The 'Creepy' Truth About Meta's New AI App | Pivot

Summary

In the latest episode of Pivot with Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway, the duo dives into the unsettling nature of Meta's new AI app, highlighting the privacy concerns and the implications of using personal data. They discuss the broader context of AI in our digital landscape, comparing Meta's approach to other tech giants and examining the regulatory landscape. With a mix of humor and critical analysis, they unpack how the digital age is reshaping privacy norms and consumer behavior.

Highlights

• Meta's new AI app raises significant privacy and transparency issues among users 🚨.
• There's a growing debate on whether convenience is worth the trade-off with personal privacy 🔍.
• Kara and Scott critique Meta's excessive data collection tactics and lack of user control 🚫.
• Discussions on AI highlight the tension between technological advancement and personal privacy 🤖.
• The hosts humorously tackle serious issues on tech companies' responsibilities and ethics 📢.

Key Takeaways

• Meta's new AI app is raising eyebrows with its invasive data collection and lack of transparency 🚨.
• Privacy concerns are paramount as Meta continues to leverage its vast amounts of user data for AI development 🔍.
• The hosts express skepticism about entrusting personal data to Meta, given their past controversies 🚫.
• AI's rapid development sparks discussions on balancing innovation with privacy and ethical considerations 🤖.
• The episode mixes humor with critical perspectives on tech companies' accountability and transparency 📢.

Overview

In this episode, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway tackle the 'creepy' elements of Meta's latest AI app, dissecting its impact on privacy and data security. They highlight concerns over Meta's use of extensive personal data, bringing to light the potential risks and ethical dilemmas that users face when engaging with such technologies.

The hosts delve into the broader implications of AI development, comparing Meta's approach with other major tech companies. They discuss how AI, while being a monumental leap in technology, brings challenges in maintaining user privacy and grounding innovation in ethical practices. Their conversation is both informative and laced with humor, making complex tech discussions accessible and engaging.

Through wit and sharp analysis, Kara and Scott question the trade-offs between convenience and privacy. They provocatively challenge listeners to consider the consequences of surrendering personal data for digital services, urging a more critical view of how tech companies handle user information in the age of AI.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction The chapter introduces the topic of privacy in the digital age, where individuals are more willing to share personal information for the sake of convenience. The speaker mentions their attitude towards privacy concerning smart technology, like a car service application, where they value real-time updates about their ride more than their privacy concerns. The narrative shifts to introducing Pivot, a podcast from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, hosted by Cara Swisher. The speaker shares a personal anecdote about interaction with a media company.
• 00:30 - 05:00: Profile on Kara Swisher The chapter focuses on a profile being done on Kara Swisher, highlighting her qualities as a leader. The narrator shares their anxiety and apprehension about the process, analogous to undergoing an uncomfortable experience like a colonoscopy without anesthetic. They recall a question about what makes Kara an amazing leader, suggesting that the experience was quite intense and nerve-wracking.
• 05:00 - 07:00: Scott Galloway's Early Career and Dockers In this chapter, Scott Galloway reflects on his early career, particularly his time working with Dockers. He discusses the challenges and uncertainties he faced, including the potential for others to misinterpret or misrepresent his words. Despite feeling that a media piece might turn into a 'puff piece,' Scott acknowledges the complexity of his experiences and the narrative that might unfold.
• 07:00 - 10:00: Book Party Anecdote The chapter delves into the speaker's approach to dealing with media and public perception. The speaker expresses a willingness to provide references to people who dislike them, suggesting a confidence in being judged by their adversaries. There's an emphasis on authenticity and transparency, with the individual preferring to direct others to those who might speak negatively of them, both on and off the record. This strategy reflects a belief in the importance of honest representation and the ability to withstand criticism.
• 10:00 - 15:00: The Met Gala and Red Envelope Story The chapter revolves around a conversation where the narrator discusses the Met Gala and a story involving a red envelope, though details on these topics are not thoroughly covered in the transcript.
• 15:00 - 18:00: Current Events: India-Pakistan Tensions This chapter discusses the ongoing tensions between India and Pakistan. It opens with a humorous anecdote involving celebrities such as Tina Fay and Alec Baldwin, and transitions into a metaphor related to success and struggle. The conversation touches on the concept of 'Success has many fathers and failure as an orphan,' hinting at the complexities and challenges in the context of international relations and historical brand successes, exemplified by a reference to Levi Strauss as a fast-growing apparel company. The excerpt ends without concluding the point about the apparel brand.
• 18:00 - 23:00: OpenAI and Corporate Structure The chapter discusses the history of apparel brands, particularly focusing on a fast-growing brand owned by Levi Strauss, which was neither Levi's nor Jord. The brand in question is revealed to be Dockers, which is noted for its remarkable success and its unique style, which evokes varied reactions. The informal exchange highlights different perspectives on Dockers, emphasizing comfort and style preferences.
• 23:00 - 28:00: Listener Predictions on AI In this chapter, the discussion revolves around the inherent nature of being gay, emphasizing that it is not influenced by nurture but is a natural aspect of an individual's identity. The narrator humorously associates their love for Dockers from a young age as a symbol of their identity, reflecting on past fashion choices. Additionally, the chapter touches upon the narrator's professional background, specifically their experience with Levi's as a consulting client in the 1990s, where Dockers played a significant role.
• 28:00 - 34:00: Trade Deals and Tariffs with UK and Canada This chapter discusses the genesis and impact of Dockers, a clothing brand that emerged during the business casual and work-from-home trend of the 1990s. It highlights how multiple people claimed to be the founders of Dockers as the brand became successful. The brand capitalized on the confusion men had about dressing for the new work environment, offering an easy solution with their products. The chapter also briefly mentions a social event related to Keith McN, illustrating the cultural connections around the brand's narrative.
• 34:00 - 40:00: Password Security and Government Officials This chapter covers an event at a restaurant called Tavern, where a book party was held, attended by various guests. The atmosphere was praised as outstanding, and the event was memorable due to both the excellent food and the readings from the book by Richard Eyre Grant. Additionally, a discussion about a stroke suffered by an individual (possibly the author) was held, touching on the challenges related to speech and mobility experienced after the stroke.
• 40:00 - 46:00: Gates Foundation and Philanthropy The chapter discusses a lighthearted conversation where one person talks about their casual approach to dressing for parties, emphasizing comfort over formality. This attitude is accepted and even seen as part of their personal brand. Despite occasional doubts about their choice of attire, they maintain this relaxed style.
• 46:00 - 53:00: Disney and Uber Earnings The chapter humorously discusses the idea of the speakers being invited to the Met Gala, suggesting their presence would be enough to end the event. They joke about dressing up as tech personalities like Elon Musk.
• 53:00 - 58:00: Listener Prediction on US Economy The speaker shares their experience with founding Red Envelope, an e-commerce startup, highlighting their ability to raise significant funds due to their networking skills and industry presence. They mention their focus on brand building and reference their college roommate David Kerry, a notable figure in the magazine industry, as part of their journey to establish the brand. The speaker enjoyed spending time in New York, suggesting it was part of their strategy to grow the brand.
• 58:00 - 64:00: Meta's New AI App Discussion The chapter features a discussion about Meta's new AI app. The conversation highlights an extravagant ad spend on Vanity Fair and Vogue magazine by Red Envelope. The Vogue cafeteria is portrayed as an elite location occupied by beautiful women, attractive gay men, and notable figures like Sai New House and Anna Wintour. The narrator expresses a desire to move to New York and recalls purchasing items costing significantly.
• 64:00 - 69:00: Golden Globes and Self-Driving Trucks The chapter discusses various topics including the Golden Globes and advancements in self-driving trucks. Other subjects touched upon include Meta's new AI application, the digital privacy concerns associated with Pete Hegsth and Tulsi Gabbard, and Disney's latest earnings report. The chapter also highlights the escalating tensions between India and Pakistan.
• 69:00 - 81:00: Trump Administration and Economic Grift The chapter discusses military strikes launched by India against targets in Pakistan in response to a deadly attack in Kashmir, highlighting the conflict amidst important economic maneuvers by both countries. India is engaging in trade agreements with the US and the UK, while Pakistan is recovering from a prolonged financial crisis and has strengthened its ties with China, which it regards as an 'ironclad' friendship. US President Trump has offered assistance in easing tensions, emphasizing his willingness to intervene if needed. The context includes strategic alliances forming with global trade and political implications.
• 81:00 - 86:00: Listener Prediction on Personal Grooming The chapter discusses the sensitive geopolitical relations between two nuclear powers, mentioning a personal deal with Pakistan. It includes insights from an interview with Christiane Amanpour on the topic, emphasizing the seriousness of border skirmishes between nuclear-armed countries.
• 86:00 - 93:00: Wrap Up This chapter discusses the geopolitical and economic tensions between India and its neighboring countries, focusing on the potential consequences of instability in the region. The narrative highlights the influence of western historical decisions, particularly by the UK, in creating ongoing conflicts such as those over Kashmir. The chapter also mentions potential impacts on global markets, like oil and gold prices, due to such regional disagreements and tensions amplified by nuclear capabilities of the countries involved.

The 'Creepy' Truth About Meta's New AI App | Pivot Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 You're much more promiscuous in loading up your information. Yeah, my attitude is violate my privacy as long as I can see that my QX60 is one minute away. I I could just eat edibles and order Ubers and watch how close my car is. I find it [ __ ] fascinating. Why is he making a right turn on Broom? Doesn't he know where he's going? Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser and I get a call from this iconic media company that is doing or reporter there and I won't
• 00:30 - 01:00 say which company that is doing a profile on Cara Swisser. You've had one there. And her first uh question was, "What qualities make Cara such an amazing leader?" And I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] This is going to be rough. This is I literally I'm not exaggerating, Cara. I went and made myself a drink and I'm like, "Okay, okay, this is how it's going to go. this is how it's going to go. And it was literally like getting a colonoscopy without anesthetic. I just sat there and said, "Okay, it's going to
• 01:00 - 01:30 be over soon. It's going to be over soon." Did you embarrass me? My instructions to you were to embarrass me in some fashion. Well, here's the thing. When you do these things, what you realize is it's entirely up to them. They could twist your words anyway. Yeah. and they could use, you know, one or two things I said to support some narrative that was negative or but I I definitely got the feeling it was gonna it's going to be a giant puff piece, but we'll see. No, it's not. No, I have a very complex, you know, they'll find
• 01:30 - 02:00 someone who I'm not saying you deserve a puff piece. I gave them I gave them recommendations of people who don't like me. I'm like, they're going to give you an off thereord piece on me, so you might as well just call them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I do the same thing, but I just make sure they're [ __ ] I I'm a big believer in what FBR said and that is please judge me by my enemies. I love giving out the names of some people who hate me. I'm like here she's going to say something to me nice on the record and that not nice off the record. Here's someone who's going to you know I gave him a range of people. I think it's focused on me helping people get away
• 02:00 - 02:30 from old media. I think that's my impression. Yeah. They wanted to talk about the people you've nurtured and all that stuff a lot. There are quite a lot. There's quite a few. Yeah. Including you, Scott Galloway. Yes, that's right. Although I I was never really in in media. I was um No, you weren't. I brought you I always say the same thing. I'm like the most rewarding thing about our relationship is that it is very purposeful and nice to resuscitate someone's flagging career and that has been very nice for me. I saw that you were struggling and I thought, okay, if
• 02:30 - 03:00 Tina Fay can do this for Alec Baldwin, there's no reason that Scott Galloway can't do it for Cara Swisser. I know. Thank you so much. I I just I'm in so much in your debt. I was struggling. Success has many fathers and failure as an orphan. I remember I remember working at Levi Straussing Company in the 90s and this is the weakest flex in the world. But the fastest zero to billion apparel brand at that point and then the fastest one after that was Old Navy but before that the fastest one. What apparel brand? It's literally the lamest
• 03:00 - 03:30 apparel brand in history but it was the fastest zero to a billion apparel brand and it was owned by Levi Strauss company. It wasn't Levis's. You know what it was? What? Jord? No. Oh, it was like screaming to the world, don't have sex with me. It was Do you remember Dockers? I love Dockers. Oh god, don't say that. Jesus, stop. Please make her stop. They had extra pockets. The thing is, I can see that. I can totally see you in Dockers. Oh my god. They're very comfortable. Oh my god, Scott. I literally have the same
• 03:30 - 04:00 clothes since high school. Anyone who believes being gay is anything to do with nurture, it is so nature. You were literally born in Dockers, weren't you? I was. I love Dockers. Dockers in a I'm not even going to try and describe the kind of lesbian fashion or lash extra pockets. That's all I remember. Anyways, back to me. I would walk around. Levi Stson was my biggest consulting client or profit for like two years in the '90s and everybody everybody would introduce themselves as the founder of Dockers
• 04:00 - 04:30 because it had been so successful. There would be like nine people who were the not the co-founder but the founder of Dockers. Everybody decided that they had started this idea and it it it's so interesting. It basically took advantage of this huge trend and that was casual work Friday was the stay-at-home work from home trend of the '90s and men had no [ __ ] idea how to dress for it and Docker said just trust us. I use them as as f you know we went to this party last night for Keith McN. Uh he has a Manetta
• 04:30 - 05:00 Tavern here. What a great restaurant, by the way. And he's lovely, let me just say. Um, and it's he's written this astonishing. It's the best book party I've been to because it was not about the book. It was, but they read from the book. Richard Eye Grant read sections from it and everything else. Um, and it was great food. They said it was dinner adjacent and then it was bigger than any dinner I've ever eaten. And he's, you know, I don't know if you know this, he had a stroke. Um, we chatted about it quite a bit. um he he's much he has much more issues around speaking and his one of his sides of his body, but just a
• 05:00 - 05:30 beautiful book that he's written and they had music and food and everything else really fun. But I wore like such sloppy clothes and I said Amanda's like, "Oh, I should dress up a little bit." I said, "Do matter what you do, I will be more underdressed." And she goes, "Oh, okay." And felt better. I show up in like almost pajamas to parties now. That's what I'm doing. Yeah, you can get away with that though. It's sort of your brand. I know. I can't. I don't know why every once in a while. No, not really. Not really. I'm gonna I'm gonna get my Dockers and find them and wear them with
• 05:30 - 06:00 you on something we do. I think that we should officially I think if Vogue ever decides we've just [ __ ] had it with this Matt Gayla [ __ ] and they want to jump the shark, they should invite us. They should absolutely invite. We would We would literally put an end to that whole thing. We would put an end to it. Oh my god. Anna Winter. Anna Winter, if you're listening, if you need a reason to retire, do you know what? I'm going to somehow get that message to her that she should invite us. Maybe they'll do a tech one and then we'll show up as like a we'll dress like Elon or something. Back to me. So, in the '9s
• 06:00 - 06:30 when I started Red Envelope and because I had a shaved head, I was white, had outdoor plumbing and a pretty good gab. I could raise tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars for my crazy e-commerce startups. And I'd raised so much [ __ ] money for Red Envelope. And we'd all, you know, I was the brand guy, so I thought, "Oh, we got to build a brand." So my college roommate David Kerry who was the head of magazines I think at Condast. Yes. He's he'd always been just a lovely guy. We were friends. But I used to fly to New York cuz I wanted to hang out in New York and spend
• 06:30 - 07:00 overspend on Vanity Fair and um Vogue magazine, these ads for Red Envelope. And literally the weapon was the coolest place on the planet was the Vogue cafeteria. Did you ever eat there? Oh, it's Oh, yeah. It was beautiful. And it was all these ridiculously beautiful women and hot gay men. And then Sai New House and Anna Winter would be sitting in the corner and you'd walk in. I remember thinking, I got to move to New York. And I would buy these $120,000 a
• 07:00 - 07:30 page ads. I don't even know if they worked or not, but I just wanted to go to lunch with my friend David Carrie. I probably spent seven or eight million bucks of other people's money just so I got to eat in the cafeteria. Well, that's nice. That's a good thing. At the common cafeteria. Certainly. Well, we've got a lot to get to today, so we got to move on. Including Meta's creepy new AI app, Pete Hegsth, and Tulsi Gabbard's continuing sloppiness around like digital privacy and protection of their stuff and Disney's latest earnings. But first, tensions between India and Pakistan are escalating after India
• 07:30 - 08:00 launched military strikes against targets in Pakistan this week in retaliation for deadly attack in Kashmir. This conflict is happening at a pivotal economic moment. India is doing trade deals with the US and the UK and Pakistan is emerging from a years'sl long financial crisis. You've also got China recently uh allied with Pakistan recently calling Pis Pakistan an ironclad friend and an all-weather strategic uh cooperative partners partner for his part. President Trump has offered to help to diffuse things saying if I can do anything to help I'll be there. Of course the Trumps
• 08:00 - 08:30 themselves are doing some some deal with Pakistan too a personal deal. So there's that thrown in there. Both countries are uh nuclear powers. Um I I in fact interviewed Christian Amenpor so I'm going to channel whatever she says in my comments and pretend they're mine. Yesterday she had a lot to you know it was an interesting inter interview but this is sort of the the day conflict. Any thoughts? Well yeah whenever there's a border skirmish with nuclear powers you have to take it very seriously. And
• 08:30 - 09:00 on a much less substantive level India is a big trading partner with us on the economy. you could see oil prices and gold prices uh skyrocket with that kind of instability. But when two nuclear powers who border each other start you know arguing it's very scary and it can all be sort of reverse engineered to of course the west uh specifically the UK dividing up India into Pakistan in a very sloppy way that's created all sorts of uh religious and regional tensions and fights over Kashmir and um China
• 09:00 - 09:30 will probably or China is a very strong ally they describe themselves as an ironcloud friend of Pakistan uh India has very strong relationships with Japan and Isra Israel and the UAE. I just hope the adults show up and and diffuse the tensions because typically these types of crazy conflicts are real exogenous shocks. It's not the [ __ ] you're worried about that gets you. It's the [ __ ] you're not thinking about. Well, you know, Cristian was saying that it requires really good diplomacy and she's worried about the Trump administration
• 09:30 - 10:00 because the US has always been a key person here and she said into a vacuum something always flows. And so that would be China. and you know there are these complications of the Trump's personal financial interests um in in the countries uh and it it just makes a big mess of it and she was worried there wasn't someone who could like they'll send in that idiot Steve Witco or someone like that to deal with it rather than someone more competent and if Steven Miller becomes the national security ad I mean seriously so over his
• 10:00 - 10:30 skis um and doesn't like brown people from what I can tell um and uh so they it's a real problem if you don't have the US in a in real fighting shape among these people to sort of shut the whole thing down. Um and you know it's another one of these conflicts. The next one will be possibly Taiwan. And so there's going to be one conflict after the next as China starts to really flex its power. Um especially as its economy is uh suffering uh because of the tariffs, it'll it'll want to it won't expand
• 10:30 - 11:00 elsewhere. I think anyway we're not experts on this but uh I would recommend listening to Scott interviews lots of foreign uh experts and I just did Christian and so listen to them but um but still troubling for the for the for the stock market for the economies and for stability in general with all the different conflicts around the world. I thought he was going to be the settle president but I guess not. Um Open AI will abandon plans to place its AI business under control of a for-profit entity. Instead, it will transform its for-profit subsidiary into a public
• 11:00 - 11:30 benefit corporation controlled by the nonprofit parent, which I think was they were considering a lot of things. The decision was made after talking to civic leaders and AGs of California and Delaware, who would need to sign off on the plan. Obviously, they didn't like what was, you know, the possibilities. Sam Alman, CEO Sam Alman said the changes will still allow the company to access $30 billion investment from SoftBank. As a reminder, Elon Musk has been attempting to block the company's restructuring. His lawyer says the announcement changes nothing, which means he didn't really care about the nonprofit part if this is what they're
• 11:30 - 12:00 doing. Uh, obviously he wants his vague because that's what Elon wants. Um, I talked to to um Sam and Brett Taylor about it. And I think, you know, I was like, this is a a back walk. Um, they were like, no, because we were considering lots of things. Then we got feedback and we made the decision and said that the Musk thing had nothing to do with it. And it was evidenced by the fact that Mus didn't pull the lawsuit after uh they did this and they felt like they still had enough ability to um um you know to to raise money. I think
• 12:00 - 12:30 their issue is they've got to raise money and at the same time reward people and then they have a lot of people feeling they should stay true to their original roots which was an was a missiondriven company. So probably will be a good thing for them to get this in their rearview mirror and then move on. Um but I don't know if you have any thoughts. So I I I'd love to speak to prear someone who's close to the issue but my general take uh on first blush is the following and that is uh Elon Musk has absolutely catalyzed this and that is just as there's lawfare I think this
• 12:30 - 13:00 is what I would refer to as nomenclature fair and that is the judge a judge the attorney general essentially told open AI that the proposed transition doesn't fit the the strict criteria for transition from a nonprofit to a forprofit and so effectively What they've done is by saying, "Oh, no, just kidding. We're one of these ridiculous private benefit corporations that a bunch of VCs could virtue signal and say, "I still want the money, but I want to pretend I'm actually helping humanity." I think it's the most ridiculous corporate classification in
• 13:00 - 13:30 history. Um, they they go back and say, "No, we're a not for-p profofit, but they're lifting the cap on when the for-profit is entitled to the profits of above hundred billion, which I think only three companies have ever achieved." So this effectively from a mechanical situation or the complexion of the company, the operations or the shareholder governance has absolutely no impact, but I think somewhat inoculates them from the kind of the the white meat
• 13:30 - 14:00 of Musk's accusations in his case. I think the lawyers came back and said, "Okay, fine. Tell tell uh Musk and his lawyers, oh, just kidding. You win. We're still a a nonprofit, but it's not going to change anything we do practically. No, let me tell you something. They said the for-profit corporation board and the nonprofit board will be the same people, right? And so, you know, it's usually this nonprofit has a geminy over the for-profit corporation now, but it's the
• 14:00 - 14:30 same board. It's the same board. It's the same It's the same. Nothing changes here except OpenAI's lawyers can say, "Oh, we are a not for profit. He has no case." That's how I read. Except he didn't pull the case cuz he wants He's not He didn't do it to help anybody at all. Helped himself to help himself or slow them down. That's what he did it for. Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. So, we'll see. I think it'll give them it'll it'll get everyone else will back off and he will just continue because he thinks he's
• 14:30 - 15:00 owed more. I think that's really at the heart of his case is he thinks he created it and funded it and deserves more money from it. Sell his remorse. He walked away. One of the biggest mistakes ever in terms of just pure wealth is he said, "I'm out of here." And he said he signed away the company ironclad documents. He's out which he did with Twitter. remember he was going to buy it and then he I my house in San Francisco is next to where Mark Zuckerberg moved and I bought it for $760,000 and 24 months later when I
• 15:00 - 15:30 moved to New York so I could spend more time in the Continent cafeteria. I sold it for $950,000 and I thought it was the [ __ ] greatest real estate investor in history. Uh Cara, it is worth substantially more now. It is. I live in that neighborhood. Okay, it's worth substantially more. This is absolutely no different in terms of legal veracity than if I went back and said, "I want my house back. I want my house back. I want the money. My house is worth. I want my house back. You owe me." It's gone up. I I know I signed legal documents transferring ownership of this asset and
• 15:30 - 16:00 private property laws are pretty pretty detailed. But I've decided because I [ __ ] up selling it that I want it back or at least I want threw a tizzy. She threw a [ __ ] tizzy and lost money. And they're pulling way ahead. I mean to chat GBT is really the numbers are really quite startling in terms of the usage. Um they're also spending money too. This is really but it feels like they're really pulling ahead in that regard and they're going to get they're going to get there. One of the things someone was like why is it so chaotic? I'm like you were not around for Google and then they were fine. You know what I mean? Like I think they're probably on a
• 16:00 - 16:30 Google trajectory and not a Netscape trajectory. Um, but Google was a [ __ ] chaos monkey of a [ __ ] house for a long long time and before they settled in and and uh went. Anyway, before we move on, we're going to be listening to some predictions from listeners today, just so you know. Um, let's listen to the f we asked we asked listeners to give them our predictions because I'm trying to replace you quietly. So, let's listen to the first one now because we're already on the topic. Hey Karen, Scott, Matt Mar here from M7 and my prediction is on the
• 16:30 - 17:00 AI arms race and which model will win in the long run. It's not going to be GPT even if it's the superior product. Now Gemini not caught it will be Meta's llama. It's the only model that is truly open source which means it will be the technical layer of infrastructure developers and vibe coders can build upon and oh yeah they can flip a switch and connect your entire social graph through the decades of data they've collected on you. So open- source plus social is, as Scott would say, the peanut butter and chocolate of AI models. That's a good argument. That's a good argument. He's right. I mean that I mean I when I interviewed AMD's CE uh
• 17:00 - 17:30 CEO, Lisa Sue, she was sort of everyone's sort of leaning into the open source model. They definitely are the second competitor. I think that's what OpenAI thinks. I think they think it's Gemini themselves and and Llama and Llama would be number two. Scott, my um view is that Meta is the AI company actually of 2025. Uh they're they're the second largest purchaser of Nvidia GPUs just behind Microsoft. So they have the most processing power other than
• 17:30 - 18:00 Microsoft. In addition, what is underappreciated is Reddit, which is an amazing company and the fifth or sixth most traffic site in America, generates 1.3 trillion tokens of data. And that's really the, you know, that's the, you could argue that's the rare resource here. It doesn't, it doesn't matter how much refining capability you have if you don't have the fossil fuel to put into it or the coal to put into the furnace. And so, Reddit has 1.3 trillion tokens of data. And just to give you a sense for just how much data Meta produces. They have 183 trillion tokens of data.
• 18:00 - 18:30 And I think they made the move. And unfortunately, um, Mark Zuckerberg is as brilliant as he is. sociopathic and I think he decided okay the the train has left the station around a for consumer uh subscription model. So what we're going to do is we're going to make this open source and we're going to use this the same way we use WhatsApp as a body bag for data to feed our other paid platforms. I think that Meta and Llama
• 18:30 - 19:00 and if you look at Llama, Llama is really frightening because it has because it's open source and has absolutely as far as I can tell no guardrails. If you go to Llama and say, "How to kill your husband slowly?" It literally goes, "Well, what kitchen supplies do you have? How often is he in the house?" I mean, it's Mark Zuckerberg, people. I give you It's got It's got no guardrails. It'll it'll and it'll start helping you do whatever it is you would like to do. Sounds about right. And he'll get massive traffic. He I think he'll make it free and then he'll use all of that data such that I
• 19:00 - 19:30 get served ads for you know for you know hemorrhoid cream at at the exact right moment. Uh I think I think meta I mean four out of five people who aren't in China are on a meta platform once a week. He has more data. He's making huge visionary investments with the capital he has. He made the pivot from the metaverse quite smartly. Yeah. So I pulling the money on Yeah. I I think this guy's right and I think Matt is the AI company of 25. We like the thing, Matt. I see your point. I'm just saying right now open a eye is in the lead, but
• 19:30 - 20:00 you're right. They've got a lot of throughput. I suspect that open will get sold as one of them at some point or maybe not now that they're a nonprofit. But well just on a meta level though um a meta a meta meta level uh I now believe that similar to uh jet transportation technology or um the personal computer I'm not convinced that anyone company is going to be able to sequester trillions of dollars in shareholder value. I think the big winners are going to be open source and the general public. I do think that AI
• 20:00 - 20:30 is going to make everyone more productive or mostly everyone 100%. Electricity. Yeah, we have to move on though. Um, as that was a great one, Matt. Thank you. That's really smart. And the fact that you're using Scott's phrases now is she's not that nice. She interrupts me all the time. Just saying. I said that. I said that. Okay. I know you did. And Matt, we appreciate it. As we tape on Thursday, President Trump is set to announce a framework of a trade deal with the U with the UK. Teasing the announcement on True Social. Trump called many other deals will follow. And speaking of our allies, Canadian Prime
• 20:30 - 21:00 Minister Mark Carney sat down for a meeting with President Trump at the White House this week. Trump was of course asked about Canada becoming the 51st state again. Let's listen. Mr. Prime Minister, I'd like to get your response to this too, but Mr. President, you have said that Canada should become the 51st state. No. No. Well, I still believe that. But but you know, takes two to tango, right? Uh but no, I do. I mean, I believe it would be a massive tax cut for the Canadian citizens. Uh you get free military, you get tremendous uh medical
• 21:00 - 21:30 cares and other things. medical care. You get tremendous medical care in Canada. Canadians are dying for our medical care system so they can be more obese, depressed, and anxious and pay more. Pay twice twice as much for their healthcare. Anyway, when Trump eight times what anyone else plays for for don't have any cares about medical. Anyway, when Trump was asked about whether Carney could say anything to lift the tariffs on Canada, he said no. Uh the president also told the room that Canada is very special place to him and that he loves the country. Speaking of tariffs, uh we will this will this is an
• 21:30 - 22:00 interesting thing. Internal documents obtained by the Washington Post show that the State Department pushed uh nations to clear hurdles for Starlink. Huh. Leading to some uh leading to some to believe there would be a tariff relief for following through. Totally by the books as always. Total grift. Um so what I want to just note some things. Um Matt Stler, who's um sort of person who deals with a lot of stuff like this, noted that this UK is hoping to get reduction on 25% tariffs the US is
• 22:00 - 22:30 loving. Um but the baseline 10% tariff will remain in place. Officials say in return, Britain is offering concessions on a digital tax it levies on U big US companies uh big US tech companies. Um and so Stler noted so these trade deals are just cuts and tariffs in return for Google and Meta. Explain how this is an attempt at manufacturing renaissance by demanding consumer sacrifice. Uh so let's go from there. First the the British thing, then Canadian, and I love Mark Carney. He's such a hunk. Um, and
• 22:30 - 23:00 and the Starling thing is exactly as I expected, total pay-per-play. Go ahead. I thought the more insightful and and in educational clip was what how Mark Carney handled the question. And I think anyone who's in communications or anyone who handles does speech writing or or generally just wants a lesson and how you push back forcefully but in the most dignified way and you don't antagonize uh a very sensitive person who's entirely about ego and not about
• 23:00 - 23:30 stakeholder value i.e. the president. He Mark Carney's comments were just such a a masterclass in terms of tone of what he said and he said well you know because he he gave him an opening. Trump said, "Well, I think of it as a real estate deal, and you look at the big, beautiful nation of Canada." Having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign uh last several months, uh it it it's not for sale, won't be for sale, uh ever. Uh but the opportunity is in the partnership and uh and what we can build together and we have done that in the past. And I
• 23:30 - 24:00 thought that was such an insightful way to frame it. And he said, "And the owners the owners have told me that this piece of real estate is not for sale." And that is such an elegant and non-combative way of saying go [ __ ] yourself. Go [ __ ] yourself. And then of course Trump goes never say never. Yeah. Like so that's he did a great job. I thought Carney was quite a spectacularly just he seemed arerudite and approachable at the same time. So go to the tariffs because I do think this is like they're all like really not
• 24:00 - 24:30 tariff deals. This seems like a bunch of shakedowns all over the world, including the Starling thing, which is exactly what I expected and remains horrifying. This is a kleptocracy is you you figure out a way to ascertain or usurp or attain power and then you use that power to make a small group of people very rich who have proximity to you who then give you a vig and everybody else gets less wealthy. And that is what is happening across the entire country as
• 24:30 - 25:00 we have an individual that is acting like a mob boss who monetizes the United States and the White House. And this is exactly that. This is he has proximity to big tech firms. He wants a he thinks of them as iconic. They give them a lot of money. He calls them and they take their their their tariff pricing down. He calls them and they say, "Oh, we're now in the business of of quote unquote free moderation and we call Trump a badass and we give a million dollars to his inauguration and okay, so we're going to give them a lead over every
• 25:00 - 25:30 other tech or media firm in exchange such that we can call it victory and small and medium-sized media media firms are [ __ ] out of luck. It's like okay, they don't get this special advantage. they don't get this relief and he can claim victory by and this this Starling thing is literally like okay this guy put a quarter of a billion dollars into my campaign and so I am going to force countries I'm going to I mean Buffett said it he said trade these types of trade wars are a form where tariffs are
• 25:30 - 26:00 a form of warfare so the US is threatening war in exchange you have to give sweetheart deals non-competitive advantage to the companies owned by the guy that gave me a quarter of a billion dollars to my campaign. He's literally And who does that hurt? It hurts everyone. We're paying unfair taxes, unfair prices in the small and mediumsized businesses in this country who create twothirds of our jobs and don't have lobbyists and don't can't get on the lunch calendar of the president and can't donate to his campaign or
• 26:00 - 26:30 aren't going to, they lose. Essentially, look look at the biggest kleptocracies in the world. whether Poland was emerging into a kleptocracy. Russia has been a kleptocracy for a long time. There are some of the wealthiest people over the last 30 years have been generated in ch uh generated in Russia. Meanwhile, there's potholes in Moscow. Senator Warren summarized it perfectly and that is she said, "Okay, they're getting rich, you're losing your healthcare." That purpose that that
• 26:30 - 27:00 perfectly describes what happens in a kleptocracy. And this is a kleptocracy. If they were to say, "Fine, no tariffs across. you have to drop your tariffs on all of our media or all of our tech companies and have a systemic law. That's fine. But when the president starts picking winners and losers, effectively everyone loses. Yeah. Cuz he loves to be like, I make a deal. I make a deal. But it's always in the interest. The Starling was amazing. Maybe it's the best one, but these countries shouldn't have be forced into if you only take our, you know, if you take our salami, you know, you'll you'll get what you want. You won't be like beat up kind of
• 27:00 - 27:30 thing. And that's what it feels like everything. And of course, it's Starlink. And when there's other choices that they could make with European satellite, whatever it matters, that might be their choice in the end, but they don't get the choice of the choice. And it's it's what the worst thing is it's a lot of small countries, right? A lot of small African countries. It's not just one. There could the post noted it was noted that was like Vietnam was in there. I forget the Congo may have been in there. But um and these are not all the ones on the list. So this is a policy of the government to sell
• 27:30 - 28:00 Starlink. Our government does go around and sell our companies, you know, for for decades, you know, use Lockheed, used Boeing, whatever, but nothing this explicit with someone so close to the president, right, in terms of like, let me get you a deal and giving them unfair advantage. our our trade representatives or our our head of our commerce secretary will take a group of iconic American companies, but they will also take a representative for small businesses and they will say, "Okay, we're here with Boeing, Proctor and Gamble, Estee Lauder, North Face, and
• 28:00 - 28:30 trade representatives for small and medium-sized businesses and manufacturers and we're here and we go to China and we try and cut a deal and we speak with one voice and talk about, you know, great American companies, but they don't go over and say, "Oh, by the way, you know, Exxon gave me a [ __ ] ton of I need you to build a an Exxon field here. Then everyone in oil and gas but Exxon loses. And what happens is companies start allocating more and more money to the kleptocrat which their
• 28:30 - 29:00 consumers pay for and the companies it creates just an incentive system that's just a downward spiral. Absolutely. And it's a similar incentive system right now unfortunately because of Citizens United around companies allocating more and more capital to lobbing and weaponizing. Interesting. It's a waste of money. Lobbying is a waste of money. And and and then the Trump boys go around the world doing either you you were on Anderson Cooper uh I think it was last night. Um the crypto stuff, the real estate stuff. They're building a big building in um uh in Saudi Arabia,
• 29:00 - 29:30 one in all over the Middle East and just getting like they're just going with the with like a bag of money. Like it's they feel like mob people like here put the money in the bag and then we'll do whatever you want. Anyway, it's it's grotesque. It really it is. Anyway, Scott, and these trade deals, let's watch, let's take them apart very carefully, but most of them are going to be in this genre, giving a favor to someone and not bringing manufacturing back to the US. That was never the goal. That was a giant lie they were telling. Um, and people did these sort of virtue
• 29:30 - 30:00 signalings of things they were already investing in um to pretend that they were bringing manufacturing back to the US. So, regular workers are not probably not going to benefit very much as they didn't in the first Trump administration. when we made all those promises, none of which came to fruition about manufacturing facilities. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Tulsi Gabbard and Pete Heg says password fails. What a surprise. Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence. That's that's that's working hard, that word right there, those two words. Um, reportedly has a
• 30:00 - 30:30 history of not following best practices when it comes to cyber security. Gabbard used the same easily corrected password across multiple accounts. I'm surprised it wasn't 1 2 3 4 for years. According to Wired, the password showed up in multiple data breaches and was linked to her Gmail, Dropbox, and LinkedIn accounts, and it was apparently some nickname she had in some strange group she belonged to. During the time the breaches occurred, Gabbard was serving in Congress and sitting on the intelligence related committees with access to sensitive national security information. Then again, not hold my
• 30:30 - 31:00 beer, a lot of beers. Defense Secretary Pete Hegats also had passwords exposed in multiple data breaches, including the one that was reused across personal email accounts according to New York Times. I mean, this is like worse than my mother, these two. And um we also learned that he used Signal, Pete Heg says, even more for Pentagon business, engaging at least a dozen separate chats, the Wall Street Journal reported. I mean, I've never seen more promiscuous people when it comes to bad data practices. And talk about your concerns
• 31:00 - 31:30 about this. It doesn't like these people do not know how to keep classified information safe. Um, and even their own personal information at the same time. Well, you know what happens when Pete Hexath takes Viagra? What? He grows taller. Cara, he grows taller. Uh look, when we send our young our daughters and our sons to serpent uniform, Mhm. they leave their families for months at a time. They forego
• 31:30 - 32:00 economic opportunity and they put themselves in harm's way and oftenimes come back severely traumatized because, you know, they face such intense and incredibly stressful situations. And in exchange for that, we have unprecedented ability to deliver violence all over the world that has created prosperity and security for Americans for 250 years. And the reason why the US military is the most impressive organization in the history of the West is because from top
• 32:00 - 32:30 to bottom, people take it very seriously. And that is they appreciate even even if you're anti-war, anti-military, if you're in a position to help and protect our men in uniform, you do it. and you don't do anything, you know, you don't do anything to to threaten their safety. And this is especially true, it is very hard to ma hard to maintain morality or excuse me, uh maintain morale if anyone within the organization, whether it's the CIA case officers on the ground
• 32:30 - 33:00 feeding them bad information, whether it's the person repairing your plane, trusting they're literally sweating all night that there's not going to be a mechanical failure. And the idea that the defense secretary is being reckless with classified information and putting them in harm's potentially in harm's way. And you may even know know how this manifests. Let's you know who should comment on this. Let's uh use let's get Pete Hexath's words on this. In 2016, he said the following when referencing
• 33:00 - 33:30 Hillary Clinton storing confidential information on an email server. How damaging is it to your ability to recruit or build allies with others when they are worried that our leaders may be exposing them because of their gross negligence, of their recklessness in handling information. Oh, he's such a hypocrite. And uh he then went on to say, "The people we rely on to do dangerous and difficult things to us rely on one thing from us. That we will not reveal their identity. That we will not be reckless with the dangerous things that they're doing for us. That's
• 33:30 - 34:00 the national security implications of a private server that's unsecured. I mean this guy he literally defines hypocrisy and uh then he went on to say if at the very top there's no accountability then there's two tiers of justice said Hacksath yeah Pete the secretary Hagath there appears to be two tiers of justice here and this is you know these the people in the military have one thing in common they all the most patriotic
• 34:00 - 34:30 people in America are our veterans And anyone who has kids knows why when you make this type of investment and sacrifice in something, you become invested in it. Success. And that's one of the reasons I think we need mandatory national service. This guy does not appear to be invested in our success by virtue of the fact he's just so [ __ ] reckless. And then all the planes falling off of aircraft. I've never heard of this. Like what in the world is happening? All this sloppiness. They'll blame it on Bernie Sanders. They'll blame it on someone. I just I've never heard of blame. Like when's the last
• 34:30 - 35:00 time that was a story? And now it's like a double story. Like these people are sloppy in every single aspect of their lives. Anyway, whatever. There'll be more of it and we'll find out. I mean, I'm sure our our our rivals are just loving it. And they're really kind this this kid named this ROC kid who couldn't go to college unless it had been for ROTC. Martin Ortiz, uh, my fraternity brother. This guy was so irresponsible, so reckless, so crazy,
• 35:00 - 35:30 right? I mean, we were literally, you know, we didn't shy away from crazy behavior in the fraternity. Everyone was scared of this guy. He would come to my apartment because he lived far away from his base. And he would sleep in our room on the floor and he would wake up at 3:45 in the [ __ ] morning after drinking all night. So, he could be a half an hour early at his base because he knew when it came to when he came to when it came to his military service, there was no margin of error. Period. No margin of error. And this is a guy who couldn't who couldn't get a D in in in
• 35:30 - 36:00 basic English and couldn't figure out a way to rally himself to write a paper or whatever. But when it came to the commitment to the armed services, the culture they have created is you have to be near perfect. Yep. And Pete Hagath is not anyway. Whatever. It's going to be a constant disappointment until they dump this guy. And he'll probably get dumped cuz he dumps planes off of aircraft carriers that cost $60 million each. that the money that we're supposed to be saving. Anyway, uh the Gates Foundation
• 36:00 - 36:30 is marking its 25th anniversary with a major announcement that will officially wind down operations and close its doors permanently in 2045, decades earlier than originally planned. In the meantime, Bill Gates has committed over $200 billion in aid over the next 20 years, astonishing number, with a focus on ending preventable deaths, eradicating infectious diseases, and lifting millions out of poverty. The announcement comes as the US foreign uh and foreign aid faces growing political pressures. They're cutting it everywhere. Trump administration is Gates has been really has got a hair up
• 36:30 - 37:00 his ass about this for sure because in an interview the New York Times, Gates pulled no punches about recent cuts in US aid, putting the onus on Elon Musk, saying he put uh he put it in the wood chipper because he didn't want he didn't go to a party that weekend. Gates went on to say, "The world's richest man has been involved in the deaths of the world's poorest children." I was like he's been a little bit more um like Trump positive just cuz he he wanted to sort of get the aid back in some way, but now he's like [ __ ] it. Like I don't care. This is what's going on here. So
• 37:00 - 37:30 the fact that the the one of the other world's richest men is spending $200 billion of his money in stuff that the US government should be doing. Um and the fact that he's calling on Elon, I thought it was good for Gates. Good for Gates because I I was worried he was sort of modulating himself in a way that I know he doesn't think. So, what do you think about this? There's a popular saying that um a society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. And Elon Musk is is cutting down these trees.
• 37:30 - 38:00 America has been planting shade uh planting trees the shade of which we will never ever sit under. George Bush with I think it was PEPAR. He saved tens of millions of people by making a huge investment in rallying really competent people to try and distribute AIDS cocktail drugs to people in Africa. I that had no impact on me other than it was nice that we had the ability to do it and we used our scale and our strength and our expertise and our science and our universities to do
• 38:00 - 38:30 that. Elon Musk is doing the opposite. He's cutting down the trees, the shade of which he will never sit under because his attitude is if it's not providing me with shade, I don't give a [ __ ] And I'll call it I'll say that I'm in I'm saving money for the government in order to go to Mars. Mars is what we really need to do so we can save humanity. There are certain investments where if you make a small amount of investment and $75 million is not a lot when you look at the world's issues, you can allocate that capital to places of such
• 38:30 - 39:00 need that a little bit of money has enormous ROI. Well, this is 200 billion Scott Gates. No, I'm talking about USA 75 billion. My point is I think Gates who's one of the most brilliant people and also I think later in life as you would hope from a man really developed a great deal of empathy. He thought okay what could I do with my quarter of a trillion dollars in wealth. I could create other great companies. I could build the biggest VC firm in the world. I could decide who gets to be president
• 39:00 - 39:30 or who doesn't. And he said at the margin of the efficient frontier efficient frontier I can save tens of millions of lives because one small pill that staves off or prevents a case of malaria is not that expensive in certain regions of the world or netting or whatever he was doing all kinds of different toilets. He spent a bunch of money on toilets. He's like, "It's not romantic, but if I can bring safe potable water and sanitation to certain regions, I will literally save millions of children who otherwise would have
• 39:30 - 40:00 died of dysentery." He's a complex guy and and not always listen, he was a very difficult person. I was there when he was younger and kind of a jerk. He was a jerk. Um, and all kinds of stuff he's done that is not great in lots of ways. At the same time, the transformation of this person into this kind of philanthropy is really something to see. and the fact that listen it's not it's no small risk for him to call out Musk who has been by the way attacking him relentlessly with fake stuff around
• 40:00 - 40:30 vaccines Musk was one of and Twitter has been the purveyor of this nonsense that Gates is putting chips inside of people's heads all kinds of like through the vaccine and I the fact that this Musk all he does is make trouble for this guy and insult him and and create all kinds mis dangerous misinformation about him and then I'm glad he did this. I'm glad he said it because it's what he thinks. One of the most wonderful things about America as a society is we have created
• 40:30 - 41:00 uh a complexion or a gestalt in our society where typically as you become more powerful there's an onus in an environment that encourages you to evolve to become kinder. Bill Gates has become kinder. I think guys like Mark Benoff and Brian Chesy and even, you know, I I interviewed Melinda French Gates, you can tell as they've gotten more powerful, they really take it very seriously that I need to evolve as a person. I need to become kinder. The worst thing that can happen in a society
• 41:00 - 41:30 is where you create a gestalt that okay, once I become president or once I become the wealthiest man in the world, I digress. I become an even bigger [ __ ] I become even more damaging to the world. And it's not an I I got to think quite frankly and this is more of a philosophical question. What is it about our society where we are evolving this new species of man in the United States where as they become more powerful even the robber barons who were not nice people once they achieved a certain level of power they did flip the switch and think how can I build big
• 41:30 - 42:00 projects and big universities that would help society and these guys are not thinking that way. If only someone had a book coming out in November that discussed what kind of men we should be. Go on. It's more a discussion of what kind of man you shouldn't be. It's a sort of You're telling it. Anyway, we've got to go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Disney and Uber's latest earnings, but good for you, Bill Gates. Good for you, Scott. We're back. Disney is out with its latest earnings. I'd love to hear what you think about this. The company reported $23 billion in revenue, up 7% from a year ago, and
• 42:00 - 42:30 $3.2 billion in net income. A big turnaround from the net loss of $20 million last year. These numbers were fueled by higher streaming profit that seems to be doing well. Good bet by Bob Iger. Domestic theme parks and home video sales of Moana 2. I can tell you I've watched it 109,000 times. And speaking of theme parks, Disney has also announced plans for it a new park in Abu Dhabi. That makes sense. It's seventh theme park resort. I thought they had one there. I don't know why. Disney is often seen as a bellweather for consumer
• 42:30 - 43:00 confidence. These numbers tell you consumers aren't too worried. Or is it just another convoy from earnings report? Um I'm going to add in Uber's earnings, too. The company reported 11.5 billion in revenue, up 14% year-over-year. Good. Not a huge company, but a good solid revenue thing, but slightly below Wall Street's expectations. Total bookings grew 14% to 42 billion. Um, that's the amount. And then they have to take out blah blah blah. They have to pay drivers, etc. Uh, Uber has also just announced a joint venture with Chinese self-driving car
• 43:00 - 43:30 company Pony AI to roll out robo taxis in Middle Eastern markets. look like Uber is becoming the partner for all these things like Whimo and and and uh what Pony AI is doing around the world. So, um I'd love to hear what you um what you think about then we have another listener uh prediction around earnings. But first Disney and then Uber. Well, Uber was Uber just sort of barely missed expectations. I would argue they met expectations. And what's interesting about Uber is their relationship with all the they're striking up with all these different autonomous driving company. It feels like there's an old
• 43:30 - 44:00 Hemingway line uh how did you go bankrupt gradually then suddenly is the answer. It feels like the autonomous wars have been slow and now it feels like it's about we're on the eve of war among uh autonomous whether it's Uber doing deals, Whimo at some point Musk will enter. It feels like autonomous. Whimo and Uber have a deal. Like because they're the reservation system. Like that's what I've always thought Uber was the reservation system for someone. The consumer and you're used to you're used to just booking a car on them. But I
• 44:00 - 44:30 that's what I took away from the Uber earnings, but I didn't I didn't think they're that interesting. The more really the more interesting one was the surprise to the upside from Disney. And that is their stock popped 10%. It's at after really touching kind of 10-year lows. revenue up 7%. Uh the Disney Plus uh not only raised prices but grew their subscriber base which a lot of us weren't expecting. Hulu added over 1 million subscribers. But the real story here is that I think strategically
• 44:30 - 45:00 they're being very smart because what are they doing? They're leaning into their core advantage and point of differentiation and that's its parks business. Uh, Parks was mentioned five times more in this earnings call than the prior quarters call because they realized that Netflix isn't opening a park. Alpha Metac, it takes 10 years, 20 years maybe to build a park like this. Their cruise line is killing it. Um, and they also realize quite frankly they're probably always going to be a distant two or three maybe if they're lucky in
• 45:00 - 45:30 streaming, but they can be number one and command unfair margins in their parks unit. And their parks unit is just killing it. And to Bob Iger's credit, this was this was the strongest earnings call Disney has had in a long time. And that is, okay, the streaming is no longer a sinkhole of capital. And we are we our parks business which is truly differentiated and singular is killing it. So good good for them. I I you know
• 45:30 - 46:00 yeah I think he's and then we'll see who he takes over. But he he's you know he's a pro. This man is a pro. Um okay Scott, while we're on the topic of earnings, let's hear for another prediction from a listener. This one about the economy. Let's play it. By the way, our listeners are so smart. Hi Karen and Scott. This is Rich, an American living in Germany since 2016. My prediction is that the US falls into a recession, possibly even worse than 2008. On the consumer side, tariffs push prices even higher after
• 46:00 - 46:30 years of inflation, crushing demands. Businesses cut jobs even more than they are already due to tariffs and AI. Then on the credit side, investors demand higher yields after we've voluntarily drive our economy off a cliff. Unlike 2008 though, the Fed can't just cut rates in a stagflationary environment. We're stuck in a vicious cycle or toyful k as car knows. To
• 46:30 - 47:00 c this is this is, you know, most people are can't tell if we're going to run into this recessionary environment. Um it it certainly feels like that's what we're being set up for unless he does something. I mean this is self selfinflicted of course. Well there's there's sort of the known unknowns and then the unknown unknowns and it's usually the unknown unknowns that that get you. But in terms of the known unknowns, the fulcrum here about whether we probably go into a recession
• 47:00 - 47:30 or worse stagflation is this nonsense around around tariffs and what happens. If anything resembling the proposed tariffs actually sticks, you're going to see an increase in inflation, an increase in interest rates, and a decline in the economy. The word for that that most young people don't know is stagflation. And when you have stagflation, when the economy is shrinking, even as interest rates go up, which is the worst of that's, you know, that's nitro and glycerin for an economy, you have to sacrifice jobs and massively increase interest rates because basically typically what the Fed
• 47:30 - 48:00 says is we will opt for lower or higher unemployment versus higher inflation. That's the real danger in my opinion. If we go into recession, that's that's something that's supposed to happen every seven years. It brings down prices, quite frankly. It gives young people over the medium-term a little bit of an opportunity to buy into assets at a lower price. I don't think recession is the worst thing that could happen to us. If you look at the Fed's uh notes or or Chairman Pal's notes yesterday, he essentially said we're in a bit of a vibe session. and Kyla Scanland, who I
• 48:00 - 48:30 love, this young uh woman who does a ton of great um work on uh economics. Uh essentially, consumer confidence is at a low since co the uncertainty index is at a high since the 80s. But if you look at the underlying data, if you look at employment, if you look at retail sales, if you look at spending, quite frankly, the economy still looks pretty strong right now. And so he he kept interest rates he kept interest rates flat. So this is all
• 48:30 - 49:00 about in the short term unless you know if look if there's a nuclear detonation on the on the Indian Pakistani border all bets are off right. But in terms of where we are economically right now the fulcrum or the arbiter will be just how [ __ ] insane how down crazy road we travel with these um with these tariffs. So we'll see. But the thing I'm most scared of um is not a recession. I actually think that recessions I think we're due for not an extended recession.
• 49:00 - 49:30 Housing prices and stock prices need to come down such that people like you and me, Cara, maybe transfer a little bit of our wealth and create some opportunity for younger people who want to buy their own homes and buy their own stocks. I don't think that'd be the worst thing in the world. What would be nearly the worst thing for the economy would be a spike in interest rates as the economy goes goes down. And the thing what's so interesting is any economist under the age of 50 doesn't even know the word stagflation. They don't even think it can happen. It can happen. It happened
• 49:30 - 50:00 in the horror movie stagflation. I feel like Bessence's got the upper hand here. Besset and Rubio over the crazies. I think I suspect a little bit more. So it's the tenure. It's the bond. If the bond market starts spiking, they all freak out. They all freak out. You're right. I'm saying with the ter with having to do with Trump's crazy, he seems a little more willing to deal besides himself self deal. Um, in any case, um, we'll see. We'll see. Great. Great. Thank you so much, Rich. That was really great. Um, very quickly, the new
• 50:00 - 50:30 Meta uh AI app is creepy. According to a detailed account in the Washington Post, speaking of of these AI stuff that were met, it probably will dominate in many ways. The app assures personalized AI and delivers via personal information from Facebook and Instagram and memory files where details about users are kept. Jeffrey Fowler, who wrote the post, the article found his memory file contain interest like natural fertility techniques, divorce, and payday loans. Uh Meta Meta also feeds conversations back about Meta's AI training system without an option to opt out. I like I
• 50:30 - 51:00 know you're saying they're going to dominate. There is thing I worry about. You always say, "Oh, I loaded this up. I loaded that up." And I'm always like, "I'm not loading my stuff up, you know, and you can pay a little more to chat TPT so they don't train on your data and they allegedly protect it." Um, I would not load up like what I ate for lunch yesterday to Meta. I have to say, I mean, except for Instagram and threads, which I use largely for marketing. Um, I got to say, I'm not loading a damn thing up to this person because of the way it
• 51:00 - 51:30 was used and the lack of any guard rails. I I would never use their AI app. I don't know how you feel about it, but you're very you're much more promiscuous in loading up your information. So, yeah, my attitude is violate my privacy as long as I can see that my QX60 is one minute away. I I could just get high. I could just eat edibles and order Ubers and watch how close my car is. I find it [ __ ] fascinating. Why is he making a right turn on broom? Doesn't he know where he's going? Maps. I find that [ __ ] fascinating. And occasionally I have a
• 51:30 - 52:00 moment I'm like, how do they know? Like I, you know, how do they know I have prostate itis? How are they know? I mean, I find this [ __ ] fascinating. Mine is food po food food porn like people making food. uh tool tips tip like little hacks hardware hacks and Mission Impossible Mission Impossible Dockers which is coming out May 23rd and I'm going by myself just so everybody knows do not speak to me on May 23rd I'm going to see the final reckoning and I'm going to probably see it twice but go ahead
• 52:00 - 52:30 Scott. So so what do you think about this this this app? Are you going to use it? You probably will. Look, I I am I'm I'm do a talk. I was just in Hamburg, Germany, and I do a talk on that everyone want everyone wanted to know had two, you know, questions really around two topics in the Q&A. What the [ __ ] is going on in America and they want to know about AI and I've said I'm an AI optimist for the most part. I don't think it's going to turn on us. I don't see any reason why AI can't be
• 52:30 - 53:00 used to create defensive measures against offensive measures. I don't think it's ever going to become sentient. I think in the short run it'll destroy jobs, but like every other technology, it'll create, in my opinion, more jobs than it destroys over the medium and the long term. The biggest threat of AI is that it's going to speedball loneliness, and that is I'm I'm frustrated. I can't I don't have friends. I I can't figure out the social pecking order. I I am really upset. I don't have a girlfriend. So, I have this
• 53:00 - 53:30 incredible uh AI girlfriend that's a mix of porn and maybe I even have an AI robot sex doll and I never develop the skills or take the risk to establish a romantic relationship. And this is the fear. This is what young men have fighting against them is they have the deepest pocketed most talented people in the world trying to convince them they can have a reasonable faximile of life with no human contact. You need you need So you're not concerned with loading your stuff up, which is my question. Well, okay, it's too late for me. And not only that, quite frankly, I have
• 53:30 - 54:00 economic security and people who love me unconditionally. So I I'm there. I'm at the promised land. What I'm worried about is young men who are struggling to find a connection to school, to work, or to other people and get a reasonable fact similarly of that dopa hit that you get from a relationship from Reddit, Discord, porn, Robin Hood. Oh, I'm I'm not gambling. I'm investing. And they spend all of their time in their basement never going through the hardship of trying to make agree relationships work. Let me say we have to move on. But Scott, every Scott will
• 54:00 - 54:30 be everybody's friend. Next friend, just so you know, Scott is everybody's friend. I'm very unfriendly, but Scott will be everybody's friend. Um, okay. Uh, I'm not using that app. That's all I'm saying. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions, including one more listener prediction. We're going to do a prediction now. Scott, I'm going to do a very brief one. They're giving out Golden Globes for best podcast next year. I think we need to win even though we're not in the top. You have to be in the top 25 to be in it. Um, we have to get to the top. Top 25 most listened.
• 54:30 - 55:00 Yes. Apparently some crazy right-wingers that are in the top 25. I know that. Exactly. So, we need to we need to What about the top 25 revenue? Because the thing is the people who listen to those people don't have any money unless they're like looking for dental implants or like trucker hats. So we need to kiss up to the Golden Globe people. All those foreigners to tariff them. Let's threaten to tariff awards ceremonies. We want to come. We are so much fun at a party. We would have such a we would be so good at a Golden Globe. We will drink. We will cause problems etc. et so
• 55:00 - 55:30 much is doing a lot of work there. But okay, you fall asleep on the couch. Everyone's wondering who the nine-year-old boy who is asleep on the couch. And everyone's like, who's the guy just at the bar who won't leave? That's correct. Um and as I said, I will be at Mission Impossible. One thing I will I'm going to do a quick prediction. I was talking to the people at Aurora, which is the self-driving um trucks, right? Um everyone's focused on self-driving cars, but these driverless runs of trucks, they're now going to on every day between Dallas in Houston. Um
• 55:30 - 56:00 I just think that's something that isn't focused in on. Um they hauled pastries. The first driver is hauled transported pastries. This is an area nobody's paying attention to. I think that is the real money is is that kind of stuff cuz that's where it's going to be. That's where we really do need these these driverless things going on. Um and I'm I'm excited by driverless cars in cities. I am personally, but I think that's where the big money is going to be. That's where you should be focusing in on if you're interested in the sector. All right, Scott, make a
• 56:00 - 56:30 prediction. uh this first 100 days of the Trump administration mostly using the vehicle of the Trump coin will go down in history is the greatest grift in the history of our economy in terms of the amount of money stolen and the size of it over the shortest period billions. Just some just some data here. Uh so Trump affiliated entities have made at least $300 million. This is distinct to the value of his stake in Trumpcoin in trading fees. The Trump family's net worth has increased by $3 billion or a
• 56:30 - 57:00 billion dollars a month since he took um he took office. Just some timeline, the Trump coin launched on a Friday night under cover of dark with all the news about the inauguration. By 3:00 a.m. on Sunday, it was valued at more than 70 billion. And there were a small number of coins uh small number of investors who made large investments on a Friday. Maybe they got a tip or something. They made they made tens if not hundreds of millions and then over the course of the next couple weeks about 800,000 smaller
• 57:00 - 57:30 investors lost billions. So that's the Melaniacoin one. The Melania coin two dozen traders made us almost hundred million the weekend it came out. Right. So, one person uh uh 64 seconds invested almost a million dollars 64 seconds before the project was publicly announced and with within 24 hours had made 40 million. But since then, Melania has lost 96% of its value. Sure has. And
• 57:30 - 58:00 this market manipulation, this what would technically be called insider trading by the SEC. We'll never know because on April 8th, Trump's deputy attorney general ordered the DOJ's crypto fraud investigation arm to disband. Mhm. The next day, the the next day on April 9th, the same day that Treasury Secretary Scott Bassant affirmed that it was Main Street's turn to get wealthy, Trump posted on Truth Social, "This is a great time to buy Donald Trump Media at 9:37 a.m. Between
• 58:00 - 58:30 1 and 1:10 p.m., there was a huge increase in bullish zeroday uh S&P 500 call options. And then just 8 minutes later, uh, Trump announced a 90-day pause on all of his tariffs and the market soared almost 10%. One of the biggest one day gains in history. So, someone knew what was going on. Of course they do. He calls them. Like, it's called inside That's called insider trading. The market gained $4 trillion while Trump Media closed up 23%. Trump's 53% ownership stake in the company uh
• 58:30 - 59:00 increased his net worth by 415 million. On April 23rd, Trump announced that the top holders of the Trump coin would win an exclusive dinner with him in the coin surge over 60%. A small group of investors have generated massive returns. Just 58 wallets made more than 10 million a piece totaling approximately 1.1 billion in gains. Meanwhile, 800,000 wallets of mostly smaller holders have lost money on the Trump coin. And this isn't just a vessel
• 59:00 - 59:30 for corruption. It's an open invitation for foreign manipulations. Threearters of the token value held among the top 220 wallets are believed to be held by foreign owners. So, if he's hosting a dinner for for his Trump pack and it costs a million and a half dollars and say you're hungry and you want to get rid of these tariffs, don't you pay someone have someone a proxy go spend the million and a half bucks and go, "Oh, just FYI, let the
• 59:30 - 60:00 president know as a gift to him, we're going to buy $50 million in Trumpcoin this week, which will increase the value somewhere between half a billion and a billion, which means he'll get somewhere between 4 and 800 million. And we're really hoping he's kind to us around the terrorists. I I agree. I've been talking to a lot of investigative reporters right now. And by the way, a lot of techies are keeping tabs of this stuff. I have to say a in a couple of years there's going to be a massive investigation. He'll probably be not too old to put him in
• 60:00 - 60:30 jail for it. But boy is this a grift. You're absolutely right. Well, it gets worse. Now the the kids run on it. World Liberty Financial crypto firm run by Trump's sons, Eric and Don Jr. uh 60% of it is owned by Trump affiliated entity and they are entitled to 75% of its revenue. It's raised more than a half a billion dollars from investors who purchased the um World Liberty Financial Governance token and now it's being leveraged to facilitate pardons for criminals. Justin's son, a crypto
• 60:30 - 61:00 billionaire, was under SEC investigation for securities fraud under the Biden administration after investing 75 million in World Liberty Financial. Guess what, Cara? The SEC dismissed his case. That's correct. This is a This is a crash. We We have to move on, but it it is really This is the story I keep telling reporters and you've talked about it quite a lot. This is the story. The the the absolute kleptocracy, and it's in plain sight. Absolutely. But this is what this is what [ __ ] infuriates. I'm a real politic guy. I
• 61:00 - 61:30 don't mind a little bit of corruption as long as it's good for all Americans. I don't mind a little bit of strongarmming. But here's the problem or the tragedy. If Trump bought h if Trump brought half the competence, expertise, and elegance to governance as he does to grifting, the country would be in a much better place. We have a mob family running the country. That's the bad news. The worst thing The worst thing is that Michael Corleó is managing the
• 61:30 - 62:00 crime and Fredo is managing the government. Yeah. It's like for God's sakes, that's a good analogy. You are you are so good at stealing. Yeah. Can you bring some of that elegance, that timing, that expert, that expertise to the government, to actual government usually is in charge of our [ __ ] military right now. And Michael Corleó is in charge of the Trump coin. So I forgive everything if you take the people managing your grift and put them in charge of our military. And we do not
• 62:00 - 62:30 want Eric Trump. But you get my point. This is just Yeah, I get it. But they're not even smart. I don't even think they're smart. I think they're stupid and they're just putting their bag out and say, "Put money in here." Mobsters are notoriously stupid. They just are just muscle. And that's what's happening here. Anyways, the prediction is the biggest grift in history is happening as we sit here right now. In 5 years, 10 years, when this all comes out, and it will, this will be the greatest grift in an economy over a shorter period of time that has ever taken place. This will
• 62:30 - 63:00 make Putin blush. Yep. Absolutely. Okay, Scott, you've made your prediction. Now, it's time to hear one last one from a listener. This one is super serious, so please try to focus. Okay, let's play it. Uh, this is Mike from Oakland, California. And I think my prediction is if Scott isn't already shaving his balls, he's going to start doing that because I think there's nothing more depressing than gray ball hair. Um, and that's really my prediction.
• 63:00 - 63:30 Okay. Uh, I am speechless. Uh, excellent. I occasionally clip my whole body so I can feel like a jungle cat and then I put lotion all over my body and I just love me. Yeah, I'm not a big I'm not a big manscaper. I like Big Ed and the twins have a little bit of a beard. Yeah, I got to say it's a big business. It's a big business. No, they have good names. They all have such good names. all those manscaping things. They have really funny um brand names. Anyway, I don't
• 63:30 - 64:00 see how I know this, but I do. My junk looks like like an aging anteater. It just looks sad. Okay. It just looks sad. Well, I don't know what to say that, but Scott is speechless, which is excellent. Thank you, Mike. Yeah. All right. We want to hear I think clipping is good. Keep it clean for the ladies, Scott. Keep it clean for the ladies. This is what I tell my sons. Keep it Keep it clean for the ladies. My wife came in or actually like came in on me while I was manscaping once and she asked me what I
• 64:00 - 64:30 was doing. I apparently meal prep was not the right answer. Okay. Keep it clean for the ladies. That's my advice to all men. All right. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business. Ladies and men, let me be clear. We want to hear from you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe this week, uh this week on PropG conversations, Scott spoke with Anne Applebomb, one of my favorites, Pula
• 64:30 - 65:00 surprise winning historian. So good and she's so good and staff trader at the Atlantic. Let's listen to a clip. Donald Trump is somebody who's constantly seeking to shape reality to his own benefit and he feels no need to to be accurate. And so anybody who does, anyone who cares about telling the truth or or who cares about making policy based on reality and not on this fiction that that Trump promotes is uncomfortable. And that means that all the people around him are either
• 65:00 - 65:30 manipulable and they're willing to just do whatever he says or they're people who have made a big a kind of moral sacrifice, you know, who who are doing something they know to be wrong. Hello, Marco Rubio. Ann is terrific and that's I can see why you're in the grift mode right now because she talks about this a lot. She's an expert on this. I love her. I love her. I love when I love when unfortunately I'm like it's it's terrible she's having a moment. It's like if someone writes about famine I hope they don't have a moment but she is having a moment. She is she's great and
• 65:30 - 66:00 well worth reading. Uh okay that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Larara Nemans, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Bernie Rad engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrough, Mia Sabaro, and Dan Shalon. Yach Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week
• 66:00 - 66:30 for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Cara, what economic theory opposes manscaping? Lazy fur. Golden globe. Golden globe winner for best podcast.