Why Fantasy Readers Hate Sanderson Now

Summary

The video explores the current discontent among some fantasy readers with author Brandon Sanderson, particularly following the release of his latest book, "Win and Truth." The creator of Fun Fantasy Books explains that the criticisms revolve around editing, prose, pacing, and plot issues. While acknowledging the author's longstanding influence in the fantasy genre, the video delves into the specific complaints like the book's length, repetitiveness, modernized language, and perceived infodumping. It also highlights how Sanderson's evolving writing style and narrative choices are leading some fans to feel disconnected. Despite the criticism, Sanderson's openness to feedback and willingness to stay true to his artistic vision are discussed, with the creator expressing admiration for Sanderson's approach and continued importance in the fantasy community.

Highlights

• Some fantasy readers feel Sanderson's 'Win and Truth' is too long and repetitive, stretching beyond their patience 📖.
• The modernized language in Sanderson's recent works is jarring for fans who miss the classic fantasy tone 🗣️.
• There's a growing sentiment that Sanderson is overexplaining, which reduces the element of surprise and emotional depth 🤯.
• Sanderson's transparency and willingness to adjust based on feedback keeps his work dynamic and relevant 👍.
• His narrative style is increasingly compared to the expansive, interwoven storytelling of the MCU 🕸️.

Key Takeaways

• Sanderson's latest book, "Win and Truth," is experiencing mixed reviews due to its length and perceived repetitiveness 📚.
• Fans are divided by the book's modern language and different tone compared to earlier works 😮.
• Readers feel there's too much 'infodumping' in the latest release, leading to less emotional connection with the characters 🤔.
• Sanderson is recognized for being open to feedback but also staying true to his artistic vision 🎨.
• The discussion touches on the broader evolution of his books, akin to the Marvel Cinematic Universe 🦸.

Overview

Brandon Sanderson, once hailed as a cornerstone of modern fantasy, finds himself at the center of some heated discussions about his latest book, 'Win and Truth.' Long-time fans have begun to voice concerns over the book's extensive length and repetitive nature, suggesting that the novel could benefit from tighter editing. Sanderson, known for his openness to feedback, has acknowledged these aspects but also stands by his artistic choices.

The transition from a gritty, traditional fantasy tone to a modern, epic narrative has left some readers feeling disconnected. Sanderson's intention to expand his universe, much like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, involves a broader scope and more contemporary language, which some fans feel diverges from the expected fantasy atmosphere. This shift includes accusations of 'infodumping,' which critics say diminishes emotional resonance.

Despite the criticisms, Sanderson has been praised for his transparency and dedication to his craft. He remains responsive to reader feedback while also clarifying his creative decisions. As discussions about his evolving style continue, Sanderson's role in reshaping the fantasy landscape remains undisputed, and interest in his future projects is keen among his community of readers.

Chapters

• 00:00 - 00:30: Introduction to the Video and Personal Connection to Sanderson The video begins with the narrator sharing a personal connection to Brandon Sanderson's works, sparked by a gift from their father at age 15. This connection evolved into a deep admiration, leading them to read and recommend Sanderson's books widely. The narrator's passion for Sanderson even inspired them to start a book channel, with their first video summarizing 'Rhythm of War'. However, the narrator expresses a mix of emotions regarding Sanderson's latest release, 'Win and Truth', hinting at a perceived decline in the author's work, which they find personally heartbreaking.
• 00:30 - 01:00: Summary of Main Criticisms of Sanderson's Recent Work This chapter provides a summary of the four main criticisms consistently found on platforms such as Booktube and Reddit regarding Sanderson's recent work. The author of the chapter attempts to maintain objectivity despite acknowledging a personal bias in favor of Sanderson, whom they consider a pivotal figure in fantasy literature. They also divulge having a disability that affects their perception, allowing them to see both positives and negatives from different perspectives.
• 01:00 - 04:00: Discussion on Editing - Length and Repetitiveness The chapter discusses the challenges of editing, focusing on aspects such as length and repetitiveness. The speaker mentions their ability to see both sides of an argument and aims to present a balanced view of the points discussed. The chapter includes responses from Sanderson and his team, alongside the speaker's own opinions. The speaker clarifies that they are not ranting due to their balanced perspective and their health condition, but they intend to provide a clear understanding of the situation without giving any spoilers.
• 04:00 - 10:30: Discussion on Prose - Tone Shift and Modernization The chapter discusses the nuances of prose, specifically focusing on how tone shifts and modernization affect storytelling. It cautions against revealing plot points that could influence the reader's perception, using the example of how external media, such as a video, might alter one's reading experience. The chapter highlights four main points necessary for comprehending the narrative's direction and suggests that Sanders and hype might be experiencing a decline.
• 10:30 - 16:00: Discussion on Pacing - Structure and Reader Experience The chapter discusses the pacing of a book, specifically focusing on its structure and how it affects the reader's experience. It highlights the significant increase in book length over time, from an average of 500 pages like in previous books to 1,400 pages, which is considered long and potentially impacting the reading experience.
• 16:00 - 24:00: Discussion on Plot - Deus Ex Machina and Fan Service The chapter discusses the notion that fantasy readers generally appreciate lengthy books and series, valuing complexity and detail. However, they can be critical of elements that feel repetitive, making the experience seem longer than necessary. The speaker mentions their personal experience with a book that, despite its length, felt short because of the numerous events occurring but acknowledges that some parts were indeed repetitive.
• 24:00 - 27:40: Conclusion: Sanderson's Approach and Personal Thoughts The chapter discusses the repetitive nature of certain themes and scenes in Sanderson's work. It addresses how some key moments are revisited multiple times for emphasis, which ties into one of the book's themes. While some readers appreciate this repetition for clarity, others find it makes the narrative feel long and somewhat tedious. Additionally, there are mixed opinions on the dialogues, with some finding them slightly tiresome. The chapter intends to delve further into these aspects along with personal reflections on Sanderson's storytelling approach.

Why Fantasy Readers Hate Sanderson Now Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 since I was 15 and my father gifted me elies I've been a DI hard fan of Sanderson I read all of his books I recommended it to my family my friends my first video was summarizing rhythm of War it was passionate enough for me to start a book Channel and I've been peaching Sanderson as my favorite author time and time and time again and that's why it is so hard for me to realize that after the release of win and Truth his latest book Sanderson seems to be having a downfall and because it absolutely breaks my heart but I also understand
• 00:30 - 01:00 most of the points and I also agree with some of them I made this video summarizing the four main consistent critics I found on booktube Reddit and overall on the internet and I'm trying to do that as objective as I can and let me explain that because although I'm quite biased towards Sanderson as I absolutely consider him such a keystone in fantasy I also as a person have a disability that sometimes is good sometimes not as good that I really see lots of points in favor and in con it's
• 01:00 - 01:30 very hard for me to rant about something because usually I really understand both points I think I'm quite good and balancing the good and the bad and so I'm trying to bring here all of those points what has been said and what is the responses that Sanderson or his team has given and overall my opinion this is not going to be a run I cannot run even less been sick but I am trying to really help you understand what is happening here without spoiling you what win and
• 01:30 - 02:00 Truth has although I will shy away from the specific points of the plot that might consider or lead people to believe that win in truth is having a downfall in serson as a whole I quite understand that seeing a video like this one might have influenced my reading experience so if you don't want to be influenced beforehand please shy away from this video come back later I totally understand there are four main points that consistently comes across in order to understand what is happening and why Sanders and hype might be losing his
• 02:00 - 02:30 touch or while he's having a dawnfall with his fans or losing them even first one is editing and it's also composed on three different points the first one it's the length it's not only that win and Truth is 1,400 pages long is a sharp increase if we go from the 500 pages average we had on mbor and also an increase since way of Kings which was around 1,000 pages but the major Point here is that it felt long I really
• 02:30 - 03:00 believe that fantasy readers do not have a problem reading long fantasy books I think we're here for it we adore long fantasy series we like it when things get messy we can get enough details but we do not like necessarily when things get repetitive which is the second point and I guess it underscores the point of it's not that it's long it's that it feels long for me it's a book that felt short honestly because it was so many things happening but I can agree that some points were repetitive we get a lot
• 03:00 - 03:30 of detail ver to show thing some scenes or some key moments are repeated time and time and time again for us to understand which it's in itself a theme and it goes to the last point and it's also that it's not only that it feels at times long it also is a little bit repetitive but a lot of people found that the dialogues in itself were a little bit yaring and we will be talking
• 03:30 - 04:00 about more of these in the second point but there's a lot of jokes in this book that did not land necessarily and some words that were really jarring and all of these kind of land to a point in which people were like we really need an editor here of course we know that Sanderson has an editor but it has been a lot of discussion around is this book edited well do we need it more editing would we last Al if 500 pages or 300
• 04:00 - 04:30 Pages were cut off if some scenes were not repeated and things like that I think it's worth to know that there was a change in editing but not for Winden Moshi feda which was the main editor for Sanderson through his career retire after oathbringer and from that point on where he's been working with Jillian Redfern who is also the editor of ABI cromi so hardly someone that it is new to it and the point here is is that we
• 04:30 - 05:00 might be seeing differences and personally I felt a difference in tone and overall in what I was reading from o ringer which is an absolute favorite to rhythm of war and also win in truth and those two books actually land at the bottom of my favorite list but Sanderson really has a point here and one of the things that I admire the most about him and I absolutely found is outstanding is that he came and really explained and an answer to most of these yes he
• 05:00 - 05:30 acknowledged that there's a different editor and different changes but to the main concent which might be are you becoming a Stephen King kind of author in which you don't nily listen to your editor he kind of said that there was a lot of editing involved there were a lot of recommendations but that neither Jillian nor Moshi were really on the theme of you need to trim things rather to elevate the writing also people from
• 05:30 - 06:00 his team came up and said very specifically how Sanderson is very open to editing explaining how Moshi at the beginning with elant recognized how the Mad Prince was a character that was a little bit convoluted so he removed that are completely similar things happened in all the books and going to the point in which also even with the simpler story of of most boring book ever he
• 06:00 - 06:30 went as far as AB testing different writing styles so different writing for the book like majority of it it's art so he did a Navy test he has his writing the original one he rewrited he and they realized that the original book as he wrote it it was Landing better than the new one so he got read of that last part so all of this is to show that Sanderson in theory is really open to editing and now comes a point in which I guess
• 06:30 - 07:00 Sanderson really closed or he made the stand here and he was saying that he can edit and he can listen to other people he can make shorter stories as he made with dress or as he made with sunlet we'd have way less editing but the point here is that he wanted to share a story which was longer and he wanted to make this as it is so it's not only that we need or we do not and editor that it is
• 07:00 - 07:30 his art and he's doing it in the way he feels comfortable with and I think this is a very interesting point and he is also okay with us not being okay with it on itself but for me it's I guess where things start to make sense yes it's a little bit long it for me it felt short and it was really addictive for me although yes some parts were repetitive but if this is the kind of book that he wants to read I guess it's to us to decide if we like it or we don't like it
• 07:30 - 08:00 and if we want to continue or not with the storm light but it seems that he is okay with what he's writing in the sense of the jokes overall the length the pacing all of it he said that that he will have a look at the repetitiveness he will consider if he's going too much or too hard with it which I really really admire and I guess at the end of the day it's just fair authors evolve he has his Grand View it's fair to us to
• 08:00 - 08:30 decide so totally fair if you decide to not move forward but um serson was really sharp on highlighting that there is no pressure to be added on the editor the editor work was done he considered it great and it just it was back on him I hope this brings a bit Clarity and it allows us to go into the second point which is also one of the main things that has been discussed which is the pros and in here the different things
• 08:30 - 09:00 starting from lots of readers me included feel that the tone has shifted sharply between book one and two most of us feel this oh I'm missing the idea of how way of kings and W of Radiance were more tight narratives and it felt a little bit more greedy a little bit more dark and we what we have now it's a little bit more of a wide story which kind of like has this uplifting or more
• 09:00 - 09:30 Epic Touch to it and this also has been declared as Sanderson as a conscious decision what he was able to do in way of kings and Words of Radiance was on purpose in order for us to really understand the characters but that story has evolved and what can be taught or shared in book one and two with just a fewer characters and titter narratives cannot and he will not do it in following books that is not what he really wants what the cosmere as whole
• 09:30 - 10:00 story wants him and what he wants to tell with it it's a little bit more broader more epic in scope which a lot of readers have imagined that kind of like being really similar to this marble MCU kind of world and this leads to one of the main points in Pros which is the modernization of the language and this is such a huge point of discussion I've
• 10:00 - 10:30 been reading threats and threats and threats about it and I I must say for me it was jarring two times it just just with one word therapy but overall I felt all right with it but the key or the gist of it is that it feels that as the story has progressed the language on itself has been changing and lots of readers have felt that reading wi in truth it's not feeling as a fantasy as
• 10:30 - 11:00 it felt at the beginning and they're kind of missing that tone to it and Sanderson also has been answering to this quite openly and there are multiple points here in one side he kind of disagrees that this is happening he went back he read uh some chapters of Landes and he felt that the tone was kind of similar also with misbourne he thinks there were phrases that were also mod
• 11:00 - 11:30 but more than that he says that there's kind of like this philosophy so for him it kind of like makes sense that we have a modern speech because he is following kind of like tolkien's philosophy rather than how he acted upon his story which is that Sanderson is translating to us the events that happened in the cosmere on Russa on Sky drill on whatever Planet at that time and we are really read in it because he's translating it things
• 11:30 - 12:00 like wait a second instead of wait might feel jarring to us but it is kind of his interpretation it is is not to say that I agree with these necessarily which I think it's fine I guess we all go back to he's doing what he wants to be doing he will nonetheless revise these because he does not want to be offputting readers from the story but there's a sense of the cosmere is incredible and we cannot have have this
• 12:00 - 12:30 medievales writing style or he does not feel that this makes sense where we have things that are incredible as were hoers communication that goes through different planets instantaneously and I think that makes sense he's building up a story to be each time more modern because we are kind of like understanding more of all the World As for me this is not a point that I was really concerned with especially because I I don't know if I just fell for it or what happened there
• 12:30 - 13:00 was just the word therapy Beyond therapy I was not able to find in my reading experience although a lot of other readers founded and I think that's completely valid all the points to get out of the narrative and the last point of pros and with these I really really agree with that it is vastly different and it is making a lot of fans going away from Sanderson or rather what they loved from Sanderson it's not what they are getting now is the info dumping in
• 13:00 - 13:30 the first books we've been not really understanding what we were having there was a lot of information that was hidden there was a lot of the journey and now in book five we are discovering a lot of things that happened and that were just hinted and it feels that the payoff that we get from what we were building up it's a little bit rushed and it's overexplained there's these scenes in my
• 13:30 - 14:00 opinion were fantastic when we are seeing these things that we've been theorizing and we've been thinking about like what what happened why this make sense or this this and that it was fantastic but it's true that it is a little bit different to go from I don't tell you almost anything and Sanderson even with way of Kings acknowledge that the curve in order to enjoy Stormlight was really sharp it was really hard to get to he made a conscious decision
• 14:00 - 14:30 starting with the epilogue in which we had the Heralds instead of going straight forward with gaber's Feast but he made it so because he wanted that sharp curve in order to enter in Wind of Truth it feels that he does not want that curve anymore like readers have gotten here and they deserve to understand everything and I think most of us already did but it is overe explained and it was a little bit a
• 14:30 - 15:00 change in how information was displayed which goes back to the first point in repetitiveness a little bit Sison said that he will go back and revise if he is telling instead of showing too much but he will stay true to what he wants to do and his pros and his art which lead us to point three which is pacing and in here Sanderson has not really shared a lot about these different concerns at least not that that I have found but
• 15:00 - 15:30 there's been a lot of discussion around why do we have this 10 days kind of structure versus the five parts that we have in previous books and it goes back to the pacing that he wanted to build and it is also I agree quite fast for me this was magnificent I found the tan days Milestone one inevitable because it was proposed like that in of war and he
• 15:30 - 16:00 already like closed that from himself but too I I really enjoyed the idea of building up to something and that something being so incredible it felt addictive and that's what made wi of Truth for me as ortable like I was not able to put it down it was absolutely nuts for me but I understand the beauty also of the different arcs that we saw in the first books and just to make this point a little bit clearer it's not necessarily that we go from five
• 16:00 - 16:30 different parts to 10 and we have more and therefore it's quicker the pace but the structure in itself is a little bit changed and I appreciate how readers are missing this structure that we were given when the books were divided in the different parts because when this was so it almost felt like every part ended with one or multiple of the characters ending a part of their Arc in book one we have shalan getting to jna shalan
• 16:30 - 17:00 being accepted as a her warrant shalan stealing then shalan being picked up right similarly this happens to khadin like we go through these different changes from bridge boy to being a leader and in here we don't end each of those days with an arc kind of closing which makes sense because it's just 10 days it's not a huge span of time and I think this is reasonable and again a choice that was made by Anderson this
• 17:00 - 17:30 only happens in 10 days which we'll have a tradeoff which is that there's a overload of actions and something that we will see in the next point but having this 10 days not only allowed for more interludes which made the story longer linking it to 0.1 which for me it really made sense I love the interludes we were able to see interludes from a character that I really wanted to it was consistent it allowed me to increase the stakes and I I just really enjoyed the
• 17:30 - 18:00 interludes but I understand and I agree that each of these arcs ended in a way that it felt less satisfying that when we had part one or end of part one another point that the Ping had which I think it's interesting and this actually happened to me is that so many things happened that it does not seemed that a lot happened and let me explain when I was reading it I was every time like the
• 18:00 - 18:30 emotional state was so so so so high and when I was telling my husband what I was reading I was realizing oh my God this is actually incredible this is outstanding but while I was reading it at the same time it felt like nothing not nothing but so many things were happening that I felt quite overwhelmed and what I was reading it did not land as much it feels like we did not have a Brea either between the different parts
• 18:30 - 19:00 in order for us for the hard parts to really land as deep as we could have and this can also be discussed but the sand lunches that we are used to are kind of so impactful because you are seeing that part landing and for me we did have different mini sandal lanches throughout the whole story and that allowed for some incredible moments some of the best scenes that I've read but also it just it felt too too too too much and this
• 19:00 - 19:30 eventually ended up for me not impacting or not heating as hard as all the books and concluding with the fourth point we have the plot on itself and I reckon this is the most spoilery part although I again will keep it as far away as I can from spoilers but just the idea of highlighting parts of or themes of what a plot was concered lots of readers um
• 19:30 - 20:00 might be a spoiler on itself so take it with care the care that you need in order to enjoy the read but in here there are three main points and all of them are quite complex the first one is that through different parts of this book we find in the plot a little bit of a d sex minina so we are landing or we are getting out of situations because and this is not something that we are
• 20:00 - 20:30 really used to with Sanderson at least I was not used to and there are points that also for me um I I really agree with which I will not get into the details for the sake of spoilers but there were at least two main things that happened that for me were like a little bit rushed a little bit farfetched and you know eventually it was not lot I was not really sold out if
• 20:30 - 21:00 you want to know more let me know in the comments and like spoiler spoiler space a space a space and then we can discuss so that we don't ruin experience for others but this is a point that it's very different to other books and it makes me wonder and worry if we are going to be seeing this story crafting in other stories like is this really the story that Sanderson wanted from the beginning or not which leads us to all the point and I I find this one of the
• 21:00 - 21:30 most problematic points and I'm not sure if I agree but there's a bit of concern on if whether Sanderson is pleasing the fandom with parts of the plot or if he is rearranging this story in order to make some of the fans or the majority of the fans answer to parts of the theories or if he is pleasing them in a way which really goes a little bit against the point point on Sanderson does not listen
• 21:30 - 22:00 and he has and needs a better editor or more time with the editor um which for me it's very contractive like either he really listens or he does not but there are parts of this book that really resolved theories that we fans have had for years and there is specifically one thing that happens when phrased that it's said that will resonate with fans and I'm not sure if
• 22:00 - 22:30 he introduced it because he knew the power of this phrase or how powerful these theories are and that also makes different fans wonder is he going too far with the theories is he going um in order to say yes or not to this theories is he accommodating his story in order to bring back these points from fans or or is just a story that Sanderson had
• 22:30 - 23:00 from the beginning um I will not say which theories because we did have a lot some are said some are not and I think that was a fantastic Journey for me it was very straightforward which goes back to the point of um I'm going to be infodumping this to you and you will you will see things coming it's very straightforward things in this book and that goes to the last point and it's the lack of connection we can have with these characters which this is something
• 23:00 - 23:30 that I wholeheartedly agree with and I said so also on my review I was very involved and engaged with the characters because I've been rereading Stormlight through last year and I feel for the characters very deeply but the blend of how one this story was less tied in scope so not necessarily edited but how it was broader second how the
• 23:30 - 24:00 pros was a little bit more info dumpy and a little bit mod thir how it was faster ultimately did not allow me to link as well with the characters and not necessarily that their arcs were not great because some of the characters end in such an incredible way and but it's just again how emotionally I was able to link with them so I can tell you what happened and it is amazing and it is
• 24:00 - 24:30 incredible but for some reason I was not able to link with them kaladin especially I I've been such a fun of him and I've been breach for all the way through and in this book he changes very fast and the way that he does so it's done in a way that it did not allow me to follow him sadly and I'm hoping with time and with rereads this will happen for me but I kind of felt that this happened again
• 24:30 - 25:00 with all the characters but at the end of the day if I summarize all of these points editing Pros pacing and plot what I get from it is that Sanderson is changing and he has a mindset he has a vision and he has this art that he wants to create he is okay with fans not necessarily falling in love with what he's doing now and he also understands that he will have a look at different comments and have a deeper analysis on
• 25:00 - 25:30 whether he is going too far with some of those points in order to make the situation for readers more approachable which is something that I absolutely adore and love from Sanderson and this is my final point I think Sanderson it's excelling at being straightforward transparent and he knows how important he is for the community for not only the Phantom but the fantasy Jer right like he made the kick started with the secret
• 25:30 - 26:00 projects and they were like hit instantaneously surpassed every Revenue that was expected and he is just massing so many changes he's such an important piece and I still think that he is having this mindset of being empathetic of being um responsive of listening to other people and to really respect and to try to build things that he believe in but also
• 26:00 - 26:30 listening to people this does not mean that he will change what he wants but he will do it differently and honestly this makes me respect him more than ever I've also seen people commenting on whether or not it is good that he's depicting queer characters in his story which he also answered lately and I will not make a comment because I reject any criticism around um queer people being on stories and I will not even invest one minute on
• 26:30 - 27:00 me on my channel here on that they're fantastic and there is not even something I should be considering or discussing around this point I hope this was useful I know I'm sick but hopefully I make this points for you and let me know your thoughts I really understand again if you are falling out in love with Sanderson if you believe you're not for him anymore or if he is not for you anymore that's completely valid we will see what UNF Falls and where time takes us um Journey before destination right
• 27:00 - 27:30 so let's enjoy our reads until we get there thank you to my patreons for your support and love if you want to connect more with me personally consider joining us we have a book club reading Springs we do have games live chats it's really a blast and I would love to invite you to our cozy community