A Confession From The Man Who Shot JFK | Confessions Of An Assassin | @DocoCentral

Summary

Highlights

• James E. Files gives a detailed account of being a backup shooter in JFK's assassination 🤯.
• Files describes his collaboration with organized crime and figures like Sam Giancana 🔫.
• He asserts ties to the CIA, overseen by David Atlee Phillips, in a shocking claim 👀.
• Files bit the bullet casing as a personal signature, an act recently examined for its legitimacy 🦷.
• Despite the denial from the FBI, Files' testimony revives discussions surrounding JFK's assassination 🔄.

Key Takeaways

• James E. Files claims he was one of the shooters in the JFK assassination 🤯.
• Files alleges the involvement of Chicago mob figures, including Sam Giancana and Johnny Roselli 🕵️.
• He suggests CIA ties, specifically mentioning David Atlee Phillips 🚀.
• Files' detailed narrative is dismissed by the FBI but still sparks curiosity and debate 🔍.
• The mysterious circumstances surrounding the deaths of his alleged co-conspirators are eyebrow-raising 🕵️‍♂️.

Overview

Chapters

• 00:00 - 02:30: Introduction and Investigation In 1989, Houston private investigator Joe West embarked on an independent investigation to uncover the true assassins of President John F. Kennedy. Despite facing numerous setbacks and disappointments over a span of three years, West continued his pursuit, funding the investigation from his own resources.
• 02:30 - 09:00: Files' Background and Involvement The chapter titled 'Files' Background and Involvement' explores how Joe West was tipped off by an anonymous FBI agent, leading him to the Jolie State Penitentiary. There, he met James E. Files, a prisoner serving time for shooting an Illinois police officer. Initially hesitant, Files eventually opened up to West over months of visits and letters, revealing his involvement in the JFK assassination.
• 09:00 - 18:30: Role in Assassination The chapter discusses the events surrounding a confession related to an assassination. A key figure in the investigation, West, was on the verge of obtaining a full confession when he became ill and died in 1993. His death delayed the process, but 13 months later, on March 22, 1994, West's associates managed to videotape an interview with another key figure, Files. In this interview, Files confesses to being one of the shooters on November 22, 1963, and implicates organized crime members Charles Nicoletti and Johnny Roselli.
• 18:30 - 30:00: Post-Assassination The chapter discusses the aftermath of an assassination and the subsequent two years of efforts to bring an important interview to public attention. This process culminated in a confession that is now presented in its original, unedited form. The narrative emphasizes the authenticity of the confession as nothing was altered from the original recording, leaving the audience to judge the confessor, James Z, and his statements.
• 30:00 - 42:00: Motivations and Relationships The chapter delves into the theme of motivations and relationships using the narrative of James Files as a central point. James, who has undergone significant personal changes, reflects on the pivotal moments that influenced his decisions, including the change of his name at the end of 19. This chapter explores the intricate motivations behind such personal transformations and how relationships play a role in shaping one's identity. The presence of 'Music' suggests a background atmosphere, hinting at a reflective or possibly emotional tone throughout the discussion.
• 42:00 - 55:00: Other Conspirators and Reflections The chapter titled 'Other Conspirators and Reflections' involves a character named James Sutton, who reveals his decision to change his name in 1963 to James Z Files. He made this change as he intended to get married and start a family, thus adopting the identity of James Files for family life. The narrative likely delves into the reasons behind this decision and could involve further discussion or reflection on his life choices and their consequences.
• 55:00 - 80:00: Concluding Thoughts and Aftermath In the concluding chapter, the narrator reflects on the need to change their name for safety reasons while being involved with a radical Cuban group in the past. This change of identity was facilitated by a government agency to protect themselves and their family from any potential retaliation. Additionally, the narrator mentions their service in the 82nd Airborne, having joined in January 1959.

A Confession From The Man Who Shot JFK | Confessions Of An Assassin | @DocoCentral Transcription

• 00:00 - 00:30 [Music] in 1989 Houston private investigator Joe West launched an independent investigation to find the true killers of President John F Kennedy after three years of disappointments and dead ends financed at his own considerable expense West ly
• 00:30 - 01:00 received a tip from an unexpected Source an FBI agent who asked to remain nameless the tip LED Joe West to jolet State Penitentiary and a prisoner named James E files files who was serving time for shooting an Illinois police officer was at first reluctant to talk slowly and meticulously West established a relationship with files through months of personal visits and detailed correspondence files began to reveal his participation in the JFK
• 01:00 - 01:30 assassination files was nearing a full confession when West became ill and passed away in 1993 it took 13 months after Joe West's death but on March 22nd 1994 Associates of wests videotaped an interview with files in the interview files admits to being one of the shooters on November 22nd 1963 he also implicates organized crime members Charles nicoletti Johnny roselli
• 01:30 - 02:00 and Sam janana for the next two frustrating years attempts were made to bring the interview to the public which finally LED this confession to us we now present this document to you in its unedited form exactly as it was taped the breaks and the confessions occurred at the time of the taping nothing has been altered we now leave the Judgment of James Z files and his confession in your hands
• 02:00 - 02:30 [Music] we're ready R please tell me your name my name is James files and I changed my name basically at the end of 19
• 02:30 - 03:00 1963 for purposes of uh let me rephrase that I took the name files in 1963 my real name is James Sutton say that again my real name is James Sutton but I changed my name in late 1963 due to the fact that at that time I wish to get married and raise a family and what is your name now today I'm incarcerated I'm under the name James Z files I raised a family under that name James files did you change your names for any
• 03:00 - 03:30 particular reason to i p I changed my name for particular reason because I had been working with a radical Cuban group and excuse me what we wanted to do at that time was to protect my identity so they wouldn't know who I really was when I got married because of my family life I didn't want anyone to retaliate on the things that we were doing and so I took in a different identity that was authorized to me through a government agency were you ever in the armed services I was in the 82nd Airborne I went in 59 1959 state of Entry January
• 03:30 - 04:00 and in July 10th of 1959 I believe it was July 10th we shipped out the LA I was 82nd Airborne what were some of your duties my duties at that time we were working a special operations group to work with the leosan Army in La at that time and I was there strictly as an advisor on training with small small automatic weapons setting detonators explosives mechanical
• 04:00 - 04:30 ambushes and there was just a handful of Americans there working with a leosan militia at that time how long did you serve there I was there through approximately 14 months I was in LA before I came home you mentioned to me one time that you were in Jeopardy of being Court Marshal could you elaborate on that a little bit uh I really don't wish to elaborate on that part of the court marshall it had to do in the field but not of is there was something that I
• 04:30 - 05:00 did that the whole face with the leosan Army no problem could you tell me about how you first became involved in organized crime activities I first became it's a strange way to start out but I was racing stock cars and driving at a local track and Mr nicoletti had taken a shine to my driving and he had watched me on several occasions and he had asked me once if I would like to drive for him one him and
• 05:00 - 05:30 I took him out and test drove his car that we just picked up a brand new Ford and he was pretty well pleased with my driving and from then on I became more like an assigned driver to him and I did several drivings for him on a different job that he did an upand cominging figure with the organized crime and he was known as one of the local Hitmen and as far as I'm concerned he was the best there ever was as far as I'm concerned what Mafia Family did he work for he was out of the Chicago family uh who would have been the boss of the
• 05:30 - 06:00 Chicago family at that time Tony Ardo that's before giia or after Gan con a Tonio Caro handed it up headed it up and then Gian Conor came after that Gian con at that time was one of the underlings I guess you might say he was the one of the top lieutenants at that point things were handed out in different branches and organized crimes such as someone might handle the liquor license someone would handle the loone sharking and the booking and someone El would handle contracts for murder for high or
• 06:00 - 06:30 anything like that James where were you on November 22nd 1963 on November 22nd 1963 I was in D Plaza I arrived at De Plaza shortly before 10:00 a.m. that morning what was your reason for being there my reason for being there at that point was to look the area over and I had driven a vehicle down there and I had taken several weapons to
• 06:30 - 07:00 Dallas Texas for what purpose did you do this I did this for the sole purpose for the assassination of John F kenned who instructed you to do this James tell me the story your own words the story started back oh roughly 6 months prior to that when Mr nicoletti contacted me one evening and I had met with him and he instructed me that we was going to do a friend of mine and it was more like a personal joke because uh
• 07:00 - 07:30 I had never lik JF Kennedy since the challenge Bay Affair which is known as the Bay of Pigs were you as the Bay of Pigs no I was not at the Bay of Pigs but I had help train several of the opties that were involved in the Bay of Pigs but uh when you say help train them what do you mean I have trained them what they call we call it Gator Ridge back then some people refer to it as no name key some people call it assassin Ridge who was in the Everglades down there in Florida and uh we worked Solly with the Cubans at that time we supplied them
• 07:30 - 08:00 with weapons and the weapons had come basically from uh the government from the CIA they had been heavily involved in that and at that time David Atley Phillips was my controller and uh so I had never liked Kennedy since he had backed out on us we didn't give him the Firepower and I felt that we' been betrayed but I had at that point I had never even considered killing anybody at all over the situation but when Charles nicoletti told me that we were going to do my friend I thought they were referring to a local party in town and I said why I
• 08:00 - 08:30 said what the hell did he do and he laughed he says no not him he says we're going to do John F Kennedy the president and I was a little bit shocked at first but I said hey fine great you don't matter to me and uh I was game for anything he wanted to do and then we discussed it and then he asked me what I thought about with Johnny roselli working with us and I told him I said hey fine I like Johnny got no problems there so you knew John roselli before that day I knew John roselli before that day how did you meet him
• 08:30 - 09:00 I had met John roselli in Miami and discussed a few things with him and he had I had met him through David Atley Phillips and David Atley Phillips was uh Opera for the CIA and uh Through Time everybody got to be fairly well good friends but I grew up basically Andre Chuck's Wing Mr nicolle's Wing and uh CH told me what we were going to do it we' first originally planned planed to do the assassination in Chicago but a
• 09:00 - 09:30 lot of people didn't like that idea so then it was moved to to another location when you say we planned it could you clarify we well when I say we I was just with Mr nicle whatever he said do I would do and uh on I say we I'm refering like the only thing I did was just uh drive the car whatever that they needed me for and Mr nicketti had asked me then at that point when we decided not to do it in Chicago and was going to me move to Dallas when they John up decided to go
• 09:30 - 10:00 to Dallas a week in advance I took the 63 Chet that we had at that time and I left and I went down a week early I picked up the weapons and the storage bin that we had and uh loaded them in the car with everything I thought that we might need with a various assortment and I left and I drove to Dallas I stayed out of a place at mosquet Texas and uh once I got there I'd call back and notified Mr nicketti that I was there and on the scene and and the
• 10:00 - 10:30 following day Lee Harvey Oswell came by the motel where I was at they had given him my location and he took me out to a place somewhere southeast of mosquite where I testified the weapons and calibrated the scopes on anything that might be needed and he was with me for a few days in time there we drove around so I would know all the streets and not know running into any dead in streets if anything went wrong and we had to flee from the area so Lee Oswald spent time with you he knew while you were there you knew why he was there Lee Harvey OS
• 10:30 - 11:00 knew that I was there but I never told him why I was there he would just been come over and told to stay with me and to help me out and assist me in any way that he could Lee Harvey Oswell and I never discussed the assassination of John F Kennedy I discussed that with no one because my part of it I had no part of the assassination at that time all I did was go down take the car down take the weapons Down clean the weapons calibrate the Scopes make sure everything was functioning properly and then know that immediate area
• 11:00 - 11:30 surrounding da Plaza back to the expressways and the other local highways that could be used as a extraction point to uh to leave Dallas in case something should go wrong at that point I had no involvement at all in the assassination outside of that just doing my little job that I had to do could you give me the exact chronology of what happened from the time uh you arrived in Dallas you've already said that you would out you testified Some Guns and Things take
• 11:30 - 12:00 me back to maybe November 21 the day before and just in your own words tell me what happened from November 21 1963 till the night of November 22nd 1963 if we go back uh November 21st I had everything pretty well set up on my end of it as Bo knowing the area knowing the streets memorizing a lot of the major points there in the intersection crossing railroad tracks
• 12:00 - 12:30 and trestles and things I had the weapons prepared and ready to go I had those installed in the car where I wanted them everything had been calibrated all ammunition had been set ready to use and I got a good night's sleep that night and the following morning I got up early and I went to the Dallas gabana Hotel to pick up John roselli and I'm want to say somewhere shortly around 7:00 that morning maybe a few minutes past 7 and I picked up Johnny
• 12:30 - 13:00 roselli and we drove from the Dallas Cabana to Fort wor Texas to a pancake house they had there just off the major highway and we went there to meet someone I did not know who we was meeting but he had already told me Johnny Rosell said we was going to meet a man by the name of Jack Ruby that he had some things that we had to pick up and when we got there John rosali told me he said I'm going to go in and sit in the booth he says you wait and come in later he said sit somewhere else where you can keep an eye on me Cas something
• 13:00 - 13:30 goes wrong I want you to cover my backside so I positioned myself after Jenny relli went in I sit at the counter ordered a cup of coffee and sat there and waited this what heavy set gentleman came in and he went over and he knew Johnny roselli I assume CU they shook hands they talk for a minute and sit down in the booth together and they passed over oh I'm going to say probably uh 5x9 envelope vanill envelope that has material in it at that that point after
• 13:30 - 14:00 a couple of minutes he got up they shook hands he led I went out into the parking lot make sure the air was clear started to car up pull up by the door Johnny roselli come out and got in the car I never met Jack Ruby never said hello or anything and Johnny roselli got in the car with me and we started back to Dallas he opened the envelope up and there was uh identification in there for Secret Service people and we had a map in there of the Zach mid route that would take it through D Plaza and Johnny
• 14:00 - 14:30 Rosel said well they only made one change and that was when they inform me that they was coming off of uh Main Street on to Alm or on to Houston there they made the zigzag the little turn that they should have never made but when they made that that was the only change in it I drove him back to the Dallas Cabana he went upstairs and I waited for Mr nicoletti to come down Mr nicoletti came down and got in the car with me and we drove to D Plaza and we got to Da Plaza shortly before 10:00 and from there we parked the car been
• 14:30 - 15:00 drizzling rain that morning it's kind of a cool morning out I parked the car deci side the dtech building Mr nicle and I got out and we walked up and down the complete area of De Plaza we covered every corner walked by the buildings looked over several different things and we were just talking having casual talk about one thing or another the weather and everything and at about 10:30 Mr nicle asked me how would I feel in
• 15:00 - 15:30 supporting him and backing him up on this and he told me I wouldn't fire unless it became extremely necessary and I told Mr ni I said Jes said I'd be honored to do anything to back you up and he asked me he says where would you he said before it goes outside if you us to be outside here he said where would you position yourself out in Daily Plaza and I told him I said well I said I'm looking everything over and from walking and the week that I've been down here I said I think I would choose up there behind the tree behind that e on the High Ridge by the null up there and
• 15:30 - 16:00 he says why there I said well I've got the railroad yard in back up in there we've got a parking lot there I've got a place to where I could stash whatever I would need I said and I can pass off my sub office to work in the railroad yard for the time being until that time comes and nobody would really pay any attention to me and he asked me then he says he says where do you think it' be the best place for me I said well I said I think the dial te building with the new change in it I said I think the dtech building over there building would give you the best uh bage point
• 16:00 - 16:30 there and he said I think so too so we took a walk over went through the parking lot over by the tracks walked around through there and he seemed pretty well pleased with that and then at that point we oh was about 11:10 he asked me what weapon would I choose to use over there and I told him I said I would like to use the fireball he says why why that one he said you've only got one shot and I said one shot's all I'm going to get anyway if I wait until the last moment of fir and I may not fire I said and it's easy to can see SE I carry in the briefcase
• 16:30 - 17:00 and nobody pay any attention to me it's easier to walk away from there and that's exactly what we did at that point and shortly before noon we went back to the vehicle I took the briefcase out and turned my jacket inside out I went back into the yard and I the rawood yard there I secured the briefcase and then I hung out back there and I walked down on the grass and all I looked things over nobody pay any attention people were gathering and shortly before the motor came came I went back up
• 17:00 - 17:30 there and started securing myself in a better position so I'd be able to reach the attache case at that point the briefcase excuse me and uh I knew once that I opened the uh briefcase up pull a weap and out nobody's going to be looking at me the motorc would be coming making his first turn and I wouldn't have to uh remove the Fireball from the briefcase until approximately they made the turn on down street there and I would have plenty of time at that
• 17:30 - 18:00 point and at that point when they started preceding down Elm Street shot started being fired from behind and I assumed that it was Mr nicoletti because he was the one that was in the building and I knew that Johnny roselli was there and uh I remember the shots ringing out and even though the president was being hit with the rounds I was considering a Miss because I knew that we were going for a head shot on the president and I had known he had been head in the body but I didn't know what
• 18:00 - 18:30 part at that time and I seen the body Lurch and I saw the body Lurch again I heard another shot that missed and we were supposed to hit no one but Conley I mean no one but Mr Kennedy and I guess Governor Conley got hit with one of the rounds at that point and I wasn't even sure that because I was keeping Kennedy as best I could in the scope on the Fireball and when I got to the point where I thought it would be the last Field of Fire I had zeroed in to the left side of the head there that I had because if I wait any longer than Jaclyn would have been in the line of fire and
• 18:30 - 19:00 i' been instructed for nothing to happen to her and at that moment I figured this is my last chance for a shot and he still had not been hit in the head so as I fired that round Mr nicle and I had fired approximately at the same time as the head started forward then it went backwards and when I would have to say that his shell struck approximately 1,000 of a second ahead of mine maybe that's what started pushing the head forward which caused me to miss in the left eye and I came in on the left side of the
• 19:00 - 19:30 temple and at that point through the scope I witnessed everything matter and scull being blown out to the back of the lemon everyone on television watching saw Jackie Kennedy crawl out there to get it and I watched to hold on a hand to crawl back in the car and put the uh Fireball back into the briefcase and closed it up and I'd pull my jacket off reverse my jacket so I would have instead of a pled SL out I would have the gray like a dress jacket more more or less and I put a cap on my head and I
• 19:30 - 20:00 had to walk away carrying a briefcase how did you exit the plaza when I exited the plaza I walked to the edge of the stock gate fence I did not walk down the steps I walked back over across the grass to the Dead End Street that ends there by the parking lot and I proceeded to uh believe that's Houston cross Houston one of the DTE parking lot and when I got into the car Mr nicoletti was already in the car and so was Johnny roselli I got in the car and drove
• 20:00 - 20:30 away what happened to the shell casing that you fired at John Kennedy the shell casing that I fired at John Kennedy when I took it out of the weapon it's one of those moments when you feel like you're above everything else and I guess I was a little bit cocky with it all I took the casing I put it in my mouth while I put another casing cartridge into that one before putting it into the case and as I started the leave I took the casing and I B down on the casing the leave teeth marks on it and then I set the casing is a symbol
• 20:30 - 21:00 right on top of the stock eight fence which I know I should have never done but I did that and over the years through other people I have left certain trademarks along the way but the case thing was my had teeth marks on and no one knew his teeth marks here until recently in 1994 and they just had that examined to find out that it was teeth marks on there but I left that more or less as a signature of my calling card your trade you might say my trade
• 21:00 - 21:30 how did John roselli and Charles nicoletti get into the dtic building that I could not say but I would believe they went through the front door and we had a side door that they would be exiting from and I had parked this this burgundy colored cholet there the 63 that I was driving i' parked that into the lot there but when they entered the dtech building I was not there I was beond site back into the railroad yard at that point are you sure they were in that delex building I'm positive cuz I had the car par there they were going to come out through the door and put their weap well Johnny
• 21:30 - 22:00 roselli had no weapon Charles netti was the one that carried the rifle in there and that had been secured and he put that back into the trunk of the vehicle and I knew that wasn't the trunk because it was still there when I got the mot to took it out cuz that was the plan was for him to come back put his in the trunk I would have the briefcase I would sliding under the steering wheel Johnny roselli was sitting in the back seat Charles nicketti was sitting in the right front passenger seat I opened the door the shet got in and drove out as I come out of the parking lot I made
• 22:00 - 22:30 a rightand turn onto Houston Street where did you go with after that after that I went I don't remember just how many blocks I preceded ahead but I oh maybe five six blocks ahead to a major Street I took a left went up a few more blocks by the expressway where there's an intersection there and underpass they had a gas station there they had another car waiting there for them they got out of that out of the vehicle I was in they walked across the parking lot I never saw which way they went I turned from there made a right
• 22:30 - 23:00 and I headed back out the mosquite and I went back to the hotel pulled into the parking lot parked my vehicle there secured it went to the room that I already had run it that I've been in all week at that point I went in for clean to strip myself to shower I used the hot wax to remove any reten from the skin pores and when I finished with the details I had to do there I waited until it was dusk dark time then I went out I removed all the gun cases that had been put back into the car brought everything
• 23:00 - 23:30 into the unit cleaned those secured everything and later after midnight when there was no activity I went back out I had pulled the back seat in the car and I put the weapons back in behind the seat where they were belong where we had a compartment for them I went back in went to sleep waited till daylight and then I drove from there back to uh southern part of Illinois old 66 there and stayed overnight there then drove the rest of the way the next day into Chicago cuz I been instru in the beginning when I went to Texas not to be driving in nighttime
• 23:30 - 24:00 not to be pulled over by any police officers not the speed and only travel during daylight hours so there'd be no questions asked and I had always been good at following orders and I use the same procedure going home just just stop for a second for these people here in the beginning I couldn't get nothing done they were
• 24:00 - 24:30 all down on me cuz a cop got shot and my guitar was [Music] okay R how much money were you paid for your participation on November 22nd 1963 well the money that I received for that job in Dallas I'd never asked for a specified amount I'd never even asked for any money I was just downed to do with Mr nicoletti but I had re received $30,000 a short period thereafter I
• 24:30 - 25:00 remember there was two 3 weeks went by maybe a month even before I met him one evening he gave me an envelope and I asked him I said what's this for and he said this is for down in Texas he said you did excellent the only thing he did he criticized me once he asked me he says when I left the plaza that day and got in the car with him he says don't you think you overreacted and I says what do you mean he says maybe you shot too fast because I know they didn't want a shot coming in the front they tried to put everything from the back side I'm pretty and I told him at that point I
• 25:00 - 25:30 said what's my last chance for the option I said if I didn't fire at that point I couldn't fire without endangering Jackie Jimmy and Joe West notes and in Don Irving's interview notes with you and in what you told me before you told me you receive 15,000 15,000 you just said 30 I just said 30 how much did you receive all total it was 30 I didn't want to say I'm telling you the truth I got 30,000 in the first first part I cut it in half in the
• 25:30 - 26:00 beginning of 15 because it was an awful lot of money back then and I didn't really think it' matter that much and I didn't really plan to tell what money I'd got to I didn't until I talk to Joe on that but the total figure was 30 okay I just want to clarify that clarify everything now we've been playing the only difference you've ever told me right there well in the beginning I said 15 because I didn't think it mattered that much what the amount was but since we've been playing Square ball with everything else and I've given you everything that I have I'm not going to go back on that part
• 26:00 - 26:30 I'm just going to give you the actual figure and that's what it was and I never received no more no less the next money I received after that was for something else that we had done but like I say as far as I know that's what the money I received was for dollas when they gave me that envelope because I never took checks he gave me cash and I usually got money every other week from him just for local work around town when did you first meet Lee Harvey osmo excuse me I first met Lee Harvey Oso
• 26:30 - 27:00 and uh God it's back in early 63 we were running weapons down to I believe it was 63 we were running guns down there when I first met him and I met him through David Atley Phillips and Lee Harvey OS and I had never been friends at that point or anything we became more friends that we can Dallas together but I had met him down there in New Orleans and outside of New Orleans in a little town I believe it was called Clinton down there they had been taking down some semi-automatic uh uh 45 caliber per guns
• 27:00 - 27:30 they were made I Believe by Knoxville arms at that time am I to understand that Lee Harvey Oswald was working for the CIA Lee Harvey Oswald had the same control same controller that I had David Aly Phillips because David Aly Phillips introduced me to him and so that means that you have worked for the C also I had involvement with the CIA yes can you talk about any of that I don't wish to touch it face with the CIA and I think some of the
• 27:30 - 28:00 people that you have dealt with you recently found confirming uh proof of what I have told you through their knowledge and what they found out about the CIA but I don't want to touch base or get back into the say operations because it doesn't retain to a lot of this other stuff did the CIA have anything to do with what happened in Dallas in ' 63 excuse me the ca someone and government organizations had a heavy hand any because they supplied Secret Service
• 28:00 - 28:30 identification for different people I don't know who used it but I saw the identification that day and that morning of the assassination but David Ali Phillips had given me the Remington Fireball at that time back then but not specifically for Kennedy he had given me that weapon and it had been used prior to the assassination of John F Kennedy when we had did some other work and I had used it I believe it was the third time for Kennedy would have been the third one was it used a few
• 28:30 - 29:00 times since then but at that point I know a lot of people that see knew that Kennedy was going to be assassinated but whether they had planned it or ordered it or not I have no idea who ordered his assassination when you were in D Plaza did you see any other people there that you recognized that may have been involved with the mob or either with the CIA yes I did I saw Frank Sturges and at one point I'm going to say he was
• 29:00 - 29:30 probably no more than 40 50 ft away and again later when I looked at him when I was brother from the yard I was about 40 yards from him maybe 35 yards away and I scan the Scout I saw him he was still there at the time of the assassination and uh I was looking at him through a three Power Scope also I scan the crowd to see if he was still there and he was there anyone else that you recognized you told me at one time it looked like old home week excuse me could we that
• 29:30 - 30:00 sure did you see anybody else there you recognize yes he had uh Eugene Braden he was there James Bren some people referred to him as but I know him as Eugene braen why was he there that I have no idea I never talked to the man there never discussed anything with the man but I know that he had been there with Johnny roselli and with Charles nicketti because he was at the uh Dallas Cabana that morning and he would been out for front talking to John roselli when I pulled up in the
• 30:00 - 30:30 Chevrolet why was Sturgis there I have no idea I never discussed anything with Sturgis but I knew him very well and I know it was him did you ever see Sturgis with nickleo roselli or was he involved in planning in any way or anything as far as I know Frank sturis had no involvement in the planning and I had never saw him speak with Mr nicoletti or Johnny roselli that morning although stur just didn't know John roselli but they wasn't together that morning to my
• 30:30 - 31:00 knowledge did you know Lee Harvey oswal was on that sixth floor Jimmy no I did not know he was on the sixth floor you got to say it I did not know Lee Harve I did not know that Lee Harvey o was on the sixth floor of The Book Depository that morning I wasn't even sure he was in the building or anywhere around because I had not seen Lee Harvey osell that day did nicoletti or roselli ever tell you that oswal was part of quote unquote
• 31:00 - 31:30 the hit uh Chuck told me that Lee Harvey Oswell was going to show me around the area down there and that's why he had got a that someone had got a hold of Lee Harvey oswal and told him where I was at at the mosqu hotel over there in mosqu and he had showed up there the second day I was in town but like I say Lee Harvey OS and I never discussed anything about the assassination even would though I assume we both knew what was happening but we never discussed it
• 31:30 - 32:00 uh is there anything you can tell me about the death of Officer JD tippet I do not wish to touch base on that I have no comment on that do you know who killed him yes I do is the Man still alive the man that killed TJ Tibet is still alive he was alive as a three years ago I haven't talked to him in the past three years but Lee Harvey Oswell did not kill TJ Tibet because the man that killed the police
• 32:00 - 32:30 officer that afternoon had come by my hotel and told me he said things got messed up today he said and I killed a cop and my remarks to that was well you did what you had to do and he left shortly thereafter so then there was one other person that was part of the team other than you and N the person I'm referring to now was not a part of the team to assassinate John F Kennedy this as far as I know his job would have been to kill Lee Harvey Oswell from what I
• 32:30 - 33:00 understood without asking any direct questions because I did not want to know what anyone else was doing all I wanted to know was what my assignment was what I was to do and the least I know about other people the better off I am cuz I didn't want very many people knowing who I was or what I'm doing would you have known who would have given him orders to kill officer ti no I would not because that contract would have come from a different Source did you see Jack Ruby in that Plaza that day yes Jack Ruby was in the plaza that day where was he at one point he was standing on the same
• 33:00 - 33:30 side with his back to me from the grassy no down close to the sidewalk but I didn't watch other people in the plaza day I scan the crowd I just seen a few faces but I was slly concentrated for the few moments that I had the weapon out looking through the scope I was concentrating on the primary target and when that was over with I wasn't looking behind me to see who was coming or who was running and I remember when the shots had been fired was all over nobody nobody responded immediately
• 33:30 - 34:00 I don't care how fast to say the police acted people were stopped they were stunned including the police officers and the police officer on the motorcycles they took them I'm going to say maybe 10 seconds before they even responded to what was happening it's like everybody was waiting for someone to tell them what to do and at that point I started to walk away there had been a couple of people in the vicinity that I was in I'm will to say probably 15 yard in front of me close to the edge of the fence where I was at and I was about 15 ft from the end of it uh as I
• 34:00 - 34:30 was walking away the police were running up the grass you know and other people and I know these two men were turning people back who they were I don't know I didn't bother to turn and look back I kept walking away did you notice a man dressed in a suit and tie uh and I believe he had a hat on with a camera up on the prola no I did not notice him I'm talking about Abraham as a Pruder yeah I did not notice him I was still walking but if I would have seen someone making my picture at that point
• 34:30 - 35:00 I don't understand what my reaction would have been I know after I put the fireball away I know I had a CO 45 inside my pocket on the left side of me my briefcase was in my right hand and I was prepared to shoot my way out there it came down to that there was a picture made of you behind the fence it was taken by Mary Mormon from across the street you probably couldn't see her does that surprise you yes it surprised me cuz I really figured everyone would had camer would have been pointed at the motorcade because when I pull my weapon
• 35:00 - 35:30 from the briefcase at that point there's nobody standing down there looking at me or looking up at the null everybody is waiting for the motorcade to make the turn to come down through there and everyone's exciting and the Uproar and the people murmuring the noise is louder at this point and like I say there's no one looking behind them even the security and the police officers they situated through the crowd there's nobody looking at areas there's nobody looking at rooftops there's nobody looking at windows that I could see everybody is concentrating strictly on the motor cave I have a picture of you standing
• 35:30 - 36:00 behind the fence will you autograph it for me someday someday okay but not now I understand I had to ask you that okay what type of shell was in that fireball that you fire could you tell me about the Fireball the fireball was uh designed basically in early 61 manufactured and produced a few production models came out in ' 61 and ' 62 but the barrel was too thin and they kept exploding on us and finally they got the barrel redon reboard that
• 36:00 - 36:30 heavier the material and from originally it went from a 221 to a 222 caliber which is nothing but a 22 shell over exaggerated and expanded for higher velocity but uh what it fir was a 221 and it's called the XP 2100 Remington Fireball but it took a 222 casing and it's a single shot bow action pistol scope mounted on it and it was a pistol that was actually way ahead of his
• 36:30 - 37:00 time if just to see one I don't know if they're going to show you a picture of one or not but it is a very beautiful handgun and one of the most elite pistols I believe ever manufactured although lot of your people like 44 Magnums and everything else in 3 57s at this point I prefer a smaller caliber for something like that because of 100 yards a gun is very effective cuz most people take a pistol to be only good for 30 40 ft and something that you would use in a room but a Remington Fireball is more of a modified cut down rifle it shoots a regular shell or 222
• 37:00 - 37:30 it's 222 it's a lot longer than your average 222 or excuse me it's a lot longer than your average 22 round that You' put into a 22 rifle and it's a special casing and you could not fire this to a 22 rifle 22 or 22 caliber but now correct me if I'm wrong the Rivington Fireball XP 100 will fire both 221s and 222 yes they will it takes some sort of modification though to fire 222 what exactly does it take the barrel had to be
• 37:30 - 38:00 reinforced if you didn't have the barrel reinforced the barrel would could possibly blow up in your face did you shoot a regular shell in it or was it some sort of loaded or modified shell or I shot a 222 with a Mercury load on it we used the Mercury load the 222 was designed to fragment tap but what a lot of people didn't realize at that time cuz the gun was still in ear reduction M and didn't go on sell to the public until 1963 but the 222 had a habit it would Ricochet if it didn't get a direct hit
• 38:00 - 38:30 and we couldn't afford with something to Ricochet so that was why I friend of mine had made special rounds for me at that time and I had taken six rounds with me down there and wherever you hit at if you got any type of bone structure the round would fragmentated and explode and the round would be traveling at approximately about 3,100 ft per second which meant you would get penetration then explosion without the Mercury loading I did not get a hit there's a strong possibility that would Ricochet and I
• 38:30 - 39:00 would not have time to reload and fire a second shot who gave you the orders to shoot JF Kennedy Charles nicoletti that morning at 10:30 and we didn't know if I was going to shoot them or not I was only in there his backup in case something went wrong or they missed do you know where Mr nicketti got his orders he got his daughters from Sam G and con would you have any idea what Mr Jen Connor got his orders or if he even got
• 39:00 - 39:30 an order I would have no knowledge of that whatsoever would Tony Ardo have been involved if Sam Jin Conor handed something out I would say yes that Mr Tony and Carter had to be involved would any of the other families would have been involved or do you have any way of knowing I have no way of knowing but I don't believe this is something that Mr Jean conell would engineer on his own so word had to come from somebody who approached those people I have no knowledge I could only go back the point of Mr nicoletti Johnny roselli and
• 39:30 - 40:00 myself at that point and Lee Harvey o on his part showing me around the area uh letting me know the M the ma major roads there and where I could go out and test for a weapon has anybody paid you any money for this interview J nobody has paid me any money for this interview and I have asked for nothing why are you telling all of this why are you coming forth with this after 30 years and the beginning with this Mr Joe West he got a lead on me and came to me
• 40:00 - 40:30 wrote me first he wrote me a letter I had denied any knowledge of it told him he had me mistaken with someone else and they had been calling the institution the counselor came one day while I was on visit and uh wanted me to call somebody on the phone I told him I'm here 365 days a year don't bother me while I am on my visit they can talk to me some other time or you can talk to me anytime you want to because I'm locked up here and the following day they come got me
• 40:30 - 41:00 out of my cell and said they wanted me to call Mr West and at that point I called Mr West and I told him at that time I said Mr West you have approximately 3 minutes to convince me why I should even talk to you that's exactly what you said and those are my exact words I heard the tape and Mr West started talking to me on the phone and he started touching personal points and the phone calls in the prison are all recorded and I sto him I said well stop I said Mr West if you wish to see me or talk to me come see me I don't want to
• 41:00 - 41:30 talk on the phone no more Mr West immediately therefore came to visit me the first day him and I sit and we talked basically about weather Sports about a lot of other things because I had refused to discuss the Kennedy assassination with him he came back the second day I felt more comfortable with him and he explained to me he was getting the case reopened and he was taking it back to trial that he wanted JFK's body exsomed he had the petition for resuming the body and and he wanted to have me subpoenaed to testify in
• 41:30 - 42:00 court if he could get the trial or get the case reopened and excuse me good break about to die yeah okay at this point I told him I said if he could get me immunity I said I can't talk about it for the simple reason I'll be facing criminal charges and he told me that he had an excellent attorney and what they would do is they would try to proceed to get me immunity so that I
• 42:00 - 42:30 could come forth and talk if I was subpoena and at that point we sit and we talked for a while and I finally I agreed that I would testify and come forward if they got me the immunity things didn't go accordingly as planned and uh I don't know how to say a lot of it but the government went around the proper parties and uh we had they came to visit me and we had a situation that I don't want to touch baseed on at this time and uh my life has already been
• 42:30 - 43:00 threatened over this whole mess and uh I'm giving this tape right now and I don't want to be identified at this time but I'm not coming forward for any patriotic causes but I'm coming forward on it because of Mr Joe West himself who is threatened you Jimmy I have been threatened by both organized crime and by the government can you identify the people of the government you threaten I wouldn't do that because I've never given up anyone in my life and I won't start now if they wish to kill me then I have to accept the faith that comes with it but I will not finger point anyone or
• 43:00 - 43:30 anything like that at this time has the FBI been here to visit you yes the FBI was here to visit me and the FBI has tried to discredit me on a lot of things but people that you have conversed with that has things and I've given you information not to put anybody in prison I've given you information on Special Operations that was carried out by the government that no one could have possibly known about outside the agency itself and I believe that you have collaborated my story on several different aspects do you know anything about the
• 43:30 - 44:00 death of David Ferry yes I do but at this time I do not wish to discuss that yeah what I move that mic over just about six M which way you want to go to the left my breath is getting H move stand if you would like that just stay here more we start talking when we start talking about people dying we're start
• 44:00 - 44:30 talking about murder and we're talking about a crime that has no statute of limitations on it and as long as I have no immunity there's not much that I can say about David fer or a couple of other parties that I have been asked about well it obviously you know who killed David Ferry obviously yes I do know who killed David Ferry he died of a several brain hemorrhage but the several brain hemorrhage was brought on in a specific way and if they was to examine they would find out and I've already stated at one point where the tear and the
• 44:30 - 45:00 tissue be came after the superial brain H reach and I waited for somebody to confirm that I'm working what's your really inner feelings about all this J as a person as a human being as a person as a human being I just want everybody to forget about me put it all behind me I'm sorry anybody ever caught up with me or found out who I was or that what my involvement was why did you open up to Joe West Jo West is the type of
• 45:00 - 45:30 person you have to meet him and talk with him to really understand the man but he's somebody that just somebody that you like and you respect and you're willing to do what you can to help them and I've given Mr West more than I've ever given anyone else in my life and why I don't really understand except he's just that type of person he is a magnetism about him Jo is a great man he was I know I'm short time but the time that I've known him I felt like I knew him all my
• 45:30 - 46:00 life and there was only two other men in my life that I really treasured Valu one was Mr nicoletti and the other man is still alive and I can't use his name but he's in his 80s but he's a wonderful man and I would do anything either one of those men ever asked me to do and when I say anything I mean anything and everything do you have any remarks about what happened in Dallas in November of 63 it's hard to have remorse for something that has been done for so long ago and at that time everyone felt was
• 46:00 - 46:30 right and if I didn't like someone how could I have remorse for someone that I didn't like so you felt personally that Mr Kennedy should have been taken out well I felt that held along but my reasons was uh specifically because of the Bay of Pigs but me and a lot of other Cubans felt that way because we felt betrayed by John Kennedy by John F Kennedy we had Airborne waiting to go in we had battle wagons ready and they got no support whatsoever they got
• 46:30 - 47:00 slaughtered they went to prison they were captured they were killed they were punished tortured that's because Mr Kennedy wouldn't the president wouldn't give his word to go and all he had to do is give the authorization and the Cuban deal was all over with it was ours but he took it promise he had the power to say yes or no and he said no he beat it did you ever do a man Richard HMS yes I did deputy director of the CIA did you
• 47:00 - 47:30 know ever know a man named Alan Dulles I never I knew who he is but I never met him personally did you ever know Antonio viani yes I did I consider him to be a good friend of mine and to my knowledge Antonio Viano was not involved in the assassination of John F Kennedy whether he had knowledge or not I do not know but I know he was heavily involved with the CIA and many other operations certain groups from the old white hand all the way through Alpha
• 47:30 - 48:00 66 to the different groups we had was Mr HS involved Mr hem knew about the organizations but Mr hems gave me no directions direct from that all my directives came from David Atley Phillips because David Aly Phillips was my controller I understand that it's it's a serious question and I know you've already answered it once but I I just want to try to say it again do you have any knowledge at all of the CIA participating in the hit on Kennedy the CIA never once told me that
• 48:00 - 48:30 they were going to kill Kennedy I never heard it from David Atley Phillips or anyone else do you know how Charles nicoletti got to Dallas I do not know how Charles nicketti got there said for flying on commercial airlines Johnny roselli flew and I know specifically on a Matts Airline because he told me on what kind of Airline match military Air Service match's military Air transport service is what it stands for we call it match could you give me a full sentence on that Johnny okay Johnny rosali the
• 48:30 - 49:00 morning we were going to Fort Worth he told me he said he was in Washington I was in Washington yesterday he said I got lucky I said what do you mean lucky he said I caught a match fly it out well for people who don't understand match that's military Air transport service was a military fly it and allegedly like I said I don't know who flew the plane Johnny told me he was on but he said he was being flown in by the CIA he said they flew in there and basically that's all I know of and whether they had a flag going there or not I don't know what that was all about I never had knowledge and I never asked people what they're doing or where they've been or
• 49:00 - 49:30 any questions I've always lived my life believing a silence I ple and not knowing what the other man is doing if you're doing something wrong don't come tell me what you're doing because I don't want to know in case you have a problem later and I live that way here in prison I have prisoners come up and tell me we've got this coming and we got that I told them man I don't fo I don't want to know part of it I don't want to know what you're doing don't tell me cuz if you get snitched off I don't want you thinking it's me I recall that you mentioned U you want
• 49:30 - 50:00 to take a pause and mix some water a second okay I'm going to ask you about that package and I'm going you let the H any time you're ready uh tell me in your own words about the package that Mr Nicolle gave you after this after many many years several years we started having a small problem things were arising and we had the uh Senate intelligence committee was calling people back the war commission everybody
• 50:00 - 50:30 had been involved in a lot of things and we're getting a lot of static and to this point I'd kept myself totally obsolete local out of the Highlight the spotlight the only two people that knew I was in De Plaza that day for sure was Johnny roselli and Charles nicoletti why do you think that is well we never went around telling people what we done if we went out and we did something or we popped somebody or made a hit on them whatever you caller uh we didn't go sit around the tavern and brag about it we didn't go down the local restaurant and
• 50:30 - 51:00 talk about what we' done far as as as Sam G and Conor knew jles ncet was the man who did the shoot that's all he knew he knew that he was there and whether he knew Johnny roselli was there or not I don't know but I would say yes you knew Johnny rosali was there start that sentence with the only thing Sam G and Conor knew as far as I know the only thing that Sam G and Conan knew for Plaza that day was uh the part Charles nicoletti and Johnny roselli because Sam Gan Conor had never
• 51:00 - 51:30 discussed it with me only Charles nicoletti and Johnny rosali and I admit to that point because we kept a very tight Circle and we always thought the less people know the better off we are the safer we are and as the years went by Sam got killed I believe in uh June of 1975 Sam Jan con he was killed at his home in 75 charal nicoletti excuse me Johnny relli was next he was killed I believe I don't remember the exact date but I know it was September I believe of uh
• 51:30 - 52:00 76 and Charles nicoletti I remember that date because him and I were very very close and he wasn't supposed to go out that night unless I was with him but he was killed at a restaurant in the west suburbs of Chicago at a place called The Golden horns and he was executed there that night and that was on March 29th of 1977 do you know anything about what happened to those three who might have done a in well on who killed those men and I do not know who the actual man was
• 52:00 - 52:30 that killed Jenny roselli or Charles nicoletti but the night that Sam Jan Conor was killed I know that Johnny roselli was in town that night and I know that him and Sam Gan Conor was very close and I figured he was probably the only one that could get into his house that time in the morning that Sam would let him in but to say he specifically killed him I can't say that because I don't really know CU it was never admitted to me but I know Sam left and or excuse me Johnny left and went back to Miami but anyway after Sam was dead Johnny was dead I didn't know kill Charles
• 52:30 - 53:00 nicoletti and if I had have known I would have went after them myself so that knowledge never became known to me but right before Chuck was killed we knew that there was a problem and I'd been riding constantly with him and staying in his companionship more or less as his bodyguard watching on anyone that we went to meet and I would usually carry 245s with me and I keep a windbreaker across my lap with each gun laying my lap with the hand on each one and we' been very very careful and approximately 2 weeks before his death
• 53:00 - 53:30 he had given me a package and told me he says put this away is keep he said someday you might need this he said there may be people looking for it he saido not let this fall into the wrong hands well I took the package and I put it and wrapped it into cheesecloth and put some plastic around it and put a little metal box and i' went out and I buried it put it where no one would find it and I'd left it there after his execution and he was killed on March 29th of'
• 53:30 - 54:00 77 I'm going to estimate it's probably between week and a half to 2 and 1/2 weeks right thereafter I don't know the exact date that I was leaving one of our local clubs where we had card games going and making book and everything and it all shortly past midnight I guess 1:00 in the morning as I walked out as was abducted and I was gassed and thrown into a vehicle and taken away and I'd been interrogated for roughly I don't know maybe day day and a half whatever it was 2 days even I'm not even sure how long they had me at that point because when I come out of it I was in pretty
• 54:00 - 54:30 bad shape but I had went through a very rough interrogation and I knew it wasn't the outfit that did it because there was any doubt there they would have killed me so I figured it had to be a government agency they had picked me up and they wanted the notes and the books and the Diary of Charles Nicolle and I never gave it to them and I was thrown from a car left strip my legs and hands still bound behind me I was picked up at one of the Suburban towns of just west of
• 54:30 - 55:00 Chicago and the police recovered me took me in and then that family been notified and they wanted to take me to the hospital and I didn't want to go to the hospital and I went home and I had my right-hand man come over at that point and stay like at the house with me cuz I couldn't even get up and walk to the bathroom he had to pick me up and carry me anywhere I went that's how badly bad shape I was in and at this point my wife had already thought that I was dead so I had everybody else in town when I had been picked up and carried away that way and as soon as I was able I got up and made sure I wasn't being followed or
• 55:00 - 55:30 watched by anyone I went and I dug the package up the package that was there there was identification for Secret Service in that package there was his personal diary that he had made a lot of notes on things that people that had been killed over the years and there was also the map that Johnny roselli and I had received that morning in Fort Worth and the man that was supposed to be Jack Ruby when we had met over there and he had gotten that package that map was there and I destroyed that at that time because I knew then that somebody was really eff in wanting
• 55:30 - 56:00 it but you kept nicolet's diary yes I still got [Music] them can you tell me anything about its contents at this no I won't get into that because we're getting about an organized crime and I will not do anything to hurt anybody anywhere in that Branch this way the only thing I'm seeing here is Charles nicoletti is now dead so it's Johnny rosali and Sam G and con I can cause them no harm but I will never ever put a man in
• 56:00 - 56:30 prison I would not give anyone up right now for my own freedom and that's how I stand and that is how I will live by it and I will die by that [Music] standard Jimmy you lived around death and crime all your life how do you feel about death how do I feel about death to me it's just another new adventure don't get me wrong I'm in no hurry to die when the time comes though I will accept it and I've looked at death several times in my
• 56:30 - 57:00 life I have had people from the outfit the police officers put guns to my head and threaten to kill me and I've looked them in the eye told them shoot and a couple of them I told them they didn't have the balls to shoot and a couple of local cops they come to my home one night and surrounded my house took me out after working me over severely in the front yard took me down to the railway tracks before they took me to the Station House took me to the rail tracks backs driv me out of the squad car handcuffed to put a gun on my head and told me you piece of we're not taking you and we're
• 57:00 - 57:30 going to kill you and I told him you ain't got the balls to do it obviously they did and they didn't they took me on in my wife was waiting at the precin station the loggers were there and I was released approximately 45 minutes later Jimmy is there anything else that you want to say from your heart about what has occurred in your life and particularly about rer of 63 anything you want to add or you want to say personal no I've lived a good life did a
• 57:30 - 58:00 lot of things more than probably any hund men has I've lived my life and I can't look back and say well I would change this or I would change that because I wouldn't when people see this interview on television what do you think people will think most of them I don't think they'll believe me how do we know it's true there's no way to really prove it except like I say some of people you
• 58:00 - 58:30 have corroborated a lot of the things that I have told you you've had people cooperated and everything I've told you so far it's been there it could be backed up and checked in the files from the CIA to the FBI and I want to clarify one thing I've given you nothing on organized crime on anything they've ever done and I will never do that and I am not a member of organized crank I have never been a member but I've had a lot of Close Associates with organized
• 58:30 - 59:00 crime where were you born excuse me cut just let it roll okay I was born January 1942 Alabama you're a southern Boy southern boy but I was taken from there at a very early age and I grew up as a child on the streets of Chicago and I love Chicago I grew up in in all Italian Community when we first moved in I was the only kid on the Block
• 59:00 - 59:30 that couldn't speak Italian everybody spoke Italian hardly anybody spoke English but I ran with them we finally started communicating and I would live in their homes with them eating stuff that I had never even seen or heard of and they would come to my house and eat things that they had never heard of such things as blackeyed peas cornbread biscuits redey gravy and things like that you know mean I love the pizza and I love the pasta the meatballs and everything I thought it was great so it was something that we shared and we all got along good in the beginning we didn't get along but after
• 59:30 - 60:00 they beat me up a few times and found out that I couldn't be discouraged and I kept running back to them we finally got to all be good friends and we grew up together and as a child as a kid I don't think I probably more than 10 or 11 years old I remember on Saturday mornings i''d be sitting out in front of the deli and one of the old time gangsters used to come along gon great man come up in this big old black Cadillac and me and my little Italian Friend we'd be out there with be shining the hub caps on his car and wiping it down with her big towels and then he'd come out he usually
• 60:00 - 60:30 throw us a $5 bill and back then that was a lot of money and we thought we was really somebody just because we knew those people and as we grew up and we started getting into more trouble our own self is that how you more or less got involved in working with them that's how more or less people knew that when I got caught I didn't tell them nobody and I had a good name for being stand up around time even early as a kid growing up as a teenager while driving fast cars riding motorcycles I had my first car I think I
• 60:30 - 61:00 was just turning 14 did Charles nicoletti know your background in Warfare and in shooting and yes he did say it by starting with Charles Charles NTI knew on my background he watched me around town his time passed by running around my cars and stuff he know I'd been into the service he know I was familiar with weapons and I came back from La I did 90 days in the hospital being evaluated and the day I walked out of
• 61:00 - 61:30 there I was recruited by David Atley Phillips showed up that day as I walked out of the hospital and my first assignment with the agency was after I had been shooting in LA and made my mark there they thought that I could be of use to the agency at that point and I was training some Cubans at that time that's when I first got involved at chanos Bay the Bay of Pigs and after all that blew up and went down and everybody got their face dirty and the see G got dirty in the Bay of Pigs and things I was home for a while and uh I started racing stock
• 61:30 - 62:00 cars and Mr nicoletti took a shant to me he'd watch me race cars and you know I was up and coming knew my involving weapons but he wasn't concerned about my weapons in the beginning he was only concerned about my driving ability and I admired him and to me He Walked on Water I got to tell you I love the man he was one of the two greatest men I ever knew what kind of guy was he he was very well spoken well-mannered quiet he didn't swear there was no profanity in the man I probably only heard him swear maybe twice in my whole life and that was at the
• 62:00 - 62:30 FBI they had us under surveillance at a couple different times and uh he was very he was very quiet but he was also very deadly it's like a rattlesnake you might save without the Rattlers and you never knew when he was going to strike what kind of guy was roselli roselli was uh he was flashy did a lot of talking he talked too much they used to bother me but he was one of those guys he like the flash he flashed the money he dressed nice Mr nicoletti dressed nice also but Mr nicoletti did
• 62:30 - 63:00 not flash in the same style that Johnny roselli did there much difference just night and day Johnny was loud bous with everything what kind of guy was Sam J con Sam Gan Conor was a wonderful lovable old man there was quiet anybody's grandfather I mean he was great but boy if you got him riled up it's like with a little interior Bulldogs getting a hold of you he could just tear you up he was good I respected him a lot and everything else but I didn't uh Sam Gana I didn't
• 63:00 - 63:30 work for him he never gave me no orders never told me to do anything the only ones I took orders from was from two people one was Charles nicoletti and like a see the other man is still alive and I want to identify him what kind of guy was David Atley Phillips David Aly Phillips was a cool character uh very good natured uh I guess I put him through a lot of Paces because I couldn't understand his way of thinking in the beginning but he used to tell me at that time that he could kill more people with a typewriter than I could killed with a machine gun running around trying to
• 63:30 - 64:00 shoot everybody in the world and I couldn't believe that I couldn't understand it and as time went by and me knowing David Phillips and starting to listen after he grabbed me shook me around a couple times he got me to pay attention to what he was saying and I got to thinking I realized the man was right that there's more to things than running around with a Gun there's your psychological warfare and what you can do with a piece of paper writing a newspaper article and confusing people in different countries and even here I mean it's just uh people believe what they read more or less basically becomes out
• 64:00 - 64:30 in the newspaper and now that they hear it on TV they really get into it what kind of guy was Lee Harvey Oswell Lee Harvey Oswell Everybody Plays him up to be a nut job and everything else but the man was very intelligent had a very high IQ he was very quiet sub centered Lee Harvey Oswell was not a boaster he was not a party man he didn't run around drinking or cavar or none of those things Lee Harvey Oswell led a very close and self- secluded
• 64:30 - 65:00 life and uh for people a lot of times what they say they've said about him is totally untrue what do you think his part was in that Plaza that day Jimmy I think his plot was to uh plant evidence to mislead everybody and I don't believe that Lee Harvey ell had any inkling that his life was in danger whatsoever how many shots you think he fired Lee Harvey osel never [Applause] shot somebody had to fire from that
• 65:00 - 65:30 sixth floor according to the trajectory was there anybody else up there with him or do you know as far as I know there's nobody up there I did not even know Lee Harvey Oswell was up there and now when you're standing in a place like that it's hard to tell where the noise is coming from you've got Echoes you've got all these people excuse me your sound is being muffled uh but at this point I don't even know Lee Harvey Oswell is in the Texas and Book Depository building there I have no even knowledge of that at that point the last time I saw him was the day before how do you know he didn't fire a
• 65:30 - 66:00 shot I just don't believe he would Lee Harvey Oswell as much as they proclaimed him to be an assassin a killer I don't believe he was even in the Marine Corps he had a small scarf above his lifted he got hit with a rifle stock he took a small Scar and there but uh lee har a wasn't the type of person to run around and kill anybody did you ever notice if he was left-handed or right-handed I never paid that much attention to it he never fired a weapon around me
• 66:00 - 66:30 and we never sit down we never wrote any letters together when he drove they say he couldn't drive but Lee Harvey Oswell could drive he didn't have a driver's license maybe but the man could drive how he drove military trucks even and let's face it anybody working anybody that has been working at a one of the uh America's spy base especially like in Japan like where he was at there's no way this country is going to
• 66:30 - 67:00 give them a visa to go anywhere even near Russia and they photograph every man going in and out of the embassies in Mexico all your embassies are watched we watch them they watch us back then yesterday even today they've never stopped watching each other nobody runs into uh other Embassy without being spotted right away they're under constant surveillance and if you've had a top Seer security clearance like Lee Harvey Oswell did you just don't jump on a plane and flight off foreign country especially to come this country unless somebody's engineered and set it up for you to go to give this
• 67:00 - 67:30 information my Lee Harvey also went to Russia I'll never know and personally I never asked him when I knew him I had they used to have an old say in curiosity killed the cat all my life I've never been curious I've never asked people who they're dealing with or what they've done what do you feel about your place in history I don't even want to be remembered in history why for what I'm nobody who am I
• 67:30 - 68:00 I'm nobody special I did a lot of work the man who killed John F kenned not necessarily I hit him in the front he was shot in the back also I was just one of the two men but other figures have been killed other political people in other countries have been killed we've had gangsters killed in this country I never chose the people to be killed somebody else elected John F Kenn to be killed whether it was a politician to be
• 68:00 - 68:30 killed or whether it was a mob figure to be killed I never chose the figures somebody else said they was wrong said they did wrong just followed the orders to me was like taking out the garbage that's a good line did you think or have you ever thought about the fact that if you hadn't fired that shot that Oswald may still be alive are tipic or does it matter to you that doesn't matter to me but I as far as
• 68:30 - 69:00 that goes if I hadn't fired the shot Kennedy would have been killed anyway because the last shot from nicoletti caught him in the basically the left side the scull in the back to push the head forward so basically speaking he would have been killed either way but I had waited till the last point for fills of fire for me before jacn Kennedy would become in the line of fire if I don't take it at this point point I'm losing my last chance for Fu a fire then I don't fire at all and then if nicoletti hadn't fired and
• 69:00 - 69:30 neither one of us fired he might have Liv then the job wouldn't have been done can you show me exactly using your finger where your shot hit President Kennedy on whose face on yours just say my shot you know well looking at the man would be to his left side for me but if you're sitting in his position then it would be on his right side and it would have came in through on his head the would have came in here and exited out the
• 69:30 - 70:00 backside and I would have measure at that point that 60% of the skull in the back of his head had left upon the impact how can you mention that well if you shot several people in the head and I was known for head shots not just down that but I'm talking about prior to that and in the service on things that I had done after a while you get to know the back of a scholar going to approximately how much he missing Jimmy and all your years in the
• 70:00 - 70:30 service and all the the activities you've been involved in my military service wasn't entirely that long but my involvement with government agencies became overextended after a while in all of you years in organized crime in participating in in around death murder Guns Etc do you have any idea of how many people you've killed yes but I will not say
• 70:30 - 71:00 that has no bearing on it the only party here that we're discussing about death basically at this point is John F Kennedy the other people there has no bearing on this case and I don't even wish to discuss that I'm sorry I ask you but I just looking for some human interest stuff I know but like I say I don't even want to quote that figure didn't mean I only have one person to judge me and that's one I die you believe in God you well for this believe or not I don't know I guess I do in a way cuz every time I've been in trouble A lot of times I've looked down I said oh God help me to get out of this or
• 71:00 - 71:30 help me to get this done so basically I've caught myself praying to God probably on several occasions when I needed him but like I say I believe there's more to life than just here I'm not saying I believe in heaven and hell I'm just saying I believe there's another level of playing for us so we're going to all have to service on Sunday you told me one time on the phone that the two greatest lies in the world were religion and history yep you want to elaborate on that a second well
• 71:30 - 72:00 history has been changed to formicate to the way of the people of uh how do you put it if you look back and you investigate a lot of our history you're going to find out a lot of our great causes was instigated by S itself and we covered it up and made it look like we were being infringed upon by our rights on humanitarian purposes and freedom and democracy and so when you wave that banner and all my life I believed in mother rala in the American way of life and freedom and democracy but things over the years especially in the early '70s started changing my way of thinking a lot on things because I've seen how
• 72:00 - 72:30 people were being abused and mistreated and being assassinated only because they knew something not because they had their wrong politics or they were trying to Danger this country excuse me and uh religion has killed more people than all the wars we've ever had people die every day in the name of religion they started out that way in the beginning and it's still that way nothing has ever changed CU everybody wants to say one person's religion is better than the other one and the Irish fighting each other
• 72:30 - 73:00 over there the the Muslims to the serbs the co Asians you name it there's always somebody want to kill somebody over their religion over their God and yet they say there's only one God but I don't want to elaborate on the Bible or get that only creates too many other things going and at least one product to another product but I try to stay away from religion I try to stay away from history as much as possible the only interest to me of history is if I was going into another country or if I was going to do something I wanted to
• 73:00 - 73:30 read about them I know about their culture I want to know what their beliefs were and I wasn't interested in the beginning of their time I only want to know about the last 10 15 20 years of how their government had been run and what their politics were that's all I was interested in or what religion was the strongest religion in that country and how I could deal with that situation because I could learn more from knowing that country I could from everybody telling me what everybody thought about it Jimmy if If Today Was it's November 22nd 1963 and you were standing in D Plaza
• 73:30 - 74:00 right now would you kill the president again if I was under orders or if I had been asked to assist I would do just like I always did I would follow orders I never disate an [Music] order all right pause I think we may have it I think we wrap I can't think as far as John F Kennedy goes to president even though he was the president today everybody tells us what
• 74:00 - 74:30 a great man he was but back then and I was there and I was seeing the things that were happening from the Cuban Missile Crisis and everything else nobody really like Kennedy back then that I could find everybody I talked to didn't like him like I say I had my own personal reasons for the Bay of Pigs but yet other people in the military to the Secret Service to the FBI everybody I mean even the people around him even his own staff because he was like I say I won't get in all his
• 74:30 - 75:00 bad habits but Bo I know nobody liked the man but yet today they tell us what a great man he was but that's only history and only because he was President of the United States and nobody likes to admit that we made a mistake did you or any of your friends Nic roselli and one know about Marin Monroe and John Kennedy I don't know if they knew or not I never asked and again it's course there other people involved such as Merin Monroe and all those other stories that people have told uh we sat around and we went somewhere once Mr
• 75:00 - 75:30 nicoletti and I had done something that was history that was yesterday we never talked about it thereafter it was never brought up again but that's how he wanted it and with his training and the his beliefs and like I say I wanted to follow in his footsteps because I believed in this man so much I worshiped this man at that time you talk about God he was my guy back then like I say He Walked on Water did Nicolle work for the mom and
• 75:30 - 76:00 the CIA too on different occasions Mr nicoletti was strictly organized crime as far as the CIA goes Johnny roselli was the lion between the mob and the CIA and nicoletti had talked with him a few times but this is where got nicoletti killed I believe was inom when he started talking with the CIA or the Secret Service or whoever had talked to him and he was being called back because I think they killed him the day before he was to appear at the uh new intelligence hearing committee or whatever it was they had going because
• 76:00 - 76:30 somebody was afraid he was going to talk and it broke my heart afterwards when somebody told me that Mr nicoletti had talked and that he was dirty because I found it hard to believe and I always felt if Mr nicoletti was dirty and if he had been giving people up I felt he would have given the diary up he could have made a deal for his own life and for security and protection and he didn't he died and we knew that he was in great trouble at that time I didn't really understand the
• 76:30 - 77:00 depth of it because I did not believe that the man would give anybody up now I don't know who killed Mr nicoletti I don't know whether the organized crime family did it or I don't know whether the government killed him I have no knowledge of who killed him like I say if I had known believe me I would have been hunting them down and I would have died trying to get the people that got Mr niol so the US government will kill people definitely say it the US government will kill people that's stuff in it there's no problems there are no questions he's not the only one they
• 77:00 - 77:30 killed but like I say if they killed nicoletti I don't know for sure I don't know who killed him but if I did know I would have put an allout effort and there's only one thing in my life I have ever feared and that was failure to complete an operation that I had started on and like I said when I say I love Mr nicoletti not as a man and a woman but I loved him as a prote as a father as a brother or whatever but to me like I said he was my gu he walked on water when you were walking out of De Plaza from behind that fence
• 77:30 - 78:00 did anybody try to stop you or anybody ask you anything or did anybody see your gun did anybody say anything to you as I was leaving de Plaza nobody tried to stop me there was two police officers within probably 20 25 ft of me that had been stopped by somebody posing a Secret Service agents I could hear part of the conversation I did not look back over my shoulder I did not run I didn't stand around I just carried a natural gate and proceeded to
• 78:00 - 78:30 exit that's just like a businessman walking away from lunch R can you think of anything else you want to add brother the three organized crime figures implicated by James E files as co-conspirators in the assassination of President John F Kennedy met with the following Fates on June 19th 1975 Sam Jan Conor
• 78:30 - 79:00 who was to be transported to Washington DC to testify before the Senate select committee on intelligence 5 days later was shot to death in his home in 1976 Johnny roselli gave top secret testimony before the committee shortly afterwards and before he could be called in for a second appearance he was brutally mured murdered in Miami Roselli's murder prompted the formation of the US House select committee on
• 79:00 - 79:30 assassinations in 1977 the committee announced it would call in Charles nicoletti nicoletti was murdered shortly after the committee's announcement on March 29th 1979 the house committee concluded that President Kennedy's death was probably the result of a conspiracy James E files continues to serve the remainder of his 50-year sentence for shooting a policeman in jolet Illinois as of this publication he must serve a remaining 43 years the FBI
• 79:30 - 80:00 has officially dismissed fil's confession as non-credible