The TRUTH About Training & Nutrition For Gaining Size Vs. Strength | Dr. Mike Israetel

Estimated read time: 1:20

Summary

In this insightful discussion, host Dave and guest Dr. Mike Israetel delve into the nuanced differences in training and nutrition between gaining size and strength. They explore the science and methodology behind hypertrophy, detailing how training should evolve over an athlete's lifespan to maximize gains while minimizing injury risk. They also address how nutrition plays a critical role in these processes, stressing the importance of consistency and making informed dietary choices. The conversation captures the essence of pushing physical boundaries while maintaining health as a priority.

Highlights

Discussing the differences in training for size versus strength with Dr. Mike Israetel. 💬
Dave and Mike emphasize the importance of consistent, nutrient-rich meals. 🥗
Training should evolve to prevent injury as athletes age. 🚑
The conversation touches on future medical advancements that could redefine aging. 🚀
Exploring Mastery of fitness and health throughout different life stages. 📜

Key Takeaways

Understand your body's needs whether focusing on size or strength. 🍖
A well-structured hypertrophy phase is crucial for muscle growth. 💪
Proper nutrition is key; consistency is king. 🍎
Training intensity should adapt as you age. 🕒
Exploring new physical challenges keeps the journey exciting. 🥋

Overview

Dave hosts Dr. Mike Israetel in an engaging discussion about the crucial differences between training to gain size vs. strength. They explore the science behind hypertrophy training and how one's strategy should evolve across different stages of life. Dr. Israetel shares insights into how a structured hypertrophy phase is vital for optimal muscle growth.

The conversation shifts to nutrition, highlighting that consistent and nutritious dietary habits are essential for effective training. Dr. Mike stresses the importance of building meals with balanced macros and maintaining dietary discipline to support fitness goals. They discuss how reliability in nutrition often underpins success in both strength and muscle gain endeavors.

Finally, the dialogue anticipates future transformative health technologies and encourages listeners to adapt journey strategies as they age. From mastering new physical challenges to contemplating aging interventions, the conversation is a call to integrate physical health and well-being into lifelong pursuits.

Chapters

00:00 - 05:00: Introduction The chapter introduces the idea of varying training cycles, comparing a 4-week and an 8-week 'Mesa' cycle, emphasizing that each includes a week for deloading. This structure is highlighted as beneficial for muscle growth, stressing the importance of nutrition in this process. For strength athletes, proper eating habits are crucial to fuel, feed, and grow muscle effectively. The chapter underscores the significance of instilling good meal structures and habits for optimal muscle hypertrophy.
05:00 - 10:00: Rank Your Coach System and Mentorship The chapter discusses a coaching system and mentorship program, emphasizing the importance of nutrition, specifically macronutrient intake. A rule of thumb mentioned is consuming roughly one gram of protein per pound of body weight daily. The chapter also highlights the importance of self-progressing in physical training, encouraging individuals to manage their own volume progression rather than relying solely on apps or external tools.
10:00 - 15:00: Training and Nutrition for Hypertrophy The chapter begins with a discussion on increasing training volume for hypertrophy, both in theory and through practical application in an app. The conversation aims to explore various modifications and strategies for effective training. The guest on the episode is Mike Israetel, a returning participant, noted for being on a previously highly-viewed podcast episode with around 400,000 views.
15:00 - 20:00: Challenges in Personal Training and Coaching In this chapter, the author reflects on a unique ranking system for coaches, specifically powerlifting coaches, instead of relying on traditional accolades and backgrounds. The discussion hints at a new, fun approach to evaluate and appreciate coaching abilities. This method was conceived years ago, and the author admits to not wanting to disclose how long ago it was developed.
20:00 - 25:00: Discussing the RP Hypertrophy App The chapter titled 'Discussing the RP Hypertrophy App' addresses the complexities of finding reliable online fitness coaching and educational resources. The speaker reflects on the proliferation of self-proclaimed 'gurus' and emphasizes the variability in coaches who may possess either theoretical knowledge or practical experience. To assist individuals in identifying competent coaches, a list of eight questions was developed, which individuals can rank on a scale from one to five.
25:00 - 30:00: Importance of Consistency in Nutrition The chapter titled 'Importance of Consistency in Nutrition' highlights the need to consider a person's formal education level, such as a PhD in exercise and sport physiology, to understand the significance of structured nutrition and exercise plans. The discussion references the concept of periodization in physical education, noting the parallels in nutritional consistency for optimal health outcomes. The focus is on leveraging academic expertise to practice and champion consistent nutritional habits.
30:00 - 35:00: Gaining Muscle Size and Increasing Weight The chapter explores the significance of training partners in the journey of gaining muscle size and increasing weight. It emphasizes that while personal effort is crucial, the influence and experience of training with professionals such as IFBB Pros, world-record-holding powerlifters, and professional MMA athletes like those practicing Jiu-Jitsu, can play a meaningful role in enhancing one's training effectiveness. Having seasoned athletes as training partners can provide valuable insights and inspiration, contributing to better results in muscle growth and weight gain.
35:00 - 40:00: Challenges of Aging in Powerlifting This chapter delves into the complexities faced by aging powerlifters. It emphasizes that systemic factors, like experience, often outweigh individual attributes. The narrator suggests that although one might train under renowned experts like Borico for numerous years, it doesn't necessarily guarantee expertise. The knowledge acquired is significant, yet it doesn’t inherently prove one's prowess in powerlifting.
40:00 - 45:00: Looking Forward: The Future of Bodily Optimization and AI The chapter titled 'Looking Forward: The Future of Bodily Optimization and AI' discusses various elements related to powerlifting and bodybuilding, specifically focusing on mentorship and coaching. The conversation touches upon how some individuals might stay in the field for a long time, hinting at their knowledge or skills that contribute to their longevity in the sport. A key figure mentioned as a mentor in this domain is Dr. Mike Stone, highlighting his significant influence and expertise. The discussion likely explores how mentoring relationships impact the development and optimization of physical prowess, possibly linking it with advancements in AI.
45:00 - 50:00: Concluding Thoughts The chapter 'Concluding Thoughts' reviews the credentials of a prominent figure in American Sport Science, described as the father of the field. This individual has over 200 peer-reviewed publications and formerly led the physiology division at the US Olympic Training Center. The speaker reflects on their own experience in a PhD program, admitting initial feelings of inadequacy despite their continued learning. They fondly recall working with 'Doc' Stone, highlighting his rapport with Bill C.

The TRUTH About Training & Nutrition For Gaining Size Vs. Strength | Dr. Mike Israetel Transcription

00:00 - 00:30 anything between 4 week long Mesa cycle and an 8 we long Mesa cycle and that includes one week baked into each at the end for D loing seems to be generally a good idea for muscle growth nutrition is probably more important for the hypertrophy if I'm looking at the strength athlete because if they go through that phase that they're supposed to go through that they don't go through but then when they do go through they don't go through it effectively they should be eating enough to actually Fuel and feed and grow the muscle so once you give people the habit of eating well the meal structure eating well you go on and
00:30 - 01:00 you give them the macros specifically proteins carbs fats generally the rule there is roughly a gram per pound of protein per day so if you weigh 200 lb 200 gram a day of protein the one piece of the stew I haven't figured out is how are you progressing the volume oh boy I want to ask the question a little bit differently because I don't want people to think it's solely just the app right because they can progress the volume themselves yes you know so how do you
01:00 - 01:30 look at progressing the volume through training theoretically and then theoretically and then how the app does and then how you can modify sure okay sweet we'll see if I remember all that [Music] so what's going on guys we're back with another episode of table talk today my guest is Mike isrel he's been on the podcast before I do believe it's the podcast that we have the most views on is that correct it's like crazy it's like four yeah like 400,000 or something
01:30 - 02:00 like that so instead of going through your accolades and your background I'm going to do something different years ago I wrote you know rank your powerlifting coach or rank your coach so we're going to do it this way because this will be fun right I walked into something yeah this will be fun all right so basically what I did God when was this I don't even want to say how long ago a long time ago oh come on it was that can't be right um you know don't say it
02:00 - 02:30 2004 so it was um I was looking for a way especially online because there's so many I guess now they're charlatans we used to call them gurus and all this other kind of stuff to help people that coaches that would be helping them out even from an educational Source because you can have somebody that's very highly educated but they don't have the Practical experience and vice versa and a lot of variants in between so I put together a list of one two eight questions and you rank from one to five
02:30 - 03:00 based upon the experience in each one by the way you're going to be the top of all these so it doesn't oh no way well the first one is they should look at what the person's formal education is so your formal education is PhD maxed out maxed out like you can't go further so PhD and um exercise physiology sport physiology sport physiology distinction without a difference PE periodization essentially is what we discussed the last time and then the second question
03:00 - 03:30 doesn't carry as much weight as the first but still matters and that's who have you trained with you know so over your duration of since you started training until now bunch of ifb Pros recently so so ifbb Pros world record holding powerlifters and stuff like that um professional MMA people you know like Jiu-Jitsu by those people yeah so again fill in the top so
03:30 - 04:00 right so we got a five on the first one on the second one and I think this one all these matter systemically or together is that's what I'm trying to say systemically more so than the rest because you can have somebody that has all the attributes but learned under the best for 10 years right doesn't mean that they're good but it's a notch on the Belt sure like so if they trained with borico for 10 years sure you know that matters they might they must know
04:00 - 04:30 something yeah they might know something maybe they knew enough to stay around sure for a long enough period of time um who coached or mentored them that falls more into like the powerlifting type thing so sure and with the bodybuilding it would be a little different um coaching so who would you say were your mentors well my and my feel directly is Dr Mike Stone yeah and he is kind of the
04:30 - 05:00 father of American Sport Science and there 200 plus formal peer-reviewed Publications was the head of physiology at the US Olympic Training Center I mean this is accolades are just insane so when I got to my PhD program I was uh I I assumed I knew nothing and I was correct and then after three years I knew you know more yeah and it was it is really cool though to like uh doc was we call him doc doc Stone he was uh training partners with Bill C me for
05:00 - 05:30 some time and he did tell me a few stories that hopefully it's okay to share Bill did deadlift over a thousand several times with straps but when he got to his strongest weight Body Weight Wise his hand muscles got so big he couldn't grab a standard bar well enough to hold on to it at those poundages so with straps he could pull over a thousand wow that was told that story I was like uh well do I even have hand muscles yeah what have I been doing whole not being bill casm is the direct
05:30 - 06:00 answer so he had mits I mean oh oh yeah oh yeah yeah there was I had this like uh really weird thing where I was speaking at um what's that conference we had here Swiss Swiss yes last year and I was answering questions for some folks after my talk and Bill kasmire walks by and he looks at me and I of course froze because it's Bill casm and I was like I was talking to two guys and I was like do you guys know who that is and they're like No And I was like
06:00 - 06:30 but that's God that is the standard Setter go talk to him I instantly kicked him away from me they they cried but then they went talked to Bill I'm kidding that last part's not true but it was it was wild to see him yeah two things to bounce off of that is you're going to speak again at Swiss and I did make a note I need to promote Swiss so the Swiss is in the description October 2021 um Mike's going to be speaking we have other speakers if you click through there we have pre-launch registration
06:30 - 07:00 going on right now which you can save interesting story 39% on that not 40 39% just how the math worked out so I said screw it I'm going to leave it because it looks different we'll see what happens so you going to save 39% on that the I don't know if I want to say this when the last week I was out of town so I was training at a different gym and maybe the guys listen to the podcast or not so I I get recognized sometimes I do sometimes I don't probably most of the
07:00 - 07:30 time I don't which is actually a good thing because you just want to go train Lee and so I'm talking to this guy and he ends up he very very accomplished powerlifter so he's got his buddies with him and he's introducing me to his buddies they don't know who I am which is cool that's fine you no it's not you better tell him it's even way well he he was right and so then he was talking about how it's important you know to your point with those other guys that they know the history of the sport and I push back on him and said it's important
07:30 - 08:00 yeah but what's even more important is you to continue to keep getting better and to push your own path and then the guy looked at me he was dead serious he wasn't [ __ ] with me at all you know so there not a rip on him but he said it's important to recognize and respect your elders and I thought for a minute Elders [ __ ] you know then it was it was like a mind [ __ ] and I'm like that was it was a respectful it was a compliment yeah but it hit me a little weird you're driving home later and you just have that like concussed grenade sound yeah
08:00 - 08:30 it's like yes I I come home and tell my wife I'm like but I think I think I was just called an elder oh yeah anyhow to get off of that we got a five there from the mentoring thing then what have you done in sport so it's very general here so it could be bodybuilding it could be powerlifting right now you're training for a show yeah yeah which I'd give myself a three or a four on that one well what what level though
08:30 - 09:00 yeah so in powerlifting I was like okay drug-free lifter yeah at a at a time when almost no one lifted raw drug free so competition was not impressive and nor was I then in Brazilian jiu-jitsu uh I have pretty good competitive record but you know like I'm I wasn't am Juiced up so I don't compete in the most prestigious Federation which is drug tested that doesn't stop most most of the people in there from using
09:00 - 09:30 drugs but I don't cheat on principles so I'm like so I do some local and other federations I I've done quite well I'm pretty formidable Jiu-Jitsu competitor given that you know my limitations of being a short King and stuff like that I'm kidding do you know that vernacular yet yeah and I don't know that one so you're going to have to explain that one so I think short people have L inferiority complex so they call themselves short Kings now short Kings to make sure that you know like well you're still a king so you know fous um so I I was I'm okay at Jiu-Jitsu and
09:30 - 10:00 then um last year so I used to suck at bodybuilding and then I finally figured out how to Peak and last year I took second in the super heavyweights at Masters usas out of a class of like eight or nine people and was the leanest guy in the supers my long shot it seemed so I was pretty cool I was like okay like I'm a nationally competitive bodybuilder which is kind of yeah so we'll give you we'll give you 4.5 oh please four ah it's it's four four I
10:00 - 10:30 don't want to get into the points because it's too hard to do the math you started adding I don't know man you're a fine coach AI still isn't good at math either so I can't use that um have you made it so with this will play in this next one these two kind of tie together have you coach or trained anybody to a level better than the level that you've achieved oh yeah almost everyone's better than that's easy it's like if you can't do one the other one's going to be higher and then how many years competing in strength Sports so when you you started that power Li 20 20 two decades
10:30 - 11:00 so I have a note here that over 15 years is a five oh hell five you just got to hang around long enough exactly for this thing longevity matter turn into an elder I'm kidding I had to to plug you on that one so how many years of serious training that's also over 15 becomes a five um how many years coaching and helping others 20 20 so that's a five because over 15 years there's a five there and then that gets 5 10 15 20 25
11:00 - 11:30 30 35 39 where when you go to if you suck or not you don't suck score 35 and over is a great coach all right right yeah there you go and then if you guys want to find this you can just search rank your powerlifting coach or Dave tank rank your coach this is really cool but it there is some shortcomings with that with this whole thing where Mike tare when I years ago you tried to use this to find I think it was a brillian
11:30 - 12:00 jit Jitsu coach so he tried to use that and then what he he used it and he found somebody that had all the high marks but then they sucked yeah because they weren't good at coaching beginners yeah right because that's a different skill set they might not I don't know mik to share a story with this but I can is it okay if I exp um so they might not have been good at coaching at all MH it turns out that um probably the most important requirement as far as I can tell from
12:00 - 12:30 coaching is are you mentally and emotionally immersed in the process and value of helping other people become their best like maximum giving a [ __ ] as to how your athletes do a kind of giving a [ __ ] that does at least two things for you one it makes you stay up at odd hours and use lots of your free time to try to learn and improve your coaching skills to whatever methods possible and it could just go back and read a ton of elite articles and that's well on my way
12:30 - 13:00 the other is do you come to your uh your athletes with the ethos of I'm going to empower you to do your very best and I really give a [ __ ] about how well you do and if you give me sweat and blood and determination I will give you everything in return back to be your best facilitator possible those two things that sort of tireless search for knowledge and that desire to help the athlete there's a few others I can think of that make a great coach like iterating on the process and trying to
13:00 - 13:30 improve and seeing how how can I be wrong what am I what am I missing here how how can I systematize this problem a bit better how can I understand the universe of coaching a bit better those qualities are so important that you can have coaches that haven't have don't have half those accolades and they coach anyone else under the table because as the client experiences it they're the [ __ ] best coach in the world so you don't need to you don't need any degrees barely need to know how to read you just just have to make sure I'm joking
13:30 - 14:00 hopefully you can read well enough to get on articles and stuff but it's really a lot of coaches who have all those accolades they've done really well for themselves and because they did well for themselves other people who are good came to them for coaching so now they can mark off some of those like well I've coached pros and stuff like that but at the end of the day they really don't care much about coaching it's not something that deeply infuses sort of their every fiber of their being and then they'll never get as good as someone else who really gives a [ __ ] I say giving a [ __ ] about something a true Deep Way not like nominally I mean just
14:00 - 14:30 like you give some of your time and effort to it it beats almost everything because while someone else could have accolades and all these degrees they never spent the Deep learning part deep thought in how can I coach better how can I get people stronger it really vexes your brain to do you ever have a lifter Dave where you're like just can't figure out this asshole's deadlift the [ __ ] I've coached so many people I've boosted everyone's deadlift [ __ ] is wrong with this alligator armed [ __ ] oh damn yeah is it more
14:30 - 15:00 deficits is it a grip problem is it a technique problem is it a mentality problem is it a messenger problem 100% maybe you're not giv the right cues the right ways um and if you Vex your mind enough on these kinds of things two things happen probabilistically one they're more likely to get their deadlift PR from you two the skill set that you're building kind of like the gpts large language models right now they pile through massive amounts of data and develop a really deep intuition about what things are that's humans are all large l models that's what we do if
15:00 - 15:30 you really try and solve client problems and you get into hard difficult problems that you can't solve and you really try to just grind through it really take a different approach really think about it think about it before you go to sleep dream about the [ __ ] wake up repeat you will start to develop a coaching wisdom that is man it's just real difficult to beat you don't need degrees or any of that [ __ ] now it's me discrediting myself because I ain't got none of that I got all those degrees and accolades but I guess what I'm trying to say is like a lot of the folks listening this may be like man [ __ ] I had to win the
15:30 - 16:00 World Championships to get a [ __ ] PhD for this [ __ ] like you don't you just have to read a crapload of articles online watch a bunch of videos bunch of podcasts train yourself as hard as you've ever trained anyone because you have to be the canary and the coal mine for this [ __ ] by yourself and then when you apply your craft to the people that come to you to get better you apply it with diligence and with just a passion to get people better and if you do that for enough time well the data science problem takes care of itself your brain learns over time and you'll develop an unreal skill set
16:00 - 16:30 for how to really coach the living [ __ ] out of somebody no I think that I think what you just summarized there is key this was written two decades ago before the ad it's valid in its own right and and it is because you can't sorry you can't Intuit it that that is something you can look up about a coach then you go to the coach and you see if he breaks the barriers on other things you how do you going to Google someone just be like hey do you know coach this and that guy like bring a dedication to his clients
16:30 - 17:00 that Sur like what the [ __ ] that's not something you Google that's not some Chad gbt can tell you unfortunately or fortunately you have to interact with a human being to find that out now nowadays with Reddit and reviews of people you'll get some semblance with a guy but also it's difficult cuz like a few people could have a problem with you and now you're evil on the internet yeah or a few hundred people think you're amazing but never really deeply interacted with you and they're like this guy's the best coach bro you're like do you really know that yes could be could not be um I I will say over
17:00 - 17:30 time people will say they'll Trend towards this guy's a real good coach real good coach real good every starts everyone says it then it's probably more likely to be true but nonetheless never can't tell yeah and this this was done before online training really became a thing so it was a vetting mechanism as you were saying like here's your first phase of vetting where now you know I think that skill that you're touching on just say problem solving sure right which isn't always going to happen
17:30 - 18:00 because most people are pretty cut and dry you know with what they're doing but when it does happen the the coach has to be able to pull on those things because all the other things are going to be automated sure and already a lot are I mean you're app for hypertrophy is doing a lot which we'll get into that but a lot are but when you run into the speed bump I think that's where the future of the actual coach becomes is that you know not so much this you know shuttling back and forth worth of emails or text messages
18:00 - 18:30 or whatnot but a consultant as you would have for an attorney or HR whatever it's going to be somebody that you're going to call to help go over that speed bump because all the other things are going to kind of be automated 100% you know there's uh the numbers are pretty easy to automate in the RP hypertrophy app we've even automated most of the auto regulation like if I did this weight this many reps this many sets this week what do I do next week that's all take care of this machine logic is not that
18:30 - 19:00 difficult the Nuance the psychological stuff the personal stuff the what is my grand goal what should I be doing now stuff that stuff an app can't quite handle yet in the future apps will handle I think almost everything what a great time that will be because we'll essentially everyone can get expert coaching for you know 20 bucks a month or whatever but right now coaches have this uh area where they can be human and personable and you know an app can tell you hey do
19:00 - 19:30 these numbers but if you're feeling down that day an app isn't likely to message you in a very believable way even if it's Ai and it's like hey uh do your best like okay but if I don't what are you going to do nothing but a coach is a human being um we have a coach at RP Dr Jen case she's one world's a bunch in Jiu-Jitsu she's a total freak like just will'll beat you up hands down her clients are like scared of her I
19:30 - 20:00 think not in a bad way but in the way of like when Dr Jen says I got to do these macros this week to lift these weights I'm going to do it because she's a hard-nosed person and she expects me to have results there's a human being back there somewhere who gives a [ __ ] whether or not I do the plan who I'm a little bit intimidated by that's a big part of coaching of that human element and not just the intimidation Factor but like hey I don't feel motivated today what do I do oh geez you know if I'm ing I got all sorts of [ __ ] to tell you anywhere
20:00 - 20:30 from sarcasm all the way up through real you know come to Jesus kind of talks an app May at some point be able to do that will it be able to do it convincingly maybe will it be able to do convincingly and also have that moral element to it where like if you don't try and your coach knows you didn't try it's not a matter of just like oh hey no big deal we'll try it again you know coach gives you that look and you're like throw up your hands after the deadlift so you got a third one you're like you know he's judging you you may even deny you still
20:30 - 21:00 know so next time you hit that set you might not do that thing any kind of digital assistant let's see even in a super intelligent digital assistant somebody who is an aggregate of all of the YouTube experts ever in one coach that's very hypothetically feasible within three or four years he might know everything he might even be able to tell you incisive psychological [ __ ] right on the spot you could be like yeah say I what the [ __ ] is he going to do to me getting a robot body and beat me up and then he does you're like oh my God yeah yeah yeah that's I better do these dead another conversation that's it today's
21:00 - 21:30 episode is brought to you by element a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't in other words no sugar no artificial coloring no artificial ingredients no gluten no fillers and no BS with the element I love the watermelon the watermelon tastes freaking awesome I drank one pack every day no matter what people that train out here it's sitting out here for them all the time the boxes don't last very long right now element is offering tabl talk
21:30 - 22:00 listeners a free sample pack with any purchase that's eight single serving packages free with any element order get yours at drink element.com talk the deal is only available through the link in the description the other thing is if you don't like it you can just give it away to a salty friend and element will give you a 100% refund no risk money back guarantee head over to Tran element.com [Music] TBL talk
22:00 - 22:30 with let's stay on hypertrophy because I've used the app for I one me cycle for five weeks and the next one starts today so it's a custom thing and it's it's funny because um he just connected us today I sent a text message right back to your partner Nick Nick and it's funny because he was asking what the experience was I'm like ah you know most of it's been user air Mike's taking care of that it's just all user air just user you know there there
22:30 - 23:00 there there's one thing but just the user erir but the other things I I said you know we'll talk about because it's so hypertrophy app which I think I can take this direction in a way that we can actually speak about the process of hypertrophy in its own phase because it's not a strength phase it's not a peing powerlifting app this is a hypertrophy app correct and so for those phases from what I've seen I think I think I've kind of a little bit of the code but I don't know because it's only
23:00 - 23:30 been four weeks there's only so much that you can crack with that sure where it's it's using r r i it's very tough to say yeah it's very tough and the so once I put my [ __ ] in there right so we'll talk about what [ __ ] should be put in there because it was a custom thing and you have options that are not that then the first week was I believe four r or two R and like okay look this is set a base is going to see where I fall
23:30 - 24:00 weightwise as long as I'm not an idiot and I stick to whatever those RS are and usually I've been kind of critical of those like ah this is stupid until I've actually had to do it and I know I this is probably four okay like how do you know 4 32 because I could hit ammonia get psyched up and like well if the whole training is going to be not hitting ammonia and not getting psyched up then it's going to be consistent for whatever time period it is totally and so then over the period of the four
24:00 - 24:30 weeks when I didn't have to change a movement or delete a movement or so forth there's small weight increases sometimes annoying CU it's like 2.5 pounds on a [ __ ] machine I'm like I'm not grabbing the magnets I'm just going to go up 10 whatever yeah yeah and um then it want for the other cool this is what I really liked about like about it and while I'll still continue using it even when I put strength [ __ ] in it's going to be another layer to be able to put through there okay is the joint pain is being measured yeah and I
24:30 - 25:00 think that's impacting the volume and the weight jumps because if the joint if I put like crazy joint pain uhhuh then it's not doing certain things that the other exercises are doing from the progression know I know you built it so it was like your brain into this app so that's valuable for me and we'll talk later how aging gets in there because sometimes I got to be very cautious to that the pump thing yeah whatever you know I'm not really into this pump thing
25:00 - 25:30 but it's a gauge I I I understand it's a gauge like it's definitely a gauge that has application where we'll talk a little bit more on why you know it has that application and then the was it hard it like easy hard kind of hard work your ass off whatever it is workload workload so it's calculating effort to be a to move that forward and at first I'm like ah I don't I don't use those things but then you realize I do we all
25:30 - 26:00 do yeah it's just not as formalized as what that is you know the some of the things I had to hack a little bit would be I'll have longer waves I think I messaged you about it where if I want to run an exercise for four weeks you know sometimes it's h sometimes I'm going to Peter out before the four weeks yeah so I started a slower Tempo sure and then as the two weeks of a shorter Tempo then I can go like a normal tempo I can get more time out of it I'm just
26:00 - 26:30 using a contr Tempo I just make a note you know what I'm saying was like Fe it's got a note you know so that was the thing like how am I going to know what tempo yeah like go just make the note there it goes there and um then what what I didn't like but I see why it's there like week four was like like do four reps or what it was like super light it's like a D Lo like nobody likes the D [ __ ] ha by the way just in case anyone gets off there's a feature in the app where we just say
26:30 - 27:00 like complete all of the rest of my mesle cycle for me it finishes it you can just do your own thing for de lo or do nothing at all do you recommend you take some rest I here's what I did right because we can talk about God there's so many things to talk about because I didn't feel like I needed that with what I was doing because I didn't have any real hard exercises that beat me too bad okay right most of it was just machine [ __ ] that I can recover from a little bit better there were things I can recover from better cuz the volume was going to be way higher than what I've
27:00 - 27:30 done previously so if I'm going to take my volume sets times reps times five I'm not doing [ __ ] heavy barbell rows I'm not doing heavy dumbbell rows I going do other stuff like that so when that week came I just slid I just changed movements to make them even easier movements than what I was doing okay you know so instead of the seated chest press machine you know with handles it was the cable like standing chest press cable okay so it's yeah you can only go
27:30 - 28:00 you know what I'm saying it's a de lo in itself just because the exercise for me is easier to recover from which is one of the things that God I don't know where to start like so let's just let's back up and let's start with for those that are building a hypertrophy phase right what do you think the optimal time duration of that phase would be it's a good question so you know Technic ly speaking anything between 4 we long Mesa
28:00 - 28:30 cycle and an 8we long Mesa cycle and that includes one week baked into each at the end for de loading seems to be generally a good idea for muscle growth if you train for much longer than about 3 weeks hard before taking a D Lo let's say you do what's called a 2:1 Paradigm two weeks of accumulation one week of Deo there's a gentleman you had signed to
28:30 - 29:00 your uh to Elite back in the day what his name Chad IES maybe I remember like following his blog for a while and he was going through a rough time it just seemed like he was de loing every two or three weeks for like a year straight he was like a that sucks so he was he' probably be the first person to tell you like quality training time needs to accumulate for some weeks because if you think about it accumulation of two weeks deal out of one if you you assume you don't make a lot of progressions on your D Lo week you really spend like twoth
29:00 - 29:30 thirds of the Year getting better and a whole third of the year not getting better MH training is better when it's stacked up over multiple weeks because then you have a lot of chronic exposure to the stimulus more opportunity to get gains that's great so 3 weeks up one down great four weeks up one down great five up one down great as you get much Beyond 6 weeks if especially if you are
29:30 - 30:00 training properly training very hard appropriately hard as you get stronger and bigger over time the problem that you run into is that the fatigue level you're experiencing starts to accumulate exponentially and the stimulus starts to Peter off and then you end up in weeks seven and 8 n if you're still training you end up kind of by biochemically spinning your wheels you're sending a
30:00 - 30:30 lot of anabolic signaling to the muscles but the concomitant catabolic signaling is at this point so high due to high fatigue at a chemical level that you don't grow much muscle what a tragedy to spend two of the hardest training weeks of your last year growing essentially no muscle at all on that balance so there is such a thing as too short of a time scale in training two weeks geez you can do better than that accumulate is a good thing but much beyond for many people 6
30:30 - 31:00 weeks starts to be too much accumulated fatigue that you're dealing with it's like uh this concept of a kind of goldilock zone of time applies to almost everything else you know if you were to say how how am I allowed to say like adult [ __ ] yeah yeah um this is a family podcast yeah sure so you know like you here's the most beautiful woman that you've ever wanted
31:00 - 31:30 thanks AI how long are you going to have sex with her in one stretch all right pills let's do it three minutes you're like bro you know I'm saying they used to call me minute man at high school but that was for unrelated reasons JK 3 minutes is not long enough I want more love making find someone's like ah aliens are studying you and they're like ah uh more love making crank the meter 19 hours of just this [ __ ] Bro we've all been adults
31:30 - 32:00 we've had fun 19 hours is too much fun nobody's having any fun at that point so clearly there's a window for things like eating and sex and driving your car and having any time that's fun with your friends too short too long and somewhere in the middle is like kind of bell curve Optimum for serious hypertrophy training for most people our best estimated RP is that tends to occur between 4 weeks Mesa cycle and 6 weeks mesocycle can some people get a good benefit
32:00 - 32:30 training for two weeks harder than d loing one yeah [ __ ] yeah they exist can some people get unbelievable results training seven weeks accumulation and then just one week of deer yeah absolutely beginners people that aren't as strong people taking it a little easy but for most people four to six weeks seems to be that goldilock zone Sweet Spot um analogous in my experience would be like 4 hours of sex cuz your boy is a killer in the 3 and a half hours I'm still in it I'm
32:30 - 33:00 just kidding I've never actually had sex yeah I've seen a lot of adult films about it yeah they have a lot of sex Yeah Yeah so basically is it possible to get more accumulation time yes now my more skeptical co-designers of this app Jared feather ifbb Pro and James Hoffman Dr James Hoffman recovery expert if you told them hey I can go seven weeks [ __ ] hard in proper
33:00 - 33:30 bodybuilding hypertrophy training and still accumulate more and still get better adaptations without fatigue crushing me they're going to give you the squint not so good at the squint but it's very intimidating and they'll say let's go back to what you're doing to see are you training close enough to failure are you doing an appropriate amount of volume because listen all of us can train for a year straight no problem you just do one set five reps in reserve for every muscle group once a
33:30 - 34:00 week every week the [ __ ] you'd actually shrink the entire time you did that and sure [ __ ] you can accumulate for a [ __ ] year straight it is that high quality training so we have to add another variable into the mix not just is it enough time to expose you to a good stimulus that's Factor one factor two it's not so much time that you get so fatigued you can't even lift weights anymore effectively the other question is what is the quality of the stimulus and is it enough time de loading to really reset your fatigue back down
34:00 - 34:30 close to zero so you can nut up and [ __ ] hit it again people will complain at the end of De week like man [ __ ] hate D Lo I just want to [ __ ] train good good [ __ ] good that's how you're supposed to feel at the end of a D Lo week if you finish a D Lo week and you're like man training [ __ ] that you either psychologically are checked out that's not my I don't know no expertise in that but uh go pick up another hobby but you might just be too systemically too physically fatigued still and you need more time de loing so all those factors thrown in there assuming your training properly generally most people will have a very
34:30 - 35:00 good time close to Optimum results for 5 or 6 weeks we intentionally did not allow the app to make shorter Mesa Cycles or longer ones mostly because there's a difference between um creating a uh some something intellectual value for people to consume and building a product and selling it one of the things that I'm learning about product design is I just want to empower people to be able to do anything they want and guide them along way I want the infinity training app it can do anything you want and just will guide
35:00 - 35:30 you intelligently you you you could except the people get there and there's like okay I'm going to do this they pick a very wrong choice and the app's like no worries we're just going to try to steer you in the right direction and then it's going to be a painful experience for them because they've already uh said like hey like this is this is great I'm going to do this it's kind of like all right let's say you sign up for like a like a pickup artist class or some [ __ ] like that like I'm going to learn how to pick up chicks except you like rub feces on your body you show up with like a garbage truck driver's uniform and you're like I'm
35:30 - 36:00 Ready the guy in charge is going to be like I going to try to get you laid here bro tonight it is going to be a challenge so if you give people a two-e Mesa cycle option they assume hey there the experts built the app they think this is a good thing for some people it is for most people it's not it just doesn't occur in the app four five and six that's all you get if you want to modify the [ __ ] you always can you just do let's say you want a swe mcle you build out the six we one and then at the end of one of your weeks
36:00 - 36:30 you rebuild the thing which we're going to make easier in a in a few months basically copy your mcycle over refilling numbers and just hit it again that You' have to hack it you have to hack it because we don't want folks are coming in thinking hey this is an expert app it's going to tell me what to do and riding off the rails in a 9we Mesa cycle and elbow falls off and their shoulder breaks and they're like what the [ __ ] that's my it's interesting that you say that because the one scenario that I messaged him back today on
36:30 - 37:00 was most of the there there's there's hacks right for certain things there's there's one situation that there's really not a hack for right but it's a situation that isn't going to help the population or the demographic that's actually using this for the purpose of hypertrophy okay it will help me for the stupid [ __ ] that I do right so so it's essentially what I was messaging back and forth is I don't think this is absolutely necess or I don't think this is necessary at all it's probably
37:00 - 37:30 counterproductive to the people that would be using this where to your point when you're putting a product out to be able to produce XYZ result you can't start throwing in all this other crap which could potentially or in my case probably [ __ ] that up you know with the way it is so basically what I was looking for was a way to to override the progressions that are put put in there so if I train and I do if I train my
37:30 - 38:00 squad on 3 we waves with different specialty bars so say I'll use a safety Squad bar then I'll go Mars bar and spider bar so forth okay and they're trained kind of Max effor is you know FES first week threes maybe the next week singles on the third okay um for myself that is what I love to do is like the heavy singles on [ __ ] right and I to me the heavier singles on squ spots are safer than doing reps cuz I've
38:00 - 38:30 done it my whole entire life I'm tighter I understand that position I've never been hurt on a single I've always been hurt on rep start breathing hard you lose your focus on not tight boom problem now somebody that's essentially only done singles for 40 years yeah I know push this don't sure it's there don't you know so it's it's what I wave in there so I would need to remove the progression to be able to allow different weight to be loaded on that day cuz it's not all the same set right
38:30 - 39:00 well you can just click on the weight thing and just pick your new weight that you want instead not for a second set you it is a it is now a feature oh it is now a feature okay so that would solve that right solved you go to the menu right in the exercise yeah you hit duplicate exercise and it just brings up a new set you can have a couple sets of oh no no no I do that I do that I do that I'm saying under the same yeah under the same movement same movement if that's that's what it does yeah but I wouldn't have to hit duplicate correct yeah you we will eventually allow people
39:00 - 39:30 to change the weights within without hitting the duplicate function it's a we have to algorithmically restructure the app to do that because it reads your progress and it assumes certain things but I don't know if that to to my point I don't know if that is a good thing for the people that are going to be using this for hypertrophy yeah right because I can use that if I'm doing eight sets of three of dynamic bench I just have close grip medium grip wide grip boom it's in there three sets of each move it through fine that works there's there a
39:30 - 40:00 hack for that but when you start allowing too much [ __ ] yeah then there becomes the problem for sure right for sure and that because when you put in the stuff that I do say this heavy stuff it's still a heavy single or triple it's a lot of load it's a lot of systemic load for me to recover from which means if you were to program this into set app I'm sure we're on the same page that that thing comes first you can't put six other accessory exercises on that day yeah you can if you want you
40:00 - 40:30 can but you might need to put one and see you later right because now it's become a strength app not a hypertrophy app so it's a different people were asking us about that and I'm sure we we're not trying to make a strength app we are also enough our product development skills at RP are maturing enough to let us know that we can't make uh an app that does it all MH um because that t tend to go against the user experience 100% um it's like trying to
40:30 - 41:00 make the best gym like powerlifting gym is it a strongman gym is it a gymnastics gym do you have cheerleading and they're like all of it like okay well now you have like a lot of space and people have to walk really far for the equipment they're like but it should be a short walk too it's like that violates the laws of nature at some point you can't have it all and uh another thing I learned in business quite recently is like you have to find your demographic and Niche down hard into it really solve the [ __ ] out of a problem for a certain
41:00 - 41:30 number of people and if you get really good at that maybe you can move out of the Borderlands first so we're trying to do first is make a really really good hypertrophy app it's I think a very good one now eventually it'll be great and then and then maybe we'll inch out but there's other great apps um Chad Wesley Smith has the Juggernaut AI app it's [ __ ] great for strength for powerlifting people ask on like Instagram like hey will you be making an app for powerlifting or strength like no Chad already did that it's [ __ ] awesome um and so it's totally cool to just
41:30 - 42:00 be at this I in my heart I still want it to be a strength and hypertrophy app the problem is [ __ ] that that's a lot of to jugle there is surely An Elegant way to juggle them but because we spend time programming that in we spend less time programming other features in to make the experience better for the core user and our core user is anyone that wants to get jacked period if getting jacked is your number one goal even if it's
42:00 - 42:30 just for 5 weeks come to us the app will it's got an electric shocker goes right to your balls no wait sorry similar idea to your muscles well I with my my push back on not really a push back but my my thought on that would be the strength athletes that I know and have worked with and been around my whole entire life when they come to their hyper Fe phase or offseason phase or whatever it is they suck they don't do it for [ __ ] yeah you know they they don't train the
42:30 - 43:00 movements as they should I don't think they stay with the the movement selection we'll talk about in a minute I don't think they stay with the same movement long enough you know to be able to have a progression they change the exercise every single time they go in the gym agreed and they find a way to stick in like I did you know a little bit of that strength stuff but to the demise of the whole hypertrophy phase you're you're you're you're preaching to my choir right now yeah well it's it's it's [ __ ] true you know it's
43:00 - 43:30 people can argue all they want to what they yeah what they essentially do is like an eight-week D Lo right and then they come back and they're really not even better and they didn't add any muscle and it's first off I'm going to rant for a second first off if you're going to give a [ __ ] eight to 10 week off seon to add muscle do you understand how hard it is to add muscle then you're going to try to do it in [ __ ] 8 to 10 weeks and that's it out of the whole week year you better have that on point yeah you know and have the nutrition to
43:30 - 44:00 actually feed it it's not like an offseason ah [ __ ] I'll go in and do three sets of 10 change the [ __ ] movement around and just waste the whole period and essentially that's why I'm saying that that's where this the prin [ __ ] your app for a second right cuz you wrote a book on it as well and you have tons of videos on it as well so all you've done is can put it into an app to be able to move that forward they're not even doing that like so if they're not going to like at least learn how to run a hypertrophy phase
44:00 - 44:30 without it just being called the hypertrophy phase yes the hypertrophy then here's here's a way that can basically just do it for them to provide accountability just here it as follow this put it out there so go oh man so uh the off season from what I understand originally got its name from baseball where they would have a season in pro baseball of competing like in 1909 or whatever back when Babe Ruth was
44:30 - 45:00 a thing or whatever I know I know nerds I'm getting the years wrong stayc and um baseball players professional players would actually just like not train not compete and literally just have an off season they just would be off some of them literally sold like refrigerators door to door in their jobs they sold insurance I think Babe Ruth sold some kind I think he sold insurance and like once he got famous selling insurance was really easy can you imagine like living
45:00 - 45:30 legend knocks on your door like oh my God yes I'll buy whatever it is so that kind of culture at least we have some semblance of it and at least it has a word with it that stuck off season but the reality is and you've been availed of course to like the Russian periodization literature it's not called an off seon it's called Sometimes some kind of Preparatory phase Preparatory specific Preparatory and it's like Preparatory right where right we're
45:30 - 46:00 still getting ready for something there's something at the end of this as I want a total I want a [ __ ] huge total and even if I'm a powerlifter I'm not a bodybuilder I I saw an amazing shirt at a powerlifting meet once uh no it said no calves no curls no crying it's like oh boy that's all bodybuilding so uh there if you want to just total bit and you have come to realize that how
46:00 - 46:30 muscular you are has something to do with your total which is [ __ ] obvious if you've ever seen a powerlift me like Mommy Mommy why is that man winning because his quads are the size of everyone else's waist like oh okay that makes sense if you want big muscles what makes you think what gives you the audacity to assume that that [ __ ] does not require the kind of rigor and effort and psychological [ __ ] strain that you bring to your powerlifting blocks and by the way hypertrophy training is
46:30 - 47:00 like powerlifting training except it's little less weight on the bar but more reps and sets it hurts even more [ __ ] that that's hard it's too hard for me to do so I'm not going to do it I'm going to instead of picking good mornings as my exercise of choice for [ __ ] weeks and getting stronger on it I'm just going to title that part in my little notebook hamstrings you ever see like someone titles an exercise an entire body part like Calves like [ __ ] what did you do for Cavs like I don't know just [ __ ] whatever Cals uh no no
47:00 - 47:30 that's not how that [ __ ] works you are going to use exercises you planned that were effective that are difficult you're going to start using a certain amount of weight on them for you know for offseason powerlifting sets a 5 to 10 and you were going to incrementally increase that weight over time weeks and weeks you're not going to like to do it you're going to have 220 kilos in a squat bar and you're going to have to do sets of [ __ ] eight with it like D [ __ ] this [ __ ] this why did I sign up for this because you wanted the kind of big quads not bodybuilder fake looking big quads that aren't that strong you
47:30 - 48:00 want the kind of big quads that transfer over to [ __ ] powerlifting and that means you will have to do sets of eight on the [ __ ] Squat and you will have to do sets of eight on the hack squat after super deep with a pause and you're going to have to put a lot of plates on there and you're going to throw up remember uh currently Jana formerly Matt Croc uh I'll just say Matt because was Matt back then or Croc Croc [ __ ] it oh my God thank Jana I love you don't [ __ ] kill me please she's a [ __ ] beast so um Croc would do Croc training
48:00 - 48:30 tons of rows and squats and lunges with a [ __ ] telephone pole and throw up all the time and I remember powerlifters watching Croc train like that and of course a bunch of them were like [ __ ] yeah and some of them you could see like eyes darting across the room like we don't have to do this to get that yeah you [ __ ] do remember Croc at [ __ ] singl it off at the winning the [ __ ] wpo you're like what is that that's [ __ ] enormous what do you think all that strength comes from so some people in powerlifting many people have
48:30 - 49:00 accepted a culture shift to where off season means arguably the hardest [ __ ] training some people have not which side of you betting is going to get bigger and [ __ ] stronger so if you're serious about the [ __ ] your training should be organized now if you need a break what the that's what active rest is for twice a year as a good powerlifter take two weeks and just [ __ ] disappear mhm go home eat Doritos play games talk [ __ ] or go on a cross country Drive finding yourself and
49:00 - 49:30 your friends it's going to be a great movie on ABC TV whatever the [ __ ] you do hmar hallmar Channel I say I was only recently veiled to the fact that there's an entire Channel exclusively Hallmark movies um whatever you have to do then when you come back in to do your offseason training to do your hypertrophy come correct come to [ __ ] work come to suffer come with an organized structured plan just like you structure [ __ ] in in regular power lifting training no [ __ ] no [ __ ] no I'm going to do this and that the
49:30 - 50:00 whole changing exercises all the [ __ ] time there are intelligent ways to structure exercise changes in several week or weeklong bursts then there's like I just need novelty because I'm a [ __ ] child and I want to come in there and do something new and I'm unwilling to challenge myself with dare I say the more boring progression if you need to do some can you imagine like Elon Musk shows up to work like Elon thanks for showing up buddy we're working on this [ __ ] big ass rocket
50:00 - 50:30 that we've been working on for two years and elon's like H let's do something fun today let's do something else let's work on something else like but the rocket don't we want to go to space nah nobody's is's not going to say that he just starts another company and works on that in the time that he doesn't sleep apparently and still works on the [ __ ] rock so a lot of times people will switch exercises a lot in hypertrophy training we have direct research to say that gets you less jacked over time by the way sticking to a single exercise for at least a few weeks is better why do they do it
50:30 - 51:00 there's all sorts of reasons they make up there's only one real reason it's just bored just [ __ ] just wanted to do something different and fun um if you come into the gym to do different and fun things listen I love you that's [ __ ] great Namaste let's hug you're the [ __ ] man don't plan on getting the best results I remember I had a a a really I'm not going to list the specifics of this it's mildly offensive but there uh I've been involved with a few sports teams over my career and some
51:00 - 51:30 of the sports teams they [ __ ] work in training and some of them don't and one of the things I saw that really pissed me off sort of taught me A Life Lesson was there was an athlete crying after a game loss and I that athlete some of the team was good that athlete specifically just never tried hard in practice da it took everything for me not to come up to her be like [ __ ] why are you crying the [ __ ] are you crying for where were you what are you crying about out you deserve not even to be here thank God you got third
51:30 - 52:00 place with your team so if you care enough about winning and losing about total pring about whatever it is you do in the gym to cry about it if it doesn't go your way you had better care enough to download the RP that for [ __ ] there you go [ __ ] pay us money godamn it no I'm just kidding get a [ __ ] organized program together and run that [ __ ] because everything you see around you that is amazing was built to an organized effort there's a camera right there that camera right there lens and everything so pristine so precise
52:00 - 52:30 everything all the machine components do you think someone just drafted that I like h fine go go some guy canons ah good enough no no they took [ __ ] years they planned everything out so if you want to be a machine yourself don't you think you should have some kind of logical structure to the [ __ ] oh I agree when we just ranting it each other no it is just I mean it is it's it's comforting in a way two old men rant well it's it's I mean I'm so many you probably are too I'm in so many conversations that contradict the [ __ ] that we're talking about sure yeah and and it's like oh
52:30 - 53:00 [ __ ] okay do I want want to bother that's the first question like do I even want to bother like no no whatever you're right okay cool go and with the um the one thing with the app which was kind of funny because it's going back to this this exact thing is it the user error was was big on my part because there's like three or four the big ones I guess I just found out a couple when I started creating this meso that you can actually make a new exercise and right and I'm like [ __ ] okay that's not us it's not visible enough in the app
53:00 - 53:30 that's not a bad thing though that's not a bad thing because of what you exercises do these well that's what that at first that's what I'm thinking right because I'm like okay it's a hypertrophy app it's for it's just this population I [ __ ] this up more yeah if if they restrict the [ __ ] movements that you can do and they just keep the basic movements and there's less variance less variables for people to [ __ ] up maybe they're doing this on purpose right I'm like okay cool it's still a horizontal press like or Vertical Press whatever is Boom make a note this is what I did I
53:30 - 54:00 got a million things in here I got a zillion variations but still stay with the same one for the period of time and um so that was another one of those things like okay I get it it's forcing people to actually do the things that they should do in this way and then I'm like then then the other part of me was like this get really [ __ ] crazy if you just let everybody make every movement then it goes into a database yeah here's the thing is it that is actually a thing you can make any
54:00 - 54:30 movement you want you can train with exclusively custom exercises is it going to be the best experience for you there are some group of people for whom it will for most people just picking the [ __ ] you have at a gym another common question we get is can I use this in my garage gym yeah for every single [ __ ] muscle group there's a ton of exercises something surely you have at your garage gym just a barbell squat front squat dumbbell something or other with your you know dumbbell uh um what's it called like uh split squad or some [ __ ] you
54:30 - 55:00 just pick all that and you can absolutely make it into a great garage program use the tools you have accessible to you to pick exercises that you like if you need to use exercises that don't exist yet what we do with those is every time someone makes a custom exercise entry it hits our database it reverse hacks you it strips your social security number and we just all your bank accounts are [ __ ] gone uh but before that part it does is it sends it to us and we have a continual stream of suggested exercises what my
55:00 - 55:30 colleague Jared and I are going to do he's a pro bodybuilder he looks like he lifts weights and I just look like a fat guy um he also has a head of hair you where when did that leave I have no idea us Old Kings you know what I mean I don't know it was in the air the Plastics right yes of course I'm comfortable blaming the Plastics not a lifetime of andin abuse that has nothing to do with it so we take all the exercises and we'll find out which ones people really want the most like the most votes for essentially and then
55:30 - 56:00 we're going to probably twice a year go and film all of these with professional instruction so that they're included in the app over time we started with a a decent we have 250 exercis in the app it's not like few but there's all kinds of variations of this and that we're like we're not sure how many people actually use these like I I I guarante you right if you're the only person requesting that we make in a custom exercise we will not do it well it's still going to stay in their database totally absolutely stays in your app for the rest of app time but um if we're going to film an official video about it
56:00 - 56:30 and get it to go really as a real exercise oh at least a few people are going to have to request it and there's tons of exercises we're going to end up putting in there my thing is it's going to hurt my soul when it's like hey single leg glute Bridge hip thrusts for women bikini shows is an exercise that appeared 190 times Jared you have to be the one to demo this I'm not doing it oh I get yeah yeah yeah yeah I'll put in some conjugate as [ __ ] things God damn it just ridiculous things to be a to throw out there just so you can see it be like the [ __ ] is this B one hand you'll know
56:30 - 57:00 the other hand the mer health is a premium tele Health platform specializing in hormone optimization and preventative medicine are you looking to optimize your health in and out of the gym improve recovery sex drive and quality of life have you tried speaking to your health professional about this and have gotten the cult shoulder stereotyped or just told as part of getting older just go to mer health.com backtalk and you can create your own lab or you can take Labs that we've had set up for them which are based upon the same Labs
57:00 - 57:30 that I've been doing over the last 15 years or you can use their guided optimization with this they'll put you in touch with a patient care coordinator which is actually pretty cool because you get to sit down and speak to somebody that can understand what you're looking for from hormone optimization and the preventive medicine standpoint after that conversation they'll determine which Labs that you should and which test you should have done and then from there get the labs done they'll review those labs with you and put you in touch with one of their hormone
57:30 - 58:00 optimization Specialists that can determine which supplementation that you should use over the counter or prescription mer health.com talk the discount code is table talk with I understand how the weight progression is going and how the exercise selection is going we kind of talked on that um I think you have videos where you're laying this all out your they're still coming out on YouTube the one piece of the stew I haven't figured out is how are you progressing the volume oh
58:00 - 58:30 boy well that's proprietary yeah I fig tell all right so let how you progress in the volume I'm kidding I I know I know you're kidding but I want to I want to ask the question a little bit differently because I don't want people to think it's solely just the app right because they can progress the volume themselves yes you know so how do you look at progressing the volume through training theoretically and Hy theoretically and then how the app does and then how you can modify okay sweet let's see if I remember all that so oh
58:30 - 59:00 damn I look pretty jacked on this what up this a vein hey all right and that's good enough prep is over um so theoretically there is a distinction between sets weight and Reps weight and Reps attend to the quality of the individual set the analogy for weight is like the quality of a meat in cooking the analogy
59:00 - 59:30 for reps is the perfect amount of time that you cook that meat for the analogy for sets is how much meat are you making because if someone's like look I'm training with just pure junk volume like my weight's too light or too heavy my reps are too high or too low close to failure point it's like can I just do more sets to make up for it
59:30 - 60:00 look yeah if you go to a restaurant and they give you a [ __ ] [ __ ] meat that's cooked too long or too short and it comes out shitty and you're eating it you're like this sucks like do you want extra for free you're like no God damn it I want it done right and then I might order two staks if it's really good so to put it another way when you're determining how much weight to put on the bar how many reps you're going to do how close to failure essentially you are determining the quality of each set and your number one goal sparing no expense no trade-offs is to make each set as
60:00 - 60:30 high quality as possible sometimes that means one high quality set is all you need like a real good high quality one set of stiff-legged deadlifts or good mornings can actually [ __ ] your hamstrings up for three or four days that's it you do one set you're done but more often than not you're going to need more than one set and then the next question is post theoretically how much more is it 10 is it five is it three and the answer is however much it takes to sort of check two boxes one was it a sopic a sufficiently
60:30 - 61:00 robust stimulus to give you good adaptation you're not going to get big legs doing one set a week of [ __ ] legs I don't care what the [ __ ] Arthur Jones said or kv8 or whatever the [ __ ] it's going to be more than that the second question is how much more the answer to that is can you still recover to hit it again when your plan session occurs so for example let's say I have bench on Monday bench on Thursday and I only bench for chest to keep it simple
61:00 - 61:30 if I do one set of bench on Monday I will completely recover by the end of Tuesday Wednesday I will spend in a state of just sitting around not getting better probably not getting worse muscle hangs in for a while sure [ __ ] not getting better Thursday I hit it again like all right great the app will ask me literally the RPI perch for app will be like hey like how sore did you get last time you did this you're going to be like barely and then next Monday it's going to give you two sets instead of one because because it wants to push you up until that point to where you just healed Wednesday night you come in
61:30 - 62:00 Thursday and you're like ah okay now it's time to rock and roll because that means you spent the maximum amount of time growing as much as possible just healed on time to have another excellent workout and then you're going the delay should be minimum between when you're ready to go and when you hit it again and there's two ways to [ __ ] that up one is training with two few sets you peal days ago it's fine but you're sitting around not gaining muscle why would you be doing that the other one is you do too many sets and then like you come in to hit legs and you're like I [ __ ]
62:00 - 62:30 can't walk still the [ __ ] am I doing here and the answer is not much of anything productive there's the outside the scope of the the discussion I'm sure we get into it if you want but there's a lot of uh people will say like a soreness doesn't matter for growth that's the biggest hunk of [ __ ] I've ever tried to swallow in my life and I've tried to swallow a lot of things in my life oh god really just a few things of certain shapes yeah that was a professional swallower if you can believe it it's a truck stop job I was never paid for it by the way it's volunteer work it
62:30 - 63:00 put you through college the truckers love it put something through me I'm kidding I'm done I have to stop put me through something therapy so soreness is at least going to prevent you in most cases as a trained athlete from giving your best performance at the time if you're still super [ __ ] up and sore you're not going to hit your [ __ ] regular PRS it would be better if you trained fewer sets Monday healed
63:00 - 63:30 by Wednesday versus Monday healed by next Monday and then Thursday you're kind of like what the [ __ ] and had a healed high quality workout on Thursday so the way the app does it which comports exactly with the theory is if you do start with a certain number of sets and the app always starts you low one of the reasons it starts you low is because when you accumulate a lot of fatigue from too much soreness it's stuff to clear off the plate it's extra junk that's going to follow you the rest of your Mesa cycle if it's not enough fatigue you can always [ __ ] get more
63:30 - 64:00 no worries another thing is we want to really really instantiate and reward quality of training so if you see that the appen the first week gave you two sets of [ __ ] you're going to be like well I got to go [ __ ] pretty hard and good technique and really get a lot of stimulus great that's what we want for these [ __ ] sets to be good and hard so that you don't have to add junk volume sets you only need to add sets if you really need to add them and then after your first sessions get done of of the first half week of of training roughly the next half week and then the
64:00 - 64:30 week after after after the app asks you questions about hey like how recovered are you how sore are you and if you answer like this [ __ ] was really easy on average the algorithm is a little complicated it's going to say yeah more sets next time but if you're like o I'm recovering oh just right it's not going to touch a [ __ ] thing you're going to have the exact same number of sets you did last week which is oftentimes something that happens to to a lot of people in training their last two or three weeks of training their rep their sets won't change much just they hit that sweet spot of like w three sets of
64:30 - 65:00 rows four I'm [ __ ] two not enough three is perfect and then if you go overboard the app will be like a bro bro like you're still sore like yes next week the five sets of leg press that got you sore will be four sets of leg press because it's like oh five was too much literally via your experience so the good thing about the app is you don't have to hack the responses you just tell it exactly how you're feeling and it will [ __ ] do all the under the but magic that is exposed in the books that we have and then the YouTube videos no
65:00 - 65:30 secrets and it'll just be like hey like you should do this much volume now the last thing is the app is a computer system and sometimes it gets things not exactly correct and you can always if you want modulate the volume yourself so all you do is just go to the exercise menu which gives you all the tools you can add plus set or minus set you can add as many [ __ ] sets as you want or go down to one set we don't care and then once you do that for next week the app operates based on those sets so it believes you when you tell it no it should be five sets it doesn't say last
65:30 - 66:00 time it was three this next time it's going to be three again I know you hit five but whatever no no no if it's five this time it's like okay next time it's either going to be four or six uh because it believes that your input is intelligent that's another real quick thing we design the app as a core user is an intelligent person who gives a [ __ ] about their results and knows a few things they know how to [ __ ] train they want an organized system that just offloads that that cognitive load of training more onto the computer Less on their brain so they can go [ __ ] hard
66:00 - 66:30 pay attention to technique pay attention to motivation pay attention to that one big ass [ __ ] in the gym you know what I'm saying she's on that Tre [ __ ] why you girl why you on that treadmill get over here say what's up to your boy but in any case uh I want to do that [ __ ] instead of having to think of all the rote thinking of volume progression because like if you watch our videos read our books the [ __ ] is all just mathematics like how many reps or sets should I add how many how much of this should I do it's all just math do you like to do math in the gym I love math I don't like to do it in the gym app can do it for me then I can focus on
66:30 - 67:00 everything else so when you modify things in the app it goes oh you're the expert if not going to say hey you might not want to do that the core user is someone who [ __ ] knows [ __ ] like is the app going to teach you anything about lifting you've been lifting longer than the [ __ ] iPhone has been a thing know sense that was meant as a compliment I'm a I'm a I almost said A Relic right not a it'd be funny if you were like what's an iPhone oh [ __ ] but you know we trust that core user knows their [ __ ] and then will check the app if it's off and over time
67:00 - 67:30 the app learns to do that less there's there's things that because I've been lifting weight since before the iPhone actually actually before a computer well not before an accessible computer in a home that's intense yeah so it's before that you know yeah I mean the company started because my brother built a computer for me in '98 and it was the first time I ever had a computer he put it together spare parts you here brother must be a smart [ __ ] cuz to build a computer back then you needed to know [ __ ] well he worked it for BF goodr or
67:30 - 68:00 something like that so he had a bunch of [ __ ] in there and of course I'm on there like oh computer internet dial up can it Shock Me with electricity you know training like oh it was interesting he didn't type in adult films the first thing well of course I went there right but you had to download images it wasn't videos it's just all imag downloaded line by line oh forever too you know you wake up in the morning and you have like B what kind of like Bots I would download the images for you and wake up in the morning be like 400 new Imes like w yeah this is awesome hard drive's full
68:00 - 68:30 computer doesn't work got to call my friend yeah got got to call friend that knows how to fix this [ __ ] finds the hard drives full of porn and then there's you know real quick real I have to p on this tangent I had this is uh uh obviously this story is going to be predictable I had it's sometime in like the somewhere between 2005 and 2008 or 2005 and 2010 I forget when um I think it was in grad school and I brought a laptop into Best Buy because it died
68:30 - 69:00 yeah because you know like it was the blue screen of death it was like a hard drive system some nerd [ __ ] I don't [ __ ] understand blue screen bad uh right and so I'm like smart enough to know that too stupid to fix it so I went to Best Buy and they were like you know like they're such nice guys The Geek Squad or whatever and I was like they're going to like um you want us to try to get the hard drive data off as much as possible I was like yes and they're like is it okay if we ask you what's on it I was like absolutely porn mhm and it's valuable to me damn it I spent hours
69:00 - 69:30 looking for that [ __ ] it's exactly what I like uh yeah long story short they couldn't they couldn't [ __ ] save it D oh I'm sorry to hear that that's okay that that's you know thank God they came up with external hard drives right and then yeah my serious friends I remember one of my buddies got like a terabyte drive and I was like what's on he [ __ ] you thinks on and I was like you're the man yeah I never went the external drive Road it never streaming caught me and yeah no no that a whole another level where I was going was what
69:30 - 70:00 what I've realized with the whole hypertrophy thing because it's always been phases of my training my whole life it's well a couple few year periods it was the whole thing a lot of the [ __ ] I take for granted so even if I had a training log and I wrote down what this was here's the sets or I remember here's the weight that I was using the things that you're talking about is I remembered from last time I barely had enough left or I got way too [ __ ] sore so I downregulated right
70:00 - 70:30 where most people I know only upregulate they forget what happened sure right so then they just they're they're burying their dick in the dirt you know so they can't they can't for they can't stretch a movement to me long enough to get the benefits because they they took maybe maybe a week to get acclimated then killed it yeah and then they come back and it's like [ __ ] I can't they can't progress right and that assumption that
70:30 - 71:00 I think many make with the hypertrophy work is why exercises change so frequently because they just go batshit crazy and they don't think of how can this progress for four five six week period that uh very wise I can't agree more there's um two ways to approach training one is the intellectual way
71:00 - 71:30 which is to realize that the reason you are training is to get a set of outcomes like you want to be more jacked or strong or athletic or whatever it is and that what you're dealing with is a complex adaptive system as a human body and you have to like an engineer put inputs to try to get certain outputs that's one way to see training another way to see training is a psychological um almost sublimation process where you know things happen to me in my childhood I still haven't forgotten about and godamn it that's what the
71:30 - 72:00 squat for reps is for I live that [ __ ] every time it is therapy and I [ __ ] love it and I'm here to trash myself what a lot of people will say in in my area of the world is the psychological part of the training is [ __ ] stupid you're a child you're not in the gym for therapy be a machine do What machines do input output don't just bury your [ __ ] dick in the sand don't [ __ ] Crush yourself with volume think
72:00 - 72:30 of how many weeks do I have to progress and how hard do I have to go in week one so that I have room to progress in week two three and four and also that week four means I can't progress anymore like I've done it all that's great that is the best way to train but at the end of the day if I didn't have serious psychological issues the [ __ ] would I be bodybuilding for like every now and again you know it's fun to make other make of other people uh just you know light-heartedly so say oh you know those social justice war and their purple hair [ __ ] idiots and clearly
72:30 - 73:00 they just got bullied in middle school now they think they're like somehow understand how World social justice works but in reality you know I'm saying this but if I walk through like University of Michigan and Arbor son of social justice Warriors they look at me accurately are like that man has clear issues cuz the [ __ ] happened to his face he sure [ __ ] wasn't born like that like what is he trying to drive that psychologically that gives him this protective shell of big muscles or whatever there's so much truth to that so yes be a scientist be a logician be
73:00 - 73:30 an engineer with your training make sure you're designing your training like it's supposed to look if you want the best results second priority is your psychology is not off the table is absolutely a priority and then intelligently within each set when it's time to go hard you turn that [ __ ] Switch and Go hard so it's taking your need for therapy your need to [ __ ] trash yourself to feel like a human being but putting it into a container that's logically leveled with water and
73:30 - 74:00 then so you get the best of both worlds you get the best training outcome because at the end of the day like this is sweet uh and also you get an ability to really [ __ ] work I call that controlling your stupidity nice right so it it has to be there I mean for me it's always going to be there but then after I do something really stupid yeah then the processing has to happen yeah like later that night later that day like sometimes it's even before like it's a set you're like you know what I'm going to [ __ ] do then okay if I do this
74:00 - 74:30 then that means next week yeah is going to have to probably be a down week but that was supposed to be a heavier week so I can't I can go I can but only a little bit another thing I think a lot of guys do is they know that they're in the gym because of demons and therapy dope so am I see you at the gym but then they do [ __ ] in the gym that is so injurious so injury risking so fatiguing that they're setting themselves up for
74:30 - 75:00 getting out of the gym for a week or two or three months or their [ __ ] life don't do that man the gym means more to you so if it means being a bit more intelligent ramping down a little bit and then still coming back to train another day you can train into your 50s 60s and 70s no [ __ ] problem M but if you want to leave it all in the gym you know what people say like leave it all in the [ __ ] gym like well well hold on what am I leaving like my ability to come back to the gym later I don't want to leave that [ __ ] I want that [ __ ] coming out the door me so at some point
75:00 - 75:30 you have to be intelligent about saying look yeah I need this for therapy but because I need it for therapy today tomorrow next week next month I'm going to be a little bit at least a little bit measured with how much I do and the reality is most of that you can control with the number of sets one hard set isn't going to [ __ ] you up that much so if you really want to [ __ ] grind and you don't want any of this r nonsense I feel you 100% get our app one set everything per week and just go to failure and the next week stay one set
75:30 - 76:00 or add another set if you feel like it go to failure again you can have great results like that not the ideal results but if the therapy matters to you that much and every set needs to be [ __ ] War totally but just don't do that many sets also don't go really heavy you can do a lot of sets of six sub maximal work six sets of six no problem if it's a few reps away from failure you start grinding seven eight reps close to failure so much of that you have until your body [ __ ] disconnects like Mr Po head so I
76:00 - 76:30 would call those like a challenge set you know what meow would call and in my mind it's like how in the [ __ ] can you do more than like one or two of those in a whole day people claim to there's no goddamn way I mean you're [ __ ] puking and [ __ ] I mean it's all kind I mean after that it's like [ __ ] then then you're realistically going with like what exactly her [ __ ] leg extension is going to do for me right now that this just didn't you move my legs anymore I'm going to [ __ ] die you know and then you know now I guess you
76:30 - 77:00 could down regulate it and just not be as hard for the whole time some people can that's a good idea you say Okay I I want to go all the way to failure but I'm going to go three rep shy failure whatever that number is and then next week the app is going to put five pounds on for me or add an extra rep and I'm going to meet that challenge and then the next week I'm going to meet the next challenge next challenge over time you just get [ __ ] stronger eventually you'll hit failure you have to you're not going to get get linearly stronger forever but it guarantees that your training gets harder over time which is really cool you can do that that's
77:00 - 77:30 really intelligent you can also just go to failure with moderate reps every set if you insist you just have to understand you're making a conscious tradeoff optimal results just a bit off but the psychology is something you might like sometimes I've been in a lot of debates about training to failure and a lot of them end with well it's just what I like to do look that's [ __ ] great just understand you have trade-offs you know like I like to go like running around naked with just a trench coat like at the mall my parle
77:30 - 78:00 officer said that like this is going to be trade-offs to say great spent few months every year in rehab in jail and they let me back out see it's when the training to failure becomes interesting in my mind because what do we it's kind of like specificity is like what are we really talking about like in the powerlifting World they talk about I I'll use a Comp lift as an example example I've said this before like to me a Comp lift is you're in the meat you know you you have
78:00 - 78:30 to take it out wait for a squat command hit depth and they're going to say rack that is a Comp lift yeah the walk out the squat the command the walk back all right so a triple is not a Comp lift you know so if you're talking specificity you're already one standard deviation Away by doing a double or a triple it's not the comp lives totally so how many degrees of separation are we allowed to have in this conversation a specificity and so where are we starting from that's the key thing sure like what's that so
78:30 - 79:00 the failure is kind of like that too so the example I can make there is I can do a set the failure just muscle [ __ ] every rep up yeah or I can do one with really controlled Tempo you know muscle you know contraction you know full range of muscle mind muscle and when it starts to get hard resist wanting to muscle [ __ ] it resist wanting to put more Tempo in it just let it [ __ ] fail yeah my
79:00 - 79:30 ability to recover from that failure is totally different than hit the ammonia and just go 100% compensatory acceleration on every single rep and just hit that [ __ ] now that failure is a different failure yeah but you see what I'm saying so when these conversations happen I always sit there and I'm like dude like can you guys agree on a [ __ ] definition yeah first to to me there's only one and what is that that is the second example of doing good technique and mind muscle
79:30 - 80:00 connection and not starting to muscle [ __ ] it when you get tired because if you ask the question of what is the purpose of doing a set to failure in which your Technique breaks down completely I have yet to come up with a cogent answer to that question that satisfies me and allows me to say yeah that makes sense what is exactly the point of like just rocking back and forth on curls is it an emotional thing does it allow you to just really like feel yourself or some [ __ ] like that is it pure ego yeah it's pure ego that's
80:00 - 80:30 what it is if you want to go to failure in a way that is conducive to muscle growth and minimally fatigues you you're just going to do just your biceps that might even hurt more it might be challenging to have to think of good technique while you approach failure but while that is challenging that is also the hallar Hallmark of an advanced lifter is someone who as failure gets closer and closer their technique might even get better because get more locked into the movement that's the real hardcore way to train poose to failure to failure that whole idea that you just
80:30 - 81:00 like clip in and just [ __ ] go I see people do like leg press just [ __ ] go like well how deep do we take a pause of just go you just end up doing these little wiggle reps and stuff like yeah man [ __ ] handled nine plates aside for shut up shut the [ __ ] up you know I don't even know what handled means mean lifted because you did you just had a seizure on the [ __ ] black press so I think it's always important almost always n [ __ ] always good technique first with good control good Tempo whatever Tempo you choose you
81:00 - 81:30 stick to it and then failure is in the context of that afterward and it's to me there's not a time in the gym where you're going to jettison your Technique and just go that brings you more fatigue for no extra stimulus less stimulus actually because all of your other muscles start to contribute the muscle Target muscle can get a little bit of a break higher increase of a probability of injury what else what is the plus side no one's ever explained the plus side to me when
81:30 - 82:00 I have clinics and I teach lifters how to do the accessories I think should be trained like a bodybuilder I I've always felt that way right because I just don't see the logic and muscle [ __ ] what you're doing you're building you're trying to build why the [ __ ] you do accessories and so the way I'll explain it to them is use when it's controlled what they typically will do is they'll keep it controlled but then because it says 10 or 12 they get loose to get the 10 or 12 sure and they might have actually failed at eight you know so I'm
82:00 - 82:30 like all you're doing is kicking the can down the road for sure you know which makes no sense to me like just let it but a lot of people get locked in because it says 8 10 12 I got to do 12 right like that's just a marker it's it's a you know it's it's the goal but it's not the outcome you know that's so true there's I don't know if this is is true and this is very obscene but uh apparently I don't again I don't know don't crucify me for this but apparently
82:30 - 83:00 there's some like sects of religion I've heard it's Mormons I don't know if I believe that um or maybe like the the Pennsylvania Dutch what are they called uh God damn it Amish Amish Amish okay I don't know who I'm I'm sorry to all these groups yeah forget I said that just some there's apparently group of people that like these people these people you people uh they will have they'll be in a bed together and with a significant other
83:00 - 83:30 and they'll like someone will rock the bed so they're technically not having sex but the sex is occurring so that they don't commit the sin of extramarital sex but at the same time the someone else is pushing the bed up and down so the sex still happens and I'm always like do you God created the whole world right do you think he can't see what you're doing you can't read your thoughts you're trying to lie to God who is
83:30 - 84:00 everywhere what are you nuts that kind of thing to me is similar to like saying oh I had eight reps really but I'm going to do 10 and write 10 of my [ __ ] because I had to do this are you lying to your muscles you don't think your biceps got the tension transduction message of exactly and only your bicep tension do you think that if you hip into it and get 10 reps your biceps are like oh hey fellas he did 10 it wasn't eight go go grow more muscle no they're going to be like that was eight actual reps of tension and two reps of the glutes did
84:00 - 84:30 all the work so like we're going to cause eight reps of growth and then the glutes get two reps of dog [ __ ] not whatever just fatigue basically because it's not that hard for them to do you can't lie to your body you got to train a muscle you got to expose that muscle to the tension put it in a position where it's not its strongest maybe but in a position where it is leveraged to exposed to tension like if you do proper bicep curls if you sit up real tall and you stretch out and you get the bicep
84:30 - 85:00 back here it pulls the [ __ ] apart I don't like how that feels I don't like the fact that I I'd rather swing the weight up but I have to use my bicep I don't like anything about it it burns my bicep it hurts I can't use much weight but the thing is because it burns my bicep and because it hurts and because the tension has to come from the bicep it also gets all the chemical messaging that says cause growth cause growth cause growth so if you want to get away from having to do the work with your chest your biceps your back what ever it is yes you can put more reps into your [ __ ] tracker and your RP hypertrophy app uh there's nobody reading those reps
85:00 - 85:30 the AI system reads them it doesn't Val Jud 10 reps it's going to believe you you don't get the growth of that [ __ ] it's like liking your own post on social media nobody cares nobody cares but if you don't like your own post why should somebody else like the post I'm St let me hold up let me like all my own posts yeah yeah let's take a bathroom break real quick and we're going to come back and talk about nutritional aspects perfect gotta I want to let you guys know that
85:30 - 86:00 we just had a limited edition drop on the website last week of new items that sweatshirt flannel t-shirts shorts basically are the limited edition items are the items that directly support the tabl Talk podcast so if you go to elitefts.com back limited edition or actually just the link in the description you can find the limited edition items that we have now
86:00 - 86:30 which there's the one that I like the best is the [ __ ] suck good great which is all emojis the designs I always like the best right they're the ones that don't sell for [ __ ] you know but they're the ones that I want to wear that I like the best and there's the there's the cigar one as well and they're all there on the screen for you guys to be able to see so if you go to elitefts.com back/ limited edition the the other thing that directly helps support the podcast that I haven't talked that much about is the
86:30 - 87:00 tabl talk crew the table talk crew is extra Edition episodes that go out once a month the content of those episodes are AMA related Quest related that come from the table talk Discord Group which is also part of being in the crew when you're in the crew there's dozens of ebooks that are in there there's every seminar that we've ever done is put on there there's
87:00 - 87:30 courses that are put on there there's series that have put on there the original YouTube channel that we had for many years that we before we migrated to the newer one all that old content is on there there's discussion groups for just general Training Fitness life nutrition basically everything that you can think of on so just go look at what that is or better than that just go to the description click on join the crew that
87:30 - 88:00 helps directly support the podcast which is how we're able to keep this thing rolling
88:00 - 88:30 is brought to you by first attachment are you looking for a supplement brand that truly understands hardworking athletes look no further than first attachment wd's Real World experience is what I would consider and they consider battle tested I've known Justin Harris
88:30 - 89:00 for pretty close to two decades and if there's anybody that I trust with nutritional and supplement needs it's Justin Harris if you guys have followed me and have followed the podcast you pretty much already know how I feel about the supplement industry for me to get behind any brand I have to trust the brand and I have to trust the person both and I'm pretty sure you guys all know watch when it comes to creating formulas and putting products on the market and there's nobody that I trust
89:00 - 89:30 more than Justin Harris while I love all of their products I'd suggest that you check out the field rations in WTH first go to www.first detachment. comom and use the code tablet talk1 to save 10% off each order the link is in the description today's episode is brought to you by element a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't in other
89:30 - 90:00 words no sugar no artificial coloring no artificial ingredients no gluten no fillers and no BS with the element I love the watermelon the watermelon tastes freaking awesome I drank one pack every day no matter what people that train out here it's sitting out here for them all the time the boxes don't last very long right now element is offering table talk listeners there's a free sample pack with any purchase that's eight single serving packages free with any element order get yours at drink
90:00 - 90:30 element.com talk the deal is only available through the link in the description the other thing is if you don't like it you can just give it away to a salty friend and element will give you a 100% refund no risk money back guarantee head over to Tran element.com talk am health is a premium tele Health platform specializing in hormone optimization and preventative medicine
90:30 - 91:00 are you looking to optimize your health in and out of the gym improve recovery sex drive and quality of life have you tried speaking to your health professional about this and have gotten the cold shoulder stereotyped or just told as part of getting older just go to mer health.com backet talk and you can create your own lab or you can take Labs that we've had set up for them which are based upon the same Labs that I've been doing over the last 15 years or you can use their guided optimization with this they'll put you in touch with a patient care coordinator which is actually
91:00 - 91:30 pretty cool because you get to sit down and speak to somebody that can understand what you're looking for from hormone optimization and the preventive medicine standpoint after that conversation they'll determine which Labs that you should and which test you should have done and then from there get the labs done they'll review those labs with you and put you in touch with one of their hormone optimization Specialists that can determine which supplementation that you should use over the counter or prescription amerahealth.com
91:30 - 92:00 talk the discount code is tabl talk especially in this industry and we're back we can keep going on hypertrophy forever because I I think that was most of what we talked about on the last podcast as well um I want to segue bit off to that even though nutrition does play a role but before doing that I want to point out that your
92:00 - 92:30 app link is in the description and give you a little Spiel on because it when does it go live live yeah so May 23rd so soon soon in like about a week yeah it goes live but it's the open paid beta which means it is sorry not open just paid beta but so we'll ask you for money if you want to use the app and it's going to be like a $1,000 a
92:30 - 93:00 second yeah oh yeah exactly per rep and um then for about three weeks only the people that sign up that have signed up so far over the last couple weeks and will sign up until May 23rd they're going to be allowed in for about 3 weeks we shut down any new entrance and they get directed to continue to wait and then right around mid June we are going to release the open Beta to everybody not just the sign up people if
93:00 - 93:30 you sign up you also get a ton of free stuff tons of like we're actually sending out entire books and guides and exclusive videos so if you want the app sooner than later oh yeah also it'll be cheaper if you get it sooner uh signing up in the next week is a really good idea uh and because you're signing up just to be on the list so you don't have to pay anything once the app comes out May 23rd we'll send you an email and say hey like Go download your app if you want um pretty no risk situation but if you miss that deadline you're watching this video later if it's R roughly May 23rd
93:30 - 94:00 and roughly June 15th still click on the link and it'll send you to the next weit list and then after June 15th is hypothetically we just open it up to everyone all right so that gives you time to work all the bus yeah to make sure it's a settled release what I've been using it's been pretty solid I haven't had any issues but I most of my work I on my phone so I have to I'm using an iPhone right so I'm not I'll build the meso I'm my actually the iPad
94:00 - 94:30 was way better than my computer you slide everything around and everything way better like crazy better you can build so this is a progressive web app so it'll work on every single platform it'll work on your tablet it'll work on your laptop it'll work on your desktop if you build Mesa Cycles on your desktop it's a good dream come true it's so fast cuz like and the mouse just it's better than the F I want my hands replaced with mice I don't know if I said that wrong I
94:30 - 95:00 don't think you thought that through very well to be honest with you because if if it's if if your hands are mice then you're only how you going to rub it out oh the computer does that don't worry the future I've already planned I've already planned for this don't you ever just get tired of rubbing out yourself couldn't a machine do this better than me you think oh yeah yeah I think there are machines you don't to are there I don't know like a flashlight right but there has to be a flashlight
95:00 - 95:30 that's automatic yeah cuz I'm not I'm not moving it around I've done enough of that my life one we keep going down this [ __ ] up road yeah this is a Road to Nowhere the the one thing I I didn't like about the app that worked out to be a little bit of a benefit is I I hate my phone when I train right so I do I hate it so I leave it on the table which I get more steps now if I'm over there I
95:30 - 96:00 got to walk back after eek's exercise to kind of put the [ __ ] in there instead of doing it all after the training which I I'm not smart enough to do that I can't remember long enough yeah [ __ ] that it's like so it's after each movement even with the movement it's like H yeah sometimes after each movement a lot of times after each set I'll just type it in yeah so it's I didn't think I was going to like it at all be complet completely honest a lot of people don't like a lot of people who have done a thing for a while the last people to get an app for it and they
96:00 - 96:30 have their way of doing thing that they they like apps are often for people that don't do a thing often and then you give them an app and they're like oh oh this is great I'll use this what we try to do with hypertrophy app is to make it an app for people that already lift and know how to train so there's just as you notice there's not a lot of fluff in there it's like pick your movements here's week one hit it choose your weight type in your reps hit the green check mark you finish the set
96:30 - 97:00 on to the next that's it we could have made it way fancier there was we were talking about you know what is our Target demographic are we trying to teach people how to lift weights in the app like if we put the app on the iTunes Store just regular people download it we do not want that it's like you know selling someone a formula car yeah I I can see that how do I drive this well if you have to ask buy a [ __ ] formula card so we I'm glad that you thought you were going to hate it but didn't totally
97:00 - 97:30 hate it yes um because then that means I think we designed it in a way that didn't have enough touch points to piss you off I mean imagine if like you had to scroll through like technique videos and a timer and no and I've seen that on other stuff you know I've had other things you know that I that I've used or somebody would send me and it's like ah God no I don't do all this [ __ ] you know this is horrible I just rather just use a notepad you know whatever it's just terrible or it's a PDF F you know a book
97:30 - 98:00 and then it's like what the [ __ ] now I got to find what page I was at I it's like yeah no it's like a nightmare about school restarting sh exactly with nutrition so I can get off of this [ __ ] topic can get into the nutrition which I wanted to talk last time is the let's stay with hypertrophy right because that I guess nutrition it's it's the same right hypertrophy I think hypertrophy hyper nutrition is probably more important for the hypertrophy if I'm looking at the
98:00 - 98:30 strength athlete yeah because if they go through that phase that they're supposed to go through that they don't go through but then when they do go through they don't go through it effectively they should be eating enough to actually Fuel and feed and grow the muscle today's episode is brought to you by first attachment are you looking for a supplement brand that truly understands hardworking athletes look no further than first attachment Wendy's real world experience is what I would consider and they consider battle tested I've known Justin Harris for pretty close to two
98:30 - 99:00 decades and if there's anybody that I trust with nutritional and supplement needs it's Justin Harris if you guys have followed me and have followed the podcast you pretty much already know how I feel about the supplement industry for me to get behind any brand I have to trust the brand and I have to trust the person both and I'm pretty pretty sure you guys all know why when it comes to creating formulas and putting products on the market and there's nobody that I
99:00 - 99:30 trust more than Justin Harris while I love all of their products I'd suggest that you check out the field rations and WTH first go to www.first detachment. comom and use the code table talk 10 to save 10% off each order the link is in the description so what are the basic benchmarks that you see people screw up there we know the Nuance we know everybody gets tied up in all this
99:30 - 100:00 stupid [ __ ] yeah with the basic you know grams of calories let's start there sure like where should the calories I think a lot of people make a mistake of just trying to search for some kind of calorie number that's the magic number like I had a lot of online questions of like excuse me how many calories do I need to gain muscle and it's like first of all you could have just Googled that and there's like 10 free calorie calculators to tell you based on everything the reality is you
100:00 - 100:30 don't actually even need to do that because what you can do instead is to figure out how much food you're eating now most people will be at maintenance automatically they just automatically eat enough food based on Hunger to like roughly maintain their current weight whatever it is you figure out you're eating through just tracking it super simply you increase that amount of food by something like 250 to 500 daily calories
100:30 - 101:00 that creates a surplus big enough to cause you good muscle gain not so big that it'll make you a fat mess really soon and then you just crank away at that [ __ ] for weeks and weeks and weeks and you measure your body weight couple times a week that's not going up by half a pound to a pound a week every week you need to eat a little bit more add another 250 calories in there if it's going up faster than a pound a pound and a half two pounds a week then you need to crank down on the calories to make it go up slow enough so that you don't get to be a gigantic fat mess that's more or
101:00 - 101:30 less all of all the calorie stuff and if you're dieting for fat loss it's the inverse of that so you start out with however much you're eating subtract well 500 to to 1,000 or 500 or 750 calories from that and then just continue to eat that until your weight loss slows down enough to where you're like I'm not losing as quick as I want to then you have to bump the calories down again in many cases what about their macros yeah because they say they start tracking I guess I can make it more simple just weigh
101:30 - 102:00 yourself every day if it's not going up or if it's not going down then your calories what you're eating is basically that's it maintenance but they don't know what it is sure right so the the adjustments off I guess if it's just eat more they could just eat more but usually that scale hasn't changed because they've tried to eat more but don't do it consistently enough to make the changes oh the consistency is a whole lot of the you know and I think the tracking can help if they don't know at least from the jump can help with the consistency of that but
102:00 - 102:30 when I would have going way back clients track things it's a mess like so before you started to deal or I would deal with um up or down it's just clean this [ __ ] like you're you're at a base level but this is popped heart I mean this is bad yeah um would you advise the same thing yeah definitely so I would say uh it depends on where they're coming from a lot of times people just don't know
102:30 - 103:00 how to eat nutritious foods and before you teach them macros you have to teach them good food choices bodybuilders powerlifters people have been involved in sport nutrition a while they know all that stuff already so they're looking for specific macro numbers which of course those exist but for a lot of folks you have to say Okay do you know what a lean protein source is a type of lean meat lean Dairy eggs Etc fish lean vegan
103:00 - 103:30 [ __ ] if they say yeah for sure here's three sources I typically eat you're good move on but it's like um I think so you're like oh [ __ ] here we go cuz they just like Pop-Tarts they just might not know and they're just eating all all kinds of junk and just have no idea what it is or they're eating good stuff but they don't know that it falls into a category so I say figure out some lean meats that work for you figure out some veggies some fruits and some whole grains figure out what healthy fat sources you want in addition to that
103:30 - 104:00 give folks examples of all of those just a few examples and broaden their Universe if they need that and then they're like okay I I know which typical foods to go to to build meals because when you look at how bodybuilders eat it's not just about the macros there's a lot of other similarities typically they build every meal around a lean meat with some kind of and some kind of whole grain or some kind of grain option and then they structure that meal over and over throughout the day with some
104:00 - 104:30 modifications and definitely over and over throughout the week so one big thing that I've seen work with a lot of people is first do you teach them this is what good food is this is what healthy performance enhancing muscle growing food is lean meats veggies fruits whole grains healthy fats and after watch this I'm going to piss off the entire people that are listening to it seed oils are the healthiest possible fats this is going to go very poorly uh hilariously seed oils are just fine and
104:30 - 105:00 totally healthy but that's neither here nor there that'll that comic will certainly get a lot of hate so um the once you have people understanding what healthy food is you can graduate them to teaching them how to make good meals out of it so we're starting from real Basics here so F so first I wouldn't even talk about calories mhm I just say okay you have a certain body weight wait I'm going to teach you how to eat clean essentially how to eat healthy here are the you know five or six examples of every food group Froman Meats veggies
105:00 - 105:30 fruits whole grains healthy fats that you need to focus on most of your intake and then if you find another food that goes into that category the absolute the honest answer is yes you can eat it because people be like what about salmon yes what about Tilapia shut the [ __ ] up yes the answer is does it look like a [ __ ] lean meat to you remotely yeah then yes sometimes people like one of my most hated things as as a coach back the day was like the one food at a time person client will text you and be like can I have this like this is not how this works I need to teach you
105:30 - 106:00 categories of stuff yeah once you get in the categories just practice eating mostly food from that healthy options list and less food from other stuff if you give a [ __ ] about how you look about how jacked you are and about if you're getting stronger or not then when you're okay I know what kind of foods to choose you're going to want to structure your meals probably eating four to six meals per day of roughly even size all of them built around a alen protein Source most of them built around a veggie source as
106:00 - 106:30 well most of them having a good number of whole grains in them some of them having fruit instead some of them have fewer carbs towards the end of the the night or something some have more in the morning round workout whatever it is but you basically just get in a meal structure and these meals are roughly evenly spaced together in the day you wake up in the morning you have something with protein in it every 3 to 5 hours you have something with protein in it sometimes it has carb sometimes it doesn't sometimes it extra fat sometimes it doesn't you eat on that pattern once you have someone eating in that pattern
106:30 - 107:00 they know what their go-to protein sources are carb sources fat sources Etc they know and have the Habit built of eating multiple meals a day at relatively similar times then it becomes productive to discuss macros with them because you've got to work around that whole popt situation if you just some give someone a macros app and like I just do these macros they're going to be like I the [ __ ] what real foods do I eat and if they try to do macros with shitty junk Foods it's hard it's like oh that
107:00 - 107:30 cheeseburger just took all my daily fats away from me hell am I supposed to do now like well the real answer was don't eat cheeseburgers all the [ __ ] time so once you give people the habit of eating well the meal structure of eating well you go on and you give them the macros specifically proteins carbs fats generally the rule there is roughly a gram per pound of protein per day so if you weigh 200 lb 200 g a day of protein I can talk about the nuances of that recommendation till no one is interested
107:30 - 108:00 anyone has questions um then your fats are something like3 to 0.5 grams per pound per day so if you weigh 200 lb that's something like 60 to 100 gram of fat per day is a good place to start for most people and then the rest you fill in to your daily calorie allotment based on body weight and how it's trending uh with carbohydrates and that's just basically how you construct diets you split that all up into meals we have the whole Renaissance diet 2.0 book RP makes that describes
108:00 - 108:30 all of that in mind numbing detail and there's tons of YouTube videos about that that's really the core of nutrition and then that thing you said a little while back before I got ranty was consistency and consistency is one of the most critical parts of because there's that Meme on the internet with uh a person's like I had like a salad am I healthy yet have I
108:30 - 109:00 lost weight yet and it's like no you need a few salads in a row so so at the end of the day consistency is what builds or what shreds if you're into that sort of thing and a lot of people struggle with consistency because consistency means that you are see if I can put my foot up on something I'mma put my foot
109:00 - 109:30 on stuff kind of guy uh consistency means that there will be times where you don't want to do some [ __ ] but you still have to do it there will be times when you're excited to do more but you still have to do the same thing for example if you're gaining weight on a muscle gain phase let's say after you got pretty lean in the first few weeks you have
109:30 - 110:00 your bowl of cereal after training with your weight protein sheet great choice you may want to have the whole box but your diet prescribes you only 2third of the box of cereal you're still a little bit hungry after that meal but unless you want to become a fat [ __ ] do not eat the rest stop when the meal is over wait till your next meal on the other hand you will get to the end of your muscle gain phase when most people quit week 11 12
110:00 - 110:30 13 14 where you look at the whole box of cereal you're supposed to be eating and you're like [ __ ] that I could eat a third of this box just never eat cereal again it doesn't matter you still eat the whole [ __ ] box and you drink your protein shake and you shut the [ __ ] up about it because you said you wanted gains and that means thick or thin fire or ice you got to eat your [ __ ] meals and it's imposing because sometimes you know there's four meals they have to eaten
110:30 - 111:00 the day you've eaten two of them and you're like I don't want to eat anymore still have to eat the other two meals or on a fat loss diet you're like you finish your food and you're like I could just keep eating and never stop that's how I feel that's nice here's your participation award for having feelings go to the end of the line and [ __ ] off because you have to do what you have to do so a lot of nutrition isn't so much the figuring out what to do that part
111:00 - 111:30 some people get stumbled on there's tons of fads and all this other stuff part of war and [ __ ] like that but uh at the end of the day the consistency is something that really really hits people and can you Empower yourself to help be consistent oh God yes but that takes its own willpower effort meal prep bulk meal prep if you meal prep twice a week put it on Tupperware gee you know you just have to eat the meals in the tupp Weare now is that something that's possible yes is that something that's easy at
111:30 - 112:00 first it's tough then it gets easier um there are ways to enhance that process and make it easier for now until robots start cooking our food for us which hopefully will happen sooner than later uh it's just some [ __ ] you're going to have to do and [ __ ] it even when the robots come and cook all your meals for you you can always be like hey robot cancel my 7 p.m. meal cuz [ __ ] that I'm not hungry or the robot will make your diet food you be like hey robot can you make me an extra enchilada and he's going to be
112:00 - 112:30 like that's not on your RP Diet app and you're gonna be like God damn it just don't tell Dr Mike like all right great so the consistency part's a killer and the way you get extra jacked or extra lean is just prolonged multiphasic consistency if you see someone on the Mr Olympia stage that's like jacked and shredded you can you can tell that for at least at least 5 to 10 years probably much longer they've been generally on average in a surplus of calories they
112:30 - 113:00 are uncomfortable they're eating an amount of food that they don't even want to eat constantly and then you can also tell because they have they super lean and super diced that at least for the last 12 to 16 weeks they missed out on eating the food that they wanted to eat wanted to eat it but they still didn't so one of the cool things about bodybuilding is you know people say like you see Pro bodybuilders on the stage and someone will be like dude that's a lot of hard work and dedication right there and of
113:00 - 113:30 course inevitably some trolls going to be like that's actually just steroids and they're like well word up looks like you can juice up and be on the ifb pro stage in in no time and the answer is both but uh steroids are you know crazy for me to say also require consistency yeah you don't just take one pill and it happens you take a pill every day and then after about a week you're having thoughts not comfortable with you don't sleep at all and you're sweating at night and you [ __ ] hate everyone and you hate yourself and you're like nope still got to take these stupid drugs to get this stupid result I
113:30 - 114:00 said I was going to do so it all comes down to consistency over time over weeks over months and over years and then people see you on a plane and they see your big arms and they see it ripped and they go hey uh what kind of what kind of diet are you what kind of diet got you like this you just want to be like [ __ ] generation of dieting that's what got me like this but they told me it's not nice to scream at random people on the planes so I don't do that anymore probably not with with the consistency though I don't know how to define what
114:00 - 114:30 I'm saying is the the consistency over a period of time in anything that you're wishing to master needs to become more disciplined what my the point I'm making is for the people that are listening mistakes that I see athletes make is they jump straight on the bodybuilding di chicken rice I'm going to do this four times a day it's too much it's too big of a jump where just [ __ ] eat two meals if you if you
114:30 - 115:00 don't if you don't have any structured meals just start with like three structured meals a day [ __ ] whatever it is yeah build that habit and then stack on it where I think some people jump so far ahead that some can do it but the mental discipline it takes them to do isn't sustainable once their show Peak goal meat whatever it is is achieved then they fall right back where it's
115:00 - 115:30 anything right so it's just work like there's a lot of days I don't want to [ __ ] work I have to I own the [ __ ] place I have to [ __ ] do it no matter what you know if I don't do the work [ __ ] and that doesn't matter what it is and there there's people that will see work you do work I do anybody it does and then think that's where they start sure and like no man it doesn't work that way you know in the one example I
115:30 - 116:00 can say because I see lifters do it all the time is they need to go through a hypertophy phase and we already bitched about that and then they go on chicken rice egg whites all just like they just printed some [ __ ] what dtra Jackson's diet from Google yes and then they do that it's like dude what the [ __ ] like right now you you [ __ ] you eat at the gas station for breakfast you have McDonald's for lunch and you're grabbing a pizza on the way home yeah you know
116:00 - 116:30 maybe there's tons of wisdom there so a lot of times if you demand a huge change the stickiness of that habit is going to be really low it's going to be tough to hang in there you don't have the skill set for it I would even say you might not have the desire for it yet so what when I was a younger lifter I learned nutrition fairly early decently well and what I did was I was very
116:30 - 117:00 cognizant of how much I was willing to put into my nutrition I would eat foods that I considered to be pretty good tasting very accessible that had enough protein carbs and fats and like were five meals a day and met my needs had a little junk here and there had a little [ __ ] here and there I never skipped on protein and I never chronically under or way over eight beyond the plan there's a ton of flexibility in there though as I got more serious about Sport
117:00 - 117:30 and bodybuilding I started to incrementally use more and more Precision in my dieting because I was mature enough psychologically to handle it I had already been so sustainable with everything else that these were just a another tiny little habit change that wasn't a lot in the big picture it didn't transform my life completely in one six-month go that's a tough ask and I think it leads people down down the wrong road
117:30 - 118:00 because then they have this sort of bipolar understanding of nutrition where they go either I'm eating like from the dumpster behind the [ __ ] Dunkin Donuts essentially or I am eating Phil Heath's exact diet for his 2014 Mr Olympia or whatever there's a lot of room between those two and even within a competitive season you should be a little bit one
118:00 - 118:30 side versus the other so in my offseason my mass gaining phase I'll have two to three cheat meals a week and what I use for my macros on some other meals can be like oh just have like three protein bars instead of like chicken and rice or whatever way more flexible as the pre-contest rolls forward theep deeper I get into contest prep the cheat meals go right away the Precision of the foods increases to get specific uh the water
118:30 - 119:00 retention all this other crap comes up and I become much more meticulous so even I don't do the same quote unquote healthier bodybuilding diet year round even that changes so when people on different parts of their Journeys when they're just starting to diet really the the idea is to get them to master the basics like all right how do I diet to lose this weight be like try making your diet healthier here's how you do it just that change they can lose 20 pounds in a few months people take their regular soda replace it with diet soda they take
119:00 - 119:30 their mostly what they eat as junk food and just try to get some [ __ ] decent food like you know a slice of meat some [ __ ] potatoes and some goddamn gravy on it even that's better than like I don't know a hot dog or some [ __ ] so you get people to do that and a lot of times they change for the better and then sometimes people will do harder diets more hardcore diets of really like okay just down to fish and rice and some broccoli and that's it make sure not to do those for too long so that you burn
119:30 - 120:00 out of them do them until you get the results that you're looking for that are realistic leaner whatever it is down 15 lbs once you get there reverse out back into normal Foods more slowly monitor your body weight to make sure it doesn't Skyrocket up that it stays roughly where you left it or a little bit up and then when you few months later when you feel like hey I can do another fat loss diet I'm ready for some restriction then you go and restrict one of one of my colleagues Dr Melissa Davis she's a neuroscientist and kind of our
120:00 - 120:30 diet psychology expert at RP one of the things she says that I think is Super Wise is the diet isn't forever and that means the fat loss diet you know as most people conceive of a diet fat loss diet same thing the fat loss diet is 12 weeks long let's say you don't need to eat like this the rest of your life what that helps you do is two things one it helps you gear in to the idea of eating in a very specific way and two it helps you avoid having to have cheat meals and
120:30 - 121:00 Off plan meals because like you're not there for a the long term it's okay if you just stick to the plan Pizza is not an extinct like it's not a [ __ ] bald eagle or some [ __ ] it's not going to fly away it's not going to go extinct there's always going to be pizza after the diet and it's good for you to have some pizza after the diet is over and if you understand that you can crush the diet follow the specific plan download the RP diet coach app sorry I got a weird cough Co um if
121:00 - 121:30 you do that you can survive reverse out intelligently after 12 weeks get back to more normal eating same basic core of good healthy foods just with some BS layered on top and not every meal is perfect and then when you want to tighten up again you again sink into the diet but people think you know hey I'm on a diet I'm going to cheat and have this one thing Di's not forever man you don't have to have [ __ ] cheat meals every
121:30 - 122:00 week well I wonder with with the training that we were discussing earlier just hypert train or strength training for that matter if if they're only watching their diet during prep per se but then and say the the lifts are going back to that and the offseason they're not really paying attention here there you know whatever um bodybuilders are going to be a little bit better right because they're more Cog sometimes but so but not all right that was the caveat not all they're by not having the
122:00 - 122:30 basics covered they're inhibiting their ability to recover from the most important training of the year which even for the bodybuilder the offseason's the most in my mind the offseason is the most important that's where you actually get better yeah yeah some people have started calling it The Improvement Season that's that's a better word yeah you're not off you're improving yeah those folks so it used to be I used to read a lot of B magazines back when people read
122:30 - 123:00 magazines and I was um often there was cryptic [ __ ] in bodybuilding magazines that doesn't make sense to you even if you lifter for a long time if you haven't been around drugs and if you haven't been around like a mentality of the average National level or average pro bodybuilder and um the drug stuff is is obviously like they're like yeah I'm trying this other food source now this other one did gel and get it only took me like up up until just a few years ago
123:00 - 123:30 to where it was like oh oh yeah you're on 600 milligrams of orals a day of course your stomach's a [ __ ] nuclear bomb and you have to eat only white rice because everything else makes you [ __ ] blood got it but the other part that always struck out to me was there were guys that were like yeah this I'm so pumped after this Pro win this offseason is going to be the [ __ ] [ __ ] man no more of the [ __ ] I used to do I'm going to eat every meal and make every workout count no skip workouts no skipped meals and I'm like this is the standard that you've
123:30 - 124:00 been holding yourself to like you finally treat this as a more than a participation sport there's a lot of guys in Pro ranks and not top National guys just really gifted [ __ ] and they will skip meals in the offseason they'll skip workouts there's guys I'm not going to say who they are that are known like appearing for a few months in the off season good news for them they usually come off all the gear too which is good but they'll just go away and they'll come back like way
124:00 - 124:30 smaller they don't train they don't eat hardly what just eat whatever they want and then they're like oh yeah it's time to get serious and it's like could have been growing for 6 months 3 months whatever it was and they just weren't so a lot of times being flexible with your dieting and saying look I'm still going to eat five meals a day on most days of course I'm still going to [ __ ] work out kind of person quits working out and I'm going to make sure these meals are mostly healthy but if I have to eat this whole meal of protein bars or just like
124:30 - 125:00 sometimes just like got candy bar plus a protein shake [ __ ] it if I get the calories I'm good and a few times a week I'll have some [ __ ] and it's no big deal then it relaxes you and allows you to have a sustainable offseason and also like on offseason you want to be able to eat a bit more food clearly and at some point you won't be hungry so if the food is tastier if you can make it using like like a good hack I hate this nutrition hack is you take uh um a low fat low calorie soup from the soup can aisle
125:00 - 125:30 they've got a lot of great options and you you heat up your chicken and rice and veggies and you pour the [ __ ] soup in there you mix it in you heat it up again that [ __ ] is good as [ __ ] and you can eat all your same [ __ ] plus the extra calories way faster cuz you know like smashing white rice and chicken in the offseason is like [ __ ] pain that very few people understand it is actually technically on an objective level easier at some point to do fat loss dieting than muscle gain dieting
125:30 - 126:00 here's why on a fat loss diet it's no problem getting your meals in all you have to do is resist the temptation to eat extra do nothing and you win can you imagine a marathon race or power me just don't do anything and you'll win that's how fat loss dieting works pretty good gig muscle gain dieting you have to have those three spoonfuls of chicken and rice in your mouth or you don't win at some point there's food that's all the way up to your throat and you're I'm going to throw up and you do and you
126:00 - 126:30 still eat that's [ __ ] hard so make it easier on yourself in the off seon by making sure that you're still eating plenty of tasty Foods the core Basics are there but a bit tastier and some junk food train hard as [ __ ] you'll get [ __ ] enormous you'll make great gains and then in the fat loss phase after then it's time to clean it up and and be perfect and machine like and all that stuff great but guys make two ends of that spectrum of mistakes some guys will just disappear or eat only junk and then
126:30 - 127:00 that doesn't work and then some guys will try to eat the perfect clean food meal prep plan for the entire off seon and like you were saying earlier they just burn the [ __ ] out who the [ __ ] can do that 12 months of every single meal is chicken and tilapia and rice and pasta like what the [ __ ] you don't have any donuts or any cupcakes the entire year like no [ __ ] that I'm a machine word up I sure hope you're right and the thing is some people are machine likee they love living like that that's how they eat that's how they live amazing
127:00 - 127:30 slow clap most of us are not like that pretending you're a [ __ ] Warrior is not going to make you a warrior do the best of what you can and if you want to get more serious over time with your diet great by all means but you can get unbelievable gains maybe the best gains of your life by eating like 85% good stuff and then 15% whole [ __ ] [ __ ] nonsense like Saturday night trained hard all [ __ ] week ate well all [ __ ] week is there a theoretical reason on a Mas gting phase that you
127:30 - 128:00 shouldn't be getting Chinese food or pizza I got all kinds of degrees in the [ __ ] I can't think of one go [ __ ] it up it's [ __ ] awesome uh one of one of my friends Trevor you had him on the on the podcast for Dr fenter The Impossible last name he uh he used to read a lot of of elite articles and they had one guy I forget who who it was uh maybe it was Mark Bartley there was like a hack maybe it was you it was like get get a pizza pour olive oil in the middle of it yeah that was and then you the taco pizza and
128:00 - 128:30 I thought that was quite inspirational and it did not stop you from Gaining all the weight you needed I guess but it's like a [ __ ] couple pizzas here and there some Chinese food's not going to [ __ ] kill you and it'll get you jacked and almost all the pros do that anyway so the mentality of like I got to be strict on my diet 247 365 that's [ __ ] just wrong uh on the other hand as pre-contest rolls around uh the time for pizza is come and gone and then you got to just eat the [ __ ] you have to eat which is
128:30 - 129:00 great because as you eat mostly good stuff and and some junk eventually you get a little fluffy you're really ready to start contest prep and you've also like psychologically eaten so much junk you're like kind of good with it you know what I mean like if you bring like uh you know like someone who's super horny and and you know like just 22 years old first strip club they're like oh my God like how long do you want to stay here like forever you after about 30 minutes like the [ __ ] out of here like you've had enough after 16 weeks of
129:00 - 129:30 eating pizza and Chinese food every weekend someone's like what do you think Pizza Chinese Taco Bell you're like whatever let's just start contest prep I don't even want the [ __ ] yeah I have actually had situations in my own muscle gain phases where I would eat clean instead of taking a cheat meal because I was just [ __ ] done eating you know like you eat so much junk food that junk food starts to look like it's [ __ ] poison and you're like I don't want that in me eat like a Twinkie and you feel the fat slide down your throat and
129:30 - 130:00 you're like God I'm not an athlete I know my favorite feelings yeah well it sucks because you still have to somehow or another you still have to get the calories in 100% right where you know I'd have times where I would eat ridiculous amounts of [ __ ] then the next day I'm behind the ball yeah right and it's like okay I can be behind the ball a little bit because I had like 8,000 extra calories last night but over a period of a week you end up being in a
130:00 - 130:30 deficit more than not yeah and like [ __ ] that did then you wonder it's like overtraining you know being berserk on one big Training Day nine challenge sets and all this other stuff did that one day just [ __ ] the whole week right d I got a question for you if this is okay what is your can you tell us a story about about like your most intense intentional run at trying to gain weight like how tough did it get to eat what were you eating how heavy were you can
130:30 - 131:00 you can you tell that story well it was it was Terri it was yeah it's a long process because when I I never even considered it until I came to Westside because at that point I was like 250 and I was competing in 275s and it's like eating clean 85% of the time and cool with all that like I'm a 275 I'll just gain into it like as the me you know drugs I'll gain a little bit as it comes then the last month I lose a little bit because you're peing and the muscle goes away well you lose a little
131:00 - 131:30 bit of the muscle too because it's you're low yeah and then when I came there Louis is like you're 308 I'm like [ __ ] 308 you're kidding me like I'm like 250 like maybe 260 yeah but you're a tall guy big before a me so then I started increasing calories on top of what I was already eating which is 85% good so you just start throwing then it becomes miserable really soon like the first 10 pounds not that big of a deal but then it's like [ __ ] this is terrible and it was like two 282 285 right around that
131:30 - 132:00 range and I never wanted to be a full 308 you know but 290 gave me enough room I like to bloat up into the last into the meat right and especially with the gear the gear felt a little better yes so it would be if I could be 292 I could be like 302 305 come day of the meat as long as I was there the last week I can I can blo my way into the into the class but that 292 from that 285 doesn't seem like a lot but was a
132:00 - 132:30 [ __ ] isn't it crazy it's like going from a 500 bench to a 600 bench terrible another 100 PBS like no it's impossible it was terrible cuz it was like I'm already at my threshold just to be that 285 and if I took my foot off the gas didn't pay attention and then weit in it's like 278 [ __ ] you know then it's back in and that's when JM kind of came in and gave me that stupid JM diet he's like do this you know you know eat three um three breakfast sandwiches from
132:30 - 133:00 McDonald's and put mayo put a hash brown in between the sandwich and then Mayo eat three of those and then for lunch have um Chinese food uh MSG make sure it's just loaded eat as much as you can until you're sweating then at dinner you eat a whole pizza and then cover it with olive oil you know put as much [ __ ] on there and then this is the funnier part every hour on the hour eat a Hershey bar carry them with you that way your blood sugar stays constant constantly high but constant right so that way you don't
133:00 - 133:30 have these fluctuations and I'm like all right [ __ ] it I'll do it you did that yeah and now the [ __ ] up part is when people see this story and I told it to Meadows they think I did this for like a year like this was like three weeks right you can't there are people to do it for a year and they're my 600 lb Life TV show no this was like a lifestyle yeah this was the like to get over for the speed bump yeah and it did and it was [ __ ] miserable and because it's and JM told me beforehand it's like you're going to be sitting there and you know how he talks real soft right you're
133:30 - 134:00 going to be sitting there at dinner he says that pizza man you got to put it on your coffee table right in front of the TV and you you [ __ ] put it you I you stare at it before you eat it yeah you stare at it like it's a battle between you and that [ __ ] pizza and you have to eat the whole thing and there were a day I'd be sitting there and you feel that heartbeat oh yeah it's like [ __ ] and there's still three more pieces there and it's like man if I don't do this I'm a puss I can't I can't I cannot do this right and like trying to shovel
134:00 - 134:30 the [ __ ] down and um it worked you it definitely worked and but it didn't change my set point you know that's the only reason why I did it because I'm like if I do this I can change my set point if I knew it was three weeks is not long I know if I if I knew it was just going to blow me I would have taken the [ __ ] fener butol longer you know it's I I would have found another way you know to be able to do it but for me that was the hardest part because I don't know if it was my metabolism or if
134:30 - 135:00 it was the muscle I was carrying or just not being open like fats are bad you know really bad back then not being open to just [ __ ] putting more fats on things that would have been a game changer for sure you know it's like [ __ ] MTC Oil I'd use that and just [ __ ] it out oh that's what it's supposed to do yeah so that didn't do [ __ ] you know so all these things I tried to do weren't working now I I would know better like there's a lot of different options but it still would be it's still a challenge it still sucks one way or
135:00 - 135:30 another the good thing is is that if you gain weight slowly and you stay relatively lean you don't have to press up against that needlessly like when I was drug free I used to gain a ton of weight because I just thought like same mentality like [ __ ] muscle weight moves weight [ __ ] like that so I get up to like 270 drug-free fat [ __ ] strong but fat and the the way up there was just really difficult because you know like your body's not interested in growing anymore your
135:30 - 136:00 hunger signaling is like dude [ __ ] you what are you doing I was drinking whole milk all the [ __ ] time I had an incident where I like had a bunch of cereal and milk and then went to sleep and like the [ __ ] went from my esophagus down my windpipe so I like woke up choking to death and vomit so I woke up choking to death in my room and then stabilized I was like I coughed stuff up and then I I was breathing and I was like mhm I was like there's still something in my lungs and then one of the breaths I coughed not vomited I
136:00 - 136:30 vomit coughed like a good cup of seral milk with cereal in it and then I was like and it felt great yes 270 lbs back to work there were that reminds me a couple other things I would have to be very strategic about ie what I ate before the dynamic squat Stu cuz it was fast right basically it's an AM wrap like on the minute every minute totally so I had to make sure whatever I ate came out fast
136:30 - 137:00 because I was going to puke you were going to do it I was going to puke so I was just out the door boom blow it out come back like oatmeal [ __ ] like that comes out good you know so certain things didn't come out as good like a barnyard Buster from tjs was not good coming no you know so that that wasn't a good choice the um the other thing was I cannot begin to count the number of times i' lay in bed in a quadruped position just with my stomach hanging just oh my God just to get my stomach
137:00 - 137:30 the heartbeat to stop and if I started in the quadruped and just nasal Brea yeah at a certain point I could just roll on my side and then I'd be good but any other position just would not work and it's there a lot of things going back I see ways around yes where my my training substantially changed you know coming from you know Toledo to Columbus where had I just I don't want to make
137:30 - 138:00 this sound bad had I just put on a pound or 1.5 pounds more of muscle each year for the time period that I was training the way I was training as I was leading up into that then it wouldn't have been that 282 it would have been 292 but there would have been more slab sure there sure you know to where when that training's not optimized for that for the periods to put on we're not talking
138:00 - 138:30 a lot here just a pound like that's for a powerlifter a pound of muscle pound point5 with that many years behind them it's still a big ask but it's a doable ask sure which makes the whole weight gain bloat thing way easier if you have six more pounds of muscle sure you know than if you don't cuz you can't force your muscle to grow the last 4 weeks trying to eat at a huge Surplus when you're training is low volume high
138:30 - 139:00 intensity is really working at Cross currents it and it sucks and also something that you said earlier reminded me when you're dieting and you're like super lean I remember that that one time you got Ultra super lean remember like your heartbeat slows down like and between beats even you have this like sense of Peace almost you're like I could just sit down in a chair and actually die of starvation I would go very well like I just feel like this
139:00 - 139:30 just equinity it's just like when you're eating to get bloated to get massive you feel physically [ __ ] uncomfortable and it doesn't feel healthy and it does not feel good to like the [ __ ] touch my forehead and there's like a vein you can feel your heartbeat all the time you feel like oily and sticky and gross you hit the moon face look it's awful and you're like I I know I'm supposed to be eating more and I know that eating more is bad for my health luckily I'm not on gear
139:30 - 140:00 wait I also am am I gonna [ __ ] die from this uh you know it's like it's a fighting against everything to gain weight and just recently I was gaining from 250 to 255 in my last off season and I will say for the first time in my life I ran into sleep apnea I was really lucky I had never gotten it before and that was just too much muscle apparently my next to jacked and I ran to sleep apne was 39 38
140:00 - 140:30 years old I'm going to be 39 here in a couple weeks and I was like you know could I get a seap to take this to the next level and my answer to myself was no and it was strange that I answered that because an earlier version of me we were like [ __ ] it Whatever It Takes yeah I was like you know nah I'm not going to I'm already at the top of the heavy weights and bodybuilding muscle mass any more muscle that I put on much more is going to take me out of that my most competitive class I'm only 5'6 like a super heavy are all taller and I told myself I'm not going to go any further
140:30 - 141:00 so I cut off my mass gain phase and replaced it with like a much slower Mass gain phase I felt a ton better but it was interesting because I talked to uh you know at uh in Vegas where I was training at the time Dragon Slayers all Pros I talked to a few of them and one guy had just like was gaining up to like three 20 for the first time and I was like you know comedically obviously I was like how do you feel he's like oh my God terrible MH and I was like do you how is your sleep he's
141:00 - 141:30 like well I just got a seap a few weeks ago so it's been great I was like what was it like before that he's like well did a sleep study and I was waking up like 59 times in one hour apparently like oh my God you're choking to death every [ __ ] minute he's like yep and nothing about getting that far out of your comfort zone sizewise feels good do remember how great and mobile you were when you were gaining to 300 Dave remember that jumping out of your car and jumping back in everything blows and then you have to ask the question of why
141:30 - 142:00 why the hell am I doing this to myself hopefully there's an answer in there somewhere uh I guess a lot of people ask like you know like what motivates you as a bodybuilder as a powerlifter do you ever get that you ever get asked that question back get it now what what is your standard answer for those I don't I don't I don't begin to answer it because they don't know yeah they can't comprehend sure right now we could have a conversation and you just know sure right so it's I just gave up trying to explain something that they're not going to understand where if whatever their passion is I'm probably not passionate
142:00 - 142:30 about so if they're passionate about piano or something like that they're not going to be able to explain to me you know what that really is so I just don't interesting you know but then you know obviously they'll judge but I don't care you know so they'll for they'll forget about it five minutes later 10 minutes later I'm not that no we're not that important of these other people that they're not going to give a [ __ ] 10es later tot you know they just want to figure out like why the [ __ ] you do what you do yeah I don't know I think for me A lot of times it's not even so much that it's a goal oriented
142:30 - 143:00 thing it's the uh it's a journey of experience the idea of hitting a PR the feel of a PR in the gym even the hunt for a PR something magical about it the idea of getting the biggest pump of your entire life look in the mirror and be like [ __ ] that is [ __ ] magical and after a while you're so involved in the lifestyle of making these things happen and those habits of training and eating are so ingrained and you like them so
143:00 - 143:30 much when people ask you like what motivates you to do all this you're like I I forgot I just do it because I like it it's not really like all not even an explicit goal after a while because you ask people like um I was actually name drop alert here comes the name drop is credit to who it's due uh I was talking to Jay Cutler at uh gym in Vegas and you know he he knows of who I am sometimes and I of course instantly like fell to
143:30 - 144:00 my knees and started crying when he walked up to me the usual and he was like you know what are you training for and I was like oh yeah Master's Nationals I'm you know like lowkey seeing if I have what it takes to maybe get a master's Pro card I don't know probably not blah blah you know he said very nice things and and he was like what about after and I was like well yeah I think I'm going to do like if I get a pro card somehow I cry for 10 days after miraculous experience I'm going to do like one pro show and then I'll be out and he looks at me and he smiles he's no you're not and I was like what do you mean he's like I told myself that
144:00 - 144:30 for [ __ ] years yeah I was just going to do one more show just win one more Olympia and then I was out and I could just keep wanting more and I was like [ __ ] I sure hope that's not true but it's Jay Cutler telling me that so it's probably true and it is just like you just keep doing the thing that you're doing imagine you know like hitting some kind of total and powerlifting that's the biggest total you've wanted for a long time what do you do after that how many people really just quit well you have to they I have put more thought into this when I'm Le than what I'm putting out there sure is what I've
144:30 - 145:00 concluded you know for myself is it's a process it's a journey of Mastery that I have more control of than other Journeys that I'm on yes so in business it's a journey of Mastery but I only have so much realistic control because there's a lot of things outside my control that impact the customer cust economy a lot of there's a lot of variables I mean you and it's it's overwhelming you know because you got to try to figure those out and figure out which ones matter and
145:00 - 145:30 which one don't to be able to move that now in this the strength journey of however it is competing at the higher level or figuring out to keep training the way that I like to train now to be able to just push for something in the abyss that's out there that I can train for I can control most of the variables right most of them I can control oh yeah some age changes things but I can still control those like I know the changes I know what's going to
145:30 - 146:00 happen I know what's expected I know how to change what my projected outcome is sure I can't do that with anything else I can't even do that I've been married 30 some years whatever I really can't even do that in marriage either do that marriage holy so it's I think it's it's having that ability to control Mastery process that we become kind of addicted to and and it can be very serving because all those skills carry over to life business and everything else it can
146:00 - 146:30 also destroy some people because it becomes their identity and the journey isn't what the journey is what they should identify with yeah not the pro card the world record total or whatever it is and everybody says that you know and everybody's told that but I don't think you really get until you're through it sure you know on the other side you kind of look back and say okay this is what it was then I can also look back and see those people that
146:30 - 147:00 are stuck in that identity it's like dude it's over well I think I think uh you wanted to talk about how this all works with aging I think that's a perfect segue huh yeah so that I I'll shorten my version then I'll let you expand on it because a lot of my version I actually stole from your video excellent because well you you do such a great job of explaining things where for years I've always said it's it's it's a weird dichotomy because as we're coming
147:00 - 147:30 up the main thing is as a teenager and all this stuff train really [ __ ] hard and don't worry about getting hurt just train your ass off bust your ass then at some [ __ ] up time it's not about that it's out it's really about don't get hurt and train hard it's the [ __ ] opposite it's like it it's it's like a movie that's got a [ __ ] up ending like everything you had to do to get where you want to go ends up being the
147:30 - 148:00 opposite of what you need to do to be able to go to the next last step yeah which is crazy as [ __ ] yeah and um then you throw in because that's the training age then there's the biological age and that's where I think people get really mixed up because the biological age still matters yes age is not just a number whoever said that is was ridiculous so I'll let you just jump off from there
148:00 - 148:30 sure sure so there's a pretty big difference in discussing what kind of approach works best what you can expect out of training based on when you started if you started at age 15 or 20 or 25 you're going to have a different Journey if you continue to lift after age 40 than if you do start when you're 42 because if you started early and you
148:30 - 149:00 trained hard and diligently making gains it after age 40 certainly after age 45 is going to be difficult if not impossible if you pulled all the levers that you could before you got there now there's always people in the comments section I'm 47 and I'm making the best gains of my life like word I can probably tell you one of two things one you started in the last few years or you started in your 30s at some point or two you never really pushed it and
149:00 - 149:30 trained that hard and ate right and did the Pharma you need to do to get your best results because how the [ __ ] do you still have a window mhm there's been a lot of Mr Olympia Champions and bodybuilding a lot of competitive powerlifters at the very top and they generally fall between age 35 and 40 sometimes 42 43 44 very rarely you have people peing lifetime in their late 40s so just the first kind of General ideas about training for someone who starts
149:30 - 150:00 early when you are between the ages of let's say 15 and 30 that's when you should be looking to gain the predominance of your muscle mass and core General strength that is when your trade-offs of going hard versus watching out for injury can be tilted into the direction a bit more of going hard now obviously you never want to do anything which you have to accept a high injury risk where you could have done it another way that had all the same benefits and a low injury risk clearly still be safe and
150:00 - 150:30 don't do dumb [ __ ] but you can push the envelope a bit when you're 15 to 30 years old between age 30 and 40 especially 35 and 40 if you've been consistent for that time it's time for you to increase the specificity of your training and really ring the most out of that sponge that you can making sure that you're now doing exercises that have your best stimulus to fatigue ratio not experimenting as much with others you know aren't as good it means that you're
150:30 - 151:00 going to take extra time to warm up because injury would be maybe not catastrophic but a huge setback at this point and because you're older and stronger and bigger and have a more of a history of wear and tear you're more likely to get hurt than when you were younger when you were too [ __ ] weak to get hurt it was like Harry Potter [ __ ] or 15-year-old lifting weights go don't want to get hurt get hurt with what 40 kilos get out of here nobody's hurting you so at some point after age 40 between 40
151:00 - 151:30 and 45 if you haven't made your run at the big one the big peak a few times Now's the Time and at that point is if you're in bodybuilding world you prioritize getting lean over getting bigger try to maintain your size maybe increase it a little bit but it's really just time to do the thing if there were you know pharmaceutical interventions you haven't done that you wanted to do now is the time to do them it's time to wrap it up after age 45 or so whether or not you've accomplished what you've set out
151:30 - 152:00 to accomplish if you've been training your entire life as of the year 20123 um my best recommendation as a sports scientist and a human being out of my face fly um is to flip the script lose lose plenty of weight make sure you're lean continue to train with weights as a healthful thing pick up Brazilian jiu-jitsu or Marathon running like Mark Bell's running around now God knows what
152:00 - 152:30 and um do not any longer pursue three things maximum size maximum strength and maximum drug use because there are very few things more sad than a [ __ ] beat red Trend tan 49-year-old that's like I'm going to do it man this is the one you're like
152:30 - 153:00 you're going to die like tomorrow and the [ __ ] doesn't work as well anymore after age 40 and for sure after 45 stuff gets very very difficult to improve if you've been whacking away at it for a long time after the mid-40s and then into your 50s it's all about training for ability and health maintaining a lower body weight staying lean or most of the time having
153:00 - 153:30 a good time and enjoying life and making sure Fitness is a part of that if you had lifetime hardcore Fitness achievements to accomplish especially in strength and size the time for those generally in your mid-40s the time for Lifetime alltime peaking has come to an end and that's absolute total [ __ ] to [ __ ] hear but it's nonetheless what the research seems to show and definitely what my own personal experience um seems to illustrate now
153:30 - 154:00 there's a couple caveat to that one is some people genetically Peak later than others some people can get stronger into their late 40s if you're that person [ __ ] sweet as long as you're healthy keep going at it some people start a lot later than their timelines are way fudged I mean if you start training at age 42 you can get linearly better until you're 52 and older you see I'm making gains to like yeah sweet you started late if you were not so serious in your early years or
154:00 - 154:30 you quit for five years at a time you can get really great gains way past your 40s because you just crank up the seriousness someone's like yeah I've been training weights for 25 years okay how there 46 years old great what's your training like like well yeah I didn't eat much and I train like two or three times a week okay train five times a week they're holy [ __ ] [ __ ] I'm the best ever like yeah no [ __ ] because what you call training was never really maximum Max full send training another caveat is uh I don't want to put too fine a
154:30 - 155:00 point on it but [ __ ] is going to be changing really fast here in the next about 10 years and there are interventions on the horizon that may and they've done this in animals are doing it in animals now successfully reversing parts of the aging process sometimes the entire thing so those of us who are still kicking it in 2023 by 2033 it may be absolutely realistic that reverse aging is
155:00 - 155:30 successful I have a whole other YouTube channel where I talk about this future [ __ ] by the way um and then it'll change the game in a big way because then [ __ ] full Trend stack again baby uh just kidding uh but then that'll be a totally different discussion um and it it takes people are caught sort of in in linear Trends and they don't think about exponentials and sometimes you say [ __ ] that they're like dude you're [ __ ] crazy right what are you talking about
155:30 - 156:00 it used to be taken for granted merely a hundred years ago that a male's productivity peaked in their 30s why because most jobs are physical jobs when you were a 40-year-old man your productivity went down your pay started to go down in your 40 can you imagine that [ __ ] like you were over the hill in in work nowadays who the [ __ ] you ever fly on a [ __ ] you go in an airline who the [ __ ] are these [ __ ] Sitting In First Class
156:00 - 156:30 old [ __ ] where the [ __ ] did you get all that money I run like two software companies [ __ ] is 79 years old and most money ever so [ __ ] can be really different so the whole aging reversal thing I think maybe in 10 or 15 or 20 years whenever it comes hopefully sooner or later the legitimately people especially younger people will look back and think man people used to age isn't that crazy you know people used to die of like colds and [ __ ] like that used to get a cut on your leg and die can you imagine some you talk to a buddy like hey like how's your wife like we went
156:30 - 157:00 hiking she got a cut on her leg she [ __ ] died dude you'd be like what he would he wouldn't be like why are you surprised be like well people don't die of cuts anymore with antibiotics well now we just take it for granted that we do or like you get pissed that your Wi-Fi service doesn't extend to [ __ ] you know the mountains of [ __ ] Colorado the goddamn cell service doesn't go what the [ __ ] cell service even 20 years ago that wasn't even a concept so I think [ __ ] is going to be [ __ ] changing so hopefully there's a massive Silver Lining to everything I just said of like look if we can a reverse age then you can just be 22
157:00 - 157:30 forever or however long you know until robots kill us all or whatever and then uh that'll be dope but until then understand that unless you came to the game late age 45ish is when it before that it's time to get your [ __ ] done at a really high-end competitive level in your chosen craft of lifting heavy [ __ ] or getting [ __ ] enormous that you had started years and years ago that's the way I see it and and like I said it is very sad to see
157:30 - 158:00 someone who has not gotten that memo but I'm sure you've seen plenty no I've seen plenty and I think it's important to talk about because they need to think about their exit strategy yes because two things in the strength world this is bodybuilding they downsize more frequently it's it's more they they've seen role models do it yes downside at least yes Arnold's still not Jack that no one cares yeah they've seen Dorian do it they've seen so many people do it that it's just a norm which is a good thing where in the strength World it
158:00 - 158:30 doesn't happen right they just disappear so you really don't know or they just quit training all together yeah and just drink tons of beer yeah or they keep eating and drinking and they stay the same size they just lose their muscle and gain fat well it was an interesting conversation I had a couple weeks ago because we were talking about mortality you know the bodybuilders cuz they're dropping dead you know sooner and then they're looking at powerlifters and bodybuilders I'm like we're only looking at specific time period so you're looking at like the last five years of these competitive
158:30 - 159:00 careers of these people all right so what about the decade after yeah like what's the mortality difference there yeah because I'm going to probably guess the strength athletes are Keeling over dead at a faster rate than the bodybuilders that have downsized during that time period so there's accumulated damage right right that goes throughout this whole thing accumulated habits you know that accumulate through this whole thing that when we have a mortality discussion you can't just talk about a fiveyear chunk of time yeah or there's
159:00 - 159:30 it's mortal it's the it's the [ __ ] whole time period yeah you know you have to look at where with if they know here's the a plan here's different plans like you can still have strength goals of one r or whatever I do but you have to realign what that means and be okay with that which is not it's a hard thing some people can't and that's why there's the
159:30 - 160:00 problem you know so they they just think there's more drugs or there's you know some other thing that they some card they haven't played like like dude if you've been doing this your whole life since you were a teenager and you're 50 something years old now and you haven't played all your cards you're [ __ ] idiot cuz you should have played them during the time when you were Peak was there cuz they're not going to do you a whole lot now except probably hurt you yeah or they're just very dangerous yeah yeah it's a specific thing when you see older guys Juiced to the [ __ ] gills and big still and you're like what where
160:00 - 160:30 do you think this goes for you where does this lead exactly um yeah I've had uh geez I've had a few folks that I've coached before and one gentleman was a great guy but he was like yeah yeah man I just like and he weighed like know 170 or so and he's like in his early
160:30 - 161:00 60s and I was like what's your goal he's like I just want to be [ __ ] enormous it was tough for me to write that email of like that is both an impossible goal and the degree to which it is possible it is dangerous mhm it's like I want to go to the moon but let me unassisted climb this like satellite tower that's a, feet tall and gaale force winds instead like first of all that does not get you to the Moon
161:00 - 161:30 second of all you're going to slip and fall and [ __ ] die 500 feet so there's a certain level of like reality that has to hit and then like we had a productive conversation but one of the things is like it was like well I see all these guys you know they're [ __ ] jacked and it's like 30 years younger than you man and it was like this oh was like uncomfortable moment cuz he was like [ __ ] like someone has to tell you like dude know like it's uh it's like you know in the
161:30 - 162:00 action movies where they the beginning of the movie they kidnap like the main character his wife or whatever and he's firing shots but they're already gone like his buddy has to come and like lower the gun for him like the the bullets aren't going to hit like we got to rethink this yeah so it's a tough conversation to have that at that point I think sometimes you get into people's demons because they really needed to get big yeah or stay big do you think about the stay big thing you run into that like guys who were big and strong and
162:00 - 162:30 it's not that they want to do better they just do not like to be a small person they don't fit into that body and and those conversations if they proceed forward Progressive productively I I'm trying to get them to tell me exactly what they're looking for yeah right getting jacked getting big for what like let's let's go for tell me why yeah right because if we can get
162:30 - 163:00 that then there may be a different answer yeah to getting there sure but a lot of times with that if they've been around for a long time doing it for a long time they can't tell you what it is sure because because they've never examined it themselves you think no no because it's always been about getting big getting strong getting jacked or you know lifting more weight because it felt yeah like why are you lifting more weight yeah like what's what's the drive because you're not getting up every morning and having this internal drive
163:00 - 163:30 that you're willing to actually die just because you want to lift more weight and that drive they've had since they were 20 30 whatever it is there's something else there sure like why is that now if you can get to that whatever it is then you can get them back on okay this is a journey that you're on it's not about the size being huge or the weight so how do we keep you on this journey to be able to do what you want to do maybe it
163:30 - 164:00 is you know when you're 55 being able to bench press your body weight for 10 sure which we I mean we all like I used to joke around at that right it's it's not [ __ ] very easy for somebody that's been through the weeds you know to be able to do that cuz it could hurt like a [ __ ] you got to get range of motion back there's a lot of [ __ ] that has to go into that yeah but it's there's the shiny thing here's the path here's how I got to lay out the path to
164:00 - 164:30 get to the shiny thing I can't do it in four weeks yeah I have to think strategically like I got to put muscle on or at least keep some muscle conditioning I need the muscle condition I don't know if I'm going to put muscle on right I need the muscle conditioning to be able to do what I want to do to be able to move there and it's not going to happen soon and it's going to take 16 18 whatever it is that's like a meat it's like a show it's it's familiar territory totally but a different shiny thing yeah
164:30 - 165:00 accomplishing the same mental yeah the process to get to a goal and have Mastery can have different goal I think you can have that forever you know as you mentioned with Mark maybe it is the marathon whatever it is yeah the processing is still the same yes here's this thing I'm not ready to do this thing so I need to get ready to actually do the thing that I want to do yeah phasic structure you know I need this offseason to be able to build the you know to be able to absorb the force that it's going to take to be able to do this then when I accomplish the thing I'm
165:00 - 165:30 going to take a break like quote unquote offseason and then maybe I'm going to do that again yeah or another thing or another thing uh that is very wise that is excellent advice I would uh add a couple more things in there may I think that another way to State what you're saying is like people just need a challenge if you change the nature of the challenge there's always more challenge ahead just different challenge can be a really good I think one good challenge for
165:30 - 166:00 people who used to lift and be strong is to start doing uh incrementally more cardiovascular stuff runs or cycling or swimming or even elliptical and get into amazing cardio shape first of all that increases your longevity second of all it makes you feel [ __ ] amazing third of all you get to eat a bunch of food and still be super lean and Light and Healthy and also it hurts more and it's just objectively more difficult than lifting weights I don't give a [ __ ] what anyone says cardio is [ __ ] harder
166:00 - 166:30 like what marathon runners do is harder [ __ ] you lift a thousand pound Stone great run 26 miles [ __ ] like anything that takes a second is not that [ __ ] hard to do so Challenge and I would say cardio vascular stuff is a great challenge there obviously still lift but focus more on the card cardio and the other thing is because those systems are entirely untrained mostly in a lifter you can make objective not goal specific total Global progress for like
166:30 - 167:00 10 years or more it's 2023 that might take you right into the [ __ ] biotech Revolution then you know [ __ ] just build the body you're [ __ ] set um as long as you nod to the robot Master as you leave your house he's in charge now um the other thing I think is good for people who used to be jacked and are a little bit on the old older side to be able to pursue that anymore is combat sport because some of us here I say even myself it it may be important for us to when we're out in public to be able to competently feel safe and be able to
167:00 - 167:30 defend ourselves even if it's just an ego [ __ ] everyone has guns anyway and who gives a [ __ ] I'm not trying to start fights [ __ ] Kroger yeah but the ability to just know in your own hands like if really [ __ ] came down to some Primal [ __ ] I got a ball or knee bar I can [ __ ] anyone up with it's short of world champions and then great they just beat me up in a Kroger so a lot of people have really awesome experiences switching to Brazilian jiu-jitsu after their powerlifting body Miller career has come to an end they slim down their cardio was better and they're fast and they're strong and
167:30 - 168:00 they're dangerous and you can get better at that for 10 15 plus years even into your 50s and 60s dude I've rolled with guys in their 60s nuked my dumbass I was a blue belt I was 250 lbs I was Juiced up I was strong I was winning competition 60-year-old walks through me like I'm not even there [ __ ] old old man what the [ __ ] is this I'm 32 years old nope not good enough so that kind of ability to master the physical is really awesome cuz like yeah running is cardio is sweet but you don't God damn it it
168:00 - 168:30 doesn't have that manliness component not as much you know like I want to be a [ __ ] man like I see an offensive line of like that like a [ __ ] monster you get good enough a combat sport which can be Brazilian ji- Jitsu it can be striking like there's more thae classes every [ __ ] metro area you get it be a baller striker dude you don't want to fight a [ __ ] 60-year-old who knows Muay Thai at a high level he's going to [ __ ] you up one leg kick and you're going to be on the ground bleeding out of your face crying you can Empower yourself like crazy switching over to
168:30 - 169:00 combat Sport and you don't have to be the biggest strongest guy in the room anymore that can be a great switch I plan on making I still um train Brazilian jiu-jitsu all the time I have a brown belt in it and I'm we're going to be retiring here in next few years from bodybuilding for sure it's like after age 42 I'm just not interested in this [ __ ] anymore Pro card or not whatever and I'm 100% full send the plan is just fulltime Brazilian jiu-jitsu to become like dangerous I can do that well until my 50s no problem so just some alternatives
169:00 - 169:30 for folks listening to consider like you don't have to give up getting good at [ __ ] you don't have to give up getting awesome hardcore training you don't have to give up getting better than you've ever been and you don't even have to give up being a [ __ ] dangerous [ __ ] and it's cool to be able to know how to fight because then people can't tell like you and I walk into a [ __ ] gas station everyone's like yeah okay I won't [ __ ] with that guy but if I really have an attitude I want to [ __ ] with that guy cuz he's big and I want to see how it works you know like you can't really ever tell it was a black belt Jiu-Jitsu it's usually some [ __ ] like my Jiu-Jitsu coach who walks through me like I'm not even there weighs 150 pound
169:30 - 170:00 glasses wearing hipster nerd [ __ ] I'm wearing his T-shirt right now Josh vogle Josh vogle and uh I mean he he plays with me and I can beat up almost everyone and he walks to me like I'm not even there you would never million years think this is a dangerous guy he goes into a gas station with his hoodie on you're just like that's like some kid who's maybe in his 40s but maybe is 13 years old I can't tell it's awesome to be a ghost like that if someone starts that [ __ ] you're going to finish that [ __ ] and you know not to give up too much but this is all this is
170:00 - 170:30 all L another bridge but after he was a great competitor in his own right and a really just just awesome black belt he lives in Philadelphia so somebody did start a fight with him and what he told me about it was he quickly resolved the situation very quickly and he told me he was like man like this guy just was no good at fighting and I was like who the f he doesn't train he just some guy started [ __ ] with he absolutely cuz you thought oh this hipster [ __ ] I'm going to [ __ ] him up it did not go his way but it's like it's an awesome thing to be able to have [ __ ] power and just show
170:30 - 171:00 it like walk around with a string of tank at a gas station gas station ready right and then I had to and then people are like damn like it's cool to be able to like just show up and have that physicality recognized everywhere we go it's a baller feeling it's great I'm kind of tired of that feeling cuz I got of like tired of being the center of attention everywhere and like you know hey showed up with a tank top today so I'm clearly hypocrite but then it's cool to be able to be low-key about this [ __ ] and if you do striking combat sport if you do Jiu-Jitsu you can be a [ __ ] killer and nobody knows people just look at your ears but only the the ones that know what they're looking for you know
171:00 - 171:30 the wrestling ear or whatever and they're like [ __ ] that [ __ ] that guy I'm not starting [ __ ] with him everyone else doesn't know it's a cool way to be and it means you can still have that manhood warrior [ __ ] in you because when I say hey after age 45 you got to stop trying to get big and strong Dave tell me that doesn't sound like giving up it does you're dropping the sword will just pick up a different shaped sword and now you're a different kind of warrior and objectively much better at fighting people by the way cuz powerlifters think they're the [ __ ] but like dude you're going to gas out in three [ __ ] seconds F yeah you're [ __ ] you're [ __ ] in no time they anybody that
171:30 - 172:00 doesn't know that's an idiot for sure bounced for years when I was at my heaviest and it was you're fck okay stop moving around you resolve it fast or you're done it's very simple with um I wonder though and this Taps a little bit on your other channel which is I tried to look here to see if I could redefine progress is that what the other uh making progress making progress right cuz I've seen almost all the videos the first two the first two are excellent thank you I think everybody should watch the first the first one was demonetized
172:00 - 172:30 for a reason YouTube won't tell us uh I swear that's just finding happiness right or something like that yeah like yeah figuring out what the meaning of your life is it was maybe we'll re-release it or something but it's going to be hard to find and you'll have to have an age restriction thing but so the first one so the very very first one's not there anymore anymore it's there okay but you're going to have to sign in otherwise you can't watch it wow yeah there was nothing in there nothing and the way the YouTube policy works is you ask them and they say uh okay we'll review it and they'll say no it's
172:30 - 173:00 rejected and they don't tell you why but soon the the YouTube people said like with the next year their goal is to flag exactly why your video was demonetized exactly at the time stamp it was with an explanation is AI is going to be able to tell you like this is why really curious as to why well with the the one thing that's we we spoke a little bit about the medical advancements in hel even even chat GPT for that instance the the one thing capitalism is great right
173:00 - 173:30 because it creates competition which should expedite progress but at the same time I think of the iPhone and the iPod you know remember it started with like 8 gig and you know damn well they could have done 128 gig but they did eight because they want to be able to sell all the eight gigs until that no longer becomes market then they go to the next so they basically hold back progress to be able to maximize profit over a longer period of time because they can't just dump the best hip replacement that's
173:30 - 174:00 ever made right into the market right now they it would make sense but from a business sense most people are going to be like ah let's get one that's 20% better and then another one that's 40% better and then the competition's not going to make one that's 100% better let's make it 15% better just so we have the competitive evant vage just over a period of time this is kind of how I've seen the market work on a I don't want to say macro because it's not because it's
174:00 - 174:30 businesses you know but there's still big [ __ ] businesses that are controlling all this so I wonder just conversational sake how much that will stifen the growth because say then when this AI starts to become more accessible like it's $20 a month now whatever it's going to be pretty [ __ ] accessible yeah which is very accessible right and like I said I use the [ __ ] out of it you know and I I believe and I think you stated this in the last video this is
174:30 - 175:00 like the internet starting Yes except more important yeah like I very well could have just kept putting ads in powerlifting USA yes and never gone online and not be a business at all right right that' just be stupid as [ __ ] right to not be able to see that but they're going to want to keep making the 20 bucks a month there's there's still a business on the other side sure so somebody you see what I'm saying so I wonder how and nobody knows the answer to this time will tell yeah but I think that's going to be slow the progress unless regulation
175:00 - 175:30 gets put in there which I don't think will I mean so regulation rules is only able to slow progress there almost no regulation you can write that makes progress faster MH um there is definitely a situation where businesses with less competition are not as inclined to make progress there's another situation in which large businesses have to report to shareholders and they have to report to their executive committee and their board and a lot of times people are in it to make guaranteed good money versus
175:30 - 176:00 take big risks to make Mondo psycho money but maybe also fail and that's why you get a staleness effect from big businesses that's one of the reasons why Google was not first to Market with really powerful gpts open AI was because Google had very powerful gpts in testing and their from what I understand their approval boards were like oh it's a little risky we don't want to be the first people to make a GPT that says crazy racist [ __ ] by accident and our stock price drops Open the Eyes they
176:00 - 176:30 didn't give a [ __ ] because they're new on the Block like [ __ ] it put it out so as long as there is a lot of competition even as long as there's just a little bit of competition it's very hard to rest on your low ruls in business because other people will come up and either make your life very difficult or make you not have a job anymore and you have to go looking for other work as long as our environment globally is competitive relatively and free with minimum regulation intelligent regulation that doesn't stifle
176:30 - 177:00 competition and stifle Innovation Innovation will continue for really one fundamental reason and here's this people don't have to be super smart they just have to buy the things they like and if you make technology that solves problems better people just [ __ ] buy it an iPhone I don't need a [ __ ] advertising mechanism I don't need diddly dick I need to look at an iPhone and be like whoa it does all that [ __ ] and it looks so pretty I want one I want one and if you're not making something that look like an iPhone I don't want to
177:00 - 177:30 buy it from you do you remember the company um Nokia mhm what the [ __ ] is Nokia yeah [ __ ] nowhere how they just didn't make what looked like an iPhone or what acted like an iPhone and now the iPhone is the new standard and yes they can make an iPhone for much more money that will me outperform everything can they make it at SC can they Mass produce it probably not if they can they're going to try because there's another incentive there's totally incentive of resting on your LMS but there's another incentive in business and over time businesses get better in general and they start to do this it is the idea of
177:30 - 178:00 putting out products so insanely Beyond Comprehension that they crushed the competition out of existence for years yeah like when they came out with the iPhone bro can you imagine that day for other cell phone company executive you'd be like well fellas don't know how the [ __ ] they did that and everyone loves it and no one's going to change and they have an ecosystem that's been running for a while now I will say and I got to go here in a sec yeah but I got one more thing the era of the cell phone is coming to an end probably in the next 5
178:00 - 178:30 to 10 years maybe sooner the era of potentially well glasses augmented reality maybe some other Paradigm is coming so Apple's foothold on the cellphone market and you know what other companies are in there could be a big switch and there could be some startup ups that make the first really awesome headset that interacts with you and all that stuff maybe it's Apple cuz they have one on testing that I've heard is blowing people's [ __ ] mind yeah that kind of Paradigm Shift allows other competitors to scoot in because what the
178:30 - 179:00 [ __ ] is open AI Google three years ago was a [ __ ] monster it was Untouchable open AI is [ __ ] with Google hard and now Microsoft has shares in open Ai and Microsoft cuz like we used Microsoft Bill Gates they peaked in the 990s or whatever uhuh they're back and they're [ __ ] stronger and Google's shaking that's the kind of competition that's got Google right now the Google's released like 10 products in the last 10 weeks and they're all unbelievable why CU they're like gasping for air that kind of competition which is [ __ ] as American as Apple Pi godamn it yeah
179:00 - 179:30 that's what's my big bet on progress will continue exponentially as it has been already there's no exception no it is 100% it's hard to believe but greed the best kind of greed greed for more for better for Progress God damn it that drives people to do crazy [ __ ] and uh I'm betting on that well I I do as well either way it's it's here yeah right and it's been almost hesitant like because you don't want some you don't want people to know but you do yeah right because I
179:30 - 180:00 want to use it as an advantage for as long as I can because the number people yeah the number of people you tell about it and they'll be like uh they're either pissed off upset whatever it is or they don't get it or it's oh this is going to go away I'm like yeah they said the same thing about the [ __ ] internet you know this oh yeah very famous very smart people said that about the internet they were very WR keep thinking that yeah you know but at the same time if you're not figuring out how to embrace it in some aspect you're you're [ __ ] you know it's simple as that I guess that's a good way to end the podcast right [ __ ]
180:00 - 180:30 everybody's world all up and say that it's bad AI is coming B of your robot here would be the other thing because right if if if you if you fast forward really fast right so you got voice technology you got AI you got all this other stuff and then you have the robots and you got you know sex dolls that almost feel like people now you get now you get a sex style that can actually talk to you and have conversations with it has a personality that becomes your best friend and then it becomes a part of society and then they can they vote
180:30 - 181:00 like will we have a conversation in 20 years what we'll be like is what's a human are they going to redefine what a human is so the sex doll the sex bot my sex spot's already human godamn it that's all I want to say you see what I'm saying so can they vote like now we're getting into some weird ass I love it conspiracy stupid ass [ __ ] but it's [ __ ] kind of going it's coming like my sex doll said that earlier you're coming she tells me what I'm going well it's not a
181:00 - 181:30 she I've said too much yeah obviously so all this aside your your YouTube page Renaissance periodization correctly and then the making progress page yep making progress just Google my name and shit'll come up exactly then the Instagram but just yeah Google his name thank you for coming out you know I appreciate this is always a great time thank you so much for having me um any parting thoughts or anything that you
181:30 - 182:00 want to RP hypertrophy app get on the list May 23rd it closes off for a few weeks get on the list now you can go to my Instagram you can just go to RP you can go to the YouTube there's every one of our YouTube videos the first link in the description is the get the Early Access it gets you a big discount on the initial price it gets you a bunch of other free goodies give that a and uh hopefully like the app all right guys thank you for listening and we're done wpo championships back in the day and going to a weightlifting me back in the day weightlifting you got your butler there it's a golf clap it be quiet everyone's got perfect technique this is
182:00 - 182:30 boring as [ __ ] but after that boredom then you grind these [ __ ] and you say now that you know what good technique is and now that in your [ __ ] soul it's your pride to get every rep with good technique no matter what I'm going to offer you another challenge