The Burning Issue: The DNA of Human Rights

Summary

Highlights

• The talk dismantles the notion that human rights are a Western construct, stressing their universal appeal 🌐.
• Highlighting the bravery of individuals worldwide who fight for rights against oppressive regimes ⚔️.
• The perils of using human rights as a facade for political agendas by powerful nations 🕵️.
• A profound commitment to justice and dignity fuels those in the human rights movements 🌟.
• Storytelling of personal experiences provides a poignant reminder of the stakes involved in human rights advocacy 🔍.

Key Takeaways

• Human rights stem beyond Western ideology, they are universal and inherent 🌍.
• Solidarity and courage are crucial in the fight for human dignity and rights 🤝.
• Human rights activism often involves personal risk and profound sacrifices 🦸.
• The abuse of human rights rhetoric by powerful entities needs constant vigilance ⚠️.
• An innate drive to assist others forms the core DNA of human rights 🧬.

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 03:00: Introduction to Human Rights Violations In the chapter titled 'Introduction to Human Rights Violations', the narrative unfolds with a harrowing depiction of unexpected and severe human rights abuses occurring in Arabic lands. The speech captures the disbelief and shock regarding the occurrence of such events in the region. It reveals a grim reality where individuals call out for justice for their people amidst growing fears for personal safety. The speaker shares an ominous progression of events leading up to threats on their life. In a vivid account, young girls are described as being forcibly taken to secret detention centers where they face brutal violence, including rape and physical assaults, while perpetrators act with chaotic frenzy. The chapter sets a dark tone, highlighting the urgent need for justice and solidarity against these violations.
• 03:00 - 09:00: The Nature of Human Rights The chapter explores the inherent nature of human rights through a real-life scenario where individuals are instinctively driven to help others in times of crisis. Despite the natural instinct for self-preservation, the narrative demonstrates a stronger, overriding drive in humans to aid others, illustrating a fundamental aspect of human rights. The setting described is in the vicinity of a dangerous event, where a person recounts being very close to the point of explosion yet observing people's reactions driven by empathy and the protective nature of humanity. The chapter culminates in a reference to a lecture by Professor Conic Gears, indicating a broader discussion on the subjects of human rights and communal responsibility.
• 09:00 - 15:00: The Universality of Human Rights The chapter 'The Universality of Human Rights' discusses the widespread acceptance and recognition of human rights across diverse cultures and nations. Though the transcript provided only contains applause and music noise, typically such a chapter would explore the historical evolution, legal frameworks, and philosophical underpinnings that underscore the universal applicability of human rights. Moreover, it would likely address the challenges and criticisms related to enforcing these rights globally, acknowledging cultural differences while emphasizing common human values. Such discussions are crucial in academic settings where diverse perspectives contribute to a deeper understanding of human rights issues.
• 15:00 - 19:00: Historical Perspectives on Human Rights The chapter titled 'Historical Perspectives on Human Rights' seems to delve into traditional and contemporary perspectives on human rights, possibly drawing an analogy with the structure of DNA as 'the double helix of Human Rights'. The reference to Watson and Crick suggests an exploration of foundational or revolutionary ideas in human rights, akin to their role in discovering the DNA structure. It also briefly touches upon the academic perspectives and possibly criticizes the conventional view that only those with formal academic credentials can contribute meaningfully to human rights discourse.
• 19:00 - 23:00: The Role of Democracy and Revolution The chapter titled 'The Role of Democracy and Revolution' explores the theme of human rights within a society engaged with varying degrees of sociability and interaction. It reflects on the notion of human rights, emphasizing the need to understand and derive meaning from this fundamental concept. The chapter encourages readers to contemplate and discuss which human right they find most essential, fostering an environment where personal reflections and discussions contribute to a deeper understanding of democratic values and revolutionary change.
• 23:00 - 31:00: The Problem of Torture and Abuse This chapter delves into the complex issue of torture and abuse, highlighting the irony in how fundamental human rights such as the right to life, freedom of speech, expression, belief, and education are often overlooked or undermined. The transcript presents a scene that resembles an auction, with participants shouting bids for various human rights, indicating the competitive and selective nature in addressing these rights. There's an underlying critique of self-interest in the advocacy for rights, with a specific anecdote reflecting how education has been approached historically as a means for self-improvement or economic benefit, rather than as a universal right.
• 31:00 - 39:00: Personal Stories of Human Rights Abuses This chapter, titled "Personal Stories of Human Rights Abuses," lightly discusses the societal and financial challenges of expanding education as a fundamental human right. The speaker employs humor to point out the unrealistic expectations on educational funding while questioning a supposed violator of human rights about the limitations of education to the age of 18. The dialogue also touches on the value of freedom of expression, albeit in a context that hints at a frustration with the lack of concrete solutions to funding these rights.
• 39:00 - 45:00: Solidarity and the Human Spirit The chapter titled 'Solidarity and the Human Spirit' delves into the complex subject of freedom of expression. It begins with a question posed by someone in the audience, seeking clarity on the motivations behind caring about freedom of speech. The discussion is quickly anchored to a real-world example involving the Chinese artist Ai Weiwei, used to illustrate how some governments, like China's, are retracting individual freedoms. The debate then pivots to explore the limits and responsibilities associated with freedom of expression. Hypothetical scenarios are presented, such as the defense of someone engaging in an anti-semitic tirade or the implications of shouting 'fire' in a crowded space, to examine how far the protection of free speech should extend. This chapter fundamentally questions the boundaries and ethical considerations linked to the principle of free expression, weighing the value of individual rights against collective safety and moral responsibility.
• 45:00 - 48:00: Concluding Remarks on Human Rights The chapter delves into the philosophical debates surrounding human rights. It begins with a rhetorical question about whether one would sacrifice their life for absolute human rights, hinting at the complexities and personal boundaries individuals might have regarding this issue. The discussion shifts to the concept of a social contract, implying that the validity of human rights relies on societal agreements rather than being absolute. The conversation portrays the 'Big Brother' notion as a metaphor for authoritative power that dictates these rights. The speaker continues by engaging the audience in an exercise to guess the number of human rights that exist, highlighting the ambiguity and subjective nature of what constitutes human rights. This exercise underscores the point that human rights might not be as clear-cut or universally agreed upon as one might think, leaving room for personal interpretation and debate.

The Burning Issue: The DNA of Human Rights Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] I never expected that this would happen in the Arabic lands it really was a dream it is the solidarity of the takers they say I want Justice now for my people as time were're going I think the the the the next uh step was uh to kill me young girls been dragged off to a detention private detention secret Detention Center smashed around brutally raped bitten and and the men are in a frenzy
• 00:30 - 01:00 when they're doing this I sat just to the the rear of the first Carriage what turned out to be about probably 8 ft away from where the bone went off there is that instinct to run away and to save yourself but at the same time it seems much stronger drive for people to override that and to go to the help of other people ladies and Gentlemen please give a warm welcome to Professor conic gears
• 01:00 - 01:30 [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] you know an academic spots a bandwagon
• 01:30 - 02:00 and they jump on and DNA is fashionable explains everything so here I am declaring that I can present you the double helix of Human Rights Watson Crick gey University people are a little bit sniffy I don't know if you knew this about human rights because it involves people doing things who are not PhD students and that's actually quite
• 02:00 - 02:30 anxious making for us we weren't the most sociable people in school we're not used to interaction that's why we lurk in the Ivory Tower sharing moments of Silence with each other human rights surely it's kind of simple you don't need to elaborate anything special about it well today is about working out what it means and trying to get to the bottom of it so let's have a think about what human right really matters to you the most basic the most fundamental let's have some hands up it's a there's a hand
• 02:30 - 03:00 up yes the right to life the right to life we have in the front here we have a bid from the lady in the middle freedom of speech freedom of speech do we have any more do we have any more you have on the front do you freedom of speech freedom of expression we have a gentleman up there freedom of belief freedom of belief this gentleman here education education education sir are you educated I used to teach myself oh I see so it's simply self-interest isn't it it it's it's give us a job it's the right to work
• 03:00 - 03:30 how how much how much uh would you would you say first level primary school education yes right through to 18 I think right why stop at 18 sir you violator of Human Rights what about the university tolerate those I think phds yes excellent you see it's expanding where are we going to get the money for this uh well that's that is a burning issue isn't it well when we haven't a clue what the answer is we say that's a burning issue thank you thank you the freedom of expression there's a fre of expression
• 03:30 - 04:00 guy right in the front row why why why do you care about freedom of expression um well I'm thinking in particular of the Chinese artist IA way uh and how China seems to be taking Freedom's back and how far would you go with freedom of expression if I began now to engage in an hysterical anti-semitic rant would you defend me and say there he is right to free speech I'm going to protect him I would you would and supposing somebody were to shout fire right behind you and everybody tumbled over you and you were being destroyed in the rush to get out you and your dying breath even though
• 04:00 - 04:30 there was Nor fire would say good I die in defense of absolute human rights would you I might not go that far but you might not go that far the all exception social contract that allows government and everything else all right so the rights only count if something called Big Brother the social contract besides a thank you very much now how many human rights do you think we have how many how many do we have five 10 any bids 20 100
• 04:30 - 05:00 55,000 how can we tell what a human right is have you thought about that and uh can you have them without enjoying them uh did Stone AG man have a right to Social Security because the right to Social Security is in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights it's an absolute inalienable it's there since the start of time well would have made a difference
• 05:00 - 05:30 facilitated the invention of the wheel and are human rights true are they there or are they what we decide are true we're going to travel to the Future through trying to understand where we are the present and we get to that through better understanding the past that's our menu
• 05:30 - 06:00 TV people are very keen on props so we're going to get to know this little doll because it represents layers of stuff and we're going to work through to
• 06:00 - 06:30 the very core of this doll in our search for what it really means to talk about human rights and we're going to encounter staging psts which are valuable and important but we're also going to encounter false friends those who would distorted for their own interest so we have to also discount andove remove the false
• 06:30 - 07:00 friends that lur within this doll let's have a look at this the idea of Human Rights just came up to my mind when I when I passed a very bad experience after the war when I lost some of my members in my family when I lost friends I started to understand what does a human right mean
• 07:00 - 07:30 when you say that you began to understand what human rights mean what do human rights mean to you human rights are not that these things that given to you these are things that no one can take from you it's just kind of something inherit in every human being everyone should have these human rights we are all equal we are born free no one has priority because of his color because of his religion because of his of anything no discrimination it is an
• 07:30 - 08:00 idea which is inherited not everybody agrees with what we just heard so let's come to an encounter the first of our I would say false layers but it's for you to reflect on and think about and the argument goes something like this human rights is a western idea nothing to do with the rest of the world
• 08:00 - 08:30 it's a kind of cultural accessory to a particular place at a particular time and therefore it's irrelevant now what I reject is the idea that we are the only people in the show and I think of myself here as a Westerner who actually care about human rights and I remind myself of David Kad the Ugandan gay rights
• 08:30 - 09:00 campaigner brutally murdered for his activism recently he didn't do that because he learned in some Western manual and I think too of Pakistan poor bited Pakistan the lawyers rallied to protect their chief justice didn't do that because they had all gone to some Western College and been brainwashed in beliefs rooted in the rule of law how but think most of all of
• 09:00 - 09:30 Tunis think of Cairo Egypt think of what's going on in Libya think of Bahrain don't just think of the successes think of the people who might be losing think of Syria and you see people who are not mimicking their Western betters but using the language of Human Rights or a kind of Human Rights language to
• 09:30 - 10:00 articulate something which is in them and to deny it is to reject their humanity and also and now we have khud again who's at lsse and MSE in human rights he an architect who became a human engaged in human rights and he's from Gaza in Palestine uh this is what khut has to say on this topic in particular when you see Tunis Cairo Bahrain Libya more recently and even
• 10:00 - 10:30 Syria and other places how do you respond to that what is the effect of it on you I would like to talk about as Arabic citizen it really was a dream I never expected that this would happen in the Arabic lands because as I mentioned before it is the culture we just we have to be silent because we used to be silent the silence is the culture in the Arabic lands so Uprising and
• 10:30 - 11:00 the all of these conflicts in the Arabic lands gave me a good a good impression a good a good area a good perspective for a good future I started to be optimistic and I hope that it will be just like um infection to the to to distribute the infection to the other lands around and to the neighbors and specifically in Palestine an infection of human dignity exactly many of the protesters say that these protests are exactly about human dignity exactly yes because actually um
• 11:00 - 11:30 the most and the the most important motivation for defending the human rights is to feel that you are losing your respect and losing your dignity and that was actually I think that was the only reason for the apprising in the in in the Egyptian lands because it's it was a matter of dignity because when someone just coming and preach you right and when degrading your dignity I think you will you will be something else there is a power and energy inside each
• 11:30 - 12:00 one of us and just you need just you need any anything just to to to to express about this about this power and energy inside you yes it is a matter of dignity and it's a matter of respect to your humanity and khud is just here in the front row so I think with the help of Hud and
• 12:00 - 12:30 uh others I think we can uh send uh human rights this is another problem human rights as a western construct into the bin but we can recover from what we've just seen what I'd say are a couple of layers of truth about uh human rights one a belief in democracy we mustn't let the idea of democracy to
• 12:30 - 13:00 be taken over by imperialists democracy is a fantastic idea uh but to make democracy work you need dignity and one of the things that came through from those people in the Arab countries in Pakistan and David K is a determination to be themselves and not to allow authority to
• 13:00 - 13:30 destroy them even if it meant seeming to destroy them but we need to think a little bit as I said we would about the past we've got four stages in history and uh let's say through some amazing Coincidence of alphabetical press they all begin with R what do you think our first stage is begins with R start of Human
• 13:30 - 14:00 Rights any bids Rodeo no religion now we have the idea of right and wrong rooted in religion and sometime in the past 16th 15th century beginning with religious people we begin to develop the notion of subjective right it's not only that you
• 14:00 - 14:30 have a right out there you have a right in here a right to be treated as a human and that idea grows within religious cultures and is of course then a central idea in the enlightenment when we construct a secular ethic to substitute for the religious one in which we had no longer any confidence no longer taking our instructions from God we take our instructions from ourselves but
• 14:30 - 15:00 interestingly the instructions turn out to be quite similar Emanuel K swats away in the little village he was in never leaving it and comes up with after years and years of active citation The Sermon on the Mount good man Emanuel the second R guns violence human rights has grown out
• 15:00 - 15:30 of Revolution there are two kinds freedom from external oppression the right to self-determination and that self is not you or me it is a people and it's a very valuable part of world history because it's given bits of the world that were dominated and ex whose assets were expropriated a language with which to resist that expropriation there's a different kind of Revolution it's Revolution against those who were inside against your own
• 15:30 - 16:00 plundering kleptocracy and of course the French led the way on that with 1789 and the Declaration of the rights of man and off the citizen uh the South Africans most recently have demonstrated that to great effect and Egypt appears to be on the same track I say appears in Libya I say appears because one has to wait to see what happens as a result of these great changes is it
• 16:00 - 16:30 Revolution or is it reorganization our third R basically is there because I had to get another R in or they would have shouted at me and it's sort of implausible reconstruction of humanity I know I know I know Rodeo is more likely you would say but I'm actually getting at something quite important which is the way in the 19th
• 16:30 - 17:00 century we got familiar with the idea that a slave could not conceivably be treated in the way that slaves had hitherto been treated that there was something about a person who was owned by another person that was intensely morally objectionable that's a huge moral Advance which is reconstructing the human because it's getting us and this is a key point about human rights as far as I'm concerned to see the human in
• 17:00 - 17:30 humans generally and not specifically at the same time in the 19th century as a result of reactions to the horrors of the wars in the 1850s and in particular the American Civil War there grew an idea of a code of good behavior in a war so your enemy who is surrendering is to be treated as a fallen comrade and the fourth is easier rights law rights law
• 17:30 - 18:00 and in particular the universal Declaration of Human Rights these historical layers show us a consistent theme which I will think of as a truthful layer in our subject and that is the layer which promotes courage and compassion for all of humanity a vision
• 18:00 - 18:30 of humanity which is all-encompassing which is what I think human rights is about now I want to introduce a not of caution because there are downsides to this subject and I have an ideal person to talk about this with and he's a friend of mine who works at Burke College University of London professor costus disis and custus is an human rights
• 18:30 - 19:00 Enthusiast for sure but he's from a tradition which is pretty skeptical of imperialism and pretty anxious about self- congratulation and before we settle into an overoptimistic view that we are the elect living this moral life as human rights people we need to hear what costus dzus has to say
• 19:00 - 19:30 what do human rights mean to you human rights today is the manifestation of the human urge to resist public and private domination and exploitation when people feel that there is Injustice in the world that the way that political power acts is wrong then human rights comes into operation where does this set of words come from why human rights that's in excellent an excellent question and I
• 19:30 - 20:00 think there's quite a lot of confusion around the term human rights because they become so well encompassing for us here in the north human rights are about protecting a sphere a sphere of private interest and private activity you know around ourselves and keeping people out so that will appear in a number of different guyses as privacy as free speech and so on for people in the South and for the underprivileged and and the poor and those who have been persecuted here in the North human rights is precisely a way through which they can
• 20:00 - 20:30 fight for a minimum recognition of their humanity and also for a minimum recognition that a law without social justice is like a body without a soul we would have any of these social and economic rights without struggle they were not just given away you know as gifts by the powerful it's a case then of winning the struggle the that kind of relationship has changed because human rights uh have been to a certain extent
• 20:30 - 21:00 hijacked by governments particularly the major parts in the Western World which use them in order to impose their own ways of social and political arrangement to the rest of the world under that rather fake claim of humanitarian intervention the use of human rights in order to go to Iraq or Afghanistan is for me the greatest contradiction in terms we are killing humans in order to save Humanity
• 21:00 - 21:30 I think we need to acknowledge something quite challenging all powerfully emancipatory ideas get sucked into a Vortex of power which seeks not to remove them but to twist their meaning to suit the powerful have a look at this in conformity with the interest of the people the citizens are guaranteed
• 21:30 - 22:00 by law freedom of speech freedom of the press freedom of assembly including the holding of mass meetings freedom of Street processions and demonstrations any bids on which country that is oh you're good LS people you smell a rat what did I hear over here Syria Syria could be Syria could stand for Syria any other guesses Burma Burma is pretty close the Constitution I remember the Ambassador from the Soviet Union so impressing me with when he came to University in Dublin that I practically became not so much a communist as a
• 22:00 - 22:30 citizen of the Soviet Empire this is the Soviet achievement or the next one every citizen shall have the right to freedom of thought and of conscience and to freely profess any religion every citizen shall have the right freely to take part in political social class and mass organizations Etc the state shall provide necessary assistance let's give you a bit of a hint necessary assist to the people to enable them to ah we're spotting a rat there the stat helping you to enjoy your rights well this sir
• 22:30 - 23:00 say it again you call it Burma they call it Myanmar oh we're Democratic we have elections we don't let anybody we don't like stand but we have elections give us the money give us the money and then we have some Curious humanitarians it is impossible to Stand By and Watch Millions belonging to a great and ancient civilized people be denied rights by their government I have determined therefore lucky then
• 23:00 - 23:30 to place the help of our country at the service of these millions well any bids you'll have heard of this leader he was a distinguished author in the 1920s yes Adolf Hitler no wonder custus is a little bit anxious about Grand interventions because we've had recent examples of course but we have this example and it's a reminder to us of the risk in
• 23:30 - 24:00 translating our moral certainty into murder into murder we need to encounter a new layer of falsity it works like this you say yeah human rights is part of our culture you know we do human rights we do democracy and we do the rule of law the Wii is the West you know whatever you
• 24:00 - 24:30 call the West capital W Global North or whatever that's stage one stage two we are lovely but we are so lovely we are letting a whole lot of people in who are not lovely at all and they are carrying suitcases with weapons of mass destruction and they appear to have devoted their lives to our destruction and we let them in there are special bits at the airport which go people who
• 24:30 - 25:00 want to kill us no Visa needed the ticking Time Bomb the ticking Time Bomb is a well-known example of a situation where you know somebody has information which can save thousands of lives and the only way you can get that information out of them is by torture and the big ethical question is whether you torture well oama Bin Laden there's a guy in guantan he knows where oama is or he can get you to oama oama Bin Laden's the leader of this terrible organization you think and you will torture and that's been an argument that
• 25:00 - 25:30 has percolated to the surface my point is that is an argument that is sometimes embraced by people who see themselves as human rights people because it's defending our culture defending our values and then the other tactic of course is to say you don't do torture you do coercive interrogation or you could go for authorized torture via the wonderful legal system of which
• 25:30 - 26:00 we are so proud argued for by many distinguished human rights professors the judicial warrants system so I'm going to enter into a little fairy story here with you about judicial warrants we need a torture victim volunteer uh we need one and I fortunately have prepared one earlier so can we have can we have a torture victim now the torture victim comes over here can you can you put your handcuffs on please the torture victim has a
• 26:00 - 26:30 lawyer but the lawyer never talks to the torture victim the lawyer is completely uninterested in the torture Victim Because the lawyer of course is a servant of the court and the lawyer's duty is to put the case as to why there should be torture on behalf of the torture victim but without taking instructions from the torture Victim Because of of course National Security of course overseeing the whole process the judge
• 26:30 - 27:00 and to complete the picture of human rights safeguards you'd have the doctor and this is how it would go uh my Lord will be aware of the evidence which has been given in private before my Lord that there has been uh strong suspicion that the uh suspect has been engaged in Acts of massive terrorist atrocity and is likely to continue to do so in the near future my Lord it would not be an exaggeration to say that the fate of London is at stake my Lord has seen the letter from
• 27:00 - 27:30 the Home Secretary which says and I quote the letter in its totality dear judge give us the warrant my Lord will be aware that for national security reasons it's not appropriate to go much further than that I see I see have we got the relevant Medical safeguards in place I would like the doctor to give direct evidence on that may I've been a doctor now for some
• 27:30 - 28:00 37 years and I've not been a particularly successful doctor so I've ended up working in the realm of National Security and I give an absolute Assurance I give an absolute Assurance my Lord that this person will almost certainly not die as a result of the procedure my Lord and then the judge pronounces judgment well the matter seems clear enough there is is a massive threat to the state the evidence is outstanding
• 28:00 - 28:30 and on the basis of the affidavit from the witness the Home Secretary the torture May proceed for a period of 2 days interspersed with occasional breaks biscuits shall be given with one cup of tea and a spoon of sugar the distinguished doctor of long experience will obey his hipocratico in ensuring the ongoing life of the suspect onto such time as she do break you are now led
• 28:30 - 29:00 away thank you can we give our torture victim around the door now that is what would happen in fact because if you create a structure for abuse and you allow for a formal set of safeguards which then are handed over to professionals you can be pretty sure
• 29:00 - 29:30 that the effect given the nature of the Personnel given the exigencies of the situation given the lack of any genuine political oversight given the power of the language of terrorism that very soon it'll become normal to get warrants as and when that's been our experience when it's come to the extension of powers in the field of terrorism in every other way and I don't see why it wouldn't be here so what we have is a very dangerous false friend and the
• 29:30 - 30:00 very dangerous false friend is the whole idea of necessary evil we risk our culture if we collude in the idea that our culture is so valuable that we can afford to depart from it in order to secure it and so rigorously into the bin is this idea that human rights can
• 30:00 - 30:30 underpin violations of human rights on the front line the reality of torture and the ongoing concern we have about torture is a million miles away from University seminar rooms which hypothesize about ticking time bombs
• 30:30 - 31:00 uh family member on that time uh she was a humanitarian lawyer she made a report uh about the genocide in the east of Congo unfortunately in that report she cited people in the government and then from that time persecution began one week later she went out of the country and then two weeks later I was
• 31:00 - 31:30 arrested and there began the torture before September 11th there was a general consensus around the world that torture was an abor practice that it was never permissible and governments sought to deny and to conceal cases where they engaged in torture and after September 11th we began to see uh led by Western governments an effort to suggest
• 31:30 - 32:00 that there were circumstances in which torture was acceptable indeed uh circumstances in which torture was a moral obligation in order to obtain information that could be used to save lives uh during this nine months in the first three months I think um torture were all the time um I knew that when it 5:00 that I will be beaten up I will be put in such
• 32:00 - 32:30 condition that to in such a severe pain that I have to to answer questions uh which were put to me from uh government officials I see on on a regular basis people from all around the world who've been severely tortured uh in their own country uh which canect effect how they can interact with other people and
• 32:30 - 33:00 everyday aspects of their life difficulties with sleeping severe anxiety depression uh suicidal attempts shame and humiliation and a sense of powerlessness I think it's terrible in the sense that after 9/11 there's been this debate and actual actions of people being tortured in the west which I think is has undermined our values and people who have come from these countries are amazed that we have so easily given up the freedoms which we've thought so hardly for how long did did it last oh could
• 33:00 - 33:30 last 30 minutes 1 Hour 2 hour depending on my answer depending on my condition depending on many what do you think was going through their minds who pleasure Duty or buff human rights law makes clear that the best way to deal with uh the threat of terrorism um as other criminal
• 33:30 - 34:00 activity is through the criminal justice system policies are being pursued that have undermined human rights protection undermined the rule of law and indeed have undermined the reputation of Britain and other European countries around the world have made those countries appear to be hypocritical when they profess uh to stand for certain principles patients that have come here and they're saying well you know how dare the West talk to us about human
• 34:00 - 34:30 rights and how um torture is a bad thing when they're doing it themselves if it's no it's so necessary for their security then it's all right for us to do it in the beginning I had the sense that they didn't want to kill me they did want to put me in very very severe pain to extract what they want to know but as time were going I think the
• 34:30 - 35:00 the the the next uh step was uh to kill me yeah young girls been dragged off to a detention private deten secret Detention Center smashed around brutally raped bitten and and the men are in a frenzy when they're doing this and then you got another type that you know clients have talked about where in since they were in prison in Iran the guards were raping them on a fairly regular basis and the guards wanted them to love them wanted
• 35:00 - 35:30 that the women to actually say that they were enjoying this sort of thing and one occas one person to appease his religious sensibility got her to sign a Sig so that they temporally married while while he did these these sexual sexually violent acts so he felt he wasn't doing something wrong in terms of religion but forget about what he was doing to this woman some people say they're Against torture but they want to manage torture they might suggest for example doctors being
• 35:30 - 36:00 present to protect the victim from too much torture or they might be pushing for some kind of lawyers presence in the form of maybe a Judicial warrant is this to you a fair compromise between on the one hand the prohibition on torture and on the other hand the supposed concerns of those committed to National Security um well F first of all I think that the idea of judicialized illegal conduct um seems contradictory torture dehumanizes
• 36:00 - 36:30 it deases the torturer and and it also does the same to society uh and and and uh providing a a veneer of of of the rule of law um to to to what is um the most dehumanizing form of uh treatment um cannot serve to to to change its fundamental character what would you say or what
• 36:30 - 37:00 would you do if you bizarrely came across your torturer here in the United Kingdom at University maybe or just on the street I will I will just call Authority and report him and so you'd like him punished by the law not by you or a gang but by law exactly so you believe in law yes
• 37:00 - 37:30 Rafael's here we're we're beginning to kind of wind up you know we're diming a future that we have to resist a future in which casual abuses become the norm within the framework of a spuriously constructed democratic law how do we stop that we stop that by
• 37:30 - 38:00 having people like Dr Hopkins Ben Ward many many others and people like Rafael and people like khud because what we see is something pretty special which is an extraordinary sense which some of us share maybe to some extent but which drives us
• 38:00 - 38:30 as human rights people a sense of solidarity solidarity with the human race a commitment to a common project which is not one in which we distinguish people by their color by their gender by the size of their wallet by their nationality by their fort but which sees in
• 38:30 - 39:00 them Humanity it's part of the ways in which we have learned from religion and this takes us close to but not quite at where we end because we have this solidarity uh but we also have this awareness that it is not just to give it is the solidarity of the takers the brave people who do not wait for some generous person to come along and serve them up justice but who say I want
• 39:00 - 39:30 Justice now for my people that's a different kind of solidarity goals of dignity courage a commitment to democracy compassion and these are the building blocks that take us to the core of Human Rights but it's also about something in the human something which
• 39:30 - 40:00 something which is irrepressible about the human Spirit which is linked to that which drives that solidarity uh what you're going to see now is somebody who captures some of what I think is at the core of human rights in a way that not everybody would immediately assume is the case but let's see what suzan pel has to say [Music]
• 40:00 - 40:30 on the morning of the 7th of July I was doing work experience taken a day holiday to go and do work experience in the city for a job I ultimately got um and I was getting a circle line train and of course running late nearly got onto the second Carriage which was actually where the bomb went off I sat just to the the rear of the first Carriage what turned out to be
• 40:30 - 41:00 about probably 8 ft away from where the bone went off but luckily screened protected by the partition between the two carriages but at the same time very close so when the glass blew out and the doors blew through I was sort of in the thick of it I woke up in absolute you know Darkness I couldn't see I had so much debris on my eyes I had to sort of
• 41:00 - 41:30 scrape it off and open my eyes and still couldn't see cuz it was so dark and just black and and sweaty and we couldn't breathe and you're you just were struggling for [Music] breath no one could really hear cuz all our e drums had been blasted so just this sort of hissing new world that you found yourself in [Music]
• 41:30 - 42:00 we could start to hear screams people in the next Carriage the bomb Carriage crying out for help crying out for Medics and we would just sort of looked at each other going what should we do is anyone a doctor it's like no but I just thought you still got to do something so didn't take long didn't hesitate just got did what we had to do and we pushed through went into the SEC next
• 42:00 - 42:30 Carriage it was black we only had the the light from the parallel carriage and it was incredibly Dusty and and the whole state of the carriage had completely changed it was mangled metal it was nothing you would recognize to be a train and there were bodies everywhere um lots of bodies lots of bags lots of torn up seats metal doors everything was distorted and and crazy and I could see one body where you know clothes being
• 42:30 - 43:00 blown off it was it was just sheer horror I just moved on and helped the people I thought needed helping and at that point the chaps who' been with me at the front of the carriage who were just inside the door had called through and said we can get out we can we can we can escape the carriage which we've been trapped in so I sort of tried to signal to people I tried to call out is anyone in this Carriage can you anyone well enough to walk anyone can get up come with us no one responded cuz no one
• 43:00 - 43:30 could hear a thing all their ears are gone and I just just signed to the people immediately in front of me you know ready go and they just suddenly woke up from this sort of shell shock State and just I just walked out of the tube and there were injured everywhere police everywhere bomb squad people it was a crazy scene and I just walked out and and it it was bright and it hit me I was
• 43:30 - 44:00 sort of felt relieved for the first time I had the ability to kind of indulge in my own feelings and I just felt this huge wave of emotion and it was just a huge emotional outlet and I just burst into tears and was just like oh my God and just cried and cried and cried [Music] so many people that day did so many amazing things whether they were Public
• 44:00 - 44:30 Service people whose job it was to do the bomb squads to the sniffer dogs but also the driver everyone and all the passengers on that train and the parallel train most importantly this the the sheer effort Spirit selflessness of people who despite all that instinct saying fight flight get away from this danger they thought no I will go to it and they left their train which was safe and secure relatively and boarded our train there is that instinct of to run
• 44:30 - 45:00 away and to save yourself but at the same time it seems much stronger drive for people to override that and to go to the help of other people and some people find that so surprising and incomprehensible but I think it's more extraordinary not to have done anything when there was so much distress hurt people were dying people were bleeding to death the thought that you would not do anything in that situation I find I can't I wouldn't be able to
• 45:00 - 45:30 understand [Music] that and s's here as well I don't suppose you think of yourself as a human rights worker what we heard about this instinct to save yourself and then some kind of stronger Drive to override that and just go to the help
• 45:30 - 46:00 of other people and I see I see this idea which is linked to the irrepressible of our spirit which is unavoidable in what we are in some kind of mysterious way as the very core of what our subject is about we're driven to engage in this energetic empathetic solid arity and we're either Lucky in life and
• 46:00 - 46:30 offer to others or we're unlucky in life and we push on behalf of ourselves and others but they are united by this common intuitive commitment to reaching out and that's what we are and that is what makes us in the end for all the pressures a human rights culture and the rest of it falls into
• 46:30 - 47:00 place as part of that now I'm going to leave the last word to Raphael and this is what he's had to say about the future some people say that human rights activists are naive no that's why I'm doing law actually um it's not about naivity it's about uh uh conviction it's
• 47:00 - 47:30 about Justice it's about greatness that is uh human right if we can achieve at least 50% of what is in the convention treates on human rights I don't think that we will have the world that as we know today we will
• 47:30 - 48:00 have a better place that is the conviction behind human right is not about naivity so there you are guys there's no there's no doll there just a few notes you know what the props are for you've got Western idea and necessary evil in the bin and you've got uh very human righted
• 48:00 - 48:30 to have the smallest the most powerful we're not largest you've got underlying ideas about human rights and at the bottom you've got our instinct to reach out the DNA of Human Rights thank you very much [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]
• 48:30 - 49:00 [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause]