The "Humbitious" Leader (Replay)

Summary

In this compelling replay episode of the "Human Capital Podcast," host Jeff Hunt revisits a discussion with Dr. Amer Kaisi about the intriguing concept of "humbitious" leadership. The conversation dives deep into how the right balance of humility and ambition can create impactful leaders. Through personal anecdotes and expert insights, Kaisi outlines the essential traits of effective leadership, offering listeners a perspective on cultivating humility without compromising on the drive for success. The episode is both a reflective and practical guide for anyone in leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of connection, self-awareness, and continuous learning.

Highlights

• Dr. Amer Kaisi explains the essence of 'humbitious' leadership, fusing humility with ambition 🌟.
• Personal stories reveal role models like Kaisi's mother, embodying strength through humility and ambition 🎓.
• Discusses how humility involves recognizing one’s strengths and limitations while remaining open to learning and feedback 📚.
• Examples of global leaders like Jacinda Ardern illustrate the power of compassionate yet decisive leadership 🌍.
• Mindfulness is shown to be a valuable tool in developing patience and better decision-making under pressure 🕊️.

Key Takeaways

• Successful leadership requires a balance of humility and ambition—the sweet spot between ego and drive 🤝.
• Humility in leadership is not a sign of weakness; rather, it is a powerful tool when accompanied by strong ambition 💪.
• Competence is essential for credibility in leadership; humility needs to be balanced with expertise for trust 🚀.
• Practicing mindfulness and self-reflection can strengthen leadership abilities and create a more composed leader 🧘‍♂️.
• Empathy and compassion are crucial traits of a successful leader—they help in connecting deeply with teams and stakeholders ❤️.

Overview

In this insightful episode replay, Jeff Hunt delves into the compelling narrative of 'humbitious' leadership with Dr. Amer Kaisi. As a cherished guest, Kaisi combines his expertise as an executive coach and author to unravel the dynamics of leading with humility coupled with determined ambition. Through thoughtful discussions and illustrative examples, listeners are primed to embrace leadership that values connection and authenticity.

With a rich tapestry of personal anecdotes, Kaisi shares his journey and influences, including the profound impact of his mother’s leadership during his formative years. These stories demonstrate the power of humility and ambition as complementary forces, underscoring how these traits can be cultivated within leaders across all levels. This episode challenges the traditional perceptions of leadership, presenting a more nuanced and effective approach to guiding teams.

Moreover, the conversation touches on progressive leadership practices such as mindfulness and self-reflection. With practical advice, Kaisi illustrates how these practices can enhance an individual's leadership profile, fostering a culture of growth and resilience. Whether you’re new to leadership or seeking to refine your approach, this episode serves as a rich resource for nurturing a balanced, humbitious leadership style.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction and Reflection The author, Jeff, is taking a short break from his podcast and is reflecting on what people desire most in their work environment. Regardless of one's role - be it a manager, employee, or executive - the fundamental need is to feel seen and heard. Jeff recalls an episode from the previous year that effectively addressed these competencies, particularly from a leadership perspective.
• 00:30 - 02:30: Replay Announcement and Upcoming Guests In this chapter, the host announces the replay of an episode featuring Amer Kaisi, focusing on his book 'Ambitious: The Power of Low Ego, High Drive Leadership.' The episode was chosen due to the impactful themes of the book, which align with qualities like humility and ambition, especially in leadership contexts. If employees feel seen and heard at work, it's often because their manager demonstrates these traits. The host elaborates on the concept of humility, emphasizing it beyond traditional perceptions.
• 02:30 - 03:00: Episode Introduction The chapter discusses the concept of strength that comes from humility and vulnerability, distinguishing it from self-deprecating humility. It emphasizes a form of ambition that does not harm others or compromise relationships, but instead sets a positive example.
• 03:00 - 04:00: Arrogance vs. Humility in Leadership The chapter "Arrogance vs. Humility in Leadership" emphasizes the importance of leadership qualities grounded in trust and integrity. The focus is on consistently doing what one promises and reflecting on past learnings. It suggests revisiting prior content for deeper understanding and highlights the need for continuous reminders to reinforce knowledge more than learning new things.
• 04:00 - 05:00: Interview with Dr. Amer Kaisi The chapter features an interview with Dr. Amer Kaisi and introduces two upcoming guests on the show. These guests are Chris Scalia, the Senior Vice President and CHRO at the Hershey Company, who manages over 19,000 employees, and Gloria Mark, the author of a book titled 'Attention Span,' which discusses restoring balance, happiness, and productivity. Both books are recommended on the Human Capital Podcast website.
• 05:00 - 06:00: Dr. Amer Kaisi's Career Journey This chapter introduces the theme of the podcast episode which focuses on the balance of ambition and humility in leadership. It sets the stage for a discussion on how these qualities manifest separately in the workplace.
• 06:00 - 10:00: Inspiration from Family This chapter discusses the balance of humility and drive in leadership. It highlights the dangers of arrogance, as seen in many leaders on the global stage, and contrasts this with the rarity of leaders who possess humility without drive. The chapter emphasizes the significance of strong leadership characterized by both traits in making a positive impact on organizations.
• 10:00 - 16:00: Defining Humility The chapter explores the balance between humility and ambition, particularly in leadership. It discusses how society values leaders who embody both traits, using insights from Dr. Amer Kaisi, an expert in the field. His book 'ambitious' focuses on this balance, highlighting the importance of being both humble and ambitious. The chapter may include Dr. Kaisi's experiences as an author and executive coach, providing examples of effective leadership.
• 16:00 - 22:00: Examples of Humbitious Leaders The chapter titled 'Examples of Humbitious Leaders' features insights from a keynote speaker and professor at Trinity University, who specializes in leadership, public speaking, and strategic planning. The discussion centers around the traits of high-performing leaders, highlighting characteristics such as humility, resilience, agility, compassion, and kindness. Opening remarks include gratitude for the opportunity to discuss these qualities and an introduction to the professor's new book on the subject.
• 22:00 - 27:00: Competency and Humility The chapter titled 'Competency and Humility' opens with a speaker recounting their career journey, beginning with their birth in Beirut, Lebanon during the Lebanese Civil War. Despite the challenges of growing up during such tumultuous times, the speaker embarked on a career in public health, illustrating their educational path, starting with an undergraduate degree in the field. The narrative is designed to provide listeners with insights into the speaker's background and the influences that have shaped their professional life.
• 27:00 - 30:00: Learning Humility The chapter 'Learning Humility' revolves around an individual's journey in the field of education and healthcare administration. The person initially pursued a master's degree in healthcare administration but always had a passion for teaching, particularly at the university level. This aspiration led to enrolling at the University of Minnesota to pursue a PhD in healthcare administration. Despite the challenging weather in Minnesota, the experience there was rewarding. Following the completion of the PhD, the individual took up a teaching position at Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas.
• 30:00 - 34:00: Mindfulness and Leadership The chapter titled 'Mindfulness and Leadership' begins with a narrative of personal experience, highlighting a move to Texas in 2003 and an appreciation for the time spent at Trinity, working with students and colleagues. It touches on the various roles and responsibilities assumed, including teaching, research, and attending meetings. Beyond these, it also notes the individual's pursuits as a professional speaker, executive coach, and book author, though it leaves unfinished an explanation of who inspired them.
• 34:00 - 36:00: Math Equations on Leadership Traits The chapter discusses leadership traits through the lens of the author's mother. It highlights her mother's decision to defy societal norms of 1960s Beirut by choosing a path different from the expected role of waiting for an arranged marriage. Instead, she took an active role in shaping her life path.
• 36:00 - 40:00: Lightning Round and Q&A In the chapter "Lightning Round and Q&A," the speaker discusses the story of their mother, who had the ambition to go to college and become a lawyer. Despite societal norms in the 1960s Middle East, she persisted in her ambition, eventually convincing her initially reluctant father to allow her to attend law school, from which she graduated in 1965.
• 40:00 - 41:00: Book Recommendations This chapter explores the career transition of a woman who graduated with a law degree in the 1960s in Beirut. Despite her significant achievement, she found law too dry and decided against practicing it. Instead, she was drawn to a more fulfilling role at a large non-profit organization dedicated to caring for orphans and children with special needs, where she found her true calling.
• 41:00 - 43:00: Conclusion and Takeaways The chapter 'Conclusion and Takeaways' highlights a person's journey in caregiving, which begins with working directly with children in need. Her compassionate nature leads to promotions, ultimately becoming the executive director of the main campus. Her managerial skills are highlighted, suggesting she had the capability to succeed in any field she chose.

The "Humbitious" Leader (Replay) Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 hey everyone this is Jeff as I take a short sabbatical from a few episodes of the podcast I'm reflecting on what people want most at work it doesn't matter whether you're a manager or an employee or an executive what most people want is simply to be seen and heard at work and as I was thinking about this I was remembering an episode from last year that speaks very clearly to these important competencies especially from a leadership context
• 00:30 - 01:00 I've decided to replay this episode from Amer kaisi because I loved his book which is titled ambitious the power of low ego High Drive Leadership now if you feel seen and heard at work most likely you have a manager that embodies these qualities of humility and ambition and when I talk about humility I'm not talking about it from a place of
• 01:00 - 01:30 weakness but a place of strength so this is really when we're self-assured and confident in a way that allows us to be humble and vulnerable and that's very different than self-deprecating humility and when we're talking about ambition this is not the type of ambition that walks all over people in order to get what you want it's not the type of ambition that compromises relationship this type of ambition sets an example
• 01:30 - 02:00 for others that's grounded in trust and integrity we do what we say we're going to do and we try to do it every time so if you didn't hear this episode last year I hope you give it a listen and you learn something new if you've already heard it I hope you're willing to give it another listen to see what you may have missed from the first time around if you're like me you need to be reminded a lot more than you need to be taught before I replay this episode I'm very
• 02:00 - 02:30 excited to share about two guests that are coming up on the show Chris Scalia who is a senior vice president and chro at the Hershey Company is responsible for over 19 000 employees and also Gloria Mark who has written a great book called attention span a groundbreaking way to restore balance happiness and productivity both of these books are on my books list on our human capital podcast website
• 02:30 - 03:00 so without further Ado here's the replay episode and I hope you enjoy it welcome to the human capital podcast from goalspan I'm Jeff Hunt I love the opportunity on each episode to have Rich conversations as we unpack the deeply human aspect of work today we're going to talk about both ambition and humility when these leadership qualities show up separately
• 03:00 - 03:30 instead of together it can create huge problems how many arrogant leaders have you seen that have stepped on people on the way to the top unfortunately we have many examples of this today on the world stage in both business and politics conversely how many strong leaders do you see that only embody humility without drive my guess is not many as we think about the best leaders the ones making a significant positive impact on the organizations they serve
• 03:30 - 04:00 and Society at large they have the right balance of both humility and ambition these are the leaders people genuinely want to follow today I'm honored to speak with an expert in this space Dr Amer kaisi combines the terms humble and ambitious in the title of his newly released book called ambitious Amir is not only an author of several books but he's also an executive coach
• 04:00 - 04:30 keynote speaker and Professor who teaches graduate level courses and Leadership public speaking and strategic planning at Trinity University his new book focuses on the traits of high performing leaders such as humility resilience agility compassion and kindness welcome Amir hey Jeff thanks for having me I appreciate it thanks for giving up time in your busy schedule to meet with me I would love to start our conversation by having you give our
• 04:30 - 05:00 listeners a thumbnail of your career Journey and share a little bit about who may have inspired you along the way yeah it's it's my pleasure to be here I was born in Beirut Lebanon Lebanon is a small country in the Middle East and I grew up during the Lebanese Civil War which which is another story by itself but more on the educational professional side you know my background is in public health I did an undergrad in public health and
• 05:00 - 05:30 a master's in healthcare administration but for some reason I always knew that I wanted to teach and I wanted to teach at um the university level ended up coming to the University of Minnesota to pursue a PhD in healthcare administration and really enjoyed my time there despite the weather obviously in Minnesota but had a great experience and then after I finished I took a job at Trinity University in San Antonio Texas so we
• 05:30 - 06:00 moved to Texas in 2003 and I've been here ever since I loved every minute of of being at Trinity and and working with students and and you know my my colleagues I do all the things that professors do you know teaching and research and go to meetings and all of that but but as you mentioned in the introduction you know I do some things on the side such as being a professional speaker an executive coach and and a book author to answer the question about who inspired me the
• 06:00 - 06:30 most I'd say that person is my mother and and I'd like to tell a little bit about my mother and her story um you know she was she was the oldest of five and and she grew up in Beirut as well you know when she finished high school back in 1960 it would have been totally normal if she had waited for her parents to find her a perfectly good husband and for her to you know stay at home but instead my mom told her father my
• 06:30 - 07:00 grandpa that she wanted to go to college you know college for a female in the 1960s in the country in the Middle East you know that was that was unusual but she had big Ambitions and she wanted to become a lawyer now my grandfather resisted a little bit at first you know what will people say about us you know stuff like that but she kept on asking until he finally relented so my mother went to law school and got her degree in 1965.
• 07:00 - 07:30 and you think about it for a minute you know a female with a law degree back in the 1960s in Beirut that was a big deal now when she graduated she realized that she didn't want to practice law it was too dry for her she had a friend that was working at a large not-for-profit organization that took care of Orphans and kids with special needs and her friend told her hey come and work with us and she started working there as a
• 07:30 - 08:00 direct caregiver taking care of the kids and she realized that working with kids in Need Just greatly appealed to her humble and empathetic nature and then she got promoted to you know supervisor and manager of the unit and then executive director of the whole main campus and my mother was was an excellent manager I remember going with her to work and and seeing her in meetings and observing her and she probably could have worked anywhere she wanted with her
• 08:00 - 08:30 degree she surely would have made way more money than not for profit and probably less hours I mean the hours that she put at the orphanage were very long she I remember clearly you know she worked Mondays to Saturdays from 7 30 A.M to 6 30 pm and she worked almost every holiday and I used to talk to her about it and I would ask her you know why you're doing this and she would say you know my reward for for this job is not Financial
• 08:30 - 09:00 it's in seeing kids who have no one being taken care of feeling safe and feeling happy and she did all of that while being a great wife and a great mother my memory of her has waking up her waking up at 4 30 a.m every morning to make sure to prepare meals so that when we came back from school we you know we had dinner ready for us she did that day in and day out for 50 years until she finally retired in 2015.
• 09:00 - 09:30 so I I like to share that um you know example and role model of my mom because I believe she was truly humble she she knew herself very well she appreciated the kids that she worked with and that she served but she was never perceived as weak or passive she was very ambitious she had high expectations of herself and of others and and she helped people accountable
• 09:30 - 10:00 but again no one saw her as intimidating or aggressive she she was loved and she was respected as a leader she was someone that I I would call a ambitious leader wow you are truly blessed to have such an inspiration in your life and I'm just reflecting on my intro how some of the qualities that I described from your new book which is really includes things like resilience and Agility uh compassion it sounds like she's a very
• 10:00 - 10:30 compassionate person very hard-working person are really the embodiment of what is going on in your book as well right absolutely yeah absolutely sometimes we we you know we have those seeds in us from from our appearance or from our bringing and you know growing up you don't realize I I never thought about her as as a great leader and all of that but but later on in my career when I started studying these traits academically and looking at the research I went back and I thought to myself I'm
• 10:30 - 11:00 like wow I had that example of leadership right there in front of my eyes through throughout my whole childhood it's really remarkable so to get a little bit pragmatic Amer set the table for our conversation and Define humility for us because I think people arrive at this word from different places and definitions so what's your definition you're absolutely right Jeff people have different interpretations and sometimes misinterpretations of humility so in in
• 11:00 - 11:30 the context of leadership I think of it as consisting of three main building blocks the first building block is how you understand yourself the second building block is how you understand your relationship with others and then the third one is how you understand your place in the universe so if we start with the first block which is how you understand yourself that includes things such as self-awareness self-reflection vulnerability
• 11:30 - 12:00 because the humility first and foremost is about having an accurate view of yourself Robert Evans who is a professor of psychology at the University of California Davis said something very eloquently he said to be humble is not to have a low opinion of oneself it's to have an accurate opinion of oneself so as a humble smart leader you know you should recognize that you are smart you
• 12:00 - 12:30 should recognize that you have skills and abilities but you should also recognize that you're not smarter than everyone else or smarter than the collective intelligence of the group that you are leading you know you may appreciate that you have expertise in a certain area let's say strategy or Finance but he also acknowledge that you don't know everything about strategy and finance and you still have a lot to learn so that first block of humility is
• 12:30 - 13:00 not about deflating or inflating your abilities for your status it's about understanding them just the way they are so that's the first block the second block as we said is about understanding your relationship with others and this includes aspects such as open-mindedness appreciation of others as well as generosity and how you deal with others you know once you're aware of your
• 13:00 - 13:30 personal limitations then you can be more open to new ideas and ways of thinking and you become more willing to learn from others you ask for advice you seek and listen to honest feedback and you even solicit contradictory views you want people to prove you wrong you know this this quality in in the humility literature that I've been studying for the last few years is called teachability
• 13:30 - 14:00 it's the willingness to admit ignorance to appreciate others contributions and and to learn from them and it's really about showing up with the mindset that I am not here to prove myself I'm here to improve myself there's a there's a huge difference between how you show up if you're there to prove yourself all the time versus you're there to improve yourself and that leads us to the third block
• 14:00 - 14:30 which is understanding your place in the universe now we call that Transcendence so that's a little bit deeper and and may sound a little bit out there you know but it's actually very important because the truly humble leaders that I've talked to and that I've observed and I've coached are aware of their insignificance in the world you may have worked with your team let's say and and you're creating a brand new product or service and it's going to
• 14:30 - 15:00 significantly increase revenue for the organization for years to come and of course it's it's it's a big deal but in the grand scheme of things you know your impact as one a human being is always going to be insignificant and you need to be aware of that now this could be sometimes misunderstood as a call to surrender or to laziness or to link relinquishing action but it's not that it's about
• 15:00 - 15:30 understanding your small role but still doing it to the best of your abilities in a humble and ambitious way right you may not matter in the grand scheme of things but you have an important role to play in your small corner of the universe I believe it was Gandhi who said whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it's important that you do it because nobody else will so this would this this would be how I understand
• 15:30 - 16:00 um humility in the context of leadership and it sounds like what you're saying is it's a variable mindset it's a growth mindset it's not fixed it allows teachability and open-mindedness but I'm also hearing you say Amer that it is also not about self-deprecation it's approaching humility from a place of strength not from a place of weakness so when we are self-assured and confident then we have
• 16:00 - 16:30 the opportunity to be humble and vulnerable in a way that is much different and more effective and engaging compared with those that are approaching humility from a place that isn't of strength is that correct I I love how you put it there approaching it from from a place of strength I couldn't have said it better myself you're absolutely right about this overlap with the growth mindset you know people who are familiar with with Carol dweck's
• 16:30 - 17:00 work will remember the growth mindset versus the fixed mindset and I believe there's a lot of commonalities between that thinking and the thinking about humility back to the point about proving and improving you know the people who have the fixed mindset are there in every interaction every meeting every situation in their life just want to prove themselves right whereas the people with the growth mindset are there because they want to improve they believe that whoever they're talking to they can learn something from that
• 17:00 - 17:30 person and and they go into conversations with with curiosity and with humility you mentioned some examples of uh ambitious leaders like Gandhi what are some other well-known examples of ambitious leaders you know I'm not sure how well known this example for for the audience here in in North America but but it's one that I talk about in the book and it's the example of Jacinda Arden and and for the audience who's not
• 17:30 - 18:00 familiar with with her she was elected prime minister of New Zealand back in 2017. and she became the youngest female leader in the world now typically when a Junior leader emerges on the scene especially a female Junior leader there are doubts there's skepticism from the established order right will she live up to the challenges they start asking asking and whispering and the challenges came at Jason Darden thick and fast a couple of years into her
• 18:00 - 18:30 Administration if you recall a lone terrorist in the town of Christ Church walked into the two different places of worship and killed 55 innocent people I mean this is New Zealand that the land you know the Serene land you know you imagine that you think of of you know Green Mountains and and white sheep and all of that and and it was a shock I mean they were shocked and the world was shocked now what I studied is her reaction to the attacks because her reaction was
• 18:30 - 19:00 textbook ambitious leadership first she showed up with humility for the families of the victims she sat down in their living rooms and listened to them and supported them she showed them empathy and she showed them love and she did that in private without trying to get attention or credit but a couple of weeks later when that morning period was over she went to Parliament right away and she demanded that they passed gun control laws now I
• 19:00 - 19:30 don't want to get into the politics of gun control Lots that's that's besides the point but the point was that she was so decisive and brave and the law was signed in a few days so we see how she balanced that humility and that ambition and with that she earned the admiration and and the respect of the citizens of New Zealand and and all over the world not long after that covid-19 hit right here again her leadership was put at the
• 19:30 - 20:00 test and here again she was truly remarkable with with the covet pandemic first she started with decisiveness and action because there was no time to wait she swiftly closed the country's borders imposed an immediate lockdown again we can argue with or against these policies but that's not what what we're discussing here but then she balanced that action and that decisiveness with the humility and empathy as she showed up every single night on live TV and on social media to
• 20:00 - 20:30 talk to average citizens and to answer their questions she assured them that the government had their backs and that it would support them financially as they went through the crisis it is no exaggeration to say that New Zealand and Jacinda Arden passed the pandemic test with flying colors I remember I was tracking it back in June of 2020. remember this is 2020. and New Zealand was the only country in
• 20:30 - 21:00 the world with zero Active cases of covet 19. zero I remember that yeah and and you know she says that one of the criticisms that she's faced over the years is that people think that she's not aggressive enough or maybe because she's empathetic people think she's weak she says I totally rebel against that I refuse to believe that you cannot be compassionate and strong this is not an either or proposition this is a yes and
• 21:00 - 21:30 you can be both compassionate and strong humble and ambitious it seems like it's a matter of connecting and engaging with the people and stakeholders around you regardless of what organization or country you're running and doing that with empathy and compassion and then also being collaborative in your decision-making approach and direct so we're not waiting too long we're actually taking action and combining those two makes for a great leader it sounds like absolutely Jeff you know you start by
• 21:30 - 22:00 saying they're connecting with the people that you are leading with the stakeholders right if you go back to the origin of the the word humility it actually comes from the Latin word humus h-u-m-u-s not to be confused with hummus the Lebanese there right yeah that that's that's Arabic so so the Latin word means close to the ground or close to the Earth that's what humus meant for them and when we take that and apply it within the context of leadership it fits
• 22:00 - 22:30 perfectly well because that leadership style is about all about connecting with the people that you are leading you don't lead from an ivory Tower or from a corner office you lead from the front line by being right there right then with the people that you are leading talk a little bit of Mayor about the contrast of Competency versus humility so I know you could have a humble leader
• 22:30 - 23:00 but what if the competency is not there yes that's a very insightful question and I would say they go hand in hand you have to be competent first it's a non-negotiable you have to know your stuff you have to have the knowledge the skills and the abilities and the areas that you are leading you know we we said earlier that humble leaders understand their weaknesses and admit their limitations but they also need to strive
• 23:00 - 23:30 to achieve a high level of technical competence again I I believe this is a non-negotiable for leaders because you will lose all your credibility if you show serious flaws in necessary job related skills you know I I um train people who become Healthcare administrators right a nurse manager for example cannot show humility to their team unless they display a deep proficiency and understanding the protocols of patient
• 23:30 - 24:00 care for example right you have to know your stuff and and the research supports that you know there's one study conducted by by Brad Owens at BYU they looked at this synergistic interaction between humility and competence and the results showed that team members felt free to experiment with new ideas and performed very highly on important tasks only when their leaders were both humble and competent when the leaders
• 24:00 - 24:30 were just humble and not competent the team members did not perform as well so yes I think it's important to say every now and then I don't know and to admit that you haven't faced the situation before but if you're doing that every day and in every situation you're losing your credibility as a leader so I I love that question because it's very important to emphasize that you can't be a ambitious
• 24:30 - 25:00 leader without showing that competence first it feels like the competency is the directly correlated to the undergirding of both trust and respect so if my if the person I'm following this leader has the competency then only then am I able to trust their decision-making capability and respect them is that
• 25:00 - 25:30 correct that's such a great connection and it reminds me of of that great book called The Speed Of Trust You Know Stephen Covey the the sun um he talks about trust in terms of people trusting you you know you you will trust me if you trust two things about me if you trust my character and my competence now the character part is the hamiltonian ambition we're talking about and it's necessary but it's not sufficient you also have to trust my
• 25:30 - 26:00 competence that I have the skills to do what I'm saying I'm going to do and that I've demonstrated that in the past is it possible to learn how to be humble yes I believe so you know otherwise I I wouldn't have written the book and I wouldn't have taken on the role of an executive coach however I I would I would start with this I would say maybe there is five percent of people out there five percent that can never learn to be humble and these are what I would
• 26:00 - 26:30 describe as the extreme narcissists and and for these people it's it's only about me me me me and nothing can be done with them but for the other 95 of us the humility is like a muscle and I believe that we can develop the muscle and in the book I I you know highlight several practical and tangible ways that that leaders can work on both humility and ambition the the first practice that that I would start with is self-reflection with
• 26:30 - 27:00 purpose especially after a major success right we all enjoy successes in our careers it could be a promotion a salary bump an award that you want you know a pat on the back from the boss that's that's all great and we have to celebrate these we have to give ourselves credit but at the same time make sure to pause and Ponder some hard questions some of these questions may sound like you know who mentored me
• 27:00 - 27:30 who gave me my chances how many people on my team right now are doing such a great job and making me look great how did luck contribute to my success how did market conditions contribute to my success again as you said earlier this is not about self-deprecating this is not about deflating your success it's just about staying grounded and humble so that's one one practice I highly recommend the other one I'm sure you've heard this one before
• 27:30 - 28:00 and the audience have heard it and and obviously all of this stuff is is common sense it's just not commonly practiced right my my second advice is is listen to reply I mean listen to understand versus listen to reply when you really think about it listening to reply is self-centered if you and I are having a conversation and I'm listening to you so I can reply you know I can't wait for your mouth to stop moving so I can jump in because I want to show that I know I want to show
• 28:00 - 28:30 you my intelligence and and all the things that I've done right it's all about my ego but when I listen to understand I take myself out of the equation it's not about me anymore it's about you I put my ego on hold and I truly listen again I'm not trying to prove myself to you what I'm trying to improve myself I'm trying to learn from you with curiosity and humility so there are many
• 28:30 - 29:00 other practices you know highlighted in the book but but these two I believe would be a good place to start and will have a huge impact it feels like listening to understand is actually giving a gift to the person you're communicating with because what most people want more than anything else is simply to be heard correct wow what a great way to put it in listening to understand is giving a gift to the other person I I love how you
• 29:00 - 29:30 um articulated that and and I agree 100 percent the other thing I'm reflecting on Amer is the advice to pause and the connection to what can arise around self-awareness and even mindfulness which some people hear the word mindfulness and they think of this kind of woo-woo I don't want to touch that but is there a connection there as well yeah yeah there's there's this very
• 29:30 - 30:00 strong connection there you know let's talk about mindfulness a little bit in the context of leadership to kind of like the concept you know mindfulness is really just about paying attention in the present moment with a clear calm and focused mind now when people think about mindfulness maybe they have this image of a monk and a red robe you know sitting in a cave for days and all of that and while
• 30:00 - 30:30 that's definitely one way to attain mindfulness it is not the only way especially not in leadership you don't need to sit on a mat for hours or to go to a retreat in the mountains to to become a more mindful leader it's actually way simpler than that and it's something that that we coach leaders on you know at the essence of it mindfulness is about noticing your behavior while it's happening let's say you know you're in a meeting and there is a tough conversation going on you're pitching an idea you're making a
• 30:30 - 31:00 presentation but you know someone else is dismissing it or they start questioning you or your skills or your knowledge on the issue and the and the debate is getting heated right there is a real threat there and and you know as as you know the amygdala and our brain perceives it as a threat and is ready to take over and to hijack so you're about to lose your cool and maybe say something that you will regret later but that's where mindfulness comes in because you're able to separate
• 31:00 - 31:30 yourself from the situation just for a few seconds and instead of acting in the movie you're able to watch the movie right some people use the terminology you know instead of being Center Stage you can watch from the balcony and you see what's happening objectively you take a deep breath you pause maybe you take a sip of water you avoid that amygdala hijack and then you reply in a calm and intentional way
• 31:30 - 32:00 now that doesn't mean that you roll over and you allow the other party to to walk all over you but it means that whatever you do and whatever you say is under your control so you're absolutely right there is a big connection between that and and self-awareness if if you think about the last few times that I've lost my cool and that you've lost your cool you know if you take the time to think
• 32:00 - 32:30 about these times and and to reflect on them what you're gonna find is that there were there's something in common between these times and this is what we call our triggers right and and my triggers are going to be different than your triggers different than other people triggers I'll I'll share with me for example you know if I go back and look at the situations that have threatened me in the past or that I felt like this this is you know I lost my cool I said things
• 32:30 - 33:00 I later regret it the one thing in common between all of them was that I perceived lack of respect from the other person and the other person could be a colleague at work or my teenage kids or whatever it is right there's something in common but I needed to have this self-awareness to know what my triggers are and once I had that which was you know not something I reach on my own it was something that someone coached me on I started to think okay when I'm in that
• 33:00 - 33:30 situation I can be mindful that it's happening right there right then so someone says something which I perceive as lacking in respect towards me I don't react I pause again I I may take a deep breath I may take a sip of water I know that I'm being triggered but I collect my thoughts and only then after I calm down after I've seen the movie then I reply this type of mindfulness seems to help
• 33:30 - 34:00 us migrate away from a reactive state to one that's much more thoughtful that's exactly what it is sometimes people misinterpret that as as showing up as a robot and and as as if we're advising people to leave all emotions out of work and all of that and that is the total opposite what we're saying you 100 still need to bring your emotions to work but you are controlling the emotions you're not allowing the
• 34:00 - 34:30 emotions to control you so after that pause and after that mindfulness you can still reply in an angry way right but it's anger under control and it's very different it looks very different from anger that is not under control as as we both know one is productive and the other is not absolutely yes for sure okay I'm gonna ask you some math questions all right before we switch into lightning round all right so if you had
• 34:30 - 35:00 to come up with one word for the following equations what would they be the first one is ambition minus humility equals bulldozing jerk two terms sorry that works that works humility minus ambition equals humility minus ambition I would say selfless pushover and humility plus ambition
• 35:00 - 35:30 ambitious with long lasting results all right Amir let's shift into some lightning round questions I'd like to just ask you some some questions that you haven't heard you give me the top of Mind answer the first one I think will be easy for you it's what are you most grateful for very grateful for family for health for peace of mind very grateful right now to be talking to
• 35:30 - 36:00 you I believe you know gratefulness and gratitude can be about the big things like I just started with but it also can be gratitude right there in the moment this opportunity to be having this stimulating conversation right now and the opportunity to have my message heard by you know your your um listeners I'm grateful for that right right here right now what is the most difficult leadership lesson you've learned over your career I'd have to say I have to go back to to
• 36:00 - 36:30 what we were just talking about which is to not react in the moment and and I've been guilty of of doing that in the past and I I would think of the leadership concept not just in the professional life but in in our personal lives I believe we are also leaders in our personal lives you know I I like to think of myself as a leader with my kids for example you know I have I have two teenage kids and and um in aspects you know I lead them in
• 36:30 - 37:00 other aspects they lead me you know some of those difficult um lessons I've learned have been in situations where I wasn't mindful where I wasn't patient enough with myself and and with others and and maybe I reacted in a harsh way or said things that I regretted later and it's because we tend to be on autopilot most of the time so you know if if we're trying to distill the principle behind that I'd say the
• 37:00 - 37:30 principle is intentionality is to be intentional how you show up as a leader whether in your personal life or in your professional life and not to just rely on Instinct and you know justify it and say oh it's my personality I'm I'm I just react that's my personality that's how I do things that's not our personality you know that that's some that's a bad habit we fell into and we can change that that's an excuse isn't it absolutely
• 37:30 - 38:00 who is one person you would interview if you could living or not right now I would definitely take just in the Arden um as an interviewee um Angela Merkel if possible you know the German Chancellor um who who um just stepped away last year so maybe she has a little bit more time now so I'll be more than happy to interview her she's another great example of of humble leadership and then if I'm gonna add one more from
• 38:00 - 38:30 here in the US I would say coach Greg Popovich from the San Antonio Spurs great choices so I I'm gonna ask this next question but I'm gonna give you my answer first which is kind of ironic what's your top book recommendation I'm highly going to recommend humbitious to our listeners I'm in the middle of reading it and I love this book and I have a books list on my podcast website and we're adding that to the podcast website so if you go
• 38:30 - 39:00 to human capital to the podcast website and you look at my books list it'll be there but Amir what is your top book recommendation you know the funny thing about this is that every time I'm asked this question I give a different answer because it's so you read a lot yeah because I do read a lot because it's so hard to just stick with one because you think you have one and then you read others and you're like actually no this one so so you know this is going to be different from how I've answered this question in the past but
• 39:00 - 39:30 right now I would say there is there's a book called the top five regrets of the dying and it sounds a little bit morbid the title sounds a little bit morbid but but the the um the idea from the book is there is this um nurse who whose job was to take care of people who had chronic diseases and who were in the end of um you know it's it's called the palliative care nurse and and she lived in Australia and she did that
• 39:30 - 40:00 job for years and years and what she would do in those last few days is she tried to make the people as comfortable as they can be and she would have these deep conversations with them and what she noticed was that they all had regrets so she synthesized that into five top regrets of the dying and I'm not gonna ruin it for people I let them read the book but one of those regrets was that the people thought I wish I hadn't worked as hard as I did I wish I
• 40:00 - 40:30 had spent more time enjoying my family my friends my hobbies and all of that and that's something that I take to heart because we we all you know are trying to be successful professionals you know you want you obviously want your podcast to be the top podcast I want my book to be the top book and sometimes when we are so narrow focused on these things we forget the important things in life so so when you hear you know the the people who are at their
• 40:30 - 41:00 Death Beds talking about these things it just had that impact on me and and this is a book that I'm now recommending for a lot of people it's not an easy read um you know reading the stories of of people on their Death Beds it's it's very emotional it's very strong but I I felt like it was a message I needed to hear great book and great piece of advice so Amir if you had to summarize our talk what would you leave our listeners as the most important takeaway
• 41:00 - 41:30 well I would first start by saying that your questions were excellent I I really enjoyed the question they were very insightful the the summary of what we said is I I remind people that in leadership a humility as a strength not a weakness and it's a superpower when combined with ambition thank you so much for joining me and bringing your wisdom to the podcast today it was my pleasure I enjoyed it
• 41:30 - 42:00 and I appreciated it thanks for listening to the show this week we release new episodes every other Tuesday let me know what you thought of this episode by emailing human capital at goalspan.com human capital is produced by goldspan subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and please share this podcast with your colleagues team or friends thanks for being human kind foreign