Sunday Session: In the Beginning - The Journey of Steve Maroun

Summary

Highlights

• Steve started his property journey with a bold 24 apartment project. 🏗️
• His father's past experiences with financial adversities during the GFC provided invaluable insights. 💡
• The struggle of learning finance dynamics was a pivotal part of Steve's growth in the industry. 🔑
• Steve emphasized the importance of having mentors and learning from others' mistakes. 🧑‍🏫
• Starting small in property development helps mitigate risks and build necessary skills. 🧱

Key Takeaways

• Everyone starts with their 'deal number one' and it's okay if it's not perfect. 🚀
• Mentors are invaluable; they help you avoid common mistakes and accelerate your success. 👨‍🏫
• Resilience and adaptability are crucial in property development. 🛠️
• Starting with smaller projects can help mitigate risks and facilitate learning. 🧩
• In property development, learning from mistakes builds stronger foundations for future success. 🔍

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 01:00: Introduction and Welcome The chapter titled 'Introduction and Welcome' begins with Rob Flux introducing himself, greeting his audience, and setting the stage for the session. It's a 'Sunday Session,' indicating a casual or regular talk that Rob conducts. This particular session is noted as being special, though the details of why it is special are not included in the transcript snippet. The background music suggests a welcoming ambiance, drawing listeners in for an engaging discussion. The content likely serves as an opening to a broader topic that Rob will explore in this session.
• 01:00 - 02:00: Lanevick Overview The chapter titled 'Lanevick Overview' introduces a concept called 'In The Beginning,' which aims to motivate and inspire by taking successful property developers and investors back to their first deal, emphasizing that everyone starts somewhere. The chapter sets up a discussion with Steve Maroun from Lanevick as a special guest to elaborate on these experiences and insights for the audience.
• 03:00 - 05:00: Steve Maroun's Personal Journey This chapter covers Steve Maroun's personal journey, beginning with a reflection on a past event at the Urban Developer Industry Leader Awards. Despite not winning any awards, the event was remembered positively with good food, drinks, and camaraderie among nominees.
• 07:00 - 13:00: First Property Deal & Challenges In this chapter titled 'First Property Deal & Challenges', the speaker introduces Lanevick, a boutique family business specializing in property development and construction. With over 2,000 homes constructed and more than 30 years of experience, Lanevick operates mainly on the Eastern Seaboard. The conversation highlights the significant achievements of Lanevick and sets the stage for discussing their first property deal and the challenges faced.
• 14:00 - 18:00: Construction During Covid-19 The chapter discusses the evolution of a construction business in Sydney, which initially focused on medium to high-density projects and pivoted to the luxury residential space following the Covid-19 pandemic. This shift marks a return to the original focus of the founder, the speaker's father, who started the business over 30 years ago.
• 18:00 - 23:00: Transition to Smaller Deals The chapter titled 'Transition to Smaller Deals' narrates the journey of an immigrant who arrived in a new country in the mid-1980s with nothing but the shirt on his back and no understanding of the local language. To survive, he entered a trade, specifically cement rendering, and gradually built his business. About 10 to 15 years after his arrival, significant business developments took place.
• 27:00 - 34:00: Lessons and Mentor Importance The chapter discusses the journey of two brothers who ventured into property development during the boom years of the late 90s. They experienced significant success until the global financial crisis wiped out nearly everything they had, except their family house. This period coincided with the narrator finishing secondary school and marks the beginning of their own journey with Lanevick around 2013-2014. The chapter emphasizes the transition period the narrator went through before fully engaging with the family business, highlighting the importance of lessons learned and mentorship.
• 39:00 - 43:00: Challenges and Overcoming Adversity In this chapter titled 'Challenges and Overcoming Adversity,' the speaker shares a personal journey motivated by the desire for financial success due to past financial struggles. While academically successful, the speaker was unsure of their future path after secondary school, knowing only the desire to enter the business world to make money. The chapter highlights the impact of financial challenges during upbringing as a driving force in the speaker's ambition.
• 53:00 - 63:00: Personal Development & Reflection The chapter titled 'Personal Development & Reflection' describes a pivotal moment in the author's life when they transitioned from pursuing a degree in law to starting a property maintenance company. Despite doing well in school and enrolling in a law degree, the author quickly realized that they did not want to spend four years preparing for a career as a solicitor. Instead, they leveraged handyman skills learned during holidays and weekends to embark on a different career path, illustrating themes of self-reflection and proactive career planning.
• 71:00 - 80:00: Advice for Aspiring Developers This chapter provides advice for aspiring developers by sharing a personal story. The speaker describes starting as a one-man business, intending to handle all tasks, including finding help when needed. To begin building their network, they printed a list of 100 local real estate businesses and started door-knocking. The experience necessitated growing a beard and using beard oil, symbolizing a commitment to the new role. After persistent efforts, they succeeded when a woman named Olga gave them their first opportunity in maintenance work, marking the beginning of their journey.
• 81:00 - 83:00: Conclusion The conclusion chapter summarizes the journey of someone who started with small property maintenance jobs, such as changing a fence paling, and gradually progressed to more extensive renovations like bathrooms and kitchens. Over the course of three years, this person balanced studying with running a successful property maintenance company. Ultimately, their work led to securing a government contract for inspecting social housing, marking a significant milestone and opportunity.

Sunday Session: In the Beginning - The Journey of Steve Maroun Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] Hi, folks! It's Rob Flux here with another  Sunday Session and today is a very special
• 00:30 - 01:00 one. We don't do these very often but it's called  In The Beginning. It is following the journey of   mega successful Property Developers and Property  Investors in their space and taking them all the   way back to deal number one because it doesn't  matter how big and how successful you are,  everyone had to start with deal number one. It's  a way to motivate and inspire our audience out  there to say that doesn't matter where you're  starting but you can achieve massive outcomes. Now, today I've got a very special guest, Steve Maroun so from Lanevick. Steve, welcome
• 01:00 - 01:30 aboard, mate! Rob, thanks very much. Looking  forward to it. Thank you, mate. Now, we met at the   Urban Developer Industry Awards, Industry Leader  Awards going back, close to a year now. I think,   maybe, not quite that long but yeah. That's right. We weren't fortunate on the night, however I think we were in the losers camp you and  I so.. We were both nominated. That's right. So   enjoyed a lovely dinner and some nice drinks and  got to clap at a couple of people a little more
• 01:30 - 02:00 worthy than us on the day. That said, mate. You've  done some fantastic things in your world. Now,   a lot of people may not have come across Lanevick.  So, why don't you give us the two second tour of   Lanevick because you're doing some massive things.  Over 2,000 homes constructed and 30 plus years   experience, mate. Thanks, Rob! Appreciate it. We're a boutique family business. We develop   and construct in-house, we're focused  predominantly on the Eastern Seaboard
• 02:00 - 02:30 of Sydney. We've sort of grown from that  medium to high density and then had to pivot   after Covid and we focus now where we my father  originally started 30 plus years ago in that   luxury residential space. So, now, you mentioned  I guess your father. So, this is a business that he was an immigrant from memory. So, he himself has been somebody who's come
• 02:30 - 03:00 from nothing. Give me some insight. Correct. Give  me some insights into his journey. Yeah. So, his   journey started in the mid 80s. Immigrated from  overseas with the typical immigrant story just a   shirt on their back, no grasp of the language, had  to go into a trade. They started cement rendering. He steadily grew his business and about 10 to  15 years after starting here, they, him and his
• 03:00 - 03:30 brothers, delved into Property Development.  They started in the late 90s broad big boom, did quite well for themselves. GFC came,  wiped out pretty much everything except   family house and that was when I simultaneously  culminated with myself finishing secondary school,   and the journey of Lanevick started  in that 2013-2014 time. So, but,   so I guess in that transition period though you  didn't go straight into jumping into the family
• 03:30 - 04:00 business. You yourself went on a little bit of your own journey. Yeah, that's right.  That's right. My personal story. So, my  personal story was academically I did quite well  at school, I didn't know what I wanted to do after   finishing secondary school. I just knew that  I wanted to be in business and just make money   as taboo or as bad that is as it is sound. That was my motivation. I think because of   the struggles financially. I think growing  up that sort of impacted myself. Anyway,
• 04:00 - 04:30 I finished school, I went into decided to go into  and start a law degree because I did quite well at   that in school and remember walking into my first  class and fundamentals of law and I was like I do   not want to wait four years to you know go down  the route of being practicing student solicitor,   opening up a firm, and going and doing that.  So, I was like what can I do and I picked up   some handyman skills and I'd learned some, you know some things in the holidays and the weekends and whatnot. And so, I was like I'll  go and start a property maintenance company. My
• 04:30 - 05:00 value ad is that I'm a one-stop shop and my idea was you know I'll get the work and I'll   find someone that can help me you know with the work. And so, I printed out a list of   100 local Real Estates. I went and started door  knocking. I had to grow this beard, had to get   some good beard oil. And so, I then was fortunate  enough. I was fortunate enough. I remember the   first lady, her name was Olga, she gave me  a shot at the my first probably maintenance
• 05:00 - 05:30 job. It was a fence, was to change a couple of  fence paling and that sort of slowly grew from   you know fence paling to painting like painting a  room to then renovating a bathroom to renovating   a kitchen. And so, over those next 3 years, I was  literally going and studying and at the same time   had this property maintenance company that was  doing quite well for itself. Well then fortunate   enough to pick up a government contract. I'm  inspecting social housing and then the opportunity
• 05:30 - 06:00 came up and opportunities don't I guess in  hindsight now, it was such a huge opportunity,   and at the time it just seemed like it was the  right transition. The house came up next door   to the family house and we made the decision to  go ahead with it and acquire the block of land.   And what that acquisition meant was that we were  able now to amalgamate my parents' home and put a
• 06:00 - 06:30 Development Application on that for apartments.  And so being clear, this is your first deal,   right? It's very unorthodox. It's a.. but it sort  of it came from an opportunity that I guess being   younger and being a bit naive about what the  struggles are seemed right at the time and so we   were able.. so that that was the opportunity  there. Okay. But at the exact same time,
• 06:30 - 07:00 while you said you picked up the site next door  and you're going to amalgamate that with dad had   just gone through his own financial difficulties  himself with the GFC. And so, whilst it sounds   really good. Hey, I'm teaming up with dad. He's  got all this industry experience and sounds like   the nice gravy train but in reality dad was in  a bit of trouble. It was quite the opposite. That's exactly right. So, if it wasn't for  those 3-4 years or those 3 years prior with
• 07:00 - 07:30 the property maintenance company doing what it  was doing, that there would have been you know   no chance at all. It would have had to just go  traditionally through an auction and it probably   you know would have been someone else's story.  So but, what happened to dad? Why was dad in   difficulty and why was this both an opportunity  for you and also I guess an ability? Yeah,   great question? So, at the time, after the..  During that GFC period, the banks became..   they start calling in their construction loans and  particularly in commercial lending. It's a very I
• 07:30 - 08:00 guess dog-eat-dog world and so at the time where  the GFC started, there was millions of dollars   of product on the market that my father and his  partners were involved in and where the values   who's estimated at 600,000 say for a two-bedroom  apartment. All of a sudden the bank's values came   in and slashed that at 300,000 and you had  to come up with the shortfall to maintain the
• 08:00 - 08:30 LBR that was required. And so, pretty much they came in overtook, sold them, they made the profits   just it was quite as I said quite doggy dog. And so, it pretty much it put my father   and his partners back on their journey that they started 20 years   earlier. Yeah. So, one I guess force that was  outside their control being the GFC has taken away
• 08:30 - 09:00 20 years of hard work and hard.. Hard work but not but the lessons stayed there and   I think this now sort of culminates into the first  key takeaway which is mentors. I think you only do   learn from mistakes but they don't need to be your  own. And so, they that was the key takeaway for me   was okay great, you've been through this and we can now takeaway from this,
• 09:00 - 09:30 what went wrong and we can ensure that this new  foundation that we're building it has the.. we can   you know avoid it of you know of those risks  I guess. Yeah. Now, this particular project, amalgamating the two sides, you said apartments.  It wasn't the smallest project on earth, mate. It   wasn't at all. And again, it comes back to being I  guess young and naive, I mean you sort of I think
• 09:30 - 10:00 as Developers naturally, you're just optimistic  and you don't I think there's a great saying   ignorance is bliss, you honestly do not know  what you're getting yourself into until you're   in the middle of it and you've got no option  but to keep going through. And so, as I said   for me that was our that was the opportunity  that presented itself for myself and you know I just assume that I guess with the experience  of the mentor, being my father there along with
• 10:00 - 10:30 you know my willing to learn and willing to  adapt and willing to grow, we'd be able to   get through it. And so, it started the process  of commissioning the first Surveyor out on site,   starting with the Architect, starting with  the Environmental Consultant, starting with   the all the Engineers and whatnot. It started a  4-year journey which probably should have only   been a year journey because you've got you know you've got an asset. You've got a.. you're working
• 10:30 - 11:00 on a DA, but we were just working and putting  it back with Consultants, working covenanting   it with Consultants, working.. And so, it  started I guess a journey of persistence,   sweat, blood and tears, and we were looking back  now, it's almost it's extraordinary when I think   about how the hell we got through it. But we got through it and got to that point. So,   just to put it in perspective because I don't  think you've actually mentioned the deal size.
• 11:00 - 11:30 This was 24 apartments for deal number one, folks. So.. That's right. That's right. It was 24   apartments, four stories over a basement. Yeah. So, with nothing to compare it against I   mean as I said it just seemed right. Yeah. So, for  everybody out there, that's been listening to me   I guess don't do that for deal number one.  Exactly. I think step one in your 9 steps
• 11:30 - 12:00 is start small or start in something that  you can manage or you can understand. Yeah.   This is the complete opposite. So, maybe we  can take away what not to do from from this.   Well, I can reassure everyone that you're not  the only one who made that mistake. I went too   big too early as well. Exactly right. And  I went backwards after deal number one,   I didn't quite go 24 apartments but I did go 8.  Well see, I went from after 24, we went to 2. So,
• 12:00 - 12:30 and this is the thing is that opportunity comes  and goes and you've almost, I'm a big believer   in that when it knocks on your door if you do not  take it, it's going to go and you don't know when   it will come back, and I guess at the time as I  said it just seemed bright. It seemed like the   you know the stars were aligned and so we decided to go down that route but yeah to   delve now into the story of that particular  deal over the next as I said four years.   Culminated in working on that Development  Application, working on that approval.
• 12:30 - 13:00 We were successful in obtaining the approval and  then we looked at ourselves and like okay we now   need to get this funded. And funding and finance  started to I started to learn about that world   and soon I realised it was like it means nothing  that you have land, it means nothing that you've   got approval. This whole game is finance with I  think there's that saying with some houses thrown   in the middle, right? And I was like this is just  extraordinary like the you know the I guess the
• 13:00 - 13:30 servicing and leverage and you know interest  rates and line fees and application cost, like what is this all like. We just have this  vision, we want to deliver it just can't you   see the.. and so we have to start thinking  creatively and it started an 18-month journey   of understanding how are we going to get this  thing financed, and we were fortunate enough to
• 13:30 - 14:00 be able to raise some seed capital. On the back  of that seed capital, we were able to finance   through a senior, through a big form and we had  solved this huge problem and learned so much along   that way and positioned us to start construction. Yeah. So, for anyone else out there when you're   starting to do deals of this size, residential  lending just doesn't work, folks. So, we had to go   through residential lending for the acquisition. So we understood that realm, right? However,
• 14:00 - 14:30 the deal size that you're financing on acquisition  versus the construction loan as you know is you   need to then go to commercial lending. Like  there's no other option. Which means you need   to raise equity because commercial lenders  want to make sure that there's enough skin   in the game that if the event that they don't lose  because they'll only ever lend you money the day   you prove that you don't need it. Exactly right,  mate. They come in at the back end after you've
• 14:30 - 15:00 you know you've put up all your blood,  sweat, and tears. So, we we're positioned   right. We're ready to start construction.  Our ducks are in order, finance is approved,  our DA, our construction certificate is there  to go. We break dirt on the first day and the  government declares a national pandemic.  This is 2019. This is 2020, February 2020
• 15:00 - 15:30 about what's that five years ago  now. And we looked at each other,   further the team and we were like, what the  hell are we going to do? And my father to his   credit and again riding on the experience of  your mentors. He was, he had only one answer   and the one answer was you've got to put  your head down and just do what you can do. You can control only what you can  control and everything outside is not
• 15:30 - 16:00 in your realm. You leave that. Let that be.  So we put our head down and it turned out   to be the best time ever and probably the  last time ever to construct in New South   Wales. They opened up Sundays. Labor was at an  all-time low. Supply was at an all-time low.   We were able to build these apartments in 10 and  a half months. From start date which in today's   timeline is about an 18-month program. Yeah.  People were just people were doing anything they   could do to our trades, were just doing anything  they could do just get get out of the house. So,
• 16:00 - 16:30 construction was a critical industry and so we  were just rolling and rolling and rolling and you   couldn't do anything other than work. And so, we  were very fortunate, very fortunate. Now looking   in hindsight that we did continue because a lot  of of other developers they closed, they closed   the fences and they're like we just want to wait  and see what's going to happen and so we were very   fortunate that we put our head down. We had no  other choice to be honest with you and persevere.
• 16:30 - 17:00 So, push forward and then at the tail end of  that I guess the building bonuses came out   and all those sorts of things. The government, if  you remember, I think Scott Morrison at the time   just pumping and stimulating their money  maker being the property industry. And so,   home builder, first home buyer grants, stamp duty, concessions and our product
• 17:00 - 17:30 was perfectly placed to pick up all that value  add from the government policies. And so these   two bedroom two bathroom and one bedroom were just flying out the door. They   perfectly placed, perfectly located. We  were fortunate enough that we were able   to sell these things at the back end at a time  a lot quicker than we originally thought. So,   I guess and it would I guess located  very close to train station. Correct.
• 17:30 - 18:00 So, this is Western Sydney, Parramatta and so you know generally, the zonings   in these areas I mean if it's zoned for  high density I think the state government has done their research before you to understand  that they want density there. However,   at that time being with the amount of  immigrants that were coming in overseas,   well at that time there was no immigrants coming  overseas but given the property being such a
• 18:00 - 18:30 critical part of our government's revenue, they  realised we need to keep this beast alive. And so, they just stimulated it and pushed it up. And  that culminated to that 30-40% increases in   construction which was led from inflation, and it was the same thing that was happening   worldwide. Yeah. Like logistical supply  chains were causing all sorts of problems   in the construction side. But at the same time  because the building boost, well the building   grant was there, that was creating I guess a need  and a drive that was compensating that from a
• 18:30 - 19:00 sale perspective. Correct. So, it was demand  side incentives and we were as I said again,   perfectly placed to benefit from that upside.  And the fact that you constructed everything so   quickly meant that your exposure to those,  I guess building cost increases was much   shorter from a duration perspective. So, you didn't.. Right, we honestly again looking
• 19:00 - 19:30 in hindsight, we jumped on the last train that  from from the war zone that we have now. We were literally we started seeing and this now sort of  transitions to the next stage which was we sort of   I guess comparatively started here and then had  to pivot because we started to read in America,   the inflation, what it was doing there, the  construction rate, what it was doing there   and we were doing feasibilities here and we  were doing you know real deep analysis here
• 19:30 - 20:00 and trying to okay what's the next thing  you know, what are we going to do next,   and you know we've had this 4-5 year journey. And we honestly couldn't find anything that we   put down DD on a few sites, lost a bit of money  there but I guess we learned from those lessons   and we decided that we were going to get out  of investment product in Sydney and revert back   to actually where my father actually started  which was building luxury boutique in Russell
• 20:00 - 20:30 Lea. And so, we then pivoted to starting in  triplexes. So, you've gone from 24 down to 2 from deal one to deal two.  Exactly right. So maybe,  we should tell people what to do. Let's start  from deal two and start that journey. Well again,  whilst I didn't do 24 my very next deal was a  number two as well for most of the reasons that I   think you're about to say. So, why did you go back  to duplex, mate? Yeah. So, really it was market
• 20:30 - 21:00 driven but it was also fundamentally I think where  the business was at, it was literally at a very   early stage and so we had to revert back and build  back ground up. There was an opportunity being the   apartment, we capitalized on that, we're able to  complete the project but it was very sporadic,   right, and it was very I guess all over the  place you know. I was wearing four, five,   six different hats while was wearing you know the  same amount of hats and everything was everywhere,
• 21:00 - 21:30 right, because it was the outcome and the  goal was just to complete this project. So,   all hands are on deck. When that completed, we  then had our brains back about us. We could think   you know we were I guess financially we weren't as  burdened as we were previously. And so, we had to   then go back to square one and build ground up,  focus on our systems, focus on our operations,   focus on our structures. And that coincided with  the market I guess pivoting to more the owner
• 21:30 - 22:00 occupy space and I guess with the capital that we  had at the time, we then I guess started again in   duplexes and that started the journey in I think  late 2020. We started from you know duplexes,   we then found that and it wasn't just duplexes,  it was more owner occupied product that was our  whole shift. Our shift is  you know we want to service  owner occupies. And so, from I think we did the three duplexes, we then pivoted into a three
• 22:00 - 22:30 lot subdivision infill, sorry two, sorry four lot  subdivision infill, then a two lot, then we did   a.. this is coinciding with our, so we had sort of  two channels that we were running. We were running   a infill land sub sort of arm and a boutique  luxury residential arm. And we started as I said,   the two, we did a four loter, then a two loter, then we did a well right now we're doing   a 14 loter, and then the top arm, we did  duplex-duplex, we then delved into terraces,
• 22:30 - 23:00 and right now we're doing that sort of one  of our flagship projects. Right now is the   six terraces in railway and so, we position ourselves in those centres   that we know the state government really wanted  density. I think, when the labor government came   in, they made it quite clear particularly in the  state government in New South Wales, they couldn't
• 23:00 - 23:30 afford or they didn't want to invest anymore to go  out. They wanted to go up. And so, we positioned   ourselves in those pockets in both arms. Yeah. So,  and I guess, for anyone who's been following me   for some time, they're the exact same lessons that  I'm teaching, is understand where the transport   corridors are the growth nodes. That's going  to tell you where the density is going to go, and then depending upon the products that you're  creating, you're either in the middle of where   the density is adjacent to it or or just within  a few streets of it. Correct. Most definitely.
• 23:30 - 24:00 So, we've been, yeah, so that's coincided. You know we've obviously been able to employ,   you know options, delayed settlements with early  access, I think that's one of the things you   teach. We've been able to employ many different  I guess property tools to build our pipeline now   that we're very proud to have gotten to now I  think it's it's 130 or 140 million or something
• 24:00 - 24:30 like that. And so, that's where I guess we are now  as a business. And so, congratulations by the way,   because that's mega achievement actually trying to  do that, especially considering the short duration   that you've actually done. I think you've done just looking at your website 2,000 plus homes   in that timeline in some way shape or  form. Yeah. So huge achievement, mate. No,
• 24:30 - 25:00 I appreciate that. Appreciate that. Yeah, look  we've been as I said very fortunate to be able   to leverage on mentors. I think the biggest  return that you can get in this earth is time.  Like I think, as you sort of know, when you sort  of deal with the financial issues of things,   the next, the only thing that becomes important is  time and it's like how can I quicken the learning   curve so that I can get to say if a mentors learns  it in 20 years, I can get there in eight years or
• 25:00 - 25:30 if mentors learn in 10 years, I can get there in  three years. And so, I've really prior like really   prioritized learning from you know learning  from the mistakes of others or learning from   the taking away from others. And so, that was  where also personal development and throwing   and immersing myself in those that are. It's  funny when we're in the midst of a crisis or   the midst of a problem, we think we're the only  ones that have ever got through it and that there   is no one out there that there is someone there  is people out there that have been through what
• 25:30 - 26:00 you've been through and they know how to get  through it. Just go out and look for it and   don't be scared to ask for help. And so, I  think humbling yourself and really sort of   understanding that, putting your ego to the side  and saying I don't know everything. You know,   although I may have runs on the board but there's  still where we want to get to as a business,   it's still a long way away. And so, we need to  continuously be you know reinventing ourselves
• 26:00 - 26:30 and growing and putting ourselves in the deep end  to really be able to I guess fulfill the potential   that we've been I guess blessed with. That's one  of my day-to-day sort of I guess maxims. The fact   that you went back to those smaller deals almost  instantly, do you regret having gone for the big   deal first go? Like was it I know that you said  it was the right opportunity the right time,   but I think would have done it differently. Yeah. Look, I definitely look if like looking
• 26:30 - 27:00 back now, it's funny. I think the money that  we made in the apartment project was the same   it would have made. It was the same money we  actually made as the triplex one and I think   it was a lot more, was a lot more easier to take  those learnings on a lower scale. Development is   incredibly high risk and at any point in time,  one minor issue can derail the whole project,
• 27:00 - 27:30 and so definitely looking in hindsight, I  would definitely say if I was starting again,   it will definitely be starting in you know  much smaller, you know. Let it be a duplex,   let it be a triplex, you know a four-pack. I think learning on a smaller scale means   that the failings that you make are not critical  to the project success. You know one bad project
• 27:30 - 28:00 or one bad period in time learning, you  know looking at my father's experience,   looking at many other Developers experience  can push you back 20 years, 15-20 years and so. Definitely particularly, if you're  starting out and you've built up   this nest egg or this investment, you  know this investment fund for yourself,  you don't want to you know, you don't  want to be just I guess aimlessly you   know throwing it to the throwing caution  to the wind. I understand and I'd agree
• 28:00 - 28:30 with every bit of that sentiment,  mate. So, a slight change here. So,   in your instance, I guess dad was a builder  and then you've now taken on the building   mantle as well. Correct. And have your own  builder's license. So, as Builder Developers,  do you find that that's an advantage or  do you find that that's a disadvantage
• 28:30 - 29:00 in coming in and assessing deals? See,  it's funny you ask that question. You know,   ask a bank five-six years ago before Covid  and they'll tell you, our lending policies   is about half what we'd give to Traditional  Developers, right? Because they build Developers,   we're viewed as high risk. Today, you ask a  bank and they're like we don't want Developers,  we want Builder Developers. And so, to  answer your question, there is definitely a  competitive advantage when you do have that  construction in-house. However, at the same time,   the downside of that is that you're not able to  scale as quickly as a Developer in that realm
• 29:00 - 29:30 there. So, the benefit as I said is that you're  able to absorb more shocks because you're able to   have I guess a Developer margin and a Builder's  margin. And that also depends how you buy,   right? Like this all comes back to how you  buy. Traditionally of course, you're going   to have Builders margin and the Developers  margin but the downside is that you have   to spend a lot of time to build the operations  in that construction particularly in New South
• 29:30 - 30:00 Wales right now. The last four years ago, the  state government made a renting generation   Compliance Construction overhaul in the class  2 which is the apartment, the apartment space.   So, right now in construction and I think I've  had it discussed this on a few other podcasts   with a few other, I think Peter Esho and Mark Bouris. I think I spoke to him about   this particular issue is that the regulatory  burden right now in construction has created
• 30:00 - 30:30 an environment where Builders that are just  Traditional Builders have just taken a backward   step and they're like, we're too old to have to  learn all these new systems, to learn all these   new ways of you know all this compliance and  all this, and it's resulted in an industry that   is under that is not not capable of delivering  what the government's I guess ambitious target   is. But longwinded response to your original  question, definitely an advantage but also   has it downsides. Yeah. So I guess, the summary  side of that is the time and effort to actually
• 30:30 - 31:00 run and also the I guess the financial resources  to keep the construction arm alive are stopping   the development arm from scaling. Correct. It's  a live beast in itself, right? It requires site   supervisor, site foreman, you know contract admin. That's a fully fledged business in its own. And   when it's sole focus and purpose is to is to build  just for the development arm, all of a sudden your   your development decisions and your acquisition  decisions are being influenced by your building
• 31:00 - 31:30 a pipeline because you don't want to you know you  need to keep the business running. You need to   keep the boys employed. And so, that's where the  disadvantage becomes is like all of a sudden you   know when I'm competing say with someone like Rob  negotiating on a site, I'm maybe thinking a bit   more shorter time because I've got you know 6 to  12 months that I've got to fill a pipeline, where   for you, you know you're probably like there's  10-20 other of these, like if this doesn't come
• 31:30 - 32:00 to fruition, you know who cares. And so, they say  you know in negotiation, he who's more desperate,   loses or something like that. So, that's where  the downside is. I could see times where you   have to take on a job in order to keep the  guys constructed and other times where you   don't want to take on a job because the boys are  flat out and they just that correct. They don't   have the bandwidth and so you don't want the  holding costs. Correct. But the benefit, there   is that you can potentially add value through  a DA and potentially flick, right? Or you can,
• 32:00 - 32:30 there's many exits at that point in time. And  so, I think the bigger downside is that now not   everything stacks up and so, it's more difficult  to I guess put projects in your pipeline that are   profitable that are not just projects that you  can put on your website and say this is what I'm   doing that they are actually profitable. If you were to you know get a Builder at  an arms length contract, if you were to get you  know Designers at arms length. So, it's it's
• 32:30 - 33:00 not as I guess as exciting, not exciting I guess,  it's not as good as people may think. Yeah. And   mate, with all the deals that you've constructed,  I guess in that timeline, so, Lanevick as an organisation's been I guess running for  about 8 years. That's right. I guess with dad   and his industry experience that's  30 plus. But just under your helm,
• 33:00 - 33:30 what's been your proudest moment? So, definitely  completing the 24 apartments. It was a culmination   and a buildup of 4 to 5 years. It was everything.  My sole goals and focus at the time was just to   complete this project, and it was getting to  the top or not I guess the top in my world   at that time and completing this project.  When we completed construction and we had   simultaneously settled on the apartment  and just sort of, looking you know at
• 33:30 - 34:00 my father and just looking at ourselves and  looking in the mirror, it was almost this   moment of like it was like relief but it was  it wasn't what I thought it would be. It was   almost like this sad moment. It was like this is  what I've been doing for 4 or 5 years you know,   like we got here. It's almost like it's a weird,  it's weird to put it in words but it was funny,
• 34:00 - 34:30 like what should have been the most proudest  moment which in hindsight is started this period   of deep deep I guess wouldn't call it depression  but a real downside of like, okay, what do I   do next? Like what do I you know it's almost I  guess you get to retirement and it's like, okay, what's the next thing? Like, what like there  was no you know, there was no thought other   than we need to just complete this. We need to  complete this. We need to complete this. We need   to complete this. And it was almost we got there  and it was as I said just did what put in words.
• 34:30 - 35:00 So, and I guess, for me, personally when I  drive past project number one, I have the same   pretty similar feelings. Yeah. You drive,  for me, it's on a regular driving route that   I go past all the time so it's a.. Likewise,  likewise, likewise. So, I go to the gym and I,   well I don't need to go that route but I  take that street to always drive past because   it's just like, oh I just wonder you know how it's looking and you know what's going
• 35:00 - 35:30 on there, and it's just it's sentimental. It is  sentimental when you look at it because it's just   really I guess personal like in your.. it's your  story. It's your story for 5-6 years you know. So,   it's I guess that's the great thing of development  is that you can see a tangible I guess statue sort   to speak of you know of what you've done. Yeah.  And I guess, we were chatting I guess before
• 35:30 - 36:00 coming on air, it's not just Property Development  that you're doing but also personal development I   guess. And you touched on there, at the end of  that project you kind of went well, now what? Correct. What have you done I guess in and around  your personal development journey, mate? Yeah.  So, it's a good point. I had to look  introspectively. I had to really look,   you know deep down in myself and sort of ask  myself those questions of you know where do
• 36:00 - 36:30 I want to go in my life? What do I actually  want to do? What does that look like? What   does that smell like? What is that? And  it sort of I'd always been involved in   personal development because it was honestly  the personal development that helped me or   that enabled me to persevere through those  really dark times from 18. I think I told   you I was introduced to I think Jim Rohn  at 18, and you know the Robert Kiyosaki,  you know Tony Robbins and we were able to  absorb you know the learnings and teachings   of these you know very you know incredible  people and that helped me persevere. But then,
• 36:30 - 37:00 when I got to the stage where we had sort of  quote-unquote got there, it was a different   type of personal development. And it was this  process of introspection, looking within and   asking myself, where do I actually want to go? What do I want to do? Where do I you know where   do I want to live? How do I?.. What's my lifestyle  look like? What's my you know what do I want to   give back? What I want, what do I want to be  known for? So, all these questions started and
• 37:00 - 37:30 I think over the next 6 months, I started to  you know work with you, know a couple of life   coaches at the same time as well worked with like a really made a good focus on looking into   what others did you know, what did others  do when they sort of you know got to that process where they almost lost themselves, and  personal development I would say is as one of my   most favorite books. It's a James Allen book. It's  called "As a man think of." He says, you know,
• 37:30 - 38:00 the circumstances that you have around you are a  result of your thoughts from you know 6 months,   12 months, 18 months ago. Literally, where we  are today is a direct result of your thoughts.   And your thoughts start from that little thought,  when you're you know the alarm's going off and you   need to get up and you're like I'm tired but like  I need to.. You are completely accountable and   responsible for where you are in your life. And it's simple as that. And although, a lot of things
• 38:00 - 38:30 that happen may not be your fault, they're your  responsibility to make sure that you get over   them. And so, I think taking accountability and  really understanding that you are flying your   plane, you are you know in the.. you're in the  front seat. If you want to go left, you can go   left. You want to go right, you can go right. Do  not blame others. Do not look at the economy. Do   not look at you know your friend down the road.  Do not look who cares. Who cares about that?
• 38:30 - 39:00 Just look at yourself. Compare yourself  to yourself and just beat yourself. Keep   beating yourself. That was one of the.. I  think I was a very you know very naturally   being very competitive. I would compare  myself to you know what that guy was doing,   what that person was doing, and all these you know   social media and whatnot. And it was  unrealistic, right? And it wasn't fair,  right? Like my 5-year journey, I shouldn't be  comparing that against someone's 20-year journey. And so, I realised that this game is for  me and I want to and I should be competing
• 39:00 - 39:30 against myself. And my criteria became I had  to be better than my 12-month self every year on year on year again. That became, I almost  forgot I almost left everything and I became   focused on how can I beat myself.  Very motivational inspiring, mate. So,   thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it. Along your journey though, I guess you touched on  the fact I guess prior to our coming on air that
• 39:30 - 40:00 it wasn't all beer and skittles, mate.  You, I guess, while you were going  through I guess coming through the Covid  side of things and trying to help dad   through his project and that sort of thing.  At one point, you pretty much got down to zero bank. Yeah. It was literally underwater. As I said, I think I remember I was working
• 40:00 - 40:30 regionally and I pulled up at a Petrol station  and filled up fuel, and I remember going to tap   my card and it declined once, and then picked up  the other card tapped it and it declined as well. I was like coz normally you know had two accounts  and looked at my bank account, I was like, this is  you know, there was I think, there was an ATO payment or something that had been taken out. And I was looking at the gentleman there and  I was looking down. I'm like, it was the first
• 40:30 - 41:00 time in my life where I was like to myself like,  "what the hell am I going to do?" Like you know,   like I'm not going to run away and I'm not going  to. I'm like, "what the hell am I going to do?"   And so, I went back to my car and I scavenged  I think like $50 or it was half of what I was  earning. And I literally told  the general, I'm like, look,   here's my license, take my details, like you  know like I honestly for some reason don't   have this here but you know just take  my details. And, but the point is that,
• 41:00 - 41:30 it was the first time where I sort of asked  myself where I questioned myself, I was like,   am I doing the right thing? Like the journey  that I'm going on like, is this gonna.. not   is it going to be worth it but I'm like is  this part like is this normal? Like, is this   like when you're by yourself and you're alone  not lonely but I guess when you're in a quest   to really you know achieve an outcome, you're  almost on this journey by yourself. And so, you
• 41:30 - 42:00 don't have anyone to sort of speak to at that  time that can understand you or that can. And so,  I really question myself. I really question myself of is this you know is this   the right path and so. Definitely, there's.. it's  a hole you know there's a hole dark world of I   guess you know thoughts and emotions and feelings  and you know stories made of people you know.   You know not doing right I guess by you or  you sort of putting yourself in positions
• 42:00 - 42:30 to be taken advantage of and there's  a whole multitude of stories and so,   I think the way that I look at it is that these  are the learnings that are required for you to   build the skin. That's required to deliver the  outcome that you want to set out to achieve.   And so, it's part of the journey. It's part of  the journey. Just take it on, learn from it.  There's no issue making a mistake. Just don't  make the same mistake twice. Yeah. That's my   mantra. And so, I don't you know originally  on because I was so competitive. I'll be like,
• 42:30 - 43:00 how did he you know how did I lose  or how did I?.. Now it's like,   it's okay if you made the mistake, great! Do not  **** make that mistake again. Do not make that,   if you make that again then you can  be angry at yourself. And so, that's definitely to answer your question.  There's very dark times. There's it's not..  It's very difficult in those early stages. And  hence, self-belief in yourself. Correct. And
• 43:00 - 43:30 your ability, the strength in to  persevere and that sort of thing is super important. Rob, mate, it's an  absolute.. It's a prerequisite you know,   resilience. It's a prerequisite in  this game. Resilience, adaptability,   resourcefulness. It's just a prerequisite. Like, if you're not there, life will life will   force experiences on you to get you there. And  if you do not persevere through it, you won't get   there. You won't get there. So, you know I think  you know the world we live in has a great way of
• 43:30 - 44:00 bringing upon you experiences that are going  to get you to where you want to go if you   truly believe that you want to get there. So,  I think it's a just get through it. The other   side you know the grass is greener, I guess  on the other side but yeah, particularly,   it's.. there are some very dark times. Thank you, mate. So, I guess with that mate,   really good segway into probably my final  question here. What are the biggest lessons
• 44:00 - 44:30 that you would like to impart on our audience? Starting out, if they've not done their very   first deal. If they're thinking is Property  Development the thing for them. Perhaps,   they're in their first deal and they're halfway  through and struggling. What motivation can you   give them to get through? Yeah. Great  question! And I spoke to you I think   about this backstage. I think, the one key  takeaway is mentors. It's just invaluable.
• 44:30 - 45:00 It is invaluable what you can get from  a mentor's experience. A mentor that's   been and done this 10 years or 10, 20, 30 years  and you can literally pay a monetary fee or.. And this is not an advertisement. It's just  funny because you know you have a Property   Development Network and whatnot but it is  just you know unparalleled the value that   you get back from a mentor. And for me,  that was my father early on, right? How   are you able to jump into 24 apartments? You know you're a first, you're a newbie,
• 45:00 - 45:30 you're this, you're that. Leveraging on the  experience of the mentor put me in a position   where I was able to ask the questions and  position myself in a way that I was able   to be apprehensive of the challenges that were  going to come up as they were coming up and come   up with the solutions to get there. So, mentors  is absolutely invaluable. And the second thing, I   think is confidence you know and backing yourself.  I think, particularly when you're starting out,
• 45:30 - 46:00 you're always double checking, triple checking  you know paralysis over analysis. I think,   there's a point where you have to understand  and you're like I may not have every question   mark tip, but if I do not like the more I  delay myself jumping into this first deal,   the longer I'm going to be delaying the  learnings and the teachings that I'm going   to naturally learn from any first deal. You are  never ever.. particularly in the first deal,   you are never ever going to be able to  have every single base cover. If you were,
• 46:00 - 46:30 then you'd be an experienced Developer. So, if  the number you know if it looks right and I guess   you've done your obviously your high level DD and it's not you're not just buying a you know a site   that has a tip underneath it, or something  like that like. But if it you know if the   numbers are right and you know the site feels  right, just get into it. Just get into it. You will find a way. You will find a way and you  will be so much better off of doing a deal where
• 46:30 - 47:00 you only made say 15%. Right? But compare that  to the to the person that didn't do the deal   and waited another two years and then made 25%  on his deal, but you're two years ahead of the   journey now. By the time that gentleman gets  to that 25%, you're doing now deals that are   25- 30% because your experience is. So I think,  throw yourself in to start the skill building.   The skills is what you want. You don't.. the money  is an outcome of that site but the skills is what
• 47:00 - 47:30 pays you back. Does that skills pay the bills  or it is so true that the skills that you that   you're going to acquire from just starting that  deal, the relationships you're going to get,   the you know the network you're going to create,  you know you're only going to solve these problems   when they're.. when your money's on the line  and when you're you know you're stuck in the   deal. And so, that's why I would say, back  yourself, just back yourself, get in there   and just you know just start. Just start. So,  I agree with both of those wholeheartedly,
• 47:30 - 48:00 mate. The one thing that I would say is back  yourself with a mentor sitting over so you're not not jumping. That's why mentor was number  one. Mentor was number one. And then,   the second was back yourself. Yeah,  I guess because sometimes we cannot   know what we don't know when we get into a deal.  So, really important that you've got someone else   sanity checking your deal. Steve, mate, it has  been amazing with you sharing your journey. I   greatly appreciate you doing that and looking  forward to catching up with you personally,
• 48:00 - 48:30 I guess and sharing a few war stories over a  beverage or two, mate. No, I appreciate it,   Rob. And as I said, I really hope the audience  can you know take value away from that. And again,   just touching on that last point, just get into  it you know, get into it you know there's never   going to be a perfect time. Just start. Yeah, very  good. With that said mate, just for everyone else   out there who's watching, not only do we run these  Sunday Sessions and share these sorts of stories,
• 48:30 - 49:00 but we also run events all the way around the  country. We run them physical and virtual so,   you can turn up physically in Brisbane,  Sydney, Melbourne or Adelaide. And you can hear   real stories of real deals where people just  like Steve, are actually sharing their journey.  Plus, you're getting to hear from Industry Experts  and also share in your masterminding and share   your problems and your issues and challenges  as you go. So, if you're wanting to see us,   we would love to see you at one of those upcoming  events. Steve, it's been an absolute pleasure,
• 49:00 - 49:30 mate, and we'll see you on the flip  side. Thanks, Rob! See you guys. Bye! [Music]