disillusionment with corporate work and values agency in personal and professional life decisions.
• 37:30 - 39:00: Conclusion and RSA Conference Reminder The chapter discusses the concept of fractional roles in various industries, drawing from the speaker's experience in advertising and branding. It highlights how these roles, although not traditionally labeled as 'fractional', have existed due to the necessity of consulting for multiple companies simultaneously. Furthermore, the chapter touches on the increasing prevalence of fractional Chief Information Security Officers (CISOs) and Chief Marketing Officers (CMOs) in the cybersecurity sector, addressing an audience query for further clarification.

Redefining Work in a Hybrid Society – Technology, Leadership, and the Future of Employment | Gues... Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] [Music] Sean Marco we are here to deliver a message from the RSA conference team
• 00:30 - 01:00 it's an important message from our friends RSA conference 2025 just around the corner where insights Drive action Solutions emerge and Community Connection spark Innovation you'll be there I'll be there we invite everybody else to be there April 28th through May 1st you can secure your spot at rsac conference.com ITP mag2 that's itpm ag25 see you all there I'll be there see you there [Music]
• 01:00 - 01:30 blackcloak provides concierge cyber security protection to corporate Executives and high net worth individuals to protect against hacking reputational loss Financial loss and the impacts of a corporate data breach learn more at blackcloak doio here we go welcome to another episode of redefining society and Technology podcast has always been
• 01:30 - 02:00 connected with technology I'm fascinated by it I talk about cyber security quite a bit with my partner Sean Martin on ITP magazine but my background is sociology of communication so anything that is connected with society and Tech um I'm all about it and there is no lack of topics to talk about if we can talk about smart cities cars healthc care um and lately of course we have changed a
• 02:00 - 02:30 lot of things because of Technology one of those is the way we work I mean look at this um if you're watching the video I'm with someone on the other side of uh of the Atlantic Ocean it was not too long ago and uh we're here having a conversation and we're actually going to talk about the future or the present actually already of of work and uh we're going to do that with Sara doe uh all the way from the UK and she's going to tell us a little bit about herself and
• 02:30 - 03:00 why she wrote the book that she wrote and that we're going to talk about Sarah welcome to the show thanks very much Marco so yes I'm saror I'm uh the group CEO of the CFO Center group The Liberty Group uh and uh very interested in the future of work our business provides fractional seite professionals to uh growing smmes and larger organizations and it's a
• 03:00 - 03:30 different way of working that challenges the employment model um very interested in that and also um also studying and researching this area more fully good we we need we need to understand what's going on as I as I often joke do we use technology to improve our life our experience our the way Humanity works and the way we interact with people or are we just
• 03:30 - 04:00 sucked in by what I like to call blinking lights and funny noises and uh and we just follow what is possible so doing some research understanding the psychology and how things has been changing I think I think is very important and and U yeah how did you get uh passionate about about this what's uh what's the background and the reason why uh you started working in this field yes so it it it goes back
• 04:00 - 04:30 um over 20 years now and actually it was from necessity so uh I had um I'd left corporate and done an MBA and then was thinking about my next move back into the working environment I just got married and I was having a family and I couldn't see myself um holding down a really high powerered corporate role and being there for my children and yet I couldn't also see a a job that enabled
• 04:30 - 05:00 me to do that so at the time um it was just the concept of uh a part-time or fractional CFO was just beginning to arrive um in the world and I and I was a CFO i' done that role and I thought you know I can do this so um set set myself up um actually after talking to
• 05:00 - 05:30 um someone who had a portfolio of non-exec roles I thought actually I could work with a portfolio of smmes they don't need me fulltime they don't want my skill set fulltime they can't afford it fulltime but they do need it so I could work with three four five of them however many days I wanted to work and I could also spend perhaps some of my week with my children and bring bring them up and be close to them and I could work locally um with these with these businesses so that so that's how it's started um I
• 05:30 - 06:00 connected um with my business partner and he he was already doing it and founded um the business I joined up and and off we went so it was it was disillusionment with corporate life and the fact that I wanted flexibility variety control over my life agency um and I couldn't see how I could do that in an employed environment yeah many times uh good
• 06:00 - 06:30 things come from necessity right it makes you think yeah so my my experience for the longest time has been to work in in advertising and branding and I feel like when you do that you're always kind of part-time you're kind of fractional because you work with a lot of different company you're a consultant so let's get into we didn't used to call it fractional and now even in in cyber security there is fractional ceso fractional CMOS and and all of that so can you help us uh in the audience maybe
• 06:30 - 07:00 understand and the definition of that especially because you focus on sea level so it's it's not a part-time as you know any any job but actually being a a SE Suite level part time so let let's let help me to Define that yes so I mean we we actually coined the phrase part-time here in the UK um when we first started actually um most of the people that work with us at that point
• 07:00 - 07:30 didn't really like that terminology because it implied that they didn't work why did you change it yeah um and the fractional word I think sums up quite nicely in terms of it hasn't got those connotations of of not being committed and sometimes part-time has that that connection um so fractional part-time whatever you want to call it portfolio um what it means is that instead of working for one business and and um
• 07:30 - 08:00 being fully uh and gainfully committed to just that one organization we uh we work with a a range of clients a range of businesses and it might be a day a week for one two days a month for another a day a month for someone else so we might work fulltime we might four days three days it doesn't really matter that's um up to the individual and that brings the flexibility um and the variety that they have yet the key thing is making sure every business we work with is is
• 08:00 - 08:30 dedicated and gets the amount of time that they need um and it helps to build some flexibility and some sort of gaps into the schedule so so that we can dial our time up and down um and the key thing is that it's sort of the fragmentation of jobs if you like so what I'm seeing is the unbundling of jobs and the fragmentation of them into activities um and work and by the
• 08:30 - 09:00 unbundling happening it means that um we can sort of sort through the the requirements of the job and fractional SE Suite individuals can pick up the elements of the roles that suit them and deliver value to the to the clients and the businesses they work with um and it doesn't have to be packaged up in a full-time role anymore um it also means you get the right skills at the right level for the right jobs because sometimes you find an employment that
• 09:00 - 09:30 you end up doing all sorts of things in your job just because you are full-time and actually it could be some of those roles and jobs could be served by you know different individuals and different skill sets at different levels so it's quite an efficient way of doing things but it's very different to packaged up full-time roles yeah I I agree the part-time is like uh you're part time so you don't really work here right like no no no no I work here just parttime the fractional
• 09:30 - 10:00 I feel I agree it's more of I'm dedicated to a specific task a specific role and I'm not going to stay here and as we used to say in the past inally to just warm up the chair just because I have to sit here for that amount of time now let let's dive into the core of what this podcast really is about which is how technology is helping to change society and the other way around so the the role are we able to do this
• 10:00 - 10:30 noways more effectively because of technology I think I know the answer but maybe you want to dive deeper into it and uh and what do you think is being really there been like a moment a like a a Tipping Point where people company started to accept something like this um instead of just like uh if you're not here I don't
• 10:30 - 11:00 know what you're doing I don't know if you really are working yeah it's a really it's a really good point so I mean uh if I if I take us through the the big changing point I mean we've been doing this for for over for 25 years and we were actually often the odd one out as you point out because we weren't present in the office uh alongside the full-time employees where the where the individuals that were com in and out however um obviously VI ly Co came along
• 11:00 - 11:30 I was bound to say that and that normalized this way of working obviously technology paed a huge part here because we all had to um suddenly you know work from home switch on our computers learn how to do remote um video conferencing now we were doing this before covid um so actually nothing changed for for for some of us but it but it's almost like the world caught up um and what's
• 11:30 - 12:00 interesting is that the business owners that we work with um began to realize through um experience that you didn't have to be sat next to each other in an office to deliver value uh because no one was doing that then and and actually what was really interesting was that the um the relationships actually um probably got a lot deeper during covid even though we were further away physically so the
• 12:00 - 12:30 technology filled that Gap and enabled us to feel much closer to each other because it was the only you know the only way that we could communicate often that in that environment and we the the Lines Blurred as well um quite a lot around how the Cadence of the work so before it would be complete days perhaps visiting an office and and then through the pandemic and since then it's the lines of blur and the packaging of
• 12:30 - 13:00 interaction of time has um fragmented into smaller Parcels if you like and we spend parts of days and hours at a time working with various different clients through using the technology and there's a there's a bigger feeling of closeness because there's more frequent interaction so when we surveyed uh the businesses we work with they're they're telling us that they feel closer to us um interestingly post pandemic than than
• 13:00 - 13:30 before that's interesting so I one of the point I make all the time is the the line between real world and virtual world it doesn't really exist anymore I mean there is the analog there is the digital but we we all leave unless you live in the wood somewhere um you interact with both and honestly as you say you know when I talk to people uh and I've been doing this for a long time time recording a podcast I I I establish a
• 13:30 - 14:00 relationship with them and I mean you you get to know each other either you're sipping that coffee on a table at a coffee shop or in an office or in a meeting room or you're doing it remotely I mean I still feel like you know we're still being human I know for a lot of people it's a stretch but you talked about kind of um if I remember well like re owning your your your your work again like
• 14:00 - 14:30 having a sense of explain that like like because you're not sharing the environment because you are in control of what you do you kind of like take back a certain level of ownership yeah so so the key thing in my research which I which I talk about in my book strategy and Leadership of service this way of working is that we we've moved from the payroll to an access role um so we're not employed but
• 14:30 - 15:00 are the businesses that we work with access our services and pay pay as they go which is sort of like uh the way to describe it that I find that's quite useful is describing it as we're the Spotify of the SE Suite so what I realized in my research was that because I wanted to know why our business model worked why do we have long-term relationships with businesses in the absence of employment contracts what else is holding these relationships
• 15:00 - 15:30 together so I started looking at other access economy models where you access Services rather than owning them and um so the likes of the disruptive business models of uber of Netflix of Spotify those businesses and what I realized was that a number of those businesses through um my research was that they have something called psychological ownership some of them baked into their models so if you take Spotify even though we don't own the music so we
• 15:30 - 16:00 haven't got the it's not CDs set on bookshelves anymore I mean obviously some of us still do that but um that isn't that model taking up space um in our homes instead we are accessing um vast quantities of music that we know other people are listening to at the same time we're logging on we're scrolling down and we're curating our music and because there's things like control of what music listen to how you put your playlist together all that sort
• 16:00 - 16:30 of thing that breeds um ownership feelings of ownership even though we know logically we don't own that music we're just accessing it so that was what I wanted to look into in uh my business was to just look at the relationships we had uh between the seite individuals and the firms they work with to see if the firms felt like like and the individuals
• 16:30 - 17:00 felt like they were together and and belonging to each other even though they didn't have an employment contract and that's and that's what I found was that there are certain things that make up psychological ownership and if you can bake those into the model it's things like intimacy it's things like doing things together and co-creating it's having control and when I say control of each other what I mean is we're accessible available and approachable for each other feeling safe psychologically if you can bake those things into the
• 17:00 - 17:30 relationship then it sort of doesn't matter that you um that there's no Employment contract because the relationship's strong anyway um and and will be will Thrive for the long term but you got to work on it all the time but that that's what I looked into do you feel like there are changes though that they this is going to be a little bit more philosophical but follow me there so I just published uh few
• 17:30 - 18:00 weeks ago a few days ago actually a conversation with uh um Leslie Shen and she's ahe of Nokia developing and Scouting For the cool new thing she has the best job in the world I mean really she's really fun she wrote a couple of books about one is about being native Native digital like native digital people that are born at the time and they never even you know know what the phone is and they wouldn't even know how
• 18:00 - 18:30 to use it apparently but they're familiar with smartphone they couldn't even think about a time where smartphone were not there social media and and all of this and and she had an entire approach on how their entire brain their business model think different because they're able to think abstract in the digital world which is also the real world right so is there
• 18:30 - 19:00 generational push to make all of this work remotely more acceptable or even more than acceptable but actually better I think it's I think it's really interesting to look at the generational changes like like you've just Illustrated there with the um adoption of of phone technology so if I if I take that through to the sort of working
• 19:00 - 19:30 environment um what I think is quite interesting is the generation Zeds coming through right now are um more used to using technology and to um to com to communicate and to work so I if I take my children for example they like messaging rather than picking the phone up uh to talk to each other or or to talk to someone else and I think if you they're also adopting gig working uh the
• 19:30 - 20:00 access economy um as a um as a default perhaps a bit more than than we ever did so the for My Generation generation x um we've gone to corporate we've done the full-time thing we've said no to that and we've come into the gig economy at a later stage I'm seeing the younger Generations just as you you just uh alluded to taking up from the get-go now this is interesting because the remoteness I think they are
• 20:00 - 20:30 comfortable doing the remoteness um and actually need to be almost it's the reverse that to my generation they need to be encouraged to build the relationships um outside of Technology as well as with technology so it's an and not an all um because there are definitely I feel advantages of seeing the holistic um Rel the relationship in a holistic sense not just through um a zoom call Etc um and I also think that um they
• 20:30 - 21:00 also they also do need to um to learn from each other and to learn from others and how are they going to do that if they do everything so remotely and how are they also going to do it if they don't join corporate because the other Trend I'm seeing is that they're sometimes shunning the corporate world from there's a distrust there and actually they'd rather sort of do gigging um and portfolio work all the
• 21:00 - 21:30 way through but how are they going to learn if they don't have that corporate experience and this is where I think mentoring needs to come in I think I think we need to adopt technology um to help us remotely and in person to and I also think um there needs to be a role of of mentoring the new generations through because otherwise they're not going to be able to learn the skills to then be able to you know add the value at a higher level
• 21:30 - 22:00 so I think that's and I don't have all the answers to how they're going to do that but I I those are some of the challenges that I see in the future of work we never have all the answers in this conversation if we had the answers we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway um I want to ask you one more thing and then and then I want to put the the the futurist hats on and have some fun uh imagine what the future will be um the sea level so you you talk
• 22:00 - 22:30 about this is a your research applies to to the sea level does is exclusively related to them or what are the vertical or the industry or the type of jobs that eventually could then trickle down to those that are not in the sea level position and why is it I'm going to say easier with the air quotes for those listening I'm doing the air quotes easier for somebody in the management
• 22:30 - 23:00 position to actually adopt this kind of work um yes that's a really good question so I see it it I I talk about the sea level end of the gig economy being the privileged end if you like so they're doing it out of choice Freedom of Choice as opposed to necessity and they searching autonomy Independence Agency all that sort of stuff but they also want to belong which is why organizations like you know like mine exists because we're we're we're
• 23:00 - 23:30 then a community but you know you can find your own Community you know informally as well but we still want to be human beings and belong but why do they do it as opposed to the the younger generations and and I do feel that lower levels can do it as well one of the reasons is that to get going because this is still quite new way of working to get going you know you start off with no business and you've got to support yourself through um a period where you're
• 23:30 - 24:00 investing to learn the skills to find to win and to keep clients to work with and you need a financial Runway to do that uh you and what you often find is that the the lower level um management layers you know perhaps they're going you know they've got more dependence their kids are still at home if they've got kids they've got young kids um they haven't got so much resources behind them and so it it t it's a big biger job for them to
• 24:00 - 24:30 you know really invest to um learn the skills and to and to um build their um this way of working I am seeing it happen it's not it's not that it's not happening but I think it's easier when you've already got an established career you've done the corporate role you you know you've got some resources behind you and you can you you can afford to change careers but however what I am seeing going forward is you know if we're going to be living to 100 on average we're going to be working for 80
• 24:30 - 25:00 odd years we're going to have multi careers there's no doubt about it and I think there's going to be periods where we're stepping back and perhaps Partners or family members will support us while we invest to do um something you know to to invest to make a change and I think there'll be you know partners and and couples that you know to and fro through that and support each other and sort of contract with each other to design their lives so that they can pivot um and have
• 25:00 - 25:30 you know three or four four or five careers um and I I I think that's going to happen uh as we go forward so you you see it more as an investment for the employee than the employer meaning can you just join a company to say hey you know what um we work from home we we won't fractional as much as we can can here's all the tool here's our training
• 25:30 - 26:00 for you to do that I mean the way you present it is more on on the on the employees shoulder do you do you feel like because I see headline now they're like everybody goes back to work at Amazon I'm like uh okay I think you're kind of going the wrong direction but may be me but there is also that push that I find it weird but I mean I'm sure they're doing they have their own reason but is
• 26:00 - 26:30 there a a future where maybe the company is the company the companies are ready to embrace and train and support this new kind of Workforce I would really hope that organizations will um be comfortable with hybrid you know remote working I mean I'm I'm all for that because I I feel then you're you're giving the agency to the individuals to craft their
• 26:30 - 27:00 jobs in the way that they know best to do it and obviously with Vice and that gives you fulfillment and meaning in in our work so I would hope that that would continue rather than being mandated back into the office as we're seeing a few organizations do now in terms of the fractional world where you're self-employed and independent and working for a range of businesses I I believe that that you
• 27:00 - 27:30 know if we're really going forward in time what I'm seeing at the moment is that um even corporates say are um they need to innovate for the future of work there's no doubt about it the the um individuals that have The Cutting Edge Leading Edge skills um that those corporates need to you know meet the global challenges that are coming at them are most often self-employed the
• 27:30 - 28:00 digital Nomads the remote workers doing you know and and they're getting super exposed to all the um Tech and issues um in a in a wide variety of ways that corporates could only dream of having internally from their employee base so the corporates need to engage with these individuals but these individuals do not want to be employed because they want to sit on their you know beaches somewhere you know in an environment in a nice
• 28:00 - 28:30 sunny location um in a virtual world uh collaborating with peers doing the same thing and learning all these new skills so I really see that a challenge going forward is for these bigger organizations to learn how to contract with these Freelancers um how are they going to contract with them because what they're worried about is security um are these people going to leave them in the Lurch are they going to go off to a more
• 28:30 - 29:00 exciting project and how do you balance off the fact that you've got these freelances who can pretty much do what they want because they're delivering the bacon around the um around the the the content of the work compared to the employees who are who are the stable base the loyal base uh but don't have that Innovation mindset and skill set um but they're employed so you've got these you Blended Workforce that these corporates have to manage I think that's
• 29:00 - 29:30 a huge issue going forward and and and part of the solution I think and I at the moment will be firstly you've got to really understand how to engage with these two people two sets of people and how they work together and secondly that there could be popping up more businesses that are more like the organization that that I represent which is more of an organizer of Freelancers so so an intermediary if you like that
• 29:30 - 30:00 will look after the individual and make sure they're vetted the right person they're not going to leave the corporate in the Lurch all the corporates have got to create that in that that um that skill set internally to manage those Freelancers so those are the sorts of things that that I'm seeing yeah and my head is going because then I think it that whatever model works for the sea level it could eventually with technology coming through work for other level as well and
• 30:00 - 30:30 I'm thinking like in my head I've see remote control Robotics and AI where the supervisor instead of being present is just wearing goggles and being wherever in the world they want to be so with that let's have fun for five minutes and and and let's talk about what you you could Envision so I just throw in there augmented reality goggles and when when zberg decided to change Facebook into med I was envisioning a a metaverse that
• 30:30 - 31:00 we don't hear about anymore but it's still there where people would just be having meeting in in that environment and then it's like well you know is it really going to be like that but the point is the future is going to come no matter either you you want it or not it's going to come I mean you you say Generation X I'm a Generation X I was excited about the Walkman when I was a kid so imagine putting on a really cool virtual reality goggle and so point is you know
• 31:00 - 31:30 everything is new when it's new and and it's old when it's old but um the bottom line is how how do you envision I don't know whatever years from now um the future of work and are we are you on the side of those that think that we're just going to become alienated by everything and and and M touch with reality or it's just going to be a different kind of reality and we're just going to change society and still be
• 31:30 - 32:00 human just a little bit different you can go wherever you want with this yeah yeah I mean I'm on the side of of humans wanting connection with each other so I'm I'm I'm in an and position I think um I feel of course we're going to see fragmentation of jobs which is going to be Divi some of and then the the tasks that make up those jobs are going to be done by some of it by humans and some of it by
• 32:00 - 32:30 Automation and and and that partnership and that augmentation of doing it together um so I I definitely see that and I think it's going and I also think things are going to be done more at the point of sale so you know we're going to have things happening more um just in time um at the at the point at which the customer wants to buy so it can be incredibly personalized and um and customized to I
• 32:30 - 33:00 think we're going to see more and more of that because of the use of technology and and the partnership with with humans but I am but I am still very much in the place of however we we partner and work with machines I feel as humans we are still going to want some human connection between each other and so somehow we need to fulfill our sense of
• 33:00 - 33:30 um belonging and intimacy and safety um and so but that may not necessarily come from the traditional Ora it won't come from the traditional way of of going into offices and doing work it's GNA I think it's going to be fulfilled in many other different ways maybe even communities outside of work but by task or by discipline um so I do see it being as much more sort of dispersed and not we're not going to be so
• 33:30 - 34:00 connected into um the community of our work I think there'll be many communities that we will be part of that we will draw um relationships from and everything will be much more dispersed and fragmented but at the end of the day still think we want that human connection and I don't know how that's going to come well I I love that you put the the
• 34:00 - 34:30 option and and you highlighted the fact that maybe it's not just one dimension it's not the dimension of somebody getting a job and when he's after college or after high school or whatever it is and spending the entire life in that environment where that become your world and I think you're opening the door to a more to me exciting opportunity to change things to to live with different community and
• 34:30 - 35:00 fulfill maybe that Community need an inter relationship need outside of the work environment which I think would be a really cool thing me personally other may not and if you if you think about it if we're going to have multi-stage careers so the old way is education employment retirement if we're now going to have that much more blurred and um not in a not linear like that anymore but um you
• 35:00 - 35:30 know periods of employment periods of self-employment periods of learning um which will be dotted throughout a career you you we're going to have scenarios where you're going to have older individuals um learning brand new things with with youngsters and I think there's a beauty in that because we're going to have we're going to have that mix of experience which I think brings a real richness to learning and perspectives
• 35:30 - 36:00 and and you know that's just one dimension I'm looking at it in terms of age but I think that's another uh beauty of everything being mixed up if you like and losing this sort of linear um you know set way of doing things yeah and I think it's happening in education as well I had few conversation about about that uh big conversation I mean obviously work is it's it's a huge part of our life our society I mean it's uh it's
• 36:00 - 36:30 very important to look at this and I I thank you for kind of opening this conversation a little bit outside of the sea level so thank you for following me into into the future and a little bit of thinking and and as I'd like to say if uh if people have more questions than answers when we get to the end of an episode I think I did my job and I think you did your job right right because
• 36:30 - 37:00 it's important to question everything and maybe um just because we've always done it that way it doesn't mean we have to that's that's a big thing yeah yeah so uh Sarah uh thank you for stopping by for everybody listening your book strategy and leadership as a service um will be linked here in the notes uh we'll connect I'll share on social
• 37:00 - 37:30 media and uh we'll stay in touch and for everybody interested in learning more about what you do your book and your and all your expertise and knowledge uh they can get in touch with you so thank you very much brilliant thanks very much really enjoy being here yeah really enjoy I hope everybody enjoys subscribe share and keep thinking that's that's that's the most important thing honestly take care everybody
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